#emc | Logs for 2010-06-11

[01:54:21] <Jymmm> Mn, when I changed the oil on my generator, emptying was no problem. Filling it was a bitch. oil spilled everywhere
[01:54:51] <pfred1> Jymmm /nick BP
[01:55:02] <tom3p> funnel? hose?
[01:55:14] <Jymmm> Let me see if I can find a pic...
[01:56:00] <pfred1> here's my latest: http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6379/lead2b.jpg
[01:57:03] <pfred1> my pseudolathe attempts at turning down ends on my lead screws
[01:57:09] <Jymmm> I bought this tube for it, but I didn't want to overfill it so I didn't use it to fill it http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!BbQt!9QBGk~$(KGrHqMH-DcEqw2h-WdLBKvMR,HRsw~~_12.JPG
[01:57:24] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/Honda-EU2000i-EU2000iA-Generator-NO-MESS-OIL-CHANGES_W0QQitemZ230485008284QQihZ013QQcategoryZ106437QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:57:37] <Jymmm> It's meant to empty the oil w/o a mess
[01:57:57] <pfred1> I can see that not working without a funnel
[01:58:14] <Jymmm> even with a funnel, it be a mess
[01:58:38] <Jymmm> the tube works nicely, but no way of seeing if you've overfilled it untill you remove the tube.
[01:58:57] <pfred1> I got one of these they're all that and a bag of chips: http://i.ehow.com/images/a04/j3/g3/fluid-level-vehicles-automatic-transmissions-1.4-120X120.jpg
[01:59:27] <Valen> I notmally use a coke bottle to do oil changes on my car
[01:59:36] <pfred1> heck I even use mine to blow up my pool cover inflatable pillow
[01:59:36] <Jymmm> So, I hit the dollar store and bought a measuring cup, and filled soda bottles with exactly 13.5 ounces of fresh oil - all nice and pre-mesured now.
[02:00:18] <pfred1> trans funnels rock
[02:00:54] <Jymmm> Yeah, but just where it is I can't see if it gets overfilled or not.
[02:00:56] <tom3p> how often do you change the oil? you in someplace that doesnt have a grid?
[02:01:30] <tom3p> oh, and make an end cap and leave the tube in all the time.
[02:01:32] <Jymmm> It's a Honda EU2000i, If I have to run it for a while, I want oil changes to be painless.
[02:01:46] <Jymmm> Now it is =)
[02:02:00] <Valen> Jymmm: just beware with pre measuring, you probably wont get all the old oil out
[02:02:13] <pfred1> skip that its a small engine just keep it topped up until it croaks
[02:02:35] <Jymmm> pfred1: fsck you and the credit card you rode in on!
[02:02:45] <pfred1> the ignition will go before the cylinder or or piston will
[02:02:46] <tom3p> Jymmm, do you do theatrical lighting? i'm looking for a hi lumen vid projector (>10k)
[02:03:04] <pfred1> I've had plenty of small honda engines
[02:03:10] <Jymmm> at $1400 to replace, I'll give it an oil change any time it wants it =)
[02:03:13] <pfred1> they run forever until they don't
[02:03:13] <Valen> sw_padnos does the lightning doesnt he?
[02:03:38] <Jymmm> tom3p: I was selling the lights for a friend.
[02:03:48] <tom3p> ok thx
[02:03:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, I'm going to baby this one =)
[02:04:05] <tom3p> yeh oil is cheap
[02:04:18] <pfred1> I think the last one that died one me was due to lack of use i think the oil pressure switch locked up on it
[02:04:56] <pfred1> could have been the low fuel too thing gets no ignition at all
[02:05:21] <Jymmm> Well, wehn I bought it, I went straight to the auth service center. One thing they told me is that instead of topping off, just do an oil change instead. Just made sense. There are no oil filters on it.
[02:05:39] <tom3p> pfred1, what was that motor pulley screw thing? does the pulley/nut move along the screw or is it fixed?
[02:05:59] <pfred1> tom3p makes the lead go around so I could grind the end down
[02:06:23] <pfred1> tom3p I plan on using the rubber hose coupler deal on my machine
[02:06:37] <pfred1> so I had to thin the end some for the hose
[02:07:18] <pfred1> none of the lathes i have could i mount this lead in to work it though
[02:07:28] <pfred1> so I had to improvise
[02:07:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: you using a hose instead of a real coupler by choice or costs?
[02:08:13] <pfred1> Jymmm choice I see no real value to the commercial couplers
[02:08:21] <Jymmm> k
[02:08:29] <pfred1> hose looks like it'd work to me I'll let you know how i make out
[02:08:39] <Jymmm> fuel line?
[02:08:44] <pfred1> yup
[02:08:47] <Jymmm> k
[02:08:55] <pfred1> got a nice thick piece of Gates lying around
[02:10:10] <pfred1> I like my bearing holders so much I just may have to make more of them
[02:10:26] <tom3p> maybe put a nut on end, weld plate to nut, welf correct dia shaft to plate ( instead of subtracting, make it by adding )
[02:10:28] <pfred1> I was going to go for more block like bearing holders
[02:11:21] <pfred1> tom3p for my purposes the lead is long enough I'm not looking for a work envelope of more than 2 feet
[02:12:05] <tom3p> you gonna have arms like popeye when you get it dressed down ;)
[02:12:10] <pfred1> I really don't see me ever making a PCB quite that large
[02:13:09] <pfred1> I love these people who make these 4x8 machines then everything they make is about 6"x6" on it
[02:14:00] <Valen> its the 10% of times you want to make something large that you want the big machine
[02:14:14] <Valen> also 10% of the jobs you want to do will be bigger than your machine
[02:14:22] <Valen> (regardless of the size of your machine)
[02:14:36] <pfred1> Valen I know exactly what i want to make and it'll never be that big
[02:16:23] <pfred1> and if I ever do want to cut out barn silhouettes I'll break out a jig saw and cut it out by hand
[02:17:01] <atmega> I need a bigger garage
[02:17:12] <atmega> or some way to convince my wife to not park in it.
[02:17:17] <pfred1> atmega need exersize?
[02:17:48] <pfred1> the bigger the shop the more walking you have ot do in it
[02:20:44] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[02:23:14] <pfred1> I always love the tiny english garden shed workshops
[02:31:25] <pfred1> atmega is your workshop this crowded? http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=1695
[02:58:34] <pcw_home> Heh my linxcnc main page is in cyrillc
[03:02:23] <pcw_home> Ah, must have hit the language button/link by mistake and it remembers...
[06:07:10] <dimas> pcw_home, i could help you with cyrillic if needed.. :)
[07:15:59] <bricofoy> 'morning
[08:41:52] <pjm> MattyMatt YO, btw was it you who tried drawer runners for 'cheap' linear bearings?
[08:47:46] <archivist> it is him yes
[08:49:57] <pjm> ah hi archivist
[08:50:10] <pjm> i wondered what sort of slop they had etc
[08:50:47] <archivist> not something I would do though unless you preload them against each other
[08:50:55] <pjm> i bought a lathe too, considering if i should CNC it or leave it as manual
[08:51:12] <elmo401> I want to CNC mine.
[08:51:27] <pjm> re the drawer slides, i thought about making a smaller lightweight PCB mill
[08:51:30] <elmo401> could still be manual, steppers have little resistance when unpowered
[08:51:37] <archivist> I feel I need a manual lathe more often than cnc
[08:51:40] <pjm> something that can cover 20cm square boards
[08:51:59] <pjm> archivist yeah this is my thoughts too, although i'm still learning how to operate it properly
[08:52:01] <elmo401> now this is more like it: http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=1148
[08:52:06] <pjm> having only ever milled things ;-)
[08:52:48] <archivist> my shed is full
[08:53:08] <elmo401> so... my black coffee and fruit juice diet is working :P
[08:53:13] <elmo401> I race like a piss horse!
[08:53:15] <elmo401> lol
[08:53:52] <archivist> accuracy is needed for a good pcb mill, specially if you are doing microwave
[08:54:50] <archivist> but enough spring loading may be enough to hide errors
[08:56:01] <pjm> i do like sheds
[08:56:08] <pjm> u can never have enough of them
[08:56:41] <archivist> http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=2851
[08:57:15] <pjm> wow thats pretty tidy
[09:00:24] <archivist> crafty/clever advertising for cuprinol
[09:04:02] <pjm> yeah its a good idea on their part
[09:04:47] <pjm> i've just finished integrating a 16 channel opto isolator board into my mill, seems to work pretty nicely
[09:05:04] <pjm> all the nasty EMI is now seperated from the 3v3 logic
[09:13:40] <archivist> I had to take some action with the mill, it needs a bit more though
[09:14:45] <archivist> the steppers drivers have built in optos but they still were effected by the spindle drive
[09:28:23] <pjm> ah yeah VFD noise, I've completly cured that in my mill, ended up putting in a seperate decant quality mains RFI filter, and using screened 4 core to the motor etc
[10:39:55] <pjm__> btw on the sub of linear rails, anyone seen / used https://www.igus.de/wpck/default.aspx?PageNr=2376 ?
[11:11:11] <alex_joni> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100610161411160
[11:33:34] <dimas> good to know
[11:44:25] <pjm__> I wonder if IBM will counter sue, I hope not, it'll cost a lot no doubt
[12:04:23] <elmo401> elmo401 is now known as elmo40
[12:45:26] <skunkworks> Now it is friday!
[12:46:13] <skunkworks> mozmck_work: the wiki on lucid helped a ton getting all the packages install for just sim also. worked great!
[12:46:24] <elmo40> ya, been like that for 8hrs now ;)
[12:47:31] <skunkworks> mozmck_work: http://imagebin.ca/img/SqqMqHC.png
[12:49:18] <elmo40> I need to get back into ladder logic. been over a decade since I played with an Allen Bradley system.
[12:52:04] <alex_joni> skunkworks: hi
[12:52:17] <alex_joni> puma is a brand by unimate
[12:52:21] <alex_joni> later bought by staubli
[12:52:35] <alex_joni> but it was one of the first serial-linked robot arms
[12:52:47] <alex_joni> so all similar designs can be called 'puma-style' arms
[12:53:01] <skunkworks> Ah - ok. Cool
[13:04:11] <alex_joni> "Stanford.s Victor Scheinman, working with Unimation for GM, designed the first such arm used in industry. Called PUMA (Programmable Universal Machine for Assembly), they have been used since 1978 to assemble automobile subcomponents such as dash panels and lights. PUMA was widely imitated, and its descendants,..."
[13:05:19] <alex_joni> skunkworks: http://helix.gatech.edu/Students/SiouxWill/worldmode1.JPG
[13:07:20] <skunkworks> very neat
[13:07:45] <alex_joni> looks quite close to the model I did
[13:08:25] <SWPadnos> apparently Stuart has a 6-joint robot similar to that
[13:08:32] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: cool
[13:08:41] <alex_joni> he could use it as an ATC
[13:09:00] <SWPadnos> he invited us over for a "fest" at his place, I suggested you should come :)
[13:09:53] <alex_joni> hmm.. I have a couple here too.. maybe you could come this way :P
[13:09:56] <alex_joni> for a change
[13:10:01] <SWPadnos> sure :)
[13:10:28] <alex_joni> maybe vacation for next summer, although it gets pretty hot here
[13:10:32] <alex_joni> maybe autumn is better
[13:11:16] <SWPadnos> I think my wife would want to come along, so early August is the latest we could make it
[13:11:29] <SWPadnos> (not for the robots, for the Romania)
[13:11:38] <alex_joni> 91F right now
[13:11:51] <SWPadnos> that's about how Wichita and Chicago were yesterday
[13:11:55] <alex_joni> 98+ for the next couple of days
[13:11:58] <SWPadnos> only 60 here though, nice and cool
[13:12:03] <SWPadnos> eek, that's a bit high
[13:12:06] <alex_joni> and it's not fully summer yet
[13:12:55] <jlmjvm> wow,thats hotter than alabama
[13:16:56] <jlmjvm> is there any old sample configs using freqgen with pid anywhere?
[13:18:34] <SWPadnos> I don't think so, that's not something we would want to promote ;)
[13:18:58] <SWPadnos> though a USC config would be close, that's more or less what the USC does
[13:19:13] <alex_joni> except some parts are internally in the USC
[13:19:30] <SWPadnos> of course, like the frequency generator and encoder counter
[13:19:48] <SWPadnos> but the PID setup and feedback connections are similar
[13:20:16] <jlmjvm> looking for something to compare my pid numbers to
[13:22:00] <jlmjvm> what was the diff between freqge,pid,stepper vs stepgen,pid,stepper?
[13:23:55] <jlmjvm> i have a working config,homing to index does work,but i get an annoying movement occasionally .0001 plus or minus
[13:24:44] <SWPadnos> are you using stepgen in V mode, or freqgen?
[13:25:00] <SWPadnos> (shouldn't matter, just curious)
[13:25:03] <jlmjvm> stepgen v
[13:25:06] <SWPadnos> ok
[13:25:40] <SWPadnos> actually, I think there is one difference between stepgen in V and freqgen - stepgen still applies its own accel limits whereas freqgen doesn't
[13:27:03] <jlmjvm> if i could just get rid of the motor twitch it would be awesome
[13:28:25] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.com/jC7Htmp7
[13:28:44] <jlmjvm> my current config
[13:29:23] <SWPadnos> one way to do it may be to home twice, possibly with going to machine off in between
[13:29:55] <SWPadnos> does the twitch depend on where the machine was when you turned it on?
[13:30:04] <SWPadnos> (or started emc)
[13:30:07] <jlmjvm> no
[13:31:46] <jlmjvm> it totally intermittent,before homing,after homing,any random machine position,and its not constant either
[13:31:56] <SWPadnos> ?
[13:32:11] <SWPadnos> I thought it was always just after homing
[13:32:28] <jlmjvm> its like its trying to occasionally correct itself
[13:32:49] <SWPadnos> that's possible, with such high I gains
[13:33:00] <SWPadnos> 800 is huge
[13:33:30] <jlmjvm> when i lower the I it seems to get worse
[13:33:35] <pcw_home> whats your encoder resolution?
[13:33:54] <jlmjvm> 1024 quadrature
[13:34:04] <jlmjvm> 20480 per inch
[13:34:27] <pcw_home> OK so you have a ~ 2 count dead zone..
[13:34:28] <SWPadnos> incindentally, that's usually put in the ini file as INPUT_SCALE
[13:34:38] <SWPadnos> only 1 count for output though
[13:34:41] <SWPadnos> those are 10000
[13:35:11] <jlmjvm> so move that from the hal file?
[13:35:30] <SWPadnos> not necessary, but it does keep all the numbers in one place (the ini file)
[13:36:05] <jlmjvm> k,thats where it was from the old days when i just had feedback
[13:36:18] <SWPadnos> yeah, it's not wrong the way it is :)
[13:37:55] <jlmjvm> k,will move that later,want a proper config
[13:38:26] <SWPadnos> you're talking about an annoying movement that's one step in either direction
[13:38:39] <SWPadnos> you have deadband at exactly one step
[13:38:49] <SWPadnos> which is not an integer number of encoder counts
[13:39:10] <SWPadnos> so here's my (totally unsubstantiated) theory:
[13:40:09] <SWPadnos> sometimes, the encoder feedback is just slightly more than 0.0001 away from the command position, say the error is 0.000101
[13:40:48] <SWPadnos> so every millisecond, another 0.000101 inches gets added into the integrator
[13:41:00] <elmo40> fun :/
[13:41:09] <SWPadnos> eventually, the difference is enough to cause one step
[13:41:38] <moop> moop is now known as mooop
[13:41:54] <SWPadnos> you then either get lucky and have encoder feedback that's just under 0.0001 (meaning that the machine stays where it is)
[13:42:13] <SWPadnos> or it's off just a little bit and the machine eventually goes back to where it was
[13:42:16] <SWPadnos> and the cycle repeats
[13:42:42] <jlmjvm> the vicious cycle,lol
[13:42:46] <SWPadnos> eh
[13:42:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:43:24] <SWPadnos> so this is likely due to a mismatch between the step and encoder resolutions, and the DEADBAND setting
[13:43:31] <cradek> maybe you don't want any I gain at all, just P and FF1 and maybe D if it's unstable
[13:43:48] <moop> Hi all, anyone know about problems with more than 4 axes on parallel port?
[13:43:56] <SWPadnos> DEADBAND should probably be based on feedback resolution, not step resolution
[13:44:23] <jlmjvm> so use 1 encoder count for deadband?
[13:44:26] <cradek> I recommend also trying deadband=0
[13:44:27] <moop> I am finding pins 9,14,16,17 causing stepping problems
[13:44:31] <SWPadnos> but still higher than one step
[13:44:41] <SWPadnos> moop, what kind of problems?
[13:45:21] <jlmjvm> will try that
[13:45:23] <cradek> moop: on some parports, pins other than 2-9 have weaker drivers. check your signal integrity.
[13:45:58] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, hmmm, maybe just higher than 1/2 step (or 0 as cradek suggests, with low/no I)
[13:46:19] <moop> I have built a 6 axis driver from ULN2003 in a quadrature mode (stepgen 2), and X,Y,Z,A work fine but B and C dont rotate
[13:46:22] <SWPadnos> so 2 encoder counts, since 1/20480 is slightly less than 1/2 step at 1/10000
[13:46:53] <jlmjvm> k,machine on,fixing to try to tune
[13:46:56] <SWPadnos> look at the pins with an oscilloscope
[13:47:17] <cradek> my thinking (and experience on my mill) is you're always going to jitter between encoder counts, and if deadband is zero you'll jitter between adjacent counts. deadband just makes it wider.
[13:47:21] <moop> OK cheers for advice, I go check the parallel port signals
[13:48:06] <SWPadnos> cradek, the complication here is that it's a stepper machine, with 10000 steps/inch, but 20480 encoder counts/inch
[13:48:14] <SWPadnos> so one step will move 2 or 3 counts, depending
[13:48:34] <cradek> seems like then you definitely don't want I to build up and cause that step
[13:48:54] <pcw_home> Can you increasw your microstep/step ratio?
[13:48:57] <cradek> but yeah maybe you want to use deadband in that case - not sure
[13:49:10] <SWPadnos> I think that's what it's for, but also not sure
[13:49:15] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm is the guinea pig :)
[13:49:23] <jlmjvm> lol
[13:50:05] <jlmjvm> so lose the I and deadband ?
[13:50:15] <pcw_home> A step motor system is a little different, and dead band would be more useful since it has torque even wene in the deadband
[13:50:18] <cradek> that is one thing to try, yes
[13:50:32] <jlmjvm> k
[13:50:59] <cradek> pcw_home: true - with zero pid output, it will actually hold position, unlike a servo
[13:54:50] <jlmjvm> wow,everything is 0 except for ff1 is set at 1,and no twitch
[13:55:06] <jlmjvm> and it homed to index
[13:55:34] <SWPadnos> move to some spot, like X1.2973, and see what happens
[13:55:41] <SWPadnos> (number picked at random)
[13:55:56] <SWPadnos> actually, nothing will happen, so nevermind :)
[13:56:18] <jlmjvm> nothing is good sometimes
[13:56:28] <SWPadnos> with no I, there will be no additional motion. the "danger" is that the stepgen may not get to the spot you want
[14:00:22] <pcw_home> Yes with only FF1 I dont think the encoder is even in the loop (there s no loop!)
[14:00:36] <SWPadnos> right
[14:01:09] <SWPadnos> with no P, I, or D, the encoder is unused for positioning
[14:03:52] <jlmjvm> right,theres no loop,everything is off about .0005,but its homing to index and no motor twitch
[14:04:56] <pcw_home> well throw your encoders away, they obviously just cause trouble!
[14:06:13] <cradek> add P until it becomes unstable, then add a little D to calm it down, and retest
[14:07:32] <jlmjvm> will do,its already better than ever
[14:07:42] <cradek> well except for being in the wrong position
[14:08:32] <pcw_home> (and with just FF1 you will probably get drift)
[14:09:17] <jlmjvm> no drift yet,has not twitched once since change
[14:09:54] <pcw_home> I mean over many moves, not static drift
[14:09:54] <SWPadnos> if accurate positioning is unimportant to you, there's no reason to use encoders
[14:10:25] <SWPadnos> unless you're looking for a way to detect following errors
[14:11:27] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, actually, eventually there should be enough drift to cause a following error
[14:11:57] <SWPadnos> though the slight errors should more or less randomly cancel, given roughly equal numbers of motions in each direction
[14:19:33] <pcw_home> I guess clock speed errors cancel out with FF1 only
[14:20:33] <SWPadnos> I think stepgen still applies accel limits when in V mode, so canceling out may also depend on actual speed, etc
[14:20:38] <SWPadnos> and move length
[14:22:48] <Jymmm> Aloha
[14:27:39] <pcw_home> Sounds like the step/dir with feedback system would work pretty well for step/dir servos as long as the step resolution was high enough
[14:29:44] <pcw_home> Not much different than analog velocity servos except the velocity is output a a rate instead of a voltage
[14:53:54] <Jymmm> Aloha, Hola, Greetings
[14:56:14] <Jymmm> tap tap tap... Is this thing on???
[14:56:30] <bricofoy> hi
[14:56:39] <Jymmm> hello =)
[14:57:01] <kgartner> yea, so as it turns out when you write componets you have to name the component and the filename the same thing :)
[14:57:29] <Jymmm> Who woulda thunk it ;)
[14:57:55] <Jymmm> kgartner: Say it with me.... ALL I WANT IS MY M-TV!
[14:59:02] <kgartner> haha, yea, I'm trying to convince the guy I work with that realtime linux is the way to go, not writing our own code from scratch with a bunch of usleep() calls
[14:59:26] <Jymmm> ewwwwwwwwww
[15:00:03] <kgartner> yea, it's like trying to bulid a space shuttle with a hammer and hacksaw
[15:01:04] <Jymmm> kgartner: Please, don't take this the wrong way, but what you're trying to accomplish for your thesis is, um... Been there, Done that by many mfg's, and not necessarily a "novel" idea.
[15:01:44] <Jymmm> If this is somethign that YOU want, why not plagerize? =)
[15:03:34] <kgartner> yea, I know, this is just for my reasearch assistantship, it's what pays the bills, and really only tangentially related to what's actually going in my thesis
[15:03:52] <Jymmm> kgartner: Ah, ok. =)
[15:04:39] <Jymmm> kgartner: Do I dare ask what your thesis is? LOL
[15:06:08] <kgartner> attitude determination with kalman filters
[15:06:31] <Jymmm> kgartner: Better you than me! LOL
[15:07:34] <kgartner> haha, which has also already been done in a lot of respects, but it's just a master's thesis and my advisor seems to think it's good enough
[15:09:18] <Jymmm> Yeah, there is no such thing as an "original idea" but original application is another story.
[15:11:16] <jlmjvm> its getting way better now P=10,D=.1,FF1=1,deadband=.00004
[15:13:33] <Jymmm> kgartner: did you ever see this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter#Example_application
[15:17:02] <Jymmm> kgartner: If you want to take it a step further, you could always use the data collection for the elevation of sats and then use Kalman Filters to determne the time accuracy to a greater precision without utilizing the encrypted military side of it.
[15:19:16] <Jymmm> kgartner: Since you are a part of a Uni, you *MIGHT* be able to get sponsored to obtain credentials for comparison.
[15:21:01] <kgartner> yes, I'm very familiar with that paritcular webpage :) I do a lot of stuff with sensor fusion, but with lots of sensors and lots of degrees of freedom
[15:21:25] <kgartner> sponsored to obtain credentials?
[15:22:31] <kgartner> I just want to get out of here and start making money so I can fund my own projects
[15:22:46] <Jymmm> kgartner: Yes. To obtain crypto keys to access the military side of GPS, you MUST be sponsored by a government entity... FBI, NSA, .mil, DOE, etc
[15:23:06] <Jymmm> or guberment contractor
[15:23:17] <skunkworks> or china. ;)
[15:23:25] <Jymmm> heh
[15:23:39] <Jymmm> kgartner: It's a "Who the hell are you?" sorta thing
[15:24:22] <jlmjvm> cradek:thanks
[15:24:23] <kgartner> oh, yea but if you know how to implement a kalman filter you can get a gps+IMU thats accurate to under a centimeter with comercial gear
[15:24:33] <frallzor> lo kids
[15:24:45] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:thanks
[15:25:19] <jlmjvm> pcw_home:thanks
[15:25:24] <Jymmm> kgartner: IMU being the ground point of ref?
[15:26:00] <kgartner> inertial measurement unit, accelerometers and rate gyros usually
[15:26:48] <Jymmm> kgartner: I know nothing of that. Usually I see the Surveyers use a Ground POF to obtain that sort of accuracy
[15:27:14] <Jymmm> Trimble sells that stuff (and the mil gear too)
[15:27:41] <Jymmm> But the bastards won't sell to me! LOL
[15:27:52] <kgartner> yea, it's expensive to do, the big thing now is to buy one for your combine and you can let it harvest for you
[15:27:52] <jlmjvm> i can not believe this is working this well,again thanks for the input guys
[15:28:31] <jlmjvm> bbiab
[15:29:03] <Jymmm> kgartner: The ONLY thing I'd ever need a colubine for is still illegal on the federal side =)
[15:29:41] <MattyMatt> pjm__: if you're still here, yes I use drawer runners
[15:29:42] <Jymmm> So that aint gonna happen anytime soon, till the laws change
[15:30:01] <MattyMatt> and they work very well indeed
[15:30:10] <pjm__> MattyCNC ah ok interesting what types?
[15:30:21] <pjm__> i am thinking of making a small pcb mill u see
[15:30:54] <kgartner> lol, but just think, you'd know the /exact/ location of your questionable activites!
[15:31:07] <MattyMatt> I used the full extension type, which are 2 ball races inside each other
[15:31:14] <Jymmm> kgartner: So would everyone else =)
[15:31:39] <frallzor> * frallzor is happy, the mill is running once again
[15:31:44] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: But those aren't supported when you fully extend
[15:32:02] <frallzor> its even behaving good
[15:32:20] <Jymmm> frallzor: QUICK toss in some pea gravel!
[15:32:27] <frallzor> nevvah!
[15:32:31] <Jymmm> heh
[15:32:38] <frallzor> caint wait until this job is done
[15:32:56] <frallzor> my first "advanced" design of my own
[15:33:20] <frallzor> could turn out great, could turn out looking like a turd :)
[15:33:20] <Jymmm> frallzor: Does the ADVANCE design include duct tape and bailing wire?
[15:33:29] <frallzor> yes, lots and lots of it
[15:33:34] <Jymmm> Hawt Damn!
[15:33:36] <frallzor> and squirrels
[15:33:49] <frallzor> mostly live ones
[15:33:49] <Jymmm> I dun wanna know bout that!
[15:34:41] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/MaewKNWuP/?size=fullsize actually making this
[15:34:55] <frallzor> with a nice edge too
[15:35:15] <mIreland> Good morning all. I've been away a while.
[15:35:16] <Jymmm> What material?
[15:35:21] <frallzor> oak
[15:36:10] <Jymmm> frallzor: It's "stringy". Use a kitchen scotch-bright pad to remove the burrs
[15:36:23] <MattyMatt> http://imagebin.ca/view/tt45r26C.html
[15:36:24] <Jymmm> Works very well.
[15:36:35] <frallzor> you know its just a render right? :P
[15:36:39] <MattyMatt> rranged 2 pairs thus
[15:36:51] <Jymmm> frallzor: I mean when you start making sawdust
[15:36:58] <MattyMatt> steel angle would be better than the wood beams
[15:37:05] <mIreland> i have a ridiculous question. Can a Mesa 5i20 be inserted backwards and still function? I'm expecting a big loud No.
[15:37:11] <frallzor> yeah that I know, good you said it
[15:37:20] <frallzor> I need to get that non-soaped
[15:37:38] <frallzor> might have the time now
[15:37:59] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Ok, so you used the base of two slide to give the added support?
[15:38:51] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Because as drawn, I see the the top rear most slide NOT supported on the left side when fully extended
[15:39:03] <mIreland> Is there anybody in San Diego in here today?
[15:39:12] <MattyMatt> 2 support vertically, but they flex in X and C axis without the other pair
[15:39:49] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Ok, so you used the base of two slides to give the added support?
[15:39:59] <pcw_home> mIreland: in the PCI slot? I'd expect that would at minimum, short out the PCs power supply
[15:40:29] <MattyMatt> the X axis runs across the middle, where all 4 slides give full support
[15:40:44] <Jymmm> mIreland: Yes, but ONE time only. =)
[15:40:53] <MattyMatt> there is an overlap of 4" or so, and the X runs right up that
[15:41:02] <Jymmm> and only for 0.00023 seconds
[15:41:09] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: ok
[15:41:40] <Jymmm> mIreland: and only after you file a notch in the board
[15:42:02] <mIreland> i figured as much, but it is not keyed a particular way and it's firmware is loaded from the computer.
[15:42:13] <mIreland> but i agree, it seems like a bad idea
[15:42:24] <Jymmm> mIreland: But the PCI pinout is not the same reversed
[15:43:06] <mIreland> good, i can put that hairbrained idea to bed rite now.
[15:44:41] <Jymmm> You could unsolder the existing connector that comes out the back, then solder in your own IDC header to use a ribbon cable internally
[15:45:20] <Jymmm> May void warranty, blah blah blah
[15:46:39] <pcw_home> One of those PCI riser cards may help also
[15:46:39] <mIreland> nah. we aren't pressed for space that bad. It would have fit very cleanly that way though.
[15:47:34] <pcw_home> Or a 5I23 if length is a problem
[15:48:39] <mIreland> say, anybody want to swap a 7i33 for a 7i37? my guy making purchases got his wires crossed.
[15:50:57] <pcw_home> Just call up Lily at Mesa and say you ordered the wrong thing. they will swap it for you
[15:51:18] <mIreland> i love doing business with good people.
[15:54:05] <pcw_home> Heck if we cant be high tech or low cost at least we can be nice...
[15:55:56] <tom3p> i think you got all 3 ( been to aerotech lately? ;)
[16:16:07] <frallzor> the result so far of the job can be desribed with one word: awesome
[16:20:11] <tom3p> nautilus took >5 min to display a directory with >600 .debs in it in list mode. i turned off 'assistive technologies, looged out & back in, now its fine :P
[16:21:05] <frallzor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCeemi8dLRA todays home made porn
[17:01:14] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI0HW_2Xkh4&feature=player_embedded#! Cheap entertainment... for the dog
[17:03:43] <Jymmm> frallzor: yours?
[17:03:49] <frallzor> mine?
[17:03:53] <frallzor> the dog? :P
[17:03:56] <Jymmm> router
[17:03:59] <frallzor> yup
[17:04:05] <Jymmm> spindle?
[17:04:06] <frallzor> up and running again
[17:04:17] <frallzor> yes it has a spindle! good guess
[17:04:24] <Jymmm> *SMACK*
[17:04:44] <Jymmm> Is it really that quiet?
[17:04:48] <frallzor> some Italian HF spindle
[17:04:51] <frallzor> 2kW
[17:05:50] <frallzor> I guess its that "quiet" =)
[17:15:10] <frallzor> the finnishing is turning out awesome, just might be an issue for the tool to reach one part, that is annoying
[17:57:24] <frallzor> oh my, it wasnt an issue
[17:57:32] <frallzor> this will be the best milling day ever!
[18:02:11] <MattyMatt> I had my first ballistic endmill yesterday
[18:02:35] <MattyMatt> collet survived, thankfully
[18:03:36] <MattyMatt> only mishap in 3 days of 12hrs solid milling
[18:04:12] <MattyMatt> maybe these mendels aren't a way to make a living after all :)
[18:05:25] <mIreland> is there anybody in here from San Diego? I'm down here for a visit, and I'm hoping to find other emc wizrds while i'm here
[18:05:31] <MattyMatt> we'll see tho. I'll find out how much lovingly carved oak is worth compared to plastic. I'm guessing 75% as much
[18:09:13] <MattyMatt> unless I paint it green, then it's worth as much as plastic. there's ano accounting for taste :)
[18:10:27] <MattyMatt> I'm planning to sell one raw, one with white undercoat, and one painted green, to get a feel for the value
[18:11:32] <frallzor> finishing done!
[18:11:40] <frallzor> and its bloody awesome
[18:12:00] <MattyMatt> more picture carving?
[18:12:26] <MattyMatt> I haven't tried that yet, not even mt rushmore
[18:12:27] <frallzor> more like "art"
[18:13:30] <MattyMatt> I haven't got spare wood for art
[18:14:03] <MattyMatt> I want to mill a big circle of ply, just for the hell of it, but I need all my scraps
[18:14:33] <dimas> MattyMatt, you doing mendel out of oak? it gives me some hope...
[18:15:13] <MattyMatt> what are you doing? mdf?
[18:16:09] <frallzor> me?
[18:16:16] <MattyMatt> dimas
[18:16:25] <dimas> nothing, I do not have a mill yet
[18:16:50] <MattyMatt> ah OK, you making one?
[18:17:14] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt recommends drawer slides for the table
[18:18:17] <MattyMatt> only for the table tho, it's the only place to deal with the extending bits, unless you want them poking up the top of the Z
[18:18:21] <dimas> just wanting, could not figured out where to buy appropriate plastic locally and see wood more accessible
[18:18:33] <MattyMatt> mine is 3/4" ply
[18:19:29] <MattyMatt> with some good 3" beams, all bolted together with dowel nuts
[18:21:09] <dimas> MattyMatt, interesting
[18:21:58] <MattyMatt> I think I will publish this design. after seeing this unimpressive lightweight THK slide, and seeing in their catalog they sell drawer sildes identical to mine, I've decided my moving table is actually rather good for the money
[18:24:23] <dimas> MattyMatt, what slide type in the original design?
[18:24:41] <MattyMatt> this is an original design
[18:25:04] <dimas> ok
[18:25:16] <MattyMatt> I stole the idea for using beams under the table from a solsylva one
[18:25:50] <dimas> is there an url to look?
[18:26:11] <MattyMatt> nope
[18:26:49] <dimas> http://www.solsylva.com/ ?
[18:26:51] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt looks for tired old photo of nearly built, with PC portable on the table
[18:27:07] <MattyMatt> could be
[18:28:15] <MattyMatt> the 13x13 fixed gantry. I have beams that way but thicker, with the slides attached to them
[18:29:05] <MattyMatt> that makes it easy to align all 4 slides
[18:32:01] <MattyMatt> they are very inch, tho. they are as bad as a mcwire if your local DIY store is metric
[18:33:12] <MattyMatt> so unless you live in USA or Sri Lanka, don't bother buying their plans :) just eyeball the photos
[18:34:38] <dimas> i'm in Russia, so metric and not good diy store for cnc thing
[18:36:56] <frallzor> finally its done
[18:37:02] <frallzor> first job with the new computer
[18:37:22] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/EpqqlaTTG/ pretty snazzy
[18:38:24] <dimas> frallzor, looks great
[18:38:50] <dimas> MattyMatt, thanks
[18:45:32] <MattyMatt> nice one frallzor. for a cafe?
[18:46:11] <MattyMatt> woodcladding your own fridge? :)
[18:46:32] <MattyMatt> I wouldn't call it art so much as advertising
[18:47:26] <frallzor> cola = art =(
[18:47:38] <frallzor> its for me :P
[18:47:44] <frallzor> gonna try and paint it too
[18:47:50] <frallzor> retrostyle
[18:47:53] <MattyMatt> there's no coca in it. they lie
[18:48:57] <MattyMatt> I can remember believing there was, at one time
[18:49:25] <MattyMatt> that was word up in my yard
[18:52:21] <MattyMatt> retro style? no blue leds? :D
[19:06:23] <frallzor> coca in cola is an urban myth :)
[19:12:35] <SWPadnos> it's a historical fact
[19:12:43] <SWPadnos> but not for the last 100 years or so
[19:13:55] <MattyMatt> I thought it was funny with all the crackdowns at the Atlanta olympics and the stadium was full of big Coke cans
[19:14:06] <SWPadnos> in 1996?
[19:14:14] <MattyMatt> roundabout then
[19:14:38] <SWPadnos> security there wasn't so bad, until the little bomb went off
[19:14:45] <SWPadnos> then it was annoying for a few days
[19:15:27] <MattyMatt> that's when they started all the banning for aspirin that they still do now
[19:15:44] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what you're talking about (and I was there)
[19:16:14] <MattyMatt> in the 70s, all the russian women had testicles, they taken so many steroids :)
[19:16:44] <MattyMatt> they took home the shot put medal, no questions asked
[19:18:15] <MattyMatt> I reckon they should have a separate category, for those who want to compete against other clean-living people
[19:18:34] <MattyMatt> men, women, and pantywaists :)
[19:19:51] <MattyMatt> banning drugs sends a clear message to kids that they work
[19:56:50] <frallzor> I do love the new computer, it really loves my mill =)
[19:56:55] <frallzor> atom ftfw
[20:23:21] <_abc_> Hello
[20:24:04] <_abc_> Is it still possible to use a simple quadrature servo driver with emc2? I can't find the settings for it. This is just theory for now, but any hints would be welcome. Thanks.
[20:24:35] <cradek> what do you mean by quadrature servo driver
[20:26:04] <_abc_> I mean two parallel port bits, each going to one phase driver of a stepper motor with 2 phases.
[20:26:18] <_abc_> No step/direction signal but direct drive
[20:28:18] <_abc_> Like having a L298 directly connected to the parallel port.
[20:29:20] <archivist> most sensible people dont connect directly, you dont want to kill the pc when you let the smoke out
[20:29:21] <cradek> stepgen can generate all sorts of step waveforms: see the documentation for a complete list
[20:29:45] <_abc_> Do you have a link. I tried to look it up but I apparently used the wrong keywords.
[20:31:05] <cradek> www.linuxcnc.org, click documentation, click all documentation in html
[20:31:39] <cradek> scroll down, click stepgen.9
[20:32:42] <_abc_> Ah http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html got it.
[20:32:57] <_abc_> This should be linked from the FAQ I think, I had a hard time finding it
[20:33:05] <_abc_> I thought quadrature mode was removed ...
[20:34:56] <cradek> without an L297 driving it you won't get chopping or any other current limiting - you'd be smart to use the L298 the traditional way if you're driving a stepper with it
[20:35:22] <cradek> but all the hardware issues aside, stepgen can do whatever you need
[20:35:28] <skunkworks> _abc_ I thought you got it working...
[20:35:39] <skunkworks> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106783
[20:36:11] <_abc_> skunkworks: It was not me asking for it but since I looked it up I wanted to see the answer too
[20:36:25] <skunkworks> heh - ok.
[20:36:26] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:10:03] <frallzor> seems silly do it like that
[21:18:00] <frallzor> why would one consider do to it like that?
[21:18:05] <frallzor> just because its possible?
[21:48:46] <kgartner> does anyone have experience with running the linux real time stuff on a dedicated second core? how much of a performance boost do you get?
[21:56:44] <cradek> I have a system set up that way. It improves the latency, cutting it in about half.
[21:58:27] <frallzor> oh how?
[22:16:25] <cradek> the tradeoff of course is losing that cpu for normal userland stuff
[22:16:43] <cradek> so I don't recommend it unless you need that incremental improvement in latency
[22:19:29] <frallzor> 15000 seems pretty fair to use I assume?
[22:19:36] <frallzor> no need for tweaks then?
[22:19:45] <cradek> 15000 is fine for almost all systems
[22:20:11] <frallzor> around 8000 without moving glxgears around and alot of windows
[22:20:16] <cradek> 15-20000 is quite typical of a well working system
[22:22:01] <frallzor> ah nice
[22:24:53] <kgartner> I'm trying to bitbang spi, so it's taking a bit more overhead than a normal system
[22:26:49] <kgartner> I was under the impresion that it would get rid of nearly all latency
[22:27:19] <cradek> it definitely helps
[22:30:19] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/latency-smp.png
[22:30:36] <cradek> my results on that machine look pretty good. I let this run while installing updates
[22:31:47] <kgartner> is that just a core2-duo or similar?
[22:32:07] <cradek> it's a dual P3 1000
[22:33:23] <kgartner> cool, thanks it helps to have some numbers to look at :)
[22:33:44] <frallzor> wow
[22:33:44] <cradek> yeah but that's nothing like a modern machine
[22:34:09] <cradek> P3s seem pretty good at realtime
[22:34:20] <cradek> bbl
[22:34:22] <pfred1> I have a single P3
[22:34:41] <pfred1> I think it gets 15000 or so latency
[22:35:14] <kgartner> that's what I'm running now, P3 and I get around 10000
[22:36:29] <pfred1> there is probbaly something I can disable in the OS that might help me or maybe the hardware just isn't the greatest I think its a gateway PC or something I forget
[22:37:04] <pfred1> it stops me from running 16th microstepping but thats about it
[22:37:49] <kgartner> yea, it probably really doesn't make a huge diff, I'm running xfce for what it's worth
[22:38:09] <pfred1> oh this is all in the default gnome desktop
[22:38:49] <pfred1> with ext3 which if I had it to do all over again I'd pick ext2
[22:40:39] <kgartner> faster?
[22:41:26] <pfred1> the journal in ext3 can't help
[22:41:37] <pfred1> it runs constantly
[22:42:26] <kgartner> ahh, makes sense
[22:43:06] <pfred1> and i never disabled sound or the networking nothing
[22:43:23] <pfred1> though i never did hook speakers up to that system either
[22:43:50] <pfred1> so its pretty stupid to be running the sound I suppose
[22:44:18] <kgartner> but then you could have it beep to let you know you're done!
[22:44:44] <kgartner> you know... if the sound of the spindle stopping wasnt enough...
[22:44:49] <pfred1> yeah I'm not sure if PC speaker is a different kernel module or not never paid much attention ot it all ever
[22:45:17] <pfred1> I know the regular sound module can emulate PC speaker
[22:45:54] <kgartner> yea, I don't know that anyone ever really cared enough
[22:46:22] <pfred1> but I think the stock PC speaker does in fact work on that system
[22:46:36] <pfred1> think i can remember it beeping on boot ups and whatnot
[22:46:47] <kgartner> yea, I think that's a bios thing though
[22:47:05] <pfred1> its a hardware thing if the speaker isn't there or hooked up etc
[22:47:26] <pfred1> I build lots of systems where i don't bother with PC speaker
[22:47:55] <pfred1> but I think on that particular board its integrated right on the mobo
[22:49:08] <pfred1> I can remember one old PC I had the PC speaker was so loud i had to put it into an empty glass stuffed with paper towels to muffle it playing Doom
[22:49:37] <pfred1> gave it nicer bass response too I thought :)
[22:50:22] <pfred1> computers are an awful lot of fun aren't they?
[22:51:22] <kgartner> haha, yea, you'd think if you're going through all that trouble the speaker would be easy to get right
[22:51:33] <celeron55> how about a series resistor? :P
[22:51:51] <pfred1> how about there was an empty glass on my desk and some paper towels close at hand?
[22:52:28] <pfred1> it stayed that way for months too until i got another PC