#emc | Logs for 2010-06-16

[00:16:44] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: !
[00:35:06] <Jymmm> skunkworks: !
[00:59:52] <JPM_MILL> 2.565+.3
[01:00:43] <SWPadnos> 2.865
[01:01:13] <JPM_MILL> sorry wrong window lol
[01:01:58] <SWPadnos> darn. I thought I might win a prize or somethig
[01:02:02] <SWPadnos> thing
[01:02:33] <bricofoy> lol
[01:29:49] <skunkworks> Jymmm: !
[01:29:51] <morfic> \o/ only one more job and the small mill gets taken down to get ball screws redone
[01:31:12] <skunkworks> with these? http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/ballscrew.JPG
[01:32:11] <Valen> morfic replace it with linear motors FTW!
[01:33:07] <bricofoy> I hope he won a lottery or something :)
[01:33:42] <skunkworks> we have a couple of large format printers that have linear motors on them - pretty cool
[01:33:48] <bricofoy> Oo
[01:34:23] <bricofoy> very rare printer, indeed :P
[01:34:35] <skunkworks> na - just very expensive..
[01:34:41] <bricofoy> yep
[01:34:52] <skunkworks> Gandi iirc
[01:37:52] <Valen> speedy too i'd imagine
[01:38:21] <morfic> i bet our mill has smaller ballscrews than that, lathes' Z is about that size
[01:38:58] <morfic> why do you talk about printers and then say Gandi ?
[01:40:31] <morfic> owner of a company i used to work for, where we made 5' to 16' printers, his name was Gandi
[01:40:44] <Valen> http://www.gandinnovations.com/ looks like they used to be a printer manufacturer
[01:44:08] <morfic> i guess signtech, salsa digtal, salsa digital printer, gandi innovations, signtech became salsa digital, after selling vinyl part of business, salsa digital was sold by Gandi to NUR (israeli company)
[01:44:30] <morfic> wonder if same Gandi, considering the size of printers making it look less than coincidental
[01:46:15] <morfic> "We developed these programs to help our customers grow their skill sets and business" says Hary Gandy, Gandinnovations? President based out of corporate offices in San Antonio, Texas..."
[01:46:27] <morfic> i always confused the i and y in their last name
[01:46:53] <morfic> thought Hary was his brother, never quite saw through the mess of LLCs they had and sold in between one to other
[01:46:55] <skunkworks> I think agfa bought them out...
[01:47:05] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: !
[01:47:05] <morfic> was fun machining the parts for the print heads
[01:47:18] <morfic> skunkworks: yeah as the link Valen pasted indicates
[01:47:59] <tom3p> cradek, (MSG, blah) works fine thx again
[01:48:01] <skunkworks> ah
[01:48:24] <tom3p> were the print heads carbide wire guides? did some of those
[01:48:38] <morfic> they made little to no profit on printers, but tied warranty to their own special inks
[01:48:47] <morfic> they made killing on inks
[01:49:38] <morfic> until someone wrapped an invoice to salsa digital into an end customer order, bought for like $5/unit but sold for something like $75/unit, after that, ink prices dropped and they could not keep up
[01:50:09] <morfic> i jumped ship months before that went down, i guess i do get lucky once in a while
[01:53:17] <Valen> printer ink is the biggest rip ever
[01:53:26] <Valen> they sell it for more than gold in some cases
[01:55:12] <morfic> small world, first time i see anyone refer to them on IRC
[01:58:42] <skunkworks> I think we have a few ganis, mimakis, and indigos.
[01:59:04] <skunkworks> gerber also - but that uses film inks....
[01:59:16] <skunkworks> we don't use that much
[01:59:56] <skunkworks> when I say 'we' I mean the company I work for/
[04:01:07] <SteveStallings> SteveStallings is now known as steves_logging
[06:16:11] <KimK> KimK_onjava: So how's that embedded java client for IRC at http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_mospjirc/Itemid,8/lang,en/ working out?
[06:16:19] <KimK_onjava> KimK: Not too bad. I never tried it before. I had to OK it as an unrecognized app. There's no nick autocompletion, probably other missing features. But overall, pretty good.
[06:16:45] <KimK> OK, thanks. Bye.
[06:16:53] <KimK_onjava> Bye.
[06:17:36] <KimK> * KimK thinks it must be late, I'm talking to myself~
[07:34:17] <elmo40> can we say milking the price a little? http://qurl.org/z01
[07:50:18] <elmo40> I wonder when the changes will take place... when flash12 comes out? http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html
[15:19:14] <Jymmm> Morning
[15:22:41] <pcw_home> timezoneist!
[15:28:14] <jthornton> home made smoked Canadian bacon, extra sharp white cheddar cheese and a cold beer :) what a lunch!
[15:28:31] <Jymmm> jthornton: asshole
[15:28:40] <SWPadnos> -beer, +eggs and I agree
[15:28:51] <Jymmm> jthornton: SHARE BIOTCH!
[15:29:15] <jthornton> come and get some Jymmm
[15:29:32] <Jymmm> jthornton: One my way! =)
[15:31:13] <jthornton> I just finished slicing up 5lbs of the Canadian bacon so there should be some left when you get here
[15:31:48] <Jymmm> Actually, I lust the extra sharp white cheddar
[15:33:30] <jthornton> that is my favorite cheese for sure
[15:35:09] <jthornton> time for a nap now :)
[15:38:31] <SWPadnos> http://www.cabotcheese.coop/pages/our_products/products.php?catID=4
[15:39:01] <jthornton> that's the one I buy
[15:39:10] <SWPadnos> yep, it's the best
[15:39:16] <jthornton> the seriously sharp cheddar
[15:39:20] <SWPadnos> at least, the best that's mass-produced :)
[15:39:54] <SWPadnos> there are some local farms here that have excellent cheeses too, including the best smoked cheddar
[15:40:09] <SWPadnos> (cabot is close to 2 hours drive from here, so I don't consider it local :) )
[15:40:19] <jthornton> I've never tried a smoked cheddar
[15:40:39] <Jymmm> smoked guda (sp) is good
[15:41:03] <SWPadnos> Shelburne Farms smoked cheddar is fantastic
[15:41:19] <SWPadnos> http://www.shelburnefarms.org/products.asp?dept=15
[15:41:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Great, add it to my wish list
[15:41:25] <jthornton> what kind of wood do they smoke it with?
[15:41:34] <SWPadnos> hickory
[15:41:36] <Jymmm> pressure treated
[15:42:08] <Jymmm> It's to DIE for....
[15:42:13] <cradek> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Grand-Reserve-Cheddar/dp/B0000D9MTI
[15:42:16] <jthornton> I need to make a cold smoke adapter for my smoker so I can smoke things like cheese
[15:42:39] <cradek> "1 Used and new from $19.99"
[15:42:47] <SWPadnos> heh, eww
[15:42:59] <SWPadnos> cradek, don't make me bring cheddar cheese to CNC Workshop :)
[15:43:16] <cradek> I hope you bring your fancypants coffee again...
[15:43:31] <SWPadnos> well, since I'm flying, I don't know if that will work
[15:43:48] <cradek> ah, I didn't know you were flying
[15:43:50] <SWPadnos> can you bring a coffee pot?
[15:43:56] <SWPadnos> majer
[15:43:59] <SWPadnos> maker
[15:44:08] <cradek> unfortunately I'm already packed
[15:44:23] <SWPadnos> wait, we can steal jmkasunich's
[15:44:27] <Jymmm> cradek: tape it to the rof
[15:44:28] <SWPadnos> but he doesn't drink coffee
[15:44:28] <cradek> I just have a french press, anyway - I don't think my drip machine works anymore
[15:45:02] <SWPadnos> if it's been that long, we don't want to use it anyway :)
[15:45:04] <Jymmm> could always make camp coffee
[15:45:12] <SWPadnos> might as well just eat the beans
[15:45:46] <Jymmm> I think camp coffee is the best actually
[15:46:06] <Jymmm> at least the way I make it seems to make it rich
[15:46:08] <cradek> that's pretty much what you get with a french press - it just helps you get (most) of the grounds out
[15:47:32] <cradek> I agree you get a better flavor that way than with drip
[15:47:42] <Jymmm> no perculator, http://www.oncoffeemakers.com/images/camping-coffee-pot-1.jpg
[15:48:44] <tom3p> vacuum coffee makers ( old school, the grounds is the filter :)
[15:49:31] <Jymmm> I toss the coffee into coffee filter, then tie closed using unwaxed dental floss. Toss a couple of those in the pot, add water, and toss on the fire. No more CHEWING your camp coffee =)
[15:51:05] <cradek> Jymmm: interesting - I'll remember that trick
[15:52:23] <Jymmm> cradek: Works great, jsut make a bunch of them up toss into a zip bag, and store in the pot till your ready to use. No measuring, no spilling, and just burn in your fire when done.
[15:54:09] <tom3p> well, happy camping !
[15:54:21] <Jymmm> Yeah, I had one of those aluminum perkuclators, was the nastiest tasting thing ever!
[15:55:23] <Jymmm> I hate cooking with aluminum as it is.
[16:01:56] <Jymmm> If you ever cook bacon while camping and have no hot water to wash the pan and the grease just solidifies instead, just toss the cast iron pan in the fire! Will be nice and clean for your next meal =)
[16:03:01] <Jymmm> Any seasoning of the pan will be gone too =)
[16:06:54] <skunkworks> I thought that was a bad thing...
[16:07:54] <Jymmm> it usually is
[16:09:46] <Jymmm> So either a) dont cook bacon, or b) have hot water =)
[16:09:59] <pcw_home> Despite the little extra care needed, I really like cast iron frying pans best
[16:10:01] <pcw_home> they last more than a lifetime....
[16:10:54] <cradek> I made the mistake of covering some biscuit type stuff with aluminum foil (in a cast iron pan) and putting it in the fridge for a few days
[16:11:30] <SWPadnos> you could have polished silverware with that setup
[16:11:31] <cradek> I think it made a battery - it ate holes in the foil where it touched the biscuit, and the bottom of the biscuit was black and nasty, and the seasoning was gone from the pan
[16:11:36] <SWPadnos> (real silver that is)
[16:12:43] <cradek> I don't remember if it was biscuit or cornbread - some kind of buttermilk/baking powder concoction
[16:12:44] <pcw_home> Ive done that with spaghetti sauce in a stainless steel bowl
[16:12:46] <pcw_home> nice holes in the foil and gray sauce
[16:12:51] <cradek> bleh
[16:13:15] <cradek> science ruined my food
[16:15:33] <skunkworks> I blame science all the time. ;)
[16:17:28] <skunkworks> so my laptop stopped booting lucid. (blank screen) uninstalled the closed source ati drivers and now it boots agian. An update yesterday must have borked something. But the default ati driver seems to play just fine with opengl
[16:20:49] <skunkworks> stupid question - in CL - can you move rungs down - or can you only insert another 'section' or whatever it is called.
[16:23:08] <cradek> maybe you can add another section above an existing one?
[16:23:17] <cradek> there's certainly no cut/paste
[16:26:18] <skunkworks> that is what I figured.. I guess redoing a sections worth of ladder isn't a big deal.
[16:26:59] <skunkworks> 'but all I need is space for one more rung - here' ;)
[16:27:23] <SWPadnos> rung placement shouldn't matter, at least not within a single section
[16:27:24] <cradek> it sure isn't a great gui.
[16:27:54] <SWPadnos> (shouldn't matter across sections either, but I don't know for sure that the code does things the "right" way)
[16:27:54] <skunkworks> it does when you are trying to parallel contacts..
[16:28:00] <SWPadnos> no, shouldn't
[16:28:14] <SWPadnos> err, yes, that should I guess :)
[16:28:22] <skunkworks> (and you have no room anymore to parallel contacts ) ;)
[16:28:50] <skunkworks> maybe I should have double-spaced the ladder ;)
[16:53:08] <cradek> yeah I like to keep each rung (?) pretty sparse, at least at first
[16:53:18] <cradek> seems like it doesn't hurt to use more of them
[16:53:53] <Jymmm> 10 LPRINT CHR$(12)
[16:53:54] <Jymmm> 20 GOTO 10
[16:56:51] <SWPadnos> there should be an "insert rung" button
[16:57:11] <SWPadnos> Add / Insert / Delete
[16:59:57] <SWPadnos> hmmm. except that it does the same thing as add, since it just calls that function
[16:59:59] <SWPadnos> boneheads
[17:09:41] <jthornton> SWPadnos, there is an Add, Insert, Delete, and Modify button in ClassicLadder
[17:13:01] <jthornton> * jthornton wanders off to the other shop to replace the battery in the brain of my Anilam Mill
[17:51:53] <frallzor> hmmm 8mm endmill and 5mm per pass in wood, sounds fair?
[18:21:59] <fragalot> frallzor: depends on the wood?
[18:28:00] <micges> yay! today we managed to run fiber laser from Rufin
[18:28:26] <micges> 1kW
[18:36:09] <lepton> Hello all. After switching motherboards I'm finally up and running with 8.04 (hurray). I'm going through step config, and will be running a Mesa PCI anything i/o card. The step config dialog wants me to list parallel port pins. Should I just click through that and not worry about it?
[18:38:26] <cradek> lepton: stepconf generates a config that uses the parallel port for step/dir. That is the only configuration type it generates.
[18:39:00] <cradek> lepton: It sounds like you need to start with one of the sample mesa configs instead. When you run it, it will offer to make a copy of the configuration in your home directory, so you can modify it there. You should say yes to this question.
[18:39:11] <lepton> Ah, that makes sense
[18:39:13] <cradek> lepton: so just run the sample configuration that matches the mesa hardware you have.
[18:39:24] <lepton> Cool!
[18:39:31] <lepton> I'll get to work on that now. Thanks!
[18:42:00] <skunkworks> are packages being built still for offline install?
[18:44:32] <frallzor> fragalot lets say oak
[18:46:59] <fragalot> frallzor: no idea ^__^
[18:47:07] <fragalot> I always go too slow >.>
[18:47:59] <jthornton> and watch for fire
[18:49:18] <lepton> What's the status of pncconf for mesa hardware configuration?
[18:50:33] <jthornton> it's alpha I think
[18:51:39] <jthornton> lepton, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_pncconf.html
[18:52:40] <jthornton> it's not on the menu yet but you can start it from the terminal in 2.4.1
[18:52:43] <lepton> jthornton: thanks, I hadn't seen that, I was look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Pncconf
[18:53:28] <jthornton> I just started that section so it is a bit lacking atm but at least you can see how to start it up
[18:55:50] <lepton> hmm, it appears that I don't have pncconf as a terminal command. Perhaps this is because I haven't done and apt-get update because I'm in a crappy part of town with no internet access? (writing this over a 3g connection on another computer)
[18:57:56] <Jymmm> jthornton: "pncconf is a graphical configuration program...". You can use it to make custom GUI interfaces?
[19:45:18] <frallzor> hmm if my spindles base freq. = 300Hz = 2kW how much can I expect it to perform at say 50Hz?
[19:51:47] <SWPadnos> jthornton, I saw that those 3 buttons get created, but on further inspection (of the code), I also saw that the insert button just does an add
[19:56:27] <fragalot> frallzor: heat issues if it doesn't have forced cooling? :P
[19:57:00] <frallzor> doesnt I assume
[19:57:09] <fragalot> frallzor: but iirc, the torque remains the same at lower frequencies, but lowers in a logarithmic function if you go over
[19:58:08] <celeron55> torque remains the same = power decreases linearly with speed
[19:58:43] <SWPadnos> and above the rated speed/frequency, power remains the same but torque falls off (like a stepper)
[19:59:11] <frallzor> I see
[20:37:45] <skunkworks> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=788864#post788864
[20:37:51] <frallzor> * frallzor loves teflon lube
[20:38:01] <frallzor> made the mills day
[20:41:06] <alex|lappy> * alex|lappy waves
[20:42:31] <JT-Hardinge> skunkworks: that is funny
[20:43:10] <skunkworks> alex|lappy: new toy?
[20:43:17] <skunkworks> JT-Hardinge: heh
[20:43:31] <alex|lappy> skunkworks, well, kinda :D
[20:43:39] <alex|lappy> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=788127#post788127
[20:43:52] <alex|lappy> I started a build thread yesterday, but I think I did it in the wrong section because knee mills is dead
[20:44:03] <alex|lappy> but I don't want to look like a douche crossposting it
[20:44:27] <frallzor> is that some sort of BP clone?
[20:44:38] <alex|lappy> it is a little bigger
[20:44:41] <frallzor> reminds me of BP =)
[20:44:41] <alex|lappy> 19" of Y travel
[20:44:55] <alex|lappy> 38" of X
[20:45:13] <frallzor> looks nice
[20:45:17] <alex|lappy> it is... well loved :D
[20:45:39] <alex|lappy> i got it over the winter and have been so busy with school that I just had it set up as a manual machine
[20:46:05] <alex|lappy> I need to get a little cherry picker so I can pull the head, table, knee etc
[20:46:18] <alex|lappy> sand it, paint it, figure out all the mounting stuff for new ballscrews etc etc
[20:47:20] <alex|lappy> her name is Indy, she is my baby
[20:51:23] <andypugh> What do folks think of this thing: (It might well have factory fited ballscrews) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110500431228
[20:51:26] <skunkworks> neat - I thought you where a different alex ;)
[20:51:42] <andypugh> He has hinted he will take £850, which still seems steep.
[20:52:34] <alex|lappy> skunkworks, hmm, are you saying my name is not unique? i am not a beautiful snowflake?
[20:53:16] <andypugh> Snowflakes are sometimes the same too.
[20:53:19] <skunkworks> sorry - I cannot comment on either ;)
[21:00:32] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm tool change had just started skipping a tool in a program but works fine in MDI
[21:00:56] <JT-Hardinge> If I call for tool 4 in a program it loads 5 then spins around and loads 4 :?
[21:03:42] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, there ought to be a wiki page that lists the actual package download locations for various emc2 versions
[21:05:48] <skunkworks> ought to be - or is? (honestly though - it is a billion times easier if you are hooked to the internet)
[21:06:00] <SWPadnos> nonetheless, not everyone is all the time
[21:06:05] <SWPadnos> ought to be :)
[21:06:09] <skunkworks> ah ;)
[21:06:20] <SWPadnos> and why download 6 times if you have 6 machines?
[21:06:35] <archivist> hard to imagine not being connected :)
[21:06:44] <skunkworks> aw - stop sounding so practical
[21:07:04] <SWPadnos> sorry - character flaw
[21:08:00] <archivist> andypugh, ex boss paid 850 for a similar beast
[21:08:28] <andypugh> Does he regret it? Was it ballscrews?
[21:09:43] <andypugh> I wish I had bid higher on that Deckel. (it went for £790)
[21:11:18] <lepton> How should I go about getting pncconf setup on an 8.04 stable release?
[21:12:19] <lepton> I can also just stop bothering and work with config files directly, but it seems like it'd be nice to use for setting up Mesa hardware
[21:14:13] <archivist> andypugh, dunno what screws were on it /me just looking in the pic dir to find it
[21:14:14] <jthornton> lepton, you need EMC 2.4 for pncconf
[21:17:45] <andypugh> Another attempt at the world's most boring and specialist Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47y6RgAK--8
[21:18:54] <lepton> Okay, I presume doing the update following this guide should get me there: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.4
[21:20:26] <skunkworks> andypugh: what kind of following error difference do you get between the two?
[21:20:48] <andypugh> They both get within 0.001mm during the pause.
[21:21:07] <andypugh> I haven't looked too carefully at the rapid.
[21:25:13] <skunkworks> I think jonE made a comment that unless you did a Fourier analysis you couldn't tell that it was trapizoidal.
[21:25:50] <andypugh> You can hear that it is.
[21:25:50] <skunkworks> bbl
[21:28:08] <archivist> andypugh, found the pics its a Thiel see http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2009/2009_08_13/P1010301.JPG and up
[21:28:53] <JT-Hardinge> a swift boot in the computer didn't change anything
[21:30:13] <JT-Hardinge> hmm, left hand threads cut on the back side with the spindle rotating backward...
[21:30:27] <archivist> andypugh, up to P1010308.JPG have a laugh at 309 a customer wired his clock up and it didnt work
[21:30:31] <andypugh> Ah, yes. Thiel are very similar, and you can still buy the Ajax clone: http://www.ajax-mach.co.uk/milling_machines_toolroom.htm
[21:31:19] <archivist> its a style a few followed like all the bp clones
[21:31:29] <JT-Hardinge> I'd say front to back will give me left hand threads
[21:33:19] <andypugh> 309! You can see why they mandated moulded-on plugs. At least it was very safe.
[21:33:49] <archivist> that was very safe!
[21:33:52] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: What happens if you specify a negative pitch?
[21:34:23] <JT-Hardinge> I don't think it will swallow that
[21:34:41] <JT-Hardinge> left hand is just a matter of reversing the start and end points
[21:35:09] <JT-Hardinge> just have to get my brain wrapped around the back side and turning backwards to boot
[21:37:42] <alex|lappy> JT-Hardinge, you could do it on the front side and just turn the tool over upside down
[21:37:54] <alex|lappy> although if you are just using a normal lathe, that *might* lift the carridge off the ways
[21:37:56] <alex|lappy> which is loud.
[21:37:57] <JT-Hardinge> not on this setup
[21:38:55] <JT-Hardinge> part is threaded onto a left hand mandrel that is held by the collet ie no other way to hold it that I know of
[21:39:24] <andypugh> archivist: This looks very much the same, and the buyer reports ballscrews on all axes. Avia FOP also say that all their current machines have ballscrews. I think that makes it a tempting CNC conversion target, but the eBay one is in Doncaster, which is a long old trek to look at a mill.
[21:39:25] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/pulsenpal/Tools#5400445083259174722
[21:40:41] <gene_> Hi Guys;
[21:41:30] <gene_> I just got my little table back together, and it appears I may have bit rot in one of my init files.
[21:43:00] <gene_> The C axis does set the dot for the active axis to C in AXIS. The command velicity does show, but the motor, remains locked when power is applied.
[21:43:02] <gene_> Ideas?
[21:43:19] <gene_> The C axis does NOT set the dot for the active axis to C in AXIS. The command velicity does show, but the motor, remains locked when power is applied.
[21:44:26] <gene_> I'm using [ & ] for c axis jogging.
[21:46:52] <tom3p> what steps to take to get parport use for emc2?
[21:46:52] <tom3p> lspci shows 'NetMos Technology PCI 9815", dmesg says "lp: driver loaded but no devices found', lshw show zippo-bang :(
[21:47:24] <tom3p> card works on other boxes, same kernel, same emc2 - 2.3.4
[21:48:54] <gene_> Perchance is this board placing it at some not quite std address? An lspci -vv might show that.
[21:49:36] <gene_> that is -V with 2 v's if the first one doesn't dig deep enough.
[21:49:50] <gene_> and its verbose...
[21:50:31] <tom3p> gene_ got it, will try. but its not the address is confused, it just isnt ( its an ex parrot )
[21:51:12] <madsci42> pinin' fer the fiords??!
[21:51:59] <madsci42> mine didnt show on the one box either but it worked, that machine had a bios setting to choose the address
[21:52:43] <gene_> There is another posssability to check
[21:52:46] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/GJXeatvjs/?size=fullsize http://pici.se/p/uekDONimX/?size=fullsize which do you prefer?
[21:53:48] <tom3p> my bios allowed 'output only, ecp.,epp and one other (i ferget) arent we to use EPP ?
[21:53:48] <madsci42> and also pci to isa bridge being enabled may affect it
[21:54:39] <gene_> I can't look at either page, kHTML says the script is freezing it. This is 6.06LTS here.
[21:55:49] <tom3p> frallzor, #2, with beveled edges
[21:56:00] <frallzor> ty =) my choice too
[21:56:19] <frallzor> more happening there
[21:57:37] <madsci42> output only might be some quirky description for SPP ??
[21:57:56] <frallzor> btw the Q about ECP and EPP, which is the one preferred? =)
[21:58:06] <frallzor> got me thinking about what Im using
[21:58:31] <madsci42> SPP is first choice for me - i have always found that to work reliably, EPP would be my second choice
[21:59:14] <frallzor> never seen that
[21:59:17] <frallzor> SPP?
[21:59:41] <madsci42> stanard parallel port - might be what your bios is describing as "output only"
[22:00:18] <gene_> is this an aftermarket port, or on the motherboard?\
[22:00:49] <frallzor> EPP seems pretty right at least compared to ECP
[22:01:06] <gene_> mine. using that chipset, is on a 2 port Roswell card, and looks like this
[22:01:19] <gene_> 0000:00:0a.0 Communication controller: NetMos Technology PCI 9815 Multi-I/O Controller (rev 01)
[22:01:23] <gene_> Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 2P0S (2 port parallel adaptor)
[22:01:27] <gene_> Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 11
[22:01:31] <gene_> I/O ports at a000 [size=8]
[22:01:32] <gene_> I/O ports at a400 [size=8]
[22:01:32] <gene_> I/O ports at a800 [size=8]
[22:01:32] <gene_> I/O ports at ac00 [size=8]
[22:01:32] <gene_> I/O ports at b000 [size=8]
[22:01:32] <gene_> I/O ports at b400 [size=16]
[22:01:40] <gene_> And that is not quite a std address.
[22:02:33] <tom3p> yeh mine comes up a000 on the other 2 boxes
[22:02:57] <tom3p> thx gene_
[22:04:33] <tom3p> i best try another pci card for this box :/
[22:05:09] <gene_> Yur welcome. But it appears that I haven't moved to that card yet, I'm still using the motherboards port at 0x378.
[22:05:43] <gene_> The address to set is in your .hal file I believe.
[22:06:31] <tom3p> yep
[22:06:42] <tom3p> (AFTER it exists :)
[22:06:54] <gene_> spoilsport
[22:08:03] <gene_> Now if I could just figure out why my C axis is so confused.
[22:08:25] <gene_> It did work, about 8 or 9 months ago.
[22:09:45] <gene_> But its nearly 90 & 90 here in the shop, so I'm going to let chatzilla watch the fire for a while.
[22:10:13] <tom3p> i keep a parport breakout handy with a few leds, 2.2k res and buttons to check the ports after its recognized. on one of those plugin type breadboards.
[22:15:10] <tom3p> maybe loadrt probe_parport then loadrt hal_parport
[22:22:08] <Jymmm> OT: Does anyone have any ideas on remove the dried gaffers tape adhesive from a paper label WITHOUT damaging the label?
[22:25:50] <andypugh> Acetone? Try it on some unimportant paper first though.
[22:26:18] <andypugh> (I don't think it will affect the paper, but might dissolve ink)
[22:27:12] <madsci42> or try lifting it off by sticking another piece of tape over it ?
[22:43:54] <morfic> i should have known it'll happen, so i try to find out what kind of drives yaskawa has that they can position at any angle, then find out if i can interface it with EMC and how. instead they are at work today and want to talk to me at quitting time, and then they are not even sticking to what they told me and instead are backtracking it and just want to know "that one way the software uses to make this work"
[22:44:36] <morfic> someone should have told me they would come today, i;m gonna grep logs right now to refresh my mind, it's nothing i can just soak up without a refresher weeks later so i can talk to them
[22:45:35] <morfic> bottom line seems to be step and direction is what would be used to position the spindle, what he was not sure about is if he can drive it this way to any rpm or if a switch to +-10V analog would be required
[22:50:29] <andypugh> I never did get round to trying to drive an AC motor as a servo. I do know that it is possible though, and I reckon I could have a good stab at writing a motor driver after the research I have done on the BLDC drivers. However the hardware is a problem, you need phase-current measurement.
[22:58:36] <SWPadnos> the performance probably wouldn't be anywhere near that of a servo
[22:59:16] <SWPadnos> induction motors are generally meant to turn at some more or less continuous speed, so rotor mass is a plus in that application
[22:59:32] <SWPadnos> servos are meant to accelerate and decelerate quickly, so rotor mass is bad
[22:59:40] <ds2> how would one hold an induction motor still?
[22:59:45] <SWPadnos> no idea
[22:59:58] <SWPadnos> maybe andypugh meant a different kind of AC motor :)
[23:00:22] <ds2> I suppose if you cooled it enough....
[23:00:50] <andypugh> No, I meant a perfectly normal 3-phase motor and a perfectly normal VFD as the basis of the experiment.
[23:01:16] <ds2> what is in the rotor of such a motor? is it still a shorted turn(s)?
[23:01:21] <andypugh> I was only thinking in terms of part-rotation for probing purposes.
[23:03:57] <morfic> ok, stomach is full, after i delivered the pictures i will grep the logs, see what all i was already told
[23:04:41] <SWPadnos> morfic, were you talking about spindle drives?
[23:05:10] <morfic> he was more interested in finding out what i can do than telling me what his drives can do, after a long day, unprepared, i did not like him telling me something in front of my boss and then go "well, no" when he was gone
[23:05:38] <morfic> SWPadnos: yes, if you recall, we want to stop the spindle at any angle for probing a part in a few spots around OD/ID
[23:05:44] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:06:39] <morfic> from what i vaguely recall (since it's very new to me) there were a few "you could...but you could also" with the bottom line "depends on the spindle drive", hence the grepping, making sure i don't mix too much together
[23:08:38] <andypugh> If you buy a 100HP brushless motor, I have a suitable driver component just here that could do it. (but you would need a 100HP dumb drive too, though that is just power semis)
[23:09:10] <morfic> how close to an angle could i stop a plain VFD? like get close enough to probe the pull on a brake to hold it during breaking
[23:11:25] <SWPadnos> I don't recall which one it is, but the Mazak uses a VFD for both spindle speed and orient for tool changes
[23:11:48] <SWPadnos> if you command zero speed, the spindle should try at least a little bit to hold still
[23:11:58] <ds2> isn't orienting a 3PH a lot like driving a stepper?
[23:12:21] <andypugh> Yes, the d part of the dq transform current will still be non-zero.
[23:12:42] <andypugh> ds2: No. More like a really slipper BLDC
[23:12:51] <andypugh> (slippery)
[23:13:32] <morfic> SWPadnos: duh, yeah, why is he so rattled by what i ask, a mill orients all day long for tool changes, never even thought about that, gah, i hate running with blinders on :) i was so focused on LATHE
[23:13:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:13:56] <SWPadnos> check how it's done though
[23:14:09] <morfic> i think April 15 looks like first time i asked this, see what i find
[23:14:20] <SWPadnos> I think the mazak has dogs that hold it in the right orientation for toolchange
[23:14:32] <SWPadnos> that obviously won't work for any arbitrary angle
[23:14:45] <morfic> i told him that i want whatever Haas does on a M19, since you can spindle orient, but specify any angle, even on their smallest lathe, no live tooling
[23:15:37] <morfic> our Johnford has an index pulse, and some setting somewhere to make it stop in relation to it, nothing holds it when the arm comes to grab tool
[23:15:58] <SWPadnos> if you have a spindle encoder, EMC2 will know the orientation
[23:16:06] <SWPadnos> and you will have an encoder, or you won't be threading
[23:20:55] <morfic> right
[23:21:28] <morfic> hey let me ask something real quick, is there any way to work with "step and direction" with any particular card?
[23:22:36] <SWPadnos> yes, if your question means what I think it means
[23:22:59] <SWPadnos> I know the Yaskawa servo drives can take step/dir for command input
[23:23:09] <morfic> it's a signal they can deal with to position the spindle
[23:23:16] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:23:35] <morfic> for rpm he thinks it would be +-10V, for positioning step+direction
[23:23:44] <SWPadnos> the drives can most likely take PWM, step/dir, up/down, and analog command input, and EMC2 can generate all of those
[23:24:10] <morfic> [PMDX]
[23:24:10] <morfic> Breakout Boards and other accessories for step and direction controls
[23:24:24] <andypugh> And can use all of them for both positioning or velocity, too.
[23:24:24] <SWPadnos> that's for parallel ports
[23:24:33] <SWPadnos> Mesa can generate all the necessary waveforms
[23:24:52] <morfic> Step & Direction Drives <-- ha ctrl-f moved right past the topic of the section
[23:25:19] <SWPadnos> I think position/velocity mode is a mode setting though
[23:25:43] <morfic> 7I47 12 Channel motion oriented RS-422 interface ?
[23:25:57] <morfic> ah crap, brb, gotta deliver the pictures!
[23:27:09] <SWPadnos> err - I meant that the Yaskawa drives have a setting for the control mode (torque, velocity, or position), not that the Mesa hardware or EMC2 has such a setting
[23:27:49] <Jymmm> Anyone want a neon laser cheap?
[23:33:05] <ds2> Jymmm: how cheap?
[23:33:12] <ds2> and how worn is the tube?
[23:34:57] <Jymmm> ds2: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/1795774158.html
[23:36:20] <morfic> SWPadnos: yes he was talking about possibly needing a digital output to switch drive
[23:36:37] <morfic> step+direction == position ?
[23:37:11] <morfic> as far as position, velocity, torque mode is concerned?
[23:38:14] <SWPadnos> uh, I don't think that step/dir automatically means "go into positioning mode"
[23:38:34] <SWPadnos> I believe it was a setup item, which could be set serially or by the keypad
[23:38:55] <SWPadnos> but there may be a way of setting it up so an external input switches between modes
[23:39:19] <morfic> he said that could be done, that's one thing he was almost not backing out on, yes i said almost
[23:39:24] <SWPadnos> those drives are pretty complex actually, with hundreds or even thousands of internal settings
[23:39:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:39:45] <morfic> the drive manual for servos is immensly detailed already
[23:39:50] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:40:20] <SWPadnos> I have the Yaskawa YTerm software, which I think lets me see the settings on the PC
[23:40:34] <SWPadnos> they may give it to you if you buy a lot of expensive drives, I had to buy it :( )
[23:40:43] <morfic> yeah we will have to have a windows laptop out on floor to tune it with their software
[23:42:01] <morfic> hey about generating that step+direction signal, can i use the 7I47, or is it one of those cards i can't use in EMC?
[23:42:27] <SWPadnos> the 7i33 (?) I/O card is all you need
[23:42:40] <SWPadnos> no wait, it is the 7i47, isn't it
[23:43:14] <SWPadnos> http://www.yaskawa.com/site/products.nsf/ProductDetailPages/Spindle%20Drives%20and%20Motors~M5%20Spindle%20Drive~M5SpindleDriveDesignFeatures.html
[23:43:18] <morfic> 7I33 is analog
[23:43:41] <SWPadnos> right. there's no rhyme or reason to those numbers (IMO), I always get them confused :)
[23:43:44] <morfic> 7I47 says 12 Channel motion oriented RS-422 interface
[23:44:06] <morfic> if they are supported, driver wise, i am happy
[23:44:19] <SWPadnos> hmm
[23:44:35] <SWPadnos> 7i37
[23:45:10] <morfic> 7I37? "Isolated I/O Card"?
[23:45:29] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:45:32] <kanzure> heh i just got a 7i37T in the mail today :)
[23:45:47] <kanzure> it was like christmas
[23:45:49] <kanzure> except in the middle of june
[23:45:52] <morfic> SWPadnos: so the signal is coming from EMC and the 7I37 just makes connection possible?
[23:46:11] <SWPadnos> the 7i47 may also work, but I'm not sure if the stepgen and encoder pins line up with the input vs. output lines on the 7i47
[23:46:23] <SWPadnos> the mesa FPGA card can generate the step/dir signals
[23:46:36] <SWPadnos> which would then be buffered/protected before going to the drive
[23:46:47] <kanzure> if i need help playing with my mesa cards, can you guys help? :)
[23:47:07] <kanzure> i bought some of the high voltage cards, an fpga card, and a 5i20
[23:47:08] <SWPadnos> I don't know if the 7i37 is fast enough to use step/dir for normal turning, but a simple buffer board should be
[23:47:10] <morfic> SWPadnos: thanks i will email pcw_home at his work email, he should know his cards
[23:47:12] <SWPadnos> kanzure, probably
[23:47:20] <SWPadnos> I'm sure he does :)
[23:47:54] <morfic> i will ask him if i can keep drive in step/dir mode for high rpm too then
[23:49:02] <SWPadnos> I know you can, but I don't know which daughtercards would be appropriate for high speed step/dir output and encoder input
[23:49:21] <morfic> ok, if i can switch the drive, HAL is doing all the magic for me on the software side between sending a +-10V to reach rpm and sending step/dir to reach angle
[23:49:25] <SWPadnos> incidentally, if the drive can hold the motor in position, it's likely that you can just do all of it with EMC and the analog output
[23:49:41] <SWPadnos> a zero command speed, while leaving the drive enabled, should mean "stay here"
[23:50:17] <SWPadnos> I'll bet you don't need to switch modes in the drive, and can use one output to control both activities
[23:51:10] <morfic> i feel rushed right now, despite your great calm help, i know boss will come back to me tomorrow and poke me
[23:51:23] <SWPadnos> I'm downloading the M5 manuals right now :)
[23:51:43] <morfic> only one good thing, he thinks like me, don't ask me what i have, tell me what you sell and how to drive it and i make it work
[23:52:11] <morfic> he asked all those questions which mean nothing since he does not sell anything but yaskawa
[23:53:55] <morfic> he should tell me "we can offer this, you send this signal" and "we also have this more sophisticated drive, you need this signal" then i would come here and *calmly* ask how to generate those signals for those drives
[23:56:33] <SWPadnos> what drive did he recommend?
[23:56:36] <morfic> SWPadnos: i'm gonna pretend i know what i do and will read the manual
[23:56:39] <morfic> NOTHING
[23:56:42] <SWPadnos> oh
[23:56:47] <morfic> it's what drives me crazy
[23:56:54] <SWPadnos> well the M5 I linked to has a servo mode, and an orientation mode
[23:57:18] <morfic> the way he talked, it's like they have 34 different types of indexable spindle drives
[23:57:35] <SWPadnos> they probably do
[23:58:02] <SWPadnos> though I only see one series listed on the website, which is pretty unbelievable
[23:58:56] <morfic> i wanted concrete examples, he gave me 2 ways, and when i repeated what he said, so i could repeat it in here, he went the "well, no" route
[23:59:15] <SWPadnos> go here: http://www.yaskawa.com/site/Products.nsf/products/Spindle%20Drives%20and%20Motors~M5SpindleDrive.html
[23:59:23] <SWPadnos> then click on "technical manuals" on the right side
[23:59:31] <SWPadnos> and download the 8 meg one
[23:59:49] <SWPadnos> SIE-S626-7.5B.pdf