#emc | Logs for 2011-01-28

[00:02:33] <JT-Shop> all the trusses are up in the air YEA!
[00:03:34] <skunkworks> great!
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[00:04:42] <JT-Shop> I'm stoked, a buddy came by this afternoon and helped me get the last 9 up
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[02:10:06] <elmo40> cradek: threading is my intention with the encoder. I have a variable speed 1Hp DC motor (analog speed control, came out of a treadmill ;) ) I would like to find a way to have EMC control everything. At the very least I will control the speed manually and EMC will adjust the X&Z accordingly
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[02:29:46] <tfmacz> is there some documentation that outlines config changes in the latest emc? trying to get the new 10.04 emc install running with my old config files. i have added a bunch of hal stuff and some axis gui add ons.
[02:31:19] <tfmacz> the issue seems to be related to axis. a bunch of "waiting for s.axes"
[02:33:15] <tfmacz> was running 8.04
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[03:02:02] <seb_kuzminsky> tfmacz: i'm not sure what version of emc2 you're going from, but if it's 2.3, check this out: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.4
[03:05:58] <EmcRules_cad> Valen: you around?
[03:06:16] <Valen> a little
[03:06:32] <tfmacz> Thanks. It appears the nml file changes were hanging things up.
[03:06:47] <Tom_itx> too much beer makes you a little round
[03:08:03] <EmcRules_cad> Tom: Working on the beer thing right now!!!
[03:08:25] <EmcRules_cad> Valen: the grease was called "open synthetic gear grease"
[03:08:53] <Valen> interesting
[03:09:31] <EmcRules_cad> Apparently they dont stock it around me and takes about 3 days to get
[03:10:13] <Valen> I'll look into it, see what crops up
[03:11:10] <EmcRules_cad> If you get it? while your using it wear clothing you dont wish to keep. even if your wearing coveralls
[03:11:16] <Valen> lol
[03:11:34] <Valen> http://www.schaefferoil.com/322_gear_lube.html sounds good lol
[03:16:30] <EmcRules_cad> Just got a box from digikey!!! christmas all over again!!!
[03:17:40] <Tom_itx> the mailman dropped their catalog on my foot the other day. does that count?
[03:20:08] <EmcRules_cad> Nope thats harassment. That catalog is huge!
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[03:21:05] <Tom_itx> between that and mouser i could keep the fire going all winter
[03:21:39] <EmcRules_cad> LOL Dam they shipped me the wrong parts.
[03:22:33] <Tom_itx> that's odd from them
[03:23:43] <EmcRules_cad> Yeah I know double checked the website and packing slip part numbers are right just wrong part
[03:24:27] <Tom_itx> good thing, they're open 24/7
[03:24:42] <Tom_itx> i've called them at the oddest hours
[03:25:25] <EmcRules_cad> Yeah it's nice
[03:28:04] <EmcRules_cad> Now i just need all my mesa hardware!!
[03:29:46] <Valen> mmmm mesa
[03:30:40] <EmcRules_cad> My control box should be in soon as well. it's going to look sweet!!!
[03:31:18] <Tom_itx> stepper or servo?
[03:32:31] <EmcRules_cad> Whatever you want I designed it to work with steppers or servos just add or swap boards
[03:32:49] <Tom_itx> what's the difference .. advantage .. disadvantage between AC and DC servo?
[03:33:10] <EmcRules_cad> end user cost?
[03:33:39] <Valen> depends what you mean by AC servo
[03:33:43] <Valen> AC induction?
[03:33:57] <Valen> or permanent magnet
[03:34:08] <Tom_itx> brushless ac
[03:34:40] <Valen> the permanent magnet ones will generally have higher power for given inertia, and longer life
[03:34:40] <EmcRules_cad> Most installations of motion applications, cnc or not are mainly ac servo
[03:35:21] <EmcRules_cad> now and days
[03:35:33] <EmcRules_cad> back in the day dc was king
[03:36:10] <EmcRules_cad> drive technology has come a long way
[03:37:43] <EmcRules_cad> Working on a linear motor app right now pretty cool stuff
[03:39:06] <EmcRules_cad> http://www.festo.com/cms/en-ca_ca/12753.htm
[03:41:03] <Tom_itx> those just look $$$
[03:41:23] <EmcRules_cad> 8 grand to start
[03:44:23] <EmcRules_cad> But by the time you buy a servo motor and drive, linear guides , ball screws or something to transmit motion, machine brackets to hold all toghter. You could eat up that 8 grand pretty quick!!
[03:44:47] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:45:17] <Tom_itx> they cover different apps though. you wouldn't use these on some things that you would with the ballscrew setup
[03:45:48] <Tom_itx> i could see those as a nice fast pick and place app
[03:46:02] <Tom_itx> or assembly line stuff
[03:47:48] <EmcRules_cad> Yes and no. We currently use timing belts for long pick and place apps and ball scres for short ones. The nice thing about the linear motors is that you can have multiple motors moving on the same rail!!
[03:48:04] <Tom_itx> yeah
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[05:02:58] <danimal_garage> so the faster i feed my machine, the larger the ferror is, and it turns into a big wave on the hal scope as the velocity goes up
[05:03:16] <danimal_garage> how can i smooth that wave out?
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[06:16:31] <garage_seb> PCW, pcw_home: i'm wiring up the 7i37com
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[06:37:02] <danimal_garage> well 300ipm seems to be the cap for the y axis
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[06:41:38] <danimal_garage> does anyone leave the min ferror parameter out all together?
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[08:01:01] <HDB10> Cab anyone assist: I wish to add say 20mm to a current x axis say, x is at 102mm the result 122mm ?
[08:02:20] <HDB10> Could
[08:11:36] <archivist> define add to axis, or are you trying to understand touchoff
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[08:20:09] <HDB10> <archivist>I have the touchoff function working and I wish to add an offset and execute it .
[08:22:46] <archivist> look at g92
[08:25:07] <HDB10> OK qill do Thanks :0)
[08:26:48] <psha> G10 L2 X10
[08:26:54] <psha> X20
[08:26:57] <psha> or X-20 ;)
[08:28:03] <HDB10> Hi psha: I want to retain the axis settings ?
[08:32:03] <archivist> if hand writing g code I often have variable to do that sort of thing
[08:38:19] <HDB10> Something like this #1 = X next line G2 X [X+#1] what do you think ?
[08:40:43] <HDB10> The X as been set by homing it and I don't wish to change it.
[08:40:58] <psha> HDB10: touchoff won't change homing
[08:41:00] <psha> i guess
[08:43:18] <HDB10> I'll go try it on the machine and see what happens back in a few :-)
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[09:09:05] <HDB10> OK back again, How can I assign the current value of X to a variable say #1 and then : G01 X [#1] ?
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[09:28:51] <HDB10> archivist: How does one define a variable please ?
[09:32:25] <archivist> I use sensible names eg #<teeth>=30
[09:32:54] <archivist> or #<angle>=[360/#<teeth>]
[09:34:27] <archivist> often I will be swapping absolute to relative mode too
[09:35:08] <archivist> I mean incremtal / relative
[09:37:39] <archivist> G90/G91 so the regular operation is relative, then move to an absolute position the do it again relative to there
[09:45:40] <HDB10> <archivist>: Thanks for the info. This should do it as I was looking for a method of defining a variable and then assigning a value to it.
[09:45:56] <archivist> HDB10, an example I have lying on my server http://www.archivist.info/cnc/milled_helical_n_teeth.ngc
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[09:46:42] <HDB10> I am a C programmer so I am a bit lost in G code as you can imagine.
[09:47:30] <archivist> syntax is awful I know
[09:48:17] <archivist> Im assembler,C,PHP,database so syntax a culture shock
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[09:48:32] <HDB10> If not a rude question are you in the US?
[09:48:45] <archivist> no UK
[09:49:34] <archivist> Im on the user map on linuxcnc
[09:49:44] <HDB10> OK, I am Aussie North of Sydney. No flooding here :0)
[09:50:09] <psha> i guess you are two with most significant distance
[09:57:25] <archivist> HDB10, what you will find in here is a proportion who rely on cam to do the work and a proportion who code, for some coding is the only option as opensource cam has its limits
[10:00:49] <HDB10> <archivist> Yes I understand this as I have a couple of friend that know nothing as far as coding is concerned and only cam. I like to get my hand dirty as this is a special purpose machine and there is nothing that is standard about it.
[10:01:24] <archivist> HDB10, mine is 5 axis and there is no cam for me
[10:01:42] <HDB10> What are you running ?
[10:02:11] <archivist> machine is home made
[10:02:22] <archivist> fugly at that too
[10:03:07] <HDB10> Yes "fugly" ?
[10:05:12] <archivist> there is ugly and then there is http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG
[10:06:17] <archivist> was far to busy using to ever make pretty
[10:09:33] <HDB10> I have to do a beautification job on mine also LOL yours is neat but comparison to mine.
[10:10:04] <HDB10> It's a mill of some kind by the look of it ?
[10:10:42] <HDB10> What do you make on it ?
[10:11:59] <archivist> gears (clock) mainly
[10:13:07] <HDB10> I had a friend in Ireland many years ago and he made a killing on tow balls for trailers.
[10:16:17] <HDB10> psha: Thanks for the help Man .
[10:16:57] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/user/davethearchivist#p/a/u/1/HAtziCsUj5Q
[10:26:06] <HDB10> <archivist> Very impressive, you have spent some serious hours on that stuff !
[10:27:13] <archivist> thnks
[10:27:34] <HDB10> Are you working at the moment ?
[10:28:57] <archivist> no
[10:34:02] <HDB10> I thin I'll head off to bed as it is 9:30 here and I've been at it most of the day. So I'll catch up with you next time and many thanks for your assistance.
[10:35:47] <HDB10> Take a look at www.need4reading.com we have managed to get a number of kids actually reading and comprehending what they are reading :-)
[10:38:45] <archivist> I collect books why would I need that
[10:43:27] <HDB10> You can read. It's for people that are illiterate and there are plenty of those from 7 -70 .........
[10:52:29] <HDB10> <archivist> All the best D... and I'll catch up next time, Bye for now.
[10:52:56] <psha> bbl
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[14:50:30] <skunkworks> interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79gllA3WSI
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[16:13:39] <danimal_garage> quick question for you guys.
[16:13:52] <danimal_garage> so there's ferror and min ferror parameters
[16:14:12] <danimal_garage> in the manual, it seems like you can leave min ferror out
[16:14:47] <danimal_garage> and it would give you a proportional slope of ferror, in relation to the velocity
[16:15:31] <danimal_garage> so if my ferror is .01", and my max velocity is 300ipm, at 3ipm, in theory, the ferror would be .0001?
[16:16:31] <danimal_garage> and if i had had a min ferror in place, it wouldnt go any lower than whatever that parameter was?
[16:17:41] <danimal_garage> did anyone see what i just posted? just realized i wasnt identified
[16:17:46] <skunkworks> yes
[16:17:54] <danimal_garage> ok
[16:18:54] <skunkworks> I think you are correct (although I don't know why you would want to get rid of the min following errer
[16:18:57] <skunkworks> error
[16:19:18] <cradek> MIN_FERROR is the aloowed erro at stop, FERROR is at rapid
[16:19:25] <cradek> there is linear interpolation between the two for intermediate speeds
[16:19:35] <cradek> wow, "aloowed erro"
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[16:20:32] <cradek> I doubt you want MIN_FERROR=0
[16:20:47] <danimal_garage> yea, just trying to understand it all
[16:21:09] <danimal_garage> so far it's running at 300ipm fairly well
[16:21:24] <danimal_garage> 11 for acceleration
[16:22:15] <danimal_garage> it seems to make some screeching noise above that velocity, i assume maybe it's a bit much for the motors
[16:22:26] <danimal_garage> it ferrors
[16:22:46] <cradek> unless it's a pretty big machine, 300 ipm is a fine speed
[16:22:52] <danimal_garage> would gear reduction get me a little more velocity, ya think?
[16:23:08] <cradek> I'd worry more about accel if you want to speed up runtimes
[16:23:14] <cradek> what's the travel?
[16:23:29] <danimal_garage> or at least the same velocity but faster accel and less stress on the motor?
[16:23:45] <danimal_garage> 17 inches usable because of the tool changer
[16:23:49] <danimal_garage> and enclosure
[16:24:04] <danimal_garage> this is the y axis
[16:24:12] <cradek> do you even get up to 300 on a full length traverse?
[16:24:31] <danimal_garage> yes
[16:24:41] <skunkworks> I think we need pictures.
[16:24:49] <cradek> heh
[16:24:58] <cradek> brb
[16:25:57] <danimal_garage> well i'm sure we can do the math on that with my accel rate, right? :)
[16:29:11] <danimal_garage> do you guys think it'd be bebeficial to do some gear reduction?
[16:29:23] <danimal_garage> they're 3000rpm max motors
[16:32:22] <danimal_garage> beneficial*
[16:32:34] <skunkworks> what rpm are you running for 300ipm?
[16:32:49] <danimal_garage> 1500
[16:33:28] <skunkworks> so a 2ish to 1 reduction would be 3000rpm at 300ipm.
[16:33:43] <skunkworks> how hard would that be to do?
[16:34:47] <danimal_garage> not hard
[16:35:10] <skunkworks> that would also give you 2X the input scale...
[16:35:13] <danimal_garage> but my main concern is will the motors be able to do 3000rpm under load?
[16:35:52] <skunkworks> what are you hoping to improve?
[16:36:35] <danimal_garage> get rid of some ferror, less stress on the motor, maybe a little better accelleration
[16:36:53] <danimal_garage> more velocity would be cool too, but it wont happen with 2:1
[16:37:08] <danimal_garage> i just dont want it to be less
[16:37:09] <skunkworks> sounds good. you could do a little less that 2:1
[16:40:37] <danimal_garage> yea, i was thinking 2:1.5
[16:40:50] <danimal_garage> or 1.5:1
[16:41:02] <danimal_garage> 1/3 reduction
[16:47:07] <danimal_garage> well i'm happy with y for now, time to work on getting x mounted
[16:51:00] <danimal_garage> btw, since my motors have resolvers, and the resolver feedback goes to the drives, and the drives send a encoder signal to emc, i have an idea if i ever need to eliminate that and just throw an encoder on the motor instead..... do you think i can throw some resistors in place of the resolver, the same resistance of the coils? This might trick it so the drive wont get a feedback loss alarm. I know
[16:51:00] <danimal_garage> i can just hook up a dummy resolver to the drive and it should work, even if i'm not using it
[16:54:35] <skunkworks> I would assume the resolvers are used for drive comutation.. So you cannot get rid of them.
[16:55:39] <cradek> they're AC servos right?
[16:55:59] <danimal_garage> yes
[16:57:39] <cradek> yeah those resolvers aren't there just for their good looks :-)
[16:58:12] <danimal_garage> i figured they only went to the drives if you were running a program stored in the drive
[16:58:43] <danimal_garage> yay my molex connectors came from mouser, and they are indeed the right ones for the drive
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[19:43:16] <danimal_garage> 2 axii running so far
[19:43:19] <danimal_garage> just z to go
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[19:46:03] <skunkworks> nice!
[19:49:05] <danimal_garage> x was easy, i just coppied everything from y lol
[19:49:22] <danimal_garage> i had to make a cable though
[19:49:40] <danimal_garage> i still gotta tune it a little but it at least works as good as y
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[20:01:39] <andypugh> what's he f-error now?
[20:01:53] <danimal_garage> still about the same
[20:02:09] <danimal_garage> but the acceleration is faster
[20:02:14] <danimal_garage> it's up to 15
[20:05:36] <danimal_garage> well it looks like i fixed the motor that was giving the feedback loss alarm
[20:05:57] <danimal_garage> there was a broken wire in the harness
[20:06:03] <danimal_garage> at a connector
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[20:06:28] <danimal_garage> now i just need to see if my pulley is in so i can hook up the z axis
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[20:15:07] <ve7it> Jymmm, you around the keyboard?
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[20:23:52] <danimal_garage> hmmm i can probably use these old steppers and drives for something
[20:24:40] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Toolchanger?
[20:24:41] <danimal_garage> i can definitely use the i/o pins that they were attached to for something. I was completely out on my 5i20
[20:24:49] <danimal_garage> i have a toolchanger
[20:24:57] <andypugh> A toolchanger changer?
[20:25:15] <danimal_garage> lol
[20:25:53] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: I am using 2 5i20's and am running out of i/o ;)
[20:27:05] <danimal_garage> hows your huge machine going?
[20:27:19] <skunkworks> really good. very happy with the progress.
[20:27:29] <danimal_garage> is it running yet?
[20:27:31] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[20:27:56] <andypugh> Opinions needed. Gearchange.comp lets you define a minimum speed. So if max is 10000 and min is 200, you can have 200-10000 and -200 to -10000 rpm as output (and with accelleration ramping, can smoothly pass through zero, as it happens).
[20:28:00] <skunkworks> mocking up the control panel right now.
[20:28:57] <andypugh> Question is, if you demand zero speed with a minimum speed limit, should the value be min-speed, or zero?
[20:29:41] <skunkworks> I would think zero is zero
[20:29:59] <skunkworks> spindle off
[20:30:09] <danimal_garage> very cool man!
[20:30:17] <danimal_garage> i'm impresssed
[20:30:19] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: thanks
[20:30:58] <skunkworks> there are a bunch of random videos on there
[20:31:30] <andypugh> I like the combination drilling-boring tool :-)
[20:31:42] <skunkworks> heh - yes - it is bent ;)
[20:33:16] <skunkworks> andypugh: with my gear shift comp - I came across the problem of what the SO should do. I settled on - the S word does the actual gear change (if the s-word changes) and the SO just changes the vfd. (so as I slow the spindle down - it doesn't start shifting gears)
[20:33:45] <skunkworks> but it does allow for lower rpm that the minimum gear setting
[20:34:36] <andypugh> This one doesn't actually shift gears, but has on-max and on-min pins. I think I will go along with your scheme and not set them for S = 0
[20:35:59] <danimal_garage> oooh a gear shifting convo
[20:36:11] <danimal_garage> shifts on the fly?
[20:37:02] <andypugh> Not built-in to the one I am writing.
[20:37:39] <andypugh> Though I guess that if it was a sequential box you could run air cylinders off the max/min pins
[20:38:09] <andypugh> (or move the varispeed lever)
[20:38:36] <danimal_garage> my lathe has clutches, which are electromagenticaly activated
[20:39:08] <andypugh> Electric pink? :-)
[20:39:14] <danimal_garage> only problem is my vfd cant handle the sudden load and speed changes of doing it on the fly
[20:39:20] <danimal_garage> i'd need a much bigger vfd
[20:39:38] <andypugh> This gearchange comp has accelleration limiting....
[20:39:59] <andypugh> (Not sure that helps)
[20:40:38] <danimal_garage> probably would
[20:40:59] <danimal_garage> however i have a bit of overlap, so it's unlikely i'll need to do it on the fly anyways
[20:41:07] <danimal_garage> in fact i never really leave low gear
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[20:50:22] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22dWg3GbywE
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[20:52:06] <andypugh> Rather outmoded by the invention of the VFD
[20:52:26] <skunkworks> yah - 16 gears is a lot. but - what the heck ;)
[20:52:53] <andypugh> My mill has 8.
[20:53:01] <skunkworks> nice!
[20:53:03] <andypugh> I will be insisting on using them :-)
[20:53:19] <archivist> you wont if you can hear them
[20:53:47] <andypugh> Part of the reason I bought this one was because the old one was so horribly noisy.
[20:53:48] <danimal_garage> my stereo goes to 11
[20:54:04] * atmega inserts an engraving bit
[20:54:09] <atmega> mine goes to 12
[20:54:13] <skunkworks> the brown and sharp manual mill has quite a few spindle gears also. (don't remember how many) but they shift through each gear by spinning a crank. pretty easy to set something up...
[20:54:14] <danimal_garage> ha
[20:54:38] <archivist> my southbend gears go up to wake the neighbours
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[20:54:40] <danimal_garage> i am soooo looking forward to finishing this servo swap
[20:54:48] <atmega> anyone have any single-stroke fonts for engraving?
[20:54:48] <danimal_garage> just a few hours to go hopefully
[20:55:02] <andypugh> archivist: Psst wanna buy a Wohlhaputer boring head?
[20:55:27] <archivist> andypugh, I needs a job to pay for toys
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[20:55:46] <mshaver> you need several jobs to pay for that!
[20:55:58] <andypugh> This isn't a toy, it's a decorative sculpture
[20:56:30] <andypugh> Probably the most nicely-made thing I have seen.
[20:56:48] <archivist> so keep and use till I can afford
[20:57:02] <andypugh> It's too big for my machine.
[20:57:14] <andypugh> (eBay picture problem)
[20:57:42] <andypugh> I expect to have its little brother next week.
[20:57:56] <mshaver> Q: If I program T1M6G43\n, will that have the same effect as T1M6\nG43\n ? Does the G43 need to be in a later block than the tool change itself?
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[20:58:03] <andypugh> (My concept of a fair price for one doubled once I had handled the big one)
[20:58:28] <andypugh> No, same line is fine.
[20:58:29] <cradek> mshaver: they can be in the same block. the effect is the same
[20:58:37] <mshaver> Thanks!
[20:58:45] <mshaver> Both of you!
[20:58:53] <andypugh> I type G43 by rote
[20:59:29] <cradek> notice the G43 is executed before the M6 according to http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_overview.html#sec:Modal-Groups
[20:59:40] <cradek> ... but this has no particularly important effect
[21:00:08] <cradek> I'm wrong
[21:00:15] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_overview.html#sec:Order-of-Execution
[21:00:17] <cradek> wrong table
[21:01:16] <mshaver> Q2: When editing the tool table in AXIS' spiffy new editor, once changes are made and the "Write Tool Table" button has been pressed, does the "Reload File" button need to be pressed to make the saved changes effective?
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[21:01:25] <cradek> yes
[21:01:38] <cradek> the tool table editor is just an editor like a text editor - emc knows nothing about it
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[21:01:47] <mshaver> OK, that might be this guy's problem then... Thanks!
[21:01:57] <cradek> wait, do you mean File/Reload Tool Table
[21:02:18] <cradek> that's what you need to poke after saving a change to the tool table
[21:02:29] <mshaver> No, there's a "Reload File" button on the bottom of the editor.
[21:02:44] <cradek> that doesn't tell EMC to do anything
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[21:03:01] <mshaver> Or does that just reload the file for editing?
[21:03:03] <cradek> sometimes EMC writes the tool table too -- maybe you'd push it then, to reread the latest.
[21:03:09] <cradek> exactly
[21:03:15] <cradek> it's just like a fancy text editor
[21:03:18] <mshaver> OK!
[21:03:26] <andypugh> special feature of the new gearchange.comp, if you set the gear ratio to zero, the output is clamped to zero. Handy if your gearbox has a broken ratio :-)
[21:03:51] <andypugh> mshaver: 8i20 stuff went into master yesterday
[21:04:54] <mshaver> Cool! I've laid out a power supply board for the 8i20 and figured out the heatsinking, so more testing soon!
[21:05:29] <mshaver> I need to improve the low speed torque (<150RPM)
[21:07:57] <andypugh> Shouldn't the torque be pretty constant (and high) at low speeds?
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[21:19:38] <mshaver> andypugh: you would think it would be, but no - it may have something to do with my hal file
[21:20:19] <PCW> Torque at low speeds should be entirely determined by current
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[21:23:58] <PCW> Dont know if you saw it Andy but had 3 7I64s and a 8I20 running at 6 KHz no trouble
[21:24:00] <PCW> Your driver works fine. I would like the SSLBP data reg brought out to HAL so failed transactions (CRC or timeout) can be logged
[21:26:57] <danimal_garage> these new smart android phones are pretty rediculous
[21:27:43] <PCW> Mshaver: do you have the current set all the way to 30A?
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[21:39:42] <elmo40> http://code.google.com/p/emcfab/ <-- interesting
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[21:49:06] <mshaver> PCW: Yes
[21:49:37] <elmo40> when doing Feed for rotary axis, what is it measured in? degrees/min?
[21:49:42] <mshaver> PCW: Do you have an EMC setup running now?
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[21:51:49] <PCW> Yes
[21:52:45] <mshaver> Let me e-mail you my test files and you can see what you think!
[21:53:53] <PCW> Just to make sure did you set the NVMAXCURRENT to 3000?
[21:54:45] <PCW> (I think thats only doable via the DOS/Windows utilities ATM)
[21:58:45] <mshaver> Yep! Made a DOS floppy, ran WPD NVMAXCURRENT 3000, and RPD'ed it back to be sure.
[21:59:46] <mshaver> I sent you an e-mail with my test files in it just now if you're interested.
[21:59:57] <psha> polite spammer ;)
[22:01:15] <mshaver> hmmm, hal files that do pop-up ads on cnc machines... maybe this is something that I should never have put into writing!
[22:02:02] <PCW> I can give that a try but probably Monday
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[22:04:47] <psha> mshaver: great idea ;)
[22:05:01] <psha> large contract with google or other ads reseller!
[22:06:53] <mshaver> PCW: I was going to get together with you for some help with my torque issues soon. Next week is just fine, no major hurry in this, except to get any changes (if needed) into EMC2.5.
[22:07:18] <PCW> mshaver do you have Hall probe to measure current?
[22:09:15] <mshaver> No, in fact I no longer have an 8i20 setup in my personal possession. It's out in Ann Arbor at Smithy. To do experiments with it I have to talk to a guy on the phone, tell him what to do, and ask questions about what he observes.
[22:10:06] <mshaver> I think he _might_ have a clamp type ammeter and a general purpose DMM, but that's it.
[22:10:53] <mshaver> The pyvcp panel included in the test setup does display commanded current!
[22:12:18] <danimal_garage> yay, all the servos are mounted on the shizuoka
[22:12:41] <danimal_garage> just gotta make one mor cable and tune the z axis then it's pretty much done
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[22:13:12] <danimal_garage> no more steppers
[22:13:34] <skunkworks> yay\
[22:13:43] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: videos and pictures
[22:13:54] <danimal_garage> will do when it's done
[22:14:00] <skunkworks> :)
[22:14:00] <PCW> clamp on ampmeter will only work if its Hall type (DC)
[22:14:06] <mshaver> YAY! Now instead of missed steps you can get following errors! Hurray!
[22:14:13] <skunkworks> heh
[22:14:41] <danimal_garage> at least i'll know before the part is scrapped
[22:15:01] <danimal_garage> i'm sick of wasting titanium
[22:15:55] <PCW> mshaver do you have the spindle motor specifications? (I might have asked before)
[22:16:11] <mshaver> It's going to be whatever is in a cheap Home Depot/Harbor Freight ammeter.
[22:17:11] <PCW> That wont help unfortunately
[22:17:18] <mshaver> No, it's from China. They are completely unfamiliar with the concept of data sheets. Generally you buy things from them based on a picture of the product :)
[22:18:00] <mshaver> Any inquiry is either ignored, or you get a reply that makes no sense.
[22:18:08] <PCW> can you measure the stall torque?
[22:18:44] <mshaver> Maybe with a torque wrench... I'll have to ask Dave at Smithy what he's got.
[22:19:22] <PCW> What is the motor rating?
[22:19:41] <psha> PG-13
[22:19:47] <mshaver> 2.2kW Brushless Spindle Motor
[22:19:51] <psha> or higher
[22:21:35] <PCW> so a 2.2 KW motor seems well matched = 10A 220V continuous and the 8I20 can supply 30A for 3X normal torque
[22:21:35] <mshaver> KL-2260_BLM: http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCmillingcontroller.html
[22:22:26] <mshaver> those are exactly the numbers that went through my head when I started
[22:23:26] <mshaver> except we're throwing out the worthless Sangmutan drive electronics
[22:25:29] <PCW> no real specs (NM/Amp etc)
[22:27:39] <mshaver> No. They'll go on for pages and pages without actually telling you anything useful.
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[22:34:19] <PCW> If you want to check the current the numbers for 30A motor current are ~24.5A peak per phase = 17.32 A RMS/phase
[22:37:11] <mshaver> But, non-sinusoidal, so a true RMS measuring device needs to be used, right?
[22:37:57] <PCW> I'll try your HAL file Monday (will need to change to thump start)
[22:37:58] <PCW> Andy updated the BLDC comp to give a fixed thump start time regardless of the servo period
[22:38:00] <PCW> so I suspect your problem thump starting at high servo rates will be gone
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[22:39:35] <mshaver> If I put a .1 ohm resistor inline with a winding and a differential oscope probe across it, I'd see gibberish right?
[22:40:32] <mshaver> anyway, Thanks! I'll catch up with you on Monday!
[22:40:37] <PCW> Actually a DC ampmeter meter will work (theoretically) but most meters dont like the +-160V common mode so a Hal sensor is the best way
[22:40:39] <PCW> your .1 Ohm should work but a Hall device is much safer and gets a cleaner reading)
[22:40:57] <mshaver> I wonder what a Hall probe costs?
[22:42:16] <PCW> What we use are 100A current sensor modules (you need to supply +-15V)
[22:42:29] <PCW> I can send you one
[22:43:24] <mshaver> Cool! I've got a nice +/-15V supply I can use!
[22:43:42] <PCW> basically a PC mount ferrite core with a linear Hall effect device in a gap in the core
[22:46:23] <PCW> bbl back to schematic drudgery
[22:47:05] <mshaver> Let's see what you can see when you try my test files on Monday, then we can decide what we need to do next. Ideally I want to be able to rotate the motor down to a creeping speed, orient the spindle (if we implement a tool changer in the future), and also run it like a regular spindle up to it's maximum speed.
[22:47:17] <mshaver> Thanks!
[22:51:36] <PCW> maximum speed may require a 4 KHz servo thread (until we get angle extrapolation working)
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[22:55:09] <andypugh> PCW / mshaver You can set NVMAXCURRENT with the current Master, if you know the secret incantation.
[22:55:33] <mshaver> Which is?
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[22:55:51] <mshaver> In the man page right :)
[22:56:08] <andypugh> Mainly
[22:56:34] <elmo40> danimal_garage: can I have your old steppers? :)
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[23:03:10] <psha> bb all
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[23:07:56] <gezar> howdy
[23:10:26] <andypugh> PCW / mshaver http://pastebin.com/L8JkRsmb
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[23:13:19] <danimal_garage> ha you dont want these
[23:13:25] <danimal_garage> they arent worth the shipping
[23:14:14] <danimal_garage> maybe i'll make a pick-n-place system for the mill
[23:14:18] <mshaver> andypugh: Saved for future reference!
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[23:20:29] <gezar> is there any interest in using a GPU to perform some of the path calculations?
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[23:22:50] <danimal_garage> does anyone know how to make it so when i use tool touch off, it changes the tool offset for the tool offset instead of the tool number?
[23:22:55] <danimal_garage> for example, i use gang tooling in my lathe, so they all use the same tool number, but i use different tool offsets for all of them
[23:23:06] <danimal_garage> like t7m6 g43h7, g43h8, g43h9, etc
[23:23:20] <mshaver> gezar: If you could run all the realtime tasks on the GPU, with jitter as low as it is with RTAI now and without the need for a realtime kernel, then yes, I think that would be very interesting.
[23:23:20] <danimal_garage> when i use tool touch off, it changes it for tool offset 7 only, even if i do g43h8 in mdi before i touch it off
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[23:24:20] <gezar> mshaver: interesting idea. there are current real time solutions involving the gpu and I am looking for a potential research project in a new class this semester
[23:25:09] <gezar> I have one already that involves parsing some parallel searching through data, but I am considering picking up a side project
[23:25:24] <mshaver> As you know, we are constrained by the limitations of the PC. Any addition to the resources available is good!
[23:25:55] <gezar> well I finally made it to the point in programing that I can help with the development of emc, since what 1998 or so
[23:27:30] <gezar> I will consider taking a look at some of the motion calculations, as of now, I will be limited to using nvidia gpu but there are open solutions as well
[23:27:40] <mshaver> IF you could make it possible to run EMC on a PC with a standard kernel and a (specific) GPU, you would be revered, or at least generally appreciated.
[23:28:28] <mshaver> The machines I'm building all use nvidia cards now, so that's fine.
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[23:30:09] <gezar> this sort of thing is new to me still and evertime I look at emc's code, well, it is a lot better than it used to be,
[23:30:38] <gezar> in fact I remember when hal was add and huge improvement at that point
[23:31:06] <gezar> I will have to be reminded of the dev channel and I will probably post something to the dev list once I get my feet planted
[23:32:00] <gezar> I dont know if getting away from a real time will be possible but I will take a look at it
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[23:33:35] <mshaver> Good Luck! Logging out now to take a shower and go to sleep.
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[23:49:05] <andypugh> gezar: By all means investigate, but the fact is that EMC2 (and CNC in general) is not actually very CPU-intensive. You can do it very well with very modest hardware.
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[23:51:51] <gezar> andypugh: yeah, I am just wanting to look at doing some research in calculation speedup from a few cpus to hundreds(typically the case in most new graphic cards)
[23:52:30] <andypugh> Sorry, yes, I got the hang of what you were trying to do a bit later.
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[23:54:38] <gezar> andypugh : I am not really wanting to change anything, but to find motivation to work on emc some and finish my schooling out.
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[23:55:48] <micges> logger[psha]: witaj
[23:55:57] <andypugh> EtherCAT or RealtimeUSB would be potentially more interesting. The latter would be equally hard too. (There is a moribund realtime USB extension for RTAI)
[23:56:00] <ve7it> gezar, gpu could be interesting... do they have any access to i/o on the video cards (like one of the video connectors)? Fast I/O is the downfall of the PC
[23:56:36] <gezar> ve7it : I was thinking about that earlier, I am not sure about i/o ports yet, that is one of the things I will be checking into
[23:56:53] <ve7it> cool
[23:57:37] <gezar> andypugh : I so wished for that back in the day. I dont think I am at that level and anything I do will be limited to a few axis
[23:58:22] <gezar> usb would be fantastic because of the seperation of hardware to a much more simple sol^n
[23:58:23] <andypugh> If you want a more modest project, somebody needs to do SPI for Hostmot2
[23:58:49] <danimal_garage> z axis moves
[23:58:58] <danimal_garage> i officially have servos
[23:59:03] <ve7it> if a $50 video card could run a few threads and send I/O through one of the the video connectors, that would be very interesting sub for dedicated cards like the mesa
[23:59:19] <gezar> let me look something up
[23:59:53] <andypugh> Though the Mesa 7i43 is only $80....