#emc | Logs for 2010-09-13

[00:03:37] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:13:14] <bortreb> Is there a limit to how much gcode emc can process? I'm using emc to control a laser
[00:14:15] <bortreb> and am doing rastering. At low dpi this works fine, but at high dpi the laser stops about a fifth of the way through (although it cuts beautifly up to that point)
[00:15:55] <cradek> what version of emc? there was a bug a while back that limited it to a certain number of lines, but as far as we know that is fixed.
[00:30:16] <bortreb> I'm using the ubuntu 8.04 live cd emc
[00:30:40] <cradek> that doesn't tell me what emc version you have. try help/about
[00:31:09] <bortreb> looks like it
[00:31:13] <bortreb> it 2.3.0
[00:31:46] <cradek> ouch - install your updates.
[00:32:14] <bortreb> I'm glad it might be something like that
[00:32:46] <bortreb> but, I don't know how to go about installing updates for the livecd version of emc
[00:32:59] <bortreb> do you mean that there is a newer livecd version?
[00:33:05] <cradek> isn't it telling you updates are available?
[00:33:23] <cradek> generally all you have to do is click ok to get all the updates
[00:33:49] <bortreb> hurrrr 233 updates available
[00:34:02] <cradek> now you know how :-)
[00:34:07] <bortreb> well thanks
[00:34:15] <bortreb> I'm not very good at emc iteslf
[00:34:34] <cradek> that will give you the latest 2.3 version. You may want to update to 2.4 which is the latest stable series of releases.
[00:34:41] <bortreb> but I managed to write some clojure code that enables you to raster any image file easily
[00:35:10] <bortreb> do you think anyone would be interested/ how might I submit it to the emc people?
[00:35:14] <cradek> instructions for upgrading from 2.3 to 2.4 can be found here (it is very easy): http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/
[00:35:41] <bortreb> and speaking of that, is there a live cd for 10.04 yet?
[00:35:55] <cradek> sounds interesting - would you consider doing a write-up and publishing it on the linuxcnc wiki? lots of folks share stuff there.
[00:36:01] <cradek> yes
[00:36:14] <cradek> you can also read about that on the wiki front page
[00:36:23] <bortreb> yeah, I'd love to put it on the linuxcnc wiki
[00:36:34] <cradek> excellent
[00:36:38] <bortreb> anything special I need to do to get it there?
[00:37:18] <cradek> not too special: read this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[00:37:31] <bortreb> (sorry fr all the noob questions; I'm in the akward position of knowing a lot of lisp and basically nothing about anything else)
[00:37:32] <bortreb> thanks
[00:38:09] <cradek> welcome, no problem
[00:38:33] <cradek> your questions are not stupid, and they mostly have answers in the form of URLs :-)
[00:39:12] <bortreb> well, time for some updates :)
[00:39:58] <cradek> I do recommend updating to 2.4 - but you'll want to install all the updates anyway, and you can do the 2.3->2.4 switch as a second step.
[00:40:23] <cradek> be sure to read the instructions for that though - in particular if you have an existing machine config, you'll have to make very minor changes to it
[00:41:32] <bortreb> on 8.04 or should I just switch to 10.04
[00:42:06] <cradek> you can do either one. we will make packages for 8.04 through the 2.4 stable release series
[00:42:22] <cradek> reinstalling will take more time and effort
[00:42:32] <cradek> updating 8.04 to run emc2.4 is foolproof and trivial
[00:43:07] <cradek> depends whether you want to futz with an OS update now or later - you'll want to do it eventually.
[00:44:58] <bortreb> ok, I'll try the os route, any canon place for the necessary config transformations?
[00:45:05] <bortreb> to go from 2.3 to 2.4?
[00:45:45] <cradek> you'll find it as you read the front updating instructions found on the front page of the wiki
[00:45:53] <cradek> err subtract one of those fronts
[00:46:02] <qq-> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Rastering_With_A_Laser
[00:46:38] <bortreb> thanks qq- I looked at that but his ruby script didn't work so I had to rewrite it
[00:46:49] <bortreb> it was a good starting point though
[00:46:58] <qq-> cool
[01:08:47] <qq-> we need a rtai kernel to compile emc ?
[01:53:23] <mikegg> yes
[01:58:03] <qq-> seen later there is --enable-simulator option , maybe that will help
[03:23:10] <AR_> AR_ is now known as AR
[03:23:19] <AR> AR is now known as AR_
[04:06:38] <L84Supper> qq- : you do to use it to control hardware in real time, but you can compile everything without RTAI just to play with it without the real time capability.
[04:07:57] <L84Supper> EMC2 with RTAI works with x86-64 now as well
[04:25:00] <L84Supper> wohoo never expected to find a deal on collets at a pawn shop
[04:27:55] <NTU> Hey guys! Last night I had a one-time only success with EMC working in arch linux, but now I can't get it to start one more time.. http://pastebin.com/yLqVnv9j It keeps saying /usr/bin/emc: line 654: 17756 Segmentation fault $EMCTASK -ini "$INIFILE"
[04:32:11] <NTU> Also I'm not sure if this would help but I get error messages in dmesg regarding libposemath.so (seg fault)
[04:32:24] <NTU> http://pastebin.com/pa9fGQS2
[05:30:48] <elmo40> L84Supper: you would be very supprised what you find at pawn shops. i picked up a 1-4" mic set for $50! Older but still accurate.
[10:49:24] <Jymmm> Welcome to Hell, other words known as Monday! Have a nice day =)
[12:32:19] <qq-> L84Supper, yeah, is that i needs, seen how goes compiler , and say usability in such context (no-rtai)
[12:51:23] <mk0> oh, the front page is changed and translated
[13:54:38] <mk0> how does work new interface for touchscreens and are there many touchscreen working under linux? did anyone try?
[13:57:45] <cradek> the touchy gui works great - many touchscreens have drivers but it sometimes takes a little work to get them going.
[13:58:38] <skunkworks> cradek: how do you have your computer grounded to the machine ground?
[13:58:45] <skunkworks> * Good morning :)
[14:00:24] <cradek> well, the power supply is grounded, and the case is grounded
[14:00:45] <mk0> cradek, mmm maybe you can tell the specific monitir which definetely works okay? to have a startpoint for searching. i'm from belarus and the world-wide market is not accessible for me.
[14:02:15] <cradek> the screen I have is several years old; I don't personally know what is currently manufactured that works, but maybe you can find something with google?
[14:03:17] <skunkworks> cradek: thanks :)
[14:03:32] <alex_joni> The main idea behind 'Inception': If you put a VM inside a VM that is inside a VM, things will run very slow
[14:03:41] <skunkworks> heh
[14:03:56] <alex_joni> And then you try to emulate a Mac inside another VM and you fall into Limbo forever.
[14:04:32] <mk0> cradek, thanks! i will try to try what we have here)
[14:07:12] <qq-> bunaziua, what's meant that 'hostmot2' from hostmot2-firmware-xxxx , i meant it is a hardware or .. ?
[14:08:11] <cradek> hostmot2 is what mesa calls the firmware that allows host-based motion control. host-based means the control is in the PC. this is the scheme EMC uses.
[14:08:49] <qq-> cradek, cool, thanks
[14:09:24] <cradek> if you're not using mesa products, you don't need the hostmot2 packages
[14:10:14] <qq-> have an example of 'mesa products' ?
[14:11:29] <cradek> http://mesanet.com/
[14:11:48] <qq-> cradek, nice, thanks again
[14:12:01] <cradek> many people use their interface hardware to run servo (and stepper) machinery with EMC
[14:12:44] <qq-> i see , excellent
[15:05:21] <alex_joni> qq-: where from?
[15:08:33] <moopy> logger_emc: bookmark
[15:08:33] <moopy> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-09-13.txt
[18:30:52] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:33:25] <qq-> alex_joni, nice to meet you ;)
[18:36:37] <alex_joni> likewise
[18:36:58] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqXJj_DqBG0 replace ink with hardener then just add Z axis and powder for cheap 3D printer :)
[19:33:34] <the_wench> andypugh: KimK said andypugh: (sent via "later") Interesting you should be asking about that star point, I was just asked for advice on a friend's trailer mounted generator and I was surprised to find that they bring out the other star point. In addition to the usual T1-T9 wires, this adds T10-T12, so you have the ends of all six coils. Very nice. Not sure how this answers your Q, if your motor is one-voltage-delta, you might
[19:33:34] <the_wench> andypugh: KimK said andypugh: (continued via "later) that matter. (bah, flooding again, sorry.)
[19:34:28] <andypugh> I had not seen this before. I thought Skunkworks had the biggest EMC toy, now I am not sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI&feature=related
[19:37:37] <skunkworks> heh - stuart does...
[19:37:55] <skunkworks> oh - that is stuart :)
[19:38:42] <andypugh> I saw a thread on cnc-zone asking if EMC2 was eady for the "big time" Perhaps that proves it? (Though I guess you could run that with Mach if you wanted?)
[19:42:13] <AR_> you could run a machine like that with an msdos program made by a 9th grader
[19:43:12] <andypugh> I guess it depends on where the servo loops are running. I doubt that is a stepper machine.
[19:43:16] <skunkworks> andypugh: link?
[19:47:41] <andypugh> It was this old thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=790006&postcount=15
[19:47:46] <skunkworks> ah
[19:48:16] <skunkworks> I remember that one. :0
[19:48:42] <andypugh> Yes, quite. I had forgotten that it was that thread I saw the debate in.
[19:54:12] <Jymmm> JT-Work: JT-Hardinge Not a bad price for steel casters... http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-1500-lb-capacity-vehicle-dollies-67338.html?utm_source=creative3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3710A
[19:57:10] <elmo42> interesting line he wrote
[19:57:12] <elmo42> "Interestingly, Mach3 seems to be able to run about THREE TIMES FASTER! This is based on EMC2's latency test when compared to Mach3's equivalent. This could be due to the fact that there aren't any drivers for the mobo for Linux."
[19:57:27] <elmo42> how does mach3 do latency tests with a non real time kernel?
[19:57:53] <elmo42> what does it compare cycle counts with?
[19:58:04] <andypugh> I guess he means that MAch claimed to be able to handle a faster step rate.
[20:02:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: There's one MUCH bigger than that machine that jmkasunich SWPadnos and a couple others worked on.
[20:03:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: You can lay down on the short length of the table and you wouldn't touch the edges of it
[20:04:13] <elmo42> Jymmm: I work on a machine that is very large. almost 30 feet long but just 7 feet wide.
[20:04:22] <elmo42> it is for aircraft stringers.
[20:04:27] <andypugh> Yes, but I am only 3' tall...
[20:04:42] <elmo42> 40,000RPM spindle eats up Al so fast!
[20:04:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, in that case, we can just shove you in a mounting hole
[20:05:33] <Jymmm> It's the EMC wack-a-andypugh game
[20:05:55] <andypugh> What impressed me with the one in the video was just how big the parts that swing around are.
[20:07:06] <Jymmm> heh
[20:07:40] <andypugh> And the accuracy, it's amazing to watch it all swivel and have the ball centre not move by more than a tou
[20:07:43] <andypugh> (thou)
[20:08:22] <Jymmm> =)
[20:15:56] <skunkworks> supposidly - mach will do 100khz. I don't know if the gui actully responds at that rate.
[20:17:09] <elmo42> I used to use it. when I hit Single Step it went through 3 lines before it stopped moving.
[20:20:15] <skunkworks> andypugh: I have seen it in person... It is a huge machine.
[20:20:53] <skunkworks> he is also still using the old scr drives in it - run with pico hardware
[20:21:13] <andypugh> What is it used for? I assume it is a commercial rather than hobby machine?
[20:21:45] <skunkworks> he is a company that make aircraft parts
[20:22:30] <skunkworks> so - he take a large block of aluminum/titanium and turns it into a light ribbed part. ;)
[20:23:03] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Whats that machine where the step block is like 6ft tall?
[20:23:39] <L84Supper> do they run Mach3 with real time windows hacks like http://www.tenasys.com/
[20:23:42] <elmo42> that is what we do. make aircraft components. http://noranco.com
[20:28:13] <andypugh> They all look very expensive
[20:28:16] <skunkworks> L84Supper: no - the developer wrote his own step generator within windows that acts like a reltime componant.
[20:28:38] <Jymmm> Must be a VXD
[20:28:42] <skunkworks> the way I understand it.
[20:28:50] <andypugh> Is there a way to prevent a kinematics setup going in to "joint' mode?
[20:28:54] <Jymmm> There is no "real time" in M$, just elevated.
[20:29:20] <elmo42> even the embedded version?
[20:30:00] <elmo42> our Mazak's have windows on them. they boot in seconds. very fast at everything. only 300MHz cpu's! it must be real time.
[20:30:25] <Jymmm> elmo42: No, more like SSD
[20:30:35] <Jymmm> and a custom build
[20:30:57] <elmo42> regular hard drives
[20:31:19] <Jymmm> Then they did a custom build removing the extras
[20:32:37] <Jymmm> They could have just wrote a VXD as well.
[20:32:56] <andypugh> http://themazatroladvantage.com/mazak-solutions/mts-2.html
[20:32:57] <L84Supper> maybe windoze XP embedded, it comes with a toolkit where you pretty much just checkbox what you do and don't want
[20:32:58] <NTU> I stripped windows 7 down to its bone, still took like 10 seconds on my Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.2 ghz.. deleted everything i didn't need out of the registry. nothing really worked well though.
[20:33:11] <andypugh> Not what I was looking for, but !
[20:34:16] <Jymmm> NTU: That is NOT a custom build that I'm speaking of.
[20:34:45] <andypugh> It looks like the MAzaks run WIndows 95. Wasn't that DOS deep down?
[20:35:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: sorta kinda
[20:35:16] <andypugh> Might make it easier
[20:35:30] <andypugh> You can get to the hardware layer
[20:35:36] <Jymmm> Yeah, I believe that CE is really stripped 98
[20:36:05] <Jymmm> and they use CE on embedded devices
[20:37:32] <elmo42> we have a wide range of age in our mazaks.
[20:37:49] <elmo42> some use win95, win98, win2000 and the two newest (2005) use winxp
[20:38:31] <Jymmm> Fsck 95, 98 good.
[20:38:52] <Jymmm> both are 16bit, xp gives you 32 bit.
[20:39:07] <NTU> 2000 was 32-bit i think too
[20:39:28] <Jymmm> It was, but it uses VXD
[20:39:54] <Jymmm> so might as well go for XP in that case.
[20:41:00] <NTU> whats wrong with VXD? all-memory access?
[20:42:15] <Jymmm> The V stands for VIRTUAL
[20:42:49] <Jymmm> but at the lowest level
[20:43:24] <NTU> well it does allow RAW HW access i think but i dont have much experience with 98 >= so I can't be sure
[20:44:34] <Jymmm> No, but very close. NT3 and up all use VXD, there is no direct hardware access, VXD is the closest you can get though.
[20:45:15] <Jymmm> Unless to have the source code.
[20:46:42] <Jymmm> For example, BIOS bootable SCSI cards still use VXD. That's why when you have a controller like that during install it'll ask if you have drivers and to insert the floppies (rolls eyes).
[20:47:57] <Connor> What do most people use for the home location? End of axis or middle or what?
[20:48:02] <qq-> VXD stand for 'virtual what' ?
[20:48:34] <Jymmm> VXD == Virtual Device Driver
[20:48:47] <NTU> Windows 7 does use WDM for GPU access though. There was an update for Vista which allowed it too.
[20:49:05] <qq-> Jymmm, cool, thanks
[20:49:29] <Jymmm> qq-: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxD
[20:49:36] <elmo42> Connor usually a corner.
[20:49:39] <qq-> * qq- reading
[20:49:46] <NTU> because when you install Catalyst, it always says WDDM 1.1 display driver. ;)
[20:49:49] <elmo42> Jymmm: still need that collet? ;)
[20:49:50] <Jymmm> qq-: that article is old too
[20:50:19] <Jymmm> elmo42: not sure
[20:50:33] <qq-> Jymmm, 98' too ;)
[20:50:37] <Jymmm> elmo42: can it hold a #31 drill bit?
[20:53:26] <elmo42> I can make one for ya ;)
[20:53:47] <elmo42> we use that for a 4-40 STI tap
[20:55:08] <Jymmm> elmo42: Is this a dynamic collet, that can take different sized bits?
[20:55:37] <Jymmm> I have seen those, but looked scarry. (1/8 sleeve in a a 1/4 collet)
[20:55:57] <Jymmm> if it was a 3/8 or 1/2 seemed better, but no such luck.
[20:59:08] <elmo42> no. it can fit 1/16 up or down, though.
[20:59:21] <elmo42> they will all be 1/2 O.D.
[20:59:56] <Jymmm> .0625 wow
[21:00:08] <Jymmm> up to what?
[21:33:36] <elmo42> umm... 15/32?
[21:37:40] <Jymmm> really?
[21:38:45] <Jymmm> how in the hell do you go from 0.0625 to 0.46875 ?!?!?!
[21:39:14] <Jymmm> without the drill bit flying at your face that is
[21:40:13] <elmo42> no, many different sizes. sorry for the confusion. I will make many of them. possibly 15.
[21:43:20] <Jymmm> elmo42: OH, I have seen these brass tube with slots cut in them that fit into a 1/4" collet, but accept 1/8" shank. I thought it was something like that.
[21:44:40] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/img/bR-0ws4U.png
[21:44:45] <Jymmm> You know, if you can make somethgn that cna fit into a 1/2" (router) collet and accept .0625 to .249 (or so) might be a very good thing.
[21:45:05] <Jymmm> skunkworks: new crayons?
[21:45:19] <skunkworks> heh
[21:46:06] <Jymmm> I hit the tool store the other day and they didn't have anything like that.
[21:46:35] <Jymmm> They had a $140 1/4" to 1/8" adapter with a set screw, but that was about it.
[21:46:53] <Jymmm> they had a $20 less precision one too.
[21:47:31] <Jymmm> maybe like the Tapmatic collets, but not rubber
[21:52:59] <Jymmm> elmo42: something like this mybe http://www.stylefeeder.com/i/66ccmbsh/Bosch-Ct125-1-8-Quot-Replacement-Collet?sw=1
[21:53:59] <Jymmm> elmo42: where the OD is 1/2", but the ID varies down to .0625"
[21:54:16] <skunkworks> the write speed is dismal
[21:56:01] <Jymmm> elmo42: bigger pic http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51264MS0V3L.jpg
[21:57:59] <Jymmm> elmo42: Here is one wiht a thicker wall http://www.deerso.com/18_COLLET396230-details.aspx?src=gbs
[21:58:44] <Jymmm> WTF?! Cost $5, shipping $8 *sigh* Just stick the SOB in a padded envelope
[22:10:13] <andypugh> Is this cheaper?
[22:10:14] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/Roto-Zip-1-8in-Replacement-Collet/dp/B00004YVA4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1284415754&sr=8-2
[22:11:20] <Jymmm> That's the thin walled one, the other one is a thick walled. I was just commenting on it, but showing elmo42 what I was talking about.
[22:11:46] <andypugh> It's a stock photo of a different part. The spec is the same
[23:38:00] <JT-Hardinge> looks like my internet connection is finally working properly
[23:39:53] <Jymmm> wooh
[23:39:55] <Jymmm> oo
[23:40:50] <JT-Hardinge> I've been on here all day long with no resets :)
[23:43:56] <Jymmm> dialup?
[23:43:56] <NTU> cradek: ping