#emc | Logs for 2011-01-29

[00:00:10] <micges> gezar: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EmcFeatures
[00:00:10] <ftkalcevic> I've just grabbed the source to v2.4.6 and when I build, I don't get a rtlib/hostmot2.so (that's what I see when I run emc). I see it there for 2.3.4. Has something changed?
[00:00:11] <ve7it> true, but you need a video card anyway
[00:01:32] <micges> ftkalcevic: hostmot2.so ? it should be .ko
[00:02:44] <gezar> not sure if port control will be possible
[00:03:02] <ftkalcevic> Is that because I built the simulator?
[00:03:03] <JT-Shop> danimal_garage: did you figure out your tool change?
[00:03:32] <micges> ftkalcevic: yep
[00:03:39] <andypugh> ftkalcevic: Yes, that will do it. Not Hostmot2 in sim
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[00:03:49] <micges> simulator mode doesn't build hw drivers
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[00:04:13] <gezar> hmm would a sound signal work for say a frequency drive?
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[00:04:27] <ftkalcevic> Doh! Is it possible to have both simulator and rt versions? I assume yes, but in different directories.
[00:04:45] <gezar> I may be able to gain access to sound sections on the hdmi port and use it as a frequency drive
[00:04:56] <micges> ftkalcevic: yes in different dirs
[00:05:01] <andypugh> Ah, yes, there's a fun project. Most sound cards are _not_ AC-coupled. You could look into using one as a 2-channel analogue input. :-)
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[00:06:20] <gezar> andypugh : I'll talk with the prof on Monday and see what he thinks of a simple project involving something like that
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[00:12:57] * JT-Shop is a tired puppy and heads in to get some chow but first http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Shop%20Addition/P1010075.jpg
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[00:20:01] <danimal_garage> thats looking good jt!
[00:20:11] <Tom_itx> now run 3phase to it and you're set
[00:21:39] <danimal_garage> hmmmm my homing isnt picking up the index
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[00:26:42] <danimal_garage> the z output from the encoder is for the index pulse, right?
[00:29:28] <andypugh> yes
[00:29:53] <danimal_garage> hmmm
[00:42:56] <danimal_garage> i dont see any sort of change when i scope the index enable pin for that axis
[00:44:34] <elmo40> gezar: have you looked into nVidia's CUDA processors?
[00:45:02] <elmo40> apps such as BOINC use them for computing. Some games have CUDA code in them and work better when run on systems with those cards
[00:45:30] <elmo40> JT-Shop: nice truck. I have a GMC version ;) 2005.
[00:46:39] <gezar> elmo40 : that is exactly what I am talking about
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[00:55:37] <danimal_garage> hmm well no index pulse sucks
[00:55:40] <danimal_garage> oh well
[00:55:48] <danimal_garage> still better than steppers
[00:56:09] <danimal_garage> well, better than the steppers i had anyways
[00:56:22] <danimal_garage> i'm sure there are much better steppers out there
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[01:03:57] <elmo40> danimal_garage: do you have a website?
[01:04:32] <elmo40> would be nice if you posted your trials and tribulations for everyone to see :)
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[01:21:37] <danimal_garage> elmo40, i do, but only for the parts i make
[01:21:49] <danimal_garage> www.homebrewedcomponents.com
[01:22:17] <danimal_garage> there's a link on the site to my blog with a picture of my shop with videos
[01:23:32] <Tom_itx> haha. i did a macro to generate sprockets for smartcam
[01:28:20] <danimal_garage> ha, nice
[01:28:47] <Tom_itx> got the data from the Machinery's Handbook
[01:28:54] <danimal_garage> i used sprocketeer to get the pitch then i modified the teeth in solidworks
[01:29:03] <danimal_garage> cool
[01:29:05] <Tom_itx> this draws the teeth for you
[01:29:23] <danimal_garage> yea, so did sprocketeer, but i wanted a different shape
[01:30:00] <Tom_itx> i haven't used it in years but you enter the pitch, number of teeth etc and away it goes
[01:30:24] <danimal_garage> same with sprocketeer
[01:37:34] <Tom_itx> are those for BMX or mountain bikes?
[01:40:36] <danimal_garage> mountain
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[01:55:54] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Have you seen the Sram Red rear casette, all machined in one piece?
[01:57:07] <danimal_garage> yea, pretty neat
[01:57:37] <andypugh> But not inexpensive
[01:58:20] <danimal_garage> too rich for my blood
[01:58:29] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I wrote some G-code to machine sprockets parametrically. Who needs CAM :-)
[02:01:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> Anybody know of a good place to buy brush dc servo motors?
[02:01:26] <andypugh> eBay?
[02:01:49] <andypugh> But why brushed? They are so old-school.
[02:02:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> I know i just want to have options
[02:02:35] <Emcrules_Laptop> i use ac right now
[02:02:49] <andypugh> What sort of AC?
[02:03:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> bosch, ab,
[02:04:00] <andypugh> That is the answer to a different question to the one I asked
[02:04:22] <Emcrules_Laptop> clarify?
[02:04:27] <andypugh> http://www.electricmotors.machinedesign.com/guiEdits/Content/bdeee4a/bdeee4a_3.aspx ?
[02:05:52] <andypugh> There are at least two extremely different types of motor both called "AC Servo motors"
[02:07:11] <andypugh> For example, I have a set of AC servo motors (that's what it says on the label) which are actually brushless PM motors.
[02:09:34] <andypugh> They are often called "synchronous DC servo motors" but that is also wrong, as they work much better if you don't use them synchronously.
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[02:10:21] <andypugh> (I might be being deliberately confusing)
[02:10:50] <Emcrules_Laptop> you think
[02:10:50] <pcw_home> AC synchronous motors (wound rotor) are really old and I think still use in large sizes
[02:11:03] <pcw_home> used
[02:11:19] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://www.boschrexroth.com/dcc/Vornavigation/Vornavi.cfm?Language=EN&VHist=g96068,g98567&PageID=p146802
[02:11:30] <Emcrules_Laptop> not so old
[02:11:51] <andypugh> Hi Pete, I was reading this: http://www.electricmotors.machinedesign.com/guiEdits/Content/bdeee4a/bdeee4a_4.aspx
[02:11:59] <andypugh> And I think it is just wrong.
[02:12:53] <andypugh> Emcrules_Laptop: I am guessing not the 495Nm ones (Yikes!)
[02:14:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> probably not!!! looking for a source of dc brush motors for people other than me... That want servo but dont want to pay for a new motor and drive
[02:15:23] <pcw_home> Yes but the motor (exclusive of drive) is not a DC motor but rather a AC driven PMSM (Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor)
[02:16:07] <andypugh> I am not entirely sure about the "synchronous" part.
[02:17:09] <pcw_home> synchronous just means the rotor follows the field with no "slip"
[02:17:26] <andypugh> As, in practical terms, the field follows the rotor, with a + or - 90 degrees shift.
[02:19:01] <andypugh> I have a wierd ambition to run a Fanuc Red-Cap from a parallel port alone.
[02:19:16] <andypugh> (with some power semis, of course)
[02:19:36] <pcw_home> I mean the old 1930s 200 HP ac synchronous motors were name that for the same reason, their rotors remain synchronized to the line
[02:19:42] <Emcrules_Laptop> I just order a 8i20 and have an old red cap lying around
[02:20:18] <pcw_home> thats cheating, you must drive the IGBTs from the parallel port
[02:20:49] <Emcrules_Laptop> im sure you have a board for that!!!
[02:20:56] <andypugh> 8i20 and Red Cap is now fully supported in Master. Just totally untested
[02:21:12] <pcw_home> Might run a little lumpy...
[02:22:28] <andypugh> I have been thinking about that. In the same way as encoders have "position-interpolated", I could add angle-interpolated to the Hall and Fanuc feedback in bldc.comp
[02:22:56] <Emcrules_Laptop> I will be testing it shortly thats why i wanted a dc brush motor i was going to hook up a stepper, DC brush, and a AC DRIVE and a synchronous MOTOR all in one setup just for kicks
[02:23:58] <andypugh> I would be very, very, interested to see if we can get the Red Cap working with the 8i20
[02:24:25] <pcw_home> I do have a motor that might be called a brushless DC servo motor. It has the drive electronics built in,
[02:24:27] <pcw_home> just 2 power wires (reversable like a brush motor) and acts just like a brush motor
[02:24:45] <Emcrules_Laptop> Its off of a robot
[02:25:00] <Emcrules_Laptop> The red cap
[02:25:12] <pcw_home> Are those the ones with the funny commutation signals?
[02:25:25] <andypugh> Where is it? (geographically)
[02:25:36] <Emcrules_Laptop> toronto
[02:25:51] <andypugh> Not that funny, it's a 4-but Gray code
[02:25:57] <andypugh> (bit)
[02:26:15] <andypugh> Emcrules_Laptop: Too far to post to me then.
[02:26:16] <Emcrules_Laptop> fanuc serial as well i think
[02:26:52] <Emcrules_Laptop> yeah it weighs about 20-40 lbs
[02:27:21] <Emcrules_Laptop> why so interested in a fanuc red cap
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[02:28:18] <andypugh> pcw_home: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo_motors_drives/119198-new_fanuc_interface.html
[02:28:22] <Emcrules_Laptop> PCW can i use serial straight from a 5i23 to the 8i20?
[02:29:06] <andypugh> Emcrules_Laptop: They are common, powerful, and scare most people away with their wierdness, so ought to be relatively cheap.
[02:29:48] <pcw_home> Hey that PDF is upside down!
[02:30:00] <Emcrules_Laptop> Very true once the mating drive blows up they usually get replaced around here!!!
[02:30:12] <andypugh> Emcrules_Laptop: Yes, but the 5i44 (?) is cheap and neat
[02:30:43] <Emcrules_Laptop> I know just forgot to add the 7i44 to the order
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[02:31:31] <pcw_home> Emcrules_Laptop: not quite, you need a RS-422 interface of some kind, so 7I44, 7I47, 7I52. 7I34, or cobble together a 26ls32 and a 26ls31...
[02:32:15] <Emcrules_Laptop> Shitty guess i will call and order one monday!!
[02:33:08] <andypugh> Maybe pcw can call for you :-)
[02:33:41] <pcw_home> I dont deal (reliably) with sales stuff
[02:34:31] <Emcrules_Laptop> Too late anyways the order shipped today.
[02:36:54] <andypugh> I am thinking I am probably going to use these 8i20s on my actual mill. However, that idea feels a bit wrong as they were provided as samples. I think being brought up catholic messed up my head.
[02:37:14] <Emcrules_Laptop> Is there any way to aviod having to shake and wake a motor on the 8i20 when no hall signals exist?
[02:37:43] <andypugh> Emcrules_Laptop: You can use an absolute encoder
[02:38:02] <Emcrules_Laptop> If that wasnt an option?
[02:38:20] <Emcrules_Laptop> Im sure the answer is no but had to ask
[02:38:34] <andypugh> I could add a "P" option to bldc.comp standing for "Psychic"
[02:38:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> LOL
[02:39:06] <cradek> you should make those netmos cards work too, while you're at it
[02:40:01] <cradek> (too bad making a card pci makes it more expensive - it would be so nice to not deal with that EPP stuff)
[02:40:16] <andypugh> If you can think of a way for EMC2 to know where the magnets are in the coils, then I can code it. But I think I have covered all the options.
[02:40:17] <pcw_home> I was amazed that Kirks old Lava card was an old 5V FPGA
[02:40:49] <Emcrules_Laptop> Just worried about potential runaway if there were wiring issues
[02:40:51] <toastydeath> put a coil around the magnets and turn it on with high current
[02:41:12] <toastydeath> try to figure out how the magnets are interacting with the coil!
[02:41:19] <toastydeath> then write a paper and submit it to a journal
[02:41:25] <andypugh> That's basically the "q" option at the moment
[02:41:42] <pcw_home> I think there are ways to just wiggle a little (0, 180 90 270) and see which way the encoder counts
[02:41:56] <toastydeath> since i'm unfamiliar with where this is a problem, where is this a problem
[02:42:41] <toastydeath> (just curious, i am not into motors)
[02:43:08] <andypugh> pcw_home: I guess which way, and how fast could be used, assuming no asymmetrical load or inertia
[02:44:16] <pcw_home> toastydeath: Starting PMSMs when you dont know the rotor/field relationship
[02:44:34] <andypugh> toastydeath: A brushless PM motor needs to know where the rotor magnetic field is relative to the field coils so it can figure out what to do.
[02:44:47] <toastydeath> oh, cool
[02:45:04] <Emcrules_Laptop> Commonly refered to as "shake and wake"
[02:45:41] <cradek> andypugh> But why brushed? They are so old-school.
[02:45:51] <cradek> *cough cough*
[02:45:58] <Emcrules_Laptop> Funny
[02:46:03] <andypugh> You can wiggle and measure back-emf in a really tightly integrated system
[02:46:31] <andypugh> cradek: ?
[02:46:47] <pcw_home> andypugh: yes we played with it a little but one thing we didnt do right was to undo (drive same time at 180 degrees) each motion
[02:46:48] <cradek> just sayin'
[02:47:26] <andypugh> I would bet as much as 50p that a set of hall sensors is cheaper than brushgear.
[02:49:28] <Emcrules_Laptop> I guess I will find out once it's in my hands.
[02:50:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> I have couple of motors to play around with it
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[02:53:42] <pcw_home> I may play some more with the wiggle start, better to just buzz a bit than jump 90 degrees
[02:53:46] <andypugh> I reckon a brushless motor with no absolute feedback is a fairly pathological device.
[02:54:18] <pcw_home> well many linear motors are in that boat
[02:55:23] <andypugh> brushless + resolver is a very nice system in principle. In practice with EMC2 and digital-only inputs its a pain.
[02:56:34] <andypugh> (though as Mesa, Pico and sundry others make convertors, perhaps that is just me)
[02:58:17] <cradek> jepler suggests we could support resolvers by having them start up in position and make no other change to the hal interface (subsequent index will jump the count by a multiple of the counts in a full cycle)
[02:58:31] <cradek> it does not really seem very hard (haha)
[02:59:20] <andypugh> I don't understand what you said there
[02:59:35] <pcw_home> Not just resolvers but absolute encoders in general would be nice to support
[02:59:39] <cradek> say you want 4096 counts per rev
[02:59:49] <cradek> the resolver is half a turn from its origin, you start emc
[02:59:51] <cradek> the count is 2048
[03:00:11] <cradek> if you later home to index, it jumps to zero (changing the count by a multiple of 4096)
[03:00:35] <cradek> 'the count is 2048' is the magic (a relative device starts at 0)
[03:01:19] <cradek> emc wouldn't have to know anything about it, but you'd have absolute positioning in hal right away
[03:01:25] <andypugh> Either I am missing something, or that is obvious.
[03:01:33] <cradek> haha
[03:01:36] <cradek> it could be obvious
[03:01:52] <cradek> I'm just saying we don't need emc to know anything about it
[03:02:38] <andypugh> Yes, that has always been my assumption. Here is a number, it scales to position like this...
[03:03:18] <andypugh> Resolver zero _is_ the index
[03:03:24] <cradek> yeah
[03:05:27] <pcw_home> Or some user settable offset from resolver 0
[03:06:07] <cradek> the ones I've seen are made to rotate in their mounting for this adjustment
[03:06:08] <andypugh> I need to spend some time with my resolvers and the Arduino thing. The motors sit there buzzing (sampling error) but then occasionally do a full revolution at full speed, then settle again.
[03:06:56] <pcw_home> Want to try a 7I49?
[03:07:19] <cradek> I really want to see that 7i49 work :-)
[03:07:20] <andypugh> bldc.comp lets you program an offest of motor magnetic zero from encoder absolute zero (or incremental index). It's not complicated.
[03:07:36] <Tom_itx> if i were to convert a tabletop mill with steppers, what mesa card would i be looking at to use for this?
[03:08:01] <cradek> a tabletop stepper mill doesn't really need mesa hardware
[03:08:06] <Tom_itx> ok
[03:08:10] <pcw_home> Probably just a parallel port card
[03:08:17] <cradek> they're usually so slow and low power it doesn't matter
[03:08:35] <andypugh> 7i43 is a nice upgrade from p-port.
[03:08:38] <cradek> yeah, just get a pc with a parallel port and use software step generation unless you have some special requirements
[03:08:48] <Tom_itx> what sort of feedrated can be expected from steppers?
[03:08:54] <Tom_itx> feedrates*
[03:08:56] <andypugh> But mainly because 48 IO is much more useful that 16
[03:09:00] <cradek> andypugh: trade simplicity for EPP problems
[03:09:10] <cradek> Tom_itx: that question has no answer
[03:09:16] <Tom_itx> i know
[03:10:23] <pcw_home> Weve had almost 0 trouble with motherboard parallel ports EPP wise, PCI cards are the trouble
[03:10:27] <andypugh> Well, in my limited experience EPP and 7i43 has just worked. I believe it "just" works with he MD de-jour (D510MO) too, now.
[03:10:34] <cradek> pcw_home: ah
[03:10:52] <cradek> onboard parports even sometimes work with the pluto :-)
[03:11:21] <andypugh> Blimey!
[03:11:30] <cradek> sorry, I'm just burnt out from the emc-users thread - I've never used an EPP based board, mesa or otherwise
[03:11:46] <pcw_home> I'm hoping Sebastian can get the Lava card working, its nice hardware wise
[03:11:56] <cradek> it would be great to have a known-good one
[03:12:14] <andypugh> I like the 7i43. very cheap, plenty of IO, very simple wiring (put the card in the box with the drives)
[03:12:45] <pcw_home> the fact that it doesn't have the registers at base + 400 may through something off
[03:12:52] <Tom_itx> their site isn't the easiest to navigate
[03:12:57] <Emcrules_Laptop> No issues with my EPP and 7i43 but not lava as far as i know
[03:13:43] <pcw_home> the 7I80 will be the same as 7I43 but 72 I/O (spartan6)
[03:14:31] <Emcrules_Laptop> Whoa NICE!!!! What elese is in the pipeline
[03:15:00] <andypugh> My problem with the Mesa website is that it is awfully difficult to post links to individual devices (even classes requires one to open frame in new window then copy the link)
[03:15:56] <cradek> IMO the whole mesa website should be replaced by a list of what works with emc2
[03:16:01] <pcw_home> More and better serial I/O expanders, more serial drivers a couple more FPGA cards some with integrated motion I/O
[03:16:10] <Tom_itx> cradek i tend to agree
[03:17:00] <andypugh> I wonder if the 7i80 will work with the existing emc2 drivers without mods? I think it might.
[03:17:04] <Tom_itx> or a chart showing what works with what
[03:18:06] <andypugh> pcw_home: Any feel for what proportion of your kit ends up in EMC2 systems? Mu guess is it isn't a vast proportion.
[03:18:38] <cradek> pcw probably has a better idea how many emc2 users there are than I do
[03:19:18] <pcw_home> Depends on the card, 5I20s I think as many as 2/3 have gone to EMC users (about 1200)
[03:19:44] <cradek> awesome
[03:19:59] <cradek> I have ... 3
[03:20:22] <cradek> 0.25% of them, haha
[03:20:49] <andypugh> That's a lot of emc2 users. Guessing that we have many times that in p-port users and adding in the Pico dudes, there are probably dozens of machines out there!
[03:21:06] <pcw_home> Higher end stuff goes elsewhere
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[03:21:42] <Tom_itx> i get from the talk one of you is part of mesa?
[03:22:12] <pcw_home> Yep
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[03:22:54] <danimal_garage> does anyone know how to make it so when i use tool touch off, it changes the tool offset for the tool offset instead of the tool number?
[03:23:02] <cradek> pcw is the robotic mesa engineer - none of us have every actually seen him - I think he isn't quite human
[03:23:10] <danimal_garage> for example, i use gang tooling in my lathe, so they all use the same tool number, but i use different tool offsets for all of them
[03:23:14] <danimal_garage> like t7m6 g43h7, g43h8, g43h9, etc
[03:23:23] <danimal_garage> when i use tool touch off, it changes it for tool offset 7 only, even if i do g43h8 in mdi before i touch it off
[03:23:55] <cradek> danimal_garage: sorry, no easy way to do that
[03:24:13] <Tom_itx> cradek, most of those types aren't
[03:24:19] <danimal_garage> bummer
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[03:24:40] <danimal_garage> cradek, the shizuoka is officially servo powered now
[03:24:59] <cradek> danimal_garage: do you have a turret too, or is it purely one gang?
[03:25:03] <danimal_garage> 300ipm, and the accep is 15
[03:25:08] <danimal_garage> i have a turret too
[03:25:11] <danimal_garage> on my hnc
[03:25:17] <danimal_garage> accel*
[03:25:21] <cradek> so more than one tool per turret position?
[03:25:25] <danimal_garage> yes
[03:25:51] <andypugh> I think touch-off is a gui-version of G10 L10. I am not sure if knowing that helps
[03:25:57] <cradek> make your ladder modulo, so T1, T9, T17 are all the same turret position
[03:26:27] <cradek> that's how I have mine for this reason
[03:26:39] <cradek> also solves the 'spins forever' problem if you ask for T>8
[03:26:42] <danimal_garage> cradek, will it still go to the tool change position like it does if you have a t#ms even if the tool is already loaded?
[03:26:59] <cradek> yes if you have it set to go to tool change position
[03:27:00] <danimal_garage> t#m6*
[03:27:06] <danimal_garage> crap
[03:27:14] <danimal_garage> trying to avoid that
[03:27:15] <cradek> I like to use the tool change at g30 option
[03:27:34] <cradek> well just use T17M6 during setup - in your program you can still use G43H17
[03:28:11] <danimal_garage> i wish it wouldnt go to the tool change position if the tool is already loaded.
[03:28:31] <danimal_garage> no possible way to change that, huh?
[03:28:32] <cradek> I think it's correct behavior to do the move no matter what
[03:28:58] <cradek> you want the position after tool change to be predictable, so you can do a safe entry
[03:29:00] <danimal_garage> it doesnt do it on any commercial machine i've ran
[03:30:02] <cradek> interesting
[03:30:46] <andypugh> But were they set to toolchange at G30, or a different type of toolchange?
[03:31:00] <danimal_garage> well sometimes i break up thew program so i can re-run a finish op. If i do that, i generally have a tool change after the m01. it would be nice if it didnt go to the tool change position after the roughing op if the tool is already loaded
[03:31:33] <cradek> sometimes I'll write /TnM6 for this reason
[03:31:48] <cradek> very easy to work around...
[03:31:59] <danimal_garage> assuming you remember the block delete
[03:32:12] <cradek> you'll remember pretty soon :-)
[03:32:21] <danimal_garage> i run mass production, i need it as idiot proof as possible
[03:32:27] <andypugh> I can see it would be nice if it didn't, and time when it would be bad if it didn't.
[03:32:49] <cradek> always doing the same thing = more idiot proof, in my mind
[03:33:12] <danimal_garage> not when you're drinking a beer and watching netflix with your headphones on
[03:33:26] <danimal_garage> :)
[03:33:31] <cradek> I'm having trouble following your arguments... :-P
[03:33:37] <danimal_garage> haha
[03:33:51] <cradek> hm, beer.
[03:34:00] <danimal_garage> basically i'm a slacker and i want the machine to make up for my laziness, but still be efficient
[03:34:08] <danimal_garage> make sense?
[03:34:25] <cradek> ...
[03:34:26] <danimal_garage> or make up for my lack of attention
[03:34:30] <danimal_garage> i mean
[03:34:48] <andypugh> I side with Cradek here, if the program assumes that the tool comes in from point P after toolchange, even if the toolchange is skipped due to a run-from-line, entering from point P is right.
[03:34:50] <cradek> you want it to be predictable, safe, and also read your mind
[03:35:05] <cradek> and fast
[03:35:18] <danimal_garage> in a nut shell cradek
[03:35:22] <danimal_garage> :)
[03:35:29] <cradek> ok then, at least now I understand what you want.
[03:35:31] <Tom_itx> who's the nut?
[03:35:36] <andypugh> back to option "P" for psychic
[03:35:52] <danimal_garage> all i'm saying is that it would be nice to have the option to skip the toolchange via some sort of parameter
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[03:35:56] <cradek> Tom_itx: no, the question is exactly what kind of nut each of us is
[03:36:10] <cradek> danimal_garage: /
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[03:36:21] <andypugh> Definitely a ginger nut here
[03:36:36] <danimal_garage> andy, you're a red head?
[03:36:56] <andypugh> I was, tending to grey now
[03:37:01] <danimal_garage> ha
[03:37:19] <danimal_garage> yea, me too, and i'm not even 30 yet
[03:37:32] <danimal_garage> i've been going grey since my early 20's
[03:37:38] <cradek> wait you guys still have hair?
[03:37:42] <danimal_garage> very slowly fortunately
[03:37:57] <danimal_garage> yes, which makes me think i'm adopted
[03:38:03] <cradek> haha
[03:38:11] <danimal_garage> my whole family was bald by my age
[03:38:23] <andypugh> Yeah, it grows perpendicular to my head to arbitrary length, but still all there.
[03:38:25] <elmo40> cradek: hi. I asked a question a while back, was knocked offline (daughter closed all chat windows... grr) didn't know if you replied or not
[03:38:26] <danimal_garage> i still have all of it
[03:38:29] <elmo40> cradek: threading is my intention with the encoder. I have a variable speed 1Hp DC motor (analog speed control, came out of a treadmill ;) ) I would like to find a way to have EMC control everything. At the very least I will control the speed manually and EMC will adjust the X&Z accordingly
[03:39:00] <cradek> elmo40: that'll work fine. you just have to set the spindle speed such that x/z can keep up. manual control is fine.
[03:39:12] <elmo40> nice.
[03:39:24] <cradek> that's why you have an encoder - it just follows it.
[03:39:33] <elmo40> now, can I do this with a par port? or do I need one of those 5i22 or something
[03:39:57] <cradek> it's hard, but possible, to read an encoder with a parport.
[03:40:20] <pcw_home> beware of manual analog controls (they may not be isolated from the motor power)
[03:40:34] <elmo40> pcw_home: ok?
[03:40:36] <andypugh> elmo40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4q8gCpeY1A I am actually cranking the spindle by hand there. motors are off.
[03:40:51] <elmo40> andypugh: I remember that vid.
[03:41:00] <danimal_garage> thats cool
[03:41:11] <danimal_garage> i still need to find an encoder for my spindles
[03:41:26] <danimal_garage> CSF would be nice
[03:41:37] <danimal_garage> especially when cutting ti
[03:41:56] <cradek> you don't actually need an encoder for css
[03:41:58] <elmo40> mine came off of a milling machine with a spindle that cranks to 12,000RPM
[03:42:03] <elmo40> I am not too worried about it keeping up ;)
[03:42:06] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Make one, I did. http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5437112859354194098
[03:42:30] <danimal_garage> sorry, i ment IPR instead if IPM
[03:42:54] <danimal_garage> andy, for $50, i'll buy one, but that is cool
[03:42:56] <cradek> you don't need an encoder for fpr either
[03:43:06] <danimal_garage> cradek: really??
[03:43:12] <danimal_garage> i thought you did
[03:43:38] <danimal_garage> do you have to do anything other than the g code?
[03:43:57] <andypugh> danimal_garage: You can't buy one with a 3" through-bore for $50
[03:43:59] <elmo40> sorry, what is ipm and fpr?
[03:44:00] <Tom_itx> what do you use to read that?
[03:44:31] <Tom_itx> beam break or inductive pickup?
[03:44:35] <danimal_garage> andy, i dont need one, i just need to replace the existing resolver
[03:44:41] <cradek> you have to generate motion.spindle-speed-in (can just be a loopback from motion.spindle-speed-in I think)
[03:44:47] <cradek> assuming your spindle does what you tell it, it'll be close
[03:44:54] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Reflective opto
[03:44:57] <danimal_garage> ahhhh cool! thanks!
[03:45:04] <Tom_itx> andypugh did you make it?
[03:45:07] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5437113028782524642
[03:45:11] <Tom_itx> the opto circuit?
[03:45:13] <cradek> you only need an encoder (position mode) for threading
[03:45:28] <cradek> andypugh: that's sure nice
[03:45:44] <danimal_garage> cradek, i ditched the whole variable speed pulley system in the HNC and i'm using v belts now
[03:45:49] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, in fact that first pic is on top of my circuit diagram
[03:45:58] <Tom_itx> i saw that
[03:46:00] <danimal_garage> fixed ratio
[03:46:07] <cradek> danimal_garage: did you keep the two gears?
[03:46:15] <danimal_garage> cradek, yes
[03:46:18] <cradek> perfect
[03:46:24] <danimal_garage> works great
[03:46:29] <cradek> I have my varispeed "set" with a 2x4
[03:46:48] <danimal_garage> i did something similar but the belt slipped badly
[03:46:54] <elmo40> pcw_home: the separated motor power circuit... is that an issue? I know I have pics somewhere of it :P
[03:47:10] <danimal_garage> so i made some pulleys and bought some v belts
[03:48:01] <andypugh> Eek! 0347 here, need to sleep if I am going to achieve anything tomorrow.
[03:48:22] <danimal_garage> 25% reduction from the spindle on the "gearbox"
[03:48:55] <pcw_home> For manual control no, just beware of touching the pot
[03:48:57] <pcw_home> if you want EMC control it needs to be isolated somehow
[03:49:00] <danimal_garage> so 200rpm from the gearbox is 150rpm at the chuck
[03:49:31] <andypugh> Hmm. This Pic says so much about me: http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5565844821420049826
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[03:49:50] <pcw_home> (assuming its not isolated I don' t know if it is or not)
[03:49:58] <danimal_garage> i face off 4" diameter 6al4v titanium all day long, .04" DOC
[03:50:17] <danimal_garage> .015" per rev
[03:52:09] <pcw_home> What is that?
[03:52:41] <elmo40> pcw_home: it uses a PWM controller
[03:52:43] <andypugh> (Wohlhaupter boring head, caving light, new scientist magazine, royal yachting assoc VHF license, boxed set of Harry Potter books)
[03:53:31] <pcw_home> that boring head is somewhat overkill for a paperweight
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[03:53:56] <Tom_itx> funny the types of things that can become paperweights
[03:54:28] <andypugh> Have you ever handled one of them? They really are _lovely_
[03:54:30] <pcw_home> elmo40 is it line operated? I cant imagine a treadmill using transformer...
[03:56:47] <andypugh> Night all
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[03:57:05] <pcw_home> Night Andy
[03:58:45] <elmo40> pcw_home: it is a 1Hp DC motor.
[04:01:17] <elmo40> http://i.imgur.com/Xue9e.jpg
[04:01:36] * elmo40 is away for a bit...
[04:02:04] <elmo40> I do hope to control the speed with EMC2, if not then manual controlling is what I will have to live with
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[04:05:46] <pcw_home> Even if it not isolated it should be possible to control with EMC but you will need to isolate the control signal somehow
[04:07:12] <ftkalcevic> Is there a gcode to set the spindle override percentage? I can see G48/49/51, but they only enable/disable spindle override. I have a manual set on the lathe (drill) and I want to set the speed to 1000, then the spindle overried to 5%, then I can adjust it with my pendant.
[04:13:12] <pcw_home> elmo maybe you can get some interface info http://www.geminicontrols.com/products-frame.htm
[04:54:55] <cradek> ftkalcevic: nope, spindle override cannot be set to some value with a gcode.
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[10:02:23] <grandrew> hi all! how is it possible to export g-code from geda pcb so that emc2 can understand it as .ngc?
[10:04:59] <archivist> grandrew, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&id=PCB_Milling_And_Drilling_With_Cheap_And_Simple_Height-Probing&revision=2
[10:05:46] <grandrew> archivist, thanks!
[10:06:50] <archivist> !wench learn pcb milling is http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&id=PCB_Milling_And_Drilling_With_Cheap_And_Simple_Height-Probing&revision=2
[10:06:51] <the_wench> I have learnt pcb milling is http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&id=PCB_Milling_And_Drilling_With_Cheap_And_Simple_Height-Probing&revision=2
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[10:09:47] <drill> grandrew for milling odr drilling?
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[10:13:27] <grandrew> milling & drilling
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[10:19:04] <HDB10> <archivist> Hi there, found your program interesting last night and still studying it.
[10:19:58] <archivist> HDB10, iirc that was while it was still 4 axis and the B angle was some packing
[10:20:32] <HDB10> Hi psha, Getting to be a bit of a problem on here.
[10:21:10] <psha> рш
[10:21:11] <psha> hi
[10:21:12] <the_wench> hello psha, you have a question?
[10:21:20] <psha> the_wench: пыщпыщ!
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[10:27:09] <HDB10> <archivist> Have a question. I am rotating the A axis and finding a location that actually varies it position by sat 5 deg +- for example. I want to then move from the detected location say 20 Deg and then return to the original A axis settings ?
[10:27:41] <HDB10> Opps: sat say
[10:28:53] <archivist> A of typical rotaries have backlash my code only comes to a position in one direction usually
[10:29:38] <archivist> I over rotate and come back at the start and then only go one direction
[10:30:41] <HDB10> <archivist> not worried about backlash in the application as we can have +- 0.01 Deg no problem
[10:31:24] <archivist> else I just touch off at the start for my 0 angle
[10:32:17] <HDB10> Then how do you move say + 20 Deg ?
[10:32:56] <archivist> set relative mode g1 A 20
[10:33:21] <HDB10> And back again ?
[10:33:39] <HDB10> g1 A -20 ?
[10:33:45] <archivist> yes
[10:34:06] <HDB10> As simple as that :0)
[10:34:31] <archivist> actually I do g1 A-25 g1A5
[10:34:55] <archivist> as I have a crappy A
[10:36:27] <HDB10> This machine places a piece of rubber on glass and the problem is the rubber moves on the glass. So I detect the location of the rubber on the glass and run the next set of operations.
[10:37:28] <HDB10> I see your are taking up the back lash with the g1A5 ?
[10:38:13] <archivist> yup
[10:38:24] <HDB10> Starting to think with this stuff.
[10:39:00] <HDB10> I'll play some more in the morning ;-0
[10:39:09] <archivist> so you need to just add detected slip to you angle somewhere
[10:40:00] <HDB10> Yep and that varies depending on the tension on the rubber.
[10:40:46] * jared__ shuffles around.
[10:40:48] <HDB10> So I us G38.2 to find the location with a photo cell.
[10:41:08] jared__ is now known as Sairon
[10:43:41] <HDB10> <archivist> How long have you been using EMC2 ?
[10:51:00] <psha> HDB10: if you are using camera maybe this one will be useful for you http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Axis_Embed_Video
[10:53:56] <HDB10> Don't have an application for it at the moment but you never know.
[10:54:27] <Sairon> wow, yeah
[10:54:31] <Sairon> that is really cool.
[10:54:42] <HDB10> psha: How difficult is it to get a web site in your country ?
[10:57:36] <psha> site?
[10:57:37] <psha> domain?
[10:57:38] <psha> hosting?
[10:58:26] <psha> grommit promised to write better documentation about camunits-emc integration but it's not done yet ;)
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[11:09:08] <Sairon> reading about sumerian gods makes me want to play freeciv
[11:09:10] <Sairon> :)
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[11:20:59] <psha> Sairon: is it playable? :)
[11:21:16] <Sairon> eh?
[11:22:26] <psha> i mean most of FOSS games are not great :) surely with some exceptions like OpenTTD :)
[11:23:28] <Sairon> i like freeciv
[11:23:35] <Sairon> it's usually in the background
[11:23:48] <Sairon> it's relatively simple, really
[11:24:32] <Sairon> not the sort of thing that requires extensive graphics or what have you
[11:24:58] <Sairon> i'm not really a big game player, but i love history
[11:25:04] <Sairon> so i guess that makes it fun for me
[11:25:24] <psha> :)
[11:26:28] <Valen> theres TA: spring
[11:26:35] <Sairon> what's that?
[11:26:47] <Valen> total annihilation but in open source form
[11:26:49] <Valen> RTS
[11:27:00] <Sairon> oh gosh
[11:27:07] <Sairon> i'm totally lost when it comes to games
[11:27:26] <Sairon> i'm kinda pop-culture illiterate
[11:27:52] <Sairon> much to the horror/amusement of my wife
[11:28:17] <Valen> TA is about 10 years old now, so I don't know if its still "pop"
[11:28:25] <Sairon> ever so often she'll say, "we should watch <name of movie that alot of people have apparently seen>"
[11:28:26] <psha> i'm personaly fan of openttd - i've original dos TTD years ago but it's nothing compared to openttd
[11:28:28] <Sairon> and i reply
[11:28:32] <Sairon> "what's that?"
[11:28:38] <Sairon> and she stares at me blankly
[11:29:21] <Sairon> fair's fair, though
[11:29:44] <Sairon> when i mention that healthcare reform reminds me a bit of the gracci land reforms of rome
[11:30:15] <Sairon> and kinda makes me wonder if that opens the door for an american sulla and subsequent trouble...
[11:30:27] <Sairon> yeah, fair's fair
[11:32:05] <Sairon> incidentally, what is your involvment with emc (psha, Valen)?
[11:32:22] <Valen> use it on my mill
[11:32:32] <psha> hack on it ;)
[11:32:37] <Sairon> what sort of mill?
[11:33:05] <Valen> wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells and www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
[11:34:08] * Sairon hopes ubuntu won't die opening yet another browser tab.
[11:36:07] <Sairon> oh neat. how did the phenolic basalt work for you?
[11:36:51] <Valen> seems to be pretty good
[11:37:13] <Valen> cut some bits for a rocket with it today
[11:37:29] <Sairon> and you say it's cheaper than epxoy granite?
[11:37:34] <Valen> seems so
[11:37:43] <Valen> resin is ~$8 a kg
[11:40:52] <Sairon> i think that looks like some neat stuff
[11:41:02] <Valen> seems to do the stuff well
[11:41:08] <Sairon> especially for small shops/home
[11:41:19] <Valen> they use EG in high end machines
[11:41:31] <Valen> like 32KW german 5 axis mills
[11:42:30] <Sairon> yeah
[11:42:45] <Sairon> there's one american maker who licensed the technology, too
[11:42:53] <Sairon> although the name slips my mind right now
[11:43:46] <Sairon> whoa, wait
[11:43:56] <Sairon> you are doing your design work in rhino?
[11:44:21] <Valen> yeah
[11:44:40] <Sairon> how are you generating your g-code?
[11:44:50] <Valen> rhinocam and by hand
[11:45:06] <Sairon> hmpf. never heard of rhinocam
[11:45:19] <Sairon> i have a friend who does all his design work in rhino
[11:45:37] <Sairon> and i guess the manufacturers he works for have a hard time making the stuff he designs
[11:46:01] <Valen> why?
[11:46:04] <Sairon> that made me assume there wasn't an easy/good way to do it
[11:46:06] <Sairon> no idea
[11:46:19] <Sairon> i've never messed with it
[11:46:34] <Sairon> i've always done all my g-code by hand
[11:46:36] <Valen> rhinocam is pretty crap
[11:46:42] <Valen> at least version 1
[11:46:44] <Valen> cuts alot of air
[11:46:52] <Sairon> i'm sorta trying to learn mastercam right now
[11:47:01] <Sairon> but i get too busy actually making parts
[11:47:10] <Sairon> and it's faster for me to just code it up myself
[11:47:28] <Sairon> did rhinocam cost you any extra?
[11:47:37] <Valen> "yes"
[11:47:39] <Valen> *cough*
[11:48:42] <Sairon> heh
[11:49:16] <Sairon> cool stuff, nice looking parts
[11:49:31] <Valen> thanks, they look like crap in the photos
[11:49:46] <Sairon> yeah, that happens
[11:53:15] <Sairon> interesting stuff here
[11:53:49] <Sairon> a suggestion that the akkadian empire ended at a time coinciding with the collapse of the old kingdom in egypt
[11:54:21] <Sairon> and archaelogical evidence that the whole middle east suffered a dramatic climate change at that time
[11:54:49] <Sairon> leading to the theory that climate change produce famine and cultural change, which produced political change
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[12:08:44] <Sairon> oh, so i have an emc question...
[12:09:08] <Sairon> why doesn't it like the O10000 at the begining of my program?
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[12:14:05] <HDB10> <psha> I want someone to host a site for me ?
[12:14:45] <psha> how havy it is?
[12:15:03] <psha> tons of warez? :)
[12:15:13] <Valen> who wants a site hosted?
[12:15:30] <HDB10> Me
[12:16:09] <HDB10> Not heavy I want to post medical data on it.
[12:16:26] <psha> hm, any problems to host it in australia?
[12:16:27] <HDB10> Hio Valen :-)
[12:16:49] * Valen and HDB10 are both in aus
[12:17:18] * psha knows ;)
[12:17:39] <HDB10> Can post in the US but some of the data may not be appreciated in certain quarters .
[12:18:13] <Sairon> why not?
[12:19:18] <HDB10> Are there ant probs with it ?
[12:21:19] <psha> heh, i guess you may host your data here without any problems with law :D
[12:21:56] <psha> since laws here are only on paper and not enforced until somebody needs that and want to pay for it ;)
[12:25:58] <HDB10> I see so it's very open. We want 1 - 2 Gig space and the usual stuff. Any idea of cost per month ?
[12:27:02] <psha> shared hosting i guess?
[12:27:12] <HDB10> Yep
[12:27:59] <HDB10> Just a rough idea
[12:28:03] <psha> 3-5$/mo
[12:28:28] <HDB10> OK sounds good TKS
[12:29:35] <HDB10> psha another question please. I am using G38.2 to find a location say on the A axis which is say 205 Deg and I want to add say 20 Deg to it. How do I add to the value on the A axis please ?
[12:29:59] <psha> don't know ;) i'm not common with gcodes
[12:30:33] <HDB10> OK Thanks, Valen do you any ideas ?
[12:31:08] <Valen> use variables
[12:31:34] <Valen> probe to contact, use contact point as a variable and go to var + offset
[12:32:02] <HDB10> How do you assign the value of the A axis to the variable ?
[12:32:37] <Valen> it is done as part of the probe
[12:32:45] <Valen> it gets put into a fixed variable
[12:33:29] <HDB10> Is that a 506x value ?
[12:34:05] <Valen> nfi
[12:34:14] <Valen> sounds rightish
[12:35:31] <HDB10> OK so it will look var1 = 506x or something ?
[12:36:05] <HDB10> Var1 + 20 .
[12:36:05] <Valen> cant you just use the probe var directly?
[12:36:10] <Valen> yeah i spose
[12:36:16] <Valen> i don't know the details
[12:38:34] <HDB10> The A aix is rotary in Deg to 360. and the probe is a photo cell and it find it at say 200 to 230 for example and I want to add 20 deg to it and go there ?
[12:41:21] <jthornton> HDB10: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Expressions
[12:41:40] <jthornton> good morning psha
[12:42:55] <HDB10> Hi J Tks for that :-) will take a look at it.
[12:43:04] <psha> jthornton: good morning
[12:43:34] <psha> jthornton: i've working 'clean all' for docs ;)
[12:43:57] <psha> with french translation
[12:44:32] <psha> btw Francis told be he want to update docs shortly
[12:46:29] <jthornton> cool, I thought Francis disappeared from the face of the Earth :)
[12:49:04] <HDB10> <jthornton> After probing a point how can I assign the value of the A axis to a variable please ?
[12:49:23] <psha> i'll talk today to jeff about layout and maybe it'll be merged this in a couple of days
[12:50:09] <jthornton> psha: cool
[12:55:52] <jthornton> HDB10: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Number
[12:56:28] <jthornton> or really http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Numbered-Parameters
[13:00:18] <HDB10> Seeya Guy's I am pooped off to bed. Tks J I see how to do it now :-) Bye
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[13:27:09] <Tom_itx> logger[psha].
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[13:50:25] <Sairon> oi
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[14:10:56] <elmo40> io
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[14:12:30] <JT-Shop> elmo40: mine is a 2002 with about 140k miles on it
[14:13:12] <JT-Shop> it gets very little usage any more as I drive my Dad's van most of the time (24 MPG on the van)
[14:13:38] -!- tlab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[14:20:23] <Tom_itx> sun's a wastin... you better get that roof sheeted
[14:44:10] <JT-Shop> hi ho, hi ho it's up to the roof I go :)
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[15:07:27] <elmo40> mine is an 05 with 170k KM on it.
[15:07:38] <elmo40> horrible mileage... 14MPG or so
[15:07:43] <elmo40> I hate it
[15:07:46] <elmo40> should have bought a Ford!
[15:11:29] <Sairon> oi
[15:11:31] <Sairon> hello
[15:11:31] <the_wench> hello Sairon, you have a question?
[15:17:04] <JT-Shop> mine gets about 17MPG so not so bad for a big truck
[15:17:24] <JT-Shop> but I drive like a Grandma
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[15:32:58] <elmo40> looks as though Mach3 is shaping up like EMC! http://home.comcast.net/~cncwoodworker/Images/2010_Main.jpg
[15:33:54] <elmo40> using tabs, large area for display... some things I like, mind you.
[15:36:59] <JT-Shop> makes me dizzy to look at it LOL
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[15:40:21] <elmo40> I don't see a need for a persistent HOME buttons at the top. Once you home it you don't use again until you restart the machine. (well, in my case anyways)
[15:40:24] * JT-Shop is so glad to be done with the home made crane :)
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[16:01:41] <pcw_home> sounds.... shakey
[16:01:55] <Tom_itx> mach3 isn't opensource is it?
[16:05:29] <pcw_home> Its commercial but I think their Gcode interpreter is based on a early version of EMCs interpreter
[16:07:23] <Tom_itx> i wish my old ver of smartcam did rotary cuts
[16:07:37] <JT-Shop> actually it worked very well with no shakey
[16:14:35] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Shop%20Addition/P1010075.jpg
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[16:27:11] <pcw_home> Hows the weather? looks dry at least
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[16:42:56] <JT-Shop> today and tomorrow is great Monday is supposed to suck
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[17:38:32] <pcw_home> Well thats convenient
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[18:12:48] <elmo40> anyone want to make their own stepper control board? http://www.dakeng.com/u2.html
[18:13:15] <elmo40> looks interesting... it is for unipolar steppers
[18:13:29] <andypugh> unipolar is so 1970s
[18:18:40] <elmo40> :P
[18:19:30] <archivist> unipolar is much lower power and easier to lose steps
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[18:43:25] <JT-Shop> not me...
[18:57:31] <Sairon> me either
[18:57:33] <Sairon> ")
[18:57:37] <Sairon> eh, whatever
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[19:16:29] <danimal_garage> hola
[19:18:03] <Sairon> hi
[19:18:03] <the_wench> hello Sairon, you have a question?
[19:22:53] <Tom_itx> elmo40, i considered it
[19:23:00] * Tom_itx shudders to think of using a pic though
[19:23:25] <danimal_garage> damn, electrical enclosures are so expensive
[19:23:52] <danimal_garage> probably $400 for a cheap one in the size i need
[19:24:15] <Tom_itx> 200A?
[19:26:14] <Sairon> hmmm
[19:26:32] <Sairon> so, i have two ballscrews
[19:26:40] <Sairon> any suggestions on what to make?
[19:26:45] <danimal_garage> a lathe
[19:27:14] <Sairon> i should mention...
[19:27:17] <Sairon> they are around 150 mm
[19:27:25] <Sairon> so, something small
[19:27:26] <danimal_garage> a small lathe
[19:27:27] <Sairon> real small
[19:27:29] <Sairon> lol
[19:27:35] <Sairon> good point
[19:29:39] <Sairon> i'd be able to make relatively wide but short parts
[19:30:03] <Sairon> odd question:
[19:30:12] <Sairon> anyone know where to find kits for making motors?
[19:30:31] <Sairon> i don't know the first thing about electric motors, but i'd like to learn
[19:30:34] <Sairon> like to make some
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[19:37:37] <coldelectrons> I'm really starting to warm up to cutter comp
[19:38:20] <coldelectrons> I've attributed most of my previous trouble with cutter deflection
[19:38:56] <coldelectrons> ebony and ivory can be hard stuff
[19:39:53] <andypugh> danimal_garage: I make my own, out of 20x20 and MDF
[19:40:35] <andypugh> Sairon: There was a thread on the mailing list, let me rummage
[19:41:50] <danimal_garage> i'm anal, i want a nema 13 enclosure
[19:42:02] <danimal_garage> i have coolant and chips flying everywhere
[19:42:31] <danimal_garage> i even get coolant in the nema 13 enclosres i already have
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[19:44:43] <andypugh> Sairon: http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=diy+brushless+kits
[19:46:19] <danimal_garage> i just realized i can use my spare servo drive for my toolchanger
[19:47:22] <danimal_garage> i can use a program stored in the drive so all i have to do is use the i/o to tell it what tool number to go to
[19:47:29] <danimal_garage> sweet
[19:47:30] <Sairon> am i the only here who detests coolant?
[19:47:46] <Sairon> i hate the smell of it.
[19:48:00] <danimal_garage> sairon, try running mass production on aluminum, stainless steel, and titanium without it
[19:48:55] <danimal_garage> i dont like it but i need it
[19:50:29] <Sairon> oh, right, wouldn't happen
[19:50:33] <Sairon> i dig that
[19:50:39] <Sairon> but i still don't like the smell
[19:51:00] <danimal_garage> mine doesnt smell
[19:51:17] <danimal_garage> if it smells, it's probably full of bacteria
[19:51:54] <danimal_garage> a fish tank air pump helps eliminate that
[19:51:57] <Sairon> it always smells funny to me, even if it's fresh
[19:52:14] <danimal_garage> i think trim-sol smells good lol
[19:52:21] <danimal_garage> when fresh anyways
[19:52:22] <Sairon> heh
[19:52:34] <Sairon> i'll have to try it
[19:52:41] <danimal_garage> looks good too
[19:52:54] <danimal_garage> kinda like what i'd imagine smurf blood would look like
[19:53:15] <Sairon> nice
[19:53:20] <Sairon> hmmm.
[19:53:25] <Sairon> maybe i have used it then
[19:53:36] <Sairon> i worked at a place that did alot of aluminum
[19:53:45] <Sairon> and the coolant was blue
[19:55:39] <danimal_garage> so is trim sol
[19:56:02] <danimal_garage> almost a seafoam green when you add water
[19:57:04] <John_f_> yes but trim sol makes cast iron turn black. do you know of anything like trim sol that wont turn cast iron black?
[19:57:52] <danimal_garage> it's probably not the trim sol, it's likely the water
[19:58:22] <danimal_garage> try changing the mixture
[19:58:49] <John_f_> I think I mixed it 10:1 which is already pretty strong
[19:59:16] <danimal_garage> i dont know, i dont cut cast iron
[19:59:30] <danimal_garage> my ways are all chrome, so it doesnt effect them
[19:59:54] <John_f_> yes but when you take your vise off the table wont there be a big black spot?
[20:01:05] <andypugh> Mobil do a straight oil coolant. In fact they suggest putting it in the gearbox, coolant sump and way-lube pot. That way there is no tramp oil problem.
[20:01:21] <andypugh> I think that is what JT has in his Hardinge.
[20:03:27] <danimal_garage> i run straight oil in my hardinge
[20:03:32] <danimal_garage> i hate oil
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[20:03:48] <danimal_garage> it smokes and it cant just be blown off with an air hose
[20:04:09] <danimal_garage> i'm going to a water solulable when i run out of the oil
[20:04:10] <andypugh> I have heard people recommend Castrol ClearEdge, but I have not found an affordable source.
[20:04:46] <danimal_garage> screw the ways, i'd rather not choke to death on smoke from the oil
[20:05:28] <archivist> insufficient oil, shouldnt get that hot
[20:05:52] <archivist> says me having fun earlier with smoking oil :)
[20:08:20] <Sairon> yeah.. heh
[20:08:28] <Sairon> i smoked some oil this week
[20:08:37] <danimal_garage> it's good oil and i use plenty of it
[20:08:51] <Sairon> took a little too much with a tool that was a little too worn
[20:08:54] <danimal_garage> however i'm cutting titanium on a lathe that is a bit too small for it
[20:08:57] <coldelectrons> You boys with the big toys have all the fun
[20:09:31] <coldelectrons> I'm not yet to the point of putting my Taig into a shroud so I can use coolant jets :)
[20:09:42] <archivist> went to a talk where the coolant qty was discussed in respect to carbide, if you dont flood cool you can cause cracks in the carbide, dry is then better than little coolant
[20:09:43] <Sairon> oh, Taig
[20:09:55] <Sairon> do those work as well as they look?
[20:10:14] <danimal_garage> i flood the crap out of it, my lathe is enclosed
[20:10:29] <coldelectrons> Sairon: I'll let you know, once I replace the spindle belt drive
[20:10:37] <Sairon> what happened?
[20:11:02] <coldelectrons> The stock belt is really thin and sensitive to tensioning
[20:11:23] <Sairon> does it hold size pretty well?
[20:11:26] <Sairon> etc
[20:11:41] <Sairon> i've never used a machine that small, but i'm curious
[20:11:58] <Sairon> i'd be willing to put something like that in my spare bedroom
[20:12:05] <Sairon> given an enclosure
[20:12:07] <coldelectrons> So far, I've been doing circuit boards and inlays - working with really small cutters
[20:12:26] <Sairon> hmmm
[20:12:36] <Sairon> work good for circuit boards, i take it?
[20:12:54] <skunkworks> yay - feed hold button works
[20:13:03] <coldelectrons> It does alright, but could really do with some anti-backlash nuts - adjusting the nuts in annoying
[20:13:46] <coldelectrons> The other problem is that dealers usually sell it with either underpowered steppers, or steppers that are undersized
[20:14:41] <coldelectrons> I've just recently gotten myself a Gecko G540, and the difference is night and day vs. the drivers I have been using
[20:15:18] <Sairon> i used to make precision (20nm range) positioning equipment
[20:15:31] <Sairon> a different part of the company made the motors, so never learned how that worked
[20:15:34] <danimal_garage> i had one of my chineese leadshine amps act up so i replaced it with a gecko and the gecko kept missing steps
[20:15:41] <Sairon> but having done that, i'd like make some small machines
[20:16:02] <Sairon> i know nothing about the electronics involved in this stuff
[20:16:12] <danimal_garage> stepper drive i mean, not amp
[20:16:19] <Sairon> my big goal for the year is to learn about it
[20:16:34] <danimal_garage> turns out the leadshine drive only needed some heat sink grease
[20:16:48] <andypugh> I knew nothing about motors and electronics when I started this project.
[20:17:09] <andypugh> Now I know 5x as much :-)
[20:18:10] <coldelectrons> danimal: I'm currently over at a friends, using a custom machine with Gecko 201s
[20:18:29] <danimal_garage> i have the 203x or something like that
[20:18:40] <coldelectrons> danimal: signal timing paramaters are something to pay attention to
[20:19:01] <coldelectrons> s/maters/meters
[20:19:09] <danimal_garage> it was just too small
[20:19:26] <danimal_garage> it was underrated for the motors i was using
[20:19:38] <danimal_garage> but so was the leadshine
[20:20:17] <danimal_garage> and the motors didnt work well with the amount of microstepping the gecko had. the leadshine was adjustable
[20:21:16] <coldelectrons> Sometime I'd like to get my hands on some of those Vexta 5-phase steppers, just to play with
[20:21:40] <coldelectrons> So much to do, so little time
[20:24:43] <andypugh> This is possibly really cheap, but I have no idea what it is... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CYMATIX-MOTOR-BRUSHLESS-SPINDLE-RESOLVER-CYM3532-/180590954621
[20:24:54] <danimal_garage> i'm just glad i finally got servos on the mill
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[20:28:44] <coldelectrons> I'd love to go to servos
[20:29:05] <coldelectrons> but they may be overkill for me
[20:29:29] <danimal_garage> i dont know why i'm spending all this time to make a fancy pannel to mount my servo drives on when i dont even have an enclosure yet. It's likely this pannel wont fit the enclosure i get anyways
[20:29:30] <andypugh> Undersized servos are worse than steppers. Just something to bear in mind
[20:29:46] <danimal_garage> in what way andypugh?
[20:30:12] <andypugh> The same problems, and more expensive :-)
[20:30:35] <danimal_garage> if they can move the machine, i cant imagine a closed loop system can be worse
[20:30:51] <andypugh> No, if they move the machine then they are not undersized.
[20:31:10] <danimal_garage> mine are technically undersized i would think
[20:31:16] <andypugh> I tried some 100W servos in place of my steppers, and they didn't move the machine.
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[20:31:22] <danimal_garage> ahh
[20:31:39] <andypugh> Similar physical size and power.
[20:32:10] <danimal_garage> mine move the machine, but i cant get max velocity out of them because there is too much inertia and it cant accel/deccel fast enough, it overshoots.
[20:32:25] <John_f_> I think it is torque that you need to consider not power
[20:32:47] <danimal_garage> mine have half the torque of the steppers i replaced
[20:33:14] <danimal_garage> but they move 3 times faster
[20:33:21] <John_f_> that could be a problem unless you gear with the timing belts
[20:33:28] <andypugh> Steppers get sold on holding torque, though, which isn't terribly relevant
[20:33:42] <John_f_> my bridegeport has 2:1 gearing on the servos
[20:34:03] <danimal_garage> John_f_, what sized servos?
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[20:34:29] <John_f_> 3.2 NM 2500 rpm (peak torque)
[20:34:43] <andypugh> Any suggestions how to clean out my coolant sump? It has about a 1/2" of tramp oil and generic goop in it. (I am not sure it has ever run with coolant)
[20:35:47] <John_f_> danimal_garage: actually 3.2 NM continuous stall torque
[20:35:51] <archivist> take the tank to a steam cleaner
[20:35:57] <pcw_home> that CYMATIX spindle look interesting but 0 specs
[20:36:30] <danimal_garage> mine are 39in/lbs
[20:36:33] <danimal_garage> 3000rpm
[20:36:53] <andypugh> archivist: It is in the machine basw
[20:37:12] <andypugh> pcw_home: Looks to be water cooled?
[20:37:16] <danimal_garage> so yours are about 460ozin, mine are like 680ozin
[20:37:33] <danimal_garage> what's your ipm on your bridgeport John_f_?
[20:37:33] <archivist> one of the high pressure water lances maybe
[20:38:06] <John_f_> 200 rapid
[20:38:15] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[20:38:20] <andypugh> archivist: I was hoping to remove the goop, not spray it over the rest of the workshop and both motorcycles.
[20:38:31] <archivist> :)
[20:38:40] <danimal_garage> i was considering gear reduction but i dont want to loose velocityt
[20:38:46] <danimal_garage> i'm at 300ipm now
[20:39:02] <andypugh> Probably need some sort of wet-vac
[20:39:08] <pcw_home> Servo motors often have about 3X peak torque so 39 in/lbs may be 120 in/lbs peak
[20:39:21] <archivist> andypugh, only other option is dissolve gunk
[20:39:36] <andypugh> It's fairly fluid
[20:39:36] <danimal_garage> pcw_home, thanks, the 39in/lb was rms
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[20:39:55] <danimal_garage> i think peak was quite a bit higher
[20:40:19] <pcw_home> Thats what I was thinking buy a vacuum at a thrift store. pack it with rags clean you tank and toss the vaccum...
[20:40:55] <pcw_home> peak is what to compare to step motors
[20:41:01] <danimal_garage> pcw_home, how about steppers? the ones i took off said 1300oz/in... is that likely max? there's no data online since the motors are so old
[20:41:01] <John_f_> 3x peak torque for servos is a huge advantage over steppers
[20:41:44] <pcw_home> max at slow speeds
[20:42:07] <danimal_garage> hmm guess i'm not too far off with the servo motors then
[20:43:14] <danimal_garage> it was kind of an impulse buy on ebay, i took a chance on them since they were pretty cheap
[20:43:52] <danimal_garage> figured worse case scenario i could resell them
[20:44:16] <andypugh> 1300oz.in is 6.8 lbs/ft or about 10Nm, which is pretty beefy.
[20:44:46] <danimal_garage> andypugh, yea, but they tapped out at 100ipm
[20:45:03] <danimal_garage> and SLOW acceleration
[20:51:01] <andypugh> Hmm, this should empty my sump.. http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29430/Van-Car-Accessories/Mechanics-Tools/Laser-Oil-Suction-Gun
[20:51:17] <andypugh> Not going to be a fun job, which is why it isn't done, at all.
[20:52:11] <andypugh> Secondary question, I wonder where I can get some 1/4" UNC allen bolts on a Sunday?
[20:53:04] <andypugh> (I suppose I have a lathe, I could re-thread some M6 :-)
[20:53:34] <pcw_home> a 39 in/lbs servo should have about 117 in/lbs peak capability or 1872 in/oz not surprising it outruns your step motors
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[20:53:51] <psha> andypugh: hm, why it's 'Laser'? :)
[20:54:09] <andypugh> psha: It's a (cheap) tool brand.
[20:54:49] <danimal_garage> pcw_home, yea, i just kinda guessed, but glad they worked out
[20:55:53] <danimal_garage> i'm definitely not a brain scientist or rocket surgeon when it comes to that stuff
[20:55:53] <psha> ah, thanks :)
[20:57:45] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Reminded me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I
[20:59:52] <danimal_garage> lol
[21:01:38] <danimal_garage> hey how come my servo drive manual says when running off of single phase, derate them 33% for 115vac and 50% for 230vac. i know they should be derated if you're not using 3 phase, but why do you derate them more with 230v? i would think it would be the other way around
[21:01:54] <danimal_garage> so i'm guessing i should stick with 115vac?
[21:02:10] <Tom_itx> or install 3 phase
[21:02:48] <John_f_> longer conduction angle at 115V?
[21:03:01] <John_f_> for the rectifers
[21:03:04] <coldelectrons> ...that derating doesn't sound right
[21:03:11] <andypugh> SOunds like a technical answer, what does it mean?
[21:03:45] <coldelectrons> for similar voltages, you have 1.73 (sqrt(3)) times more power with 3phase
[21:03:54] <Tom_itx> it means they will conduct 240 deg instead of 120 per phase
[21:04:06] <andypugh> Why?
[21:04:12] <John_f_> The amount of time in the AC cycle that the rectifers are actually conducting
[21:04:20] <andypugh> I guess it rather depends on what you are comparing with what.
[21:04:41] <John_f_> they are charging a capacitor so the conduction angle is small.
[21:05:19] <andypugh> Yes, but why does 240V single phase have a shorter conduction time than 115?
[21:05:58] <Tom_itx> per phase
[21:06:05] <andypugh> ( I am assuming here that the drive just runs at a lower peak DC bus voltage at 115 rather than 230)
[21:06:56] <John_f_> andypugh: you may be right the conduction times may be about the same. I was only trying to thind of a possible answer
[21:07:11] <danimal_garage> i wonder if it's a missprint
[21:07:38] <danimal_garage> major missprint if so
[21:07:48] <andypugh> Ignore it, run them till they smoke, then back off a bit :-)
[21:07:50] <coldelectrons> that's entirely possible - technical writers for catalogs aren't necessarily that technical
[21:08:05] <danimal_garage> let the smoke out!
[21:10:54] <coldelectrons> Tighten 'till it cracks, then back off a quarter turn :)
[21:11:07] <danimal_garage> lol
[21:12:28] <John_f_> I think the RMS ripple current in the bus caps will be higher at 240V single phase. I think the recifier conduction time per cycle will be higher because the voltage is higher and the capcitors will charge more quickly
[21:13:11] <John_f_> If you can beef up the recitfers and bus caps you should be able to ingore the derating
[21:14:02] <John_f_> Opps I meant to say that at 240V the condcution time of the rectifers will be shorter
[21:14:30] <John_f_> because the caps will charge more quickly
[21:14:54] <John_f_> that is why the RMS ripple current in the caps will be higher.
[21:15:32] <John_f_> Of course, I would have to simulate this to be sure.
[21:16:28] <andypugh> You can often couple the buses together on matched drives, which might be a good idea.
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[21:18:14] <John_f_> coupling the buses would help except in the case where all axes are max loaded at the same time
[21:18:43] <andypugh> Which would be pretty unusual in a machine tool
[21:18:46] <pcw_home> Often the ripple current in the capacitors is the limitation (much lower with 3 phase)
[21:18:55] <coldelectrons> hm, the rectifiers don't really change conduction time - 60Hz is 60Hz
[21:18:56] <coldelectrons> At a higher voltage, they don't have pull as much current
[21:19:16] <John_f_> average current yes but not peak
[21:19:56] <coldelectrons> And at a higher voltage, the inverter section doesn't have to conduct at long (PWM) to deliver as much power
[21:20:31] <coldelectrons> Maybe the derating is based on switching times and heating of the power MOSFETs/IGBTs
[21:20:40] <John_f_> yes but we are talking about the converter (input side) not the inverter
[21:27:22] <andypugh> Actually, we don't know what the derating is based on.
[21:29:04] <John_f_> andypugh: agreed!
[21:29:44] <andypugh> It might even be based on different markets. (115V countries and 230V countries)
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[21:30:51] <coldelectrons> Is that supposed to stop us from speculating and comparing the size of our slide-rules?
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[21:38:55] <psha> bb all
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[21:41:13] <danimal_garage> so how do you guys figure out wire gaging? i need to wire my amps and i got some stuff to go to the distribution block, now i need to go from the distribution block to the amps, which is about a foot of cable. is 18 gage good enough for that? they draw about 6 amps max rms
[21:41:26] <danimal_garage> sorry, i know it's a noob question
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[21:43:18] <paul11211> hi i'm new not sure what i'm doing, but I have a question about output pins in stepconfig i need 5v enable signal how do i go about it
[21:43:23] <John_f_> maybe start here http://www.armstrongssupply.com/wire_chart.htm
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[21:43:31] <danimal_garage> i found a calculator, it said 14ga
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[21:44:17] <John_f_> if you change the gage by three numbers the area will half or double depending on the direction
[21:44:54] <John_f_> I generaly figure 14 AWG is good for 15 amps
[21:45:01] <paul11211> 18gauge is fine for 6 amps
[21:45:04] <John_f_> you can push it higher if you want
[21:45:29] <andypugh> I don't even understand AWG
[21:45:46] <JT-Shop> it's some funny English term I think :)
[21:45:48] <John_f_> American Wire Gauge
[21:46:03] <JT-Shop> brought over on a sailing ship I think
[21:46:42] <danimal_garage> thanks guys
[21:46:50] <andypugh> We had SWG.
[21:46:54] <danimal_garage> it's only 1 foot of cable
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[21:47:28] <danimal_garage> i had the amps running on 20 feet of it when i was testing them :)
[21:47:51] <andypugh> paul11211: Anyway, back to your original question: There is an amp-enable signal available as an option in the stepconf pin selection tab.
[21:48:15] <norm_> howdy folks!
[21:48:21] <paul11211> thanks andy
[21:49:29] <norm_> wondering if anyone can help a noob out with an mesa 5i20 pci using emc install?
[21:50:00] <andypugh> Have you found pncconf?
[21:50:55] <John_f_> norm_: just ask your question
[21:52:31] <coldelectrons> danimal: Get an Ugly's reference book - smaller and cheaper than NFPA 70
[21:52:34] <norm_> yes, ran through that and have a hal file - does the hal install the prope firmware on the card or is that done manually?
[21:52:40] <coldelectrons> by NEC, smallest circuit rating is 15A, and you use 14AWG
[21:53:01] <andypugh> The HAL should install the firmware you selected in pncconf.
[21:53:14] <andypugh> I am not sure how you are meant to figure out which firmware to use.
[21:53:36] <coldelectrons> If you are running over 100ft, then you start upsizing to overcome line resistance
[21:54:48] <coldelectrons> Google can find a bunch of lookup tables for wire capacity
[21:54:59] <norm_> awesome, c
[21:55:00] <norm_> awesome, c
[21:55:01] <norm_> ]
[21:55:04] <norm_> ]]
[21:55:34] <norm_> doh! dang cat!
[21:55:51] <andypugh> If you start emc2 then run dmesg, you will get a listing of which function has been allocated to each pin on your 5i20.
[21:56:11] <norm_> ah! ok - this makes a lot more sense
[21:57:17] <andypugh> Can't help you much with pncconf, I tend to hand-write HAL files.
[21:58:02] <andypugh> That way I get exactly the HAL file I typed (which is rarely the one I meant to type)
[21:58:14] <norm_> is there a way to test the 5i20 and config with out having it move a motor?
[21:58:36] <norm_> yeah that makes sense - prefer to use my own configs but for learning on this pncconf is handy for getting a place to learn from
[21:59:08] <norm_> ie the mill is a retrofit and want to make sure things don't run away from us as we compelete and verify the setup and config
[21:59:59] <danimal_garage> norm, stepper or servo?
[22:00:08] <norm_> servo
[22:00:21] <danimal_garage> take the servo off the machine
[22:00:48] <andypugh> You can use a combination of halmeter, halscope and Show Hal Configuration to see if the HAL signals are doing what you expect, but once things are into the 5i20 you can only see them with multimeters and real scopes
[22:01:12] <andypugh> removing the belt or the coupling works, too.
[22:01:34] <danimal_garage> i would think you actually need the motors and encoders connected to tune it at all
[22:02:29] <norm_> gotcha - that makes sense - I think in our case we will disconnect the motors from the machine and clamp them on a work bench
[22:02:34] <andypugh> Yes, tuning is going to need it coupled, but making sure that the motors spin the right way to reduce error, etc, might be better without the motors coupled
[22:02:35] <pcw_home> You can check polarities without being connected to the machine
[22:03:19] <pcw_home> (to avoid run-away)
[22:03:19] <andypugh> It's very easy to have a motor run the wrong way to reduce the PID error, making it worse, making it faster, making it much worse....
[22:04:25] <danimal_garage> i got mine ballpark tuned before i put the motors on the machine
[22:04:54] <danimal_garage> then fine tuned them after
[22:05:22] <norm_> awesome thanks for the input - we will head down that route
[22:08:40] <norm_> if anyone is interested its an old CompuMill 2500 knee mill -> http://elnormo.net/cnc/photo.JPG
[22:10:56] <danimal_garage> dark photo, but looks a bit like my shizuoka
[22:15:31] <norm_> this is a slightly better one before the old blown controller was replaced http://elnormo.net/cnc/IMAG0072.jpg
[22:15:53] <danimal_garage> here's my shop: http://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/some-shop-photos/
[22:16:38] <danimal_garage> cool
[22:17:31] <coldelectrons> can you ship that USPS?
[22:18:19] <danimal_garage> ship what?
[22:18:26] <coldelectrons> Note to self: build a (un)loading dock
[22:18:43] <coldelectrons> danimal: sorry, not you.
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[22:20:46] <norm_> danimal - thats a sweet setup you have!
[22:21:12] <andypugh> Do the bike parts pay for that, or is it part hobby?
[22:21:12] <danimal_garage> thanks!
[22:21:36] <danimal_garage> yea, i make bike parts for a living
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[22:22:06] <danimal_garage> machines came before the bike parts though
[22:22:13] <danimal_garage> except the cnc lathe
[22:22:43] <Sairon> wait...
[22:22:49] <Sairon> like, pedal bike parts?
[22:22:55] <danimal_garage> yes
[22:23:03] <Sairon> oh.
[22:23:07] <danimal_garage> www.homebrewedcomponents.com
[22:23:11] <Sairon> wow, surprised that's not a china thing
[22:23:58] <danimal_garage> they make stuff in china too, but hardcore cyclists wouldnt run that crap
[22:24:33] <andypugh> I wonder where Shimano have their stuff made?
[22:24:55] <danimal_garage> japan
[22:25:30] <Sairon> so, you designed a toolchanger?
[22:25:45] <Sairon> er, pallet system
[22:27:08] <danimal_garage> the toolchangers are factory equipment, i just implimented them in EMC2
[22:27:54] <danimal_garage> i gutted all the electronics in the mill's toolchanger and replaced it with SSR's though. I control everything in ladder. It had it's own logic before, but it was flakey.
[22:28:35] <andypugh> Hmm, I now find myself wondering how BT toolholders are held in the toolchanger. I see that your tools sit on pins, in the drawbolt holes?
[22:30:40] <danimal_garage> no, they sit in pockets
[22:31:19] <danimal_garage> they're like little 1" diameter (approx) cups, about 1" deep.
[22:31:43] <danimal_garage> nmbt40 holders
[22:33:17] <andypugh> I had assumed they were gripped by the flange in the carousel, and in the changer arm. But then I can't see how the arm and carousel swap over.
[22:33:23] <n00b0dy> speaking of toolchange... for manual change... dremel/collete style .... just setup the tools before hand? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_tool_compensation.html
[22:34:16] <andypugh> You can if you can get a consistent insertion depth. (all the way to the bottom of the collet should work)
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[22:38:19] <n00b0dy> am i able to do this in emc vs editing the text file? (i'm feeling like a bing commercial) i think i might have came across something like this...
[22:39:28] <andypugh> The touch-off button does it, if you select "tool table" rather than G54 in the dropdown.
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[22:58:13] <n00b0dy> k sweet tyvm
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[23:21:47] <JT-Shop> salvage yards
[23:21:57] <JT-Shop> or are you looking for new?
[23:22:01] <danimal_garage> yea, they're all out around here unfortunately
[23:22:05] <danimal_garage> used is cool
[23:22:17] <danimal_garage> cheaper is best :)
[23:22:19] <JT-Shop> automationdirect has the best prices I've seen
[23:22:38] <danimal_garage> there's a few one ebay, new, for about $300 shipped
[23:22:44] <danimal_garage> nema 13
[23:22:54] <JT-Shop> you can come over and use my box brake and make one if you like :)
[23:22:57] <danimal_garage> ah, i havent looked there yet
[23:23:05] <danimal_garage> ha, i'd love to
[23:23:11] <danimal_garage> a bit far though
[23:24:00] <danimal_garage> i used to work for Pentair, which is the coorperation that owns hoffman enclosures
[23:24:16] <danimal_garage> i USED to get a huge discount, but i doubt i'd still get one
[23:24:21] <JT-Shop> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Enclosures
[23:26:13] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Try "rittal" as a search term on eBay
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[23:27:15] <danimal_garage> thanks JT-Shop, and andypugh
[23:28:43] <JT-Shop> np
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[23:33:49] <danimal_garage> i was looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1000x600x300-ENCLOSURE-W-B-PLATE-40X24X12-/150461076311?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item23082dd357
[23:34:18] <danimal_garage> 40x24x12"
[23:34:25] <danimal_garage> less than $300 shipped
[23:34:34] <danimal_garage> with the pannel
[23:35:34] <danimal_garage> what do you guys think?
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[23:36:03] <danimal_garage> i can fit my mobo, the servo drives, and mesa boards in there with room to spare
[23:37:40] <andypugh> Seems unnecessarily huge. But then I always try to squeeze stuff into too small boxes
[23:39:02] <danimal_garage> well i'll have 4 servo amps in there, they need breathing room. Plus contact blocks, wiring, mobo, power supply, mesa cards, SSr's, and VFD if there's room
[23:40:42] <danimal_garage> i have 9 SSR's, a timer, at least 5 other relays relays, a braking unit for the spindle's VFD, etc
[23:40:45] <paul11211> i would add the vfd they are noisy dvices
[23:41:00] <danimal_garage> noisy?
[23:41:14] <paul11211> emf
[23:41:20] <danimal_garage> as in electrical noise or audiable noise?
[23:41:22] <andypugh> VFD input filter wouldn't hurt.
[23:41:48] <andypugh> I have a spare, but that is no help to you.
[23:41:54] <paul11211> you can fillter in andout
[23:41:56] <andypugh> I ought to sell it on.
[23:41:57] <danimal_garage> oh i have a bunch
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[23:44:27] <paul11211> try holding a radio close to your vfd to check it
[23:45:31] <Emcrules_Laptop> Danimal: thats a good price just got a quote on a 48 x 36 x 12 for $700
[23:45:57] <danimal_garage> Emcrules_Laptop, yea, i thought it was reasonible
[23:50:54] <Emcrules_Laptop> any sugesstions for a replacment of imagebin.ca?
[23:51:19] <danimal_garage> imagebin.com?
[23:51:23] <danimal_garage> :)
[23:52:51] <JT-Shop> looks like a decent enclosure Dan
[23:54:30] <Emcrules_Laptop> imagebin.com seems down as well
[23:55:04] <JT-Shop> he sells a lot of stuff but has a few bad feedbacks
[23:55:48] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop, looks good enough
[23:55:58] <danimal_garage> i'll probably give it a shot