#emc | Logs for 2011-02-01

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[00:24:31] <elmo40> Tom_itx: will you tear it apart and engrave a nice font into it? http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/itx/frontled5.JPG
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[00:30:31] <Tom_itx> too much work
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[00:34:37] <Tom_itx> i should turn that one into an emc machine
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[00:59:35] <danimal_garage> are encoders with hals or commutation tracks encoded on the z channel hard to get or expensive?
[00:59:50] <danimal_garage> i found some servo drives nearly the same as mine except for encoders
[00:59:55] <danimal_garage> pretty cheap
[01:00:31] <danimal_garage> so i'd have to mount an encoder
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[01:07:14] <danimal_garage> hmmm
[01:08:01] <danimal_garage> i'm thinking this might be the way to go... it's been nearly impossible to find the right resolver
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[01:19:21] <danimal_garage> are hall effect sensors normally built into the encoder on brushless servos?
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[01:21:40] <atmega> In my limited experience, never.
[01:22:05] <Emcrules_Laptop> usually in the motor
[01:22:07] <atmega> they are in the motor and the wires come out with the motor wires
[01:22:38] <danimal_garage> what if my motor doesnt have that, what are my options?
[01:23:08] <DaViruz> get a driver/amp that doesn't need hall commutation
[01:23:26] <danimal_garage> no way around it?
[01:23:48] <DaViruz> i'm not sure
[01:24:03] <DaViruz> theroretically sure
[01:24:09] <danimal_garage> is said something about commutation tracks on the encoder's z channel
[01:24:36] <danimal_garage> but i'm having trouble finding anything like that, mainly because i dont know what to search for
[01:26:56] <atmega> can you scope the Z and see if anything other than a reference signal is on there?
[01:27:27] <danimal_garage> i dont have an encoder yet
[01:27:43] <danimal_garage> i'm trying to find the stuff
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[01:37:50] <Emcrules_Laptop> danimal: heres a good link on Commutation www.apicontrols.com/newapi/apiftp/APIControls/.../151-servo_phasing.pdf
[01:39:06] <Emcrules_Laptop> Danimal: it specific to API drives but may apply to your situation
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[01:44:28] <danimal_garage> it is an api drive
[01:44:32] <danimal_garage> thanks!
[01:45:03] <danimal_garage> ah, wont open
[01:45:47] <danimal_garage> some of the addy is missing
[01:47:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> one sec
[01:47:40] <Emcrules_Laptop> can i email it to you
[01:48:14] <danimal_garage> thanks
[01:48:59] <Emcrules_Laptop> whats your email?
[01:49:44] <danimal_garage> sales@homebrewedcomponents.com
[01:56:29] <Emcrules_Laptop> just emailed from jpmoniz@pmiautomation.com
[01:57:25] <danimal_garage> thanks a lot!
[01:58:20] <Emcrules_Laptop> no problem hears another good link on commutation
[01:58:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://en.nanotec.com/steppermotor_animation.html
[01:58:50] <Emcrules_Laptop> look under the bldc tab
[01:59:05] <danimal_garage> oh i understand commutation, i just need to find an encoder with commutation feedback
[01:59:08] <danimal_garage> they're pricy
[01:59:28] <danimal_garage> my brushless ac motor has no hall
[02:00:19] <Emcrules_Laptop> Absolute or incremental encoder
[02:01:02] <danimal_garage> what do most servos have, absolute, right?
[02:01:13] <danimal_garage> i'd like ab and z
[02:05:11] <atmega> what does your drive expect?
[02:05:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> depends on what was bought! i would say it could be a 50/50 mix right now. higher end manufactures are starting to supply mainly absolute at the same cost of an incremental. Before incremental was heavily used (AB &Z)
[02:07:11] <danimal_garage> i know it uses ab and z
[02:07:55] <danimal_garage> http://www.kollmorgen.com/website/com/eng/download/document/151_ps_33xx.pdf
[02:08:48] <danimal_garage> i'm looking at the ps3306ie
[02:11:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> Danimal: what type of feed back is on you brushless ac motor
[02:11:38] <danimal_garage> none
[02:11:46] <danimal_garage> i need to buy whatever goes on there
[02:11:59] <danimal_garage> it was resolver but that is dead
[02:12:06] <Emcrules_Laptop> is this the one that the resolver went pooched
[02:12:12] <danimal_garage> yep
[02:13:32] <Emcrules_Laptop> sounds like you need to get an encoder off a pooched old reliance servo motor. I believe the hall tracks were in the encoder. I can go out and check mine if you want
[02:13:49] <danimal_garage> on page 191 of that link i just posted, it says "low to high transition of z channel aligns with positive going zero crossing of motor phase A to neutral back-emf waveform"
[02:14:10] <Emcrules_Laptop> you would have to align the hall tracks just like you had to align the resolver
[02:14:47] <Emcrules_Laptop> then alignment shoud be straight forward
[02:14:48] <danimal_garage> low to high transition..... does that mean rising edge, like it only actually needs an index pulse?
[02:15:15] <Emcrules_Laptop> yes rising edge. Just index no
[02:15:33] <danimal_garage> ah ok, thought i might get off cheap lol
[02:17:16] <Emcrules_Laptop> nope i hace a motor with a hiperface encoder on it if i could do the same i would
[02:17:28] <Emcrules_Laptop> let me check my motor
[02:26:48] <danimal_garage> i found those drives for $70 eac, and they have a bunch. They're basically the same drives as mine, except the encoder version instead of resolver
[02:26:53] <danimal_garage> each*
[02:27:11] <danimal_garage> if i got those, i wouldnt have to mess with a power supply, or much in the way of tuning
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[02:27:48] <danimal_garage> ugh
[02:28:07] <danimal_garage> well for now i'm going to throw a stepper back on the z axis so i can get caught up on work.
[02:28:35] <Emcrules_Laptop> just checked my motor the hall signals are on the encoder
[02:28:59] <danimal_garage> hmm cool, so i need to find those encoders lol
[02:29:15] <Emcrules_Laptop> old reliance electric servos
[02:29:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> plenty of them on ebay. but the ones you just mentioned should work just fine
[02:30:35] <danimal_garage> any reliance?
[02:30:44] <danimal_garage> there's a bunch of different ones on there
[02:31:03] <Emcrules_Laptop> H series
[02:31:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> one sec i will check
[02:32:40] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Reliance-Electric-Servo-Motor-H-3007-N-H00AA-/330513310970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf420e4fa like this one
[02:33:31] <danimal_garage> ouch!
[02:33:51] <Emcrules_Laptop> yah no kidding hs out to lunch on the price
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[02:34:11] <atmega> we have a bunch of identical drives, some labeled reliance, some labeled electro craft
[02:35:23] <danimal_garage> i'll make a few calls tomorrow
[02:35:44] <danimal_garage> i got a guy near me that parts out machines
[02:35:54] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://www.epn-online.com/page/37366/6-channel-commutation-encoder.html
[02:36:09] <danimal_garage> i picked up a fanuc pendant and encoder off of him for cheap today
[02:37:04] <danimal_garage> yea i saw that in my searches
[02:37:09] <danimal_garage> they're out there
[02:37:17] <danimal_garage> i just have to get pricing
[02:37:44] <danimal_garage> i'm not spending $200+ on one, i'll just buy a different drive instead
[02:38:07] <Emcrules_Laptop> nice. just make sure whatever you pickup that the commutation tracks match what your motor needs. I can talk to a buddy of mine tommorow he has a lead on low cost resolvers
[02:39:32] <danimal_garage> that'd be cool, thanks
[02:39:40] <Emcrules_Laptop> no problem
[02:39:58] <danimal_garage> i'm putting the stepper back on right now
[02:40:24] <danimal_garage> i ran it for 2 years like that, i guess a little while longer wont hurt
[02:40:50] <danimal_garage> i'll just have to reconfigure my config files for 2 servos and a stepper
[02:42:53] <Emcrules_Laptop> how are the servos working anyways? I thought they would be undersized a bit.
[02:43:23] <danimal_garage> pretty good
[02:43:30] <danimal_garage> havent cut anything though
[02:43:51] <Emcrules_Laptop> Well hope it all works well for you!!!
[02:44:24] <danimal_garage> thanks man!
[02:44:53] <Emcrules_Laptop> If you find some encoders with commutation tracks on them let me know. I could use about two or three of them!!
[02:45:26] <danimal_garage> no prob!
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[03:37:27] <Valen> danimal_garage: could you graft some hall sensors onto it?
[03:38:18] <Valen> or perhaps one of these? http://www.austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Rotary-Encoders
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[03:41:12] <danimal_garage> i *may* have fixed the old resolver.
[03:41:20] <danimal_garage> i'm putting it back together now
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[03:56:20] <Emcrules_Laptop> Valen: Those chips would make nice encoders! Too bad they only go up to 360PPR
[03:58:30] <pcw_home> They've got a 12 bit model
[04:00:04] <Emcrules_Laptop> Yeah i just saw that 1024 pos/360 deg
[04:00:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> pretty cool
[04:02:03] <Emcrules_Laptop> not bad when compared to a usdigital heds encoder!! SSI,PWM,Quadrature and commutation outputs. Pretty slick
[04:09:21] <danimal_garage> looks like i might have fixed the resolver
[04:09:26] <danimal_garage> seems to be working now
[04:11:48] <Emcrules_Laptop> Danimal: good news
[04:13:49] <danimal_garage> well maybe i spoke too soon.
[04:14:22] <danimal_garage> it works fine in one direction, but it moves MUCH slower in the other, and the ferror is pretty big in that direction
[04:14:45] <danimal_garage> and it gets progressively bigger
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[04:17:34] <danimal_garage> could that be the alignment of the resolver to the motor?
[04:19:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> You had this issue befor did you not?
[04:19:42] <danimal_garage> no
[04:19:52] <danimal_garage> it is the resolver position
[04:20:03] <danimal_garage> i'm adjusting it and it's getting better
[04:20:08] <danimal_garage> yay
[04:20:29] <danimal_garage> it has to be damn close apparently
[04:20:46] <danimal_garage> i'm just moving it a C-hair and it's making a big difference
[04:20:56] <danimal_garage> :)
[04:21:03] <danimal_garage> progress!
[04:22:03] <Emcrules_Laptop> I wonder what a C-hair measuring tape looks like!!!!
[04:22:30] <danimal_garage> hahaha
[04:22:38] <danimal_garage> depends on the color
[04:22:49] <danimal_garage> it's getting real close now
[04:22:57] <Emcrules_Laptop> LOL I thought that would get a chuckle
[04:23:48] <danimal_garage> some people in here dont appreciate that kind of humor, but i do
[04:24:40] <Emcrules_Laptop> Ah well it's all fun and games
[04:25:11] <danimal_garage> thats what i always say
[04:25:20] <danimal_garage> i got it dialed in pretty close now.
[04:25:34] <danimal_garage> the ferror is pretty even
[04:27:16] <danimal_garage> you have no idea how much of a relief this is
[04:27:42] <danimal_garage> now all i have to do is wire up my new pendant
[04:28:30] <Emcrules_Laptop> What did you do to the resolver? What kind of pendant?
[04:29:05] <danimal_garage> straightened out the piece that was messed up
[04:29:40] <Emcrules_Laptop> Im thinking of 86ing the spindle pulleys off of my bridgeport. how did you convert you mill?
[04:29:43] <danimal_garage> i got a fanuc pendant from a machinery dismantler today, along with an electical enclosure and an encoder for my lathe's spindle
[04:30:08] <Emcrules_Laptop> I put a pendant on my mill. i love it
[04:30:39] <danimal_garage> i just bought double v belt pulleys at the ratio i wanted and replaced the vari drive pulleys with them
[04:30:49] <danimal_garage> i control the rpm's with a VFD
[04:31:44] <danimal_garage> the pulley ratio is about 2/3 of the vari drive's max speed, and i run my vfd to 120hz i believe
[04:31:49] <Emcrules_Laptop> I have a spare 3.5 kw servo im looking to use for my spindle. Thinking of going to a 1:1 ratio the motor is a 5K RPM
[04:32:01] <danimal_garage> not bad!
[04:32:11] <danimal_garage> i'm at 6k now
[04:32:43] <Emcrules_Laptop> makes rigid tapping easy
[04:32:51] <danimal_garage> yea
[04:33:25] <Tom_itx> what types of parts do you make?
[04:33:32] <Tom_itx> what industry
[04:33:42] <Emcrules_Laptop> me?
[04:33:47] <Tom_itx> both
[04:34:00] <danimal_garage> bicycle components
[04:34:09] <Tom_itx> i kinda remembered that
[04:34:15] <danimal_garage> http//:www.homebrewedcomponents.com
[04:34:15] <Emcrules_Laptop> Automated machinery
[04:34:36] <Emcrules_Laptop> assembly lines mainly
[04:34:48] <Tom_itx> that would be fun i think
[04:34:55] <danimal_garage> i used to do that too when i worked for someone. i did automated saws and whatnot.
[04:34:55] <Tom_itx> being able to tie it all together
[04:35:09] <Tom_itx> i did aircraft parts for a while
[04:35:33] <danimal_garage> but i mostly did the mechanical and design side, i didnt do much in the way of programing (or any)
[04:35:43] <Emcrules_Laptop> my main account is a aerospace company that makes landing gear
[04:35:47] <danimal_garage> yea, i was in the aerospace industry for about 10 years
[04:35:50] <Tom_itx> i did the programming and ran some as well
[04:36:11] <danimal_garage> programming for the plc's i mean
[04:36:11] <Tom_itx> we contracted a trailing link for some gear
[04:36:14] <Tom_itx> new part
[04:36:21] <danimal_garage> nice
[04:36:23] <Emcrules_Laptop> before i went started my company i used to work for them for about 10 years
[04:36:27] <Tom_itx> original had to be hogged from a solid billet of ti
[04:36:35] <danimal_garage> we used to make the landing gear for the predator unmanned aircraft
[04:36:40] <Tom_itx> first 6 off were
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[04:36:50] <danimal_garage> same with the predator's
[04:37:08] <danimal_garage> i think it was 50k in ti for the first order
[04:37:11] <Emcrules_Laptop> yeah most of thier pars a solid forgings then machined to about 1/10 of the mass
[04:37:12] <danimal_garage> ouch
[04:37:12] <Tom_itx> the forgings took about a week to machine once we got those
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[04:37:45] <danimal_garage> we'd square up the huge blocks then water jet it out, then re machine everything
[04:37:58] <Emcrules_Laptop> I drop tested boeings version of the JSF
[04:38:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> what a design that was
[04:39:02] <Emcrules_Laptop> the nose gear wheels folded 90 deg to tuck up in the bay when retracted
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[04:40:49] <mikegg> FYI - 20 thou is too deep for a 1/16" three flute carbide em
[04:41:18] <Emcrules_Laptop> LOL is it a little bit shorter now!!!
[04:41:51] <mikegg> i've got a spare, so we can laugh...heh. and yes it is
[04:42:11] <danimal_garage> hey so my servo makes a bit of intermittent noise when sitting
[04:42:31] <danimal_garage> any clue what that may be?
[04:42:35] <mikegg> join the club heh
[04:42:44] <danimal_garage> it gets better if i lower the d
[04:42:48] <Emcrules_Laptop> Do you mean just humming while holding position
[04:42:51] <danimal_garage> but the ferror gets worse
[04:42:54] <danimal_garage> yes
[04:43:13] <Emcrules_Laptop> yeah its tuning
[04:43:14] <danimal_garage> sometimes it sounds a bit bad
[04:45:00] <Emcrules_Laptop> I find if i set my D too high it will do that. Do you have any I in your tuning?
[04:46:05] <Emcrules_Laptop> My tuning seems pretty low compared to what I have heard others using
[04:46:18] <Emcrules_Laptop> But it works and works well
[04:46:59] <mikegg> what is your command signal +/- 10VDC?
[04:47:05] <danimal_garage> i have some i
[04:47:09] <danimal_garage> like 90
[04:47:29] <danimal_garage> p is 120, i is 90, d was .76
[04:47:40] <danimal_garage> inches, not metric
[04:48:02] <Emcrules_Laptop> yeah Im only at P=200 I=10 D=5
[04:48:10] <danimal_garage> i decreased d to .5
[04:48:20] <danimal_garage> i doesnt seem to do much at all
[04:48:40] <danimal_garage> d makes the biggest difference
[04:49:00] <Emcrules_Laptop> What does your ferror plot look like?
[04:50:58] <danimal_garage> depends on the velocity
[04:51:25] <danimal_garage> has a little ripple, and it's pretty even on each side of the line depending on the direction
[04:52:16] <danimal_garage> pretty even though, no huge spikes at start and stop
[04:52:41] <mikegg> does EMC2 ever turn off without throwing an error for you guys?
[04:52:44] <Emcrules_Laptop> What about PID command
[04:52:56] <Emcrules_Laptop> Mike: no
[04:52:57] <danimal_garage> i dont know how to check that
[04:53:03] <danimal_garage> mikegg, no
[04:53:52] <Emcrules_Laptop> Plot the PID channel command value compared to encoder position and feed error
[04:54:37] <danimal_garage> what pin is that?
[04:54:50] <danimal_garage> i think i tried looking for it before, but i couldnt find it
[04:55:12] <danimal_garage> i saw some pid related stuff, but i couldnt make much sense of it
[04:55:52] <danimal_garage> i'm pretty beat right now though, i think i'm gunna go eat dinner and have another beer to celebrate the machine actually working
[04:56:02] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers
[04:56:16] <Emcrules_Laptop> Yeah i got to get to bed it's midnight here
[04:56:28] <danimal_garage> ah, thank you!
[04:56:32] <Emcrules_Laptop> use hal scope
[04:56:36] <danimal_garage> yea
[04:56:42] <Emcrules_Laptop> later
[04:56:42] <danimal_garage> it's 9 here
[04:56:49] <danimal_garage> goodnight, and thanks!
[04:56:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> nice to be on the west coast
[04:57:03] <danimal_garage> indeed
[04:57:04] <Emcrules_Laptop> no problem
[04:57:08] <danimal_garage> except for politics
[04:57:23] <Emcrules_Laptop> LOL later
[04:57:38] <danimal_garage> seeya
[04:57:47] <Emcrules_Laptop> i beat you to the beer being on the east coast and all
[04:57:58] <danimal_garage> i'm out too, adios everyone
[04:58:04] <danimal_garage> haha i doubt that
[04:58:20] <danimal_garage> i had my first one before 5pm over there
[04:59:00] <Emcrules_Laptop> sounds like we would get along then it's beer thirty any time remember im canadian
[04:59:26] <pcw_home> danimal_garage: you may get a little better tuning if you use the latest PID component so you can feed it
[04:59:28] <pcw_home> the encoder velocity estimate rather than one calculated from position differences
[05:00:13] <danimal_garage> Emcrules_Laptop, yea, we'd get along just fine!
[05:00:30] <danimal_garage> pcw_home, is that in 2.4.x?
[05:00:53] <danimal_garage> i was thinking of upgrading once i got everything working
[05:01:20] <pcw_home> Not sure off hand
[05:01:24] <danimal_garage> i'm on 2.3.5 on both machines now
[05:02:50] <mshaver> pcw_home: Did you get a chance to try the 8i20 today?
[05:02:56] <pcw_home> Tends to make D less noisy at low speeds
[05:02:57] <pcw_home> Als0 if you are running the drives in torque mode you may want to speed up the servo thread
[05:03:07] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[05:03:13] <danimal_garage> yea, i'm in torque mode
[05:03:17] <pcw_home> mshaver Yes
[05:03:33] <danimal_garage> thanks for the info
[05:03:39] <mshaver> thoughts?
[05:03:48] <danimal_garage> goodnight everyone
[05:03:53] <pcw_home> 2 or 4 KHz is probably going to be easier to tune
[05:04:34] <pcw_home> Had to add some Igain to get any stiiffness at low speeds
[05:05:14] <mikegg> is it ready for the public?
[05:05:29] <mikegg> i've been itching to try them
[05:06:39] <pcw_home> (maybe -30 -50) Also since I didnt have Halls I just used the bldc option "q"
[05:07:32] <mshaver> I eh? If you have an updated 8i20.hal with values for Igain, I could forward them to Dave at Smithy to try out on the big motor.
[05:07:50] <pcw_home> mikegg still kind of beta (needs master to run them)
[05:08:12] <mshaver> but it's going to be awesome!
[05:08:26] <pcw_home> just change the 0 Igain to -30 or so)
[05:08:50] <mshaver> Ok, I'll get him to try that tomorrow!
[05:09:09] <mikegg> you guys working with Smithy?
[05:09:21] <mshaver> I do - consultant
[05:09:46] <mikegg> cool! I bought a used 622 from them. upgraded the steppers on x and y to BLDC
[05:09:49] <mikegg> i love it
[05:10:33] <mshaver> Did you get it with or without the control?
[05:11:22] <mikegg> without, then built a DC power supply for the z-stepper and used 7i43 and the quad analog servo
[05:11:36] <mikegg> gecko drive for the stepper
[05:12:08] <mshaver> so, you got just the machine with the spindle drive electronics & no stepper drives?
[05:12:15] <mikegg> yep
[05:12:42] <mikegg> i already upgraded the x encoder from 1000 line to 5000 line
[05:12:53] <mikegg> i've got one for the Y - haven't installed it yet
[05:13:12] <mikegg> going to take one of the leftover encoders and mount it on the spindle for rigid tapping
[05:13:26] <mikegg> i mounted new limit switches as well.
[05:13:35] <mshaver> I'm glad you like it! R-8 spindle or the built in collet nose?
[05:14:07] <mikegg> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=8081020
[05:14:19] <mikegg> these guys are a lot nicer than the roller rocker things
[05:14:26] <mikegg> came with an ER-32
[05:14:32] <mikegg> I swapped out for R-8
[05:15:14] <mikegg> I took the tapered roller out of the bottom and put it in the top
[05:15:29] <mikegg> then had to replace the tapered roller in the bottom with a bigger one
[05:16:33] <mshaver> Very good!
[05:18:45] <mikegg> if you talk to the nice lady who answers the phones, tell her I said thanks!
[05:20:02] <mshaver> Michelle - my boss - I'll let her know! No one ever calls her when they're happy :)
[05:20:29] <mikegg> heh
[05:21:22] <mikegg> cppl
[05:21:27] <mikegg> er cool
[05:22:38] <mshaver> just e-mailed her the jist of the conversation - good night!
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[09:18:04] <archivist> the_wench hi
[09:18:22] <archivist> the_wench: hi
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[09:22:20] <psha> hi
[09:22:21] <the_wench> hello psha, you have a question?
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[09:30:51] <Sairon> hello
[09:30:52] <the_wench> hello Sairon, you have a question?
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[09:58:46] <HDB10> <jthornton> Have another question that you may be able to answer: Is it possible to display the value of an axis ?
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[10:05:09] <psha> HDB10: what is 'value of an axis'?
[10:05:13] <psha> and where to display?
[10:07:40] <archivist> or just look at the top left of the graphic box in axis and XY etc are displayed there
[10:09:31] <HDB10> <archivist> Thanks Mate I'll need to look a bit closer in future LOL
[10:09:53] <HDB10> Hi psha :-)
[10:10:19] <archivist> and who has the reading site!
[10:10:37] * archivist giggles
[10:11:11] <HDB10> I've been working on my project today and it's 32 Deg and 75% Humidity here.
[10:11:27] <archivist> 5 deg c indoors here
[10:11:30] <Valen> 42 deg here ;-P
[10:12:40] <HDB10> <archivist> Me I wrote it .
[10:13:04] <HDB10> Hi Valen :-)
[10:14:17] <Tom_itx> 8.0 F (-13.3 C)
[10:14:28] <Tom_itx> Wind Chill: -14 F (-26 C)
[10:14:49] <HDB10> Valen: I s your workshop air conditioned ?
[10:15:08] <Valen> no no its not
[10:15:15] <Tom_itx> i'll trade ya
[10:15:37] <psha> HDB10: heh, it's possible to display any value anywhere but you need to first choose what and where ;)
[10:16:31] <HDB10> Sounds like it's built in to EMC2 .
[10:22:19] <HDB10> Valen: What was the Humidity like at your place ?
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[10:22:27] <Valen> dunno, didn't feel to bad
[10:23:15] <HDB10> Probably low 30% or something I bet.
[10:24:33] <Valen> 45%
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[10:25:31] <HDB10> OK that's low but at &5% is a different story altogether ...
[10:25:42] <HDB10> 75%
[10:32:30] <HDB10> We have a Huge Cyclone of the coast in Australia : Take a look http://www.bom.gov.au/gms/IDE00005.latest.shtml
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[10:44:27] <elmo40> HDB10: fun times! >_<
[10:55:02] <MattyMatt> does anyone know where the demo file in Axis is in the source tree?
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[10:57:02] <MattyMatt> or just the filename? I can search the git tree with that
[10:57:34] <MattyMatt> a reprapper want sth to plot :)
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[11:03:48] <psha> MattyMatt: share/axis/images/axis.ngc?
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[11:08:21] <MattyMatt> thanks :)
[11:11:42] <HDB10> Have a question: How can one change the initial file :EMC2 to another ?
[11:14:44] <psha> what initial file?
[11:15:59] <psha> OPEN_FILE = /full/path/to/file.ngc
[11:15:59] <psha> The file to show in the preview plot when AXIS starts. Use a blank string "" and no file will be loaded at start up.
[11:16:02] <psha> this one?
[11:16:07] <psha> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BDISPLAY%5D-section
[11:19:25] <HDB10> Thanks psha now I understand what you mean :0)
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[12:23:21] <jthornton> good morning psha
[12:24:13] <psha> good morning
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[13:44:20] <mrsun> yeey, got the first pully in place, now just a motor mount then i can start using the mill again :P
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[14:29:23] <kb8wmc> good morning to all
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[15:18:57] <mrsun> wtf is it named, the thing that a toothed belt runs on ? :P
[15:19:02] <mrsun> timing pulley? :P
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[15:28:04] <skunkworks> timing pully, timing gear, 023
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[16:04:54] <mrsun> gah i cant make sense of these "milling speed calculators" ... STUPID inch system ..
[16:07:26] <psha> write your own ;)
[16:08:10] <atmega> come up with a better, more consistent measurement system
[16:11:58] <psha> atmega: metric! ;)
[16:12:16] <mrsun> aye, metric
[16:12:17] <mrsun> =)
[16:12:19] <atmega> psha: what time is it?
[16:13:34] <psha> 19:12
[16:13:34] <atmega> if you can deal with absurd time values, surely inches are easy enough.
[16:13:59] <atmega> so, it's 19.20?
[16:14:03] <psha> heh, 24h times are not extremly absurd ;)
[16:14:17] <psha> compared to am/pm...
[16:14:41] <psha> atmega: no, 19:20 :)
[16:14:56] <psha> not 7:20 PM(?) or 19.20 :)
[16:15:14] <atmega> my clock says 11:15, wouldn't that be 11.25 in metric?
[16:15:20] <psha> however dates written as month-day-year are even worse
[16:15:40] <psha> atmega: yes, it 11.25
[16:15:42] <psha> but base-60
[16:15:44] <psha> not base-10
[16:16:54] <atmega> so much for consistency
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[16:17:20] <atmega> I think metric places should stick to number of uS since some arbitrary epoch
[16:17:42] <psha> consistency... in we have , as fractional part separator here and . as arbitrary thousands separator
[16:17:52] <psha> so 1000000.5 is 1.000.000,5
[16:17:53] <psha> :)
[16:17:59] <psha> . is optional though
[16:18:09] <atmega> yeah, y'all are wrong on that too :)
[16:18:26] <psha> that's great issue for Excel users :)
[16:18:26] <atmega> it's ok though, we can deal with your foibles
[16:19:27] <SWPadnos> milling speeds/feeds are just about as complex in metric as they are in imperial
[16:20:38] <atmega> yeah, when you have that many numbers combined, it really doesn't matter what units they are
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[16:21:09] <SWPadnos> and when you throw in pi, it's automatically harder to do it all in your head
[16:21:30] <atmega> well, if you just define pi to be 3, it's a little easier.
[16:21:46] <SWPadnos> sure, then pi/min = 1/20
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[16:26:31] <psha> atmega: heh, as i understand there is no relation between volumes and lengths
[16:27:03] <SWPadnos> the third power would like to disagree with you on that
[16:27:13] <psha> i mean in imperial
[16:27:17] <psha> in metric it's simple ^3
[16:27:32] <SWPadnos> same with imperial
[16:27:38] <SWPadnos> 1 cubic inch is 1 in ^3 :)
[16:27:42] <psha> :)
[16:27:56] <SWPadnos> no, how many ounces of water that would be, I don't know
[16:28:25] <psha> ounce is weight measure, no?
[16:28:40] <SWPadnos> most of the time, yes
[16:28:51] <SWPadnos> there is probably an ounce-force as well, like pounds-force
[16:29:44] <psha> only obsolete unit currently in use here is 'pood'
[16:30:00] <SWPadnos> is that related to "poop" ?
[16:30:33] <psha> but it's only used for kettlebells
[16:30:46] <psha> 16kg
[16:31:11] <psha> however they are marked in kg's :)
[16:31:17] <psha> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettlebell
[16:48:49] <danimal_garage> i didnt know poop was a unit of measure
[16:49:05] <danimal_garage> however i guess it is, as people always say i'm full of shit
[16:52:16] <JT-Work> Hi Dan
[16:52:29] <danimal_garage> hi James
[16:52:37] <Dannyboy> hi
[16:52:37] <danimal_garage> how's it going
[16:52:37] <the_wench> hello Dannyboy, you have a question?
[16:52:41] <Dannyboy> no!
[16:52:51] <Dannyboy> my EMC runs great :D
[16:53:17] <bill2or3> excellent, now can you set mine up?
[16:53:21] <JT-Work> good, just rain here ice and snow is a bit north of us
[16:53:35] <Dannyboy> if you can pay better than my current employer ;)
[16:53:56] <danimal_garage> yuck!
[16:54:00] <bill2or3> curses, foiled by logic.
[16:54:10] <danimal_garage> got my servos all working
[16:54:28] <bill2or3> I have a fireballcnc incoming this week, haven't messed with emc for a year or three.
[16:54:55] <bill2or3> presumably they include configs, so it should be smooth.
[16:55:30] <Dannyboy> haha
[16:55:33] <Dannyboy> famous last words ;)
[16:55:49] <danimal_garage> i also met a machine dismantler the other day, scored a mpg pendant, spindle encoder for the lathe, and a 30x22x12 electrical enclosure from him
[16:56:22] <JT-Work> who is James?
[16:57:24] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: how did you get the resover working?
[16:58:06] <skunkworks> *resolver
[16:58:19] <cradek> did you fix the dead one?
[16:59:49] <danimal_garage> doh, sorry John, i was just sending an email to a james
[17:00:11] <danimal_garage> i straightened out the bent piece
[17:00:19] <danimal_garage> and it seems to be working
[17:00:22] <danimal_garage> yes cradek
[17:00:29] <cradek> yay
[17:00:46] <skunkworks> neat
[17:01:10] <danimal_garage> it's repeating at least
[17:01:27] <danimal_garage> and the servo moves fine with no ferrors
[17:01:35] <JT-Work> cool
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[17:02:04] <danimal_garage> i'm hoping this enclosure is big enough for the drives and my pc/mesa boards
[17:02:10] <danimal_garage> and ssr's
[17:02:16] <danimal_garage> i think it might be
[17:02:35] <SWPadnos> it's not
[17:02:48] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos, you're probably right
[17:03:11] <SWPadnos> if you're not saying "man, this thing is 3 times the size I need", it's too small :)
[17:03:17] <danimal_garage> haha
[17:03:26] <danimal_garage> it's 30x22x12
[17:03:35] <SWPadnos> heh. way too small
[17:03:50] <danimal_garage> the drives are small, and they dont need a power supply
[17:04:10] <SWPadnos> unless you make a second mounting plate (swing away maybe) for PC and/or Mesa stuff
[17:04:30] <danimal_garage> any idea why it doesnt see the index from the encoder output on my drives?
[17:04:44] <danimal_garage> i thought about just mounting the plate on the door
[17:04:46] <cradek> what is 'it'
[17:04:52] <SWPadnos> oh, that's assuming the servo power supply is in the same enclosure. If that's just for PC+Mesa+relays, it might be enough
[17:04:53] <skunkworks> I thought ours would be more than enough... IT is full
[17:04:55] <danimal_garage> emc
[17:05:04] <cradek> need more information
[17:05:28] <danimal_garage> i have index search enabled for homing, however it never sees it
[17:05:43] <danimal_garage> the drives have differential abz outputs
[17:05:54] <skunkworks> pins are setup correctly in hal?
[17:06:07] <cradek> you mean it just keeps moving forever when it looks for index?
[17:06:10] <danimal_garage> yes
[17:06:18] <danimal_garage> yes to cradek i mean
[17:06:30] <cradek> either it's not hooked up in hardware, or not hooked up in hal, or the hardware isn't working
[17:06:45] <skunkworks> that covers it :)
[17:06:49] <cradek> yes
[17:06:54] <danimal_garage> hmmm
[17:07:01] <danimal_garage> in hal
[17:07:25] <danimal_garage> i used the 5i20 sample servo config, which i did for my lathe, and it pretty much worked right away
[17:07:55] <danimal_garage> maybe i missed something though
[17:08:05] <cradek> net Xindex-enable hm2_5i20.1.encoder.00.index-enable <=> axis.0.index-enable pid.0.index-enable
[17:08:15] <cradek> for example
[17:08:59] <SWPadnos> or ...hm2_5i20.0.encoder...
[17:09:05] <SWPadnos> depending on how many you have
[17:09:09] <cradek> sure, it'll be different for you
[17:09:12] <cradek> but check it
[17:09:33] <SWPadnos> halcmd show sig | grep -i index
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[17:11:26] <danimal_garage> hmm i have
[17:11:29] <danimal_garage> opps
[17:11:46] <danimal_garage> hmm i dont see that but it's not in my lathe's hal either, but it works there
[17:11:54] <danimal_garage> i'll add it and see what she does
[17:11:58] <danimal_garage> thanks
[17:12:12] <cradek> index will not work without that axis.N.index-enable hooked up
[17:12:24] <SWPadnos> um. it's unlikely that the lathe is working without a signal like cradek suggested
[17:12:51] <SWPadnos> it may just have a name that doesn't include "index", if you used the grep thing
[17:12:53] <cradek> unlikely is a rather wishy-washy way to put it
[17:13:04] <cradek> :-)
[17:13:11] <SWPadnos> well, I can't be sure that some other factor makes it seem to work ... :)
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[17:13:28] <SWPadnos> or doesn't, or something
[17:13:55] <danimal_garage> ah ha!
[17:14:03] <danimal_garage> it's at the end of my lathe's hal
[17:14:18] <danimal_garage> i thought it would be in with the axis config stuff
[17:14:22] <danimal_garage> thanks!
[17:14:38] <SWPadnos> that all depends on you :)
[17:15:10] <danimal_garage> yea
[17:15:28] <danimal_garage> it's been a over a year since i built the lathe, i guess my memory is foggy
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[17:26:33] <danimal_garage> yay it works
[17:26:37] <danimal_garage> thanks
[17:28:59] <danimal_garage> does anyone know of a good way to clean out clogged oil lines on a mill?
[17:29:16] <danimal_garage> i think i'm lacking some lubrication on the x axis
[17:29:18] <cradek> are you sure it's the lines, not the metering nozzles?
[17:29:23] <cradek> usually it's the nozzles
[17:29:43] <danimal_garage> oh i dont know
[17:29:53] <danimal_garage> are those in the 1-shot pump itself?
[17:29:58] <cradek> easiest to just replace them, but I've saved some by using a grease zerk rejuvenator (hand-operated hydraulic oil pump thing)
[17:30:08] <cradek> no usually they're in the middle of the lines ... somewhere
[17:30:16] <cradek> sometimes on a distribution panel type thingy
[17:30:43] <cradek> each place oil comes out has its own metering nozzle somewhere in its line
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[17:30:51] <Jymmm> Connect to a nitrogen tank and open the valve =)
[17:31:19] <Jymmm> Just can't beat 2000 PSI
[17:31:36] <cradek> unless you smack the hydraulic thing with the hammer
[17:32:02] <cradek> I just forced new oil through them until they all dripped evenly
[17:32:15] <cradek> hmm - it's been a year or two - I should unhook them all and see if they all still flow
[17:32:27] <danimal_garage> i dont see much. i was assuming it's the actual channels in the iron that are clogged
[17:32:45] <danimal_garage> that's how my bridgeport was, i took it all apart and scraped them clean
[17:33:27] <cradek> http://www.usinenouvelle.com/industry/img/meter-units-slr-quick-to-connect-000118120-4.jpg
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[17:33:50] <cradek> the brass things are the nozzles - the cast part is one kind of distribution thing
[17:34:35] <cradek> http://lubromation.com/product_images/thumbnails/FJB-image%5B1%5D.jpg
[17:34:38] <cradek> better photo of a nozzle
[17:34:46] <cradek> see the flow direction marked by the arrow
[17:35:05] <danimal_garage> hmm
[17:35:07] <cradek> if you unscrew the line from the bottom and cycle your pump, you should see a good drop or two of oil come out slowly
[17:35:20] <cradek> like over 30 seconds
[17:35:27] <danimal_garage> ok
[17:35:39] <cradek> you should unscrew ALL the outlets and run the pump and make sure you get some oil from ALL of them
[17:36:02] <cradek> if it just runs out one, the others get nothing
[17:36:17] <cradek> but more likely most of them are just plugged and you'll see no drop develop at all
[17:36:39] <danimal_garage> i see something that looks like a brass fitting
[17:36:48] <danimal_garage> i'll look into it, thanks
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[17:36:55] <cradek> good luck - they're a pain
[17:37:12] <danimal_garage> ugh
[17:37:25] <danimal_garage> i just squirt oil on the ways now
[17:37:33] <danimal_garage> but i'd like to get the pump working
[17:37:50] <danimal_garage> it's a manual pump, but still better than nothing
[17:38:39] <cradek> manual might work a little differently - not sure - I've only worked on the automatic ones
[17:39:47] <danimal_garage> ah
[17:40:34] <danimal_garage> i was just gunna run some really strong soap through the system to flush it
[17:40:52] <danimal_garage> then flush it with fresh oil
[17:41:10] <cradek> if the nozzles are plugged, you won't run anything through them
[17:41:30] <cradek> you'll only run it where it currently works, where you'd rather keep the oil anyway
[17:42:03] <danimal_garage> honestly they just look like 1/8" to 1/4" npt adapters, not sure if it even has metering
[17:42:16] <danimal_garage> there's only 3 lines
[17:42:23] <danimal_garage> x y and z
[17:42:28] <cradek> oh :-)
[17:42:42] <SWPadnos> for a Bijur, the manuals are the same as the automatics, with the exception that the automatics are motorized
[17:42:49] <cradek> mine has about 20, heh
[17:42:51] <danimal_garage> it's a showa
[17:42:55] <cradek> is it bijur?
[17:43:08] <SWPadnos> or solenoidized
[17:43:22] <danimal_garage> showa
[17:43:48] <danimal_garage> it's about as low tech as the one on my bridgeport
[17:44:17] <SWPadnos> once you get out of the reservoir, it's all the same AFAIK
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[17:55:57] <danimal_garage> the machine is officially homed
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[17:59:32] <cradek> yay!
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[18:10:44] <JT-Work> Sweet!
[18:11:50] <cpresser> dude!
[18:13:07] <skunkworks> isn't positive reinforcment great!
[18:13:12] <skunkworks> ?
[18:14:00] <Jymmm> negative
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[18:16:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Who was "DiamondSystems"? I remember us talking to them, but not their wares
[18:16:49] * skunkworks only remembers diamond multimedia
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[18:16:54] <SWPadnos> I think they're the one that had the small I/O boards that I asked (the entire staff) about simple drivers for
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[18:17:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh, the one with the closed FPGA?
[18:17:27] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:17:36] <SWPadnos> and the 32k buffer you couldn't turn off ...
[18:17:43] <Jymmm> heh
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[18:21:33] <skunkworks> why wouldn't you ever want to use a buffer! ;)
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[18:58:01] <andypugh> I just tried my resolver inteface with the servo amp turned off. The output is excellent. I think I have been chasing electrical noise for the last several weeks.
[18:58:57] <danimal_garage> well that's good to have figured out at least!
[18:59:09] <danimal_garage> is it easy enough to fix?
[19:01:48] <alex_joni> any UK'ers around?
[19:08:09] <andypugh> Yes
[19:08:29] <alex_joni> any idea how much shipping from UK to .ro is?
[19:08:57] <alex_joni> small package, maybe 1lbs or so
[19:09:30] <SWPadnos> (5 kgs)
[19:09:37] <SWPadnos> oh, 0.5kgs
[19:10:20] <andypugh> Between £3.85 and £10.74
[19:10:20] <andypugh> http://sg.royalmail.com/portal/rm/PriceFinderResults?pageId=pc_sltc_rm_results&keyname=rmPriceFinderResults&catId=23500532
[19:11:10] <andypugh> Airmail Small Packets, if it will fit.
[19:11:16] <alex_joni> ah, ok.. so 9.99£ is fairly ok
[19:11:29] <alex_joni> was wondering if it's overpriced or not
[19:12:06] <andypugh> Yes, especially if it is more that 25mm thick, at which point it isn't a Small Packet
[19:12:28] <alex_joni> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180616899775
[19:12:48] <alex_joni> isn't that 25.4mm thick? :P
[19:13:27] <andypugh> Africa, Asia, Central America and Caribbean, Middle East, North America, Oceania, Southeast Asia, South America, Bulgaria, Estonia, Gibraltar, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Slovenia, Ukraine
[19:13:33] <andypugh> That's lucky!
[19:13:46] <alex_joni> yeah :)
[19:14:03] <andypugh> If he won't ship to Romania, I could forward it on.
[19:14:46] <danimal_garage> minus what's in the package :)
[19:15:40] <atmega> Bill Bowden died after after diving at Eagle's Nest.
[19:15:46] <atmega> <wrong chan>
[19:17:43] <andypugh> Talking about eBay, I am fuming about missing this by a few quid. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carver-Machine-Tool-Vice-/130479199568
[19:18:04] <SWPadnos> that will be more than 25 (or 25.4) mm thick
[19:18:35] <andypugh> Only retail price I can find is: http://www.toolmart.com.au/301153.html (which, even in $AU is a lot of money)
[19:19:17] <andypugh> I want something like that, as head-to-table distance on my Mill is rather limited.
[19:19:18] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, make sure that exact model, from that exact manufacturer, works well. I found some knockoff MB-D10 (Nikon D300/D700) grips didn't always work
[19:22:51] <danimal_garage> ok my machine is officially ready to run
[19:22:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=686597
[19:23:13] <danimal_garage> everything works
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[19:25:12] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfJ-iFHQprg
[19:28:01] <andypugh> Bizarre thing to video
[19:28:15] <cradek> unboxing videos are weirdly fetishistic
[19:28:22] <andypugh> (And I say that as someone with some bizarre videos on Youtube)
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[19:29:58] <andypugh> I read a whole review once of the packaging of the Mac G4 Cube. But that was actually quite interesting, covering the ways that the unpacking was a journey of discovery, with unusually tactile packing materials, to make the purchaser feel better about paying a fortune for a pretty, but ordinary, computer.
[19:30:16] <andypugh> I liked my G4 Cube.
[19:30:31] <archivist> easily conned :)
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[19:31:22] <andypugh> I bought it off eBay
[19:32:39] <skunkworks> I wonder if using those rare earth maganets ball bearings for the touch probe would be better...
[19:32:46] <skunkworks> hmmmm
[19:33:27] <archivist> I was going to take a pic of the probe I have here today but other jobs got in the way
[19:33:38] <andypugh> skunkworks: Do they conduct?
[19:33:46] <psha> archivist: unboxing? :)
[19:33:48] <skunkworks> good question.
[19:34:02] <archivist> psha, no a touch probe
[19:34:04] <skunkworks> I should have a coworker bring some in
[19:34:25] <skunkworks> archivist: when you get a chance - would be neat to see.
[19:34:34] <andypugh> How does one ork a cow?
[19:35:23] * archivist is reminded of the four candles joke
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[19:35:32] <skunkworks> heh
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[19:40:03] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I read a couple of reviews and they all summerized the same
[19:40:14] <alex_joni> build quality is not quite par, but functionality is great
[19:40:27] <alex_joni> the BG-E9 3rd party is about 45$ at amazon
[19:40:37] <alex_joni> vs. 200EUR+ original over here
[19:40:57] <danimal_garage> i wonder if shipping a camera is considered media mail
[19:41:02] <SWPadnos> hmmm. so, I'm pretty sure I remember that you're supposed to use the same netmask for all hosts (and by extension all aliased addresses on a single ethernet interface) on a particular ethernet segment. am I incorrect?
[19:41:32] <alex_joni> andypugh: thanks for the offer, I'll guess I'll find out soon
[19:41:50] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: well.. you're supposed, but not forced
[19:42:06] <alex_joni> you can put more limiting netmasks on some hosts, to prevent them seeing others
[19:42:09] <cradek> SWPadnos: depends what you're trying to do
[19:42:10] <SWPadnos> I suppose that should only be necessary if there could be an address conflict, ie if you have a class A with the same top 8 bits as a class B or C (or smaller)
[19:43:02] <SWPadnos> well, I have some fixed IPs from Comcast, but there's also a dhcp server in the NID, so anything that isn't set up with one of hte fixed addresses gets a /24 address
[19:43:11] <SWPadnos> but the fixed addresses are a /27 or /28 or something
[19:43:39] <SWPadnos> and nowhere near the same, the addresses server by DHCP are in the 10.x.x.x range
[19:43:51] <SWPadnos> served
[19:45:02] <SWPadnos> so what I'm trying to do is make it so a server I have here is accessed via the gigabit network from local machines (on the 10.x.x.x net), but is still accessible via the internet at its public (static) address
[19:45:23] <atmega> put in 2 ethernet cards
[19:45:28] <SWPadnos> using some host file magic on the local machines, and of course only one ethernet card
[19:45:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what are you babbling about?
[19:45:59] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, read back and then tell me :)
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[19:46:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I did, that's why I asked
[19:46:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you have static subnet and dhcp. are they the same subnet?
[19:46:40] <psha> SWPadnos: what's problem with aliases?
[19:46:41] <SWPadnos> the odd thing about the router is that it doesn't have a separate ethernet jack for static vs. DHCP machines, there's only one network connector
[19:47:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Are you trying to assign fixed ip's for certain hosts?
[19:47:08] <SWPadnos> I have no problem making a single interface on the server(s) have multiple addresses
[19:47:36] <SWPadnos> I have a block of fixed, routable IPs, and I want to use some of them for "outward-visible" machines
[19:47:37] <psha> SWPadnos: and what's problem? to recieve DHCP requests on alias?
[19:47:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ok, I get that
[19:47:53] <SWPadnos> no, the problem may be in my head, and was my first question
[19:47:56] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: so your server does routing?
[19:48:12] <alex_joni> or are they phisically connected to the internet too?
[19:48:16] <SWPadnos> the static IPs are on an /28, the DHCP addresses are on a wholly different /24
[19:48:23] <SWPadnos> no, the server does no routing
[19:48:33] <andypugh> I wonder how many other forums get confused about which sense of "router" is intended?
[19:48:35] <alex_joni> ok, then there's no real problem afaics
[19:48:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: where is this dhcp server? on your router, of from your ISP ?
[19:48:54] <Jymmm> s/of/or/
[19:48:58] <danimal_garage> these snyder's flavored pretzel pieces are addicting
[19:48:59] <SWPadnos> ISP supplied cable router
[19:49:28] <alex_joni> and a bunch of static IP's
[19:49:30] <SWPadnos> it's smart enough to route fixed IP traffic, and to hand out addresses via DHCP, it just does it all on the same wire
[19:49:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and you are trying to make it so that both fixed and dhcsp subnets can talk to each other?
[19:50:03] <psha> SWPadnos: so setup alias and recieve DHCP on one and set static on other
[19:50:12] <alex_joni> what psha said
[19:50:35] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: each client box has an internal addy (from the DHCP) and a real IP (static on an alias interface)
[19:50:37] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, not quite. I just want to be able to access the server locally via gigabit, instead of using the external IP address (which goes through a 10/100 port on the router, if nothing else)
[19:51:00] <SWPadnos> assigning the addresses is not an issue, I'm quite familiar with how to do that :)
[19:51:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, how many publically accessable hsts will you have?
[19:51:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, how many publically accessable hosts will you have?
[19:51:16] <SWPadnos> each client does not have a fixed IP, only a few servers do
[19:51:20] <SWPadnos> a few
[19:51:24] <alex_joni> ok, then only for the servers
[19:51:26] <cradek> why not put a second network card in your server and then do it all the most normal way possible?
[19:51:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I need a number
[19:51:39] <cradek> who cares if the cable router thingy can hand out dhcp - so can anything
[19:51:47] <SWPadnos> cradek, because the network routing is done in the cable box, and I'm not sure I can change that
[19:52:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: does the cable router have one or two ethernet ports for the LAN side?
[19:52:13] <cradek> you would do your own nat and your own dhcp block in your own server
[19:52:24] <SWPadnos> it has 4, but they're all the same - it's a 4-port switch
[19:52:50] <SWPadnos> cradek, that doesn't help if I want to use more than one server (which is why I got 5 IPs)
[19:53:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, so set your hosts to have eth0 and eht0:1 eht0 being fixed, and eht0:1 being dhcp
[19:53:09] <cradek> you'd plug in your 5 machines to the cable router
[19:53:10] <SWPadnos> well, maybe it would, but it would run all the comms through one machine
[19:53:24] <SWPadnos> not that it matters for performance reasons :)
[19:53:25] <cradek> put a second interface in whatever, and do nat/dhcp with it for all your transient machines
[19:53:28] <psha> SWPadnos: it helps you since you may setup local DNS with local IP's
[19:53:41] <cradek> I'll stop helping
[19:53:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:53:48] <cradek> I don't care one bit what you do :-)
[19:53:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: understnad?
[19:53:52] <alex_joni> too much help going on at the moment
[19:54:07] <archivist> skunkworks, cradek http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2011/2011_02_01_probe/
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[19:54:19] <SWPadnos> so, the consensus is that it doesn't matter if you have multiple nets on the same segment, if those nets have different netmasks?
[19:54:19] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: so you have at least another switch (gigabit) right?
[19:54:29] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: surely no issue
[19:54:39] <SWPadnos> ok, thanks. that was my original question :)
[19:54:41] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: just hook the doohickey to the whatchamacallit with the universal cable thingy
[19:54:58] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, of course. that's how you got cable to your garage, IIRC
[19:54:59] <alex_joni> they can also have the same netmask
[19:55:00] <archivist> skunkworks, shown separated so you know the mounting, that also has the centring screws
[19:55:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: dont confuse netmasks with subnets
[19:55:07] <psha> SWPadnos: even same networks may be workarounded ;)
[19:55:13] <JT-Work> exactly
[19:55:18] <alex_joni> say you have 192.168.0.x/24 and 192.168.1.x/24 on the same switch
[19:55:25] <alex_joni> no problem there
[19:55:41] <SWPadnos> sure, I know that :)
[19:55:42] <Jymmm> /23
[19:55:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: eth0:0 and eth0:1 and your done
[19:56:07] <psha> some time ago i'd configured local game server with _same_ networks on different interfaces with overlapping addresses ;)
[19:56:26] <SWPadnos> in this case though, I have a block of 8 addresses (I guess that's a /29) for the fixed IPs, and a /24 for DHCP, which I'm not sure I can change in the ISP supplied router
[19:56:34] <JT-Work> well I did have to route mine through the woods and over some tree branches to a stick then to the garage :)
[19:56:35] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, sure, I know all about aliasing
[19:57:14] <alex_joni> I did this with a linux box once..
[19:57:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Though, what I would do is have all the hosts on a private subnet, behind your own router (not comcast controlled)
[19:57:49] <alex_joni> you only need to enable proxy-arp on both interfaces (so the real IP's on the internal net are visible to the outside world)
[19:57:49] <SWPadnos> the 192.168.0.x vs 192.168.1.x thing is the primary reason for netmasks in the first place :)
[19:58:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: then just do port forwarding as needed.
[19:58:51] <SWPadnos> yeah, but you're paranoid :)
[19:59:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Just becasue I'm paranoid doens't mean they're not out to get me.
[19:59:17] <alex_joni> when you're talking networking, you can't be paranoid enough :D
[19:59:27] <SWPadnos> but I run Linux!
[19:59:29] <alex_joni> see latest SF niceness :D
[19:59:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Besides, if their router fails, your lan is still operational
[20:00:08] <alex_joni> echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/eth0/proxy_arp
[20:00:19] <SWPadnos> sure. I have a GS116 switch for all the clients to connect to, so it would work until the DHCP leases expire anyway :)
[20:00:25] <alex_joni> that's for linux routing arp requests
[20:00:45] <alex_joni> unless you get new clients
[20:03:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: FWIW, when having DHCP, I setup hosts that I want fixed ip's (printers etc) to 1-127, and clients (random) ip to 128-254
[20:03:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, I usually do a split something like that as well
[20:03:59] <SWPadnos> though I use 1-200 or so as dynamic and only the top 50-ish as static
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[20:04:20] <Jymmm> s/static/fixed/
[20:04:31] <SWPadnos> locally static :)
[20:04:50] <Jymmm> DHCP != Static
[20:04:54] <alex_joni> locally fixed static
[20:05:12] <alex_joni> I get static on this hotel television set
[20:05:30] <SWPadnos> "gettin' nothin' but static" - the B-52's
[20:06:36] <skunkworks> archivist: neat - I like how they align it.
[20:07:10] <archivist> skunkworks, the adjusters also hold it in
[20:07:29] <archivist> but its effing big
[20:08:14] <cradek> do you have the machine end of the comm link?
[20:08:20] <psha> archivist: what's strange color strip on the right of photo?
[20:08:24] <archivist> no
[20:08:30] <archivist> duff camera
[20:08:37] <psha> looks great :)
[20:09:42] <psha> break sensor a bit more and you may be as famous as Warhol ;)
[20:09:57] <archivist> cradek, never powered it up yet dunno if on/off or what, the leds have a pattern around the dia though so there will be a start bit due to rotation
[20:11:20] <archivist> the price was right missing sensor is a minor annoyance :)
[20:14:21] <alex_joni> Jymmm,andypugh: got one, seems good so far, we'll see when it actually gets here
[20:14:34] <Jymmm> alex_joni: k
[20:19:38] <skunkworks> archivist: right - I have seen that used for adjusting things.. (I think our laser has adjustments like that..
[20:20:05] <skunkworks> I assume it was optical?
[20:20:47] <archivist> connection to external is optical yes
[20:21:13] <skunkworks> did you say you had it apart?
[20:21:14] <archivist> the blueish leds in the head middle
[20:21:24] <archivist> yes I did explore inside
[20:21:35] <skunkworks> what mechenism does it use?
[20:22:03] <archivist> has a spring plate and three points it contacts
[20:22:10] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[20:22:33] <skunkworks> I thought about making something like that also - but you would have to add a little electronics for it to work
[20:22:48] <skunkworks> I like the 6 ball/3 pin setup for that
[20:23:17] <skunkworks> (just a bunch of series switches)
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[20:28:11] * archivist starts unscrewing :)
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[20:38:35] <archivist> I only go so deep to avoid damage to the contacts, will now take more pics
[20:44:02] <archivist> a few more pis showing internals
[20:44:12] <archivist> pics
[20:46:14] <archivist> only a single contact from electronics and return via body
[20:46:24] <skunkworks> neat
[20:47:23] <archivist> last pic has possibly the best spring plate view without any more disassembly
[20:47:45] <archivist> one has to imagine some of it
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[20:50:21] <andypugh> I think you voided your warranty
[20:50:32] <archivist> who mee :)
[20:50:58] <skunkworks> heh
[20:51:12] <archivist> I have not found a cheap source of batteries to try it yet
[20:54:07] <andypugh> A friend of mine runs: http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/
[20:54:25] <archivist> could not be used at high RPM with the way the xtal is mounted
[20:54:34] <andypugh> What do you need?
[20:54:55] <archivist> 1/2C lithium
[20:56:24] <archivist> CSC 93 1/2 C to give the full part number 2 off
[20:57:47] <archivist> or another number is 3B29
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[20:58:38] <archivist> I think an adapter to use a common type makes sense
[20:58:53] <andypugh> Not doing well, but perhaps a query to that website might find you one.
[20:58:57] <andypugh> I agree.
[20:59:10] <andypugh> A polymer sleeve
[21:03:32] <archivist> found a pdf spec of it, 3.9 volt and 3.4AH
[21:04:26] <archivist> graph shows 3.6v ish though