#emc | Logs for 2010-05-30

[00:06:51] <morfic> cryo stuff, audiophiles buy cryo treated cables because they sound better, usually they order them with their hospital grade AC cords for their amps....
[00:07:40] <andypugh> Anything audiophiles buy is a sure-fire sign of fruitloopery
[00:08:40] <andypugh> The poer-cord thing is just hilarious, unless they re-wire their houses back to the power station with OFC too.
[00:08:43] <morfic> i need to find something i can make and can make some crazy claim about, for audiophiles
[00:09:19] <morfic> andypugh: a thought often brought up, but it never gets much responses, if you do not respond, it's not a valid claim!
[00:11:20] <morfic> i think while waiting between dress rehearsal numbers, i found some more useful stuff on intersections
[00:13:26] <DaViruz> andypugh: that's a little weird, since it's basically just an overpressure explosion i would have assumed some part of the bottle would just give way and the N2 escapes
[00:14:31] <andypugh> I think that the plastic becomes very brittle because of the cold, and when it ruptures the shock wave shatters it all.
[00:14:54] <DaViruz> sounds reasonable i suppose
[00:15:21] <DaViruz> too bad i don't have a supply of LiqN2, i would love to try :)
[00:15:40] <DaViruz> although we don't have 3l bottles here, only 1.5 and 2
[00:15:42] <morfic> plausible theory, seeing how you can hammer a rose to pieces, and it was more flexible than the bottle to begin with
[00:19:12] <morfic> looks like i lost myself in the wrong channel
[00:20:48] <DaViruz> http://daviruz.meeep.net/vassthlmrutt.png
[00:20:54] <DaViruz> there, my boat trip all planned out
[00:20:58] <DaViruz> now i can finally get some sleep
[00:35:28] <JT-Hardinge> damm I get tired of ramming the friken tool into the chuck :/
[00:41:58] <andypugh> One advantage of a weak stepper system like mine, you get away with that.
[00:45:08] <andypugh> DaViruz: I have been looking at a rather longer boat trip, but it's too expensive: http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/Home
[00:50:38] <pengui1> hi,  anyone know how use velocity mode?
[00:51:54] <pengui1> in velocity mode, if i need go from X100 to X200
[00:52:18] <pengui1> the sintax is: G1X100 F400, G1X200 F400
[00:52:28] <pengui1> where the command "F" is speed ?
[00:53:18] <JT-Hardinge> for g codes it don't matter what mode you use
[00:53:22] <andypugh> pengui1: You need to look at what comes out of the Motion module, and how you can use those signals
[00:53:54] <pengui1> JT-Hardinge: the "F" command for speed is ok then?
[00:54:02] <pengui1> i think is for feed rate too
[00:54:07] <JT-Hardinge> F is feed rate
[00:54:14] <andypugh> Yes, and no.
[00:54:19] <pengui1> so, how i set the speed'
[00:54:43] <JT-Hardinge> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:F:-Set-Feed
[00:55:15] <andypugh> I think he is actually asking a rather different question
[00:55:19] <JT-Hardinge> some cruising through the docs would help http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html
[00:55:38] <JT-Hardinge> what speed?
[00:55:57] <pengui1> if i want set a constant speed
[00:56:08] <pengui1> for move from X100 to X200
[00:56:13] <andypugh> He is trying to raster a laser at constant speed, and seems to have decided that a velocity mode stepgen is the way.
[00:56:25] <pengui1> thanks andy ;)
[00:56:53] <andypugh> now, I am surprised that it doesn't just work already.
[00:57:58] <andypugh> pengui1: When you tried using Z for intensity, did you look at the scan speed in Halscope, or are you basing your assesment on the laser image? Is it possible that the laser isn't behaving itself?
[00:58:45] <JT-Hardinge> G1 X200 F400 means goto X200 from where you are at a feed rate of 400 units IF YOU CAN limited by the acceleration and length of the move
[00:59:09] <andypugh> And that should "just work"
[00:59:48] <JT-Hardinge> pengui1: some VERY important things to understand: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_User_Concepts.html
[00:59:55] <andypugh> That's what EMC does. If it stopped at every Z change, we wold have noticed
[01:00:22] <pengui1>  JT-Hardinge: i think velocity mode drives the motor at a commanded speed, again subject to accel and velocity limits
[01:00:47] <muale> any way for autozero tool for my Z axis ?
[01:00:55] <JT-Hardinge> velocity mode and other modes only drive the motors what the trajectory planner tells it to do
[01:01:47] <JT-Hardinge> the mode you use to drive your steppers has no relation to the commanded speed
[01:02:05] <andypugh> Yes. the "A" in "HAL" is "Abstraction" The trajectory planner has no idea what you are doing with the signals it sends out.
[01:02:19] <JT-Hardinge> exactly
[01:02:59] <pengui1> then, which is the difference between velocity and position mode?
[01:03:23] <pengui1> i think velocity mode have instantaneous acceleration
[01:04:17] <andypugh> So, if you wire axis.0.position-cmd to stepgen.0.velocity-cmd (and nothing stops you doing that) then G1 X10 will set the motor velocity to 10, and it will stay at 10 until you do G1 X0. You can do that, but it is probably not what you want.
[01:04:31] <JT-Hardinge> velocity is usually a +- 10vdc signal with an encoder feedback and position is generate the steps to arrive as planned if possible
[01:04:53] <jlmjvm> i tried velocity mode earlier this week,never could get the pid set
[01:05:14] <JT-Hardinge> andypugh: no, the feedback tells what the signal needs to be
[01:05:49] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: In a sensible setup, yes.
[01:05:57] <JT-Hardinge> if the encoder feedback is on track don't change the velocity signal if it is behind increase it etc
[01:06:09] <JT-Hardinge> in any velocity mode setup
[01:06:56] <andypugh> No. You can simply setp stepgen.0.velocity-cmd 10 and it will run indefinitely. No feedback, no closed loop
[01:07:26] <pengui1> jlmjvm: please, tell me what do you do
[01:07:29] <JT-Hardinge> yes, if you want a cooling fan or something
[01:08:36] <andypugh> Exactly, lets not get confused between the velocity-mode stepgens and the servo loops that use them.
[01:09:25] <jlmjvm> pengui1:im running steppers with encoders in position mode,working on homing to index
[01:10:00] <andypugh> jlmjvm: Yeah, that ought to "Just work" I thought.
[01:10:18] <JT-Hardinge> only if you program it to "just work"
[01:10:24] <andypugh> But it seems not.
[01:10:42] <pengui1> jlmjvm: i mean the velocity mode that you use
[01:11:06] <pengui1> the HAL configuration, or anything
[01:11:29] <jlmjvm> i havent been able to do velocity yet,im using position
[01:11:49] <jlmjvm> will paste my setup
[01:11:55] <pengui1> thanks ;)
[01:12:27] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: The docs seem to suggest that it should just be an ini-file setting, but there was discussion here a few days back suggesting that index-enable needs to be able to zero the stepgen internal position (it can't) for stepper index-homing to work
[01:13:13] <JT-Hardinge> index enable is just an ini-setting but for servos not steppers notice it is in the servo related items AFAIK
[01:13:38] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.com/0aVVMGAs
[01:13:55] <JT-Hardinge> outside of that your wandering into uncharted area and need to understand more than I do about it LOL
[01:15:19] <andypugh> I reckon you could spoof it with a sample-and hold added on to the stepgen position output before it goes to the axis feedback pin. But that would take work, hardware I don't have and time I don't have (nor inclination, in honesty)
[01:18:15] <andypugh> pengui1: Have you looked at axis.0.velocity in Halscope while rastering with Z as the intensity?
[01:18:55] <pengui1> andy, i tried the Z approach as you say, but the laser pause a little in each position
[01:19:09] <andypugh> How do you know it pauses?
[01:19:40] <andypugh> Do you hear a change in the stepper noise? Can you see it change in Halscope?
[01:19:44] <pengui1> because the speed is slower in the areas with different gray levels
[01:19:55] <pengui1> i think the right question is how change the trajectory planner under velocity mode
[01:20:05] <JT-Hardinge> pengui1: what G61/64 code do you use?
[01:20:19] <JT-Hardinge> I assume a bunch of short moves???
[01:20:56] <pengui1> yes
[01:21:24] <JT-Hardinge> did you read this yet? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_User_Concepts.html
[01:21:44] <pengui1> which part? :p
[01:22:06] <JT-Hardinge> it's only one page long :P
[01:22:16] <pengui1> many letters
[01:22:51] <JT-Hardinge> yes, but you must understand it
[01:23:15] <andypugh> See, I think that EMC ought to do constant speed. You are assuming that the different grey levels is due to speed changes (and it it very likely that it is) but can you hear the steppers change tone? Can you see a speed change in Halscope? You could spend a long time playing with EMC configs and then find that the laser has a dicky controller.
[01:23:36] <JT-Hardinge> andypugh: you might want to read that link too
[01:24:20] <pengui1> this is interesting: Having short moves in your G Code can cause your machine to slow down and speed up for the longer moves if the "naive cam detector" is not employed with G64 Pn.
[01:24:36] <JT-Hardinge> YEA! your on your way now
[01:24:37] <pengui1> G64 Pn.... mmm
[01:24:57] <JT-Hardinge> I can not run my plasma without setting G64 Pn properly
[01:26:17] <pengui1> G64 is in the begining of the gcode, right?
[01:26:27] <pengui1> and P means??'
[01:27:03] <andypugh> pengui1: are you Agustin Cruz? If so, yann suggested G64 on may 16th. (on the mailing list). I assume you had already tried that.
[01:27:04] <JT-Hardinge> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64:
[01:27:26] <pengui1> ahh..ok
[01:27:40] <jlmjvm> http://www.machmotion.com/Drives-and-Motors-TECO-Servo-Drives-&-Mot/c47_53/p153/Teco-30-in/LB-Class-AC-Servo-Motor-&-Drive/product_info.html
[01:27:54] <pengui1> G64 without P works better?
[01:28:01] <jlmjvm> this is on my wishlist
[01:28:46] <JT-Hardinge> I'd rather use a Panasonic motor and drive
[01:28:55] <andypugh> jlmjvm: Cheaper: http://www.dmm-tech.com/Pricing.html
[01:29:12] <JT-Hardinge> better? what does better mean to you?
[01:30:00] <pengui1> without little pauses
[01:30:01] <JT-Hardinge> G64 does what it does and G64Pn does something different what you need is to be determined by you
[01:30:16] <pengui1> i mean for short moves
[01:30:25] <JT-Hardinge> if you want the naive cam detector you have to use G64Pn
[01:30:48] <JT-Hardinge> on my plasma cutter I use G64Pn
[01:30:52] <andypugh> And you fiddle with n until it works...
[01:31:09] <JT-Hardinge> otherwise it shakes like vibrator stopping and starting
[01:31:17] <pengui1> yes.. i have a vibrator
[01:31:23] <pengui1> this is the word
[01:31:27] <JT-Hardinge> you define n to be what you can tolerate
[01:31:35] <jlmjvm> andypugh:thanks for the link
[01:31:37] <JT-Hardinge> vibrations = not good
[01:32:16] <pengui1> ok, i will try G64 Pn and convert a vibrator in something smoother
[01:34:24] <pengui1> thanks JT-Hardinge ;)
[01:34:31] <JT-Hardinge> your welcome
[01:35:33] <pengui1> andypugh, yes, i'm
[01:35:52] <pengui1> maybe i tried with "n" too low
[01:36:42] <pengui1> i will try with n=1000
[01:36:46] <pengui1> :)
[01:41:42] <andypugh> I hope it works. Let us know.
[01:44:04] <muale> any way for autozero tool for my Z axis ?
[01:44:48] <andypugh> Probably..,
[01:45:00] <JT-Hardinge> with a touch off device?
[01:45:02] <andypugh> What hardware do you have?
[01:47:00] <muale> yes
[01:47:36] <muale> router
[01:47:50] <muale> sorry for my english
[01:48:08] <Jymmm> muale: your english is fine =)
[01:48:20] <JT-Hardinge> do you have a probe to set the tools?
[01:48:36] <andypugh> You can, for example, set up G-code fragements to run when a pin goes high (or low, or both). So a touch-off plate linked to a (physical) pin linked to a (virtual) dio pin could run a G43.1 G-code fragment.
[01:48:44] <muale> no,i like to make one
[01:49:20] <JT-Hardinge> I think there is some examples on the wiki of that
[01:49:47] <muale> ok thank you
[01:55:23] <pengui1> JT-Hardinge: G64 Pn goes in every line, or only in the begining?
[01:55:53] <andypugh> Only at the beginning, I am fairly sure
[01:57:32] <JT-Hardinge> only at the start and where you want it to be different Pn setting
[01:59:28] <andypugh> muale: You might find that you can do something clever with an MDI_COMMAND line in your INI file Something like MDI_COMMAND G43.1 Z0 in the [HALUI] section. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_halui.html#sub:MDI
[02:00:55] <JT-Hardinge> say goodnight Gracie
[02:01:02] <andypugh> That line will create a hal pin that you can link to the touch-off plate, then any time the tool touches the plate, instant zero.. (I think, in theory, some development mightbe required)
[02:02:24] <andypugh> Time for me to log too.
[02:06:11] <pengui1> look:
[02:06:11] <pengui1> http://imagebin.org/98987
[02:06:26] <pengui1> look the speed.... it's a vibrator
[02:06:34] <pengui1> i'm using G64 Pn
[02:10:35] <pengui1> eureka!... i'm thinking replace stepgen by a square signal generator
[02:30:29] <Marcus_Septim> is H264 there?
[02:30:36] <WalterN> hey Marcus_Septim
[02:30:40] <Marcus_Septim> ^^
[02:38:00] <Marcus_Septim> Are there any European Machinists here?
[02:58:19] <jepler> jepler has changed the topic to: EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.4.1 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[02:58:58] <tom3p> those teco motors are 4000 rpm at full torque, iirc most pana/yask/automationdriect derate starting at 3000. is this sales puff?
[03:20:03] <tom3p> re: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_User_Concepts.html how does the feedrate vary thru a single biarc? how close is the actual motion to the programmed path?
[03:38:09] <Endeavour> Hello
[03:40:25] <tom3p> hello
[04:22:28] <Guest463> who is awake?
[04:25:10] <Guest463> bed time...
[04:27:35] <morfic> Guest463: the helpful ones are all asleep :)
[05:12:03] <fragalot> * fragalot is awake now >.> too early for a sunday
[05:13:37] <morfic> a gentoo user
[05:13:44] <fragalot> indeed
[05:14:52] <fragalot> is there anyone in here that's used a sable 2015?
[05:41:25] <DiMiTRi_DiMiTRi> * DiMiTRi_DiMiTRi is just passing by
[05:51:47] <Jymmm> HOLY SHIT http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/05/29/vos.tx.amazing.crash.WFAA?hpt=C2
[05:55:17] <cliff> nice reactive time by the car on the other side!
[05:55:31] <cliff> *reaction
[05:58:25] <fragalot> insane how a little car can push such a big rig aside
[06:00:04] <Jymmm> no doubt
[06:01:01] <Endeavour> Anyone here have some recommendations for a good stepper driver?
[06:01:21] <Jymmm> Gecko 540
[06:03:05] <Jymmm> Endeavour: http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469
[06:03:33] <Endeavour> Pricey.
[06:04:01] <fragalot> you said good, not cheap
[06:04:06] <Jymmm> That's 4 axis, and well worth the time, frustration, and asrin you would have to buy otherwise
[06:04:14] <DiMiTRi_DiMiTRi> it looks expensive too :)
[06:04:25] <Endeavour> fragalot: Indeed I did.
[06:04:38] <Jymmm> AND it has a built in breakout already
[06:04:55] <Endeavour> I was told by pfred1 that the A3997 chips I was looking at were pretty bad.
[06:05:00] <Jymmm> mid band compensation
[06:05:15] <Jymmm> opto isolated
[06:05:34] <fragalot> Endeavour: tbh, if you want the least issues, get a gecko. if not that one, go for a cheaper one, aslong as it has what you need.
[06:05:51] <fragalot> actually
[06:05:57] <fragalot> the one Jymmm linked, IS the cheapest I think o.O
[06:06:34] <Jymmm> Not the cheapest, you can buy individual, but it comes with a breakout board already too.
[06:06:49] <Jymmm> and you have a spare drive if yu only need 3 axis
[06:06:55] <fragalot> Jymmm: if you buy the individual boards and breakout board, it's more expensive :/
[06:07:32] <Jymmm> And there are no good breakout boards out there that I'm aware of.
[06:08:01] <cliff> I bought one of these cheapo (overseas) 4 axis board.. it works and for the price you can buy 2 for when one breaks.. :)
[06:08:08] <cliff> http://cgi.ebay.ca/4-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-TA8435H-Controller_W0QQitemZ330437010367QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cef94a3bf
[06:08:27] <fragalot> * fragalot has just ordered a Sable 2015 and is hoping he won't be dissapointed too much
[06:09:38] <fragalot> cliff: shiny
[06:10:25] <fragalot> I've also just ordered 30 limit switches for 10usd lol
[06:10:56] <Endeavour> cliff: I've seen those. Not sure what problems I'd be looking at if I used something along those lines instead of the more expensive alternatives.
[06:11:39] <fragalot> Endeavour: the expensive alternatives will have less jitter, better accuracy wrt microstepping, and will run cooler in most cases
[06:11:42] <cliff> They are definatly cheap.... I would go with the gecko over that any day. But for testing and hobby use it works fine for me...
[06:12:08] <Jymmm> cliff: That board is a POS.... only does 24V@2.5A
[06:12:39] <Endeavour> Hm
[06:12:39] <fragalot> Jymmm: and it nneeds a 5A psu
[06:12:40] <fragalot> :P
[06:12:52] <fragalot> so good luck driving 4 steppers at 2.5A
[06:13:02] <cliff> Yep.... the one i got was 32 at 3.5... like I said cheap.
[06:13:13] <Jymmm> You get what you pay for.
[06:13:27] <fragalot> tbf, depending on the machine you have, that could suffice
[06:14:02] <fragalot> like for the sable 2015 I just bought, using a gecko on there would be kindof a waste, with the low power steppers and M10 lead screw it uses :/
[06:14:03] <Jymmm> Maybe, but I have a 2.5HP spindle, I need a lil more than 24V
[06:14:09] <Jymmm> to push it
[06:14:51] <Endeavour> Is the performance difference really huge?
[06:14:59] <Jymmm> YES!
[06:15:05] <Endeavour> I'll be using Acme leadscrews and belts for my drives.
[06:15:13] <Endeavour> Not ball leadscrews or anything.
[06:15:16] <fragalot> Endeavour: yeah, there's a big difference
[06:15:26] <Jymmm> You usually spec out to 20-25X the motors rated voltage.
[06:15:26] <Endeavour> Wondering if my hardware might be a bigger point of contention
[06:15:33] <Jymmm> You usually spec out to 20-25X the motor's rated voltage.
[06:15:41] <fragalot> it's well worth spending a bit more on thr controller.
[06:16:06] <Endeavour> Hm, well, I'll keep it in mind.
[06:16:23] <fragalot> Jymmm: even if the motors' voltage is 24V ? :P
[06:16:35] <Endeavour> I'm working on a DIY Li'l CNC (www.diylilcnc.org), and also a 3D Printer design.
[06:16:57] <Jymmm> fragalot: If a motor is rated at 24V it's a high impedance, which you don't want
[06:17:07] <fragalot> Endeavour: I started on that one and never got past making the base :P
[06:17:16] <Endeavour> Why's that, fragalot ?
[06:17:24] <fragalot> Endeavour: lack of spare time to spend on it
[06:17:28] <Endeavour> Ah
[06:19:21] <fragalot> Endeavour: good luck with the build btw :)
[06:19:28] <Endeavour> We'll see how it goes.
[06:19:38] <Endeavour> Need to see if I can get anyone else in on it. Laser Cutting isn't cheap.
[06:20:03] <Endeavour> If I can get a few extra sets made it might become a bit more affordable.
[06:20:09] <fragalot> yeah, I cut the parts on a giant circular saw table
[06:21:32] <fragalot> Endeavour: another reason I stopped making mine is because if I added up all the costs of the parts i'd have to get, I was looking at nearly 1200 euro, and it's cheaper to just buy a pre-made one than it was to complete it :/
[06:21:42] <Endeavour> Ah
[06:21:49] <fragalot> (customs fees and shipping are a pain)
[08:31:06] <sealive> morning from Germany
[09:15:34] <fragalot> What's the best (read: easiest to use) gerber -> gcode tool?
[09:15:57] <celeron55> for linux, the right question is "what is the only"
[09:16:05] <fragalot> celeron55: I found several for linux
[09:16:13] <celeron55> links?
[09:16:20] <fragalot> forgot >.>
[09:16:28] <fragalot> atm i've got gcam installed
[09:16:44] <celeron55> i havent used any, but i know that pcb2gcode supposedly works
[09:17:01] <fragalot> I'll try that one in a bit then
[09:17:27] <fragalot> playing around with grayscale .png images first in anticipation of the delivery of my toy
[11:40:59] <morficcell> morficcell is now known as morficmobile
[12:38:52] <fragalot> how do I code a piece of recurring g-code ? (pattern)
[12:39:20] <Valen> functions or canned cycles are the search terms you want
[12:39:51] <fragalot> ty
[12:45:32] <johnt> fragalot, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#cha:O-Codes
[12:52:22] <fragalot> \o/
[14:36:14] <brownbaron> hello, anyone know the reliability of the blue chick model on buildyourcnc?
[14:37:17] <sealive> it is motly the same everyware
[14:47:03] <kanzure> brownbaron: link?
[14:49:06] <elmo40> http://buildyourcnc.com/DesktopCNCMachineKitblueChick.aspx
[14:52:24] <sealive> wodden mashine prezision oboc 0,1mm
[14:52:33] <sealive> above
[14:56:48] <archivist> .1mm /me takes that with a bukket of salt
[14:58:03] <sealive> linit is 5kg of force
[14:58:36] <sealive> or 50N
[14:59:00] <fragalot> I don't even believe the full aluminium machine I ordered can do 0.1mm
[15:03:22] <sealive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBMkT39LtEU
[15:03:31] <sealive> this is mine router
[15:04:04] <sealive> prezision lower then 0,01mm runs above 8hours in Necuron 700
[15:04:35] <fragalot> what are you cutting?
[15:05:06] <sealive> a 3hour test in Alu with 0,5mm dx,y and 2mm depth showd up at a speed of 100mm/min no step change
[15:05:23] <fragalot> neat - how much did it cost you?
[15:05:46] <sealive> more then 1000Euro
[15:05:55] <fragalot> money well spent
[15:05:57] <elmo40> and how much are you selling it for?
[15:06:07] <sealive> at alow size 155x155x55mm
[15:06:16] <sealive> 1450
[15:06:22] <sealive> elmo40:
[15:06:35] <fragalot> I've just put out 900 euro for a Sable 2015 w/ small part clamp, drills, etc.. no idea when it's going to get here..
[15:06:47] <sealive> including laptop case elektronik and cutter
[15:07:28] <fragalot> sealive: what spindle is that?
[15:07:41] <sealive> ok i bulid for the same a larger 600x600mm but only with 0,05mm prezize
[15:08:17] <sealive> fragalot: cutter or move treadment i'am from germany
[15:08:25] <fragalot> sealive: the cutter motor
[15:08:40] <sealive> it is a proxxon IB/E
[15:08:57] <sealive> in use for Necuron only
[15:09:10] <fragalot> sealive: and what are you using for the home switches? hall sensor or normal switches?
[15:09:15] <sealive> for alu i got a AirPressure turbine
[15:09:30] <fragalot> sealive: air powered spindle?
[15:09:37] <fragalot> isn't that incredibly wastefull? :/
[15:09:45] <sealive> normel prezichen switches
[15:10:27] <sealive> fragalot: but it cuts even trou metall 2316
[15:11:43] <sealive> fragalot: http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-38481-Professional-Rotary-Tool/dp/B001FWXEO6
[15:12:21] <sealive> this you can run 8hours ander full load without cooling
[15:13:14] <sealive> picture of a zigzag http://www.foengarage.de/cnc6.jpg
[15:13:23] <fragalot> how much does it weigh?
[15:13:45] <sealive> one moment i go downstärs
[15:15:25] <archivist> lots of people confuse resolution with precision and accuracy
[15:15:39] <fragalot> and repeatabillity
[15:15:50] <sealive> 450gramm fragalot
[15:15:53] <archivist> yup
[15:16:06] <fragalot> sealive: I expected it to be heavier o.O
[15:16:29] <sealive> fragalot: including 1meter cable
[15:16:45] <archivist> a dti and lean on it see how far it bends :)
[15:16:49] <sealive> just waight the hole system
[15:17:27] <fragalot> supposedly the spindle that comes with the machine I ordered weighs 1.4kg
[15:18:06] <fragalot> i'm not sure what the quality is going to be of the whole thing :/ (Kosoku HSM-90 spindle)
[15:18:57] <sealive> if you need this ok . i do not
[15:19:19] <fragalot> sealive: something tells me that the proxxon is better than this one,.. won't know until I get it
[15:19:21] <sealive> i work in silikon so thats far enoph
[15:20:22] <sealive> i used this in business to sharpen Diament harden steeel for years and it work and workd
[15:21:53] <fragalot> sealive: the spindle is relatively powerfull, spec-wise, but the machine uses nema 17 stepper motors 4.4kg/cm so i'm not expecting to mill aluminium at a decent speed :P
[15:22:26] <fragalot> * fragalot wants it now :(
[15:22:55] <sealive> whatever you do is right
[15:23:21] <sealive> the new Heekscad is out also for Cutter compensation
[15:31:15] <johnt> if I want to install 8.04 as a virtual machine on this 10.04 machine what software am I looking for?
[15:31:32] <fragalot> virtualbox, vmware, xen..
[15:33:05] <johnt> thanks
[15:33:31] <fragalot> johnt: don't expect it to behave in realtime though
[15:33:45] <johnt> I need it for the docs
[15:34:06] <johnt> I see that I have X.Org X server -- VMware display driver installed all ready
[15:36:41] <johnt> :/ google is not helping me much trying to figure out where to start
[15:37:11] <brownbaron> kanzure: did you check out that link from elmo40?
[15:37:19] <fragalot> johnt: install virtualbox, it's the easiest to use
[15:37:33] <johnt> thanks
[15:39:47] <brownbaron> johnt: i just installed virtualbox on windows and mac. they really are easy and quick to setup.
[15:40:11] <brownbaron> have an ubuntu image i swap from host to host, depending.
[15:40:54] <fragalot> btw, EMC2 latency test.. what would be the max. latency for it to be useable
[15:41:08] <johnt> I think I'm installing it now lol
[15:42:08] <brownbaron> sorry about asking this twice, it seems like there are more people about. anyone have any luck with the bluechick cnc setup?
[15:42:08] <brownbaron> page:http://buildyourcnc.com/DesktopCNCMachineKitblueChick.aspx
[15:42:08] <brownbaron> some dudes setup: http://www.members.shaw.ca/nortontool/CNC_router
[15:44:01] <brownbaron> johnt: it sounds like your upgrading your install, is this the comp that is connected with your cnc?
[15:44:21] <johnt> no, this is a new computer
[15:44:42] <brownbaron> nice
[15:45:00] <johnt> I would not expect a whole lot from a wooden cnc machine
[15:45:14] <brownbaron> would you expect it to be accurate?
[15:45:18] <johnt> no
[15:45:28] <fragalot> depends on what you define 'accurate' as
[15:46:14] <johnt> it would be as accurate as me looking at a ruler without my glasses on I'd bet lol
[15:46:29] <brownbaron> id be carving wood parts mostly. the setup is about 1800 with router, and i have the pc. not sure about other options
[15:46:35] <fragalot> without my glasses I couldn't even stack 2 bricks
[15:46:36] <fragalot> >.<
[15:46:39] <brownbaron> johnt: lol, thats what i was afraid of
[15:47:16] <brownbaron> i guess there is a thing called 'joe's cnc' but that seems huge for my needs
[15:47:31] <fragalot> brownbaron: well if you're just going to cut wood, I'm assuming that it doesn't have to be accurate within 0.5mm or something like that?
[15:47:40] <brownbaron> what do you guys think would be good for breaking into it
[15:47:49] <brownbaron> nah, nothing that accurate
[15:48:22] <fragalot> if it doesn't need to be accurate, it's probably going to suffice for your needs.. the machine looks sturdy and well designed at a first glance
[15:48:34] <brownbaron> i was going to use it for things like speaker box part cutout, inlay carving, and that sort of thing. maybe some circuit board etch
[15:48:34] <fragalot> bear in mind that MDF really, REALLY is a sponge.
[15:48:51] <fragalot> circuit board etching needs to be rather accurate :/
[15:49:25] <brownbaron> fragalot: ive been reading about the absorption. seems avoided by a urithane
[15:49:59] <johnt> wow $1k for a bunch of wood parts with some aluminum angle and a few roller bearings and a couple of lovejoy couplings
[15:50:05] <brownbaron> fragalot: accurate enough, if it can cut out a line then it seems like it would be able to etch out the circuit
[15:50:42] <brownbaron> johnt: seems high. but if it gets the job done....and then there are alternatives
[15:50:56] <brownbaron> alternatives that seem a lot more ambiguous
[15:51:00] <fragalot> brownbaron: circuit boards have a lot of angled lines, round shapes, and a lot of pcb's have tracks that are 0.3mm wide. that's not a lot of margin for error
[15:52:32] <fragalot> and generally, you want the machine to drill the holes for you too, preferably, you'd want atleast 0.1mm repeatabillity
[15:53:39] <brownbaron> hmm, i sent the guy on cuildyourcnc an email late yesterday. wondering what he has to say
[15:55:11] <fragalot> brownbaron: make sure to ask how accurately you can align the axis' on it
[15:55:20] <fragalot> (and how accurately)
[15:55:44] <brownbaron> what sort of cnc do guys have/use?
[15:56:52] <johnt> bp series 1 with Anilam control, Hardinge HCNC with EMC, a plasma cutter (my design) with EMC
[15:56:55] <fragalot> i've worked with a lot of different quicktech mills, and a few hyundai lathes. I've just ordered a Sable 2015 for use at home.. no idea how good it's going to be
[15:57:33] <johnt> and a manual lathe and mill as well
[15:57:35] <fragalot> the quicktech mills are taiwanese, but they're so lush to do maintenance on compared to the hyundai's
[15:57:59] <fragalot> and recently played with a quicktech 8-axis lathe too
[15:58:02] <fragalot> it's <3
[15:59:37] <fragalot> and a puma 3000, 240 and lynx 220
[16:01:30] <brownbaron> man, quite the shops
[16:01:52] <fragalot> :) there are also a few 3D printers from uPrint
[16:02:05] <brownbaron> fragalot: hobbies or pro?
[16:02:07] <fragalot> er, dimension is the brand, uprint is the type
[16:02:18] <fragalot> brownbaron: that was pro
[16:02:25] <jlmjvm> johnt:are you the admin over the forum?
[16:02:41] <johnt> one of them
[16:02:46] <fragalot> only did that for 2 years before going back to uni & doing metalworking/prototyping as a hobby
[16:03:20] <jlmjvm> i like it,very helpful
[16:03:28] <johnt> thanks
[16:03:32] <johnt> brownbaron, http://cgi.ebay.com/Lagun-3516-Vertical-Machining-Center-/300431723927?cmd=ViewItem&pt=BI_Mills&hash=item45f3204d97
[16:03:35] <fragalot> prototyping beeing building one-off rigs.. latest project was a merry-go-round for 22 kids that you could set up by yourself in under 20 minutes
[16:04:05] <jlmjvm> what kinda bike is that?
[16:04:48] <brownbaron> johnt: so for less money, a better machine.
[16:05:06] <fragalot> johnt: shipping is going to be insane for that machine though
[16:05:11] <johnt> dunno if better cause you have to define that
[16:05:16] <johnt> yea
[16:05:24] <johnt> jlmjvm, my bike?
[16:05:28] <jlmjvm> yep
[16:05:35] <johnt> goldwing
[16:05:47] <johnt> 2009
[16:06:03] <brownbaron> johnt: that thing is major heavy
[16:06:11] <jlmjvm> cool,figured you were harley guy
[16:06:16] <fragalot> brownbaron: major sturdy too :P
[16:06:20] <johnt> my bike or the VMC?
[16:06:38] <johnt> I had one once but didn't like it much
[16:06:42] <brownbaron> VMC, and the bike. goldwings are built
[16:07:05] <brownbaron> the VMC looks a tad too extreme for space and all
[16:07:13] <johnt> yea the goldwing has some weight to it but it stops faster than a harley
[16:07:18] <brownbaron> plus the reserve isnt met yet.
[16:07:28] <johnt> and they can't hear you when you are passing them up lol
[16:07:43] <brownbaron> triumph bikes are nice
[16:07:53] <fragalot> brownbaron: yeah professional machines tend to take up a lot of space with the protective guards, but you can mill pretty much anything you like on them.
[16:08:09] <johnt> someone was telling me that triumph has a new bike out
[16:10:16] <johnt> here is the Hardinge just a little out of position yet http://cgi.ebay.com/Lagun-3516-Vertical-Machining-Center-/300431723927?cmd=ViewItem&pt=BI_Mills&hash=item45f3204d97
[16:10:42] <brownbaron> johnt: thats the same link
[16:10:43] <fragalot> I don't get the point of an auction 'reserve'
[16:10:50] <johnt> oh crap
[16:11:17] <johnt> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/hardinge02.jpg
[16:11:17] <brownbaron> reserve is so i can set it at a penny and not get scammed. worked on the nintendo ds systems i sold
[16:11:35] <jlmjvm> johnt:i have been reading the forum Re: homing & encoders,wanting to look at the gtom setup,do you have an email for him?
[16:11:49] <fragalot> brownbaron: so just set the starting bid to what you want for it?
[16:11:59] <johnt> from his profile you can send him an email
[16:12:18] <jlmjvm> didnt know that,lemmee check
[16:12:43] <johnt> it won't show his email but if he responds back then you will have it
[16:12:44] <brownbaron> fragalot: for things like a mill, yeah. setting it at the cost you would loke to get at least is ideal. pushing things like ds and etc, pander to a younger more fickle crowd
[16:13:11] <johnt> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/P1010019.jpg
[16:13:25] <johnt> on my trailer heading home
[16:13:36] <fragalot> brownbaron: but still. a reserve is pointless because they'll bid, see 'reserve not yet met' and either give up, or bid again until it finally gets there. why not just skip that stage and set starting bid wher eyou would otherwise set the reserve.
[16:13:46] <fragalot> it's the same, just less confusion and effort.
[16:15:04] <brownbaron> not a big fan of reserve. if your expect it to sell, then low price is good draw in. unsteady auctioneers use the reserve system
[16:15:05] <johnt> they hope you keep trying till you meet the reserve
[16:15:29] <fragalot> * fragalot refuses to bid on auctions that have a reserve on principle
[16:15:36] <brownbaron> johnt: that is a beast of a machine there
[16:15:59] <fragalot> that's a small machine :/
[16:16:09] <jlmjvm> johnt:finally found how to send him an email,thanks
[16:16:09] <fragalot> footprint-wise
[16:16:13] <brownbaron> fragalot: i stay away from them too. way to complicated unless it is something i know i want to pay money for.
[16:16:13] <johnt> yea, I have to expand my shop and move it over then get a proper doa VMC
[16:17:21] <fragalot> hm.
[16:17:26] <brownbaron> http://cgi.ebay.com/40-x-24-3D-cnc-router-engraving-machines-/160438376221?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255adf571d
[16:17:43] <fragalot> only computer I have here has a latency of 13000 :/ I wonder how it 'l perform
[16:18:50] <fragalot> (that has a parallel port)
[16:19:06] <brownbaron> i mean, that link is coming out of china
[16:19:15] <johnt> when you run the stepconf wizard and put the numbers in it tells you how fast you can run
[16:21:28] <johnt> I have a virtualbox setup how do I install 8.04 in it?
[16:23:06] <johnt> I think I see how nevermind
[16:23:17] <brownbaron> johnt: i mounted an image
[16:23:45] <brownbaron> in order to get the resolution set correctly yhou have to install the added toolset, certain package
[16:24:16] <jlmjvm> johnt:thanks,I sent him a message
[16:24:25] <johnt> np
[16:25:10] <jlmjvm> would love to get this homing to index problem resolved
[16:28:00] <brownbaron> fragalot: so why did you pick up the sable?
[16:32:41] <johnt> hmm 8.04 seems to be installing in a virtualbox
[16:34:32] <brownbaron> fragalot: reading this about the sable:
[16:34:33] <brownbaron> http://www.cnc-sable.nl/sable-2015-p-21.html
[16:34:33] <brownbaron> looks pretty sweet
[16:34:55] <brownbaron> johnt: let me look at what i installed. ill see if i can find the resolution problem that i ran into
[16:35:12] <fragalot> brownbaron: because it was affordable, fits on my desk, and the specs are what I was looking for
[16:35:51] <fragalot> brownbaron: however, lots of people seem to have issues with a misaligned X-table so the first hour or more will be getting the X-table aligned properly
[16:36:01] <fragalot> and fixing the backlash nuts
[16:36:44] <brownbaron> johnt: the fix to having a larger res than 800x600 was to install guest additions
[16:36:56] <johnt> ok, thanks
[16:37:47] <brownbaron> fragalot: i thought you would want o align the xtable anyhow. with shipping. not sure how bad 'misaligned' is
[16:37:53] <johnt> the sable looks nice
[16:38:04] <fragalot> brownbaron: 'ndeed
[16:38:06] <brownbaron> fragalot: in virtual machine 'ctrl f' goes full screen and out of it
[16:38:19] <brownbaron> johnt: that last thing on virtual
[16:38:20] <brownbaron> whoops
[16:38:24] <fragalot> fail
[16:38:32] <brownbaron> fragalot, that price is great for 500
[16:38:55] <fragalot> brownbaron: 890 including the electronics & spindle
[16:40:50] <fragalot> brownbaron: I'll let you know what it's like when it gets here (could take ages)
[16:41:18] <fragalot> it's close enough for me to drive over to pick it up, but the guy that's in charge of distribution there seems to be sloooooow
[16:41:52] <brownbaron> fragalot: from china or a local place. oh, local. nice
[16:41:52] <brownbaron> saw this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/200477827080?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ead68e008
[16:42:06] <brownbaron> fragalot, is your supplier state side?
[16:42:33] <fragalot> brownbaron: he's in the netherlands i'm in belgium
[16:42:54] <fragalot> brownbaron: on ebay, it's jus tthe system with steppers, but no spindle, controller, etc..
[16:43:18] <fragalot> though quite frankly, I expect the spindle to be so-so, but usable, and the controller to last about a day before going *Pfoof*
[16:43:18] <brownbaron> yeah, was just noticing the lack of hardware
[16:43:49] <fragalot> so i'm going to mod the controller to have larger capacitors which should already help a lot wrt heat
[16:44:07] <brownbaron> couldnt you just install a fan?
[16:44:32] <fragalot> yeah, but capacitors heating up to 50C is a bad sign anyway
[16:44:59] <brownbaron> heh, yah
[16:45:23] <brownbaron> seems like you could use that machine to mill out a bigger machine, the sable
[16:45:59] <brownbaron> maybe, the bed seems tiny
[16:46:01] <fragalot> it doesn't have a very large working surface :/
[16:46:39] <fragalot> if it can mill out name tags in copper, PCB's, and the odd aluminium piece, i'm happy.
[16:50:34] <brownbaron> the design looks solid. bet is is a pain to ship accross the atlantic
[16:50:48] <fragalot> yeah, heard someone say it was 450usd
[16:51:12] <brownbaron> man.
[16:51:21] <fragalot> and someone else said it was 60, which is probably more accurate, as that's what I paid to get a Sun Fire V60x shipped to here
[16:51:32] <brownbaron> what if i know a machine shop that can do the cuts for me.
[16:51:47] <brownbaron> that might be a bit cheaper
[16:52:07] <fragalot> and you get the satisfaction of doing it yourself
[16:52:23] <brownbaron> and a proper bed size
[16:55:03] <fragalot> yay lightening
[16:55:32] <fragalot> qcad is annoying o.O
[16:59:29] <brownbaron> fragalot: this is the joe cnc build
[16:59:30] <brownbaron> again, in particle board......but it can be done in other materials
[16:59:30] <brownbaron> http://www.joescnc.com/kitsplans.php
[17:00:55] <fragalot> if you've got access to a cnc shop you could make it in any material you want/can afford really
[17:01:15] <fragalot> but 100usd for *plans* :/ there are lots of free designs out there
[17:01:21] <fragalot> and some of which are beeing SOLD on ebay >.<
[17:01:31] <brownbaron> like this http://www.joescnc.com/gallery/albums/Joe%27s%20Hybrid%20Machines/DougO.jpg
[17:01:32] <brownbaron> i can get the 06 plans for free
[17:02:06] <brownbaron> there is a local shop up here in washington. i think they cut aluminum
[17:02:20] <fragalot> do they do one-off things though?
[17:02:43] <fragalot> the shop I used to work in didn't bother unless you ordered 200+ pieces (or 20+ if it was a large piece)
[17:03:16] <brownbaron> they do a lot of fabricating. there shop hours are i think 70 american per hour
[17:03:41] <fragalot> going to cost you quite a bit to get that machined then
[17:03:46] <brownbaron> they did a custom louge a while back. so they take single customers
[17:06:14] <brownbaron> hmm, pricey projects
[17:07:58] <brownbaron> forum with the plans for 2006: http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17279&page=16
[17:09:07] <fragalot> good luck finding something :)
[17:11:01] <brownbaron> yeah, it all depends on what i read and peformance reviews. joe's seems to have a following
[17:20:41] <fragalot> note to self, while using kicad, and wondering why shortcuts don't work.. make sure you're using the right keyboard layout.
[17:28:28] <sealive> the milling robot is taken place right now at the oilspill to cut the tube tommorow
[17:30:48] <brownbaron> in the gulf?
[17:33:17] <sealive> yes
[17:33:42] <sealive> ther is a saw on the end of the robotarm and a drill mill adapter
[17:34:27] <sealive> anbelivabel handling of the arms shown in the pictures
[17:36:44] <sealive> they put a cable to an hole incadibele!
[17:38:18] <brownbaron> that will be nice if they can get it to stop pumping
[17:39:27] <sealive> they did it worster then ever now ther is heavy oil coming out not the light brent red one ,DARK and Deadly
[17:46:07] <fragalot> I've seen a hexapod based milling robot somewhere once
[17:46:16] <fragalot> fairly pointless, but it looked awesome
[17:46:39] <brownbaron> this video is pretty sick:
[17:46:39] <brownbaron> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccS2W2O9CJY
[17:46:39] <brownbaron> joes cnc again
[17:47:26] <sealive> that happens sometimes if people mean they need this
[17:48:09] <sealive> or if you cell your mashine to somewone they thake your video for there own
[17:48:13] <fragalot> brownbaron: that's some incredibly ineffecient code if you ask me, lol
[17:48:18] <brownbaron> sealive: gulf of mexico is trashed. to many people of the US just dont care
[17:48:55] <brownbaron> fragalot: yeah, seems like he could have done a back and forth a lot better. but it seemed to go to the points on target
[17:49:06] <sealive> as the ammerikens al over the world living neer RAMSTEIN
[17:49:19] <fragalot> brownbaron: very likely just used cad/cam auto generated gcode
[17:49:31] <brownbaron> fragalot: if it gets it done
[17:49:52] <fragalot> brownbaron: i'm used to working in a production environement where things had to be optimised :P
[17:50:09] <sealive> brownbaron: letters with Heekscad no problem within seconds
[17:51:37] <brownbaron> looks like the build will run about 2k to get it set. not a bad compromise
[17:52:27] <sealive> take iso standart space and things will go perfect
[17:55:18] <brownbaron> sealive: iso stadard space?
[17:55:56] <fragalot> typo fail, both of you
[17:56:18] <brownbaron> s/stadard/standard/
[17:56:44] <sealive> brownbaron: the postprozessor
[17:57:44] <brownbaron> ah
[18:45:32] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[18:47:47] <fragalot> does anyone have a g-code subroutine to cut out a slot that's wider than the tool used, or will I havve to write my own subroutine for it
[18:48:24] <cradek> see useful-subroutines.ngc in the distribution
[18:48:35] <fragalot> cradek: that only runs around the contours
[18:48:47] <fragalot> I want something that mills out the inside too
[18:49:05] <cradek> maybe you could run it twice or three times?
[18:49:22] <fragalot> that works
[18:52:15] <jlmjvm> cradek:have you ever done a pid loop with a stepper?
[18:52:28] <cradek> no, because I know it won't work very well
[18:53:37] <jlmjvm> thats good to know,havent had any luck and dont wanna damage something
[18:54:12] <cradek> we used to have to control steppers with pid in EMC1 - good riddance
[18:54:44] <andypugh> trying "harder" with a stepper is no help, you see.
[18:55:09] <jlmjvm> only reason i was trying was to be able to home to index
[18:55:56] <andypugh> I wonder where I can get a 350mm strip of 0.4mm stainless shim from at 8pm on a sunday?
[18:56:46] <cradek> if not your own shop, probably nowhere
[18:57:37] <andypugh> jlmjvm: You could make your home signal a toggle(home-switch AND index-pulse). That ought to work.
[18:58:35] <andypugh> ie, you arrange HAL components such that the home-signal state can only change on the rising edge of the index.
[18:59:34] <andypugh> and cradek: that was my conclusion, short of larceny.
[18:59:56] <wendtmk> Howdy guys. Got a question on the Axis display. When Axis opens, the preview window shows the simulated run in the "P" perspective mode. Is there any way to open Axis, and have the preview window open in the "Y" perspective? I tried LATHE = 1 in my ini file, but that gives me a top down view, and takes away all the other perspective buttons.
[19:00:27] <cradek> wendtmk: nope, not without hacking AXIS
[19:00:39] <cradek> wendtmk: you can toggle among views with the "v" keyboard shortcut
[19:01:52] <wendtmk> Yeah, I knew you could toggle, but it's just as easy to click with the mouse. Any pointers as to what area I might poke around in the Axis code to be able to do this?
[19:02:31] <cradek> the part that deals with what view to pick on startup
[19:02:53] <wendtmk> ;-) I meant what files...
[19:02:59] <cradek> axis.py
[19:03:05] <wendtmk> Thanks!
[19:05:58] <jlmjvm> andypugh:is that something you could change if i pasted my config
[19:06:11] <alex_joni> http://www.netindex.com/
[19:06:51] <wendtmk> cradek: I have a /usr/bin/axis, but no axis.py. Is that the correct file?
[19:10:50] <johnt> johnt is now known as jthornton
[19:22:06] <fragalot> note to self
[19:22:14] <fragalot> don't send emc2 into an infinite while loop
[19:23:48] <alex_joni> just hit esc
[19:27:49] <Dave911> andypugh: Aluminum foil folded over a few times?
[19:28:04] <Dave911> bbl
[19:31:59] <brownbaron> fragalot: while (3==3){
[19:31:59] <brownbaron> x++;
[19:31:59] <brownbaron> x--;
[19:31:59] <brownbaron> }
[19:32:35] <fragalot> brownbaron: it was o101 while [#12 gt #13] ... without changing the value of either of those variables.
[19:32:38] <fragalot> :P
[19:35:44] <frallzor> hey hey
[19:37:09] <wendtmk> Howdy
[19:37:53] <frallzor> I just realized how PO I get at people using pirated software to make money
[19:38:53] <frallzor> one thing to use for personal use, but when ppl download $10000 cad-software etc etc and start a business, thats lame =)
[19:39:19] <johnt> johnt is now known as jthornton
[19:40:37] <wendtmk> Anybody know why Ctrl-Home wouldn't work when hitting Home on each individual axis works?
[19:40:59] <wendtmk> Whoops, EMC2.4.1
[19:41:25] <wendtmk> ini setting?
[19:41:43] <cradek> you need to define a homing sequence to do home all
[19:41:49] <cradek> see the homing docs
[19:42:27] <wendtmk> Thanks. Back to the books.
[19:49:51] <wendtmk> Cool. Homing sequence works!
[19:52:18] <wendtmk> One minor glitch though. I don't have a Y axis per se, only Axis_0 and Axis_2, so when the Home All button is hit, the X and Z home, but the Y doesn't. Is there a work around so that it will home a non-existent axis?
[19:53:44] <cradek> do you have an AXIS_1 in your ini?
[19:55:37] <wendtmk> cradek: No. When Mike G handcrafted my ini and hal file to work with the dual stepper setup on the X axis, I ended up with just those two Axis sections.
[19:56:43] <cradek> I don't think you can home an axis that isn't there. just so I understand what's going on, why do you want to do this?
[19:57:47] <wendtmk> Just exploring the functions of my machine and the software. Thought it would be nice to be able to hit one button and home all the axes, rather than just one at a time.
[19:58:10] <cradek> no, my question was why do you want to home an axis that doesn't exist? why do you care?
[19:58:20] <wendtmk> The Y axis shows up in the Axis display, and it needs to be homed before I can issue any MDI commands.
[19:58:55] <wendtmk> Non-existent on the machine, but there in Axis.
[19:58:55] <cradek> maybe your ini is wrong then - you shouldn't have to home an axis that doesn't exist before using MDI.
[19:59:06] <cradek> if you did have to do that, you'd have to home all of ABCUVW as well
[19:59:44] <wendtmk> If there is no Axis_1, why would the Y axis show up?
[20:00:05] <cradek> pastebin your ini please
[20:00:16] <wendtmk> Okay, stand by one.
[20:01:38] <wendtmk> cradek: http://pastebin.com/3MKrghby
[20:02:53] <cradek> #
[20:02:54] <cradek> COORDINATES = X Y Z
[20:02:58] <cradek> try changing to = X Z
[20:03:11] <Xavier_H> Hi
[20:03:22] <wendtmk> Okay, I'll give that a whirl
[20:04:15] <cradek> bbl
[20:04:50] <wendtmk> cradek: Yeah! That's the ticket! Thanks!
[20:04:53] <Xavier_H> I have a small problem about user messages. I would like display some variables (ex #1 ) into a message to the user interface. (MSG, Value = #1 ) does not work
[20:05:35] <Xavier_H> Do you have an idea to do that?
[20:07:09] <micges> try (DBG, Value = #1)
[20:10:34] <Xavier_H> doesn't seems to work... I think it will be printed on terminal, I'll check this
[20:11:02] <Xavier_H> It is that and work fine in terminal
[20:11:42] <Xavier_H> there is a solution to display this on axis?
[20:14:28] <micges> try (debug, ..._
[20:14:29] <micges> )
[20:14:42] <Xavier_H> ok thanks
[20:15:51] <Xavier_H> Thank you very much it seems to work
[20:15:56] <Xavier_H> :-)
[20:16:31] <micges> cool
[20:16:36] <Xavier_H> there is a way to display this number in interger values?
[20:16:53] <micges> I don't think so
[20:17:12] <Xavier_H> ok I doesn't matter
[20:17:32] <Xavier_H> thank you again
[20:17:38] <wendtmk> Can you pass it in as a variable?
[20:17:53] <Xavier_H> yes
[20:18:09] <Xavier_H> with "_"
[20:18:14] <wendtmk> Is your variable set as an integer or a string?
[20:18:53] <wendtmk> micges: when passing a variable in to a message, is it automagically converted to a string?
[20:19:12] <Xavier_H> my variable is #1 = 0 then in while loop #1 = #1 + 1
[20:19:14] <micges> Xavier_H: '_' sign is misspelled :)
[20:19:26] <Xavier_H> oupps
[20:19:27] <wendtmk> ;-)
[20:19:49] <Xavier_H> :-D
[20:20:05] <micges> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:Debugging-messages
[20:20:18] <wendtmk> This software is just so... so... literal!
[20:21:27] <Xavier_H> (debug, value = [#1 + 1]) does not work too
[20:21:59] <Xavier_H> it is not a problem, just intermediate variables
[20:22:18] <penguin> hi, anyone can confirm if this is ok?
[20:22:18] <penguin> http://pastebin.com/0ZpNv7Zd
[20:22:37] <penguin> i'm changing from position mode to velocity mode
[20:22:44] <wendtmk> micges: It says " with the addition of special handling for parameters." but doesn't really say what the special handling is.
[20:23:07] <micges> handling means evaluating them
[20:23:45] <wendtmk> Okay. How does it evaluate them?
[20:25:06] <Xavier_H> "Inside the above types of comments, sequences like #123 are replaced by the value of the parameter 123. Sequences like #<named parameter> are replaced by the value of the named parameter. Remember that named parameters will hInside the above types of comments, sequences like #123 are replaced by the value of the parameter 123. Sequences like #<named parameter> are replaced by the value of the named parameter. Remember that named param
[20:25:06] <Xavier_H> eters will have white space removed from them. So, #<named parameter> is the same as #<namedparameter>. "ave white space removed from them. So, #<named parameter> is the same as #<namedparameter>.
[20:25:45] <Xavier_H> "
[20:25:46] <wendtmk> Ah, okay. The light bulb is coming on.
[20:26:34] <wendtmk> So, if the parameter is a string, it will be evaluated as a string, and if a number, evaluated as a number.
[20:27:08] <Xavier_H> parameters/variables can be string?!
[20:27:52] <Xavier_H> I don't thing so
[20:32:50] <penguin> confirm if this is ok: http://pastebin.com/0ZpNv7Zd
[20:33:05] <penguin> (please)
[20:33:08] <penguin> i'm changing from position mode to velocity mode
[20:34:48] <wendtmk> Okay, I understand what the "parameters" are now. I'm still learning about this stuff. ;-)
[20:35:25] <micges> penguin: change motor-vel-cmd to joint-vel-cmd, rest is ok
[20:36:56] <alex_joni> penguin: it won't help you much though
[20:37:13] <alex_joni> running a stepgen in velocity mode won't make the motor spin at a certain speed
[20:37:37] <alex_joni> velocity mode means you don't feed the stepgen with positions it needs to go to, but with velocities
[20:37:39] <penguin> no?
[20:37:48] <alex_joni> but emc2 still interprets g-code
[20:38:04] <alex_joni> the g-code is the code that says go to position x0, then x100
[20:38:19] <alex_joni> this position change is derived and turned into a velocity
[20:38:30] <alex_joni> which gets fed to the velocity-mode stepgen
[20:38:32] <penguin> alex, if i enter G1X100 in velocity mode, what happen?
[20:38:38] <alex_joni> which will mode the motor
[20:38:54] <alex_joni> penguin: if the system is tuned correctly the same thing will happen
[20:39:05] <alex_joni> no matter if the stepgen is in velocity or in position more
[20:39:24] <penguin> i'm interested in get constant speed
[20:39:31] <penguin> i think velocity mode can be the solution
[20:39:38] <alex_joni> no, it's not
[20:40:15] <penguin> i want to go from X0 to X100 to X200 to X300 and keep moving at say F100, but the way i have it, it stops at X100, then goes to X200 and stop ten goes to X300 and stops
[20:40:34] <alex_joni> if you program G1 X100 F200
[20:40:36] <alex_joni> X200
[20:40:38] <alex_joni> X400
[20:40:42] <alex_joni> it won't stop
[20:40:54] <penguin> really??
[20:41:03] <penguin> in position mode?
[20:41:04] <alex_joni> if you add some other g-code inbetween then it will stop
[20:41:10] <alex_joni> penguin: yes, really
[20:42:20] <penguin> you say, i must not write: G1 X100 F20
[20:42:23] <frallzor> * frallzor got some old shelves from a relative, nice solid beech!
[20:42:25] <penguin> G1 X200
[20:42:27] <penguin> G1 X400
[20:42:33] <alex_joni> penguin: that is ok
[20:42:38] <penguin> i must delete "G1"
[20:42:43] <alex_joni> but you can leave the G1 out
[20:42:46] <alex_joni> doesn't matter
[20:42:53] <alex_joni> G1 x100 F100
[20:42:57] <alex_joni> G1 X200
[20:43:00] <alex_joni> is the same as
[20:43:05] <alex_joni> G1 x100 F100
[20:43:07] <alex_joni> x200
[20:43:22] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:should i be running a low pass filter with my encoder config
[20:43:43] <alex_joni> but if you program a z move or a Mxx or whatever inbetween, then you will get the speed change
[20:43:46] <penguin> ok, then F100 set constant speed and the movement will not stop
[20:43:57] <alex_joni> and you'll get the speed change even if you are in velocity mode
[20:44:16] <penguin> and if i set a digital output?
[20:44:26] <alex_joni> then it will drop speed
[20:44:27] <penguin> the speed still be constant?
[20:44:30] <alex_joni> no
[20:45:44] <alex_joni> it won't be constant , not even if the stepgen is in velocity mode
[20:46:04] <alex_joni> the _only_ way to make it work is as I described it a while ago
[20:46:11] <penguin> HAL?
[20:46:15] <alex_joni> have a component which runs in realtime
[20:46:22] <alex_joni> it gets the contents of a line
[20:46:29] <alex_joni> including start and stop positions
[20:46:41] <alex_joni> then you program a linear move from start to stop position
[20:46:48] <alex_joni> and you enable the component
[20:47:22] <alex_joni> while emc2 is moving from start to stop, the component will compare current position with the internal buffer of the line
[20:47:30] <alex_joni> and set the laser to on/off based on that
[20:47:48] <penguin> can we develop the component together?
[20:47:53] <penguin> :)
[20:47:58] <alex_joni> penguin: I think it's already developed
[20:48:07] <alex_joni> there was a link on the mailing list
[20:48:15] <penguin> graster?
[20:48:35] <alex_joni> probably so
[20:48:53] <penguin> mmmm...no one have a clue how to use it
[20:49:58] <alex_joni> looks like it does exactly what I described
[20:49:59] <alex_joni> http://github.com/jedediah/graster/blob/master/hal/mask.hal
[20:51:58] <penguin> i need to download all the files?
[20:52:14] <andypugh> Dave911: The folded tinfoil won't work, I want the shim steel as a way cover for my re-engineered Z-axis. Picss at http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4ljcmPx8UvQHJYD9ZoF-Ow?feat=directlink and following.
[20:52:45] <alex_joni> penguin: when in doubt, try to email the author
[20:52:55] <penguin> i tried, twice
[20:52:58] <penguin> :s
[20:53:07] <alex_joni> from the looks of it, it seems that you need to just run the hal file, and feed the data through streamer
[20:53:12] <alex_joni> you don't run emc2 at all
[20:54:03] <penguin> if i don't run emc, how i enter the gcodes?
[20:55:33] <alex_joni> penguin: you don't
[20:55:44] <alex_joni> you enter a picture (PNG) into graster
[20:55:46] <alex_joni> and the size
[20:55:54] <penguin> ahhh....
[20:56:21] <alex_joni> http://github.com/jedediah/graster/blob/master/graster.rb
[20:56:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[20:57:34] <penguin> thanks alex!
[20:57:59] <andypugh> jlmjvm: I wouldn't have a way to test the homing config I suggested.
[21:08:04] <andypugh> jlmjvm: I think this hal component is what you need though. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/flipflop.9.html You can connect the home switch to the .data pin and the index pulse from the encoder to .clk. Then the output pin will only change state at the encoder index point. That should work as long as your home-search is slow enough not to miss the index pulse.
[21:28:00] <jlmjvm> andypugh:i can test it if you want to make the changes
[21:34:02] <andypugh> jlmjvm: You should just need to add a flipflop function to your HAL file (with one instance for each axis) and then wiring the limit switches through them.
[21:47:45] <andypugh> axis.N.home state can take a number of values (I have seen 18, 19 and 0). Are they listed anywhere?
[21:48:13] <cradek> andypugh: see homing.c in the source tree
[21:49:23] <andypugh> That sounds like effort ;-)
[21:50:48] <micges> I need help, I have analog signal that must be sended by optic fibre
[21:51:36] <micges> what type of signal will be most stable for the EMF noise
[21:51:39] <micges> ?
[21:53:50] <micges> now I'm using tl494in to generate PWM, but chip is floating due to noise
[21:57:59] <andypugh> Optical fibre should be immune to EMI, shouldn't it?
[21:59:19] <micges> yes but signal generated to send by fibre is floating
[22:00:44] <andypugh> floating?
[22:02:53] <micges> should generate pwm with fill based on voltage, that fill should be stable but it's changing about 5% at 20~30Hz
[22:03:45] <micges> board is isolated (filtered) all knowed ways
[22:04:30] <andypugh> it isn't aliasing in the convertor chip is it?
[22:05:00] <micges> aliasing?
[22:05:33] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliasing
[22:08:16] <micges> andypugh: hmm will check it, thanks
[22:09:30] <andypugh> I am thinking more in terms of a quanisation error than true aliasing, I think
[22:11:03] <micges> I've noticed earler some problems tuning base frequency of board, maybe some sort of that problem
[22:15:29] <micges> good night all
[22:27:19] <frallzor> anyone happen to have 3d model of an old coke bottle? =)
[22:30:05] <andypugh> making the model might be tchnically illegal. as they have an odd sort of copyright on the shape.
[22:30:40] <frallzor> well its being sold everywhere so I guess its not illegal =)
[22:30:46] <frallzor> just cant find a free version
[22:31:53] <andypugh> I can't imagine it being terribly hard to model.
[22:32:25] <frallzor> its pretty much surfacy
[22:32:41] <frallzor> im all solid, too much of work to do that in there
[22:32:45] <andypugh> More than just a revolve?
[22:33:00] <frallzor> have you seen the old bottles? =)
[22:33:07] <andypugh> No.
[22:33:52] <frallzor> the old glass ones
[22:36:17] <frallzor> maybe not that old, but these http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1099/687675-lg_coca_cola_classic_bottle_super.jpg
[22:38:39] <andypugh> Yeah, looks like a pain. The scallops could be done with a cut along a curve, then a radial pattern though.
[22:53:18] <frallzor> im down to a simple shape in solid now atleast
[22:57:08] <Dave911> frallzor: I consumed many cokes in bottles just like that :-) Coke still sells those bottles now and then I believe... with Coke of course
[22:57:36] <frallzor> actually not half bad this attempt
[22:57:43] <frallzor> not the classic "ribs" but still ok
[22:59:04] <frallzor> im going to try and make a coke platter or something
[22:59:08] <frallzor> and then paint it :P
[23:14:00] <frallzor> if this mofo turns out as I want ill be epic!
[23:25:01] <atmega> pull some line art in to vcarvepro?
[23:26:19] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/MaewKNWuP/ pretty decent?
[23:27:50] <atmega> you should buy me a copy of vcarvepro
[23:28:11] <frallzor> I dont want to!
[23:30:26] <frallzor> imagine that render painted retor style!
[23:30:29] <frallzor> yummy