#emc | Logs for 2010-12-08

[00:04:12] <Jymmm> HAL now Brown Cow!
[00:09:24] <tom3p> SWPadnos, the panel is loaded and Machne | Show Hal Configuration shows all the pins and signals i made ( dunno how to run halcmd show pin when the terminal is already running emc2 )
[00:12:36] <tom3p> the greyed widgets and the pin list http://imagebin.org/126787
[00:19:20] <TekniQue> 23:31:49 < skunkworks> or the direction pin didn't take.
[00:19:46] <TekniQue> well the software said it was moving down on the Z axis
[00:20:18] <TekniQue> I can't rule out home switch issues
[00:24:26] <tom3p> maybe the hal labels' text turns into '0' becuase they have a property of %0.2f :)
[00:25:26] <tom3p> but i dont see enable pins in the xml file, maybe in emc's inspector...
[00:28:27] <Valen> anybody seen danimal latley?
[00:29:18] <archivist> !seen danimal
[00:29:18] <the_wench> Never heard of the entity danimal you ask for
[00:29:33] <archivist> real spelling?
[00:30:29] <Valen> yeah
[00:30:36] <Valen> well i think so
[00:30:52] <Valen> was making push bike bits on a bridgeport
[00:31:04] <Valen> gears and such like to sell on ebay
[00:31:13] <Valen> was thinking of moving from steppers to servos
[00:31:15] <tom3p> join #cam, dab is often there
[00:31:18] <tom3p> dan
[00:32:56] <tom3p> does gladevcp have some functions that need to connect to a thread?
[00:37:26] <tom3p> no, i found one sample cfg that is not greyed out, but its not embeded, its a separate window, code shows nothing special, no enable pins anyway
[00:37:56] <TeslaTony> Is emc2 capable of controlling the spindle speed on a MaxNC 10?
[00:38:36] <Valen> EMC2 is, the question is if that machine is up to the awesomeness of EMC2
[00:41:12] <TeslaTony> Point. It has a manual speed control dial on the side of the controller box, which is kinda making me think that the control is strictly manual, but I am new to this
[00:42:59] <tom3p> yes its capable, but you need a speed sensor ( need feedback , could be a low rez encoder or.... ) your system right now may blindly adjust speed
[00:43:15] <tom3p> we dont know your hardware
[00:43:29] <tom3p> we/I
[00:44:19] <tom3p> woohoo, i got an embeded panel with a button and led working, now for all the other grey stuff labeled '0'
[00:45:59] <TeslaTony> Blind speed adjustment might not be bad, just as long as it can spin up and down in a mostly consistent manner
[00:48:34] <mhaberler> sorry for tuning in late - working on hal widget docs
[00:48:35] <mhaberler> for HAL Table children to be active its pin must be set to 1 'from outside' (EMC , or looped back through a halcmd file)
[00:49:31] <mhaberler> same for HAL Hbox
[00:49:32] <mhaberler> if you want an 'always active' container take the gtk table/boxes
[00:52:39] <tom3p> i just saw that the HAL Table has its own pin, will try that thanks
[00:56:02] <tom3p> yep in the .hal file setp hewey-ui.hal_table1 1 made them all light up thanks
[01:22:55] <elmo40> anyone using Mocca?
[01:23:23] <tom3p> stuck gladevcp hscales ( sliders ) can be fixed by giving them a non-zero value....
[01:23:24] <tom3p> if mypanel.hslider1 has value 0, you cant move it. its frozen, if its designed with value 1.0, it can be moved
[01:23:39] <tom3p> elmo40, i've run it and it looks good
[01:25:10] <elmo40> is it in the emc repo?
[01:27:10] <tom3p> dunno, but its here http://code.google.com/p/moccagui/wiki/Installation_ENGLISH
[01:27:49] <tom3p> its ubuntu version sensitive so pick the right one or build your own
[01:40:25] <tom3p> re stuck hscales, leaving it default to the glade designer's 0 means frozen forever, but init'ing it to 0.01 frees it up
[01:43:09] <tom3p> its nice to have embedded and free panels, hmm transparency so DRO is always present but sorta see thru. we got alpha channel?
[01:46:50] <tom3p> yes it has transparency attributes
[02:57:15] <atmega> anyone know what a maxnc10 is worth?
[03:38:16] <cradek> atmega: aluminum is about $1/lb
[03:38:53] <cradek> atmega: (max 10 is a basic stepper machine - a little more stout than a sherline)
[03:43:16] <atmega> smaller than an X2?
[03:43:30] <cradek> not sure - check the travels
[03:43:48] <cradek> I think X2 is cast iron - max is anodized aluminum
[03:44:04] <atmega> on this size, does it matter?
[03:44:22] <Valen> if its getting shipped around, you can put alot more Al in than iron ;->
[03:45:15] <cradek> people cut metal on the X2 - depends what you want to do with it I'm sure
[03:46:04] <atmega> my only real plans are brass & delrin
[03:46:06] <cradek> maxnc machines called '10' could come with different step motor sizes and wildly different drives - ask questions if any of that is important to you
[03:46:19] <atmega> it's on ebay
[03:57:17] <cradek> seems like small machines sell for a surprising amount
[03:57:39] <cradek> doubt there's any one answer to what it's worth (except after the auction ends :-)
[03:57:53] <atmega> yeah... I feel the need for a new toy
[03:58:13] <cradek> url?
[03:58:25] <atmega> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120657191256
[03:58:44] <atmega> but I have limited space, so I'd prefer it to be useful
[03:59:12] <cradek> I think that is an early 10-2 model
[03:59:20] <cradek> it has the optional larger steppers
[03:59:37] <cradek> has the original terrible awful spindle motor
[04:00:03] <cradek> the original stepper drive box - wave drive - you can run it with emc but it's very very weak
[04:00:17] <cradek> table top has been surfaced - it should be anodized
[04:00:56] <cradek> X leadscrew is disconnected from the motor for some reason
[04:01:02] <cradek> Y leadscrew is missing?
[04:01:05] <atmega> the youtube videos of sherlines look ok for being tiny
[04:01:16] <cradek> yeah they're decent
[04:01:26] <cradek> tiny Y travel is a pain on their mill
[04:01:45] <atmega> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSA89ubsaZk
[04:01:49] <cradek> maxnc has over 4" so you can do 4x6 circuit boards - that's important for me
[04:02:09] <atmega> that also looks pretty impressive for $1k-ish to start with
[04:02:58] <cradek> sure is bigger
[04:03:15] <cradek> are they R8?
[04:03:21] <atmega> yeah
[04:03:39] <cradek> maxnc is its own taper - their collets are not really very good
[04:04:18] <cradek> 1/4" is the biggest one iirc
[04:05:20] <cradek> heh, includes laptop computer with windows 95
[04:05:41] <cradek> you realize the maxnc doesn't work at all right? I mean in the fine print it says that
[04:05:47] <atmega> yeh
[04:05:53] <cradek> it makes noise - but doesn't move where you say to
[04:06:09] <atmega> yeah, making things work is also fun
[04:06:21] <cradek> comes with spare parts - someone tried to fix it by blindly buying things
[04:06:57] <cradek> their driver box is crap - you'd want to replace it with chopper drives of some kind - even xylotex would be much better.
[04:07:31] <atmega> I have tb5650 board somewhere
[04:08:06] <cradek> the driver box is L/R drive - parport to nand gates to transistors that run too hot, current limiting with big resistors that run too hot - they have a fan bolted to them
[04:08:18] <cradek> it's like fisher price 'my first stepper motor drive'
[04:08:27] <atmega> heh, so does it have anything going for it?
[04:08:47] <cradek> mine's very accurate after I replaced the screws and nuts with antibacklash
[04:08:52] <cradek> it makes perfect circuit boards
[04:09:11] <cradek> just warning you that it's a project machine :-)
[04:09:18] <atmega> yeah, that's what it says.
[04:09:25] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[04:09:28] <cradek> I cut these on mine
[04:10:47] <cradek> the current configuration of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF7C8d4d0nc
[04:10:58] <cradek> it's not much of a maxnc anymore
[04:11:12] <atmega> same screws?
[04:11:18] <atmega> and still some blue
[04:11:24] <cradek> no, replaced with 1/4-16 acme
[04:12:02] <cradek> yes - everything original is blue - everything bare aluminum is homemade
[04:12:27] <atmega> the tilting head is cool, did you make that?
[04:12:31] <cradek> yes
[04:13:08] <atmega> do you use something to generate the code for 5 axis or do it by hand?
[04:13:18] <cradek> that was handwritten
[04:13:20] <Valen> thats pretty nice cradek
[04:13:23] <Valen> whats the spindle?
[04:13:27] <cradek> I don't do any real 5 axis work
[04:13:43] <cradek> I was developing AB kinematics for a customer - that's testing/proof of concept
[04:13:53] <Valen> looking at the PCB there
[04:13:59] <cradek> Valen: bought on ebay - the guy (forget his name) doesn't make them anymore
[04:14:10] <atmega> yeah, that stepper board is really nice
[04:14:25] <Valen> much nicer finish than I'm used to seeing on routered boards
[04:14:31] <Valen> what speed and cutter?
[04:14:43] <elmo40> cradek: what was it instead of the 1/4-16 ACME?
[04:14:58] <cradek> Valen: heh, read the words
[04:15:30] <cradek> elmo40: they came with 1/4-20 all-thread and bronze? nuts
[04:16:37] <elmo40> ouch.
[04:17:10] <cradek> elmo40: that's easy to upgrade...
[04:18:09] <cradek> I've gotta run, goodnight
[04:42:07] <elmo40> recommended to use 10.04 instead of 8.04 ?
[04:42:22] <elmo40> core2duo computer.
[04:42:29] <elmo40> stepper motors.
[04:43:03] <alexis_4> does EMC2 has drift capablity?
[04:43:13] <Valen> drift?
[04:43:20] <alexis_4> LAF is short for look-ahead feed. It is an algorithm that tries to reach the maximum possible speed. This is done bij Looking to the future of the path that is to be executed. The algortihm will try to accelerate through, even over small pieces of lines (G1) generated by (3D) CAM software. If a curve is comming up, LAF will decellerate just in time, so that the MAX acceleration of the machine is
[04:43:20] <alexis_4> not violated.
[04:43:20] <alexis_4> Thanks to the LAF, especially with the CAM G-Code the machine will reach a speed, close to the given FEED value.
[04:43:20] <alexis_4> Experience shows, that with LAF, it is possible, that the machining time is reduced by half compared to conventional CNC controls without LAF.
[04:43:20] <alexis_4> The minimum angle LAF in the setup of the software is a further optimization to get higher speeds.
[04:43:21] <alexis_4> It is the angle that line piecesare allowed to make without ramping down, lines with an angle lower than this value are considered straight. The value of the LAF minimum angle is dependent of the machine and G-code program..
[04:43:21] <alexis_4> A value of 3 degrees is usually OK for most machines. I recommend not to go above the value of 6 degrees, because then relatively high acceleration peeks may occur. Check bij homing a second time whether steploss occurs, if so, lower the LAF min. angle value.
[04:43:44] <alexis_4> ...
[04:44:08] <Valen> EMC does have an option to treat a bunch of G1's as a curve
[04:44:23] <alexis_4> how?
[04:44:25] <roh> isnt that what every proper nc controll tool does?
[04:44:37] <roh> i mean.. what would we need kinematics for elsewise?
[04:45:04] <Valen> in theory I believe its sposed to do what its told
[04:45:37] <alexis_4> does it mean emc2 have it ?
[04:45:58] <Valen> i beleieve it does
[04:46:32] <Valen> i forget the specific details
[04:46:44] <roh> Valen please read http://linuxcnc.org/content/view/11/10/lang,en/
[04:46:49] <roh> EMC provides:
[04:46:54] <roh> ...
[04:46:55] <roh> a realtime motion planning system with look-ahead
[04:47:07] <alexis_4> it say like race car vs corner
[04:47:14] <alexis_4> read
[04:47:16] <alexis_4> road
[04:47:27] <Valen> look ahead doesn't imply it does all the things alexis_4 was asking
[04:48:15] <Valen> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64:
[04:49:16] <roh> Valen ;) G61 and G64 was what i wanted to suggest just seconds ago :)
[04:50:12] <alexis_4> ...execuse me:
[04:50:17] <alexis_4> Look Ahead feed
[04:50:18] <alexis_4> To explain this, I will compare a running CNC machine with driving a race car.
[04:50:18] <alexis_4> The road maximum velocity signs have to be obeyed and you have to drive your car exactly over the
[04:50:18] <alexis_4> white line in the middle of the road. You will try to reach the maximum allowed velocity where
[04:50:18] <alexis_4> possible. When you see a curve coming up ahead, you will brake so that you will not drift off the road.
[04:50:18] <alexis_4> You will try to look ahead as far as you can see and you take care that you can stop in time if the road
[04:50:18] <alexis_4> suddenly stops.
[04:50:19] <alexis_4> When you would maintain your speed in sharp curves, you will drift off the road resulting possibly into
[04:50:19] <alexis_4> a car accident. When the road has many short curves, then you will not be able to reach the desired
[04:50:20] <alexis_4> speed. The more PS you have in the car, the higher speed you will reach because you can accelerate
[04:50:20] <alexis_4> faster.
[04:50:21] <alexis_4> I think this is a good comparison with a CNC machine, the same issues apply. A machine cannot
[04:50:21] <alexis_4> suddenly change velocity, to reach a velocity the motors must accelerate first for a certain time to
[04:50:22] <alexis_4> reach the velocity.
[04:50:34] <alexis_4> ...
[04:50:44] <Valen> alexis_4: read the link i posted
[04:51:15] <roh> alexis_4 thats still what every proper gcode parser/path planner needs to do.
[04:51:38] <roh> if it doesnt its low-end crap and can be implemented in a stupid 8bit cpu from 30 years ago
[04:52:09] <alexis_4> oh
[04:52:54] <alexis_4> :) so EMC2 have i already..... :) :)
[04:53:02] <alexis_4> it
[04:53:28] <roh> i am not 100% sure, but i cannot see how it could work without and why we would need to configure maximum accelerations and such elsewise
[04:56:49] <alexis_4> well its basicly turn 90'degree sharp corner into un-sharp angle
[04:57:19] <elmo40> on a side question... why is there an 'emc2.4-sim 64-bit' but no 'emc2.4 64-bit' in here? http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/lucid/
[05:03:09] <elmo40> is a 10.04 64-bit version being worked on? I know there is one for 8.04 but the 64-bit Ubuntu won't boot, only the 9.10 and up will boot on my machine.
[05:03:28] <elmo40> so, kinda 'stuck' with 10.04 (not like it is a bad thing ;)
[05:04:05] <elmo40> just wondering if there is a 64-bit rtai kernel someone is working on. If not I will install the 32-bit.
[05:04:29] <roh> use 32bit. doesnt matter anyhow
[05:04:29] <Valen> do 32bit
[05:04:47] <roh> its not that it would bring any bargain
[05:05:00] <elmo40> I see.
[05:05:06] <Valen> EMC isnt going to use 4Gb of ram unless you are being paid enough to get RTAI patched for 64 bit ;->
[05:05:46] <elmo40> someone already made a 64-bit RTAI kernel for Hardy.
[05:06:05] <elmo40> just wondering if one for Lucid was in the works.
[05:08:53] <alexis_4> if it 64bit,would it be more speed? with 64bit proccessor
[05:09:00] <Valen> not really
[05:09:29] <alexis_4> so 32bit it is.
[05:14:33] <alexis_4> allright who is this? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/cncworkshopemc.jpg
[05:14:38] <alexis_4> :)
[05:23:20] <alexis_4> Nice Looking Guys
[05:23:45] <alexis_4> brb.
[06:03:15] <oem> oem is now known as UncleG
[06:06:18] <UncleG> B60 Index Werke screw machine on EMC2; http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=327745&id=508489044&l=c3e80f47d9
[07:13:46] <UncleG> Anyone out there run screw machines?
[07:14:06] <toastydeath> never had the chance
[07:14:54] <toastydeath> is there a general question about them or are you actually looking to tool up a job on one
[07:14:56] <UncleG> What machines do you have?
[07:15:02] <UncleG> no question
[07:15:14] <UncleG> just wondering who else kicked it in my neck of the woods
[07:15:26] <toastydeath> i don't have any machines of my own, I was a machinist for a bit.
[07:15:57] <UncleG> Luckily, you can build whatever you want from spare parts these days =D
[07:16:07] <UncleG> be a machinist from your garage
[07:17:49] <toastydeath> haha i guess, i'm something of a machine snob
[08:31:45] <alexis_4> Hi guys
[08:38:56] <UncleG> Hi alexis_4
[08:39:02] <UncleG> How are you?
[08:42:14] <alexis_4> just fine thank you
[08:42:16] <alexis_4> :)
[08:43:28] <alexis_4> btw. *.cc on EMC2_sourcecode is for GCC compiler right?
[08:43:30] <UncleG> WOrking on any projects?
[08:43:41] <UncleG> sure? :P haha no idea
[08:43:43] <alexis_4> sure...
[08:43:47] <alex_joni> alexis_4: g++
[08:44:18] <alexis_4> so interp_convert.cc is g++ ?
[08:44:36] <alex_joni> yes, it's C++
[08:44:47] <alex_joni> even if it's written more like C
[08:46:10] <alexis_4> is it diffeent GCC,G++,C++?
[08:47:08] <alexis_4> so interp_convert.cc is more like C++ for sure?
[08:48:03] <alexis_4> <alex_joni>---> yes, it's C++
[08:49:04] <alexis_4> cos i confuse on it's variables
[08:53:21] <alexis_4> and how it's connected with Python
[08:53:40] <psha> via emc/hal python modules
[08:56:58] <alexis_4> i see...
[09:49:44] <alexis_4> thanks
[09:50:39] <alexis_4> :)
[10:40:15] <moldovean> moldovean is now known as qq-
[12:19:13] <jthornton> 24 hours on the D510MO latency test and max jitter is 9650
[13:13:52] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[13:50:08] <Duckie> hi, i have install correct the toolracked patch. But i can not start the new emc2.4.6 with simulator (show the 3D visual of the x, y, z)
[13:55:01] <Duckie> how can start this program?
[13:57:22] <SWPadnos> can you put any error messages you get on http://pastebin.ca
[14:00:28] <Duckie> http://pastebin.com/AmugcK3X
[14:06:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I don't recall exactly what the fix is for that
[14:07:17] <SWPadnos> you may have to increase the size of an NML buffer (not sure which one), and/or increase the hard memlock size
[14:12:08] <cradek> seventh google hit for that error message is our documentation
[14:12:30] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
[14:17:21] <Duckie> what must i change? doesn't understand what to do
[14:18:00] <cradek> read the first sentence of answer 1.1 and do what it says
[14:19:01] <SWPadnos> oh hey, there's the third (and correct) option :)
[14:19:22] <cradek> *cough cough*
[14:19:35] <SWPadnos> I knew I had seen it before :)
[14:27:25] <Duckie> where must i deleted this "remove the inifile line NML_FILE = emc.nml." on what file?
[14:28:02] <SWPadnos> "remove the inifile line NML_FILE = emc.nml"
[14:28:30] <SWPadnos> "remove the INIFILE line NML_FILE = emc.nml"
[14:30:38] <atmega> do people use thrust bearings at the ends of drive screws?
[14:31:00] <cradek> how big a machine?
[14:31:15] <atmega> hypothetical... 24" travel?
[14:31:24] <atmega> 1hp spindle?
[14:31:30] <cradek> yes definitely
[14:31:42] <SWPadnos> usually dual angular contact bearings at the motor end, and a single bearing at the other end (so it can float a little with thermal expansion)
[14:32:05] <SWPadnos> usually = on the Bridgeports I've seen, anyway
[14:32:23] <atmega> so all the force is only at the driven end?
[14:32:29] <cradek> 24" travel with 1hp is a lot like a bridgeport
[14:32:52] <SWPadnos> the driven end is held tightly in the axial direction, so the motor bearings don't take that load
[14:33:06] <cradek> screws change length a surprising amount
[14:33:17] <SWPadnos> yeah, it is surprising
[14:33:22] <atmega> does the other end not being restrained axially affect backlash?
[14:33:30] <SWPadnos> even with the metals being fairly similar (cast iron vs. steel)
[14:33:36] <SWPadnos> not on a ballscrew
[14:33:45] <SWPadnos> but it does affect linear scale somw
[14:33:47] <SWPadnos> some
[14:34:21] <atmega> I think I'm going to give up on looking for a used X3 and get one of these: http://grizzly.com/products/G0704
[14:34:29] <SWPadnos> on a BP, I think thermal expansion is 6PPM/C for the steel and 12 for the iron (or the other way around)
[14:35:42] <Duckie> aaaaah, that file. THANKS
[14:35:47] <skunkworks> the bearings on the motor end need a way to take slack out - like 2 bearings back to back. (timkin or angular contact.,)
[14:36:14] <skunkworks> wait - are timkin and angular contact the same?
[14:36:27] <SWPadnos> timkin is a brand, they make angular contact bearings
[14:36:33] <SWPadnos> or is it timken?
[14:36:38] <SWPadnos> whatever
[14:36:47] <skunkworks> heh
[14:36:48] <skunkworks> right
[14:36:57] <atmega> you would need one on each side, otherwise it would be unbalanced or something?
[14:37:14] <SWPadnos> angular or thrust?
[14:37:19] <atmega> angular
[14:37:22] <atmega> either though
[14:37:32] <SWPadnos> you use two at the motor end, facing opposite directions
[14:37:59] <atmega> you would use a thrust bearing on either side of a ball/wtf bearing ?
[14:38:12] <SWPadnos> you use one on the other end (though you probably could use two), in a pocket that allows for thermal expansion
[14:38:19] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't
[14:38:42] <SWPadnos> two angular contact bearings give you good radial support, as well as good axial support
[14:39:06] <SWPadnos> thrust bearings don't give good radial support, they're more or less only axial
[14:39:37] <atmega> I added some thrust bearings on my current acme screws, sandwiching the radial bearing
[14:39:37] <SWPadnos> so you could use two thrust bearings plus a radial bearing, or just use two angular contact bearibgs
[14:39:40] <SWPadnos> bearings
[14:39:57] <SWPadnos> sure. it's just thicker and more parts
[14:40:31] <atmega> without the thrust bearings, they were not so smooth, could be binding anywhere in there.
[14:40:51] <atmega> the radial bearings on each end were between acme nuts
[14:41:20] <atmega> I only had enough free ones to do the motor ends
[14:41:40] <SWPadnos> odd
[14:42:44] <SWPadnos> I think my Bridgeport has dual 7204 at the motor end and a single 6204 at the free end
[14:43:39] <atmega> the bearings are captured on both sides?
[14:44:00] <SWPadnos> the one at the free end can float about 1/4 inch
[14:44:15] <SWPadnos> the dual angular are captured on both sides
[14:44:39] <atmega> so all the force in both directions is against the bearing surface?
[14:46:17] <atmega> I'm planning on buying the mill and accumulating ball screw parts as they appear cheaply.
[14:46:38] <SWPadnos> yes. the inner hub in the angular contact bearings has a raised face that butt up against each other
[14:47:04] <SWPadnos> so the hubs touch each other on the inside of the pair, but the races are separated a tad
[14:47:31] <atmega> so, either way would work (thrust-radial-thrust) or paired angular contact
[14:47:38] <atmega> but, the angular would be preferred?
[14:47:39] <SWPadnos> when you compress the outer sides of the races against each other, that puts pressure on the angular bearing surfaces
[14:48:06] <SWPadnos> I don't know that it's preferred, but it should take less space and cost less, and it is fewer parts
[14:49:49] <atmega> do grizzly coupon codes exist? can't find anything useful via google
[15:14:08] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=grizzly%20coupon
[15:15:22] <atmega> I found a 5% after reading lots of unrelated stuff
[15:15:31] <atmega> make is < $1k delivered
[15:16:12] <Jymmm> atmega: do they have a mailing list?
[15:16:25] <Jymmm> Mornin Smokey
[15:16:51] <atmega> I don't see a signup place
[15:17:27] <atmega> anyone have anything bad to say about them before I click pay and potentially piss off my wife?
[15:18:35] <Jymmm> Just use a cc to pay
[15:19:08] <atmega> I was going to use paypal, I have ~500 in paypal credit she doesn't know about :)
[15:19:35] <Jymmm> Well, check their return policy BEFOE buying
[15:19:38] <Jymmm> BEFORE
[15:27:37] <JT-Hardinge> did I miss something?
[15:28:33] <SWPadnos> I'm sure you missed something. The question is whether it was relevant or important to you :)
[15:29:53] <JT-Hardinge> LOL most likely neither one :)
[15:30:23] <atmega> $34 for liftgate service
[15:30:41] <Jymmm> cheap
[15:31:13] <atmega> it put it over $1k though
[15:31:13] <Jymmm> than most
[15:31:29] <Jymmm> got forklift?
[15:31:41] <atmega> oh well... now I just need another $1k or so for screws, motors, etc
[15:31:53] <atmega> nope, I have a $12 harbor freight furniture dolly
[15:33:02] <Jymmm> then get a couple mc lifts too and stack them on top of ech other
[15:33:09] <atmega> mc lift?
[15:33:16] <Jymmm> motorcycle
[15:33:28] <atmega> yeah, that's it!
[15:33:28] <SWPadnos> for lifting people who eat at McDonalds
[15:33:48] <atmega> no clue how I will get it on the stand
[15:33:55] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/1500-lb-capacity-atv-motorcycle-lift-2792.html
[15:34:10] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-motorcycle-lift-91764.html
[15:34:36] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-pallet-jack-36383.html
[15:35:34] <Jymmm> atmega: here ya go http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hydraulic-scissor-table-cart-93116.html
[15:46:43] <atmega> If they won't take it from the liftgate to the garage, I'll just stick it on the dolly and hope
[15:46:56] <JT-Hardinge> atmega: what are you moving?
[15:47:57] <L84Supper> atmega: all I could find was a negative review on a similar Grizzly mill/drill http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G3358-Mill-Drill/dp/B0000DD1NK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_5
[15:48:06] <atmega> a grizzly G0704, it says it is only 300lbs though
[15:49:14] <Jymmm> atmega: Yu dnt have a hand truck?
[15:49:25] <atmega> yeah, I thought it was heavier than that for some reason
[15:49:41] <atmega> I would have skipped the liftgate service and picked it up
[15:49:46] <Jymmm> Approx. shipping weight: 620 lbs.
[15:50:13] <Jymmm> oh nm
[15:50:17] <atmega> weird... that's what I thought itwas, but the page I'm looking at says Approximate shipping weight: 290 lbs.
[15:50:33] <Jymmm> amazon said that
[15:50:55] <L84Supper> they probably left out the weight of the stand
[15:50:58] <JT-Hardinge> that will come in a crate and you can take it apart on the sidewalk and carry the parts in
[15:51:08] <Jymmm> Grizzly G3358 Mill / Drill
[15:51:08] <Jymmm> by Grizzly via amazon
[15:51:20] <JT-Hardinge> I've purchased a few things from them before
[15:51:25] <Jymmm> L84Supper: linked the wrong one
[15:52:23] <L84Supper> I was just linking to a bad review of a similar Grizzly mill
[15:52:47] <Jymmm> L84Supper: 300 lbs difference is NOT a "simular one" =)
[15:52:51] <JT-Hardinge> I unloaded this baby by myself by hand http://www.grizzly.com/products/48-Pan-Box-Brake-12-Ga-/G0542
[15:53:04] <JT-Hardinge> a part at a time came out of my truck
[15:53:27] <L84Supper> heh.... try and find a positive review of any Grizzly mill
[15:54:12] <JT-Hardinge> yea, you gotta understand what your getting from the Griz
[15:54:21] <JT-Hardinge> I live 3hrs away from them
[15:54:23] <atmega> I'm getting a 'cheap
[15:54:30] <atmega> I'm getting a 'cheap' chinese mll
[15:55:17] <Jymmm> Um it comes in two cartons
[15:55:33] <L84Supper> I've found them to be quite inconsistent, one machine will have one set of issues where the next one out of the box will have an entirely different problem
[15:55:58] <atmega> perhaps the factory cycles through different prisons for labor pools
[15:56:38] <Jymmm> Carton #1
[15:56:39] <Jymmm> Type.......................................................................................................................................................Plywood
[15:56:39] <Jymmm> Content..................................................................................................................................................Machine
[15:56:40] <Jymmm> Weight....................................................................................................................................................309 lbs.
[15:56:42] <Jymmm> Length/Width/Height...................................................................................................................28 x 30 x 35 in.
[15:56:44] <Jymmm> Carton #2
[15:56:46] <Jymmm> Type...................................................................................................................................................Cardboard
[15:56:48] <Jymmm> Content......................................................................................................................................................Stand
[15:56:50] <Jymmm> Weight......................................................................................................................................................77 lbs.
[15:56:52] <Jymmm> Length/Width/Height...................................................................................................................18 x 15 x 33 in.
[15:57:36] <Jymmm> 1hp spindle
[15:58:06] <Jymmm> spindle travel 2"
[16:01:46] <atmega> teh few times I've actually used a mill, the work was held in a vise. If you clamp it to the bed, how do you keep from skimming the bed with the tooling?
[16:02:08] <Jymmm> sacraficial material under it
[16:03:06] <Jymmm> B16 taper ???? Never heard of it
[16:03:26] <atmega> what has that?
[16:03:39] <Jymmm> your futur mill
[16:03:44] <atmega> R8
[16:03:57] <Jymmm> Drill Chuck 1⁄16"-1⁄2" with B16 Taper
[16:05:23] <archivist> thats only the chuck it mounts onto an arbour
[16:05:47] <Jymmm> ah
[16:07:18] <TekniQue> I picked up a new rotary tool for my router, http://www.proxxon.de/eng/html/28485.html
[16:08:26] <atmega> that's a long shaft
[16:08:37] <Jymmm> wee badgerng atmega purchase at this time, TekniQue take a number and well badger your purchase asap
[16:09:26] <atmega> Jymm: as far as my wife will know, it only cost $500ish so I'm pretty badgerproof :)
[16:09:34] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/MORGON-MILLING-AND-DRILLING-MACHINE-MD-30A-/290509394292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a3b59174
[16:10:13] <Jymmm> atmega: Wel, you better get out the table saw and add an addtion to the dogs house
[16:10:17] <TekniQue> Jymmm: :D
[16:10:30] <atmega> there are some nifty G0704 videos on youtube including some 200ipm aluminum cuts
[16:10:47] <TekniQue> atmega: yeah I figure the long shaft will make it easier to mount
[16:10:55] <TekniQue> and have good clearance
[16:11:14] <atmega> yeah, you get some distance between the mounts
[16:18:00] <Jymmm> atmega: The Y leadscrew n he back doens't have a cover
[16:18:08] <archivist> so who is anon investor !!
[16:18:39] <JT-Hardinge> yea, I'm ready to send them a check right now LOL
[16:20:21] <archivist> they cannot scam money off me...there is no money
[16:20:41] <Jymmm> archivist: they can peddle your ass though
[16:21:03] <atmega> Jymm: I think the motor will go in the back
[16:21:05] <archivist> we have to to peddle asses
[16:21:09] <archivist> you
[16:21:33] <Jymmm> I'm no pimp
[16:22:01] <Jymmm> peddle your own ass!
[16:22:13] <atmega> eliminate the middleman
[16:22:56] <Jymmm> HAHAHA..... imagine archivist in fishnets (scarry)
[16:23:04] <archivist> we are a loose association of independents we dont need an anon
[16:25:19] <Jymmm> Interesting.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia
[16:25:34] <archivist> we may just need a links page to those that "can do" to supply a particular part or job as needed, which we already do to some extent
[16:26:24] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, just don't cook it too hot, it turns very bitter
[16:26:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: like n suaces?
[16:26:45] <SWPadnos> or cookies
[16:26:51] <Jymmm> oh
[16:27:02] <SWPadnos> or very hot tea, I think
[16:27:28] <Jymmm> I think my kettle gets to ~180f
[16:27:39] <SWPadnos> ?
[16:27:40] <Jymmm> and k so far
[16:27:45] <SWPadnos> you should be able to boil water
[16:27:53] <atmega> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260701513053
[16:28:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: electric kettle
[16:28:16] <Jymmm> temp cntrled
[16:28:19] <SWPadnos> yep. should still boil water
[16:28:27] <Jymmm> close =)
[16:28:35] <SWPadnos> ours does :)
[16:28:40] <archivist> atmega, too flexible for metal cutting
[16:28:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 180f works for me, it's very hot
[16:29:06] <atmega> yeah, I just bought a cheap green chinese mill for that
[16:29:08] <Jymmm> im guessing n the temp
[16:29:23] <atmega> still nifty looking for $40 for a router or something
[16:30:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: why is it illegal in some areas?
[16:30:43] <SWPadnos> no idea. I scanned over the part about some flawed mutagen study
[16:30:49] <SWPadnos> probably due to the sugar industry
[16:30:55] <SWPadnos> (IMO)
[16:30:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnosglobally thugh?
[16:31:57] <SWPadnos> probably not
[16:32:00] <SWPadnos> who knows
[16:32:48] <Jymmm> many mutations cause cancer, mutagens are typically also carcinogens
[16:32:54] <Jymmm> nice
[16:33:27] <SWPadnos> well, the little bit I read said that the study would have caused distilled water to look like a mutagen
[16:33:28] <L84Supper> ever read the MSDS on ethanol?
[16:33:30] <SWPadnos> so I stopped reading there :)
[16:34:37] <TekniQue> L84Supper: no
[16:34:47] <TekniQue> but I imagine it says something like, may cause unwanted pregnancies
[16:39:27] <atmega> I know several unintended pregnancies/marriages due to ethanol
[16:39:52] <Jymmm> ...and divorces to I'd suspect
[16:39:56] <Jymmm> too
[16:46:33] <archivist> Dihydrogen Monoxide is exceedingly dangerous http://www.dhmo.org/
[16:47:07] <Jymmm> archivist: what is it?
[16:47:26] <archivist> erm stuff
[16:47:35] <Jymmm> ERM?
[16:47:46] <archivist> go read a little
[16:48:00] <Jymmm> too much spam on that link
[16:48:09] <Jymmm> in a nutshell
[16:48:49] <archivist> very little spam
[16:49:00] <archivist> its all factual
[16:49:11] <SWPadnos> heh. Acme Klein Bottles "where yesterdays future is here today"
[16:49:22] <SWPadnos> (I have one on my shelf actually :) )
[16:50:27] <L84Supper> "searching for a one sided surface?"
[16:50:35] <SWPadnos> got one, thanks
[16:51:11] <JT-Hardinge> anyone ever connect Chinese scales to EMC like this http://www.shumatech.com/web/products/dro-550
[16:51:40] <L84Supper> there must be a way to combine a mobius strip and a zero volume bottle
[16:51:58] <SWPadnos> dunno. the update rate isn't fast enough for use as real feedback
[16:55:51] <TekniQue> oh that looks nice
[16:55:57] <TekniQue> I need a DRO for my lathe
[16:56:20] <TekniQue> s/need/want/
[16:57:14] <Jymmm> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-11945649
[17:02:26] <L84Supper> there are several ARM tablets priced ~$150 that would do the job, most only have USB 2.0 ports for IO
[17:03:39] <TekniQue> yeah thats the thing
[17:03:44] <TekniQue> you still need interface hardware
[17:03:46] <TekniQue> for the sensors
[17:04:36] <JT-Hardinge> I build a couple of the DRO 350's for some manual machines a while back
[17:05:14] <JT-Hardinge> I wasn't thinking of using them for a CNC but just use EMC as the DRO part
[17:05:29] <JT-Hardinge> or HAL for that matter
[17:08:15] <TekniQue> yeah I don't think I'm going to CNC the lathe
[17:10:42] <pcw_home> I think it would be fairly simple to get the HostMot2 bit twiddler interface to talk to those scales
[17:10:43] <pcw_home> (though I think you need a strange level shifter because common scales have positive ground)
[17:19:18] <L84Supper> http://www.mini-box.com/mini-2440-Samsung-S3C2240-ARM9-Board-7-TFT these boards put GPIO and the system bus on headers
[17:19:44] <L84Supper> I have to track down the matching IO boards in China
[17:39:03] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[18:06:40] <L84Supper> these are too pricey, but do combine ARM soc's with an onboard FPGA http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/arm-sbc.php
[18:10:10] <TekniQue> i don't think they're so pricey
[18:10:37] <TekniQue> those FPGAs are really expensive
[18:13:39] <L84Supper> the Cyclone on the http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7300 is only $20 at Digikey @ quan 1
[18:13:48] <L84Supper> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/586608-ic-cyclone-ii-fpga-8k-208-pqfp-ep2c8q208c8n.html
[18:20:20] <TekniQue> that is some funky routing on that board
[18:20:21] <TekniQue> heh
[18:20:40] <L84Supper> a low cost source of these would be nice - USB Numeric Displays http://www.delcomproducts.com/products_USBNDisplay.asp
[18:21:52] <TekniQue> wow, these are expensive
[18:21:59] <L84Supper> I've talked to them ... I never asked what PCB tools they use..... definitely not Allegro
[18:22:23] <atmega> geeez... all that mental work I did and the G0704's are backordered until Feb. so they cancelled my order
[18:22:50] <L84Supper> they understand FPGA's...... pcb routing ... well..... not so much
[18:31:59] <psha> Bonny: hi
[18:32:07] <Bonny> hello...
[18:32:52] <Bonny> I'm updatet wiki..
[18:33:56] <L84Supper> would an EMC patch be welcome that would add realtime gpio for features such as laser on/off, extruder on/off, printhead firing etc etc?
[18:35:09] <Bonny> What about one shoot component?
[18:37:00] <SWPadnos> L84Supper, I believe the M6x codes are realtime (they're synchronized with motion)
[18:37:14] <SWPadnos> the issue is that they only happen at the start or end of a move
[18:37:46] <L84Supper> SWPadnos: yes, I was looking at making them independent of the start and end of moves
[18:37:56] <SWPadnos> so if you want a dashed line, for example, you can't program a line and a "dash pattern", you have to program every segment of the line (on move off move on move off move ...) separately
[18:38:14] <L84Supper> this was discussed about a year ago
[18:38:23] <SWPadnos> several times :)
[18:38:35] <L84Supper> yeah :)
[18:39:06] <SWPadnos> I think we talked about making a component that would take in an image or array of numbers, and play them back based on an X or XY location input
[18:39:14] <SWPadnos> basically a grid lookup function
[18:39:25] <skunkworks> i think someone did that...
[18:39:30] <SWPadnos> might be so
[18:39:32] <L84Supper> not useful for machine tools but handy for 3D printers, laser etching, inkjets ec
[18:39:34] <SWPadnos> I know it was discussed
[18:39:46] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Rastering_With_A_Laser
[18:42:10] <SWPadnos> oh cool. I didn't know (or remember) about that
[18:42:22] <SWPadnos> a little kludgey, but still
[18:43:38] <psha> Bonny: what component? tracking?
[18:43:57] <L84Supper> I've used the position info to sync a framebuffer with the image data but it was all done external to EMC, the gcode was just a path to scan the printing area
[18:44:21] <Bonny> NO. Just added info how to do what I already done.
[18:45:31] <Bonny> The Camera work perfect.. So I do no have any need to mess it. (Just maybe BGR-RGB conversion someday)
[18:47:43] <psha> may you take a look at current features added by mhaberler?
[18:47:53] <psha> it's possible to hook arbitrary python script to button
[18:48:10] <psha> so maybe it's easier to do math calculations in python and not in gcode
[18:48:36] <Bonny> Not for me.. I'm not good in programming.
[18:48:48] <Bonny> (I mean in python and C)
[18:49:19] <Bonny> Just right now I have no clue how to compile simple console application (winXp)
[18:49:34] <psha> but you've written that in gcode :) which is far more difficult then python or C :)
[18:49:40] <Bonny> examples from http://www.winsocketdotnetworkprogramming.com/winsock2programming/winsock2advancedotherprotocol4.html
[18:50:41] <Bonny> Probably. But I know little Gcode and little more basic and I'm pro in Assembly for 8051 derivates.
[18:50:54] <L84Supper> most laser systems are just one laser, inkjets might have 1K's of nozzles, 3D printers might be one or a few nozzles
[18:52:26] <L84Supper> the inkjet guys would go nuts if there was a GPL solution since they keep everything so secret
[18:52:30] <Bonny> For now the Gcode is just ok. But in future may switch in other. (for tracing edge with cam for example)
[18:53:11] <Bonny> L84Supper Do you have servo or stepper?
[18:54:05] <L84Supper> Bonny: we usually use servos on inkjets, but low cost 3D is all stepper
[18:54:27] <Bonny> If you have stepper I think you can count step pulses and turn laser on off based on steper count
[18:54:49] <Bonny> all stuf is already in hal.
[18:55:28] <L84Supper> the Rastering with a Laser looks good enough to work with for lasers and 3D printers with extruders or syringes
[18:57:03] <L84Supper> https://github.com/jedediah/hacklab-engraver the custom HAL
[20:13:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[20:13:41] <SWPadnos> phone
[20:13:43] <Jymmm> k
[20:15:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: In the meantime... Do you know of something simple where I could use a bluetooth HID keyboard to emulate a terminal to a serial port (to my radio 9600baud)
[20:15:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Or, USB to serial (same scenario)
[20:48:46] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I don't know of any USB host to serial port adapters
[20:49:05] <SWPadnos> all the ones I've seen are USB device to serial (ie, something you plug into a PC to give it a serial port)
[21:01:08] <L84Supper> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/USBRSxxx.htm they have USB host to serial
[21:06:30] <SWPadnos> those PCB-mount modules are cool
[21:07:56] <L84Supper> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Modules/DLPModules.htm are the USB modules with all kinds of IO
[22:16:22] <davec> davec is now known as Guest86338
[22:59:49] <MattyMatt> "This is an old machine so expect some wear" means it's clapped out, doesn't it? I think I've seen this same machine before about 6 months ago
[23:00:54] <MattyMatt> "however in the direct drive (non back geared) the spindle needs a hand (literally) to start the chuck rotating." does that mean gummy grase or underspecced motor?
[23:01:41] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Smart-Brown-Model-M-Mk1-Lathe-Single-Phase-/130461293747
[23:01:58] <MattyMatt> the last one I saw was green, and that's not a fresh paint job
[23:03:31] <MattyMatt> meh, I don't have £200, so wth
[23:08:31] <MattyMatt> lathes were going much cheaper this time last year. I think british manufacturing is waking up from its long slumber
[23:09:08] <L84Supper> yes, I noticed some of the same old equipment sale today that I found in my searches over the summer
[23:09:48] <L84Supper> my favorite line in the Ad was " let's face it, you're not going to be making parts for NASA"
[23:11:14] <MattyMatt> this one looks ripe for conversion http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WARD-CAPSTAN-LATHE-2DS-/160514198657
[23:13:34] <MattyMatt> there's more than £150 of metal in that one
[23:13:40] <L84Supper> does it come complete with a set of Oompa Loompas to run it?
[23:14:56] <L84Supper> I came across a few near me that were located in basements. They would have had to be removed with a bulldozer
[23:15:34] <MattyMatt> that one looks like a clear ton
[23:16:10] <MattyMatt> or two, if that's a full size dustbin to the left
[23:17:16] <MattyMatt> more like 4, compare it with the yellow forklift parked behind it
[23:24:01] <MattyMatt> will NASA be making their own parts in future? looks like SpaceX have got the knack now
[23:25:00] <MattyMatt> sweet launch today
[23:30:59] <Valen> aparently congress has mandated nasa build a new heavy launcher
[23:31:20] <Valen> and the guy from where they make the SRB's is pushing for them to use SRB based stuff
[23:31:29] <Valen> or space shuttle stuff
[23:31:40] <Valen> no matter how stupidly expensive it winds up making things
[23:32:00] <Valen> go nasa way, $1Bn per launch and $30Bn development
[23:32:16] <Valen> get newspace to do it, $1Bn development, $100M per launch
[23:33:43] <Valen> (alt space would do it for $100M development, and $10M per launch but it would look like it was made in a washing machine factory (because thats where it would be made) and blow up every once in a while (till they work the kinks out), but having the occasional explosion is regarded as a failure by the media and congress rather than a fairly efficent way of finding weakness)