#emc | Logs for 2010-06-30

[12:54:45] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[13:18:17] <skunkworks_> is there a nice map program for linux that runs off line? (for planning trips and such?)
[13:18:51] <SWPadnos> google maps, just download all their data first :)
[13:19:07] <skunkworks_> heh - does that work?
[13:19:21] <skunkworks_> how many TB is required?
[13:19:22] <skunkworks_> ;)
[13:19:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:19:33] <SWPadnos> maybe: http://www.i10n.com/omd2
[13:20:34] <skunkworks_> interesting
[13:21:36] <SWPadnos> a google search also turns up other possible starting points: http://tuxmobil.org/linux_gps_navigation_applications.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
[13:21:59] <SWPadnos> I know there's an Android downloader app for OpenStreetMap
[13:22:21] <SWPadnos> there may be a Linux one too
[13:23:09] <SWPadnos> programs like StreetAtlas used to come on one CD, so I can imagine being able to get detailed enough maps with a few hours of downloading
[13:25:20] <skunkworks_> maybe tangogps also
[13:49:59] <alex_joni> hahaha: http://fukamachi.org/wp/wp-content/photo/misc/SysCallIIS.jpg
[14:59:07] <elmo40> foxtrot: how goes it?
[14:59:16] <elmo40> get a nice circle yet?
[16:05:26] <morficmobile> i think i just totally turned off the Siemens guy
[16:06:10] <morficmobile> will teach me not to say anything about "documentation" when talking to an unsuspecting sales guy
[16:17:31] <elmo40> lol
[16:27:22] <awallin> anyone know what the actual maximum step-frequency and/or encoder input frequency is with hostmot2 and an m5i20 card?
[16:27:48] <awallin> the manual talks about 100MHz frequency for the FPGA, but what is the max stepgen output or encoder count input?
[16:28:20] <awallin> (I was asked how much better an m5i20 is compared to the parport on this forum you see...)
[16:28:39] <cradek> those are two separate questions
[16:29:10] <awallin> ok
[16:29:11] <awallin> ok
[16:29:22] <cradek> 7i33 has selectable input filters/receivers and the max count rate is 4 million or 40 million counts per second accordingly
[16:30:18] <awallin> that is plenty
[16:30:34] <awallin> the fpga stepgen probably blows away any 10 or 20 khz parport stepgen also...
[16:30:43] <cradek> well of course
[16:31:45] <cradek> surely it's limited by the timing requirement of the drives, not the fpga - especially if they are opto inputs
[16:31:49] <cradek> also I bet most encoders can't generate those count rates - I know us digital's sure can't
[16:33:42] <cradek> us digital's E2 encoder has maximum count frequency of 100 kHz
[16:35:27] <cradek> a very expensive differential encoder might be over 1MHz but I doubt 10MHz - wonder where we could find numbers
[16:35:42] <cradek> (I found E2 specs hidden here:) http://usdigital.com/products/encoders/incremental/rotary/kit/e2/
[16:37:34] <cradek> I suspect hostmot2 stepgen could generate steps at 5MHz but no drive in the world would read it
[16:37:38] <SWPadnos> I think BEI has a limit of about 400 kHz or so
[16:37:42] <cradek> lunch, brb
[16:37:54] <SWPadnos> though I think you get 4x that, since that's a per-channel frequency
[16:50:17] <pcw_home> US digital has maximum cycle rate of 100 KHz = 400 KHz maximum count rate
[16:59:34] <mshaver> Just FYI - Most stepper drives have a 200kHz limit. Some Chinese drives and I believe also the newer Geckos are 400kHz. Since the Chinese drives have adjustable microstepping ratios, I set them as high as practical and them max out the drive bandwidth with the Mesa card.
[17:09:32] <SWPadnos> mshaver, have you ever checked to see how well those Chinese drives hold at the "in-between" positions?
[17:09:35] <elmo40> your limiting factor is still your motors ability to transfer each step pulse withought missing a beat.
[17:10:35] <mshaver> SWPadnos: No. Do you mean their holding torque, or positional accuracy?
[17:10:42] <SWPadnos> yes :)
[17:11:10] <SWPadnos> and also positional accuracy with somewhat of a torque load on them (like a light brake or something)
[17:12:24] <mshaver> No, I haven't dome any of this.
[17:12:42] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[17:15:18] <tom3p> whats the web interface to archives of emc-users & emc-dev email?
[17:15:57] <cradek> gmane.org is one
[17:18:14] <tom3p> thanks!
[17:20:45] <bootnecklad> needs more peter gabriel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6oleUh83z4
[17:35:01] <MattyMatt> opto inputs are good to 4Mhz afaik
[17:35:33] <MattyMatt> I remember an Elektor project with bare IR led and opto transistor with 4Mhz bandwidth
[17:36:25] <MattyMatt> it used fresnel lenses to send video up to 100m
[17:36:51] <SWPadnos> response speed varies (a lot)
[17:37:30] <MattyMatt> yeah I should look at some datasheets before declaring truths
[17:37:47] <Jymmm> didnt frenzel lenses go out in the 70's ?
[17:38:20] <MattyMatt> that's when the plastic ones came in :)
[17:39:03] <MattyMatt> back projection TVs
[17:40:19] <tom3p> split the fresnel lens ( they're a sandwich) shove dead laptop's lcd in between, put bright light behind, focus onto screen = el cheapo video projector
[17:46:42] <MattyMatt> lumenlabs special :)
[17:58:27] <alex_chally> tom3p, I was considering throwing one of those together
[17:58:33] <alex_chally> but commercial projectors are getting so cheap
[17:58:49] <alex_chally> and fuck only knows I don't need another LCD in my house
[17:59:35] <alex_chally> with the new housemate next month there will be.... 9 of them between 6 computers in a 900sqft house
[17:59:47] <alex_chally> 1100?
[17:59:50] <alex_chally> something like that
[18:46:49] <andypugh> http://www.pastebin.org/368434
[18:46:52] <andypugh> Oh dear
[18:48:20] <micges> what emc version?
[18:48:37] <andypugh> 2.5.0~pre
[18:48:43] <andypugh> (Line 3)
[18:48:59] <micges> pulled today?
[18:49:13] <andypugh> Yes
[18:49:25] <cradek> oops did I bust lathes?
[18:49:37] <andypugh> It's all busted
[18:50:41] <cradek> nah, it's not... I've been using it
[18:51:01] <andypugh> Sorry, I mean all my configs are busted.
[18:51:18] <skunkworks_> nml issue?
[18:51:27] <cradek> no
[18:51:33] <andypugh> is mm/slub.c one of ours?
[18:51:52] <cradek> ?
[18:52:37] <andypugh> Different config, look at line 139: http://www.pastebin.org/368447
[18:53:11] <cradek> ouch
[18:53:45] <cradek> master (sim/lathe) runs for me
[18:54:19] <andypugh> I am beginning to regret only having master on my "production" machine
[18:55:01] <micges> master is not for production machines
[18:55:35] <cradek> andypugh: I think you should clean and rebuild. I don't understand what's wrong with your AXIS. You must have it half-built or something.
[18:55:43] <andypugh> I used "production" advisedly.
[18:56:01] <cradek> check your computer's clock?
[18:56:08] <cradek> brb
[18:56:46] <andypugh> clock looks fine
[18:58:17] <micges> andypugh: here on master there are different line numbers in glcanon.py as in your log
[18:58:42] <andypugh> Is there a way to view scrolled-away compiler warnings?
[18:59:00] <andypugh> Oh.
[18:59:01] <Jymmm> SHIFT+PGUP
[18:59:13] <micges> I strongly recommend: make clean; git pull --rebase; make & sudo make setuid
[18:59:22] <andypugh> Jymmm: I sort of meant _just_ the warnings
[18:59:55] <andypugh> micges: OK, but what about my drivers and kins modules?
[19:00:59] <micges> oh
[19:01:31] <micges> so type 'git log' and paste first commit number that will list out
[19:02:32] <andypugh> Too late now, I am compiling a fresh pull of master.
[19:03:26] <micges> fresh pull works fine here
[19:04:47] <andypugh> There is a lot to be said for a clean start. I can add the kins and brushless motor drivers once it is working.
[19:05:33] <micges> surely
[20:54:32] <cncjunky> oh, glad I found this room finally. Shall I assume many here are cnc DIYers?
[20:56:02] <KimK> Yes, indeed. Almost all using EMC2, but there are a few using other softwares as well.
[21:02:48] <andypugh> Other softwares? Heresy!
[21:04:19] <JT-Hardinge> cncjunky: you might say that yes
[21:04:27] <KimK> andypugh: Haha, well, part of our purpose here is to enlighten the uninformed.
[21:04:35] <mIreland> KimK: you are working on Kasuga mills, right?
[21:04:41] <JT-Hardinge> if they are still on the dark side they are soon to come over
[21:05:08] <JT-Hardinge> and misinformed
[21:05:26] <mIreland> haha, darkside... are we meaning Mach? are there others?
[21:05:43] <andypugh> mIreland: Haas, Fanuc....
[21:05:45] <KimK> mIreland: Well, I claim to be doing work on some Kasugas, although I haven't done much lately, lol.
[21:06:30] <KimK> mIreland: I am (like many of us) still looking for that round tuit.
[21:06:40] <mIreland> You certainly were saying the right words, before. Ours has been slow going, but we are up to the config stage.
[21:06:44] <JT-Hardinge> I had one once KimK but lost it
[21:06:54] <mIreland> and now I'm pretty stumped.
[21:07:18] <JT-Hardinge> hows that?
[21:07:20] <KimK> What did you do about the tool changer?
[21:07:23] <mIreland> have you eer finished one?
[21:07:33] <mIreland> ever, i mean
[21:08:14] <mIreland> we are ingoring the TC until the rest can make chips
[21:08:14] <KimK> * KimK liked 'ere better, it sounded more poetic
[21:08:22] <mIreland> don't tempt me...
[21:08:30] <mIreland> :)
[21:09:20] <JT-Hardinge> seems like they make all tool holders tool long now a days just so you have to cut them off to fit them in your turret
[21:09:29] <mIreland> the 3 servo drives should still function fine, but I'm curious about if there's enable lines...
[21:09:54] <mIreland> looks like no, but I'm not certain.
[21:10:05] <KimK> Yes, that's what I did, so it's working with manual tool changes. I've got one more ladder section to write, but I want to hook up my traveling demo Mesa cards to get a proper run.
[21:11:29] <KimK> Yes, I recall enable lines, I'll check after while. I assume yours has the usual small Westamp rack loaded with 3 of 4 cards?
[21:12:51] <mIreland> yup. and while it appears that six lines go to the board which goes to the amps, the 3 which should be enable lines appear(by eye, at least)to lead nowhere
[21:13:12] <mIreland> do you have any docs for those amps?
[21:15:05] <mIreland> Maybe it won't matter. We have them wired in, I just haven't fired them off to test yet.
[21:15:49] <mIreland> recovered from our little smashed encoder incident, now we's back in the saddle again...
[21:18:06] <KimK> In fact, I think I switched to a normally closed relay to do that, so it would drop closed on power-off to disable? I'll have to check though.
[21:18:19] <KimK> I think I have at least a pinout, let me look.
[21:18:47] <mIreland> that wd be a be a big help; there is nothing screened onto the boards that I can see
[21:21:30] <mIreland> I suspect we will find that you did in fact have to add relays.
[21:29:08] <KimK> Drat, I can't find the info as a computer file, let me check my tablet of notes. Thanks for your patience.
[21:30:03] <mIreland> No problem KimK. is there a way I could look at your config files?
[21:30:34] <mIreland> I have questions that I could answer without asking that way...
[21:41:36] <KimK> OK, I found my handwritten copy of whatever I wrote down from what must have been his manuals. Give me a few minutes to type something up and I'll post it on pastebin.
[21:44:08] <KimK> Sanity check: do your amplifiers have a 12-pin control connector (finer pitch, lower current), and a what, 8-pin (?) motor/power connector (coarser pitch, higher current)? And the latter wired in pairs of pins?
[21:44:28] <KimK> Oops, dinner break, back in a bit.
[21:45:08] <mIreland> enjoy :)
[22:08:23] <cncjunky> anyone used an arduino as the controller?
[22:08:37] <mIreland> ahh, now I see how I did this before! I bought a GS2 VFD so I could use the module. This time, we are attempting to use the one that came with the machine. Can anybody walk me through this process?
[22:10:34] <andypugh> cncjunky: Controller for what?
[22:10:45] <cncjunky> a cnc
[22:11:12] <mIreland> i think you'll need a whole computicator, to do it this way...
[22:11:21] <andypugh> I have persuaded an Arduino to be a resolver convertor and a servo driver. I am part-eay through making one into a VFD.
[22:11:42] <andypugh> No way an Arduino has the CPU and memory to be a CNC>
[22:12:15] <tom3p> ot: have 4th of July fireworks displays been squashed all over the country? My usual haunts say 'Cancelled' :(
[22:12:24] <mIreland> wow! what kind of performance are you getting with those?
[22:12:29] <cncjunky> actually, it's been done. Found a few youtubes on it. But like I said, controller only
[22:12:59] <frallzor> but they are slow
[22:13:11] <lepton> The STM32 based leaflabs Arduino compatible board is an interesting option for CNC hardware
[22:13:22] <lepton> 72Mhz, overclockable to something over 100Mhz
[22:13:39] <lepton> Lots more IO
[22:14:12] <cncjunky> you mean something like this? http://www.robotshop.com/seeedstudio-seeeduino-mega-v1-1-microcontroller-4.html
[22:15:13] <andypugh> mIreland: was the performance query to me?
[22:16:09] <mIreland> yah, on the arduino stuff. they are cheaper than the things you are replacing with them
[22:17:12] <mIreland> limited power, i expect...
[22:18:20] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyeJfNg3NfQ
[22:19:38] <cncjunky> lepton, thanks for that info. That seems to have a kick to it. I believe you're talking about this one? http://www.robotshop.com/New-arrivals/leaflabs-maple-32-bit-arduino-compatible-microcontroller.html
[22:20:34] <lepton> yeap!
[22:20:48] <cncjunky> the seeed one could have a 256KB/64-pin version: ATmega2561 chip
[22:21:17] <lepton> cncjunky: The leaflabs guys are very friendly, they've got an irc channel on freenode, #leafblowers
[22:22:00] <cncjunky> ah, thanks
[22:22:00] <cncjunky> obviously I'm new to freenode :)
[22:29:46] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[22:33:01] <cncjunky> >brb, gotta move car... I'll lose my connection :P
[22:33:18] <genehacker> wardriving?
[22:33:26] <andypugh> That was my thought.
[22:33:47] <genehacker> you need a bigger antenna!
[22:34:07] <andypugh> cantenna ftw
[22:34:16] <genehacker> yagi FTW
[22:34:30] <andypugh> wiretap!
[22:34:43] <genehacker> hmmmm... I should test my yagi right now, it's raining and I wonder if it effects performance
[22:35:33] <tom3p> co-tanga antenna http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/ (was a joke, turned out to be a coat hangar)
[22:46:27] <morfic> Machinist needed to operate Manual Lathe. Candidate MUST have extensive Manual Lathe and Drill experience.Capable of dimension checks and able to read tape measure, calipers, blueprints and FL experience. M-F 7-4pm. (must be open to over time) Candidate must pass tape measure test! Pay Based on experience. Please submit pay request with resume." Not sure i could work there
[22:50:18] <cncjunky> just driving around the farm
[22:50:36] <cncjunky> on a dairy, only 12,000 cows on this one
[22:53:54] <frallzor> hmm should I make myself a new machine...
[22:55:44] <frallzor> a nice mdf-machine would be fun
[23:01:39] <cncjunky> not easy to keep a connection in the car :(
[23:37:06] <cradek> morfic: what is FL experience?
[23:37:37] <cradek> flashlight?
[23:37:48] <cradek> (wonder what a tape measure test is...)
[23:37:48] <atmega> FleshLight
[23:38:06] <cradek> ?
[23:40:02] <frallzor> cradek you have to spell it so they can see that one can read
[23:42:49] <Valen> lol
[23:44:58] <frallzor> tepe messure
[23:45:06] <frallzor> sorry, no job for you!
[23:47:34] <JT-Hardinge> well I didn't get either one :(
[23:47:52] <cradek> darn
[23:48:30] <andypugh> A friend of my dad's once offered me a job "it's easy" he said "all you need to be able to do is machine to a tenth". Considering that I have always been happy to be right to a thou I declined.
[23:48:52] <atmega> he didn't mean a tenth of a thou?
[23:48:57] <andypugh> He did.
[23:49:11] <andypugh> But I can't.
[23:49:47] <atmega> I'm pretty happy now with just a tenth
[23:50:07] <andypugh> Of course he might have had better lathes than my dad's workshop, who has never paid more than scrap price for any machine tool.
[23:50:08] <atmega> but, I'm not a machinist.
[23:50:20] <cradek> I machine to a tenth all the time (it's when you want a particular one that it gets tricky)
[23:50:28] <atmega> heh
[23:50:45] <cradek> in addition to my machining skills, I excel at pedantry
[23:50:46] <andypugh> Yes, if you can name your tenth afterwards it's fine.
[23:50:54] <cradek> exactly
[23:51:51] <andypugh> There is a serious point there, I seem to be constantly reminding people that it doesn't necessarily matter how tightly you control your experimental variables as long as you can measure the ones you used accurately enough.
[23:53:22] <andypugh> (A similar point is that an experimental result is never wrong, but it might not be the result from the experiment you thought you were performing)
[23:53:50] <cncjunky> as long as you can reproduce an action.
[23:54:28] <salvarane> hello
[23:54:48] <DaViruz> remind me, what is a "thou"?
[23:54:57] <DaViruz> 1/1000" ?
[23:55:12] <cncjunky> thousandthththththththth
[23:55:14] <cradek> yes
[23:55:34] <andypugh> Typically they are worrying about coolant and intake air temperature (which are very hard to control). The point is that you can measure them very accurately, and in the real world the vehicle will be subjected to the full range.
[23:55:36] <Valen> whats that in real numbers ;->
[23:55:38] <cncjunky> * cncjunky remembers his teacher doing the "thththththth"
[23:55:49] <alex_chally> * alex_chally waves
[23:56:02] <DaViruz> a tenth then would be a tenth of a thou?
[23:56:18] <alex_chally> DaViruz, without any context, yes
[23:56:21] <DaViruz> as in 1/10000"?
[23:56:23] <DaViruz> i see
[23:56:25] <alex_chally> .0001"
[23:56:33] <DaViruz> and you are all happy with these units?
[23:56:54] <Valen> 0.00254 mm
[23:57:03] <alex_chally> are we having a chat about the problems with the imperial system /
[23:57:14] <salvarane> I have receved this error to prove run emc 2.4.0 kernel patch rtai equals verson to kernel http://pastebin.com/qEupK7iE
[23:57:17] <Valen> we can just bareley measure that with our grinding rated linear scales on our mill
[23:57:27] <DaViruz> i didn't intend to start a unit war no :)
[23:57:36] <salvarane> OS ubuntu lucid
[23:57:44] <Valen> we have .001 mm scales
[23:58:08] <Valen> salvarane: you want to speak to MattyMatt as I recall, he has been mucking with it
[23:58:28] <andypugh> 6.636319 lp
[23:58:34] <alex_chally> I spent 4 hours today making a fixture plate for a angle plate that was flat to within .0002" and then squaring it up to the table to within .0002" or so
[23:58:39] <alex_chally> it sucked
[23:58:48] <andypugh> 6.636319 x 10 -34 lp, I mean
[23:58:58] <andypugh> No I don't
[23:59:01] <Valen> though it looks like your having problems because rtai is already loaded
[23:59:21] <Valen> try a sudo rmmod rtai_hal first
[23:59:30] <andypugh> one thou is 1.57153 e 34 lp
[23:59:54] <alex_chally> lp?
[23:59:56] <DaViruz> what's a lp?