#emc | Logs for 2010-07-27

[00:04:40] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:04:51] <tyler> hey
[00:05:06] <tyler> tyler is now known as Guest95352
[00:05:43] <cradek> hi tyler
[00:07:05] <Guest95352> I have a netmos 9835 par board in my pci. ive done everything i could find ( lspci-v, try all those numbers, still nothing) i have it connected to a sound logic board. I tried a different computer running mach 3 and a par port on the mother board. (same wiring from b.o.b.) and it jogged fine. does anyone have any suggestions?
[00:07:16] <Guest95352> pc*
[00:07:24] <cradek> what emc version are you using?
[00:07:43] <Guest95352> let me boot it up right now 1 sec
[00:13:14] <Guest95352> i am r
[00:13:18] <Guest95352> i am running 2.3
[00:13:47] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.4
[00:14:13] <Guest95352> "base"
[00:14:19] <cradek> emc 2.4 knows how to find parallel ports for you. it asks the OS where they all are, and then stepconf will let you just pick one
[00:14:46] <cradek> so I recommend that you follow these instructions to update, then reboot, then run stepconf again
[00:18:39] <Guest95352> thank you i will i try that and let you know my results :)
[00:19:04] <Guest95352> sorry i didnt find that information anywhere, maybe i overlooked it though. thank you!
[00:20:07] <cradek> no problem, you're welcome
[00:20:08] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[00:20:33] <cradek> in the release notes there is a little mention of the parport changes, but not enough to make you guess that it might help you
[00:20:56] <cradek> do come back whether it works or not, I'll help further if not.
[00:24:17] <Guest95352> thanks again cradek i barely hooked up my pc to my ethernet, due to ubuntu not having wireless. i tried to installed my wireless drivers like on a later version of ubuntu but no luck. any guides for wireless or will it disturb emc?
[00:26:09] <cradek> my only advice is ethernet always works - if you're in a situation where you really need wireless, it's good to have one of these handy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270613460887
[00:26:49] <cradek> installing third-party drivers for a wireless dongle usually just ends up causing pain in an unmentionable area
[00:29:09] <Guest95352> yeah i get you. i just use an alfa card because of the long range from my modem. im sure was thinking about doing a router with tomato or something to help me out and that
[00:30:03] <cradek> I don't know much about that stuff - I still use wires except for the one laptop I carry around - wires sure do work nice
[00:31:38] <Guest95352> emc will not boot up with my onboard lan controller :/
[00:32:07] <cradek> yuck
[00:32:14] <cradek> you mean linux won't boot?
[00:32:21] <Guest95352> yeah
[00:32:24] <Guest95352> ubuntu wont
[00:32:45] <cradek> that's weird
[00:32:52] <Guest95352> is there a way to transfer the 2.4 with a thumbdrive?
[00:33:32] <cradek> not simply, because it will want to update some other packages too
[00:33:54] <cradek> not sure what to suggest. do you maybe have a pci ethernet card?
[00:34:39] <Guest95352> no i dont. i will have to get one i suppose
[00:34:40] <cradek> I have to run - hope you get it
[00:34:43] <cradek> bbl
[01:23:41] <|maxbots|> |maxbots| is now known as maxbots
[01:32:26] <Guest95352> does anyone know how to update emc 2.3 to 2.4 with a usb? i downloaded the files but it says i am missing python 2.5 numpy
[01:32:45] <alex_chally> is there any reason to get more then a gig of ram for my EMC box?
[01:51:59] <Guest95352> does anyone know how to update emc 2.3 to 2.4 with a usb? i downloaded the files but it says i am missing python 2.5 numpy
[02:14:40] <Guest95352> anyone there?
[02:16:02] <alex_chally> Guest95352, yes
[02:16:09] <alex_chally> although I don't have an answer to your question
[02:16:43] <Guest95352> Oh ok. thanks
[02:17:01] <alex_chally> Guest95352, all the americans are at dinner and it is 3am fro the brits
[02:17:02] <Guest95352> i tried compileing but it gives me a error
[02:17:21] <Guest95352> oh yes i didnt think of that
[02:17:29] <alex_chally> Guest95352, things will pick up here in about 6 or 7 hours for the euros, and the american nerds who spend all night here will be in in a few hours
[02:17:45] <Guest95352> lol thanks!
[02:21:23] <madsci44> alex_chally; You can do ok with a gig, I try to run with 2 if i can
[02:22:20] <alex_chally> madsci44, k
[02:22:32] <alex_chally> madsci44, was wondering if it was worth spending the extra... whole $15
[02:22:36] <madsci44> I have been meaning to examine memory use in very complex g-code files
[02:22:47] <madsci44> others here will know better than me tho
[02:23:19] <madsci44> i solved my correction issue yaay
[02:24:13] <alex_chally> madsci44, high five
[02:24:24] <madsci44> cant go wrong for $15 i would think
[02:24:29] <alex_chally> madsci44, if there is at all a question about it I am going to get 2
[02:24:39] <alex_chally> no reason to cause problems where there should be none
[02:25:05] <madsci44> yeah
[02:39:00] <cradek> I have a vertical rotary indexing table that is controlled by servo motor and air. there is an air hookup in the back (opposite the working face) and "air vents" (marked) on top. What is the air supposed to do?
[02:46:58] <madsci44> maybe either locks or releases a brake?
[02:48:57] <cradek> it does turn by hand without the air (not too easily, but it's probably sat for years)
[02:49:09] <cradek> very true it might engage a brake
[02:49:42] <cradek> the position feedback is fairly coarse/gross. maybe it has tapered locks of some kind that locks it exactly in position
[02:51:06] <cradek> I know it's obvious that I should hook up air and see what happens... but I haven't yet
[02:53:50] <madsci44> only other thing i could imagine is to use the air as a positioning bearing or something - if its very fancy
[02:54:15] <cradek> I don't know how fancy it is because I didn't buy it :-)
[02:54:22] <madsci44> :-)
[02:54:23] <cradek> it's old
[02:54:26] <foxtrot> i wonder how crappy itd be if I had a ULN2003 driving one of my motors, so X and Z would be bipolars at 2A and Y would be a bipolar running in unipolar at .5A
[02:54:37] <cradek> foxtrot: crappy
[02:55:26] <madsci44> my accumulator works great - i managed it with an edge trigger input to update the value
[02:55:42] <cradek> what are you doing?
[02:56:11] <madsci44> i had to find a way to compensate for drift in a machine where the thc takes over the Z axis during plasma cutting
[02:56:37] <cradek> ah, sounds weird
[02:56:40] <madsci44> the circuit that returns the Z axis back to position is not functioning so I came up with a software fix
[02:56:51] <madsci44> yeah very..
[02:56:58] <cradek> so Z ends up out of position when (something) is done?
[02:57:23] <madsci44> yes the torch height control tracks the material surface according to the arc voltage as it traverses
[02:57:43] <cradek> neat
[02:57:59] <madsci44> done in hardware axis has no idea if it ended up a bit higher or lower and the error accumulates in the Z
[02:58:46] <madsci44> so since i didnt have count inputs available (i would have to go there to wire it physically) I used the probe as a reference, and added a second stepgen to offset the Z invisibly after each cut
[02:58:58] <madsci44> that way the error doesnt accumulate
[02:59:00] <cradek> aw jeez
[02:59:17] <cradek> glad you could fix it - sounds like a swirl
[02:59:44] <madsci44> swirl?
[03:00:03] <madsci44> definitely a hack job but at least it will be reliable till i can get down there
[03:00:06] <cradek> swirl is kind of like clusterfuck, but polite
[03:00:21] <madsci44> ah yeah that applies :)
[03:01:15] <madsci44> im going to make a feedback loop and have EMC do the THC action entirely
[03:01:41] <madsci44> soon as I can run a voltage sense input.. then i can do it properly
[03:01:57] <cradek> do you have a scheme for the adc into hal?
[03:02:51] <madsci44> im still debating different ways to do it partially because im in the learning curve also with hal
[03:03:15] <madsci44> I was thinking something like a servo loop
[03:03:32] <cradek> yeah seems like pid would definitely be involved
[03:03:45] <cradek> otherwise it'd just oscillate
[03:05:20] <madsci44> yeah - theres a fairly comfortable margin it can remain at between corrections up or down, so without getting the actual ADC value I could possibly work with over/under/ok signals
[03:06:15] <madsci44> other thought was to wire the voltage sense to behave like an encoder
[03:06:32] <cradek> what's the actual hardware give you for arc voltage sensing?
[03:07:13] <madsci44> circuit on it now is based on a comparator, the arc voltage is fed to it through an optoisolator
[03:08:16] <madsci44> as the comparator detects above or below the window - it triggers an oscillator, with a vco ramp to generate accelerate/step/decelerate pulses to the Z axis drive
[03:09:10] <madsci44> tracks very well, and the ramp works well not only for the mechanical aspect but it never over or undershoots
[03:11:54] <madsci44> the other way was just to leave the existing hardware loop and put a counter on the position changes during the cut cycle where THC is controlling Z, and at the end of the cycle after retract simply correct the position back to where axis thinks it is
[03:18:23] <ries> what's the difference between G61 and G61.1, I am looking here http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G40
[03:19:57] <ries> sorry, here : http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64:
[03:26:08] <ries> sorry for the DC
[03:30:55] <madsci44> I think for G61.1 its about the complete stop, to end up exactly hitting an angular change. probably costs much more time.
[03:31:05] <madsci44> ive never tried exact stop mode tho
[03:31:15] <cradek> I think G61 and G61.1 do the same thing
[03:32:15] <ries> it's a bit confusing, reading the doc...
[03:32:21] <madsci44> why do they exist seperately?
[03:32:29] <ries> may be they do the same on emc
[03:32:49] <ries> madsci44: I was reading that g61.2 does exists on some controllers, it controls the feedrate on corners
[03:33:08] <cradek> madsci44: tradition!
[03:33:30] <madsci44> aka backwards compatibility i guess in that sense
[03:35:00] <ries> this is what the doc states : Program G61 to put the machining center into exact path mode, G61.1 for exact stop mode
[03:36:48] <cradek> nevertheless I'm pretty sure they do the same thing
[03:37:12] <ries> ok...
[03:37:22] <ries> thanks for the explanation
[03:38:15] <ries> Some other documents state 'Shape correction control mode' !?!?!
[03:39:46] <ries> night!
[03:40:19] <cradek> we have tolerance mode with G64 P(tol)
[03:40:48] <ries> cradek: yup... I was just curious about 61.
[03:41:02] <ries> 61.1 and 61.. I use G64 P... a lot
[03:41:04] <cradek> it gives exact stop at every move
[03:41:43] <tom3p> way OT but cool, victorian robot photoshopped twisted history steampunk and fun BOILERPLATE http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/book.html
[04:08:13] <theorbtwo> theorbtwo is now known as 84XAAPHJA
[04:12:48] <eztam> hello folks
[04:20:22] <fragalot_> fragalot_ is now known as Guest56123
[04:20:59] <eztam> hello
[04:23:40] <alex_chally> wow, netsplit
[04:23:45] <madsci44> holy netsplit
[04:23:52] <madsci44> yeah what you said hah
[04:24:17] <madsci44> like 4 in a row
[04:24:53] <MrSunshine__> is there any way to precision test and calibrate a mill without stuff like those measuring clocks? :)
[04:25:12] <alex_chally> MrSunshine__, measuring clocks?
[04:25:19] <alex_chally> do you mean a dial indicator?
[04:25:20] <madsci44> dial indicators?
[04:25:47] <MrSunshine__> http://www.torafors.com/Indikatorklocka%2064824.jpg
[04:25:49] <MrSunshine__> yeah
[04:25:51] <MrSunshine__> dial indicator :P
[04:26:10] <alex_chally> MrSunshine__, the short answer is no, the long answer is, if you are clever
[04:26:17] <MrSunshine__> hehe =)
[04:26:36] <alex_chally> are you just calculating backlash?
[04:26:37] <MrSunshine__> cutting alot of square blocks or something to and measure it by hand maybe? :)
[04:26:41] <MrSunshine__> alex_chally, aye
[04:26:53] <alex_chally> mrsun, why don't you spend $10 on a cheap indicator?
[04:26:56] <Jymmm> or just spend the $20 and get a cheapy
[04:27:02] <alex_chally> it is a very very useful tool
[04:27:06] <MrSunshine__> alex_chally, live in a small town .. takes a week to get stuff here :(
[04:27:20] <alex_chally> mrsun, do you have nice calipers?
[04:27:27] <madsci44> do you have measuring clamps? (micrometer)
[04:28:00] <Jymmm> wait, you talking dial calipers or a test dial indicator?
[04:28:02] <MrSunshine__> haha, well all i got at home atm is a digital caliper havent bought much precision measuring stuff yet :(
[04:28:57] <eztam> i got such an indicator
[04:29:02] <eztam> works fine for me
[04:29:04] <alex_chally> mrsun, you could travel in x a direct direction (to take up lash) then plunge, take a cut of a known distance (say 1") in ths same direction you were going before you plunged, then lift up, move over in Y, plunge and then cut in the other direction the same amount in X
[04:29:22] <alex_chally> the deviation in length of the two cuts should be (roughly) your backlash
[04:29:31] <alex_chally> but that adds all kinds of factors
[04:29:40] <eztam> woww good idea alex
[04:29:43] <alex_chally> flex, tool runout, lead error
[04:29:55] <alex_chally> those are all going to be added to your backlash
[04:30:03] <madsci44> tool diameter cant be counted on either
[04:30:07] <alex_chally> yeah
[04:30:20] <eztam> with the dial indicator thing i found out 2 things
[04:30:23] <alex_chally> in other words, you can use that method to get close, but order the indicator any way so that you can do it for real
[04:30:28] <eztam> 1. the backlash itself
[04:30:52] <eztam> 2. the leadscrew pitch is different as its in the machine manual
[04:31:32] <alex_chally> mrsun, where are you at?
[04:32:09] <MrSunshine__> alex_chally, where im at?
[04:32:19] <alex_chally> what is your location
[04:32:26] <madsci44> another way so you dont have to worry about the tool, is to approach and finish cut a surface, taking off a specific amount, then approach to the same position from the opposite direction, take half the surface, and you can measure the difference
[04:32:35] <alex_chally> i am interested in where you could be that you can not even get a dial indicator mail order in a few days
[04:32:48] <MrSunshine__> alex_chally, malung in sweden :P
[04:32:55] <madsci44> (lock between cuts so your backlash isnt taken up by the cutting forces
[04:33:21] <MrSunshine__> alex_chally, well i can if i find a good place to buy it at =)
[04:33:25] <alex_chally> madsci44, I kinda like your idea better
[04:33:34] <MrSunshine__> closest is like 150 km away that i know of
[04:33:43] <alex_chally> it is a little less imediate intuitive, but I have a feeling more accurate
[04:36:16] <MrSunshine__> im gonna check with the local "iron chop" if they have but usaly i get to pay 3x the amount that i have to pay if i order ...
[04:36:50] <alex_chally> mrsun, maybe ebay or an auction site?
[04:41:40] <MrSunshine__> this mill realy have to start paying for itself soon :P
[04:41:47] <MrSunshine__> starts to get realy expensive =)
[04:42:23] <eztam> i got one of those http://cgi.ebay.de/WABECO-Magnet-Messstativ-Messuhr-Messuhrhalter-/140428380675?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item20b22f0a03
[04:43:04] <alex_chally> mrsun, you are going to find that at least one dial indicator is an absolute necessity, and you might even want two
[04:43:30] <alex_chally> especially if you are doing tapers on lathe..
[04:52:54] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[04:56:15] <MrSunshine__> gah
[04:56:28] <MrSunshine__> germans or whatever ... learn english .. use english stuff ...
[04:56:49] <MrSunshine__> been playing games that had to wait for french and german people to get language patches before they released patches
[04:56:51] <eztam> inces or what ?
[04:56:59] <MrSunshine__> eztam, no ... language
[04:57:08] <MrSunshine__> cant understand a single word from the ebay.de
[04:57:14] <eztam> hihi
[04:57:47] <eztam> where are u from mr ?
[04:57:56] <MrSunshine__> sweden
[04:58:00] <eztam> ah ok
[04:59:06] <eztam> if you want i can send you an indicator dial with base
[05:00:15] <MrSunshine__> gonna check with the local store today first
[05:01:01] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[05:01:50] <eztam> mr: good idea
[05:03:19] <madsci44> those single action holder arms are available pretty cheap now too - in my experience they save much time and effort positioning the indicator
[05:03:51] <eztam> 100% agree
[05:05:26] <alex_chally> anyone else here follow competitive starcraft?
[05:05:32] <alex_chally> well, really sc2 now
[05:06:51] <eztam> starcraft ? a game ?
[05:07:46] <the_wench> fragalot: archivist said dont forget to flip along x axis
[05:08:50] <alex_chally> eztam, yeah, it is a PC game
[05:09:25] <alex_chally> eztam, after 12 years or so the second one just came out
[05:09:36] <alex_chally> * alex_chally is watching a live launch party tourny
[05:09:37] <alex_chally> http://www.ustream.tv/day9tv
[05:30:42] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[05:31:47] <MrSunshine__> gah cant find any nice v-carving software that doesnt cost :(
[05:50:59] <MrSunshine__> find lots of engraving software that outlines ttf fonts
[05:51:03] <MrSunshine__> but i dont want an outline
[05:51:23] <MrSunshine__> i want it to cut in the "middle" of it and differential depths etc so it gets thicker and thinner etc
[05:54:08] <fragalot> MrSunshine__: I've only found commercial software for that from Vectric
[05:54:20] <fragalot> it's really reasonably priced compared to everything else in my opinion
[05:54:52] <MrSunshine__> fragalot, aye but i dont have any left over money i can throw around :/
[05:55:02] <fragalot> I know the feeling
[05:55:21] <fragalot> but i've spent a month looking for freeware V-carving software and couldn't find anything.
[05:55:33] <fragalot> vectric was the cheapest I could find
[05:55:46] <MrSunshine__> is piracy realy a crime if you intend to buy the software? ;P
[05:56:15] <fragalot> piracy isn't theft.
[05:56:35] <fragalot> theft means taking it away, piracy makes a copy
[05:56:36] <fragalot> :P
[07:21:08] <alex_joni> Jymmm: still around?
[07:21:16] <Jymmm> yep
[07:21:24] <alex_joni> will get you a link right now
[07:21:31] <Jymmm> k
[07:22:39] <alex_joni> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Eneas,+Timisoara,+Romania&ll=45.449775,21.279659&spn=0.056058,0.132093&t=h&z=14
[07:22:43] <alex_joni> somewhere in that area
[07:22:48] <alex_joni> on the 58B road
[07:23:09] <Jymmm> alex_joni: So within Romania "somewhere"?
[07:24:17] <alex_joni> yeah
[07:24:24] <alex_joni> it waws exactly here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Eneas,+Timisoara,+Romania&ll=45.415014,21.466282&spn=0.001753,0.004128&t=h&z=19
[07:24:40] <Jymmm> ah ok, cool.
[07:24:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni: My gf says it's an awesome photo
[07:25:29] <archivist> * archivist cannot believe Jymmm has a gf
[07:27:09] <mrsun> anyone got the ability to generate some text toolpaths for me? :P
[07:27:11] <mrsun> for vgrooving =)
[07:27:25] <mrsun> just need a quick sample to test how stuff works =)
[07:27:38] <Jymmm> mrsun: what angle?
[07:27:46] <mrsun> 60 deg
[07:27:54] <Jymmm> width?
[07:28:11] <mrsun> 11mm wide at widest point if thats what you mean ? :)
[07:28:19] <Jymmm> of the tool
[07:28:29] <mrsun> aye 11mm
[07:28:39] <Jymmm> inches
[07:28:42] <mrsun> ough :)
[07:28:56] <mrsun> 0.433
[07:29:01] <mrsun> inches
[07:29:02] <mrsun> =)
[07:29:12] <Jymmm> ok, how big?
[07:29:57] <mrsun> max width is about 7.87 inches and max height is 5.7 inches
[07:30:09] <Jymmm> max depth?
[07:30:44] <Jymmm> ok, I'll make it in mm
[07:31:25] <mrsun> hmm, maybe like 5mm max depth so i can try in plexiglass also :P
[07:32:41] <alex_joni> mrsun: tried truetype-tracer?
[07:32:58] <alex_joni> Jymmm: thanks
[07:32:58] <mrsun> alex_chally, it only outlines as far as ive got it working
[07:33:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni: =)
[07:44:21] <mrsun> Jymmm, hows it going? :)
[07:44:30] <Jymmm> mrsun: can you do 90 degree?
[07:44:39] <mrsun> only have a 60 degree bit
[07:45:48] <Jymmm> mrsun: tool diameter?
[07:46:01] <mrsun> 11mm
[07:46:02] <mrsun> =)
[07:55:52] <Jymmm> mrsun: http://filebin.ca/dhybfo/MtSun.tap
[07:58:14] <mrsun> thanks =)
[07:58:32] <mrsun> runtime 13 seconds :P
[07:58:32] <mrsun> nice :P
[08:05:31] <alex_joni> Jymmm (or anyone else): you wouldn't happen to know/have some software to design furniture?
[08:05:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wants to build a desk
[08:09:45] <mrsun> Jymmm, what is the zero point in that program ?
[08:10:06] <mrsun> top of material ? :)
[08:10:12] <Jymmm> load it in emc and dry run it =)
[08:10:43] <Jymmm> TOM yes
[08:51:02] <MattyMatt> alex_joni, what do you mean "design furniture"?
[08:51:49] <foxtrot> hello matty
[08:52:09] <MattyMatt> do you really mean "a design for a desk, in a file format a CAM program will read"?
[08:52:13] <alex_chally> gah, i thought he had them with those templars
[08:52:15] <alex_chally> errr
[08:52:17] <alex_chally> wrong window
[08:56:41] <mrsun> http://www.imagedonkey.com/show.php?img=32513_DSC00009.JPG.html =)
[08:56:53] <mrsun> Jymmm, what software do you use to generate the paths ?
[09:15:44] <alex_chally> mrsun, how did you end up calculating your backlash?
[09:15:58] <alex_chally> looks like you got it good enough for engraving work
[09:16:28] <mrsun> alex_chally, havent done it yet =)
[09:16:54] <mrsun> i guess a test of different lines and measuring how they are affected could be good enough =)
[09:17:08] <mrsun> alex_chally, do not have much backlash realy ... circles get a little bump on them tho
[09:21:10] <mrsun> but i think the cutter i use isnt good for acrylic
[09:21:21] <mrsun> it doesnt realy have cutting edges totaly all the way out
[09:21:31] <mrsun> worked better in mdf =)
[09:43:08] <alex_joni> MattyMatt: nope, design a desk in a 3D environment
[09:43:24] <alex_joni> afterwards I want to cut out the sheets, and build it
[09:43:40] <alex_joni> I doubt CAM helps here much (except if I had a really big router to cut out pieces)
[09:43:40] <MattyMatt> anything like blender would do then?
[09:43:47] <alex_joni> I'm doing it in Alibre
[09:43:58] <alex_joni> but there are specialized softwares out there
[09:44:06] <alex_joni> that help with joint design, hinges & such
[09:56:26] <MattyMatt> when I built a desk, I started with the basics. a top and lugs. I never got any further really :0
[09:56:41] <MattyMatt> top & legs, :)
[09:57:56] <alex_joni> heh
[12:12:12] <mrsun> ough takes long to mill wood when you have to do it all in one direction
[12:12:27] <mrsun> 272minutes for a picture that is 140x150mm :P
[12:14:13] <alex_joni> ouch
[12:19:21] <ichudov_> On my Bridgeport Interact mill, I made the spindle (VFD) controlled by EMC. So when I press F9, the spindle runs and stops when I click stop spindle. However, M3 does not start spindle, any idea why? I am a little ignorant of G codes
[12:24:09] <cradek> ichudov_: program a speed, like S1000 M3
[12:24:37] <ichudov_> I see. So my first command is s1000 m3 and my second command is m3?
[12:24:47] <ichudov_> I do not have a speed control no the VFD
[12:24:52] <ichudov_> "on the VFD"
[12:24:56] <cradek> the default speed is S0 which makes it stay off
[12:25:04] <ichudov_> I got it. Thanks cradek.
[12:25:08] <cradek> no you do not need to program m3 twice
[12:25:13] <ichudov_> I will go and check it right now
[12:25:13] <cradek> but you need to set S nonzero
[12:25:18] <ichudov_> got it
[12:25:30] <alex_joni> S1 M3 is enough
[12:25:39] <ichudov_> Got it
[12:25:58] <ichudov_> will go check it out, see you guys
[12:26:02] <cradek> does not hurt to program the speed you really want. later when you get speed control your programs will be right.
[12:26:56] <cradek> my BOSS8 did not have speed control, but it showed the S word on the screen to tell you how to set the varispeed manually
[12:27:00] <cradek> good morning alex
[12:27:36] <cradek> why am I here? I should be going to work.
[12:33:43] <renesis> fuck work real mfkrs take money from the gov and learn (!)
[12:33:59] <renesis> think im gonna go work early today
[12:34:08] <renesis> like wtf its 5:30a why am i up =\
[12:38:40] <alex_joni> hi chris
[13:56:31] <mrsun> hmm would 4.2A insted of 4A generate ALOT more heat in stepper motors?
[13:56:40] <mrsun> thing is that i have a selection of like 3.5A or 4.2A
[13:56:43] <mrsun> closest to my motor
[13:58:47] <pcw_home> 4.2 vs 4 = about 10% more dissipation (sitting still)
[13:59:12] <JT-Work> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[13:59:37] <mrsun> pcw_home, sitting stil is not a problem as the drivers goes half current
[13:59:40] <mrsun> problem is when they run
[14:00:06] <ichudov> My Bridgeport Interact mill has a varispeed drive AND a VFD. Does it make any sense to add any functionality to EMC to set speed or is this not really necessary. Just curious.
[14:00:45] <cradek> ichudov: you have more power if you run the motor at nominal speed and use the varispeed for speed control.
[14:00:53] <JT-Work> unless you have an ATC your going to be there to change speeds any way
[14:01:36] <cradek> ichudov: if the motor has a cooling fan on its shaft, that's another good reason to run it at 50/60 Hz
[14:01:57] <mrsun> ahh i can turn down the voltage some
[14:02:00] <pcw_home> mrsun: Are your motors mounted yet (step motor often depend on conduction cooling somewhat)
[14:02:06] <mrsun> according to those calculations im at the maximum voltage
[14:02:21] <mrsun> pcw_home, placed on the mill
[14:02:33] <mrsun> ill turn down the voltage a slight bit and see if it gets better
[14:02:55] <mrsun> they get sohot i can hold them for like 4 - 5 seconds then it starts to burn .. might not be a problem yet but i do not dare to leave the mill running =)
[14:03:39] <mrsun> i was thinking fans if it didnt get better :P
[14:04:41] <pcw_home> Voltage should not matter much with a current controlled driver. If they are too hot I'd chose the 3.5 amp setting
[14:04:43] <pcw_home> of maybe add a heatsink
[14:04:57] <mrsun> pcw_home, but that would lose me alot of strenght wouldnt it? :)
[14:05:25] <mrsun> and as there is no ballscrews and just "slides" that the mill goes on i need all the strenght i can get =)
[14:07:18] <pcw_home> about 20% lower torque (but about 40% less heat) If thats too much then fans or heatsink (or dont touch the motors maybe they have 180C insulation)
[14:07:25] <ichudov> cradek, regarding varispeed: I agree that varispeed is better than varying frequency. But my question is, is there any benefit to changing speed programmatically. Thanks
[14:09:34] <cradek> ichudov: like JT said, you're changing tools manually anyway. Do you ever need more than one speed per tool? Maybe faster speed for a finishing pass? If so maybe programmatic control would be nice.
[14:10:00] <cradek> If not I can't see any advantage that outweighs the benefits of running the motor at nominal speed
[14:11:48] <cradek> if you get a spindle encoder (for rigid tapping) you could use it for feedback and have EMC control the varispeed. the only problem with varispeed is you have to start at the same speed you last stopped...
[14:13:20] <cradek> (so if loading a big or unbalanced tool you'd want to change to the slow speed before turning off the spindle for the tool change)
[14:25:12] <cradek> pcw_home: do you think it will work to use the hm2 encoder velocity (out a 7i33 dac) as a tach signal to a velocity mode amp?
[14:26:06] <cradek> pcw_home: I have a bogus tach (pretty sure anyway), and with the interest on the list in those fanuc setups with no tachs, I'm tempted to try it
[14:27:32] <pcw_home> Well its worth a try, Will your drive adjust to a +-10V FS tachometer input?
[14:29:53] <cradek> I hope the knobs will turn far enough. it has coarse and fine tach gain controls.
[14:30:39] <cradek> but you're right - I bet it's MUCH more than +- 10 now
[14:30:45] <ichudov> cradek: I will definitely put encoder on the spindle for rigid tapping. It should be easy actually. I can, relatively easily, put encoder on the varispeed too. My varispeed is pneumatically controlled and I could mount an encoder on it and even a home switch so I could home the varispeed.
[14:31:19] <pcw_home> You may have to up the sample rate to get reasonable velocity feedback bandwidth
[14:31:21] <cradek> ichudov: sweet. don't forget a sensor on the gear selector lever too, so it knows the speed (and direction)
[14:32:10] <cradek> pcw_home: I don't think I can go much faster on the servo cycle. I have a complex ladder.
[14:32:14] <ichudov> cradek: Does EMC support gear selector (changing forward and reverse internally to adjust for reversal in low gear)?
[14:32:18] <cradek> (and the machine is not super fast)
[14:32:29] <cradek> ichudov: you can definitely handle that in the HAL layer
[14:33:10] <ichudov> Awesome. This would be a super duper machine then, with rigid tapping, automatic speed adjustment etc.
[14:33:57] <cradek> emc fwd -> xor with low gear sensor -> vfd fwd
[14:33:58] <pcw_home> Ladder? I thought modern PCs were infinitely fast....
[14:33:59] <cradek> ... etc
[14:34:10] <ichudov> Great cradek
[14:35:05] <cradek> pcw_home: heh, mine isn't very infinite
[14:35:30] <ichudov> Can I have a delay betweel "stop spindle" and "apply brake". Similarly, when startng spindle, can I have a small delay, so that brake would have time to disengage.
[14:35:41] <cradek> pcw_home: currently one 7i33 on P2 of the first 5i20. I think the second 7i33 goes on P2 of the second 5i20. I will have to rearrange some IO.
[14:35:58] <cradek> ichudov: sure, you can do that in the HAL layer
[14:36:16] <ichudov> How would I do it. I wanted to work on this tonight
[14:36:37] <cradek> ichudov: you can use timers in ladder if you are using ladder, or otherwise use the timedelay component
[14:36:58] <ichudov> cradek: I guess I have to read up on it.
[14:37:10] <ichudov> my brake is pneumatic and takes maybe 0.4 seconds to operate
[14:37:56] <cradek> ichudov: my BOSS8 control would brake immediately when turning the spindle off. I think it was for safety.
[14:39:05] <ichudov> I would prefer to do regular braking with VFD. I already have my mill set up so that on ESTOP, the brake is engaged right away. But for just regular running and stopping I would prefer to brake electronically so that I do not wear brake pads. Hence my question
[14:39:46] <cradek> the vfd does not need you to do a delay in HAL then, does it? it knows when to brake itself.
[14:40:23] <cradek> do you have a QC30 spindle?
[14:41:14] <cradek> oh I think I see what you mean - you want the VFD to stop the spindle with a braking resistor, THEN engage the pneumatic physical brake
[14:41:50] <cradek> that is more gentle but you still have the hard brake to help you change tools (much easier to run the QC if it has that brake on)
[14:41:55] <ichudov> VFD does not need any delay
[14:42:04] <ichudov> If I turn off the RUN signal, VFD starts braking
[14:42:35] <ichudov> As you said, I need the hardware brake for tool changing only, aside from emergency
[14:42:54] <cradek> I understand now
[14:43:11] <ichudov> Normally with VFD, my spindle stops in 1.3 seconds.
[14:43:38] <cradek> if you add any delay when turning on the spindle, be sure you have a correct spindle-atspeed signal going back to EMC so it knows to wait for the spindle to turn on and spin up.
[14:44:37] <ichudov> But I guess I can always say M3 and then dwell for a second, right? Or when stopping spindle, I could say M5 and then dwell for 1.5 seconds then apply brake. Right
[14:44:49] <ichudov> So I can handle it in G-code
[14:45:14] <cradek> you could, but then if you abort the program, or run the spindle in manual mode, it won't do the same thing
[14:45:22] <cradek> better to handle it in HAL
[14:45:27] <ichudov> I see.
[14:45:48] <ichudov> How would I set timedelay for brake
[14:46:21] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/timedelay.9.html
[14:46:28] <cradek> here is the component
[14:47:03] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_emc2hal.html
[14:47:14] <cradek> here is the documentation for emc's interface to hal
[14:47:26] <cradek> notice the various motion.spindle-* pins
[14:48:08] <cradek> those are what EMC requests the machine to do. you can honor them any way you like by inserting time delays between those pins and your hardware, etc.
[14:49:01] <ichudov> Got it. Will try tonight. I saved your answer.
[14:49:30] <ichudov> thanks cradek
[14:49:38] <cradek> you can use halmeter to study the behavior of the motion.spindle-* pins that are available to you, and then think about how you want the hardware to respond to those requests.
[14:50:29] <cradek> welcome
[14:51:16] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[14:54:33] <cradek> pcw_home: does the 7i33TA come with the screw strips, or do I have to get them separately? (I have only used the old style T, so far)
[15:02:14] <pcw_home> Yes screw terminals are included with TA models
[15:17:24] <pcw_home> Want to try a 7I48? It would save pins but EMC support needs testing/debugging
[16:00:06] <cradek> pcw_home: studying 7i48 manual now...
[16:06:14] <pcw_home> Jepler made a patch for it that seemed to be OK but I only tested it on the bench (encoders and PWM outputs individually tested)
[16:06:16] <cradek> pcw_home: I need X Y Z command, Y tach, spindle command, A command. I see that's 6. Many thoughts: I'd like to help test a new product - I'm not too keen on rewiring all the working stuff - I have plenty of spare plugs available (4/6 in use now) - if I had 8 dacs I could do fake tach for all of XYZ if it works great
[16:06:41] <cradek> duh - I guess nothing says I have to take out the existing 7i33 does it
[16:07:54] <cradek> ok cool - if you want me to try it I'd be happy to. I'll use it for my A axis when I get that going too (soon I hope.)
[16:10:25] <cradek> I bet I have one of the few multi-5i20 emc machines
[16:13:12] <cradek> are the muxed encoders still all sampled at the same time and each read on every servo cycle?
[16:16:03] <pcw_home> Yes, they are muxed at about 6 MHz IICRC
[16:17:55] <pcw_home> The 7I48 is also different in that it uses up/down PWM mode (instead of PWM/DIR)
[16:19:08] <cradek> ok, looks like that's just a different pwmgen.xx.output-type
[16:20:00] <cradek> hm but there is no pdm up/down? I've been using type 3 (pdm/dir) on 7i33
[16:21:04] <pcw_home> 7I48 wants PWM (it has more filtering) so thats OK
[16:21:30] <cradek> ok, looks like type 2 then
[16:28:45] <pcw_home> I think there have been some driver changes since the patch so there may be some bugs
[16:28:47] <pcw_home> 7I48 uses firmware that has a global pin, which is a new feature (the mux select output pin)
[16:28:48] <pcw_home> so the driver has to deal with it properly
[16:35:37] <cradek> I'm pretty sure I'm using the stock firmware that jepler built. would he need to make a new set?
[16:37:55] <pcw_home> Maybe, I don't think there's a 7I33+7I48 config
[16:41:04] <cradek> I could easily have 7i33 on one card and 7i48 on the other (in fact that's the most natural thing for me to do, since the card with the 7i33 is full)
[16:42:38] <pcw_home> I also made some source changes (well a lot of changes for resolver/ sserial/ twiddler/ daq)
[16:42:40] <pcw_home> on the 7I48 pinout I changed the mux out's instance number so that it should be automatically enabled
[16:42:41] <pcw_home> regardless of the # of encoders enabled (First is 0 second is 6)
[16:42:43] <pcw_home> Well theres a SV12config for 2 7I48s which should be OK
[18:05:25] <elmo40> look what I just picked up :) http://bayimg.com/GANnGaACO
[18:05:38] <elmo40> now I need to locate carriages for it :P
[18:06:36] <elmo40> 106" long pieces. They are used but who cares. I will use them for a plasma machine.
[18:45:04] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[19:00:43] <jay_> jay_ is now known as fjay
[19:12:17] <skunkworks_> KimK: ! how is it going?
[19:13:41] <KimK> Hi Sam! Not bad, back in town (Minneapolis) after being in Iowa over the weekend for a funeral. Good to be back.
[19:14:49] <KimK> skunkworks_: How are things with you, did I miss any breakthroughs?
[19:18:30] <skunkworks_> yeck. - No big breakthroughs.. dad has started making the x/z servo mounts... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/mount2.JPG
[19:35:16] <ichudov> Can I set up a "safety envelope" and tell the mill, that any cutter movement outside of rectangular area between (x1, y1, z1) and (x2, y2, z2) is forbidden? So I do not mill my vise and milling table due to typo?
[19:36:02] <cradek> we have soft limits, which are used for limiting axis travel so it does not hit the limit switches. there is no other kind of restriction on movement.
[19:39:02] <cradek> in general it's impossible to keep you from milling the table, because the knee position is not known and tools can be different lengths
[19:55:31] <spasticteapot> Does anyone know if concrete sticks to urethane resin?
[19:55:57] <archivist> ichudov, you need http://www.cgtech.com/uk/ to avoid machining the fixtures
[19:56:41] <ichudov> Can I set up temporary soft limits?
[19:56:42] <cradek> archivist: except for how that doesn't solve the problem of not knowing the tool length or knee position
[19:56:45] <archivist> but you have to empty your wallet
[19:56:51] <cradek> ichudov: unfortunately no
[19:57:04] <ichudov> OK, thanks
[19:57:33] <archivist> its does model fully including tooling cradek
[19:57:34] <cradek> archivist: the AXIS preview probably tells you a lot of what vericut can
[19:58:05] <cradek> archivist: I'm saying you can put a too-long tool in, or have an offset wrong
[19:58:31] <cradek> I have never seen/used vericut so I'll stop guessing what it can do
[19:58:53] <archivist> vericut is some serious stuff /me had a sales droid bashing his ear
[19:59:13] <archivist> even though I told him Im in the open source world
[19:59:51] <cradek> I pity them having to parse various flavors of gcode just like the black-box gcode interpreters
[20:00:13] <cradek> I bet that's an ongoing hellish struggle
[20:00:44] <archivist> yup the prices are beyond us mortals
[20:05:41] <spasticteapot> alex_joni: How goes the CNC machine?
[20:27:34] <alex_joni> spasticteapot: which one?
[20:33:22] <tomaw> [Global Notice] Hi, as you're no doubt aware some of our equipment is having connectivity issues. We're looking to resolve this presently. Appologies for the noise and thanks for using freenode!
[20:43:12] <Dave911> Spasticteapot: You mean pour concrete onto a Urethane resin coated surface and hope it sticks? I don't think so. I think Urethane will stick to concrete but not the other way around. Long ago, I used to use Epoxy paint between layers of concrete so the top layer could be broken off the bottom layer (floor layer) years later when a plant process area was demoed. Concrete doesn't...
[20:43:13] <Dave911> ...even stick very well to itself after it is cured. Hence all of the concrete bonding systems/additives available.
[20:44:20] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[20:44:24] <spasticteapot> Well, that's definitely interesting.
[20:44:39] <spasticteapot> Does it work the other way around?
[20:46:03] <isssy> hi all , are there ready package for rt kernel for ubuntu 10.04
[20:49:25] <spasticteapot> Dave911: Say, do you know if Bondo sticks to concrete?
[20:49:29] <spasticteapot> They claim it does.
[20:50:03] <spasticteapot> Sanding a big concrete ball smooth is going to be difficult. However, I figure if I give it a nice thick coat 'o Bondo, I can sand it down easily and give it whatever paint I like.
[20:50:35] <andypugh> spasticteapot: Making a Kugel?
[20:50:42] <spasticteapot> A what?
[20:50:45] <Dave911> I would think that Bondo would stick fine to Concrete - bondo is basically polyester resin with filler I believe.
[20:50:50] <spasticteapot> Like a noodle pudding?!?!?
[20:51:12] <spasticteapot> Dave911: It's listed as usable as a crack filler, but I'm hoping to use it in a body filler capacity.
[20:51:15] <andypugh> It's a popular german water feature, a big stone sphere floating on a hydrostatic bearing
[20:51:18] <spasticteapot> It should make my project MUCH easier.
[20:51:32] <Dave911> The stuff sticks pretty good to steel if you rough up the surface of course..
[20:51:33] <spasticteapot> Also a Jewish term for noodle puddings.
[20:51:39] <andypugh> isssy: Yes, and no.
[20:51:42] <spasticteapot> Mmm. Kugel.
[20:52:02] <spasticteapot> andypugh: Nah. Hoping to make some speakers.
[20:52:02] <spasticteapot> :)
[20:52:14] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugel_ball
[20:52:29] <Dave911> Concrete speakers!
[20:53:04] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[20:53:21] <spasticteapot> "There is no such thing as overkill. There is only "Open Fire!" and "Cover me, I need to reload!""
[20:54:32] <Dave911> Interesting.... I guess if you can make a boat out of concrete, why not speakers.. :-)
[20:56:07] <spasticteapot> Well, I theoretically could.
[20:56:18] <spasticteapot> If I could figure out how in the bloody blazes to make it actually work.
[20:56:22] <Dave911> Are you casting the concrete or using fiber reinforced concrete tile board?
[20:56:26] <spasticteapot> Casting.
[20:56:34] <spasticteapot> I don't know jack about casting concrete.
[20:56:50] <skunkworks_> there are a few people that have casted concrete milling machines
[20:57:05] <spasticteapot> Incidentally, it seems I'll also require some sort of fiber-reinforced concrete, as I need relatively thin (3/4" thick) walls.
[20:57:19] <skunkworks_> use chicken wire.
[20:57:29] <Dave911> Might want to look up "concrete vibrator".... otherwise I think you will have void issues.. :-)
[20:57:35] <spasticteapot> Dave911: Yah.
[20:57:52] <Dave911> Harbor Freight sells them cheap.
[20:57:55] <spasticteapot> One solution is to just mix it up to the consistency of cookie dough and manually place it in the mold.
[20:58:11] <spasticteapot> However, unless you do it very carefully, you lose the fiddly details.
[20:58:27] <spasticteapot> Another solution, which I like much better, is to pay someone else who knows what he's doing.
[20:59:16] <Dave911> Might want to explore using fibers to reinforce the concrete also.. fiberglass and polyester.. The concrete boat guys are a very creative bunch also.
[20:59:28] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[20:59:33] <spasticteapot> I didn't think about asking the boat guys.
[21:00:38] <Dave911> Ferro cement - but some of them don't use much ferro (iron wire etc) Also look into shotcrete - the stuff they use to line pools - as in swimming pools.
[21:01:56] <Dave911> Have you ever looked at Wonderboard/Tileboard at the home depot etc.. Fiberglass reinforced concrete.. in sheets neat stuff. I used to know the daughter of the inventor of the stuff.
[21:03:08] <spasticteapot> Shotcrete?
[21:03:16] <spasticteapot> Dave911: I'm casting spheres. :)
[21:03:36] <spasticteapot> Basically a poor mans' B&W Nautilus.
[21:03:52] <Dave911> So starting with sheets would be a little more than difficult.. ;-)
[21:03:55] <spasticteapot> Though, to be quite fair, with the active xovers and the Scan-Speak drivers, the performance won't be far off....
[21:03:59] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[21:05:03] <Dave911> I know a little about concrete - but next to nothing about the current audio scene.
[21:06:07] <spasticteapot> Audio is a headache wrapped within an enigma wrapped within an Excel spreadsheet.
[21:06:18] <spasticteapot> But the general rules of thumb are:
[21:06:21] <spasticteapot> 1. Rounded is good.
[21:06:23] <spasticteapot> 2. Hard is good.
[21:06:29] <spasticteapot> 3. Heavy is very, very, very good.
[21:06:58] <Dave911> Concrete sounds like an almost ideal speaker material then.
[21:06:59] <spasticteapot> 4. Small speakers all kinda suck unless you have a subwoofer. And even then they often suck anyway.
[21:07:03] <spasticteapot> Yep.
[21:07:30] <spasticteapot> Several high-end manufacturers use what is essentially Corian, but it's loopy expensive.
[21:07:51] <spasticteapot> Concrete is prone to chipping, but the price is definitely right.
[21:08:32] <Dave911> I have never understood why Corian type cast resin is so expensive.. I've seen it made - nothing special.
[21:08:50] <spasticteapot> It's a fairly nifty formulation, I guess.
[21:09:02] <spasticteapot> You can thermoform it and produce seamless joins.
[21:09:05] <spasticteapot> Also, it lasts quite well.
[21:09:23] <spasticteapot> I'd quite like some white corian for building some speakers - white is, apparently, the new old black.
[21:09:55] <Dave911> The stuff I saw was cast onto bands of stainless steel - flat sheet for countertops.
[21:10:18] <spasticteapot> I'd quite like some of that. :)
[21:10:27] <spasticteapot> Can't afford it, though.
[21:10:38] <Dave911> Good luck with your concrete speakers .. BBL
[21:23:51] <Jymmm> Dave911: That answer is simple... Made my DuPont.
[21:24:48] <Jymmm> If you are a cheap bastard (which everyone in here is), the two words you never want to hear are: 3M and DuPont =)
[21:25:57] <andypugh> There are cheaper variants of Corain.
[21:26:05] <andypugh> Made by non-Dupont
[21:26:44] <Jymmm> =)
[21:36:06] <Jymmm> Heh, i just got one of these for $20 http://www.quikshade.com/Product_Detail.aspx?Id=900
[22:06:14] <andypugh> Jymmm: Be careful: Contians chemicals know to cause birh defects (but only in California)
[22:06:45] <spasticteapot> Outside of California, it's perfectly safe.
[22:06:54] <archivist> shed with no sides!
[22:07:08] <gonzo_3> gonzo_3 is now known as gonzo_
[22:07:09] <andypugh> A shed for exhibitionists
[22:07:11] <spasticteapot> I want to build a house out of shipping containers so hard.
[22:07:21] <spasticteapot> It's just...mechanically elegant.
[22:07:32] <spasticteapot> Stack 'em wide, stack 'em high...do whatever!
[22:08:09] <andypugh> Arrange in a Stonehenge style...
[22:08:16] <spasticteapot> Hurr hurr.
[22:08:55] <andypugh> The problem is that they are quite small, and short on windows.
[22:09:57] <andypugh> I wonder what earth bonding would be needed? That would be a puzzle for the electrical inspectors
[22:12:10] <spasticteapot> Out of curiosity, can anyone suggest a way to cut shapes out of thin (~18ga.) copper?
[22:12:31] <spasticteapot> Aside, of course, from !@#$!@#$ jeweler's saws.
[22:12:35] <spasticteapot> I hate those things with a passion.
[22:15:22] <archivist> tin snips and then flatten
[22:16:11] <spasticteapot> The precision isn't good enough.
[22:16:42] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=7mm&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=2337&dir=2004%2F2004_05_08_7mm_loco&file=P1010109.JPG&subject=11625
[22:17:37] <archivist> toolbox is from biscuit tin cut then flattened
[22:18:22] <spasticteapot> Mhmm.
[22:18:31] <spasticteapot> archivist: I need curved edges, though.
[22:18:52] <Jymmm> It's got sides... http://www.quikshade.com/Product_Detail.aspx?Id=201
[22:18:59] <archivist> I dont have pics of my curved items
[22:19:00] <spasticteapot> Wobbly lines and some such.
[22:19:53] <Jymmm> archivist: you building a steam train?
[22:20:15] <spasticteapot> What kind of snips are you using?
[22:20:24] <spasticteapot> Maybe I've just got crappy snips.
[22:20:24] <archivist> no that was a repair job (the electric 7mm model)
[22:20:42] <archivist> one needs the best snips
[22:21:13] <Jymmm> the toolbox is cool
[22:21:17] <archivist> if they can cut tissue paper then they are ok
[22:21:47] <archivist> I have curved snips too
[22:22:22] <spasticteapot> Link to snips?
[22:23:39] <andypugh> spasticteapot: Try ordinary scissors?
[22:23:59] <spasticteapot> archivist: What kind of snips do you use?
[22:24:26] <archivist> just googling to find
[22:24:38] <andypugh> A monodex might work
[22:24:53] <andypugh> Is there any other snip manufacturer than Gilbow?
[22:25:10] <spasticteapot> Harbor freight?
[22:25:30] <andypugh> http://www.shop4tools.co.uk/acatalog/Gilbow_Snips.php
[22:25:41] <markusandroid> http://bambuser.com/v/915797 first run of the new portal mill
[22:25:51] <spasticteapot> Expensive!
[22:25:57] <markusandroid> 1400*1000*300mm
[22:26:20] <archivist> spasticteapot, straight I use http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiss-G10-Jewellers-Snips-180mm/dp/B0001P1A26
[22:27:09] <archivist> I use gilbow for curved but you have to select a good pair
[22:27:13] <andypugh> markusandroid: Is that a Cathode Ray Tube? How retro :-)
[22:27:32] <markusandroid> :)
[22:28:19] <andypugh> Gilbow G056 look like the tool for the job.
[22:28:33] <spasticteapot> Where do I get those in the US?
[22:30:16] <Jymmm> look sorta like japanese snippers http://www.southstarsupply.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1886&osCsid=112ee6fa9c740be57c1e1fecc7699e4d
[22:32:46] <andypugh> A little more heavy-duty, I think
[22:33:25] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[22:33:26] <spasticteapot> I can't find those things ANYWHERE.
[22:34:06] <andypugh> It seems that they really aren't doing well at exporting. (I can find the in Aus, and the UK and ireland, and that's it)
[22:34:23] <spasticteapot> !@#!@$
[22:35:19] <andypugh> Gilbow seem to be part of Irwin, and Irwin list a range of snips (but not quite the same things)
[22:35:20] <andypugh> http://www.irwin.com/tools/browse/snips
[22:35:52] <spasticteapot> Those are *much* too big.
[22:36:30] <markusandroid> http://www.maschinenstadler.com/pic/draeco_elektroschere_sd_5.jpg
[22:36:51] <markusandroid> I use this
[22:36:52] <markusandroid> :)
[22:37:04] <spasticteapot> Do you think these would work?
[22:37:05] <spasticteapot> http://www.bettymills.com/shop/product/view/Irwin/IRW586-23007.html?order=super_category&super_category=Cutting%20Tools&category=Snips&sub_category=Snips&manufacturer_id=Irwin
[22:40:39] <andypugh> What happens if you try to order from amazon.co.uk?
[22:42:29] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[22:43:07] <archivist> you remember the size of the toolbox http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_07_27_tinware/IMG_0797.JPG
[22:43:59] <archivist> I need to repair the catch
[23:07:48] <foxtrot> archivist, how'd you make that stuff?
[23:08:04] <ries> foxtrot: was just wondering teh same :)
[23:09:09] <archivist> tinsnips, scissors, a bearing to roll it flat and a flatt steel block, a good vice, wide flat smooth pliers and.. a soldering iron
[23:10:03] <archivist> the watering can has a pressed part which is done between two bearings
[23:10:44] <archivist> spout is cut to shape and rolled around a taper mandrel
[23:11:19] <archivist> seams have a lap which is fun to fold
[23:14:10] <archivist> water is too viscous to pour through the rose
[23:15:14] <foxtrot> thats awesome dude
[23:15:39] <foxtrot> i thought you milled it, in which case I was going to need to see a picture of your mill again :)
[23:17:00] <archivist> if you get old sheet metal workers books you see the development of the shapes for folding
[23:18:38] <Jymmm> shouldn't the toolbox be as tall as the pitcher?
[23:19:35] <Jymmm> archivist: the tub, what gives it the galvanized look?
[23:20:05] <archivist> paint, hammerite
[23:20:54] <spasticteapot> Can I have a picture of what the fnord you're all discussing?
[23:21:03] <archivist> scale was not that important and also it depends how small/ large the original
[23:21:27] <Jymmm> archivist: I jsut didn't know if they were suppose to be the same scale or not.
[23:21:32] <archivist> spasticteapot, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_07_27_tinware/IMG_0797.JPG
[23:21:39] <Jymmm> Just noticed something was amiss
[23:21:56] <Jymmm> I like the tub and toolbox
[23:28:49] <archivist> hmm just found the rest of the tinware
[23:29:25] <Jymmm> archivist: what is this roller thingy you mentioned?
[23:30:34] <archivist> a ball bearing that fits a finger
[23:30:47] <Jymmm> heh
[23:31:57] <Jymmm> how long is the toolbox, 25mm ?
[23:32:16] <foxtrot> is it possible for 3x 0.5A 12v 7.2deg steppers to run a mill
[23:32:29] <foxtrot> unipolar
[23:32:53] <JT-Hardinge> if the mill is the correct size yes
[23:33:31] <foxtrot> http://epicstuff.50webs.com/cnc/
[23:33:36] <foxtrot> its size: tiny
[23:33:46] <foxtrot> 8.5"x4"x3.5"
[23:34:06] <Jymmm> foxtrot: Dude, you need glasses (or retake those photos BIG TIME)
[23:34:30] <foxtrot> my camera sucks
[23:34:53] <Jymmm> that aint the camera, that's the operator
[23:34:59] <foxtrot> :'(
[23:35:25] <Jymmm> Toss up some better lighting and try again.
[23:35:37] <Jymmm> reflect it off the ceiling may help.
[23:36:00] <Jymmm> s/reflect/bounce/
[23:36:22] <foxtrot> cnc3.JPG is legible
[23:40:15] <foxtrot> i blew 2 of 3 of my microstepping bipolar drivers
[23:40:40] <foxtrot> so now I've got a Z axis with a working 2A bipolar 1.8deg stepper
[23:40:55] <foxtrot> and the same bipolar steppers on X and Y but no way to power them :(
[23:41:43] <foxtrot> but i do have a box of ULN2003/ULN2004/ULN2803
[23:41:54] <archivist> Jymmm, some scale and other items http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_07_27_tinware/IMG_0798.JPG
[23:42:54] <Jymmm> archivist: your server is slow, pause the pr0n downloads
[23:43:15] <archivist> Jymmm, there is a spider running :)
[23:43:27] <JT-Hardinge> foxtrot: just bite the bullet http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14472
[23:43:29] <Jymmm> archivist: Well, give it some LCD
[23:43:49] <Jymmm> foxtrot: or wait till august
[23:44:07] <foxtrot> what happens in august
[23:44:26] <Jymmm> geckos usually go on sale around that time
[23:44:49] <foxtrot> is there a emc simulator?
[23:45:15] <foxtrot> i want to somehow master tooltip positioning and machining in general so I dont break my mill again
[23:45:43] <JT-Hardinge> cut air first
[23:46:47] <JT-Hardinge> foxtrot: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//lathe_lathe-user.html#r1_7
[23:48:12] <JT-Hardinge> wow 2050 users have registered in the forum
[23:48:49] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: all russian spammers that want to sell YOU viagra
[23:49:02] <JT-Hardinge> lol
[23:49:16] <Jymmm> Make that Ukrane
[23:49:38] <JT-Hardinge> I don't need viagra... have you seen the neighbor gal?
[23:50:00] <DaViruz> might be a plot
[23:50:12] <DaViruz> forst they set off chernobyl to make everyone impotent, then theytry to sell viagra
[23:50:12] <Dave911> Pictures JT... Pictures .. ;-)
[23:50:21] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: No, got 10,000 zoom lens pics?
[23:51:32] <JT-Hardinge> http://www.hi-techredneck.com/Redneck_girl.jpg
[23:53:21] <JT-Hardinge> oh and if you look the other way you see http://outhouserag.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/redneck_1.jpg
[23:55:11] <JT-Hardinge> Dave911: they broke my camera
[23:55:21] <erlyrisa_> Anyone know how to setup more axis on multiple parrallel ports
[23:55:47] <JT-Hardinge> sure we all do
[23:56:14] <foxtrot> yhttp://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?i=14471 thats the G251 whats the difference between the G250 and G251
[23:56:22] <foxtrot> those are 3 axis units right?
[23:56:36] <JT-Hardinge> heat sink and terminal block I think
[23:57:39] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm: they broke my zoom lens
[23:57:41] <erlyrisa_> ....I'm about to get my 251's in the post, can't wait
[23:58:04] <JT-Hardinge> 251's are neat
[23:58:27] <foxtrot> im just not sure how it works with only 14pins
[23:58:40] <foxtrot> i have 4pin bipolar steppers
[23:58:55] <erlyrisa_> Thiers a full kit with 3 motors, 3 251's a Break out board and a 48V power supply for $500 on ebay