#emc | Logs for 2011-01-22

[00:00:05] <Jymmm> nope
[00:00:12] <UnderSampled> oh
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[00:18:47] <PCW> Anyone know how to create the Xorg.conf file on Lucid? The wiki instructions (sudo Xorg -configure) dont work for me
[00:21:42] <cradek> are you sure you are looking in the right place for the output of Xorg -configure? I think it goes in the current directory, not /etc/X11
[00:36:28] <PCW> It looks like you cant run it when X is running
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[00:40:44] <PCW> So I tried the running it in text mode. it makes a xorg.conf but it doesnt work if I change the driver to vesa, must be something else that needs changing as well
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[00:48:42] <PCW> error with Driver "vesa" is : Kernel modesetting driver in use refusing to load
[00:53:34] <cpresser> PCW: are you using a kernel with the KMS-feature? you might want to turn that off for emc anyway
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[01:03:46] <PCW> Just the live cd,, let me try turning off KMS if its on
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[01:19:46] <UnderSampled> what window manager does emc2 default to?
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[01:33:08] <PCW> OK secret is nomodeset in grub.cfg
[01:33:32] <UnderSampled> the computer I want to run emc on is really old
[01:33:49] <UnderSampled> I want to give it the smallest possible gui
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[01:34:16] <UnderSampled> what's the best way to give it one?
[01:36:12] <PCW> Probably easier to get a newer computer (how old is it?)
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[01:39:55] <UnderSampled> PCW: like, 15 years old
[01:40:23] <PCW> what CPU?
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[01:42:53] <UnderSampled> PCW: the post screen lists it as an AMD-K6(tm)-2/300
[01:44:35] <PCW> That sounds pretty iffy to me
[01:45:03] <UnderSampled> PCW: iffy in what way?
[01:46:49] <PCW> just way to old and slow, it may be possible to cobble up a system with a lightweight window manager, but its probably much easier to just get a newer machine
[01:47:36] <PCW> I guess it depends on what problem you are trying to solve
[01:50:48] <UnderSampled> yeash
[01:50:51] <UnderSampled> *yeah
[01:51:02] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[01:51:04] <UnderSampled> it works good for just terminal box
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[02:20:03] <ries> hey guys, I have a odd question, I have a pinion/rack based gantry router and I have two pinions (out of 4) that ere off-center by about 1mm from the motors shaft. Is it possible to counter effect this effect with EMC2 bu correcting the off-center effect?
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[02:21:19] <Jymmm> you mean backlash compensation? If so, it's best to mechanically correct that if you can. But there is a setting for it in emc
[02:21:56] <ries> Jymmm: no, it's not backslash
[02:22:56] <ries> I got 4 pinions at 8mm for my motor shaft, but I needed 12 (or 14) mm. so I asked somebody to drill them bigger, but I think he set them incorrectly at his lathe, and making my 14mm shafts off-center
[02:23:43] <ries> so, if I currently cut a circle, I get it very slightly oval at specific circle sizes
[02:23:45] <Guest100> Can I take positions and velocity commands from EMC in another form other than pulses from parallel port? I will use a non-commercial servo controller, will be design for my graduation project which is about CNC, and the controller/EMC interface is unclear for me.
[02:23:59] <Guest100> So is there any other way to get the set-points other than pulses, how can I configure that?
[02:24:40] <EmcRules_Cad> Guest100" you can use analog
[02:25:27] <ries> Jymmm: so, what I want to do is x=x+(some correction value(d))
[02:25:39] <ries> s/d/x/
[02:26:06] <ries> so depending on the location I will calculate the angle of the pinion and correct this
[02:26:38] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: wouldn't your pinions pull away from the rack causing backlash
[02:26:41] <ries> I would rather by a new pinion, but it came from Japan and in this country it's hard to let something like that manufacture or import
[02:27:06] <Tom_itx> try stock drive products
[02:27:10] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: yes, however the motor + pinion are pushed against the rack by a spring
[02:28:00] <Tom_itx> http://www.sdp-si.com/
[02:28:40] <EmcRules_Cad> Ah are the pinions custom? misiumi may also have something.
[02:29:31] <ries> Tom_itx: if that link was for me... importing into Ecuaodr is not as easy as I would hope for...often I pay over 50% taxes to customs and DHL/FEdex handling cost. not to mention delivery times of weeks...
[02:29:45] <ries> sometimes up to 8 or longer
[02:30:01] <Tom_itx> get someone to drop ship it to you
[02:30:12] <Tom_itx> that is if you can find what you need
[02:30:13] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: the pinions where suppose to be Module 1, but I think they are not..
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[02:31:05] <ries> Tom_itx: I don't think you have ever lived in Ecuador :) drop shipping means here, many calls to DHL or Fedex, they tell you it's at customes... and because it's there I need to pay extra... then later it's like. Yes you can pick it up in this and that big city
[02:31:32] <Tom_itx> so send it regular air mail
[02:31:41] <ries> If I can corect it for teh time beeing in EMC, then I can pick it up and order it one day when I go to holland or the US for hollidays
[02:32:34] <Guest100> sorry for this question, but do u mean by using M67? or what?
[02:32:40] <ries> Tom_itx: anything that feels heavy goes to customs, and then you are in trouble importing. Last year I ordered something from ebay and it took 4 months to get arrived
[02:34:56] <ries> Guest100: was that a question for me??? I didn't follow the channel for some time...
[02:35:21] <EmcRules_Cad> Guest100: No I mean by using hardware that would give you an analog signal to command a servor drive. Rather than driving said drive digitally
[02:36:41] <EmcRules_Cad> Guest100 what kind of drive are you planing on using?
[02:37:47] <Guest100> actually I will design the servo-controller and the motor drive ... this is for my graduation project
[02:38:03] <Guest100> we will desgin the mechanical part also
[02:38:06] <HDB10> Can anyone assist with how to increment an axis in hal A = A+0.1 ?
[02:38:15] <Guest100> but our problem is the G-Code compiler
[02:38:31] <Guest100> so we think to use emc and get the set point from it
[02:40:00] <Guest100> We want to use emc to get the setpoint only from it, and sent to a servo controller/drive ... the electronic part will not be commertial
[02:40:23] <Guest100> so our pb is how to interface the emc and the controller to get the set-point
[02:42:49] <Guest100> Is there any way to get the setpoint from emc before they converted to pulses. Take them and send via ISA for example?
[02:43:25] <EmcRules_Cad> Anything is possible. what is the goal?
[02:44:16] <EmcRules_Cad> ISA?
[02:44:48] <Guest100> PCI
[02:44:53] <Guest100> Sorry for that
[02:45:01] <Guest100> I meant PCI
[02:45:42] <ries> Jymmm: I can use the kinematics module... I just need to measure the exact offset and position once this 'correctly at my home position
[02:45:42] <EmcRules_Cad> Look at mesa electronics they have designed PCI FPGA based hardware to interface with EMC to creat digital or analog comand signals to drive systems
[02:46:55] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: What about a screw comp file
[02:48:03] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: I would need to read what that is :)
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[02:48:52] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Screw_Compensation
[02:50:05] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: not to sure how this may help on a gantry. But I thought it might
[02:51:17] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: I am tryng to understand what problem screw compensation is trying to solve
[02:51:21] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: really just adds an offest to an axis along a defined length
[02:52:44] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: in my case with each half revolution of my pinion I need to compensate. I think is a sinus type of compensation over a length of pi*d
[02:53:27] <ries> something like (top of my head) x=x+sin(x*pi)*compensationfactor
[02:53:48] <ries> my math is rusty :D but something like that...
[02:55:08] <ries> could be a ellipse to.... but something like that
[02:55:16] <EmcRules_Cad> One moter per axis or two?
[02:55:56] <ries> on X two motors, on Y one on Z one
[02:56:16] <EmcRules_Cad> What axis are the pinions on?
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[02:56:23] <ries> all 3
[02:56:39] <EmcRules_Cad> The ones that are machined wrong?
[02:57:30] <ries> my Y and Z I believe... but I can always switch my good pinions to X (that has 2 motors)
[02:57:38] <ries> so I only need to compensate 2 axis
[02:58:18] <EmcRules_Cad> What distance does 1 pinion rev =?
[02:59:05] <ries> around 60mm
[02:59:28] <EmcRules_Cad> And half a rev?
[02:59:33] <ries> no..more... around 100mm, I forgot the exact pitch diameter
[03:00:24] <ries> half a rev then 50..
[03:01:51] <EmcRules_Cad> Sorry what I meant is how are you observing your excentric condition affecting your travel is it the same every half rev?
[03:01:55] <ries> I would need to create the exact formula for compensation...not a sinus I think but something from a elipse
[03:02:52] <ries> when my gantry moves from left to right, I see my motor wobble a bit over the track, because it's spring pushed against the rack it can move a bit
[03:03:32] <ries> It's a wood router... so we don't care to much, but still...
[03:03:45] <ries> www.mechmate.com
[03:04:55] <EmcRules_Cad> You should be able to use a screw comp mapping travel would suck but it should work.
[03:05:15] <ries> going to read about that....
[03:05:32] <ries> thanks a million...
[03:06:15] <EmcRules_Cad> no problem
[03:08:05] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: is there a page that explains what screw compensation tries to solve? I am only getting to the config page and not sure what the numbers mean
[03:08:39] <Guest100> <EmcRules_Cad> Sorry I think I didn't express myself very well. English is not my mother tongue language. I explain it a lettel bit more.
[03:09:08] <Guest100> To clear the goal: My graduation project is on CNC, and as a graduation I can't buy commercial products and assembly them to make the m/c, this mean that I have to design some things. The scope is to design the mechanical part and a servo controller, that have PID loop, and the motor drives. The motors will be BLDC motors.
[03:09:30] <Guest100> Now regrading the G-Code compiler, EMC will be used for this purpose. We want to take from EMC the sent points which are interpreted from G-Code and sent them to the controller.
[03:09:50] <Guest100> It will be hard to use the servo-controller with an input set-point as pulses so can I get from the emc the position and velocity commands which are extracted from G-code.
[03:13:11] <Guest100> EMC will be use only to interpret the G code and calculate the acc/decc and an external circuit will be used to controll the motion
[03:15:04] <seb_kuzminsky> Guest100: sounds like you want to write a HAL module, that's probably the easiest way to get at g-code waypoints
[03:16:44] <Guest100> <seb-kuzminsky> and after I get the way point I can send it via? PCI for example
[03:16:54] <Guest100> ot here are onither options?
[03:17:05] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, send it via anything you want
[03:17:23] <seb_kuzminsky> you'll get motor position commands frmo HAL into your software
[03:17:42] <seb_kuzminsky> your software can do anything it wants to implement the command
[03:18:47] <seb_kuzminsky> usually we just wire up the commands to existing hal modules that implement motion
[03:19:06] <Guest100> <seb-kuzminsky> The software will be implemeted in an embeded circuit
[03:19:08] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: I se, it's just a file with compensation values for each position. In my case over Y I will get a file with 1200 entry lines at 0.1mm intervals
[03:19:08] <seb_kuzminsky> we have a pid module, and a bunch of modules for turning the output from pid to voltages on motor coils
[03:19:43] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: like i said it would suck
[03:20:08] <EmcRules_Cad> ries: but easy to make in a spreadsheet
[03:21:01] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: If there are no performance or other issues, and I assume that emc2 does interpolation between the points, then this will work well for the time beeing
[03:21:24] <Guest100> <seb-kuzminsky> I understand but the pid will be in an embedded circuit. I will not use the EMC pid module. I was requered to desgin the servo controller
[03:22:01] <ries> Guest100: punt EMC2 embedded on your hardware ;)
[03:22:03] <Guest100> <seb-kuzminsky: which have the pid module and other stuff
[03:23:40] <Guest100> seb-kuzminsky: I apprtiate your help, but I have one question?
[03:26:02] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: not to sure on performace issues on a 1200 line screw comp file.
[03:28:02] <ries> EmcRules_Cad: I will try it... see what comes up, I have some cycles left over because I don't need to pulse very fast
[03:28:08] <ries> I hope....
[03:29:58] <EmcRules_Cad> Ries: Good luck!!
[03:30:32] <Guest100> seb-kuzminsky: Is it possible to get the g-code points from HAL ... sorry it seems like a stupid question but I I don't have experience with HAL
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[03:45:40] <pcw_home> The per-axis positions are available in HAL (velocity is only available indirectly vis d/dt of positions AFAIK)
[03:46:06] <pcw_home> ---vis +++ via
[03:47:34] <elmo40> any how-to's for ladder logic? I have a fixture that uses vacuum to hold the material. I have a digital vacuum gauge that reads 0-5V. When the vacuum drops the voltage drops. I would like to set it up so that IF V_gauge <= 3V THEN F=0 M05.
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[04:24:18] <Jymmm> elmo40: What guage i this you have?
[04:24:26] <Jymmm> elmo40: What guage is this you have?
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[09:59:31] <mrsun> yeey its alllliiiiivve!!!!
[10:21:54] <dimas_> who?
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[10:33:13] <mrsun> my mill =)
[10:33:16] <mrsun> with new cnc computer =)
[10:33:59] <mrsun> now if i only could get heekscnc to work in 10.10 :/
[10:42:57] <dimas_> mrsun, congrats!
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[10:48:31] <Valen> good stuff
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[12:10:34] <cradek> ries: screw compensation will work, but beware there is a maximum number of points available per joint. you are right that it does (linear) interpolation between these points, so you probably don't need as many as you think.
[12:12:01] <cradek> looks like the maximum number of compensation points is 256
[12:12:39] <cradek> unfortunately that seems pretty small to use for periodic type compensation
[12:12:41] <ries> cradek: I was thinking I can get away with a point per mm, or even less.
[12:12:50] <cradek> what's the travel?
[12:12:52] <ries> my machine is 1220 x 2440 mm so that should work
[12:13:00] <cradek> aha, good
[12:13:10] <cradek> how many mm per turn?
[12:13:34] <ries> it's a rack/pinion type machine so it hardly turns per mm :)
[12:13:42] <jthornton> elmo40: there are examples of ladder in the Integrators manual
[12:14:26] <cradek> ries: you'll need to have very precise homing for this to work - I recommend testing that first
[12:15:39] <ries> cradek: my homing is fairly precise. and since it's rack/pinion based it basically always end at the same spot.
[12:15:57] <ries> It's a woodworking machine, so we don't care to much for anything below 0.1mm
[12:16:15] <ries> It's direct driven..
[12:16:27] <cradek> do you see error in the work now?
[12:16:45] <ries> I do
[12:16:56] <cradek> will be neat to see if you can compensate for it
[12:17:10] <ries> but I need to measure it, it's not visible by the eye, round is round..
[12:17:18] <ries> today I am going to run some test for that
[12:17:40] <cradek> sounds fun, bbl
[12:30:50] <mrsun> its been just standing there for like half a year now ... relay booring and i think ive found some of that plastic they use for those pictures where you put a light behind to make 3d images =)
[12:31:17] <mrsun> i wanted some of it and didnt know where the heck to find it, was to the recycling center and there it was, in a container, like 1m2 worth of pieces i can experiment with
[12:31:22] <mrsun> fait smiled at me =)
[12:53:06] <MattyMatt> with prisms in the surface?
[12:53:40] <MattyMatt> you can put that in front of an LCD
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[13:14:40] <mrsun> humm ? :)
[13:14:56] <mrsun> its a white plastic that light can slightly penetrate
[13:15:23] <mrsun> so the thickness gives the "gray scale" of the image
[13:15:28] <mrsun> grey
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[13:23:22] * JT-Shop wonders what to build with 4 heavy duty 41" linear rails with two linear bearings on each one...
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[13:52:55] <JT-Shop> anyone have a good plan for a material rack for short to medium length stock?
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[14:02:18] <cradek> a 2x4 nailed across an unfinished wall
[14:03:02] <cradek> don't be tempted to go horizontal - when you get five things in there, you'll always want the bottom one, so you'll just buy more instead, and pile more on top of it again
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[14:05:50] <cradek> assuming you're talking about metal -- for sheet stuff (wood/drywall/?), vertical ruins it pretty quick
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[14:09:40] <cradek> mrsun: for photographing small things, I use a milk jug with the bottom cut off at an angle. I place a good light next to it, and shoot the picture through the spout. it makes very nice even lighting.
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[14:21:03] <JT-Shop> mostly for square tubing, flats and sheet metal
[14:21:36] <JT-Shop> the 2x4 won't work in my case as the walls will be finished
[14:22:09] <Tom_itx> make a metal rack like \|/
[14:22:17] <JT-Shop> the 20' stock will have to be horizontal but on it's own rack
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[14:34:24] <JT-Shop> dam winblows died on me :/
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[14:45:28] <elmo40> Jymmm: you asked what vacuum sensor I have. this isn't exactly the one but very similar http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=PX181B
[14:46:18] <elmo40> PX181B-015VAC5V its range is 0 to -1.0bar
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[14:54:39] <JT-Shop> this is my current storage solutions in the garage :/ http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/garage/P1010064.jpg
[14:54:47] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/garage/P1010066.jpg
[14:54:53] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/garage/P1010065.jpg
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[15:01:26] <elmo40> that is a large piece of pipe!
[15:01:48] <JT-Shop> which one LOL
[15:01:57] <elmo40> second pic
[15:02:07] <JT-Shop> there is more you can't see in the pic
[15:02:10] <elmo40> vertical standing 12" I think
[15:02:28] <elmo40> maybe 10"
[15:02:41] <JT-Shop> made some robot stands from them, yea 12" in diameter 3/8" wall
[15:02:56] <JT-Shop> that was what was left over
[15:03:15] <JT-Shop> elmo40: you get your ladder sorted out?
[15:04:12] <elmo40> nope
[15:07:38] <elmo40> basically I want to stop the machine when the vacuum drops.
[15:07:42] <JT-Shop> what are you stuck one?
[15:07:45] <elmo40> and/or turn on a light
[15:08:03] <elmo40> how to program it to stop the machine
[15:08:36] <JT-Shop> link the output pin from the ladder to halui.program.stop < check spelling
[15:08:42] <cradek> have you gotten the sensor information into hal yet?
[15:08:58] <cradek> this is trivial hal and really doesn't require ladder
[15:09:01] <JT-Shop> is the vacuum sensor an on/off output?
[15:11:39] <JT-Shop> but ladder is fun!
[15:13:08] <elmo40> variable. 1-5VDC
[15:13:17] <cradek> have you gotten the sensor information into hal yet?
[15:13:27] <elmo40> I could get a vacuum switch, they are cheap.
[15:13:31] <elmo40> cradek: no.
[15:13:38] <elmo40> I don't know what to do with it
[15:14:04] <cradek> you could convert your trigger level into a digital output using a comparator (in hardware)
[15:14:14] <cradek> then simply do what JT says
[15:14:30] <cradek> you'd want to use a knob on the other side of the comparator to adjust the trigger level
[15:15:19] <cradek> my thinking is if you don't need all the analog data, get rid of it as soon as possible so it's easier to get into the computer
[15:18:25] <elmo40> I want it to go straight into the computer. it would be nice to make a screen with the vacuum information on it (simple GREEN=GOOD, RED=BAD).
[15:18:57] <cradek> well there is no way to get a 1-5 volt analog signal 'straight' into the computer
[15:19:00] <elmo40> knowing the value of vacuum is only for setup. IF < xx THEN...
[15:19:14] <elmo40> so I need a A-D converter?
[15:19:25] <cradek> you need special adc hardware, or convert it to digital
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[15:23:09] <JT-Shop> elmo40: if you wanted (non-realtime) to know the actual vacuum you could connect your sensor to an Ardunio Uno and send the info from it to EMC...
[15:23:45] <JT-Shop> otherwise what cradek said is the easiest way
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[15:28:23] <IchGuckLive> Hi all anyone nows if there is a side with funny Sketches to mill sutch as TUX Disney Caracters or Dinosours ?
[15:30:10] <Tom_itx> elmo40, make a voltage divider to trip at your desired setpoint and feed it into a schmidt trigger
[15:30:29] <Tom_itx> then you'll have a digital signal you can work with
[15:30:33] <Tom_itx> or use a comparator
[15:30:42] <KimK> IchGuckLive: There is the image to raster converter, would that help?
[15:31:41] <IchGuckLive> this makes most od zigzaging outlines also can be done with incscape i now
[15:34:27] <IchGuckLive> someone has seen this Rapid prototype projekt http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page
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[15:40:38] <awallin_> http://vimeo.com/18969652
[15:40:48] <awallin_> a bit offtopic, but anyway...
[15:45:35] <cradek> a friend of a friend here who works on bicycles was surprised to find how heavy the surface plate he bought at an auction was... a bicycle-sized plate is pretty darn big
[15:46:44] <awallin_> stone?
[15:46:50] <cradek> yes
[15:47:14] <cradek> I think he got a LOT of friends to help him carry it
[15:47:26] <JT-Shop> wow that would be heavy and thick
[15:47:49] <awallin_> all the old-school optics tables were also stone, now the new ones are steel with a honeycomb inside
[15:47:52] <JT-Shop> I have a cast iron one from WW2 about 24x24 and it is heavy
[15:47:58] <cradek> not sure what size it was, but I think my 12x18 is 80 lb
[15:48:29] <cradek> steel would be nice for that because you could mount stuff magnetically
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[16:20:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Don't ya just love the chrome racks?! I have five of them
[16:23:43] <JT-Shop> yea, a buddy gave me the wire rack one
[16:24:02] <Jymmm> Costco
[16:24:41] <JT-Shop> nearest Costco is 3 hours away :/
[16:24:51] <Jymmm> ah
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[16:30:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: This is what I did http://i53.tinypic.com/212wxtt.jpg
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[16:31:46] <Jymmm> anyone know where to get 40 or 55cf nitrogen tank cheap from?
[16:32:25] <JT-Shop> nice and neat Jymmm
[16:33:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, I just couldn't find anything anymore. So I just label the outside of the plastic bins and I know what's inside
[16:33:57] * JT-Shop goes back to building the scaffold crane
[16:34:20] <Jymmm> for the trusses?
[16:34:53] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:35:16] <Jymmm> Why can't they just toss them on the frame when delivered?
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[16:36:58] <JT-Shop> they toss them on the ground and leave
[16:37:03] <Jymmm> elmo40: Ah, I'm looking for just a on/off pressure switch.
[16:37:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: $20 and a case of beer might save you some grief
[16:37:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes, bribe the delivery guy =)
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[16:38:15] <JT-Shop> I don't think he could pick up one end of a truss LOL
[16:39:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: They dont have a cane on the delivery truck?
[16:39:10] <Jymmm> crane
[16:39:37] <JT-Shop> no, they *DUMP* them off the truck
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[16:39:44] <Jymmm> oh
[16:39:44] <JT-Shop> er trailer
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[16:47:07] <JT-Shop> awesome! the sun is out! :)
[16:51:36] <EmcRules_Cad> JT-Shop: Did you make your own ribbon cable for yor D510MO ParaPort?
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[16:52:42] <coldelectrons> I need to bounce a cutter comp problem offa someone else's brain
[16:53:09] <coldelectrons> Anyone up?
[16:55:07] <JT-Shop> EmcRules_Cad: I didn't use the parallel port
[16:55:22] <JT-Shop> coldelectrons: you just ask the question
[16:55:57] <JT-Shop> if someone is near that can answer they will otherwise wait around for a while for someone to wander by
[16:55:58] <elmo40> Tom_itx: yes, schmidt trigger is a nice idea. I think I have a few of them lying around somewhere ;)
[16:56:09] <EmcRules_Cad> JT-shop: Ah Ok thanks
[16:56:33] <coldelectrons> I'm milling an inlay - essentially a rectangular island with a rectangular pocket in it
[16:57:17] <coldelectrons> Or let's just say a 0.500" square with 0.0625" wall
[16:57:38] <elmo40> coldelectrons: what is the issue you are having?
[16:57:48] * elmo40 on a different note... http://www.3dprintheads.org/
[16:58:00] <coldelectrons> My problem is figuring how to properly figure the OD for cutter comp
[16:58:32] <coldelectrons> The wall thickness is off more than double what the outside dimensions are
[16:59:07] <coldelectrons> Outside == 0.5025"
[16:59:22] <coldelectrons> Wall thickness == 0.0675"
[16:59:51] <coldelectrons> make that 0.068"
[16:59:55] <elmo40> coldelectrons: I need more info. go here and paste the code http://paste.pocoo.org/ then give us your tool dimensions
[17:02:18] <JT-Shop> coldelectrons: when using cutter comp you program on the line and the cutter comp will take care of the offset
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[17:05:21] <elmo40> JT-Shop: depends if he has 'wear' compensation or 'radius' compensation.
[17:05:50] <elmo40> our shop is damn confusing... sometimes the D is 0 (for wear) and sometimes it is 0.25 (for radius)
[17:07:06] <JT-Shop> yea, that is a whole nuther thing if your using it for weird stuff
[17:08:58] <coldelectrons> I understand the two different uses (D or wear)
[17:09:15] <coldelectrons> I'm trying to write my inlay programs to be more cutter-agnostic
[17:09:24] <coldelectrons> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/324926/
[17:11:03] <JT-Shop> that's why you program on the line and use the tool table for different tools
[17:26:42] <coldelectrons> Part of what is making me wonder what's wrong is the fact that in order to compensate down to the right size, I have to enter a cutter diameter that is way out of tolerance to the cutter's manufactuered size
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[17:27:50] <elmo40> 'out of tolerance' ? what does that mean? you must measure your tooling !
[17:28:16] <elmo40> what the box says is just a guideline ;) micrometer is the only number you should trust
[17:30:20] <coldelectrons> The 2-flute cutters, we can probably measure without chipping
[17:30:48] <coldelectrons> 3-flute, not as easy to measure
[17:31:34] <coldelectrons> Part of the problem here is this isn't my shop, nor my own tools
[17:32:20] <coldelectrons> How one man uses and adjusts his mics is not how another does
[17:32:46] <Tom_itx> why use 3 flute cutters?
[17:32:50] <Tom_itx> use 2 or 4
[17:32:58] <Tom_itx> 2 on alum etc and 4 on steel etc
[17:33:30] <elmo40> Tom_itx: that isn't always the case.
[17:33:45] <Tom_itx> there are exceptions to every rule
[17:33:47] <elmo40> but 3 is still simple to measure. if it is an endmill.
[17:33:52] <Tom_itx> but generally speaking
[17:34:31] <coldelectrons> Catalog marketing: 3-flute 'ultra-bits'
[17:34:34] <elmo40> Tom_itx: we use 4 on Al all the time. using the side of the cutter with more flutes and less RPM makes a smooth finish
[17:35:09] <Tom_itx> for finish passes maybe otherwise the chip will build up and gauld the cutter
[17:35:09] <elmo40> my issue with more then 2 is I can't plunge. I have to ramp-in the material. 2-flutes are like a drill, plunge then move. ;)
[17:35:39] <Tom_itx> depends if it's center cutting or not
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[17:36:08] <Tom_itx> not all mills are
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[17:39:26] <coldelectrons> Okay, I have two examples in front of me
[17:39:58] <coldelectrons> One with my old static code, offset of 0.01562"
[17:40:21] <coldelectrons> and one with the cutter comp code, 0.0313D
[17:40:36] <coldelectrons> both cut just now with the same cutter, same material
[17:41:00] <Tom_itx> i tend to not like using cutter comp
[17:41:10] <coldelectrons> Non-comp: 0.067" wall thickness
[17:41:25] <coldelectrons> comp: 0.070" wall thickness
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[18:12:13] <KimK> coldelectrons: Do you know the true (actual) tool diameters? Are the tools new, used, or regrinds?
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[18:18:07] <Jymmm> KimK: foam
[18:18:49] <KimK> Hi Jymmm. Foam?
[18:19:02] <Jymmm> KimK: foam tooling
[18:19:56] <KimK> Ah. Must be made by the same company that makes those cheap bendable drill bits I run across once in awhile.
[18:20:46] <Tom_itx> made to drill around corners?
[18:20:47] <Tom_itx> :D
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[18:22:26] <IchGuckLive> im searching fo some nice dxf to mill with kids under 10years
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[18:23:29] <JT-Shop> I made christmas ornaments with my grandkids on the plasma cutter :) found lots of dxf's on the zone
[18:23:55] <IchGuckLive> cnc-zone ?
[18:24:00] <JT-Shop> yea
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[18:24:13] <JT-Shop> you might find some that could be milled
[18:24:27] <KimK> How about spelling out their names in a font? Cradek's True-Type-Tracer can do TTF text to DXF.
[18:24:30] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: what time is it?
[18:25:03] <IchGuckLive> here its 22:24 sat
[18:25:14] <JT-Shop> no, it's nap time :)
[18:26:17] <IchGuckLive> im now in cnczone.com
[18:26:43] <IchGuckLive> what shoudt i search for dxf is not a good idee
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[18:26:48] <psha> IchGuckLive: i thought that you are closer to GMT then i'am - and here it's just 21:25
[18:27:03] <IchGuckLive> ?
[18:27:09] <psha> 21:25 < IchGuckLive> here its 22:24 sat
[18:27:22] <IchGuckLive> im not at hoe in DE
[18:27:49] <psha> somewhere in asia?
[18:29:21] <IchGuckLive> no commant
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[18:34:22] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: i coudt not find any dxf file
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[18:39:28] <atmega> for what?
[18:40:18] <atmega> oh... there is a thread with thousands of replies full of dxfs and other stuff for cutting. Not sure how many are applicable to milling, but surely some are
[18:40:48] <IchGuckLive> link ?
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[18:48:17] <KimK> coldelectrons: Did you solve your problem yet? I tried to load your program and got a radius error warning on line 17, so that's as far as I got. Are you running this on EMC2?
[18:48:56] <KimK> coldelectrons: It looks like it's CAM generated from the six-digit format.
[18:50:11] <KimK> coldelectrons: It looks like the CAM is programming toolpath for you? Can you post the dimensions of the desired outcome?
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[19:24:11] <cradek> coldelectrons: what feature are you measuring on the final part? if it's outer corners, it may very well be different if you programmed them 'sharp' because cutter comp programs an arc around the corner centered on the corner
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[19:24:27] <cradek> darn
[19:27:26] <cradek> if the material and cut are perfect it should be the same final result, but if anything's springy I bet it's different (if nothing else, the arced path will remove the flashing that the sharp path usually leaves)
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[19:28:15] <KimK> cradek: Thanks for trying to help. Maybe he'll be back later.
[19:28:45] <cradek> sure - it's a wild-ass guess but worth thinking about if he's measuring in small numbers
[19:29:13] <cradek> cutter comp is mathematically correct so I suspect it's something subtle like this causing the difference.
[19:30:40] <KimK> BTW, you wanted to walk me through an example git push before clearing me to create mayhem on my own. Is today a good day for that? If so, I'll try to find something trivial that I can fix as an example.
[19:31:02] <cradek> sure, shouldn't take too long. is your key set up already?
[19:32:23] <KimK> It should be from last time, but apparently it's limited to git pushes or something? I tried to add it to the SSH icon menu (I'm set up for SSH to GoDaddy now), but that didn't work, git-only, I guess?
[19:32:24] <cradek> wonder what cutter diameter he has - these arcs are sure small
[19:32:49] <cradek> um, I have no idea what an ssh icon menu is
[19:33:44] <cradek> can you get a clone using it? git clone ssh://git.linuxcnc.org/git/emc2.git ssh-devel
[19:34:02] <KimK> It's an add-on to the upper taskbar in Ubuntu (like the weather ones, I'm running 5 of those!), just click and it logs you onto a remote SSH terminal of your choice.
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[19:34:38] <KimK> (could me lower taskbar too, maybe?)
[19:34:42] <KimK> s/me/be
[19:35:45] <KimK> Is that the only link I need? Don't I need my user name there somewhere?
[19:35:59] <cradek> oops you're right, ssh://yourname@...
[19:37:29] <tom3p> are these thingys called 'flextures' ? http://imagebin.org/133881 http://imagebin.org/133882 http://imagebin.org/133883
[19:37:31] <cradek> guessing about .005 tool - about the largest the arcs all make sense
[19:38:50] <KimK> cradek: Looks like it's loading. Shall I stop it?
[19:39:24] <cradek> no, let it go, since you'll have to do your work in that one
[19:40:09] <KimK> Oh, I have to work in ssh-devel rather than emc2-devel?
[19:40:20] <cradek> you must be in an ssh clone to push
[19:40:32] <cradek> can't push to a git:// type clone
[19:40:36] <cradek> er FROM
[19:41:19] <Vq> or add a push:able remote
[19:41:46] <KimK> OK. Oh! Actually, I'm on the wrong system then. I should actually be in the VB 8.04 system. I don't know if my keys are there yet, let me check...
[19:42:49] <Vq> or simply work around the need to push :)
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[19:45:23] <psha> cradek: you may push but you need to say where
[19:46:20] <psha> for example 'git remote add ssh ssh://git.linucnc.org....'
[19:46:24] <psha> then git push ssh branch-name
[19:46:36] <psha> this will protect from accidental pushes
[19:47:26] <KimK> I'd like to keep things simple, lol. How about if I delete my emc2-devel folders and re-clone them using ssh?
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[19:47:41] <cradek> KimK: I verified that a .005 dia tool gives a .0025 dia offset (to nobody's great surprise, including mine, I'm sure)
[19:47:55] <cradek> couldn't hurt - you'll never make the frustrating mistake of making changes in the wrong one.
[19:48:16] <KimK> excellent, ad coldelectrons has just rejoined. There you go coldelectrons.
[19:48:17] <cradek> but psha's advice is good too - whatever you want to try
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[19:48:21] <KimK> s/ad/and
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[19:49:36] <KimK> coldelectrons: Did you hear that cradek has an answer to your problem?
[19:49:44] <psha> KimK: my repo has 1 read-only remote (git.linuxcnc.org) and 2 read-write remotes (psha.org.ru and grid.pp.ru)
[19:49:48] <psha> that's done via 'git remote add'
[19:49:59] <psha> and i'm happy with it :)
[19:50:04] <UnderSampled> on the Chinese 3 Axis TB6560 CNC Stepper Motor Driver board, what does the spindle output do?
[19:50:05] <coldelectrons> what'd I miss?
[19:50:27] <psha> err, 3 read-only repos :)
[19:50:37] <coldelectrons> Hm...it's been too long. How do you call up a log of the channel?
[19:50:42] <UnderSampled> can you control the speed?
[19:50:45] <psha> coldelectrons: ask logger[psha]
[19:50:49] <UnderSampled> or is it just on/off
[19:50:50] <psha> or logger_emc
[19:51:08] <psha> logger[psha]: ping
[19:51:11] <psha> logger[psha]: bookmark
[19:51:15] <psha> oops
[19:51:18] <psha> logger_emc: bookmark
[19:51:19] <logger_emc> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2011-01-22.txt
[19:51:51] <psha> the_wench: bookmark
[19:52:03] <psha> that one is logger too :)
[19:54:50] <coldelectrons> FINally - paste.pocoo.org was choking on my dxf: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/325004/
[19:54:50] <coldelectrons> There you go, KimK
[19:56:33] <coldelectrons> Cradek: Should I be worried about software bugs if I'm still using emc2.3.0?
[19:56:50] <cradek> you betcha
[19:56:51] <psha> coldelectrons: at least you don't have bugs introduced later ;)
[19:57:49] <cradek> you should *definitely* update to the lastest 2.3 release. you should *almost certainly* update to the latest 2.4 release.
[19:58:11] <cradek> and don't worry - emc only gets better
[19:58:42] <cradek> bbl
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[19:59:01] <coldelectrons> If I rolled my eyes anymore, either they'd fall out of my head, or I'd get a natural 1 -- of course there are bugs, why am I asking?
[20:00:16] <coldelectrons> I know it gets better - I've been using it for several years now
[20:01:04] <coldelectrons> If I had to buy you guys a beer everytime you added something or fixed a bug, I'd have one serious bar tab if every we meet
[20:01:15] <coldelectrons> s/every/ever
[20:01:35] <UnderSampled> Does anyone know>
[20:01:59] <KimK> cradek: Both systems are recloning right now, so we must have handled the keys already. Thanks, see you when you get back. I'll look for something in the docs to fix as a test.
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[20:02:33] <KimK> coldelectrons: Are you coming to the Ann Arbor conference in what, June?
[20:03:22] * KimK guesses he'd better update the wiki news already, yikes!
[20:03:59] <tom3p> seems the joint model is a 'flexure' and 'flexture' is just another english variant (color colour mold mould ) http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/117939/files/CaliSigma6Fazenda.pdf
[20:04:21] <tom3p> KimK, Ann Arbor conference? emc related?
[20:05:32] <KimK> Yes, same location as last year.
[20:06:00] <KimK> I'll be back in a minute with the details.
[20:08:12] <coldelectrons> KimK: I doubt I'll attending any conferences this year
[20:08:34] <KimK> June 21-24, 2011 at Washtenaw Community College in Ann Arbor.
[20:08:54] <coldelectrons> KimK: Besides, I'm just a user at this point - I haven't made any contributions besides an aborted attempt at a wiki page and kernel build for debian/testing
[20:10:43] <coldelectrons> (and what coding I've been doing is Minecraft-related)
[20:10:48] <UnderSampled> on the Chinese 3 Axis TB6560 CNC Stepper Motor Driver board, what does the spindle output do? Is it possible to control the spindle speed, or is it just on/off
[20:10:51] <UnderSampled> ?
[20:11:52] <KimK> coldelectrons: Most attendees are users, by far. They try to hold classes for users too. I held an introductory class for EMC2 users (and prospective users, hopefully, since there were a lot of Mach folks there).
[20:12:04] <KimK> UnderSampled: what kind of an output is it?
[20:12:16] <tom3p> KimK, thx
[20:12:17] <UnderSampled> KimK: I don't know, that's why I'm asking
[20:12:34] <KimK> Is there a data sheet?
[20:12:57] <KimK> Or can you post a link to one?
[20:13:28] <UnderSampled> KimK: http://cgi.ebay.com/12-36V-3A-TB6560-3-Axis-CNC-Motor-Driver-Stepper-NEW-/290415487275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439e1ca92b
[20:13:31] <KimK> Are you looking at buying this, or do you have it already?
[20:13:42] <UnderSampled> I've purchased it, but it's still on it's way
[20:13:42] <KimK> Ah, eBay, nevermind
[20:13:55] <KimK> Oh, OK, you fooled me
[20:14:04] <UnderSampled> how did I fool you?
[20:14:17] <KimK> I thought you were just looking at it
[20:14:21] <UnderSampled> oh
[20:14:28] <UnderSampled> no, I've purchased it
[20:16:22] <coldelectrons> Ah yes, I love the adventure of "Now, what did I just buy?"
[20:16:42] <tom3p> UnderSampled, is it one of thes? ( and which one ) http://hyu68.com/cp8.htm
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[20:16:54] <KimK> The eBay ad contains a link to the real data sheet, looking at it now... http://www.goodluckbuy.com/upload/uploads/file/Tb6560ahq.pdf
[20:17:35] <UnderSampled> KimK: that's the IC's datasheet, not the board it'self
[20:17:37] <KimK> Nevermind, that's just the stepper chip.
[20:17:45] <UnderSampled> I think the board has multiple of them
[20:17:54] <UnderSampled> tom3p: probably
[20:18:36] <tom3p> probably there is some information for you, somewhere
[20:18:57] <UnderSampled> tom3p: I'd guess the 'HY-TA4DV-M"
[20:19:38] <tom3p> that chip doesnt speak to spindles,it speaks to motors, the board you have is wired in some way to control the spindle, that info is NOT on the chip spec
[20:19:40] <KimK> So, hard telling for sure, but the text has this: "Relay spindle interface - Outputs Max. 36V 7.5A for spindle motors or coolant pump (only one device can be powered by this output!)"
[20:19:45] <tom3p> best look to the seller
[20:20:26] <KimK> Only one relay on the board, so probably only on/off, not rev/off/fwd. Just my guess though.
[20:20:52] <UnderSampled> ak
[20:20:56] <UnderSampled> ok
[20:21:06] <tom3p> KimK, is the spindle mentioned in the Toshiba pdf?
[20:21:15] <UnderSampled> so, good for a fan, not for an extruder
[20:21:30] <KimK> I blew through it pretty fast, but I don't think so.
[20:22:15] <tom3p> acrobat search cant find spindle
[20:22:45] <tom3p> you want pwm for heat control?
[20:23:18] <KimK> UnderSampled: Where an extruder must be variable-speed? Yeah, then like variable spindle speed, maybe not the best controller for that.
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[20:32:36] <tom3p> UnderSampled, if your board has an unused axis you might use the spare stepper output for a spindle control...
[20:32:36] <tom3p> speed limited by speed range and any gearing you introduce between motor and spindle
[20:32:49] <UnderSampled> no, it's 3 axis
[20:32:59] <tom3p> or try to 'upgrade' to 4 or 5 axis model
[20:32:59] <UnderSampled> and I might even have a use for a 4th one
[20:33:42] <UnderSampled> I think it's cheaper to buy a less powerful driver/motor combo for the other axis
[20:34:04] <UnderSampled> I only need the high power/torque for the Cartesian half
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[21:10:36] <coldelectrons> Ugh.
[21:10:38] <coldelectrons> I wrote a test program for the cutter comp
[21:10:38] <coldelectrons> First, measure the cutter with mic
[21:10:51] <coldelectrons> Brand new 0.0313 cutter - measures 0.0305
[21:12:17] <coldelectrons> Run the test program several times, adjusting as I go...
[21:12:18] <coldelectrons> Final result, exactly on size as best I can measure, with a cutter dia comp of 0.0283"
[21:13:22] <coldelectrons> It seems part of my variation previously was that I was taking too much off on finish pass, or not enough passes
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[21:15:55] <coldelectrons> But still, needing to use a diameter of 0.0283"?
[21:16:35] <coldelectrons> These cutters are supposedly guaranteed to be +-0.0005"
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[21:35:25] <KimK> Is that g-code still from a CAM program? Maybe your CAM program is making some assumptions you're not aware of?
[21:36:48] <archivist> a mic will crush the edge and give a low reading
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[21:56:05] <JT-Shop> I use my old mics for precision c clamps...
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[22:01:44] <tom3p> ( the ones with the channel-lock marks on the thimbles )
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[22:10:28] <JT-Shop> no, just regular plier marks
[22:13:41] <archivist> hehe
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[23:13:21] <coldelectrons> KimK: The gcode is from Qcad/Camexpert, and works mostly like a WYSIWYG 2.5D editor - it doesn't make the toolpaths, I have to draw them.
[23:13:43] <coldelectrons> Which is fine for my usage
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[23:16:01] <KimK> OK. Have you tried drawing the finished dimensions, and using tool diameter comp on them?
[23:16:20] <coldelectrons> archivist: that depends on how good you are with your mic :)
[23:17:04] <coldelectrons> KimK: yes, that's how I'm currently working right now
[23:18:34] <KimK> OK, great. That should work out better in the long run for you I think. Although there might be a few hiccups in the beginning. Maybe you're past that already?
[23:18:36] <coldelectrons> The old programs with manual offsets was because we were using an old DOS-based CNC controller program (blech)
[23:19:33] <KimK> Excellent, glad you're getting good use from EMC2.
[23:21:15] <coldelectrons> KimK: Where's the information on the conference?
[23:21:52] <coldelectrons> I tried googling 'emcfest', and found a group of electrical engineers in Michigan
[23:22:17] <JT-Shop> when one is scheduled it is on the wiki
[23:26:48] <KimK> Putting it there now...
[23:27:12] <bootnecklad> http://imgur.com/a/WQX6q
[23:27:14] <bootnecklad> :D
[23:31:00] <elmo401> bootnecklad: different...
[23:31:22] <elmo401> what is pdp?
[23:33:47] <bootnecklad> personal data processor
[23:33:54] <bootnecklad> uno like a pdp-8 or pdp-11
[23:34:07] <bootnecklad> a guy in southampton has an 11/23
[23:34:21] <bootnecklad> and it has working RX02 8"floppys
[23:34:32] <elmo401> 8" floppies?
[23:34:35] <bootnecklad> yeah
[23:34:41] <bootnecklad> but we'd rather not use them as they are almost 30 years old and servicing them is like 300
[23:34:43] <bootnecklad> sorryy
[23:34:44] <bootnecklad> 800
[23:34:50] <bootnecklad> so we are building interface board
[23:35:01] <bootnecklad> so a linux box can emulate the drive
[23:35:09] <bootnecklad> http://www.chd.dyndns.org/rx02/
[23:35:13] <bootnecklad> built the board today
[23:35:17] <bootnecklad> but it wasnt working properly
[23:35:30] <bootnecklad> not sure if its the program or something but
[23:35:36] <bootnecklad> yeah! orrsim stuff
[23:44:30] <KimK> coldelectrons, JT-Shop: OK, 2011 CNC Workshop now on Wiki. (Although I confess I feel like one of those retailers who takes down the Halloween decorations and immediately puts up the Christmas decorations.)
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[23:44:43] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:47:18] <Jymmm> KimK You would be a lousy retailer since they put up the xmas decorations in August.
[23:47:26] <KimK> I wouldn't have posted it except that I see you have to grab the early discount during Jan/Feb (before March 1), and it's already "half-past January". They might extend the deadline though. I think they did last time.
[23:47:44] <KimK> Ha, yeah, you're probably right.
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[23:48:54] <Jymmm> HAWT DAMN!!! I picked up some 2/56" screws!!!
[23:49:51] <KimK> bootnecklad: That's an interesting project, is there a project page? (with schematics, etc.?) Have they tried running any of the PDP-8 and PDP-11 simulators available in Synaptic?
[23:49:59] <Jymmm> One length fits all, since they only had one length available! But behold the power of a shit load of 2/56" nuts stacked!!!
[23:50:25] <KimK> Jymmm: Making something small?
[23:50:38] <bootnecklad> KimK http://www.chd.dyndns.org/rx02/ is the origin
[23:50:54] <bootnecklad> a few people have built them, but i have no idea if they work with simulators
[23:50:57] <bootnecklad> i read a while ago
[23:51:07] <bootnecklad> i *think* that one particular simulator
[23:51:11] <bootnecklad> produces a disk image
[23:51:17] <bootnecklad> which this interface can read
[23:51:33] <bootnecklad> so for example, I can take the real RT-11 OS discs
[23:51:44] <bootnecklad> and make a disc image to use with the simulator
[23:51:47] <bootnecklad> which is neat
[23:52:27] <Jymmm> KimK: the laser engraver didn't come with an air assist kit, and I'm having a hard tie justifying paying $1200 for a couple of valves, some tubing, and a few brackets. So gantry arm is pre-threaded with 2/56" and I'll make my only brackets/fixtures.
[23:52:45] <bootnecklad> KimK although, i havent seen any in synaptic, ill have to take a look tomorrow
[23:54:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's GET YOU ASS ON THE COUCH TIME!!!
[23:54:12] <Jymmm> OFF
[23:55:57] <bootnecklad> damn
[23:58:19] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I'm welding
[23:58:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Where can I get a 40, 55, or 80cf nitrogen tank cheap?
[23:59:25] <JT-Shop> dunno I don't play with nitrogen
[23:59:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ok, argon then
[23:59:51] <KimK> bootnecklad: I should have said emulators, I think that's where they're listed under.