#emc | Logs for 2010-08-11

[00:04:20] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:43:50] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[00:45:04] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[01:26:52] <alex_chally> * alex_chally killed a $150 boring bar today
[03:23:22] <Valen> :-<
[04:15:36] <elmo40> alex_chally: bored today? >_<
[04:19:33] <alex_chally> elmo40, h4n h4n
[04:20:06] <alex_chally> I was fucking around with my program earlier and apparently when copying some code around I missed a line
[04:20:28] <elmo40> it happens
[04:20:35] <elmo40> I was lucky for 3 months!
[04:20:42] <alex_chally> specifically the G01 z.1 after the boring operation, before it rapids to the toolchange position
[04:20:53] <elmo40> my machine holds 120 tools. I use tools 40 to 60 in this one program.
[04:21:10] <elmo40> some how there was a D85 instead of a D55!
[04:21:27] <alex_chally> what was in pocket 85?
[04:21:29] <alex_chally> horror?
[04:21:29] <elmo40> but as I said, I was lucky... no one used tool 85 for anything, so the offset was still 0 ;)
[04:21:42] <alex_chally> awwww
[04:21:53] <alex_chally> i will see if I can snap a pic of the damage tomorrow
[04:22:17] <alex_chally> just got the bar and my part, I think the machine is still in good shape, although I have not thrown a gauge bar in and indicated it
[04:22:23] <alex_chally> turret still turrets :D
[04:22:55] <elmo40> lathe?
[04:52:06] <alex_chally> elmo40, yeah
[04:54:05] <elmo40> what happened? tool changed while still in the hole?
[04:57:54] <alex_chally> elmo40, didn't pull out the boring bar before I did a rapid to the toolchange position
[04:58:33] <alex_chally> man, toolchange in he hole sounds horrible D:
[04:58:59] <elmo40> but fun!
[04:59:00] <elmo40> oh
[04:59:03] <elmo40> wrong room... lol
[04:59:16] <alex_chally> although strangely aplicable
[07:06:33] <mendel|wine> mendel|wine is now known as mendel|hangover
[07:34:44] <mendel|hangover> mendel|hangover is now known as mendelbuild
[08:17:09] <r_> hello. I have a simple noob question -- how do you etch a 2d black and white png image with emc? I've spend hours configuring my lasercutter but I can't figure out this last step. pls help
[08:18:40] <bricofoy> just open it in axis, it will be converted to gcode by the imagetogcode.py script.
[08:18:56] <bricofoy> open it with file->open
[08:19:31] <bricofoy> then you will get a dialog box where you can change parameters for the gcode conversion.
[08:19:43] <r_> when I try this, it just makes a rectangle with many lines and no image... I'm very excited that my lasercutter can cut a solid rectangle of lines but how do I get the picture?
[08:20:47] <bricofoy> the picture is converted in a 3D code, the darker the pixel, the deeper the Z axis will go.
[08:21:07] <archivist> probably some kind of z to laser power conversion
[08:21:15] <bricofoy> I'm not sure you can get something with a lasercutter
[08:21:29] <bricofoy> as you have no Z
[08:21:39] <bricofoy> ho yes, archivist is right !
[08:22:17] <archivist> there are some laser users who may know of a hal comp you can use
[08:22:41] <archivist> but I have not read about any of that so far
[08:23:45] <r_> yes, I have no z... my laser power is controlled by the "spindle WPM"
[08:23:57] <r_> s/WPM/PWM
[08:24:24] <r_> so is there an importer for a more 2d operation -- what should I do?
[08:24:54] <MattyMatt> how does the .ngc file look? is the power adjusted for each X or Y move?
[08:25:42] <MattyMatt> most picture converters will put that into Z moves
[08:26:26] <bricofoy> I think you should try controlling your laser power with Z position, so you can really adjust laser power in realtime while moving
[08:27:00] <bricofoy> and so any picture to gcode converter will work
[08:29:05] <bricofoy> I think controlling laser on/off with one of the "motion.digital-out" bit and the power with Z pos is the solution to use a laser cutter as an engraver.
[08:30:44] <bricofoy> because controlling on/off with the spindel on/off commands is not synced with motion. So It is not the right way to do with a laser (I had the same problem with my gluing machine to control he glue flow, the solution was to use motion.digital-out"
[08:31:09] <bricofoy> use it with M64 and M65
[08:31:40] <r_> excellent,
[08:32:13] <r_> so I'll try to change th econfig file, but my file still gives me weird lines with the gcode converter
[08:33:21] <MattyMatt> is that just the raster?
[08:33:34] <r_> the source png is here: http://web.mit.edu/rlm/Public/mike.png ncg is here: http://web.mit.edu/rlm/Public/mike.ngc
[08:34:10] <MattyMatt> it sounds like X&Y are working, but you are not modulating the laser to get depth
[08:34:25] <r_> I think so
[08:35:28] <r_> so I should set pin 16 (which was previously "splnelg revolution" to z_step or something? or should it be z_dir?
[08:36:01] <MattyMatt> no, you have no Z motor
[08:37:07] <MattyMatt> that would be one way, add a Z motor and move the workpiece in and out of focus :)
[08:37:45] <r_> well, I have no drill either but that didn't stop me from treating the laser as a spinning piece of metal :)
[08:38:01] <r_> what's the "right
[08:38:05] <r_> way to do it?
[08:38:34] <MattyMatt> in HAL, divert all Z moves into power ajdustments. that's all I know
[08:39:13] <MattyMatt> I have a plain 3 axis stepper mill, so I haven't had to learn much of emc2 :)
[08:41:32] <r_> bricofoy: what is motion.digitalout?
[08:45:40] <bricofoy> r_, motion.digital-out-00 is a output hal pin from the motion controller
[08:46:05] <bricofoy> you can wire it to a physical output pin in HAl
[08:46:39] <bortreb> for the z axis? we don't know what we're doing, where do we go... :(
[08:51:28] <bortreb> oh, so motion.digital-out-00 is a software pin, which we can connect to the laser control pin
[08:51:54] <bortreb> but, it seems to be only true or false, so how could that modulate laser power?
[08:52:35] <bricofoy> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65
[08:53:00] <bricofoy> no, use it for on/off only, not to modulate
[08:53:08] <bricofoy> to modulate, use the Z position
[08:54:43] <bricofoy> but for on/off, using motion.digital-out instead of regular spindle on/off output is better because it is realtime. With regular spindle control, it is not realtime, and you will get some delay before laser is effectively turned on or off, so you will get engraving errors
[08:56:10] <bricofoy> I use motion.digital-out to control the glue flow in my gluing machine, because with regular sindle control, I had delay and i get glue somewhere is not needed.
[08:56:56] <bricofoy> look here, you will get videos of my machine : http://dailymotion.com/bricofoy/videos
[08:57:50] <bricofoy> sorry http://www.dailymotion.com/user/bricofoy
[09:01:52] <bortreb> so, to do this rerouting I edit my emc config file or is that handled somewhere else?
[09:07:31] <bortreb> bricofoy: pics of laser @ http://web.mit.edu/rlm/Public/laswer-pics/
[09:16:00] <bricofoy> bortreb, to use motion.digital-out, you must specifiy this in your HAL file
[09:18:04] <bortreb> ah clearly trival
[09:21:58] <bortreb> oh so I just open my laserkard.hal file and add
[09:23:12] <bortreb> net motion.digital-out-00 parport.0.pin-17-out ?
[09:23:33] <bortreb> er, net motion.digital-out-00 => parport.0.pin-17-out
[09:23:55] <bortreb> because I prevoiusly had net motion.digital-out-00 parport.0.pin-17-out ?
[09:25:00] <bortreb> er net spindle-pwm => parport.o.pin-17-out
[09:25:08] <bortreb> since that controlled the spindle?
[09:25:46] <bricofoy> not so simple
[09:26:33] <bricofoy> I think you need something to convert Z position into pwm to control your laser power
[09:26:50] <bricofoy> For this part, I can't help you
[09:27:58] <bricofoy> but for the on/off, you're right, you will have something like net laser-on-off motion.digital-out-00 => parport.0.pin-17-out
[09:31:54] <bortreb> thanks for your help, bricofoy
[09:32:32] <bricofoy> (assuming parport pin 17 controls the laser switch of course)
[09:33:34] <bricofoy> you should also do some HAL logic on this part, to turn off the output if program is paused
[09:33:46] <bricofoy> or if program is stopped before it's end
[09:33:53] <bricofoy> its
[09:35:19] <bricofoy> because if you stop the program motion.digital-out keeps the value it has at the moment
[09:36:27] <bricofoy> so you need some logic to turn it off. in my case, I make a "and" between motion.digital-out-00 and halui.program.is-running and the and output controls the parport pin
[09:37:03] <bricofoy> and i have a pycvp button that runs a MDI command to do M65 P0 to turn off the motion.digital-out-00 bit if needed
[09:45:43] <alex_joni> bricofoy: just remember that halui.program.is-running is not real-time
[09:45:57] <alex_joni> and I'm not sure it's not still on while paused
[09:52:16] <bricofoy> not it's not realtime, but it's just a security
[09:53:11] <bricofoy> and yes it is still on when paused, so I also used halui.program.is-paused to make another and
[09:53:48] <alex_joni> ok then ;)
[09:55:32] <bricofoy> the goal in my case is just to turn the glue off when program is stopped for some reason.
[09:58:32] <bricofoy> because at the beginning I had not noticed that motion.digital-out is NOT turned off unles specifically asked in the program, so the first time something has gone wrong and I pressed <escape>... I got some sort of surprise with the glue flow that keeps going on... Was a moment of little, hum "febrility" ? not sure this word exist but in french I would have used "fébrilité".
[09:58:55] <bricofoy> and a dead run to the compressor to turn off air power :-D
[09:59:53] <bricofoy> and a long washing time. incredible how silicon glue glues well on the machine table :-D
[10:27:45] <alex_joni> bricofoy: ouch ;)
[11:23:36] <morficmobile> 'morning
[12:29:36] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[12:50:41] <piasdom> how do i run a .py file in terminal and do they have a python gui ?
[12:53:09] <ichudov> What sort of G code can I use to mill eccentril things, like a crankshaft, if I hold it in a 4th axis.
[12:53:16] <ichudov> eccentric
[12:57:29] <elmo40> ichudov: gcode that follows the radius ;)
[12:59:35] <SteveStallings> SteveStallings is now known as steves_logging
[13:03:19] <piasdom> ichudov: i think you'll need a gcode generator or you'll be writing codes for weeks :) that's a LOT of commands
[13:04:22] <ichudov> I am now into writing G code subroutines. I think that a couple of subs should cover this job.
[13:06:53] <piasdom> ichudov: then i'm thinking you'll need g2,g3 somewhere in there :)
[13:07:21] <elmo40> you need to move Z depending on where the B axis is. Need to synch them together.
[13:08:21] <piasdom> elmo40: that's beyond me.... Thanks
[13:10:20] <cradek> on an XYZA machine this seems like simply Y = R cos A, Z = R sin A + r, where R = crankshaft swing radius, r = journal radius
[13:11:53] <ichudov> cradek: got it, seems easy
[13:14:59] <elmo40> but how do you synchronize them?
[13:21:32] <skunkworks> it is a 4 axis machine. emc will do sycronized motion in up to 9 axis
[13:29:15] <ichudov> all the axes in question are servo driven and perfectly syncrhonized
[13:36:28] <cradek> it's true you'll have to chop the motion up into G1 moves, but they'll become smooth as they blend together.
[13:42:56] <ichudov> cradek, yes, all good.
[13:44:02] <ichudov> I have been writing some G code subs lately. Have some for deep multipass pocketing (slot, rectangular, round), bolt hole anything (drilling or applying a numbered sub), facing etc. I would of course like to opensource them. Is there some repository of subs online or should I create my own?
[13:46:40] <cradek> others have placed those kinds of things on the linuxcnc wiki
[13:47:06] <ichudov> good idea, I will look for where they are
[13:47:07] <cradek> ichudov: I'm jealous of your rotary table deal
[13:47:20] <ichudov> If you are in Chicago area, stop by for a beer
[13:47:33] <ichudov> and thanks
[13:47:44] <ichudov> I had to buy a resolver converter for it.
[13:47:46] <cradek> I'm not, but I go by there sometimes and I will remember.
[13:47:50] <ichudov> Definitely
[13:51:19] <cradek> hmmm this is not the rotary table I want: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330451658228
[13:51:46] <ichudov> ROTFLMAO
[13:51:56] <ichudov> Mine is here http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/24-Troyke-Rotary-Table-U12PNC/
[13:52:36] <ichudov> That ebay one, is more like for positioning mirrors and such, could actually be useful
[13:55:01] <skunkworks> he has more then 10.. ;)
[13:55:16] <ichudov> he probably custom makes them when ordered
[13:55:27] <ichudov> which is very smart and I want to get into that too.
[13:55:36] <skunkworks> cradek: is the rotory table you have too sloppy?
[14:25:33] <cradek> skunkworks: yeah, I don't think it's worth the trouble - I'd like something I can use for more than just indexing
[14:25:58] <cradek> I think it's sloppy on purpose, so the indexing lock has slack to lock the table in position
[14:42:40] <skunkworks> doesn't stuart have some old rotory tables he doesn't need?
[14:42:41] <skunkworks> :)
[14:43:59] <cradek> I don't know, but there are nice used machinery places near him...
[14:44:28] <cradek> but I have a good manual rotary - seems like I should be able to put a motor on it somehow.
[14:45:46] <skunkworks> can you take the slack out of the gearset?
[14:46:55] <cradek> skunkworks: not without a lot of hacking it up
[14:47:09] <cradek> the slack is about a half turn of the worm
[14:47:59] <skunkworks> I hate conventional rotory tables - seems like a poor way of doing it. Stuff wearing against each other... yeck.
[14:49:56] <cradek> this one is vertical only and has a lube sump that bathes the worm - seems like a fine setup
[14:49:57] <cradek> it's just not made the way I want
[14:52:14] <skunkworks> we have some rather large rotory tables that we want to put servos on one of these days.
[14:52:47] <cradek> it would be cool to have two to bolt together...
[14:53:10] <skunkworks> right - although - the other end really only needs a pivit if you are going to make a trunion
[14:53:42] <skunkworks> or do you mean - bolt one 90 degrees on the other table?
[14:54:52] <cradek> yeah
[14:55:24] <cradek> maybe a pivot would still help - it might be easy to add
[15:32:25] <IchGuckLive> hi from germany
[15:52:43] <JT-Work> hi from Poplar Bluff
[15:55:34] <skunkworks> Heh - Hi from western WI
[15:56:17] <IchGuckLive> hoe isd the wether in wi
[15:56:46] <skunkworks> Hot and muggy. just north of us got 3-5 inches of rain
[15:56:55] <skunkworks> last night
[16:11:07] <IchGuckLive> we got only half a inch
[16:11:52] <IchGuckLive> the weat cutter wars running toll 30min beond mitnight as it start raining
[16:37:13] <ichudov> I started autopublishing all my G-code subroutines. I thought about placing them on wiki, but I do not know how to auto-update them. This webpage will be updated every night. Criticism and suggestions are welcome. I personally really hope that with these subroutines, EMC will take off to a whole new world where people have a lot of prototypes available for doing what they want. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/_My-EMC-G-
[16:37:15] <ichudov> Code-Subroutines/
[16:37:17] <ichudov> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/_My-EMC-G-Code-Subroutines/
[16:37:44] <ichudov> Whenever I do something, like making tee nuts, I will write functions for doing so generically
[17:00:41] <Jymmm> Morning Folks
[17:00:47] <CaptainW> Morning.
[17:00:49] <elmo40> hi from Ontario, Canada
[17:01:05] <elmo40> hot and muggy here, too :-/
[17:02:05] <elmo40> I don't understand ichudov's 'cutoff.ngc'
[17:02:12] <elmo40> cutting off what with an endmill?
[17:02:29] <elmo40> http://qurl.org/f31
[17:04:40] <CaptainW> It kind of looks like your intention would be to free something from your 4th axis with a single deep pass.
[17:05:03] <CaptainW> and you could set the speed different from the rest of the process.
[17:09:23] <skunkworks> it's a little dark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o70K3mvduqw
[17:09:34] <skunkworks> running the servo with 12v charger.
[17:10:04] <skunkworks> dad said at 6v it didn't even care.
[17:21:11] <elmo40> looks like the motor is larger then the table! http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMCO-80RDM4H20-550-ROTARY-INDEX-TABLE-SPEED-CONTROL-/220649129215?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding
[17:25:01] <tom3p> JT-Work, re your usb jogging wiki page, does the OS discover the capabilities of the usb device from some USB enumeration?
[17:25:02] <tom3p> ( where did the btn-trigger and x-analog-position events come from ?)
[17:29:13] <tom3p> JT-Work, i think it looks like this http://imagebin.ca/view/RfwDUL9.html
[18:07:00] <tom3p> ichudov: you cant exactly auto update the wiki, but you can overwrite the same file name(s)
[18:16:55] <IchGuckLive> im into the Pocket.py
[18:17:09] <IchGuckLive> some G-code is already working
[18:18:56] <tom3p> ichudov, you in Chicago? I'm in Elgin
[18:19:18] <IchGuckLive> ichudov_ witch side are you working on
[18:22:18] <IchGuckLive> folks by the way can i update the file with the same name EX upload the File with a existing filename does overrite the old i'am promptet to override ?
[18:25:24] <IchGuckLive> ok by for today
[18:27:06] <ichudov__> I live in Lisle, IL. Nice to see you are close tom3p
[18:28:00] <ichudov__> tom3p: lisle is appx. 1 hour from you
[18:31:38] <tom3p> I know the town, someday I'd like to see your EMC mill
[18:32:12] <ichudov__> Would love to see y ou
[18:32:46] <ichudov__> I have been making stuff on it almost every day, while enhancing it
[18:34:28] <alex_chally> my Atom arrived today
[18:34:36] <alex_chally> * alex_chally is excited
[18:34:50] <tom3p> ichudov, cool, will make up a date to visit, and run it by you
[18:35:18] <alex_chally> it is almost hard to believe after all the money spent on my CNC that the computer that actually runs it is under $150 total
[18:41:12] <skunkworks> heh - cool huh?
[18:41:19] <skunkworks> what atom board did you get?
[18:46:17] <ichudov__> alex_chally: my current CNC computer is free from garbage at work.
[18:46:22] <ichudov__> but I will upgrade it.
[18:46:34] <ichudov__> tom3p: yes, let me know and we will see what day works
[18:47:47] <alex_chally> skunkworks, the intel D510
[18:48:40] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[18:51:13] <skunkworks> nice
[18:52:46] <alex_chally> skunkworks, i had repurposed my htpc for testing, and was getting tired of running my tv off of my laptop
[19:12:54] <L84Supper> tom3p: I think that makes 3 of us in the Chicago area
[19:13:13] <ichudov__> L84Supper: have you found yourself a machine yet
[19:14:04] <L84Supper> ichudov__: still hunting for more equipment, most of the mills have been junk or overpriced
[19:14:41] <ichudov__> L84Supper: such is life
[19:21:00] <L84Supper> ichudov__: southern California must be really feeling a pinch, lots of deal there if I want to truck it back
[19:22:10] <ichudov__> But is a sight unseen deal with high shipping cost really a great deal
[19:23:33] <foxtrot_lab> i need to try a new tooltip i think
[19:24:06] <foxtrot_lab> i was using a dremel attachment with a little ball tip and on plywood it just pushes the dremel out of the mount
[19:28:33] <tom3p> L84Supper: someone suggested http://www.uship.com/ltl-freight/ and i found <$500 for 3 skids ~3500# total from Cleveland to nearby 'Premier' dock http://www.premiertwi.com/locations.shtml
[19:28:36] <CaptainW> ichudov__ do you have a budget for a machine?
[19:30:51] <ichudov__> Do you mean, do I have a calculation how much conversion cost for the Bridgeport Interact mill that I converted? Or are you asking L84Supper?
[19:32:41] <L84Supper> <--- looking for mills
[19:32:52] <CaptainW> Oh, I guess I mean t L84Supper
[19:33:28] <CaptainW> L84Supper do you have a budget for a machine?
[19:33:49] <CaptainW> Mill or lathe or what ?
[19:35:09] <L84Supper> CaptainW: fair price for small cnc mill, I don't care much about motors or electronics since EMC2 will replace most
[19:35:42] <L84Supper> I have most of the parts already around here to build a few of them
[19:36:52] <L84Supper> most of the equipment I've been finding is too worn mechanically to bother with
[19:39:01] <L84Supper> for example http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220646533704&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
[19:39:30] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190420076055&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
[19:39:48] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120598381067&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
[19:41:33] <CaptainW> wow, that does seem expensive.
[19:42:37] <L84Supper> people around here want 2K+ for their worn out manual bridgeport
[19:42:46] <ichudov__> L84Supper, why exactly do you think that the Comet mill (the first one) is worn? The pictures are crappy, but is the mill worn out?
[19:43:00] <ichudov__> Maybe it is just dirty and a pad pic
[19:43:08] <ichudov__> BAD pic
[19:43:37] <ichudov__> This is not a production type mill, so I would not presume a lot of wear by default
[19:44:28] <L84Supper> maybe the Comet would not have been too bad for only $1k + moving
[19:44:44] <CaptainW> I will be going up to my supplier later in the week, I will look at what he has around, but you really might want to just buy a new one from Smithy or Jet or something. http://www.smithy.com/index_inside.php?id=175&type=mill
[19:45:32] <CaptainW> In the end, it will probably cost the same to refurb a used one as just getting a new one.
[19:46:09] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/Kondia-Powermill-CNC-Mill-retrofit-ready-ball-screw-XYZ-/320567998281?pt=BI_Mills
[19:46:17] <L84Supper> tempted by this
[19:46:32] <CaptainW> wow, that's a monster.
[19:47:34] <L84Supper> our work is all Lab R&D, proto 1-2 parts
[19:48:50] <L84Supper> half the parts are 3-4 meters long that get machined on the ends, T-slot, extrusions, bar, rod etc
[19:49:40] <L84Supper> but I'd like to see about getting EMC2 into production CNC machines made in Asia
[19:50:53] <CaptainW> if it was dry, you will be in trouble.
[19:51:16] <L84Supper> plus I asked him a few questions but he didn't anymore about it
[19:51:27] <L84Supper> sp didn't know
[19:54:48] <CaptainW> Good day all. Good luck L84Supper
[19:54:52] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vertical-Milling-Machine-/280546835720?pt=BI_Mills
[19:55:38] <CaptainW> That one looks pretty
[19:57:32] <ichudov__> captain, for some reason I like this Comet. I am not sure what it is about "sounding dry".
[19:57:48] <ichudov__> the red one is a harbor freight mill
[19:58:07] <CaptainW> Yeah, I just looked it up. It's clean though.
[19:58:56] <ichudov__> you mean spray painted
[19:59:28] <ichudov__> or maybe not sprayt painted
[19:59:50] <CaptainW> The earlier one has been out of service. He knows very little about it but after he ran the motor he could 'tell' it has been out of service. If all of the ball screws and ways are pitted, it would stink.
[20:00:10] <CaptainW> The person selling it obvioiusly hasn't run it.
[20:00:55] <CaptainW> You would almost have to go inspect it.
[20:01:28] <L84Supper> it might be worth a 5hr drive if I had a spare day
[20:03:35] <CaptainW> See you guys later.
[20:03:40] <L84Supper> http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bfs/1890818895.html we measure 0.015" play in the table
[20:04:38] <cradek> beware 5V collets
[20:06:37] <L84Supper> where can I order 10" x 10" steel T slot to build my own frame :)
[20:07:39] <cpresser> are european users here?
[20:07:55] <cpresser> I am looking for a new spindle with tool-changer
[20:08:11] <ichudov__> L84Supper, I can make you a T-slot table for modest $$$$$
[20:08:14] <cpresser> any ideas how to get some cheap SK15-tool-holders?
[20:08:26] <JT-Work> jthornton: tom3p>JT-Work, i think it looks like this http://imagebin.ca/view/RfwDUL9.html
[20:09:35] <L84Supper> ichudov_ : aluminum T-slot is what we work with a lot around here, I wish I could order some steel versions :)
[20:11:13] <ichudov__> Look at that Comet mill on the weekend. You can move the table with a car battery to see wear pattern
[20:45:12] <DaViruz> wow, i found a backup of the PLC program for my sinumerik drive
[20:45:22] <DaViruz> in paper format, http://daviruz.meeep.net/IMG_1872ROT.JPG
[20:45:28] <DaViruz> this will take ages to input again..
[20:59:04] <Dave911> Do you have the software .. Step5 ? I thought that most of the old Sinumerics ran off of Eproms. At least you have the program.
[20:59:33] <Dave911> The Eprom cartridges usually had orange caps on them.
[21:00:28] <DaViruz> yeah the sinumerik software is in eprom, but there is also a simatic 5 plc that has battery backed storage
[21:00:51] <DaViruz> which depleted because the previous owner left it unconnected for a year..
[21:01:13] <DaViruz> and yep, i have step 5
[21:01:17] <Dave911> Oh well..... those batteries last for a long time usually .. but eventually they do die unfortunately
[21:01:56] <Dave911> Just a bunch of punching then.. tedious though...
[21:02:01] <DaViruz> there is about 150 pages of plc code :(
[21:02:27] <Dave911> Fire up the coffee pot .... :-)
[21:02:49] <Dave911> The chances of getting all that punched in properly the first time is slight....
[21:03:14] <DaViruz> yeah
[21:04:10] <Dave911> Or you could rip it all out and put in EMC2 .. :-)
[21:04:14] <DaViruz> i'm thinking OCR.. if only i can figure out the step5 file format
[21:04:34] <DaViruz> yeah i'll most likely end up doing that
[21:04:39] <Dave911> The step5 format is ancient... goes back to CPM days ...
[21:05:19] <DaViruz> i'll try contactic the machine manufacturer for the files also
[21:05:42] <Dave911> It would actually be easier to punch back in if you had an STL version of the program printout.. typing in ladder in S5 is really tedious.
[21:05:58] <Dave911> I would definitely do that ....
[21:07:12] <DaViruz> 90% of the stuff is just simple text statements, like M41.3 M41.3 M59 dyn.
[21:07:48] <DaViruz> i have no idea what it means though :)
[21:08:11] <Dave911> So some of it is in STL..... A M10.4, ON M11.1, =A2.3
[21:08:25] <andypugh> Back in the olden days when computer magazines used to print programs for you to key in, I used to record myself reading the code, then type it in listening to myself.
[21:09:00] <DaViruz> i can't stand hearing my own voice
[21:09:22] <andypugh> Ha! Have you heard mine? There is a reason most of my videos are silent
[21:10:03] <Dave911> Interesting Andy ... actually neither can I .. (my voice.. ) strange eh? I heard you talk in one of your videos Andy ... I didn't reach for the volume control ... ;-)
[21:10:45] <andypugh> I think it is because your own voice sounds utterly different inside your own head
[21:11:02] <bootnecklad> hey andypugh remember me nattering about my ttl processor?
[21:11:13] <Dave911> Probably ...
[21:11:37] <andypugh> On that one where I demonstrate hobbing and talk a lot, the Youtube auto-transcript is _hopeless_
[21:11:38] <Dave911> DaViruz ... If you get stuck.. let me know.. I work with Siemens S5 equipment now and then...
[21:11:59] <andypugh> I don't think it gets a single word correct.
[21:12:02] <DaViruz> i kind of got that impression, i'll keep that in mind, thanks
[21:12:37] <andypugh> bootnecklad: Ah, yes, is it working?
[21:12:47] <bootnecklad> um, I havnt finished it but http://www.youtube.com/user/bootnecklad#grid/user/02ED71412E1E41AA
[21:12:53] <Dave911> You need to put the code in the right section also ... but you might know this ... PB10 is a lot different than OB10, etc
[21:13:11] <bootnecklad> people on other servers & channels keep nattering at me to make more videos
[21:14:04] <Dave911> People love videos... like Utube stuff, much more than I would have expected... even some really stupid videos get a lot of hits..
[21:14:18] <DaViruz> Dave911: yeah, i've been reading up a little
[21:14:28] <DaViruz> the section names are printed at the top of each page
[21:14:35] <Dave911> That is right..
[21:15:09] <Dave911> I would do everything offline and then transfer it all in..... the "sections" are actually called blocks.
[21:15:33] <DaViruz> any idea what the LAE=** is at the other side?
[21:15:57] <DaViruz> * DaViruz is hoping checksum
[21:16:06] <DaViruz> that would make things immenely easier
[21:16:18] <andypugh> bootnecklad: Not tempted to build a CNC wire-wrapper?
[21:17:02] <bootnecklad> that would be epic and make things so much faster
[21:17:29] <andypugh> I believe they existed
[21:17:39] <bootnecklad> * bootnecklad googling
[21:17:45] <Dave911> I can look it up.. your program is in German syntax which is not what was usually used in the US.. Non-German syntax used I's for inputs, Q's for outputs, etc.. Where exactly do you see the LAE=....
[21:19:58] <DaViruz> top right corner
[21:20:16] <DaViruz> it's the same on every page, with a different number
[21:21:54] <Dave911> Isn't that the page number?
[21:23:16] <DaViruz> the page number is bottom right
[21:23:20] <DaViruz> "BLNR"
[21:23:32] <DaViruz> each block has it's own LAE-number
[21:23:44] <DaViruz> and if the block is longer than one page it gets more "BLNR" numbers
[21:24:00] <DaViruz> but the LAE numbers seems non-incremental
[21:25:01] <Dave911> I think that might be a checksum actually ... if you do a directory on the blocks I think the LAE= is next to the block.
[21:27:24] <Dave911> You really need a copy of the S5 quick reference guide ...
[21:27:47] <DaViruz> sounds like it, i'm gussing it's available from siemens?
[21:28:03] <DaViruz> i have to say both sinumerik and s5 is incredibly well documented
[21:32:42] <Dave911> http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?query=S5+quick+reference+guide&func=cslib.cssearch&content=adsearch%2Fadsearch.aspx&lang=en&siteid=cseus&objaction=cssearch&searchinprim=&nodeid99=&x=0&y=0
[21:33:03] <Dave911> That is the Step5 manual..
[21:33:18] <Dave911> Probably more than you want to know... ;-)
[21:34:23] <Dave911> The S5 equipment is getting pretty old and Siemens really doesn't want to support it ... but they made so much of it and it is quite durable equipment.. that it lives and lives ..
[21:35:35] <Dave911> If you google "Siemens support" and then do a search on CNC you will get even more info.. The Siemens website is huge
[21:36:37] <alex_joni> http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/dcaf17d8-b970-4207-94d3-51abe819fdc7.jpg
[21:37:00] <Dave911> The checksums will probably not be very useful.. if you insert a space in an STL program it still functions fine but the checksum changes...
[21:37:15] <DaViruz> :(
[21:37:54] <DaViruz> i sent a mail to busch, the machine manufacturer
[21:37:55] <Dave911> Yep... this is going to be tedious..
[21:38:11] <DaViruz> i'm guessing they want to send a service guy or something like that..
[21:38:18] <DaViruz> at $200/hr
[21:38:25] <DaViruz> plus travel from germany
[21:38:31] <Dave911> Isn't that only fair .. ;-)
[21:38:54] <DaViruz> they should be paying me for putting vital programming in volatile RAM
[21:39:07] <DaViruz> :-(
[21:39:19] <andypugh> OCR must be worth a try.
[21:39:30] <andypugh> It might take longer, but will be more interesting
[21:40:04] <Dave911> What model PLC do you have? Is it a card in the CNC rack?
[21:40:15] <DaViruz> i have no idea :/
[21:40:44] <DaViruz> the machine is 100km away, but i'll be moving it to my place soon
[21:40:44] <Dave911> It should have a part number like ... 6ES5-942-......
[21:41:09] <DaViruz> i took a couple of pictures of the SW VERSION and HW version screens
[21:41:11] <DaViruz> maybe it's in there
[21:42:05] <Dave911> Perhaps the machine maker can just send you the last files loaded and save you a lot of pain..
[21:43:05] <DaViruz> that's what i'm hoping
[21:43:22] <DaViruz> that way i'll get the machine data files as well
[21:44:21] <Dave911> Siemens will support some pretty old stuff in the US still, but the cost is significant. I think they are >$200 per hour for service calls now.
[21:45:37] <Dave911> I had an old Siemens 880T CNC on my lathe and they wanted over $4K to fix one board that I knew was bad... The rack had over 20 cards in it.. I took the hint and ripped it all out.
[21:45:44] <DaViruz> i'd easily be willing to pay a couple of hundred bucks to get this machine running, but i'm guessing their hands are equally tied without the machine makers specific stuff?
[21:45:58] <DaViruz> ouch.
[21:46:37] <DaViruz> http://daviruz.meeep.net/buschcncnf1/DSC_0109.jpg
[21:46:38] <Dave911> Yes, you really need to get the files from the guys who setup the machine. Siemens doesn't keep track of OEM's installation and setup files..
[21:46:39] <DaViruz> no joy there
[21:47:42] <Dave911> Hey .. it even says battery alarm.. ;-)
[21:48:00] <DaViruz> yeah :(
[21:48:39] <DaViruz> i wonder what would happen if i wrote a bare minimum plc program that would just report OK to the sinumerik
[21:48:48] <DaViruz> would i get jogging and spindle control?
[21:51:32] <Dave911> If you lost the machine setup files I doubt that you will be able to do much. If you just had the setup files you might be able to jog and spin the spindle.
[21:52:53] <DaViruz> i believe it is possible to figure those out though?
[21:53:02] <Dave911> The 810 is a pretty old control. Once you get into the controls that didn't have a letter at the end of the model - like the 840 etc you are into old controls territory.. I had a terrible time finding info on the 880T I had.
[21:53:25] <Dave911> You really need the CNC control manuals. Do you have those?
[21:53:54] <DaViruz> yeah
[21:54:00] <DaViruz> both in print and pdf
[21:54:57] <Dave911> You are really in pretty good shape then. If you can get the files from the mach maker even the better...
[21:56:01] <Dave911> Just need to work on it .. the Siemens manuals tend to be pretty good... sometime wordy.. but the info your need is probably in there someplace..
[21:57:07] <DaViruz> is the battery some kind of rechargable thingy?
[21:57:13] <DaViruz> or is it depleted permanently?
[21:57:22] <DaViruz> the sticker on the back said it was last replaced some time in 2001
[21:58:13] <Dave911> Most of them were lithium.. not rechargeable.. Does it look like a C size battery but shorter?
[21:58:40] <DaViruz> it's a square thingy
[21:58:53] <DaViruz> at least the back is, i never pulled it out
[21:59:25] <andypugh> I just saw a meteorite (it's Perseid time of year). Tomorrow night I am going to be on a ferry in the midle of the North Sea, so might get to see lots of them.
[21:59:35] <DaViruz> http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/shop/productprofile.asp?ProductGroupID=2026&Model=Sinumerik+810D+CCU+Battery&Brand=SIEMENS&DepartmentName=PLC+Batteries&DepartmentID=180
[21:59:39] <DaViruz> i'll be damned
[22:00:54] <andypugh> Need one posting over?
[22:02:01] <DaViruz> looks like they ship to sweden, but thanks anyway
[22:02:14] <andypugh> Much cheaper here.
[22:02:15] <andypugh> http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_cr1-2aa_lithium.htm?cr1-2aa_lithium,various%20manufacturers,CR1/2AA
[22:02:53] <andypugh> (With a few tag/wire options)
[22:03:26] <andypugh> And smallbatterycompany is run by an old friend of mine.
[22:03:28] <Dave911> Same battery as a 90U PLC.. those were pretty common way back when also ...
[22:04:30] <DaViruz> andypugh: oh, the one with axial wires would be nice
[22:05:07] <Dave911> BBL.. have to do some things before dinner..
[22:06:49] <DaViruz> maybe i'll just get one locally, they were only 50SEK (£4) for a VARTA 950mAh
[22:22:29] <DaViruz> Dave911: the printed stuff i have seems to reference two files
[22:22:46] <DaViruz> C16_7_ST.S5D which i assume is the plc source code thingy
[22:22:54] <DaViruz> and also a .SEQ file
[22:23:12] <DaViruz> the .SEQ seems to make out the most of the text
[22:23:24] <DaViruz> any idea what it is and if it's neccesary?
[22:38:14] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[23:09:21] <morfic> OT: know a good place for a cctv dvr system?
[23:31:59] <Jymmm> morfic: Depends on the quaity/features of cameras you want
[23:39:03] <morfic> home use, enough to see who steals stuff from our car, storage could be small,
[23:39:29] <morfic> FIFO type overwriting would be ok, i just need to cover "last night" :)
[23:41:59] <Dave911> DaViruz: The only file you really need is the .S5D file. How does it describe the SEQ file? I've seen those used different ways by different S5 packages. There were a number of software configuration tools besides Step5 that could be used to generate PLC code and documentation.
[23:42:33] <Dave911> I should say the only thing you really need is the S5D file for the PLC logic.... in most cases..
[23:42:52] <DaViruz> it basically consists of three columns: operand, symbol and comment
[23:43:44] <DaViruz> operand and symbol being identical (like E127.7 E127.7 5.- Achse in verdoppelung)
[23:45:26] <Dave911> OK.. then that is your symbols file. That is used to document the logic elements such as inputs, outputs and bits. Not needed for the machine to function.
[23:45:59] <DaViruz> great, that cuts labor in half or better
[23:46:45] <DaViruz> also, there is a sheet referencing all the blocks, OB1, PB1-37 and also a few blocks named FB**
[23:46:53] <DaViruz> but i have no sheets with FB blocks
[23:46:58] <DaViruz> any thoughts?