#emc | Logs for 2010-10-08

[00:04:31] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:09:59] <DaViruz> cradek: any pointers on which oil i should be using?
[00:10:22] <DaViruz> i'd hate for the machine to seize up again after i've got it running
[00:10:29] <DaViruz> it's likely it won't see very frequent use
[00:12:02] <skinnypup> oh you got it moving ?
[00:12:30] <DaViruz> no not yet, it's in the middle of the night here, but i'll be at it in the morning
[00:13:56] <cradek> can you pump the lube pump a few times every week?
[00:14:10] <cradek> I bet nothing will sit for months/years and not goop up
[00:15:22] <DaViruz> i guess i can throw a timer on it so it'll run automatically once a day or something
[00:21:55] <cradek> that would be best - but you'd have to watch the level - you sure as heck don't want to pump air in
[00:22:15] <DaViruz> it has a level sensor already
[00:22:43] <cradek> but do check all your metering valves once you get it going - I guarantee half of them are plugged solid
[00:24:16] <DaViruz> i'll have to find/fix the leak also, i expended 3 liters of oil in a few hours
[00:24:42] <cradek> oh - if there's any leak before the metering nozzles, they won't let a drop through - it takes fairly high pressure
[00:24:52] <cradek> sounds like that's your main problem
[00:25:29] <DaViruz> yeah, the pump actually toggles a output saying it can't reach operating pressure
[00:32:28] <Valen> if the leak is small it'll pump through the leak in preference to the port
[00:32:37] <Valen> assuming it reaches pressure
[00:33:12] <Valen> If your wanting to preserve it then you could look at greases and the like
[00:34:35] <Valen> but you would have to clean it all off before using it
[00:42:13] <Howard> Valen: You mentioned that you have a source of cheap second hand robot ?
[00:42:53] <Valen> not me?
[00:43:28] <Howard> OK sorry. I thought it was you :-)
[00:43:40] <Howard> Are you in Aussie ?
[00:45:56] <Howard> My mistake it was Robin.
[02:23:31] <pcw_home> Howard: did you get your configuration issue straightened ont?
[02:29:46] <atmega> those onsrud cutters are pretty expensive
[02:40:23] <John_f_> general machining question: I want to true up a piece of steel that was flame cut. So its kind of hard where it was cut. I am using a 2 in dia face mill - 4 inserts. I just need to take off about .030" I want to machine it dry. I tried 500 RPM and 3.8 in/min. chips are orange/white hot. Is this really bad? should I use lower RPM?
[02:40:46] <cradek> carbide inserts?
[02:40:50] <John_f_> yes
[02:41:25] <cradek> that is 250 sfm which seems fine for carbide
[02:41:58] <John_f_> yes but are white hot chips generaly OK?
[02:42:01] <cradek> it might just be super hard - can you anneal it?
[02:42:14] <cradek> no, that doesn't seem right to me either
[02:42:20] <skinnypup> i tend to clean it up with angle grinder or belt sander , way cheaper than cutters or inserts
[02:42:26] <John_f_> It is not super hard I can cut it with a file but it is hard
[02:42:31] <cradek> angle grinder will sure do it
[02:43:25] <John_f_> that will be alot of work. The flame cut was with a machine and is 2in wide. It is a really good flame cut and almost looks like a saw cut
[02:43:55] <skinnypup> yeah i chewed up a few cutters before deciding no flame/plasma cut pieces without pre cleaning the edge
[02:44:17] <Valen> we normally grind off the surface layer of flame cut stuff
[02:44:29] <Valen> its way harder than the base steel
[02:44:37] <Valen> but we use some fairly tough steels
[02:44:51] <cradek> I think I'd try a much cheaper (hss) cutter and very slow speed and flood coolant and let it grind away
[02:45:02] <cradek> no way would I risk four $30 inserts
[02:45:28] <cradek> (if it's a one-off anyway)
[02:45:32] <Valen> you can machine it aparently, but you need to look up the specs on the hardened state of the steel
[02:45:52] <Valen> ceramic inserts would work ;-> they are sposed to make white hot chips
[02:47:01] <John_f_> Thanks for the advice. Of course I am just a HSM so The steel is used and so is the face mill. I think it is just mild steel. Its from a piece that was 2 X 7 X 50"
[02:47:30] <cradek> maybe your inserts are dull (or they are now)
[02:47:33] <Valen> any paticular reason not to use the coolant?
[02:47:56] <cradek> coolant on carbide would make it worse wouldn't it?
[02:48:27] <John_f_> I didn't want to mess with it tonight (the coolent) and I though a 2 in mill would throw it all over my shop
[02:48:56] <cradek> can you try 3/8 or 1/2 hss and flood coolant? 40-50 sfm?
[02:48:57] <Valen> I was under the impression carbide liked cooling
[02:49:05] <Valen> needs lots of it though
[02:49:14] <cradek> I think it likes heat, and hates thermal shock
[02:49:14] <Valen> partially cooling it causes issues
[02:49:18] <cradek> right
[02:49:29] <Valen> ceramic likes/needs heat
[02:49:40] <Valen> it works by heating it to red hot so its soft to cut
[02:50:21] <John_f_> yes I think if you use coolant with carbide you need lots of it. I have some indexable end mills that have holes for coolant
[02:50:36] <Valen> yeah, don't let it get hot in the first place
[02:50:52] <Valen> none is better than some, and loads is better than none
[02:51:02] <cradek> I sit corrected
[02:51:10] <John_f_> but my machine dosent have coolant through the spindle
[02:51:21] <cradek> what luxury that would be
[02:52:12] <Valen> we have to drill a deep round and true hole for one job
[02:52:21] <Valen> into titanium and stainless
[02:52:37] <Valen> we are thinking of predrilling with a regular (cobalt) drill
[02:52:51] <Valen> then following up with a carbide end mill in the lathe
[02:53:07] <Valen> and making a little sleevy thing to flush both with coolant
[02:53:08] <cradek> no such thing as drilling a round and true hole :-)
[02:53:18] <Valen> relativley
[02:53:25] <cradek> why not use a boring head? is it a small hole?
[02:53:35] <Valen> basically making a 16mm Od 15mm ID pipe
[02:59:40] <John_f_> * John_f_ goes away to try cutting slower with coolant
[02:59:52] <Valen> buttloads or none rember ;->
[03:44:25] <willeo6709> I'd wind it up about 1100 rpm, 15-20 ipm - take a chip- too light a chipload just wipes out the inserts.
[03:45:35] <willeo6709> the hole - best round hole machines ii have are monarch ee's and a pratt 2a jig bore
[03:45:44] <willeo6709> and i forgot the moore jig grinder
[03:58:01] <spasticteapot> Does anyone know how much it costs to have things cut on a waterjet?
[04:19:17] <Valen> depends what your cutting and how much cutting your doing
[04:19:26] <Valen> basically they charge you for material and jet time
[04:41:10] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[05:03:53] <spasticteapot> Is there a chart of cutting rates for different materials?
[05:39:50] <WalterN> spasticteapot: depends on the tool too.. for the weird materials ask the tool manufacturer
[07:36:27] <elmo40> i think the going rate is between $50-$70/hr
[07:36:45] <elmo40> i know to run our horizontal or 5-axis, it is from 150 to 200/hr!
[08:40:50] <MattyMatt> is there a way of print # variables to a console or file?
[08:41:40] <Valen> there is a message function in axis
[08:41:46] <Valen> well not "in axis" as such
[08:41:52] <Valen> but you know what i mean
[08:42:09] <MattyMatt> I feel the urge to debug this like any other program :) I've narrowed down the endless loop to the o100 wrapper funcs
[08:43:41] <MattyMatt> I've worked through it in my head several times tho. it looks right to me, I can only assume the nested subroutine calls are broken in my version
[08:44:57] <Valen> the function does exist
[08:57:02] <alex_joni> MattyMatt: you can use (debug,#foo) from the g-code
[08:57:12] <alex_joni> but check the docs
[08:57:29] <alex_joni> I think you get a popup with the value, and a program interruption in that spot
[09:01:49] <MattyCNC> that'll be fine for now. I was just about to try (msg,#foo,#bar)
[09:06:55] <MattyCNC> bleh, I don't want to cut air waiting to get to the debug output :)
[09:08:15] <MattyCNC> I'll just inline the troublesome sub into the 2 wrappers for now
[09:18:03] <MattyMatt> yeah it all works fine now
[11:10:08] <nullie_> аыв
[11:14:09] <MattyMatt> I issued a T1 command, and the tool table has 1 1 10 3.0 as the first entry, but emc status shows tool_in_spindle=0
[11:15:02] <jthornton> did you do a M6 and a G43?
[11:15:18] <MattyMatt> no M6 no, but g43 yes
[11:15:45] <jthornton> T1 doesn't change the tool M6 does
[11:17:25] <MattyMatt> ah ok, thanks
[11:17:38] <jthornton> yw
[11:18:32] <MattyMatt> I gotta learn TC sometime :) I'm remembering why I found doing it manually in blender seemed easier tho
[11:19:06] <jthornton> and don't forget when you touch off tools make sure you don't have an offset active in the current coordinate system
[11:19:27] <jthornton> what is TC?
[11:19:36] <MattyMatt> tool compensation
[11:19:48] <jthornton> ah ok
[11:20:17] <MattyMatt> I've been making gcode for months that only works with my trusty 3mm endmill
[11:22:53] <jthornton> look in the User Manual in the Tool Compensation section, there is some examples of using cutter radius compensation
[11:23:47] <MattyMatt> yeah I need to read it all thouroughly. I'm not actually changing tools tho, I just want to tell it the diameter of the tool I touched off with
[11:24:15] <MattyMatt> so I haven't used any tool length offsets anywhere
[11:24:28] <jthornton> that you can do with G41.1 in your program
[11:26:57] <MattyMatt> or I can just add D1 to every G41 & G42 line?
[11:27:29] <jthornton> if you have the diameter programmed in your tool table you can
[11:28:04] <MattyMatt> neat, that'll do me for next try. this piece of wood is ruined anyway
[11:28:50] <jthornton> just make sure you make a lead in move with your tool and it can be in outer space
[11:29:38] <jthornton> try it on the ruined wood lol
[11:36:29] <MattyCNC> http://pastebin.ca/1957479
[11:37:07] <MattyCNC> on loading it claims line 97 is too small leadin, but #30 is tool diameter
[11:37:43] <jthornton> it is usually correct in it's claims :)
[11:38:45] <MattyCNC> g0 x[#1 + #30] y[#2 + 4] g41 d1 g0 x#1 y[#2 +4]
[11:42:37] <MattyCNC> my tool.tbl http://pastebin.ca/1957484
[11:42:44] <jthornton> what diameter do you have in your tool table for tool 1
[11:43:09] <jthornton> is your machine mm or inch?
[11:43:15] <MattyCNC> mm
[11:46:02] <jthornton> what happens if you put G41.1 D#30?
[11:48:37] <MattyCNC> it accepts that one now
[11:49:27] <MattyCNC> now it's refusing to helix mill a 3mm hole with a 3mm tool :) I'll change that to peck
[11:50:00] <MattyCNC> plunge will do for now
[11:51:46] <jthornton> I get the same error about lead in
[11:53:40] <jthornton> next is line 48, same for you?
[11:54:14] <MattyCNC> yep, and with that fixed, the 1mm fillet in the outline stops it
[11:54:37] <MattyCNC> so much for toolsize agnostic gcode :p
[12:02:56] <jthornton> just fix one at a time, interesting code
[12:04:05] <MattyMatt> I'll make them all 2mm fillets, and save the file separately, so I can fix the fine tool version later
[12:04:51] <MattyMatt> I was doing it with a 0.8mm pcb mill, but that snapped
[12:05:05] <jthornton> do you have a photo of a finished one?
[12:07:35] <MattyMatt> here's a version, the template he's using is the standard spec one http://repstrapbertha.blogspot.com/2009/12/snow-today-means-its-another-mendel-day.html
[12:10:27] <jthornton> gotta run now
[12:10:40] <MattyMatt> machine parts from plastic chopping boards :) it's almost embarrassing but they work
[12:31:48] <atmega> I've been using cheap plastic cutting boards for stock for boat stuff
[12:32:51] <MattyMatt> I've found HDPE ones 24x18x1". way cheaper than from a stock shop and 6 colours available :)
[12:35:26] <atmega> and my entire router is made of HDPE that the guy also sells as cutting boards
[12:52:20] <MattyMatt> do you use proper 2 flute mills for plastic? I was melting delrin with a 4 flute
[12:52:44] <JT-Hardinge> I use a single flute from Onsrud
[12:53:46] <MattyMatt> these 2 flute pcb mills gave no problems, but at 0.8 mm they can't hold much heat
[12:54:44] <atmega> I've been melting acrylic, hdpe, uhmw with 2 flute cutters, and slightly less with small 3 flute mills
[12:55:20] <atmega> I'd use a single flute from Onsrud, but I have an aversion to paying that much for a tiny piece of metal.
[12:56:27] <MattyMatt> I'll be in the position to afford the economic stuff rather than the "economy" stuff soon :)
[12:57:11] <atmega> I paid for software yesterday, that was fairly traumatic
[12:59:41] <MattyMatt> I'm getting a bigger spindle before I start spending good money on tools. 1/8" and below cost more than 1/4" shanked ones
[13:05:52] <broedel> hi all from sunny germany
[13:19:10] <atmega> the onsrud 1/4" shank do seem to be much cheaper than the 1/8
[13:21:15] <Valen> anybody done much work here with tool length offsets and manual tool changes?
[13:21:22] <alex_joni> this is cool: http://www.automotto.org/entry/automobiles-from-nuts-and-bolts-well-that-s-minimalistic/
[13:35:29] <JT-Hardinge> cool, but that has got to be a rough ride
[13:39:10] <alex_joni> JT-Hardinge: it's all relative
[14:05:18] <MattyMatt> my head's spinning from the onsrud catalog :) so many tool shapes
[14:13:01] <Jymmm> http://www.etsy.com/listing/31122623/1933-ford-hot-rod-fear-factor
[14:13:31] <Jymmm> http://www.etsy.com/listing/48373644/tubs-the-scrap-metal-puppy
[14:19:28] <cradek> I like Tubs
[14:19:41] <Jymmm> =)
[14:20:03] <MattyMatt> something to do with unwanted fasteners I suppose :)
[14:31:14] <MattyMatt> this g41.1 isn't working. in fact I think it's cutting to the right of the programmed line now
[14:32:54] <MattyMatt> in which case there's a simple fix :) g42.1
[14:34:54] <MattyCNC> nope it's cutting on the line. this slot is one tool diameter too big
[14:36:20] <JT-Work> the entrance move can make a difference too.
[14:36:38] <Jymmm> The only sad part is he's been a member since 2008, and has only sold 46 items. Even if everything sold for $250/ea, that's $7250 over two years.
[14:36:54] <MattyCNC> aargh. I picked a fine time to try and master compensation, after I've announced the sale of the finished articles
[14:38:27] <MattyCNC> jymmm, that would be a viable income for me right now :) as extra income that's not struggling, by artist standards
[14:38:29] <JT-Work> start a new file so you can always revert back
[14:39:48] <MattyCNC> I have done. if necessary I'll add the compensation manually like I've been doing since day 1
[14:40:15] <alex_joni> I like Parker more: http://www.etsy.com/listing/39082756/parker-a-nuts-and-bolts-dog-sculpture?ref=v1_other_2
[14:46:05] <MattyCNC> does the Axis preview show the compensated or the uncompensated path?
[14:46:40] <cradek> it always shows the center of the tool's actual motion
[14:47:45] <MattyCNC> aha looks like I'v got it. I substituued #30 with literal 3.0
[14:51:45] <MattyCNC> #30 should have been alright as a global tho? I set it once before calling any subs
[14:52:22] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_main.html#cha:O-Codes
[14:52:49] <cradek> #30 is a local variable in subs
[14:55:36] <MattyCNC> my reading of that says it's a global, if you can use it for return values :p
[14:56:04] <cradek> "On return from the subroutine, the values of parameters #1 through #30 (regardless of the number of arguments) will be restored to the values they had before the call."
[14:56:20] <cradek> I don't see how you can read it that way...? Are we reading different stuff?
[14:56:47] <cradek> "Subroutines do not have "return values", but they may change the value of parameters above #30 and those changes will be visible to the calling code"
[14:57:45] <MattyCNC> duh "above #30" I read as "#30 and above" :) mea culpa
[14:57:51] <cradek> aha
[15:10:45] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Have you used 123 blocks?
[15:13:39] <JT-Work> yes
[15:14:08] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Aren't the unthreaded holes suppose to be thru holes, so you can bolt two blocks together?
[15:14:28] <JT-Work> never did that before
[15:14:58] <Jymmm> oh
[15:17:09] <JT-Work> I guess you can use them how you like
[15:17:56] <Jymmm> Well, I went to buy one yesterday, the threaded holes are 3/8-16, but the unthreaded were smaller than that and the bolt couldn'at pass thru
[15:18:04] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as bootnecklad
[15:20:32] <JT-Work> that is the way mine are too, except for the solid one I have that has some blind holes or something
[15:21:24] <Jymmm> hmmmm, weird.
[15:21:42] <JT-Work> and it used to belong to a guy name F.A. Frisbie
[15:22:07] <JT-Work> what's weird?
[15:22:34] <Jymmm> That the unthreaded holes cna't be used to bolt blocks together
[15:23:16] <JT-Work> just have to use a 1/4-20 bolt through
[15:23:57] <Jymmm> Right, but if one block is already tapped, no need to use a nut.
[15:27:15] <JT-Work> * JT-Work is off to get the hydraulic pump rebuilt for the backhoe
[15:29:05] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4638
[15:45:58] <Grommit> Should it be possible to upgrade from 8.04 to 10.04 through update manager or will I lose (or not install) RTAI components?
[15:48:06] <cradek> you will lose emc and rtai if you do it that way. you would have to add them again afterward. I have not tried doing it that way but it may work fine.
[15:49:11] <Grommit> So, the other way would be to get the livecd and install that way (over my 8.04 installation)...?
[15:49:19] <cradek> yes
[15:49:28] <cradek> after backing up stuff you need, of course
[15:49:44] <Grommit> ok, thanks
[15:52:21] <psha> cradek: live cd is stock ubuntu with fixed kernel + rtai + emc packages?
[15:52:45] <psha> or something else?
[15:56:52] <cradek> psha: yes pretty much
[15:57:18] <cradek> psha: it makes first installation very easy for users
[15:57:44] <psha> so upgrading 8.04 to 10.04 + custom kernel + packages will work
[15:58:07] <cradek> probably, but I have not tried it
[16:01:14] <elmo40> liveCD is so much easier.
[16:01:59] <Jymmm> psha: Is there a specific reaosn for wanting 10.04 other than it's newer?
[16:02:18] <elmo40> 2.4.x EMC ?
[16:02:34] <cradek> you can run emc2.4 on 8.04 just fine
[16:02:53] <MattyMatt> Jymmm that one's only a single, try this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-PCI-PARALLEL-PRINTER-2-PORT-CARD-SUPPORT-WINDOWS-7-/110593683904
[16:03:28] <psha> Jymmm: for me it's 2.6.32 kernel
[16:03:39] <psha> which support realtek gigabit NIC's
[16:04:04] <Jymmm> psha: And you need a gigabit ethernet card on your cnc?
[16:04:14] <psha> i need any card on my cnc )
[16:04:41] <psha> but onboard one is rtl
[16:05:03] <psha> and i don want to use only pci slot for another nic
[16:05:03] <Jymmm> psha: So, you would rather go throught the process of mucking with everything instead of picking up a $5 nic?
[16:05:28] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: what chipset?
[16:06:33] <MattyMatt> nfi, but it'll be ancient enough to be supported :) who makes new comms chips these days?
[16:06:40] <psha> Jymmm: my brothers notebook was running for half a year with custom kernel with my own fixes so changing kernel is not issue for me :)
[16:07:15] <Jymmm> k
[16:07:24] <MattyMatt> i've seen pcie ones here too, so I suppose someone is making new chips
[16:07:26] <psha> for production environmen it's better to use 8.04 if it's already there and working
[16:40:32] <Jymmm> jt http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/11029
[16:59:56] <MattyMatt> i've got 2 of those in MCA if anyone needs them :)
[17:32:57] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Only if you have the RLL hdd's to go with it.
[17:33:06] <Jymmm> This is very cool... http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/08/johnny-depp-drops-by-england-school-in-pirates-costume/?hpt=Sbin
[17:51:39] <MattyMatt> oddly enough, my MCA machine has SCSI drive :)
[17:53:32] <MattyMatt> 270MB, but I could upgrade it
[17:54:57] <MattyMatt> i think even recent SCSI drives can revert to 8 bit scsi 1 operation
[17:56:01] <MattyMatt> 8GB is the largest I'd try tho, or it mike break the bios
[17:56:26] <MattyMatt> strange typo, sorry mike
[18:36:42] <DaViruz> cradek: quill is alive! i forced it all the way up yesterday, today i removed the seals around it, soaked everything in spray way oil and applied a lot of force on it and jogged it downwards simoultaneously
[18:36:52] <DaViruz> also i got a heater in there
[18:37:12] <skinnypup> hey good stuff :)
[18:37:15] <DaViruz> when i reached the lower limit it ran fine on it's own!
[18:37:27] <DaViruz> and did 10000mm/min no problems
[18:37:42] <DaViruz> very nice, was kind of worried for a while
[18:38:15] <skinnypup> scared the pants off me when mine stuck too
[18:39:19] <DaViruz> another problem quickly popped up instead
[18:39:43] <DaViruz> the hydraulic pump for the drawbar pusher began making a terrible noise
[18:40:00] <DaViruz> turns out the coupling between the motor and pump had been ground to dust..
[18:40:49] <DaViruz> and i have nooo idea where to find one on a saturday :(
[18:44:45] <Jymmm> devon two part epoxy =)
[18:45:03] <Jymmm> devcon
[18:59:41] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[19:13:44] <motioncontrol> * motioncontrol slaps mikeggg around a bit with a large trout
[19:13:48] <motioncontrol> * motioncontrol slaps mikeggg around a bit with a large trout
[19:18:59] <MattyMatt> MattyMatt is now known as Frogmilla
[19:42:52] <Frogmilla> Frogmilla is now known as MattyMatt
[19:58:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: So where you be now? Germany? Thailand? Antartica?
[20:57:36] <Connor> what does EMC mean when it says, E Word with no G76, M66,M67,M68 ?
[20:57:58] <cradek> you have an E word in your gcode, but none of those codes (the ones which can use an E word) are there
[20:58:46] <Connor> OKay, what the heck is a E code for then?
[20:59:07] <psha> input/output number i think
[20:59:09] <cradek> that's the wrong question - the right question is why is there an E in your gcode?
[20:59:42] <Connor> Because I'm setting it up to be used for extruding plastic..
[21:00:51] <cradek> what is the line of gcode that's causing you trouble?
[21:01:46] <Connor> G1 X10.0 E360 F1500.0
[21:03:56] <cradek> ok, that's invalid gcode because G1 ... E is not accepted in EMC
[21:04:15] <cradek> what are you trying to do with that line of gcode?
[21:04:32] <skunkworks> spindle hooked up. Now we need to mount an encoder to the spindle motor for shifting.
[21:04:33] <Connor> no clue.. it's been exported from a stl file into gcode..
[21:04:52] <skunkworks> then I can test the gearshift comp
[21:04:53] <cradek> sounds like you need to work on the export to get valid gcode
[21:17:59] <Jymmm> is gmail imap out for anyone?