#emc | Logs for 2010-10-20

[00:00:17] <andypugh> Perhaps you have a phase down on the motor?
[00:00:48] <andypugh> (should be easy to test with a multimeter with the motor disconnected at the VFD)
[00:01:07] <Paragon39> I do have an meter...
[00:01:15] <JT-Hardinge> yea, single phasing will draw a lot of current
[00:02:24] <Paragon39> At what point should I test? At the 240v single ph in or on one of the three phase outputs to the motor?
[00:03:06] <andypugh> I would disconnect all three motor leads at the VFD and check the resistance between all three possible pairs
[00:03:35] <mikeggg> also check resistance between ground and the three leads
[00:03:36] <andypugh> Then re-connect and check the AC voltage at all three possible pairs with the spindle running
[00:03:38] <Paragon39> Oh check the motor pairs for there resistance?
[00:03:43] <andypugh> Aye
[00:04:12] <andypugh> I suspect a broken wire or loose terminal somewhere, so you actually have a 2-phase motor
[00:04:40] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:07:43] <Paragon39> I must admit the motor does seem weak. How does your motor run andypugh? Does it have a lot of torque etc?
[00:09:20] <Paragon39> BTW would the motor even start with only two phases enabled?
[00:09:54] <JT-Hardinge> with a shove it will
[00:10:05] <Paragon39> :-)
[00:11:35] <JT-Hardinge> I used to start my rotary phase converter with a lawn mower rope... give it a pull and plug it in and hope for the best
[00:12:03] <Paragon39> The motor start ok when I use the larger pully on the underdrive but the spindle is slow. Its when I move the belt to the middle or smaller pulley the issue arises. Also if I take a medium cut the VFD goes into overload shutdown.
[00:13:59] <Paragon39> JT-Hardinge: I also have a rotary 3 phase converter that I built. It uses a shunt cap to supply the 3rd phase temporarily the a relay kicks in once the rotary 3ph motor starts. The motor then supplies my mill with 3ph supply.
[00:16:39] <Paragon39> But even with the rotary setup the mill motor take a while too come up to speed. Having never experienced 3ph motors prior to this I am not too sure what to expect! For example my single phase granville senior lathe comes up to speed almost instantly!
[00:18:29] <andypugh> A 3-phase motor should be quicker than a single phase
[00:19:42] <JT-Hardinge> I've done the same thing and have a potential relay on the start caps now... I've also found to get a good voltage balance one pair needs more caps than the other
[00:20:06] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oTJNEVpvYY isn't a very good example, but wait till 0:55
[00:20:12] <andypugh> That's my lathe
[00:20:35] <andypugh> But as the VFD and motor are trying to be a servo....
[00:20:38] <JT-Hardinge> do you have proper sized wires that are not too long ie no voltage drop at the motor
[00:21:10] <Paragon39> Tha certainly does'nt appear to be the case with my current setup. The mill take at least 5 seconds to come up to speed, longer if cold. In fact it trips out when the mill has been left for a while. The lathe is also slow at reaching speed.
[00:21:43] <JT-Hardinge> Andy, does that sound like low voltage to you?
[00:21:53] <andypugh> My lathe would be faster, but I programmed a 1 sec ramp into the VFD.
[00:22:07] <andypugh> Do the lights dim?
[00:22:23] <Paragon39> Cabling is 13amp 1-1.5 meters in length.
[00:22:26] <andypugh> Is the garage run from a bit of bell-wire buried in the flower beds?
[00:22:35] <JT-Hardinge> LOL
[00:23:36] <JT-Hardinge> Paragon39: check your mains when you start up one to make sure you don't have a voltage drop
[00:23:50] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge heads inside to strap on the feed bag
[00:23:52] <Paragon39> andypugh: Yes the lights do dim sometimes. I have a 13amp cable run about 40-50ft to the workshop.
[00:24:09] <andypugh> Define "13A"
[00:25:03] <Paragon39> andypugh: ? 240v 13Amp about 3.2Kw
[00:25:26] <JT-Hardinge> what size is the wire?
[00:25:28] <andypugh> I mean that "13A" is not a cable size
[00:25:48] <JT-Hardinge> this is a good one http://www.gorhamschaffler.com/wire_size_calculator.html
[00:25:58] <Paragon39> Cable is rated for at least 13amp it may be 16Amp raiting.
[00:26:01] <andypugh> Though http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Charts/VoltageDrop.html?cable=Twin_Earth&application=100&max_perct_volt_drop=5&ambient_temp=30&no_circuits=1&circuit_layout=bunched&power=3&power_units=1000&voltage=230&length=15&submit=Calculate+Min+Cable+Size suggests that 1.5mm2 should be OK
[00:26:25] <Paragon39> looking at links now...
[00:27:49] <JT-Hardinge> http://www.bugclub.org/beginners/math/WattsVoltsAmps.html
[00:27:57] <andypugh> Which is not to say that there might not be a bad connection somewhere. The good news is that if there is it will make itself known and the fire brigade will be able to tell you where it was.
[00:28:10] <JT-Hardinge> LOL
[00:28:39] <JT-Hardinge> so check your voltage at each point Paragon39
[00:28:46] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge really goes inside now
[00:28:52] <JT-Hardinge> goodnight guys
[00:29:14] <Paragon39> JT-Hardinge: Night.. And thanks for your help :-)
[00:30:14] <Paragon39> andypugh: The cable that I am using is 1.5mm twin and earth.
[00:30:22] <SWPadnos> Paragon39, do you have an inverter, a static phase converter, a rotary phase converter, or a VFD on that motor?
[00:30:45] <SWPadnos> or some combination
[00:31:23] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: I have both a rotary and a VFD. I only use one or the other. The VFD is connected to the Boxford Lathe and the rotary is connected to a mill.
[00:31:50] <andypugh> 1.5mm2 is big enough (though I have 4mm2 SWA to my garage). Twin-and-earth is probably not to regs if it is routed outside (and definitely not if it is buried)
[00:32:04] <SWPadnos> so on the lathe (that you're asking about), you have a 1HP motor and a 1HP VFD?
[00:32:20] <SWPadnos> or 0.75kW, as they'd call it in your neck of the woods
[00:33:57] <Paragon39> andypugh: the twin and earth is a temp solution untill a freind gets off is backside to drop around the armoured cable he promissed me. The twin and earth is run down the length of my fence about 2.5mtrs from the ground.
[00:34:55] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: as far as I know the VFD is 1HP unfortunatly I can't remember the model off hand but it was made by IHO.
[00:35:09] <Paragon39> It came with the lathe.
[00:35:45] <SWPadnos> many VFDs don't work at all on single phase, and many of those that do are derated by 1/3
[00:35:51] <andypugh> You might want to consider a 3-core SWA, then you have the option of an RCD-protected circuit for the sockets, and an unprotected one for the machine tools. VFD's (especially with filters) tend to trip RCDs at switch-on. But shed/garage sockets are meant to be RCD protected.
[00:36:15] <SWPadnos> you can run more than one motor on a single rotary converter, in fact, the more motors you have running, the better
[00:36:31] <andypugh> Is the motor a 440V or 220V one?
[00:36:38] <SWPadnos> rotary converters are rated for the HP they can start, they don't actually provide power to the "load" motors
[00:36:56] <andypugh> It might be that the motor has been wired star when it should be delta
[00:37:41] <Paragon39> andypugh: The cable terminates into an rcd unit but it does not tend to trip it well not as yet anyways ;-)
[00:39:30] <andypugh> I think the regs say that SWA doesn't need RCD protection as the steel armour guarantees a short-to-earth when you put a pickaxe through it. However the twin-and-earth ought to have one upstream of it. But the chances of anyone noticing are negligible.
[00:39:40] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: I was thinking of hooking the rotary to the lathe but have not got around to it yet. But even the rotary inverter I made seems to take an age to start the mill motor.
[00:39:50] <Paragon39> Oh it's 240v
[00:40:05] <andypugh> The motor is set to s40v 3-phase?
[00:40:12] <andypugh> (240)
[00:40:32] <Paragon39> andypugh: Yes it is.
[00:40:35] <andypugh> Most 3-phase motors are dual-voltage depending on the internal jumpers
[00:41:21] <andypugh> If it has ever run on mains 3-phase then it would have been 440V then. It is possible that when the inverter/vfd was fitted that the jumpers were not swapped.
[00:41:24] <Paragon39> andypugh: Thats correct. I have check the backplate wiring diagrams and the connections seem to be in order.
[00:41:37] <andypugh> Ah. There goes that idea then.
[00:42:05] <SWPadnos> check the VFD, make sure it's supposed to operate on a single phase
[00:42:21] <SWPadnos> also check the current limit settings in the VFD
[00:42:33] <Paragon39> I can remember setting the links to correct possitions way back when I installed it last year.
[00:43:44] <Paragon39> I just searching the web in the hope that I can find a manual for it...
[00:43:48] <andypugh> Aye, my guess would be that the VFD needs its parameters changing
[00:44:56] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMO-INVERTERS-1-3-PHASE-CONVERTER-INVERTOR-240V-/150507678157
[00:44:58] <andypugh> ?
[00:45:58] <Paragon39> andypugh: You may well be right. I should say that the VFD was not installed but rather supplied by the company I purchased the lathe from. The lathe was originally set for 440v. I used the inverter straight out of the box with factory defaults. The only non default that I changed was remote on / off and emergency stop.
[00:46:37] <andypugh> It might well have been provided with consrvative settings
[00:46:38] <Paragon39> andypugh: That looks like the one :-)
[00:47:59] <andypugh> Manual ought to be here, if you don't have it: http://www.imopc.com/
[00:51:14] <Paragon39> Dam I think the VFD I was supplied is underated. It looks like I have the .55kW .75HP version!
[00:51:33] <andypugh> It should still work a lot better than you describe
[00:52:25] <Paragon39> andypugh: That's a relief!
[00:56:27] <mikeggg> oh, you have a VFD? I thought you have a static phase converter
[00:56:39] <mikeggg> my VFD takes a minute to spool up as well
[00:58:27] <Paragon39> mikeggg: Yes it's an IMO idrive.
[00:59:13] <mikeggg> I think you are limited in acceleration because induction motors are asynchronus
[00:59:58] <mikeggg> (disclaimer: I know shit about shit.)
[01:00:49] <Paragon39> mikeggg:Thats shit loads more than I know LOL ;-)
[01:01:59] <andypugh> My lathe runs direct-drive from the VFD and takes decent cuts.
[01:02:17] <andypugh> Your Boxford has a geared head (I think) so should take much bigger ones.
[01:02:31] <Paragon39> Just going through http://www.powercapacitors.co.uk/Power_Capacitors_Site/IMO_Inverter_Downloads_files/EDX%20Manual.pdf
[01:02:42] <Paragon39> andypugh: Sorry Andy?
[01:03:26] <andypugh> Motor power is low at low speeds, but with a geared headstock you can have low spindle speed with high motor speed
[01:03:45] <andypugh> Assuming you are even using your VFD in variable speed mode.
[01:04:31] <Paragon39> Oh do you mean backgear?
[01:05:03] <andypugh> Yes, and no
[01:05:20] <Paragon39> Yes the lathe has backgear for very slow high torque.
[01:05:49] <andypugh> And also V-belt pulleys?
[01:05:50] <Paragon39> Lathe pics (not mine but almost identical) it show the underdrive and same model motor. http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxfordaudphotoessay/
[01:06:34] <Paragon39> No it uses a lapped belt (not sure of there correct name)
[01:07:09] <andypugh> That page shows V-belts
[01:07:47] <Paragon39> andypugh: appologies it does indeed have v-belts which then feed into the laped belt.
[01:08:17] <andypugh> If you mean http://www.brammer.co.uk/uk/link_belts_brammer.aspx then that is a V-belt too.
[01:08:17] <Paragon39> andypugh: Are you stateside?
[01:08:29] <andypugh> No, I am in Basildon.
[01:09:11] <Paragon39> Oh of course you are sorry buddy. We are both up late!
[01:09:45] <Paragon39> Thanks for that link! I was wondering where I would get one of those belts.
[01:09:49] <andypugh> Argh! Not again! That keeps happening
[01:10:09] <Paragon39> Yep... me too!
[01:10:48] <andypugh> Even easier: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&binCount=14&Ne=4294957561&Ntt=belt&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3Auk%2CsearchDiscon_uk%3AN%29&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&N=4294954812&Nty=1
[01:11:38] <andypugh> or http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Nutlink_Vee_Belts-1036-c
[01:11:54] <Paragon39> Arhh there is an A10 code for torque boost (0-30%)
[01:12:23] <andypugh> It is more likely to be current limit, V/f ratio and ramp time.
[01:12:37] <Paragon39> OMG look at the price of them!
[01:13:29] <andypugh> It's expensive stuff.
[01:14:06] <andypugh> It looks like your VFD is a sensorless vector drive. That should have lots of low-down torque.
[01:15:39] <andypugh> What's the drive part code? Should be EDX-075-2-1. If not, it is probably the wrong one.
[01:16:02] <Paragon39> andypugh: Would those setting possibly effect the issue when it goes into OL1 (overload)
[01:16:20] <andypugh> Yes, it will trip OL when it exceeds the programmed max current
[01:17:47] <Paragon39> Right... I bet it is set to it's minimum. I mean the inverter runs really cool never brakes a sweat. Although the fan is on but this appears to be on all of the time when running.
[01:20:29] <Paragon39> b55: Output current detection value > b58 When set value is 015
[01:20:31] <Paragon39> b60: Output current detection value > b58 When set value is 015
[01:20:33] <Paragon39> b58: Set value (000-100%) of motor rated current b09
[01:20:34] <Paragon39> b59: Set value (00.0-25.5s)
[01:21:05] <Paragon39> So it looks like b09 set the motor current.
[01:23:27] <Paragon39> andypugh: Your correct OL1 is the overload protection for the motor not the VFD!
[01:24:33] <andypugh> MAx it out, and reduce b59
[01:25:11] <Paragon39> Set A11 = 000 and b09 to rated motor current (Amps) to give correct thermal overload protection.
[01:26:39] <andypugh> What is the current current value currently?
[01:27:54] <Paragon39> b59 for the trip time from 00-25.5 sec ... Got it! The settings will be default but not sure what the default setting are. I will check tomorrow!
[01:29:13] <andypugh> Ah, in that case leave b59 reasonably high. There is probably a speed ramp rate parameter too, somewhere.
[01:31:21] <Paragon39> Will do! I will let you know of the outcome tomorrow! BTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oTJNEVpvYY = Awsome! Thanks for your help Andy! :-)
[01:32:10] <Paragon39> Got to hit the sack! CU!
[01:38:34] <MarkusBec_> MarkusBec_ is now known as MarkusBec
[01:38:45] <pcw_home_> pcw_home_ is now known as pcw_home
[04:54:30] <elmo40> a few years ago our shop picked up 2 of these vice&plate units. http://www.lang-technik.de/images/qp_04.jpg
[04:54:44] <elmo40> now we have dozens! They are amazing.
[04:56:19] <elmo40> we were able to reduce setup times on virtually every part we make. reduce raw material sizes due to a smaller vice 'foot print' to hold it in the machine. increased functionality on the horizontal machines by having the vice rotate 90deg on the plate to do another operation without removing the part from the vice.
[04:56:55] <Connor> Can someone help me with some math?
[04:57:26] <Connor> I'm trying to make a template for a standard router. I need to make a circle with a 4.6" diameter.
[04:57:35] <Connor> My CNC uses a 1/4 bit.
[04:57:57] <Connor> The standard router, uses 1/8 bit, with a .460" template bushing.
[04:58:08] <Connor> How much larger do I need to make my template..
[04:58:20] <Connor> My Brain hurts too much for this..
[04:58:45] <skinnypup> wouldnt that have a lot to do with the router base diameter ?
[04:58:49] <elmo40> standard router is 1/8" ? that is tiny
[04:59:04] <Connor> It's a dremel with a pludge router base.
[04:59:28] <Connor> skinnypup: No. Thats why you have a template bushing. It goes In the template.. the base sits on top of it.
[05:01:03] <Connor> I cutting fan holes in my CNC case.. thus.. parts are too big to use IT to make them.. so, I though.. hey, make a template..
[05:32:35] <skinnypup> Hint: it might help you to think in radius vs diameter
[05:37:04] <Jymmm> Connor: Um, did you bother to RTFM?
[05:37:35] <Jymmm> Connor: Page 8 specifically?
[05:38:36] <pfred1> Linux cnc #1 PREEMPT Wed Oct 20 00:52:46 EDT 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
[05:38:53] <pfred1> oh that is so sexy!
[05:39:22] <Jymmm> Connor: http://mdm.boschwebservices.com/MDMCache/English%20%5BUS%5D//t10/0000000/r00523v-1.pdf
[05:39:37] <Jymmm> Damn, I didn't know that Bosch bought Dremel
[05:39:48] <pfred1> they bought rotozip too
[05:40:36] <Jymmm> heh
[05:40:41] <pfred1> dremels aren't real tools
[05:41:00] <Jymmm> pfred1: shush you, you probably own three of em!
[05:41:12] <skinnypup> do they bother to balance them any better now ?
[05:41:13] <pfred1> nah i got 2 RTX's by B&D though
[05:41:26] <Jymmm> Sorry to hear that
[05:41:35] <Jymmm> * Jymmm isn't a B&D fan
[05:41:36] <pfred1> if I really need a die grinder I grap my CP
[05:41:54] <pfred1> well at $10 a pop if i need something like that i have it
[05:42:03] <Jymmm> =)
[05:42:17] <pfred1> they're as good as any $80 dremel I've ever burnt out
[05:42:41] <fragalot> I'm quite fond of my B&D battery drill
[05:42:50] <pfred1> I even got one of them foredom flex shaft deals
[05:43:02] <fragalot> it's outlasted a blue bosh in terms of durabillity a few times now
[05:43:07] <pfred1> it came in handy once grinding a weld on a desk
[05:43:13] <fragalot> and it was bosch' BEST machine
[05:43:26] <pfred1> I donno I got a bosch jigsaw thing is sweet
[05:43:34] <pfred1> better than my porter cable
[05:43:35] <fragalot> bosch is good, don't get me wrong
[05:43:54] <fragalot> but b&d isn't shit either if you don't get one of the plasticky consumer models
[05:44:05] <pfred1> well B&D makes dewalt
[05:44:26] <pfred1> which sems to be the name in cordless drills
[05:44:32] <pfred1> seems even
[05:44:49] <pfred1> I got a B&D outlet by me so I pick up some of their junk
[05:45:10] <pfred1> when they closed out the VPX line i bought it all
[05:45:29] <fragalot> well I've used both a B&D something seomtghin (I'll look up a pic later), and a Bosch GSB36VLI w/ extended battery pack
[05:45:30] <pfred1> well everything but the USB charger and the air compressor
[05:45:48] <fragalot> the B&D actually outlasted the bosch (the bosch's chuck exploded)
[05:45:59] <pfred1> they're replacable
[05:46:04] <fragalot> yeah they are, but still
[05:46:08] <fragalot> chucks shouldn't do that
[05:46:18] <pfred1> I donno I consider chucks consumables
[05:46:32] <fragalot> pfred1: it shouldn't do that in the first month of ownership*
[05:46:39] <pfred1> oh no it shouldn't
[05:46:46] <pfred1> probably user error :)
[05:47:10] <fragalot> don't know what you could possibly do wrong putting a drill bit in and drilling a hole :/
[05:47:20] <pfred1> I got an 18V B&D hammer drill I like
[05:48:08] <pfred1> then this other whacky thing sort of like a cordless rotozip I use as a quickie die grinder
[05:48:10] <fragalot> mine's 14.4
[05:48:36] <pfred1> ah 14.4 I got a few of those they seem a bit weak anymore
[05:48:47] <fragalot> the one I have is 50Nm which just about suffices
[05:48:50] <pfred1> but the 24V packs are just too big
[05:48:51] <fragalot> mind you it's a few yeras old
[05:49:26] <pfred1> I guess for a cordless recip saw it wouldn't be bad
[05:49:46] <pfred1> but a 24V pack on a drill unless it is like an SDS is silly
[05:50:19] <pfred1> someone ought to make battery backpacks
[05:50:43] <fragalot> xD
[05:50:51] <fragalot> the 36V pack on the bosch is HUGE
[05:50:53] <fragalot> but it lasts forever
[05:50:57] <pfred1> well when you step up on the volts it is impressive
[05:51:19] <pfred1> like my 18 is night and day over my 14,4s
[05:51:37] <fragalot> yeah
[05:51:48] <fragalot> the 14.4 is just for personal use and was the best I could get at the time for it's price
[05:51:57] <pfred1> but like i said I can't deal with a 24V pack on just a regular drill
[05:52:31] <fragalot> full alu body 3 metal gears full metal chuck and 50Nm torque which is plenty for DIY needs
[05:52:37] <pfred1> one of my VPX drills is a 14.4 but its not too bad for like drilling starter holes for screws and stuff
[05:52:44] <fragalot> and 3000rpm incaase I drill smaller holes
[05:53:03] <fragalot> pfred1: oh mine drills 13mm holes in steel quite happilly
[05:53:14] <fragalot> or 30mm in oak :/
[05:53:43] <pfred1> I never had much luck using a twist drill into steel with a hand drill
[05:53:50] <pfred1> I usually end up breaking the bits if I try
[05:54:01] <pfred1> so I don't even bother
[05:54:04] <fragalot> lol
[05:54:14] <pfred1> just throw it ont othe drill press
[05:54:42] <fragalot> doesnt work that welll if you're trying to fabricate something w/o build plans that's 8x8 meters big
[05:54:50] <fragalot> and 3 high
[05:55:02] <pfred1> sure it does get a drill press with a magnetic chuck
[05:55:10] <pfred1> thats how its done
[05:55:31] <fragalot> can't quite afford one of them buggers yet
[05:55:40] <fragalot> i'd love to but... no
[05:55:49] <pfred1> look around I don't buy tools new
[05:56:09] <pfred1> I just got a 5C indexing collet for $6
[05:56:18] <pfred1> things go $300 new
[05:56:24] <fragalot> dno't quite have 300 to spare :P
[05:56:36] <pfred1> yeah but $6 is lunch money
[05:56:44] <fragalot> at the moment drilling the holes by hand works without breaking the bits
[05:56:53] <skinnypup> where do you shop at ?
[05:57:00] <pfred1> everywhere
[05:57:25] <pfred1> I do flea markets garage sales anything
[05:57:31] <pfred1> auctions
[05:57:45] <fragalot> can't find anything worth a damn here on markets
[05:57:53] <skinnypup> same around here
[05:58:01] <pfred1> pfft I'm in the middle of nowhere and i find stuff
[05:58:11] <fragalot> garage sales aren't generally held here either
[05:58:23] <fragalot> I do however scavenge businesses that stop due to retirement or whatever
[05:58:27] <pfred1> what kind of a place doesn't have garage sales?
[05:58:44] <fragalot> pfred1: belgium? We don't even have a goverment ;P
[05:58:52] <pfred1> around here it is like the local pastime
[05:59:00] <fragalot> yeah not here
[05:59:04] <fragalot> don't think I've ever seen one
[05:59:13] <pfred1> dang I'd freak out
[05:59:18] <fragalot> lol
[05:59:27] <pfred1> monitor I'm using now i got at a garage sale for $5
[05:59:40] <pfred1> its an acer al1916 flat screen
[05:59:43] <fragalot> :D
[05:59:54] <pfred1> thing is close to a 200 bill
[06:00:07] <fragalot> yeah
[06:00:39] <pfred1> I mean I pick up everything at sales
[06:00:53] <fragalot> I would too if I could find 'm
[06:00:54] <pfred1> trick is to keep an open mind and just look for bargains
[06:01:15] <pfred1> so what do you people do keep crap until the day you die?
[06:01:22] <pfred1> then what happens?
[06:01:23] <fragalot> and the flea markets here only sell broken down toys for 4 yo's or $1 cheap tools
[06:01:42] <pfred1> after someone dies then it is called an "estate sale"
[06:01:43] <skinnypup> flea markets just have junk here too
[06:01:55] <pfred1> well you got to drag through it to find the gems
[06:02:07] <fragalot> pfred1: generally the family either sells things on ebay, brings it to a skip, or donates it
[06:02:18] <pfred1> I snagged a woodwoking speed vise for $2 at a flea market not too long ago
[06:02:24] <fragalot> pfred1: here on flea markets, there are no gems
[06:02:31] <skinnypup> or if they have something they think its worth an arm+leg
[06:02:34] <pfred1> they go anywhere from $60-$90
[06:02:48] <fragalot> skinnypup: yeah
[06:02:58] <pfred1> well some people are priced to sell some are priced to make money
[06:03:13] <pfred1> you pass by the people who value their crap too much
[06:03:25] <pfred1> if they think it is worth all that then they can keep it!
[06:03:31] <skinnypup> ive gotten some good deals on craigslist and ebay
[06:03:43] <fragalot> generally if I need somthing I just borrow it from a friend that has everything (excluding a magnetic drill :P)
[06:04:28] <fragalot> ranging from big hydraulic and impact presses to plastic mold machines
[06:05:48] <pfred1> hey want to see a funny video I made?
[06:06:02] <fragalot> not really
[06:06:03] <fragalot> ;)
[06:06:04] <pfred1> has a lot of my tools in it
[06:06:12] <pfred1> oh well your loss
[06:09:44] <pfred1> well I got this RTAI kernel built up now i need to build the user space software
[06:11:01] <pfred1> it took me like 6 tries to get all the drivers I needed into this thing you need like a PHD or something
[06:11:39] <skinnypup> lol kernel building fun fun fun , what distro ?
[06:11:50] <pfred1> debian lenny
[06:12:04] <fragalot> I used to run gentoo
[06:12:06] <fragalot> kernels are easy
[06:12:06] <fragalot> :P
[06:12:10] <skinnypup> lenny user here too , and crunchbang statler
[06:12:31] <pfred1> I'm in X with an IRC client with 48 tasks
[06:12:42] <pfred1> bit better than ubuntu can do
[06:13:08] <pfred1> there to do the same thing it is like 150 tasks running
[06:13:58] <skinnypup> hear ya , i need to add rtai to my netbooting kernel
[06:14:05] <pfred1> I'm noticing some load running thie preemptive kernel though
[06:14:31] <pfred1> ah its not too bad i guess
[06:15:06] <pfred1> also I couldn't use the new disk drivers with it
[06:15:16] <pfred1> though they work on the stock kernel
[06:16:20] <pfred1> yeah this thing is running good
[06:22:49] <pfred1> I was worried what the id field was in top apparantly it means idle
[06:23:15] <pfred1> Cpu(s): 0.0%us, 0.0%sy, 0.0%ni,100.0%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
[06:23:45] <pfred1> I guess I shouldn't worry too much if my system is 100% idle should I?
[06:29:31] <fragalot> pfred1: use htop instead
[06:29:38] <fragalot> it's much nicer to use and gives more information
[06:30:02] <pfred1> fragalot I'll have to get it
[06:31:11] <skinnypup> htop is gr8 on multicore machines
[06:31:35] <pfred1> well I don't have that problem here
[06:31:49] <fragalot> it's great on single core machines too
[06:32:08] <fragalot> sorting the processes nicely, displaying all information cleanly
[06:32:09] <pfred1> oh it has little display bars
[06:32:43] <skinnypup> will also f9 kill processes without password
[06:33:57] <pfred1> this system has been taking me a while to setup but I'm pretty happy with it
[06:34:19] <pfred1> seems like it has been worth the trouble
[06:35:50] <pfred1> when you're dumpster diving for PCs you get what you get you know?
[06:36:58] <skinnypup> oh im usually given a plenty that windows has failed on
[06:37:24] <pfred1> this is a 1 GHz P3 with 512MB RAM
[06:37:40] <pfred1> so I don't have a whole lot of resources to play around with on it
[06:37:58] <pfred1> conserve is the name of the game
[06:38:23] <skinnypup> hear ya, i run my mill with an old pentium 400 &128 megs
[06:38:48] <pfred1> right now this thing is running so good that I can see that happening
[06:39:08] <fragalot> I run mine with a scavenged laptop
[06:39:24] <fragalot> display on it is broken, it doesn't have networking and the touchpad is iffy
[06:39:27] <fragalot> but ItWorks.
[06:39:28] <fragalot> :P
[06:39:28] <pfred1> I've heard an awful lot of bad things about laptops and CNC
[06:39:51] <fragalot> pfred1: my CNC machine isn't fast enough to cause issues
[06:40:31] <pfred1> I had emc2 running and i didn't care for it was just too flashy for me
[06:40:55] <fragalot> I'm not bothered with looks
[06:41:14] <fragalot> the only thing that laptop has to do for me is run the program, and with the default settings it does that just fine
[06:41:18] <pfred1> I mean it had too much going on
[06:41:22] <fragalot> so i'm happy with leaving it as-is :P
[06:41:38] <pfred1> I'm building this up from a minimal install
[06:41:53] <fragalot> I cba doing that :P
[06:42:01] <fragalot> don't really have a reason to
[06:42:09] <skinnypup> glad these new atom itx's are good with latency
[06:42:31] <pfred1> yeah I'm trying to see if i can get halfway decent latency
[06:42:55] <pfred1> I wasn't crazy about what I was getting on the emc2
[06:43:08] <pfred1> who knows maybe this will be worse?
[06:43:17] <pfred1> but at least i can say that I tried
[06:43:42] <skinnypup> i cant run axis on that machine , tkemc just fine though
[06:44:01] <pfred1> I'll be wanting to run axis
[06:44:50] <skinnypup> i use sim-axis inside and sshfs on the cnc comp
[06:46:17] <pfred1> well if things don't work out too well for me I'll have to look into doing that myself
[06:47:27] <fragalot> pfred1: if you don't use emc2 what do you use then?
[06:48:07] <pfred1> I did use emc2 well whatever the whole packaged with ubuntu thing is called but now I am building all the components
[06:48:26] <fragalot> so you're still using emc2 then :P
[06:48:29] <pfred1> on a minimal debian lenny
[06:48:32] <fragalot> emc2 is the software not the OS
[06:48:43] <pfred1> well whatever the packaged iso is called
[06:48:46] <fragalot> y'know what I don't get ?
[06:48:48] <fragalot> MACH3
[06:48:57] <pfred1> its popular
[06:49:06] <fragalot> but windows is anything but realtime
[06:49:15] <pfred1> it seems to work for people
[06:49:24] <fragalot> and it costs money
[06:49:41] <fragalot> both for the OS as for the software
[06:49:49] <fragalot> needs more resources too
[06:50:05] <skinnypup> uggh windows
[06:50:18] <pfred1> I hear the windows 7 is OK
[06:50:30] <fragalot> it is
[06:50:43] <fragalot> I'm using it on my Eee
[06:50:48] <pfred1> but microsofts time is numbered
[06:50:59] <pfred1> they won't be around forever
[06:51:03] <fragalot> it's rubbish if you want to quickly do something though
[06:51:10] <skinnypup> idk i worked for years cleaning windows machines .... never again
[06:51:13] <fragalot> on my desktop it keeps installing updates when I boot it up which takes aaages
[06:51:31] <pfred1> heh my boot is like 20 seconds
[06:51:49] <fragalot> my boot time when I ran gentoo was 12 seconds
[06:51:50] <fragalot> :3
[06:52:10] <fragalot> boot time with windows is ... a few minutes at best
[06:52:24] <pfred1> my grub menu takes 5 seconds
[06:52:29] <fragalot> on a dual 2.6Ghz >.>
[06:53:14] <fragalot> pfred1: I measured it via bootchart, so it only counts from when your kernel starts loading
[06:53:34] <skinnypup> bootchart is handy
[06:53:52] <fragalot> aye
[06:53:53] <pfred1> where do you get that from?
[06:54:01] <fragalot> portage? :P
[06:54:41] <skinnypup> apt
[06:54:42] <skinnypup> http://packages.debian.org/stable/admin/bootchart
[06:54:53] <pfred1> already aptitude installed it thanks
[06:55:10] <fragalot> pfred1: http://ompldr.org/vNW5jdg gives output like tis
[06:55:44] <pfred1> so its java?
[06:55:53] <fragalot> doubtful
[06:56:00] <pfred1> least aptitude thought i needed a lot of java for it
[06:56:02] <fragalot> if it was java it'd have to wait for the java VM to start
[06:56:27] <pfred1> maybe the front end runs in java?
[06:56:34] <fragalot> there's a front-end?
[06:56:53] <pfred1> I donno all i know is when I installed it apt threw me a load of java
[06:57:08] <fragalot> apt isan odd contraption
[06:57:12] <pfred1> Setting up bootchart-view (0.10~svn407-3) ...
[06:57:23] <fragalot> apt-cache search openoffice | wc -l gives like 700 results
[06:57:25] <pfred1> I assume that is a frint end for it
[06:57:29] <skinnypup> probably depends vs recomends
[06:57:30] <pfred1> front end even
[06:57:47] <fragalot> Hm. it is in java apparently
[06:57:54] <fragalot> to create the png
[06:58:10] <fragalot> Note that a JDK is not necessary if the renderer web
[06:58:10] <fragalot> service is used.
[06:58:25] <fragalot> eg. you don't need java, :P
[06:58:37] <pfred1> I don't need a computer
[06:58:44] <pfred1> but I find them nice to have
[06:58:47] <fragalot> hehe
[06:59:18] <skinnypup> # apt-get --no-install-recommends install foo
[06:59:23] <pfred1> when you go camping a lot of things get put into prespective
[06:59:28] <fragalot> argh don't you hate it when a radio is mistuned
[07:00:03] <pfred1> I was bad today
[07:00:07] <fragalot> * fragalot waves his arms trying to get a clear signal
[07:00:22] <fragalot> fu
[07:00:24] <pfred1> I was listening to a station and it sounded liek crap but I sort of liked the song so I bittorrented it just to hear it better
[07:00:25] <fragalot> >.<
[07:00:32] <fragalot> pfred1: haha
[07:00:46] <fragalot> this radio is bugging me. if I walk to it to tune it it plays clear
[07:00:52] <pfred1> haha
[07:00:52] <fragalot> I walk away again and it garbles
[07:00:56] <fragalot> ever so slightly
[07:00:59] <fragalot> but enough to be annoying
[07:01:00] <pfred1> get some aluminum foil
[07:01:20] <pfred1> I hate PLL tuners
[07:01:28] <pfred1> if they can't like lock the statoin in
[07:01:32] <fragalot> yeah
[07:01:44] <pfred1> they do that in and out thing
[07:01:44] <fragalot> esp. the type that uses a rubber band to turn the potmeter
[07:02:02] <pfred1> pll is usually buttons
[07:02:04] <fragalot> they always move a bit after you've finished tuning it
[07:02:08] <pfred1> being as it is digital
[07:02:09] <fragalot> this one isn't
[07:02:37] <fragalot> oh I get what you mean now
[07:02:41] <pfred1> but you can't get like half frequencies with the stuff
[07:02:42] <fragalot> my car stereo does that
[07:02:43] <fragalot> all the time
[07:02:48] <pfred1> yeah its PLL
[07:02:56] <fragalot> it's annoying
[07:03:07] <fragalot> it also randomly changse the presets
[07:03:07] <pfred1> when they work they're the best but when they don't
[07:03:28] <pfred1> somebody ought to develop the hybrid radio
[07:03:48] <fragalot> * fragalot finds a long pole to prod the radio with
[07:03:50] <pfred1> with a button on it for fiddly mode or something
[07:04:17] <fragalot> xD
[07:04:27] <fragalot> our downstairs radio has that..
[07:04:55] <pfred1> ever been anywhere you couldn't even pick up radio?
[07:05:00] <fragalot> no
[07:05:03] <pfred1> I have
[07:05:13] <fragalot> oh I can onlythink of one place
[07:05:13] <pfred1> well there were 4 stations on the AM band
[07:05:18] <pfred1> the FM band was empty
[07:05:21] <fragalot> the local shopping mall parking when you're on sublevel 4
[07:05:42] <pfred1> ad none of the 4 AM stations wre tolerable
[07:05:45] <fragalot> lol
[07:05:58] <pfred1> oh one guy was going a mile a minute in french
[07:06:08] <pfred1> and i don't speak a word of french
[07:06:14] <fragalot> I don't think anyone uses AM here
[07:06:30] <fragalot> pfred1: we get our radio stations interfered with french ones
[07:06:36] <pfred1> one station was owned by the logging company and broadcast sweedish muzak
[07:06:52] <fragalot> so you're listening to an epic song, radio mistunes by 0.001Mhz and the bastard starts talking in french
[07:07:01] <pfred1> it was the single most annoying thing I'd ever heard in my life!
[07:07:08] <fragalot> pfred1: try norwegian music
[07:07:16] <fragalot> actually.. no swedish is worse
[07:07:20] <fragalot> caramelldansen!
[07:07:21] <pfred1> maybe it was norwegian I donno it was horrid
[07:07:56] <fragalot> look upu caramelldansen
[07:07:58] <pfred1> I can't even remember what the other two were but they were no better
[07:07:59] <fragalot> -u
[07:08:24] <pfred1> all I know is we listened to that steely dan 8 track like 10 times
[07:08:32] <skinnypup> ouch
[07:08:42] <fragalot> I'm happy to report that I have nfc wht that is
[07:08:42] <fragalot> :D
[07:08:48] <pfred1> well my buddy he always tuned the radio
[07:09:00] <pfred1> but we drove someplace where ther was no radio!
[07:09:03] <fragalot> I don't think 8track ever made it to here :/ we might 've skipped that step
[07:09:07] <Jymmm> pfred1: What is 8 track?
[07:09:30] <pfred1> worst part about it was his player was broken so track 3 played backwards on one channel
[07:09:47] <fragalot> lol?
[07:10:00] <skinnypup> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-track_tape
[07:10:10] <pfred1> but it was better than whatever we could tune in on the radio
[07:10:32] <Jymmm> is that the thing they had back in the 30's ?
[07:10:36] <skinnypup> someone must have lawnmowered over a bunch in my sideyard once a long time ago
[07:11:02] <skinnypup> i find parts all the time
[07:11:21] <pfred1> I never owned an 8 track player
[07:11:34] <pfred1> I went right to cassette
[07:11:44] <fragalot> oldest piece of tech i've had is a Sinclair QL
[07:11:46] <fragalot> :/
[07:11:53] <fragalot> ewll, that used tapes anyway
[07:12:01] <pfred1> i have a timex sinclair 1000
[07:12:16] <pfred1> but its tape interface never worked for me
[07:12:33] <fragalot> I love how it was so reliable you HAD to run the tapes in RAID1
[07:12:38] <fragalot> in order for them to work
[07:13:18] <pfred1> i had a travan for a PC and put a bunch of crap onto tape
[07:13:24] <pfred1> then could never get any of it back off
[07:13:51] <pfred1> heck all my floppy drives seem dead now
[07:14:44] <fragalot> lol
[07:14:45] <pfred1> I went so far as to take a couple apart and like lube them up being as the grease froze inside them
[07:14:48] <fragalot> my DOS disk stillworks
[07:14:54] <fragalot> used it last week to update my bios
[07:15:20] <fragalot> pfred1: did you make a horrid mess?
[07:15:34] <pfred1> no I used an 0 paintbrush
[07:15:51] <fragalot> I meant when they revved up
[07:16:02] <pfred1> lubing them did help but I think the heads oxidized or something
[07:16:22] <fragalot> tried another drive?
[07:16:33] <pfred1> yes and different systems
[07:16:36] <fragalot> oh, my USB floppy drive is epic
[07:17:07] <fragalot> if you try and use it to install drivers windows needs during install, it works, yo usee the driveers, selects them, but windows unloads the USB driver for it first
[07:17:15] <fragalot> so it goes "ok." "wait, what?" and dies
[07:17:19] <pfred1> I've transfered most data i ever had on floppies onto CDs long ago
[07:17:33] <fragalot> CDs are terrible for storage too really
[07:17:46] <pfred1> but I wanted to setup a system that couldn't boot off a CD drive
[07:18:12] <pfred1> I got CDs I burnt 10 years ago that are still fine
[07:18:24] <pfred1> well from 1996
[07:18:36] <fragalot> I've chucked out roughl 700 Cds
[07:19:06] <pfred1> some if like the discs were really terrible or a drive was dying I've had troubles with
[07:19:09] <fragalot> half of them were dead and the other half just had random useless junk on them lol
[07:19:33] <pfred1> yeah i saved the damnest things like tar.gz files I'd downloaded
[07:19:46] <fragalot> same
[07:19:47] <pfred1> like the internet was going to explode or something I donno
[07:19:59] <fragalot> it has, haven't you seen the southpark episode?
[07:20:17] <fragalot> they had to reboot the internet to fix it
[07:20:25] <pfred1> but I've saved other stuff I've made as well
[07:23:54] <pfred1> I never sat through a whole episode of south park
[07:24:21] <pfred1> I've seen clips think i even saw a vid on youtube once of the funniest south park stuff
[07:25:06] <pfred1> I can't say as I'm a fan of the show though I don't see the attraction
[07:27:24] <pfred1> apparently the biggest load on my system is htop
[07:27:46] <fragalot> lol
[07:27:53] <fragalot> if that's the only thign that has to do anyting that's normal I'd say
[07:28:07] <pfred1> well i am in X
[07:28:24] <pfred1> which is sucking back a lot more RAM
[07:28:35] <fragalot> Note that a JDK is not necessary if the renderer web
[07:28:39] <fragalot> oops
[07:28:57] <fragalot> pfred1: X doesn't need a lot of cpu resourcse if you're not donig anything :P
[07:29:07] <pfred1> seemingly not
[07:29:14] <pfred1> I'm in fluxbox
[07:30:08] <pfred1> dragging a window around gave X the top slot!
[07:30:48] <pfred1> hmm i have to install all the gl nonsense
[07:31:04] <pfred1> no glxgears :(
[07:31:39] <skinnypup> conky is useful as well btw
[07:31:45] <fragalot> aye
[07:31:53] <fragalot> or gkrell for remote systems
[07:31:58] <skinnypup> yup
[07:32:06] <fragalot> looks 1337 too
[07:32:28] <skinnypup> l337 blast from the past :)
[07:32:58] <fragalot> :P
[07:33:27] <pfred1> oh glxgears ia burning up the cpu
[07:33:59] <fragalot> it does that
[07:34:12] <fragalot> cpuburn 'l probably dod the same
[07:34:12] <pfred1> yeah but all I was getting was 1914 frames in 5.0 seconds = 382.714 FPS
[07:34:12] <fragalot> :P
[07:34:24] <fragalot> pfred1: that would mean that either you have no gpu or it's not beeing used
[07:34:43] <pfred1> this machine has a rage 128 in it
[07:34:52] <fragalot> it's not ebeeing used
[07:34:59] <pfred1> which ain't great but I'd think it can do more
[07:35:06] <fragalot> it can
[07:35:12] <pfred1> yeah it is something I'll have to work on
[07:35:20] <fragalot> yep. fix your xorg.conf
[07:35:38] <pfred1> I got the module loaded
[07:35:52] <pfred1> drm 140448 3 r128
[07:36:07] <pfred1> so there is something up with that
[07:36:25] <pfred1> maybe it can't do any better?
[07:36:38] <fragalot> unload and try again?
[07:37:55] <pfred1> whats that command glinfo or something?
[07:38:09] <pfred1> there is some command that tells you if you'e accelerated
[07:38:22] <fragalot> *shrug*
[07:42:19] <pfred1> k i have to restart X
[11:26:04] <morficmobile> got our frame back, we cleaned the ways with thinner before taping them for the painter, they were supposed to put oil back on the freshly ground ways after taking tape off.....they didn't, ways looked awesome after grinding, grmbl, now there was rust on it again, not as bad as before, just sucks seeing such carelessness
[11:27:04] <Jymmm> Send em back.
[11:29:00] <morficmobile> to who? the painter? our maintenance guy cleaned off the rust already, wouldn't have trusted the painter to do anything to the ways now anyway ;)
[11:33:09] <morficmobile> Boss thinks machine will run this year, servos/drives are more 4-6 weeks ARO, so we might not even see them 2010
[11:35:23] <morficmobile> Jymmm: aside, what i really meant to say was "good morning, guess what happened" ;)
[11:35:36] <Jymmm> liar! lol
[11:36:21] <Jymmm> morficmobile: It's ok, you can rant all you like!
[11:45:49] <morficmobile> hey Valen
[11:45:55] <Valen> sup
[13:52:47] <alexis_4315> lol
[14:19:55] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17889&filter=domino%20templates
[14:21:38] <Paragon39> Hello All, Can one use sewing machine oil for lathe and mill lubrication? Such as this http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=light+machine+oil&_sacat=0&_dmd=1&_odkw=machine+oil&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313
[14:21:59] <cradek> are you asking "can" or "should"?
[14:22:15] <Paragon39> Both! ;-)
[14:22:39] <cradek> the answer to "can" is obviously yes
[14:23:07] <Paragon39> Thought so but one should'nt?
[14:23:20] <cradek> are you talking about lubricating sliding parts (ways)?
[14:23:35] <cradek> way oil is specially made for sliding parts
[14:23:59] <cradek> if you don't have that, any lubrication is better than none, but you may have trouble getting it to stay where you need it
[14:24:09] <atmega> 10w40 is made for moving parts
[14:25:06] <Paragon39> The question was in relation to this diagram of a Boxford lathe. It states light machine oil. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4PW-TLZheA-fW-gPr-cnwnI2zMd85bAjf-H58HwgYRbi0EsRz5HlHaTqxzFjywwZCO3kSp6MrBTKvcXeukNvf6xv_mgdrJnP7_rj9im-gIMp0W8/Lubrication/Boxford_Lub_Chart.jpg
[14:25:49] <Paragon39> Not sure if you can see that link if your not a member of the group! ?
[14:26:20] <cradek> I bet sewing machine oil is like a light machine oil
[14:26:29] <cradek> yes the picture displays
[14:27:15] <Paragon39> I have way oil wish is quite viscous but just want to be sure.
[14:28:43] <Paragon39> atmega: 10w40 that's engine oil right?
[14:29:48] <atmega> yes.
[14:29:56] <Paragon39> cradek: So one could use sewing machine oil where that diagram states light machine oil then?
[14:30:16] <cradek> I'm no expert but it seems like you could
[14:30:29] <cradek> (I'd use way oil on the ways)
[14:30:33] <atmega> I have a can (old, metal) of Singer Sewing Machine oil that says "Light Machine Oil" on it
[14:31:53] <Paragon39> Thanks Chaps. I wanted to run it passed you for your views on the matter! :-)
[14:32:39] <Paragon39> It's got to be better than 3in1 right?
[14:33:17] <atmega> I doubt it is much different
[14:33:43] <celeron55_> celeron55_ is now known as celeron55
[15:11:45] <skinnypup> I traced my bp spindle getting stuck back to a friend using motor oil in my metal squirt can. Modern oil has next to no adhesion properties.
[15:13:24] <skinnypup> Engine oil that is
[16:25:03] <elmo42> elmo42 is now known as elmo40
[16:49:48] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as bootnecklad
[19:33:36] <skunkworks> wonder how much these cost http://www.adlinktech.com/PD/web/PD_detail.php?pid=20
[19:34:58] <andypugh> Have a look at http://www.ni.com/ They sell very similar stuff, but their pricing is easy to find
[19:35:50] <PLO-9835> selam yardım edeck varmı
[19:36:34] <andypugh> skunkworks: For example: http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/1123
[19:36:58] <PLO-9835> pardus cd sini bilgisayara takıyorum
[19:37:14] <PLO-9835> sonra minimum ayarlara tıklıyorum
[19:37:17] <PLO-9835> bu hatayı verıyor
[19:37:38] <archivist> PLO-9835, try english if you can
[19:38:02] <archivist> google translate
[19:38:07] <PLO-9835> /bin/sh can't access tty;jop control turned off
[19:38:14] <PLO-9835> bu hatayı verıyor
[19:38:14] <PLO-9835> yardım
[19:38:38] <andypugh> Turkish
[19:38:53] <PLO-9835> turkish
[19:39:06] <andypugh> PLO-9835: I wear my computer pardus cd sini
[19:39:06] <andypugh> [20:37] PLO-9835: I click settings, then the minimum
[19:39:07] <andypugh> [20:37] PLO-9835: it gives error
[19:39:07] <andypugh> [20:37] Archivist: PLO-9835, if you can try türkçe
[19:39:07] <andypugh> [20:38] Archivist: google translate
[19:39:07] <andypugh> [20:38] PLO-9835: / bin / sh can not access tty; Jop control turned off
[19:39:08] <andypugh> [20:38] PLO-9835: it gives error
[19:39:08] <andypugh> [20:38] PLO-9835: help
[19:39:58] <skunkworks> andypugh: wow - I like mesa even more ;)
[19:41:14] <PLO-9835> Do not have helped
[19:41:26] <psha> '/bin/sh can not access tty;...' is displayed when root device is not found and init fails back to busybox
[19:41:52] <psha> check messages above first
[19:42:04] <psha> there must be reason why boot failed
[19:42:29] <PLO-9835> Do not have helped
[19:42:51] <psha> Да я тоже не понимаю что ты пишешь :)
[19:43:36] <psha> use english please :) if everyone will speak there native language it'll be very difficult to talk here :)
[19:43:47] <psha> s/there/their/
[19:45:40] <andypugh> PLO-9835: tip "dmesg" ve yapıştırın www.pastebin.ca de sonuç
[19:45:54] <andypugh> (That was Google translate, I will stop now, I think)
[19:47:06] <psha> andypugh: at first i've thought that you understand what he's writing :)
[19:50:36] <PLO-9835> I went to the computer sets the minimum error was introduced after pardus
[19:50:41] <PLO-9835> helped
[19:52:10] <andypugh> "pardus" is not translating, and I think it is important
[19:55:27] <PLO-9835> Write in English when I click on the settings I can tell you the minimum andypugh pardus pardus channel and paste it fails to help you have the solution you're helped
[19:57:01] <PLO-9835> Write in English when I click on the settings I can tell you the minimum andypugh pardus pardus channel and paste it fails to help you have the solution you're helped
[19:58:44] <andypugh> I feel sorry for the poor chap, but I have no idea how to help.
[20:03:11] <Connor> You guys have any good designs for a Vacuum shoe? I'm using the Bosch Colt... I've noticed it has a bit of a downdraft too it...
[20:11:42] <andypugh> Have a look at EMC2 routers on Youtube?
[20:12:27] <Connor> Not in a while.
[20:13:46] <andypugh> I think I have seen vacuum extract things on there
[20:14:15] <andypugh> Of course, I might be completely misunderstanding what you mean.
[20:28:46] <Paragon39> andypugh: How are you today? I thought I'd let you know that I have had some success with regards to the IMO Idrive :-)
[20:29:30] <andypugh> That's good. I have had some success here with my Drive drivr
[20:29:43] <andypugh> It is now possible to use a Mesa 8i20 with EMC2
[20:30:05] <Paragon39> Very nice :-)
[20:31:22] <skunkworks> andypugh: Nice work !
[20:31:31] <Paragon39> The 8i20 = servo drive amplifier right?
[20:31:51] <andypugh> I am wondering, actually, if you could use it as an old-school dumb VFD. It is meant to be a BLDC servo drive, but driven open loop I think 300V three-phase is 300V three phase.
[20:32:21] <andypugh> Yes, 400V 3Hp servo drive.
[20:32:42] <andypugh> You can hang 32 of them from a single Mesa card.
[20:33:02] <andypugh> (A large power supply would be needed)
[20:33:53] <andypugh> So, your Boxford?
[20:34:37] <Paragon39> I'm just reading an article about it now... 2200W 16A RMS 30A peak 24v - 400VDC
[20:36:05] <atmega> anyone know how much a VFD for a 5hp single phase would be in US?
[20:37:17] <cradek> do you mean single phase input? I've never seen one that big
[20:37:32] <atmega> yeah, that would explain why I've never seen one.
[20:37:40] <cradek> check automationdirect.com - theirs are about the cheapest
[20:37:48] <cradek> GS2/GS3
[20:37:59] <cradek> I think you can get 2-3hp single phase in, but that's about it
[20:38:05] <andypugh> Direct from Hong Kong, $250?
[20:38:06] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-NEW-5HP-4KW-/230510763131?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item35ab831c7b
[20:38:36] <andypugh> Claims to be either 3-phase or 1-phase input (there is no reason for them to care, the first stage is a rectifier)
[20:38:45] <Paragon39> The drive was running in vf mode so I configured it to use vector mode, entered the data for the motor rating etc. The OL1 was set to 1.4A so that was why it was cutting out. It turns out the motor is actuallt 550W not 750W. I set it the drive to 230V 2.6A as stated on the brook crompton motor and it is running much much better. It starts the spindle where it didn't before for but I still...
[20:38:46] <Paragon39> ...need to give it a slight pull when the underdrive is set for it's fastest range. I think I can improve it further though with a little more start boost. :-)
[20:39:03] <atmega> cool
[20:39:05] <cradek> andypugh: I think it's mostly a question of capacitor size
[20:39:39] <cradek> andypugh: if it works, cool, that's a fine price I bet
[20:40:14] <atmega> I want to soft start a compressor
[20:40:28] <atmega> any idea if they have problems running off a generator?
[20:40:56] <cradek> I don't see why it would be a problem
[20:44:53] <andypugh> atmega: You can't soft-start a compressor
[20:45:19] <andypugh> But: Do you have a relieving valve fitted?
[20:46:20] <andypugh> A properly set-up compressor has a valve on the pressure switch which bleeds the air from the pump and line to the tank, and a non-return in the tank line. That way the motor always starts up unloaded.
[20:51:53] <atmega> It needs to start less than unloaded
[20:52:05] <andypugh> I am going to change my mind and decide that you can soft-start a compressor with a relieving valve, on reflection.
[20:52:31] <atmega> but yes, it has condensate drains between each stage that are open at startup
[21:20:20] <bootnecklad> I think I shall implement an IDE drive in my ttl cpu! http://www.pjrc.com/tech/8051/ide/wesley.html
[21:42:24] <andypugh> bootnecklad: You're a loony!
[22:24:30] <pcncx> does anyone here know what the column headers mean in the command: cd /usr/realtime/testsuite/kern/latency/; time ./run
[22:24:50] <andypugh> Not really, no.
[22:25:18] <pcncx> like which column is my latency?
[22:25:34] <andypugh> As setting a thread interval to slightly more than the thread latency doesn't seem to make sense
[22:26:02] <pcncx> well I'm not ready to set anything I was just wondering you know?
[22:26:32] <pcncx> I see this bunch of cryptic numbers on my screen and I want to know what they mean to me
[22:27:49] <pcncx> I mean there has to be a webpage about this package or something somewhere that explains this
[22:29:16] <andypugh> You can run the latency test from the menu now
[22:29:30] <andypugh> It might be a little less cryptic
[22:29:42] <pcncx> I installed this RTAI onto a bare Debian install
[22:29:54] <andypugh> Let me run it on mine and see what I see
[22:30:06] <pcncx> OK
[22:31:18] <tom3p> (this is not a smart assed answer but its the truth ) the source code will tell you what each column is
[22:31:19] <pcncx> I'm going to guess that ovl max is over all maximum
[22:31:25] <qq-> pcncx, how you get /usr/realtime/ folder ? , here on debian it isn't set
[22:31:39] <pcncx> qq- I had to make a link
[22:31:50] <pcncx> qq- it was in the instructions page
[22:32:03] <pcncx> qq- ln -s /usr/realtime/modules/ /lib/modules/
[22:32:19] <qq-> i see
[22:32:35] <pcncx> though mine is slightly different
[22:32:55] <pcncx> but it is something like that
[22:32:56] <qq-> /usr/realtime/testsuite is a link too ?
[22:33:05] <pcncx> I don't know file it
[22:33:14] <pcncx> let me see
[22:33:17] <qq-> wtf that links
[22:33:32] <pcncx> says it is a directory on my system
[22:33:35] <qq-> debian has /usr/testsuite
[22:33:54] <andypugh> use ovl_max as your system latency
[22:34:18] <andypugh> (mine is a rather impressive 5000)
[22:34:24] <qq-> ovl == overlay ?
[22:34:28] <pcncx> I got 7469
[22:34:29] <andypugh> overall
[22:34:33] <pcncx> I think it means over all
[22:34:39] <qq-> ah , thx
[22:34:49] <pcncx> but mne started at 7469 and never changed
[22:34:55] <andypugh> start glxgears if youhave it, and play some MP3s while watching youtube
[22:35:11] <pcncx> no sound
[22:35:14] <andypugh> ovl max holds the max value of ovl
[22:35:25] <pcncx> I didn't build sound modules
[22:35:36] <pcncx> but I do have glxgears
[22:35:54] <pcncx> running it pins my CPU
[22:36:31] <andypugh> You want to see how bad it can get. No point setting it up for 7k latency and then getting a 20k spike.
[22:36:42] <andypugh> Anything up to 30k is eminently usable.
[22:36:48] <pcncx> strangely it makes it better
[22:37:15] <pcncx> with glxgears running I get a 6515
[22:37:47] <pcncx> best laugh i had all day!
[22:38:01] <andypugh> SMP system?
[22:38:07] <morficmobile> is your cpu scaling and the glxgear load keeps it high?
[22:38:14] <pcncx> I swear computers were designed by the devil to irritate all of us
[22:38:22] <pcncx> UP system
[22:38:27] <andypugh> I have read of cases of a busy-loop improving latency, something to do with caching behaviour
[22:38:39] <pcncx> yeah well now you've seen it
[22:39:04] <pcncx> because glxgears burns up whatever CPU I have like 97.9%
[22:39:51] <andypugh> Use 10k in the setup wizard and you should have very good performance.
[22:40:27] <pcncx> yeah running the hardy emc2 was it I think i had to use 20K
[22:41:01] <andypugh> 20k is still pretty good, not many steppers go higher than that
[22:42:08] <pcncx> once i get the rest of EMC2 installed I'll use its latency tool as well but I haven't gotten that far yet
[22:42:23] <pcncx> this inspires me to see it through thanks
[22:42:37] <pcncx> just getting to here has been a lot of work
[22:42:54] <andypugh> Building EMC from source is pretty easy once you have the RT kernel
[22:43:10] <pcncx> andypugh comforting words :)
[22:43:30] <andypugh> It might well "Just Work"
[22:43:31] <pcncx> because building that kernel man I swear I was about to kidnap somebody with a PHd to do it for me!
[22:43:54] <qq-> hey, using a custon rtai kernel, some key combination as Ctrl+Alt+ F4 changed the 'behavior' as in 'stock' kernel , is it a kown issue ?
[22:44:21] <andypugh> I have a PhD, I was about to kidnap a shoolboy to help me with my kernel build.
[22:45:02] <pcncx> andypugh well I'll admit it I learned a lot towards the end I found two commands that if I knew them at the outset I'd have gotten right to it
[22:45:38] <pcncx> I am like a Linux kernel building God now!
[22:46:08] <pcncx> I stopped trying to build Linux kernels when 2.2.X came around
[22:46:37] <pcncx> the 2.0.X series was pretty easy then it got very complicated
[22:46:48] <qq-> heh , so why building 'only' a 2.6.30 kernel ?
[22:47:21] <pcncx> qq- I want this to be all it can be and it seemed the only alternative to me
[22:47:30] <qq-> even i i build an .32
[22:47:53] <pcncx> I may bild a custom kernel for my other box after having gone through all of this
[22:48:09] <pcncx> I may not too it works
[22:48:31] <pcncx> but I'll admit the thought has crossed my mind in the process
[22:48:49] <qq-> any idea about my issue ?
[22:49:09] <pcncx> maybe X gets suspended when you go to a console?
[22:49:22] <pcncx> I donno just a guess
[22:50:16] <pcncx> ctrl+alt"+FX does take you out of X right?
[22:50:39] <qq-> well i still stay on X , but is kind off blocked , no more kbd, mouse strange
[22:50:48] <pcncx> and X does use funky kernel modules when it runs depending on your setup
[22:51:08] <pcncx> like i use drm and a module for my video adapter here
[22:51:30] <pcncx> not that it helps me very much
[22:51:44] <pcncx> I get like 300 fps with glxgears
[22:52:16] <qq-> so how can I find what do that 'Ctrl+Alt+ F4 ' in background ?
[22:52:41] <pcncx> oh you're saying it just happens on your system?
[22:52:57] <tom3p> system|preferences|keyboard shortcuts may help
[22:53:00] <pcncx> man if i had a PC that did that I'd like beat it with a bat
[22:53:26] <pcncx> I'd be like you're possessed die!
[22:53:38] <qq-> pcncx, yes on my testing laptop
[22:54:06] <pcncx> laptop does it have any acpi junk activated? like advanced power control junk?
[22:55:26] <qq-> tom3p, thanks , but changing the kernel may change the shortcuts ? thats my real question
[22:56:17] <pcncx> I use my same input drivers here
[22:56:26] <qq-> pcncx, how can i test it ? acpi thing
[22:56:53] <pcncx> just look in the kernel's menuconfig or lsmod and figure out whos what
[22:57:33] <pcncx> I don't think laptops need any of that stuff but i gues if it is normal it is all nice to have on a general purpose machine
[22:57:57] <pcncx> but all of that stuff seems prety bad when it comes to this rtai
[22:58:04] <qq-> i seen only acpi_cpufreq , but now i'm on stock kernel
[22:58:13] <pcncx> yeah that one is a definate no no
[22:58:43] <pcncx> you want full throttle with rtai
[22:59:10] <pcncx> I think the only safe one is like dock
[22:59:27] <pcncx> which I'll admit I don't understand
[22:59:58] <pcncx> I've a half a mind to say the help file in the kernel is wrong somehow about it
[23:00:20] <qq-> pcncx, i was ~ 20 min ago , on rtai kernel and it blocked on a command as "X -configure :1" , so i done a cold reboot on stock one
[23:00:52] <pcncx> yeah X config should work on either kernel
[23:01:20] <pcncx> heck I don't even had a config file on this box I never made one at any rate I just use the on the fly one
[23:01:33] <pcncx> though i may have to make one
[23:01:57] <pcncx> I think of i try to use the proprietaty video driver it messes with rtai though
[23:02:09] <qq-> now you are on rtai kernel , ? try "X -configure :1"
[23:02:30] <pcncx> wouldn't that configure a second X session?
[23:02:40] <qq-> no
[23:02:52] <pcncx> isn't :1 second screen?
[23:02:56] <qq-> will do a xorg.conf only
[23:03:25] <pcncx> and there is a deb command to reconfigure X anyways
[23:03:31] <qq-> pcncx, yes , but because you are using :0 right now
[23:04:12] <qq-> pcncx, thats command to reconfigure X NOW : "X -configure :1"
[23:04:30] <pcncx> OK I'll give it a shot
[23:04:55] <qq-> do it, as root
[23:05:12] <pcncx> I did it made my screen blank for a second and that was it
[23:05:53] <qq-> ok, normal . now ls /root/ xorg.conf.new
[23:06:21] <qq-> maybe , cat /root/xorg.conf.new
[23:06:40] <pcncx> well I wasn't in my home dir when i issued the command does that matter?
[23:06:51] <qq-> no
[23:07:02] <qq-> done it as root ?
[23:07:04] <pcncx> how about that there is a file there
[23:07:45] <qq-> pcncx, in english please
[23:07:52] <pcncx> hmm I wonder why I have this? #Option "NoAccel" # [<bool>]
[23:07:55] <qq-> nvm
[23:08:48] <pcncx> I want option Accel!
[23:08:56] <qq-> pcncx, don't touch this , and other if you just 'guess' things
[23:09:19] <pcncx> I've edited lots of xorg.conf files
[23:09:48] <pcncx> made up bizarre modelines and everything
[23:10:05] <pcncx> had to do that to get xmame to work once
[23:10:49] <pcncx> making up modelines you can fry your monitor where it sits
[23:12:35] <pcncx> that is pretty cool it looks like dpmi works on this box
[23:14:36] <qq-> pcncx, anyways , your emc is working ?
[23:14:56] <pcncx> qq- I don't have emc installed yet
[23:15:07] <pcncx> I just got done doing rtai
[23:15:24] <qq-> ah, ok
[23:15:35] <pcncx> which was no mean feat let me tell you
[23:15:59] <pcncx> but i am having acceleration issues with this video adapter here so I am checking into it
[23:15:59] <qq-> using which rtai ?
[23:16:31] <pcncx> hmmm all it says is rtai-source.tar.bz2 rather cryptic
[23:17:02] <pcncx> I'm sure I noted exactly what it is somewhere let me look at notes
[23:17:03] <qq-> 1371 frames in 5.0 seconds = 274.029 FPS
[23:17:33] <pcncx> I'm a little over 300 here
[23:17:49] <pcncx> 1568 frames in 5.0 seconds = 313.468 FPS
[23:18:08] <pcncx> not exactly stellar
[23:18:23] <qq-> none care
[23:18:32] <qq-> it's enough
[23:18:33] <pcncx> axis is gl
[23:18:49] <pcncx> and if i used my GPU maybe I could offload some of the processing onto it
[23:19:10] <pcncx> in any event it is something I'd like to explore to some sort of a conclusion
[23:19:23] <pcncx> as it stands now I am up in the air about it
[23:19:49] <pcncx> I think i've run the prop drivers and they did mess with emc
[23:20:11] <pcncx> but that was a totally different setup I'd be game for another go
[23:21:12] <qq-> 'I just got done doing rtai' means that ?
[23:21:29] <pcncx> building a kernel with rtai
[23:21:44] <qq-> who you done it ?
[23:21:51] <pcncx> yes
[23:21:57] <qq-> how*
[23:22:04] <pcncx> it took about 7 tries but i finally managed it
[23:22:21] <pcncx> I followed the instructions on linuxcnc
[23:22:34] <qq-> on debian ?
[23:22:40] <pcncx> it is a bit vague in places but it gets you there
[23:22:43] <qq-> which version?
[23:22:46] <pcncx> yes on a bare Lenny
[23:23:44] <pcncx> I've run a few Linux distros and I must admit once you get past the fanaticism Lenny is pretty nice
[23:24:32] <pcncx> like i can get into X with 43 total processes running
[23:24:49] <pcncx> that included a terminal running top to check it out
[23:25:34] <pcncx> using 50 MB RAM
[23:25:40] <qq-> here 3 running
[23:25:46] <qq-> hehe
[23:25:50] <pcncx> I said total not running
[23:26:41] <qq-> they are total only , not running one
[23:27:03] <qq-> 143 total, 1 running, 142 sleeping
[23:27:06] <pcncx> you task switch between them they all run
[23:27:21] <pcncx> Tasks: 46 total, 1 running, 45 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
[23:27:31] <pcncx> with 2 terminals and this IRC client in one
[23:27:32] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge hates watching when a 1/8" end mill is spinning at 6k and plunges at 472IPM to 0.025 above the work piece the first time
[23:27:43] <Valen> Tasks: 238 total, 3 running, 235 sleeping,
[23:28:06] <Valen> JT-Hardinge: I'd love to get an endmill to 6K
[23:28:14] <Valen> damn slow ass 1600rpm spindle
[23:28:37] <pcncx> Valen put it into a die grinder
[23:28:49] <Valen> pcncx: I have used the nvidia driver with SMP kernel and not had any issues other than a spike when starting an openGL window
[23:28:54] <pcncx> I got one pneumatic die grinder thing does over 100K
[23:29:12] <Valen> we do have a dremel knokoff on the side of the head
[23:29:15] <JT-Hardinge> I went from 4200 on the BP series 1 to 6k on this one but never used past 3k on the BP cause it was too loud
[23:29:17] <pcncx> Valen I wish I had a nvidia card ati here
[23:29:25] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LvdrHvGxJ8
[23:30:05] <pcncx> Valen the one high speed air die grinder I have is funny it is like a baby jet engine
[23:30:28] <pcncx> when i fire it up it sounds like it is taxiing down the runway
[23:31:01] <pcncx> thing is beautiful swiss made
[23:33:35] <pcncx> wait i just looked it is made in sweeden an iro hfs 100
[23:36:12] <pcncx> doing an image search for sweeden iro hfs 100 is a bizarre mix of images
[23:37:33] <pcncx> now that is one cozy looking liquor store or what? http://www.toutvannes.com/nicolas/vin.jpg
[23:37:37] <Valen> andypugh: we never actually did the run it on a table with tape
[23:37:42] <Valen> I feel left out yaknow
[23:38:45] <tom3p> touchscreens mentioned on cadcamdro list http://tinyurl.com/2b9qsuf
[23:39:53] <pcncx> OK I'm ready to follow the instructions here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_EMC2 any cavaets I should be aware of that anyone here knows about?
[23:41:36] <andypugh> You might find NTUs instructions better.
[23:41:56] <pcncx> andypugh hey I'm up for it URL?
[23:42:06] <qq-> http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/livecd
[23:42:07] <andypugh> http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-ubuntu
[23:42:23] <pcncx> I was just looking at all the packages i have to install I hope i got the disk space!
[23:43:11] <pcncx> yeah I'll be OK I still got 9 GB in /
[23:43:18] <andypugh> 15a onwards at that URL I gave should work
[23:44:37] <pcncx> andypugh i must say it is much more succinct
[23:46:07] <pcncx> I am getting the feeling that the other page negates 16a
[23:47:05] <pcncx> but hey I'll give is a whirl what do I have to lose?
[23:47:31] <andypugh> You might need to get autogen and autoconf, but you might already have them
[23:47:48] <pcncx> andypugh I'll let you know in a minute :)
[23:50:15] <pcncx> I must have missed a step because this first command is already bombing out on me here
[23:50:22] <pcncx> bash: cd: emc2_2.4.4/src/hal/drivers: No such file or directory
[23:51:23] <andypugh> You got the source and unpacked it?
[23:51:40] <pcncx> I don't know i copy pasted the command and the dir seems here to me
[23:51:55] <pcncx> /home/paulcnc/EMC2/emc2-2.4.4/src/hal/drivers
[23:52:34] <andypugh> Type the full path then?
[23:52:52] <pcncx> yes i am going to break this compound command up and see what it going on
[23:53:46] <andypugh> You could try skipping that, there is a tweak to change a function name for PCI card detection, that is probably not needed with the kernel you are using.
[23:54:13] <pcncx> is that what this sed line does?
[23:54:36] <pcncx> sed -i 's/pci_find_device/pci_get_device/g' *.c
[23:54:51] <pcncx> yeah can't say as I'm 100% about it
[23:55:13] <andypugh> I think that is what it is doing, I saw him discussing it on the dev channel.
[23:55:33] <pcncx> well i found the problem
[23:55:40] <pcncx> there is no configure script in this directory
[23:56:22] <pcncx> they might want to edit their instructions somehow to reflect this fact
[23:57:13] <pcncx> nah thats not it I donno I'll just build it normally
[23:57:22] <andypugh> the configure script should be in /src/
[23:57:28] <qq-> pcncx, read README , and ./autoconf.sh
[23:57:40] <pcncx> qq- that would help
[23:57:43] <pcncx> if it needs it
[23:58:56] <qq-> well is autogen.sh
[23:59:28] <qq-> pcncx, but install 2.4.5 , it's the lastest