#emc | Logs for 2010-08-18

[00:01:12] <skunkworks> mozmck: thanks for the livecd. (have not tested the latest - but I have installed the first try on a few computers. Works great!
[00:01:23] <skunkworks> I did download it though ;)
[00:02:35] <mozmck> you're welcome! I've tried the latest on two computers so far with no problems (and used qemu on the iso)
[00:03:20] <mozmck> hopefully the latest will be good to go.
[00:05:13] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:06:33] <skunkworks> I cannot believe how fast it boots
[00:10:00] <Valen> mozmck: sounds like a 10.04 cd hmmm?
[00:10:36] <mozmck> yes, second try, hopefully the final one. http://www.linuxcnc.com/mozmck
[00:10:39] <Valen> what cable would you guys recommend for a tool length probe, something thats going to be mounted on the bed and moving all over the place
[00:11:22] <mozmck> uh, here's the right link: http://www.linuxcnc.org/mozmck
[00:11:55] <mozmck> skunkworks: yeah, they really did some work on the boot time for 10.04
[00:14:36] <Valen> be carefull with it, I'm having issues with services not starting on some machines because upstart is starting the service before the console is writable or the network up
[00:15:13] <Valen> mozmck: that linuxcnc.com looks sooo much like a squatter site lol
[00:15:50] <Valen> ahh, thats because it is
[00:15:55] <mozmck> I think so.
[00:16:16] <Valen> I'll grab it and install it on our dual core atom machine
[00:16:18] <mozmck> Are you using the latest updates and still having problems?
[00:16:21] <Valen> SMP by default in this one?
[00:16:23] <Valen> yes
[00:16:40] <Valen> its a race issue, because its intermittent
[00:16:41] <mozmck> SMP, and up-to-date as of a few days ago.
[00:16:47] <Valen> funky++
[00:16:58] <Valen> thats going to become the live version?
[00:17:03] <Valen> (assuming it works)
[00:17:05] <mozmck> yuck.
[00:17:22] <Valen> it is like 50% of the time and 50% of the services
[00:17:36] <mozmck> yes, I think so. The first one had some minor problems that are fixed in this iso.
[00:17:39] <Valen> linux gets really messed up without cron I can tell you that
[00:17:56] <Valen> and when ssh doesn't start it makes it hard to fix
[00:18:13] <mozmck> huh. I'm using 10.04 on several machines without those kinds of problems - I think.
[00:18:31] <Valen> same here
[00:18:37] <Valen> but I have one with the problem
[00:18:45] <mozmck> I may have removed upstart on this machine - I can't remember.
[00:18:58] <Valen> don't think you can any more
[00:19:09] <Valen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/543506?comments=all
[00:19:13] <mozmck> this one has some intermittent problems, mostly on boot.
[00:19:34] <Valen> what kind of problems?
[00:19:56] <morfic> mozmck: when you built rtai and emc2 for the first time, you ever come across unresolved symbols in rtapi? can't see what step i must have skipped
[00:20:20] <mozmck> sometimes it will just sit there until I hit a key and then it will continue loading.
[00:21:08] <mozmck> once it got to the login screen and I didn't login for a while and it wouldn't take any key input, but the mouse still worked and I could click the menus and all.
[00:21:41] <morfic> patched kernel, built it, installed modules, boots fins and i can run the rtai testsuite latency test, then i built rtai "for most uses the default should be good enough" so only changed number of cpus in .rtai_config, built, installed, then built and installed emc2, rtapi.ko ends up with unresolved symbols
[00:21:47] <Valen> take a look at that bug
[00:21:55] <mozmck> morfic: I don't remember having that.
[00:22:21] <mozmck> unless it is because you forgot to turn off module versioning in the kernel config.
[00:23:47] <morfic> that i only saw mentioned in a forum post "turning off module versioning, but didn't help" so it seemed like a random try by the guy, since i didn't come across it anywhere else
[00:23:57] <morfic> so yeah looks like you found it then
[00:25:34] <mozmck> morfic: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Ubuntu10.04Notes
[00:26:23] <mozmck> I made a note there that I still had to disable Module Versioning to get the emc stuff to work, even though I could run the rtai latency tests.
[00:26:54] <morfic> you mean in the long list of build options, i kept scrolling past 10.04 page that's there since may?
[00:28:19] <mozmck> heh, hard to believe it's been there since may.
[00:28:20] <morfic> morfic: what kernel version did you put on your cd?
[00:28:48] <mozmck> um, ubuntu 2.6.32-22 from their git tree.
[00:29:29] <mozmck> have you tried my kernel and packages?
[00:30:14] <mozmck> Valen: not sure if that bug is what I'm seeing or not.
[00:30:44] <Valen> take a look at /var/log/boot.log it seems to be indicative
[00:30:53] <Valen> also check your runlevel
[00:30:55] <mozmck> Valen: I removed ureadahead - not upstart. That fixed some problems I was seeing on this machine (6-core AMD)
[00:31:12] <morfic> mozmck: i am on gentoo, with the italian gentoo user, i figured i refresh my mind, and yes i had a rtai kernel, yes i built the sim, i don't think i got to building emc before nuking laptop and moving to a desktop
[00:31:16] <mozmck> Boots slower now, but pretty reliable.
[00:31:21] <Valen> yeah that fixed that problem on some mythbuntu boxes
[00:31:48] <Valen> I think slowing it down helps prevent the race
[00:31:59] <morfic> mozmck: i am asking since what he tripped over is emc2's configure script tripping on the fact in the 2.6.34 i built the stuff is not linux/uts_* but generated/uts_*
[00:32:12] <Valen> but there have been people where its starting gdm before the networking or even nvidia/whatever drivers
[00:32:54] <mozmck> morfic: I see. I haven't messed with 2.6.34 yet. I might soon though and see what I can figure out.
[00:32:56] <morfic> mozmck: 6core? i hate you :) they now sell quad thubans, buy 4, use 5 or 6 ;)
[00:34:04] <Valen> intel 6 cores not avaliable yet?
[00:34:19] <morfic> mozmck: did you see a ton of warnings during make modules_install (if that is visible during debian kernel builds)
[00:34:20] <mozmck> morfic: well, if it wasn't for the 6-core I'd still be compiling kernels :)
[00:34:30] <morfic> Valen: don't want intel anymore
[00:34:31] <Valen> mozmck: distcc ftw?
[00:34:35] <Valen> why?
[00:34:44] <morfic> laggy
[00:34:51] <Valen> in what sense?
[00:35:28] <mozmck> Valen: I didn't use distcc, but the ubuntu build system used all 6 cores. built complete packages from scratch in 17 min.
[00:35:46] <Valen> thats pretty fast for a kernel
[00:35:55] <Valen> I meant add distcc to the mix for more win ;->
[00:36:03] <jepler-> I thought we'd incorporated a patch for the move of utsrelease.h but apparently not
[00:36:29] <mozmck> intel stuff costs way more for not that much gain, and the SMI stuff is problematic.
[00:36:32] <jepler-> jepler- is now known as jepler
[00:36:47] <morfic> the system stalling that is aplague on linux, with a little extra that only happens to/on intel systems, after i switched from intel c2d to this amd machine, a friend sent me a link to a patch addressing it, something about blacklisting or whitelisting, since i didn't use the laggy thing anymore, i didn't read it fully
[00:36:47] <Valen> so its an EMC specific thing?
[00:37:19] <Valen> I use intel exclusivley and i havent had any problems
[00:37:42] <mozmck> I use AMD because I can get more speed for my limited funds :)
[00:38:26] <Valen> I use intel because they are lower power and more reliable in the long term, I havent looked in too much detail at the price
[00:38:38] <morfic> jepler: maybe i need to check i switch branches, i didn't get to that last night, says 2.4, splash says 2.5pre, so i focused on the module symbol stuff, "focused", it's gotten late, and i had to spend my time drilling some hot job castings/ordering tools
[00:38:43] <Valen> tis hard to compare "speed" these days
[00:39:18] <Valen> so whats this laggy you speak of?
[00:39:24] <jepler> no, I think it's not there :-/
[00:39:25] <mozmck> I put together a 6-core AMD with 4gig mem 500 gig hd and new 890FX motherboard for around $500 I believe.
[00:39:34] <Valen> thats pretty good
[00:39:35] <jepler> want to let me know if this fixes the utsrelease.h problem in configure? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/0001-Linux-2.6.34-moved-utsrelease.h.patch
[00:39:39] <morfic> can't compare speed unless you build a lot of source packages or you process a lot of raw images from a trip to austin
[00:39:50] <Valen> heh
[00:40:11] <mozmck> The closest intel speed-wise I saw, the cpu cost more than $500!
[00:40:31] <Valen> keep in mind, last i checked intel did loads more per clock than AMD
[00:40:59] <mozmck> don't know about that. this one is as fast as I need.
[00:41:13] <morfic> jepler: do you want me to try it or just look at it and say yes, that's going to work, because the dirs are what i manually changed it to? :) i can git pull and patch and build after i boot new kernel
[00:41:15] <morfic> brb
[00:41:42] <jepler> morfic: your choice
[00:45:19] <Valen> it started out the other way around, intel and amd were clock for clock in the P3 days, then intel came out with P4's which did less per clock but could clock much faster, AMD came out with model numbers to compete (IE rather than a "pentium 233" it was the amd X300) eventually intel ran out of mhz in the netburst archetecture and came up with the "core" series which went back to doing lots per clock and running slower
[00:45:41] <morfic> jepler: should work, going to try it now
[00:49:22] <morfic> jepler: configure loves it for this 2.6.34-magma now
[00:49:25] <Valen> though an extra 2 cores might throw the balance the other way for highly parallel tasks
[00:50:10] <morfic> intel vs amd was almost always drive through lane vs counter inside
[00:50:29] <Valen> counter inside of course
[00:52:02] <Valen> if amd comes out with a low power, cpu that can beat the intels on performance and price then i'll go there
[00:52:14] <Valen> but intel have really done well with the atom as well
[00:52:17] <jepler> morfic: thanks for testing, pushed to master this time around
[00:52:19] <morfic> i used to breath specs, now i vote with my wallet, where amd gets me more bang for the buck
[00:52:30] <Valen> thats debatable though
[00:52:47] <Valen> http://www.hardcoreware.net/amd-vs-intel-100-150-dollar-cpu/8/
[00:53:00] <Valen> was just taking a look back through stuff
[00:53:22] <morfic> * master, so i was on master, good, thanks for reminding me to check jepler :)
[00:54:18] <Valen> the quad core phenom is on par with the dual core I3 even at multi threaded stuff it seems
[00:54:35] <jepler> bbl
[00:54:40] <morfic> i have the X2 550 PH II, fun cpu
[00:55:07] <Valen> quad core q6600's for my main desktop
[00:55:22] <Valen> though I'll hopefully dump that and get a new I5 based one
[00:55:49] <Valen> (by dump i mean sell to client ;->)
[00:55:54] <morfic> 4th core doesn't come up, 3rd does, unless i talk about it like last night, i said i get a free core, reboot to rtai, "cpu1 did not come online"
[00:57:07] <Valen> brb
[01:01:56] <morfic> wb
[01:02:06] <Valen> thanks
[01:07:28] <Valen> got a good server for that iso mozmck
[01:07:35] <Valen> getting ~500K to australia
[01:07:44] <Valen> spoke too soon, 300k
[01:07:47] <Valen> 500k
[01:08:22] <Valen> mozmck: got a repo setup for emc in 10.04?
[01:08:31] <morfic> close, emc now starts, once a config is chosen, USRMOT times out, i'll check after i fetch me some food
[01:08:33] <morfic> thanks mozmck
[01:24:10] <Jymmm> dont ya hate it when you wer laytex gloves then your hands are all sweaty when you take them off
[01:25:04] <ichudov> cradek, I mae some changes to TTT, let me know what you think
[01:25:10] <ichudov> s/mae/made/
[01:25:49] <Jymmm> ichudov: ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Those are disgusting!
[01:26:11] <Jymmm> ichudov: Wait, what are we talking about?
[01:27:50] <ichudov> I added some extra flags to truetype tracer to output G code subs, take X0 and Y0 and feedrate from command line
[01:28:02] <ichudov> But it is all waiting for cradek to look at
[01:28:11] <Jymmm> ichudov: I was just kidding around =)
[01:28:29] <ichudov> i know
[01:28:32] <Jymmm> =)
[01:29:45] <ichudov> did you see this http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/two-machines-209340/ , some people are quite confused
[01:32:36] <morfic> what about his german?
[01:39:04] <mozmck> Valen: yes, there is a repo for 10.04. It is in the apt-sources on the livecd and should be in the sources.list.d after installation.
[01:40:18] <Valen> cool Just seeing how "live" it all is
[01:40:23] <Valen> sounding really good man
[01:40:34] <Valen> I'll put it into "production" next time I visit our mill
[01:41:17] <Valen> be nice having SMP in the repo so i wont need to compile all my own stuff to stay up to datw
[01:42:47] <mozmck> let me know if something isn't right.
[01:43:18] <mozmck> I also put enough dev stuff on the CD that you can compile a .comp from the live CD
[01:46:16] <Valen> .comp?
[01:48:45] <Valen> if theres room include gparted
[01:49:09] <Valen> thats always handy on an install disk ;->
[01:49:14] <mozmck> look up comp in the emc docs. it's a simple way to make components.
[01:51:38] <mozmck> gparted is already on it. Looks like it was already because I didn't install it that I remember.
[01:53:16] <Valen> thats handy
[01:53:28] <Valen> must be default in 10.04
[02:06:37] <Jymmm> Why are you guys so adamant about going to 10.04? Becasue it's new?
[02:08:35] <CrabbyCoconut> CrabbyCoconut is now known as CoconutCrab
[02:09:54] <ichudov> 10.04 is really great as a general purpose desktop OS
[02:10:34] <Jymmm> released too early.
[02:10:59] <ichudov> it is pretty good, though not bug free
[02:13:34] <mozmck> So adamant? We're just doing it, that's all :)
[02:13:52] <mozmck> bbl
[02:14:12] <hesperaux> does LinuxCNC support gerber and/or .cnc drill files?
[02:14:40] <alex_chally> damnit, my hdd is DOA. It will be difficult to install this live cd on the dead drive.
[02:22:17] <Valen> ichudov: check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/543506?comments=all
[02:22:42] <Valen> 10.04/upstart has a pretty serious issue
[02:23:14] <Valen> I think upstart needs a fair bit of work, and all the init scripts at least for major services should be made into upstart if they are going to use it
[02:33:38] <Valen> know where i would get beldn 7404a cable from without buying a reel?
[02:41:06] <atmega> I'll sell you any length you want up to 250' for $375
[02:41:27] <Valen> heh ;-P
[02:41:29] <Valen> thanks
[02:41:54] <atmega> 7pair seems kind of.... odd.
[02:42:01] <Valen> i know
[02:42:09] <Valen> dont they know its sposed to be an even number?
[02:42:45] <Valen> making a tool length measurer, I figure thats probably the best cable to use on it
[02:43:03] <ichudov> I know, I was bitten by this on one server that I am managing. That upstart is not really in good shape
[02:43:26] <ichudov> I am subscribed to that bug
[02:43:29] <Valen> removing ureadahead and the other things mentioned in that are sposed to help
[02:43:45] <ichudov> I removed dependency on /dev/console
[02:43:59] <Valen> that fix it?
[02:44:07] <Valen> i'm trying to fix my mums mythbuntu install
[02:44:14] <ichudov> It works. I purposely reboot that server every hour and it is good now
[02:44:15] <Valen> thing is its 600km away
[02:44:50] <ichudov> It's OK, I manage servers remotely all the time
[02:45:24] <Valen> yeah, makes fucking around with boot stuff rather nerve racking
[02:45:30] <ichudov> I know
[02:46:18] <Valen> atmega: where did you get that price from?
[02:46:36] <ichudov> valen, the good news is that sshd is started anyway. Even if the machine stops booting
[02:46:50] <Valen> howd you manage that?
[02:47:08] <Valen> I thaught I was being clever putting a thing in cron to start apache, then cron didnt start lol
[02:47:45] <ichudov> Well, what actually happens is that it starts booting, starts sshd (which is not dependent on console), goes on, and is stuck on console. But sshd is working. So if you know her IP, you can logon.
[02:48:33] <Valen> lucky you
[02:49:31] <ichudov> Yes, cron does not start
[02:49:34] <ichudov> but sshd does
[02:51:25] <Valen> find out soon, I too #ed out the console line
[02:51:40] <Valen> her tv uses automatic startup and shutdown for recordings
[03:13:54] <cradek> ichudov: I got your changes, thanks! I like the O-sub change, and the way you handled the arguments. I see what you were doing with concatenating all of argv with spaces, but using a fixed size buffer and then blindly strcatting into it is asking for trouble - can you improve that part?
[03:15:03] <cradek> ichudov: either you could redo the main rendering "while" loop to be argv-aware and avoid the copying, or you could do the copying in any of a couple better ways that prevent overrun.
[03:16:01] <cradek> ichudov: (I think fixing the main loop would be the cleanest solution but I haven't looked too closely)
[03:18:44] <morfic> are the usrmot timeouts typical on a pc w/o a motion controller?
[03:20:07] <cradek> ?
[03:58:21] <morfic> cradek: emc2 finally gets past the undefined symbols in rtapi.ko that kept it from starting before, now it starts, once a configuration is selected it bails after some lines of s.axis waiting and USRMOT: ERROR: timeout, what i asked was WILD guess on what limited google hits i got on usrmot
[04:04:33] <morfic> i should ask micges: http://pastebin.com/BQwbBNvs looks like that, just that it gives up eventually
[04:11:07] <morfic> othris ~ # latency-test
[04:11:07] <morfic> /etc/init.d/realtime: line 107: /sbin/lsmod: No such file or directory
[04:11:42] <morfic> it's in /bin/lsmod here
[04:13:00] <ichudov> cradek: are you there
[04:15:02] <ichudov> Anyway, the buffer is 2048 bytes long, which is pretty big. But if you would like me to do it cleanly with the main loop going through argv, I can certainly do it. Just let me know
[04:17:42] <morfic> fascinating, while i could not start emc2 because of the versioning, i could run the rtai latency test, now emc2 starts, but the rtai latency test no longer runs
[04:26:00] <ichudov> cradek: I emailed you one more version of ttt.c. The manpage and makefile stays the same as what I emailed you last time
[04:47:16] <hesperaux> does anyone use gerber files in their CNC project?
[05:16:17] <elmo40> Jymmm: never released too early. it is the microsoft philosophy. release and accept bug reports from the 'general' testers ;)
[05:16:34] <elmo40> just don't call it RC or Beta. that way they can call it an 'official' release
[05:16:55] <Jymmm> I'll call them Beta Bitches
[05:37:14] <Jymmm> elmo40: I'll call them Beta Bitches
[05:40:58] <elmo40> ;)
[07:45:04] <alex_joni> meh, 10.04 still won't install on my laptop
[07:45:16] <alex_joni> everything works ok, until the first reboot when grub fails :(
[08:08:06] <pingufan> Hi, yesterday I ordered 3 stepper drives from gecko: G251. I am sure that this is almost the best I can get for this money. What I am a little bit unsure about is: I built my own breakout board. It uses TI1722 isolators, so I need a separate supply (5V) for every half of it. Shall I pick the power from a USB port or from my CNC-mill through a DC-DC converter (also making it potential free) ?
[08:14:14] <pingufan> Can someone, please give me some advice?
[08:20:00] <fragalot> USB port is 5V why would you need a DC-Dc converter?
[08:20:30] <fragalot> also - bear in mind that you can only get about 200 or 300mA from a single USB port if it's not a proper USB device that's plugged in and has authenticated.
[08:20:45] <fragalot> but if you need that much power for a breakout board you're probably doing it wrong anyway :P
[08:21:34] <fragalot> pingufan: however - using 5V from the USB bus kindof renders the point of having isolators void..
[08:25:40] <pingufan> Let me explain... The isolators I use have two independend power supplies. One for ithe input side, one for the output side. So I supply the mill's side from the mill, the PC side either through a DC-DC converter (needs only a few mA), or from USB. DC-DC will reduce cableing.
[08:26:33] <alex_joni> if you have a separate power supply from the mill side, then either USB or DC-DC is ok
[08:26:50] <alex_joni> but you will have to connect grounds together (PC side) so the DC-DC is overkill
[08:27:02] <alex_joni> (if I understand your setup..)
[08:27:08] <pingufan> Can power peaks pass over a DC-DC converter?
[08:27:53] <pingufan> Even ground is separated (mill side and PC side).
[08:28:14] <pingufan> Really a 100% isolation.
[08:31:55] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[08:56:19] <IchGuckLive> hi from rainy germanx
[08:56:38] <IchGuckLive> do you think someone needs a script like this
[08:56:41] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VAYY63dwkA
[08:57:22] <IchGuckLive> i wrote this for a speed and acuraty test and inproved it a bit
[08:59:12] <IchGuckLive> if some of you will think its good i will bring it to the wiki
[09:00:45] <Valen> heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_h_LNCJ94
[09:01:49] <Valen> must have a pretty decent servo rate
[09:03:08] <Valen> ahh, its a stepper machine thing
[09:40:15] <pingufan> Please, can somebody tell me how to create Gcode from CAD drawings? I want to draw i.e. with AutoCAD a milling scheme and then generate a GCODE file from it. I actually need only 2.5D and no real 3D, but the converter should be able to repeat every polygon and hereby adjust the Z-axis so I can mill one polygon in multiple steps. Which software is free and works fine for that?
[09:53:29] <bricofoy> pingufan, try dxf2gcode
[09:56:03] <pingufan> Hello! Thanks for your kindness. Do you know this software?
[10:04:42] <bricofoy> nope
[10:04:59] <bricofoy> try google to fond more about it
[10:05:02] <bricofoy> find
[10:06:18] <bricofoy> also you may want to have a look at the mailling list archive, there was large discussions about CAM programs some monthes agos
[10:37:22] <Gangsta> morning (just)
[10:39:44] <cpresser> pingufan: heeks-CAM also should do the job
[10:42:52] <Gangsta> always find this a strange channel, say hi and you get No reply. Ask why your z axis only travels @ 2ipm and the replys flood in. lol
[10:43:23] <pingufan> :)
[10:44:03] <pingufan> Hope that -- when I finished the hardware part of my mill -- I'll get the help I hope.
[10:44:15] <pingufan> Hi, Gangsta
[10:44:33] <Gangsta> lol, hi pingu fan
[10:45:04] <Gangsta> the guys here are great, very helpful just not very talkartive
[10:45:18] <pingufan> I know. :P
[10:45:47] <Gangsta> what kind of mill ylou building
[10:47:19] <pingufan> You want to laugh? It is meanwhile 3 years ago that I bought a damaged mill (burned electronics). Now I decided to finish it. It is a little former engraving machine, but very rugged and heavy. I want to convert it into a real CNC mill for 2.5D
[10:48:31] <pingufan> After I burned the 3rd set stepper drivers (this crazy 297/298 ones, I decided now to buy gecko drives. :)
[10:49:14] <Gangsta> sound good. I can beat it though. it was 12 years I decided to start converting my orac lathes
[10:49:36] <pingufan> Still not finished? Whow...
[10:50:10] <Gangsta> and the joke of that. when i sat down to do it, all 3 were upand running within 2 days
[10:50:25] <Gangsta> just tweeking now!
[10:50:56] <pingufan> Hope it works that way here, too.
[10:51:30] <Gangsta> and building a 3 axis machine now for routing and plasma
[10:51:46] <pingufan> I get in a project where I have to mill plastic enclosures for it. Last time I borrowed a CNC mill, but I don't want to repeat that.
[10:52:13] <Gangsta> thats what i need to do too
[10:53:11] <pingufan> Try to find a picture of my mill...
[10:53:17] <Gangsta> i make replacement instrument cluster for cars, but have to sub the plastic milling
[10:53:25] <Gangsta> cool
[10:54:54] <pingufan> Well, sounds you do it more commercial?
[10:55:42] <Gangsta> its a hobby, but its what pays for playing with this stuff
[10:57:02] <pingufan> I want to use it semi-commercial. For producing prototypes of electronic devices, but also for real hobby.
[10:58:22] <Gangsta> for pcb drilling or enclosures
[10:59:14] <pingufan> both. but more for the enclosures and cutting out the PCBs than milling the copper traces.
[11:00:14] <Gangsta> thats pretty much what I need to. The electronics isthe easy bit
[11:01:26] <pingufan> It is a Gravograph VX mill... http://www.google.at/imgres?imgurl=http://www.e-engraving.com/machines/gravograph/img/Gravograph_IS600_large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.e-engraving.com/machines/gravograph/Gravograph_IS600.htm&usg=__wv0cij8CHL0RvUvqQZ9EETJxfbw=&h=636&w=720&sz=85&hl=de&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=gLw-o0wEvydMPM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgravograph%2Bvx%2B600%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26tbs%3Disch:1
[11:01:50] <pingufan> But without the flat bed. I have to build it, too.
[11:02:17] <pingufan> And it is an older model as on the picture. No display...
[11:03:43] <Gangsta> hmm :( cantsee it on my phone. will look it up in the archive on my pc
[11:03:48] <pingufan> Ha, I found the right picture! http://www.ronamachines.co.uk/manage/gallery/tDSC01009.JPG
[11:05:32] <Gangsta> that looks like a nice machine
[11:05:42] <pingufan> I will remove the little bench vice , so I get more free height. Then I will fixate a flat bed there, with T-channels.
[11:06:33] <Gangsta> how long do you estimate to finish it
[11:06:38] <pingufan> Extremely heavy. ΓΈ30mm conducts
[11:06:48] <pingufan> Weight ~ 50kg
[11:07:17] <pingufan> guidance is the right word. And everything from casted iron. :)
[11:07:47] <Gangsta> thats pretty light for a cnc
[11:08:58] <Gangsta> brb
[11:09:02] <pingufan> Not when you have to carry it into the 3rd floor alone. Well, first the steppers must be working, then i order the flat bed. When this is done, I finally have to adapt the spindle, I need a collet chuck.
[11:12:07] <pingufan> All electronics is in the right drawer of the machine's chassis.
[11:12:52] <Valen> ours weighs ~300-400kg
[11:13:14] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells
[11:13:21] <Valen> the head by itself is 100kg
[11:14:21] <Valen> (100kg of shit but still)
[11:16:04] <pingufan> Sure. This is 20 times bigger than mine.
[11:17:02] <pingufan> Any idea where i can get as cheap as possible a spindle?
[11:18:02] <pingufan> The motor is on the rear side and uses a belt to rotate the spindle. I want to keep that. The spindle can be moved up/down without the weight of the motor.
[11:20:31] <pingufan> I think about replacing the whole spindle part by a new one. (Two bearings in a tube, a new spindle, plus parts from a normal mill (nut + chuck))
[12:25:00] <jthornton> what would be some possible uses for the blend component?
[12:29:15] <Jymmm> jthornton: Margaritas
[12:30:03] <Jymmm> jthornton: Oh, dry-rub, who da hell wants an inch of sugar?!
[13:36:16] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[13:58:23] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[14:41:59] <skunkworks> wow - looks like I can still get tachs for these ancient servos.
[14:43:59] <skunkworks> anyone want to guess on a price? I have not got the quote yet.
[14:44:17] <skunkworks> I am thinking $234
[14:44:43] <Jymmm> $419
[14:47:03] <skunkworks> looks lik http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/tach.JPG
[14:47:38] <Jymmm> rust and icky wires and all?
[14:50:05] <skunkworks> well - It is clean now. (old picture)
[14:50:26] <Jymmm> Oh, so for $419 you get the rust?
[14:51:56] <skunkworks> no - for $419 you get a shiny new one
[14:52:03] <skunkworks> or 234
[14:52:17] <Jymmm> =)
[14:52:55] <skunkworks> looks like this http://www.bobry.ch/pdf/callan/TGF_2030_Datenblatt.pdf
[15:35:38] <cradek> after seeing ichudov's $1600 resolvers I hate to guess
[15:36:37] <skunkworks> heh
[15:36:39] <cradek> if you have a high res encoder on it, I wouldn't bother with fixing a tach - just get some extra dac outputs. they're really pretty cheap.
[15:36:50] <skunkworks> yah - I know...
[15:37:10] <cradek> assuming you have a spare m5ixx plug I guess - that's what's expensive
[15:37:31] <skunkworks> yes - I have to buy the second servo interface yet....
[15:37:47] <skunkworks> I do have an extra plug that I planned to use for that.
[15:38:30] <skunkworks> the encoders are 2540 line - so I will have about 60960 counts per inch
[15:39:45] <skunkworks> 2540*4*2(belt reduction)*3(threads per inch)
[15:41:23] <cradek> that's a whole lotta resolution
[15:41:52] <cradek> slightly over twice as much as jr has, and it has a lot
[15:42:07] <cradek> you will get very good velocity output.
[15:43:03] <skunkworks> hmm - damn. ;)
[15:45:29] <ichudov> My AMC drives have several loop modes, one of which is a voltage mode, which does not require a tachometer. My motors do have tachs, so I use a tach mode, but I think that I could use voltage mode ot torque (current) mode just as well.
[15:46:51] <skunkworks> ichudov: tach mode will give you better perforance (following error) because you have 2 loops - an inside velocity loop and an outside position loop.
[15:47:36] <skunkworks> it work well - using just a position loop. (lots of people do it that way) but you get better control with 2 loops)
[15:48:17] <ichudov> That's why I decided to go with tach mode. But if I did not have tachs, I think that I would do well by just having a hi resolution encoder. Most industrial controls are this way nowadays, I was told.
[15:50:35] <skunkworks> cradek just setup one of his axis using the encoder velocity from the mesa encoder counter sent though an extra +/-10v output to his amps. Looks like that works very well - a virtual tach signal.
[15:54:07] <cradek> the thread about that: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/22006
[15:55:37] <cradek> scope pictures in the last message there
[15:56:57] <skunkworks> cradek: did you do anything with the minimum velocity setting (is that even a setting in the mesa encoder counter?)
[15:57:15] <cradek> I didn't do anything except hook up the one net
[15:57:20] <skunkworks> ok
[15:57:35] <cradek> (and set the scaling and set that dac to always be enabled)
[16:01:45] <Gangsta> does emc have a scripting language? i just dont get classic ladder
[16:03:05] <cradek> can you explain what you are trying to do?
[16:04:07] <Gangsta> all i want to do is turn on a relay, then when the binary pattern on 3 inputs is right turn off the relay
[16:05:12] <cradek> that does sound like a job for classic ladder to me, but you could also write a "comp" which is a way of making a custom hal component
[16:05:34] <Gangsta> i cant figure out how to connect hal pins to cl
[16:06:16] <skunkworks> do you have a soldering iron? LOL (I crack myself up...)
[16:06:32] <skunkworks> Gangsta: what have you tried?
[16:06:39] <cradek> CL is just a hal component - it has pins that you hook to other HAL components just like any other
[16:06:40] <Gangsta> lol
[16:07:39] <Gangsta> so i edit hal as txt? i went to stepconf wiz and clicked the edit ladder button
[16:08:39] <Gangsta> i guessed there would be some kind of option to import pins along with there names etc
[16:11:00] <cradek> yes I suggest you just edit the hal file after stepconf is done making you a framework
[16:12:02] <Gangsta> i will give it a try now
[16:22:41] <Gangsta> so inmy custom hal i add lines like...
[16:24:18] <Gangsta> net classicladder.0.in-00 <== parport.0.pin-10-in
[16:25:27] <alSMT> needs a name
[16:26:02] <Gangsta> can u give an example
[16:26:08] <alSMT> net mysig classicladder.0.in-00 <== parport.0.pin-10-in
[16:26:26] <Gangsta> ok ill try that
[16:34:50] <Gangsta> ok were getting somewhere now
[16:35:22] <skunkworks> yay!
[16:35:54] <Gangsta> i have a working ladder!
[16:36:19] <Gangsta> now u help me import the tool change pins
[16:36:28] <Gangsta> please
[16:36:46] <cradek> 11:01 < Gangsta> i just dont get classic ladder 11:35 < Gangsta> i have a working ladder!
[16:36:57] <Gangsta> haha
[16:37:20] <skunkworks> that is awesome
[16:37:36] <cradek> Gangsta: you probably want this information: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_emc2hal.html#r1_3
[16:37:47] <Gangsta> i understand the logic, just not the way of doing it. the docs need some work
[16:38:28] <Gangsta> i will look at that now. im on my phone so it may take a while
[16:38:29] <skunkworks> the classic ladder interface is.... clunky. But it works well when you get used to it.
[16:44:19] <Gangsta> iocontrol.0.tool-change was already linked
[16:45:45] <Gangsta> im trying net ToolReq classicladder.0.in-03 <= iocontrol.0.tool-change
[16:46:54] <cradek> you'll have to find where it was linked and unlink it
[16:47:12] <cradek> perhaps you have a tool change loopback, or you have the manual tool change program linked in
[16:47:51] <Gangsta> can I just removethe line from the stepconfhal its a loopback
[17:03:01] <IchGuckLive> hi all from germany
[17:03:29] <Gangsta> hi
[17:04:18] <micges> hi
[17:06:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm writing a gcode program to cut a contour on the side of a plate
[17:06:25] <ichudov> cradek: I sent you a change for ttt.c where the buffer is allocated based on the actual number of characters, what do you think, does it look better?
[17:06:49] <cradek> thanks but I have not had time to look at it yet
[17:06:50] <seb_kuzminsky> it seems to make sense to program the material contour, then use g41.1 dynamic cutter comp to do a couple of passes to get down to that contour
[17:07:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i've got a for-loop (well, a while loop that acts like a for loop) that over-estimates the cutter radius for the dynamic comp, and slowly lower the over-estimation on successive passes until the dynamic comp radius is equal to the cutter's real radius (for the finish pass)
[17:08:15] <seb_kuzminsky> seems easier than computing the roughing pass paths by hand
[17:08:27] <seb_kuzminsky> does this sound sensible? am i missing any gotchas here?
[17:09:03] <ichudov> ok for a convex part
[17:09:18] <cradek> whether it will work depends on the contour and exactly how much oversize you want the tool
[17:09:33] <cradek> right, if there are concave features smaller than the (oversize) tool it won't work
[17:10:30] <cradek> a rough pass with a .020 oversize diameter and then a finish path with true diameter is a time-honored technique...
[17:10:39] <seb_kuzminsky> the smallest concavity is a .750" radius inside corner, and i'm keeping my faked comp radius below that
[17:10:45] <seb_kuzminsky> the axis preview looks great :-)
[17:11:08] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: you mean rough with a .020 *undersize* cutter?
[17:11:40] <cradek> sorry I meant lie about the cutter diameter - tell emc it's bigger than it is
[17:12:01] <seb_kuzminsky> oh i see!
[17:12:07] <seb_kuzminsky> ok good i'll try it :-)
[17:12:46] <cradek> best results happen when you cut with slightly more than half the tool diameter - don't spend too many passes just barely cutting
[17:13:54] <seb_kuzminsky> ok. i'm feel 100% confident in my work holding, so i'm planning to cut .050 deep into about a 1" thick chunk of 7075 clamped to a fixture plate
[17:14:53] <cradek> only 1" thick? 3/4 roughing mill, lots of coolant, one pass :-)
[17:14:58] <seb_kuzminsky> i meant to say: "i dont feel 100% confident"
[17:15:07] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[17:15:09] <cradek> oh! that's different.
[17:15:28] <cradek> bbl, lunch
[17:15:38] <seb_kuzminsky> seeya cradek, and thanks again for your help :-)
[17:18:45] <IchGuckLive> seb_kuzminsky: is there adrawing so we can better anderstand your problem
[17:18:50] <IchGuckLive> ichudov?
[17:20:05] <IchGuckLive> ichudov: i did not find your subroutines for pocketing on the net?
[17:21:28] <Gangsta> back again
[17:21:49] <IchGuckLive> folks do you think this is good to be into the wiki i wrote that for speed testing and acuraty ->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VAYY63dwkA
[17:22:30] <IchGuckLive> it makes a nice grid or target
[17:22:40] <Gangsta> got my logic down, now just adding my actual tool change but gettinganerror
[17:22:55] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: Sure, I can see the usefulness of it.
[17:23:18] <Gangsta> classicladder.0.s32in-00 does not exist
[17:23:39] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: thanks
[17:24:13] <alSMT> classicladder.0.s32in-0 yep that doesn't exist
[17:25:17] <IchGuckLive> is there anyone master responseble for the wiki or is it a real community website
[17:25:37] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: no. anyone can edit it.
[17:25:49] <IchGuckLive> i now this
[17:25:50] <Gangsta> sorry i have 2 0's what am i missing
[17:25:58] <IchGuckLive> i did G12-13 and G150
[17:26:38] <alSMT> the period between 32 and in i believe
[17:28:53] <Gangsta> nope that didnt help
[17:29:11] <micges> Gangsta: put 'show all' before error line and see in terminal what are pins names
[17:29:16] <Gangsta> i have a pin called this inthe hal meter
[17:29:53] <ichudov> IchGuckLive: http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/_My-EMC-G-Code-Subroutines/
[17:30:21] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[17:33:36] <Gangsta> got it, seems the line i copied from the docs has a capital S in S32, hal likes s32 much better
[17:36:10] <ichudov> IchGuckLive: I post my subs there automatically and some are still untested, but most are tested.
[17:36:10] <skunkworks> Gangsta: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuRea6615s
[17:36:29] <IchGuckLive> ichudov: im gone test it now
[17:37:07] <ichudov> try e.g. deeplineargroove.ngc
[17:37:32] <ichudov> Also I recommend using ngcgui for running those subs. It is a nice GUI that asks for parameters in a nice form
[17:37:42] <Gangsta> cant watch it on my phone :(
[17:37:47] <ichudov> IchGuckLive:
[17:37:49] <ichudov> IchGuckLive: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/ngcgui/readme
[17:38:06] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[17:38:41] <IchGuckLive> ichudov: most users prefer strait scripts as they not used to work with milling mashines
[17:38:58] <IchGuckLive> example i sold 4 mashines today one to a hairdresser B)
[17:40:34] <ichudov> What, CNC hairdressing?
[17:45:07] <IchGuckLive> he wars the best castomer since month with big open eys seeing the mini mill with X-4inch Y2inches and Z 2iinches of movement
[17:46:35] <IchGuckLive> at 20inch/min speed
[17:49:07] <IchGuckLive> ichudov: most of these are only outlione generaters
[17:52:08] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: what are you making?
[18:04:28] <IchGuckLive> cradek: a heavy movement milling
[18:04:37] <IchGuckLive> on the side of a plate
[18:27:50] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: WELCOME TO TEXAS! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[18:29:07] <SWPLinux> yeah, thanks
[18:29:19] <Jymmm> hahaha
[18:29:34] <SWPLinux> so here's an annoying question
[18:29:40] <SWPLinux> or an annoying problem
[18:30:08] <SWPLinux> I've got a bash script that needs to run an external program with some arguments that have "special" characters in them
[18:30:27] <SWPLinux> like one argument should be "Some Words (and others)"
[18:30:34] <SWPLinux> with the quotes and parentheses
[18:30:45] <SWPLinux> but when the program is executed, it looks like this:
[18:30:46] <Jymmm> backslah em I believe
[18:30:53] <cradek> enclose it in single quotes
[18:30:54] <Jymmm> backslash
[18:31:09] <SWPLinux> neither of those seem to work
[18:31:16] <cradek> echo '"a(b)"'
[18:31:29] <cradek> sure it does
[18:31:31] <cradek> % echo '"a(b)"'
[18:31:31] <cradek> "a(b)"
[18:31:47] <SWPLinux> that's the annoying thing, echo `command args` works (except all the output is on one line)
[18:31:55] <SWPLinux> but just command args doesn't work
[18:32:29] <cradek> I don't follow what you're trying to say
[18:33:39] <cradek> maybe you should make the simplest possible script that shows the problem and put it on pastebin
[18:34:16] <SWPLinux> ok, I'll try that
[18:34:41] <SWPLinux> one complication is that the arguments are created from several things, so I can't just use literal strings for them
[18:35:17] <cradek> it's easy to lose quotes as stuff gets assigned around
[18:35:23] <SWPLinux> yeah
[18:35:47] <SWPLinux> what happens here is that everything that would need escaping is escaped by bash when executing the command
[18:35:53] <SWPLinux> so instead of this:
[18:36:07] <SWPLinux> command arg1 "big nasty (special characters"
[18:36:07] <cradek> if you're dealing with strings littered with shell-special characters there comes a time where the shell is the wrong approach
[18:36:12] <SWPLinux> it looks like this:
[18:36:37] <SWPLinux> command arg1 '"big' nasty '(special' 'characters'
[18:36:52] <SWPLinux> (I typoed that, there should have been a closing paren, but it doesn't matter)
[18:37:01] <cradek> I don't understand what you're saying there
[18:37:09] <cradek> maybe pastebin a simple example?
[18:37:20] <SWPLinux> if I can make one, I will
[18:48:26] <Gangsta> woot:) working atc. need to rearrange the ladder for neatness. but working. thanks guys
[18:50:34] <skunkworks> sweet!
[18:56:09] <SWPLinux> ok, I got it to work by letting the shell concatenate strings like so: command foo bar 'baz with some '$var' (stuff Bash would escape for me)'
[18:56:27] <SWPLinux> and since $var has no spaces, it ends up as a single argument
[19:57:29] <ichudov> L84Supper: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220653327013
[20:12:35] <tom3p> ichudov, seems to be this unit http://www.surplusrecord.com/listings8/697958.html and i think i see dc servos and linear scales
[20:33:38] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[21:17:07] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17mpgQ4KVLg
[21:22:19] <andypugh> Adaptive-mesh FE analysis?
[21:23:14] <skunkworks> neat!
[21:23:23] <archivist> wonderful
[21:23:44] <awallin> it's supposed to be a cutting simulation
[21:24:01] <awallin> not exactly real-time, about 1 FPS rendering speed the way I do it now :)
[21:24:43] <awallin> when the surface gets complex, most triangles are not updated when we move the cutter
[21:25:01] <awallin> so the new thing I now need is a data structure where I can update triangles on the fly
[21:25:15] <andypugh> I am just wondering what it is simulating? Just the geometry, or are you doing cutting-force calculations?
[21:25:16] <awallin> some triangles go away, some are new, when we move the cutter slightly
[21:25:28] <awallin> no forces in this one
[21:27:15] <awallin> integer IDs for the triangles, and store them in a std::map or something?
[21:27:19] <alex_joni> looks like replicators attacking the borg
[21:49:27] <andypugh> awallin: is a b-tree any use for your triangles? I am thinking you want something where deletions don't mean a reshuffle
[21:50:55] <awallin> in a big surface, there might be 100k triangles. I am guessing that maybe only 1-5k of those should be deleted, and replaced with 1-5k new ones, for each update step
[21:51:12] <awallin> and there are 10ks of these steps...
[21:51:26] <andypugh> awallin: I just noticed that an octree is a close relative of the b-tree. I'll shut up.
[21:52:11] <awallin> in the octree the information is pretty efficiently stored, but when triangles are extracted from the octree for drawing on screen they are all put into one big list
[21:52:28] <awallin> so it's more the rendering interface I need to work on than the simulation itself
[21:53:43] <awallin> * awallin sleep now...
[21:53:45] <andypugh> The triangles are triads of octree nodes?
[22:42:24] <JT-Hardinge> What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
[22:42:58] <alex_joni> european or african?
[22:44:11] <JT-Hardinge> I don't know that
[22:44:43] <JT-Hardinge> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...............
[22:44:50] <alex_joni> Although a definitive answer would of course require further measurements, published species-wide averages of wing length and body mass, initial Strouhal estimates based on those averages and cross-species comparisons, the Lund wind tunnel study of birds flying at a range of speeds, and revised Strouhal numbers based on that study all lead me to estimate that the average cruising airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow is roughly
[22:46:55] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: hey
[22:46:57] <alex_joni> that is assuming a body mass of 20g, a frequency of 18Hz, Amplitude of 18cm, wingspan 29cm
[22:47:14] <JT-Hardinge> hey Jymmm
[22:47:31] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: wth is this 1" of sugar crap?
[22:47:46] <JT-Hardinge> dunno you brought it up
[22:48:03] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: no, you did on some forum =)
[22:48:46] <JT-Hardinge> I was wondering what useful thing one might use the blend comp for so I could publish their wise sayings for the world to know...
[22:48:47] <alex_joni> hmm.. I had no idea there are 74 swallow species, and 47 of those are african..
[22:48:59] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: 3rd grade edjumakashun and all that.
[22:49:42] <JT-Hardinge> did I make it all the way to reading riting and rithmatic
[22:49:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni: they found a new species of monkey
[22:49:58] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: What's nuttin and nuttin?
[22:50:07] <JT-Hardinge> two
[22:50:12] <alex_joni> http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/images/swallow_st13.gif
[22:50:15] <Jymmm> you passed
[22:50:40] <cncmachineguy> do I have to have a network connection to upgrade emc?
[22:50:41] <JT-Hardinge> that will be $45 please
[22:50:58] <JT-Hardinge> what I thought you only charged $15 per hour
[22:51:00] <JT-Hardinge> I do
[22:51:25] <JT-Hardinge> you only worked from 12 till 2 that should be $30
[22:51:38] <JT-Hardinge> no, I worked 12, 1, 2 that is $45
[22:51:58] <JT-Hardinge> this is a real conversation I heard here
[22:52:17] <alex_joni> heh
[22:52:50] <JT-Hardinge> my buddy could not argue with an idiot so he paid him $45
[22:58:17] <alex_joni> he should have converted the $15/h to seconds, then make the idiot count how many seconds there are from 12 to 2
[22:58:45] <JT-Hardinge> he would have made out better
[23:00:08] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge fires up the Stihl chainsaw to chuck some wood as it is only 97F outside...
[23:13:09] <JT-Hardinge> out of breath
[23:13:14] <JT-Hardinge> in 13 minutes
[23:13:51] <JT-Hardinge> I guess that is what happens when you don't have a whole heart to pump the blood fast enough
[23:15:29] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Not enough THC
[23:15:30] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge goes inside to cool off,,,
[23:15:31] <JT-Hardinge> say goodnight Gracie
[23:15:40] <JT-Hardinge> yea, it is pretty small
[23:15:45] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Hasta
[23:15:46] <skunkworks> can someone give me the output of there lsb_release -a on lucid?
[23:16:01] <JT-Hardinge> 10.04?
[23:16:13] <skunkworks> yes
[23:16:24] <JT-Hardinge> let me go down to the beer cave and see besides it is cooler down there
[23:16:33] <skunkworks> heh
[23:19:41] <jthornton> No LSB modules are available.
[23:19:43] <jthornton> Distributor ID:Ubuntu
[23:19:45] <jthornton> Description:Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS
[23:19:46] <jthornton> Release:10.04
[23:19:47] <jthornton> Codename:lucid
[23:19:49] <jthornton> john@zotac:~$
[23:20:05] <jthornton> skunkworks: is that what you needed?
[23:20:33] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[23:20:36] <skunkworks> jthornton: could you see if you can open your system-> administration -> software sources.
[23:20:40] <skunkworks> yes - thank you
[23:21:03] <jthornton> ok, it is open
[23:21:09] <alex_joni> lsd_release
[23:21:52] <skunkworks> ok - thanks. Odd. I cannot open anything that controls the repositorys. (other than editing the list file directly)
[23:22:38] <jthornton> I had to install twice to get a good one the first one had some weird problems
[23:22:51] <skunkworks> I had found where someone had a screwed up lsb file. but mine looks the same as yours
[23:23:17] <skunkworks> not a big deal - I will keep looking
[23:23:52] <alex_joni> skunkworks: any errors?
[23:24:06] <alex_joni> try running synaptic from a terminal
[23:24:10] <skunkworks> no - just doesn't bring up the gui for it.
[23:24:19] <skunkworks> oh - good idea
[23:24:21] <jthornton> me? or skunkworks
[23:24:28] <skunkworks> me
[23:24:34] <alex_joni> jthornton: you can too if you like
[23:24:52] <alex_joni> or you'd better finish with the wood chucking
[23:25:03] <jthornton> I'm updating atm
[23:25:03] <alex_joni> and not WASTE time in here!
[23:25:24] <jthornton> I've changed into my "I'm not doing any more work today clothes"
[23:25:46] <skunkworks> Traceback (most recent call last):
[23:25:48] <skunkworks> File "/usr/bin/software-properties-gtk", line 44, in <module>
[23:25:50] <skunkworks> from softwareproperties.gtk.SoftwarePropertiesGtk import SoftwarePropertiesGtk
[23:25:52] <skunkworks> ImportError: No module named softwareproperties.gtk.SoftwarePropertiesGtk
[23:25:59] <jthornton> no wonder I didn't last long the heat index is 38C
[23:26:07] <skunkworks> have to do a search on that...
[23:28:15] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get update
[23:28:16] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get build-dep software-properties-gtk
[23:28:55] <alex_joni> hmm nope
[23:29:09] <jthornton> hmmm, 439 miles to Wichita from Poplar Bluff...
[23:29:12] <alex_joni> skunkworks: try installing software-properties-gtk
[23:31:30] <skunkworks> how would I do that - if I do a search for SoftwarePropertiesGtk I get nothing in synaptic
[23:31:34] <ichudov> I am setting up a brand new mini PC that I will use for ubuntu. I assembled it myself
[23:32:00] <skunkworks> found it :)
[23:32:44] <skunkworks> I did a re-install in synaptic - still the same.
[23:34:43] <alex_joni> sudo aptitude reinstall python-xkit python-software-properties
[23:35:45] <skunkworks> alex - you are the man!
[23:35:49] <skunkworks> Thank you!
[23:36:05] <skunkworks> where did you find/How did you know it was a python problem?
[23:38:56] <alex_joni> ImportError: is a python thingie
[23:38:58] <alex_joni> the rest is google
[23:38:59] <Valen> its a python erroe
[23:39:11] <alex_joni> yeah that
[23:39:14] <skunkworks> well - that is awesome
[23:39:22] <alex_joni> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1154424.html
[23:39:49] <alex_joni> now if I only could get 10.04 installed on my laptop :/
[23:40:00] <jthornton> alex_joni: is the psycho killer Qu'est-ce que c'est?
[23:40:14] <alex_joni> tried about 7-8 times..
[23:40:40] <alex_joni> jthornton: Je ne comprend pas..
[23:40:42] <jthornton> alex_joni: want to borrow my .44 magnum?
[23:40:56] <skunkworks> alex_joni: I have had issues with a computer with intel graphics.
[23:42:04] <skunkworks> there was a fix - I would have to find it. (intel grapics?)
[23:44:03] <alex_joni> nah, the LiveCD works great
[23:44:06] <alex_joni> everything works ok
[23:44:08] <skunkworks> oh
[23:44:17] <alex_joni> even the install is ok, until I have to reboot
[23:44:34] <alex_joni> and pesky grub can't read the drive..
[23:44:39] <skunkworks> yeck
[23:44:42] <alex_joni> tried grub2, grub1
[23:44:55] <alex_joni> all sorts of partition schemes I could come up with
[23:44:57] <skunkworks> have you found others with the issue?
[23:45:02] <alex_joni> not really
[23:45:12] <alex_joni> only some older bugreport on grub2
[23:45:13] <Valen> what error?
[23:45:44] <alex_joni> error: unknown filesystem
[23:45:49] <alex_joni> grub-rescue>
[23:46:04] <skunkworks> I had problems with this laptop stalling right before the ureadahead (or whatever it is) randomly. but I have not had that issue once since I installed the 64bit
[23:47:17] <alex_joni> Valen: chrooting into the hdd (from the livecd) and grub-test or whatever that's called works ok
[23:47:46] <Valen> what fs?
[23:47:57] <Valen> also installing grub to the mbr or a partition?
[23:48:29] <skunkworks> * skunkworks would boot from a windows98 cd and run fdisk /mbr.
[23:48:31] <skunkworks> ;)
[23:50:46] <alex_joni> Valen: mbr
[23:51:06] <Valen> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1Mb count=1 fixes alot of grub style problems
[23:51:15] <Valen> it'll wipe everything on the disk
[23:51:16] <alex_joni> sda1 = ntfs, sda2=swap, sda3={ext4,ext3,ext2)
[23:51:47] <alex_joni> tried ext4 first, then ext3, then ext2
[23:51:51] <alex_joni> no avail
[23:52:05] <Valen> you cant get to the grub menu?
[23:54:46] <Valen> how old is it? there are or were issues where grub could only look at the first X blocks of the disk
[23:55:36] <alex_joni> Valen: nope, only grub-rescue
[23:55:36] <alex_joni> and the only thing I can do there is 'ls'
[23:55:36] <alex_joni> which always brings the 'error: unknown filesystem'
[23:56:04] <alex_joni> it's a 3-year old laptop
[23:56:05] <Valen> i spose you need to keep the windows FS?
[23:56:09] <alex_joni> HP NW8440
[23:56:15] <alex_joni> yeah, work laptop
[23:56:17] <Valen> you can use ntldr to chain into grub
[23:56:41] <alex_joni> http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12449_div/12449_div.HTML
[23:56:49] <alex_joni> and put grub on sda3 ?
[23:56:56] <alex_joni> hmm.. that might work
[23:57:05] <alex_joni> I think the issue is that i have a 200G hdd in there
[23:57:15] <alex_joni> err.. 160G
[23:57:29] <Valen> probably has a hidden recovery partition as well
[23:58:43] <alex_joni> nah, I swapped out the original hdd
[23:59:05] <alex_joni> this one has only sda1 (150GB, ntfs) and the rest is/was free