#emc | Logs for 2010-11-02

[00:03:49] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:32:51] <cncmachineguy> anybody there?
[00:33:06] <pcncx> I am
[00:33:50] <cncmachineguy> i want to control 6 steppers through 1 parallel port, but it won't leave much left for i/o
[00:34:00] <cncmachineguy> any suggestions?
[00:34:15] <pcncx> buy a PCI add on port card?
[00:34:50] <cncmachineguy> thought about that, was hoping i could do something like the pluto card?
[00:34:58] <pcncx> sure that too
[00:35:06] <cncmachineguy> some way to talk to an external card
[00:35:10] <pcncx> do any of these motors do the same things as any others?
[00:35:22] <pcncx> like are any slaves?
[00:35:42] <cncmachineguy> no
[00:35:49] <pcncx> OK that nixes that idea
[00:36:11] <pcncx> my mahcine is going to have two slave pairs
[00:36:27] <pcncx> so it'll be a 3 axis just with 2 axis with 4 motors
[00:36:45] <pcncx> 5 total motors
[00:37:12] <cncmachineguy> this will be 4 axis hotwire/mill, so in mill mode, 2 will be z and 2 will be x. then a y and an a to change from hw to mill
[00:37:40] <pcncx> so those are slaved pairs
[00:37:58] <cncmachineguy> i can build uP cards and talk to them, but not sure how to tell emc to talk to it
[00:38:28] <cncmachineguy> they are only slaved in mill mode, h/w they are independent
[00:38:36] <pcncx> why aren't two motors on an axis slaves?
[00:39:19] <cncmachineguy> in hotwire mode, 2 x's and 2 z's are independent
[00:39:19] <pcncx> hmm I'm not seeing the kinematics but I thnk i know what yo uare driving at
[00:39:37] <pcncx> yeah you need more IO
[00:39:46] <cncmachineguy> think 4 axis hotwire, with a gantry for y
[00:40:23] <cncmachineguy> a will spin the gantry for a "tool change" between mill and hot wire
[00:40:55] <cncmachineguy> any ideas how the pluto card works?
[00:40:58] <pcncx> sounds ambitious
[00:41:42] <cncmachineguy> machines about done, starting to think about the control. default is 2 ports
[00:41:44] <pcncx> I've seen support for it in EMC so I'd imagine it works well
[00:42:06] <pcncx> does whatever it is supposed to do
[00:42:26] <pcncx> parallel port is about as low as it goes anything seems to be an improvement
[00:42:30] <cncmachineguy> any ideas how to talk to one i make myself?
[00:42:54] <cncmachineguy> cool thing about pluto is it runs from the para port
[00:43:22] <pcncx> hmm not so sure how cool that it I'd rather drect to the PCI bus
[00:43:54] <pcncx> pport is max 150 kb/s isn't it?
[00:44:04] <cncmachineguy> folks are WAY too proud of those cards!
[00:44:20] <cncmachineguy> not sure
[00:44:29] <pcncx> it must work on some sort of a masking and decoding scheme
[00:44:44] <pcncx> pretty simple
[00:44:57] <cncmachineguy> so does HAL do the talking to it?
[00:45:04] <pcncx> you figure on 8 bits alone you have 256 discrete combinations
[00:45:21] <pcncx> that ought to be enough outputs for anybody
[00:45:41] <cncmachineguy> yup! and easy to implement
[00:45:56] <cncmachineguy> 256 out and 256 in!
[00:46:03] <pcncx> well a 74154 will out 16 from 4
[00:46:18] <pcncx> as a demultiplexer
[00:46:31] <pcncx> so just two of those and you have 32 out
[00:46:45] <cncmachineguy> never even thought about going descreet
[00:46:52] <pcncx> which still ought to be enough for anybody
[00:47:21] <cncmachineguy> ive been pretty intimate with pic's for about 12 years now
[00:47:39] <pcncx> TTL is drop in and go solution
[00:47:47] <cncmachineguy> for $2 I can have 54 I/O
[00:47:56] <pcncx> neat
[00:47:58] <cncmachineguy> with brains
[00:48:08] <pcncx> sometimes brains get in the way
[00:48:13] <cncmachineguy> haha
[00:48:49] <cncmachineguy> but I am still stuck on how to get emc to send encoded signals instead of regular step/dir
[00:48:57] <pcncx> I keep on meaning to do something with a pic but always manage it with straight logic
[00:49:16] <cncmachineguy> let me go check that port speed, brb
[00:53:02] <cncmachineguy> well it would appear in epp mode, up to 2Mbps
[00:53:19] <pcncx> yeah there are the extended modes
[00:53:44] <pcncx> but that is bits not bytes?
[00:53:44] <cncmachineguy> my first pic project was reading an encoder and controlling 2 air valves
[00:54:54] <cncmachineguy> 2MBps, not sure if cap B is bytes or bits, I think bytes in this case
[00:54:56] <pcncx> I'm not sure if EMC is EPP aware or not
[00:55:14] <cncmachineguy> hmmm
[00:55:23] <pcncx> it may only do ECP
[00:55:40] <pcncx> it would be somethng I'd check out if it was my project
[00:56:51] <cncmachineguy> apperantly ECP is not supported over the pci bus, so it seems add on cards won't be ecp
[00:56:57] <pcncx> often this channel sounds like aliens communicating about world domination
[00:57:22] <pcncx> oh so it is only EPP?
[00:57:29] <cncmachineguy> yes, I plan on figuring this out. but as default, we add a para card
[00:57:36] <cncmachineguy> or spp
[00:57:49] <pcncx> that would be the easiest isn't SPP only one way?
[00:57:55] <cncmachineguy> it is a very funny read to look back on
[00:58:24] <cncmachineguy> maybe only epp
[00:58:26] <pcncx> oh wait SPP goes two ways but you can't toggle the initial 8 back and forth
[00:58:43] <pcncx> I think that is the difference SPP is only out mode
[00:58:54] <cncmachineguy> i think that is correct
[00:59:16] <pcncx> in SPP you have the 8 out and 5 in like out mode
[00:59:19] <cncmachineguy> sometimes i would almost pay good money to hav an isa bus
[00:59:43] <pcncx> I think they slow systems down too much anymore
[00:59:54] <cncmachineguy> so multiplexed, thats 256 out and 32 in
[01:00:02] <cncmachineguy> sounds a plenty
[01:00:32] <pcncx> now the thing is making USB gadgets
[01:00:43] <pcncx> though EMC doesn't do USB
[01:00:46] <cncmachineguy> they were too much trouble for builders too. but a dream to build your own I/O card for
[01:01:07] <cncmachineguy> too much delay between data
[01:01:12] <pcncx> is USB capable of real time?
[01:01:18] <cncmachineguy> NO
[01:01:22] <pcncx> I thought not
[01:01:37] <pcncx> that there was some sort of a timing constraint going on with it
[01:02:01] <pcncx> like it is asynch or something
[01:02:14] <pcncx> nothing i ever tried to mess with really
[01:02:18] <cncmachineguy> the through put is good, but the protocal allows for waiting to share the bus
[01:02:52] <cncmachineguy> i think it might be something like up to 10 mS delay
[01:03:04] <pcncx> ah it is polled
[01:03:09] <cncmachineguy> yup
[01:03:22] <pcncx> that would be a show stopper
[01:04:00] <cncmachineguy> there are some usb controllers out there, but im pretty sure they are buffering some number of commands
[01:04:25] <cncmachineguy> kinda takes the real out of real time
[01:04:28] <pcncx> a computer on the end of a wire
[01:04:39] <cncmachineguy> yup
[01:05:02] <pcncx> yeah why do with one computer what you can do with two?
[01:05:29] <pcncx> just so long as you're making cash off the second one of course
[01:05:30] <cncmachineguy> if it aint broke, fix it till it is!
[01:05:58] <pcncx> the PC I am using for EMC cost me exactly $0
[01:06:11] <cncmachineguy> see, im like if im gonna have the second one, whats the first one doing?
[01:06:23] <cncmachineguy> the beauty of emc
[01:06:36] <pcncx> I was at a yard sale and the lady had a pile of garbage in the corner of her garage and I asked her how much for the computer? she said you want it take it
[01:06:53] <cncmachineguy> I actually bought a brand new SBC for this project
[01:07:00] <cncmachineguy> i like yours better
[01:07:13] <pcncx> well my latency isn't the greatest but for free I'll live with it
[01:07:19] <cncmachineguy> i have it suped up with a disk on module for hdd
[01:07:48] <cncmachineguy> i have another machine running with a 300Mhz VIA sbc
[01:07:50] <pcncx> I'm sure if I was better at configuring it I could get a bit better performance out of it
[01:08:07] <cncmachineguy> runs just fine after it finally boots
[01:08:17] <pcncx> but as it is I have 60 IPM down good
[01:08:30] <pcncx> this machine boots in 16 seconds
[01:08:38] <pcncx> I ran bootchart on it
[01:08:50] <cncmachineguy> my 300 feels like 16 mins
[01:09:02] <pcncx> hmmm try bootchart on it see what is taking
[01:09:16] <cncmachineguy> the new one i bought for $84 boots in mere seconds
[01:09:48] <cncmachineguy> i will try that, or a stopwatch
[01:09:55] <pcncx> cncmachineguy it makes you one of these: http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png
[01:10:13] <cncmachineguy> have you upgraded to lynx?
[01:10:23] <pcncx> which is a tad better than what a stop watch tells you
[01:10:48] <pcncx> cncmachineguy oh i have the new lynx
[01:11:00] <pcncx> lunx-cur
[01:11:41] <cncmachineguy> thats a pretty picture, it would be a great tool to see what the holdup is
[01:11:48] <pcncx> yuppers
[01:12:04] <pcncx> aptitude install bootchart
[01:12:06] <cncmachineguy> do you like lynx
[01:12:11] <pcncx> no
[01:12:29] <cncmachineguy> i don't allow my machine controlers to talk to the outside world
[01:12:30] <pcncx> but it has gotten me out of some binds from time to time
[01:12:49] <pcncx> yes eventually I will cut most of the networking out of this machine when it goes into production
[01:13:04] <pcncx> just leave it enough for Linux to run
[01:13:38] <cncmachineguy> i have some dx32 controls on some bridgeports in my shop
[01:13:43] <cncmachineguy> they use dos
[01:13:49] <pcncx> awesone
[01:14:10] <pcncx> ms-dos?
[01:14:11] <cncmachineguy> but they have dedicated machine control boards to run the machine
[01:14:18] <cncmachineguy> yes
[01:14:22] <pcncx> wow
[01:14:33] <cncmachineguy> dos program just gives hmi
[01:14:42] <pcncx> ms-dos was a single tasking OS
[01:15:06] <pcncx> so I suppose it is suited to some machine control applications
[01:15:27] <cncmachineguy> in fact, i can lose the whole puter, and as long as i have bus power, the machine will run everytime you push go
[01:15:49] <cncmachineguy> ms-dos rules for this type stuff
[01:16:02] <cncmachineguy> there is only one task, run the machine
[01:16:40] <pcncx> years ago I wrote some machine assembler that ran on ms-dos
[01:16:44] <cncmachineguy> thats why i don't let them talk to the outside
[01:16:48] <pcncx> was quite speedy code
[01:17:03] <cncmachineguy> thats how i been programming my pics
[01:17:12] <Connor> So guys, what CAM software do you all use? I'm using Inventor for cad.. but need something to convert to g-code
[01:18:02] <cncmachineguy> mostly i write my own stuff
[01:18:17] <pcncx> I just use the gcode generators that ship with EMC
[01:18:34] <pcncx> I'm not interested in making designed parts per se
[01:19:03] <cncmachineguy> about 4 years ago i had a valid copy of feature cam, but i didn't like most of the code it made
[01:19:25] <cncmachineguy> also used phlatscript for sketchup. its ok
[01:19:34] <cncmachineguy> but y is backwards
[01:19:46] <pcncx> I hear lots of people talk about heekscad
[01:20:08] <Connor> gcode generator that came with EMC ?
[01:20:11] <pcncx> supposedly it can generate gcode or has a filter or something
[01:20:35] <cncmachineguy> @conner, 2.5d or 3d?
[01:20:38] <pcncx> Connor emc has a font script and imagetogcode
[01:20:55] <pcncx> well maybe 2 font scripts I'm not sure was reading about it yesterday
[01:22:00] <Connor> What's the diff?
[01:22:56] <Connor> Probably just 2.5D for now.. Cutting out basic shapes.
[01:23:29] <cncmachineguy> 2.5 d really only deals with x,y with a sorta fixed z. 3d has all 3 moving all the time
[01:23:54] <pcncx> Connor image2gcode
[01:25:28] <pcncx> pcncx http://timeguy.com/cradek/image-to-gcode
[01:27:35] <pcncx> Connor seems like cradek has something for autocad as well on his site
[01:33:35] <cncmachineguy> well i been thinking about my original question, maybe i should ask if anyone knows how to send commands out the para instead of just step/dir?
[01:34:14] <SWPadnos> the ppmc, pluto, and mesa-7i43 drivers all transfer data/"commands" via the parallel port
[01:34:52] <cncmachineguy> so how to configure a driver for my own card? with hal?
[01:35:01] <pcncx> SWPadnos are there any open source hardware implementations?
[01:35:09] <SWPadnos> nope, not that I know of
[01:35:28] <SWPadnos> unless the pluto schematics are available
[01:35:28] <pcncx> SWPadnos should we make one?
[01:35:40] <SWPadnos> if you like
[01:36:17] <pcncx> I'd open source my parallel port buffer and motor driver if I knew how
[01:36:53] <pcncx> neither are anything special but they both appear to work to me
[01:37:04] <SWPadnos> publish the schematics and PCB files in Eagle format (or something else that people might have access too for cheap/free)
[01:37:25] <SWPadnos> I think there was an I/O expsnder that someone made, with eagle schematics available
[01:37:33] <SWPadnos> but I don't remember who or where the files are
[01:37:44] <pcncx> yeah i have the eagle files for both
[01:38:37] <cncmachineguy> but i am missing something fundamental here, haw does the driver tell emc what to send out the port?
[01:38:45] <pcncx> my port buffer is sort of like this other guy's on the net but his has features I don't need and well I don't think he did some things on it too well
[01:40:59] <SWPadnos> the driver does the actual sending out the port, emc tells the driver what to do
[01:41:48] <cncmachineguy> so for instance, how did the driver developers know how to talk to emc?
[01:41:53] <SWPadnos> the motion controller outputs a new position every millisecond (or whatever your SERVO_PERIOD is), and other things in HAL cause something to get output to your hardware
[01:42:08] <pcncx> cncmachineguy manufacturers contributed drivers
[01:42:23] <SWPadnos> like a step generator that's connected to a parallel port driver, or a pid that's connected to something with analog (or PWM) outputs
[01:42:27] <pcncx> they were like hey a whole market
[01:42:49] <SWPadnos> kind of. some help more than others, some send a free card or two to a developer or two, etc
[01:43:12] <pcncx> past that a market of users used to reading instructions!
[01:43:34] <pcncx> what little we can get our hands on
[01:43:34] <SWPadnos> well, that seems to be changing, with all these newfangled GUI setup programs :)
[01:43:50] <cncmachineguy> oh. so generally speaking, its not something available to the general public?
[01:43:53] <SWPadnos> har har. there are like 800 pages of instructions
[01:43:59] <SWPadnos> what isn't?
[01:44:38] <cncmachineguy> i am actually trying to read all the instructions i can get my hands on
[01:44:53] <SWPadnos> get yoiurself a comfortable chair. it'll take a while
[01:45:06] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/5/5/lang,english/
[01:45:15] <pcncx> I've read getting started and the integrators guides
[01:45:37] <pcncx> though there is a lot of assumption that one is using the CD image
[01:46:00] <SWPadnos> I think there is some duplication in the pdfs
[01:46:11] <pcncx> it doesn't hurt to read some things twice
[01:46:12] <SWPadnos> well, for the getting started guide that makes sense
[01:46:27] <pcncx> you'll never hear a complaint from me!
[01:46:28] <SWPadnos> the easiest way to get a running system is to download and install from CD
[01:46:37] <cncmachineguy> mostly read the intergrators manual
[01:46:59] <cncmachineguy> yes, and that works great for 3 or 4 axis
[01:47:07] <SWPadnos> the HAL manual is probably a good place to look as well (I don't know how much of that is duplicated in the integrators manual)
[01:47:08] <pcncx> SWPadnos yes but assuming that is what everyone does doesn't always make it too easy on those that don't
[01:47:23] <SWPadnos> that's true enough
[01:47:29] <SWPadnos> cncmachineguy, what do you mean?
[01:47:36] <SWPadnos> (works great for 3 or 4 axis)
[01:47:37] <cncmachineguy> ethe cd
[01:47:51] <SWPadnos> there are 5 axis samples as well, I believe
[01:48:16] <cncmachineguy> just dl, burn, install, run stepconf wizard and you are off and running
[01:48:27] <SWPadnos> yes, stepconf is great for up to 4 axes
[01:48:43] <pcncx> SWPadnos I went nuts the other day trying to run stepconf I found the python script and kept on running that until micges pointed me to the bin directory
[01:48:47] <SWPadnos> there is also pncconf, which is much more comprehensive, but there aren't as many users
[01:48:56] <cncmachineguy> its also great to get a head start on the config files
[01:49:03] <SWPadnos> which stepconf :)
[01:49:19] <pcncx> that isn't on my path in run in place
[01:49:29] <SWPadnos> . scripts/emc-environment
[01:49:35] <SWPadnos> ^^^
[01:49:44] <cncmachineguy> my problem is i need to run 6 axis, but dont want to add a second para port
[01:49:44] <pcncx> oh i know how to do it now thanks to micges
[01:49:44] <SWPadnos> then it will be
[01:49:51] <SWPadnos> ah, excellent
[01:50:00] <SWPadnos> you have no choice, I think
[01:50:19] <pcncx> cncmachineguy dude I'm as cheap as ripple and even I bought a parallel port card
[01:50:23] <SWPadnos> well, maybe you do. I think there may be 12 output pins on a parport
[01:50:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: !!!!!!!!!
[01:50:42] <SWPadnos> hi Jymmm
[01:50:50] <cncmachineguy> pcncx - LMAO
[01:50:53] <SWPadnos> better hurry, I'm leaving early Wednesday morning :)
[01:51:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You keep running off wen I show up.... you trying to tell me sumtin?
[01:51:07] <pcncx> cncmachineguy the Rosewill is nice
[01:51:10] <SWPadnos> hmmmmm
[01:51:33] <cncmachineguy> so if i used a pluto, i would be golden?
[01:52:00] <pcncx> cncmachineguy a Rosewill RC304 is like $15
[01:52:12] <qq-> * qq- resume one para port card for up to 5 axis ..
[01:52:14] <SWPadnos> cncmachineguy, pluto is not a good choice
[01:52:22] <cncmachineguy> maybe thats the ticket, pci i suppose?
[01:52:36] <pcncx> cncmachineguy yes with 2 ports
[01:52:41] <SWPadnos> the hardware is not well designed, and the driver author doesn't particularly want to encourage its use
[01:53:10] <cncmachineguy> i really just want his driver
[01:53:35] <cncmachineguy> i only have 1 pci slot, kinda wanted to save it for don't know what
[01:53:43] <pcncx> oh
[01:53:52] <pcncx> can't PCI slots take risers?
[01:53:59] <cncmachineguy> but maybe i just use it
[01:54:17] <cncmachineguy> yes, could go that route
[01:54:39] <cncmachineguy> and "rise" to the occasion
[01:54:40] <pcncx> like all PCI slots are sort of the same just physically different
[01:56:21] <cncmachineguy> yup, the same but different! lol.
[01:56:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Whats goin on?
[01:56:39] <pcncx> well they're all mirrors of each other the connectors
[01:56:56] <pcncx> they're like clones!
[01:57:07] <cncmachineguy> looked up your card, 304, seems like the best solution i guess
[01:57:19] <cncmachineguy> can i run 3 ports?
[01:57:21] <pcncx> the Rosewill?
[01:57:22] <pcncx> yes
[01:57:29] <SWPadnos> um. PCI slots have two different voltages, the ones with a small connector on only one side will only accept cards of one of those voltages (3.3V or 5V)
[01:57:32] <pcncx> you have all 3 the onboard then the add ons
[01:57:37] <SWPadnos> don't turn the card around to make it fit
[01:57:53] <pcncx> when you plug it in issue this command dmesg | grep parport
[01:57:57] <pcncx> you'll see them all
[01:58:00] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, not much, just some design work, preparing for the next trip, you know :)
[01:58:16] <cncmachineguy> does emc support 3?
[01:58:20] <pcncx> yup
[01:58:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: LOL, you need a gopher?
[01:58:34] <pcncx> you can use all 3 at the same time
[01:58:40] <cncmachineguy> now i'm getting excited!!
[01:58:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:59:23] <cncmachineguy> that should give me real I/O to work with
[01:59:45] <pcncx> the mesa cards seem to be the stuff everyone loves
[01:59:55] <pcncx> the mega IO types
[01:59:59] <cncmachineguy> $$$$$
[02:00:02] <cncmachineguy> ???
[02:00:04] <pcncx> yes it is
[02:00:14] <pcncx> well what is a mesa about $130 ?
[02:00:19] <cncmachineguy> 495 kinda blows the budget
[02:00:41] <pcncx> well hey Rosewill $15
[02:00:50] <cncmachineguy> :):):)
[02:01:03] <pcncx> I did it because i didn't completely trust my port buffer
[02:01:12] <pcncx> but it seems to work to me
[02:01:13] <cncmachineguy> Still like the idea of talking to a smart card hanging on the para
[02:01:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FdFtL8d6eE&NR=1
[02:01:35] <pcncx> the rosewill pushes like 24 ma
[02:02:12] <cncmachineguy> ok, got to go order some
[02:02:53] <cncmachineguy> this should elimate the need for any interface card at all in my system
[02:03:17] <cncmachineguy> i might be able to let emc handle all my limits!
[02:03:30] <pcncx> you can configure a port as input
[02:03:37] <pcncx> and have the data bus input
[02:04:02] <pcncx> that gives you 13 inputs on one port?
[02:04:04] <cncmachineguy> so 12 motor signals, 11 limits in
[02:04:18] <cncmachineguy> drive enable out
[02:04:46] <cncmachineguy> seems like for $15, PROBLEM IS SOLVED
[02:04:48] <pcncx> well between the 3 ports all configured out you still have 15 inputs
[02:05:30] <cncmachineguy> THANKS FOR THE HELP, GOING TO ORDER CARDS
[02:05:35] <cncmachineguy> sry
[02:05:40] <pcncx> you just need one
[02:05:40] <cncmachineguy> caps lock
[02:05:40] <qq-> pcncx, use this one ? > http://www.rosewill.com/products/478/productDetail.htm
[02:06:02] <pcncx> qq- is that the RC304?
[02:06:08] <cncmachineguy> putting together 2 machines
[02:06:22] <cncmachineguy> so i need 2
[02:06:27] <pcncx> cncmachineguy there is no cheaper solution that is for sure
[02:06:29] <qq-> pcncx, yes, it seems
[02:06:42] <cncmachineguy> i agree
[02:06:49] <pcncx> qq- yeah teh RC304 rox
[02:06:56] <cncmachineguy> and it keeps ALL control with emc :)
[02:07:03] <pcncx> it is simple
[02:07:12] <cncmachineguy> THANK YOU!!!
[02:07:12] <qq-> pcncx, ths
[02:07:41] <pcncx> someone in here bought a few different kinds said that one looked the best to them so I went with it too
[02:07:52] <pcncx> and it looks good to me
[02:08:35] <cncmachineguy> looks like i better verify pci slot is 5V in my target system
[02:08:38] <pcncx> it is one of those nice dark green matte finish PCBs you know?
[02:08:56] <pcncx> as opposed to those pale green shiny boards that look all sorts of cheap
[02:09:54] <pcncx> mine looks to not use the last 5 sets of connectors
[02:09:57] <pcncx> it is a short card
[02:10:18] <pcncx> if that helps any
[02:11:06] <pcncx> and it is a snazzy looking board
[02:12:40] <pcncx> though in my machine i had an issue with an overhang on the front of it so it only fit into some slots
[02:40:14] <qq-> how to use image-to-gcode.py to convert an image to G Code ? 'image-to-gcode.py name.png'
[02:43:42] <pcncx> qq- when i used it I remember making the image like 1 bit?
[02:44:14] <pcncx> maybe you don't have to but I sort of remember the format being important
[02:44:56] <qq-> format ? as in .png ?
[02:45:44] <pcncx> well within png there are different oh how can I put it?
[02:46:10] <pcncx> open the file in the gimp and under the image menu I believe it is it lets you change the file type
[02:46:22] <qq-> which format we needs .fig or what ?
[02:46:28] <pcncx> like if it say has an aphpa channel or is transparant
[02:46:45] <pcncx> or is 256 bit or 1 bit
[02:47:02] <qq-> pcncx, i see , thanks
[02:47:13] <pcncx> I sort of remember haivng to do a conversion on the image to get it to work
[02:47:39] <pcncx> but once it works it is really cool
[02:47:50] <qq-> i hope .. ;)
[02:48:04] <pcncx> no it is it is worth screwing around with
[02:50:03] <pcncx> cradek would know how to use it he wrote it
[02:51:15] <qq-> sure , have to find doc which explain image format type
[02:51:59] <pcncx> I'm pretty sure it was 1 bit it worked with like black and white
[02:52:17] <pcncx> as in cut or don't cut
[02:52:37] <pcncx> but you could set the depth
[02:53:02] <pcncx> then open it in axis and see it
[02:53:53] <pcncx> qq- if i can figure it out it can't be that hard to do
[02:53:59] <qq-> pcncx, not a hurry here, just curious about format
[02:54:02] <pcncx> and i did manage to figure it out
[02:54:28] <pcncx> I'm pretty sure I had to convert the image to 1 bit
[02:54:37] <pcncx> as in straight black and white
[02:54:55] <pcncx> though maybe it can do gray scale as well?
[02:55:00] <pcncx> I don't know
[02:55:38] <qq-> pcncx, i'll don't go in deeper on that , for now
[02:55:41] <pcncx> open up the script it might have hints in comments
[02:55:54] <pcncx> python scripts are human readable
[02:56:03] <pcncx> sort of
[02:57:26] <qq-> ah > im = Image.open("bigchris.gif")
[02:57:40] <qq-> seems be .gif
[02:58:48] <pcncx> maybe it was a 1 bit gif?
[02:59:01] <pcncx> in any event i remember conversion being an issue
[03:02:42] <n2diy> Who makes the rc-308 board?
[03:03:00] <pcncx> rosewill makes the 304
[03:03:28] <n2diy> ok, that's what I meant, thanks.
[03:03:55] <pcncx> sure NP
[03:41:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: See, you did it again!!!
[04:10:12] <n2diy> I'm exploring making my own PCBs, from schematic capture, to gerber file generation I have covered with gEDA, now I need a CAM program to talk to EMC2 correct? Recomendations?
[04:11:13] <pcncx> I never could get geda to work
[04:11:34] <juri_> i got mucs pcb to work, ages ago.
[04:11:48] <pcncx> it'd always crash on me
[04:12:14] <pcncx> plus even when it wasn't crashing I still didn't care for the interface
[04:12:26] <pcncx> eagle kicks its ass
[04:29:19] <n2diy> pcncx: you didn't ring the bell, so I wondered away. Ok, so does Eagle export g-code or whatever to emc, or do you need a CAM to do it?
[04:29:45] <pcncx> I don't mill boards
[04:29:53] <pcncx> I don't think it is a very good idea
[04:30:06] <pcncx> I'm all about the acid here
[04:30:58] <n2diy> pcncx: roger that, I'm not going to, just want to do a proof of concept on it.
[04:31:35] <pcncx> if it was the intelligent thing to do I'd think that industry would do it over all the troubles they go through to etch themselves
[04:31:51] <pcncx> and they do go through a ton of troubles etching
[04:32:14] <pcncx> so no I've never bothered even looking into it
[04:34:46] <n2diy> pcncx: understood, that's one reason I never bothered developing photographs, anyway, got to run, 73
[04:48:00] <Connor_CNC> Question, How do you take into account the size of your endmill when running a gcode file? Do you do it in the CAD, the CAM, or EMC ?
[04:48:34] <skinnypup> see g40 g41 and g42
[04:49:01] <skinnypup> sheetcam creates a radius compensated path for inside and outside
[04:49:29] <Connor_CNC> I'm using LazyCAM at the moment.. only one I've found that I can stand to use..
[04:49:43] <skinnypup> never used it sry
[04:59:55] <Connor_CNC> is there a way to default my machine to G20 with Inches specified, even though It's a mm machine? I hate having to modify the gcode everytime.
[05:00:49] <pcncx> can't you calculate your lead pitch in inches?
[05:01:25] <Connor_CNC> yea. that's all good.. Everytime I open up a new file though.. (was created using inches) the machine defaults to mm
[05:01:30] <Connor_CNC> so, everything is tiny.
[05:02:04] <pcncx> run stepconf
[05:06:27] <Connor> machine crashed..
[05:06:40] <Connor> I would rather not have to run stepconf again.. I've made other mods that it'll nuke.
[05:15:38] <pcncx> copy your config then run it
[05:15:55] <pcncx> then diff -y the files
[05:43:46] <pcncx> ha ha I am running my motor now
[08:12:40] <mrsunshine> gaah why isnt there any bare bone motherboards anymore :/
[08:12:53] <mrsunshine> without soundcard, graphic card etc that isnt realy needed in some cases :/
[13:29:04] <elmo40> mrsunshine: there are. need to ask Asus directly. I don't think the 'general consumer' knows what bare bones means... they want everything in one package.
[14:04:31] <SWPadnos> heh http://xkcd.com/806/
[14:10:14] <JT-Work> LOL
[14:23:25] <elmo40> Wha-DAMMIT. ;)
[14:28:43] <dallur> now that's a good dream
[14:32:23] <elmo40> indeed
[14:33:18] <elmo40> but if you call a place, ask for level 2 tech support (due to an ongoing/recurring issue...blah blah) and you should be able to bypass the 'reboot your system' guy ;)
[14:44:10] <SWPadnos> but what if 2 is lower than 1?
[14:44:23] <SWPadnos> you know, like "first rate" and "second rate"
[15:10:29] <Tired_2> does anyone here know if the installer for EMC2 (ubuntu 10.04) has the ability to install on a computer that already has windows on it? In other words, does it let you resize the partition and set up GRUB. My friend wants to do the install on his own, but he just put windows on the computer and wants to dual boot. Do I tell him to start over? or Should the disc handle it?
[15:12:01] <SadMan> it's a normal ubuntu installation
[15:12:32] <Tired_2> thanks
[15:13:26] <SadMan> i missed the resize part, i doubt it'll shrink ntfs partition if that's what you mean
[15:13:46] <Tired_2> i feel like I remember ubuntu being able to do that
[15:13:56] <Tired_2> but i might be confusing it w/ that strange "on a file on your drive" install thing
[15:15:03] <SadMan> i usually install debian so i don't know ubuntu install, i only installed emc2 few days ago and it looked like a stock ubuntu installation
[15:17:34] <Tired_2> "If using Windows XP (or other older Windows OS), you can use the GParted partition manager to shrink the Windows partition and thereby leave free space on the hard drive for the Ubuntu partition. "
[15:18:49] <SadMan> i'd backup the stuff on that ntfs ;-)
[15:26:46] <mrsunshine> elmo40, know of any models of their that is barebone? :)
[15:31:00] <elmo40> try this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131242R
[15:31:47] <elmo40> no audio. minimal onboard video. might have a parallel pin somewhere :P
[15:32:26] <mrsunshine> "might have" :P
[15:34:13] <elmo40> I can't see
[15:35:36] <Tired_2> SadMan, its backed up
[15:35:42] <SWPadnos> I don't see a parallel port, but the PCI slots allow for a lot of expansion ...
[15:35:46] <Tired_2> well, no need to back up, its just a windows install, which only equates to time
[15:35:48] <Tired_2> no data
[15:35:53] <Tired_2> but, GParted will resize
[15:35:59] <Tired_2> ntfs that is
[15:36:11] <SWPadnos> there are some SuperMicro boards that have onboard Matrox G200 (!) chips, I bet with separate memory
[15:36:13] <mrsunshine> would be neat with mobo with 2 parports by default + extension parports
[15:36:21] <mrsunshine> to be able to input/output as much stuff as posible
[15:36:29] <mrsunshine> or a pci slot for my parport card :P
[15:36:30] <SWPadnos> good luck with that. it's hard enough to find a single parallel port
[15:36:42] <mrsunshine> SWPadnos, mm =)
[15:37:18] <cradek> I have never in 20 years seen a pc motherboard with two parallel ports built in
[15:37:30] <mrsunshine> btw, is it posible to run emc without graphical interface (X) ?
[15:37:37] <cradek> even when parallel was king (used in place of scsi for all sorts of peripherals)
[15:37:38] <mrsunshine> as its X etc that slows down computers like hell
[15:37:44] <SWPadnos> yeah, me either (and it's been almost 30 years :) )
[15:38:17] <cradek> mrsunshine: anything is possible
[15:38:43] <SWPadnos> mrsunshine, there are several options, in various staes of support
[15:38:55] <SWPadnos> keystick and emcrsh come to mind
[15:39:00] <cradek> you could almost run emc with just halui
[15:39:18] <cradek> (I think you can do everything but load a program)
[15:39:19] <SWPadnos> yep, other than file selection (and maybe other stuff)
[15:39:27] <cradek> typing mdi commands becomes difficult
[15:39:45] <SWPadnos> we need a HAL string type ;)
[15:39:48] <cradek> I guess there's a reason for user interfaces: interfacing with the user
[15:40:47] <cradek> but I question the basic premise. EMC runs fine with X since the motion-generating parts run in realtime.
[15:40:59] <mrsunshine> well iwant something like that dos cnc interface some mills use ive seen =)
[15:41:08] <mrsunshine> with basic inputs, homing etc
[15:41:42] <SWPadnos> well, since hardware drivers can cause RT burps, and user programs use hardware drivers (indirectly), and X uses hardware somewhat more directly, it seems there can be an effect
[15:42:14] <SWPadnos> which is why we tell people to exercise their computers while the test is running. if there were no effect, that advice wouldn't be needed
[15:42:22] <Tired_2> btw, there are plenty of pci cards out there w/ 2x LPT ports
[15:42:25] <Tired_2> about $20
[15:42:42] <elmo40> can't just use an LCD screen with input capabilities? and have it display basic things like the current line of code and next one coming, location? another LCD output for speed and feed?
[15:43:07] <Tired_2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flajZMff28U
[15:43:18] <Tired_2> elmo40 ^
[15:43:25] <SWPadnos> there is emclcd, but that doesn't solve the somewhat more difficult problem of actually typing in or otherwise selecting a file to load
[15:43:48] <elmo40> ya. arduino comes to mind ;)
[15:43:51] <Tired_2> why do you want to go back in time though?
[15:43:55] <Tired_2> x is good
[15:43:59] <Tired_2> use it :P
[15:44:06] <Tired_2> vnc in if you need to
[15:44:34] <Tired_2> I just dont get the point when you can find lcd monitors cheap now
[15:44:35] <elmo40> does it reduce the latency? I have 3.8M nS latency on my system
[15:44:40] <Tired_2> shouldnt
[15:44:43] <Tired_2> test it both ways
[15:44:53] <Tired_2> run the test script (forgot the name)
[15:44:54] <cradek> SWPadnos: yes, some hardware has problems, but the premise "X slows down machines like hell so it's better to not use X" is flawed.
[15:45:02] <Tired_2> and then run the test again with X running
[15:45:18] <Tired_2> just avoid the nvidia card driver thing
[15:45:27] <Tired_2> dont know much about it, but its documented on the emc2 site
[15:45:43] <cradek> there are probably thousands of machines running EMC fine using X GUIs
[15:45:49] <SWPadnos> cradek, yes, agreed. if you assume that "slow down" means "make respond to the user slower", vs "make respond to interrupts slower" (which is probably a good assumption)
[15:45:58] <SWPadnos> I'd say 99.9% are :)
[15:56:59] <Jymmm> I have no idea what you are (\___/)
[15:57:00] <Jymmm> talking about, but here's a (='.'=)
[15:57:00] <Jymmm> pancake eating bunny!!! (")_(")
[15:58:01] <skunkworks> Tired_2: (don't know if this was answered.. ) but - the ubuntu livecd will resize the windows partition and install side by side. - I have done this on an xp and windows 7 machine.
[16:09:23] <skunkworks> isn't keystick? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gui_keystick.html#KEYSTICK
[16:16:53] <Jymmm> skunkworks: isn't keystick what?
[16:20:28] <skunkworks> text
[16:21:06] <skunkworks> I suppose you need some form of x to make it work?
[16:21:06] <Jymmm> It's text, someone just windowed it I suspect to get a scrncap
[16:21:18] <Jymmm> No, pure terminal =)
[16:21:34] <SWPadnos> it is a console program, which could be run over ssh and locally without X
[16:21:38] <Jymmm> you dont have to even have x installed
[16:22:57] <Jymmm> But SWPadnos suggestion of dual does run kinda funkish.
[16:23:11] <Jymmm> or it did the last time I tried =)
[16:25:13] <SWPadnos> ?
[16:25:26] <SWPadnos> dual what?
[16:25:45] <Jymmm> dual keysticks running. one local, one remote.
[16:26:03] <SWPadnos> oh, those were options, not a suggestion for simultaneous use :)
[16:26:28] <Jymmm> No, I've down that is what I'm saying. and it runs funkish.
[16:26:35] <Jymmm> a/down/done/
[16:26:47] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:26:58] <Jymmm> It's an issue with keystick itself and console refresh.
[16:27:17] <SWPadnos> and possibly with NML sequence numbers
[16:27:45] <SWPadnos> anyway, now that you're here, I'm headed out :)
[16:27:52] <SWPadnos> (you always do that!)
[16:28:10] <cradek> I used keystick in the emc1 days and it worked ok then
[16:28:14] <Jymmm> No idea. I tried it for a little bit, thought it might have been the ssh overheard, then tried xfwd too. same results.
[16:28:23] <cradek> it was never updated to support ABC axes, and certainly never since for anything else, either
[16:28:35] <Jymmm> or was that xopen *shrug*
[16:29:04] <Jymmm> I liked the fact that keystick removed all the x overhead
[16:29:42] <Jymmm> I didn't have to deal with what video card I had in the machine.
[16:30:15] <Jymmm> but still had local control. and remote GUI for the fancier stuff
[20:50:34] <JT-Hardinge> how many floppies must be sacrificed before you change the drive? took 3 for me :/
[21:10:10] <kb5uej> kb5uej is now known as craigw76_
[21:11:22] <craigw76_> craigw76_ is now known as techcaw
[21:17:56] <techcaw> techcaw is now known as kb5uej
[22:39:58] <JT-Hardinge> mighty quiet around here tonight
[23:16:15] <Valen> its 10:15 AM here ;-P