#emc | Logs for 2010-06-13

[00:00:12] <mIreland> wonderful. we won't have to do the email dance then. how many machines have you retrofitted?
[00:01:38] <mIreland> This is my second EMC2 project. Learning curve is still a bit steep in places.
[00:03:16] <KimK> I try to stay connected all the time, I used to click "away", to grey myself out, until I discovered that it blocked incoming messages. I could say KimK_afk I suppose, but I seldom bother. So just post, and I'll scroll back later and catch up.
[00:04:12] <KimK> Does your toolchanger look like the one on Kirk's Shizouka?
[00:04:19] <mIreland> yes, identical
[00:05:00] <mIreland> Kirk is here in Cali if i recall correctly.
[00:05:14] <KimK> OK, that's a Dana/Summit TC. Sometimes erroneously called a Bandit TC because they shipped so many of them.
[00:05:53] <mIreland> It is fun to watch. strange to run with it so close to the quill.
[00:11:42] <KimK> As I recall(?) Kirk took over (with EMC) full operation of his TC. On the Iowa Kasugas, we left the original Dana/Summit TC control in charge, since it had been trouble-free. Except for having to replace the impact wrench a couple of times over the years, lol.
[00:11:57] <KimK> So we kept the original 5-wire interface.
[00:12:51] <mIreland> I'm not sure about the status of ours; I do hope I don't have to write a ladder for it.
[00:14:08] <mIreland> Impact wrench! now I get it. Ours has some hacked apart piece of DeWalt gear running the drawbar.
[00:14:29] <mIreland> clearly not original equipment
[00:16:11] <KimK> Yes, we're using an electric Black & Decker, I think.
[00:19:27] <madsci42> how much torque do those typically need?
[00:20:47] <KimK> When Dana/Summit designed the TC, they wanted to make it easy to interface to anything, so it uses a five wire control: carousel up/down/home, tool in/out. That's it. OK, I'm wrong, six wires. You get back a "done" signal (pulse) after each command.
[00:21:42] <mIreland> good. I think ours works. that will save me some headache!
[00:22:54] <mIreland> good. I think ours works. that will save me some headache!
[00:24:03] <mIreland> oops. repeat. Does the drawbar ever stick?
[00:24:08] <KimK> madsci42: It's just an MTB40 toolholder, so it shouldn't take much more torque than a Bridgeport, or any drawbar. But it gets used (twice!) on every tool change, so it wears out over the years.
[00:25:37] <mIreland> 40 tapers shouldn't bind, i guess. I always have to knock on the top of my Bridgeport.
[00:25:53] <KimK> But there's no torque sensing, or slip clutch, just timer adjustments (how long it pounds on it). So torque is probably higher than needed to be sure it's in. A little hard on drawbars too, I think.
[00:26:50] <mIreland> still, elegantly simple(is elegant the word I'm looking for?)
[00:27:01] <mIreland> maybe Hacktastic is a better fit
[00:27:18] <mIreland> i like it that it looks fixable
[00:27:18] <WesBaker> I've got an axis use question.
[00:27:28] <mIreland> fire away.
[00:27:42] <WesBaker> Are there other ways to jog and other preset speeds other than using the slider to set the speed?
[00:28:14] <WesBaker> I come from a Mach3 background and there are hot keys like ctl-direction to step jog and shift-direction to jog at max speed.
[00:28:39] <mIreland> a good question. I often use the . and , to move the slider, but this is not different from moving the slider, rlly
[00:28:42] <WesBaker> All I've figured out on axis is to set the slider with the mouse and then jog with arrow keys and page up/down.
[00:29:20] <WesBaker> I bet there is a way to preset an increment and do an incremental jog.
[00:29:50] <mIreland> , and . are slower and faster, respectively, but I have wondered if there isn't a way to make it jump to presets
[00:31:54] <KimK> There is an increment selector pull down (.1000, .0100, .0010, .0001, etc.), but I'm guessing that's not what you're after?
[00:33:03] <WesBaker> Sort of.
[00:33:19] <WesBaker> Is there a way to assign a hot key to the increment movement?
[00:33:39] <WesBaker> So you have something like ctl-arrowdown to jog axis_1 one increment?
[00:34:03] <WesBaker> Where's the pull down? I thought I went through the menus.
[00:35:37] <KimK> It should be on the upper left area of the AXIS display. Just below the X,Y,Z radio buttons.
[00:36:04] <WesBaker> Yes, I remember that when I first started with it a month back now.
[00:36:58] <WesBaker> So is there a way to assign configure it so that ctl-arrowdown would move .010 and alt-arrowdown would move .001?
[00:41:08] <KimK> I'm not sure, I don't know. But my first guess would be no, since one of the increment selections is "continuous". But I could be wrong.
[00:42:28] <KimK> BTW, did you ever get your velocity loop business sorted out?
[01:07:08] <jlmjvm> WesBaker:you can use your number keys to feed overide speed,1=10%,5=50%
[01:15:17] <madsci42> hmm no utsrelease.h in my 2.6.34 build
[01:19:55] <madsci42> that solved it - it looks like emc cant get the version string from version.h according to what configure.in is trying to do
[01:20:32] <madsci42> well rather configure not emc..
[01:32:20] <madsci42> /home/noonian/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c: In function \u2018init_module\u2019:
[01:32:20] <madsci42> /home/noonian/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:288: error: implicit declaration of function \u2018pci_find_device\u2019
[01:32:20] <madsci42> /home/noonian/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:288: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
[01:32:20] <madsci42> make[2]: *** [/home/noonian/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.o] Error 1
[01:33:26] <Guest959> Guest959 is now known as skunkworks_
[01:34:09] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MucNO3Dij9o
[01:34:44] <skunkworks_> talk amongst yourselves
[01:34:47] <skunkworks_> bbl
[01:41:38] <madsci42> must be a compiler version thing
[02:06:17] <madsci42> anyone know if i can make a pyvcp button to run a g-code command?
[02:37:22] <a-l-p-h-a> hello
[02:54:04] <pfred1> hi
[02:55:32] <Jymmm> hola
[02:58:18] <a-l-p-h-a> what's new in here?
[02:58:20] <a-l-p-h-a> I see 2.4.1
[02:58:58] <pfred1> 2.3.5 here
[02:59:34] <pfred1> I got a new old Rotozip today
[04:21:32] <madsci42> hey pfred i figured out my problem
[04:21:36] <madsci42> sort of
[04:24:14] <pfred1> madsci42 yeah?
[04:24:58] <madsci42> i looked at configure.in to see what it was trying to find for the version string - it uses one of two files from the kernel
[04:26:09] <madsci42> either utsrelease.h or version.h so i found that for some reason my 2.6.34 doesnt have utsrelease.h and for some reason the fallback line interpereting version.h wasnt working
[04:26:32] <madsci42> so i looked at utsrelease.h from a previous kernel that worked and made one up and that solved it
[04:26:51] <pfred1> heh
[04:26:59] <pfred1> til the next bug bites you
[04:27:06] <madsci42> it did already lol
[04:27:35] <madsci42> but i got over that too for the time being
[04:28:28] <madsci42> so now finally i have a working emc2-241 , rtai3.8 and kernel 2.6.34
[04:29:01] <pfred1> Linux spot 2.6.31-22-generic #60-Ubuntu SMP Thu May 27 00:22:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
[04:29:58] <madsci42> part of my problem is probably that im using debian
[04:30:50] <pfred1> this isn't my emc machine its a Karmic Koala
[04:31:35] <pfred1> I may give debian another shot sometime in the future
[04:31:40] <madsci42> - just on an old uniprocessor p4 box i wanted to get that version of rtai running to try in on an amd64 machine SMP to see if the dedicated core thing has an effect
[04:32:28] <pfred1> ubuntu does seem a tad bloated to me
[04:32:36] <madsci42> i get more and more frustrated with debian lately ... its all i have used for umm 11 years or so
[04:33:13] <madsci42> yeah the bloat and incompatible upgrades are what are annoying me in debian - i figure if i went to ubuntu it wouldnt solve much tho
[04:33:16] <pfred1> I've tried debian for more than 11 years there's always something about it that makes me format the drive
[04:34:04] <madsci42> i have an old p2 dual processor machine, from 2000, its upgraded through every version of debian till a couple years ago
[04:34:07] <madsci42> never had to format it
[04:34:39] <pfred1> oh it is my decision I have high standards
[04:34:40] <madsci42> i think i stopped at sarge with that machine
[04:35:01] <pfred1> debian has never quite lived up to them in my estimation either
[04:35:06] <madsci42> yeah
[04:35:26] <pfred1> but I'm willing to give them another shot someday
[04:35:53] <madsci42> to me lately they keep making insane changes - which keep creating way too much work - and lately lots of bloat with the gnome insanity
[04:36:10] <pfred1> last time their package manager was broken and the way they had it there was no way my sound could have worked
[04:36:52] <pfred1> was some kind of critical version mismatching going on with it
[04:37:10] <pfred1> and that was on the stable release
[04:37:38] <madsci42> for being current there have been some improvements with alternate package archives,
[04:37:40] <pfred1> everyone kept bleating run unstable if I wanted to run unstable I'd do Windows
[04:38:11] <madsci42> hehe yeah well i think about windows then i calm down and dont mind debian so much all of a sudden :-)
[04:38:42] <pfred1> I loaded up suse 8.2 and ran it until that machine literally blew up
[04:39:11] <pfred1> just went ot it one morning and it was dead
[04:39:14] <madsci42> i was going to try that a few times but never got around to it
[04:39:28] <madsci42> i heard suse was pretty tight
[04:39:30] <pfred1> they have a crappy lack of an upgrade path
[04:39:37] <pfred1> or did
[04:39:37] <madsci42> ah
[04:39:56] <pfred1> least that was what I ran up against
[04:40:08] <pfred1> but yeah when it worked it was nice
[04:40:16] <madsci42> it guess its hard to stay current - AND stay small AND stay stable... kind of conflicting variables
[04:40:53] <madsci42> well small and stable arent at least but current definitely
[04:41:23] <madsci42> how long have you been using Emc?
[04:41:59] <pfred1> well I started my project back in the BDI days then things happened and I had to set it aside
[04:42:15] <pfred1> and this winter i got back to working on things
[04:42:31] <pfred1> I have my electronics done and am working on the mechanics now slowly
[04:43:06] <madsci42> cool
[04:43:07] <pfred1> far as I've gotten with emc is stepperconf
[04:43:13] <pfred1> and the sim
[04:43:25] <pfred1> and image2gcode
[04:43:49] <pfred1> I feel when I get my machine going I'm going to have some configuring ahead of me
[04:44:10] <madsci42> yeah never how one plans
[04:44:11] <pfred1> but thats why I'm doing it just to do it
[04:44:33] <pfred1> I like fiddling around with electronics and making machines so it sort of fits
[04:44:44] <madsci42> i started in emc trying to make a dedicated box, minimum hardware and software so i never even tried to run axis or the other gui's
[04:45:06] <madsci42> which kinda helped because i got used to configuring the files by hand which gives a good handle on it after a while...
[04:45:10] <pfred1> well my emc box is dedicated
[04:45:24] <pfred1> just a piece of junk i picked up at the dumps
[04:45:31] <pfred1> or rather pieces
[04:45:34] <madsci42> yeah same with my original emc box
[04:45:54] <pfred1> I've run up against software step signal generation issues with it already
[04:46:05] <pfred1> ones i don't fully understand
[04:46:18] <pfred1> because if I lie about the microstepping I can get a lot higher rate out of it
[04:46:29] <madsci42> like glitches or following errors?
[04:46:31] <pfred1> than it'll give me if I'm honest
[04:46:41] <pfred1> just it'll give me a much faster clock
[04:46:59] <madsci42> yeah
[04:47:15] <pfred1> which I don't understand maybe there is backend stuff that comes into play?
[04:47:42] <pfred1> I don't think my hardware will go better than about 1.2 IP/M anyways
[04:47:43] <madsci42> well most motor drivers let you choose from a range of microsteps so you have some freedom there - trade off is minimal
[04:48:01] <pfred1> yeah I have to settle for 1/8th microstepping
[04:48:19] <pfred1> on 1/16th I can only do max .8 IP/M
[04:48:48] <madsci42> with a regular motor and drive thats probably as high (1/8) as you want to go anyway
[04:49:05] <pfred1> 1/16th is mighty smooth
[04:49:12] <pfred1> but 1/8th isn't bad
[04:49:35] <pfred1> really on my Y axis I made different drivers and they run half stepping
[04:49:54] <pfred1> but with 400 step per rev motors so it sort of balances out
[04:50:29] <madsci42> try gray code stepping
[04:50:33] <madsci42> like in quadrature
[04:50:38] <pfred1> I have a unique design in mind I am building
[04:50:42] <madsci42> then you get double the rate from the software
[04:51:03] <madsci42> if your making your own drivers its easy to translate the pins with a few gates
[04:51:14] <pfred1> well at the voltage I'm running I can only go so fast anyways
[04:51:25] <pfred1> made past tense
[04:51:31] <pfred1> I'm running what i built for now
[04:51:42] <madsci42> cool
[04:51:55] <pfred1> someday I may be in the mood to make different drivers
[04:52:00] <pfred1> but not anytime too soon
[04:52:22] <pfred1> really I'm happy to be ont othe mechanical aspect of the build now
[04:52:27] <madsci42> is your axis using leadscrews ? or pinions?
[04:52:39] <pfred1> lead screws 10 TPI acme
[04:53:16] <pfred1> though I've seen some impressive belt and chain drive machines
[04:53:16] <madsci42> my first frankenstein mini gantry was done with those
[04:53:41] <pfred1> resolution doesn't seem to suffer too much unless you're carving matchsticks or something
[04:54:11] <pfred1> like as it stands now my machine has a resolution of .00006 which is just silly
[04:54:27] <pfred1> it won't hold within 100 of that I doubt
[04:54:35] <pfred1> 100 times that is
[04:54:38] <madsci42> right
[04:54:53] <madsci42> yeah with flex and vibration - not much can anyway
[04:54:55] <pfred1> but thats just how it worked out
[04:55:19] <pfred1> well I am going to be using some big steel
[04:55:30] <pfred1> the X axis will be 3" heavyweight angles
[04:55:44] <pfred1> because I have them laying around
[04:56:09] <madsci42> shaft guides?
[04:56:11] <pfred1> I'm doing skate bearings and angles for linears
[04:56:16] <madsci42> ah
[04:56:49] <madsci42> that works
[04:56:56] <pfred1> I've seen just about every CNC machine design out there
[04:57:07] <pfred1> and mine isn't quite like any of them
[04:57:31] <pfred1> most of them seem just poorly balanced to me
[04:57:49] <pfred1> with the Z axis hanging off the side of the Y
[04:57:58] <pfred1> just seems crappy to me
[04:58:13] <pfred1> I'm going more of a mechmate style
[04:58:28] <pfred1> from what little I've been able to see of it
[04:59:02] <pfred1> my Y will lay down horizontal and the Z will go through the middle of it
[04:59:27] <pfred1> and I'm going to have an elevated X too
[04:59:40] <pfred1> like Z will go under the X
[04:59:51] <pfred1> because it can go through the Y
[05:01:28] <madsci42> thats how i made mine
[05:02:04] <madsci42> x and y overhead
[05:02:56] <madsci42> welded frames with machine mating parts where the precision matters
[05:03:25] <madsci42> machined
[05:03:42] <pfred1> like here is a rough sketch i made of my Z axis and part of the Y : http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7121/ztop3.png
[05:04:32] <pfred1> I'll build my Z first fit Y to it then X to that
[05:05:04] <pfred1> I'm sure most people start with their X then build their Z as an afterthought
[05:05:34] <pfred1> but i gave it some thought it makes more sense to build Z first
[05:05:48] <pfred1> the whole goal is to move a tool right?
[05:07:42] <pfred1> I want my machine to take my Hitachi M12V if I want ot throw it onto it
[05:08:10] <pfred1> its a pretty beefy router though
[05:08:27] <pfred1> its no Dremel thats for sure
[05:10:16] <madsci42> yeah
[05:10:33] <madsci42> i tried to make mine as versatile as possible
[05:10:51] <pfred1> I can see myself changing spindles depending on the job I am doing
[05:11:01] <madsci42> http://img710.imageshack.us/f/lt44.jpg/
[05:11:31] <pfred1> you don't get flex in those rods?
[05:12:24] <pfred1> my idea is to pivot Y 90 degrees and run between them
[05:12:57] <pfred1> that way the tool is supported evenly between them
[05:12:58] <madsci42> this is the head assembly; http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6691/lt44headassy.jpg
[05:13:12] <madsci42> actually i found them to be pretty rigid
[05:13:34] <madsci42> i have a new version that uses split bushings with support structure
[05:13:35] <pfred1> what are they about an inch in diameter?
[05:13:52] <madsci42> exactly yeah - hardened class L alloy shafting
[05:14:14] <pfred1> hmmm I'm surprised solid rod is so rigid
[05:14:19] <madsci42> the trick is the ends are supported so they act like a cantilever
[05:14:30] <madsci42> that machine is actually just a 3.5x4 foot span
[05:14:40] <madsci42> i would not go more than 4 feet unsupported
[05:14:43] <pfred1> oh you're saying that top frame is giving you tension?
[05:14:57] <madsci42> top frame and corners
[05:15:29] <pfred1> my initial idea was to make a box and roll on the top of it sort of this machine has similarities to my idea
[05:15:32] <madsci42> so like in the ends i machined them slightly concave
[05:15:49] <madsci42> and put a high tension bolt that pulls them flat up against the corner flats
[05:16:03] <madsci42> which makes a surprising difference
[05:16:03] <pfred1> but I'm just going to use such massive pieces of steel it'll be rigid on its own
[05:16:26] <pfred1> 3" heavyweight angle is some big stuff
[05:16:51] <madsci42> i wouldnt put anything too massive on the head but for light routing, plasma, engraving, and drilling - all depending on material - it works great
[05:16:58] <madsci42> yeah that is
[05:17:14] <pfred1> but my Y will be 2" lightweight
[05:17:19] <pfred1> because it'll be active
[05:17:23] <madsci42> i get about 600 ipm out of it
[05:17:37] <pfred1> what pitch screw?
[05:17:44] <madsci42> keeping it under 400 for reliability tho
[05:17:44] <pfred1> 5 TPI?
[05:17:49] <madsci42> 2tpi
[05:17:53] <pfred1> ah 2
[05:18:32] <madsci42> i made it so i could swap tool heads
[05:18:35] <pfred1> I'm not in any great hurry
[05:18:50] <pfred1> mine will just have a platform that accepts tools or jigs
[05:19:21] <madsci42> yeah in hindsight i probably would have had an easier time going that route
[05:19:28] <madsci42> but i wanted eventually to auto change tools
[05:19:29] <pfred1> if I'm lucky i should get about 60 IP/M
[05:19:59] <pfred1> long as I'm not cutting too much air it shouldn't be much of a factor
[05:20:06] <madsci42> if your doing routing/engraving type stuff - i would think you dont need alot of speed anyway
[05:20:14] <pfred1> yes
[05:20:26] <madsci42> plasma needs it with thin sheet in my case
[05:20:32] <pfred1> I never push a router faster than 30 or so IP/M by hand I don't think
[05:20:59] <madsci42> i want to cnc my knee mill
[05:21:04] <pfred1> I've no use for a plasma cutter that I am aware of
[05:21:25] <madsci42> and it just has the 5tpi ground screws - cant foot the bill for ballscrews so im thinking to just run with whats there till i can upgrade parts
[05:21:28] <pfred1> I have a benchtop chinesem ill and again I don't see the utility of CNCing it for what i do with it
[05:22:08] <pfred1> I've no need for strange pocket cut parts
[05:22:11] <madsci42> well mine doesnt have power feed either - so just for that it would be nice :)
[05:22:23] <pfred1> I slapped an X axis power feed onto mine
[05:22:24] <madsci42> i would proably still do mostly manual stuff on it
[05:22:30] <pfred1> its handy like when I indicate a vise
[05:22:37] <madsci42> yeah
[05:22:43] <pfred1> or do a fly cut
[05:22:52] <madsci42> cranking at a particular feedrate gets old fast
[05:22:59] <pfred1> but overall its not really all that useful really
[05:23:20] <madsci42> yeah im kinda mixed about it
[05:23:20] <pfred1> heh mine is one speed and to tell yo uthe truth its all I need
[05:23:36] <pfred1> I keep saying I'm going to build a speed controller for it
[05:23:38] <madsci42> wether I CNC it or not - i still have all the setup time to worry about and fixturing issues
[05:24:00] <pfred1> but I have it pulleyed to one OK speed and its OK
[05:24:23] <pfred1> its a gear reduction drive motor anyways
[05:24:39] <pfred1> I got it from a machine shop I used to work in they tossed them out al lthe time
[05:24:48] <pfred1> I have like 2 more on the shelf so to speak
[05:24:56] <madsci42> thats cool
[05:25:26] <pfred1> we ran bridgeports with them but they were a bit under powered i guess
[05:25:31] <madsci42> used market is great if one keeps an eye on it
[05:25:34] <pfred1> well the way we beat the crap out of them
[05:25:58] <madsci42> mine is an import, like a heavier (looking) version with the box ways - 3vs
[05:25:59] <pfred1> thats why the boss was tossing one out a week
[05:26:22] <pfred1> and most of the time it was just a hung brush or something
[05:26:35] <madsci42> wow
[05:26:59] <pfred1> they're cheap I guess it wasn't worth any time for them to fool around
[05:27:06] <madsci42> so you probably know more about my mill than i do hah
[05:27:32] <pfred1> an RF-45?
[05:27:39] <pfred1> but you said it was a knee mill
[05:27:45] <madsci42> no its a full size
[05:27:51] <madsci42> 1050 table
[05:27:52] <pfred1> oh OK
[05:28:02] <pfred1> I have an RF-32
[05:28:03] <madsci42> vari speed head
[05:28:06] <pfred1> round column
[05:28:16] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[05:28:16] <madsci42> i should have got pulleyed head
[05:28:24] <pfred1> its basically a drill press with limited milling capabilities
[05:28:37] <madsci42> yeah a friend of mine has the rf45 style
[05:28:47] <pfred1> if I'm really really careful I can mill with it
[05:28:57] <madsci42> it seems great to me - his is older and has a beefier head than the ones i have seen lately
[05:29:15] <pfred1> have you figured out the secret yet?
[05:29:27] <madsci42> to milling?
[05:29:34] <pfred1> to these crappy chinese mills
[05:29:47] <pfred1> its all in the way oil
[05:29:58] <pfred1> it took me a while to figure out
[05:30:10] <madsci42> when i got this machine it was with a lathe the mill was in good shape but i found some stuff in the lathe that bothered me
[05:30:18] <madsci42> so i stripped both of them down comlpetely
[05:30:18] <pfred1> but I'm using chainsaw bar oil on mine and its like a new machine
[05:30:50] <madsci42> cleaned all the sand and junk out of them (there were spare parts in the bottom of the lathe carriage gearbox)
[05:30:52] <pfred1> sort of sticks the ways together somewhat
[05:31:08] <pfred1> heh yeah the sludge chinese think is grease
[05:31:10] <madsci42> and i just used way lube since then
[05:31:23] <madsci42> and proper oil in gear boxes and such
[05:31:33] <pfred1> well try bar oil its the same stuff and a lot cheaper and easier to get
[05:31:45] <madsci42> yeah i heard it sticks better
[05:31:52] <pfred1> yup sticks like magic
[05:31:53] <madsci42> like stays there
[05:32:04] <pfred1> gives these machines a nice feel
[05:32:35] <pfred1> all I know is I get less chatter and skipping and whatnot since I've been using it
[05:33:26] <pfred1> I'd say it is a vast improvement over say like sae 30
[05:33:59] <pfred1> it is my goto shop oil anymore
[05:34:09] <madsci42> yeah
[05:34:21] <madsci42> i was using some compressor oil i had for a while
[05:34:32] <pfred1> and at $2 a quart from the big box store I always have a quart on hand
[05:34:38] <madsci42> it was very good oil but when i switched to vactra i noticed the feel was different
[05:34:42] <pfred1> I need it for my chainsaw anyways
[05:35:15] <pfred1> but its just dynamite stuff
[05:35:26] <madsci42> but the vactra doesnt really stay there at all
[05:35:42] <pfred1> well get some bar lube if you don't like it you can always use it somewhere else
[05:35:43] <madsci42> less than the compressor oil
[05:36:08] <madsci42> yeah i mgiht give that a shot next time i am at the right store
[05:36:13] <pfred1> I use it for everything oiling motor shafts you name it
[05:36:31] <pfred1> wherever I thnk something needs a spot of oil
[05:36:52] <pfred1> and if its too thick i brush some on then shoot it with PB Blaster
[05:37:10] <pfred1> like if i have to oil pliers joints or something
[05:37:42] <pfred1> but yeah bar oil is the stuff
[05:38:02] <pfred1> and its non detergant so its not hydroscopic
[05:40:09] <madsci42> thats good - wow i really think ill try that stuff - i have never actually used bar oil for anything
[05:40:25] <madsci42> heres my machines http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/518/1002234.jpg
[05:40:28] <pfred1> sticks like glue slides like butter
[05:41:14] <pfred1> what is that little blue cylinder thing behind the head?
[05:42:02] <madsci42> oh! hah took me a second to clue in to what you meant - yeah thats the motor
[05:42:10] <pfred1> thats not a treadmill motor is it?
[05:42:17] <madsci42> << hides
[05:42:22] <madsci42> yeah it is
[05:42:27] <madsci42> but it works great
[05:42:32] <pfred1> OK
[05:42:42] <madsci42> when i first got the mill i didnt have 3phase
[05:42:42] <pfred1> was it 3 phase or something?
[05:43:02] <pfred1> 3 phase is only great if you have it
[05:43:03] <madsci42> now i have 3phase so i coudl put the original back on - but i made a speed controller that works nicely
[05:43:32] <pfred1> and really I don't have all that much trouble reversing single phase anyways
[05:43:37] <madsci42> so i stuck with it - seems to have as much power as the head can take anyway
[05:43:52] <pfred1> sometimes too much power can lead to bad things
[05:43:58] <madsci42> yeah
[05:44:21] <madsci42> and short bearing life
[05:44:26] <madsci42> if nothing else
[05:44:54] <madsci42> with this i have a pretty good feel if im pushing it too much
[05:45:24] <pfred1> I have to adjust my belt again it stretched in
[05:45:25] <madsci42> its 2.5 hp which is enough
[05:45:28] <pfred1> I use that link belt stuff
[05:45:35] <madsci42> i hate the vari-pulleys tho
[05:45:50] <madsci42> can that stuff handle load?
[05:46:06] <pfred1> sure its a belt
[05:46:21] <pfred1> it is as strong as a regular belt
[05:46:36] <madsci42> i want to replace that first belt with soemthing that doesnt cause vibration
[05:46:44] <madsci42> the motor is good but the belt causes some
[05:46:46] <pfred1> thats what they say link belts do
[05:46:50] <madsci42> yeah
[05:47:14] <pfred1> my mill is such a chatterbox it is hard to tell
[05:47:28] <pfred1> I think its is something in the stand i made for it
[05:47:40] <madsci42> mine also gets it from the spindle somewhere
[05:47:51] <pfred1> seemed sturdy enough at the time but I think I have a resonance issue going on
[05:47:52] <madsci42> like the draw bar maybe - i never did figure it out
[05:48:01] <pfred1> spindle bearings?
[05:48:10] <pfred1> I know mine the grease ran out and they loosened up
[05:48:25] <pfred1> I had to repack them and retighten them etc.
[05:48:41] <madsci42> not sure - they seem tight - hold tolerances well etc
[05:48:46] <pfred1> I was doing a lot of wood on and aroud mine and the dust sucked the bearings dry on me
[05:49:25] <madsci42> i wanted to find a spare set decent quality ones
[05:49:36] <madsci42> but when i can find a deal on them
[05:49:54] <pfred1> http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1415/anvilspark.jpg
[05:50:01] <pfred1> me beating on my mill
[05:50:22] <madsci42> hey cool!
[05:50:30] <madsci42> the truest anvil on the planet lol
[05:50:31] <pfred1> with my gypsy power drive engaged
[05:50:40] <pfred1> oh its like a mirror on top
[05:50:45] <pfred1> carbide fly cut
[05:51:08] <madsci42> sparks!!
[05:51:12] <pfred1> I still have to grind the horn and polish it
[05:51:25] <pfred1> yeah it is chilled cast iron I think
[05:51:45] <pfred1> I was running 200 SFPM I think
[05:52:09] <pfred1> can't remember i tried slower it didn't go as well
[05:52:30] <madsci42> thats exactly like the one my friend has
[05:52:40] <pfred1> its an RF-32
[05:52:42] <madsci42> its great
[05:52:51] <pfred1> yeah its an overgrown drill press
[05:53:00] <pfred1> that sort of mills
[05:53:11] <madsci42> yeah
[05:53:14] <pfred1> good enough for a hack in a garage like me
[05:53:26] <pfred1> its an awesom drill press
[05:53:28] <madsci42> i guess those cant be trammed easily?
[05:53:34] <madsci42> is proably the only thing
[05:53:35] <pfred1> not really no
[05:53:52] <pfred1> I've messed around with it some and can't get it perfect
[05:54:08] <pfred1> it leads on one side especially with a big fly cutter like that it drags and leads
[05:54:13] <madsci42> is that a grinding setup of some sort on the right?
[05:54:23] <pfred1> thats a carbide fly cutter
[05:54:31] <pfred1> burning off the chips
[05:54:40] <madsci42> theres another contraption there with pulleys
[05:54:50] <pfred1> thats my power feed
[05:54:55] <pfred1> oh in the back?
[05:54:57] <madsci42> yeah
[05:55:00] <pfred1> heh thats a lathe I made
[05:55:18] <madsci42> thats cool
[05:55:29] <madsci42> sometimes i think is hould have got smaller equip
[05:55:30] <pfred1> see if I can find a pic of that
[05:55:41] <madsci42> but i didnt have much choice i guess
[05:55:47] <fragalot> Morning
[05:55:58] <madsci42> morning :)
[05:56:09] <pfred1> heck I'll just put up another easier than looking for it
[05:56:19] <fragalot> seems I have 3 bits I have nfc what to use them for.. they kinda look like nails o.O
[05:56:44] <fragalot> tip has 3 faces.. supposedly it's for engraving but I can't really see that work nicely unless if I have a floating hea
[05:56:48] <fragalot> d
[05:57:09] <madsci42> grind it like a d-bit maybe?
[05:57:20] <madsci42> maybe they have off-center points
[05:57:26] <pfred1> I plan on replacging the spindle I'm in the process of making a new pulley pattern to cast
[05:57:33] <pfred1> http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2036/headstockh.jpg
[05:57:39] <pfred1> but it can lathe wood OK
[05:58:15] <pfred1> madsci42 oh you'll get a kick out of this
[05:59:04] <pfred1> what i had to do in order to turn down my leadscrew ends: http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6379/lead2b.jpg
[05:59:44] <Jymmm> pfred1: two words... angle grinder
[05:59:47] <madsci42> yikes! that wood is a support bushing!
[05:59:48] <madsci42> hehe
[06:00:00] <madsci42> hey if it works tho
[06:00:00] <pfred1> Jymmm that is how I did it but I wanted it concentric
[06:00:40] <pfred1> madsci42 well in order to tension the belt the lead would have flexed
[06:00:46] <madsci42> i need to make a crude lathe for stuff thats too brutal to do on my real one
[06:01:21] <pfred1> it took me a while but I got it done
[06:03:13] <madsci42> set screws hold the bearings in the angle iron?
[06:03:19] <pfred1> yes
[06:03:30] <pfred1> cap screws actually but sets would have worked
[06:03:36] <pfred1> 8-32s
[06:03:54] <pfred1> I drilled the holes with a holesaw on my mill
[06:04:02] <pfred1> 1 1/8th
[06:04:22] <madsci42> smart quick setup
[06:04:31] <madsci42> i have done stuff like that for coil-winding jigs and such
[06:04:50] <madsci42> first question is always 'whats handy... whats expendable"
[06:04:53] <pfred1> yeah grabbed a piece of scrap cut it in half drilled it out put them steps on it with bandsaw drilled and tapped the sets
[06:05:15] <pfred1> and i may even use them on my machine to hold the bearings
[06:05:31] <pfred1> have to see how it all works out
[06:05:55] <pfred1> least I'll make whatever I hold the bearings with in a similar fashion
[06:07:09] <madsci42> yeah
[06:07:15] <pfred1> here's my massive control wiring for my mill power drive: http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7537/switchwiring.jpg
[06:07:32] <pfred1> forward reverse and stop
[06:08:40] <pfred1> where all the madness happens: http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9807/garagep.jpg
[06:09:07] <pfred1> though that pic is sort of old now
[06:10:18] <madsci42> cool
[06:10:31] <pfred1> the one bench in the middle rolls
[06:10:45] <pfred1> the one with the shelf over it
[06:11:01] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks pfred1... GET RID OF THE 486!
[06:11:12] <pfred1> Jymmm its a Pentium!
[06:11:13] <madsci42> haha
[06:11:33] <Jymmm> get rid of it!
[06:11:38] <pfred1> heck I got Z-80s out in my storage trailer
[06:12:00] <Jymmm> get rid of the trailer
[06:12:13] <pfred1> Jymmm keep it up and this is going ot be your new address: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3218/p1010018sx.jpg
[06:12:27] <pfred1> why? I can't see it from my house
[06:12:37] <Jymmm> blow it up
[06:13:08] <Jymmm> including that redneck light
[06:13:17] <pfred1> guy down the road from me does black powder cannons
[06:13:28] <Jymmm> paint a target on it
[06:13:53] <pfred1> here's a group pic of my neighbors: http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6293/pict0594c.jpg
[06:14:05] <pfred1> they all live within a few miles of me
[06:14:48] <madsci42> the things people do for hobbies (im one to talk)
[06:15:07] <pfred1> up until 2 years ago that was held 2 blocks south of me
[06:15:17] <pfred1> they moved it across town though
[06:16:06] <pfred1> they're about to break a mile
[06:16:22] <pfred1> furthest shot is 4400 feet so far
[06:17:10] <fragalot> xD
[06:17:17] <pfred1> I was there when they set the new worlds record for a trebuchet shot last year
[06:17:29] <pfred1> that was like 4000 feet
[06:17:39] <fragalot> longest recorded shot*
[06:17:48] <fragalot> nobody knows what happened during the dark ages :P
[06:17:49] <pfred1> the trebuchets say they're gonna beat the air cannons
[06:17:59] <pfred1> with a pumpkin
[06:18:12] <pfred1> pumpkins ain't easy to chunk!
[06:18:44] <pfred1> damned things are fragile you know?
[06:18:55] <pfred1> when it explodes out of the gun its called pie
[06:19:10] <madsci42> its a giant paintball
[06:19:25] <pfred1> they're all into growing special pumpkins for competition
[06:19:34] <pfred1> they're genetically engineering stronger ones
[06:19:58] <pfred1> its pretty competitive
[06:20:13] <pfred1> we really have nothing better to do here I guess
[06:20:29] <pfred1> I can easily see myself out there in a few more years
[06:20:41] <pfred1> or beers
[06:21:26] <pfred1> the guy with the blue barrel he's right around the corner from me I pass his gun all the time
[06:21:29] <fragalot> madsci42: imagine getting hit by one
[06:21:30] <fragalot> :P
[06:21:43] <fragalot> * fragalot wonders if the pumpkin would go splat, or if you would.
[06:21:48] <pfred1> fragalot they demolished a panel truck with one on sci channel this year
[06:21:56] <pfred1> nah it went clean throug hthe truck
[06:22:19] <pfred1> punched through steel 1" plywood and kept on going out the other side
[06:22:28] <fragalot> lol
[06:22:39] <pfred1> it was pretty gnarly
[06:23:10] <madsci42> would have given Newton much to think about
[06:23:25] <pfred1> I can't wait for this year
[06:23:34] <pfred1> every year it just gets crazier
[06:23:54] <pfred1> this year I'm going to bicycle over
[06:24:02] <pfred1> its too much of a pain to drive
[06:26:04] <pfred1> I wish I had an aerial photo of it
[06:27:41] <pfred1> I'm going to have to callu p captian willie and get him to fly over it
[06:29:32] <madsci42> emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:288: error: implicit declaration of function \u2018pci_find_device\u2019
[06:29:32] <madsci42> emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:288: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
[06:29:32] <madsci42> <madsci42> make[2]: *** [/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.o] Error 1
[06:29:55] <madsci42> somethig in my system is causing this wherever that pci_find_device function is used
[06:31:06] <madsci42> i dont use any of those devices so i was able to just replace the comparison with null to get my build running but.. its bugging me
[09:29:25] <archivist> just found an interesting patent from the 1930's adjustable worm http://www.archivist.info/cnc/US2002644A.pdf
[10:14:24] <micges> madsci42: hi
[10:14:51] <micges> madsci42: what emc version you're trying to build on what system?
[10:16:52] <madsci42> hello
[10:16:58] <madsci42> 241
[10:17:20] <madsci42> i tried the release version and also one i got from the git repo
[10:19:25] <madsci42> oh
[10:20:12] <micges> you should try: make clean && git clean -f && make
[10:20:15] <madsci42> system is debian sid, 32 bit pentium 4 uniprocessor machine, against kernel 2.6.34 and rtai 3.8
[10:20:26] <micges> oh
[10:20:37] <micges> so ignore above tip
[10:22:02] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Sarge_Compile_EMC2
[10:22:05] <madsci42> its like theres a strict setting or something in the c compiler
[10:22:15] <fragalot> * fragalot needs to find a way to attach his vacuumm cleaner to his machine so he doesn't have to sit there holding it as it engraves for an hour
[10:22:18] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_EMC2
[10:22:34] <micges> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Etch_Compile_EMC2
[10:22:59] <madsci42> yeah i have been through those - i have successfully compiled emc several times with past versions
[10:24:21] <madsci42> and .. actually i also did a version of this one on the same machine - but it was with an older kernel 2.6.30.x and rtai371 - no problems there
[10:25:30] <frallzor> lo boys
[10:26:20] <madsci42> duct tape perhaps fragalot? :-)
[10:26:49] <micges> madsci42: can't help much
[10:27:43] <madsci42> thanks very much for trying tho! :-) i appreciate it
[10:27:52] <frallzor> whats the topic? =)
[10:28:52] <micges> madsci42: error is saying that is no declaration of 'pci_find_device' in headers, so you must locate valid header with it
[10:29:16] <madsci42> emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:288: error: implicit declaration of function \u2018pci_find_device\u2019
[10:29:16] <madsci42> emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.c:288: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
[10:29:16] <madsci42> make[2]: *** [/emc2-dev/src/hal/drivers/hal_m5i20.o] Error 1
[10:29:19] <micges> frallzor: compile rt + emc on debian sid
[10:29:25] <frallzor> yuk
[10:29:37] <madsci42> it does a similar error on every instance where the pci_find_device is called
[10:30:41] <madsci42> i dont use any of the hardware that those drivers are built for so I was able to get around it just by putting null in place of the call
[10:30:53] <fragalot> madsci42: balanced it on my chair xD
[10:31:19] <fragalot> don't trust it enough to go off and mow my lawn meanwhile though
[10:31:20] <fragalot> :/
[10:31:29] <madsci42> heh
[10:32:39] <madsci42> the reason i think it has something to do with my c version or kernel is because the same tarball built fine on the same system against a previous kernel a few hours prior - when the new kernel was installed I had to update the build tools
[10:33:04] <madsci42> in order to build the kernel
[10:33:09] <micges> madsci42: this driver is deprecated so maybe it's incompatible with newest kernels
[10:34:36] <madsci42> yeah
[10:35:10] <madsci42> could be - on other issue i noticed was configure.in wouldnt parse version.h correctly
[10:35:58] <madsci42> my previous kernels all had utsrelease.h (if im remembering the name correctly) which is the first thing config checks
[10:36:08] <micges> on git master hal_5i20 was removed already
[10:36:54] <madsci42> if it doesnt find that it falls back to version .h i think - for some reason my 2.6.34 didnt have a utsrelease.h so i typed one up and was able to complete configure
[10:38:11] <madsci42> wow ok
[10:38:20] <madsci42> it was doing it in several other drivers too tho
[10:38:57] <madsci42> wherever - in the driver there was the call to pci_find_device to check if it was present i presume
[10:39:28] <micges> yes
[10:42:47] <madsci42> im sort of mostly mentioning it incase someone here finds the info useful
[10:43:08] <madsci42> i need to get on the mail archive one of these days
[10:43:50] <madsci42> but it would be cool to learn if i did something wrong
[10:46:22] <micges> It would be better that you mail to emc-devel list with those info, our emc kernel hackers are sleeping right now :)
[10:49:17] <madsci42> :)
[10:50:36] <madsci42> this channel is cool tho
[10:52:16] <madsci42> ive experimenting with emc for a around a year and a half on and off ill be using it for the long term so i figure worth getting more involved with the community
[10:52:51] <madsci42> im more of an electronics person tho
[10:54:14] <madsci42> cool to see what everyone is doing with it
[10:57:42] <fragalot> madsci42: how good are your electronic engineering skills ? :P
[10:58:16] <madsci42> i have been eating sleeping and breathing it since i was 11
[10:58:43] <fragalot> could you design a voltage/current regulator for an oldtimer car that has a 6V field coil dynamo in it? :P
[10:59:09] <fragalot> 220Watt
[10:59:12] <micges> madsci42: I've builded around 20 machines with emc so I can tell it works fine :)
[11:00:25] <madsci42> very likely frag - I'll have to brush up on field coil dynamo tno
[11:00:27] <madsci42> tho
[11:00:43] <fragalot> madsci42: and how much would you charge for designing one?
[11:00:48] <madsci42> yeah emc is great - rtai and linux - its a fantastic combo
[11:01:08] <fragalot> I've tried a few times but keep failing at it
[11:01:15] <madsci42> i have to learn to write drivers for emc tho - i need more input capabilities
[11:02:36] <madsci42> you are just looking for something that outputs a given voltage with a current limit frag?
[11:03:05] <fragalot> madsci42: it has to be regulated so it charges a 6V 84Ah lead acid battery
[11:03:52] <fragalot> the previous system in it used mechanical PWM on the field coil
[11:03:56] <madsci42> you ahve a diagram of the dynamo output?
[11:04:33] <madsci42> or any data at all on it
[11:04:43] <madsci42> would be helpful
[11:05:19] <fragalot> yeah looking now
[11:05:31] <fragalot> it's for a Trabant P601 xD
[11:06:32] <madsci42> is it me or is internet search going to pot
[11:06:47] <madsci42> seems like it was so much easier to find useful info 10 years ago
[11:07:02] <fragalot> yeah
[11:07:20] <fragalot> advertisements have ruined search results
[11:08:47] <madsci42> do they have IGBT's in Belgium? :-}
[11:08:58] <fragalot> yeah
[11:10:14] <fragalot> I've got some diagrams (not too useful, too dumbened down) from books that I could scan in after my machine finishes engraving
[11:10:21] <madsci42> well if your not in a hurry i can try and come up with something - i have to brush up on dynamos tho
[11:10:39] <fragalot> it's not that urgent no :)
[11:10:49] <madsci42> cool
[11:10:58] <fragalot> still have a lot of work to do on the body, respray etc :)
[11:11:29] <fragalot> the reason I like it is the same reason I like taiwanese machines. they're extremely simple to work on
[11:14:17] <madsci42> i guess they have a distributor in toronto
[11:16:18] <madsci42> mechanical pwm - what a concept
[11:17:13] <fragalot> lol yeah
[11:17:48] <fragalot> it's just a rudimentary current coil that works on a relays :P
[11:17:58] <fragalot> 3-unit regulator from ye olde times
[11:18:11] <madsci42> neato
[11:18:40] <madsci42> whenever i work with / on devices from ye olde times - i always get new ideas
[11:20:08] <fragalot> :D
[11:21:32] <madsci42> i havent used IRC since my own old times - how do i give you my email on this thing
[11:22:21] <fragalot> /msg fragalot blah or /query fragalot depending on your client
[12:29:23] <jthornton> dialup :/
[12:33:58] <jlmjvm> jthornton:hows the weather out there
[12:35:05] <jthornton> HOT!
[12:35:16] <jthornton> going to be 95 today
[12:35:27] <jthornton> and muggy
[12:35:41] <jlmjvm> sounds like down here in bama
[12:35:53] <jthornton> what part of bama?
[12:36:04] <jlmjvm> huntsville
[12:38:39] <jthornton> I used to live in Pascagoula MS and take the back roads to Mobile to visit friends... at least we had a gulf breeze there
[12:43:52] <jlmjvm> I finally got my mill homing to index fri morning
[12:43:59] <jthornton> cool'
[12:44:08] <jthornton> I bet your glad
[12:44:25] <jlmjvm> extremely glad
[12:46:25] <jlmjvm> its amazing that it does all this on a parport
[12:47:22] <jthornton> yes that is ... did you put anything on the wiki explaining what you did to get it to work?
[12:50:14] <jthornton> * jthornton wonders what the difference is between memory timing of 5-5-5-15 and 5-5-5-12?
[12:50:57] <jthornton> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147%201052108080%201052307858%201052416064%201259916288&bop=And&CompareItemList=147|20-231-170^20-231-170-S01%2C20-134-114^20-134-114-TS%2C20-220-088^20-220-088-S01%2C20-146-117^20-146-117-S01%2C20-144-258^20-144-258-S01
[12:51:03] <jthornton> wow what a link
[12:53:03] <jlmjvm> should i put it on the wiki,or start a thread on the forum?
[12:53:21] <jthornton> LOL both!
[12:54:41] <jlmjvm> cool
[14:58:33] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as SteveStallings
[15:05:27] <Guest233> Guest233 is now known as skunkworks_
[16:22:45] <elmo40> have people no knowledge of tinyurl or qurl.org ?
[16:24:40] <Jymmm> I don't do blind urls, and blame the ppl that run the website.
[16:25:43] <elmo40> blind urls? it saves bandwidth ;)
[16:25:59] <Jymmm> Not if it's a virus/malware.
[16:27:16] <elmo40> not that I don't blame you, but if you click on a 'blind' url from a guy who does a single post with no leadup to his link AND don't have a virus scanner, it is your fault.
[16:27:25] <elmo40> I always post qurl.org links.
[16:28:07] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1789327594.html
[16:29:27] <elmo40> wow, all the details. most people just say 'red toolbox, used' :P
[16:32:12] <jthornton> what a rip I just saw one at K-mart for $5.99 the other day
[16:32:47] <Jymmm> Well, maybe he needs the dollar
[16:36:53] <fragalot> 'saves bandwith'
[16:36:55] <fragalot> no it doesn't
[16:36:58] <fragalot> it consumes more.
[16:37:17] <fragalot> since you first have to load the 'blind' url, which then forwards you to the real url, creating more bandwidth than initially intended.
[16:38:27] <Eric_K> it just saves defective email clients
[16:38:45] <Eric_K> on gmail, you can have a 10 line url, and it still understands
[16:51:15] <renesis> OMFG CMON RLY?!
[16:51:29] <renesis> so if you change from MDI to the jog screen in emc
[16:51:38] <renesis> and hit zero axis
[16:51:46] <renesis> it stops the movement
[16:51:55] <renesis> and if you hit okay you lose your zero
[16:57:56] <renesis> okay everyone can chill out i fissit
[18:03:02] <Jymmm> Bah, can't decide if I want to keep or sell a wire label/shrink tube printer =(
[18:17:55] <jthornton> quote of the day"Everything seems to work fine but.... I tried on windows xp the KCAM 4 but nothing... "
[18:18:13] <jthornton> "I did the steps as in the manual of the EMC requires but nothing...seems that I do something wrong."
[18:18:35] <cradek> is that a question?
[18:18:47] <cradek> because it's kind of hard to recognize it as such, if so
[18:18:51] <jthornton> not that I could see
[18:20:18] <JPM_MILL> cradek: need help with calibration not poping up
[18:20:27] <jthornton> well time to wander out to the shop and finish setting up the Hardinge for some left hand threads
[18:21:43] <jthornton> JPM_MILL: Servo Axis Calibration pops up for me on 8.04 Axis 2.4.1
[18:21:59] <JPM_MILL> http://pastebin.ca/1882370
[18:23:24] <micges> JPM_MILL: pastebin your hal files
[18:23:32] <JPM_MILL> it was working about a month ago now its not
[18:23:33] <JPM_MILL> ok
[18:24:56] <JPM_MILL> http://pastebin.ca/1882374
[18:25:04] <skunkworks_> in case this was missed.. Proof that we are actually getting somewhere... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MucNO3Dij9o
[18:26:43] <micges> JPM_MILL: you're runing from package or compiled source code ?
[18:26:46] <skunkworks_> first time hydraulics has been up for a few years..
[18:26:53] <JPM_MILL> Package
[18:27:09] <JPM_MILL> 2.4.0
[18:27:20] <micges> you can do small troubleshooting if have few minutes
[18:27:33] <JPM_MILL> sure
[18:28:10] <micges> goto console, type: sudo gedit /usr/bin/emccalib.tcl
[18:30:39] <JPM_MILL> ok gedit opened up with a blank file
[18:31:26] <micges> JPM_MILL: sorry close it, give me few minutes
[18:41:29] <micges> JPM_MILL: ok goto console, change to /usr dir, type 'locate emccalib.tcl'
[18:41:38] <JPM_MILL> http://pastebin.ca/1882384
[18:41:55] <Jymmm> sudo updatedb;locate emccalib.tcl
[18:42:29] <micges> JPM_MILL: ok edit this file as superuser
[18:43:08] <micges> put blank line after line 184
[18:43:58] <micges> and put in that new line 'puts $tmpstring' (without quotes)
[18:44:16] <micges> then save and run calibration again
[18:45:57] <micges> and pastebin console output when it errors
[18:49:17] <JPM_MILL> http://pastebin.ca/1882389
[18:49:53] <micges> $tmpstring not $tempstring
[18:50:01] <JPM_MILL> sorry
[18:52:53] <cradek> truetype tracer has some new features: http://timeguy.com/cradek/01276453959
[18:53:55] <micges> cradek: neat
[18:54:20] <Jymmm> cradek: What does "fill in the letters" do? Purely visual thing, or like v-carving?
[18:54:46] <cradek> Jymmm: you can see it in the screenshot - it does scanlines and then traces the outline
[18:55:35] <Jymmm> cradek: I thought TTT generated g-code?
[18:55:51] <JPM_MILL> http://pastebin.ca/1882391
[18:56:08] <cradek> Jymmm: yes it generates gcode (or dxf)
[18:56:49] <Jymmm> cradek: Ok, so the "FILL" is purely a visual thing (on screen), not remove that area like you would with V-carving?
[18:57:13] <cradek> it cuts out the center of the letters instead of just outlining them
[18:57:26] <Jymmm> Ok, v-carving. cool.
[18:57:48] <Jymmm> cradek: nice job
[18:57:58] <micges> JPM_MILL: ok I've located where is bug
[18:58:25] <JPM_MILL> What Now?
[18:58:53] <micges> you must put space between " and . on line 235
[18:58:58] <micges> of your hal file
[18:59:48] <micges> it should work
[19:00:37] <JPM_MILL> that did it thanks very much
[19:00:49] <micges> welcome
[19:02:25] <JPM_MILL> Micges: do you have time for another?
[19:02:58] <micges> I'll try, go on
[19:04:01] <JPM_MILL> I belive i may have an encoder scalling issue. My setup is 2000 line encoder 3:1 reduction .200" per rev screw
[19:04:25] <JPM_MILL> when i move the axis 6" the axis dro reads 5.3"
[19:04:46] <JPM_MILL> i have a heidinhain dro comparing it to emc
[19:05:37] <JPM_MILL> Could i be missing counts?
[19:08:30] <Endeavour> Hello
[19:09:15] <micges> hi
[19:10:25] <Endeavour> I'm building a Probotix Fireball V90 CNC
[19:10:45] <Endeavour> Does anyone have any suggestions on some bits to use for woodwork, and sources for them?
[19:11:18] <micges> JPM_MILL: when you moving 100mm forward and back in steps 10mm does pos error changes in any way?
[19:11:52] <micges> does it raise proportionally to distance?
[19:12:09] <JPM_MILL> dont know i am just joging via mpg
[19:14:20] <micges> so do small test: goto some pos in that axis, touch off, mark on machine current position of tool, start moving that axis for few minutes then goto zero on that axis and see if it is on place where you've done marks
[19:14:21] <JPM_MILL> it's the same in either direction. if that helps
[19:19:10] <Jymmm> Endeavour: it uses a dremel, so that's 1/8" shank stuff
[19:20:35] <Endeavour> Jymmm: Would you recommend any particular tools, though?
[19:20:55] <Endeavour> This is new to me. Not sure what I need.
[19:21:01] <Jymmm> Yes, I would recommend getting rid of the dremel spindle
[19:21:37] <Jymmm> Endeavour: You've never used a dremel before?
[19:21:58] <JPM_MILL> Micges: works out fine
[19:22:10] <Endeavour> Jymmm: Yes, I have. I have never milled anything before. :P
[19:23:37] <JPM_MILL> Micges: could it be i need more accuarcy on my scaling number the value i have is 133333.3
[19:24:09] <Jymmm> Endeavour: Ok, so what do you plan on doing?
[19:24:37] <micges> JPM_MILL: if markers are on the same place after test then it seems that you have wrong scale on that axis
[19:25:03] <Endeavour> PCB and Wood milling.
[19:26:43] <Jymmm> Endeavour: I think cradek has a source for PCB tooling. And in that video, looks like they are using a rotobit, which is 1/8" shank. 1/4" shank gets you router bits which you can get almost anywhere.
[19:27:34] <JPM_MILL> micges: My scaling should be as follows 8000 * 3 * 5 2000 line encoder 3:1 reduction and 5TPI Correct?
[19:27:35] <Jymmm> Endeavour: I'd email and ask them what tooling they used in that video.
[19:32:59] <micges> JPM_MILL: you have 8000 count per rev or 2000?
[19:34:48] <micges> if 8000 then scale should be 120000
[19:35:06] <micges> bbl
[19:35:20] <JPM_MILL> 2000 line 8000 count. I fixed it I must of been drinking too much when i set the scale i set it to 120000 and all is fine
[19:35:48] <JPM_MILL> Thanks
[19:37:57] <JPM_MILL> I must thank once again all the people that have spent time working on emc. this is a fine piece of software.
[19:43:12] <fragalot> /m/e stretches
[19:43:19] <fragalot> * fragalot stretches
[19:43:22] <fragalot> ^ that one
[22:38:51] <jthornton> this sucks having only one computer that can reach the net :/
[22:39:28] <archivist> add network cables!
[22:41:18] <archivist> sux when you cannot find your box of adjustable spanners
[22:41:59] <andypugh> Surely a box of them is overkill? Just one ought to be enough. (Arguably "none" is plenty)
[22:42:16] <archivist> hmm I collect them :)
[22:42:38] <jthornton> I have network cables all over the place but my internet antenna is down so I'm on dialup :/
[22:42:49] <archivist> there are some good designs, and some truly awful
[22:43:15] <jthornton> anyone ran an arc in 2.4.1 in G18 plane?
[22:43:19] <andypugh> What is your opinion on the correct side to pull on?
[22:43:41] <archivist> and the patents for the adjustables make for entertaining reading
[22:43:58] <archivist> depends on design
[22:45:30] <andypugh> Conventional sliding-jaw with worm type
[22:46:06] <andypugh> jthornton: Not I.
[22:46:48] <archivist> heh wait till I finished my web site, I assume you mean the cresent/bahco form
[22:47:04] <archivist> and not the auto pattern
[22:47:11] <jthornton> I think I have my coordinates and offset correct but I keep getting an error
[22:48:52] <cradek> jthornton: are you sure you have not been replaced by an alien?
[22:48:57] <pfred1> what is an adjustable spanner?
[22:49:04] <cradek> crescent wrench
[22:49:25] <cradek> but I agree - you only need two - one for inch bolts and one for metric
[22:49:44] <pfred1> oh just an adjustable wrench?
[22:49:45] <jthornton> what about left hand fasteners?
[22:49:49] <andypugh> archivist: Aye, that type. I have always said you should push on the moving side, but I saw a Practical Mechanics article saying the opposite. They seemed concerned about the extra hand force on the worm, I am more concerned about the point of contact of the nut.
[22:50:17] <pfred1> I have a two foot one I like ot use to straighten out bumpers and what not
[22:50:37] <cradek> jthornton: you can use the regular inch or metric crescent wrench for lefthand threads - you just flip it over and use your left hand
[22:50:37] <pfred1> its sort of a wrecking bar with a vise on the end
[22:50:40] <archivist> well one way forces the worm and the other forces the loose jaw, you cant win
[22:51:06] <pfred1> I have a really nice 12" bacho I use all the time
[22:51:12] <jthornton> in the shipyard we were trained to pull the wrench with the fixed jaw away from you... then told we can use them on submarines and don't get caught with one on the sub
[22:51:26] <jthornton> can/can't
[22:51:39] <pfred1> this is it: http://www.exetertoolshop.co.uk/images/catalog/BAH8069.jpg
[22:51:42] <cradek> they're not good for much except making knuckles bleed and ruining bolt heads
[22:51:53] <archivist> the number of designs is huge
[22:52:03] <pfred1> my bahco grips better than any fixed wrench
[22:52:18] <pfred1> the jaws angle inwards
[22:52:21] <archivist> cradek, I have some that cannot come loose on the nut
[22:52:38] <cradek> an adjustable turns two points on a nut - a real wrench turns six
[22:52:45] <archivist> even digital adjustables
[22:53:01] <archivist> there are hex adjustables
[22:53:15] <cradek> that sounds cool
[22:53:35] <archivist> I dont have examples yet just seen the patents
[22:54:24] <cradek> jthornton: arcs look fine to me - without your gcode and error message I can't guess what you are doing wrong
[22:54:43] <archivist> patents collected so far http://www.adjustable.archivist.info/patents/
[22:54:43] <andypugh> I am looking at a milling machine on that eBay which has a swivelling table (swivels in C). I can't see what that gains you. (Other than Y and X not being at right angles). OK, thinking some more, as long as you are cutting on the Y it does achieve something.
[22:54:58] <pfred1> archivist heh get the tools
[22:55:16] <archivist> pfred1, I have a "few"
[22:55:45] <pfred1> archivist you should see this freaky wrench I picked up in a box lot guy was an organ tuner that had it
[22:56:55] <pfred1> but out of all the adjustable wrenches i have I like my Bahco the best it never slips
[22:57:36] <archivist> I got one of these on ebay a week ago http://www.adjustable.archivist.info/patents/GB263633A.pdf (drawing 3)
[22:58:25] <pfred1> archivist you really are into this stuff
[22:58:37] <archivist> mebe :)
[22:58:43] <jthornton> cradek: I must have my math wrong if you have no problem with arcs
[22:59:10] <cradek> I ran 3dtest.ngc
[22:59:39] <jthornton> in lathe mode?
[22:59:58] <cradek> jthornton: no, my mind reading was not good enough to know you were on a lathe
[23:00:16] <pfred1> archivist now I'm going to have to get my camera and take a pic of this one wrenc hI have for you
[23:00:47] <jthornton> yea, G18 on axis lathe
[23:01:15] <archivist> pfred1, some I have taken pics of http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv12.php?errlev=0&srcdata=title&searchv4page=1&searchstr=adjustable
[23:02:13] <cradek> jthornton: lathe_pawn.ngc in sim/lathe looks fine
[23:02:37] <jthornton> ok, then it is my brain that is faulty :)
[23:03:13] <archivist> lathe_pawn.ngc takes too large a cut for my little starturn :)
[23:03:37] <jthornton> I just tried it and get a radius to end of arc differs from radius to start in the lower right corner area
[23:03:53] <jthornton> it loaded without error but did not run
[23:04:19] <archivist> tool radiuses ?
[23:04:31] <andypugh> jthornton: I just turned my lathe off, or I could have checked master for you (I haven't got 2.4.1)
[23:04:48] <jthornton> I'm running master on the Hardinge
[23:05:01] <cradek> jthornton: mdi M2 and G8 and reload lathe_pawn
[23:05:11] <jthornton> and 2.4.1 on the sim
[23:05:12] <jthornton> ok
[23:05:31] <cradek> this gcode was from before diameter mode so there's no G8 in it, but there should be
[23:05:57] <jthornton> running for me now
[23:06:02] <jthornton> with g8
[23:06:08] <pfred1> archivist sorry I was AFK
[23:06:24] <jthornton> ok, then it is my calculations for the arc
[23:06:58] <cradek> do you know that when in diameter mode, the I offset is still in radius?
[23:07:04] <andypugh> Just use R, that's what I do when IJ get too frustrating.
[23:07:55] <jthornton> I kinda wondered about that and played with both diameter and radius
[23:08:00] <andypugh> Night all
[23:08:14] <jthornton> goodnight
[23:09:40] <jthornton> * jthornton tries harder the more frustrating it gets :)
[23:09:41] <cradek> jthornton: heh, the docs don't say it do they
[23:09:49] <jthornton> no but they will LOL
[23:10:02] <pfred1> archivist http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5462/fwrench.jpg
[23:10:07] <jthornton> as soon as I get my broadband back up and running
[23:10:33] <archivist> pfred1, good one
[23:10:43] <pfred1> archivist I even use it sometimes
[23:10:53] <pfred1> is it strange though or what?
[23:12:07] <archivist> pretty strange , but normal compared to some of those patents
[23:12:07] <pfred1> archivist I got it in this whole box of junk I paid $5 for
[23:12:38] <pfred1> archivist really the sheet metal shears i got in that box was the best things I found in there
[23:12:56] <pfred1> but i do like this wrench too it has a place of honor in my garage
[23:13:14] <archivist> I borrowed that pic if you dont mind :)
[23:13:22] <pfred1> enjoy :)
[23:13:56] <pfred1> oh I forgot i have to take a pic of the other side its the best part
[23:16:49] <pfred1> archivist http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7655/hwrench.jpg
[23:16:59] <pfred1> its a Hoe of a wrench!
[23:17:59] <pfred1> I think that is just so classic
[23:18:22] <archivist> thanks for the pics http://www.adjustable.archivist.info/images/
[23:19:00] <pfred1> hey you're welcome I'm glad to find someone that appreciates bizarre tools
[23:19:07] <archivist> I am trawling patents and will probably come across the one for yours
[23:19:45] <pfred1> yeah Feb 21 1922 it says on it right?
[23:20:01] <archivist> done 1931-1950 so far more years to do
[23:20:24] <pfred1> you'll get there someday
[23:21:53] <archivist> often the ones I come across are broken due to abuse or poor design or both
[23:22:22] <pfred1> this wrench works OK bit mouse trappish when cocked but other than that
[23:22:38] <pfred1> you sort of have to open it up put it on whatever then close it
[23:32:12] <archivist> I can say 1922 was a vintage years for patents /me just doing that year
[23:32:58] <pfred1> was a big year was it?
[23:46:58] <voxadam> What's the status of EMC's Modbus support?
[23:47:23] <voxadam> Is it suitable for monitoring things like limits?
[23:58:12] <pcw_home> Don't think so as its not realtime