#emc | Logs for 2010-10-07

[00:04:30] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:18:27] <cradek> weird - I haven't seen that. I usually clear them with the control-space shortcut. I'll try it later.
[00:19:47] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes SWPadnos with a stick
[00:20:34] <PCW> Pretty sure Andy P is using 10.04 with our PCI card
[00:25:19] <KimK> Oh, a control-space shortcut? I'll try that later too.
[01:24:55] <skunkworks> tool chain and changer seem to be working good
[01:25:49] <skunkworks> The final issue was a spring loaded cam that activated a slow down valve. It was loose on the shaft and would randomly change position.
[01:32:20] <skunkworks> again - I think the only tools the previous owners had was a chisel and hammer
[01:38:49] <Valen> we have 10.04 and mesa working
[01:39:00] <Valen> 5i23
[01:39:04] <Valen> out of the box
[01:39:29] <skunkworks> sweet - I am running 2 5i20 on 10.04
[01:41:15] <Jymmm> 5i20 being paraport?
[01:41:42] <LawrenceG> 5i20 is mesa pci card
[01:41:44] <skunkworks> pci
[01:41:49] <Jymmm> ah, cool
[01:42:52] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/computermesa.JPG
[01:43:07] <Jymmm> Hey, could someone help me with some more math?
[01:43:34] <Jymmm> skunkworks: You canduit with panduit!
[01:43:44] <skunkworks> hwh
[01:43:46] <skunkworks> heh
[01:44:50] <PCW> I knew that would trigger a Panduit rant...
[01:45:03] <LawrenceG> took apart a micrwave today.... 1st one that had a solid state HV powersupply instead of a big iron transformer
[01:45:21] <skunkworks> pcw: did you see the 3 axis helix video?
[01:45:24] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: pics!
[01:45:26] <PCW> Switcher?
[01:46:01] <PCW> Yes very impressive, whats next, spindle?
[01:46:13] <LawrenceG> yea, a transformer like a TV flyback... not much bigger
[01:46:58] <skunkworks> yes
[01:47:10] <skunkworks> tool changer is working.
[01:47:20] <PCW> Wow, HF supply must cut down on shipping costs
[01:47:21] <skunkworks> then pallet and table rotation
[01:47:32] <Jymmm> Let's say the distance between 0 and 4 is 6 inches horizontally along 'A'. How do I determine the distance (height) between A and C at the '4' marker? http://i51.tinypic.com/dr9j11.jpg
[01:47:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: b/a*6
[01:47:32] <Jymmm> But what I forgot was to take into consideration of the thickness of 'c'. How can I determine the thickness at an angle of 'c', when it's 0.250" flat?
[01:47:48] <Jymmm> it's the thickness I need
[01:47:51] <PCW> Is that that indexed table?
[01:48:05] <skunkworks> yes
[01:48:08] <LawrenceG> sorry Jymmm most is in the dumpster now.... kept the magnetron (for the 2 magnets), the power supply, a few nice microswitches, a couple of nice fans, some overtemp switches
[01:48:11] <skunkworks> 5deg
[01:48:27] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Well, jump in!
[01:49:14] <PCW> Good electrocution potential with uwave power supplies, beware
[01:49:19] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: I'll give ya a bunny...
[01:49:27] <Jymmm> (\__/)
[01:49:27] <Jymmm> (='.'=)
[01:49:27] <Jymmm> (")_(")
[01:50:22] <LawrenceG> PCW, well aware... have been saving transformers for a 2500v supply for a home brew linear amp (ham radio)
[01:51:01] <LawrenceG> 2500v 1a supplies dont give second chances
[01:51:57] <PCW> Last tube stuff I worked on bit me (600V) woke up on the ground wondering what happened
[01:52:23] <PCW> Dont like tube stuff any more
[01:53:48] <LawrenceG> yea.. I hit the anodes on a transmitter one time.... I ended up across the room... the muscle reaction is truly amazing
[01:54:28] <LawrenceG> and the rf burn on my pinky finger was an unusual injury
[01:55:17] <PCW> Last time I played with magnetrons I was discharging 10KV capacitors into surplus radar tubes, lighting up neon bulbs 50 feet away (young and stupid...)
[01:56:13] <LawrenceG> now there are no more fingers inside transmitters without things being unplugged and well discharged.... cool now I know what I can do with that magnetron :}
[01:56:38] <skunkworks> I watched a spark jump from a circuit board to our electronic tech. As I was saying 'Don't measure that board - it is 5v logic floating on top of 20kv.'
[01:57:03] <PCW> Yow!
[01:57:18] <skunkworks> (10Kw laser)
[01:57:31] <LawrenceG> hard on test gear! as well as test persons!
[01:58:28] <PCW> My father used to say "don't do that, you'll run up the electric bill"
[01:58:39] <skunkworks> it actually jumped to to the volt meter probe as he was reaching for it. I still hurt him a bit
[02:00:34] <PCW> bbl
[02:15:22] <cradek> skunkworks: yay!
[02:15:49] <skunkworks> cradek: Thanks - it is coming together
[02:17:39] <Valen> worst I did was charge up a transformer with DC then break the circuit whilst holding onto the wire
[02:17:56] <Valen> *that* woke me up
[02:22:06] <cradek> remember making fun of my antique laptop? I put a new old stock (ebay) 2048x1536 screen in it
[02:22:18] <skunkworks> Nice!
[02:22:34] <skunkworks> I can still make fun of it... ;)
[02:22:35] <cradek> it was 1600x1200 which is still pretty good by today's standards
[02:22:59] <skunkworks> right - I was suprised at that.
[02:23:43] <cradek> you can make fun of it, but I'll just shake my head sadly at what you folks who buy new machines are forced to use... :-)
[02:23:57] <skunkworks> heh
[02:24:15] <atmega> can you read stuff on that?
[02:24:17] <cradek> I have about $300 total in this machine and it's awesome!
[02:24:28] <skunkworks> I splurged. My last laptop I bought was in 03ish
[02:25:13] <skunkworks> jej
[02:25:14] <skunkworks> heh
[02:25:49] <skunkworks> My coworkers hates my screen resolution. Can't read that small!
[02:26:08] <cradek> can always use a bigger font - they look wonderful
[02:28:44] <Valen> thats a pretty high res lol
[02:29:08] <Valen> my dads screen in his laptop is failing
[02:29:13] <Valen> 17"
[02:32:11] <Mendel|somethin> hi :)
[02:32:19] <KimK> cradek: I'd like to see a picture of your laptop, sounds like the one I need to make!
[02:32:59] <cradek> KimK: if you're seriously thinking about it, buy the panel now - someone's found a bunch and they're < $100 on ebay
[02:35:15] <cradek> otherwise it looks like the going price for the panel is 300-500
[02:43:17] <dmz_> anyone running fanuc servo drives with emc?
[02:44:08] <cradek> I'm running a drive with a fake tach signal generated in hal
[02:48:13] <dmz_> i have a fanuc 3000c(oldddd) control thats broke down and missing parts but the drives are still there
[02:48:56] <cradek> analog input drives?
[02:49:47] <dmz_> i would think so but i dont have schematics
[02:59:47] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[03:03:27] <cradek> what
[03:03:39] <cradek_> bye, me
[03:03:47] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[03:04:05] <SWPadnos> heh. maybe it isn't the loggers fault this time
[03:15:31] <Jymmm> If 'a' is 0.250
[03:16:59] <Jymmm> How do I determine how thick 'c' is? http://i51.tinypic.com/dr9j11.jpg
[03:17:38] <cradek> I don't understand the question
[03:18:50] <Jymmm> If AC are the same thickness when parallel, how thick is 'c'? does that help?
[03:19:06] <L84Supper> does this have to do with hypotenuses?
[03:19:22] <cradek> can you draw a new picture that says what you mean?
[03:20:34] <Jymmm> cradek: Pretend line 'a' and 'c' are really a 3/4" thick MDF, Since 'c' is at an angle, the thickness changes.
[03:21:58] <cradek> oh you mean the more its slope, the thicker it gets if you measure the thickness vertically?
[03:22:12] <Jymmm> correct
[03:22:31] <cradek> hmmm
[03:24:11] <L84Supper> Jymmm: do you need a formula for this or are you looking for a measurement based on a particular angle?
[03:24:31] <Jymmm> formula
[03:24:44] <L84Supper> particular=specific
[03:25:46] <Jymmm> The only known values are length of a and b, 6" and 2" respectively
[03:26:05] <Jymmm> and the thickness of 'a' being 0.250"
[03:28:54] <L84Supper> you can solve this with Solidworks or Trig
[03:29:25] <Jymmm> great, whats the formula?
[03:29:31] <cradek> heh
[03:30:12] <L84Supper> I can't do you homework for you I can only help you think it through :)
[03:31:11] <cradek> 'use solidworks' is hardly thinking it through
[03:31:53] <L84Supper> well when C is vertical the distance is infinite and when horizontal = 0.250"
[03:31:58] <cradek> the answer to this one isn't coming to me without drawing a picture
[03:32:05] <cradek> yep that's as far as I got too
[03:32:57] <L84Supper> cradek: sure, but maybe he just wants to find out a given answer vs find the trig function
[03:33:04] <Jymmm> Ok, than is determineing the angle of 'c' solvable?
[03:33:15] <Jymmm> s/than/then/
[03:33:19] <L84Supper> sure
[03:33:38] <cradek> Jymmm: sure, if you have two lengths in a right triangle you can solve it all
[03:33:44] <Jymmm> a=6, b=2
[03:34:01] <SWPadnos> angle=asin(2/6)
[03:34:15] <L84Supper> you really just need to focus on the two parallel lines and the right triangle formed between them
[03:35:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh, the calculator doens't have asin =)
[03:35:33] <SWPadnos> inverse sin
[03:35:39] <cradek> SWPadnos: uh
[03:36:12] <L84Supper> google should do it
[03:36:21] <SWPadnos> did I do a boo-boo there?
[03:36:54] <Jymmm> asin(2 / 6) = 0.339836909
[03:37:09] <SWPadnos> radians?
[03:37:19] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=asin%282%2F6%29
[03:37:24] <cradek> angle of B (corner opposite side b) is atan(b/a) = 18.4 deg
[03:37:35] <SWPadnos> err, right, atan
[03:37:41] <SWPadnos> typo
[03:37:45] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos whistles away slowly
[03:38:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm just has a glassy eyed look
[03:39:06] <Jymmm> so, if the angle of c is 18.4, and if c is 0.25" at 90 deg, can the thicness be determined at the given angle?
[03:39:26] <SWPadnos> it sure can
[03:39:30] <cradek> yep
[03:39:45] <SWPadnos> I don't know the formula, and I'm going to bed before I figure it out, but it's definitely possible
[03:39:52] <Jymmm> LOL
[03:40:03] <Jymmm> well, that's what I'm looking for, the formula =)
[03:40:30] <Jymmm> I still have nfc how you got 18.5 degree though =)
[03:42:30] <pcw_home> Pretty sure thickness is 3/4" secant(theta)
[03:43:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Can you say that agian but in dumbass this time?
[03:43:24] <L84Supper> atan(b/a) = 0.321750554 radians = 18.4349488 degrees
[03:44:34] <cradek> sec = 1/cos
[03:45:02] <Jymmm> Ok, I'll take your word for it =)
[03:45:49] <cradek> that answer seems right at the boundaries
[03:45:54] <cradek> and it seems plausible
[03:46:02] <cradek> with trig problems, that usually means it's right :-)
[03:46:09] <Jymmm> =)
[03:46:34] <cradek> pcw_home must never sleep
[03:46:37] <Jymmm> I'm trying to draw it up now, so we'll have the answer, then figure out the formula.
[03:47:30] <pcw_home> early here...
[03:49:00] <L84Supper> Jymmm: do you need to factor in the flexing of the mdf as it changes angle from vertical or as it rotates?
[03:49:36] <L84Supper> is it supported by one end, both or at various points?
[03:53:16] <Jymmm> Ok, the thickness is .7906
[03:58:03] <Jymmm> cradek: http://filebin.ca/omq/Part1.pdf
[04:01:53] <Jymmm> It's weird, even if I cahnge b from 2 to 6, the thickness remains at .7906
[04:19:54] <KimK> cradek: Thanks for your drilling help earlier. BTW, I may have found a bug in G83 due to those small numbers I was using. It looks like G83 pecks air, and that seems unnecessary. Since there's only air in the safety zone, shouldn't the pecking start to count from zero on down? All that above-zero pecking (and retracting!) would be pretty inconvenient if for some reason you had a high safety zone (and small peck value).
[04:49:25] <Howard> pwc_home Hi Peter, Would you be able to advise me if 5i20 will run under ubuntu 10.04 satisfactorily please ?
[04:55:14] <elmo40> KimK: g83 is usually for deep holes, or material that wraps around the drill. is you have small values why dont you use g81?
[05:23:18] <KimK> elmo40: Thanks, I did eventually end up changing to G73 (chip breaker?). But I believe there's still a bug in G83, although just an annoyance, or a productivity limiter.
[05:53:26] <Jymmm> cradek: ping?
[05:54:09] <Jymmm> cradek: Maybe this might help...
[05:55:21] <Jymmm> cradek: Lay a sheet of 4x8 plywood that's 3/4" thick on a wall that's three foot tall to create a ramp. Then drill a hole in the plywood 90deg straight down. How deep is the hole on any one edge of it?
[10:48:40] <MattyMatt> I checked my gcode for endless loops, but Axis has been loading the file for 10 minutes now. What happens if I leave it chundering? and how can I cancel the file load?
[10:53:24] <SWPadnos> escape
[11:01:42] <MattyMatt> that's not helping
[11:01:52] <SWPadnos> odd. it should
[11:02:30] <MattyMatt> bleh, and the machine's too unresponsive to open a terminal or task manager to kill it
[11:05:24] <SWPadnos> well, you can wait a while to see if the ESC ever makes it to AXIS/emc
[11:06:31] <MattyMatt> yeah, or the swap partition is full, whichever comes first :)
[11:07:04] <SWPadnos> yeah, then the machine will become unresponsive ... :)
[11:07:57] <MattyMatt> here's the file it's choking on http://pastebin.ca/1956566
[11:13:47] <SWPadnos> I see places where there could be an infinite loop: line 17/20 will never be true if #7 is negative for some reason, same on line 53/59 and 84/147
[11:14:11] <SWPadnos> I can't see whether #7 can ever be negative, haven't had enough coffee yet
[11:14:39] <MattyMatt> I think I set it explicitly to +0.5 in all cases
[11:15:06] <SWPadnos> no, in the O100 routine it's set to #6/2
[11:15:26] <SWPadnos> #6 is something that's dependent on #30 and maybe #31, depending on the call
[11:15:43] <MattyMatt> ah yeah except there o100 is directly from common-subroutines.ngc
[11:15:44] <SWPadnos> #30 only I guess
[11:16:13] <SWPadnos> that doesn't mean that it protects against "hostile callers" :)
[11:19:05] <MattyMatt> bleh, it's all in one file :)
[11:19:39] <MattyMatt> #30 & #31 are set once at the start of the main code
[11:23:09] <MattyMatt> #30 and up are globals, right?
[11:23:28] <SWPadnos> they're not replaced by subroutine parameters
[11:25:23] <MattyMatt> I had grief last time I tried to use TC. I think that was just difficulty stopping it gouging tho
[11:32:58] <MattyMatt> I should get Axis and the simulator running on this machine. RT Linux is rough going sometimes :p
[11:33:24] <MattyMatt> on a single core machine
[11:33:27] <SWPadnos> if that's the case, then you probably have the base thread running too fast
[11:35:51] <MattyMatt> ah OK. I'll slow that down after the reboot I see happening
[11:36:30] <MattyMatt> I'll give it 10 minutes more, in case it just happened to coincide with my daily fsck
[11:37:18] <SWPadnos> huh
[11:37:44] <SWPadnos> dailyfsck.com isn't registered :)
[11:38:41] <MattyMatt> grab it quick. that could be more popular than slashdot or dailywtf :)
[11:38:52] <SWPadnos> yetah
[11:38:53] <SWPadnos> err
[11:38:55] <SWPadnos> yeah
[11:47:25] <MattyMatt> can I set a max number of gcode lines to consider, as a defence against endless loops doing this?
[11:47:45] <SWPadnos> nope
[11:47:55] <SWPadnos> but that's an interesting idea
[11:48:35] <SWPadnos> there's no foolproof way to detect an infinite loop, but it is possible to detect something that's "so big the user says it might be infinite"
[11:49:46] <MattyMatt> a timeout would do. "if it takes this long to load, it must be broken"
[11:50:04] <SWPadnos> nah, that's too CPU and configuration dependent
[11:52:37] <Valen> after 2 minutes of loading perhaps a popup "this is taking a really long time, continue?"
[11:55:40] <MattyMatt> I gave up and rebooted
[12:05:27] <MattyMatt> phew :) I forgot my PW for a while there
[12:09:27] <MattyMatt> Update Manager has an upgrade to 10.04LTS option. will that mean I'll need to install the new RT kernel manually?
[12:10:34] <MattyMatt> I'm not in the mood for that. I installed this one off the live CD
[12:10:55] <SWPadnos> so you installed from stock 8.04 and then installed EMC2?
[12:11:01] <SWPadnos> hmm
[12:11:10] <SWPadnos> well, I wouldn't upgrade if you don't have to
[12:11:19] <MattyMatt> nope, the EMC2 live cd
[12:12:05] <MattyMatt> yeah I'm not in a hurry to upgrade
[12:19:13] <Howard> Hi all, would someone like tell me how to use the configuration wizard use Gpio and use loadrt to program 5i20 ?
[12:21:17] <Valen> the install for 10.04 worked fine out of the box for us
[12:23:12] <MattyMatt> the 10.04 live cd? that's different from doing it from ubuntu's server I think
[12:23:36] <Valen> yeah sorry the livecd
[12:24:31] <elmo40> MattyMatt: why would it be different? it IS ubuntu.
[12:24:53] <MattyMatt> I thought the RT kernel was only on the emc2 version
[12:28:37] <elmo40> i believe there is a .deb somewhere
[12:28:40] <MattyMatt> Howard do you mean stepconf? afaik that only sees parports. I could very well be wrong there
[12:29:17] <Howard> Yep sure do.
[12:30:51] <Howard> I think I need to program the 5i20 as a Gpio and then loadrt etc to enable the card ?
[12:31:16] <MattyMatt> it would make sense yeah
[12:31:37] <MattyMatt> stepconf will just enumerate the available installed ones
[12:31:37] <Howard> I am doing a special purpose not a mill or a lathe.
[12:31:57] <MattyMatt> is stepconf what you need then?
[12:32:43] <MattyMatt> it gives you a config to edit I suppose, rather than starting from scratch
[12:33:25] <Howard> It is probably the easiest to get started and get the card running.
[12:34:35] <MattyMatt> I haven't even got 2 parports yet, so I'm only guessing stepconf goes through them all
[12:35:13] <SWPadnos> Howard, do you have an emc2-mesa firmware package installed on your computer?
[12:36:01] <SWPadnos> you'll need to use pncconf to configure a 5i20, stepconf doesn't deal with anything other than parallel ports
[12:36:27] <Howard> yes it does from the hal inspection but I can't figure out how to load the the card into the system.
[12:36:30] <SWPadnos> (and I'm not sure how good pncconf is at actually generating configs - I've seen a lot of work go into it, but I don't know of anyone using it)
[12:37:01] <SWPadnos> are you the one who had one card working but not the second one (yesterday)?
[12:38:14] <Howard> hakcmd loadrt what if the card is programmed as a Gpio 72 pins.
[12:38:33] <Howard> no I only have one card.
[12:38:43] <SWPadnos> the HAL driver will program the card
[12:38:45] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:39:03] <Howard> how do I use it.
[12:39:09] <SWPadnos> the loadrt line needs to specify which firmware to use
[12:39:33] <SWPadnos> have you read the manpage for hostmot2 or hm2_pci?
[12:40:44] <Howard> Yes but I am not sure I fully understand it at this point in time.
[12:41:51] <SWPadnos> that's clear :) (or you wouldn't be asking questions :) )
[12:42:10] <Howard> yep that's it.
[12:42:41] <SWPadnos> did you try loading emc2 with the sample config hm2-servo/5i20.ini?
[12:42:50] <SWPadnos> or hm2-stepper/5i20.ini
[12:44:23] <Howard> Can you give me a example of a command line to play with ?
[12:44:34] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[12:44:50] <Howard> OK
[12:45:05] <SWPadnos> that page has this sample: loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/5i20/SVST8_4.BIT num_encoders=3 num_pwmgens=3 num_stepgens=0,firmware=hm2/5i23/SVST8_4.BIT num_encoders=0 num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=2"
[12:45:16] <Howard> Will go study it .
[12:45:18] <SWPadnos> but it's for two carsd, so take out the second part
[12:45:28] <SWPadnos> loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/5i20/SVST8_4.BIT num_encoders=3 num_pwmgens=3 num_stepgens=0"
[12:45:54] <SWPadnos> you can set all the num_encoders, num_stepgens, and num_pwmgens to 0 if you really don't want any of those functions
[12:46:13] <Howard> this I have tried and it came back with an error
[12:46:30] <SWPadnos> you need to load both hostmot2 and hm2_pci, but I forget in which order
[12:48:01] <SWPadnos> you should put the exact error on pastebin, along with the last 50 or so lines of dmesg (which you can get with "dmesg | tail -50 > dmesg-end.txt", then upload dmesg-end.txt to pastebin)
[12:48:23] <Howard> I have programmed the card with SVST8_4.BIT and I figured that would work.
[12:49:01] <Howard> Silly question how do I use the paste bin ?
[12:49:25] <SWPadnos> go to http://pastebin.ca and copy text into the edit box
[12:49:32] <SWPadnos> then paste the link it gives you here
[12:49:45] <SWPadnos> (it'll look something like http://pastebin.ca/1965793
[12:49:49] <SWPadnos> )
[12:50:09] <SWPadnos> ok, you load hostmot2 first, then hm2_pci
[12:50:45] <Howard> Ok I was not sure of the procedure.
[12:51:40] <Howard> OK I'll go ahead with that and take it from there.
[12:52:39] <SWPadnos> you can see all of this by looking at the sample configs and the manpage
[12:52:53] <SWPadnos> man hostmot2 in a terminal will get you a lot of information
[12:54:35] <Howard> OK I will go away now and get it sorted out.
[12:55:37] <SWPadnos> heh. feel free to ask questions when you need to
[12:55:38] <cradek> KimK: I don't think you want to assume that Z0 is the surface of the work in the canned cycles. what I do think you want is a way to specify a different first peck depth, since often you can drill quite a ways before you need to start pecking on deep material.
[12:56:42] <Howard> I am in Aussie and it 11:55 pm and I am bushed at the moment . Thanks very much for you help SWPadnos :-) Cheers Mate.
[12:56:50] <SWPadnos> g'day
[12:56:58] <SWPadnos> or g'night or something
[12:58:00] <Howard> Night I am 350 Miles North of Sydney at a place Port Macquarie on the Coast.
[12:58:12] <Howard> g'night
[12:58:25] <SWPadnos> cool. gotta visit some day and do a little reef exploration :)
[12:59:09] <Howard> Yep you are must welcome My Email burhoward@gmail.com
[13:00:19] <Howard> You need to be a bit further North in Queensland but there is lots of diving around here.
[13:03:47] <Howard> Bye all catch you tomorrow :-)
[13:03:52] <SWPadnos> see you
[13:16:13] <elmo40> brave, pasting an email in an IRC room.
[14:20:13] <JT-Work> anyone done any broaching before?
[14:21:04] <SWPadnos> only some keyways, manually (and without a proper press)
[14:22:26] <JT-Work> this one has a shim, I assume you press it once without and once with the shim
[14:22:54] <JT-Work> I have a H frame press to work with...
[14:26:08] <SWPadnos> I think you can do it once with the shim, if you can get the thinner part of the broach far enough in the "groove" to stay vertical
[14:29:14] <elmo40> dont forget the lube!
[14:31:22] <JT-Work> this one the thicker part of the broach fits in the groove
[14:34:31] <JT-Work> after playing with it a bit I'm sure that it takes two passes
[14:36:18] <SteveStallings> SteveStallings is now known as steves_logging
[14:38:58] <KimK> cradek: OK, that might work, but won't it take adding another "letter" to add a different first peck depth to G83 (and maybe some others)?
[14:47:22] <psha> is there any gladevcp example available?
[15:17:52] <DJSprocket> have some questions bout EMC
[15:18:49] <DJSprocket> can EMC be used to control a tangential knife on axis A and how do i do it?
[15:20:39] <DJSprocket> hello?
[15:22:10] <atmega> Hello.
[15:22:48] <DJSprocket> is there a way to use EMC2 to controll a tangential knife
[15:23:03] <DJSprocket> easily and efficiently
[15:25:01] <atmega> is that like a drag knife?
[15:25:15] <Jymmm> yeah
[15:25:45] <atmega> no clue, but I assume it should be just like any other tool on an A axis
[15:26:02] <atmega> with the emphasis on the 'no clue' part of that statement.
[15:26:09] <Jymmm> Some have converted plotters to drag knife cutters
[15:27:15] <DJSprocket> a drag knife is too innacurate. i need to controll the knifes angle precisely
[15:27:29] <DJSprocket> i read its possible on mach 3 maybe i should just go there
[15:28:03] <atmega> how would it be different than an A mounted spindle
[15:28:55] <DJSprocket> it wouldnt really but how does the software then know what angle to put the knife at how many degrees per step and all that
[15:32:30] <KimK> DJSprocket: Could you clarify for the rest of us exactly what you mean by a tangential knife? Is it synchronized with a rotating shaft or drum? Is there a pix on the web?
[15:32:45] <Jymmm> KimK: see video... http://www.comagrav.com/oscillating_tangential_knife.html
[15:33:11] <DJSprocket> a tangential knife is a rotating knife that is used for vinyl cutting. it lines up with the angle of the cut
[15:33:44] <bloo> cardboard ball is interesting
[15:34:14] <atmega> that looks pretty cool
[15:34:31] <DJSprocket> anyways can we keep on topic more or less?
[15:35:19] <Jymmm> DJSprocket: There can be MANY conversions occurring at once on irc.
[15:35:33] <Jymmm> conversations
[15:35:34] <bootnecklad> DJSprocket I talk on here to a few people about TTL stuff
[15:35:36] <KimK> OK, as in a vinyl (graphics) cutter? The pix seems to be for cutting cardboard, so the knife, what, twists a little? More than a little?
[15:35:37] <atmega> some that span days
[15:35:38] <bootnecklad> and loads of things
[15:35:42] <bootnecklad> or weeks
[15:35:53] <bootnecklad> hate it when someone you are talking to goes afk
[15:36:16] <DJSprocket> the knife is supposed to rotate 360 degrees to orient itself with the direction of the cut
[15:36:42] <SWPadnos> there have been discussions about setting up a C axis and calculating the angle from the direction of motion in XY
[15:36:57] <KimK> Like a "swivel knife" only motor-controlled so youi don't depend on the swivel?
[15:37:05] <SWPadnos> there are potential issues though, since corners require infinite acceleration and speed on the rotary axis
[15:37:06] <DJSprocket> thats exactly it KimK
[15:37:16] <KimK> s/youi/you
[15:37:43] <DJSprocket> but instead of trying to speed it up for the corners. stop the rest of the motion until the knife has turned
[15:38:35] <SWPadnos> yeah, conceptually if's possible, but it can be hard to determine the correct angle
[15:38:49] <SWPadnos> that's something that's better done in the G-code
[15:39:04] <DJSprocket> lot at prev (X,Y) and next (X,Y) to determine angle
[15:39:19] <SWPadnos> except there is no "next X,Y" when you're stopped at a corner
[15:39:24] <DJSprocket> angle = rise over run
[15:39:50] <KimK> Yes, you could do it now by pre-reading the XY moves and generating the appropriate rotary moves to go along with XY. And then add the rotary moves to the XY gcode, wouldn't that work?
[15:39:57] <SWPadnos> I know someone made this work, but I don't remember who
[15:40:26] <bloo> http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=dragknife+site:linuxcnc.org&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[15:40:32] <DJSprocket> yeah that would theoretically work
[15:41:45] <KimK> There might be way to do it (automagically) in hal, but I'd have to think about that, I'm not sure.
[15:42:02] <KimK> s/be way/be a way/
[15:42:14] <cradek> you can do it perfectly and easily by postprocessing your gcode to add the angles (even so it remains tangent along arcs - rotary motion during arcs is supported by emc2)
[15:42:28] <DJSprocket> well in hal could yo program it to look at current position and last position and the create an angle from that and apply it to the next move?
[15:42:39] <cradek> IMO anything "automatic" is going to have troubles at corners.
[15:42:58] <cradek> DJSprocket: the problem is when you stop and then go in a different direction
[15:43:09] <DJSprocket> unless it automaticly stops the X Y motion raises Z then rotates rotary A
[15:43:34] <SWPadnos> stopped motion = no information about the upcoming direction of motion
[15:43:40] <cradek> but the perfect place to code that kind of motion is in the gcode...
[15:43:47] <KimK> Yeah, corners do seem to need a "look-ahead", don't they?
[15:43:52] <SWPadnos> which means there's no way to move A, such that you can continue motion in XY
[15:44:08] <DJSprocket> X Y coordinates of current position. and the XY coordinates of the next position
[15:44:11] <cradek> by the time XY are moving so you know the direction, it's WAY too late to stop, raise, orient, etc
[15:44:24] <SWPadnos> the next position is the same position when there's no motion
[15:44:35] <KimK> That does look like the only way to magically take on a new direction
[15:44:38] <DJSprocket> im not talking proggramming in g-code
[15:44:56] <KimK> We are, I think
[15:45:30] <KimK> Aren't we?
[15:45:30] <DJSprocket> what i want to acheive is to have this running all the time hard programmed in
[15:45:38] <cradek> I sure am
[15:46:19] <DJSprocket> so that a person doesnt have to run the g-code through a third program to just put in the A angle
[15:46:35] <cradek> the only other correct solution as I see it is to change the gcode interpreter or canon level to add the angle motion in for you. doing it at the output end (hal) is doomed to fail.
[15:47:03] <DJSprocket> i dont want to do it in the output en
[15:47:27] <KimK> Generate your vinyl graphics in XY, then post-process and run XYZA? What's the operational (not programming) problem?
[15:48:19] <DJSprocket> simplicity it should JUST WORK. not have to be run through another and another program just to get it to even kinda work
[15:48:47] <KimK> It wouldn't kinda work, it would exactly work.
[15:48:58] <cradek> yes
[15:49:17] <DJSprocket> well its still not EXACTLY what i need
[15:49:26] <KimK> Because it would have the advantage of look-ahead, being able to see the whole code before it runs anything.
[15:49:35] <DJSprocket> true
[15:49:48] <cradek> no matter what, you will have to develop this - we're telling you the way that will work 100% correctly so you don't waste your time on something that will work 40%
[15:49:48] <KimK> "Measure twice and cut once"
[15:50:32] <skunkworks> KimK: Did you end up seeing this? http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/Ygears.jpg
[15:51:09] <skunkworks> kim: also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovxW8TKBGWU
[15:52:35] <cradek> skunkworks: I simply don't understand how all your pictures can show things that are clean
[15:52:49] <cradek> how did you get the grunge off everything?
[15:53:19] <skunkworks> heh - The internals of the machine are clean.
[15:53:21] <KimK> skunkworks: Yes, I did see the right-angle drive gears and ballscrew, nice. And what is the diameter of that ballscrew again? Or the gears? And congrats on the tool change arm, glad you found that um... loose thing, what was it?
[15:53:36] <skunkworks> spring loaded cam
[15:53:37] <Jymmm> Wait, what?! That didn't make sense. If you wanted to cut out a box with tabs, you draw it up in CAD, then wouldn't the CAM create the g-code to turn A as needed?
[15:54:12] <skunkworks> the hydraulic oil gets filtered very well.
[15:55:00] <skunkworks> KimK: I don't remember exactly - the ball screw is close to 3 inches if not.
[15:55:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: cradek that questions was to you guys
[15:55:33] <KimK> Jymmm: Usually vinyl graphics aren't drawn in CAD, they're more "artistic", so drawing programs, not strong on dimensions or grid, the program handles all that, not the "artist"
[15:55:41] <cradek> Jymmm: sure the cam should write it IMO
[15:55:56] <SWPadnos> agreed
[15:55:57] <Jymmm> KimK: I use corel draw, so I understand that.
[15:55:58] <cradek> Jymmm: it can let the user decide things like what angle requires a lift of the knife, etc, and put that motion in the gcode
[15:56:08] <SWPadnos> CAM knows what you want, the controller only knows a path
[15:56:39] <Jymmm> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But you guys were talking about he'd have to develop this or that, so it confused me
[15:56:42] <DJSprocket> iunno
[15:57:06] <cradek> Jymmm: I meant he'd have to write the cam postprocessor - and he should concentrate on that layer instead of hal etc.
[15:57:16] <Jymmm> emc can do that no problem, but it should all be done in the CAM processing imo
[15:57:18] <cradek> I have no idea what cam will do this
[15:57:23] <Jymmm> cradek: ah, gotcha
[15:58:07] <cradek> sometimes people don't have control over their cam software (not free/open source), which is unfortunate
[15:58:24] <cradek> so then they're stuck with an extra program or trying to do it in emc
[15:58:55] <DJSprocket> if you guys figure out how to put together a step by step please feel free to plop it in my inbox henjin@live.com
[15:59:01] <cradek> hey, maybe you could use an AXIS input filter to parse your cam's generated gcode (yuck) and add the angle commands
[15:59:19] <Jymmm> DJSprocket: You just need the right CAM software
[16:00:00] <Jymmm> DJSprocket: Do you have that already?
[16:00:13] <DJSprocket> email please im logging now
[16:00:59] <DJSprocket> mailto:henjin@live.com
[16:01:18] <Jymmm> Not gonna happen.
[16:01:20] <cradek> DJSprocket: I hope you know how unlikely that is
[16:02:20] <DJSprocket> why the fuck are people so against helping someone WHEN I HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE and that place doesnt have internet i can access.. that place as some of you might know is called work
[16:02:38] <bloo> o_0
[16:02:45] <atmega> * atmega strains to hear the violins playing
[16:02:53] <DJSprocket> some of us have lives
[16:02:56] <cradek> DJSprocket: we have been helping you. you're asking us to do all your work for you. surely you can see that's different (and unreasonable)
[16:03:15] <cradek> insulting people (we don't work, we don't have lives) is even more unlikely to help your case.
[16:03:31] <DJSprocket> im obviously not gonna as you to come to my house and assemble the fucking thing
[16:03:31] <Jymmm> DJSprocket: And some of us don't like being treated like we owe you something.
[16:03:36] <cradek> your lack of clue in this regard is quite breathtaking
[16:04:01] <DJSprocket> ...
[16:04:10] <cradek> no, you want us to do all the work to figure it out, then write step by step instructions you can follow, then send it personally to you so nobody else in the community benefits from the development of the idea
[16:04:33] <cradek> writing those instructions and helping you follow them would be HARDER than going to your house and doing the work
[16:04:42] <Jymmm> DJSprocket: building is the easy part, designing/engineering is the hard part.
[16:04:58] <cradek> that's totally unreasonable of you to expect for free, giving no contribution to the effort yourself.
[16:04:58] <DJSprocket> well if you want to share it with others feel free i just need to go so i was simply suggesting an alternate contact method
[16:05:38] <Jymmm> DJSprocket: Well, like you said, maybe you should try MACH
[16:05:38] <DJSprocket> goodbye and goodfucking riddance
[16:05:54] <Jymmm> dick
[16:05:58] <bloo> what an A@#
[16:06:32] <Jymmm> Not so much an ass, as much as a lazy 'do it for me' mofo
[16:06:53] <skunkworks> he has mach user written all over him. ;)
[16:07:02] <Jymmm> He said that
[16:07:17] <bloo> ya windows will do that to a fella
[16:07:24] <cradek> ack
[16:07:27] <cradek> let's move on shall we?
[16:07:37] <cradek> (I should have stopped typing sooner)
[16:07:51] <Jymmm> He's already burned bridges here, so let mach deal with him.
[16:08:20] <Jymmm> cradek: Nah, you did alright =) He was pretty abusive.
[16:08:47] <cradek> I tried to explain ... but it turned out flamey
[16:08:56] <cradek> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/Buddha-Buddy-4126.jpg
[16:09:02] <cradek> puppy!
[16:09:23] <Jymmm> Oh, btw... I need an alignment tool made, email me the details
[16:10:15] <Jymmm> where has jmkasunich been?
[16:10:16] <psha> Jymmm: I may send you gladevcp in axis patch privatly but it won't help you :(
[16:10:28] <psha> You will be first seeing it!
[16:10:40] <psha> no alignment tool though :(
[16:10:44] <Jymmm> psha: I have no idea what that is, but ok, sure!
[16:10:49] <cradek> Jymmm: probably playing with the puppy - wouldn't you be?
[16:11:04] <Jymmm> cradek: for the last 6+ months?
[16:11:12] <cradek> Jymmm: no idea :-)
[16:11:19] <cradek> I miss his being around too
[16:11:23] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: WHERE YOU BE?!?!?!
[16:11:32] <skunkworks> cradek: I am not the only one that checks his site for new pictures?
[16:11:34] <cradek> oh he's logged in!?
[16:11:40] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I'll send you a cheesebuger
[16:11:53] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: (for the puppy)
[16:12:01] <Jymmm> cradek: yeah
[16:12:15] <Jymmm> but he's always logged in
[16:13:03] <Jymmm> jepler is kinda being the same as jmkasunich, haven't seen him much in #emc
[16:14:09] <cradek> and look what he misses...
[16:14:22] <cradek> Jymmm: what kind of alignment tool are you working on? sounds interesting
[16:14:25] <Jymmm> eh, good for a laugh at least.
[16:15:02] <Jymmm> cradek: you want the dramatic version or the functional version of the story?
[16:15:37] <cradek> punchline only, please
[16:16:28] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wonders if he still knows how to operate the CHNC :?
[16:17:47] <Jymmm> dumbass tech support - never believe everything they tell you. It's just a 1/4" dowel with a 45deg beveled flat apx 3" tall, and a 1" diam base apx 3/4" in height
[16:18:03] <Jymmm> maybe 3/8" dowel
[16:18:46] <Jymmm> An aluminum version of this... http://www.engraversnetwork.com/store/iimages/focus_tool_250.gif
[16:19:47] <Jymmm> cradek: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[16:20:19] <cradek> that looks pretty easy to make, unless I'm missing something
[16:20:28] <cradek> stop on by and I'll help you make it :-)
[16:20:37] <Jymmm> no, you're not. Other than the fact that I don't have a mill =)
[16:20:40] <cradek> oh is the top part not full round?
[16:20:55] <Jymmm> No, more like a 'D' shape
[16:21:14] <Jymmm> and the notch is at a 45deg bevel
[16:21:30] <cradek> so it's a little long D stuck in a bigger shorter D?
[16:21:45] <Jymmm> Yeah.
[16:21:46] <cradek> I don't think I can see the notch you're talking about
[16:26:47] <Jymmm> cradek: side view...
[16:27:33] <Jymmm> +-----------+
[16:27:35] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:37] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:39] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:41] <Jymmm> /-------------------------------+ |
[16:27:43] <Jymmm> /--------------/ |
[16:27:45] <Jymmm> +------/ |
[16:27:47] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:49] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:51] <Jymmm> +-------------------------------------------------------+ |
[16:27:53] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:55] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:57] <Jymmm> | |
[16:27:59] <Jymmm> +-----------+
[16:28:19] <cradek> gotcha - two steps with 45 degrees
[16:28:25] <Jymmm> bingo
[16:28:49] <cradek> if you had all the measurements you could mill it pretty easily...
[16:29:04] <Jymmm> if I only had a mill =)
[16:29:19] <cradek> bleh
[16:29:43] <cradek> how do people get along without mills? how can you make *anything*?
[16:29:51] <JT-Hardinge> file and hammer
[16:30:04] <JT-Hardinge> and angle grinder
[16:30:14] <cradek> it's definitely true that you could make this with a file and some care. Jymmm do you have a lathe?
[16:30:27] <Jymmm> What's even simpler than that is that the top of the bevel to the base bottom is 2.00"
[16:30:49] <cradek> you could make the full round version all in one piece on any lathe, then file the flats and bevels
[16:31:43] <Jymmm> I have that tool, the problem is that the the set srew on the back of the base has created a dimple in the rod, so I can no longer calibrate it correctly.
[16:32:01] <Jymmm> It should have NEVER been made out of plastic.
[16:32:15] <JT-Hardinge> got a photo Jymmm ?
[16:32:24] <Jymmm> An aluminum version of this... http://www.engraversnetwork.com/store/iimages/focus_tool_250.gif
[16:33:01] <JT-Hardinge> just round stock with some flats on it?
[16:33:24] <Jymmm> yeah, but the bevels are at 45 deg
[16:33:39] <JT-Hardinge> at the end of the flats?
[16:34:05] <cradek> if you have a base you could reuse, you could just make the center pin - go to hardware store and get 1/4" brass rod, cut off, file to fit
[16:34:34] <cradek> put the rod in a vise and concentrate on keeping the file level - maybe even set a level on top of the file
[16:34:59] <cradek> then reorient it so it's at 45 degrees in the vise and do the bevels
[16:35:10] <cradek> (might be easier if you cut it off last)
[16:35:29] <cradek> also might be smart to get a nylon tipped set screw to replace the original
[16:36:32] <JT-Hardinge> if you clamp it down to a flat surface you can place spacers under your file to keep it flat and stop at the desired level
[16:37:25] <cradek> it might take a couple tries, but you will probably be able to make this part in an afternoon
[16:37:38] <tom3p> scrub the file with blackboard chalk to prevent the alum from filling it up
[16:39:47] <cradek> tom3p: don't you think using brass is better?
[16:41:51] <tom3p> yah, brass better, i thought he said he wanted alum
[16:42:03] <cradek> I think he wants not-plastic :-)
[16:42:54] <tom3p> ok, use the original as a 'lost wax' model & cast it :)
[16:43:17] <cradek> hehe think it'd melt out ok?
[16:43:27] <tom3p> stinky :(
[16:43:32] <cradek> open windows!
[16:43:41] <Jymmm> It's not that complicate, the bevel is 2" from the base
[16:43:54] <KimK> Yikes, I had to help in the shop for a bit, just got back. Still, it's a good idea, the XY to XYZA thing though. Maybe I'll work on it sometime.
[16:44:48] <Connor> question.. on my CNC.. I have X as the front-to back movement, and the Y as left to right.. is this typical?
[16:44:55] <cradek> nope
[16:45:09] <cradek> usually X is left to right, and usually X is the longest travel
[16:45:39] <Jymmm> cradek: Because the "focus tool" really just sets the focus 2" from the table, it's not perfect anyway,just sorta a reference. and not a very good one at that but most that buy these just make signs and trophys and don't know any better.
[16:45:47] <Connor> hmm.. why does it look right in the GUI then...
[16:46:14] <psha> cradek: and if left-right is shorter then front-back?
[16:46:34] <cradek> psha: good question. I'd still put X increasing to the right, Y increasing to the back
[16:46:43] <Jymmm> cradek: All the math from yesterday is to place a piece of anodized aluminum at an angle and laser a line on it. What the sharpest point is is the focal point.
[16:46:44] <psha> thanks
[16:46:45] <cradek> Y increasing up of course
[16:46:47] <tom3p> x is usually the longer axis, where the user stands determines front to back
[16:46:53] <Connor> yea.. I was going to say, on CNC routers... front to back is normally way longer..
[16:46:58] <MattyMatt> mine is built like a pinball table. Y is longer
[16:47:13] <Jymmm> cradek: Then use the focal point as the offset for calibrating the laser.
[16:47:30] <cradek> Jymmm: interesting
[16:47:37] <Connor> MattyMatt: Me and you talked about this last night.. in the reprap thread.. I was checking in the CNC world to see if they looked at it a different way... :)
[16:47:39] <MattyMatt> it was supposed to be square, but my ballscrew X is limited
[16:48:12] <Jymmm> cradek: Just basic physics
[16:48:15] <MattyMatt> X is always left-right in any discipline. Descartes decided that one
[16:48:39] <cradek> er I meant "Z increasing up of course" above
[16:49:19] <cradek> as long as you end up with a RH coordinate system you're doing ok :-)
[16:49:32] <Jymmm> cradek: When I told you about the wall and plywood, that was to compensate for the thickness of the material
[16:49:42] <tom3p> b4 i forget... i saw a handheld pen that recorded motion... nothing new there... but it used special paper with a grid of dots. i thought... hey the encoder is on the material!
[16:50:25] <cradek> tom3p: sounds like a new take on cad tablet technology
[16:50:43] <MattyMatt> not new. those things are ancient
[16:50:43] <bloo> wacom tablet and stylus come to mind, i even use my m200 toshiba for tracings
[16:51:16] <tom3p> but the encoder is on PAPER just dots,
[16:51:24] <cradek> I've never heard of one that optically reads paper dots - always magnetic/inductive somehow
[16:51:42] <MattyMatt> mmm $pecial paper. good scam if you can pull it off :)
[16:51:49] <Jymmm> barcoded?
[16:51:56] <tom3p> how about same on a plate of steel?
[16:52:25] <MattyMatt> any noisy pattern would do with an optical mouse
[16:53:26] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjFhnuv9wis
[16:57:10] <Jymmm> cradek: Take a flashlight and aim it straight down on a flat surface (cardboard?) that is at a 45deg angle. As you move the flashlight left-to-right, the beam size gets wider/narrower. Same principal
[16:58:12] <Jymmm> except that I can't see the IR laser beam, so I let the laser burn a hariline, and where the hairline has the sharpest detail is the focal point offset.
[16:58:39] <Jymmm> bbl
[16:58:44] <bloo> What is your focused beam width?
[17:01:22] <tom3p> how can I mount lucid's ext4 fs in earlier hardy 8.04? ( how to share files between older & newer emc2? )
[17:04:19] <skunkworks> in the same computer? or different? different - could you just share it?
[17:04:34] <bloo> ext4 =2.6.28 or later kernel
[17:04:38] <bloo>
[17:05:06] <tom3p> skunkworks, yes, same machine, different partitions
[17:05:32] <tom3p> bloo, thanks
[17:05:42] <bloo> you could symlink your gcode folder in ext4 back to the ext3 hardy partition
[17:10:25] <tom3p> it seems i need a new kernel to read ext4
[17:11:01] <bloo> do ya know how to symlink ?
[17:11:41] <JT-Hardinge> anything else normally put in the preamble of a g-code file besides this G18 G20 G80 G90?
[17:12:41] <tom3p> yes i can make symlinks (both kinds ), but i CANNOT READ EXT4 i think you may have missed that
[17:13:41] <tom3p> coolant off spindle off...
[17:14:05] <bloo> no just meant use the symlinked folder to store relevent data on the ext3 partition then it can be accessed from either buntu version
[17:15:30] <tom3p> bloo thanks, but hardy cannot read or mount ext4 as delivered
[17:18:24] <bloo> yeah i get that part, lets say 804 is on /dev/hda1 and 10.04 on /dev/hda2 ... use a symlink in your home folder in 10.04 to point back to home or data folder on /dev/sda1/ and store data there when working in 10.04. Then when you boot in 804 its already on that ext2/3 partition there no mounting ext4 necessary
[17:19:44] <JT-Hardinge> canned cycles don't work on a lathe?
[17:20:41] <JT-Hardinge> error: G18 canned cycle is not possible on a machine without Y axis
[17:20:55] <JT-Hardinge> but it is G83 not G18...
[17:23:04] <psha> tom3p: why not to use one separate home partition?
[17:23:11] <psha> for both 10.04 and 8.04?
[17:23:18] <tom3p> bloo, ah , create a symlink on the 10.04 ... well i'm debugging why 10.0 wont boot ( i access it thru the live cd still while grub2 tells me "grub rescue>' :)
[17:23:46] <bloo> oh that new grub..... not fluent in it yet
[17:23:54] <bloo> check reinstalling grub
[17:24:25] <tom3p> this is 2nd install
[17:24:47] <tom3p> i'll ask over in ubuntoid land thanks
[17:24:53] <bloo> /etc/boot/grub/meny.cfg file iirc
[17:24:57] <bloo> menu
[17:25:03] <psha> bloo not
[17:25:04] <tom3p> grub.cfg
[17:25:07] <psha> menu.lst for grub1
[17:25:10] <psha> grub.cfg for grub2
[17:25:19] <psha> tom3p: how grub is complaining?
[17:25:26] <psha> and what's in your .cfg file?
[17:25:48] <bloo> grub.cfg yep sry ... been off the buntu a while now
[17:25:53] <tom3p> is this apropo for emc2?
[17:26:10] <psha> as you wish :)
[17:26:12] <tom3p> i'll ask there, tho i appreciate the interest for my dead install
[17:26:46] <psha> i'm not skilled in emc but maybe able to help you with this problem :)
[17:57:57] <cradek> JT-Hardinge: I'd also add G40
[17:58:13] <cradek> JT-Hardinge: and sure, canned cycles along Y (perpendicular to XZ) don't work without a Y axis
[17:59:31] <JT-Hardinge> ok, darn
[17:59:59] <cradek> what are you trying to do?
[18:00:07] <JT-Hardinge> G83
[18:00:12] <JT-Hardinge> on the lathe
[18:00:14] <cradek> to drill along Z?
[18:00:18] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[18:00:21] <cradek> that's G17 dude
[18:00:31] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge looks in the manual
[18:00:35] <cradek> :-)
[18:00:56] <cradek> G17 canned cycles make Z go "up and down"
[18:01:20] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge hears the sound of a forhead getting smacked
[18:01:30] <cradek> heh
[18:01:45] <archivist_attic> * archivist_attic places a cushion on the brick wall
[18:01:54] <cradek> I think that's not obvious to anybody, haha
[18:02:02] <JT-Hardinge> to protect the wall?
[18:02:08] <archivist_attic> yes :)
[18:10:43] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge finds this in the manual All canned cycles are performed with respect to the currently-selected plane.
[18:13:15] <JT-Hardinge> and If other planes are active, the error conditions are analogous to the XY conditions above.
[18:17:57] <JT-Hardinge> does anyone use subroutines on a lathe like I posted on the forum for stock operations?
[18:21:43] <cradek> I'd like to but I've never taken the time to set it up
[18:22:42] <JT-Hardinge> with Deweys gui it makes it real simple for me to do stock ops, I just have an icon for each type
[18:23:01] <cradek> my dirty secret is sometimes I'll rough or bore with G91 G85 with L repeat
[18:24:23] <JT-Hardinge> hate to say it but your secret is out now :)
[18:26:16] <atmega> is there a magic 'increment z and run again' code?
[18:27:12] <atmega> or static variables across runs?
[18:28:00] <cradek> atmega: what do you mean increment z?
[18:28:42] <atmega> add $n to z and execute the current program again
[18:29:05] <cradek> you can change an offset and run again...?
[18:29:10] <atmega> to all z's, or touch off, or whatever method you would like ot cut deeper
[18:29:52] <atmega> I can touch off and run again, but I'd like to just be able to change a number
[18:30:13] <atmega> though I guess that is just changing a number, but i never think of it that way
[18:37:05] <archivist_attic> I have run a prog measured and then touched off the size difference on the required axis and rerun, it works for me for gear cutting
[18:37:37] <archivist_attic> I do code with the method in mind
[18:38:00] <atmega> I suppose I could measure better... I always seem to be off doing that.
[18:38:52] <cradek> put the axis at the commanded/desired value - touch off to the measured value - run again
[18:38:57] <cradek> I do that all the time
[18:39:21] <cradek> when I told you to do THIS - you cut THIS instead - try again!
[18:39:21] <archivist_attic> I also have variables in the beginning of the gcode I can edit to rerun
[18:39:53] <JT-Hardinge> atmega: I use subroutines that I can change something and run again...
[18:39:56] <atmega> I think axis editable variables would be cool
[18:40:19] <atmega> but, I'm pretty new to actually cutting stuff so I might get over that
[18:42:03] <atmega> I've been cutting plexi on top of MDF... when I cut a little too deep into the mdf, the melted plexi and mdf make the edges ugly
[18:43:40] <archivist_attic> you should be cutting not melting
[18:44:11] <archivist_attic> tool speed, geometry and cooling
[18:44:14] <atmega> yeah, I assume bumping up the feed rate would help
[18:44:15] <cradek> feed much much faster
[18:44:45] <cradek> single flute plastic cutters work nice
[18:44:55] <atmega> I haven't found a good way to secure the plexi to the MDF and faster feeds make it worse
[18:45:10] <cradek> you want to make big thick chips and get away from where you just cut as fast as possible
[18:45:20] <atmega> got a source for single flute cutters?
[18:45:21] <cradek> oh, yuck, holding is tough
[18:45:29] <cradek> sure let me see if I can find the one I've used
[18:46:45] <cradek> not finding it...
[18:47:05] <cradek> http://www.harveytool.com/products/product_detail.php?product_id=51400
[18:47:09] <cradek> aha, looks like this
[18:47:33] <cradek> funky
[18:47:40] <atmega> that's a weird looking device
[18:47:54] <cradek> high relief does not rub
[18:48:34] <cradek> for 1/4 cutter, chip load .010!
[18:48:57] <cradek> you have to be bold :-)
[18:48:59] <atmega> what does that mean?
[18:49:08] <cradek> for every turn of the spindle move the work .010 inches
[18:49:15] <atmega> oh, wow
[18:49:40] <cradek> if you have 10krpm, feed 100 inches/min
[18:50:14] <atmega> would slowing down spindle speed help if you were moving slower?
[18:50:21] <cradek> yes
[18:50:32] <cradek> 2krpm on a knee mill: feed 20 inches/min
[18:50:45] <cradek> won't throw the chips as well, but it will still stay cool
[18:50:59] <atmega> I'm using a 2-flute mostly straight one at the moment
[18:51:13] <cradek> oh like a wood router bit?
[18:51:23] <atmega> I don't know what it is really
[18:51:56] <cradek> straight flute isn't going to work at all in plastic
[18:52:08] <cradek> you need to get the chips out fast or they'll weld back in place and melt
[18:52:16] <atmega> heh, that they do.
[18:53:13] <atmega> they do come out nicely, in a solid chunk
[18:54:49] <cradek> heh all glued back together?
[18:58:58] <cradek> following right behind the tool with a vacuum hose might get the chips out and make your current tool work
[19:59:46] <Jymmm> atmega: Just used onsrud cutters, they are specifically made for plastics... http://www.plasticrouting.com/
[20:00:29] <Jymmm> They work damn good, and are sharp. Just ask JT-Hardinge
[20:12:56] <MarkusBec_> MarkusBec_ is now known as MarkusBec
[20:26:40] <Jymmm> How sloppy are 123 blocks when bolting together?
[20:31:52] <ds2> sloppy in what sense?
[20:31:57] <bloo> /j #cam
[20:32:07] <bloo> oops sry
[20:32:23] <Jymmm> like tapered holes to keep the two blocks aligned
[20:32:52] <ds2> I'd think you use a smaller bolt and rely on the ground surfaces to self align
[20:38:58] <cradek> the sides are flat/square, the holes are imprecise
[20:51:48] <DaViruz> the quill on my VMC is stuck :/
[20:51:56] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm: I'm almost healed up now from touching the Onsrud cutter
[20:51:58] <DaViruz> i had to apply several tonnes of external force to get it to move
[20:52:32] <DaViruz> and even then it is too stuck for the servo to move it
[20:54:59] <cradek> that doesn't sound right
[20:55:10] <cradek> have your oil lines been plugged for a few years?
[20:55:52] <DaViruz> the machine has been.. unused for a year or two
[20:56:01] <cradek> yuck
[20:56:36] <DaViruz> the central lube pump never builds any pressure
[20:56:40] <DaViruz> so there is a leak somewhere
[20:57:21] <DaViruz> ut i forced the quill the entire 150mm travel, with no signs of it easing up
[20:57:43] <DaViruz> maybe that was stupid but i was running out of ideas
[20:58:52] <cradek> http://www.lowes.com/pd_235858-1409-L104_4294859135_4294937087_?productId=3026976&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Hardware%2BLubricants_4294859135_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1
[20:59:20] <cradek> oops, bad link maybe
[20:59:23] <DaViruz> i guess i could try hooking a hand pump directly to the quill oil line to bypass any leakis
[20:59:30] <cradek> I've fixed more stuff than I care to admit with this stuff
[20:59:51] <cradek> if it had dinosaur oil in it, it's all plugged solid after a few years I bet
[20:59:55] <DaViruz> i've soaked it in penetrating oil a couple of times
[21:00:01] <DaViruz> but the quill seals really look.. sealed
[21:00:12] <DaViruz> oh :/
[21:00:24] <DaViruz> the system was filled with mobil vactra 2 way oil
[21:00:28] <DaViruz> seems to be mineral based
[21:01:02] <cradek> those metering nozzles like to plug up - you have to take each of them out and see if they flow
[21:01:11] <cradek> very sucky job
[21:02:20] <DaViruz> everything works fine except the wuill, which doesnt seem to have a metering nozzle
[21:02:27] <DaViruz> just a connection to the bore
[21:02:32] <DaViruz> and a spiral groove in the quill
[21:02:42] <cradek> are you sure the nozzle isn't earlier in the line?
[21:02:56] <DaViruz> that's possible i guess
[21:03:02] <cradek> did you pump penetrating oil into that spiral groove? sounds very possible
[21:03:17] <cradek> I think there almost surely is a nozzle somewhere in the line...
[21:03:19] <DaViruz> i didn't
[21:03:23] <DaViruz> it's really shallow
[21:03:29] <DaViruz> just a slightly more dull finish
[21:03:33] <DaViruz> basically
[21:03:49] <cradek> it'll free up if you can get liquid wrench in there - might take a while
[21:04:07] <bloo> try flushing with thinner penetating oil and a space heater to help it along
[21:04:09] <cradek> I fixed a stuck diesel injection pump with the stuff - talk about tight clearances
[21:04:28] <bloo> worked on my vertical mill when it stuck
[21:04:44] <DaViruz> a slightly warmer enviroment might be a ood idea, it's only 10 centigrades in there
[21:06:10] <bloo> will help dissolve old sticky oil
[21:07:07] <DaViruz> i doubt i can get a hold of liquid wrench specifically, but i suppose the stuff i have should be comparable
[22:18:09] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[22:50:40] <yoyoek> alive?
[22:51:28] <yoyoek> I have a plan. is it good idea? http://d3p.pl/fb/?&tag=mGcodeGenerator&id=1420&subPage=detale
[22:52:05] <bloo> bloo is now known as skinnypup
[23:29:17] <Jymmm> Hey, aren't you suppose to be able to bolt 123 blocks together?
[23:32:48] <skunkworks> Jymmm: never done it.
[23:32:53] <Jymmm> k