#emc | Logs for 2010-08-12

[00:04:25] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:16:44] <L84Supper> anyone ever have one of these Cinncinatti Vertical Mill? http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/1886022799.html
[01:33:50] <Valen> morfic have any computers on 24/7?
[03:00:07] <morfic> Valen: yes, was thinking of locking the dvr in a box in garage, too easy to steal the cameras and my pc while you are at it, but the dvr inside the bolted down box stays :)
[03:09:58] <Valen> i'm saying if you have any existing computers, you can use them
[03:10:03] <Valen> just run motion capture stuff
[03:11:03] <Valen> make sure you have sufficent resolution on the cameras at night to clearly identify a face
[03:11:35] <Valen> most security camera footage seems to give you a great idea of what colour fuzzy blob the cops should be looking for ;->
[03:39:25] <morfic> Valen: i know what you meant, i just don't want to put the info on a box they can steal with the rest
[03:39:46] <Valen> upload it as it happens over FTP
[03:44:26] <morfic> that would be one way, if i can't interface it with my host, i could set up on a friend's machine
[03:44:52] <morfic> i'll see what IR cam's i can find that i could setup in that way
[04:22:35] <elmo40> my company may be 'donating' a manual knee mill to my home shop :) R8 taper, 8x35'ish table, not sure on the Hp of the motor. variable speed spindle. oil lube. no power feeds. not sure on the make
[04:24:05] <Jymmm> elmo40: Cool
[04:24:56] <elmo40> it is older, used, might have a few broken parts
[04:25:17] <elmo40> but a knee mill is 'always' repairable (unless they dropped it in the move) ;)
[04:30:34] <elmo40> http://www.tourengine.com/technology/design.html
[04:37:11] <Valen> morfic if you want to freak em out, use one of the vision processing libs, and have a pan/tilt camera zoom on them ;->
[04:37:24] <Valen> possibly add a torch/laser to it ;->
[04:38:06] <Valen> building this tool length probe, any suggestions pro/con on debouncing it?
[07:09:24] <archivist> elmo40, that engine designer forgets that the gas heats up with compression
[07:09:54] <archivist> its how diesels work!
[07:10:26] <Jymmm> whats the glow plugs for?
[07:10:29] <Valen> machine rebuilder wanted $5000 to fix up our mill :-<
[07:10:44] <archivist> Jymmm, just for starting
[07:11:06] <Jymmm> archivist: like a pre heat sorta thing?
[07:11:09] <archivist> Jymmm, not needed on direct injection types
[07:13:31] <archivist> yes preheat, glow plug engines have the chamber in the head , this cools the charge a bit so needs the heater
[07:13:54] <archivist> but they burn a bit cleaner
[07:14:38] <Valen> theres no inherent problem with the air getting hot in the cold chamber
[07:14:46] <Valen> as they say "relativley"
[07:15:07] <Valen> this kind of seperate compression and expansion chamber thing has been done before
[07:15:51] <Valen> one handy feature is its really easy to get some good compression, IE make the compression piston larger than the expansion one
[07:18:03] <archivist> yes I have seen a running 1940's one made by Sulzer
[07:22:25] <Valen> tradeoff is all that extra spinning crap
[07:22:29] <Valen> and sliding
[07:24:28] <archivist> he may be able to get a slightly higher compression be cause of the cooler cylinder, but not a lot because of the cooling jacket bringing heat from the hot side :)
[07:25:37] <archivist> I have been researching some patents recently and its amazing how the same ideas keep appearing
[07:37:27] <awallin> what's the maximum depth of recursion on a modern CPU?
[07:37:54] <awallin> i.e. I have a recursive function, how many times can it call itself before I get a "segmentation fault" ?
[07:45:12] <archivist> depends on your memory not the chip
[07:46:07] <archivist> and how much crap you put on the stack with each level
[07:46:27] <Jymmm> crap stack?
[07:46:47] <Jymmm> is that anything like a crab shack?
[07:47:07] <archivist> modern languages push local variables on the stack
[07:47:38] <awallin> could be an infinite loop, maybe it's good my program is segfaulting... means theres a bug
[07:50:45] <archivist> add a counter in the call and increment, the error out if it gets too deep
[08:01:17] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as bootnecklad
[11:48:46] <jthornton> * jthornton wonders if this is a backplot error or if the tool actually takes different paths for different tool orientations
[11:49:05] <jthornton> tool orientation 1-9 same program http://imagebin.ca/view/dCKJL8.html
[11:49:18] <jthornton> the program http://pastebin.ca/1915686
[11:49:31] <jthornton> and this is with cutter comp turned on...
[12:00:38] <jthornton> hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go
[12:07:21] <elmo40> damn work...
[12:07:42] <elmo40> I need multiple jobs to pay my basic life needs. Canada is too expensive.
[12:17:13] <cpresser> since a lot of you people are native english-speakers.. can somebody try to explain the joke in the new xkcd-comic? http://xkcd.com/778/
[14:26:29] <cradek> cpresser: not really
[14:26:45] <cradek> cpresser: maybe you have to know what that game is to understand it?
[14:33:49] <cpresser> cradek: good to know, I am not the only one :)
[14:34:00] <cpresser> perhaps ill ask at boardgamegeek :)
[14:35:54] <cradek> I think there's an xkcd blog
[14:36:30] <cpresser> and a forum... but that would be cheating :)
[14:36:54] <cradek> it sure may not be worth the trouble anyway...
[14:37:59] <awallin_> was there an easy way of running the emc interp through python, and getting canon-commands back?
[14:38:38] <cradek> well AXIS does it ... not sure if it's easy
[14:39:36] <awallin_> I'm playing with cutting simulation. it could be driven by the interp at some point
[14:40:37] <awallin_> it subtracts sweeps like this http://imagebin.org/109302 from the stock volume
[14:44:57] <cradek> sweet
[15:30:27] <micges> rooks: hi
[15:30:38] <rooks> o hai
[15:51:20] <JT-Work> is there a way to set the value of an input in a comp with g code?
[15:52:10] <awallin_> aren't there some spare analog outputs or something?
[15:53:34] <ichudov> save
[15:53:48] <JT-Work> awallin like m68?
[15:55:03] <awallin_> JT-Work: yes, something like that, looking here now: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[15:55:07] <JT-Work> * JT-Work fires off virutalbox to look
[15:55:22] <JT-Work> I was reading that :)
[15:55:45] <awallin_> motion.analog-out-00
[15:55:45] <awallin_> (float, out) These pins (00, 01, 02, 03 or more if configured) are controlled by M67 or M68.
[15:55:53] <awallin_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_emc2hal.html
[15:55:58] <awallin_> if you want a float pin
[15:57:11] <JT-Work> yes, thc.volts-reguested it float in :)
[15:57:47] <JT-Work> cool, I'll get that configured and one more thing I can't forget to do
[15:59:13] <JT-Work> thanks
[16:03:13] <alex_joni> https://www.surplex.com/de/maschinen/ansicht,7,goodway-gcl-42-cnc-drehmaschine-95653.html?auction_id=134&lotnr=16
[16:06:06] <ichudov> gut
[16:47:36] <ichudov__> Something very strange happened yesterday. I mounted a 1/4" thick, 0.75" wide aluminum strip in a vise, along the X axis of course, and used a 3/16" endmill to cut off a piece. I just used the UP arrow on the keyboard with a small value of job (2 IPM) to make a nice and slow cut. But, to my astonishment, the cut was not straight along the Y, the cutting path veered to the left. What is up with this? Does EMC hold other axes when I jog X with keyboard? Could
[16:47:38] <ichudov__> it be that I have some leftover coordinate issues?
[16:47:53] <ichudov__> small value of JOG
[16:48:17] <ichudov__> and the weird thing is, then I moved the endmill to the right, pressed the DOWN arrow, and the return path was perfect
[16:48:25] <cradek> sounds like it moved in the vise
[16:48:39] <ichudov__> That would be very stupid of me, if true. :-(
[16:49:20] <ichudov__> I will try more today, I saved the cutoffs. I was machining those things to mount the keyboard on the pendant. Now it is very nice
[16:50:54] <ichudov__> One more question: After I home the mill, I have to press "Touch off" three times -- one for each axis -- and hit OK in a dialog. Is there some way to have some thing that would jjust reset all coordiinates and set X, Y, and Z to zero in G54?
[16:51:05] <ichudov__> just to save some button clicking, I mean
[16:52:24] <bricofoy> may be you can add a custon button with pyvcp for this ?
[16:52:27] <cradek> the mdi command g10 l2 p1 x0 y0 z0 will do that, but there's no way to do it in the touch off screen.
[16:52:54] <cradek> we hoped to improve touch off during cnc workshop to allow this kind of thing, but it didn't get done.
[16:53:28] <bricofoy> so I guess a pyvcp button calling the MDI command cradek give you should work
[16:53:38] <ichudov__> I am a C++ programmer, is there some way I could help? I use Tk a long time ago but very little
[16:54:21] <DaViruz> Dave911: i ran into som problems regarding the s5 plc today. i tried entering one of the PB's, but step5 refused to accept the operand names. turns out the german version of step5 uses "E" for input (eingang), while the english version uses "I". in other words, an german file cannot be used in a english program
[16:54:48] <cpresser> cradek, ichudov__ : how about configurable gui buttons, which just execute some MDI-Commands?
[16:55:20] <cradek> ichudov__: I think improving touch off is mostly gui work
[16:55:28] <cpresser> I was thinking about something like this the since I started using emc (2months ago)
[16:55:42] <ichudov__> I agree
[16:55:45] <ichudov__> with all of the above
[16:55:51] <bricofoy> cpresser, use pyvcp for this
[16:57:15] <bricofoy> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons
[16:58:03] <ichudov__> Wow, it was already done
[16:58:15] <cpresser> bricofoy: look exactly lite the thing i was searching for :)
[16:58:58] <ichudov__> I did not know that I could have custom buttons!!! Amazing
[16:59:56] <ichudov__> I can list several MDI_COMMANDs and refer to them as halui.mdi-command-00, halui.mdi-command-01 etc?
[17:01:49] <alSMT> cradek: I noticed touchy has a single block button option is the behavior the same as other gui's or does pole the switch and pause the program if the program is running? and does it finish the line and pause?
[17:03:01] <IchGuckLive> good evening from germany
[17:03:59] <bricofoy> ichudov__, yes exactly
[17:04:07] <bricofoy> I use some in my machine
[17:04:56] <bricofoy> one for rapid homing, one to reset all outputs I use in my machine
[17:05:39] <ichudov__> bricofoy: thanks
[17:05:48] <ichudov__> I am adding stuff now as we speak
[17:06:49] <bricofoy> http://imagebin.ca/view/iXE3O4.html
[17:08:25] <IchGuckLive> bricofoy: is this a mill or a lathe
[17:10:11] <bricofoy> a gluing machine for photovoltaic panels assembly
[17:11:00] <bricofoy> but I sometimes use it as a (large) router, just mounting a sindle at the glue pump place on Z
[17:11:32] <IchGuckLive> arend they baked in the oven thru to film
[17:12:35] <bricofoy> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xe6qf7_collage-d-un-module_tech
[17:12:48] <bricofoy> yes but what you describe is the first step
[17:12:51] <bricofoy> the "lamination"
[17:13:03] <bricofoy> and next we need to glue them into a frame
[17:13:08] <bricofoy> for roof mounting
[17:13:25] <bricofoy> this machine is for guing them into the frame
[17:13:47] <IchGuckLive> ok i see
[17:14:14] <IchGuckLive> here in W-Germany 1milion roofs are now under Photovoltaik
[17:14:26] <bricofoy> yeah
[17:14:37] <bricofoy> here in france, we start
[17:14:45] <IchGuckLive> i only have thermal Pipes Vitosol 300 120 pices
[17:15:12] <IchGuckLive> im on the french border near BITCH
[17:15:13] <bricofoy> but as usual, government understant nothing, and turns down buying prices for the solar electricity
[17:15:17] <Dave911> DaViruz: Actually it can.. there is a setting you can change so it uses German lingo rather than Western/English lingo So if you want to be able to enter it exactly the same as the printout that is possible...
[17:15:34] <bricofoy> killing a new activity in the egg... :/
[17:16:22] <IchGuckLive> DaViruz: Deutsch ?
[17:17:44] <IchGuckLive> bricofoy: use G64 P0.05 andit will turn on full motion
[17:18:05] <Dave911> DaViruz... look under the options settings I think ...
[17:20:54] <IchGuckLive> Dave911: does he want EMC in german
[17:21:15] <DaViruz> Dave911: oh, i looked for such a setting to no avail
[17:21:33] <IchGuckLive> i havend needet to change anything and it is in geramn as it compiled
[17:21:39] <DaViruz> but maybe it's in there somewhere
[17:21:42] <Dave911> Let me see if I can fire up the sw on my laptop ....
[17:22:16] <Dave911> IchGuckLive ... no he is trying to re-enter a Siemens PLC program using Step 5 ... he needs our sympathies .. ;-)
[17:23:01] <IchGuckLive> oh thats a miss i see
[17:26:56] <IchGuckLive> Dave911: do we now witch wars the transcoder sinumerik 802 or the new 810/840
[17:28:15] <Dave911> DaViruz: Look under Management - Language and change it to German... I hope you can read German as everything changes ... :-) Including the I's to E's and Q's to A's etc
[17:28:24] <cpresser> IchGuckLive: where exactly do you live? I am from saarland ;)
[17:28:33] <Dave911> He has an 810 - I think 1997 vintage..
[17:28:48] <IchGuckLive> Clausen bei Pirmasens
[17:29:01] <DaViruz> Dave911: yeah i know about that
[17:29:15] <cpresser> thats not to far from me, funny :)
[17:29:15] <DaViruz> i know enogh german to get by, but i don't get all the ebbrievations
[17:29:19] <cpresser> <- st.wendel
[17:29:37] <DaViruz> the UI becomes entirely unusable in german :/
[17:29:53] <IchGuckLive> cpresser: yes it is a stone srow in case of this channel
[17:30:30] <Dave911> OK that is how you do that... Might want to stick with English then... I can wade though it but only because I remember where the menu items are.. Like I said you need our sympathies ;-)
[17:30:39] <DaViruz> i downloaded both the german and english step5 manual and created a translation table for the operand names
[17:30:55] <DaViruz> but entering stuff using it seems very error prone
[17:31:38] <Dave911> Yes.. it is... You don't have an STL version of the program printout do you?? What you scanned before was the ladder version..
[17:31:49] <DaViruz> especially since some names are used in both, but with different functions
[17:32:01] <DaViruz> no, only ladder :/
[17:32:15] <DaViruz> at least i think so
[17:32:45] <Dave911> Just need to grind through it then.. unless you can get the file from the mach. maker... Now you see why not many use S5 any longer..
[17:32:58] <bricofoy> IchGuckLive, I already use G64 P1.2 and G64 P0.2 depending of the program selected :)
[17:33:14] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:34:34] <Dave911> IBH Softtec makes a software package called S5 for Windows.. it is ok. A little easier to use. Not at all cheap to buy though.
[17:34:53] <DaViruz> a friend recommended that also
[17:35:18] <DaViruz> actually, he recommended i throw out the S5 junk and reoplace it with S7
[17:35:46] <bricofoy> IchGuckLive, here is the program I use : http://pastebin.ca/1915873
[17:37:00] <Dave911> S7 is easier to use .. I use that also .. but Siemens equipment and software is not cheap.
[17:37:09] <DaViruz> i have about 18 pages with lines like "M 138.2 -M138.2 PB 9 3*, 5, 6
[17:38:18] <Dave911> S5 equipment is still very reliable, but it can be very difficult to use .. especially for someone going through it for the first time.
[17:38:29] <Dave911> That is probably the cross reference..
[17:38:56] <DaViruz> oh, makes sense
[17:39:03] <DaViruz> some operands have multiple PB's listed
[17:39:45] <Dave911> M138.2 is the bit, -M138.2 is the symbol, and it is used in PB9, controlled in rung/network 3 and used in rung/network 5 and 6.
[17:40:22] <Dave911> You don't have to enter that !!!
[17:40:28] <Dave911> :-)
[17:40:31] <DaViruz> got that :)
[17:40:45] <DaViruz> i got a reply from the new owners of busch
[17:40:57] <DaViruz> they forwarded my mail to this guy: http://www.bruns-werkzeugmaschinen.de/
[17:41:07] <bricofoy> cpresser, you can add a desactive option to pyvcp buttons to turn them gray for example when a program is running. like I did here : http://imagebin.ca/view/ny9wXO.html
[17:41:13] <DaViruz> he supports busch machines and sinumerik systems
[17:41:17] <DaViruz> which sounds great..
[17:41:52] <DaViruz> i just hope he is willing to outright send the files instead of offering his (probably hugely expensive) services
[17:42:03] <cpresser> bricofoy: could you please supply the panel.xml file for that?
[17:42:27] <cpresser> I think I could learn a lot from looking and modifying it
[17:42:28] <bricofoy> sure
[17:42:36] <bricofoy> moment
[17:45:30] <Dave911> I would send them another email... You don't need a service person... you need the original files.. Servicemen can't do much for free..
[17:46:25] <Dave911> Unless they are only willing to release the original files to him ... in which case you will have to pay him for the files most likely..
[17:46:32] <Dave911> BBL...
[17:47:22] <IchGuckLive> bricofoy: are there 2 diferent clues
[17:49:09] <bricofoy> IchGuckLive, no, we use the same silison sealant on both sides
[17:49:42] <bricofoy> first pass : the panel is on the table, we put some glue on its back, the put the frame on it
[17:50:12] <IchGuckLive> is there a baffet changer includet
[17:50:15] <bricofoy> then after drying, second pass, tu fill the gap between the glass and the frame bordel
[17:50:25] <bricofoy> bordeR :-D
[17:50:30] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:50:33] <bricofoy> that was on the video
[17:54:16] <bricofoy> cpresser, here are all my config files : http://filebin.ca/erpkn/table_joint.tar.gz
[17:54:42] <bricofoy> including hal files and custompanel.xml file :)
[17:56:30] <IchGuckLive> whow alot of work
[17:56:37] <cpresser> bricofoy: ty very much
[17:58:09] <bricofoy> IchGuckLive, approx one year to make and set up the machine, starting from nothing
[17:58:44] <IchGuckLive> oh you shoud have used the Hongkong utilities
[17:58:49] <bricofoy> and starting with printer steppers and 12mm trapezoidal screws :P :P
[17:59:09] <IchGuckLive> as here
[17:59:13] <bricofoy> then swiching to chineses big steppers and ballscrews
[17:59:24] <bricofoy> works far better :)
[17:59:29] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:59:35] <IchGuckLive> maedler inside
[18:01:05] <IchGuckLive> http://maedler.de/de/Catalog/G/1643.aspx
[18:01:37] <bricofoy> http://www.usinages.com/gros-portique-pour-encoller-des-modules-photovoltaiques-t13395.html?sid=2e4f91ce2569d3561bc1afc293f2aefe
[18:03:00] <IchGuckLive> bricofoy: you at the pictures ?
[18:03:16] <bricofoy> sometimes, yes
[18:03:31] <IchGuckLive> why dident u ise liniar ball bearings they are cheep from Berlin
[18:04:07] <bricofoy> because we started from nothing, and without any ideas of how to build such a machine :P
[18:04:12] <IchGuckLive> the hell of aluminium
[18:04:24] <bricofoy> picked some ideas from the net, some from ourselves
[18:04:31] <IchGuckLive> But the first Drawing is near perfect
[18:04:59] <IchGuckLive> this coudt lift a tank
[18:05:11] <IchGuckLive> http://bricofoy.free.fr/forums/machine/machine_023.JPG
[18:06:31] <IchGuckLive> bricofoy: are u on 40Volts
[18:07:41] <IchGuckLive> and also you like ypour First lady :D :DD XD
[18:09:25] <bricofoy> yes 40V 4A steppers
[18:10:08] <bricofoy> <IchGuckLive> and also you like ypour First lady :D :DD XD --> I dont understand what you mean (my english is quite poor)
[18:11:04] <IchGuckLive> as here i sa sarkosy in the posts apeear a lot
[18:11:30] <IchGuckLive> Just joking in the near of Catenom 6Nuclear power plant
[18:12:44] <bricofoy> ok lol
[18:13:05] <bricofoy> yeah, I can say I love "sarkonnard" :P
[18:21:49] <IchGuckLive> so by for today tonigt is the Starrain night for all over the Earth go out with your Wife and have a wich
[18:40:05] <Al_Smt> how can I show pin using touchy?
[18:41:09] <Al_Smt> or load hal_show
[18:54:04] <DaViruz> Dave911: the original manufacturer, busch, is gone. "axa" seems to have picked up the pieces
[18:54:21] <DaViruz> 13 year old machine, i'm guessing the files are lost, at least to them
[19:05:19] <frallzor> lo snugglies
[19:50:14] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[20:32:23] <morficmobile> JT-Work: you good at programming NPT ID threads? :)
[20:41:24] <JT-Work> no
[20:42:46] <JT-Work> I wish EMC was good at it
[20:45:08] <cradek> you'll have to use G33 and program each pass yourself
[20:45:23] <skunkworks> a little trig never hurt no one.
[20:45:49] <JT-Work> it hurts my head LOL
[20:55:28] <JT-Work> anyone know of an example of cutting tapered threads with G33?
[20:55:54] <Jymmm> * Jymmm eats a 24" Dagwood. There's my trig=Sin=glutony for the year!
[21:02:35] <ichudov> Lets say I was at a point (x1, y1, x1) and I did a command G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 R10, which would create a rotated shifted coordinate system. (right?) How do I "get out" of that coordinate system to back to the original, with rotation and shift undone?
[21:03:13] <cradek> x0 y0 z0 means no offset from machine coordinates. to get to rotation zero, just g10 l2 p1 r0
[21:03:45] <ichudov> Oh, so the values of x,y,x in G10 are offsets? I thought theyt were new coordinates.
[21:03:58] <ichudov> x,y,z
[21:04:10] <ichudov> Thanks for clarifying
[21:04:17] <cradek> ichudov: G10 L20 takes new desired coordinate values and does the math for you. G10 L2 is a direct specification of the offset from machine coordinates
[21:05:08] <cradek> yay, this is even up to date: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
[21:05:19] <ichudov> Wrote it down to the "never forget" file. Thanks a lot!
[21:05:32] <ichudov> This is my new Bible
[21:13:14] <morficmobile> JT-Work: i am more wondering about id shape to turn once i include a chamfer for a clean thread
[21:13:39] <cradek> pretty sure you'd turn the taper of the thread
[21:14:37] <morficmobile> that is not the problem, i am ok w/o adding a chamfer, when i add a chamfer i seem to push E1 basically into the part, by the amount of the chamfer
[21:15:05] <morficmobile> i say this based on a pipe reamer having the E1 major right at the 45deg intersection of the flutes
[21:15:38] <cradek> what is E1?
[21:17:12] <morficmobile> E1 is pitch diameter at the large end of the internal thread
[21:17:58] <morficmobile> since i turn an ID thread i should have said "E1 minor" too
[21:19:11] <morficmobile> what i am getting at is i lose from the hand tight engagement if i program E1 to be at the face of the part as machinist handbook would show
[21:19:34] <cradek> morficmobile: I guess I don't know anything about doing tapered threads except "keep screwing the tap until it's far enough"
[21:20:04] <morficmobile> what i am wondering about is if i should raise it up, so i am at the same diameter at the end of the chamfer
[21:20:09] <JT-Work> at least I know as much as cradek about tapping taper threads :)
[21:20:22] <morficmobile> cradek: yeah, likely we stay small and comp up until the stuff fits
[21:20:39] <cradek> JT-Work: ... and if that doesn't work, get a bigger wrench, those are hard to turn
[21:20:46] <morficmobile> i just like to feel like i know what i do and am guessing less
[21:20:52] <JT-Work> I have a huge T handle :)
[21:21:03] <morficmobile> 2 1/2 - 8 fits?
[21:23:50] <JT-Work> in the oil field we called pipe thread "8 round" cause that is how many turns it took to get it tight...
[21:24:41] <morficmobile> that part goes on some drilling rig actually
[21:25:09] <morficmobile> drill mud ate up the last casting pretty good, so they want it from Monel now
[21:26:21] <JT-Work> drill collars (the real heavy pipes at the bottom of the drill string) are made of Monel
[21:26:49] <JT-Work> * JT-Work heads home
[21:33:58] <morficmobile> CLASSIC CASE OF DRAW IT FIRST, WORRY LATER
[21:34:21] <Jymmm> Hi SWPadnos_
[21:34:34] <morficmobile> oops, we write comments with caps lock on, sorry
[21:34:53] <morficmobile> .004 difference is nothing to even worry about
[21:36:10] <Jymmm> Has anyone seen a shopvac with a 4" opening by chance? (I'm NOT looking to use an adapter)
[21:44:52] <roh_> roh_ is now known as roj
[21:44:54] <roj> roj is now known as roh
[21:48:14] <robh__> morficmobile, this might be usefull - http://www.rose-training.com/tandp/may04.htm
[22:12:51] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[22:13:22] <ichudov> I tried to add buttons today by following: [DISPLAY]
[22:13:22] <ichudov> # For extra buttons
[22:13:22] <ichudov> PYVCP=additionalbuttons.xml
[22:13:26] <ichudov> oops
[22:13:36] <ichudov> I tried to add buttons today by following: [DISPLAY]
[22:13:37] <ichudov> # For extra buttons
[22:13:37] <ichudov> PYVCP=additionalbuttons.xml
[22:13:39] <ichudov> oops
[22:14:43] <ichudov> I tried to add buttons today by following: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons, but it did not work, I get an error message postgui.hal:3: Pin 'pyvcp.touch-off-all' does not exist
[22:15:35] <ichudov> I defined a file additinalbuttons.xml, <pyvcp>
[22:15:35] <ichudov> <button> <halpin>"touch-off-all"</halpin> <text>"Touch Off ALL"</text> <font>('Fixed',16)</font>
[22:15:38] <ichudov> </button>
[22:18:03] <Jymmm> awallin: Heh, sorta what I was trying to avoid in a way.
[22:26:49] <frallzor> ey ries !
[22:28:45] <ries> hey frallzor !
[22:28:52] <ries> frallzor: How are you doing?
[22:29:10] <frallzor> good good =) you and your machine? :P
[22:29:31] <ries> frallzor: good...coildn't go for 2 weeks, but I finally got some resonable good and proces endmills and carving bits
[22:29:44] <ries> s/proces/priced/
[22:30:05] <frallzor> nice =)
[22:30:12] <ries> with a little luck this weekend I can go again...
[22:30:21] <frallzor> im doing some milling tomorrow, wish me luck, its been a while :P
[22:30:31] <ries> may be by teh end of this year or next year I am going to build a huise, so the machine will be put on good use then
[22:30:53] <frallzor> yeey
[22:38:15] <JT-Hardinge> ichudov: might be an error with your font try deleting that part
[22:38:49] <JT-Hardinge> try <font>("Helvetica",16)</font>
[22:40:08] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge cut some parts on the plasma table today and the THC is awesome... the cut is perfect
[22:48:57] <Jymmm> THC is ALWAYS awesome!!!
[22:49:14] <JT-Hardinge> you bet Jymmm
[22:49:22] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: How good of an edge does a plasma leave?
[22:50:02] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: equal to a mill?
[22:50:06] <JT-Hardinge> "my" plasma is an air plasma cutter and leaves a pretty good edge but does not compare to high end plasma cutters
[22:50:09] <JT-Hardinge> no
[22:50:24] <Jymmm> ah, ok. I have no idea.
[22:50:26] <JT-Hardinge> the edge is rounded and tapered a bit
[22:50:37] <JT-Hardinge> the thicker the material the more the taper
[22:50:57] <Jymmm> gotcha
[22:51:06] <JT-Hardinge> the dross (ugly stuff stuck to the edge) is a function of clean air and proper tip voltage
[22:51:42] <JT-Hardinge> the dryer the air and the closer to proper tip voltage and speed the less dross you have
[22:51:57] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Seems that air is the subject of the day today
[22:52:05] <JT-Hardinge> really?
[22:52:39] <JT-Hardinge> I missed it
[22:53:37] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Yeah, I had planned on using a 6" vortex inline fan 450CFM as it's only 1A and 50dB to exhaust the laser machine. I talked to someone today that said they don't have the static pressure. So I'm looking at dust collector at 8A and louder than shit
[22:53:58] <Jymmm> I'm not a happy camper to hear that.
[22:54:26] <JT-Hardinge> so you blow into the laser to exhaust the fumes?
[22:54:58] <Jymmm> It has a 4" vent on the back, the inline fan is meant to exhaust fumes.
[22:55:13] <Jymmm> the fan has a 6" diameter, the laser 4"
[22:55:53] <Jymmm> make sense?
[22:56:18] <JT-Hardinge> no, not really... what does static pressure have to do with moving air?
[22:57:17] <Jymmm> to stop flaming I suppose.
[22:57:34] <Jymmm> Static pressure is a foreighn subject to me
[22:57:45] <Jymmm> Though I have been readin a LOT about it.
[22:58:11] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: you know about static pressure?
[22:58:27] <JT-Hardinge> so you have to raise the cabinet pressure to above nominal and exhaust the air?
[22:59:04] <Jymmm> I guess
[22:59:46] <JT-Hardinge> is there any spec on the CFM needed?
[23:00:35] <Jymmm> Let me see if I can find any, might take a phone call.
[23:00:50] <JT-Hardinge> the 6" will not deliver 450CFM with the reduction in area to 4" and other things that slow the flow down like input size and changing directions
[23:01:31] <Jymmm> Well the 6" was my idea to compensate for duct work.
[23:02:28] <Jymmm> Laser duct 4" ----> 4" to 6" ----> 6" inline fan ---> 6" flex duct @ 25 ft
[23:02:43] <JT-Hardinge> 6" down stream duck work will help reduce the back pressure for sure which will help the overall CFM
[23:03:19] <JT-Hardinge> is this like a duct booster kind of a fan?
[23:04:20] <Jymmm> http://atmosphere.com/english/html/product/fans/vtx/vtx600.html
[23:05:04] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: they are used in hydroponics, I THOUGHT they make work for this application
[23:05:27] <JT-Hardinge> ok, that is a serious fan not junk
[23:05:57] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm not trying to be cheap with the equipment, just with power/noise pollution
[23:06:10] <JT-Hardinge> I'd call them up and find out what kind of CFM you would get with 25' of 6" flex duct on the down stream side
[23:06:22] <Jymmm> the laser or the fan?
[23:06:30] <JT-Hardinge> then find out the CFM you need for your laser
[23:06:42] <Jymmm> k
[23:07:08] <JT-Hardinge> they should be able to give you an idea what 25' of duct will give you in static pressure
[23:07:49] <Jymmm> I have so many browser windows and pdf's open right now it's pathetic!
[23:08:13] <JT-Hardinge> then you can derate it to see what your ideal cfm might be
[23:08:46] <JT-Hardinge> the 450 cfm rating I'm sure would be open ended
[23:08:57] <Jymmm> I dont know what that mean.
[23:09:16] <JT-Hardinge> with no exit ducting attached to the fan
[23:09:43] <Jymmm> Ok, here are the laser specs.....
[23:10:07] <JT-Hardinge> you could also go to 8" duct on the downstream side of the fan to reduce static pressure
[23:10:20] <Jymmm> High-pressure vacuum blower capable of 250 CFM (cubic feet per minute) @ 6 inches static pressure (425m3/hr at 1.5kPa)
[23:17:59] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: On that fan link I gave, at the bottom there is a little chart with 0 - 1.5", but what are the bottom numbers? Is that like 349CFM @ 0.5" SP ???
[23:20:59] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[23:21:05] <Jymmm> ok
[23:23:49] <ichudov> Guys, never mind, I got HalVCP to work. Just when I thought I knew of all great features, I was totally blown away by this great concept, not I can have any GUI I want.
[23:23:57] <ichudov> not -> now
[23:24:54] <skunkworks> ichudov: gets better and better :)
[23:25:31] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: If you care... http://filebin.ca/wfawua/Understanding_Static_Pressure.pdf
[23:27:14] <Jymmm> Crap... if going up to the 12" fan, at 250CFM it's still only 2" of SP http://atmosphere.com/english/html/product/fans/vtx/vtx1200.html
[23:28:10] <ichudov> skunkworks: indeed, gets better and better. I can monitor a few things with HalVCP too, like velocity and following error, right?
[23:28:13] <Jymmm> The guy I spoke with today DID say to stay away from squirrel cage type fans
[23:28:18] <JT-Hardinge> heh I have a manometer you can borrow
[23:28:32] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Cool =)
[23:29:22] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: I have clear tubing and Red Dye #12 for what good that may be *shrug*
[23:29:33] <JT-Hardinge> I used to manage a nail making operation in New Orleans and we had a long narrow building with two large fans on the back wall and roof vents
[23:29:55] <JT-Hardinge> it tool me 2 years to convince the night shift not to open the roof vents lol
[23:30:40] <JT-Hardinge> open them up and the air flowed from the last few roof vents to the fans and no air came in the front door so 90% of the building had no air exchange
[23:30:53] <Jymmm> it was sucking at the roof line instead of the floor?
[23:31:10] <JT-Hardinge> always sucks from the place of least resistance
[23:31:15] <Jymmm> yep
[23:31:20] <JT-Hardinge> ie the closest hole
[23:32:00] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: You know what I need (besides a keg).... A happy medium betweent eh inline fan and a dust collector.
[23:32:25] <Jymmm> Even the HF one is LOUD and 8A
[23:32:42] <JT-Hardinge> you need to know what the laser needs and what the downstream duct will do to SP
[23:32:49] <JT-Hardinge> then you can pick a fan
[23:33:06] <Jymmm> I already said wha thte laser needs.... 250CFM @ 6"
[23:33:18] <JT-Hardinge> I missed that
[23:33:23] <Jymmm> Oh, sorry
[23:33:33] <Jymmm> High-pressure vacuum blower capable of 250 CFM (cubic feet per minute) @ 6 inches static pressure (425m3/hr at 1.5kPa)
[23:33:48] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: ^^^^^
[23:33:53] <JT-Hardinge> I thought you were talking about another fan :)
[23:34:02] <Jymmm> That's from the laser manual
[23:34:22] <JT-Hardinge> can you mount the noisy one outside?
[23:34:49] <Jymmm> Not really, especially in the winter time not gonna happen
[23:35:22] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: But it's also sucking 8Amps, I'm not sucking up chips here
[23:35:50] <Jymmm> dust particles the size of grains of sand/salt maybe
[23:35:58] <Jymmm> or smaller
[23:36:37] <Jymmm> Cutting/engraving acrylic is Smelly, leather/rubber is *MUCH* WORSE
[23:38:15] <JT-Hardinge> yea, 6" SP is a killer
[23:39:27] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: I need to find a Dc like the ones HF sells to see the SP of those lil things, then see if I can toss one on a speed control and still get the SP I need.
[23:39:51] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge:
[23:41:17] <JT-Hardinge> I assume the high SP is needed to remove the particles but I'm guessing about that or maybe to make sure all the holes in the unit are at negative pressure
[23:41:31] <Jymmm> I'm thinking the later
[23:41:50] <Jymmm> If smoke gets on the lenses == VERY bad thing
[23:42:09] <Jymmm> lenese == optics mirrors, etc
[23:43:23] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Their "Air Assist Kit" (which is above and beyond the exhaust blower) is $1200
[23:44:01] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: It blows across ALL the optics, and down away from the focusing lens on to the meterial where it's being cut
[23:44:11] <Jymmm> material
[23:44:27] <Jymmm> It also prevents flame-ups of the material
[23:44:39] <JT-Hardinge> wow
[23:45:05] <JT-Hardinge> have you ever seen vortec products?
[23:45:12] <Jymmm> no
[23:45:34] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: This is what the guy recommended http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html
[23:45:51] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: 660CFM, but doens't state the SP
[23:46:36] <JT-Hardinge> does the air assist kit look anything like these? http://itwvortec.thomasnet.com/viewitems/air-knives/itw-vortec-curtain-transvector-air-knives?
[23:46:38] <Jymmm> If I can half that to 330CFM, but mainatin the SP, I might be ok
[23:47:34] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: No, let me show you, hang on...
[23:51:37] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: This should give you a good idea.... http://filebin.ca/ajtheo/AirAssistInstallationInstructions.pdf
[23:53:37] <JT-Hardinge> at least they have good instructions
[23:53:54] <JT-Hardinge> time for me to wander in and eat dinner
[23:54:10] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: For $1200 they better be!
[23:54:42] <JT-Hardinge> so, are you going into business with this or is it a hobby?
[23:54:46] <JT-Hardinge> just wondering
[23:55:26] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Not intending for it to be a hobby.
[23:56:02] <JT-Hardinge> then you will work harder to make it work :)
[23:56:12] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: If push comes to shove, yes I will pay the $1200 for a blowjob.
[23:56:19] <JT-Hardinge> LOL
[23:56:39] <JT-Hardinge> time for me to wander in now and strap on the feed bag
[23:56:58] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: But as far as exhaust goes, I need to work on that becasue I really dont have the power to be feeding 8A for the noise level
[23:57:07] <Jymmm> s/for/or/
[23:58:51] <JT-Hardinge> I know you will figure it out...
[23:58:54] <JT-Hardinge> talk later
[23:59:01] <Jymmm> jthornton: Hasta