#emc | Logs for 2010-09-08

[00:04:19] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:40:51] <Valen> no, sounds cool though
[00:54:58] <kgartner> is support for the 3x20 mesa cards the same as all the others? or are there different levels of support 'maturity'?
[01:02:25] <pcw_home> The driver and firmware are all the same for all PCI/PCIE cards
[01:03:16] <pcw_home> (firmware source is the same, bit files are different of course)
[01:03:45] <kgartner> cool, so then one should be able to upgrade between cards without much fuss
[01:05:12] <skunkworks> IIRC - seb and matt tried one of the pcie cards on smithys lathe. Seemed to be pretty transparent.
[01:06:13] <skunkworks> (I don't know what smithy uses normally - 5i20 or the parallel port one
[01:07:32] <skunkworks> pcw_home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU_O_Z7Vv8c
[01:07:38] <roh> bill20r3 check out https://m21.hyte.de/wiki/RepStrap
[01:08:11] <roh> bill20r3 the config files which printed successful for us are linked there.
[01:09:15] <roh> you can use stepgen to make your steper 'behave' like the dc drive via different hal directives
[01:33:16] <pcw_home> skunkworks: Thats neat! is that a shaft with a keyway or splined shaft that drives the shorter axis?
[01:36:28] <skunkworks> pcw_home: it is a ball spline
[01:37:12] <skunkworks> 3 races around the diameter of the shaft. (so far we see only .0002" backlash in the whole system
[01:37:14] <skunkworks> )
[01:48:54] <Jymmm> .0002" ?! take it back and gt a refund!
[01:48:56] <Jymmm> get
[01:50:24] <cradek> did you get Y going?
[01:50:49] <Jymmm> you see his video?
[01:51:03] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU_O_Z7Vv8c
[01:55:29] <pcw_home> Nice that the Servo motors dont need to move
[01:57:28] <cradek> yes but I don't think he has Y moving in that one yet
[02:09:48] <skunkworks> no Y yet
[02:13:52] <Valen> skunkworks: more preload!
[02:15:02] <pcw_home> I though the spindle axis was Z (shows how much I know)
[02:15:48] <cradek> spindle moving floor-to-ceiling is Y
[02:16:17] <cradek> Z is the tool direction (table moving toward and away from spindle)
[02:16:30] <cradek> silly sideways mill
[02:17:26] <pcw_home> I'll have to look at a picture of the whole mill again...
[02:27:44] <skunkworks> it's not that silly ;)
[08:29:58] <IchGuckLive> morning from Raini and cold Germany
[08:31:20] <micges_work> good morning from cold Poland
[08:31:44] <IchGuckLive> B)
[08:31:58] <IchGuckLive> but still sunny there
[08:40:37] <alex_joni> it's warm and sunny here
[08:40:40] <alex_joni> expecting 29C today
[09:36:30] <micges_work> here is only sunny :)
[09:37:06] <micges_work> max 17C
[11:21:26] <jthornton> semi-final resting place http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Bridgeport%20308%20VMC/BP308-20.jpg
[11:22:31] <archivist> was the bike supposed to be used to push it in :)
[12:35:56] <alex_joni> jthornton: cool, congrats
[12:39:48] <Jymmm> jthornton: If that doens't work for you, I'm happy to store the bike at my place if you need the added room
[13:10:08] <skunkworks> pcw_home: you can see the ball spline here. (the one closest to you) 2 of the 3 races are visable. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/ballscrew.JPG
[13:11:14] <skunkworks> the normal lookin spline is for the B axis. It doesn't have to be as accurite because the table positions in 5 deg increments.
[13:27:53] <elmo40> skunkworks: that ballscrew could tear my house apart!
[13:29:31] <Jymmm> It's a toothpick
[13:30:32] <elmo40> tent == house >_<
[13:31:22] <Jymmm> heh
[13:39:02] <skunkworks> * skunkworks has really really small hands... ;)
[13:39:28] <Jymmm> skunkworks: tell me about it! ;)
[13:39:33] <Jymmm> http://v7.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=316ww40
[13:48:02] <cradek> the little ones look like mutant no-necked deer
[13:49:28] <Jymmm> heh. cute lil buggers aint they =)
[14:17:44] <elmo40> * elmo40 notices the tumble weeds... everyone must be little busy bees at the moment.
[14:18:10] <Jymmm> elmo40: Quit making so much damn noise, I'm trying to sleep here!
[14:19:49] <elmo40> * elmo40 thinks Jymmm needs a few more HOURS of beauty rest. I-)
[14:20:07] <Jymmm> I'll sleep when I'm dead
[14:20:41] <elmo40> Leonardo Di Vinci
[14:21:04] <elmo40> he was quoted in saying that. I whole heartedly agree with him. (and you ) ;)
[14:21:38] <Jymmm> Too bad I can't live up to it though =)
[14:21:51] <elmo40> I think I have a bad stick of RAM. the computer for the mill keeps locking up on me. rather annoying.
[14:22:09] <Jymmm> Toss in a LiveCd and run memtest for 24 hours.
[14:22:30] <elmo40> don't need it that long. they usually pop up in the first 3min.
[14:23:24] <elmo40> good excuse to upgrade everything :) hardware and software. I want to give 10.04 a shot.
[14:27:33] <elmo40> I have so many spare parts lying around that I can not justify purchasing something new. It was the thought that counts LOL
[14:33:48] <elmo40> P3-1GHz is too slow :( maybe the P4-2.8GHz mobo works.
[14:46:18] <morficmobile> elmo40: too slow for what?
[15:00:04] <elmo40> for gnome in 10.04 + axis + other things.
[15:00:17] <elmo40> besides, I only have 256Mb of that RAM.
[15:02:15] <Jymmm> ouch
[15:02:26] <Jymmm> I'd say 512MB minimum
[15:03:33] <Connor> I built a little machine for under $300.00.. Dual Core Atom with 4gigs, 3 parallel ports in mini-itx form factor.. Oh. 32 GB SSD in it, boots up in around 12 seconds (BIOS post and everything)
[15:05:56] <elmo40> 3 par ports? are they through the pci slot?
[15:06:20] <Connor> One on board parallel board (using a header), then I got a dual port PCI card
[15:07:14] <elmo40> what does the pci one communicate with? is there a difference in latency?
[15:08:05] <Connor> Umm. I would imagine it's the same as onboard, infact, I would think the onboard uses PCI too, just not able to remove it..
[15:15:02] <elmo40> speaking of onboard. just noticed my P4 mobo doesn't have the rear connection. only pins on the board :/
[15:15:33] <Connor> yea, You'll have to find a header cable.
[15:15:47] <Connor> I bought the PCI printer port card jut to get one.
[15:18:33] <elmo40> well, I get to the CPU listing at boot, then a mem-check(which says it is all good) but after that it hangs for 15seconds and shuts off. I know there are thermal protectors for the cpu to kill the system but my heat sink is securely attached with the thermal goop.
[15:19:19] <elmo40> I have 2 Socket 478 mobos to try out. one with ddr2 and one with ddr1. hopefully one of them work!
[15:20:20] <elmo40> 2 P4 cpu's as well. 2.8 and 3.0GHz
[15:42:21] <elmo40> ok. none of them worked >_<
[15:43:42] <elmo40> but, I have an Asus A7VBX LA with an AMD Sempron 2.2GHz and 1Gb DDR RAM. :)
[15:43:46] <elmo40> so far it seems stable
[15:43:59] <elmo40> time to check the RAM for problems.
[15:46:04] <elmo40> should I swap in the nVidia GeForce MX440 w/128Mb RAM, or keep the onboard video?
[15:48:18] <Jymmm> onboard video seems to cause high latency fwiw.
[15:53:03] <elmo40> Jymmm: you have a laser?
[15:53:32] <elmo40> and you were thinking about Laser Cladding?
[15:55:38] <elmo40> how much are these machines? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PchrxGRZuto
[15:56:36] <elmo40> but this is what I would like. robotic arm with the laser head on it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0EtLWjVEV4
[15:56:53] <Jymmm> elmo40: Yes. This is what I have... http://www.engraversnetwork.com/uls/m300.html
[15:57:30] <elmo40> really niec video. very descriptive. but a million dollars to get it up and running? robot, laser, powdered metal, power supplies... I bet it is close to a million
[15:58:07] <elmo40> I guess it is technically called Deposition? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzNv6Ds2KPY
[16:02:04] <L84Supper> materials deposition is the general category, it's a pretty broad term
[16:02:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm preforms materials deposition every morning
[16:02:47] <L84Supper> exactly
[16:10:27] <L84Supper> the brute force method to laser cladding
[16:10:37] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fApotOGOMHY&feature=related
[16:14:39] <L84Supper> looks like even the brute forced method is patented
[16:32:10] <elmo40> lmao! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oga_4uoCvnA
[16:35:03] <elmo40> now fast forward to 0:50 to see full depth of cut! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLC25KbCTxs I love it. No one at my place has the balls to even try it.
[16:55:22] <LawrenceG> tom3p, Good morning .. I heard rumors that you had written a stripchart widget
[16:56:25] <Jymmm> DAMN! LawrenceG pounced tom3p for the kill in less than 5 minutes! LOL
[16:57:01] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, lurking in the weeds for days finally pays off!
[16:57:24] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Why have you been lurking btw?
[16:58:01] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, rats.... doing a nackup and I forgot to clear trash.... those iso's are a pain in the ...
[16:58:21] <Jymmm> heh
[16:58:49] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: PITA == Pain In The Ass
[16:59:30] <LawrenceG> how is the laser project coming along?
[17:00:07] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Good. Working in the air scrubber design; think I finally got it down, working out the details now.
[17:00:14] <Jymmm> s/in/on/
[17:13:54] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[17:32:39] <tom3p> LawrenceG, ? stripchart? i wrote an svg panel with a bendable velocity curve ( like an s-curve velocity envelope ) for pyvcp_widgets.py
[17:32:48] <tom3p> (damn inet is broken everyt few minutes here, sorry )
[17:33:37] <tom3p> but i wrote a lot of custom pyvcp widgets ;)
[17:34:19] <tom3p> hah last few lines are in the archive so they must have made it thru
[17:37:10] <elmo40> the AMD system works :) doing a memtest right now. 1Gb RAM with 2.2GHz CPU.
[17:40:11] <elmo40> damn >_< one of the 512 sticks is bad. have to sub it with a 256. So sad :(
[17:43:41] <LawrenceG> tom3p, cool... I was looking for a wx wdget... part way through writing one, but someone said you had done one. The wx widgets are not much different from the pyvcp widgets
[18:07:27] <tom3p> florian wonders if AB is strong enuf? use this for a 'cheap' conversion? ! http://www.dmgecoline.com/de-DE/30-dmu-50-eco
[18:08:26] <Jymmm> tom3p: Are you talking the girl in laytex?
[18:08:40] <cradek> what the hell is she there for?
[18:08:55] <cradek> way to make your website look professional
[18:09:07] <Jymmm> cradek: I think shes the instant chat "chic"
[18:09:29] <cradek> fail
[18:09:49] <Jymmm> cradek: Kinda like this... http://i37.tinypic.com/nvqukn.jpg
[18:13:03] <tom3p> Jymm she keeps poking her finger in her mouth, i find it distracting
[18:13:42] <elmo40> DMG make Amazing machines!
[18:13:57] <Jymmm> tom3p: lol
[18:13:58] <elmo40> I wish I had one of them.
[18:14:45] <archivist> and a machine?
[18:16:01] <elmo40> one of what other then the machine? <confused>I am</confused>
[18:16:44] <elmo40> is 12 m/min rapid traverse fast?
[18:16:50] <elmo40> I don't know metric :P
[18:17:04] <tom3p> look at the naked/no sheet metal machine http://www.dmgecoline.com/de-DE/32-highlights
[18:17:26] <cradek> elmo40: at the shell, run units
[18:17:32] <cradek> You have: 12 m/min
[18:17:35] <cradek> You want: inches/min
[18:18:16] <tom3p> schwenkrundtich, aka AB
[18:20:33] <elmo40> approx 4700 inches/min
[18:20:35] <elmo40> nice :)
[18:20:45] <elmo40> google is supposed to be able to do that
[18:21:07] <elmo40> wait
[18:21:09] <cradek> elmo40: well you got the wrong answer...
[18:21:15] <elmo40> one too many decimal places :P
[18:21:24] <elmo40> 12 meters = 472.440945 inches
[18:21:49] <tom3p> the 55 model has pallet changer (and more vogue-ing latex girl )
[18:21:50] <Jymmm> 8 IPS
[18:21:53] <tom3p> http://www.dmgecoline.com/de-DE/42-dmc-55-h-eco
[18:22:28] <Jymmm> tom3p: See, she wants your body!
[18:23:15] <tom3p> ah, you cant turn it off but you can zoom in till she doesnt 'appear' anymore
[18:24:02] <Jymmm> tom3p: http://adblockplus.org/en/
[18:24:33] <tom3p> i always found on screen 'nerf steel' simulations useless, by the time i could see the detail, i couldnt see where the detail was
[18:25:47] <tom3p> that has to win the most annoying award
[18:25:55] <tom3p> (the girl)
[18:26:05] <Jymmm> tom3p: Just install ABP
[18:26:29] <elmo40> I don't see anything
[18:26:34] <elmo40> use flashblock
[18:26:37] <elmo40> or adblock
[18:26:48] <Jymmm> tom3p: Then mouse over the girl and you'll see a "BLOCK" link that you click on and your done.
[18:27:16] <elmo40> I like the smaller 32 then the 42. no need for a pallet changer in my shop, not mass producing a millions parts/year.
[18:28:42] <tom3p> ahh! ADB installed and dmg girl is vermisht
[18:29:01] <tom3p> thx Jymm
[18:29:42] <Jymmm> tom3p: Yeah, it's the only FF plugin I use
[18:30:04] <elmo40> now then... if I upgrade linuxcnc from 8.04 to 10.04, can I just use cradek's packages to keep everything working ?
[18:30:35] <Jymmm> tom3p: You can pretty much block anything you like. I block most of the tracking websites and all of google analytics JS crap - just slows things down imo
[18:31:00] <elmo40> same here
[18:31:04] <tom3p> Jymm, cool, got a list?
[18:31:56] <tom3p> wow that eco50 was 100k$
[18:31:59] <Jymmm> tom3p: Not really, just when I hit a site with annoying crap, I hit ABP, and it pops up a list of things you cna block. I just wildcard them.
[18:33:04] <tom3p> ok, on demand, thx
[18:34:07] <Jymmm> tom3p: Example goto http://cnn.com/ then click on the ABP stop sign and a list of things will popup. notice all the ones that say http://ads.*
[18:35:57] <Jymmm> tom3p: BUT, is something doesn't work, disable ABP and reload the page, maybe you blocked too much, it happens maybe once a a year or so, or they change things and you have to unblock certain thigns
[18:37:41] <Jymmm> tom3p: Did you restart FF ?
[18:38:08] <tom3p> yep
[18:38:11] <Jymmm> tom3p: in here please, no need to pm
[18:38:17] <tom3p> ok
[18:38:43] <Jymmm> tom3p: Well, check the plugin, you should have the stopsign all the time in the top-right corner
[18:38:53] <Jymmm> might be an option
[18:38:53] <tom3p> oh THAT stop sign on the menu bar ( doh!)
[18:39:07] <Jymmm> tom3p: how many stop signs do you see silly =)
[18:39:29] <Jymmm> tom3p: There's CLICK and RIGHT-CLICK too
[18:39:55] <tom3p> yeh, just not noticed in the corner of the screen
[18:40:03] <Jymmm> =)
[18:46:20] <tom3p> ah, Ulf has good point, the Heid CNC uses digital amps ( not pwm, not analog Velocity commands )
[19:06:06] <elmo40> has anyone replaced the default Gnome with anything lighter?
[19:12:42] <tom3p> LawrenceG, maybe of use http://jstripchart.sourceforge.net/
[19:14:53] <tom3p> or ( because Biggles was cool ) http://biggles.sourceforge.net/
[19:41:59] <cradek> jepler: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/heeks-import-of-truetype-tracer-biarc-dxf-output.png
[19:42:25] <jepler> ooh fancy
[19:43:03] <cradek> sure looks better when arcs don't turn into straight lines...
[19:46:42] <jepler> can you put the gcode somewhere too?
[19:55:05] <ichudov> Can I say "g0 z-1 x1 y2 g4 p0" instead of two lines: "g0 z-1 x1 y2" and "g4 p0"? Just to save space and to be more idiomatic?
[19:56:04] <jepler> ichudov: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_overview.html#sec:Order-of-Execution
[19:56:31] <jepler> I think that's accepted, but possibly contrary to your expectation, a dwell takes place before a motion (regardless of the order of the words on the line)
[20:21:46] <elmo40> who is managing the experimental SMP kernel? http://linuxcnc.org/experimental/smp/
[20:22:22] <elmo40> anything newer?
[20:29:21] <cpresser> elmo40: you are free to use my custom build: http://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/emc2.5pre_lenny/
[20:29:32] <cpresser> I use it on a SMP machine
[20:31:03] <cradek> the lucid rt kernel is smp
[20:31:09] <cradek> the one on the linuxcnc cd
[20:49:33] <ichudov> jepler: thanks
[20:54:03] <elmo40> the new one? nice. just dl'd it. will try an install tmrw
[20:59:50] <Endeavour> Hello
[20:59:57] <alex_joni> hi
[21:00:13] <Endeavour> Anyone here have experience with the Geckodrive products?
[21:04:15] <awallin> Endeavour: the stepper drives are good.
[21:04:20] <alex_joni> Endeavour: yeah, some
[21:04:27] <Endeavour> Which would you recommend?
[21:05:50] <alex_joni> depends what you need
[21:05:53] <alex_joni> stepper/servo
[21:05:55] <alex_joni> buget, etc
[21:06:16] <Endeavour> I'm using NEMA 17 stepper motors
[21:06:39] <Endeavour> I was looking at the G251, but, they have a lot of different drives.
[21:06:52] <Endeavour> Not sure what the differences are.
[21:07:04] <Endeavour> (Reading the specs, but real world experiences would be nice)
[21:14:15] <alex_joni> I have a lot of G340 for DC motors
[21:14:19] <alex_joni> and some G201 iirc
[21:17:16] <alex_joni> they work great
[21:34:03] <shrdlu-> oh, sweet, there's a wiki on your site about rastering with a laser!
[21:34:19] <shrdlu-> I was pretty much in tears trying to implement that last year ;)
[21:34:35] <shrdlu-> ended up paying to replace the old driver board
[23:01:47] <andypugh> I have just had a query via my Youtube pages asking for advice on DC servo drives that are Mach3 compatible. Am I right in thinking that Mach only works with step/dir drives? (Naturally I will point him at the LiveCD for EMC2)
[23:02:33] <alex_joni> andypugh: there are some other alternatives (galil card) for mach, but I wouldn't go there
[23:02:40] <alex_joni> it's not really closed loop, but a hack
[23:03:44] <andypugh> So my assertion that EMC2 is a better bet for servo use is correct?
[23:04:25] <andypugh> (I am prepared to believe that for some people Mach is more suitable than EMC2. (Morons, idiots, the deranged, for example :-)
[23:09:47] <alex_joni> andypugh: not necessarely
[23:10:01] <alex_joni> yes, emc2 (and even emc1) is a better fit for servos
[23:10:29] <alex_joni> there are lots of people (not morons, etc) who still think Mach is more suitable for them
[23:11:03] <alex_joni> people who don't want to try out ubuntu/emc2..
[23:11:04] <cradek> you know what they say about arguing on the internet?
[23:11:17] <alex_joni> what?
[23:11:25] <cradek> for arguing on youtube comments it seems even more true
[23:11:27] <andypugh> Those were only examples :-). In honesty I can see that anyone uncomfortable with anything except Windows would be better served by Mach
[23:11:49] <cradek> yes possibly - depends on what they're trying to do
[23:11:55] <alex_joni> andypugh: to each his own
[23:12:04] <andypugh> It was a PM query, rather than a comment
[23:30:11] <Valen> everybody just knows that linux is hard
[23:30:31] <Valen> and it wont work with their windows software
[23:30:48] <Valen> (the fact gcode is a text file is something they havent found out yet)
[23:31:57] <andypugh> I think most make the choice before realising that they are going to want a dedicated PC for the CNC machine.
[23:31:59] <alex_joni> just wait for Step-nc to kick in
[23:32:43] <andypugh> Step-NC looks practically impossible to hand-code. And has been 10 year+ in the making...
[23:36:47] <moopy> alex_joni: i am thinking about adding in the linear motion in genserkins??
[23:37:18] <andypugh> Sounds useful. And hard :-)
[23:37:19] <moopy> do i just change the GO_QUANTITY_LENGTH == link->quantity
[23:37:42] <alex_joni> andypugh: not really hard, it's all there already
[23:37:56] <moopy> i.e. change link->quantity to GO_QUANTITY_LENGTH
[23:37:59] <alex_joni> moopy: you just need a way to specify it at load time and from HAL
[23:38:05] <andypugh> Oh. I had a look at the source and gave up baffled by matrices.
[23:38:18] <alex_joni> but now I'm off to bed.. 2:38am here
[23:38:20] <moopy> the matrix stuff is very hard
[23:38:36] <moopy> but as said i think its all there already
[23:38:50] <alex_joni> moopy: yes, it is
[23:38:52] <moopy> so i should be able to do it in 10 mins
[23:39:31] <moopy> so i just change link->quantity to GO_QUANTITY_LENGTH if the joint is linear
[23:39:38] <andypugh> I suspect if it was a 10 min job it wouldn't have been left undone?
[23:39:58] <moopy> well if its not a 10mins job its beyond me
[23:40:23] <andypugh> No harm in investing the 10 mins to find out, though.
[23:40:33] <moopy> working out all that matrix algebra would take me at least a month
[23:41:05] <moopy> it could take me forever
[23:41:07] <alex_joni> andypugh: well.. I had no use for it when I put the rest there, so I did leave it out
[23:41:16] <andypugh> I suspect you don't need to work it out, just undrstand when to apply a rotation matrix, and when a translation one.
[23:41:18] <alex_joni> it might be a 10 minute job
[23:41:30] <alex_joni> andypugh: for this you don't
[23:41:39] <alex_joni> you just mark each joint as rot/linear
[23:41:47] <alex_joni> the rest for the calculations is already there
[23:42:03] <moopy> well all i am going to do is add the stuff to read jointtype from the hal config
[23:42:08] <andypugh> In that case, what are you waiting for Moopy? Get to work, stop slacking ;-)
[23:42:58] <moopy> yeah, i may do it tonight
[23:43:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[23:43:27] <andypugh> Goodnight Alex
[23:43:46] <andypugh> Actually, that sounds like an excellent plan.
[23:47:44] <mikegg> evening fellas
[23:54:39] <Dave911> Endeavour: I have used the G203Vs and some of the older 7A stepper drives. The 251's are derived from the older designs. All of the stepper drives are good IMO.. I have never used the Gecko servo drives..
[23:54:48] <Endeavour> Hello
[23:54:54] <Dave911> Hi
[23:54:56] <Endeavour> I picked up 3 G251s today.
[23:55:01] <Endeavour> :)
[23:55:16] <Dave911> I think you will be happy with them ....
[23:56:09] <Dave911> Their are cheaper drives ... but to me the Geckos are pretty much at the low price end of anything quality...
[23:56:35] <Dave911> There ...
[23:57:28] <Endeavour> :) Cool.
[23:57:48] <Endeavour> I'm trying to make a no-compromises machine here. Not for milling or turning.
[23:58:08] <Endeavour> But everyone here really hated the stuff from Allegro Micro and I got pointed to Gecko many times.
[23:59:44] <Dave911> As long as you don't exceed the current/voltage ratings of the Gecko drives .. I don't think you can go wrong with them... I have used some of them in some hellish applications where I expected them to fail after a year or so .... not the case .. they are hard to kill..