#emc | Logs for 2011-01-06

[00:00:50] <TonnyG> sound good to me
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[00:05:55] <emcrules_mobile> has anyone tried to run cimco edit under wine?
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[00:17:40] <TonnyG> Thanks Mr.Andypugh! u the best.
[00:26:52] <andypugh> I have added a paragraph on why stepper mode is silly: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BLDC
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[00:30:53] <TonnyG> :)
[00:31:04] <TonnyG> mesa is good then
[00:32:12] <skunkworks> I use mesa and love it.
[00:32:27] <JT-Shop> ditto
[00:32:50] <andypugh> Yeah, me too. Though I try to be even-handed and always mention Pico too.
[00:33:27] <andypugh> I sometimes mention Pluto, but only in the context of "Don't, no, really, don't"
[00:33:28] <skunkworks> The hmc I am retrofitting has 2 5i20's with a 7i33 and 7imumble (6 analog axis card)
[00:34:08] <skunkworks> andypugh: I learned a lot with the pluto. worked fine for me - but you get a heck of a lot more with mesa for like $10 more
[00:34:34] <TonnyG> how s pluto works?
[00:34:50] <andypugh> My impression is that if the Pluto works it is fine, but if it doesn't you might never find out why.
[00:34:55] <TonnyG> it use fpga also
[00:35:05] <skunkworks> pluto is a poorly made fpga with limited space ;)
[00:35:28] <skunkworks> andypugh: could be - I guess I only used it on my laptop/
[00:35:45] <andypugh> I think so, it plugs into the P-Port like the 7i43. Unlike the 7i43 it doesn't always manage to communicate with the P-port or act on all the commands sent.
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[00:36:04] <skunkworks> and it has less i/o and less options.
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[00:36:35] <TonnyG> i see.
[00:36:38] <TonnyG> :)
[00:36:57] <andypugh> As far as bang for the buck goes the 7i43 is brilliant, and probably all that any normal CNC machine needs
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[00:37:28] <skunkworks> agreed :)
[00:37:40] <emcrules_mobile> I agree its pretty sweet at the end of the day
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[00:38:09] <andypugh> Time to try sleeping I think.
[00:38:13] <andypugh> Night all.
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[00:38:15] <bdale> I'm consistently getting an error about unexpected realtime delay on task 1 on Axis startup, then things seem fine, on a machine that shows worst-case jitter numbers of under 13k on a long run of the latency test. should I be worried about this?
[00:38:27] <TonnyG> Thanks again mr.Andypugh!
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[00:39:02] <TonnyG> night!
[00:40:26] <Valen> bdale: I sometimes get that as a result of starting the openGL window
[00:40:44] <Valen> bdale: try running latency test, then starting glxgears
[00:41:28] <bdale> Valen: I've tried that, numbers are still in the 13-14k range
[00:41:43] <Valen> is there a spike when you *start* gears?
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[00:42:16] <bdale> what do you mean by spike? increase of a few hundred ns, maybe
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[00:42:39] <Valen> i see a spike of ~30k when opening an opengl window
[00:42:48] <bdale> no, I don't see that
[00:44:53] <bdale> I've got another machine that latency tests slightly worse (in the 20k range), just trying to cover the bases before I swap to that one and see how it performs .. this is an IH 3-axis mill I've set up using pluto-servo, fwiw
[00:46:36] <bdale> if I click through the error, all seems to run fine afterwards
[00:49:33] <JT-Shop> you only get the warning once!
[00:49:45] <bdale> correct
[00:50:00] <Valen> what he means, is if it happens again, it won't tell you about it
[00:50:05] <Valen> which is sucky to my mind
[00:50:09] <bdale> yes, I understand
[00:50:12] <JT-Shop> very sucky
[00:50:26] <Valen> is there some reason for that?
[00:50:31] <bdale> just wish I understood what it meant better
[00:50:41] <Valen> other than its easier to squelch it that way
[00:51:08] <Valen> it means that the fast thread didn't happen at least once
[00:51:16] <JT-Shop> the warning means you don't get steps on time
[00:51:37] <bdale> which I care less about since I'm using a pluto card in servo mode, not sw generation of steps, but point taken
[00:51:37] <JT-Shop> so the path generated may not be correct
[00:51:56] <Valen> whatever task 1 is was meant to happen 1000 times a second (or whatever) but something happened that made it not run one of those times
[00:52:42] <bdale> ok, it just seems weird that on a machine that has latency numbers well below 20k and a base thread period of 100k, this is happening
[00:53:21] <JT-Shop> how long did you run the latency test?
[00:53:44] <JT-Shop> some problems with hardware can be minutes apart
[00:53:44] <bdale> I've run it different lengths different times .. longest was several hours with lots of random activity
[00:54:01] <bdale> current run is at least 15 minutes in
[00:54:09] <bdale> and max is 15750
[00:54:48] <bdale> I guess I should probably just try the other machine I have that I could use instead of pulling out my hair over this
[00:56:27] <JT-Shop> after you get the error did you check the dmesg?
[00:56:32] <bdale> yes
[00:57:21] <JT-Shop> and it said something to the effect the last run was so large...
[00:57:26] <bdale> yes
[00:57:38] <bdale> [ 999.663710] In recent history there were
[00:57:38] <bdale> [ 999.663712] 223614, 132924, 163387, 181233, and 178452
[00:57:38] <bdale> [ 999.663714] elapsed clocks between calls to the motion controller.
[00:57:38] <bdale> [ 999.663793] This time, there were 181163 which is so anomalously
[00:57:39] <bdale> [ 999.663795] large that it probably signifies a problem with your
[00:58:14] <JT-Shop> yea, something is hogging the cpu
[00:58:17] <bdale> which just seems weird, since the 'this time' number is median of the others
[00:58:31] <JT-Shop> screen saver is disabled
[00:58:42] <JT-Shop> ?
[00:58:48] <bdale> hrm, not sure about that .. checking
[00:59:14] <JT-Shop> I had one machine that the screen saver just before it kicked in hogged the cpu or something
[00:59:22] <bdale> enabled but not active, just disabled it
[01:01:10] <bdale> maybe I'll swap out the video card and see if that helps before I swap the entire machine (which would mean moving the hard drive, etc) .. bbiab
[01:01:24] <JT-Shop> yep good things to try
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[01:16:17] <Valen> soaking CPU shouldn't cause it an issue
[01:16:22] <Valen> thats the point of rtai
[01:16:42] <Valen> "really should work" is the dual core atom boards
[01:19:57] <skunkworks> bdale: 100k base thread?
[01:20:14] <skunkworks> do you need a base thread? with the pluto I would think you would only need the servo thread.
[01:26:55] <skunkworks> also are you trying to run the thread the pluto is in at 100k? that might be way to fast.
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[01:45:28] <morfic_> how many pins can i connect(?) to sampler before sampler can't keep the FIFO filled? any guesstimate that could be done? to make sure i give my boss a realistic amount of data we can capture, looking at test.hal in stepgen0 test dir, i am refering to this: net n0 stepgen.0.dir sampler.0.pin.0
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[01:48:05] <bdale> skunkworks: you are correct that I only have one thread, and it's set for 100k
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[01:50:16] <skunkworks> that is probably your problem. the pluto driver might not be able to run at 100k - that is .1ms - 1ms should work though (1000k)
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[01:50:51] <bdale> interesting .. I've gotten dragged off to be family-oriented for a while, will give that a try when I get back to it later
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[02:18:59] <mole|2> Hi, trying to restore an emc machine from backups
[02:20:26] <mole|2> and getting threads error. Google shows this has been discussed here a while ago... HAL_LIB error: new thread period 50000000 is less than existing thread period
[02:21:33] <mole|2> and the advice was to change the thread period so the threads are craeted from fastest to slowest
[02:22:26] <mole|2> anyone know how I can do that? Make the servo thread really slow? Runs through a modified 5i20
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[08:15:44] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html#post874370
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[10:01:23] <lilalinux> aloha
[10:02:05] <lilalinux> Is there a gcode vor an arc in xy-plane, that at the same time variies z vom start to end (linearly is sufficient)
[10:02:16] <lilalinux> s/vom/from/
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[10:38:25] <lilalinux> got it, G2/G3 with Z
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[11:50:22] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omGHeVmv6NI&feature=player_embedded
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[12:04:13] <MattyMatt> if instead of 120deg, the arms were at 5 deg apart (i.e. overlapping & intermeshed) it'd be more humanoid
[12:04:29] <MattyMatt> deltabots are cool tho, for speed
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[13:39:38] <Valen> dunno whats so optimal about it
[13:39:52] <Valen> hah dropped one
[13:39:54] <Valen> not optimal
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[13:50:13] <skunkworks> bookmark
[13:50:13] <the_wench> http://emclog.archivist.info/
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[13:54:22] <psha> skunkworks: there is alternative log at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23emc-devel/
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[13:56:13] <psha> oops, i mean /emc/
[13:56:23] <psha> logger[psha]: ping
[14:00:20] <skunkworks> psha: cool!
[14:00:26] <skunkworks> options
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[15:02:21] <awallin> whats a "bob" ? for a plasma cutter?
[15:02:39] <atmega> break out box?
[15:03:02] <awallin> oh. nothing fancy then :)
[15:03:17] <atmega> I've never seen a plasma cutter
[15:03:46] <atmega> no clue... maybe they have some other bob?
[15:08:06] <atmega> you have/had a BF20?
[15:10:03] <awallin> a seriously modified/upgraded one, together with my friend who is more of a machinist
[15:10:50] <atmega> are they worthwhile?
[15:11:12] <atmega> grizzly is supposed to have G0704's back in stock next month. It's supposed to be a BF20
[15:11:20] <awallin> for cnc-conversion it depends on what your goals are
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[15:11:46] <awallin> we upgraded ours over many years bit by bit, so maybe the overall cost doesn't seem so bad
[15:11:58] <atmega> mainly delrin, alum, brass, maybe some stainless
[15:12:18] <awallin> but if you would do all the upgrades right away its probably best to invest in something that is more suited for cnc from the beginning
[15:12:42] <awallin> I think the dovetail ways might work for cnc better on a big machine where the table is very heavy
[15:13:04] <atmega> whatever I get will pobably just be steppers on existing lead screws first
[15:13:29] <awallin> so basically: linear rails + ballscrews + new spindle = a lot of upgrading...
[15:14:28] <atmega> those rails don't look too sturdy? are they ok with side loads?
[15:15:08] <awallin> I think the rails on our machine are 15mm (IKO brand).
[15:15:48] <awallin> if you have <2kW on the spindle the cutter forces will never be that high... the column deflects more than rails/small-ballscrews etc
[15:16:33] <atmega> any opinion on that vs. an X3 for conversion?
[15:17:44] <awallin> something like this would be nice for an emc2 project: http://img.alibaba.com/photo/219009190/small_micro_CNC_DIY_milling_XH400_frame.jpg
[15:17:55] <awallin> but that frame alone is 5-6k + taxes and shipping
[15:18:33] <awallin> I haven't seen an x3 in real life... looks similar to bf20
[15:18:33] <nullie> we have cheaper micro cnc available
[15:19:18] <awallin> the stock bf20 has an mk2 spindle I think. not the fastest to change manually. some R8 or other quick change would be nice on a machine without atc
[15:24:41] <atmega> the grizzly version has R8
[15:25:46] <atmega> http://grizzly.com/products/G0704
[15:26:17] <atmega> but, it seems awfully light to be that big
[15:27:46] <awallin> it looks like the bf20 version with the longer table
[15:29:14] <awallin> here's about the most hard-core thing our mill does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5h1-K_lt6k
[15:29:44] <awallin> the grim truth is that you want linear rails, ballscrews, a 2kW or more spindle, and servos with encoder feedback to do that
[15:30:51] <awallin> sure you can try with dovetails, the stock spindle, and steppers... but our experience is that it will only result in headache... :)
[15:33:31] <atmega> that will be true with any machine though?
[15:35:56] <awallin> pretty much. with a full-size bridgeport style manual machine I think you would not have to replace the dovetail ways. only install ballscrews instead of the screws for manual operation
[15:36:44] <atmega> no room for one of those
[15:36:58] <awallin> If I would have the cash and especially the space I would consider a chinese mini-vmc frame, or maybe a lightly used second hand vmc with broken control.
[15:39:34] <awallin> atmega: would you have space for this: http://www.optimum-maschinen.de/produkte/fraesmaschinen/wf20vario/index.html
[15:40:21] <atmega> probably, but, it looks way more expensive than the grizzly
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[15:44:00] <atmega> that grizzly bf20 and their X3 are the same price. The X3 has less travel and the stated spindle motor specs are lower
[15:44:21] <atmega> but the shipping weight is 50% more
[15:52:44] <dimas__> awallin, what is the smallest spindle system suitable for ATC? for desktop size milling machine
[15:53:44] <awallin> iso30 is what the mini vmc's use I think
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[15:54:00] <dimas__> thanks
[15:54:22] <awallin> the haas officemill might use iso20, but I haven't seen a lot of tooling for that in the catalogs..
[15:54:27] <cradek> you can put a tool changer on anything - machines that drill circuit boards can use 1/8 tools with depth rings in a collet
[15:54:34] <awallin> might be different where you are
[15:55:31] <awallin> the spindle is probably a large part of the cost of a vmc
[15:55:43] <dimas__> cradek, can you give an example link?
[15:56:18] <cradek> not really
[15:56:28] <cradek> I mean, I could search, but I didn't
[15:56:57] <cradek> I just meant that there is probably no minimum size for a spindle that changes tools automatically
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[15:58:47] <dimas__> I mean standart/popular one, no way for any special /exotic
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[16:02:22] <awallin> theres something called HSK25 also, but I bet those toolholders are rare and expensive
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[16:04:51] <dimas__> thanks, I will search with those names
[16:04:57] <dimas__> [319452.572907] config string '0x378 out '
[16:04:57] <dimas__> [319452.572923] PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[16:05:07] <dimas__> got error on emc2 startup
[16:05:23] <dimas__> what I can try to reload?
[16:05:36] <awallin> do you have a parport at 378, according to the bios ?
[16:06:31] <dimas__> it was all working
[16:06:41] <dimas__> did not change anything
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[16:18:56] <dimas_> brb
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[16:44:10] <bdale> skunkworks: looks like you might have been right about my trying to run the pluto driver too often .. now I just have to figure out how to slow it down *and* keep my charge pump output above 3khz at the same time .. sigh
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[17:42:45] <skunkworks> bdale: great!
[17:44:03] <skullworks> On a non-EMC related topic - Can anyone tell me or point me to where I can find out the limits of the file system for a "fakeRaid" raid5 on 10.04?
[17:45:43] <skunkworks> you probaby need to make another thread that is runnning 160k (160000ns) with your charge pump in (if I did that right)
[17:45:55] <skullworks> I would love to setup a 4x 2TB array using 3 active with 1 spare in Raid 5 but I'm not sure if the 32bit version can cope.
[17:46:35] <bdale> yes, I've been working on that, but I'm seeing a weirdness where even when I put the charge pump function on the faster thread, it seems to output a square wave at the freq I'd expect if it were on the slower thread ... debugging that now
[17:49:50] <skunkworks> bdale: you need it in a thread that runs 2x the charge pump frequency
[17:50:07] * bdale gets distracted for a while by the unexpected early arrival of a huge box containing the new production run of TeleMetrum boards .. http://altusmetrum.org
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[17:50:44] <bdale> skunkworks: right, I understand that .. trying to set a base thread period of 100000 and a servo thread period of 500000 just isn't doing what I expect ... will get back to it in a bit, once I take a look at my new toys. ;-)
[17:51:20] <bdale> I'm getting a 1khz output, which is consistent with the charge pump actually being on the servo thread when I *think* I'm putting it on the base thread
[17:51:33] <bdale> should be 5khz ...
[17:52:12] <awallin> the periods are in nanoseconds
[17:53:07] <awallin> if you want a 5 kHz square wave out your baser-period needs to be 1/(10 khz) seconds
[17:53:33] <awallin> thats 100 microseconds, or 100 000 nanoseconds
[17:53:35] <awallin> I think...
[17:53:53] <skunkworks> sounds right
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[17:54:32] * skunkworks was calculating it for 3khz
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[18:00:32] <bdale> right, I figured since I was running 100000 before and the charge pump worked, I'd just put the base thread back to that, which keeps the servo thread a nice integer multiple of the base thread
[18:01:02] <bdale> the spec on the charge pump board is that it needs at least 3khz, feeding it 5khz for now should be fine
[18:01:25] <awallin> what HAL do you have for the charge-pump output?
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[18:01:42] <bdale> addf charge-pump base-thread
[18:01:52] <bdale> net charge-pump <= charge-pump.out
[18:01:52] <bdale> net charge-pump => pluto-servo.dout.08
[18:01:52] <bdale> setp charge-pump.enable 1
[18:02:13] <bdale> oh
[18:02:14] <bdale> I get it
[18:02:29] <bdale> even if the charge pump output is changing faster, the pluto isn't
[18:02:39] <bdale> so I'm rate limited to the pluto output update rate
[18:02:56] <awallin> the fpga should be clocked at MHz ?
[18:03:08] <bdale> yeah, but the pluto write task is on the servo thread
[18:03:29] <awallin> ok
[18:03:37] <bdale> hrm
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[18:04:32] <bdale> so, ideally, I'd like to clock the pluto write faster .. either that, or I need to find another output to drive the charge pump .. or I need to hack the charge pump's firmware to accept a lower clock rate
[18:04:44] <bdale> frankly, hacking the charge pump to accept 1khz seems like the *best* answer
[18:04:56] <bdale> there's no earthly reason it needs to be clocked so fast
[18:06:19] <skullworks> add a second lpt port for charge pump and any extra I/O you don't want to run through the Pluto?
[18:06:41] <bdale> I could, but everything I need maps into the pluto just fine
[18:07:07] <bdale> and the way I've built up the NEMA box full of electronics, having to run another cable from the PC would be annoying. clearly not impossible, just annoying.
[18:09:04] <skullworks> just wondering - did you but the pluto on the back of the PC and run cables, or a cable to the box with the pluto in it?
[18:10:35] <bdale> 25-pin cable to the box, with the pluto mounted on a custom breakout board inside the box .. works great
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[18:11:39] <bdale> box is mounted on the wall next to the mill, PC chassis sits on top of the box
[18:12:08] <skullworks> yeah that is the pluto's big fault - it needed a good daughter board, breakout board.
[18:12:14] <bdale> someday I'll get some pix up on my web site .. too much other stuff going on to take time right now
[18:12:46] <bdale> actually, I think it'd be easy to build a pluto compatible board that does all this stuff right .. if there'd be sufficient interest, I may do that at some point
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[18:14:11] <bdale> just sent Arturo an email asking if there's a 1khz version of the firmware for the micro on the C4 board, or if not whether I can have the source to hack it myself
[18:15:11] <bdale> since it's using a micro to count pulses and not an analog filter, it should be a simple firmware mod
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[18:22:19] <skullworks> come soo far yet... using a micro means you can't really have user selectable jumper settings like you could with a regular capacitor circuit.
[18:27:09] <SWPLinux> bdale: if you're not using all the stepgens/PWMgens on the pluto, you could hook one of those output to the charge pump
[18:27:37] <SWPLinux> the pluto has a watchdog, so it will stop sending the steps/PWM if emc crashes or shuts down
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[18:30:42] <bdale> SWPLinux: currently I'm only using 3 of the pwm channels, but I intend to use the fourth eventually. so it could be a good short term hack, but not a good long term solution. the CNC4PC C4 board I picked up uses the Microchip 12F629 .. if for some reason Arturo doesn't want to share and/or doesn't have an alternate firmware image, that's well within my ability to just write replacement firmware for. hope I don't have to, though.
[18:32:19] <SWPLinux> oh well :)
[18:33:13] <awallin> heres a pretty nice build http://mikaj.pic.fi/kuvat/NC/
[18:33:23] <awallin> need some big iron to machine those parts...
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[18:35:03] <skunkworks> awallin: did you have the castings done?
[18:35:10] <skunkworks> *make the paterns
[18:35:50] <skunkworks> awallin: like the hmc - looks like it is a similar size to ours.
[18:35:51] <awallin> just found that link on the net, seems to be from a city around 1000km north from me
[18:36:03] <skunkworks> oh
[18:36:08] <skullworks> There was a Mori Seiki MV Jr. on ebay for $4000 with a working Fanuc 10M in OK.
[18:36:20] <awallin> nice videos too
[18:36:35] <awallin> 12m/min is a bit overkill on a minimill, maybe...
[18:36:48] <skullworks> Nice - but it won't fit through my 7ft high door.
[18:37:28] <skunkworks> wow - http://mikaj.pic.fi/kuvat/NC/trochoidal_motions_F10000.mp4
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[18:38:33] <skunkworks> or http://mikaj.pic.fi/kuvat/NC/24102010001.mp4
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[18:49:24] <Farthen> you can't have a 3d view when using touchy, can you?
[18:50:38] <micges> no on emc 2.4.x
[18:50:48] <micges> on new emc 2.5.x you can
[18:52:26] <Farthen> ah, cool
[18:52:41] <micges> I mean on new version that will be in 4 months
[18:52:54] <Farthen> sure, i understood what you mean
[18:53:02] <micges> cool
[18:53:23] <Farthen> so in 2.5 the 3d view is integrated in touchy or how does this work?
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[18:55:55] <micges> in 2.5 you have library of widgets that you can embedded on various gui's
[18:55:55] <micges> psha and mhaberler are guys you need to ask about specifics
[18:55:55] <skunkworks> Farthen: http://imagebin.org/131328
[18:56:05] <Farthen> wonderful ;)
[18:57:42] <bdale> skunkworks: are you samco?
[18:57:51] <psha> Farthen: you may add your panels to touchy
[18:58:17] <psha> and you may use 3d view in panels
[18:58:45] <Farthen> yeah, i like these flexible things. now i only need to buy a touchscreen xD
[19:01:27] <skunkworks> bdale: yes
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[19:01:58] <bdale> skunkworks: oh, cool. you'd probably recognize the pwm amps I'm using with my pluto, then... ;-)
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[19:04:21] <skunkworks> bdale: really? cool - how do they work?
[19:05:11] <bdale> skunkworks: so far, great. I built up 5 boards, have four mounted in my box and one to play with on the bench. one of the 4 in the box has a problem I haven't diagnosed, it was fine on the bench but isn't working in the box, so I'm temporarily using the A axis amp to drive the X axis servo which works fine.
[19:06:29] <bdale> this is an Industrial Hobbies mill I bought just after the Spadas took over with a CNC conversion kit of that era I'm finally getting around to putting together. decided I'd be happier with real closed loop servo control so haven't touched the Gecko modules that were part of the conversion kit
[19:06:35] <skunkworks> any pictures?
[19:06:46] <bdale> I've taken lots, haven't made time to put them online yet though
[19:07:37] <skunkworks> bdale: what version? does it have the flip/flop blanking circuit?
[19:09:02] <bdale> I used the most recent artwork you posted a link to on cnczone .. I'd played with one of your earlier board revs but was kind of pleased to have not built a bunch up then
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[19:10:19] <skunkworks> heh - good. I have only made the prototype version (which seemed to be working great) - we ended up finding some amc 40 amp 400v drives for our conversion.
[19:11:00] <bdale> it was hugely tempting to tweak a bunch of things and do my own board design, and I may do that eventually, but I finally decided just building up some boards using your existing design would get the mill online faster. been trying to stay 100% open source / open hardware on this build, it's really pretty funny that the one thing I bought with a preprogrammed microcontroller on it is now the thing that's keeping me from bringing the machine fully online. /o\
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[19:13:45] <skunkworks> heh - very neat. love to see some pictures when you get a chance
[19:14:05] <bdale> skunkworks: I'm only running about 65-80V at a few amps per axis, so in some ways these boards are overkill, but they were easy to build and test and as I say they're working fine. thanks muchly for kicking off that whole thread over on cnczone, learned a lot reading it.
[19:17:25] <Bridgeport2> hello all still trying to get the live cd iso disk to work on my gateway laptop continued from yesterday. I have down loaded twice today once to my windows xp comp and burned a new disk and once to my gateway with 10.04 loaded from the disk from yesterday . in both cases today when i put either disk in burned today and start on the cd then open emc2 sim axis or tkemc i get an error msg and...
[19:17:27] <Bridgeport2> ...the software wont start. I have not been able to md5sum on either disk dont know how/cant get to work .any help would be most appreciated
[19:17:51] <skunkworks> That is great - I had a lot of help here from an expert on high voltage/ power systems ( jmkasunich )
[19:18:32] <bdale> right .. I'm personally deeply experienced designing and building digital and RF stuff, but this is my first time playing with high voltage and power in this context, too
[19:18:32] <psha> Bridgeport2: live cd loads, you get desktop with icons but emc is not working?
[19:18:52] <Bridgeport2> that is corect
[19:18:57] <bdale> what's the error?
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[19:19:31] <psha> reboot, try to start latency test and upload 'dmesg' to pastebin
[19:20:37] <psha> ae! 2.6.37 uploaded to experimental
[19:21:25] <Bridgeport2> latency works fine and looks ok glxgears runs fine and i will pastebin shortly
[19:22:37] <skullworks> Bdal - another IH owner... Just a manual unit with X power feed and the DRO package.
[19:22:59] <bdale> skullworks: good to know
[19:23:38] <skunkworks> bdale: do you have a name on cnczone?
[19:23:53] <skunkworks> bdale: did you end up using the same igbt's?
[19:23:57] <skullworks> I'm going to swapping out the OEM spindle motor for a nice new Baldor 3600rpm 2hp unit.
[19:25:16] <skunkworks> I never had one of those igbt's go bad yet when I was testing/
[19:25:29] <Bridgeport2> http://pastebin.ca/2039726
[19:26:37] <psha> hm, do you want to run RTAI on notebook?
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[19:28:51] <psha> what are your latency results?
[19:28:52] <Bridgeport2> what i need is for the laptop to be used to create ,edit and test run programs for my bridgeport II mill running emc2 2.4.6
[19:29:07] <psha> try to install emc2-sim instead
[19:30:06] <Bridgeport2> servo max jitter 5276 and base thread max jitter 8977
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[19:31:11] <psha> good enought for laptop )
[19:31:14] <Bridgeport2> i started emc2 from the drop down menu and ran sim axis
[19:31:22] <psha> netherless for testing emc2-sim is enought
[19:32:00] <psha> emc2-sim is non-realtime version of emc2 - wokring in userspace for testing/development
[19:33:09] <Bridgeport2> what do I try next
[19:33:59] <psha> edit /etc/apt/sources.list, replace emc2.4 with emc2.4-sim in deb http://www.linuxcnc.org.... line
[19:34:06] <psha> then apt-get update; apt-get install emc2-sim
[19:34:23] <skunkworks> I thought the 'waiting for s.axes' was because of the MNL line in the ini file
[19:34:49] <Bridgeport2> the computor is a gateway amd turion 64 x2 with like 3 or 4 gig of ram
[19:37:36] <Bridgeport2> psha I understand the basics of what you just asked me to do but am novice and need to have you walk me through this in plain english
[19:37:45] <skunkworks> the NML=emc.nml line - but I thought those where all removed.
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[19:38:09] <skunkworks> Bridgeport2: how is it going otherwise? keeping kim out of trouble?
[19:38:17] <psha> Bridgeport2: you are using configs/sim/axis.ini?
[19:39:01] <psha> Bridgeport2: trying to explain... you have to replace emc2 package with emc2-sim one
[19:39:18] <psha> emc2-sim is available from another repository then emc2 (rtai)
[19:39:26] <Bridgeport2> why wont the sim options on live cd work they have alwaways worked for me before
[19:39:30] <psha> you have to adjust pointer to that repo manualy
[19:39:43] <psha> on same laptop?
[19:39:56] <Bridgeport2> Kim k in back in Nabraska
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[19:41:18] <Bridgeport2> yes configs/sim/ axis.ini
[19:42:19] <Bridgeport2> ok what do I do first
[19:42:24] <psha> so you have two options - dig in emc rtai until it start working on your laptop or use emc2-sim :)
[19:42:31] <psha> run 'synaptics'
[19:42:44] <psha> it's GUI for package managment
[19:43:00] <psha> i don't know is it capable of editing sources.list or not
[19:43:53] <Bridgeport2> ok it is up
[19:43:53] <psha> or if you are fine with editing configs by hand - open /etc/sources.list with some editor (gksu gedit /etc/sources.list) and fix www.linuxcnc.org/lucid line there
[19:45:23] <psha> menu
[19:45:39] <psha> settings - repositories
[19:46:04] <Bridgeport2> ok
[19:46:36] <psha> find linuxcnc line
[19:46:48] <Bridgeport2> found it
[19:47:11] <Bridgeport2> under other software
[19:47:26] <psha> yes
[19:47:29] <psha> edit it
[19:47:51] <psha> what do you have in 'components'?
[19:50:39] <Bridgeport2> http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2 lucid base emc2.4 is now to read http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2 lucid base emc2-sim one is that correct?
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[19:51:23] <Bridgeport2> I dont know what components are
[19:52:23] <psha> emc2.4-sim
[19:52:23] <Bridgeport2> ok found it when i edited it
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[19:53:06] <psha> 'component' is a kind of 'package groups' living in same repository
[19:53:26] <Bridgeport2> it is reloading now
[19:54:57] <Bridgeport2> how do i test it or run it
[19:55:34] <psha> you have to install 'emc2-sim' package now
[19:55:51] <Bridgeport2> how
[19:56:07] <psha> select emc2-sim package in synaptic and install it
[19:56:13] <psha> it will remove 'emc2' package
[19:57:45] <Bridgeport2> emc2it is working on it
[19:57:59] <psha> ?
[20:00:41] <Bridgeport2> the simulator is now working thank you thank you thank you thank you!
[20:01:55] <Bridgeport2> I did not know there was a sim version out there i have always used the live cd and tested thing with its sim option
[20:01:58] <psha> heh, after reboot you'll loose it )
[20:02:30] <Bridgeport2> I will loose what?
[20:02:34] <psha> emc2-sim )
[20:02:45] <psha> it's livecd - it's always in same state after reboot
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[20:03:53] <Bridgeport2> got it thanks
[20:04:18] <psha> consider installing ubuntu 10.04 (stock, non rtai) and addint linuxcnc.org emc2.4-sim repository to it
[20:04:53] <Bridgeport2> skunkworks hows the KT I would like to see it some time
[20:05:05] <psha> you may use usb stick (i think 4gb is enougth) if there is no spare partition on HD
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[20:11:19] <skunkworks> Bridgeport2: good - have the spindle encoder mounted - need to make some videos of it tapping a 1 inch hole :)
[20:12:13] <Bridgeport2> none of this wimpy 10-32 stuff huh!
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[20:12:47] <skunkworks> heh
[20:13:06] <cradek> I tap more 4-40 with my 5hp machine than any other thread (by far)
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[20:14:33] <Bridgeport2> I need to get going on BP # 2 and it will have taping on it
[20:15:14] <JT-Shop> Weeee! the inside of my VMC looks like a winter wonderland all covered in white delrin
[20:16:09] <skunkworks> neat - I think I will have to do a video of a whole program with tool change doing a 4-40 and a 1" - drilling and such with tool changes.
[20:16:25] <Bridgeport2> just finnished up 4 parts of cast nylon 4 hours run time each ran great bu i was getting tired
[20:16:35] <cradek> 4 hours!
[20:16:53] <cradek> I have some 90 minuters to run and I think those are long
[20:17:01] <Bridgeport2> yes lots of carving
[20:17:15] <cradek> 90 minutes with the spindle cranked up all the way -- I wear earplugs for those
[20:17:28] <skunkworks> Bridgeport2: is this still the pico board with the original steppers?
[20:17:46] <skunkworks> cradek: pcb?
[20:17:47] <Bridgeport2> yes
[20:17:58] <cradek> Bridgeport2: is the next one going to be servo?
[20:18:00] <skunkworks> Bridgeport2: how has that been working?
[20:18:01] <cradek> skunkworks: yes
[20:19:05] <Bridgeport2> un decided yet have hardware for both would like servos on both machines but $
[20:20:11] <skunkworks> I think this is my favorite video.. http://www.youtube.com/user/samcoinc?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/7/KplU8hkI0AQ
[20:20:25] <bdale> skunkworks: I mostly lurk on cnczone, but I'm 'bdale' there as well
[20:20:31] <skunkworks> for some reason I play it over and over..
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[20:20:58] <skunkworks> bdale: did you end up using the same igbt's?
[20:21:12] <bdale> I think so, I'd have to check
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[20:22:26] <skunkworks> neat (I had started with mosfets but after some schooling from jmkasunich - I found out the 44a rating was not anywere near a continous rating.) I was lucky to get 10a
[20:23:23] <bdale> right, I bought some mosfets that were similar but different from the ones you were using early on that I played with a bit, but I think when I made up the set of boards I'm actually running that I stayed pretty close to your parts selections
[20:26:34] <skunkworks> bdale: how did you make the circuit boards? mill, etch, job out ,.,.?
[20:27:14] <skunkworks> I milled mine and just soldered both sides of the boards. (kind of a pain but it worked well)
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[20:27:54] <bdale> skunkworks: I use barebonespcb.com for stuff like this .. I run a fair number of boards through AC .. and as I mentioned in passing I'm sitting here looking at a huge box of new boards from their assembly side for one of the products I sell on the side
[20:28:16] <skunkworks> oh - neat.
[20:28:25] <bdale> stuck on a work teleconf for a while, so won't be able to touch them until tonith
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[20:51:37] <lilalinux> Is emc able to cut a pocket itself, or do I have to create my own o- routine?
[20:52:42] <andypugh> You need your own O-routine
[20:53:30] <lilalinux> ok
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[21:04:30] <skunkworks> bdale: just glad you didn't find any obvious flaws in the circuit ;)
[21:06:01] <bdale> skunkworks: so am I. ;-)
[21:07:19] <bdale> I've never run 4000 series cmos at 12V before, and I'm surprised how warm some of the parts get .. I've done 10V systems for spacecraft before, so I wasn't scared off by it, but since most of my work is at 3.3V and lower these days, the whole process has been "interesting"
[21:08:29] <bootnecklad> > spacecraft
[21:08:35] <bootnecklad> bdale tell me more if you dont mind
[21:08:55] <bdale> amsat.org
[21:09:14] <bdale> I worked on the AO-16 family, and was a significant contributor to AO-40
[21:10:11] <bdale> boards of mine are scheduled to fly on two upcoming AMSAT satellites under construction in Germany, and I've agreed to do the main processor board for a future AMSAT-NA cubesat project
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[21:13:09] <bdale> as a good friend once said, I "retreat to the machine shop to relax" ... ;-)
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[21:20:48] <skunkworks> btw dad scored a 100a 250v amc drive. It will probably run the spindle for the lathe
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[22:11:19] <andypugh> I am messing about with ways to run a Fanuc Red Cap with an 8i20 (or, in fact, just about any drive you can imagine)
[22:11:50] <andypugh> Made slightly less easy by the fact I have only ever seen the motors as pictures on eBay.
[22:12:22] <skunkworks> I don't have any - but it would be cool to have that as an option!
[22:13:55] <Connor> I'm looking for a cost effective dial indicator or Tram for my CNC. This is for a Router that only has 1/8 and 1/4 collets...
[22:14:09] <Connor> any one have any good suggestions ?
[22:14:53] <andypugh> For what purpose?
[22:15:23] <Connor> make sure my router is parallel to the deck
[22:15:45] <andypugh> I think that a bit of bent 1/4" bar would be good start.
[22:16:11] <Connor> umm. okay.. explain ?
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[22:17:03] <andypugh> It doesn't have to be very stiff, so just bend a bit of rod, hold one end in the collet and mount the DTI on the horizontal remainder of the bar.
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[22:17:35] <andypugh> You are square when you read the same number in 4 places at 90 degrees
[22:17:59] <Connor> Oh.. Well yea.. I know that.. I'm just asking for a good Dial Indicator.. I see them from $15.00 on up...
[22:18:47] <andypugh> Actually, for a router you could just use the bar, lower it until it just touches a bit of paper in 4 positions.
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[22:19:06] <andypugh> I would go for the cheapest, you will cry less when you rout it by accident.
[22:19:21] <Connor> I've tried using my digital caliper..
[22:19:47] <andypugh> They aren't ideal for gaps. I keep looking for some sort of device for touch-off use.
[22:21:02] <andypugh> $15 sounds high :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/Dial-indicator-/190485245925
[22:21:27] <DaViruz> wow
[22:21:43] <DaViruz> i should get a bunch of those, i'm sure i'll find uses at that price
[22:22:04] <Connor> It's used. and only has one. :)
[22:22:15] <Connor> and, I don't bid anymore..I just do buy it now.
[22:22:37] <Connor> I've been driving myself mad trying to get this thing dialed in.
[22:22:39] <DaViruz> oops
[22:22:46] <DaViruz> maybe i should read more carfully next time
[22:23:10] <Connor> I need to level the router.. and then make sure that the X axis is parallel too..
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[22:23:37] <andypugh> I don't mind bidding on things with 2h to go, like that.
[22:23:48] <DaViruz> made in japan huh
[22:23:51] <DaViruz> fr $5
[22:24:06] <DaViruz> i might just get it anyway in that case
[22:24:45] <andypugh> I am waiting for my German friend to bring me my latest eBay buy: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160521918964
[22:24:54] <DaViruz> but why have the otherwise reasonable japanese put a imperial scale on the damned thing :(
[22:25:50] <andypugh> Because DTIs have to be in thou or they are baffling.
[22:26:22] <andypugh> I have no idea what "decently true" is in metric :-)
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[22:27:29] <JT-Shop> andypugh: cool you finally got one
[22:27:50] <DaViruz> i want a nice boring head :/
[22:28:22] <andypugh> Yeah. And I was awake till 5am because I thought of a really neat way to motorise it, and was wondering how best ti use the idea to make myself rich.
[22:28:39] <DaViruz> telling me would be a good start
[22:28:55] <DaViruz> :)
[22:29:04] <andypugh> I daren't tell anyone, public domain and all that :-)
[22:29:34] <andypugh> I think it is the best idea I have ever had.
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[22:29:41] <DaViruz> i think using the spindle as the motor is the way to go
[22:29:53] <DaViruz> and use something to brake some part of it to apply motion
[22:30:36] <psha> i've good idea to go and sleep!
[22:31:12] <psha> i have not yet descided if i have to gather fees for that idea or not...
[22:31:13] <DaViruz> i should do that too, i was up at 5 this morning and intend to do the same tomorrow :/
[22:32:35] <psha> bb all
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