#emc | Logs for 2010-07-08

[00:03:12] <lepton> So I'm working on setting up my Mesa IO boards to control the contactors that give power to my stepper drivers and spindle
[00:04:12] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:04:12] <lepton> In my HAL file I've been able to get the contactors to come on when I enable machine power in Axis, via the line:
[00:04:13] <lepton> net contactor-stepper-control <= axis.0.amp-enable-out
[00:04:14] <lepton> and that works well
[00:04:32] <lepton> However, my problem is that it conflicts with the line I have to enable stepgen on my Mesa boards, that line being:
[00:04:40] <lepton> net axis-enable-chain-x1 axis.0.amp-enable-out net contactor-stepper-control => hm2_5i23.0.stepgen.00.enable
[00:05:21] <lepton> Any suggestions for how I can get these to play nicely together? I'm trying to find a relavent example file but haven't figured it out yet
[00:07:35] <JT-Hardinge> lepton: are you looking to or or and them together?
[00:09:50] <lepton> I want it such that the "toggle machine power" / f2 command causes my two contactors to turn on, AND enable stepgen on my Mesa motion board
[00:10:15] <lepton> It's okay if all of those functions are completely tied together in the Hal configuration
[00:11:26] <JT-Hardinge> you can use one signal to "out" several things http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
[00:11:54] <JT-Hardinge> you can only have on "in" for a signal
[00:12:45] <JT-Hardinge> does that make sense?
[00:13:05] <lepton> Yeah, actually seb and I were talking about that in person last night
[00:13:13] <JT-Hardinge> cool
[00:13:27] <lepton> I'm still trying to get a handle on proper syntax, though
[00:14:18] <JT-Hardinge> it's pretty easy "once you know how" but can be confusing at first
[00:14:47] <lepton> For sure! Setting up EMC on this machine has become a multi-week process
[00:14:59] <JT-Hardinge> my rule is change one thing and then fire up EMC to check syntax lol
[00:15:03] <lepton> but I think it'll be a single day process next time
[00:16:02] <JT-Hardinge> yep
[00:16:04] <lepton> yeah, problem is I spent four hours messing with a Hal file blindly (on another machine without EMC installed) last night, so some things work great, and others not so much 0_o
[00:16:15] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wanders in for some tacos :)
[00:16:41] <JT-Hardinge> lepton: keep working you will get there :)
[00:17:13] <lepton> Indeed. Ever since I got motion on the machine, it's felt a lot more approachable
[00:21:56] <lepton> Hey, I fixed it :)
[00:21:59] <lepton> Thanks JT-Hardinge :)
[01:35:02] <alex_chally> wow, someone's sig on the cnczone forums actually made me laugh
[01:35:18] <alex_chally> "Warning: DIY CNC may cause extreme hair loss due to pulling your hair out"
[01:36:34] <ries> alex_chally: properly because he doesn't read the material good enough..
[01:36:55] <alex_chally> ries, it is also kinda hard :p
[01:37:11] <alex_chally> * alex_chally got his Y nut holder done today
[01:37:35] <alex_chally> i have the feeling there might be some shimming in my future
[01:37:49] <ries> :)
[02:21:10] <Srpski> Srpski is now known as Dannyboy
[03:42:50] <Jymmm> boo?
[03:44:52] <ries> boo
[05:18:27] <elmo40> moo?
[05:54:47] <Valen> anybody know where to get interesting stainlesses from online?
[05:54:56] <Valen> like 904 or "better"
[05:55:08] <Valen> I needs non magnetic though
[06:21:18] <elmo40> what is 904 stainless?
[06:22:14] <elmo40> ahh, i see it
[06:22:21] <elmo40> austenitic stainless
[06:22:42] <elmo40> 904L. UNS# N08904
[06:23:28] <elmo40> up to 2% Cu. and less then 0.02% C.
[06:24:55] <elmo40> compared to 316, it has twice the Nickel content! That would make it very difficult to machine.
[06:26:02] <elmo40> as for non-magnetic i would recommend 316, 310, 314 or even 309.
[06:27:29] <elmo40> only 316 contains Mo, as with 904... though non of them have Cu.
[06:28:03] <elmo40> depending on the requirement i can tailor the compound.
[06:45:52] <Valen> its for a high end thing thats going to be handled alot and go diving
[06:46:05] <Valen> so 316 is probably not enough
[06:46:26] <Valen> (316 goes brown in salt water)
[07:03:21] <elmo40> seems as though all 3xx and 2xx series stainless has a magnetic permiability of less then 1.0
[07:03:40] <elmo40> compared to 4xx series which is above 600
[07:04:12] <elmo40> any perticular strength?
[07:07:48] <bricofoy> hi
[07:07:59] <elmo40> try looking for UNS# N08024 or N08026. They use them in valves and pipe flanges. Non-austenitic. medium Yield Strength of 240 MPa
[07:08:24] <bricofoy> is there some variable in GCode that reports current Z position of the tool ?
[07:09:03] <elmo40> that reports?
[07:09:04] <Valen> elmo40: those are all probably magnetic though?
[07:09:09] <elmo40> as in give feedback?
[07:09:25] <bricofoy> I need to make a "retract then home" mdi command, but of course I must not go to the retract point if Z is alredy above it
[07:09:32] <Valen> i need to read a hall effect sensor through it
[07:10:34] <elmo40> Valen: i dont believe they are...
[07:11:00] <elmo40> ya, and... you can make it out of steel. the sensor notices a 'change' in magnetic field.
[07:11:14] <Valen> sorry reed switch
[07:11:17] <Valen> not hall sensor
[07:11:30] <Valen> i was under the impression that the non austentic steels were magnetic
[07:12:04] <elmo40> correct
[07:12:17] <elmo40> hence the N08024 and 26
[07:12:25] <Valen> try looking for UNS# N08024 or N08026. They use them in valves and pipe flanges. Non-austenitic. medium Yield Strength of 240 MPa
[07:12:34] <Valen> which means they will be magnetic
[07:12:38] <elmo40> they are austenitic
[07:12:47] <elmo40> ok, hold on :P
[07:12:53] <elmo40> 3am here... let me double check that
[07:13:17] <elmo40> 887 is used in Nuclear Reactors... try finding that at a decent price ;)
[07:13:31] <Valen> If there is some online store that sells this stuff in less than 10 tonne lots i'd be interested at almost any price
[07:13:57] <elmo40> where are you located?
[07:14:25] <Valen> australia
[07:15:21] <elmo40> 316 goes brown, eh?
[07:15:31] <elmo40> it may be due to the Mo. content
[07:15:31] <Valen> 's what I hear
[07:16:25] <elmo40> 309 does not contain Molybdenum, neither does 304
[07:16:35] <elmo40> those should be readily available
[07:16:57] <Valen> they seem to reccomend 316 for marine stuff
[07:17:11] <Valen> (aside from the brown)
[07:17:26] <elmo40> and where did you get the 904 from?
[07:17:38] <elmo40> very high in nickel.
[07:17:44] <Valen> its what rolex makes their watches out of
[07:17:50] <Valen> well the submariner series
[07:17:52] <elmo40> 330 is even higher, up to 34% !
[07:17:59] <elmo40> no, 37 %
[07:18:15] <elmo40> i see...
[07:18:33] <Valen> our torch is going to be in a similar environment
[07:18:46] <elmo40> low in carbon, high in nickel and a touch of copper.
[07:18:56] <Valen> and being a "premium product" I want it to last and stay shiny
[07:19:05] <elmo40> it is mainly for looks ;)
[07:19:09] <Valen> http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1022
[07:19:10] <elmo40> the nickel will keep a shine
[07:21:17] <elmo40> there you go. 2205.
[07:21:19] <Valen> we are hoping to do the hot cutting (ceramic cutters) method to machine it
[07:21:22] <Valen> magnetic
[07:21:24] <elmo40> the website has an option for you
[07:21:57] <elmo40> low nickel in 2205
[07:22:37] <elmo40> lol: "904L is a high purity, low sulphur grade, and as such will not machine well."
[07:23:15] <Valen> "Despite this the grade can be machined using standard techniques."
[07:23:33] <Valen> its not going to bother ceramic cutters though
[07:23:48] <elmo40> everything can be... might take a day or so to make the cut, but standard practices will suffice ;)
[07:23:56] <elmo40> ceramics rule!
[07:24:25] <elmo40> http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=958
[07:24:29] <elmo40> the alternative
[07:25:04] <Valen> doesn't say about the magnetism
[07:25:41] <Valen> as other tables say that anything other than austenitic is magnetic i'll presume it is magnetic
[07:26:25] <Valen> 316 might do I spose
[07:26:40] <Valen> not as cool though
[07:27:09] <Valen> that and I can get 10 blanks waterjet cut to size with materials supplied for $90
[07:27:28] <elmo40> 904 have < 0.02%, 2205 has <0.03%
[07:27:46] <elmo40> Iron content
[07:28:03] <Valen> heh not really a stainless "steel" then is it lol
[07:28:24] <Valen> I was thinking the copper/nickel alloys but I figure it'd turn things green
[07:28:39] <Valen> If 904 is good enough for rolex though it'd be good enough for me
[07:29:17] <elmo40> true ;)
[07:29:26] <elmo40> and 316 is not the way to go... http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=5102
[07:29:33] <elmo40> the 'balance' is Fe
[07:29:55] <Valen> its non magnetic
[07:30:07] <elmo40> then what is the Iron doing in there?
[07:30:13] <Valen> doesn't matter
[07:30:24] <Valen> the other crap in there disrupts the magnetic domains
[07:30:26] <elmo40> Stainless Steel 316 has slightly better corrosion resistance than 302 and 304. It also has better non-magnetic properties
[07:30:29] <elmo40> weird
[07:30:32] <Valen> nickel is highly magnetic
[07:30:48] <archivist> bronze
[07:31:01] <Valen> tarnishes rather quickly
[07:31:06] <elmo40> Valen: what is this going to be used on?
[07:31:21] <Valen> pocket torch/backup dive light
[07:31:35] <Valen> http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=2382 is what we can get ahold of atm
[07:31:58] <Valen> but its a "premium product", so its gotta be quality through and through
[07:32:27] <elmo40> you know you have a British background when you still use 'torch' for 'light' ;)
[07:32:45] <Valen> a light is different to a torch
[07:32:49] <Valen> to me at least
[07:32:52] <elmo40> i was thinking of a gas cutting torch :-P
[07:33:02] <elmo40> it is? they are? >_<
[07:33:11] <elmo40> crazy brits...
[07:33:14] <elmo40> what is a torch?
[07:33:19] <Valen> to me a light is an area thing, like a lead light
[07:33:24] <Valen> or lantern style
[07:33:37] <Valen> typically the things in the roof that make the glowy are called lights
[07:34:03] <Valen> torch is a portable thing for making light
[07:34:06] <Valen> hand held
[07:35:59] <elmo40> understood.
[07:36:15] <elmo40> i am in Ontario Canada, 3:30am... time for sleep.
[07:36:20] <elmo40> good luck with the project!
[07:36:21] <Valen> cya
[07:36:25] <Valen> thanks
[07:36:34] <elmo40> maybe Ti would be useful? ;)
[07:36:49] <Valen> everybody does that
[07:36:53] <Valen> and Ti is soft anyway
[07:37:00] <elmo40> light weight and non-magnetic
[07:37:49] <Valen> yeah but if you drop it it'll be dinged up
[07:38:06] <Valen> stainless odds are your just going to get a scuff
[07:40:06] <elmo40> you must be talking about the general Ti-6Al-4V
[07:40:37] <Valen> comparatively its softer than stainless
[07:40:43] <Valen> better than Al
[07:41:44] <ds2> i wonder... does this mean a 'torches and pitchfork mob' would be visualized differently by the brits?
[07:42:07] <Valen> nah thats got fire, that one carries over
[07:42:08] <elmo40> i have pieces here that will not ding when struck by a ball peen hammer
[07:42:22] <Valen> a flaming torch is pretty clear ;->
[07:42:35] <Valen> yeah but scrape the hammer across it and it'll get damaged
[07:42:37] <elmo40> trying to figure out the composition.
[07:42:41] <Valen> or drop it onto concrete
[07:42:43] <elmo40> enything will
[07:42:49] <Valen> stainless not so much
[07:43:05] <Valen> morfics cobalt wouldn't ;->
[07:43:05] <elmo40> if it is polished, it will get scuffed.
[07:43:15] <elmo40> or tungsten
[07:43:38] <Valen> you can work tungsten
[07:43:58] <Valen> my missus has a polished 316 watch, after 3 years or so it still looks good
[07:46:22] <i_tarzan> carbide?
[07:46:53] <Valen> brittle
[08:34:27] <bricofoy> is there some variable in GCode that reports current Z position of the tool ? I need to make a "retract then home" mdi command, but of course I must not go to the retract point if Z is alredy above it. So I would like to add a IF on the Z current pos before asking Z to move.
[08:57:25] <alex_chally> bricofoy, I think that this is a problem best solved by using machine postion vs program position
[08:58:07] <alex_chally> I am not sure of the details of how to do it, but the general idea is that the machine keeps track of your g54 offset as a relation to the homed position
[08:58:16] <alex_chally> that is, not sure about how to do it in EMC
[08:59:50] <bricofoy> alex_chally, yeah but whatever coordinate system I use (machine pos or program pos) my problem is to have the hability to read this pos from inside the gcode program.
[09:00:49] <bricofoy> sure it is better to use machine pos to do this :) when I said "home" I was thinking "machine home"
[09:01:00] <alex_chally> bricofoy, can you not instruct it to go to a set machine co-ordinate?
[09:01:26] <Valen> there are gcodes that work in machine cortinates
[09:01:41] <bricofoy> I could do something like G53 G00 Z0
[09:01:55] <bricofoy> and then G53 G00 X0Y0
[09:02:30] <alex_chally> bricofoy, that is how I would go about it, although I would look up those codes that Valen is talking about just to reduce overall complexity
[09:02:53] <Valen> you might not want to jump out of a co-ordinate system
[09:02:54] <alex_chally> is there a good comprehensive list of all the gcodes that EMC supports and what their syntax is?
[09:03:01] <bricofoy> but as my Z is SLOW, I prefer doing G53 G00 Z(safe position) then G53 home
[09:03:13] <Valen> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html ?
[09:03:34] <alex_chally> yup
[09:03:35] <bricofoy> but my problem is, if for some reason I previously jogged Z above the safe position
[09:03:38] <Valen> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G53:-Move-in
[09:03:53] <Valen> alex_chally: thats the same thing I was thinking sorry
[09:03:56] <bricofoy> when I run my MDI command, z goes down to th safe pos then home
[09:04:00] <bricofoy> and this is stupid
[09:04:03] <Valen> I thaught you were changing cordinate systems
[09:04:18] <alex_chally> bricofoy, are you dealing with extremely long tools or something?
[09:04:41] <alex_chally> i mean, the home positin should be near the absolute top travel limits of the Z axis to prevent problems like that
[09:05:00] <alex_chally> i should probably add an "in my opinion" in there, but I have been drinking
[09:05:08] <bricofoy> yes my machine home pos is at the top travel of Z
[09:05:23] <alex_chally> bricofoy, then how could you jog above it?
[09:05:56] <alex_chally> (not trying to be a douche, just don't quite understand the problem)
[09:06:08] <bricofoy> not above machine home ! above the safe position, wich is 5 cm above the work, far down from machine home
[09:07:16] <bricofoy> now my mdi command is : G53 G0 Z(safe pos) \n G53 G0 X0Y0Z0
[09:07:42] <bricofoy> this work, but my problem is, if for some reason I jogged Z above the safe pos
[09:08:36] <bricofoy> when I click my "fast home" pyvcp button, Z first goes down to the safe pos then the machine goes back to home
[09:08:41] <bricofoy> and this is stupid
[09:09:15] <bricofoy> so I want to make a IF statement in my mdi gcode to test if I'm already above the safe pos
[09:09:23] <alex_chally> yes, that is stupid, as obviously Z should never go down while homing
[09:09:33] <bricofoy> and then just go home without moving Z for nothing
[09:09:57] <alex_chally> bricofoy, you are worried about crashing, not extra time consumed in movement, correct?
[09:10:11] <bricofoy> I'm worried about both
[09:10:30] <bricofoy> but most by extra time
[09:10:58] <bricofoy> beacause in that case, it first go down to "safe pos" so safe... is safe
[09:11:19] <bricofoy> but it is really an unexpected move for the user of the machine !
[09:11:39] <alex_chally> can you define the safe position in machine co-ordinates in stead of work, thus making it a fixed position?
[09:12:23] <bricofoy> yeah it is already defined in machine coordinate, as I move to it with G53 G0
[09:12:32] <bricofoy> but this is not the point
[09:13:04] <bricofoy> the point is : how to know from within the gcode what the tool pos is, no matter witch coordinate is used
[09:14:22] <bricofoy> I can reformulate the question : is there somewhere a list a variables that can be used in a gcode program ?
[09:15:38] <bricofoy> for example #5399 is related to motion.digital.in-00
[09:16:42] <herron_> safe position depends on machine and tool in question
[09:17:26] <alex_chally> bricofoy, maybe this is what you are looking for
[09:17:27] <alex_chally> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Oword
[09:17:35] <alex_chally> I have not actually read that
[09:18:55] <alex_chally> and now I have, and they have at least one if else
[09:19:23] <bricofoy> yes but i already use Owords and IF in my gcode
[09:19:54] <bricofoy> the problem is not the IF, but the condition for the IF...
[09:20:10] <bricofoy> for example in my current code I have :
[09:20:51] <bricofoy> O101 if [#5399 EQ 1]
[09:20:51] <bricofoy> O110 call
[09:21:02] <bricofoy> this work
[09:21:46] <bricofoy> my problem is to have the #something that is reflecting the current Z pos to put in the IF condition
[09:24:02] <bricofoy> herron_, yeah you're right but my tool is always the same (glue output) so this is not the point
[09:26:59] <alex_chally> so really the question is how to report the current tool position to an if statement, yes?
[09:27:32] <herron_> bricofoy, well the point is you decide for your machine
[09:27:32] <bricofoy> yeah !
[09:28:19] <bricofoy> herron_, yeah of course but my problem is no to define where this safe point is, but how to know from withing the gcode if the tool is already above this point or not
[09:28:59] <bricofoy> alex_chally, what I'm looking for is something like that : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Numbered-Parameters
[09:29:53] <bricofoy> but is there a list somewhere of the parameters already defined by the machine, not by the user inside his gcode file ?
[09:29:54] <herron_> well it depends on the job too
[09:30:21] <bricofoy> yeah but in my case the tool is always the same, the job is always the same
[09:30:36] <bricofoy> but for some reason the user could have jogged the machine
[09:31:35] <herron_> there was an email thread on jogging mid job a few months ago
[09:32:27] <bricofoy> alex_chally, for example I found that #5399 reflects the state of the motion.digital-in-x you previously read with M66 Px L0
[09:33:01] <bricofoy> and I'm pretty sure that there is a #something that refelct the tool pos...
[09:34:03] <bricofoy> herron_, yeah but this is not the problem I have.
[09:35:19] <bricofoy> the point is : "The interpret maintains a number of readonly parameters for a loaded tool. #5400 tool number #5401 tool x offset #5402 tool y offset #5403 tool z offset #5404 tool a offset (RESERVED for future use) #5405 tool b offset (RESERVED for future use) #5406 tool c offset (RESERVED for future use) #5407 tool u offset (RESERVED for future use) #5408 tool v offset (RESERVED for future use) #5409 tool w offset (used with ini
[09:35:19] <bricofoy> file setting for [TRAj]TLO_IS_ALONG_W) #5410 tool diameter #5411 tool frontangle #5412 tool backangle #5413 tool orientation"
[09:36:16] <bricofoy> It seems so stupi to me that the interpreter does not maintains also tree more readonly parameters that refects the current machine position...
[09:37:14] <bricofoy> but the #5399 was not specified here, So I guess there is anotherones that are just not mentionned.
[09:37:59] <bricofoy> I'm just looking for the _FULL_ list of existing parameters, like you have the full list of existing Gcode or Mcodes
[09:44:11] <bricofoy> I think I will take a look to the source code, parameter may be defined in a .H file somewhere...
[14:33:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Hey man, I found the PERFECT job for you... http://www.creditcardworker.com/
[14:36:09] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I'm Convinced... Give Me Instant Access So I Can Start Making Money Online Right Away!
[14:37:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, and if you act now you can save $140 and only pay the registration fee of $49.99
[14:37:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: (see bottom of that link)
[14:37:20] <SWPadnos> it's $49.97, silly
[14:37:29] <Jymmm> my bad
[14:37:31] <SWPadnos> oh wait, $49.95
[14:37:43] <SWPadnos> actually, they don't know, since they have both numbers on that page :)
[14:38:00] <Jymmm> + $29.99 shipping and processing fee
[14:58:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: HAve you ever looked at Processing?
[14:58:24] <SWPadnos> nope
[14:58:33] <Jymmm> (hang on)
[14:58:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://processing.org/
[14:59:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: At the heart, it's Java. But made in a simplified way.
[14:59:23] <SWPadnos> oh, that Processing :)
[14:59:33] <SWPadnos> I thought you were still on the credit card thing :)
[14:59:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sorry bout that
[15:00:15] <SWPadnos> you have pointed it out before, but I haven't really looked at it in depth
[15:00:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I think it's the corss platform GUI dev I've been looking for for years.
[15:00:53] <Jymmm> cross
[15:00:55] <SWPadnos> could be
[15:01:06] <celeron55> java doesn't sound good
[15:01:55] <Jymmm> celeron55: Heh, I'd say that too, but this is a bastardized child, so much more simplified.
[15:03:00] <Jymmm> celeron55: They are the sam ppl that put out the Arduino stuff
[15:03:11] <Jymmm> which is also java based.
[15:03:57] <Jymmm> If you wanted an arduni to interact with the computer somehow, you would use Procesing
[15:04:11] <Jymmm> for the GUI part
[15:06:37] <Jymmm> http://www.michaelang.com/3d-printing-from-processing
[15:09:52] <i_tarzan> 3D Printing on Ãpaper?
[15:10:16] <Jymmm> On a 3D printer =)
[15:13:55] <celeron55> where can I find a good Processing sample code that does something something useful
[15:13:59] <celeron55> -something
[15:14:32] <celeron55> these are weird http://wiki.processing.org/w/2D_Geometry
[15:17:18] <Jymmm> celeron55: http://www.processing.org/learning/trig/
[15:19:12] <Jymmm> celeron55: The website examples kinda limit to grpahics, but take data logging as exmaple and then use Proceesing to make live graphs etc
[15:22:51] <dimas> Jymmm, how is processing mandatory to arduino? you getting your data from serial port and can use whatever you want
[15:23:55] <Jymmm> dimas: You mean USB port?
[15:25:56] <dimas> yep
[15:26:20] <Jymmm> dimas: So, then you CANT use anything you want.
[15:26:50] <dimas> why?
[15:27:38] <SWPadnos> the USB part looks like a serial port to the PC software, if you want to use it that way
[15:27:43] <Jymmm> But lets say you want to take temperature readings all around your house. You can use Processing to display a drawing of your house and then display the temperatures, etc.
[15:28:04] <Jymmm> not just a text file
[15:28:29] <Jymmm> maybe even have each room change color based n the temp
[15:29:06] <Jymmm> Your own mini weather station per room all purrty like
[15:31:16] <dimas> Jymmm, that's close to what i do - reading temps, logging it into a file and visualise it with r-project script
[15:31:30] <dimas> let me find another link
[15:31:37] <Jymmm> dimas: Sounds ugly GUI wise.
[15:33:45] <dimas> Jymmm, yeah, but works? i would rather upload it to pachube then using processing
[15:34:09] <Jymmm> dimas: Well, that's the point. it doens't HAVE to be ugly.
[15:34:50] <Jymmm> Plus at a click of the mouse you can control the arduino too.
[15:36:23] <dimas> Jymmm, those simplest scripts were provided by someone who use r professionally, i'm not a gui guy, so i was happy
[15:37:08] <Jymmm> dimas: Again, that's the point... you dont HAVE to be a GUI guy to have something GUI you can create =)
[15:38:14] <dimas> Jymmm, I know, and I do not blame processing at all
[15:51:43] <dimas> Jymmm, the link I was talking about - http://robotgrrl.com/blog/2010/01/15/arduino-to-matlab-read-in-sensor-data/
[15:52:57] <seb_kuzminsky> if i want to mill a chamfer onto an edge, what cutting tool should i use?
[15:53:10] <Jymmm> dimas: AWESOME! Now, let me have YOUR credit card number so I can purchase MatLab =)
[15:53:14] <mrsun> a shampher tool ? :P
[15:53:17] <mrsun> chamfer
[15:53:18] <mrsun> :P
[15:53:20] <seb_kuzminsky> something like this? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=380-1810&PMPXNO=948452&PARTPG=INLMK32
[15:53:56] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: no, use a 90 degree V mill
[15:54:11] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky google v mill
[15:54:12] <dimas> Jymmm, that's just another example, MatLab is not mandatory as well :)
[15:54:12] <cradek> those zero-flute style are for hand work a drill press
[15:56:09] <cradek> I'm not finding them either... hmmm
[15:56:34] <seb_kuzminsky> "drill mills"? http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=320-1400&PMPXNO=946286&PARTPG=INLMK3
[15:56:58] <cradek> yes there you go
[15:57:06] <seb_kuzminsky> great!
[15:57:06] <cradek> that's what I use
[15:57:17] <seb_kuzminsky> ooh, then that's what i'll use too! ;-)
[15:57:18] <cradek> (they sure are expensive)
[15:57:27] <seb_kuzminsky> wonder if they come in non-cobalt...
[15:57:51] <seb_kuzminsky> just in cobalt or solid carbide...
[15:59:10] <cradek> well if you just use it for edges and stuff, you only need one size, and it'll last forever
[16:00:14] <seb_kuzminsky> anyone have a current enco coupon?
[16:00:24] <cradek> looking...
[16:00:50] <cradek> RWB99 is free shipping on $99 (not a very good one)
[16:01:30] <cradek> ooh try WEBECP
[16:01:39] <cradek> or PFSJUL
[16:02:29] <seb_kuzminsky> webecp ftw
[16:02:52] <morficmobile> 90deg. "Drill Mills" are nice for that
[16:02:57] <cradek> yeah that's a good one
[16:03:07] <cradek> morficmobile: yep that's what we're looking at
[16:03:19] <cradek> morficmobile: took us a while to come up with the name though
[16:03:45] <morficmobile> Garr's work nice (Cabide +TiAlN) in stainless.
[16:05:20] <seb_kuzminsky> now i sit by the window and look longingly for the ups truck
[16:05:26] <cradek> haha
[16:05:43] <moop> ups?
[16:05:49] <cradek> UPS drivers make everyone happy. I bet nobody us ever sad to see them.
[16:05:57] <cradek> is
[16:06:24] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: working on a fun project?
[16:06:55] <seb_kuzminsky> same little cheesy one i brought to the cnc workshop, i'm slow ;-)
[16:06:56] <moop> I decided to start writing about my robot conversion as i can do nothing till my l298 driver arrives
[16:07:59] <moop>
[16:08:18] <cradek> what material did you say you were going to use for that? iirc it was something odd?
[16:08:53] <moop> a cast epoxy blast furnace?
[16:11:58] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: my last little project was this spindle mount (two pieces including the round piece that matches the top of the rotary, attached together with 4 1/4-20 SHCS you can't see): http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/stethem-spindle-on-max.jpg
[16:12:43] <cradek> the hole is bored to be a close fit to the spindle body and it tightens with just a saw kerf's clearance
[16:13:58] <cradek> notice it's made so the rotation is around the tip of a typical-length tool (saves X travel)
[16:15:52] <moop> are those powermax steppers good?
[16:16:36] <cradek> they're adequate for this machine but they are 10-15 years old so I'm sure there are better now
[16:17:02] <cradek> this little machine is reliable but not fast
[16:17:15] <moop> I have one i got on ebay for 6quid, i still have not used it yet
[16:17:48] <moop> I was going to use it on my sherline conversion
[16:39:13] <moop> I just checked your timeguy.com site, I like your second welcome paragraph
[16:41:39] <moop> I have so many 80% finished projects
[16:42:19] <moop> but 80% of my projects are unstarted
[16:42:35] <cradek> haha I'm such a geek: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/01118433994/gb.png
[16:44:23] <archivist_attic> cradek, I have a few pics you should see, proper clock geek porn look at the digital clock pics http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_06_19_BP/
[16:48:26] <cradek> funky! do you have a picture of it working?
[16:49:02] <cradek> is that huge winged cylinder a selenium rectifier on drugs?
[16:49:25] <archivist_attic> it just illuminates some of the lights dimly, dunno if I got a pic of it on
[16:50:04] <archivist_attic> sure looked like a selenium rectifier or the earlier copper oxide type
[16:50:45] <archivist_attic> size would probably mean copper oxide rectifier
[16:50:46] <cradek> but so many taps ... and why would it need dc?
[16:51:34] <cradek> what's the technology? telechron rotor and lots of cams and switches?
[16:51:38] <archivist_attic> uniselector may need clean ish dc
[16:51:55] <cradek> I can't make any sense of the mechanism
[16:52:51] <archivist_attic> I dont think he has worked out all the funky ness yet, it also has some mechanical along the front which also does leap years
[16:53:43] <cradek> are the metal boxes soldered to the top paper capacitors?
[16:54:16] <archivist_attic> yes
[16:54:24] <cradek> bbl, lunch
[16:54:34] <seb_kuzminsky> seeya cradek, thanks again
[16:54:34] <archivist_attic> seems to think its prototpe
[18:27:16] <SWPadnos> wow: http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-443528-_-07082010
[18:27:33] <SWPadnos> case+PSU+mini-ITX motherboard for $50
[18:32:30] <cradek> I wonder what this reviewer means by "happy to see solid state capacitors"
[18:32:31] <bricofoy> great price :)
[18:32:40] <bricofoy> but without parport and pci slot :(
[18:32:41] <cradek> does he mean surface mount maybe?
[18:33:11] <bricofoy> cradek, I think not electrolytic capacitor
[18:33:16] <bricofoy> eg ceramic or something
[18:33:42] <SWPadnos> it has a PCIe slot, if you need to use it for EMC2 :)
[18:33:54] <SWPadnos> (I think Mesa has a 3xsomething that's PCie)
[18:34:07] <bricofoy> good news
[18:34:44] <bricofoy> this could be something cool to replace my PIII _SLOW_ box on my machine
[18:34:48] <SWPadnos> no, they're electrolytics. maybe he did mean SMT
[18:34:56] <bricofoy> ok
[18:35:27] <bricofoy> cradek, did you try to view/print my grafcet file ?
[18:35:55] <cradek> I just tried that one time, and I couldn't view it
[18:36:19] <cradek> I notice from emc-users that chris morley has taken an interest, and he's the guy who can really help you
[18:39:06] <bricofoy> yeah He Alraedy helped me a LOT with his sample.
[18:39:14] <andypugh_garage> bricofoy: MSI have an all-in-one Atom machine with a touchscreen and (unadvertised) p-port which looks like a promising EMC host
[18:40:52] <andypugh_garage> http://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-Wind-AE1900-WT-Touch-Panel/dp/B002DYTDVS/ref=sr_1_4/277-7993882-3877450?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278614401&sr=1-4
[18:41:58] <bricofoy> because I didn't found anywhere that the variable corresponding to the grafcet states are called X0 X1 X2 etccet states
[18:42:11] <bricofoy> so I was wondering grafcet was really uselss
[18:42:38] <bricofoy> but his mail was like... seeing god ?
[18:42:47] <bricofoy> Dave one was helpfull too
[18:58:02] <redwizard-nb> andypugh_garage: if i wasn't planning on running such a hatchet job i'd get one of those but it costs more than what i'm building lol
[19:00:54] <bricofoy> andypugh_garage, yeah I've seen this machine at my local supermarket
[19:01:11] <bricofoy> but quite expensive :/
[19:06:06] <alex_chally> the russians sure do know how to build a spaceship that looks like a spaceship.
[19:06:06] <alex_chally> http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/protonm/1003241557
[19:07:06] <DaViruz> the russians sure do know how to buold a spaceship that looks russian
[19:08:13] <redwizard-nb> looks like something a bunch of enthusiasts that stumbled onto a missle and wanted to go into space would build
[19:09:12] <alex_chally> redwizard-kde, that is kinda what I love about it
[19:09:19] <alex_chally> it looks like some dude made it in the shed out back
[19:09:34] <redwizard-nb> lol
[19:09:38] <redwizard-nb> no i didnt >>
[19:10:16] <redwizard-nb> * redwizard-nb hides racetospace.org
[19:15:35] <andypugh> I wonder if it is worth making a salt bath for heat-treating parts?
[19:17:19] <MrSunshine> depends on how much precision you want
[19:17:24] <MrSunshine> and DONT put any water in it :P
[19:17:28] <MrSunshine> did that done that, b
[19:17:36] <MrSunshine> got the explosion/burn marks on my t-shirt and glasses :P
[19:18:52] <andypugh> Yes, me too.
[19:19:03] <andypugh> Molten sodium hydroxide will do that.
[19:19:38] <andypugh> I have some little tiny O1 parts, I figure a salt bath will heat them without scaling
[19:19:46] <andypugh> And then can be used for tempering too.
[19:20:16] <andypugh> furnace controllers are about £20 from eBay, and I have a reel of resistance wire.
[19:25:23] <andypugh> I wonder what the melting point of a coffee mug is?
[19:26:16] <cradek> andypugh: wrap in stainless foil with a piece of paper?
[19:26:50] <andypugh> You mean use the foil as an element?
[19:27:09] <cradek> no, it keeps new oxygen out (once the paper burns it up)
[19:27:18] <cradek> I've never tried it, but I've read it
[19:27:43] <andypugh> Right, I see what you mean now.
[19:28:09] <andypugh> I can see that might slow down the quench though?
[19:28:37] <andypugh> Though, conversely, it will keep it warm on the way to the quench.
[19:29:41] <cradek> seems like the quench would still be adequate, and maybe you'd get less distortion too (cools more evenly)
[19:29:47] <cradek> but I'm guessing
[19:30:07] <andypugh> All I have at the moment is a blow-torch, so I think I will need to make/buy something anyway.
[19:30:10] <cradek> watchmakers coat with soap and wrap in iron wire
[19:31:36] <cradek> are your parts just small or are they tiny?
[19:31:48] <andypugh> soap to prevent scaling, and iron wire to keep them hot?
[19:32:03] <andypugh> Tiny.
[19:32:09] <andypugh> Or huge, to a watchmaker
[19:33:11] <cradek> I think the wire helps you heat it (in a flame) without just burning it up
[19:33:56] <andypugh> They are 20mm long, 7 mm wide and about 3mm thick
[19:34:23] <cradek> http://watchmaking.weebly.com/tourbillon-carriage.html
[19:38:12] <archivist_attic> he needs a cnc :)
[19:40:02] <andypugh> As far as I can see the only point of a tourbillon is to be difficult to make.
[19:41:55] <archivist_attic> it balances/averages an error or two so is slightly better if you are lucky
[19:43:41] <andypugh> It balances errors seen in the chronometer test room by simulating being worn...
[19:58:51] <cradek> surely that's a useful function though
[19:59:25] <cradek> the idea is great, but accelerating that added carriage mass is the tradeoff
[20:03:24] <andypugh> cradek: I read somewhere that it is a useful function for getting a better chronometer grading, but the effect is negligible on a watch that is being worn. Of course most tourbillon watches don't get worn...
[20:05:49] <cradek> sure, a tourbillon will have no vertical position variation, but they need powerful mainsprings so isochronism probably suffers (I think COSC tests temperature and positions, not isochronism, but I sure could be wrong)
[20:13:02] <Jymmm> LOL http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bar/1832339526.html
[21:43:38] <markusandroid> http://bambuser.com/channel/MarkusBec/broadcast/876762
[21:47:15] <seb_kuzminsky> cool markus :-)
[21:48:35] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, the "2" gets covered up with sawdust and it looks like it says "emc 4/axis", which is a bit surprising for a big router like that :-)
[21:50:14] <markusandroid> 7 month building time :)
[21:51:56] <cradek> neat! the new splash screen in wood!
[21:52:28] <cradek> what is the tool you used? it looks scary-long
[21:53:51] <markusandroid> 1,5mm vhm
[22:07:38] <bricofoy> good job markus :) your machine looks as big as mine. what are your max travel lengths ?
[22:10:23] <moop> tool pron!!!!
[22:13:22] <andypugh> I am struggling with my machining. It worked OK with key-steel, but now I am trying it with O1 the boring bar is not playing the game.
[22:13:53] <andypugh> I am considering grinding a boring bar up out of the shank of a 6mm solid carbid milling cutter.
[22:14:31] <andypugh> Any better ideas? I need to bore 11mm diameters inside a 7mm bore....
[22:14:41] <andypugh> In O1 tool steel.
[22:17:15] <archivist> or buy in a cutter, /me is trying to remember the makers of that type of tooling
[22:17:34] <andypugh> Horn?
[22:20:03] <archivist> yup http://www.phorn.co.uk/products/grooving/
[22:21:45] <andypugh> Thing is, the tooling from horn is about £500
[22:22:22] <archivist> I never asked the price I just drooled
[22:23:45] <archivist> probably easier to braze a small bit of carbide on something and just grinding the tip
[22:24:32] <cradek> what problem are you having exactly?
[22:26:14] <andypugh> The bar is too flexible to really cut
[22:27:59] <andypugh> Carbide is a lot stiffer.
[22:29:36] <andypugh> Gosh, look at page A14
[22:29:38] <andypugh> http://www.phorn.co.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/de/PDF/PDF_MINiKatalog_de_en/KapitelA.pdf
[22:31:23] <archivist> I have made my own mini boring tools, tis fun
[22:31:38] <andypugh> I can hardly see mine...
[22:32:14] <andypugh> I made the one that is failing.
[22:33:47] <cradek> seems like a brazed carbide tip won't help then
[22:34:42] <cradek> full carbide sure will though, if you can grind it
[22:34:42] <archivist> well it would cut where the current is probably rubbing and bending
[22:34:57] <andypugh> It would probably help a bit, by being a bit sharper (potentially) but the support would still be liminted.
[22:39:28] <morfic> andypugh: micro bars from solid shank sounds good
[22:39:48] <andypugh> Sounds difficult too,
[22:40:12] <andypugh> I have just realised that I might be able to do half from the front, and half from the back.
[22:40:28] <morfic> you are talking about an ID groove, right?
[22:42:05] <andypugh> Here is one I made earlier, out of easier-going metal. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/y7DmfyRa6U7VFXB_71JfzQ?feat=directlink
[22:42:20] <morfic> would just depend on what you have to remove enough material fast enough for you to not spend time and then give up with blisters on your fingers....
[22:43:43] <morfic> that your drawbar?
[22:43:53] <archivist> andypugh, other way, dont make from solid then cut to petals, make petals
[22:43:55] <andypugh> I need Horn part number R105.0150.1.7
[22:44:46] <andypugh> I am not sure how that helps, archivist, unless I persuade my lathe to only do half-turns...
[22:45:05] <archivist> milled
[22:45:41] <morfic> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2198922&PMT4NO=89059081 i was picturing something like that, ground to suit, could be made from a endmill shank and should do a decent job
[22:45:50] <andypugh> 6mm shank woodruff cutter? Might work
[22:47:16] <morfic> sounds like a lot of modifying would be needed
[22:48:06] <andypugh> Of course, grinding a carbide endmill shank is not the easiest of tasks
[22:49:04] <andypugh> But first, I am going to push my boring tool much further back in the holder and stop the program early.
[22:49:16] <morfic> i don't know if you would have a wheel for carbide in your shop to grind with
[22:49:39] <andypugh> The scale is rather more "Dremel" than "bench grinder"
[22:52:20] <morfic> although we are talking "only" a little over .078" clearance to do that cut
[22:52:27] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-HORN-Mini-Ausdrehstahle-R105-0150-2-5-TN35-Rech-MwSt-/110553905612?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Wendeschneidplatten&hash=item19bd86b9cc#ht_1990wt_913
[22:52:44] <andypugh> And I have a fiend in Germany
[22:53:41] <archivist> that seller is happy to ship anyway
[22:54:02] <andypugh> And I have the part numbers confused, that's the 1mm groove-depth one
[22:58:19] <andypugh> But I have found a 1.8mm groove depth one.
[22:58:34] <andypugh> Well, I guess it will still be there tomorrow
[22:59:54] <morfic> R/L105.0200.5.7 is that the one you want?
[23:00:06] <andypugh> Or 0150
[23:00:46] <andypugh> Well, only the R version
[23:02:45] <morfic> right, i pasted from catalog, where they just put R/L for us to pick :)
[23:05:09] <andypugh> I found a 5.6 variant, so if nothing else works I will buy that
[23:29:27] <andypugh> Hurrah!
[23:29:38] <andypugh> Much shorter overhang did the trick
[23:30:03] <andypugh> I need to rewrite the G-code to do the other half from the other end, but that can wait for tomorrow.