#emc | Logs for 2010-11-03

[00:04:20] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:35:13] <Grommit> has anyone use the ddm-tech.com servos with EMC2?
[00:35:23] <Grommit> use==used
[00:36:34] <andypugh> Not that I know of, though I have frequently looked at the site.
[00:37:16] <andypugh> I seem to recall some debate about whether there is an encoder output usable by emc2
[00:38:57] <Grommit> They have absolute encoders (is that a problem for EMC?) but I don't know if they have output that EMC can use....
[00:39:44] <andypugh> EMC2 would need feedback of some sort to close the positioning loop.
[00:42:00] <Grommit> They show db-9 connectors from the motor encoder...
[00:42:30] <andypugh> http://www.dmm-tech.com/Files/Dyn2-spec.pdf
[00:49:37] <Grommit> So this drive is closing the servo loop, yes? EMC could still control it, but wouldn't get position feedback?
[00:51:26] <Valen> drive it as a stepper perhaps?
[00:56:14] <andypugh> It might be worth contacting them. That spec sheet shows a bunch of serial comms and a PWM.
[00:57:41] <Grommit> What specifically would I ask them? is there an encoder output? Can I drive it with an outboard PWM? ?
[00:57:56] <Valen> PWM + direction
[01:25:05] <andypugh> You don't necessarily mind driving it with step and direction, but emc2 needs to know where it is. So you need either a quadrature encoder output, or some form of serial data that EMC2 can use.
[01:57:55] <Grommit> Why does it need to be quadrature output? Why can't EMC use the absolute position?
[02:01:04] <Valen> if you are driving it with step and direction EMC doesn't need to know anything about it
[02:01:09] <Valen> just drive it like a stepper
[02:01:18] <Valen> just need some kind of home output
[07:49:14] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[13:16:09] <JT-Hardinge> cradek: do you have one of these? http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,5049/lang,english/#5055
[13:17:07] <cradek> no
[13:17:14] <JT-Hardinge> ok thanks
[13:17:21] <cradek> maxnc has made machines for 20 years - they have changed drives a lot
[13:17:43] <cradek> asking someone else with a maxnc what kind of drives you have is not a useful tactic IMO
[13:18:15] <JT-Hardinge> I see, I didn't have a clue about maxnc
[13:18:41] <cradek> my original drivers were shittastic phase drive
[13:18:56] <cradek> they also had step/dir drives and proprietary "as good as servos! honest!" drives
[13:19:16] <JT-Hardinge> sounds like time for a hammer
[13:19:21] <cradek> yeah
[13:19:41] <cradek> their proprietary scheme had encoders - I have no idea what it was
[13:20:54] <cradek> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/29842
[13:21:15] <cradek> yeah, looks weird - no idea what it is
[13:21:37] <cradek> has he plugged these 19 wires into a parport? those (obviously) aren't a parport pinout
[13:21:38] <JT-Hardinge> me neither, didn't make any sense to me
[13:22:19] <JT-Hardinge> thanks for the info
[13:22:42] <cradek> np
[13:25:04] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge goes back to removing the chips from the holes
[14:07:49] <psha> psha is now known as psha_
[14:08:41] <atmega> what kind of tooling would you use to radius the edges in this: http://www.artichoke.org/holder.jpg
[14:10:20] <skunkworks_> they make round over bits.
[14:10:37] <atmega> and use the same tool path as the cutter?
[14:10:52] <skunkworks_> you really see them in wood working - but I have seen them in metal working
[14:11:17] <skunkworks_> you might back it out just a little bit so that you don't get a ledge.
[14:11:52] <JT-Hardinge> atmega: http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/cornerroundingcutters.aspx
[14:13:42] <atmega> the radius is in the end of the cutter?
[14:13:51] <skunkworks_> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=619-2303&PMPXNO=16720059&PARTPG=INLMK
[14:14:42] <skunkworks_> or wood working.. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00964213000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
[14:15:23] <atmega> I might have one of those
[14:15:47] <atmega> guess I need a better spindle with a bigger collet
[14:16:27] <atmega> the guy that makes teh stuff in the pic (and more, really nice looking stuff) uses a table saw and a router table
[14:17:52] <skunkworks_> atmega: sure.
[14:18:10] <skunkworks_> things can actually made without the help of a cnc.. ;)
[14:18:33] <atmega> yeah, but I like to make things move
[14:18:47] <skunkworks_> (I don't understand those people either)
[14:18:49] <atmega> I'd be a terrible machinist
[14:20:29] <atmega> the actual cutting useful stuff is secondary to making things move where you tell them
[14:20:38] <psha_> psha_ is now known as psha
[14:39:17] <JT-Hardinge> weee rigid tapping some 3/8-16 holes in 1018 next :)
[14:43:42] <cradek> spiral point, I hope?
[14:44:01] <JT-Hardinge> yea, thru holes :)
[14:44:06] <cradek> how thick?
[14:45:09] <JT-Hardinge> 1/2"
[14:45:28] <JT-Hardinge> I chicken to do spiral flute (blind holes)
[14:45:45] <cradek> I'm not chicken, but I'm too poor to buy the taps
[14:46:01] <cradek> I did some 1/2-13 blind last night - by hand tap :-P
[14:46:26] <JT-Hardinge> I just let my other brother John tap the blind holes now
[14:46:27] <cradek> still, having the tap upright (using a springy pointy thing in the mill) is very helpful
[14:46:49] <cradek> heh, being the only one who doesn't break taps off, I do them myself
[14:46:51] <archivist> spiral taps make all the difference :)
[14:49:08] <JT-Hardinge> I have a basic set of spiral flute taps that I use on blind holes in aluminum by hand
[14:58:42] <JT-Hardinge> that was fun... nothing broke
[15:00:00] <skunkworks_> lathe or mill?
[15:04:00] <JT-Hardinge> mill
[15:04:14] <JT-Hardinge> the BP Discovery 308 VMC one
[15:14:16] <skunkworks_> neat
[15:33:25] <kb8wmc> cradek, are you around?
[15:46:35] <kb8wmc> I am not doing something correctly and am receiving an error when loading .dxf into EMC
[15:46:42] <kb8wmc> the error is as follows:
[15:46:58] <kb8wmc> G-Code error
[15:47:35] <kb8wmc> Near line 2 of /home/mike/emc2/nc_files/gantry_side.dxf:
[15:47:54] <kb8wmc> Bad character '0' used.
[15:47:58] <skinnypup> emc doesnt handle .dxf natively
[15:48:04] <psha> have you set up dxf converter?
[15:48:41] <kb8wmc> attempting to use "Realize"
[15:48:48] <skinnypup> check out sheetcam.com , i know the linux version is a few behind but it does a lot
[15:49:08] <skinnypup> and is free
[15:49:48] <kb8wmc> thanks skinny, will look at it, but I was hoping to use something directly in ACAD2000
[15:50:18] <skinnypup> Sure, i'd try it out too if i had AC2000
[15:50:33] <kb8wmc> cradek has the solution as to what I was looking for
[15:52:15] <skinnypup> cd /home/mike/emc2/nc_files/
[15:52:16] <skinnypup> head -n 10 gantry_side.dxf
[15:52:28] <skinnypup> would help to see whats in that file
[15:53:48] <kb8wmc> rgr...
[15:54:17] <atmega> I tried to try realize the other day. I got it to generate drill code fine, but my mill stuff didn't work. Pretty easy to visualize with colored layers too
[15:55:18] <kb8wmc> rgr that atmega
[15:56:12] <kb8wmc> I know I am missing some step
[15:56:42] <atmega> the part where it asks you for a filename
[15:57:04] <kb8wmc> and I believe it is when I initially run realize and select the filename...
[15:57:09] <kb8wmc> yes atmega
[16:01:04] <kb8wmc> I know when I get this figured out it will be something simple that I am presently doing incorrectly
[17:36:20] <kb8wmc> g'day all, back again
[17:44:32] <atmega> any luck?
[17:44:58] <kb8wmc> atmega: no, tried something different this last time, still no joy
[17:45:24] <kb8wmc> I think it has to do with how I am saving the file
[17:46:30] <kb8wmc> there is no Header in the file for one thing
[17:51:15] <kb8wmc> wb skinny
[17:51:35] <kb8wmc> g'day andy
[17:58:56] <andypugh> Hi
[18:30:16] <motioncontrol> good evenig i want some idea for tool lathe presetting is can ?
[18:30:33] <skunkworks_> kinda cool! http://softsolder.com/2010/05/06/sherline-cnc-mill-digital-knurling/
[18:32:08] <skinnypup> Thats neat skunkworks
[18:34:55] <motioncontrol> i have aturret with 16 tool lathe. i have preset all tool on the piece for x and z coordinate.for preset it i call m6 t1 , go on piece in x read the quote the maschine position and write in x offset ?
[18:43:01] <JT-Hardinge> I set my lathe tools Z offset from the spindle face, X offset from spindle center, touch off my g54 Z offset from the workpeice
[18:48:59] <motioncontrol> i have prove this. change m6 t1 , and enable g43 tool offset.when change m6 t2 the offset not is active i write again g43 for enable offset, but this not is correct
[18:49:41] <motioncontrol> JT-Hardinge, i don't can remenber every change tool the enable g43
[18:58:34] <atmega> anyone use DraftSight?
[18:59:23] <cradek> motioncontrol: you are right: you need to program G43 after every tool change. This is the same for mill or lathe.
[19:00:09] <kb8wmc> g'day cradek
[19:00:40] <kb8wmc> I am doing something incorrect with Realize
[19:01:24] <cradek> well stop doing that
[19:01:51] <kb8wmc> lol
[19:02:07] <kb8wmc> sure would if I knew what it was that was incorrect
[19:03:00] <kb8wmc> right now, I am guessing that my error comes at the time I save the file
[19:03:42] <kb8wmc> brb...afk
[19:17:54] <motioncontrol> cradek, excuse for wait. i have on lathe 16 tool. every tool change i call g43 ?
[19:21:59] <motioncontrol> cradek, ok have traslate.but for preset all 16 tool on x zero piece and z zero piece, i change tool m6 t1 , read the x position maschine and z position maschine and write this position on x and z offset in tool table ?
[19:33:09] <kb8wmc> back in
[19:34:21] <motioncontrol> i have prove m3 whith g96 s200 d800 and when move x have costant velocity,but if have m4 and g96 s200 d800 and move x the velocity the spindle not change because ?
[19:48:37] <grommit> I have a joystick for manual control of my EMCO mill. It was set up according to: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant I want to have a button (or jog speed) that will move a single, specific amount each time a button or jog is pressed. it is possible to set a jog speed that coorelates to "move 0.001"? I have buttons 1,2,3 set to specific jog speeds, and was hoping I could somewhow assign button 4
[19:54:21] <JT-Hardinge> grommit: when you figure that out add it to the wiki your not the first to want that
[19:55:10] <grommit> I like your thinking..."when you figure it out" no "if" :-)
[19:56:08] <kb8wmc> be back in a few
[20:06:20] <psha> grommit: if halui lacks ability of fixed jog it may be added
[20:09:43] <grommit> how?
[20:11:15] <psha> if you give me half an hour i may modify add it to halui
[20:11:45] <grommit> as in an update to EMC, or just a change to a local file?
[20:12:26] <psha> you may recompile halui only
[20:13:08] <grommit> I installed from the LiveCD, would have have to rebuild using dev build or something?
[20:20:10] <psha> as halui is C program you need to rebuild it after making changes
[20:20:25] <psha> or wait for snapshot build
[20:20:49] <grommit> can I rebuild it and add the new module to my build from the livecd?
[20:21:07] <psha> yes
[20:21:19] <psha> halui is userspace component so it must be found somewhere in PATH
[20:21:41] <psha> so let me take a look on it first :)
[20:21:47] <grommit> that would very cool!
[20:22:49] <psha> as another workaround you may create simple python component responsible for fixed joggin only
[20:23:15] <grommit> I think you just stepped beyond my capabilities...
[20:24:02] <psha> so let it be python comp :)
[20:27:38] <grommit> does that mean I am on my own?
[20:27:53] <psha> i think i may help a bit... :)
[20:28:05] <grommit> oh good :-)
[20:29:55] <grommit> so, will you create something like halui.jog.fixed-distance and map that to a commanded postion move of that distance?
[20:56:35] <psha> grommit: you may test somethink like this
[20:56:47] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/p/fixedjog.py
[20:56:53] <psha> something
[20:57:30] <psha> it's only capable of one jog at time
[20:58:20] <atmega> he reboots to linux to irc, back to win* for autocad
[21:04:45] <grommit> psha: what do I do with it, exactly?
[21:08:54] <psha> load it as userspace component
[21:12:16] <psha> it would create fixed-jog.* pins
[21:12:20] <psha> connect to them and be happy )
[21:13:04] <psha> grommit: redownload
[21:13:39] <psha> set fixed-jog.speed and .step to needed values
[21:13:54] <psha> then trigger fixed-jog.AXIS-NUMBER to jog
[21:13:59] <grommit> I did open file from Axis and I think it crashed...
[21:14:09] <grommit> Oh hang on, I see you said redownload...
[21:14:40] <psha> loadusr -Wn fixed-jog path/to/fixedjog.py
[21:14:46] <psha> in hal file
[21:18:00] <andypugh> grommit: How ugly are you prepared to use?
[21:18:53] <grommit> what do you mean?
[21:18:54] <andypugh> You _could_ link an MDI_COMMAND to the jog button, and call a G91 X0.01
[21:19:28] <psha> andypugh: leaving grommit to you :)
[21:19:41] <psha> it's already night and time to sleep :)
[21:20:09] <andypugh> For more elaboration, HAL logic could put the desired X/Y/Z offsets into three G-code analogue inputs.
[21:21:41] <andypugh> Alternatively (and this is probably neater) some HAL logic could increment/decrement some counters connected to the same hal-pins as you use for a MPG.
[21:22:33] <grommit> sounds great expcept I have no idea how to do that :-)
[21:26:52] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_emc2hal.html
[21:26:58] <andypugh> axis.n.jog-counts
[21:27:26] <andypugh> That's where the "signal" needs to go.
[21:27:57] <grommit> looking....
[21:33:01] <andypugh> what I am seeing is a sample-hold function wired back to itself with an add2, so that any time the "hold" bit goes high, it takes on the value of itself+increment. You then wire the output of that to the jog pin.
[21:34:22] <cradek> grommit has the right idea - if you want incremental jog, just add it to halui
[21:34:26] <cradek> all the other guis have incremental jog
[21:35:09] <andypugh> psha has the right idea, grommit and I are just bodging with the existing structure.
[21:35:38] <grommit> well, one of us is anyways (not me) :-)
[21:36:20] <andypugh> Ah, cradek, while you are there: How would you rate the chances of running MaxNC closed-loop drivers from EMC2?
[21:36:53] <cradek> I don't know anything about their proprietary drivers
[21:37:01] <cradek> so, uh, 50%
[21:37:31] <andypugh> No guesses what the interface protocol might be? I guess it could be anything, including morse code.
[21:37:32] <skunkworks> heh
[21:37:45] <cradek> some pinout on some web bbs says something about quadrature
[21:37:55] <cradek> it's made of a bunch of PICs
[21:38:12] <andypugh> Yeah, But I would guess that might only be the open-loop variant.
[21:38:12] <cradek> so yeah, I'm guessing morse code, or gcode encoded in baudot
[21:38:36] <skunkworks> EIA?
[21:38:50] <cradek> why not fire up the original software and reverse engineer the output
[21:38:54] <andypugh> StepNC in baudot.
[21:39:05] <andypugh> That was my most recent suggestion.
[21:39:16] <andypugh> (using halscope to watch the pins)
[21:39:53] <cradek> how would you run halscope and the original software at the same time?
[21:39:54] <grommit> so who will add fixed-jog.speed and fixed-jog.step to halui?
[21:39:55] <andypugh> That might need two PCs, or possibly not.
[21:40:45] <andypugh> grommit: It's open source, feel free to do it yourself :-)
[21:41:56] <andypugh> Other options are a mess of edge detectors, sample-holds and suchlike in HAL.
[21:42:26] <andypugh> Or potentially a hal component that does much the same thing as a single block.
[21:42:27] <grommit> I am feeling free, just not able :-P
[21:43:18] <andypugh> Which parallel port pin do you want to use for x-jog-plus?
[21:44:00] <andypugh> I can make up a bit of HAL code to do one axis. The rest would be much the same
[21:46:26] <grommit> I want to hold down input.0.btn-top (on my cheapo joystick) and as a result have each push on the X,Y,and/orZ joysticks move an incremental distance.
[21:46:49] <grommit> Not sure how that translates to parallel port pin
[21:54:12] <andypugh> Ah, OK, no problem.
[21:56:40] <grommit> gotta go, will try to check back later and/or look at archive... thx for the help (and snide remarks) all!
[21:57:13] <andypugh> grommit: 3 mins?
[21:57:39] <grommit> ok, 3 mins...
[21:59:59] <andypugh> Ah, forget it.
[22:00:53] <andypugh> http://www.pastebin.ca/1981048
[22:02:40] <andypugh> Except that it needs functions to convert s32 to float and back again as sum2 can't add integers. It needs to not use motion.spindle (that was just a button I had to test with), instead it needs some more logic on buttons and joystick values, and the setp has to replace the hard-coded 3 with the reqired jog increment
[22:03:07] <andypugh> So, other than being no use at all, and not working, and only being one axis, untested, job done.
[22:04:19] <grommit> :-)
[22:05:02] <andypugh> It is an approach that can be made to work.
[22:05:18] <andypugh> But it would be a lot better built in to halui, or into a comp
[22:05:47] <grommit> I used to work with a French guy who, when asked: "Is that software done?" used to say "Basically" (though he pronounced it "Bass-ically")_and it meant NO! :-)
[22:06:10] <andypugh> Even with it in halui, you will still need window-comparators and and2 functions to make your inputs into a form that halui would take.
[22:06:43] <andypugh> Did he work for Delphi or Siemens? Sounds very familier.
[22:08:48] <grommit> I worked with him at a small comapny but he moved back to France and worked for Motorola (may still)...
[22:10:58] <grommit> now I do have to leave. thx again.
[22:14:59] <Jymmm> BAH I made a box that at the resonant freq!!!
[22:18:13] <andypugh> Ah, scrolling back, psha's pythin file was all ready to run and use, wasn't it?
[22:39:18] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[23:07:19] <dimas> hi all
[23:07:43] <dimas> i'm finishing mechanical part of small router
[23:07:52] <dimas> my first one
[23:08:21] <dimas> i have L297 stepper drivers from pminmo.com
[23:08:44] <dimas> and few nema17 motors from office equipment
[23:09:38] <dimas> drivers need input voltage more then 18v dc
[23:10:52] <dimas> is it ok for nema17 motors? I do not have specs for them
[23:12:05] <dimas> then I tried one it got very hot too fast
[23:12:58] <dimas> when I tried one it got very hot too fast
[23:15:52] <dimas> less input voltage I think is not enough for +5v power converter and driver does not work
[23:17:12] <dimas> may be I need external +5v power source and less power voltage on L298 and motors, what do you think?
[23:31:36] <kb8wmc> g'evening all