#emc | Logs for 2010-10-13

[00:04:54] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:21:15] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, it looks like mesanet.com is down
[00:27:42] <Valen> works here
[00:33:44] <mozmck> monoprice.com is ridiculously cheap! you sure the cables don't vaporize in 3 months SWPadnos?
[00:34:23] <SWPadnos> yep, I've been using their cables for my home theater for a year or two, and we also use their XLR cables as the main trigger signal for the camera array
[00:34:43] <SWPadnos> oh, and we also have about 200 of their network cables, which have all been flawless
[00:35:30] <mozmck> wow. Are you using their cheapest HDMI cables? or the better ones?
[00:35:35] <SWPadnos> the better onces
[00:35:38] <SWPadnos> ones
[00:36:01] <mozmck> 26awg or 24?
[00:36:08] <SWPadnos> err
[00:36:52] <SWPadnos> well, I have an HH-24NCL2-05E(K) here, so I bet it's 24 AWG
[00:37:04] <Valen> mozmck: have you seen deal extreme?
[00:37:09] <mozmck> ok.
[00:37:27] <mozmck> Valen: I think I've been there, but I don't remember.
[00:37:38] <SWPadnos> oh, this is item # 4966
[00:37:41] <Valen> http://www.dealextreme.com/
[00:38:00] <SWPadnos> so yes, it's 24AWG, premium, high speed certified
[00:38:29] <mozmck> I see. I wonder how much difference there really is...
[00:38:46] <Valen> if its digital its either going to be good enough or crap
[00:38:46] <SWPadnos> no idea, but I figured for $3, I can brag about it :)
[00:38:53] <SWPadnos> no, that's not true
[00:38:59] <mozmck> heh
[00:39:04] <SWPadnos> digital is still analog, especially at high speed
[00:39:19] <mozmck> yep.
[00:39:22] <SWPadnos> (no, I don't go for the oxygen-free copper bi-wired headphone crap, that's stupid)
[00:39:42] <Valen> your not one of these "my monster audio $350 super premium dvi cable makes the colours better on my tv" people are you
[00:39:48] <SWPadnos> (no, I don't go for the oxygen-free copper bi-wired headphone crap, that's stupid)
[00:40:05] <mozmck> heh, good. What about the $200 disk you set on top your CD player to get fantasticly better sound?
[00:40:16] <Valen> so its digital, its either good enough or its crap
[00:40:23] <Valen> IE it works or you get errors
[00:40:31] <SWPadnos> a crappy cable will not necessarily cause you to lose the picture entirely, it may just cause noise to show up, or in the case of DTV, you can get blocks that don't move when they should, etc
[00:40:40] <Valen> yeah, crap
[00:40:46] <SWPadnos> sure, it's just a matter of what the errors mean in the end
[00:41:02] <SWPadnos> digital degrades differently from analog, that's the real difference
[00:41:04] <Valen> in DVI noise shows up as speckle generally
[00:41:46] <Valen> all I'm saying if the cable is good enough that the BER is basically insignificant then its "good enough"
[00:42:15] <SWPadnos> yes, that's true
[00:42:28] <SWPadnos> speckle or block errors of some sort
[00:42:33] <Valen> if its bad enough that you can notice errors theres generally going to be assloads
[00:42:55] <Valen> DVI/hdmi is uncompressed so your not going to see mpeg block errors
[00:43:12] <SWPadnos> well, DVI and HDMI don't use an error correcting code, only an error detecting code
[00:43:14] <Valen> unless the processor in your tv is doing weird mangling of the signal
[00:43:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's true
[00:43:33] <Valen> I wasn't aware they even did error detecting
[00:43:49] <SWPadnos> the 8b/10b code is slightly error detecting
[00:43:59] <SWPadnos> in that there are invalid codes, which can be detected
[00:44:05] <SWPadnos> not that the TV can do anything about it
[00:44:12] <Valen> its a parity thing then?
[00:44:30] <SWPadnos> not really. they just use 10 bits on the wire for each 8 bits of data
[00:44:47] <SWPadnos> so there are extra codes, some of which are invalid and others which are used for sync or something
[00:44:55] <SWPadnos> I think there's a wikipedia page on it
[00:45:30] <Valen> doesn't really matter
[00:45:40] <Valen> $3 hdmi cables do the same job as $250
[00:45:59] <Valen> well I spose they arent as good at getting money out of peoples pocket
[00:46:02] <SWPadnos> unless they're shit
[00:46:05] <Valen> yeah
[00:46:15] <Valen> unless they are actually a bit of shoelace
[00:46:27] <SWPadnos> the ones at Monoprie are $3.75 or $6.50, for the "crap" and "certified" versions, respectively
[00:46:57] <Valen> ahh the 10 bit thing is a line encoding, to reduce transitions
[00:47:05] <SWPadnos> so even the good ones are about 1/5 the cost of whatever they have at Best Buy
[00:47:11] <Valen> not actually error corection
[00:47:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, right. also keeps the average level at 50%
[00:47:21] <Valen> that too
[00:47:31] <SWPadnos> without using Manchester or NRZ coding
[00:47:37] <Valen> its an "error reducing coding"
[00:47:43] <SWPadnos> heh, right
[00:48:09] <Valen> doesn't actually do anything other than try to minimise errors due to the real world sucking
[00:48:12] <SWPadnos> it is interesting to note that single-link DVI actually transmits at 1.65 Gbps per color, plus the control lines
[00:48:22] <Valen> the data rate is immense
[00:48:28] <SWPadnos> which (at 10 bits/byte) is actually 495 MBytes/second
[00:48:36] <SWPadnos> plus control
[00:48:39] <SWPadnos> yeah, it is
[00:48:49] <SWPadnos> and that's one link, DL is double
[00:49:45] <SWPadnos> and a dual-link card must support the full 165 Mpixel/s rate on a single link, since the standard requires the card to use 1 link up to 165 Mpix/s, and only to turn on the second link above that
[00:50:02] <Valen> heh cool
[00:50:26] <Valen> my TV is unusually compliant I think
[00:51:02] <Valen> it'll accept 1080P at 74.9 FPS but not 75 (or whatever the cutoff is)
[00:51:08] <SWPadnos> the TV only has to support whatever data rate is needed by its highest refresh rate
[00:51:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:51:39] <Valen> need to do all sorts of triming of blanking intervals and such like to get it to fit
[00:51:57] <SWPadnos> I don't think you need blanking with DVI/HDMI
[00:52:14] <Valen> front porch and back porch and a few other areas are in it
[00:52:14] <SWPadnos> there's a separate control channel for sync
[00:52:29] <SWPadnos> yeah, there's a little bit of addressing time or something
[00:52:50] <Valen> I wanted to get 75 or something so that it would handle all the different frame rates well
[00:53:46] <SWPadnos> ah, 3x25 for PAL?
[00:53:51] <Valen> yeah
[00:54:08] <Valen> and some other multiple for NTSC stuff as well
[00:54:14] <SWPadnos> 72
[00:54:24] <Valen> something like that
[00:54:25] <SWPadnos> or 60 (for 2x30)
[00:54:32] <SWPadnos> 72 would be for film
[00:55:06] <Valen> the latest myth from avenard has patches in it to change the frame rate to match the source material anyway so I don't bother any more ;->
[00:56:22] <SWPadnos> huh, cool. I hadn't heard about him
[00:56:46] <Valen> i always spell his name wrong
[00:57:14] <Valen> also has vdpau integrated etc
[00:57:18] <Valen> http://avenard.com/media/Home.html
[00:57:39] <SWPadnos> yeah, I found it. You had it spelled right :)
[00:57:54] <Valen> first time for everything
[01:01:03] <Valen> http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/rotsnake.gif is cool btw
[01:01:45] <SWPadnos> BOING!
[01:03:19] <Valen> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.24546 including shipping ;->
[01:24:45] <juri_> whoops. forgot to take pics; too busy salvaging motorontrollers.
[01:25:58] <juri_> anyone here using a udn2916b to drive their motors?
[01:28:42] <willeo6709> hal/ classicladder questions... anybody around?
[01:32:06] <qq-> hi, where to get EMC 2.4.5 ?
[01:32:36] <cradek> willeo6709: always just ask your question - people will really give you a hard time if you ask to ask
[01:33:31] <cradek> qq-: there are lots of ways to get it - can you ask a more specific question?
[01:34:12] <qq-> something as emc2_2.4.5.tar.gz
[01:34:35] <qq-> sourceforge.net propose only _2.4.4
[01:34:54] <cradek> you can get a tarball from the git server, git.linuxcnc.org
[01:35:46] <cradek> by the tag v2.4.5, click "commit" then on the release commit click "snapshot"
[01:36:09] <willeo6709> ok, i can throw stuff on the screen, but having a hard time getting it to mean anything
[01:36:35] <willeo6709> i can throw %I001 on but can't label it in the classicladdeer window
[01:36:44] <willeo6709> in fanuc they have a cross reference list
[01:36:55] <willeo6709> in automation direct you just type it on the screen
[01:37:16] <willeo6709> in allen bradly different but similar to automation direct.
[01:37:26] <cradek> when a block is selected, you can name it by typing in the Variable field
[01:37:36] <cradek> type something like %I1
[01:37:42] <willeo6709> or do i need to do a whole bunch of typing and connect halpins in a halfile to get it to make sense before the ladder?
[01:37:51] <cradek> (in the Properties window)
[01:38:00] <willeo6709> tried the variable window but it does not remember
[01:38:15] <qq-> cradek, ah , thanks , forgeted command 'commit'
[01:38:53] <cradek> willeo6709: you can make a ladder without hooking the classicladder pins to anything yet, but to control anything real, you have to wire up the ladder IO in hal to whatever you need
[01:39:52] <cradek> willeo6709: do you have an empty ladder? we can go through making a rung together
[01:40:39] <willeo6709> yes, empty ladder
[01:40:58] <cradek> ok
[01:41:16] <cradek> if you click Modify do you get a red grid?
[01:41:35] <willeo6709> yes, red grid lines on side
[01:41:44] <willeo6709> no contact on left coil on right
[01:41:57] <willeo6709> %I0 showing properties box up
[01:41:58] <cradek> ok click -||- and then click in the top leftmost red square
[01:42:04] <willeo6709> done
[01:42:19] <cradek> properties shows %I0 for Variable?
[01:42:30] <willeo6709> blank box with apply at bottom
[01:42:43] <cradek> ok type %I0 in Variable, click Apply
[01:42:54] <willeo6709> %i0 is showing as variable
[01:43:06] <cradek> ok change it to %I0
[01:43:18] <willeo6709> can I get a human readable name to show on screen too?
[01:43:21] <cradek> (needs to be uppercase)
[01:43:26] <cradek> yes but stay with me
[01:43:40] <willeo6709> ok
[01:43:51] <willeo6709> %I0 DONE
[01:43:58] <cradek> now click the -> and click the second red square (just right of the contact) and it will fill in the line all the way across
[01:44:13] <willeo6709> LINE ALL THE WAY ACROSS ALREADY
[01:44:24] <cradek> ok now click Ok on the Editor window
[01:44:28] <willeo6709> TO A NO COIL ON OTHER SIDE %Q0
[01:44:41] <cradek> WHY ARE WE YELLING? haha
[01:45:03] <willeo6709> clicked ok
[01:45:07] <cradek> when you click Ok the red grid will disappear and you should still have the rung -||--------()-
[01:45:16] <willeo6709> vars showing, no human readbable
[01:45:26] <willeo6709> rung still here
[01:45:30] <cradek> ok check the box at the top "Display symbols"
[01:45:43] <willeo6709> it is checked
[01:45:47] <cradek> click Symbols at the bottom
[01:46:04] <cradek> at %I0 click and fill in "Symbol name" with the human readable name you want
[01:46:42] <cradek> **note** when you later connect classicladder.0.in-00 to a hal signal that signal's name will also show in this window! very handy!
[01:47:21] <cradek> you can also name %Q0 here
[01:47:25] <willeo6709> ok
[01:48:16] <cradek> ok now you have a rung. click save
[01:48:45] <cradek> ok now you have a rung. click save
[01:50:04] <willeo> and I need to sleep with the hal manual to figure out how to network the pins to actual io
[01:50:35] <cradek> now the fun part
[01:50:39] <cradek> pull up a new shell
[01:50:48] <willeo> a new what?
[01:50:51] <cradek> terminal
[01:50:54] <willeo> ok
[01:51:04] <juri_> * juri_ facepalms.
[01:51:17] <willeo> done
[01:51:43] <cradek> halcmd -kf
[01:52:18] <cradek> at the halcmd: prompt?
[01:52:33] <willeo> yes
[01:52:49] <cradek> show pin classicladder.0
[01:53:09] <cradek> notice in-00 and out-00 are both FALSE
[01:53:18] <cradek> we're going to turn on the input to your rung
[01:53:36] <cradek> setp classicladder.0.in-00 true
[01:53:44] <cradek> (setp means "set pin")
[01:55:39] <cradek> you with me?
[01:56:08] <willeo> yes
[01:56:15] <willeo> worked once got syntax right
[01:56:23] <cradek> the rung turned blue, right?
[01:56:26] <willeo> ok, why would I do this?
[01:56:39] <willeo> rung turned purplish
[01:56:43] <cradek> ok
[01:56:47] <willeo> from black
[01:56:51] <cradek> show pin classicladder.0
[01:57:06] <cradek> now notice out-00 is TRUE
[01:57:26] <willeo> ok, thats how you force io
[01:57:34] <cradek> we set in-00 (the contact), out-00 turns true (the coil) - that is your rung's output
[01:57:45] <willeo> ok
[01:57:46] <cradek> you'll hook in-00 and out-00 to your hardware etc.
[01:58:14] <willeo> thru hal right?
[01:58:18] <cradek> yes
[01:58:36] <willeo> how do I tell which board is which since I have 4 7i37ta's
[01:58:52] <willeo> the 7i33ta's should be fairly simple
[01:59:05] <willeo> but still 4 ax on one 1 ax on another
[01:59:32] <cradek> look in dmesg and find the pin numbers assigned to the various 5i20 plugs, and then look at the 7i37 manual
[01:59:49] <cradek> (it can be a little tedious to figure out)
[02:00:32] <willeo> and i can turn on a io and probe it wth a dvom to id it then
[02:00:37] <cradek> you bet
[02:00:40] <willeo> ok
[02:00:45] <cradek> you can even do that with setp
[02:01:03] <willeo> ok
[02:01:09] <SWPadnos> it's not quite that simple though, since the outputs on the 7i33 are isolated from each other
[02:01:10] <cradek> and this concludes our tour of classicladder!
[02:01:16] <SWPadnos> and are MOSFETs, not push/pull
[02:01:30] <willeo> swp say that again
[02:01:49] <SWPadnos> the outputs from the card won't switch between 0V and 5V like a logic output, they're like switches
[02:01:51] <cradek> I bet you can use continuity test on your meter
[02:02:10] <SWPadnos> yeah, continuity test should work
[02:02:25] <willeo> so if no voltage they switch ground? how do they do anything if no voltage present when on?
[02:02:26] <cradek> also beware it'll only work one way
[02:02:33] <SWPadnos> or use a pull-up, like a 9V battery (or a few AA's) with a 10k resistor
[02:02:36] <Valen> I make them inputs then touch em with a wire
[02:02:37] <cradek> they're switches, each isolated from each other
[02:02:38] <willeo> on outputs
[02:02:46] <Valen> to find them
[02:02:48] <SWPadnos> no, I think they're MOSFETS, so they should work in either direction
[02:03:01] <cradek> pretty sure they don't
[02:03:06] <willeo> what the ? is a mosfet mean?
[02:03:08] <cradek> (but I have no idea what they are)
[02:03:16] <SWPadnos> they should, I think the manual says you can use them as push-pull outputs to drive motors
[02:03:28] <cradek> I think they even have LEDs that light if you hook them backward
[02:03:33] <SWPadnos> heh, it's a kind of transistor that will pass current in both directions
[02:03:37] <Valen> mosfet has a diode one way, and the switch the other
[02:03:52] <SWPadnos> maybe I'm thinking of the wrong board number ;)
[02:04:10] <Valen> I believe the 7i33 is just pulldown
[02:04:11] <cradek> or me
[02:04:35] <SWPadnos> the 7i37 is the 16 in/8 out I/O card
[02:04:47] <SWPadnos> 7i33 is 4x servo interface
[02:04:51] <SWPadnos> (just so we all know :) )
[02:05:17] <willeo> ok, head full of gcode
[02:05:20] <cradek> SWPadnos: it's not me, it's you (I checked the manual)
[02:05:27] <willeo> can't recall mesa numbers yet
[02:05:35] <SWPadnos> okie dokie then
[02:05:43] <Valen> i'm only half here anyway lol
[02:05:51] <SWPadnos> willeo, me either, and I've probably got one of each here (or more)
[02:05:54] <Valen> trying to get a job at a school
[02:06:33] <cradek> wellll I retract my comment - I don't know if they only conduct one way. I can't tell from the manual.
[02:06:48] <cradek> OBITx+ pins are the MOSFET drain connections and the OBITx- pins are the MOSFET
[02:06:48] <cradek> source connections.
[02:06:57] <willeo> ok, on a encoder vector spindle, I set it up like an axis in hal?
[02:06:57] <cradek> ^ means pretty much nothing to me
[02:07:05] <SWPadnos> from the description: "All output drivers are low saturation voltage MOSFETS for low power dissipation. Each of the 8 output switches is isolated from the others, allowing high side, low side, push-pull and other output switch configurations."
[02:07:06] <cradek> willeo: no
[02:07:31] <willeo> in te control now it shows a c axis when tapping and such...
[02:07:35] <SWPadnos> I guess all that could be done with a single switching polarity
[02:07:37] <cradek> SWPadnos: why do you need to use two of them to switch AC?
[02:07:50] <cradek> SWPadnos: yeah (and that's the normal thing on opto22)
[02:08:13] <cradek> willeo: emc doesn't use a C axis to tap, it just uses encoder feedback and a free-running spindle
[02:08:21] <willeo> ok
[02:08:28] <willeo> so no spindle setup for what I have?
[02:08:37] <cradek> well I wouldn't say that
[02:08:48] <cradek> you need to get spindle position into the motion controller, but not as an axis
[02:08:56] <willeo> ok
[02:09:19] <cradek> you need an encoder with index that's scaled so each rev of the spindle increases the encoder position by 1.0
[02:09:32] <cradek> it goes to motion.spindle-revs
[02:09:47] <willeo> ok
[02:09:55] <willeo> that in documentation somewhere?
[02:09:58] <cradek> of course
[02:10:02] <SWPadnos> hmm. I could have sworn that MOSFETs were bipolar, but maybe that was only a particular type of output switch that happened to use MOSFETs (like the old IR(?) "BOSFET")
[02:10:14] <SWPadnos> that's why I mostly do software :)
[02:10:20] <Valen> BJT's are bipolar ;->
[02:10:20] <cradek> haha
[02:10:39] <willeo> ok, pleanty for tonight anyway.....
[02:10:49] <willeo> whens the wichita thing?
[02:11:08] <cradek> nov 12 - whenever
[02:12:01] <willeo> might have to try and make it to that
[02:12:14] <willeo> with the linux box and some hardware
[02:12:48] <cradek> cool
[02:14:12] <willeo> so to set up in hal for io I use net or setp?
[02:14:14] <SWPadnos> no machines under 3 tons allowed :)
[02:14:20] <willeo> or both with an addf
[02:14:20] <SWPadnos> net
[02:14:28] <pcw_home> Power MOSFETs have a inherent diode from source to drain so only work one way
[02:14:29] <pcw_home> (well they work the other way up tp .6V or so)
[02:14:32] <SWPadnos> setp is like attaching a test lead to a PLC, net is like connecting a wire
[02:14:59] <SWPadnos> err, maybe that didn't make sense :)
[02:15:11] <cradek> that was the worst explanation ever
[02:15:32] <SWPadnos> HAL is more or less like a schematic system internally. nets are the "wires" used to connect HAL components together inside the PC
[02:16:28] <mozmck> so you have to know electronics to use HAL :)
[02:16:35] <SWPadnos> slap!
[02:16:45] <cradek> pcw_home: in the opto22 manuals it shows hookup (+v ... switch ... +input -input ... gnd) instead of talking about sources and drains. I would find that easier to understand in the 7i37 manual
[02:16:52] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, is it possible to get a 1.5MGate 3x20?
[02:17:21] <SWPadnos> (so it works with webpack)
[02:17:30] <pcw_home> Yes if they are in stock (dont know if they are or not))
[02:17:46] <SWPadnos> ok. I only see the -1 and -2 on the price list, so that's all I asked about
[02:18:09] <SWPadnos> then again, webpack will probably support the 2M parts by the time I have any time to mess with making my own configs ;)
[02:19:00] <pcw_home> You can also use the ISE eval...
[02:19:08] <SWPadnos> oh yeah, that's true
[02:19:24] <SWPadnos> and a little birdie told me how to make unsupported chips work with webpack too :)
[02:19:43] <SWPadnos> at least in the v6 or v7 days
[02:20:15] <pcw_home> We had interesting problems with 12.3
[02:20:52] <SWPadnos> what kind?
[02:21:15] <pcw_home> Spartan6 compiles tossing lots of logic
[02:21:20] <qq-> where get something as emc2_2.4.5.tar.gz ? i use git but further i can't get
[02:21:42] <cradek> I thought I already answered that - where are you stuck?
[02:21:55] <qq-> in git commands ..
[02:22:08] <cradek> but I told you where to click to download the tarball you want
[02:22:25] <SWPadnos> on the website http://git.linuxcnc.org/
[02:22:31] <SWPadnos> not using git
[02:22:37] <qq-> cradek, i'm in cli , no click here
[02:22:56] <SWPadnos> then there's probably a git tarball command :)
[02:23:54] <SWPadnos> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=b5bb7beec1b342eefad29d112f3ab5d77129845f
[02:24:35] <SWPadnos> qq-, cli for what?
[02:24:45] <qq-> and how to "get" it ?
[02:24:59] <qq-> command line
[02:25:12] <SWPadnos> use the URL above, and either a browser or curl or wget to actually fetch it
[02:25:39] <SWPadnos> I know what CLI means, I'm wondering how you would get a tarball from SourceForge with one, but can't access our gitweb server
[02:25:57] <pcw_home> cradek: I'll look at making simple hookup drawings for the 7I37 (and others)
[02:27:10] <cradek> pcw_home: cool, thanks
[02:27:50] <qq-> SWPadnos, i can access gitweb server , ... but can't get emc2_2.4.5.tar.gz
[02:28:04] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, do you sell the PCIE cables for the 7i68?
[02:28:12] <pcw_home> We will also have a 7I37 variant with input and output commons to simplify wiring
[02:28:21] <cradek> pcw_home: on both my machines the switches were set up to switch the high side, and the proxes act as low side, so there are two different hookups - I don't know if this is universal but it might be close
[02:28:25] <SWPadnos> qq use the URL above, that will get you 2.4.5
[02:28:33] <pcw_home> Yes we sell them but Digikey has them as well
[02:28:44] <SWPadnos> oh. interesting
[02:29:27] <SWPadnos> what's the "last mile" (last inch? :) ) on that?
[02:29:44] <SWPadnos> ie, how do you actually connect it to a PCIe slot on the PC motherboard?
[02:30:08] <pcw_home> Yes the 7I37COM has high side common for outputs and low side common for inputs I think this is fairly standard
[02:30:37] <qq-> SWPadnos, thanks
[02:30:49] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that is pretty standard, unless you're in an industrial I/O environment
[02:31:10] <SWPadnos> there, they want the outputs to source current, so an accidentally grounded wire doesn't activate something it shouldn't
[02:31:30] <cradek> I was probably unclear, but I meant there are two different hookups to inputs, depending on whether they are physical switches or proxes
[02:32:29] <cradek> for a physical switch, you hook the opto up switch->ground. for the prox you do +v->prox (I think)
[02:32:57] <cradek> it's been a while and I have to check it every time
[02:33:32] <atmega> you can get sinking or sourcing prox switches
[02:33:43] <cradek> figures :-)
[02:33:59] <atmega> we pretty much use all sinking inputs for everything except safety circuits
[02:38:25] <pcw_home> the 3X20 is PCIE cable connected theres a 1 lane motherboard if you want it in a slot, theres a 6I71 slot/cable interface
[02:38:26] <pcw_home> so you have motherboard slot --> 6i71 --> cable 3X20
[02:38:31] <SWPadnos> aha - the 6I71 is what I need
[02:38:38] <SWPadnos> heh, just found that :)
[02:39:18] <SWPadnos> ot motherboard -> 6i71 -> cable -> 3x20 -> 7i68, if you actually want the I/O headers, right?
[02:40:23] <SWPadnos> is this the cable: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1167-ND
[02:40:24] <pcw_home> Right
[02:40:30] <SWPadnos> (the 3m one anyway)
[02:40:40] <SWPadnos> ok, cool now I can place the order :)
[02:40:51] <SWPadnos> oh, are there hostmot2 bitfiles for the 3x20?
[02:41:11] <pcw_home> Yep thats a 3M one anyway
[02:41:19] <pcw_home> Sure
[02:41:26] <SWPadnos> excellent
[02:41:39] <SWPadnos> for the 2M FPGA even? :)
[02:42:34] <willeo> so i do a net %I0 => hm2/hm2_5i20.0.IOpin024?
[02:42:42] <pcw_home> Only if I get a new ISE eval...
[02:42:52] <willeo> or do I use the human readable name?
[02:43:25] <cradek> willeo: more like: net your-signal-name-here classicladder.0.out-00 => hm2_5i20.0.gpio.024
[02:43:42] <cradek> but yeah you have the right idea
[02:43:47] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, heh, ok then
[02:44:26] <willeo> ladder variable name or human readable name?
[02:44:43] <SWPadnos> the ones you can see with halcmd
[02:44:52] <cradek> usually the net is named something meaningful to a human
[02:44:57] <SWPadnos> like classicladder.0.in-00 or classicladder.0.out-00
[02:45:01] <cradek> "cycle-start-pushbutton"
[02:46:40] <SWPadnos> well crap. that may mean that I have to get the -1 version
[02:46:56] <SWPadnos> but only if I actually want to use it, I guess :)
[02:48:32] <pcw_home> I know that 48 Stepgens will fit in the 1M version so it has a fair amount of room
[02:48:58] <SWPadnos> but with 144 pins I might need (need!) 72 stepgens
[02:49:15] <pcw_home> Right
[02:53:21] <pcw_home> We will have a SP6 version fairly soon Pretty sure SP6 has bigger Webpack supported chips then SP3
[02:55:08] <pcw_home> Also Ethercat SP6 card is coming along if you want distance but dont need the PCIE bandwidth
[02:56:14] <willeo> telling me gpio pin does not exist even though showing up in hm2.text
[02:56:15] <SWPadnos> well, I'm curious about using that PCIE cable to more or less isolate the computer from the machine (physically, not electrically)
[02:56:46] <pcw_home> Yep it does that pretty well
[02:56:58] <SWPadnos> willeo, that often means that something is mis-spelled (remember, it is all case sensitive)
[02:57:22] <SWPadnos> and 144 I/Os should be enough for any machine I'm likely to own
[02:57:43] <SWPadnos> it's even enough to have a reasonable number of I/Os for physical panel buttons and indicators
[02:58:11] <pcw_home> Nice thing about PCIE is that the serial protocol is all hidden
[02:58:24] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's just PCI transactions to the driver AFAIK
[03:00:25] <MattyMatt> the first miner is on his way up \o/
[03:00:28] <pcw_home> 144 FPGA pins is a lot We will have some nicer solutions for I/O expansion fairly soon
[03:01:27] <SWPadnos> yeah, I guess the SPI I/O cards are out of stock or something
[03:01:38] <SWPadnos> I think I asked about those (the 7i49 and 7i50 maybe?)
[03:02:47] <pcw_home> 7I50s are being built, 7I49s still need some analog tweaks before they are released to production
[03:03:40] <willeo> it likes the firstt part but dislikes hm2_5120.gpio.024
[03:03:42] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. I just wanted some of that stuff to play around with. it's the 5i23 and 7i37 that I need
[03:03:54] <SWPadnos> you're missing a .0 in there
[03:04:06] <SWPadnos> hm2_5i20.0.gpio-024
[03:04:08] <willeo> and i tried putting hm2/hm2_5i20.gpio.024
[03:04:36] <SWPadnos> halcmd show pin hm2 will show you all the actual pin names
[03:04:40] <willeo> the 0 or 1 is in the code
[03:04:46] <SWPadnos> (if the driver is loaded)
[03:05:09] <pcw_home> Yes you are missing the card #
[03:05:12] <SWPadnos> you need it in the pin name as well. if you have two cards of the same type, the first is hm2_5i20.0 and the second is hm2_5i20.1
[03:05:27] <SWPadnos> but they may have identical pin names other than that .0 vs .1
[03:07:41] <pcw_home> SWPadno If you want to evaluate the 7I49, we could probably sample you a proto
[03:07:48] <pcw_home> (s)
[03:08:33] <cradek> wish I had a 7i49 and time machine for my lathe
[03:08:45] <cradek> would have been so nice
[03:08:50] <SWPadnos> that would be great, though I don't have much time for experimentation/evaluation at the moment
[03:09:30] <SWPadnos> toss whatever you want in the box with my order :)
[03:10:08] <pcw_home> I think the bigger problem with integrating resolver input into EMC is supporting absolute encoders
[03:10:25] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's something I wanted to work on
[03:10:37] <pcw_home> homing in particular is different
[03:10:52] <SWPadnos> maybe my 50W Yaskawa motors and drives are small enough to bring to Wichita
[03:11:01] <willeo> ok, needed a .in at the end
[03:11:19] <cradek> is that better or easier than just faking an index pulse? I'm not sure I see the point for emc
[03:11:27] <Jymmm> what other projects use the anything io cards?
[03:11:59] <SWPadnos> willeo, you can get a complete list of pins by loading emc with the mesa driver and classicladder, then use this command in a terminal: halcmd show pin > pinlist.txt
[03:12:30] <pcw_home> Imagine a gantry system, absolute is much nicer
[03:12:38] <SWPadnos> you can then load pinlist.txt in your editor and copy/paste the names while editing your hal file
[03:12:50] <cradek> hm, true I guess
[03:13:24] <cradek> assuming you're not off more than half a turn - your assumption will make it much worse if so
[03:13:37] <SWPadnos> absolute encoders usually have turns counters as well
[03:13:44] <cradek> (I intend to try to do gantry homing at fest)
[03:13:48] <SWPadnos> which are good until the battery dies
[03:13:55] <cradek> SWPadnos: well not resolvers right?
[03:13:56] <SWPadnos> (several years)
[03:14:04] <SWPadnos> no, not resolvers
[03:14:21] <pcw_home> Jymmm? Lots of different uses (Cell phone testing, motion control using SoftDMC, data aquisition..)
[03:14:30] <SWPadnos> unless you use two of them and a really low backlash 4096:1 drive :)
[03:14:48] <SWPadnos> waveform generation for large power supplies
[03:15:23] <pcw_home> Also there are full span encoders like linear Resolute
[03:15:33] <pcw_home> No homing at all
[03:16:24] <cradek> I see the point of absolute encoders in general (with turns counters) - I was just wondering specifically about adding special stuff to hal for resolvers and what benefit that would have, instead of just making them look like incr encoders
[03:16:28] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Glanced at SoftDMC, I'm developmently chalenged =)
[03:17:10] <pcw_home> Good for brushless servo motors as well
[03:17:23] <SWPadnos> or spindle orient
[03:17:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Make it LOGO based and now we're talkin =)
[03:17:37] <cradek> that's a good point - those are one rev things
[03:17:44] <SWPadnos> you don't need an FPGA for LOGO
[03:18:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No, I wnat to use logo to control the fpga =)
[03:18:11] <pcw_home> Well when we started we only had 1K or code space so logo would be a stretch
[03:18:16] <SWPadnos> yeah
[03:18:20] <pcw_home> (of)
[03:18:27] <SWPadnos> can't fit that in a GAL
[03:20:45] <Jymmm> gallon?
[03:21:11] <SWPadnos> wow, there's an expensive toy: http://sewelldirect.com/ExpressCard-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Full-Length.asp
[03:22:29] <cradek> The ExpressBox is the solution to improve your laptop features and the way you interact with the world and the World of Warcraft.
[03:22:35] <cradek> ?
[03:22:50] <SWPadnos> you can attach a PCIe video card to your laptop with it :)
[03:22:57] <cradek> ohhh
[03:22:59] <cradek> bizarre
[03:23:09] <pepsi> obviously the only reason you'd want that is to play WoW
[03:23:10] <pepsi> duh
[03:23:24] <SWPadnos> I wonder if the card and cable can be had without the box
[03:23:30] <SWPadnos> for much less $$$
[03:23:51] <pepsi> yeah but you need the other end of the cable too
[03:24:09] <SWPadnos> that's what the 7i68 + 3x20 is for
[03:24:14] <pepsi> what?
[03:24:20] <pepsi> did you just swear at me in hex?
[03:24:29] <SWPadnos> could be
[03:24:41] <SWPadnos> http://mesanet.com/
[03:24:59] <SWPadnos> under Anything I/O FPGA cards
[03:25:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Shhhhh, that's their next line.... Anything I/O ExpressCards
[03:25:37] <SWPadnos> ok, I won't tell
[03:26:30] <Jymmm> Anything I/O over ethernet
[03:26:42] <Jymmm> THAT I'd buy.
[03:27:13] <pepsi> sounds like a bad idea
[03:27:29] <MattyMatt> use a mini-itx as a smart adapter
[03:27:45] <pepsi> wait where am i?
[03:27:52] <pepsi> what goes on in #emc?
[03:28:31] <SWPadnos> sometimes people actually discuss things related to the Enhanced Machine Controller, like the topic says
[03:28:39] <pepsi> screw the topic
[03:28:41] <pepsi> what goes on here?
[03:29:13] <pepsi> * pepsi checks the topic
[03:29:19] <pepsi> that topic is boring
[03:29:37] <pepsi> burrp
[03:29:57] <MattyMatt> this was all made with an emc controlled machine -> http://imagebin.ca/view/5efK55Av.html
[03:30:06] <SWPadnos> if you're bored, you don't have to stay
[03:30:43] <pepsi> i dont have to stay.. but will i leave?
[03:31:02] <SWPadnos> eill you stay or will you go now?
[03:31:06] <SWPadnos> err, will
[03:31:11] <pepsi> neither
[03:31:18] <MattyMatt> I used a metalwork machine to make wooden parts for a machine that makes plastic things. the first thing I'll make will probably be another machine that uses papier mache
[03:31:40] <pepsi> MattyMatt: you seem to be working backwards
[03:31:57] <pepsi> those gears are plastic :(
[03:32:08] <MattyMatt> it seems that way :) but I'm selling these wooden parts to buy more metal
[03:32:36] <MattyMatt> my mill isn't stiff enough to work metal yet
[03:33:32] <MattyMatt> and when I can print plastic, I can make drag chains and coolant hoses and other useful ancillaries
[03:34:12] <MattyMatt> multimedia ftw
[03:35:13] <pcw_home> What are those parts for?
[03:36:00] <MattyMatt> I found the answer today to milling plastic with a 4 flute & fast spindle without melting it. a few drops of oil on the tool
[03:36:39] <mozmck> you'll find it's the same with metal also
[03:36:57] <MattyMatt> a reprap machine. poor man's stratasys plastic pooping printer
[03:36:58] <mozmck> ;)
[03:38:07] <MattyMatt> I thought the usual choice was flood or mist :) I never thought a few drops would make such a difference
[03:39:13] <mozmck> Sure can! I often just use a oil can and dribble a little oil or coolant manually.
[03:39:44] <mozmck> Metal usually often needs more to keep stuff cool.
[03:43:40] <MattyMatt> I'me wondering now if I should have been milling all this wood with linseed oil
[03:48:10] <MattyMatt> probably not. wood doesn't argue with tungsten carbide at 36krpm
[03:50:01] <juri_> I'm still building my first mill. I'm kinda just plodding along, i have no idea what it'll be capable of. its 100% thrown-away scrap. ;)
[03:57:26] <LawrenceG> 02
[03:58:07] <Jymmm> NO2
[03:58:41] <LawrenceG> damn... wrong channel.... tv guide doesnt work on this one!
[03:59:05] <Jymmm> works for me
[03:59:11] <Jymmm> CH13
[03:59:25] <Jymmm> bah rerun
[03:59:32] <LawrenceG> 11 for me....ncis la
[04:02:47] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: you like that show?
[04:03:15] <LawrenceG> not as good as original
[04:03:24] <Jymmm> heh
[04:03:34] <LawrenceG> but keeps me amused
[04:07:10] <LawrenceG> my mill is acting up..... something in spindle drive is getting stiff... could be bearing in motor, idler or spindle
[04:07:39] <Jymmm> that bites
[04:09:03] <LawrenceG> time to get dirty and find out what is going on..... grease may be my friend
[04:10:34] <LawrenceG> cheap china motor is the 1st suspect, the spindle is big roller bearings that have been recently serviced
[04:11:40] <LawrenceG> It would be nice to find it before the smoke leaks out
[04:17:58] <Jymmm> no doubt
[04:20:43] <LawrenceG> how is the laser coming?
[04:21:56] <LawrenceG> running spirograph images on chreme brule?
[04:32:02] <flyback> * flyback is embarassed by caprica
[04:32:18] <flyback> then again I didn't watch FAILstar galactica also
[04:32:38] <Valen> first season or two of glactica was ok
[04:32:47] <Valen> then it got all religious and i cbf watching it
[04:35:47] <flyback> I don't mind religion
[04:35:49] <flyback> at all
[04:35:52] <flyback> but this is just crap
[04:36:00] <flyback> melodramatic crap and bad acting
[04:37:33] <flyback> yet another rwason why I won't miss me
[05:03:03] <Valen> I wanna see space ships flying around and blowing stuff up from time to tim
[05:03:05] <Valen> e
[05:03:54] <jrsharp> hey all
[05:05:02] <jrsharp> I'm interested in building a relatively inexpensive DIY cnc router for small pcb work... I've been looking at the McWire design, specifically... Any thoughts on this? As for the electronics, what would I need to consider to get this functional with linuxcnc?
[05:13:44] <flyback> HAHAHHAA
[05:13:49] <flyback> jackass did "opteration"
[05:21:52] <Endeavour> Hello jrsharp.
[05:22:02] <Endeavour> I will now formally accuse you of being a stalker.
[05:22:05] <Endeavour> ;)
[05:24:12] <jrsharp> lol... I'm afraid I found #emc on my own ;)
[05:24:49] <jrsharp> as in addition to reprap, I'm interested in pcb fab
[05:24:57] <jrsharp> perhaps even more...
[05:25:28] <jrsharp> but at least, the designs I'm most interested in the reprap for will also require custom PCBs ;)
[06:08:02] <flyback> btw
[06:08:03] <flyback> http://www.bgmicro.com/CAP1140.aspx
[06:08:18] <flyback> bet those would be good for smoothing out surges from steppers or servo's
[06:08:19] <flyback> :P
[08:33:37] <Valen> reprap always seems a bit crappy to me
[11:33:02] <Shaeto> hi guys mb it is bad manners here but did someone manage to run TB6560 board (not "standard" ebay) card under emc2 (2.4.5) ? i can't find correct settings (delays) to run motors. under mach3 it works fine. where i can find any information ? google is a full of questions only :)
[11:33:51] <Shaeto> pins are configured correctly but motors move or very slowly or don't want to move
[11:58:17] <archivist> Shaeto, I think I remember someone saying read the chip data sheet for that one
[11:59:14] <Shaeto> well, agree that way is good, thanks will check 6560 datasheets
[11:59:15] <archivist> if you are lucky the result gets written up of the wiki
[11:59:23] <Shaeto> okay thanks :)
[11:59:26] <archivist> up on the wiki
[13:17:02] <SWPadnos> Shaeto, if you have access to a working Mach setup, you can write down the settings from there and translate them to EMC2 settings
[13:17:26] <SWPadnos> there's no automated way of doing that, but it's not like there are a lot of timing settings to copy
[13:22:25] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you're assuming Mach is actually respecting the entered numbers..
[13:23:03] <SWPadnos> yeah, I'm assuming that the numbers actually change something, which I think is a good assumption
[13:23:15] <alex_joni> I'm sure they change something
[13:23:31] <alex_joni> but I'm not so sure that if you enter 25nsec, that it'll actually do 25nsec
[13:23:59] <SWPadnos> oh, I don't think they have settings with words like "nsec" :)
[13:24:09] <alex_joni> msec, usec, whatever
[13:24:48] <SWPadnos> I'd fire it up, but my whole machine would get very slow and unresponsive if I did, so I think I'll pass
[13:26:05] <alex_joni> remember to start winamp when you do :P
[13:26:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's already running ;)
[13:26:44] <SWPadnos> actually, I may have finally uninstalled Mach from this machine. I think I was running out of disk space at some point
[13:27:44] <flyback> heh
[13:27:50] <flyback> freeRTOS cnc
[13:27:51] <flyback> * flyback runs
[13:29:40] <SWPadnos> hmm. I wonder how much worse it would actually be to have a basic DOS-like CNC machine that just reads from USB or something (most BIOSes let you treat USB like a hard disk, so you shouldn't need drivers), and you just reboot the thing whenever you want to load a new program
[13:30:08] <cradek> worse than what?
[13:30:10] <flyback> i'd go with freeRTOS or contiki or ecos
[13:30:13] <flyback> I wouldn't bother with dos
[13:30:17] <SWPadnos> with a fast booting PC and a simple OS that doesn't initialize any hardware (more or less), it might be only 3-5 seconds for a reboot
[13:30:30] <flyback> SWPadnos, use one of those
[13:30:33] <flyback> dont' bother with dos
[13:30:36] <SWPadnos> worse than using a full-blown OS like Linux or Windows and trying to get latency down
[13:30:48] <flyback> dos is *CANUCKED*
[13:31:09] <SWPadnos> eh, I've used ecos, it wasn't all that great. use coreboot and run a dedicated machine control kernel as the "OS"
[13:31:14] <Paragon39> Morning All...
[13:31:19] <flyback> you could do that
[13:31:23] <flyback> coreboot + freeRTOS
[13:31:30] <cradek> long ago, my cnc control was dos booted diskless with a boot rom on the isa network card
[13:31:41] <cradek> it was a 486, iirc
[13:31:49] <cradek> it had networking for loading files, and worked fine
[13:31:55] <SWPadnos> flyback, I guess I'm thinking even more low level than that - more or less use the PC like a microcontroller
[13:32:07] <mozmck_work> SWPadnos: why reboot? just make it able to load files, and maybe have a remote interface...
[13:32:08] <flyback> * flyback still has several 486 based net4501 boards he's going to use for various projects
[13:32:17] <SWPadnos> cradek, yeah, sure. you could use polling on non-critical devices such as network cards
[13:32:17] <flyback> SWPadnos, FREErtos
[13:32:39] <SWPadnos> flyback, yes, I've seen that word many times this morning, thank you :)
[13:33:05] <SWPadnos> jeex guys, I haven't even finished my first cup of coffee yet. I didn't say it was a GOOD idea! :)
[13:33:09] <SWPadnos> err, jeez
[13:33:25] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: have a cup on me :)
[13:33:36] <SWPadnos> ok, will do
[13:34:25] <SWPadnos> mozmck_work, yeah, you're right. there's no need for reboots since it has to be able to load files anyway
[13:34:41] <SWPadnos> I guess I was thinking in appliance mode: plug in stick, hit button, watch machine run
[13:35:21] <SWPadnos> whether the button is a reset button or a keyboard button that tells the software to look at the stick doesn't really matter
[13:37:33] <mozmck_work> yeah. I've thought about something like this for a while. Porting emc2 may take a bit of work though.
[13:38:11] <SWPadnos> yeah, the structure of EMC2 pretty much requires a multitasking OS
[13:38:23] <flyback> I got 5 hrs sleep
[13:38:25] <flyback> so blah
[13:38:25] <SWPadnos> (which is what I was trying to avoid, more or less)
[13:38:30] <mozmck_work> I think freeRTOS does that?
[13:38:37] <SWPadnos> sure
[13:38:43] <SWPadnos> or ucos
[13:38:57] <flyback> freeRTOS will also run on 8 bit mcu's
[13:39:04] <flyback> so instead o f having one big pc etc to run it
[13:39:08] <flyback> yo could have a bunch of stuff
[13:39:12] <flyback> 8 bit mcu's for each stepper
[13:39:21] <flyback> and a central cpu and have them work in tandem
[13:39:28] <SWPadnos> well, you need a little more CPU power than the average 8-bitter
[13:39:37] <flyback> yeah I never did a cnc before so mabye I am wrog
[13:39:39] <mozmck_work> I would imagine large portions of emc code could be used though without an OS
[13:39:52] <SWPadnos> yes, a lot of it probably could
[13:40:04] <flyback> it's amazing the power we have these days
[13:40:10] <mozmck_work> I bet something like the LPC1768 would do.
[13:40:15] <flyback> if my head stops decaying i'd love to get into stuff like this
[13:40:16] <SWPadnos> the UI, file handling, and inter-task communications would all be a porting problem though :)
[13:40:23] <flyback> yeah arm owns your "CANUCK"
[13:40:38] <SWPadnos> do you have a problem with Canadians?
[13:40:41] <flyback> well split it
[13:40:44] <flyback> yes
[13:40:46] <flyback> I do
[13:40:48] <flyback> for 12+ yrs on irc
[13:40:56] <flyback> they must pay for their country's acts of terrorism
[13:41:08] <flyback> such as the sci fi series "earth final conflict"
[13:41:09] <flyback> :P
[13:41:14] <SWPadnos> ok. well please leave that out of our discussions here
[13:41:20] <flyback> ok :P
[13:41:24] <SWPadnos> but there's also "Forever Knight" :)
[13:41:26] <flyback> but seriously
[13:41:31] <flyback> splitting the problem might be best
[13:41:32] <SWPadnos> or there was anyway
[13:41:36] <flyback> keep EMC on a linux box
[13:41:38] <juri_> yay! forever knight!
[13:41:46] <SWPadnos> not really
[13:41:50] <mozmck_work> My thought was to have all the UI on a PC/laptop/netbook, talking to the embedded controller through ethernet or usb.
[13:41:51] <flyback> but have it tie into some 8 bit mcu's to do the actual stepper motor control
[13:41:55] <flyback> yeah
[13:41:59] <flyback> exactely mozmck
[13:42:00] <juri_> hey now. i'm watching season 3 as we speak. ;)
[13:42:22] <SWPadnos> emc isn't a stepper controller, it can use servos, steppers, or whatever other actuator you can control
[13:42:29] <flyback> I know
[13:42:41] <flyback> but I am saying you get rid of the latency issue by using uc's
[13:42:54] <flyback> tied into it
[13:43:13] <mozmck_work> the actual motion control/planning would be in the embedded micro.
[13:43:21] <SWPadnos> other features of emc (like spindle synchronized motion: threading, CSS, FPR), make independent controllers a liability
[13:43:35] <flyback> not necessarily
[13:44:01] <mozmck_work> That's why all the motion stuff would be in the embedded controller, and just the UI elsewhere.
[13:44:16] <SWPadnos> you only get rid of the step or PWM timing issues, which are easily fixed with relatively inexpensive hardware (Mesa, Pico - $200-ish)
[13:44:43] <flyback> whichi probably have embedded mcu's on them
[13:44:51] <mozmck_work> fpga's
[13:45:40] <SWPadnos> they have effectively instantaneous communication to the CPU
[13:46:05] <flyback> mozmck_work, same idea really
[13:46:21] <SWPadnos> with the PCI cards, the CPU can read state in a few microseconds, do its calculations, and output commands in another few microseconds
[13:46:54] <SWPadnos> flyback, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
[13:47:21] <flyback> btw
[13:47:30] <flyback> you guys canprobably use this thne
[13:47:47] <flyback> http://www.domenech.org/bt878a-adc/index-e.htm
[13:47:49] <flyback> and
[13:49:54] <flyback> http://bu3sch.de/joomla/index.php/bt8xx-based-gpio-card
[13:50:09] <flyback> these cards were down to $5 on ebay even before the digital tv switch over
[13:50:56] <flyback> also
[13:51:10] <flyback> c-media cm109 and up cheap usb sound chips have 8 gpio on them
[13:51:43] <mozmck_work> That's neat! Getting close to 1Gsps into the computer. That could make a pretty decent oscilloscope!
[13:51:45] <SWPadnos> that's interesting, but not likely to be applicable to machine control
[13:51:58] <SWPadnos> did you see an extra zero somewhere?
[13:52:04] <flyback> SWPadnos, well I threw it out there just in case
[13:52:07] <SWPadnos> I saw 448 kHz
[13:52:10] <flyback> correct
[13:52:13] <flyback> 448khz
[13:52:18] <SWPadnos> (half a megasample, nowhere near a gigasample)
[13:52:42] <flyback> 890,000 samples per second
[13:52:46] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's very cool stuff
[13:53:04] <SWPadnos> it looked like you could only do that rate in mono mode
[13:53:24] <SWPadnos> ah, I see it now
[13:53:28] <mozmck_work> oh, I mis-read
[13:54:44] <mozmck_work> still better than 48Khz
[13:56:21] <SWPadnos> AC-coupled though
[13:57:47] <flyback> hey for around < $10
[13:57:56] <flyback> you can always use it for non realtime bits
[13:58:03] <flyback> measureing heater temps, lights etc
[13:58:15] <flyback> and save your low latency i/o for motors, etc
[13:58:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:58:48] <flyback> that's how I look at stuff like this
[13:58:55] <flyback> if it's cheap enough you can always find a use for it
[14:00:44] <flyback> i'm serious :P
[14:01:02] <flyback> it's like "hey i'd like an extra measurement but I can't afford the i/o pin"
[14:01:07] <flyback> stuff like this is good enough
[14:01:36] <flyback> shame my body and mind are decaying so rapidely i'd like to get more into stuff like this
[14:02:16] <SWPadnos> heh. For me, I place a relatively high value on my time, so if it takes me several hours to (a) find the information, (b) compile and install software, and (c) make hardware modifications, then I just spend the money and get what I need :)
[14:02:31] <flyback> no I understand that also :P
[14:03:56] <flyback> oh btw
[14:04:00] <flyback> I am sure you guys can use these also
[14:04:53] <flyback> http://www.bgmicro.com/2gbindustrialgradecompactflash.aspx
[14:05:23] <flyback> unlike normal cf, these have smart, show write cycles, support software write locking parts of it and have a 5 second emergency erase
[14:06:28] <flyback> * flyback going to order 5
[14:07:57] <mozmck_work> hey, I know billy! I'm probably going to his warehouse on thursday.
[14:08:39] <SWPadnos> billy goat micro? :)
[14:09:11] <mozmck_work> heh, don't know his middle name, but I'm sure that's not it :)
[14:10:14] <flyback> yeah I am going to use cf in some old laptops etc
[14:10:18] <flyback> low write cycle apps
[14:10:20] <mozmck_work> I'll have to get some of those cards.
[14:10:26] <flyback> so I don't have to worry about mech hd failure
[14:10:29] <flyback> in bad enviormnets
[14:10:53] <flyback> I used a cf for a project at work
[14:11:24] <flyback> a linux box that monitors the ups then logs into all the vmware esx, esxi, server, linux and windows native boxes, and san's and nas's and fires off shutdown scripts
[14:19:09] <Paragon39> What drive would be used to drive one of these? http://www.granitedevices.fi/index.php?q=direct-drive-motors
[14:22:53] <SWPadnos> a sinusoidal AC drive
[14:24:31] <cradek> this thread is interesting (can you drill a better-centered hole on a lathe than on a mill?) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=43432
[14:26:35] <Paragon39> I was thinking of attempting to make one of these motors as a project but with smaller dimmensions.
[14:28:54] <SteveStallings> SteveStallings is now known as steves_logging
[14:29:35] <Paragon39> Interesting article cradek :-)
[14:30:16] <cradek> yes and I admit I don't know the answer yet
[14:31:04] <cradek> we've all drilled wandering holes on the lathe... I wonder if it really is not a real effect.
[14:32:02] <archivist> the oil clearing the s**t in a gun drill is part of the cure,
[14:32:28] <Paragon39> I always have issues when drilling I must be one of the unlucky one's ;-)
[14:32:46] <archivist> peck often for straightness
[14:33:30] <SWPadnos> archivist, are M3.5 stainless flat-head philips screws readily available there?
[14:33:53] <SWPadnos> I'm having the devil of a time trying to find them on this side of the pond
[14:34:06] <archivist> probably yes,
[14:34:31] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: have you checked Metric and Multi Standard?
[14:34:37] <SWPadnos> could you grab me a box of them please? :)
[14:34:44] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, err, what's that?
[14:34:56] <JT-Work> http://www.metricmcc.com/
[14:35:18] <SWPadnos> ah, no - never heard of them
[14:35:39] <JT-Work> I used to get all my metric screws from them...
[14:36:14] <JT-Work> I don't see a 3.5mm diameter screw though in a flat head
[14:36:18] <cradek> 3.5-0.6?
[14:36:51] <SWPadnos> yeah, 3.5x0.6, I'm not sure of the length, but something in the 10-16mm range I think (some standard size I'm sure)
[14:37:11] <SWPadnos> ah, 12mm
[14:37:15] <JT-Work> I see them in SHCS
[14:37:17] <SWPadnos> says so right on the data sheet :)
[14:37:18] <cradek> I figured smallparts.com would have them, but they only have zinc/steel
[14:37:39] <cradek> yeah stainless is going to be the hard part
[14:37:51] <SWPadnos> yeah. McMaster has Zinc, MSC has stainless at $1.02 each or thereabouts
[14:38:19] <SWPadnos> too bad, because the 8mm are only $0.13 each
[14:39:08] <elmo42> elmo42 is now known as elmo39
[14:39:15] <JT-Work> If You Don't See a Product, JUST ASK and METRIC & MULTISTANDARD Will Get It for You!
[14:39:39] <SWPadnos> heh. I don't see a lot of products there, their categories don't make a lot of sense to me
[14:39:41] <cradek> this reminds me of trying to buy a (single) ream of A4 paper 15 years ago
[14:40:07] <SWPadnos> A4, how could you use that in this country? :)
[14:40:23] <JT-Work> the catalogs are a bit strange but they have zillions of screws
[14:40:47] <Paragon39> Does anyone know of a supplier for thin steel tape or strip that can be used to make motor laminations? I was thinking of using steel tape laminated with thin paper soaked in enamel and then cut cross ways into wedges. does this sound feesable?
[14:41:01] <SWPadnos> I'm just trying to find some category that seems like it might have metric threads in it :)
[14:41:25] <JT-Work> http://www.metricmcc.com/priceCatalog/1-31.htm
[14:42:38] <archivist> their pdf missed out 3.5mm
[14:44:16] <archivist> damn there are some shit websites the the screw area
[14:44:20] <SWPadnos> maybe I should email Bud and tell them I need some extra screws for one of their enclosures
[14:46:09] <L84Supper> Fastenal has a few 3.5x0.6 with flat heads in the 10-25mm range
[14:46:15] <archivist> do you really want stainless and not just plated
[14:46:26] <L84Supper> all in Zinc
[14:47:03] <archivist> * archivist stabs the local supplier for not stating sizes stocked
[14:47:08] <L84Supper> http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/products/fasteners/screws/machine-screws/_/N-gj4wcbZjuetev&Nty=0
[14:48:52] <SWPadnos> DigiKey actually has screws (from Hammond, ironically), but they don't say what the material is
[14:49:11] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: what length do you need?
[14:49:15] <SWPadnos> 12mm
[14:49:22] <JT-Work> I can call my local Fastenal guy
[14:49:56] <JT-Work> its on my speed dial :)
[14:50:05] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: Could'nt the motor I mention before be driven with a brushless DC drive?
[14:50:08] <SWPadnos> eh, don't bother with that. I can get Zinc from MSC for cheap or stainless for not cheap
[14:50:30] <SWPadnos> Paragon39, it says "Sinusoidal AC" in the description, so I assume it's an AC motor
[14:50:31] <JT-Work> ok
[14:51:11] <archivist> * archivist has emailed a local to see where the local food factory gets its screws from
[14:51:22] <SWPadnos> heh, thanks
[14:51:47] <SWPadnos> maybe I should check in Germany. they actually use metric fro everything :)
[14:51:49] <SWPadnos> for
[14:52:21] <archivist> hex cap heads might be easier to google for
[14:52:35] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: what determines the difference between Sinusoidal AC and brushless DC?
[14:52:37] <SWPadnos> all the other screws are countersunk flat philips
[14:52:47] <Paragon39> Have you tried http://www.screwfix.com/ here in the UK?
[14:52:57] <SWPadnos> Paragon39, they're different kinds of motor. look at Wikipedia or something for detailed descriptions
[14:53:09] <L84Supper> ever try going into a hardware store in Germany and asking for 3/8-16 nuts and bolts?
[14:53:14] <SWPadnos> no, haven't
[14:53:22] <SWPadnos> to either of you
[14:53:54] <SWPadnos> Paragon39, oh, I misread your question. I think the main difference between BLDC and AC is trapezoidal or sinusoidal excitation
[14:55:32] <Paragon39> So in theory a direct drive motor could be desingned to use BLDC I guess.
[14:55:46] <archivist> SWPadnos, http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0528788 RS components
[14:56:26] <SWPadnos> very close
[14:56:27] <archivist> dont they have a US operation now too
[14:59:06] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/machine_screws.htm
[15:00:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm, very close. doesn't look like they have stainless thoguh
[15:00:21] <SWPadnos> though
[15:01:02] <SWPadnos> well, thanks for the ideas. I guess I should get back to the real work of the day now
[15:01:40] <archivist> RS was stainless
[15:02:02] <SWPadnos> RS was a pan head, not countersunk flat head
[15:05:33] <SWPadnos> oh, I misread the MSC price. it's $50.97/100 and you have to order in 50-packs (I thought it was $50 for a 50-pack, and you had to order 100)
[15:05:36] <SWPadnos> silly me
[15:06:26] <Paragon39> SWPadnos: You could try here they apear to have a good search facility https://www.fastenersclearinghouse.com/fch/main.nsf/fSearch?OpenForm&Start=1&type=R&Cat1=PRM460D65E02814;&Cat2=&Cat3=PRMFA3E628C1315;&Cat4=&Cat5=M3.5&Cat6=&Cat7=
[15:07:49] <archivist> SWPadnos, question did not mention counterskunks <SWPadnos> archivist, are M3.5 stainless flat-head philips screws readily available there?
[15:08:16] <SWPadnos> ah, sorry. I guess I thought it but didn't type it :)
[15:08:26] <SWPadnos> but flat head usually implies countersunk (not pan head)
[15:08:38] <archivist> not in my mind
[15:08:55] <SWPadnos> only in my mind I guess :)
[15:09:21] <SWPadnos> I'll just spend the $25 and get 50 of them from MSC. thanks for all the pointers guys
[15:15:48] <flyback> Paragon39,
[15:16:08] <flyback> it's probably like the spindle motor of a hard drive
[15:16:31] <flyback> it's not like a normal brushless dc motor where you just sequence the coils off
[15:16:42] <flyback> you feed it a waveform which wraps around the stator
[15:16:47] <flyback> at least that's how I understand it
[15:20:46] <Paragon39> flyback: Thanks for the reply. So it has one winding around the stator as opposed to say three windings as in a BLDC motor?
[15:21:10] <flyback> well hd motors have 4 pins but it's not like a normal one
[15:21:21] <flyback> mabye it is and it's just a different explnation
[15:21:25] <flyback> hang on lemme find the docs
[15:23:02] <flyback> * flyback has learned a lot about hard drives doing some data recovery
[15:23:08] <flyback> about to start a project soon I waited 10 yrs
[15:23:27] <flyback> pulling data on 50 old hd's I had lying around for 10 yrs
[15:24:00] <Paragon39> flyback: Found this http://www.siderealtechnology.com/DirectDriveWorkInProgress.pdf
[15:37:01] <flyback> Brushless, sensorless motors with three connections are in
[15:37:01] <flyback> fact, not DC motors at all. They are actually permanent
[15:37:01] <flyback> magnet synchronous AC, 3-phase motors.
[15:37:01] <flyback> The commutation is done electronically. Three distinct
[15:37:01] <flyback> semi sinusoidal waveforms (not pure sinewave AC) that come in
[15:37:02] <flyback> at different times (or degrees) will causes the rotor to
[15:37:04] <flyback> rotate with the changing (alternating) magnetic fields of
[15:37:06] <flyback> the stator.
[15:37:32] <flyback> they use back-emf sensing btw so you will need a DSP or DSpic
[15:37:44] <flyback> actually you can use a ARM mcu also with a good sw-dsp routine
[15:38:04] <flyback> if thr motor you are looking at is also sensorless
[15:38:22] <flyback> this is probably better for a spindle app
[15:38:33] <flyback> actuators etc are probably better done with brushless motors with sensors
[15:38:42] <flyback> since they are non-circular rotation
[15:38:49] <flyback> you know what I am trying to say (&##$*&(@(*@
[15:39:03] <flyback> the brain never did great on words to begin with and now it's really bad :P
[15:40:00] <mozmck_work> I believe some of the ARM cortex-m3 chips have dsp instructions now
[15:41:55] <flyback> nice
[15:42:33] <flyback> Paragon39, http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc8012.pdf
[15:42:47] <flyback> man I hope I solve the issue with my dual opteron 1u I bought off ebay soon
[15:42:53] <flyback> so I can have a nice stable vm host
[15:42:54] <flyback> :P
[15:43:17] <flyback> I had to install windows 2000 last night so I could configure the bmc card
[15:43:36] <flyback> be nice to have a box I can setup vm's for compiling various items including mabye playing with emc
[15:47:16] <Paragon39> flyback: Sorry for the delay in replying I was called away from the PC. Thanks for the information. I found this info for Pic 18fxxx http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00899a.pdf
[15:47:38] <flyback> yeah microchip has a bunch of motor control appnotes
[15:47:44] <flyback> for almost every type of motor made
[15:48:44] <flyback> yeah you don't need a dsp if you have the elements of a dsp that are only needed for motor control
[15:49:17] <mozmck_work> http://ics.nxp.com/support/documents/microcontrollers/?scope=LPC1768 There's appnotes and software for BLDC motor control and DSP stuff with the LPC1700 series ARM mcus
[15:49:44] <flyback> yeah I wish more industries were like that
[15:49:55] <flyback> appnotes are great, I haven't done anything yet but they are fun to read
[15:50:07] <flyback> it's like "this is how you made our stuff do cool shit"
[15:50:12] <Paragon39> As I understand it there are different ways of sensing the phase angle (120 / 60 degree) Using Hall Effect sensors(cheap and well tested) employing an absolute encoder (expensive) or as you mentioned sensing the back EMF from the unused phase (More complicated and the motor has to be turning also prone to interence).
[15:50:38] <flyback> sensorless works fine for some constant spin apps
[15:50:42] <flyback> such as a spindle motor
[15:51:00] <flyback> but when you have micro twitching etc I guess hall effect is the way to go
[15:51:10] <flyback> such as actuators etc
[15:51:15] <Paragon39> Sure...
[15:51:31] <Paragon39> Thanks for the link mozmck_work!
[15:51:36] <flyback> heh it reminds me of ball vs fluid bearings
[15:51:54] <flyback> fluid bearings are the only way to fly for high rpm and overall are cheaper, less wobble and more reliable
[15:52:09] <flyback> but they suck for stuff that constantely stops/starts or doesn't rotate 360 all the time
[15:52:47] <Paragon39> Not sure how much Im taking on but I really like the idea of attempting to build a direct drive rotary table.
[15:53:11] <flyback> * flyback can't even draw a straight line or figure out how to drill a hole perfectely center :/
[15:53:22] <flyback> which is why my wind turbine has sat around for 5+ yrs
[15:57:40] <Paragon39> Due to there high torque. Even the small rotary tables can produce around 30Nm (4248 oz-in)!
[15:59:16] <mozmck_work> ? Due to their high torque, they produce high torque?
[15:59:59] <Paragon39> mozmck_work: http://intellidrives.com/rotary-table-RotoRing.HTM
[16:01:07] <mozmck_work> interesting.
[16:01:51] <Paragon39> Here is five axis CNC using direct drive rotary tables notice the lower profile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g4mZ0l6WMc
[16:05:30] <Paragon39> Check this out folks: http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[16:08:09] <flyback> you guys seen some of the air bearings they sell
[16:08:17] <flyback> including bolt on replacements for existing gear
[16:08:23] <flyback> my mind can't handle that
[16:08:33] <flyback> holding up 1000's or even million pound loads
[16:08:40] <flyback> just in air pressure between the shaft and housing
[16:09:46] <Paragon39> Self exciter air foil bearings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_bearing
[16:27:45] <flyback> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/12/red-bull-cancels-daredevils-plunge-outer-space/
[16:27:50] <flyback> this shit has got to stop
[16:27:57] <flyback> or everything is going to be made, and done in china
[16:28:25] <flyback> someone needs to drop a nuke on the patent, copyright offices as well as several courthouses
[16:29:40] <cradek> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/non+sequitur
[16:30:22] <flyback> ?
[16:30:28] <cradek> exactly
[16:32:18] <flyback> * flyback bbl, work
[16:34:01] <Paragon39> flyback: My sentiments exactly!
[16:37:06] <Paragon39> The concervitive goverment here in the UK has stated it is going to change the laws to stop ambulance chasing litigation that has become a regular feature in all our lives. What ever happened to the sense of adventure and inovation?
[16:43:26] <pcw_home> Speaking of non-sequiturs, amazing how fast a rabbit can chew through a vacuum cleaner cord...
[16:44:36] <cradek> ha
[16:45:22] <cradek> I love to watch them eat parsley (starting from the stem end)
[16:45:28] <cradek> they are very efficient at chewing things
[16:45:47] <pcw_home> Cords are almost as fast...
[16:47:06] <pcw_home> They are really cute when two start on a parsley stem like Lady&Tramp
[16:48:03] <pcw_home> So I got out the soldering iron and shrink tubing and forgive them
[16:48:05] <cradek> hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0pKdXgNDbo
[16:48:13] <Paragon39> Here's a story: I was holding an interview some months ago and the chap arrives for his interview along with a person from HR. Well the interview was going well he answered all the unix'y tech questions and I was done. The HR person asked him what are your views on diversity and equality. The chap sat there for what seemed like an age deep in deep, deep thought and then smiled and replied:...
[16:48:15] <Paragon39> ..."Many years ago when I started out, I worked in a distribution center handing out parts. Sometimes we had a limited number of diverse parts, but I made sure I handed them out equally!" What a classic I wanted to give him the job but HR would have none of it!
[16:50:03] <pcw_home> Ha!
[16:51:54] <Jymmm> Paragon39: I would have told her "I think it's fairly rude to even ask and not very diverse nor showing equality."
[16:53:59] <Paragon39> Very true Jymmm but this was working for a goverment body and I was contractor. I would have been leaving with him!
[17:00:19] <Paragon39> Beleive it or not we were forced to hire someone who flew in from India specifically doing a round of interviews with various companys. His english was very poor and he was technically weak in the particular field we required but I guess he was cheap. HR had there way and that was that! The same goverment body hired two guys flown in from india to replace me. So much for the open market!
[17:05:20] <Paragon39> Is this happening in the US workplace too?
[17:06:08] <mozmck_work> I've heard of such things, but not that bad.
[17:06:13] <cradek> if you mean HR asking silly questions, and people from different countries working together, in my experience yes
[17:06:56] <mozmck_work> As far as forcing someone to hold PC views to get a job that is.
[17:07:07] <Jymmm> Hell, I'm going to start saying that I'm Native American!
[17:07:13] <Paragon39> Right! LOL
[17:07:17] <cradek> I sure haven't seen replacement of people based on their race though
[17:08:14] <pcw_home> Paragon: we have a torque motor here from a junk direct drive robot arm, instead of being a PM 3 phase motor
[17:08:16] <pcw_home> it is a variable reluctance step motor (maybe 50 poles or so, about 10" in diameter a 4 inches thick)
[17:08:22] <mozmck_work> I've definitely heard of people getting hired simply based on race when they had no qualifications for the job.
[17:08:27] <Paragon39> cradek: I don't mean it too come across as a race thing it's more a cost thing to companys!
[17:11:42] <Jymmm> Paragon39: Let's not go there.
[17:11:51] <Jymmm> (touchy subject)
[17:12:04] <Paragon39> We have somthing called ICT (Inter-Company-Transfer) in the UK. The original idea was sound but like all things it's beaing abused. Companys are setting up holding companys in India, China whereever there is cheap labour. Then they can bring those people over to the UK to work in there main offices while replacing more expensive staff. This is affecting all people born in this country!
[17:12:42] <Paragon39> Jymmm: Agreed!
[17:16:38] <Paragon39> pcw_home: Just saw your message. What kind of torque does the motor produce?
[17:17:20] <pcw_home> Dont know but enough for direct arm drive
[17:18:25] <pcw_home> Maybe harder to make on a home made basis than a PM 3 phase motor however
[17:19:30] <IchGuckLive> hi all there in the USA
[17:20:15] <pcw_home> I suspect the direct drive CNCs are all for small high precision high spindle speed applications (like linear motors)
[17:20:20] <Paragon39> cradek: LOL Disapproving Rabbit Eats Parsley
[17:21:28] <Paragon39> Did you see this ball-worm? http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[17:24:34] <IchGuckLive> Paragon39: i think there is alot of Force on the Theeth pointed
[17:26:20] <Paragon39> IchGuckLive: On the pointed teeth?
[17:31:34] <Paragon39> Heres an interesting take on the ball-worm http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=18191
[17:35:50] <IchGuckLive> Paragon39: yes ballscrews live on the amount of target points and i see not many of them an
[17:39:53] <IchGuckLive> it s dark in germany qand the moon is shining i go to the Tesescop place to test the new Stepper mount 1
[18:29:38] <andypugh> pcw_home: Ping!
[18:48:10] <cradek> I want to add a feature to my tool changer but I hate to mess with my ladder which has been perfect and bug-free for the year or two since I finished it
[18:48:29] <andypugh> Clone your config?
[18:48:41] <cradek> yeah, I know it's obvious :-)
[18:49:01] <andypugh> But?
[18:49:23] <cradek> nothing - just whining...
[18:49:52] <cradek> I made a video of my rotary table - whee
[18:52:20] <andypugh> Hi Robin
[18:58:54] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxgSmr01UQg
[19:00:48] <archivist> straight cut gears I can hear?
[19:01:39] <cradek> belt
[19:02:38] <Paragon39> Nice Job
[19:03:12] <cradek> thanks
[19:03:30] <cradek> it seems like a good table - worm engagement is adjustable for wear
[19:04:20] <cradek> I bought it auction years ago and never used it - who wants a manual rotary table?
[19:04:41] <Paragon39> It's certainly a large table! :-) What voltage / amps are the motor and drives running?
[19:04:49] <archivist> I have done stuff with a manual but not often
[19:05:16] <cradek> I think the motor says 72v and 4? amp
[19:05:30] <cradek> I forget exactly
[19:05:58] <Paragon39> No worries just after a ball park figure... Very Nice!
[19:06:15] <Paragon39> Back soon need to walk the dog!
[19:06:17] <cradek> hope the servo is big enough - it's from a smaller rotary indexer
[19:06:43] <cradek> it seems to have plenty of power (a worm gear does that I suppose)
[19:07:42] <Paragon39> For sure what with the reduction ration not to mention the work gear takes the stress.
[19:08:36] <cradek> tempting to make another (smaller) cnc rotary that bolts to this one for 5 axis
[19:08:59] <cradek> but work area would be smallish - probably not enough for a 6" vise
[19:10:55] <archivist> * archivist takes bets on how long the 5th waits to get done
[19:11:10] <cradek> I bet it might be a while!
[19:11:24] <archivist> I expect a start on the job in a week or three :)
[19:11:26] <cradek> took me years to collect these parts :-)
[19:11:45] <cradek> maybe if I find something good in the surplus shops while in wichita...
[19:12:07] <archivist> it annoyed me a lot during the period I only had 4
[19:12:21] <cradek> heh, I could bolt this little one to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg
[19:14:49] <cradek> archivist: other than wanting to make gears, it seems like the parts I want are always very simple
[19:15:39] <archivist> escape wheels... you are going to make a mechanical clock one day :)
[19:16:48] <archivist> May I remind the brits that its the midlands model engineer show in a few days
[19:19:12] <JT-Hardinge> my Z encoder on the lathe is not getting back to the 7i37 or EMC I'm not sure yet... I have 5v at the encoder terminal block
[19:19:27] <JT-Hardinge> do I need a scope to see the A and B?
[19:20:12] <cradek> if you suspect it's bad, yes, not sure how else to see it - logic probe would work I guess
[19:20:23] <cradek> or a voltmeter if you're really desperate
[19:20:46] <JT-Hardinge> do you check between A and A with the line
[19:21:18] <cradek> yes check both sides of each channel with respect to ground
[19:21:18] <JT-Hardinge> or between 0v and the signals?
[19:21:36] <cradek> one scope probe on A, one scope probe on /A, both probe ground leads to ground
[19:21:56] <cradek> the signals should both be alive and be opposite each other
[19:21:57] <JT-Hardinge> ok, I'll dig out my scope, thanks
[19:29:56] <jepler> cradek: get your thumb out of the video!
[19:29:57] <jepler> (cool)
[19:31:51] <cradek> yeah, awful video
[19:31:58] <cradek> but it'll be a cool rotary table
[19:38:33] <Paragon39> archivist: I'm sure the boys from Home & Workshop Machinery there :-) (MES)
[19:38:57] <Paragon39> archivist: Ooops Will be there...
[19:41:02] <Guest236> good day all :) I am in the process of downloading my live cd so I can start working on configuring my cnc lathe I am building. I have been reading tha there is now modbus support in emc2's classic ladder, is the support for serial or TCP/IP as well?
[19:45:20] <Paragon39> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjMJOfCyDaA&feature=related
[19:51:44] <cradek> Guest236: I think modbus happens over serial port - not sure if you're making a distinction or not - can you elaborate on what you want to control?
[19:52:34] <cradek> Paragon39: that's a long end mill
[19:53:15] <Paragon39> Would'nt want to get bitten by it ;-)
[19:54:44] <cradek> Paragon39: sure is simple to program - looks like everything is radial
[19:56:21] <Paragon39> cradek: true! Who needs artists these days ;-)
[19:57:39] <andypugh> I am sure the robot has enough DOF to do it without the table?
[19:58:09] <cradek> not the reach for the back side I bet
[19:58:29] <andypugh> They need a bigger one then :-)
[19:59:38] <Paragon39> cradek: Good Job on the 5 axix mill BTW. Very impressed :-)
[19:59:56] <cradek> oh the little one? thanks
[20:00:33] <Paragon39> Yes the Max-NC I think...
[20:03:46] <Paragon39> Ok don't laugh but... Could one potentialy use a steel flat tape rule for the laminated strator of a motor? http://www.thesitebox.com/Store/Product.aspx?ProductId=112312&src=google-base
[20:05:16] <archivist> best to get the right metal, thats steel motors use soft iron
[20:06:00] <Paragon39> Do they still use soft iron for laminated strators?
[20:06:55] <alSMT> is it because it doesn't need to hardened?
[20:07:12] <Guest236> I am looking to add functions that are not realtime sensitive that would run from a plc that talks through Modbus to ClassicLadder . Functions I am thinking of would be coolant on/off, work light on/off, spindle on/off, vac on/off ...all of my stepper control and limit switches will still be through my parallel port card
[20:08:24] <archivist> Paragon39, well its the magnetic properties
[20:08:49] <alSMT> be iron v steel
[20:09:29] <archivist> I have a few kg of transformer laminations available
[20:09:37] <Paragon39> I understand that soft iron produces stronger magnetic force but it heats up due to eddy currents and hysterisis. So the stators are laminated thus producing lots of smaller magnetic forces that combine to make the a total force... or somthing like that... as I understand it.
[20:10:00] <Guest236> I am planning on running modbus as serial and my PLC going rs232 is limited to only one device connected to it, but in the future I may ad a Modbus supported VFD that can be networked through ethernet so was wondering if the Modbus tcp/ip connection through ethernet was working or just a future thought
[20:10:19] <cradek> it's only serial as far as I know
[20:11:21] <archivist> Paragon39, yes but it loses its magnetism, steel retains
[20:11:41] <Guest236> thanks, I suspected as much... I am still happy with it, as the serial Modbus will do all I need it to right now
[20:11:53] <Guest178> hi, i want to use non-english characters (unicode) in emc2 pyvcp panel
[20:12:14] <Guest178> is it possible?
[20:12:15] <cradek> Guest236: consider a mesa 7i43 for direct control of everything (using the classicladder plc in emc if necessary) and using the serial port modbus for an automation direct vfd
[20:12:32] <cradek> Guest236: (or 5i20 if you prefer PCI to parallel port)
[20:12:52] <cradek> Guest236: you get the advantage of an excellent hardware step generator, and probably come out cheaper than buying a plc
[20:12:56] <Guest178> when i write in the xml file with non-english chars, the emc simply shows blank space
[20:13:21] <Paragon39> archivist: That makes sense! In fact I read that somewere on my internet travels. Trying to find the material now. Not having much luck :-(
[20:13:23] <cradek> Guest178: that sounds like a font problem
[20:13:34] <Guest178> any help?
[20:13:34] <Guest236> Cradek, thanks for the great suggestions there :) I may do just that when I have $$ to upgrade parts but for now will have to onfigure it with the pieces I have sitting around ;)
[20:13:40] <cradek> Guest178: I don't know the answer for sure, but wrong fonts will do that
[20:13:45] <cradek> sorry, no
[20:13:46] <Guest178> am i questioning in the right place?!
[20:13:59] <cradek> Guest178: yes
[20:14:08] <Guest236> I already have the plc sitting around hehe so not buying anything new at the moment ;)
[20:14:14] <cradek> ah I see
[20:15:01] <Guest178> thank you
[20:15:22] <Guest178> can i ask the question anywhere else?
[20:15:24] <cradek> Guest178: maybe someone else will know
[20:15:41] <Guest178> i don't know how this IRC thing works!
[20:16:05] <psha> Guest178: is xml file encoding correct?
[20:16:09] <Guest236> The plc is an Idec microsmart pentra, and I program them all the time for my work so I am comfortable with the platform and wanted to learn how to Modbus with it...so this is a good thing to try for me to interface it with EMC2
[20:16:44] <Guest178> is it just you that can see my messages
[20:16:48] <psha> Guest178: cyrillic chars are justfine
[20:16:56] <Guest178> or everyone can see me
[20:16:59] <psha> everybody
[20:17:03] <Guest236> and it allows me to get extra functions as my Hobbycncpro board doesn't have relay outputs
[20:17:06] <Guest178> ok thank you :)
[20:17:26] <psha> Guest178: check fonts(dunno how) and encoding in pyvcp xml file
[20:17:28] <Guest236> I can see you Guest178, I just don't know the answer to your question as I amm new with Emc2
[20:17:45] <Guest178> thank you too :)
[20:17:48] <Guest178> psha
[20:18:04] <Guest178> it seems that
[20:18:18] <Guest178> EMC
[20:18:26] <Paragon39> archivist: Motor Stator Material @ Hyperco cost around $100/lb. :-(
[20:18:33] <Guest178> works with the low 8 bits of
[20:18:36] <Guest178> a character
[20:18:48] <Guest178> unicode characters i want to use
[20:19:02] <Guest178> are placed with addresses
[20:19:07] <archivist> Paragon39, hmm scrap yard is cheating on me
[20:19:12] <Guest178> above 0xff
[20:19:20] <Guest178> which means they are 2 byte
[20:19:54] <Guest178> can I use images instead of text?
[20:20:00] <psha> Guest178: you need to use UTF-8 encoding
[20:20:03] <Paragon39> archivist: Not next time ;-)
[20:20:09] <Guest178> can I place simple images that are
[20:20:22] <psha> Guest178: only with gladevcp is suppose
[20:20:26] <Guest178> actually texts in place of labels,etc
[20:20:28] <Guest178> ?
[20:20:40] <Guest178> psha:yeah
[20:20:46] <archivist> Paragon39, I dont think he sell it on separate hence the bad price, he needs educating
[20:20:49] <Guest178> I use the UTF-8
[20:20:58] <Guest178> but it doesn't work
[20:21:19] <Guest178> EMC puts blank space
[20:21:24] <Guest178> in place of chars
[20:22:29] <Paragon39> archivist: Most Laminates are made from silicon steel of about .007 according to this discussion I found. Check the tenth post... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317663
[20:22:50] <Guest178> has anyone adapted EMC2 for non-english languages?
[20:23:21] <psha> Guest178: are you running it from live-cd?
[20:23:28] <Guest178> nop
[20:23:36] <Guest178> i have installed it
[20:23:48] <psha> simulator or real?
[20:23:53] <Guest178> real
[20:24:03] <Guest178> a 3 axis cnc machine
[20:24:08] <Guest178> works fine
[20:24:15] <Guest178> but i have to change the GUI
[20:24:21] <Guest178> language must be changed
[20:24:32] <Guest178> and I have to use non-english chars
[20:25:08] <andypugh> Guest178: There is some internationalisation, I am not sure how to activate it.
[20:25:18] <Paragon39> archivist: Now this is interesting material ... Soft Magnetic Composites (SMC mixed with epoxy resin.
[20:25:20] <psha> Guest178: what system?
[20:25:24] <psha> ubuntu 10.04?
[20:25:31] <andypugh> I am pretty sure I have seen screenshots of a Cyrilic EMC2
[20:25:40] <Guest178> psh: let me check :)
[20:25:58] <psha> andypugh: i'm pretty sure i'm looking at localized russian version of axis :)
[20:26:17] <psha> with cyrillic pyvcp labels
[20:26:25] <psha> btw thanks to all translators :)
[20:26:32] <Guest178> can I see them as well?
[20:26:36] <Guest178> any links?
[20:26:43] <psha> working out of the box
[20:26:51] <psha> what is your system?
[20:27:05] <Guest178> I', checking
[20:27:53] <Guest178> psha: it 8.04
[20:28:55] <psha> what emc version?
[20:29:22] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Internationalization
[20:29:46] <andypugh> I think that you might find that EMC2 translats itself if you set up the computer right.
[20:29:49] <Guest178> 2.3.0
[20:30:17] <Guest178> psha: 2.3.0 is the emc2 version
[20:32:38] <andypugh> I just converted my EMC2 version 2.30 to russian
[20:32:43] <Guest178> andypugh: thank you andy, the links seems useful
[20:32:49] <Guest178> great
[20:32:58] <Guest178> you did the translation?
[20:33:13] <Guest178> how do you write labels in russian
[20:33:22] <andypugh> It is just a case of typing (at the command line) export LANG=ru then restarting emc2...
[20:33:23] <Guest178> just write russian in the xml file?
[20:33:48] <Guest178> LANG seems to be
[20:33:49] <andypugh> That part I can't help with, I am afraid.
[20:33:52] <Guest178> a parameter
[20:34:06] <Guest178> where is it located?
[20:34:25] <Guest178> i mean
[20:34:39] <Guest178> do you do this while compiling emc2 or
[20:34:45] <Guest178> after the installation
[20:34:47] <Guest178> ?
[20:35:04] <andypugh> I am not sure, I am just messing about :-)
[20:35:18] <andypugh> But, if you open a terminal window, then type
[20:35:27] <andypugh> export LANG=ru
[20:35:34] <andypugh> the type
[20:35:35] <andypugh> emc
[20:35:51] <andypugh> You ought to see EMC2 open in Russian
[20:35:58] <psha> Guest178: lang is only needed to pick correct translation files
[20:36:14] <psha> unicode characters in pyvcp.xml file are treated independently
[20:36:41] <andypugh> LANG is an environment variable, set within the context of the terminal window, so you need to start emc2 from that terminal window to get it to work. I assume you can also set it globally.
[20:36:42] <psha> Guest178: please check your current locale
[20:36:54] <psha> open terminal and type 'locale'
[20:37:01] <Guest178> great
[20:37:11] <Guest178> thank you i do this right away...
[20:37:43] <psha> locale don't set anything )
[20:37:44] <Guest178> its all en-us-utf-8
[20:37:49] <psha> right
[20:37:50] <Guest178> ok
[20:37:58] <psha> may you run small test program?
[20:38:04] <Guest178> yes
[20:38:16] <psha> run wish
[20:38:19] <psha> it's tcl interpreter
[20:38:28] <psha> and give him two commands
[20:38:39] <Guest178> done
[20:38:51] <Guest178> which commands?
[20:39:01] <psha> label .test -text "вот здесь нафигачь какой-нибудь UTF-8 текст"
[20:39:14] <alexis_4315> where i can fine fpga channel...
[20:39:15] <psha> replace text with something you want to see :)
[20:39:25] <Guest178> wow!
[20:39:27] <Guest178> ok
[20:39:36] <Guest178> but how can i copy this text from here?
[20:39:42] <Guest178> i mean from this chat box?
[20:39:47] <alexis_4315> i need to replace Xilinx XC95108 CPLD with lattice thats some equal
[20:39:50] <psha> dunno, depends on client
[20:39:59] <psha> type some UTF-8 string there
[20:39:59] <Guest178> ok i found the way
[20:40:01] <psha> you want to see
[20:40:13] <Guest178> ok let me check
[20:40:15] <psha> i bet you have no cyrillic fonts so this string will fail for you :)
[20:40:35] <psha> second command is "pack .test"
[20:40:36] <Guest178> :)
[20:40:37] <Guest178> i'm checking...
[20:40:56] <psha> is there any label in the window?
[20:41:06] <psha> btw try some latin1 string
[20:41:25] <psha> to check that my first tcl program is working correct on systems other then debian/testing :D
[20:42:00] <Guest178> well i copy/pasted
[20:42:17] <Guest178> the command in the comman line whre the % sign is
[20:42:26] <Guest178> and
[20:42:31] <Guest178> pressed Enter
[20:42:40] <Guest178> it just wrote .wish
[20:42:48] <psha> .wish or .test?
[20:42:49] <Guest178> in the next line and did nothing more
[20:42:54] <Guest178> .test
[20:42:59] <Guest178> you're right :D
[20:43:09] <psha> and gave you another % prompt?
[20:43:13] <Guest178> yes
[20:43:22] <psha> so tell him 'pack .test'
[20:43:33] <Guest178> ok lets go...
[20:43:55] <Guest178> great!
[20:44:06] <Guest178> i can see the label with russian text in it
[20:44:07] <psha> utf chars are there ot not?
[20:44:10] <Guest178> just perfect
[20:44:13] <Guest178> yes
[20:44:20] <Guest178> but i haven't tried
[20:44:25] <Guest178> my own chars yet
[20:44:25] <psha> now try to give you chars
[20:44:31] <Guest178> let me do another test
[20:44:56] <psha> exit from wish and start it again
[20:47:13] <Guest178> ok
[20:47:21] <Guest178> it doesn't show the chars
[20:47:31] <Guest178> just a very small empty window
[20:47:49] <psha> so we have that it's not emc trouble
[20:47:56] <Guest178> wow
[20:47:58] <Guest178> really?
[20:48:03] <Guest178> how to fix it?
[20:48:20] <psha> wish is Tk interpreter and emc axis interface just uses it
[20:48:45] <Guest178> ok
[20:48:58] <psha> you have to find how it's possible to set fonts used by Tk
[20:48:59] <Guest178> should i add anything to locale
[20:49:19] <Guest178> Tk ok
[20:49:36] <Guest178> so if i manage to set fonts in tk
[20:49:51] <Guest178> i can be hopeful that
[20:49:58] <Guest178> things will go right
[20:50:06] <psha> yes
[20:50:07] <Guest178> thank you psha
[20:50:11] <psha> save this little test as test.tcl
[20:50:19] <psha> and just run it with wish test.tcl
[20:50:27] <Guest178> ok :)
[20:50:42] <Guest178> how to save it? :-p
[20:50:44] <psha> it'll save you a lot time :)
[20:51:12] <psha> open you favorite text editor and write two commands you used
[20:51:24] <Guest178> ah ok i see :p
[20:53:06] <psha> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/827430/how-do-you-set-the-default-font-for-tk-widgets
[20:53:12] <psha> maybe this may help you
[20:53:15] <JT-Hardinge> well I fixed it but don't know what I did... must have been a loose connection down by the encoder terminal block
[20:53:23] <psha> just pick correct font
[20:53:54] <Guest178> thanks for the link
[20:53:59] <Guest178> :)
[20:55:07] <Guest178> psha: u asked me to
[20:55:16] <Guest178> write something in latin?
[20:55:32] <psha> ?
[20:55:42] <psha> yes
[20:55:50] <Guest178> you wanted to test
[20:55:52] <psha> so you'll see at least part of the string
[20:55:54] <Guest178> something
[20:56:30] <psha> latin is not latin language but latin1 encoding :)
[20:56:42] <Guest178> ok
[20:56:47] <Guest178> do you want me
[20:56:57] <Guest178> to test something for you?
[20:57:03] <Guest178> i mean you helped me
[20:57:15] <psha> btw what is your tcl version?
[20:57:25] <Guest178> and as an appriciation
[20:57:43] <Guest178> i wanted to do a test if you asked me :)
[20:57:48] <Guest178> tcl version
[20:57:50] <Guest178> let's see
[20:58:05] <Guest178> how can i know that?
[20:58:41] <psha> dpkg -l | grep tcl
[20:59:24] <psha> 8.4
[20:59:31] <Guest178> it's version 8.4
[20:59:38] <Guest178> yes
[20:59:41] <psha> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/tcl
[20:59:52] <psha> so advice from tk cookbook won't help you
[21:00:00] <psha> http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/145
[21:00:20] <psha> oh, thats feature request, not cookbook
[21:01:05] <Guest178> i'm not a professional programmer
[21:01:17] <Guest178> and not very familiar with linux programming
[21:01:19] <andypugh> I don't think any of us are :)
[21:01:28] <andypugh> (Professional, that is_
[21:01:39] <Guest178> no
[21:01:52] <Guest178> i mean i'm nothing at linux actually :))
[21:02:35] <Guest178> i have done the electronics part all by myself but this programming part seems tricky
[21:03:00] <psha> Guest178: tcl is tricky for everyone :)
[21:04:17] <psha> many X programs allow setting default front with 'xrdb' program and .Xdefaults file
[21:04:26] <psha> but tk seem not to respect it
[21:04:43] <Guest178> i see...
[21:05:33] <Guest178> wow! psha:
[21:05:40] <Guest178> look i changed the font
[21:06:01] <Guest178> according to what the stackoverflow you gave
[21:06:08] <Guest178> tells
[21:06:11] <Guest178> to do
[21:06:27] <Guest178> and guess what:
[21:06:28] <Guest178> i can see my text :D
[21:07:50] <Guest178> now i donno how i can changed what happens in emc
[21:07:57] <Guest178> i means which files to change
[21:08:25] <psha> there _must_ be way to set it externally
[21:08:51] <Guest178> yes i think so
[21:09:15] <Guest178> are EMC axis gui files stored in anywhere
[21:09:19] <psha> but i see tcl second time in my life so it's not easy to find how it is)
[21:09:24] <Guest178> that can be found and changed?
[21:09:29] <psha> axis is python + tk
[21:09:30] <psha> not plain tcl
[21:09:31] <Guest178> i mean some .tcl files
[21:09:43] <psha> tcl file is in /usr/share/axis/tcl/axis/tcl
[21:09:49] <psha> tcl file is in /usr/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl
[21:10:21] <Guest178> wow how do you know all these thing ?
[21:10:29] <Guest178> youre just great!
[21:11:09] <psha> i'm professional programmer :D
[21:12:21] <Guest178> that's just i was looking for!
[21:12:31] <Guest178> thank you psha!
[21:12:34] <psha> i've managed to change font via xrdb/.Xdefaults
[21:12:44] <psha> but not found what is program name...
[21:14:21] <Guest178> do you i should change the font from there?
[21:14:39] <Guest178> do you mean!
[21:14:44] <Guest178> i menat :D
[21:14:48] <Guest178> meant :D
[21:16:18] <Guest178> psha
[21:16:27] <Guest178> thank you 1 million times
[21:16:33] <Guest178> i have to go
[21:16:54] <psha> last try :)
[21:16:58] <Guest178> 12:45 mid night
[21:17:02] <Guest178> ok
[21:17:04] <Guest178> tell me
[21:17:15] <psha> place following line
[21:17:26] <psha> *axis*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal-*-18-120-100-100-c-90-iso10646-1
[21:17:31] <psha> but with correct font
[21:17:36] <psha> in ~/.Xdefaults
[21:17:40] <psha> or ~/.Xresources
[21:17:59] <Guest178> ok
[21:18:11] <Guest178> should i change the * signes
[21:18:12] <psha> ~ = $HOME
[21:18:14] <psha> no
[21:18:16] <Guest178> to something?
[21:18:25] <Guest178> ok
[21:18:32] <psha> [asterisk]axis[asterisk]font: font-name
[21:18:45] <Guest178> ok
[21:18:50] <psha> it's wildcard
[21:18:51] <Guest178> let me try this
[21:18:55] <psha> and then run
[21:19:04] <psha> xrdb ~/.X[file where you placed this line]
[21:19:08] <psha> so it'll load it
[21:19:18] <psha> my tk honors theese settings
[21:19:36] <Guest178> :D
[21:19:56] <Guest178> I'm orders of magnitude slower tahn you
[21:20:03] <Guest178> both in typing and
[21:20:07] <Guest178> programming
[21:20:14] <Guest178> so please wait :D
[21:22:23] <Guest178> ok
[21:22:33] <Guest178> i think i need some more time to do this
[21:22:40] <Guest178> i'm tired to death right now
[21:23:00] <Guest178> can i find you here tomorrow?
[21:24:48] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[21:24:48] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-10-13.txt
[21:24:54] <Guest178> psha: i can't wait, sorry, this is my email:sarhangpour@gmail.com please send me your email address if you want to know the result
[21:25:17] <Guest178> thank you again
[21:25:27] <psha> yes
[21:25:32] <psha> you can find me here
[21:25:42] <Guest178> great
[21:25:50] <Guest178> bye for now
[21:25:59] <Guest178> my name is ali
[21:26:03] <Guest178> by the way :)
[21:26:05] <psha> :)
[21:29:08] <JT-Hardinge> Guest178: you can change your name when you log on if you like
[21:29:43] <psha> I'm happy i'm not working with tcl...
[21:30:22] <SWPadnos> mozmck, did you ever get HDMI/DVI cables?
[21:30:29] <SWPadnos> or order them anyway
[21:31:12] <skunkworks> mozmck: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/836037-post16.html :)
[21:36:43] <cradek> sounds cool
[21:37:50] <skunkworks> I assume it is something mozmck has been working on :)
[21:38:11] <cradek> seems pretty likely
[21:38:31] <jepler> * jepler just made his wichita fest hotel reservations. yay.
[21:38:32] <skunkworks> dad hooked up a wide screen monitor to the k&t. it will actually be very nice for developing - lots of horzontal room to put stuff.
[21:38:36] <cradek> me too, yay
[21:38:50] <mozmck> SWPadnos: I ordered some last night from monoprice
[21:39:07] <SWPadnos> ok, great. I just closd up your box without the cable :)
[21:39:27] <mozmck> did you put a little dog in it?
[21:39:38] <robin_sz> nooo
[21:39:48] <robin_sz> dont put dog in ...
[21:39:57] <mozmck> beagleboard :)
[21:40:22] <robin_sz> http://xkcd.com/325/
[21:40:25] <SWPadnos> yes, beagleboard and JTAG ICE+cable
[21:40:53] <mozmck> ok, thanks!
[21:41:57] <skunkworks> *developing -> making the machine work correctly.
[21:42:17] <mozmck> heh, skunkworks: we haven't exactly started playing with it yet, but it is in our heads :)
[21:42:45] <skunkworks> heh
[21:43:23] <skunkworks> I have noticed his opinion of emc has gotten more favorable. :)
[21:43:29] <mozmck> Lots of ideas and not enough time! Hopefully we will start looking at something like that before long.
[21:44:30] <mozmck> Yep. One of the next things on my plate is to get all our stuff working in emc, with configs ready to go.
[21:44:39] <skunkworks> very neat
[21:45:22] <mozmck> Other things keep getting in the way (like building stuff to ship), but I'm getting things knocked out little at a time.
[21:45:38] <cradek> it will be great to see you guys do it right with free software
[21:47:07] <mozmck> I would sure like it.
[21:47:24] <cradek> it's cool that you can put your configs right in the distribution so people can easily upgrade etc
[21:49:41] <cradek> wonder how long things will go on at fest - I only got a room until monday
[21:51:32] <andypugh> Build a room?
[21:51:47] <cradek> ?
[21:52:32] <andypugh> That CInci is big enough to machine a billet hotel room (or have I got the venue confused)
[21:52:57] <cradek> it's not quite that big! billet bed maybe.
[21:53:07] <andypugh> Capsule hotel?
[22:01:11] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge puts the hammer back up now
[22:15:38] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge tries out the new tool touch off...
[22:15:46] <L84Supper> what was the plan to control motion and access machine IO with EMC on the Beagleboard? What IO on the Beagleboard will be used?
[22:16:06] <skunkworks> JT-Hardinge: what was the following error issue?
[22:16:19] <JT-Hardinge> loose wire I think on the Z encoder
[22:16:49] <JT-Hardinge> never really found anything... the terminal blocks are some weird plug in ones
[22:18:01] <L84Supper> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02502.html "speeded-up EPP mode transfer for my boards" all that work for parallel?
[22:25:38] <JT-Hardinge> well crap the following error is back
[22:39:34] <JT-Hardinge> does anyone know if you can hot plug a 7i33TA card inputs
[22:54:37] <skunkworks> I don' t know what that means.
[22:57:58] <JT-Hardinge> pull the plug out while it is on and put it back in
[23:00:06] <JT-Hardinge> but I don't think that is the problem... I get 1.3v on A and 3.3v on /A to the 0v and the same on B and /B
[23:00:49] <JT-Hardinge> at the 7i33 card
[23:02:27] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, question about the 3x20. can the same card be used with either a 7i68 or a 6i68? In the photos, it looks like the PCIe connector is missing from the 3x20 when it's mounted on the 7i68
[23:03:27] <SWPadnos> JT-Hardinge, I have hot-plugged various things without it (knowingly) causing damage
[23:03:43] <SWPadnos> that's both on the 7i37 and my analog boards
[23:06:47] <JT-Hardinge> should I be able to use a meter between 0v and each encoder phase A, /A, B, /B, X and /X and move the encoder and see the voltage change?
[23:07:12] <SWPadnos> that depends on the encoder output
[23:07:23] <SWPadnos> if it's isolated, then you may not be able to see anything
[23:07:49] <SWPadnos> if it's just complementary pairs, then they should alternate between 0 and 5V
[23:08:24] <SWPadnos> you should be able to put a meter between A and /A and see the polarity of the voltage change from +5 to -5 as you move the encoder
[23:08:44] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[23:08:57] <SWPadnos> regardless of whether it's isolated or not (though the actual voltage may be lower, like 2V or something)
[23:09:24] <tom3p> but what is the problem that made you check the voltages?
[23:10:16] <JT-Hardinge> Z axis following error
[23:10:46] <JT-Hardinge> the voltage between A and /A stays steady at 3.3v when I move the encoder :/
[23:11:21] <SWPadnos> make sure you aren't turning it too fast. meters are very very slow devices (like a second of averaging)
[23:11:36] <SWPadnos> though it should average to around 0 if you turn it fast :)
[23:11:59] <JT-Hardinge> just bumping the allen wrench in the end of the ball screw with a 1/4" rod
[23:12:13] <SWPadnos> what's the resolution?
[23:13:45] <JT-Hardinge> 2000
[23:14:34] <tom3p> following error is tied to the encoder... but encoder is not usually 1st suspect. can you repeat position if you move slowly?
[23:17:47] <JT-Hardinge> if I move the screw the dro does not change in Axis
[23:18:11] <JT-Hardinge> I see no counts on the Z encoder either :/
[23:20:45] <JT-Hardinge> I took the encoder off and spin the shaft and see the DRO change in Axis
[23:21:15] <tom3p> um, is the encoder bone connected to the screw bone?
[23:21:36] <JT-Hardinge> it was AFAIK
[23:22:06] <JT-Hardinge> but you would think if slightly loose the drag would spin it somewhat
[23:22:25] <tom3p> the machine always tells the truth :(
[23:25:59] <JT-Hardinge> even with the clamp loose on the coupling it turns the encoder
[23:28:53] <JT-Hardinge> working fine now... dunno
[23:28:58] <JT-Hardinge> time to cook chow
[23:29:01] <tom3p> is this still true? "if I move the screw the dro does not change in Axis"
[23:29:10] <JT-Hardinge> no
[23:29:14] <tom3p> buon appetto
[23:29:19] <tom3p> ttito
[23:29:27] <JT-Hardinge> now all works for some unknown reason
[23:29:36] <tom3p> time 2 eat 4 sure
[23:29:47] <JT-Hardinge> cooking sausage suprise
[23:29:59] <JT-Hardinge> my wife loves it... cause I cook it
[23:30:05] <tom3p> i avoid any food with the word surprise in it
[23:30:36] <JT-Hardinge> sausages, potatoes, onion, bell pepper, beef stock
[23:30:51] <tom3p> yumm I like that sort of surprise
[23:31:01] <JT-Hardinge> don't need any spices either
[23:31:26] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge is off to the kitchen