#emc | Logs for 2010-08-17

[00:00:48] <salvarane> gentoo is a the normal distro as ubuntu
[00:01:30] <salvarane> the problem it's into ./configure file
[00:01:37] <JT-Hardinge> but not a LTS distro? like 8.04 or 10.04?
[00:02:06] <salvarane> yes gentoo is LTS
[00:02:18] <salvarane> I compile HeeksCAD
[00:02:39] <salvarane> without problem
[00:02:39] <JT-Hardinge> so it is not Ubuntu...
[00:02:52] <salvarane> is gentoo
[00:03:00] <salvarane> 64 bit
[00:03:05] <morfic> gentoo and LTS do not go in the same sentence
[00:03:23] <JT-Hardinge> I don't have a clue then, sorry that is beyond my guesspertice
[00:03:30] <salvarane> gentoo is like Linux from scratch
[00:03:47] <morfic> gentoo is a source based distribution, there are no releases, there is stable/unstable and the packages for both are always progressing
[00:04:04] <morfic> it is much unlike a long term support release of ubuntu
[00:04:39] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:04:56] <salvarane> but the subsistem , compilers and libraries is equals
[00:05:00] <morfic> it being source based can be beneficial when building other packages from source, anything you have installed, you have a the -dev version of
[00:05:12] <JT-Hardinge> I c
[00:05:32] <SWPadnos> salvarane, are you running the RT kernel you expect to use for EMC2?
[00:05:39] <salvarane> yes my system is compiled from sources
[00:05:43] <salvarane> yes
[00:05:46] <SWPadnos> that wasn't the question
[00:05:49] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:06:05] <salvarane> Linux localhost 2.6.34-magma #2 SMP PREEMPT Mon Aug 16 20:48:48 CEST 2010 x86_64 AMD Turion(tm) 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-56 AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[00:06:41] <morfic> salvarane: the build instructions on the wiki should work, and once you build the RT kernel, the rest builds rather easy on gentoo too
[00:06:45] <SWPadnos> and there's a kernel header directory called /usr/src/Linux-2.6.34-magma ?
[00:06:58] <SWPadnos> err, that's linux, not Linux
[00:07:06] <salvarane> not is possible configure emc-dev with command ./confiugre
[00:07:16] <salvarane> the proble is
[00:07:55] <salvarane> checking for kernel version string... configure: error: Kernel version string not found
[00:08:14] <SWPadnos> the error probably means that the configure script can't find the kernel headers
[00:08:30] <SWPadnos> since that's where the kernel version string is defined
[00:08:41] <SWPadnos> (or in one of the kernel makefiles, I don't remember)
[00:09:49] <salvarane> I pastebin wait please
[00:10:33] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge heads inside now that at least three people here knows who Mr Gen Too is :)
[00:10:43] <JT-Hardinge> say goodnight Gracie
[00:11:25] <salvarane> ./configure --with-realtime=/usr/realtime --prefix=/usr/local --with-kernel-headers=/usr/src/linux-2.6.34/include
[00:11:36] <SWPadnos> ok, the option is --with-kernel-headers
[00:12:08] <SWPadnos> leave the include out
[00:12:14] <salvarane> http://pastebin.com/X6Eh8RZ9
[00:12:17] <SWPadnos> just /usr/src/linux-2.6.34
[00:12:28] <salvarane> ok I prove
[00:12:36] <SWPadnos> assuming that's where the RTAI/IPIPE patched kernel headers are
[00:12:51] <salvarane> paste .config
[00:13:01] <SWPadnos> see line 35: checking for /usr/src/linux-2.6.34/include/include/linux/version.h... no
[00:13:06] <SWPadnos> the extra include is there
[00:14:43] <salvarane> ok I see
[00:15:12] <salvarane> this file not exist /usr/src/linux-2.6.34/include/include/linux/version.h
[00:15:46] <SWPadnos> right, because you shouldn't have include as part of the --with-kernel-headers option
[00:16:32] <salvarane> I changed in this ./configure --with-realtime=/usr/realtime --prefix=/usr/local --with-kernel-headers=/usr/src/linux-2.6.34
[00:17:21] <salvarane> but the error remain
[00:17:34] <SWPadnos> delete config.cache and try again
[00:17:39] <salvarane> the .config file http://pastebin.com/Bi5VVms1
[00:17:43] <SWPadnos> (I think that's the name)
[00:17:44] <salvarane> ok
[00:18:08] <SWPadnos> oh, config.status
[00:18:36] <salvarane> ok
[00:18:56] <salvarane> not is present
[00:19:02] <salvarane> config.status
[00:20:16] <salvarane> into .configure file is present the string CONFIG_IPIPE=y
[00:20:38] <salvarane> and all tests realtime it's ok
[00:21:14] <SWPadnos> the .config is fine
[00:21:29] <SWPadnos> (probably - I didn't inspect it too closely)
[00:22:57] <salvarane> could you pass the source archive emc2 v 2.4 to me pleace
[00:24:22] <salvarane> the two options not is set
[00:24:33] <salvarane> # CONFIG_IPIPE_DELAYED_ATOMICSW is not set
[00:24:40] <salvarane> # CONFIG_IPIPE_UNMASKED_CONTEXT_SWITCH is not set
[00:25:06] <SWPadnos> I don't understand what you're asking
[00:26:58] <salvarane> I must set a true
[00:27:18] <salvarane> or not
[00:27:40] <SWPadnos> no idea, but that doesn't affect the configure error
[00:28:05] <salvarane> ok , thanks
[00:32:44] <salvarane> I try change the flag version into kernel-2.6.34 from magma to -rtai-vulcano
[00:33:42] <SWPadnos> I don't think it matters what you call it
[00:35:14] <salvarane> the problem is the script configure
[00:35:18] <owhite> hello people. Is there a way to use variables in gcode? What I'd like to do is specify something like FEEDRATE = 20 at the top of my gcode, and commands that specify moves would use that variable. As in G01 X1 Y1 FEEDRATE.
[00:36:49] <SWPadnos> #<feedrate>=20
[00:36:56] <salvarane> this option into kernel is disable " enable deprecated sysfs features to support old userspace tools "
[00:37:41] <owhite> SWPadnos: and what would the G01 call look like?
[00:37:57] <SWPadnos> G1 X1 Y1 F#<feedrate>
[00:38:16] <SWPadnos> it's in the gcode manual under "parameters" and "named parameters"
[00:38:32] <ds2> sed is your friend, use it ;)
[00:38:35] <SWPadnos> if you want to run at half speed, you'd use F[#<feedrate>/2]
[00:38:51] <owhite> thank you. I was waiting for you to point me to the docs. I looked, I promise :-)
[00:40:02] <SWPadnos> I don't believe you :)
[00:40:46] <owhite> SWPadnos: think of it this way. If I was able to find everything in the docs, then I'd never visit. :-)
[00:41:10] <SWPadnos> what a wonderful world ...
[00:41:16] <SWPadnos> oh sorry, I was dreaming again
[00:43:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: USE THE SOURCE LUKE!
[00:44:17] <SWPadnos> hold on, let me search my feelings for a moment
[00:44:21] <SWPadnos> FORCE PUSH!
[00:44:29] <owhite> well great. It works. Thanks SW.
[00:44:35] <SWPadnos> sure
[00:44:57] <owhite> One other comment. Do any of you guys use synergy? It is so cool. It allows you to move your cursor from one screen to another.
[00:45:23] <Jymmm> owhite: No, that's Synergy2
[00:45:39] <owhite> So in my case I have my keyboard running off of my linux/EMC computer, but I can swing the cursor over to my windows laptop that does the CAD.
[00:45:48] <Jymmm> It's a virtual KVM switch
[00:45:57] <owhite> Yeah in fact I've been using synergy-plus.
[00:46:06] <owhite> Its really great though. I gotta say.
[00:46:22] <Jymmm> Sure, if you have a secure LAN
[00:46:45] <owhite> yep.
[00:47:11] <skunkworks> owhite: ! how is the laser?
[00:48:15] <owhite> it is working really well. I bought new optics and its cutting thicker metal. I overhauled a lot of my software so there's much smoother transfer of files between my CAD system and EMC. I built a plugin into EMC that makes a call to toolpath finding software.
[00:48:36] <owhite> And revamped my web site: http://nilno.com
[00:49:21] <owhite> I should say I built a plugin in _axis_, not emc.
[00:52:30] <skunkworks> neat
[00:54:51] <Jymmm> Cool, I can cut this much metal with my laser:
[00:55:03] <owhite> ?
[00:55:40] <Jymmm> owhite: (zilch, zero, nada, nuttin, zip)
[00:55:47] <owhite> heh.
[00:56:38] <owhite> mine is only 250watts. That's like little baby compared to the real industrial jobs in the 5kw range.
[00:56:56] <owhite> Okay people thanks for everything.
[01:17:02] <KimK> Working on the BP2 errors now, with debug level back to 0. Still getting that error: "/usr/bin/emc: line 654: 28271 Segmentation fault $EMCDISPLAY -ini "$INIFILE" $EMCDISPLAYARGS $EXTRA_ARGS". Error window available at http://pastebin.ca/1918536 Any advice appreciated.
[01:19:09] <KimK> Do you think this one could also be having that "lacpi" problem? This PC is at least a little newer (P4) and has more memory (512MB).
[02:39:11] <cradek> did lapic fix that other one?
[02:39:55] <cradek> this one says segfault in ... libGL.so, implying you've got an opengl problem of some kind. does glxgears run?
[02:54:47] <KimK> I don't know, I could never get lapic to go in and stay in, so I could never be sure of any results. But it only has 256MB of RAM, and that may be an issue too. I tried to reinstall from the new CD, but it stalls on step 4 (partitioning). Also I don't get the startup menu ("test this disk"), don't know if it's there or not, this is the first one I've tried. The correct answer may be to re-install 8.04.
[02:55:21] <KimK> On the BP2, you are right, glxgears doesn't run, "segmentation fault".
[02:57:06] <cradek> can you borrow some ram for the 256 to install? I bet that's not enough to run the live cd. to get the startup menu you have to hit escape (?) when it shows the "keyboard equals little man" thing at the bottom of the screen.
[02:57:12] <Valen> KimK: using an ATI card?
[02:59:50] <KimK> OK, I'll try it once more. I was hoping to get to some startup options where I could say, text-only, low-memory, or something like that. I don't know about the RAM, let me google the thing and see what it can use.
[03:00:14] <cradek> it's probably PC133
[03:00:55] <cradek> I insist you can get lapic to stick, and probably your current install will work. if you want more specific help, we can figure it out.
[03:01:13] <KimK> Valen: I don't know, it's an old Dell Dimension (4100?), I think just whatever graphics originally came on the motherboard.
[03:01:27] <Valen> lspci should tell you
[03:01:28] <KimK> OK, sure, let's try.
[03:01:45] <cradek> pastebin your menu.lst?
[03:02:23] <KimK> OK. (I'll move to the other PC now that the desk is empty.)
[03:09:34] <KimK> Finally: http://www.pastebin.ca/1918610
[03:10:50] <cradek> ok I think you should add six characters to the end of line 85: a space, then lapic
[03:11:01] <cradek> don't change anything else
[03:11:30] <cradek> then save the file, and back at the shell, run update-grub
[03:12:17] <KimK> OK, will do. Also, earlier I ran "grub-install -v" and got "grub-install (GNU GRUB 0.97)". FWIW.
[03:13:48] <KimK> Oh, and should I do this by a sudo edit or let the grub boot-time editor handle it?
[03:14:03] <cradek> sudo edit after booting
[03:14:08] <KimK> OK.
[03:14:10] <cradek> pretty sure you can't do it at the boot-time editor
[03:14:22] <KimK> hit "e" to edit?
[03:14:40] <cradek> yes you can edit options for that one boot that way
[03:14:55] <cradek> it's like a recovery mode if you have something messed up
[03:15:07] <cradek> but that won't change this file
[03:15:48] <KimK> OK, so I'm doing a sudo edit...
[03:17:14] <Valen> you running 10.04 or what?
[03:18:33] <cradek> he updated from 8 to 10 without a reinstall
[03:18:36] <cradek> via apt
[03:20:51] <Jymmm> What would be the best method to drill a LOT of .1155" holes into masonite? I'm trying to prevent the "buldging" that can happen when breaking thru the backside if the material.
[03:21:09] <Jymmm> s/if/of/
[03:21:09] <Valen> back it with something like say mdf
[03:21:22] <Valen> like clamp the both of them togther
[03:21:30] <cradek> yep must have backer
[03:21:46] <Jymmm> Ok, and the tool? Mill? drill?
[03:21:48] <Valen> mdf do for masonite you think?
[03:21:56] <cradek> your .0001" tolerance of hole size in masonite is funny :-)
[03:21:57] <KimK> I didn't have the 2nd ISO yet (do now) and I found out that you can go directly from one LTS to the next LTS in one step, instead of three. So I said what the heck, let's try it.
[03:22:24] <Valen> emc on 10.04 is very beta is my understanding?
[03:22:40] <Jymmm> ok, say .116"
[03:22:48] <cradek> still pretty new, but it works for me
[03:23:04] <Jymmm> The pins are .1150
[03:23:14] <Valen> I was just asking because 10.04 uses grub2, which needs the update grub, 8.04 is using grub 1 which doesn't need it ;->
[03:23:26] <Valen> cradek: there any emc 10.04 isos?
[03:23:50] <cradek> grub 1 done the debian way with automagic kernel lists does require a run of update-grub
[03:25:34] <KimK> OK, you're right, lapic stuck this reboot, but I forgot to say update-grub, shall I reboot again? Will lapic still stick? (Sorry I forgot)
[03:25:38] <Valen> ahh yeah if you do it that way
[03:25:49] <cradek> yes update-grub and then reboot
[03:25:54] <KimK> OK, brb
[03:25:58] <Valen> i usually just edit the running kernel line ;->
[03:40:10] <KimK> OK, grub-update done, rebooted, lapic still sticking, tried emc2 (axis_9axis sim), got as far as "tool change window", never saw AXIS, got these errors: http://www.pastebin.ca/1918624
[03:40:33] <morfic> i guess now where i built rtai, i should go and check latencies on this
[03:41:44] <cradek> #
[03:41:46] <cradek> INIFILE=/home/john/emc2/configs/sim/axis_9axis.ini
[03:41:55] <cradek> this is a 2.3 config you haven't updated for 2.4
[03:42:38] <cradek> or you could just remove the whole ~/emc2/configs/sim directory and start fresh
[03:43:01] <KimK> What, I didn't block the nml file?
[03:43:10] <KimK> OK, I'll look at it. '
[03:50:54] <KimK> OK, an unblocked NML file, and geometry=XYZBCUVW (missing A) were fouling it up, now it starts, thanks! (And for the lapic trick, too.) Want to try for two-for-two? What do you think about the bad glxgears on the BP2?
[03:51:08] <cradek> yay
[03:51:38] <KimK> Maybe you'd like a run-it-and-pastebin?
[03:51:40] <cradek> sorry, but I need to go to bed. if you have the live cd, you could boot it on the bp2, and see if emc and/or glxgears runs
[03:52:11] <cradek> if they work, it's at least somewhat likely that a reinstall will fix your problem - whatever it is
[03:52:30] <cradek> back up your configuration directory of course
[03:52:42] <KimK> Ha, OK. I should quit too. Thanks for your help! (And it will be here tomorrow, I suppose, lol) OK, I'll keep at it just a little longer.
[03:53:27] <cradek> the GL problem is a hard one to guess on...
[03:53:50] <cradek> ok, goodnight
[03:55:53] <KimK> goodnight, thanks again
[03:58:39] <Valen> how bad is the glxgears?
[03:58:48] <Valen> cya
[04:05:48] <morfic> SWPadnos: UTS stuff is now in include/generated not include/linux with the 2.6.34-magma the emc2 configure script fails
[04:06:16] <morfic> if pastebin ever gives me any love i can even show you :P
[04:07:14] <morfic> SWPadnos: http://pastebin.com/7NafMqcH
[04:08:24] <morfic> so even with a rtai kernel built, if newer, the problem will keep on showing up, proper /usr/src/linux link or not, it's not gentoo specific, maybe gentoo users tend to grab for "latest" more than others though ;)
[04:33:06] <penguin> hi asleep dudes
[04:33:39] <penguin> quick question... emc2 works fine in newer versions of ubuntu? (>8.04)
[04:39:17] <elmo40> didn't wait for a quick reply... he even stated that everyone was asleep :P
[04:39:31] <elmo40> impatience is not a virtue.
[04:42:13] <morfic> always fun
[04:42:42] <morfic> joining at a late hour, asking a question, and waiting a full 3minutes before quitting
[04:44:24] <morfic> let's try building emc2 again
[04:49:37] <Birdman3131> Birdman3131 is now known as birdman3131|zzzz
[04:54:18] <morfic> Documentation/PCI/pci.txt:pci_find_device() Superseded by pci_get_device() <-- might be why motenc bombs for me -> /home/morfic/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_motenc.c:294: error: implicit declaration of function 'pci_find_device'
[05:07:28] <morfic> i guess with 3 cores, rtai still wants me to configure it with 4? i guess i know in a little bit
[05:13:45] <elmo40> anyone in need of a manual? http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/
[05:13:58] <elmo40> why would you buy 3?
[05:14:00] <elmo40> so odd...
[05:14:52] <morfic> buy 3 what? cores? i bought 2, use the 3rd for free, 4th did not come online
[05:21:05] <foxtrot> elmo40, EMC2 AXIS seems to be printing perfectly in foam
[05:21:23] <foxtrot> i wish i could control the font/text somehow tho
[05:22:35] <elmo40> so you got the ratios all setup nicely? 1" is no longer 0.940"? ;)
[05:24:21] <morfic> so wicked, i tell elmo40 i bought 2 cores but run 3, and on reboot, one core tries to hide
[05:24:41] <foxtrot> yep it seems to be dead on
[05:24:45] <elmo40> better get a net out.
[05:24:45] <Valen> quad cores are the shiz
[05:24:53] <elmo40> i5 here :)
[05:25:59] <Valen> old school q6600 for my quad core
[05:26:07] <Valen> though my desktop is a dual core atom atm
[05:26:26] <foxtrot> im using a p3 800 laptop
[05:26:33] <morfic> Valen: i want a thuban core quad, and see if i can fetch me a free fifth and/or sixth
[05:26:41] <foxtrot> EMC box is a 3.2ghz P4
[05:27:16] <Valen> I just replaced dads other halfs celeron 500 with 192mb ram, running windows XP, AVG 9 and windows defender
[05:27:22] <Valen> took 20 minutes to boot lol
[05:30:42] <Valen> 3rd attempt to install windows on the replacement GRR
[05:30:55] <Jymmm> ?
[05:31:07] <Jymmm> install more ram
[05:34:51] <morfic> build kernel, build rtai, rebuild emc
[05:42:15] <elmo40> again?
[07:42:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Hey, can you think of a thin rigid material that's somewhat cheap?
[07:42:42] <Jymmm> non metalic
[07:43:39] <Valen> plastic!
[07:44:03] <awallin> wood
[07:44:11] <Jymmm> Most thin plastic isn't rigid.
[07:44:29] <Jymmm> I'm talking like firberglass rigid
[07:44:53] <Jymmm> almost brittle in nature
[07:45:21] <Valen> fiberglass?
[07:45:30] <Valen> (as in use the stuff)
[07:45:43] <Jymmm> not thin enough
[07:45:49] <Jymmm> and expensive
[07:46:04] <Jymmm> well, maybe thing enough, but not cheap
[07:46:07] <Jymmm> thin
[07:46:21] <Valen> PCB
[07:46:31] <Jymmm> non metalic
[07:46:46] <Valen> yeah PCB
[07:46:51] <Valen> or garolite
[07:46:57] <Valen> which is pcb, without the copper
[07:47:22] <Jymmm> $$$
[07:48:38] <Valen> if you say so
[08:04:06] <alex_joni> Jymmm: glass?
[08:04:47] <alex_joni> superglue impregnated cardboard :D
[08:07:51] <Valen> I made a gasket out of cardboard and candlewax once
[08:07:57] <Valen> intake side ;->
[10:11:25] <morfic> would be nice to have some time to build emc from work, figure out what i biult outof sequence to get undefined symbols in rtapi :)
[10:37:12] <micges_work1> morfic: undefined symbols in rtapi don't depend of compile sequence
[10:37:57] <Valen> rtapi is patches on the kernel innit? you generally compile the kernel in one go unless you are trying to do individual modules or some such
[11:47:03] <IchGuckLive> hi from rainy germany
[11:47:18] <IchGuckLive> someone ever workt with a fagor control ?
[12:24:41] <i_tarzan> manual machine tool here
[12:53:03] <elmo40> Jymmm: what do you need this 'thin non-metallic rigid' material for?
[13:24:55] <MattyMatt> jymmm, mica sheet from dead toaster
[13:28:12] <piasdom> hi
[13:30:40] <piasdom> why do i get "straight feed in concave corner cannot be reach by the tool without gouging" from this; http://pastebin.org/568126
[13:31:02] <Valen> the radius if the cut is smaller than the tool
[13:31:12] <piasdom> i tried to get a good leadin but not sure what g41g42 ask for
[13:31:42] <piasdom> it a 14" endmill cutting a 1/4" rad
[13:32:09] <Valen> then its equal, try it with a less than type thing
[13:32:16] <Valen> ie < 1/4
[13:32:29] <Valen> should only need a little but
[13:32:30] <Valen> bit
[13:32:36] <piasdom> change the tool or radius ?
[13:32:44] <Valen> either
[13:32:51] <piasdom> cool thanks
[13:32:56] <Valen> raidus bigger or tool smaller
[13:33:03] <piasdom> yea
[13:33:17] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_tool_compensation.html#sec:Cutter-Radius-Compensation
[13:33:24] <Valen> i havent looked at your code yet do don't quote me on that fixing it
[13:33:45] <birdman3131|zzzz> birdman3131|zzzz is now known as Birdman3131
[13:36:20] <piasdom> JT-Work: thanks....been looking for that
[13:36:26] <JT-Work> np
[13:40:27] <piasdom> can i use g41g42 with g2g3 ?
[13:41:25] <Valen> yes
[13:41:26] <JT-Work> yes
[13:41:31] <Valen> jinx!
[13:41:44] <Valen> </schoolkid> ;-P
[14:36:15] <skunkworks> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/two-machines-209340/
[14:39:09] <cradek> "In my experience corporate sponsorship is essential to bring order to prevaling chaos in the world"
[14:39:21] <skunkworks> heh
[14:39:47] <cradek> wowie
[14:39:57] <JT-Work> lol
[14:40:24] <cradek> and after that, the next guy has statistics he'll share with you if you're interested
[14:40:29] <cradek> wtf?
[14:40:33] <cradek> skunkworks: you're a saint, btw
[14:40:42] <skunkworks> I think I also missed the point of him wondering how many 'maho's where converted.... Like it has to be machines of that type converted before he beleives that emc will work for it.
[14:41:30] <skunkworks> cradek: I think I have mellowed. (kill em with kindness) ;)
[14:41:56] <cradek> it sure is true that not everyone can successfully complete a retrofit
[14:42:09] <cradek> many more people know how to write a check than know how to retrofit a cnc machine
[14:42:14] <skunkworks> right.
[14:42:38] <skunkworks> I have read many thread where someone did write the check and things are still not working :)
[14:44:11] <cradek> I have seen many people on the mailing list and forum who I think are just not smart enough to understand everything needed to get a working machine. for some of them I have been right, for at least one I have been wrong.
[14:44:28] <skunkworks> heh
[14:45:07] <cradek> JHOLLAND1 and Martin P both *want* to not be smart enough - they have no interest in learning what's required - they will not be successful
[14:45:30] <cradek> often one gets what one wants in this way
[14:46:53] <skunkworks> right. - or you have the ones that just assume someone will help them from start to finish. (we have had some on here) (usually we send them to jmk...) ;)
[14:47:03] <cradek> haha
[14:47:39] <cradek> a few minutes spent on youtube (with the confirmation bias knob turned way down) would give these guys a different picture about what can be done with emc
[14:47:52] <cradek> oh well :-P
[14:47:56] <cradek> "wfm"
[14:49:17] <Srpski> Srpski is now known as Dannyboy
[15:13:39] <pcw_home> skunkworks: robh's superslant videos are really impressive as well
[15:18:22] <skunkworks> yes - didn't I post a few?
[15:18:34] <skunkworks> Hi peter!
[15:19:01] <pcw_home> Hi SW
[15:26:00] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swulPjzzRQA
[15:26:03] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S1NIhwCzB0&feature=related
[15:26:04] <pcw_home> These are the ones I was thinking of
[15:35:01] <jepler-> jepler- is now known as jepler
[15:36:53] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Mica is an idea, but doens't it flake apart?
[15:37:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Never seen any 1/16th "
[15:37:59] <pcw_home> Asbestos!
[15:52:44] <pcw_home> skunkworks: another lathe retrofit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_V48-2cbiE&feature=channel
[15:53:41] <cradek> that's quite a turret
[15:55:26] <pcw_home> 14? tools
[15:57:10] <elmo40> looks like it
[15:58:45] <cradek> I can't read german but I bet one of the comments says "tool length offsets are important" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1kUCb9avw
[15:59:50] <cradek> (and wow that's a fast machine)
[16:04:08] <pcw_home> Ouch, it was going well till he changed tools (was that supposed to ge on top of the block?)
[16:04:17] <pcw_home> (be)
[16:04:41] <cradek> yes I think so
[16:05:13] <cradek> and yeah, seems like the machine stopped (following error?) but then the operator did a wrong jog or tool change or something
[16:06:17] <elmo40> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4LohuMTdfo
[16:07:48] <elmo40> cradek: that german video, looks like the tool is only taking off 0.030" at a time
[16:08:22] <elmo40> I think a 4" face mill could have done that in one pass ;)
[16:08:49] <IchGuckLive> B)
[16:09:50] <IchGuckLive> elmo40: one pass is no fun keep the mashine running as long as the headsink is not burning :DD
[16:11:51] <elmo40> IchGuckLive: my work is (finally) starting to look at run times. we have so many programs that go for 4-8hrs that I know if I reprogrammed them they would be less then 2hrs.
[16:12:57] <IchGuckLive> thats what i do for business optimising all the parameters if the part item numbers grow over 5000
[16:13:23] <IchGuckLive> most parts are in the 20tousends
[16:15:46] <elmo40> what is .at? Austria? http://www.cnc-ready.at/
[16:16:28] <IchGuckLive> yes
[16:16:40] <pcw_home> elmo40but a 4" face mill is probably more expensive to break... :-)
[16:17:20] <IchGuckLive> elmo40: there are alot here in the area that build mini cnc routers for selliing
[16:17:23] <alex_joni> elmo40: yes
[16:17:47] <elmo40> pcw_home: then don't break it!
[16:17:55] <elmo40> ;)_
[16:20:16] <IchGuckLive> use a 7-9 carbit one
[16:21:01] <IchGuckLive> with 850U/min 3mm depth and 500mm/min this will cut your problem
[16:22:24] <tom3p> i was using a joystick for analog input. hal sees it as -1.0 to 1.0 position, or 0 to 255 counts.
[16:22:25] <tom3p> other linux tools see it as S16. what is the native data? is what i see in hal always scaled?
[16:23:41] <IchGuckLive> nativ data is a rect sin
[16:25:31] <tom3p> for a potentiometer?
[16:26:03] <tom3p> whats is reported is data over usb
[16:28:05] <skunkworks> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/two-machines-209340/
[16:28:41] <tom3p> ah __s16 value;/* value */ from linux/joystick.h ( none of the above :/
[16:52:37] <salvarane> hello
[16:57:57] <IchGuckLive> salvarane: hello
[16:58:07] <IchGuckLive> what happend to your switches
[17:17:41] <salvarane> sorry mr. <IchGuckLive> I have to compile a new kernel 2.6.34 for 64bit machine patched with this hal-linux-2.6.34-x86-2.6-03.patch patch, I should reboot the system for testing the correct configuration
[17:18:11] <salvarane> now reboot
[18:05:44] <salvarane> I run the scriopt ./configure into emc2, but I receved this output "checking for kernel version string... configure: error: Kernel version string not found"
[18:33:32] <salvarane> I test this flag "Automatically append version information to the version string" enabled into kernel sources, I hope that the problem "checking for kernel version string... configure: error: Kernel version string not found" disappear
[18:41:40] <skunkworks> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/two-machines-209340/
[18:54:43] <alSMT> skunkworks: nice post you too JT
[18:58:20] <cradek> huh, bill must have added a few new pictures to the end of http://geektrap.com/bill/01248711886 because those are quite recent
[18:59:30] <salvarane> I read that emc2 if compiled with kernel type "redhat mandrake" suffer of string version recognize
[19:00:58] <alSMT> cradek: do you run a phase converter?
[19:01:09] <cradek> yes
[19:01:41] <alSMT> and about how many amps does that machine use?
[19:02:28] <salvarane> I download vanilia kernel-2.6.34 from portage into gentoo amd64, I think that portage apply some patch on sources, I attempt download a new kernel vanilia from kernel.org and recompile all
[19:06:00] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[19:09:46] <cradek> ichudov: about your last messsage: we have (system,shell command here) magic comments. if you could modify tracer to write a file you could later subsequently with O-call, maybe you could have what you want
[19:11:11] <cradek> alSMT: I think the main breaker is 75. I have it on a 40 circuit I think.
[19:12:09] <cradek> the spindle is 5hp. I doubt I ever use more than 2-3. The phase converter is an 8hp motor.
[19:12:40] <cradek> I feel a little lucky that I haven't had any power problems.
[19:14:00] <alSMT> diy converter
[19:22:10] <ichudov> cradek: i was writing a post to practical machinist. I will try to read about this (system, shell command)
[19:22:26] <ichudov> I would really love to use TTT insude G code instead of generating filesd and hand editing
[19:23:11] <ichudov> cradek: I am writing a perl script to make output of TTT a little more flexible
[19:23:17] <ichudov> I will share it once done
[19:25:24] <cradek> ichudov: I think it would be better to modify TTT instead of postprocessing its output
[19:26:20] <cradek> it is an intersting idea to use (system,...) and O-call together (...if that works)
[19:26:22] <cradek> I did not try it
[19:26:49] <ichudov> cradek: I just thought that it would be "killer app"
[19:27:05] <ichudov> For making stuff like panels, etc it will make it trivial
[19:34:11] <ichudov> I can try to modify TTT if you want.
[19:35:54] <cradek> I would be happy to review a patch that makes TTT output something suitable for calling with O-call instead of a complete program ending in M2
[19:39:14] <ichudov> Great
[19:39:25] <ichudov> I will let you know.
[19:42:09] <cradek> cool. be sure you start with 4.0 because it's very different from earlier.
[19:46:09] <alex_chally> alSMT, I ran a DIY rotary phase converter for a while. They work well, just make sure you have a large enough one.
[19:46:10] <ichudov> yes
[19:46:43] <ichudov> alex_chally: also make sure that the phase converter is "balanced", otherwise different legs may have very different voltages, and act differently under power.
[19:47:33] <alex_chally> yeah, I used a couple of capacitors on mine
[19:47:45] <alex_chally> and a start cap so I did not have to use a cord to start it
[19:50:07] <ichudov> alex_chally: are your caps on both L1-L3 as well as on L2-L3?
[19:52:02] <alex_chally> ichudov, I believe so, although I took it apart a while ago when I got a VFD
[19:52:20] <ichudov> that's good. I have a momemade RPC also. It actually has two idlers, and is very balanced
[19:52:26] <ichudov> momemade -> homemade
[19:52:42] <alex_chally> ichudov, iirc when I measured the voltage they were the same to within a couple V
[19:52:52] <salvarane> I have resolved the problem "checking for kernel version string... configure: error: Kernel version string not found" changing the variable KERNEL_VER from KERNEL_VERS=`gcc -E -dM /usr/src/linux-2.6.34/include/linux/version.h | grep UTS | cut -d '"' -f 2` to KERNEL_VERS="2.6.34-rtai-vulcano" and create the link asm --> asm-generic into /usr/src/linux/include
[19:52:53] <alex_chally> it worked well, was stable
[19:52:57] <alex_chally> although not quite big enough
[19:53:09] <alex_chally> 2hp rotary with a 1.75hp spindle
[19:53:30] <alex_chally> it did not like starting the spindle cold in the highest gear
[19:53:34] <ichudov> Mine is within 3-4 volts
[19:53:44] <alex_chally> once everything was warm and moving it could do it fine
[19:53:49] <ichudov> Just add another idler to your existing RPC and you will be golden
[19:54:15] <alex_chally> ichudov, well, like i said I ended up with a real vfd
[19:54:53] <ichudov> VFDs rule when you can use them
[19:56:08] <alex_chally> heck yes they do
[20:10:16] <alex_chally> any of you guys with touchscreen phones manage to keep them alive in the shop for long?
[20:10:38] <alex_chally> my blackberry holds up pretty well, but I am afraid that my new droid is gonna get pwned
[20:11:08] <ichudov> I have android and i works good. I actually use an Android app to watch my mill working, since I installed a netcam on the mill. This way I lay on the couch reading and watch the mill.
[20:11:56] <alex_chally> ichudov, sweet :D
[20:12:29] <alex_chally> ichudov, if I had the cash I would *love* to put an HD cam on my lathe toolpost and on the head of my mill, have them constantly recording
[20:12:41] <alex_chally> so that I can make videos of my work without actually stopping any work
[20:26:30] <Dallur> Here is something pretty to brighten up your day, I fitted the 316 foldable prop to my sailboat yesterday, and snapped some pictures:
[20:26:30] <Dallur> http://www.dallur.com/index.php?id=44&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=8&tx_lzgallery_pi1[pic]=37&tx_lzgallery_pi1[colrows]=1x1&tx_lzgallery_pi1[old]=5x5x26
[20:26:30] <Dallur> http://www.dallur.com/index.php?id=44&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=8&tx_lzgallery_pi1[pic]=40&tx_lzgallery_pi1[colrows]=1x1&tx_lzgallery_pi1[old]=5x5x26
[20:30:01] <alex_chally> bah, can someone linx me the packages to install emc on 10.04?
[20:31:24] <salvarane> sorry <alex_chally> the ubuntu 10.04 is an system 64bit or 32bit
[20:32:07] <alex_chally> salvarane, 32bit
[20:32:16] <salvarane> ok thanks
[20:32:35] <alex_chally> I don't think there is a 64bit EMC?
[20:32:45] <cradek> Dallur: 316 as in stainless steel?
[20:32:56] <alex_chally> is there even a legit reason for running emc in 64bit?
[20:33:26] <cradek> we build packages for 32 bit, and the realtime kernels we distribute are 32 bit.
[20:33:48] <cradek> I don't think there's any problem running emc on 64 bit, but there's probably also no benefit
[20:34:02] <cradek> I don't know whether rtai is stable on 64 bit yet or not. last we tried, it didn't seem to be.
[20:35:11] <Dallur> cradek: yes
[20:35:29] <cradek> Dallur: neat - did you make the prop?
[20:35:37] <salvarane> I have to test the emc2 into my system gentoo amd64 with kernel 2.6.34 patched rtai
[20:36:06] <Dallur> cradek: unfortunately no, I wish I had though, as far as I know there is only one company on the planet that makes stainless foldable props
[20:36:06] <alex_chally> cradek, do you have the link to the packages for 10.04?
[20:36:20] <Dallur> http://www.seahawk.com.au/
[20:36:24] <alex_chally> Dallur, that prop is mighty shiny, how did you polish it?
[20:36:51] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/lucid/
[20:36:58] <Dallur> Yup, I decided to see how a mirror surface would stand up to seawater and fouling
[20:37:17] <Dallur> Probably took around 2 days :P
[20:39:32] <alex_chally> cradek, what in that directory am I actually going to have to instalL?
[20:39:39] <alex_chally> http://linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/lucid/emc2.4/binary-i386/
[20:39:42] <alex_chally> just those packages?
[20:40:09] <cradek> if you said what you're trying to do, I missed it
[20:40:40] <alex_chally> sorry, I am looking to install EMC on a intel atom board
[20:41:00] <cradek> why not use the live cd if it's a fresh install?
[20:41:33] <alex_chally> cradek, can you do that and then upgrade to 10.04?
[20:41:51] <cradek> alex_chally: http://linuxcnc.org/mozmck/
[20:42:06] <cradek> still experimental - please report with your results
[20:42:23] <alex_chally> cradek, thanks! i did not know nthe 10.04 ISOs were out yet
[20:42:39] <alex_chally> hm, can you do a usb key install off of those?
[20:42:50] <cradek> don't know
[20:43:06] <alex_chally> k, worth a try, I don't feel like ripping a cd drive out of another computer right now
[20:59:35] <alex_joni> alex_chally: afaik there are some programs out there that take an iso and put in on usb sticks
[21:50:24] <alex_chally> oh ho ho
[21:50:27] <alex_chally> this is an interesting install
[21:50:44] <alex_chally> installing off a microsd card
[21:50:49] <alex_chally> using my blackberry as the card reader
[21:50:50] <alex_joni> heh, nice
[21:50:50] <alex_chally> D:
[21:50:55] <alex_chally> it is looooooooooow
[21:50:58] <alex_chally> slow
[21:52:49] <robh__> alex_chally, this will put ISO onto USB stick for you,, http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[22:01:52] <vmwarenewbie> wtf]
[22:23:42] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[22:27:24] <cncmachineguy> anyone know how to upgrade EMC2 without a network connenction?
[22:49:10] <zsircusr> hi
[22:49:26] <zsircusr> zsircusr is now known as Gangsta
[22:49:59] <Gangsta> need some advice
[22:52:20] <alex_joni> well.. you're only getting some if you ask questions..
[22:52:20] <Gangsta> do i NEED to use shielded wires for all my sensors or are there other options?
[22:52:31] <alex_joni> what kind of sensors?
[22:52:53] <Gangsta> limit and spindle speed
[22:53:25] <alex_joni> limit switches?
[22:53:44] <alex_joni> if so, what voltage on them?
[22:53:45] <Jymmm> With as much electrical noise that motors produce, shielded is ALWAYS recommended.
[22:54:03] <Gangsta> everything works excellent when scattered one end of the workshop to the other, yhet when boxed up nothing works right
[22:54:12] <Gangsta> homing fails
[22:54:19] <alex_joni> yeah, but if you use 24V or so for limits, then you might be fine without shields
[22:54:34] <alex_joni> but like Jymmm said.. always go with shielded if possible
[22:54:48] <Gangsta> and spindleshows 400 rpm wheb switched off
[22:55:13] <Gangsta> im using 5vfor limits
[22:55:32] <Gangsta> any recommended cable?
[22:55:50] <alex_joni> even cat5 is ok for limits
[22:56:11] <Jymmm> Gangsta: what cable are you using now?
[22:56:38] <Jymmm> alex_joni: only becasue the twisted part I'd bet.
[22:56:46] <cradek> 24v to something like opto22 modules is very noise-immune
[22:56:54] <Gangsta> just normal wire
[22:57:01] <cradek> the input modules have a fairly long time constant which eliminates the noise
[22:57:03] <ds2> why not a current loop over cat5?
[22:57:07] <Jymmm> Gangsta: coat hanger? bailing wire?
[22:57:33] <cradek> concentrate on shielding your encoder wires - limits and home are not critical
[22:58:53] <Gangsta> a 100uF accross the limit fixes thembut that seems more of a botch
[22:59:13] <Gangsta> without it I cannot home
[23:00:10] <cncmachineguy> anyone know how to upgrade EMC2 without a network connenction?
[23:00:13] <Gangsta> should the steppers be shielded also?
[23:00:19] <renesis> ha youre going to weld the switch or something
[23:00:35] <renesis> you could prob rc filter the switch signal at whatever its connected to
[23:01:07] <Gangsta> what do u mean weldthe switch
[23:01:17] <renesis> like 1K and 0.1uF RC or something
[23:01:41] <renesis> if you have a cap directly across is youre dumping the cap through the switch contacts
[23:01:45] <Gangsta> sory i meant 100nF
[23:01:53] <renesis> o
[23:02:06] <Gangsta> which is 0.1uF
[23:02:20] <renesis> its prob a pretty hardcore switch so even 100uF is prob not going to mess it up bad
[23:02:57] <renesis> but yeah if you put the cap after a series resistor at your sense input, it might do a lot more
[23:03:01] <Gangsta> so I should shield everything to be safe?
[23:03:08] <renesis> in general yes
[23:03:17] <Gangsta> cool
[23:03:46] <renesis> only connect shield on one side, should be the controller side
[23:04:07] <Gangsta> next up is the atc lol. my first attempt at classic ladder
[23:04:13] <renesis> and connect the shield to a grounded chassis or a power supply ground, dont stick it on an iopin ground
[23:04:29] <Gangsta> will do
[23:04:33] <renesis> kk
[23:04:59] <Gangsta> one central gndfor all shields?
[23:05:16] <renesis> prefferably, but you can just connect them all to the chassis
[23:05:49] <renesis> like ideally everything goes to one ground but it never really goes down like that in most real life stuff
[23:06:11] <Gangsta> what about motor power gnd and controller gnd
[23:06:30] <renesis> should go back to the power supply ground
[23:06:55] <renesis> unless by step ground you mean the ground on the cable
[23:07:04] <Gangsta> so join the gnds on both power supplies too?
[23:07:05] <renesis> thats usually the stepper chassis and cable shielding
[23:07:15] <renesis> yeah probably
[23:08:08] <Gangsta> think i'll need to tear it apart andstart again lol
[23:08:59] <renesis> you power should have some sort of neutral or earth, generally if a system isnt grounded by something its connected to, it grounds on one of those
[23:09:40] <Gangsta> justgutted because everything worked perfectuntil i boxed it all up
[23:09:54] <renesis> like if the machine itself is grounded you could use that and run offline in regards to your mains power
[23:10:18] <renesis> or if you have a known ground to strap to
[23:10:59] <renesis> grounding is kind of an art, eheheh
[23:11:47] <Gangsta> My machine is groundedto earth on the mains side, and alsois a gnd for the powersupplies due to the steel chasis
[23:12:17] <renesis> right so you can use the chassis or a power supply connected to it as the absolute ground ref
[23:13:01] <renesis> if your supplies are working right, they suck back any current theyre putting out so nothing is supposed to dump into earth ground
[23:13:04] <renesis> not much at least
[23:13:21] <Gangsta> I am actually quite goood at electronics, but in lab conditions. where noise isnt really an issue
[23:13:43] <renesis> okay, so ground paths are never zero ohms with no inductance or no capacitance
[23:14:12] <renesis> any any current through them represents a magnetic field which can interact with all the other magnetic fields
[23:14:50] <renesis> so just think of it like that and the lab electronics is pretty useful
[23:15:01] <Gangsta> cool
[23:15:41] <Gangsta> are there any issues mixing transformerand switch mode power supplies?
[23:16:03] <renesis> justhaving both in the same system?
[23:16:09] <renesis> it shouldnt be a problem
[23:16:59] <renesis> there will prob be noise coupling issues but digital stuff is prob on the other side of voltage regulators, shrug
[23:17:35] <Gangsta> iuse a hugetoroid and a few massive caps for my stepper supply, and my pcs power pack for control electonics and relay switching
[23:17:47] <renesis> toroid transformers yeah that should be good
[23:18:35] <renesis> theyre better about ignoring noise
[23:18:52] <renesis> they keep most their magnetic field to themselves inside the ferrite core
[23:19:41] <renesis> pc is stupid noise and stuff still works
[23:19:46] <renesis> *noisy
[23:20:35] <Gangsta> i wasnt sure what i needed so i got a 600 VA, 2x18v taps one for each stepper, and a 10,000uF 100v cap over each
[23:21:04] <Gangsta> sorry 2x 10 amp bridges in there too
[23:21:30] <Gangsta> it regulates to about 24 v
[23:23:08] <Gangsta> gotta go renesis, thanks forall your help
[23:53:49] <mozmck> so renesis, do you use renesas micros?