#emc | Logs for 2010-10-18

[00:04:24] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[01:29:44] <willeo> how do i display work coordinate systems in emc? g54 55 56
[01:33:19] <willeo> can i show machine position on dro page?
[01:36:01] <Valen> you can
[01:36:21] <Valen> in the menu's somewhere there is an option for relative vs actual
[01:36:24] <Valen> you want actual
[01:38:27] <willeo> i want machine - regardless of actual work offset. i'd like to display current work offset like fanuc as well
[01:39:19] <willeo> machine position to me has nothing to do with program coordinates, but all work offsets establish zero in machine coordinates
[01:39:40] <willeo> program coordinate zero that is
[01:42:31] <willeo> can i see the work offset page somewhere too?
[01:49:53] <willeo> in machine tab, homing, unhoming, zero work coordinate - they are greyed out - what do they do and how do i ungrey them?
[02:10:42] <Valen> you need to turn the machine on
[02:10:46] <Valen> and setup the home stuff
[02:11:03] <willeo> ok, still in office - no drives connected yet
[02:11:12] <willeo> will come alive when wired up
[02:11:17] <Valen> you can still "turn it on"
[02:21:50] <willeo> can i get more than 9 work coordinate systems or do i need to keep doing g10's if i need more
[02:22:56] <Valen> i believe there are only 10 cordinate systems
[02:23:04] <Valen> that is a fair few, why do you want more?
[02:23:34] <cradek> there are just 9, but you might find g92 useful too
[02:23:34] <willeo> rotary table work with multiple parts, have parts using 24 offsetss on 4 parts now
[02:24:27] <Valen> a cordinate system is not an offset
[02:24:34] <Valen> there are offsets as well i believe
[02:24:36] <willeo> is there a way to view them like a tool table?
[02:24:51] <willeo> using 24 work coordinates...
[02:24:59] <cradek> not really
[02:25:53] <cradek> brb
[02:33:22] <willeo> so how do you zero only 1 axis of a wcs? use g92?
[02:33:43] <willeo> many of my parts i pick up 1 ax at a time and verify when working 4 ax...
[02:34:10] <willeo> the buttons look like an all at once deal
[02:35:00] <willeo> i use g92 occasionally now, especially the edm's
[02:36:28] <Valen> touch off only affects the current cordinate system as far as i'm aware
[02:41:17] <willeo> but if only want x of g54....
[02:41:32] <willeo> use g92?
[02:41:52] <Valen> what?
[02:42:17] <willeo> many times I can't get to a spot to hit all 4 axes at the same time and hit " zero it all"
[02:42:27] <willeo> so I find x and set it
[02:42:31] <willeo> then y
[02:42:33] <willeo> then z
[02:42:34] <Valen> yes, you touch off x
[02:42:46] <willeo> and the 4th in 4 ax is usually first
[02:42:59] <willeo> butin fanuc work offsets are like a tool table
[02:43:13] <willeo> you can read machine coords and enter in the chart
[02:43:22] <willeo> adjust if you have to
[02:43:37] <Valen> there are offsets, and cordinate spaces
[02:43:50] <Valen> as seperate things
[02:45:48] <willeo> where are coordinate sopaces listed at?
[02:45:58] <willeo> or offsets
[02:46:08] <willeo> is there a table for either?
[02:46:22] <willeo> like the fanuc work coordinate/ offset pages
[02:46:25] <Valen> there isnt a table as far as i'm aware
[02:46:29] <Valen> it is not fanuc
[02:46:34] <Valen> its not trying to clone a fanuc
[02:46:42] <Valen> it is its own thing
[02:46:45] <willeo> ok
[02:47:03] <Valen> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G92,-G92.1,-G92.2,
[02:50:10] <willeo> can I back them up to a file?
[02:53:48] <Valen> I believe they generally are
[02:55:05] <willeo> this may be a silly ass question, but why doesn't emc emulate fanuc in a work coordinate system table and 48 milling coordinate systems available?
[03:06:12] <Valen> because emc IS NOT FANUC!
[03:06:26] <Valen> and nobody has needed 48 cordinate systems
[03:06:58] <Valen> do you have 48 vices on your table?
[03:08:18] <willeo> ok, don't get panties in a knot.... and yes i have used 42 of 48 offsets on a part on a hmc between 2 pallets, 2 parts per pallet, 9 rotations per part
[03:08:39] <willeo> and some features depending how they are fixtured were programmed in their own wcs
[03:11:13] <Valen> why do you need a new offset for a rotation?
[03:11:55] <willeo6709> I put a forging on the table, machine a reference face from a contour
[03:12:03] <willeo6709> I turn the 4th
[03:12:24] <willeo6709> find where the parti, define a coordinate system to machine a feature
[03:12:50] <Valen> but you dont need to keep using new cordinate systems for every operation
[03:13:02] <willeo6709> a complex feature with critical relations can be adjusted by shifting the work coordinate system - so some critical features in their own coordinate system def
[03:13:16] <willeo6709> not all but some critical relationships
[03:13:45] <willeo6709> we are talking production parts where adjustments have to be made and instead of editing xyz numbers i'd rather shift a wcs
[03:14:02] <Valen> do you touch off each time?
[03:14:26] <willeo6709> touch off first time then adjust from cmm reports
[03:15:26] <willeo6709> or if your wcs is out of tolerance a couple thousandths in a table you can go in and adjust without using a g92
[03:15:45] <willeo6709> by the numbers
[03:16:00] <willeo6709> kinda like flying a airplane on instruments
[03:16:16] <Valen> you can adjust the relative positing of a cordinate system without touching off
[03:16:33] <Valen> you are trying to get EMC to work like your fanuc
[03:16:52] <Valen> your probably better off trying to use EMC to do the job you want to do
[03:17:23] <willeo6709> in other words get in bed with g10's because i am going to have to love them
[03:17:49] <Valen> or change your workflow
[03:18:19] <Valen> or make a convincing case for adding 40 odd cordinate systems to the devs
[03:18:28] <Valen> or do it yourself
[03:20:46] <KimK> Hi willeo6709, Valen, Yes, I'd like to see more work coordinates too, although we did discover the G10 option. And if I can mention another control (that EMC is not), Haas has maybe 200(?) stored fixtures. They used (I think) G154 P1 thru G154 P199. I may be wrong on that, I'm not a regular Haas user. But I was impressed.
[03:21:20] <willeo6709> the acramatic 2100's have 2048 work coordinate offsets
[03:22:08] <willeo6709> divided between 64 multi offsets @ 32 work offsets per, so could run 64 programs x 32 parts each simultaneously
[03:22:13] <willeo6709> now thats overkill
[03:22:53] <KimK> A large number of fixtures can come in handy when you've got a fixturing plate full of small parts, easier to number the plate and adjust accordingly. Maybe other situations too.
[03:23:27] <willeo6709> but all cnc i have worked with, fanuc, mazak, acramatic, dynapath, mitsubishi, all had a table for work coordinate offsets where you could see them like a tool table.... just threw me emc did not
[03:23:45] <KimK> A fixturing plate... or pallet, etc, if you're fortunate, lol
[03:24:16] <KimK> Yeah, we should probably have that. Be patient, I'm sure it will be coming along soon.
[03:24:49] <Valen> mention it on the list
[03:24:53] <Valen> make a case for it
[03:25:16] <Valen> the offsets are saved, you may just need a front end for it
[03:25:45] <KimK> Maybe it will be discussed in Wichita. Maybe I'll get to be there.
[03:26:16] <willeo6709> sounds like just an axis display adjustment for the table,,, not sure whats involved in adding more offsets but i'd help if there something i could do
[03:26:39] <willeo6709> not a linux guru but blown up every windows machine i have ever owned
[03:26:49] <willeo6709> and learned all i know fixing them
[03:27:09] <willeo6709> may even try to get to wichita
[03:27:11] <KimK> Haha, how long have you been a Linux user? And how long an EMC user?
[03:27:27] <willeo6709> had my first linux box for a month now
[03:27:46] <willeo6709> have (4) cincinnati vmc's with 2100's pissing me off
[03:27:52] <KimK> Excellent! And how are you liking Linux? (And EMC, of course)
[03:27:53] <willeo6709> going to set one up in emc2
[03:28:12] <willeo6709> have mesa cards on a panel but not at the machine yet
[03:28:29] <willeo6709> things i like about the 2100's but i am in love with my fanuc 16's
[03:28:37] <willeo6709> ii never work on the fanucs
[03:29:10] <willeo6709> but the issue you can't run from file server like i do on the vmc's
[03:29:20] <willeo6709> as the fanucs are plc base
[03:29:32] <willeo6709> the 2100 is winnt
[03:29:36] <KimK> Re: Mesa cards: That's OK, take your time, make sure it's (mostly) working on the bench before you go out and bother the machine.
[03:29:59] <KimK> * KimK is a big Mesa fan
[03:30:45] <KimK> You know about the PLC in EMC2, right? ClassicLadder?
[03:31:27] <willeo> sotrying to learn as much as I can about halfile and ladder etc on the bench in office
[03:31:45] <willeo> ladder won't be bad and is my preference for troubleshooting
[03:32:03] <willeo> i had to edit ladderin the fanucs to do what i wanted
[03:32:43] <skinnypup> what was that about cant run from the file server?
[03:33:28] <skinnypup> oic never mind
[03:33:30] <willeo> fanuc 16-ma's i have won't run from file server, will run rs232 dripfeed, but too slow for high speed contouring
[03:34:04] <willeo> acramatic 2100's i have run well from server but are winnt based
[03:34:22] <willeo> here is hoping linux beats winnt in the long run
[03:34:41] <willeo> but looking good so far
[03:34:44] <skinnypup> already has for me..
[03:35:49] <willeo> once you figure out the syntax its not bad so far, but i am learning linux and emc simultaneously,, so i am a bit tarded on some things
[03:35:53] <KimK> willeo: I think I asked you once where you are located, but I forgot. Please remind me.
[03:36:01] <skinnypup> Welcome to linux ;)
[03:36:01] <willeo> wapello iowa
[03:36:12] <willeo> 1 hour south of davenport on us 61
[03:36:25] <KimK> OK, so, eastern Iowa?
[03:36:32] <willeo> southeast yes
[03:37:47] <KimK> OK. I'm in Minneapolis now, but I run between Ames, Des Moines, Osceola, and Omaha (NE).
[03:38:04] <willeo> i see
[03:39:03] <KimK> If I'm ever heading to eastern Iowa, I'll try to let you know. You might come to Wichita?
[03:41:16] <willeo> maybe, just looked it up, mapquest says 8 hours 12 minutes
[03:42:06] <KimK> If you can make it, I'm sure you'd enjoy it. Bring a project!
[03:42:09] <willeo> i can get running on the verticals with emc as i in most cases, but if i ever want to do a hmc i'd want what i want
[03:43:08] <willeo> and i see a lot of places where i could use emc in special machines if could configure it to it
[03:46:39] <willeo> anybody programming their emc control with gibbscam?
[06:01:18] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as bootnecklad
[13:19:05] <skunkworks> so... the B axis drive train has quite a bit of backlash. They did have a resolver mounted right at the tables... what would be a good way to handle it?
[13:20:35] <skunkworks> initally we thought we would just put a velocity mode amp on the input shaft and just see how it works.
[13:21:54] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, so you have a feedback device attached to the motor (or at least before the backlash) and another one on the table?
[13:22:20] <skunkworks> yes - I do have access to the one on the table.
[13:22:37] <SWPadnos> the important thing is having two of them :)
[13:22:49] <skunkworks> (either buying a resolver->quad conveter or changing it to an encoder.)
[13:23:12] <SWPadnos> if you have velocity output from the motor, then a velocity mode amp may work OK using dual PID, like on the G&L
[13:23:19] <skunkworks> so - I could do what you guys did on stuarts machine? I suppose I could
[13:23:39] <SWPadnos> the table drives I only, and everything else is from the motor shaft
[13:24:10] <SWPadnos> but that may not work if there's a lot of backlash, I don't remember what the situation was on the G&L
[13:24:51] <skunkworks> I guess it depends on how much backlash is. It only has to position it close enought to get it to set back on it coupling. (5 degree incremements)
[13:27:48] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/tablerotation.JPG
[13:28:29] <SWPadnos> those are big
[13:29:00] <skunkworks> :)
[13:30:53] <elmo42> when complete that will be one solid machine, skunkworks
[13:32:21] <skunkworks> Yes - it was built very well.
[13:34:03] <elmo42> have you found any other machines you can scavenge parts from? or is everything pretty much there just needs the electrical aspect
[13:34:26] <skunkworks> we have 2 identical ones - we are using one for parts.
[13:34:57] <elmo42> then sending what is left over to my place? ;)
[13:35:12] <elmo42> I need a nice solid base to construct my machine with.
[13:35:51] <skunkworks> heh
[13:37:11] <skunkworks> I would be very suprised if we could get parts from g&l anymore. (g&l bought out k&t)
[13:37:23] <skunkworks> we did get some manuals from them about 15 years ago.
[13:37:24] <elmo42> what would shipping be to Toronto... arm+leg+big toe?
[13:37:36] <skunkworks> +new born
[13:37:48] <elmo42> you can have that one... LOL
[13:38:04] <skunkworks> the table is 6 ton
[13:38:14] <elmo42> DAMN
[13:38:33] <SWPadnos> argh. Toronto. They've got to warn people about that marathon
[13:38:47] <skunkworks> heh
[13:39:59] <elmo42> silly marathons... it occurred when another main artery was under construction! talk about very poor planning.
[13:40:09] <elmo42> the city basically shut down for 5hrs.
[13:40:51] <SWPadnos> I know. we were staying at the Hilton Garden Inn (around Jarvis and Dundas), and getting to the airport yesterday was a challenge
[13:41:06] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: how did it go?
[13:41:24] <SWPadnos> I should have gone to the Don Valley Parkway, but the only signs were northbound, and I knew that was the wrong direction
[13:41:32] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, it went fine
[13:41:38] <skunkworks> good
[13:41:42] <SWPadnos> or at least as well as an 18 hour work day can ever be :)
[13:41:53] <skunkworks> yikes
[13:42:12] <SWPadnos> (19.5 if you count travel time, 2:30 AM to 10:00 PM)
[13:42:27] <elmo42> North would have been the correct way to go.
[13:42:46] <elmo42> take DVP North to 401 then West to 409 and it takes you right into the airport.
[13:42:56] <SWPadnos> yeah, we ended up taking Bay north and eventually getting on Allen Road, to 401
[13:43:05] <SWPadnos> yeah, that would have ended up being better
[13:43:38] <SWPadnos> next time we'll stay near the airport again, it's less expensive and not much more of a hassle getting to the downtown (since we were working at odd hours)
[13:44:00] <elmo42> I believe North on DVP was under construction, though... that was part of my rant ;) Yonge and DVP both closed. One for a silly marathon.
[13:44:17] <SWPadnos> oh, good thing I didn't try to use Yonge then :)
[13:46:02] <elmo42> silly Toronto. in the 60's they were going to extend that Allen Expressway right downtown but the leftist people are like 'people should use public transit'. As if. Now there is only ONE main artery downtown, the DVP.
[13:46:18] <elmo42> what a way to move a few million people every day.
[13:46:26] <elmo42> short sighted, that's all
[13:46:33] <SWPadnos> yeah. traffic has been a bit weird there
[13:47:16] <SWPadnos> we've mostly been on the west side, but a couple of shoots have been downtown (the ACC this time, at some university the last time)
[13:49:18] <elmo42> my wife and I attended the Toronto Symphony Orchestra on Saturday. Driving to it was ridiculous, at best. Much worse then 'normal'.
[13:49:40] <SWPadnos> huh. at the Sony center?
[13:49:43] <SWPadnos> or centre
[13:49:49] <skunkworks> heh
[13:50:19] <SWPadnos> elmo42, know anywhere to get good Chinese food in Toronto?
[13:50:25] <SWPadnos> we seem to hit the bad places
[13:58:01] <elmo42> dude, there are millions of places :P
[13:58:20] <elmo42> for REAL chinese go on Spadina and Dundas area.
[13:58:24] <elmo42> that is authentic stuff.
[13:58:36] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's where we were
[13:58:43] <elmo42> you will see the meat hanging in the windows. ducks, pigs, you name it
[13:58:48] <SWPadnos> yep
[13:59:07] <SWPadnos> soon kum suk or something (blue sign) - it wasn't very good
[13:59:40] <SWPadnos> damn. I need to find that receipt too
[13:59:46] <elmo42> interesting.
[14:11:36] <MattyMatt> mm long tail pig
[14:12:01] <MattyMatt> long tail pig with claws
[14:14:52] <elmo42> do pigs have claws?
[14:15:01] <elmo42> more like hooves.
[14:15:31] <MattyMatt> special pig. climbs trees and hunts birds
[14:15:57] <pcw_home> SWPadnos: same 3x20 is used for 7I68 and 6I68 - MB version with PCIE fed through MotherBoard connector
[14:15:58] <pcw_home> 7I68 can use non MB version (turned 180)
[14:16:05] <elmo42> ah, South American pigs. Only found in very remote areas in Brazil
[14:16:48] <MattyMatt> no we find them fresh. very local. this one walk past kitchen door making wild "meowwww" call
[14:17:57] <elmo42> yes, I know that kind. the furry claw footed pig
[14:22:22] <MattyMatt> if you build more roads, they just fill up
[14:24:04] <MattyMatt> http://img24.imageshack.us/i/busrender4.png/ London Transport ftw
[14:24:44] <MattyMatt> you can get vomiting drunk while you're downtown that way
[14:26:15] <MattyMatt> they reserve special busses for night bus duty, so the commuters don't get puke on their workclothes :)
[14:33:06] <elmo42> same here
[14:33:29] <elmo42> we have the 'vomit comet' buses, since our silly subway stops running at 2am, when the bars close.
[14:34:02] <elmo42> sorta makes sense, though. don't want thousands of drunken people falling onto the tracks
[14:40:52] <MattyMatt> yeah, it traumatises the train driver :)
[14:48:52] <skunkworks> how does backlash comp get applied - when an axis is homed - does it know to apply it in the oposite direction of the move?
[14:48:55] <Connor2> Connor2 is now known as Connor
[14:51:56] <SWPadnos> I think it's applied whenever you reverse direction, so "home" would be wherever the table ends up (detected by a sensor), and if the next move goes the other way, then the backlash will be added to that move(or joint position)
[14:52:24] <cradek> interesting question. seems to me it wouldn't matter, as long as it's consistent?
[14:52:39] <skunkworks> maybe
[14:52:41] <skunkworks> :)
[14:53:05] <SWPadnos> I don't know how or if backlash is dealt with during homing, if you use a homing setup that reverses direction one or more times
[14:53:16] <SWPadnos> I suspect it's not used
[14:53:49] <skunkworks> I guess I am going to just try it and see ;)
[14:54:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm. which makes me wonder if the coordinated planner actually knows which way the free planner was moving last ...
[14:54:07] <skunkworks> I got my 7i48 today - yay
[14:54:17] <elmo42> when my machines home the B axis they rotate the opposite way first to eliminate backlash (and trip the other sensor to give it an idea of where it is in relation to home)
[14:57:08] <skunkworks> boy - the 7i48 has a ton of connectors ;)
[14:57:32] <SWPadnos> same number as a 5i20 :)
[14:57:43] <SWPadnos> well, sort of anyway
[14:57:57] <SWPadnos> are those pluggable headers or are they drrectly soldered in?
[14:58:22] <SWPadnos> ah, pluggable (says so right in the description)
[15:02:51] <skunkworks> pluggable.
[15:03:02] <SWPadnos> yep. saw that :)
[15:03:04] <skunkworks> what are the little tabby things for that come with it.
[15:03:05] <skunkworks> ?
[15:03:17] <SWPadnos> tabby things?
[15:03:19] <SWPadnos> cats?
[15:03:34] <skunkworks> ah - I think to key the plugs so that they only go in one spot
[15:03:42] <skunkworks> neat
[15:03:53] <SWPadnos> ah. yeah, that kind of header can be keyed
[15:04:18] <SWPadnos> too bad the pinout doesn't group encoder+analog together for each axis
[15:04:33] <SWPadnos> so you could use a single 12-pin plug per motor
[15:04:51] <skunkworks> oh well.
[15:04:52] <skunkworks> ;)
[15:04:58] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:05:21] <skunkworks> I would solder them in for the price that peter sells these things. ;)
[15:05:25] <SWPadnos> you can use two 4-pin plugs in the 8-pin header though, you might want to think about that if you foresee wanting to test motors on different outputs
[15:05:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:05:48] <The_Ball> skunkworks, haha, first thing I asked when I got the 5i20 was what are these tabby things
[15:06:22] <skunkworks> :)
[15:06:48] <SWPadnos> I'm betting this would be the part: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.keywords=ED1962
[15:07:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe that link won't work
[15:07:05] <SWPadnos> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=ED1962&x=0&y=0
[15:07:18] <skunkworks> looks right
[15:07:27] <SWPadnos> oh, you'd want the right angle version though
[15:07:34] <SWPadnos> that one has the wires sticking up
[15:07:41] <skunkworks> rigth
[15:07:43] <SWPadnos> (with the headers on that board)
[15:07:50] <skunkworks> I was looking that the other end.
[15:07:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:11:19] <SWPadnos> ah, here it is (no photo though)http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ED2896-ND
[15:30:04] <awallin> MAKE magazine is linking here on their blog: http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCTurnersCube.html
[15:32:18] <tom3p> i was thinking of using 8 and 4 pins connectors, 8 for encoder 4 for control
[15:32:23] <skunkworks> is that the right link?
[15:32:57] <tom3p> i got the 8 pin with the ta version, just removed 2 of the and spaced the others out waiting on the 4's
[15:33:06] <tom3p> worked for me, with pix too
[15:33:51] <skunkworks> I guess I am not understanding. MAKE magazine linking here... and the link is to cnccookbook.com
[15:33:53] <tom3p> tho peter used a different brand, should fit ok (ctx?)
[15:34:08] <tom3p> nm ( i was speaking of the cnxr link )
[15:48:12] <Paragon39> Hello All...
[15:49:49] <Paragon39> I have a machine vice that tends to lift the work to be held when tightning the jaws. Is there anything that can be done to resolve this?
[15:50:28] <tom3p> tap it down, there's a different sound when it's down ( use safe hammer ;)
[15:52:13] <Paragon39> Tried that but it still seems to lift. I was under the impression that the vice should clamp down on the work...? Here is a picture of the same model vice for reference http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Abwood-6in-plain-machine-vice-2077-/190345396717?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c517841ed
[15:52:24] <awallin> here, there, everywhere... bbl.
[16:09:30] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[16:41:41] <tom3p> Paragon39, you could look to see the jaw faces were parallel, or shim the tops so they forced work down /____\------|
[17:02:09] <Paragon39> tom3p: Good idea... Ill check the jaws. I haven't had the vice long. I may need to check the gib also. Thanks for your input!
[17:30:25] <JT-Work> Paragon39: an old vise like that just has a plain movable jaw and won't pull down as you apply pressure like a Kurt vise will
[17:49:16] <cradek> yes on those (and also often on a kurt) is tighten - tap - tighten - tap - tighten - tap
[17:49:42] <cradek> I meant the clamping procedure on those...
[17:54:21] <tom3p> it may help to put a dowel or parallel under the work ( different area of jaw )
[18:01:36] <skunkworks> guts of a curt http://www.kurtworkholding.com/images/DL600C-section-view.jpg
[18:02:29] <Paragon39> Thanks for the advice chaps... I was finding that when putting two parallels under the work and then tightening the parrellels become loose as the work lifted. But I will try Cradeks sugested method and see how it goes.
[18:03:26] <cradek> Paragon39: yep that's what the orange hammer is for.
[18:03:54] <Paragon39> LOL... ;-)
[18:03:58] <cradek> you should be able to get the parallels to feel tight if you smack it after tightening
[18:11:20] <Paragon39> I wish the 7i43 card i orded on the 8th would show up! It's been 10 days now.
[18:12:16] <andypugh> Paragon39: Where are you?
[18:12:22] <Paragon39> UK
[18:12:33] <andypugh> Where in the UK?
[18:12:48] <Paragon39> South East London
[18:13:36] <andypugh> I could _conceivably_ lend you mine, but it would leave my machine not working. I don't expect to be using it in the next week or two.
[18:15:53] <Paragon39> andypugh: Thanks very much for the offer. It's very kind and generous of you. But to be honest I don't really mind waiting I'm just a little concerned that it may have got lost in post as the invoice arrived last wednesday.
[18:16:44] <tom3p> lead shot hammer, meant to seat things in clamps. the lead beads make the blow 'dead'
[18:16:55] <Paragon39> andypugh: How long did it take for your card to arrive after ordering?
[18:17:15] <Paragon39> tom3p: I look into that...
[18:17:15] <andypugh> It might be worth contacting Fedex. Apart from anything else they charge a £10 fee for handling the customs/vat transaction which they call an "Advance Fee". That might be reduced if you pay them in advance so they can't claim tobe lending you money.
[18:17:48] <andypugh> Paragon39: Halfords sell dead-blow hammers (At least I think that is where mine came from)
[18:18:49] <andypugh> And my last Mesa order took about 8 weeks. However it was a slightly unusual order involving some hardware that didn't really exist at the time of ordering.
[18:18:53] <Paragon39> andypugh: Does the USPS use Fedex for international post? I ask because it was sent via USPS.
[18:19:22] <andypugh> Mesa normally put a tracking number on the invoice, have you tried using that?
[18:22:51] <Paragon39> I've checked the tracking number the last entry was on the 8th when it left Oakland. Fingers crossed it will arive this week.
[18:24:06] <Paragon39> andypugh: Thanks again for the offer! :-)
[18:24:16] <Paragon39> Back in bit...
[18:30:19] <JT-Work> Paragon39: even on my Kurt wannabe vises I lightly close the jaw then tap the piece down with a plastic hammer till the parallels are tight then finish tightening the vise
[18:30:53] <motioncontrol> Good evening at all. emc have a g code command for mirror fuction ?
[18:31:11] <cradek> no, emc2 has rotation but not mirror
[18:31:12] <skunkworks> motioncontrol: no.
[18:31:45] <tom3p> JT-Work, ymmv but i never tighten after the parallel doesnt move/or the sound is no longer hollow
[18:31:49] <motioncontrol> ok , some program example for mirror ?
[18:32:17] <cradek> motioncontrol: sorry, emc2 does not mirror
[18:32:20] <Paragon39> Im finding I really need to wack the workpiece where as on a smaller vice I had it require such force.
[18:32:48] <cradek> Paragon39: probably a different design of vise? some are much worse than others
[18:32:57] <tom3p> heh the BFH method
[18:33:00] <motioncontrol> cradek, ok thanks for info
[18:33:35] <andypugh> motioncontrol: In a text editor, replace all instances of "X-" with "flibble" then all instances of "X" with "X-" then all instances of "flibble" with "X" . The choice of "flibble" is arbitrary.
[18:33:40] <tom3p> motioncontrol, you may have some luck mirroring the cad infor THEN posting the output to get gcode
[18:34:31] <cradek> andypugh: that will probably only work correctly with G1 moves
[18:35:04] <andypugh> Yeah, you need to swap G2 and G3 too, don't you?
[18:35:06] <Paragon39> Right... I'ts quite an old vice but if I can get this issue addressed it could a great old vice... I'll try the method you mentioned cradek tomorow tap / tighten / tap etc...
[18:35:30] <cradek> andypugh: you'd have to do a lot to get it right in the general case
[18:36:08] <cradek> g1 x[atan[3]/[2]]
[18:36:41] <cradek> actually now that we have unary minus that would work out
[18:36:47] <andypugh> Wasn't unary minus added in a recent patch?
[18:36:55] <cradek> yes
[18:37:11] <cradek> so maybe arcs are the only complexity
[18:39:22] <andypugh> Anyone want a genuine Kurt Doublelock vice? The drawbacks are (1) It's in Basildon and (2) It has no jaws.
[18:39:49] <Duckie> hi
[18:40:04] <Duckie> or hallo
[18:40:32] <andypugh> Hi Duckie. Did you get anywhere with tool changing?
[18:41:06] <Duckie> wel stil working on it, got some problem with my cordinate
[18:41:19] <JT-Work> Paragon39: can you check the clearance of the movable jaw to see if it is too much?
[18:41:45] <Duckie> my z-as as switch is (aboven)
[18:41:59] <andypugh> Paragon39: What make of vice is it?
[18:42:42] <Duckie> and when i go below with the z-as he show -45
[18:42:47] <Duckie> not 0
[18:42:47] <andypugh> Duckie: Generally Z runs from 0 at the top of stroke to -200 (say) at the bottom.
[18:43:05] <Paragon39> andypugh: It's an abwood 6 inch vice. Similiar to this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Abwood-6in-plain-machine-vice-2077-/190345396717?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c517841ed
[18:43:39] <Paragon39> JT-Work: I'll do that... Thanks
[18:44:10] <andypugh> But that doesn't matter because you would touch-off the top of the work to be Z=0, then anything above the surface shows as positive, and below as negative. You almost never work in the "machine coordinates" always in "work cordinates"
[18:44:22] <Duckie> the switch over the shaft, stopping (hope correct english)
[18:44:51] <Duckie> correct? i can see my swicht is active (led pvhcp)
[18:45:06] <andypugh> Paragon39: Abwood are quality vices. I would not be at all surprised to find that the sliding dovetail has an adjustable Gib of some sort.
[18:45:17] <Duckie> but normal must it stop, if he go over the switch?...
[18:46:16] <Paragon39> andypugh: It does indeed have a gib strip. I have ajusted it and it has help some what.
[18:47:21] <andypugh> Depending on the wear, it might need a bit of adjustment of the slides (with a scraper) to have equal clearance at all positions. View it as a machine slide like any other.
[18:47:45] <andypugh> Sorry Duckie, I am afraid that I don't really understand what you are asking.
[18:48:17] <Duckie> the switch (z,x,y) are for stop the moving motor
[18:48:32] <cradek> limit switch?
[18:48:39] <Duckie> my swicth get over the limiet and stop not
[18:48:43] <JT-Work> andypugh: my BP series 1 is like that on the X if I take out all the slop in the middle the ends are too tight
[18:49:05] <Duckie> only i see the led is active on my sidebare (right side pchcp)
[18:49:20] <andypugh> Is the limit switch connected in the HAL file?
[18:49:47] <andypugh> (to the axis.0.pos-limit-in pin, I think)
[18:51:57] <cradek> JT-Work: all bridgeports are like that - I think they were made that way :-)
[18:52:06] <JT-Work> LOL
[18:52:14] <andypugh> Duckie: Can you put your config files at www.pastebin.ca ? The URL you posted yesterday didn't work, and I am not sure I can deal with .7z files either.
[18:52:16] <JT-Work> or got that way real fast
[18:53:15] <Duckie> well i see the net home-x <= parport.0.pin-10-in-not
[18:53:15] <Duckie> net home-y <= parport.0.pin-11-in-not
[18:53:15] <Duckie> net home-z <= parport.0.pin-12-in-not
[18:53:15] <Duckie> http://pastebin.ca/1966054
[19:01:32] <andypugh> Duckie: You have a bunch of links missing from that HAL file.
[19:02:09] <andypugh> The "net" command can be used in two ways:
[19:03:01] <andypugh> "net signal pin" is one way, and links a signal to a pin. The signal name is something you can choose freely, but the pin name needs to be a real pin that exists in the HAL.
[19:03:36] <andypugh> "net signal pin" doesn't do much without another "net signal pin2" somewhere, which links the two pins together.
[19:04:26] <Duckie> ok..
[19:04:35] <Duckie> can you fix it
[19:04:36] <andypugh> So, your HAL file creates home-x, home-y and home-z signals, but does not link them to the axis home/limit pins. (presumably they _are_ linked to the LEDs in the postgui.hal file.)
[19:05:13] <Duckie> wait i send you hole folder
[19:05:37] <andypugh> Well, to address your immediate problem: change max-z in line 98 to z-home.
[19:06:26] <andypugh> I am assuming that one p-port pin does home and both limits for each axis?
[19:06:34] <Duckie> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NW1TE69B
[19:06:40] <Duckie> the folder
[19:07:11] <andypugh> I don't have a megaupload account, and it won't give me the file.
[19:07:20] <Duckie> 1 limit switch x-axis
[19:07:23] <Duckie> click on free
[19:07:34] <Duckie> and wait 10 sec and you can download it
[19:08:29] <andypugh> You only have a limit on the X axis?
[19:09:06] <andypugh> In that case, add this line to the hal file in the [axis_0] section.
[19:09:07] <Duckie> and 1 on the y and 1 z
[19:09:51] <Duckie> download the zip file
[19:10:00] <Duckie> (link above)
[19:10:38] <andypugh> net home-x => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-in axis.0.neg.lim-in
[19:11:14] <andypugh> sorry, net home-x => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in axis.0.neg.lim-sw-in
[19:11:29] <andypugh> And similarly for the other axes
[19:12:18] <andypugh> I am sorry to say that I can't be bothered messing about with megaupload. I like to help people solve their own problems, but that doesn't go a lot further than pontificating on IRC.
[19:13:56] <Duckie> ok http://pastebin.ca/1966081
[19:14:02] <Duckie> hall
[19:14:33] <Duckie> http://pastebin.ca/1966083
[19:14:34] <Duckie> ini
[19:15:30] <andypugh> You should have a postgui.hal too
[19:16:20] <Duckie> http://pastebin.ca/1966085
[19:16:28] <Duckie> custom_postgui.hal
[19:20:47] <andypugh> Yes, pins 10, 11 and 12 _only_ go to the LEDs, not to the axis limits.
[19:21:15] <andypugh> Adding the line I typed above, and similar ones for the other axes should do the trick.
[19:21:52] <Duckie> net home-x => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in axis.0.neg.lim-sw-in
[19:22:09] <Duckie> replace : >>>>net home-x <= parport.0.pin-10-in-not
[19:22:11] <Duckie> ?
[19:22:11] <andypugh> Someone has also done something rather odd in treating pin-in-not and pin-in as seperate inputs.
[19:22:33] <andypugh> No, add the line.
[19:22:58] <Duckie> ok
[19:23:15] <andypugh> net home-x <= parport...... creates a signal called home-x controlled by the parport.
[19:23:30] <andypugh> net home-x => ...... sends that signal to the other pins.
[19:24:19] <Duckie> ok
[19:24:23] <andypugh> (Actually, the arrow is optional, EMC2 chooses the signal direction based on whether the pins are inputs or outputs, it ignores the arrows, they are just for people.
[19:24:59] <Duckie> more error? in the code
[19:25:23] <andypugh> The important point is that the first word after "net" is a freely-chosen signal name, and nothing happens unless those signals link different pins together
[19:25:52] <andypugh> Your postgui.hal file shows lots of evidence of tinkering, there is a lot of stuff disabled by # symbols.
[19:26:53] <Duckie> and my aire pin ? correct
[19:27:53] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that you could delete the "loadrt thread...." line in the postgui.hal
[19:28:17] <andypugh> aire pin?
[19:28:31] <Duckie> eu for the toolchange
[19:28:45] <Duckie> compresses air
[19:29:01] <andypugh> (going back a way, I guess that "shaft" was a translation of "axis" which makes some sense, almost :-)
[19:29:11] <andypugh> Ah, yes.
[19:29:17] <andypugh> Which pin is that?
[19:30:31] <Duckie> i think 9
[19:30:38] <Duckie> doesn't see on my draw
[19:30:47] <Duckie> o wait i send my draw
[19:31:34] <motioncontrol> excuse a question. on git a read G92 offset should not move the tool touchoff fixture. at right write master. when is write master the patch go in next version the emc2.2.6 ? or no ?
[19:34:35] <cradek> new features in master, including the new tool touch off to fixture, will not go in any release branch until emc 2.5
[19:34:57] <Duckie> http://img202.imageshack.us/i/37996697.png/
[19:35:01] <Duckie> http://img2.imageshack.us/i/96529060.png/
[19:35:06] <Duckie> http://img840.imageshack.us/i/88096613.png/
[19:35:11] <Duckie> http://img69.imageshack.us/i/73484521.png/
[19:35:16] <Duckie> that is all
[19:38:29] <andypugh> <fires up iPhone dutch-english translation app>
[19:42:02] <andypugh> At a guess, pin 8 looks to be the air valve/
[19:42:22] <Duckie> that is my spindel
[19:42:33] <andypugh> Ah
[19:42:36] <Duckie> wait i send also my pin list (dutch/english)
[19:43:25] <andypugh> http://img69.imageshack.us/f/73484521.png/
[19:43:32] <andypugh> Means nothing at all to me.
[19:44:29] <andypugh> Well, when you find out which pin it is you need to add a line:
[19:44:29] <Duckie> http://pastebin.ca/1966123
[19:46:09] <Duckie> draw is for my toolchange button i think and emergency stop
[19:46:19] <Duckie> i think that
[19:47:51] <andypugh> Are you sure that it is possible to control the air from the PC?
[19:49:10] <Duckie> yes i think maybe I forgot to put the pin wire
[19:49:21] <andypugh> Try using this tester here to see which one it is.
[19:49:22] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[19:49:55] <andypugh> Then it is:
[19:50:10] <JT-Work> heh I forgot about that little tester
[19:50:42] <andypugh> net air motion-digital-out-00 => parport.0.pin-14-out
[19:50:50] <andypugh> (Or whatever pin it is)
[19:51:24] <Duckie> hall? or ini
[19:54:06] <andypugh> Hal
[19:54:37] <andypugh> Then M62 and M63 should turn the air on and off.
[19:58:21] <Duckie> ok
[20:02:19] <Duckie> ok switch ok?
[20:02:57] <Duckie> ok air ? info..
[20:04:25] <andypugh> "air" is just a name I chose for the air control
[20:09:49] <Duckie> ok
[20:10:51] <Duckie> i got also a problem with the spindle
[20:10:59] <Duckie> the max speed is 100
[20:11:06] <Duckie> and not 2500 rmp
[20:11:10] <Duckie> see draw
[20:11:17] <andypugh> That seems a little slow
[20:15:26] <andypugh> It looks like PC8 needs to be a PWM signal.
[20:17:04] <Duckie> yes it is pWM ,
[20:17:25] <Duckie> are wrong in my hall?
[20:18:01] <andypugh> Lines 33, 34 and 35 seem wrong.
[20:18:13] <andypugh> pwm-freq = 0 is very odd.
[20:19:12] <Duckie> very odd.??
[20:20:28] <andypugh> Well, a PWM with a frequency of zero makes no sense
[20:20:48] <andypugh> try pwm-freq = 1000
[20:21:42] <andypugh> Though I am not sure what the pwm component does with a zero frequency demand.
[20:22:01] <SWPadnos> PWM frequency 0 may select PDM mode
[20:22:14] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure
[20:23:09] <Duckie> see my draw for spindel motor and pin
[20:24:21] <SWPadnos> yep, the software pwmgen switches to PDM mode when freq == 0
[20:24:28] <andypugh> Ah, yes. PDM mode it is. That should be fine then
[20:26:36] <Duckie> bu what can the problem my power source?
[20:27:01] <andypugh> Possibly.
[20:27:56] <andypugh> Is it really only 100rpm, or is that what the spindle speed display says?
[20:28:24] <Duckie> i think it is 100rpm
[20:28:30] <Duckie> can lower..
[20:29:01] <andypugh> You might need to look at the signal on the X1 X2 and X3 terminals.
[20:29:47] <andypugh> There is an opto-isolator and a resistor/capacitor network that converts the PWM signal on pin-8 to a voltage for the motor drive.
[20:30:08] <andypugh> You need to see what the output is, preferably with an oscilloscope.
[20:30:14] <andypugh> What is the drive?
[20:30:37] <andypugh> If it is a VFD then it might be that the parameters inside the drive are set wrongly.
[20:31:17] <Duckie> wait
[20:32:16] <andypugh> There is a sign of something interesting in the postgui.hal file, it looks like it had some hal code to drive a VFD which has been commented out. (and two lines have been combined in to one, too)
[20:33:10] <Duckie> eurotherm drives spindel SSD drives 507
[20:33:37] <Duckie> solution?
[20:34:25] <andypugh> Well, see what voltage is going to the speed control terminal, and if it is a nice 0-5V then you need to alter the drive parameters to suit.
[20:34:44] <andypugh> (which probably needs the manual)
[20:35:55] <andypugh> Ah, no, wait: That is a DC motor control
[20:36:56] <andypugh> It has max and min speed potentiometers somewhere, have a fiddle with those.
[20:37:10] <andypugh> Ah, no, that won't work
[20:37:48] <andypugh> If emc thinks that the max speed is 100, and the spindle is turning at 100, the issue is with emc2
[20:38:11] <andypugh> What is "spindle override" set to on the EMC2 screen?
[20:38:33] <andypugh> It could be that simle.
[20:39:34] <Duckie> yes?
[20:39:45] <Duckie> eu..
[20:39:57] <andypugh> Spindle Override on the EMC2 screen?
[20:40:07] <Duckie> no idea? where can i see it
[20:40:16] <andypugh> Middle left hand side?
[20:41:51] <Duckie> eu ?
[20:42:42] <andypugh> Your max velocities seem particularly low (in the INI file) by the way.
[20:43:24] <Duckie> yes how can i change it (next question)
[20:44:02] <andypugh> How do you change what?
[20:44:13] <andypugh> You can just move the spindle speed slider.
[20:44:35] <Duckie> velocities
[20:44:46] <andypugh> Edit the numbers in the ini file.
[20:44:52] <andypugh> But that can wait, I guess
[20:44:54] <Duckie> ok , back to the spindel
[20:45:23] <Duckie> spindel speed 0->2500rpm
[20:47:08] <Duckie> Spindle Override on the EMC2 screen? no
[20:48:13] <Duckie> when i click on the arraw button it works (but not fast =low speed)
[20:48:42] <andypugh> http://imagebin.ca/view/JButnf9Y.html
[20:49:32] <Duckie> yes is see 100%
[20:49:36] <andypugh> Ah
[20:49:38] <Duckie> for my machine
[20:49:54] <andypugh> Hang on, what happens if you click the + button again?
[20:50:13] <andypugh> Or, better still, go to the MDI tab and type "M3 S2500"
[20:50:15] <Duckie> PS: my machine is ad school
[20:50:22] <Duckie> now i'am home
[20:50:24] <SWPadnos> spindle override and spindle speed aren't the same thing
[20:51:05] <andypugh> SWPadnos: I was trying to work out why a 2500rpm request would be 100rpm.
[20:51:05] <SWPadnos> spindle speed changes the commanded speed, override makes the actual speed some fraction of the commanded speed
[20:51:09] <Duckie> but when click on + (3 time) it works slow
[20:51:10] <SWPadnos> ah
[20:51:25] <andypugh> What happens if you use M3 S2500?
[20:51:26] <Duckie> ad when i click 6time (max)
[20:51:58] <Duckie> show 100 rmp and not 2500
[20:52:11] <andypugh> Pastebin the .xml file?
[20:52:33] <Duckie> ok
[20:53:31] <Duckie> http://pastebin.ca/1966212
[20:54:11] <SWPadnos> I believe spindle-speed-out is in RPM, not RPS
[20:54:22] <SWPadnos> but pwmgen may be scaled for RPS
[20:54:30] <SWPadnos> (or the other way around)
[20:55:25] <andypugh> spindle-cmd is liked direct to the pyvcp bar.
[20:56:01] <andypugh> But I am not sure what sets max spindle speed?
[20:56:05] <SWPadnos> it just seems like it could be a scaling error. there's an offset too, which makes it harder to see what the actual scale error is
[20:56:54] <andypugh> I think you need to see what happens with an M3 S2500 command.
[20:57:09] <andypugh> (Or S 10000000 even)
[20:57:13] <andypugh> :-)
[20:57:54] <SWPadnos> multimeters and scopes are very useful here :)
[20:58:38] <SWPadnos> the VFD may also have a different scaling, and it also depends on the hardware between the computer and the VFD (the VFD probably expects 0-10V, but a parallel port can only generate 0-5V ...)
[20:58:54] <SWPadnos> all this is based on my readong about 8.6% of your conversation though
[20:58:57] <SWPadnos> reading
[20:59:06] <Duckie> but the code is correct?
[21:00:34] <skunkworks> bbl
[21:01:13] <andypugh> As far as I can see, yes.
[21:01:45] <Duckie> and what say SWPadnos? RPM not RPS
[21:01:48] <andypugh> It might be a problem with the capacitor in that filter circuit
[21:02:50] <Duckie> but not ? RPM not RPS
[21:04:05] <andypugh> You need to see what M3 S2500 gives you.
[21:04:11] <andypugh> I have said it three times now.
[21:04:26] <Duckie> ok try it tomorow
[21:05:20] <Duckie> i have to go, thx for help
[21:05:24] <andypugh> Right, I need to get off this chat and get on with this driver.
[21:05:38] <Duckie> mybeen see you tomorrow
[21:05:41] <Duckie> thx
[21:05:42] <Duckie> bye
[21:16:47] <morficcell> morficcell is now known as morficmobile
[22:16:00] <Jymmm> PIcked one up at Lowes, it works! Fixed a string of lights that was out... http://www.lightkeeperpro.com
[22:22:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:23:41] <SWPadnos> I'll make a note
[22:31:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It's pretty slick... uses a piezo to toss a hivoltage thru the circuit
[22:32:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I can see the spark when I pull the trigger.
[22:44:29] <SWPadnos> I guess I'm just not excited much by things that have to do with Christmas lights ...
[22:44:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You dont decorate?
[22:44:52] <SWPadnos> not if I can help it
[22:45:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Bummer.
[22:45:08] <SWPadnos> Sharon often wants something up, so we have a few lights
[22:45:28] <SWPadnos> well, I'm not Christian, so it doesn't make much sense to decorate for a Christian holiday
[22:46:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, ignore the theological aspect, and just enjoy the festivities
[22:46:26] <SWPadnos> can't - I see the waste of power ;)
[22:46:34] <SWPadnos> and other resources
[22:46:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: If that doesn't do it for ya, then OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHINY BLINK LIGHTY THINGYS!!!
[22:46:39] <SWPadnos> but you can have fun with it :)
[22:46:53] <SWPadnos> ok, on that note, I think I'll go for a walk with my wife. later
[22:47:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: hastas!
[22:49:07] <Valen> I do my best to coat our tree in lights
[22:49:15] <Valen> mainly for the ooh pretty factor
[22:49:25] <Valen> missus is cutting me off from getting any more though :-<
[22:49:38] <Valen> * Valen is firmy agnostic
[22:49:43] <Valen> but ey its fun
[23:13:51] <andypugh> Can you be firmly agnostic?
[23:14:13] <andypugh> That's like being perfectly mediocre?
[23:18:37] <Jymmm> Well, either way the tool works pretty damn good if you have dead strings of lights
[23:24:45] <JT-Hardinge> say goodnight Gracie