#emc | Logs for 2010-10-09

[00:57:23] <atmega> what tool do you use to engrave name plates on that 2-layer plastic name tag stuff?
[00:59:59] <Jymmm> atmega: 37-03
[01:00:08] <Jymmm> is the closes I ever could find.
[01:00:13] <Jymmm> closest
[01:56:52] <atmega> what is 37-03?
[01:59:47] <atmega> Onsrud perhaps, but their web site seems to be flakey
[02:15:51] <Jymmm> atmega: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&expIds=17259,23756,24692,24878,24879,26644,26737,27007,27015&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=onsrud+37-03&cp=12&safe=off&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=15494471280310679249&ei=DNCvTN_PCJD2swOl9aSzDA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQ8wIwAg&os=contents
[03:48:58] <dmz_> anyone alive up in here tonight
[03:53:03] <Valen> no
[04:01:57] <dmz_> im looking for a detailed example of someone using a mesa 5i20 card
[04:02:38] <dmz_> i think thats the best bet for the machine im trying to control
[04:09:04] <skunkworks> I am using 2
[04:14:41] <dmz_> i have a large matsuura mill with a broken control..
[04:17:13] <dmz_> do you have pics up anywhere?
[04:17:49] <skunkworks> nothing organized
[04:18:16] <skunkworks> electronicsam.com
[04:18:22] <skunkworks> oops
[04:19:05] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
[04:19:28] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[04:20:26] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/mostio.JPG
[04:22:59] <dmz_> what drives did you use
[04:23:10] <skunkworks> amc
[04:23:41] <Valen> dmz_: I'm using a 5i23
[04:23:43] <Valen> that count?
[04:23:45] <dmz_> what about those i/o cards
[04:23:59] <dmz_> guess so
[04:24:44] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOHL_KlUdqw
[04:27:17] <skunkworks> mine? ebay opto22 boards
[04:27:39] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells
[04:30:57] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pAxqw5yeZM
[04:31:01] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1yffzq5INE
[05:14:06] <dmz_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJw_tYr35k
[05:14:15] <dmz_> this is like what i have
[05:16:10] <dmz_> mine's larger but the toolchanger works the same
[05:34:30] <alexis_4315> hi
[05:44:05] <dmz_> sup
[11:21:05] <alexis_4315> g morning
[11:31:41] <jthornton_> jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[13:23:09] <morficmobile> \o/
[13:28:01] <Paragon39> Does anyone know were to get hold of silicon-iron or electrical-rod?
[13:48:45] <morficmobile> when can absolute encoders be beneficial on a servo? (i'm thinking it might be nice to say home is when you reach home switch at absolute encoder value X), but not sure it's really helping, or where else it might be useful
[13:48:47] <elmo40> what is electrical-rod?
[14:15:13] <DaViruz> morficmobile: you don't have to do a complete revolution to sync with the index pulse like you do on a incremental encoder
[14:15:33] <DaViruz> (after a loss of power)
[14:15:35] <elmo40> absolute only needs to 'know' about home position once.
[14:15:39] <elmo40> well, the controller
[14:16:15] <elmo40> and yes, when you turn off the machine and back on, no need to home the machine. it knows exactly where everything is.
[14:22:24] <DaViruz> how do you determine when to change a pull stud?
[14:22:48] <DaViruz> time in spindle or nomber of tool changes? or something else?
[14:26:06] <morficmobile> DaViruz: changing based on the professional phrase of "it's fucked up" usually works, i never broke one, nor did i lose a tool because of one not holding
[14:27:00] <DaViruz> oh.
[14:28:23] <morficmobile> i am sure the manufacturer has a number like you sought after, but every shop i have been in only replaced some damaged, how they were bent or gouged though? dropped?
[14:29:18] <DaViruz> look fine to me, but they are second hand
[14:29:34] <DaViruz> no idea what kind of life they have endured.
[14:29:41] <morficmobile> i have not replaced one here for wear or damage, only added some for new holders and some since they were lacking the counterbore in the end that's needed for the thru cool little nozzle/hose/tube thing
[14:29:42] <cradek> what rpm is your spindle?
[14:29:51] <DaViruz> 6000
[14:29:52] <DaViruz> 4kW
[14:30:12] <morficmobile> hey SWPLinux, cradek
[14:30:21] <SWPLinux> hi
[14:30:31] <SWPLinux> (I say that only for me, not for cradek)
[14:30:48] <cradek> I bought all new studs for mine - I doubt I'll ever replace them (on a schedule) though unless they look worn or damaged
[14:31:01] <cradek> I bet some shops replace on a schedule - maybe the pull stud manufacturer recommends something
[14:31:15] <cradek> (I'd be nervous about used ones too)
[14:31:17] <morficmobile> my coworker robbed me, he filled his cup of coffee while it was still brewing, my second cup tastes WEAK
[14:31:36] <cradek> morficmobile: oldest trick in the book!
[14:32:01] <morficmobile> DaViruz: i agree with cradek, that not knowing anything about the studs is not comforting, here at least i know their age
[14:32:03] <SWPLinux> you can have some of this dark roasted Starbucks muck I have here, if you like
[14:32:15] <SWPLinux> just pop down to downtown Dallas and I'll give it to you :)
[14:32:39] <DaViruz> i'll probably get new ones then, they are pretty cheap after all
[14:32:53] <morficmobile> i'd rather drive home, i shouldnt be at work anyway, it's just wrong
[14:32:55] <DaViruz> i'd hate to wreck the spindle taper due to a holder coming loose
[14:33:01] <cradek> I got mine from maritool - they are good quality and not too expensive - maritool is awesome
[14:33:17] <cradek> also get the special socket if you don't have it, and use a torque wrench to install them
[14:33:27] <DaViruz> actually i was just trying to remember that name - maritool
[14:34:04] <DaViruz> was browsing around on cnczone trying to find the guy
[14:34:18] <morficmobile> DaViruz: i had more washers break and do that than pull stud problems
[14:34:28] <morficmobile> socket_for_studs++
[14:34:36] <DaViruz> washers?
[14:34:44] <DaViruz> belleville?
[14:35:56] <DaViruz> $80 for a ER* bt30 holder at maritool
[14:36:09] <DaViruz> the chinese guys want $37
[14:36:41] <cradek> I have about four of his ER40 - they are balanced for high speed
[14:36:50] <DaViruz> i don't doubt there is a difference in quality but i wonder if it'll matter for me
[14:37:14] <morficmobile> how much from toolmex? if you can find prices online?
[14:37:15] <cradek> yeah they cost more - between 'cheapest import possible' and 'high cost famous name' prices
[14:37:21] <morficmobile> belleville washers, yes
[14:37:30] <DaViruz> 2.5G at 20krpm
[14:37:36] <DaViruz> pretty nice
[14:38:18] <DaViruz> the chinese guy claims feasability at 10k, hm
[14:38:27] <cradek> 'feasability'? haha
[14:38:41] <DaViruz> my word, not his ;)
[14:38:41] <cradek> "I spun one up that fast once - it stayed in the machine just fine"
[14:39:14] <DaViruz> i've never gotten cheap holders before, why start now
[14:39:17] <DaViruz> :)
[14:39:18] <morficmobile> i was new here when the facemill gave the day shift guy trouble, my coworker ran it and he rotated the tool and stopped it and he hears a *clang*, so he calls me over and we keep looking, holder was able to hit the dogs, being the new guy, it took a while to get it through to them that is not the gears on the top we hear clanging, but the holder hitting the dogs
[14:40:57] <DaViruz> speaking of dogs, the previous owner lost the dogs for the spindle, do i make my own or can i get a set somewhere?
[14:41:11] <morficmobile> when i was measuring Z the next week on that machine, i figured there ought to be a number like "if applying torque X, then up to .00X" movement if all belleville washers are ok" and got a screw driver (big one was gone, so i figured, small one is gonna be tough, but just to get them to find out what's ok), well, when my test indicator ran out of travel i figured i don't have to waste time looking up numbers
[14:41:29] <morficmobile> showed it to programmer and maintenance and next day we had new belleville washers
[14:43:57] <morficmobile> trying to illustrate why i worry about studs less than the washers
[14:44:04] <cradek> morficmobile: very lucky it stayed in, sounds like
[14:44:20] <DaViruz> http://www.maritool.com/Indexable-Tooling-Micron-Boring-Bar-Set/c50_146/p784/PBOR50-Micron-Precision-Boring-Head-Set/product_info.html
[14:44:23] <DaViruz> do want!
[14:45:17] <cradek> get one for me too, would you?
[14:46:50] <morficmobile> if i had a hobby machine, i would still pickup kennametal tools, just because i am so damn used to their grades and chipbreakers
[14:50:58] <morficmobile> not sure how realistic this wish would be considering the cost of the bars :)
[14:51:48] <morficmobile> cradek: and yes, you should have seen the finish the facemill created back then, i am glad i am long past the "what does the new guy even know?" period :P
[14:52:23] <morficmobile> finish is not quite the right word for what it did :P
[14:57:10] <morficmobile> boss seems to go for emc2 really just for unattended run machines since he just bought a HAAS EC1600
[15:14:59] <DaViruz> maritools bt30 tightening fixture was pretty neat. pretty OK price too
[15:55:02] <morficmobile> neat little kit DaViruz
[16:08:54] <Paragon39> Dam... purchased a batch of five of what were described as parallel cards from ebay but they turned out to be dual port serial cards :-(
[16:15:10] <skunkworks> ebay - hit or miss.
[16:16:08] <Paragon39> Described as a this though! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300476118927&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
[16:16:24] <elmo40> i was thinking of the CAT or BT tools for my larger home-built, but like the quick changing HSK holders.
[16:19:00] <archivist> Paragon39, picture has a non parallel port connector though but give him negative feedback
[16:20:16] <archivist> or ask for a refund before you give feedback
[16:21:34] <Paragon39> archivist: non parallel port connector? It's a 25way female which is the same as a paraport connector right?
[16:21:48] <archivist> pic has three rows
[16:22:29] <archivist> thats not 25 way
[16:22:48] <Paragon39> Jeez... so it has.. never noticed that! Your eyes are better than mine! lol
[16:23:39] <archivist> about 48-50 pins there
[16:24:20] <archivist> board content looks wrong for serial though
[16:25:10] <archivist> he will be worried about negative feedback so should refund/replace
[16:25:48] <morficmobile> just contact him about a resolution first, they'll usually try to make good on it rather than getting an instant negative
[16:26:26] <Paragon39> Affraid I am no expert ;-) ... I sent him a nice message today so hopefully he should beside that the description is incorrect and that is what ebay go by from my understanding!
[16:27:01] <Paragon39> morficmobile: Totally Agree!
[16:29:17] <Paragon39> I think I may go for this one and hope it will work with the 7i43 card I purchased on thursday. It's a Sunix chipset not Netmos ... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PCI-PARALLEL-CARD-IEEE-1284-PRINTER-FREE-FAST-SHIPPING-/320599667622?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards&hash=item4aa53ab3a6
[16:40:10] <archivist> sunix seems to be a board maker not a chip supplier
[16:40:48] <archivist> if its their own chip we all need to know :)
[16:44:18] <Paragon39> Going for this one as it appears to be the best of the lot Peter from Mesa mention in a post that the OXSEMI PCI952 Long test >3x10^10 EPP ops error free!!! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220504956273&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
[16:45:48] <Paragon39> Can't wait to get the 7i43 as I have also been dabbling with VHDL ;-)
[17:52:04] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/content/videos/portable-garage-video.html
[18:07:14] <yoyoek> hello
[19:34:38] <motioncontrol> * motioncontrol slaps cradek around a bit with a large trout
[20:00:27] <bootnecklad> everyone needs to put this on their machines
[20:00:28] <bootnecklad> http://bootnecklad.pastebin.com/0wStH1ca
[20:03:28] <DaViruz> i love it
[20:03:56] <bootnecklad> going to put it on the top of my ttl processor im making!
[20:03:57] <bootnecklad> :D
[20:21:50] <DaViruz> i wonder how the tool builder imagined this should work
[20:22:16] <DaViruz> my spindle is driven by toothed belt with 27 tooth on spindle än 35 tooth on servo
[20:22:52] <DaViruz> the encoder is on the servo, and the spindle needs to stop at a specific angle for the tool changer to work
[20:23:18] <DaViruz> and there are no sensors that measure the angle of the spindle
[20:25:36] <Jymmm> What, if any, limitations are there with using mesa card(s)?
[20:26:09] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, your wallet gets a little bit lighter?
[20:26:20] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: anything else?
[20:27:30] <LawrenceG> I think they are great I/O devices... very adaptable to all kinds of applications besides EMC2
[20:28:12] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: If you know how to program/iface with the fpga
[20:33:40] <LawrenceG> knowledge rules
[21:16:14] <kgartner> so I just got a 5i20 mesa card, when I try to do the loadrt hm2_pci config=firmware=blahblah" I get "hm2_pci: unknown symbol hm2_register" (and unregister) am I missing something obvious here?
[21:18:24] <kgartner> I've tried this with emc lucid lynx 2.4 and 2.5pre packages and compilied from source
[21:23:43] <Paragon39> I ordered the Mesa 7i43 card on Thursday.... Starting to get into the VHDL coding too :-)
[21:30:57] <skunkworks> kgartner: did you try the hm2-servo -> 5i20 sample config?
[21:31:45] <kgartner> yea, that's what I tried first, same error
[21:32:42] <kgartner> paragon39: vhdl was never my cup of tea, I like C, it doesn't make my brain hurt
[21:32:47] <skunkworks> I think you have to install the mesa firmware from the repository. (go into synaptic package manager and search fro mesa)
[21:33:47] <kgartner> hostmot2-firmware-5i20 is the package I installed
[21:34:01] <skunkworks> oh
[21:36:19] <kgartner> hmm, well, if that is how it's supposed to work then I can poke around and figure out what I'm doing wrong
[21:36:33] <kgartner> I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track at least
[21:37:28] <skunkworks> I had started with the 5i20 sample config - I don't remember there being any issues.
[21:38:28] <kgartner> yea, I was hoping for a clean startup, but alas
[21:50:14] <DaViruz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LkuUM5m3A4&feature=related
[21:50:20] <DaViruz> cnc turning is such a joy to watch
[21:50:27] <DaViruz> i don't think i can grow tired of it
[22:00:31] <tom3p> psha: hope you get this, my Lucid install wouldnt boot because HD was larger than bios allowed. Lucid happily formatted the partition and copied the files to it, but at boot time, well it wasnt available !
[23:24:57] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/Spindlemotorenc.JPG
[23:25:47] <klick0> I have the pico systems universal stepper controller with gecko servo drive interface, recently when i hit the "power machine off" the servos have stopped disengaging, meaning once they have been engaged for the first time, they won't disengage anymore. I really don't think this happened even inbetween a emc update, although i did update the software, so perhaps that could be it, but has there been any update that would cause this?
[23:26:39] <klick0> It's really kind of an issue because by just killing the power to my control box the servo's go crazy basically, moving as far as 6-10 inches with force.. It used to just shut off just by closing the emc program, but not anymore
[23:27:25] <klick0> I guess one question i have is, what command coudl i give to the halcmd interface thing to attempt to disengage them? or check the status of that setting?
[23:27:30] <cradek> have you checked your wiring? have you metered whatever wire the amp enable is supposed to be on?
[23:28:10] <klick0> nope
[23:28:21] <cradek> skunkworks: did you give up putting it on the spindle itself?
[23:34:45] <skunkworks> no
[23:34:52] <skunkworks> I need both
[23:35:06] <skunkworks> one on the spindle motor and one on the spindle
[23:35:36] <skunkworks> * want both
[23:35:57] <Jymmm> skunkworks: is there a gearbox or something in between?
[23:36:57] <cradek> I'm satisfied with how mine taps with encoder on motor - but I can't peck tap
[23:37:17] <cradek> it only has to stay "pretty close" for "a few turns" to tap successfully
[23:39:31] <cradek> I want to helical mill a 1.5" deep hole with a .5" x 2 LOC 2 fl hss enc mill. should I be thinking lots and lots of shallow arcs at full dia and then no full depth finishing cut?
[23:40:30] <cradek> 1.5" of side cutting on a .5 tool seems like it can't possibly work
[23:41:12] <cradek> the hole dia is 1.1ish. I have predrilled it .75 already.
[23:42:17] <cradek> I will probably end up boring it - it has to be round and the right size
[23:42:32] <cradek> so forget it - trying a finishing pass is stupid - I'll just bore it afterward
[23:42:40] <cradek> * cradek talks to himself happily
[23:42:55] <DaViruz> carbide!
[23:43:13] <cradek> I'm not rich enough to have 2" LOC carbide sitting around!
[23:43:57] <DaViruz> what's LOC anyway?
[23:44:01] <cradek> length of cut
[23:44:18] <cradek> usable flute length
[23:44:23] <DaViruz> oh
[23:44:51] <cradek> LOC of 4x dia in HSS is wibblywobbly
[23:45:12] <DaViruz> i picked up a few long sandvik carbide end mills on ebay, very nice to have
[23:45:31] <cradek> send some over! can you fax them?
[23:45:52] <DaViruz> probably too skinny for you - 8mm dia
[23:46:10] <DaViruz> but LOC (nice acronym!) of about 50mm
[23:46:13] <cradek> yeah for this 15-20 would be much better
[23:46:20] <cradek> wow that's long for 8mm
[23:46:34] <skunkworks> Jymmm: yes - 16 speed gear box
[23:46:43] <DaViruz> they look wicked, i wouldn't dare abuse them
[23:48:44] <DaViruz> (my current (working) mill is way too weak to use that kind of cutting length anyway)
[23:52:14] <skunkworks> long boring video ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22dWg3GbywE
[23:54:01] <skunkworks> the top 5 black ssr's are controling the shift rails (tried to get both the spindle and the ssr's in the picture. ;))
[23:54:45] <skunkworks> the bottom 4 of the top 5 are the actual 16 gears in binary. (you can see it count up)
[23:55:11] <Paragon39> DaViruz: I liked the CNC lathe vid :-)
[23:56:28] <DaViruz> actually it turns out that lathe was mach3 controlled so i kind of grew a dislike ;)
[23:56:45] <skunkworks> it goes ccw for so many encoder counts with the spindle motor going 100rpm to shift
[23:56:46] <Paragon39> lol
[23:57:34] <DaViruz> seriously, it was pretty nice, i need to get a emco lathe in the future
[23:57:54] <skunkworks> I ran the spindle cw and ccw every other gear
[23:59:44] <Paragon39> I have one of these but it has a tool changer and runs under dos with denford software. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h16qI3TUJAQ&p=D7879CE25CA3D469&playnext=1&index=19