#emc | Logs for 2010-09-07

[00:04:15] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:59:28] <Dave911_> Jymmm: >>> you literally dragged it? Part of the ways.. I used pipe rollers where I could but in a few instances .. it was dragged with a come along... the hard way to do it..
[01:13:07] <Dave911_> jthornton:..... You made that look easy! Nice to have all of that blocking handy.. You've obviously done that before! :-) Still.. that is a lot of work going back and forth moving all of that stuff around
[01:45:10] <Jymmm> Dave911_: yuck
[02:22:13] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/2-axis-cnc-lathe-/300463043839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f4fe34ff still holds to 0.001", not a bad deal
[02:51:02] <roh> hmm. i've drawn out the schematic of our lasercutter high voltage board
[02:51:05] <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/tmp/high-voltage_driver-board.pdf
[02:51:15] <roh> anybody seen something like that before?
[02:56:26] <L84Supper> it's a boost type switcher
[02:58:35] <cradek> jthornton: yay, looks like it's at ground level, congrats
[02:58:47] <cradek> jthornton: looks like a very easy fit through the door
[02:59:02] <L84Supper> roh: are you trying to fix it?
[03:00:04] <KimK> roh: And what did you draw it in?
[03:00:15] <roh> L84Supper nope... well.. the laser does strange things sometimes. next will be checking out the cables, which pins of CH3 the a) ampmeter, b) current-pot. and c) 'test fire button' and d) the link from the controller-board is connected
[03:00:23] <roh> KimK thats eagle
[03:01:12] <KimK> OK, thanks. Free or paid? How recent or what version?
[03:01:30] <roh> also its after like 10 revisions ;) after untangling. its a single-layer board done in china. i first placed all parts on the sheet like on the pcb, and the connected them, after that i started shuffling everything around
[03:01:42] <roh> the free one. some 5.x version on linux
[03:01:58] <roh> 5.6 is what i used
[03:02:44] <roh> C16 is funny. according to the datasheet of the IR2110 its dangling in the air (pin8 is not connected)
[03:04:06] <L84Supper> roh: might be from an earlier rev of the part
[03:04:22] <roh> i did that reversing for 2 things: i want to understand what i need to send in there, so i could retrofit it with emc later, and i want to know if something weird on it is causing the strange 'flame-out' effects we get
[03:05:32] <roh> the laser just 'looses power' in midst cutting, but the 'ampmeter' still shows something. happens if one uses 'too much' power in the beginning after some 60 seconds runtime. cooling water isnt hot, and a fan on the mosfets did nothing.
[03:06:29] <KimK> roh: OK, thanks. I have considered Eagle from time to time. I've also recently loaded a bunch of gEDA stuff (available in Synaptic on ubuntu 10.04), but haven't had a chance to play with it much yet.
[03:06:31] <roh> i guess that varistor (R20) is the overvoltage-'protection' and the relay with the triac-diodes-pot combo trys to be a overcurrent protection.
[03:07:02] <roh> geda is nice, but it crashed once to often and annoyed me there
[03:08:19] <roh> what does one controll on laser-drivers? frequency? pulse-length? or both?
[03:08:44] <KimK> roh: I suppose the CH1 1-3 is the incoming Line, Earth (not shown?), Neutral. But what is the CH2 1-3 over by the drivers?
[03:09:25] <roh> CH2 is where 2 wires to some hv-cascade or similar is connected.
[03:09:41] <roh> it looks like 2 line-transformers from a tv
[03:09:59] <L84Supper> roh: what's the final HV Voltage?
[03:10:06] <roh> eh.. i dunno the english word. 'zeilentraffo'. the thing generating the high voltage.
[03:10:26] <roh> L84Supper if i knew ;) its a chinese make, about 80cm long co2 tube.
[03:10:33] <KimK> And it is a two-wire inductance of some kind?
[03:11:11] <roh> i guess so. its 2 'transformer like thingies' on a board, and a really fat resistor in series to the laser-tube
[03:12:05] <roh> guessing from the isolation i'd say about 6-10kv?
[03:12:06] <KimK> thingies as in ferrite core? As opposed to iron core, I mean?
[03:12:14] <L84Supper> roh: what's the switching frequency?
[03:12:41] <roh> L84Supper havent measured yet. i wanted to know what would happen to my scope before fiddeling in chinese high-voltage stuff
[03:13:03] <roh> got no tools for measuring 4digit voltages
[03:13:20] <L84Supper> roh: without a HV probe your scopes voltage protection would be cooked
[03:13:28] <Jymmm> roh: You have a tounge, that's shoul dbe good enough
[03:13:48] <L84Supper> heh.... get a cheap HV probe for CRT's
[03:14:24] <roh> guessing from the caps they use its 'below 2000V' on this board ;)
[03:14:45] <Jymmm> really?
[03:14:45] <L84Supper> they probably charge pump after this circuit
[03:14:52] <KimK> Just make a coil (1-2) turns of wire and put it from your probe to probe's ground clip and bring it within maybe 6" of the coil. Not too close. Don't connect to any part of the circuit.
[03:16:14] <KimK> Especially not "ground"(?), lol!
[03:16:15] <roh> first i will untangle the cables and find out where the 47k pot on the frontpanel, the amp-meter and the firebutton are connected. the controllerboard is on pins 1 and 2 of CH3 afaik
[03:17:24] <roh> it would be really nice if i could replace the sucky pot on the front with a endless-dial and control the current with an avr for now. its nearly impossible to manually 'reproduce' the same ampage 2 times. exactly
[03:18:10] <Jymmm> 10 turn pot?
[03:18:39] <roh> it also drifts
[03:18:44] <roh> while running
[03:19:11] <Jymmm> Well, it might not be "drift" as much as load change
[03:19:35] <KimK> roh: How many watts is your laser? And what gas type? (Sorry if you said this earlier, I missed it)
[03:19:57] <roh> hm.. not that i'd noticed... atleast it doesnt make a difference what material i cut
[03:20:20] <roh> KimK its a supposedly 50W co2
[03:20:20] <KimK> Oh, CO2, there it is. Looking for the wattage now...
[03:20:30] <KimK> OK, thanks
[03:21:06] <Jymmm> roh: pics?
[03:21:09] <roh> i think its more like 30W and since it makes trouble if i do runs with more than '0.5A' (whatever the scale means) we use it on low settings a lot.
[03:21:38] <roh> https://m21.hyte.de/wiki/LaserCutter
[03:21:57] <roh> http://camgeeks.de/maschinen/ on the bottom
[03:22:44] <KimK> So I'm guessing "0.5A" means 50% of some unspecified current?
[03:23:18] <roh> the scale goes up to 3A
[03:23:47] <roh> the volt-meter is connected directly behind the fuse, before even the powerswitch. so you see if the machine is plugged %-)
[03:23:55] <Jymmm> roh: Find the currnet shunt and you'll know
[03:24:11] <roh> there is no shunt. afaik its connected to CH3 somehow
[03:24:39] <Jymmm> I have NFC what "CH3" is
[03:24:49] <Jymmm> Channel 3 ?
[03:24:54] <KimK> Really? 1/2 A seems like quite a bit of current for a 30 to 50 W gas tube. It must have a pretty low "on" voltage. Lower than I would have guessed, anyway.
[03:24:55] <roh> the 88pin connector on the schematic
[03:24:58] <roh> eh 8pin
[03:25:15] <Jymmm> roh: I'm too lazy to look
[03:25:16] <roh> KimK i dont believe the scale a bit.
[03:25:58] <Jymmm> roh: any bg fat resistors in there?
[03:26:02] <Jymmm> big
[03:26:39] <roh> on the board which connects the tube to this one, is one series-resistor.
[03:26:58] <roh> but its in series to the laser-tube and not connected to anything but the high-voltage transformers
[03:27:08] <Jymmm> that's not it
[03:27:10] <Valen> do keep in mind the wattages are output wattages not draw
[03:27:30] <Valen> on lasers generally
[03:29:11] <KimK> Jymmm: Your earlier comment reminds me of a joke I heard lately. Little Billy wasn't paying attention in arithmetic class, and the teacher got annoyed: "Billy! What's 2 and 4 and 8 and 22!" Billy answered, "ABC, NBC, Fox, and The Cartoon Network."
[03:29:28] <roh> somehow this thing still creeps me out. i'm a certified tv and communication electronics technician (3 years of learning), but that board is really on the edge
[03:29:41] <Jymmm> KimK: LOL
[03:30:32] <roh> i still wonder that it doesnt generate sparks. its less than a cm of space between some parts of the 'output', which is much less than whats needed to be 'safe by regulation' ;)
[03:30:53] <Jymmm> roh: pics of the board?
[03:30:58] <roh> below it there is a second pcb-like epoxy board, to insulate it against the case
[03:31:02] <roh> Jymmm mompls
[03:31:09] <Jymmm> what?!
[03:31:53] <Jymmm> roh: blink three times if yout gaged
[03:32:34] <KimK> * KimK thinks it's either a gang of home invaders or "text-speak" for "moment please"?
[03:32:50] <L84Supper> roh: are pins 2 and 3 really connected to each other on OK2?
[03:33:15] <Jymmm> KimK: I vote is for hoem invader midgets
[03:33:49] <L84Supper> or that the isolation bypass? :)
[03:34:30] <KimK> <small_font>"Follow the yellow brick road! And give us all your money!"</small_font>
[03:34:34] <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/tmp/laser_hv-board_back.jpg
[03:34:39] <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/tmp/laser_hv-board_front.jpg
[03:36:37] <Jymmm> that looks like a lo voltage board. two bridges
[03:36:51] <Jymmm> maybe pwm board
[03:36:58] <Jymmm> slash PS
[03:37:22] <L84Supper> yeah, no HV other than the rectified 220VAC
[03:37:55] <Jymmm> whats behind the heatsinks?
[03:38:03] <Jymmm> LMxxx ???
[03:38:17] <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/tmp/laser_hv-board_mounted.jpg
[03:38:54] <roh> Jymmm check the schematics. its all in there. 2 IRFP460
[03:38:59] <roh> mosfet
[03:39:26] <Jymmm> 500V Single N-Channel HEXFET Power MOSFET
[03:39:53] <KimK> Have you got a pix of the inductor it drives? On the machine is OK, if it's attached. Excellent, you anticipated me again, thanks. So the red wire and the "resistor wire" go to the laser tube?
[03:39:53] <L84Supper> roh: all the data sheets are there, run the numbers with the values given....
[03:40:46] <L84Supper> roh: substitute a load for the laser tube and see what it does
[03:40:49] <Jymmm> whats the value of the resistor? I think that's a 50W resistor too
[03:42:03] <Jymmm> and where does that grey wire lead to?
[03:42:31] <roh> 30Kohm
[03:42:46] <mendel|failure> mendel|failure is now known as mendelbuild
[03:43:42] <Jymmm> I can't see how the flybacks are connected to the controller board.
[03:43:44] <roh> the green wires connect the 'hv-transformer-board' to the board i drew the schematic of.
[03:44:01] <Jymmm> ah ok
[03:44:01] <morfic> cradek: parents with little spoiled girls
[03:44:06] <roh> the yellow and the red wire connect the transformerboard to the lasertube
[03:44:14] <Jymmm> roh: Hi res photos next time please =)
[03:44:49] <L84Supper> ch2 connects to the HV stepup
[03:44:58] <roh> yes
[03:46:42] <L84Supper> any ozone smell?
[03:47:41] <L84Supper> you can test the regulator with a substitute load for the transformers and laser tube
[03:47:42] <roh> nope. not that i noticed.
[03:48:28] <roh> L84Supper nope. dont have loads, or a clue about the spec of these transformers. i got no documentation i havent written myself
[03:48:31] <Jymmm> roh: This is what happens if you are running a job on your laser and go pee http://i34.tinypic.com/eldwly.jpg
[03:48:50] <roh> uha... something went really wrong
[03:49:08] <Valen> oops
[03:49:09] <Jymmm> roh: close up http://i37.tinypic.com/sqh6r7.jpg
[03:49:14] <Valen> somebody is gonna be in the shit
[03:49:41] <Jymmm> Hit pause, but never walk away
[03:49:45] <roh> looks like it burned really hot
[03:49:49] <L84Supper> I though it was a photocopier
[03:50:06] <Jymmm> That is a laser engraver, they guy was gone 3 minutes to pee
[03:50:17] <Valen> long pee
[03:50:17] <roh> we are always near the machines. not exactly infront of it, but not more than seconds away.
[03:50:47] <roh> also i never leave it doing someting i havent done while watching it.
[03:50:47] <Jymmm> roh: Well it looks like you have yours in a cubby hole
[03:51:15] <L84Supper> is that a fashion velor fireproof jumpsuit?
[03:51:29] <roh> not fireproof. sadly
[03:51:54] <Jymmm> No, that's the gal that's out $30,000
[03:52:48] <roh> * roh uses cotton jumpsuits repurposed from germany army surplus. really tough textiles. saved me from some harm already while biking
[03:53:57] <Valen> I wanted to make up some kevlar clothing, but its impossible to find in a tight weave
[03:54:13] <Valen> its all rather coarse for doing fiberglassing etc with
[03:54:19] <Jymmm> My first laser engraving http://i38.tinypic.com/1zvyafo.jpg
[03:54:31] <Valen> lol snap
[03:55:12] <Jymmm> reverse carved on clear acrylic
[03:55:40] <elmo40> now this looks interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cladding A little expensive for prototyping but looks like the same concept(only with a laser).
[03:55:46] <elmo40> Jymmm: you should try it ;)
[03:56:29] <L84Supper> Jymmm: were your hands over you head in that pic or does your face not have a reflection? :)
[03:56:54] <Jymmm> L84Supper: no reflection
[03:56:55] <elmo40> he is a vampire...
[03:57:25] <roh> heh... about retrofitting our machine: i would completely swap the controllerboard, which also houses the 2 stepper drivers. will my parport be fast enough for the speeds one needs on a laser? or should i start asking for help funding a mesa board to connect to the parport in my hackspace?
[03:57:26] <L84Supper> I never realized that vampire things was only for faces
[03:57:28] <Jymmm> elmo40: I sorta been thinking about it, but the "additive" part I can't figure out
[03:57:39] <Jymmm> L84Supper: it's not
[03:58:19] <Jymmm> But right now, before I do anything, I need to figure out the air scrubber sound prooofing box
[03:59:26] <Jymmm> I need to figure out what "clamps" to use to hold on the lid
[03:59:40] <Jymmm> 36" x 14" apx
[03:59:50] <Jymmm> air tight
[04:01:34] <L84Supper> roh: up until the series resistor it's a ~220V oscillator
[04:02:53] <L84Supper> roh: B2 is used for regulation
[04:03:09] <L84Supper> well feedback for the regulator
[04:03:19] <roh> L84Supper its just hard cap
[04:03:24] <roh> no real regulation
[04:03:57] <roh> also i havent seen the relay do anything yet. need to check if thats also true when it 'flames out'
[04:04:12] <elmo40> I got in contact with these guys http://www.synrad.com/vseries/v40.htm about that laser. told them I wanted to make an interchangeable router/laser machine (swap it out for either head) and they said many people have tried with bad luck. they talked about the laser getting all 'dusty' causing poor performance. I think the guy was thinking a two-in-one machine, at the same time.
[04:04:22] <roh> when that effect happens its 'not cutting anymore' and seems to become 'unfocused' .. very weird
[04:04:50] <elmo40> Jymmm: I think the additive is powdered metal.
[04:05:10] <elmo40> there is a seminar on it I wasn't to attend. http://www.reseaumateriauxquebec.ca/LaserCladding/index.html
[04:05:16] <elmo40> too bad it is a 3.5hr drive :/
[04:05:34] <elmo40> *I want to
[04:08:57] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220663831119&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT says CNC but it looks like only DRO
[04:21:30] <elmo40> now this is a geeks dream toy! http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php
[04:42:23] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/MORI-SEIKI-AL-2-CNC-LATHE-/150487667725?pt=BI_Lathes&hash=item2309c3940d is that an iron oxide finish? :)
[04:45:35] <L84Supper> elmo40: http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/08/nes-playin-taiwanese-smartphone-comes-gamepad-equipped/
[04:45:53] <L84Supper> not as slick :)
[04:46:32] <Jymmm> How to you put a delay on a DC line?
[04:46:57] <L84Supper> Jymmm: what are you trying to delay?
[04:47:18] <L84Supper> or is this a trick question :)
[04:47:27] <Jymmm> two bulbs in parallel, and I want one bulb to light slightly before the other
[04:48:00] <Jymmm> maybe 2ms delay
[04:48:02] <L84Supper> RC circuit
[04:48:15] <Jymmm> ah crap
[04:48:35] <Jymmm> wait, will that just delay the DC in the tank?
[04:48:43] <Jymmm> or reduce it?
[04:49:06] <L84Supper> well, I guess I really should ask whats driving the circuit
[04:49:13] <Jymmm> a battery
[04:49:19] <L84Supper> and is the lamp the only load?
[04:49:23] <Jymmm> yep
[04:49:30] <Jymmm> well two of em
[04:49:53] <Jymmm> could I just wrap wire around the resistor for the inductor?
[04:50:14] <Jymmm> I'm assuming parallel
[04:50:25] <L84Supper> crude but sure
[04:50:33] <Jymmm> how many turns?
[04:50:40] <Jymmm> were talking 24ga wire
[04:50:42] <Jymmm> solid
[04:51:28] <L84Supper> rc + transistor switch
[04:51:37] <Jymmm> no transistor
[04:51:43] <Jymmm> all passive baby!
[04:52:14] <L84Supper> two relays, one with a tighter return sprint than the other
[04:52:27] <Jymmm> no relays =)
[04:52:44] <L84Supper> or a DP with one contact further apart than the other :)
[04:53:12] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks L84Supper with tube tester
[04:54:02] <Jymmm> One of the drug store sized!
[04:54:14] <L84Supper> the rc circuit will also keep the lamp lit form longer than the other
[04:54:28] <Jymmm> that's fine
[04:54:29] <L84Supper> sp for/form
[04:55:08] <Jymmm> It's really two flashing RGB LED's and I don't want them flashing in tandem =)
[04:56:13] <Jymmm> L84Supper: TY
[04:56:56] <L84Supper> really really long delay line..... hmm 2ms at 0.5C (c=speed of light) = 300Km
[04:57:20] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Actually, I DO have that. but it's fiber optic.
[04:57:26] <L84Supper> ~450Km using coax RG59 or similar
[04:57:51] <Jymmm> L84Supper: No, really. I DO have a fiber optice delay line.
[04:58:49] <Jymmm> 450nM iirc
[06:48:30] <alex_joni> L84Supper: they use special fiber for delays
[06:48:39] <alex_joni> slow propagation materials
[06:50:51] <L84Supper> I agree
[06:51:05] <Jymmm> I disagree
[06:51:14] <Jymmm> What am I disagreeing to?
[06:52:03] <L84Supper> 'I came in here for an argument and all you do is contradict me"
[06:52:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni: 30KM of fiber ~= 200mS delay
[06:52:22] <Jymmm> lol
[06:54:37] <alex_joni> Jymmm: they use optical delay lines in opti-switches
[06:54:55] <alex_joni> gotta delay the signal until you decode it and prepare the mirror ahead for the right position
[06:55:18] <Jymmm> alex_joni: This was in laser modules used in analog telementry
[06:55:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ie remote antennas in the desert, receiver 30KM away
[06:55:44] <alex_joni> guess it depends on the fiber
[06:56:12] <Jymmm> or for mountina top cell sites
[06:56:15] <alex_joni> I have from here: 28msec to amsterdam
[06:56:24] <alex_joni> 160 msec to across the ocean
[06:56:45] <alex_joni> surely a lot more than 30km :P
[06:56:54] <Jymmm> Well, the stuff we made was analog. Some are used at a reference inside HP T/E
[06:57:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni: $50,000 USD calibration reference =)
[06:58:08] <alex_joni> cool
[06:58:48] <Jymmm> and never dropped it either =)
[06:59:40] <NTU> My linux kernel patch against fixed the conflicting types but now rtai userspace won't compile: http://pastebin.com/TtPfyiGi Trade one broken thing for another. http://pastebin.com/zKEPptpP
[06:59:51] <alex_joni> http://failblog.org/2010/09/06/epic-fail-photos-genuine-fail/
[07:00:47] <alex_joni> NTU: you'll probably have more success asking on the RTAI mailing list
[07:06:02] <NTU> OK Thanks, I'll subscribe and ask there.
[07:11:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://www.harborfreight.com/laser-arbor-disc-96401.html
[07:14:10] <alex_joni> btw, how's your laser working?
[07:14:37] <alex_joni> that's a cool idea
[07:14:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, I thoguht so.
[07:15:04] <alex_joni> did any engravings yet?
[07:16:00] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I haven't really touched it lately. I've been focusing on designing an air scrubber/sound proof enclosure for the dust collector.
[07:16:03] <Jymmm> http://i38.tinypic.com/1zvyafo.jpg
[07:17:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I'm trying to make the enclosure fit under the laser (on the legs) so that I can jsut roll aorund both if I need too. http://www.engraversnetwork.com/uls/m300.html
[07:18:26] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I *think* I found some material I can use for sound proofin without worrying about sparks from the brush motor of the DC
[07:19:25] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Last few days I've just been doing a lot of reading on acustics, soundproofing, and materials.
[07:20:14] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I did find one sheet material, but in stamped on is "May ignite if in contact with sparks"
[07:20:20] <Jymmm> 18" tall
[07:20:42] <Birdman3131> Birdman3131 is now known as birdman3131|zzzz
[07:20:48] <Jymmm> alex_joni: That is reverse carved on clear acrylic
[07:29:21] <alex_joni> looks nice
[07:31:00] <Jymmm> thanks, my first engraving =)
[07:32:41] <Jymmm> Thought I was going to have to buy a new tube initially, but between drivers, settings, and sitting for 5+ years all it needed was some tweeking.
[07:32:54] <awallin> here's something that could be useful for cutting-simulation: http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.0794
[07:33:27] <Jymmm> So far, I've only had to replace the gas springs for the lid and got lucky to get those for $23 for the pair shipped.
[07:34:04] <awallin> bunny+dragon-beethoven
[07:34:07] <Jymmm> I feel very fortunant to get it.
[07:34:11] <awallin> that's their idea of machining...
[07:38:33] <Valen> somebody was talking about running their laser cutter off EMC, I'm not sure if its the best idea
[07:39:16] <Jymmm> some have, especially when the controller was dead
[07:39:50] <Jymmm> Valen: what were you thinking?
[07:39:55] <micges_work> I have two co2 lasers here (1.5kW and 1kW)
[07:40:06] <micges_work> under emc2
[07:40:08] <Jymmm> micges_work: bite me
[07:40:35] <Valen> sorry not cutters engravers
[07:40:41] <Valen> things that operate in a raster mode
[07:40:51] <micges_work> and I've retroffited 5 :D
[07:41:03] <Valen> because EMC cant change the laser power output fast enough
[07:41:49] <Jymmm> via paraport you mean?
[07:42:06] <Valen> the problem is changing the "spindle speed" resets the motion planner
[07:42:17] <Jymmm> really?
[07:42:50] <DaViruz_> how about making laser intensity Z?
[07:42:59] <DaViruz_> or some other axis
[07:43:00] <Valen> yah, the problem is it causes a tiny hickup
[07:43:05] <Valen> that was my suggestion
[07:43:07] <Jymmm> DaViruz_: You need the PWM to control the laser
[07:43:18] <Valen> you could do it
[07:43:32] <Valen> it was talked about in here before
[07:43:34] <alex_joni> there are 2 things
[07:43:40] <Jymmm> vary the step pulse
[07:43:48] <alex_joni> usign a laser for vector stuff (turn laser on, move, turn off)
[07:43:52] <alex_joni> and use it as a raster
[07:44:05] <alex_joni> for raster the current emc2 solutions aren't good
[07:44:20] <alex_joni> but there have been proposed sollutions, which nobody cared to implement yet
[07:44:34] <Jymmm> Um *MY* laser is NEVER 100% dudty cycle. It's PPI max is 1500
[07:44:42] <Valen> what was the reason you couldn't use an axis for laser power output?
[07:44:51] <Valen> the gcode wasn't pretty
[07:44:59] <alex_joni> Valen: blending
[07:45:02] <micges_work> alex_joni: what soultions? I don't remember..
[07:45:12] <Jymmm> To do the engraving above I did 750 PPI
[07:45:21] <alex_joni> micges_work: create a component which takes a 2D array
[07:45:25] <Jymmm> but that was raster
[07:45:31] <alex_joni> it gets fed from userspace (like hal_streamer)
[07:45:36] <micges_work> alex_joni: ah yes
[07:45:40] <alex_joni> and you set start/end for lines
[07:45:56] <alex_joni> then while emc2 is moving in straight lines, the component outputs on/off, laser power, whatnot
[07:46:11] <alex_joni> you can also do antialiasing and whatever you find interesting to implement
[07:46:53] <Valen> that was the problem with using an axis, the guy doing it was using parallel port output
[07:47:02] <alex_joni> Valen: so?
[07:47:18] <Valen> he needed PWM output to run his laser
[07:47:22] <alex_joni> you can do 15-20kHz on a parport pretty easily
[07:47:30] <alex_joni> that surely is enough for laser PWM
[07:47:31] <Valen> he was using spindle PWM output to controll his laser power
[07:47:48] <alex_joni> well, as everyone said (a gazillion times) that won't work
[07:47:48] <Valen> yeah but can you get PWM out for an axis on parrport?
[07:48:08] <alex_joni> you can get PWM out on parport.. no axis needed
[07:48:17] <alex_joni> pwmgen -> parport
[07:48:32] <alex_joni> then you can just change pwmgen parameters (frequency, duty-cycle, whatnot)
[07:48:43] <alex_joni> you can even do PDM which is probably better for this
[07:48:45] <Valen> If i'm being irritating let me know, i think i'm having a bit of a reaction to some antibiotics at the moment
[07:49:04] <alex_joni> nah, it's fine
[07:49:27] <Valen> feels like i'm 2 beers infront of everybody else, except i dont drink
[07:50:10] <Valen> I think the other reason for using an axis was it meant not having to change anything in the internals of EMC
[07:50:10] <Jymmm> Valen: Sure you didnt mix up the antibiotics with vicodin =)
[07:50:27] <Valen> thats the thing i stopped taking the pain killers yesterday
[07:50:28] <Valen> lol
[07:50:43] <Valen> (got 2 wisdom teeth out)
[07:51:00] <Jymmm> Valen: Well, maybe you did mix them up?
[07:51:18] <Valen> nah, very different
[07:51:47] <Valen> one of the antibiotics is fairly potent though
[07:53:30] <Jymmm> Valen: Amoxicillin?
[07:53:38] <Valen> thats the light weight one
[07:53:55] <Valen> metrodine
[07:55:05] <Jymmm> metrodin?
[07:56:00] <Valen> the active thing is metronidazole
[07:56:54] <Valen> think i'm getting better now
[07:56:59] <Valen> just a bit giddy
[07:58:09] <Valen> anyway, what do you guys think about sticking something like a 10-30W IR LED module onto a mill to do some lightweight sheet cutting?
[07:58:19] <Valen> or would we be better off with a plasma cutter
[07:59:16] <Jymmm> dizziness?
[07:59:23] <Valen> yah some
[07:59:29] <Jymmm> http://www.medicinenet.com/metronidazole-oral/article.htm
[07:59:32] <Jymmm> page 2
[07:59:55] <Jymmm> Valen: drink lots of water
[08:00:34] <Jymmm> Valen: It seems it has some funky interaction with the liver.
[08:01:01] <Valen> yeah, which would have done wonders with the panadine forte they had me on as well
[08:01:38] <Jymmm> you taking blood thinners?
[08:01:41] <Valen> nah
[08:01:46] <Jymmm> k
[08:02:19] <Valen> nah its nothing too bad, just a little dizzy, only got 2 more of them anyway
[08:02:34] <Jymmm> drink a lot of water though.
[08:02:59] <Valen> i normally do, but its been down quite a bit with the not wanting to open the mouth think lol
[08:03:23] <Valen> usually I'd drink 3L or more a day ;->
[08:03:46] <Valen> (we have some really really big glasses, 1L per glass)
[08:04:27] <Valen> might go have a drink ;->
[08:04:29] <Valen> thanks
[08:14:02] <Jymmm> Valen: get a straw
[08:14:13] <Valen> nah cant use a straw
[08:14:16] <Valen> the sucking is bad
[08:14:21] <Jymmm> Valen: water or cranberry juice
[08:14:47] <Valen> water is good enough for me, kidneys are doing enough work at the moment
[08:15:04] <Jymmm> the vitamin C is a good thing, plus the cranberry good for liver
[08:15:36] <Jymmm> and may easy the dizziness too
[08:15:48] <Valen> yah
[08:18:03] <alex_joni> use a IV bag
[08:18:09] <alex_joni> and let it drip into your mouth :P
[08:20:00] <Valen> maccas thickshakes were good
[08:20:18] <Valen> drinking em without the straw
[08:20:24] <Valen> what was weird is they tasted hot
[08:20:41] <Valen> heh getting back onto real food
[08:20:59] <Valen> but initally my "standard meal" was 2 cheeze burgers and a fillet o fish
[08:21:11] <Valen> took me an hour to eat lunch
[08:22:04] <Valen> thing that shits me is its not the teeth that hurt
[08:22:12] <Valen> its the freekin stiches
[08:22:22] <Valen> they go half way up my cheek
[08:25:34] <Jymmm> vicoden to the rescue
[08:25:41] <Valen> heh
[08:25:53] <Valen> nah trying to stay off that stuff
[08:30:21] <Valen> didn't seem to do much anyway
[13:03:55] <Jymmm> skunky!
[13:12:32] <skunkworks> Jymmm: !
[13:12:48] <skunkworks> did you get your package yet?
[13:12:48] <Jymmm> skunkworks: How the hell are ya?
[13:12:56] <skunkworks> hanging in there.
[13:13:06] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Will check today or tomorrow.
[13:13:21] <skunkworks> Jymmm: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU_O_Z7Vv8c
[13:13:31] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Still have that STD?
[13:13:49] <skunkworks> more than one!
[13:14:24] <skunkworks> I think I finally got rid of it.
[13:14:26] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Ah, very cool! You and your 1" acme ;)
[13:14:36] <skunkworks> oh yah - You saw it ;)
[13:14:50] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Oh, your one of those that have 39 STD that dont have names yet!
[13:15:19] <Jymmm> skunkworks: It's all good, I do that all the time when I'm excited about something
[13:15:57] <Jymmm> Just wait till I get this air scubber completed
[13:17:07] <skunkworks> heh
[13:18:27] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I just found out that audacity have a freq analysis plot feature. So I'm going to try and use that for reference in sound absorbtion
[13:19:05] <Jymmm> At least it'll give me an idea at what freqs I am attenuating
[13:21:03] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I'm taking a big guess at the material I found is the right stuff for the job. I'm just running out of time
[13:21:57] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1940213970.html
[13:22:49] <skunkworks> With all the thought you have put into it - I am sure it will work great
[13:24:13] <Jymmm> Thanks for the confidence, but like I said I'm taking a big guess in hoping (fingers crossed) that these recycled rubber floor mats will attenuate the dust collector.
[13:25:21] <Jymmm> skunkworks: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgl/R-100671772/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
[13:26:41] <Jymmm> They have the right pattern on them, heavy, yet soft, and since recycled they are "mooshed" together so fairly porus (but can rip easily)
[13:28:23] <Jymmm> only about 1/4" thick or so, so we'll see if that's enough or if I need to double them up.
[13:29:49] <Jymmm> I did find some sound deadening material, but I fear that if I use it might be a fire/explosion hazard.
[13:29:59] <skunkworks> heh
[13:30:02] <skunkworks> it go boom
[13:31:11] <elmo40> you WILL get addicted! http://numptyphysics.garage.maemo.org/ Uber fun game.
[13:31:20] <Jymmm> Well, in an enclosed contianer with a brushed motor that sparks and stamped on each sheet it says "Spark or ignition source may cause fire hazard" that's 18" tall, I take it to heart.
[13:35:43] <moopy> its says 'may cause' not 'will cause'
[13:36:17] <Jymmm> moopy: "Must be made fire retardant" to use
[13:37:07] <Jymmm> Unable to do that in this case. Will be in an enclosed area, with dust particals and an burshed motor.
[13:37:14] <Jymmm> brushed
[14:26:20] <birdman3131|zzzz> birdman3131|zzzz is now known as Birdman3131
[14:32:49] <JT-Work> * JT-Work closed the garage door with the 308 inside this morning
[14:33:04] <Jymmm> WOOHOO
[14:33:17] <Jymmm> Did you just move the garage instead of the 308?
[14:34:06] <Jymmm> JT-Work: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[14:34:22] <cradek> yay!
[14:34:34] <JT-Work> the 308
[14:34:50] <cradek> what a relief when the machine is at ground level and inside
[14:36:25] <Jymmm> who said anything abut ground level? I think he just dug a ditch and it's actually BELOW ground level, but in the garage =)
[14:36:43] <Jymmm> He does have that hackhow ya know =)
[14:36:48] <Jymmm> backhoe
[14:37:15] <JT-Work> yes, it went very smooth this morning took about an hour to set up everything then about 5 minutes to push it in
[14:41:04] <JT-Work> I even took a picture of the garage door going down with the 308 inside :)
[14:41:13] <JT-Work> Jymmm: what is a hackhow?
[14:41:56] <Jymmm> JT-Work: You would know it better as " tu dolla sucky sucky"
[14:42:41] <Jymmm> JT-Work: How much clearance did you have at the garage door?
[14:45:33] <JT-Work> about 4 inches in height and 18 on each side
[14:45:44] <Jymmm> nice
[14:47:19] <JT-Work> yes, and I was able push it almost all the way to it's temp resting spot
[14:47:30] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[14:47:45] <Jymmm> push or comealong it?
[14:49:56] <Jymmm> JT-Work: So, how does it feel to be the 6000+ lb movin, beer drinkin, nap takin, bbq makin, one man superman?
[14:51:32] <Jymmm> JT-Work: good job btw
[15:10:23] <JT-Work> thanks
[15:13:21] <JT-Work> I used the backhoe to push it into the garage with my other brother John watching and flagging
[15:15:07] <cradek> it's surprising how well 2x4s work as skis
[15:15:27] <Jymmm> =)
[15:17:37] <JT-Work> they were actually 1 x 8 or so
[15:18:23] <JT-Work> once I got them moving they slid pretty easy for having 6k on them
[15:19:11] <Jymmm> like they had a choice in the matter
[15:25:34] <Jymmm> If I made a box where the bottom is sorts like the brim of a tophat, is that putting excessive stress on the "tabs" to hold the entire weight?
[15:25:58] <Jymmm> ----------
[15:25:59] <Jymmm> | |
[15:25:59] <Jymmm> ----------------
[15:25:59] <Jymmm>
[15:26:23] <Jymmm> s/sorts/sorta/
[15:26:53] <JT-Work> not if the material is strong enough to hold the weight
[15:27:08] <Jymmm> 5/8 or 3/4 MDF 36" long
[15:27:36] <Jymmm> That tabs themselves would be 2"
[15:27:39] <Jymmm> each
[15:28:16] <JT-Work> are you going to through bolt the tabs with carriage bolts?
[15:34:43] <Jymmm> back from getting coffee...
[15:35:26] <Jymmm> You mean like mounting bolts? I wasn't planning on it, but I guess I could drill two or thee holes.
[15:35:30] <Jymmm> per tab
[15:37:01] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I'm building a box to fit *ON* the legs under the laser... http://www.engraversnetwork.com/uls/m300.html
[15:37:27] <Jymmm> larger pic http://www.engraversnetwork.com/uls/iimages/m300_big.jpg
[15:38:45] <Jymmm> JT-Work: The legs on the laser would break some bones if dropped on a foot
[15:39:09] <Jymmm> 2x3" steel tubing
[15:41:24] <JT-Work> I can't visualize what your building in my head...
[15:41:56] <Jymmm> Ok, gimme a few to sketch up something.... not gonna be pretty though
[15:42:22] <JT-Work> ok
[16:10:04] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I hope this makes sense... http://i51.tinypic.com/281g6eh.jpg
[16:10:40] <Jymmm> JT-Work: the "blue" is the bottom of the box with the tabs the sit on the legs of the laser.
[16:10:54] <JT-Work> yea, that makes sense to me
[16:11:20] <Jymmm> JT-Work: the red dashed line is the box the is sitting recesed in the the legs
[16:11:23] <JT-Work> is the box open on the bottom?
[16:11:37] <Jymmm> No, it will be opened on the front
[16:12:12] <JT-Work> just make the bottom the width needed and attach the sides to that
[16:12:15] <Jymmm> the whole front panel will be removable
[16:13:06] <Jymmm> I could double the side walls, that would give an added 3/4" tab support per side
[16:13:24] <Jymmm> 1.5" thick side walls
[17:17:22] <bill20r3> I'm getting ready to EMC'ify a reprap machine, and am wondering how I'd configure the extruder "axis". Guessing something similar to the setup of a CNC wirefeed welder, is that a good approach?
[17:18:35] <awallin_> I guess you want the extruder either on or off. when it's on the axis movement should be proportional to the distance travelled in xy ?
[17:19:33] <bill20r3> it's a stepper driven extuder, so it actually get's fed g-code where the 'coordinate' increments in coordination with the desired extrusion amount/speed.
[17:20:15] <bill20r3> same as a wirefeed welder would, I'm assuming.
[17:20:35] <bill20r3> * bill20r3 has never actually seen of a cnc wirefeed welder.
[17:22:18] <skunkworks> stepgen in velocity mode? you would tell it to despence at a rate. maybe
[17:23:47] <bill20r3> well, you tell it an amount, so like "G1 X10.0 Y10.0 E5.0" would move from the current location to 10,10, and dispense 5mm of extrusion along the way.
[17:24:26] <bill20r3> I'm more wondering about how emc/axis would handle/visualize such an axis.
[17:24:26] <elmo40> e5.0 is the speed of the motor? akin to the RPM of a spindle?
[17:25:03] <elmo40> but it is a stepper... make it a 4th axis and figure out the pulses/rev and such.
[17:25:07] <bill20r3> E5.0 is the amount of extrusion to spit out. equivalent to "use 5mm of welding wire"
[17:25:19] <elmo40> 5mm wide?
[17:25:32] <elmo40> or consume 5mm of plastic wire?
[17:25:47] <bill20r3> the later.
[17:25:52] <elmo40> so if you had it for 10.0 it would consume 10mm of wire in the same distance?
[17:25:55] <bill20r3> yes.
[17:26:06] <bill20r3> and you'd end up with a 'fatter' deposition of plastic.
[17:26:43] <elmo40> then it is like a 4th axis. should be simple enough. you could program it to be A and give it the correct setup in stepconf
[17:27:34] <bill20r3> ok. sounds like I'm only complicating it in my head.
[17:28:38] <bill20r3> do you know if Axis can be set up to visualize that 4th axis in an arbitrary manner? like faster-extrusion is drawn with a darker color?
[17:37:30] <elmo40> in my mind EMC could view it as a 4th axis. Unless it complicates things with Axis and it rotates the whole part... maybe another stepper function is required. Would the PLC give step commands?
[17:43:59] <tom3p> sounds like inverse time... gimme 10 mL hot glue while moving 7mm in X and 4 mm in y, begin & end at same time
[17:50:32] <bill20r3> yes, that's an accurate description of the setup I'm after.
[17:53:30] <bill20r3> although the "E"(extrusion value) is currently a relative number, to minimize accumulated round-off error. (it resets periodically, at each "Z" move, btw.)
[17:58:04] <tom3p> yes, all motion would be relative. useful for 'end of glue' maybe. configure it as an axis , dont try to interpolate it, just ONLY use inverse time when you want gluing. the trouble/benefit is the other axis moe slowly to accomodate the glue in that mode. Dont use that mode for positioning, only gluing.
[18:07:36] <bill20r3> ok, I think I understand.
[18:13:20] <L84Supper> how about setting up a FIFO or FIFO's with values for E, (E might = laser power, fluid pressure, ink volume etc) that gets clocked by the axis it's needed in?
[18:16:06] <bill20r3> Btw, "E" may be reversed, too. Sometimes you want to roll-back the extrusion feedstock a bit to avoid ooze.
[18:20:34] <tom3p> dont try to use EMC2 for any reverse. use HAL or rewrite EMC's traj planner (enforces next is fwd along path ) . there aint no reverse gear in EMC2
[18:20:46] <bill20r3> Is the basic difference between a LINEAR and an ANGULAR axis that the angular axis values wrap around, but linear axiss have stops at each end?
[18:21:09] <alex_joni> bill20r3: no, there are no real differences
[18:21:29] <alex_joni> you can have wraparound rotary axes, but only recently, and you need some special config incantations for that
[18:21:31] <bill20r3> aj, more of a pointer for Axis to know how to visualize it?
[18:29:30] <ichudov> Can anyone recommend an electronic edge finder that can approach a part from above without breaking (Z axis approach).
[18:29:59] <ichudov> That way I can take my time hooking up the probe
[18:34:54] <alex_joni> bill20r3: not sure I understand what you're asking
[18:35:31] <cradek> ichudov: how about just mount a cheapie dial indicator in a tool holder?
[18:35:54] <bill20r3> alex_joni, I was asking if the ini file configuration value for axis type (angular|linear) is used by the Axis GUI to know how to visualize that axis.
[18:36:06] <cradek> ichudov: or what I do: just roll a dowel pin under the tool while slowly lifting it with the jog wheel
[18:36:36] <cradek> bill20r3: angular/linear in the ini file are not used for anything, they are a historical oddity
[18:36:44] <bill20r3> ahh, ok.
[18:36:47] <cradek> bill20r3: XYZ, UVW are linear. ABC are angular.
[18:37:30] <bill20r3> are those enforced types, or just by convention?
[18:39:01] <cradek> the answer to that is probably "it depends" unless you give more information. one difference is that xyzuvw change units with g20/g21, and abc don't because they are not ever inches OR mm
[18:39:20] <cradek> I'm not really sure how to answer your questions
[18:39:57] <cradek> there's nothing to say you can't hook up something linear as B, but it'll be goofy with respect to units and feed rates etc
[18:40:10] <bill20r3> I mean, in terms of EMC2 config files, if axis types are tied to the name(letter), or if it's just "the usual names" that axis's are given.
[18:40:42] <bill20r3> ok, so they're usual-names, they don't have any magical meaning in terms of emc configs.
[18:40:44] <bill20r3> thanks.
[18:40:52] <cradek> in EMC xyzabcuvw are the names of the 9 axes. you can't call them anything else.
[18:41:07] <bill20r3> Okk.
[18:41:39] <bill20r3> believe it or not, I've actually used emc before, but it was a textbook x/y/z mill, so I didn't have to learn much about the config details.
[20:50:55] <moopy> has anyone got an idea what 'Exceeded negative soft limit on joint 0' means in axis???
[20:51:51] <moopy> has anyone got an idea what 'Exceeded negative soft limit on joint 0' means in axis???
[20:52:02] <bill20r3> uhm, I'd guess just what is says.
[20:52:27] <bill20r3> there's a setting for soft-limit, the point of "never move past here", and you moved past there.
[20:52:44] <moopy> but the position is well between my MAX_LIMIT and MIN_LIMIT ini params
[20:53:40] <bill20r3> I thnink the soft limits are different settings, perhaps they dont match.
[20:54:16] <moopy> do you know what the parameternames are to define in the ini file?
[20:56:25] <bill20r3> not offhand, but I saw it recently, sec.
[20:58:39] <bill20r3> hmm, no luck, maybe the answer is in here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch
[21:57:29] <ichudov> cradek: great idea about dial indicator.
[23:59:27] <alex_chally> hi all
[23:59:41] <alex_chally> have any of you guys played with induction furnaces?