#emc | Logs for 2010-05-26

[11:35:32] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[11:36:27] <piasdom> i set #2 = 20, but it goes 21.6
[11:36:42] <elmo40> depends on the initial value?
[11:36:47] <piasdom> it follows my other feeds
[11:37:17] <SWPadnos> can you pastebin the code as it is now?
[11:37:24] <piasdom> k
[11:38:43] <piasdom> http://pastebin.com/eW6i0GHH
[11:39:18] <SWPadnos> I see F300 and F100
[11:40:17] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[11:40:37] <piasdom> k
[11:42:03] <elmo40> no Z moves?
[11:44:02] <piasdom> cutting pocket, .1 deep each pass
[11:44:50] <piasdom> the z moves are in the main, not the sub
[11:46:25] <morficmobile> SWPadnos: now i found something saying the encoder is absolute, a AB/Z is not absolute, it's just direction (A/B) and index (Z), right?
[11:46:38] <SWPadnos> correct
[11:46:52] <SWPadnos> but the drive synthesizes the A/B/Z signals for you
[11:47:03] <SWPadnos> so you can use it like a "normal" encoder for now
[11:47:45] <morficmobile> i like "normal"
[11:47:48] <SWPadnos> and eventually (when we add support for absolute encoders to emc2, and specific support for Yaskawa to hostmot2) you'll be able to use the absolute position values
[11:48:14] <morficmobile> oh, nice, i suppose i'll be testing that when it becomes available
[11:48:25] <SWPadnos> they have a weird system for getting the initial position, but then they act like incremental encoders
[11:48:51] <SWPadnos> sure, you can do that :)
[11:49:13] <morficmobile> hey, if i avoid mobos+cpus (amd and intel) that do automagic overclocking, seems like a good thing, no?
[11:49:45] <SWPadnos> unless you can turn it off in the BIOS, yeah, I'd avoid anything that messes with clock speed behind your back
[11:50:18] <morficmobile> 46% of 10.4 iso done
[12:01:01] <piasdom> sorry, i pasted wrong, this is the file as is; http://pastebin.com/JQk9bEec
[12:02:42] <piasdom> when it gets to line 131, it goes max(21.6). should be 2
[12:03:01] <SWPadnos> g1 f300 x.05 y.05
[12:03:08] <SWPadnos> does tyhat give you a clue? :)
[12:03:18] <SWPadnos> f300 is higher than f20
[12:03:21] <SWPadnos> or f2
[12:03:29] <piasdom> i was running the file(w/o mill) and it works untill there
[12:03:37] <SWPadnos> and line 137 will attempt f100
[12:03:59] <piasdom> i thought you said i didn't need the []
[12:04:13] <SWPadnos> you don't, but 300 is still more than 2
[12:04:34] <SWPadnos> I see that you're calling o200 with some parameters (100, 200, 300), but you aren't using them
[12:04:40] <piasdom> i'm a d......, i know f100 will go 100 :)
[12:04:53] <SWPadnos> yep, and f300 will try to go 300 ;)
[12:05:15] <piasdom> so i need this f[200]
[12:05:26] <SWPadnos> no, that will go 200
[12:05:37] <SWPadnos> are you trying to pass the speed to the subroutine?
[12:05:44] <piasdom> yes
[12:06:16] <piasdom> line 178 is the first time i call []
[12:06:22] <SWPadnos> ok, then you need a #, since subroutine parameters are variables #1 through #30
[12:06:51] <piasdom> so f#100
[12:06:53] <SWPadnos> ok, here's what line 178 does
[12:07:21] <SWPadnos> it calls o200, and puts the value 100 into #1, 200 into #2, and 300 into #3
[12:07:36] <SWPadnos> those are #1-#3 in the subroutine, it doesn't change the ones you set at the beginning
[12:08:02] <SWPadnos> 100, 200, and 300 are numbers, not variable names
[12:08:33] <piasdom> but aren't #1 [100] my #1 at the top
[12:08:47] <SWPadnos> uh
[12:09:05] <SWPadnos> the number 100 has nothing to do with the #1 you set at the top
[12:09:32] <SWPadnos> that's why I suggested using #101, #102, and #103 at the top, to reduce confusion :)
[12:09:34] <piasdom> and i thought [100] [200] [300] #1 #2 #3
[12:09:37] <piasdom> o :)
[12:09:38] <SWPadnos> nope
[12:09:51] <JT-Dev> from the manual Because "1 2 3" is parsed as the number 123, the parameters must be enclosed in square brackets.
[12:09:53] <SWPadnos> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#r3_1
[12:09:53] <JT-Dev> The following calls a subroutine with 3 arguments:
[12:09:54] <JT-Dev> O200 call [1] [2] [3]
[12:10:14] <SWPadnos> that explains why you need [] around the numbers
[12:10:21] <SWPadnos> in the subroutine call
[12:10:24] <piasdom> i got thatb but how do i use them in the sub?
[12:10:46] <SWPadnos> the numbers you pass to the subroutine are called #1, #2, #3 ... through #30 (I think)
[12:10:54] <JT-Dev> yep
[12:10:56] <SWPadnos> so after the call on line 178
[12:11:09] <SWPadnos> in the subroutine, #1 is 100, #2 is 200, and #3 is 300
[12:11:52] <piasdom> but how does [100] get f20
[12:12:08] <SWPadnos> if you changed the call to this: "o200 call [#2]", then #1 in the subroutine would be 8 (since that's what #2 is set to at the beginning)
[12:12:28] <SWPadnos> there is something else limiting the feed to 20
[12:12:34] <SWPadnos> like TRAJ or an axis limit
[12:13:53] <piasdom> so o200 call [#1] [#2] [#3] the use f#1 in the sub for the feed?
[12:14:26] <piasdom> the*then
[12:14:46] <SWPadnos> if #1 (in the main program) is what you want the feed rate to be in the subroutine, then yes
[12:15:09] <SWPadnos> look up variable scoping on the net to see why you will go insane if you do that though :)
[12:16:40] <piasdom> ok Thanks :)
[12:17:38] <atmega> can you read the current F and then restore it at the end?
[12:18:08] <SWPadnos> no
[12:24:57] <SWPadnos> piasdom, remember that you can also use named parameters, like so:
[12:25:07] <SWPadnos> (replacing lines 5 through 8)
[12:25:15] <SWPadnos> #<feed> = 20
[12:25:25] <SWPadnos> #<ffeed> = 8
[12:25:37] <SWPadnos> #<startfeed> = 2
[12:25:38] <piasdom> SWPadnos: i seen that in the docs
[12:25:58] <SWPadnos> if you do that, there will be much less confusion when calling subroutines
[12:26:06] <SWPadnos> o200 call [#<ffeed>]
[12:26:16] <piasdom> i see
[12:26:25] <piasdom> i'll rewrite
[12:26:28] <SWPadnos> that will still be named "#1" in the subroutine
[12:26:55] <SWPadnos> or you can use the actual named variables in the subroutine instead of passing them in when you do the call
[12:27:09] <piasdom> so instead of f<ffeed> it's f#1 ?
[12:27:32] <piasdom> in the subroutine
[12:27:52] <SWPadnos> those are two different things, both of which are valid
[12:28:14] <SWPadnos> inside the subroutine, the named parameters are still "visible"
[12:28:43] <SWPadnos> so f#<ffeed> will use the value in the global named parameter ffeed
[12:29:02] <SWPadnos> f#1 will use the first value that was passed to the subroutine
[12:29:11] <piasdom> cool
[12:29:13] <SWPadnos> *not* the global parameter #1
[12:29:23] <atmega> heh
[12:29:28] <piasdom> got it(i think)
[12:29:31] <SWPadnos> since #1-#30 are replaced with the values you pass when calling the subroutine
[12:30:00] <piasdom> yes, nothing to do with what i have at top
[12:30:06] <SWPadnos> exactly
[12:30:52] <SWPadnos> the nice thing is, you can make a subroutine that can be used for both roughing and finishing - it does the same motions, but you can do them at different feed rates
[12:32:32] <herron> piasdom, for an example using the various naming methods see http://www.collection.archivist.info/verge_wheel2.ngc
[12:33:15] <herron> and the excess bracketry needed :((
[12:35:29] <piasdom> herron: Thanks, hader then i thought. but i'll try
[12:36:58] <herron> I name my globals so the call line is reasonably understandable I hope, the fact you end up with #1 etc in the subroutine is bad and confusing imo
[12:37:36] <herron> gcode syntax needs a fix or six
[12:39:34] <morficmobile> SWPadnos: what does "medium inertia" mean to me? seems to me i would want "the lower the better?", the yaskawa are "medium inertia", like the AD ones.
[12:39:52] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure exactly
[12:40:05] <SWPadnos> I bet you can't get 5kW motors that are low inertia :)
[12:40:58] <morficmobile> probably not, guess servos have matured in the last 15 yrs, since this one too is far shorter than the old fanuc servos
[12:42:16] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:here is my latest attempt http://pastebin.com/h7Brjfaj
[12:43:20] <morficmobile> SWPadnos: i guess what i mean to say, makes me feel better about the "short" AD servos
[12:43:29] <jlmjvm> its trying to move,but have no idea what to use for the pid values
[12:43:36] <morficmobile> too bad they don't go high enough
[12:51:49] <JT-Dev> morficmobile: lots of info on this page http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Technical/Catalog/Motion_Control/Servo_Systems
[12:52:47] <SWPadnos> morficmobile, actually, long thin motors have lower inertia than short fat ones, all else being equal
[12:53:33] <SWPadnos> mass an a high radius has higher rotational inertia than mass at a low radius
[12:54:08] <SWPadnos> s/an/at/
[12:54:12] <awallin_> if you couple the motor to a ballscrew, how much of the overall rotational inertia is in the motor?
[12:54:20] <morficmobile> you mean if the mass is the same? yeah, makes sense
[12:54:57] <SWPadnos> usually not much, but in theory you get the best load matching when the ratio is close to 1:1 (I think)
[12:55:22] <SWPadnos> another reason to use a reduction drive - increases torque, but also matches inertia
[12:55:39] <SWPadnos> but don't listen to me, I'm not a mechanical engineer - I only think I know what I think I heard :)
[12:58:54] <herron> there is some inertia fun and some multipliers to take into account with geared but /me hated the maths
[12:59:19] <SWPadnos> yeah, I know some of the formulas, but not what they mean in the real world
[13:00:40] <Dave911> You don't want the load to motor inertia to exceed 10:1.
[13:01:00] <Dave911> Otherwise things get unstable
[13:01:40] <Dave911> Gearboxes are used to correct inertia problems
[13:03:34] <Dave911> I use a servo sizing program usually to make sure that things are ok ...
[13:03:52] <herron> its so the motor does not see the inertia of the moving mass, it sees only gear ratio of it
[13:04:35] <Dave911> There is a really good free one made by Copperhill technologies
[13:05:42] <Dave911> Yes, the motor sees the "reflected" inertia instead of the actual inertia... but it gets trickier since the gearbox also has inertia.. it all adds ups
[13:06:00] <Dave911> Add a coupling and that adds inertia.. etc
[13:07:18] <morficmobile> our lathe was direct, so we make the Mori direct too
[13:07:27] <morficmobile> we will see what happens
[13:07:37] <salvarane> hello
[13:08:59] <Dave911> Probably safe ... If the motor rotor size is roughly the same you are probably ok.. if dramatically different you might have an issue...
[13:09:17] <morficmobile> looks like i get to do over the file i work on, CAM crashes when it opens the file now
[13:09:47] <morficmobile> short large diam motor vs long small diameter motor
[13:09:49] <Dave911> Thats not fun..
[13:10:01] <morficmobile> no, it isn't
[13:10:18] <salvarane> I build emc2-2.3.5 with kernel patch rtai for this kernel linux with gcc (Gentoo 4.3.4 p1.1, pie-10.1.5) 4.3.4 and rtai with gcc 3.4.6
[13:10:54] <salvarane> the command for build are user@ $ ./configure && make && make setuid && make install
[13:11:38] <salvarane> emc2 run only as root but not as user normal
[13:12:33] <cradek> salvarane: perhaps memlock problem: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI#Memlock_Size
[13:13:12] <cradek> salvarane: or else udev permissions: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI#Udev
[13:13:37] <salvarane> thanks , I go to read
[13:13:38] <cradek> salvarane: if my guesses are wrong, pastebin your error output
[13:13:49] <elmo40> sorry to butt in... but an interesting bit of software: http://www.mockflow.com/
[13:14:12] <salvarane> ok pastebin http://pastebin.com/rmg7FnRb
[13:14:34] <cradek> HAL: ERROR: could not open shared memory
[13:14:42] <cradek> yes, I bet one of my guesses is right
[13:15:07] <salvarane> ok, I go to read http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI#Udev
[13:17:48] <SWPadnos> don't you need "sudo make setuid"?
[13:21:13] <elmo40> would this be a useful controller? http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/CKMX068.htm
[13:22:01] <salvarane> no in my system there isn't set command sudo but su command $ su ... passwd && make setuid && make install
[13:22:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[13:23:17] <SWPadnos> elmo40, useful for what?
[13:23:27] <salvarane> I change the files and restart the system to between little
[13:24:02] <elmo40> SWPadnos: My semi-CNC lathe (no threading capabilities)
[13:24:09] <SWPadnos> spindle?
[13:24:23] <elmo40> yes
[13:24:39] <SWPadnos> it could be useful then, though the 30V limit seems pretty low
[13:25:03] <SWPadnos> and you'd have to work a little to control the speed with emc2
[13:27:45] <morficmobile> atioglxx.dll is the one crashing :/ my CAM
[13:28:36] <piasdom> "variable scoping" AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW :)
[13:29:09] <piasdom> so now i have this http://pastebin.com/2JRFp5J5 but it bogs down when it hits the first o200
[13:32:33] <salvarane> emc not run as normal user, the error is http://pastebin.com/1vH0rY8s and the emc_print file is http://pastebin.com/9aEYSKxs
[13:34:26] <SWPadnos> what does uname -a give you?
[13:36:11] <salvarane> Linux localhost #1 SMP Wed May 26 11:39:20 CEST 2010 i686 AMD Turion(tm) 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-56 AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[13:36:58] <SWPadnos> ok
[13:37:08] <SWPadnos> and your hard/soft memlock limits?
[13:39:31] <salvarane> * hard memlock 8192
[13:39:49] <SWPadnos> that should be 20480 or more, I think
[13:40:56] <salvarane> ulimit -s
[13:41:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm. the wiki page only shows 8192, but I'm pretty sure the requirement has gone up
[13:41:02] <salvarane> 8192
[13:41:57] <elmo40> SWPadnos: was looking at a installing a digital potentiometer thingy instead of the manual pots that are there. shouldn't be too difficult, eh?
[13:42:06] <salvarane> ok I must set hard memlock at 20480
[13:42:25] <salvarane> and soflimits ?
[13:42:34] <SWPadnos> salvarane, might as well set that the same
[13:42:40] <salvarane> ok
[13:42:58] <SWPadnos> elmo40, note that the full supply voltage may be applied across that variable resistor
[13:43:17] <SWPadnos> so a digital pot would need to have quite a voltage tolerance to work there
[13:43:38] <atmega> put a gear on the pot, have a stepper turn it
[13:44:07] <elmo40> atmega: sweet :P
[13:45:42] <SWPadnos> there are a few that have 30V+ supply options
[13:46:57] <atmega> or the pot could just be controlling a 0-10 input?
[13:47:17] <SWPadnos> schematic: http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/MX068-doc.pdf
[13:47:33] <SWPadnos> it's the VR between R12 and R13, connected to IC1/2
[13:47:43] <salvarane> in this moment the ulimit -a as user is http://pastebin.com/wVbE7gSy and as admin is http://pastebin.com/4wRvrr5g I have change as " * soft memlock 20480 " and " * hard memlock 20480" in file /etc/security/limits.conf
[13:47:49] <salvarane> now reboot
[13:47:54] <SWPadnos> ok
[13:49:36] <elmo40> SWPadnos: since I don't have a 30A motor I can crank up the voltage to 30V. No way to go higher then 30V?
[13:49:44] <elmo40> I was thinking of a scooter motor ;)
[13:49:52] <SWPadnos> their specs say 30V/50A
[13:50:26] <atmega> my scooter motor is 1/2HP, 24vdc
[13:50:49] <SWPadnos> cradek, in those pastebins from salvarane, isn't the memlock limit set to 64k? (the -l line)
[13:54:06] <salvarane> thanks emc2 is running as normal user
[13:54:14] <SWPadnos> great
[13:54:47] <SWPadnos> I wasn't sure how to read the ulimit output, glad I don't have to now :)
[13:54:50] <cradek> salvarane: which problem was it?
[13:57:09] <salvarane> the proble were not set the string " * soft memlock 20480" and " * hard memlock 20480 " in the file /etc/security/limits.conf
[13:57:30] <cradek> great, glad it is working now.
[13:58:16] <salvarane> thanks get going , now I going to test the program with my cnc , Bay
[13:59:21] <elmo40> http://maketecheasier.com/8-useful-and-interesting-bash-prompts/2009/09/04
[14:00:56] <cradek> elmo40: I use a variant of #1 where my prompt is % if the command was successful and ! if not
[14:01:27] <cradek> I think complicated (and especially multiline) prompts are a bit irritating
[14:01:31] <elmo40> interesting
[14:01:49] <atmega> I think pretty much anything more than 10ish chars is annoying and irritating
[14:02:44] <cradek> for example, what are the chances I'll forget my own username and need to refer to the prompt to remember it? :-)
[14:03:04] <atmega> heh.. that's one of the things I do like... user@host
[14:03:09] <strum> that's for windows users
[14:03:33] <strum> no it has it's uses
[14:03:36] <atmega> you've never run a command on the wrong box?
[14:03:47] <strum> i often have a range of user accounts for differnet purposes
[14:03:50] <atmega> or been su'ed and forgot?
[14:03:58] <celeron55> the name of the computer is useful at least
[14:04:13] <cradek> su prompt is #
[14:04:23] <atmega> su root prompt is #
[14:17:16] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:did you get a chance to look at my paste earlier
[14:17:33] <SWPadnos> no
[14:19:53] <jlmjvm> if you get a chance to look at it i would appreciate it
[14:21:32] <SWPadnos> OK, I'm looking at it. what doesn't work?
[14:22:24] <jlmjvm> it actually trys to move now,but i suspect my pid values are way off
[14:22:50] <SWPadnos> that seems likely :)
[14:24:35] <SWPadnos> you may want to start with FF1=1 and everything else 0. I think that's the theoretical setup for velocity mode control
[14:24:57] <jlmjvm> k,will give it a shot
[14:25:49] <SWPadnos> but I really don't know where it will end up
[14:26:28] <grommit> I have a contact on my estop switch that is tied to a GPIO pin of my mesa cards and defined as an input. When I hit the estop button I the IO pin changes state as expected. What do I tie this to in HAL so that emc see this indication and knows that I have hit the estop?
[14:29:29] <atmega> look for the appropriate section in the halui docs
[14:32:04] <grommit> oops, lost my connection
[14:32:08] <atmega> I'd show you my line, but it is for a pport
[14:32:22] <grommit> Is that in the HAL documentation?
[14:32:30] <atmega> yeah
[14:33:53] <atmega> somthing like net estop input.0.wtf => halui.estop.activate
[14:37:45] <cradek> that advice is incorrect. estop is hooked to iocontrol, not halui
[14:38:03] <atmega> heh... well, it is something like that.
[14:38:51] <atmega> or depending on your point of view, completely unlike that.
[14:40:01] <grommit> I have these lines in my .hal file: net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out AND net estop-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[14:40:52] <grommit> but when I comment these out AXIS won't let me click the estop button. It doesn't seem to be tied to my input from the switch itself yet...
[14:41:12] <cradek> I like to use a ladder rung like demo-sim-cl has
[14:41:14] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man1/iocontrol.1.html
[14:42:37] <grommit> thanks
[14:43:06] <piasdom> ok...i can't see where i get the value of #<feed> from o200 call [whatever] [nothing] . if not from the top, Where?
[14:43:19] <atmega> is there a stepconfig like thing for mesa IO?
[14:43:32] <JT-Work> pncconf
[14:44:26] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_pncconf.html
[14:44:43] <atmega> someone was supposed to order some 7i43's for me, but they haven't shown up. I've gotten over my desire to have dedicated home/limit switches for each axis though
[14:45:01] <Dave_911> JT-Work: Did you get your Pokeys device yet?
[14:45:11] <JT-Work> Dave_911: yes
[14:45:21] <Dave_911> Try it out yet?
[14:45:32] <JT-Work> yes I have
[14:45:45] <Dave_911> What say you ... ;-)
[14:46:03] <JT-Work> :)
[14:46:16] <Dave_911> What do you think about it?
[14:46:51] <atmega> can you cut aluminum/brass with a Sherline 5500 mill?
[14:46:53] <JT-Work> I used hal_input to get the analog and digital inputs directly into EMC pretty slick
[14:47:30] <Dave_911> So as good as you thought it might be? Any issues you can see so far?
[14:48:56] <JT-Work> actually better than I thought it would be I guess... no issues other than like a joypad it has to be plugged in for EMC to work once you add it to the hal file
[14:49:51] <Dave_911> Oh ... so if EMC can't find it ... it doesn't run.. didn't realize that ...
[14:50:07] <Dave_911> I guess if you hardwire it - no problem..
[14:50:27] <JT-Work> it's a usb interface
[14:50:33] <Dave_911> Is the update time quick?
[14:50:34] <JT-Work> just like a joypad
[14:51:00] <JT-Work> well it is user not real time but my fingers are not as fast as real time either
[14:51:23] <Dave_911> Same with mine!
[14:51:48] <Dave_911> But plenty fast for an override knob ?
[14:52:31] <Dave_911> Hard to beat that for the cost for Analog ins ..
[14:52:52] <Dave_911> Congrats on your machine startup - the engine cover one
[14:53:07] <JT-Work> yea, it will work good for the override knobs and for a gaggle of buttons like start, stop, pause, resume, etc.
[14:53:27] <JT-Work> thanks, we have one more to do this week :)
[14:53:52] <piasdom> atmega; i have the sherline 5400 and that is all i cut
[14:53:56] <Dave_911> Don't you love it when customers come to you with their mistakes and say "please" fix this! One more .. nice.
[14:54:53] <Dave_911> You and I have a lot in common.. but I am usually the sub to the machine builder .... I'd like to start doing entire machines though..
[14:55:43] <Dave_911> Unfortunately the economic reality is that biz is still pretty tough up here .. I am too close to Michigan! A lot of shops are going under.
[14:55:59] <strum> this is just the beginning
[14:56:07] <strum> it's gonna get a whole lot worse yet
[14:56:20] <Dave_911> I have less and less competition each year... but then there seems to be less and less biz also!
[14:56:44] <Dave_911> strum: Are you close to the economic disaster called Michigan also?
[14:56:53] <strum> it's global dood
[14:56:57] <JT-Work> I love it when a customer calls up and tells me I forgot to send them an invoice
[14:57:06] <strum> though here in aus i am well away from the worst of it
[14:57:31] <strum> would not want to be in the mid-west US that's for sure
[14:57:44] <Dave_911> If you want to rent an industrial building .... there are thousands available in Michigan.. seriously
[14:58:04] <strum> i hear you can buy houese in detroit for almost nothing
[14:58:07] <strum> houses
[14:58:09] <Dave_911> JT-Work... I have one customer that does that .... really nice when they do that
[14:58:33] <JT-Work> yea this one is nice to work for
[14:58:38] <Dave_911> I think that Detroit has plans to tear down 3000 houses next year .. abandoned
[14:58:57] <strum> yeah wouldn't want people getting free housing or anytrhing would they
[14:59:10] <strum> upset the whole exploitative system
[14:59:22] <bricofoy> Dave911, strum, it's nearly the same in France :/
[14:59:38] <Dave_911> You can literally buy a house in Detroit that looks pretty good on the outside for $2-3000. They have some listed on the web even!
[14:59:55] <strum> if they used the TARP money to pay off the mortgaes instead of giving it to the banks they could have paid all those mortgages off
[15:00:03] <strum> criminal scum
[15:00:09] <strum> jews for the most part
[15:00:12] <cradek> Dave_911: too bad some junkie ripped all the wiring and copper pipe out of it
[15:00:28] <bricofoy> not as hard as in Detroit here, but it slowly take the same direction
[15:00:43] <strum> yep europe is heading the same way
[15:00:54] <Dave_911> cradek: Some are in pretty good shape - really.. And then some are ready for the dozer
[15:01:19] <bricofoy> cradek, in France, the railroad power lines ares stolen ! not only the copper from abandonned houses !
[15:01:53] <Dave_911> We gotta start making stuff again.. giving all the manufacturing to China was a critical mistake
[15:02:00] <strum> not a mistake
[15:02:09] <strum> it has worked exactly as planned
[15:02:15] <strum> http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rosenthal.html
[15:02:24] <bricofoy> not a mistake, a financial miscalculation
[15:02:27] <strum> http://iamthewitness.com/
[15:02:34] <strum> not a miscaculation
[15:02:35] <bricofoy> well, on the long-term, I mean
[15:02:45] <strum> a caculated plan to destroy the US
[15:02:51] <strum> calculated
[15:03:03] <bricofoy> not only the US :-o
[15:03:07] <strum> there are no accidents in politcs
[15:03:33] <bricofoy> europe is on the same way, and the greek problem does'nt help a lot...
[15:03:48] <strum> the greek problem was created by wall street
[15:04:04] <strum> http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/
[15:04:36] <strum> Here's to the Greeks. They know what to do when corporations pillage and loot their country. They know what to do when Goldman Sachs and international bankers collude with their power elite to falsify economic data and then make billions betting that the Greek economy will collapse. They know what to do when they are told their pensions, benefits and jobs have to be cut to pay corporate banks, whic
[15:04:36] <strum> h screwed them in the first place. Call a general strike. Riot. Shut down the city centers. Toss the bastards out. Do not be afraid of the language of class warfare-the rich versus the poor, the oligarchs versus the citizens, the capitalists versus the proletariat. The Greeks, unlike most of us, get it.
[15:04:57] <cradek> strum: I hope none of your crazy bits rub off on the rest of us, yikes
[15:06:15] <Dave_911> If you want to find stuff to reinforce your viewpoint on the web... you can do that ... whether it is true or not ..
[15:06:42] <atmega> the net is full of whackjobs of all viewpoints
[15:07:39] <strum> cradek just take the blue pill and go back to dreamland
[15:07:43] <strum> you moron
[15:07:47] <cradek> haha
[15:07:52] <Dave_911> I think there are some basic problems in the US that are not being addressed ... most of the population is more concerned about what kind of beer their will drink tonight than what the future holds .... but it has always been like that
[15:07:52] <cradek> let's talk about emc :-)
[15:08:01] <piasdom> thanks
[15:08:06] <strum> it has not always been like that
[15:10:16] <bricofoy> no sure, all was always better before :o
[15:10:48] <strum> we have been under assuault for well over 100 years
[15:10:50] <atmega> no
[15:10:56] <strum> our culture has been perverted
[15:11:20] <strum> america use to produce great men
[15:11:34] <bricofoy> it' funny to see in very ancient books this kind of ideas that it was "better before" is as old as the world :)
[15:11:35] <JT-Work> I think the Indians said the same thing
[15:11:40] <cradek> heh, "our culture"
[15:11:47] <atmega> great is relative and temporal
[15:11:58] <strum> "We Jews have put issue upon issue to the American people. Then we promote both sides of the issue as confusion reigns. With their eye's fixed on the issues, they fail to see who is behind every scene. We Jews toy with the American public as a cat toys with a mouse."
[15:12:47] <bricofoy> and ?
[15:13:10] <strum> They mix in your society which is plenty corrupt so while the Jews are benefiting themselves the the dumb goy doesn't realize that these Jews with non-Jew names are Jews.
[15:13:46] <atmega> heh
[15:15:03] <cradek> when you say "our culture" and "your society" who exactly do you think you're talking to here? You are assuming (or simply not thinking about) a lot.
[15:15:25] <strum> stfu moron
[15:15:37] <strum> are you a jew?
[15:15:47] <atmega> strum: perhaps you are in the wrong channle for this discussion.
[15:15:48] <strum> i'm only quoting what jews themselves say
[15:15:57] <cradek> yes perhaps
[15:16:08] <strum> i didn't start it
[15:16:42] <strum> "I don't care: what you do — as I said, few have the guts to speak out. We would all have better understanding between each other — Jews and gentiles — if we spoke out more openly. Your people don't have guts. We establish your thinking — we even place within you a 'guilt complex' making you afraid to criticize Jewry openly."
[15:16:48] <pcw_home> Doesn't belong here (or anywhere IMHO)
[15:16:59] <strum> tough
[15:17:15] <strum> this is your ealry morning wake up call
[15:17:21] <Dave_911> strum: Neither did I... but you went down the "all Jews are bad path" do us a favor and change the channel...
[15:17:30] <strum> i never said that
[15:17:32] <cradek> strum: kindly move on to another channel where your subject is more on topic
[15:17:42] <strum> make me
[15:17:55] <atmega> heh
[15:17:59] <cradek> well actually I can, but it'd be better if I didn't have to
[15:18:09] <strum> whatever
[15:18:15] <strum> it doesn't change the truth
[15:18:22] <atmega> I think your mommy is calling you.
[15:18:37] <strum> yeah cradek, your mummy is calling you
[15:18:46] <Dave_911> strum: If you want to be able to use this forum for EMC type info .. I suggest that you listen ..
[15:19:22] <strum> dave i suggest you listen
[15:19:32] <strum> if you care about what uis happening in your country
[15:19:44] <Dave_911> If you simply don't care ..
[15:20:11] <SWPadnos> what each of us cares about is irrelevant to the question of whether this discussion is on topic or not
[15:20:12] <strum> no i don't care to reamin willfully ignorant
[15:20:16] <strum> remain
[15:20:35] <SWPadnos> so you are free to have your opinion, and even to discuss it in a considerate and courteous manner
[15:20:49] <SWPadnos> however, this is not the appropriate place for a discussion of this type
[15:21:03] <Dave_911> strum: I live about 8 miles from the home of the US leader of the Klu Klux Klan. You don't need tell me about white supremacy.. Please take it elsewhere
[15:21:16] <strum> rofl
[15:21:27] <SWPadnos> so you have been asked kindly to stop this discussion here (with nothing implied as to whether you are correct, or whether you may continue the discussion elsewhere)
[15:21:32] <strum> when did i say anything aobut white surpemacy?
[15:21:44] <strum> i like black people
[15:22:04] <atmega> they don't corrupt your culture?
[15:22:10] <SWPadnos> so let's try to keep on the topic of emc and machine control please
[15:22:14] <SWPadnos> ... everyone
[15:22:22] <atmega> sorry :)
[15:22:24] <cradek> atmega: Dave_911: (you are feeding the troll)
[15:22:27] <strum> and if you look into it you will find that the KKK is run by jews
[15:22:38] <cradek> (see?)
[15:23:25] <Dave_911> Yeah .. you are right .. I'm done ...
[15:24:31] <Dave_911> Nice ...
[15:24:41] <Dave_911> Sorry for feeding the troll ....
[15:24:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni calls Iron Man to the rescue
[15:24:55] <pcw_home> Ahh someone found a can of troll-be-gone! Thanks Jymmm
[15:25:04] <Jymmm> If everyone could just drop it completely and move on, it would be appreciated.
[15:25:05] <SWPadnos> well, just troll-be-quiet actually
[15:25:12] <SWPadnos> indeed
[15:25:12] <alex_joni> http://failblog.org/2010/05/26/epic-fail-photos-ice-removal-fail/
[15:25:21] <Dave_911> Jymmm is my hero!
[15:25:31] <Jymmm> Dave_911: Please, just drop it
[15:25:37] <SWPadnos> let's not get carried away here :)
[15:25:41] <Dave_911> NP
[15:29:42] <bricofoy> well done Jymmm :)
[15:31:50] <alex_joni> http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Rare-CRAY-1-GATE-CPU-Board-2-planes-LAST-ONE-/140408191311
[15:31:57] <Dave_911> JT-Work and I were conversing about a Pokeys device before things went off the tracks .. it has a number of Analog Ins, digital ins and outs that could be useful for panel interface etc ...
[15:31:58] <alex_joni> wheee.. CRAY1 anyone?
[15:32:29] <pcw_home> Needs a few more bits to make a Cray
[15:32:30] <Dave_911> Has anyone had any issues with using USB with an extender cable in an industrial environment?
[15:32:54] <atmega> Dave: lots
[15:33:03] <Dave_911> I think the specs for USB are 8 feet max but I have one repeater type cable that is good for 25+ feet
[15:33:15] <Dave_911> lots of problems?
[15:33:17] <atmega> yes
[15:33:28] <Dave_911> What happens?
[15:33:33] <atmega> passive one suck. Some of the powered ones are ok
[15:33:48] <atmega> you can daisychain 3 hubs I think
[15:33:59] <SWPadnos> USB cable spec is 5 meters
[15:34:20] <Dave_911> 5 meters... longer than I thought..
[15:34:31] <SWPadnos> you can use a powered hub, and my bet is that the powered extender cables are actually 1-port hubs
[15:34:31] <atmega> you can do 5m + hub + 5m
[15:34:49] <alex_joni> pcw_home: http://www.futurebots.com/crayb.jpg
[15:34:51] <atmega> the blackbox ones are actually 4-port hubs with one connector
[15:34:56] <SWPadnos> note that USB connectors are actually really easy to unplug
[15:35:14] <SWPadnos> sure, whatever the cheap chip is, with one connector exposed :)
[15:35:29] <Dave_911> The powered cable I have which is about 25 feet long was not cheapbut it has a clear jacket on it and it is obviously shielded ...
[15:36:26] <atmega> I ended up moving the computers closer to teh devices, but that was partially a wiring problem
[15:36:41] <Dave_911> Is there a good self powered repeater cable that you guys would recommend - that is not really expensive ??
[15:37:08] <atmega> check iogear.com
[15:37:15] <pcw_home> alex_joni: Pretty!
[15:37:16] <Dave_911> I need about 25 feet to get from my PC to the operator panel..
[15:37:58] <Dave_911> I've bought stuff from IOGear before... they have a lot of stuff, but I am sure that not all of it is great/good.
[15:38:21] <atmega> yeah, I've gotten some really flakey usb/serial things from them
[15:38:26] <Dave_911> Their FTDI related USB converters are good
[15:38:43] <atmega> these were prolifics
[15:39:14] <atmega> I have a lot of older painful serial stuff that works well with ftdi, not at all with prolific
[15:39:49] <Dave_911> I have heard not so great things about prolifics also ..... that is why I am looking for recommendations .. quality seems to vary wildly
[15:40:17] <Dave_911> That is what I have found also ... the FTDI converters seem to be reliable ....
[15:40:45] <atmega> for newish stuff that is less picky about rs232 levels, prolifics work fine... for old stuff that wants real +/- 12, the ftdi works better
[15:40:54] <cradek> Dave_911: I tried a couple random cables until I found one that seemed to work reliably for my touchscreen - sorry I don't have more specific information to help
[15:41:11] <cradek> and my run was much less than 25'
[15:41:16] <pcw_home> we've been thinking about a Pokey like gizmo but RS-422 and realtime
[15:41:17] <pcw_home> (needs FPGA smart serial 2.5 Mbps so no help unless you have our stuff)
[15:41:19] <pcw_home> should be able to go a good 50 feet or so
[15:42:28] <atmega> I'm using high speed USB photo-multiplier-tube bases that seem to be pretty picky
[15:42:53] <Dave_911> I think that would sell Peter ... RS422 is quite noise immune
[15:44:11] <Dave_911> USB photo multiplier .... what are those used for??
[15:44:37] <atmega> gamma spectroscopy
[15:44:49] <atmega> nuclear measurements
[15:45:27] <atmega> they make ethernet ones now, I should try some of them.
[15:45:34] <Dave_911> Interesting that they have USB tube devices .. but that makes sense ...
[15:45:59] <atmega> all-in-one tube base, generates the high voltage from USB power
[15:46:51] <atmega> http://www.ortec-online.com/Solutions/multichannel-analyzers.aspx#
[15:46:57] <cradek> yep - I know what a photomultiplier is, and I know what USB is, and I never expected the two to be combined in any product
[15:47:18] <pcw_home> Thats pretty exotic I guess PMs are one of the last tube holdouts
[15:47:37] <cradek> pcw_home: VFD displays? CRTs?
[15:47:43] <cradek> we have a lot of tube technology around still
[15:47:46] <atmega> me either, we have huge, very expensive HV power supplies for some systems... these get ~1kV from usb
[15:47:54] <pcw_home> CRT? whats that?
[15:48:05] <cradek> you're inside mine
[15:48:24] <atmega> wow, how 80's
[15:49:09] <cradek> a photomultiplier tube can detect one photon
[15:49:21] <pcw_home> I guess some HF/microwave high power tubes are used in transmitters/radar still
[15:49:21] <atmega> that's really pretty damned impressive.
[15:49:35] <Dave_911> Hey ... I was talking to my daughter and I mentioned Bob Hope .. the comedian .. and she said who is that??? !!! She had no idea .. 3rd year college student ... I felt old again...
[15:50:39] <pcw_home> PM tubes always amazed me I remember trying to measure the speed of light with a strobe and a PM as a teenager
[15:51:20] <mozmck_work> when I can find an affordable LCD that can give me the resolution of my 21" CRT I'll switch to LCD
[15:52:14] <pcw_home> I still use a CRT for layout, I can change res without aliasing
[15:52:52] <mozmck_work> they're still hard to beat IMO
[15:52:53] <cradek> I use CRTs on my kvm consoles since they are far superior at displaying any old signal presented to them
[15:52:57] <atmega> radar looks better on tube
[15:53:11] <Dave_911> I picked up a Samsung 25.5 LCD HDMI TV/Monitor for $250 the other day--- new demo and it is better than any CRT I could ever afford.
[15:53:13] <Dave_911> Really sharp...
[15:53:36] <SWPadnos> LCDs can't help but be sharp
[15:53:49] <SWPadnos> unless you feed them with (a) an analog signal or (b) the wrong resolution
[15:53:55] <SWPadnos> or (c) all of the above
[15:53:56] <Jymmm> I like my Samsung 23" LCD goes up to 2048x too!
[15:54:02] <archivist> crt is better for colour
[15:54:12] <cradek> yes at sharpness/convergence LCDs are superior - for analog signals at varying resolutions they suck badly
[15:54:26] <SWPadnos> yeah, too bad you can't get anything in the 2048x1152 resolution any more, except one Acer and maybe one Dell (27")
[15:54:29] <Dave_911> Moving those big old CRTs was a bitch ... seriously hard on your back ...
[15:55:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm still looking for a spare one. You want me to look for one for you too?
[15:55:04] <atmega> we have a bunch of 1024x768 touch screen MMI apps that looked good on 25" crt's, not so hot on LCD's in non-native res
[15:55:05] <archivist> as a TV repair person from the 1970's I can concur on the weight
[15:55:13] <SWPadnos> I don't have one, it's on the camera system
[15:55:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: still
[15:55:35] <SWPadnos> well, if you find a source, let me know
[15:55:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm talking CL here.
[15:55:47] <SWPadnos> I'm not too keen on buying discontinued stuff these days though
[15:55:55] <SWPadnos> classicladder?
[15:56:21] <Dave_911> The 1080p spec seems to be screwing things up in that regard ... Just like laptops -- who wants a 16x9 laptop screen??
[15:56:31] <SWPadnos> yes, it sucks a lot
[15:56:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh, I bought a Fry's warranty when I got mine. So if it blows up, they'l have to replace it with another one that does 2048 =)
[15:56:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: CL == CraigsList
[15:57:13] <SWPadnos> http://www.ostendotech.com/crvd/
[15:57:28] <SWPadnos> too bad the resolution and price have an inverse relationship on that one
[15:57:30] <pcw_home> I always though this 16x9 thing was just a ploy to get the diagonal spec bigger for a given # of pixels
[15:57:57] <atmega> there isn't really enough difference for even marketin dweebs to do that
[15:58:05] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 16x9 is theater screen ratio
[15:58:22] <Dave_911> Try to buy a 15" regular old LCD screen these days ... 1024x768! They are not easy to find new.
[15:58:29] <atmega> what kind of tooling would you use to engrave a name in/on plexi/lucite/etc?
[15:58:39] <strum> i like the 16:9 alot more than 4:3
[15:58:55] <Jymmm> Dave_911: Nobody is giving up LCD's, no matter the size.
[15:59:11] <strum> LED's are the future
[15:59:22] <Dave_911> Jymmm.... true .. I love LCDs
[15:59:44] <Jymmm> Nobody wants to lug around 72lbs CRT's, including me, though I have two 24" remaining
[16:00:21] <atmega> I've got some small lilliput touchscreen LCD's on machines, they are nice for mounting and being out of the way.
[16:00:37] <Jymmm> atmega: what size?
[16:00:46] <tom3p> atmega: tool= single lip cutter. tool holder = depends on your spindle
[16:01:00] <atmega> Jymm: 7's and 10's
[16:01:04] <strum> WALL STREET JOURNAL- (2/2010)
[16:01:05] <strum> "You are witnessing a fundamental breakdown of the American dream, a systemic breakdown of our democracy and our capitalism, a breakdown driven by the blind insatiable greed of Wall Street: Dysfunctional government, insane markets, economy on the brink. Multiply that many times over and see a world in total disarray. Ignore it now, tomorrow will be too late."
[16:01:08] <strum> rofl
[16:01:10] <strum> last word
[16:01:12] <strum> promise
[16:01:25] <strum> ;]
[16:01:34] <cradek> atmega: can you still buy them? that sounds great.
[16:01:34] <Dave_911> I put some 24" CRTs in the trash about 2 years ago.. they cost a small fortune when new but I couldn't give them away .. so out they went. I was concerned that the trash man might get made at me since they were so heavy ..
[16:01:35] <atmega> tom3p: is a single lip cutter like a 90-degree pcb cutter?
[16:01:52] <Jymmm> Jymmm has kicked strum from #emc
[16:02:07] <SWPadnos> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-1172
[16:02:23] <atmega> cradek: http://dynamixcomputers.com/lilliput_619gl.html
[16:02:38] <atmega> our sourcing dept. gets them from somewhere else though
[16:02:40] <tom3p> atmega: take a tool blank, split it just past center, roll grind a relief , only one lip cuts
[16:03:09] <atmega> tom3p: that's wayyyyyy past my level of ability.
[16:03:10] <tom3p> 90degrees or whatever you like
[16:03:15] <tom3p> k
[16:03:21] <cradek> atmega: does the touchscreen work reliably and with linux?
[16:03:38] <atmega> cradek: dunno, never tried it with linux
[16:03:44] <Jymmm> atmega: wanna get rid of one?
[16:03:58] <atmega> these are WonderWare(tm) boxes and custom HMI things
[16:04:07] <cradek> they're reliable though? I bought an ebay POS 7" touchscreen and the touch part worked for 5 minutes and then failed
[16:04:26] <atmega> Jymm: work boxes, they aren't going anywhere (and are mostly contaminated)
[16:04:37] <Jymmm> atmega: ah
[16:04:48] <atmega> cradek: I've had 2 of the 7" ones running for 5 or 6 years
[16:04:50] <Jymmm> atmega: "contaminated"???
[16:05:07] <atmega> one other one just displaying camera video for longer than that.
[16:05:17] <atmega> Jymm: I work in a nuclear facility.
[16:05:37] <Jymmm> atmega: That's ok, I'll dip them in lead a couple of times =)
[16:06:44] <Dave_911> atmega: What is it with Lilliput... are they the biggest small LCD maker out there or something?? Their screens are not cheap...
[16:07:18] <Dave_911> Crazy when a Samsung 20 inch screen costs less than a 7" touch screen..
[16:07:28] <atmega> Dave: no clue, someone just suggested them years ago and that's what I've been buying.
[16:07:54] <atmega> actually, the others on that web site look as good or better
[16:09:06] <Dave_911> So do the screens fail mostly from contamination? Are these screens on 24x7?
[16:09:31] <atmega> I've never had one of these fail actually
[16:09:53] <atmega> well, the wires got yanked out of one, but that wasn't really a failure
[16:10:19] <Dave_911> Do you have any experience with sunlight readable screens? wires yanked off.. ;-) probably not a warranty issue :-)
[16:11:00] <atmega> no sunlight anywhere near any of these so I couldn't say.
[16:11:25] <Dave_911> OK ...I'd really like to find a smaller sunlight readable screen that didn't cost a fortune ...
[16:11:31] <atmega> I've had about 8 of 12 samsung 20" LCD's fail in the last year or two
[16:12:41] <Dave_911> Really ... wow... I just put a 20" Samsung on a machine ... hope it makes it through the machine warranty period of 1 year!
[16:13:09] <Dave_911> The display is really nice.. customer loves it..
[16:14:04] <atmega> these are all SyncMaster 940b's
[16:14:40] <atmega> 19" maybe
[16:15:31] <Dave_911> atmega: Do you panel mount those Lilliputs somehow or do you put them on Vesa mounts or how do you secure them. They are so small that if they aren't mounted I don't see how you could use the touch feature without pushing them around.
[16:16:41] <atmega> these came with a little base. Most just got two holes in the base and attached to 80/20
[16:17:06] <atmega> tom3p: something like http://www.virtualvillage.com/3x-1-8-v-shape-carbide-cnc-engraving-router-bits-diy-007807-075.html
[16:20:05] <Dave_911> atmega.. well that is easy ...
[16:20:31] <Dave_911> atmega.. are you trying to engrave machine tags ?
[16:20:50] <atmega> a name plate for my wife actually
[16:20:54] <cradek> someone I know made one of those recently by sticking a dowel pin in a cordless drill and grinding it to a point
[16:21:04] <cradek> (on a bench grinder)
[16:21:15] <atmega> I'd just order one online except they all have too few characters
[16:21:31] <cradek> it looked like it cut fine, actually (he was cutting wood)
[16:21:58] <atmega> I'd like to be able to cut some machine panels (for personal use)
[16:22:06] <Dave_911> There is a lot of engraving stuff on ebay... gravoply type plastic .. cutters etc. Some of the plastic is really inexpensive..
[16:22:53] <atmega> at work, I can pretty much just order wtf I want to make things come out right... at home, I have to pay for them and it is painful to have to make the cost tradeoff
[16:25:34] <cradek> 6' of 1/4" drill rod is dirt cheap and has an awful lot of engraving bits in it
[16:25:44] <Dave_911> I built an engraver out of some X-Y slides I got off ebay... but I keep using it for other things.. was a test bed for some motion software I was using etc so I changed the motors etc.. I need to set it up with EMC and actually use it!
[16:26:44] <Dave_911> cradek: true ..
[16:26:49] <atmega> I can buy the bits
[16:27:04] <atmega> what I really need is software that is not overly painful to use
[16:27:34] <Dave_911> I don't think carbide bits are that expensive and I have heard they last much longer than hss.
[16:28:14] <atmega> I used HSS turning some acrylic, the inserts wore down very quickly
[16:28:45] <atmega> and it was incredibly messy
[16:30:47] <Dave_911> I know one guy who swears by Type3 (?) for engraving software but I guess it isn't cheap. He is very particular. He uses it with Mach3.
[16:31:51] <Dave_911> I believe that cradek has some software that he did but I haven't tried it yet ..
[16:32:44] <Dave_911> cradek: Did you use your software to create that splash program?
[16:32:53] <cradek> for engraving fonts, truetype-tracer is good, but you'd have to put together a full panel using its output with some other software (or manually in gcode)
[16:33:00] <tom3p> using AXIS/EMC2 2.4.0~pre, running 3D-Chips, if i click STOP during the cut, the machine moves off path & towards X0Y0Zarbitary.
[16:33:00] <tom3p> is this just 2.4.0~pre?
[16:33:31] <cradek> hard to say what 2.4.0~pre is
[16:33:39] <cradek> what git ref is it?
[16:33:46] <Dave_911> wasn't that fixed?
[16:33:52] <tom3p> hard for me to say too, hmm, not this machine
[16:34:22] <tom3p> how do i find the 'git ref' ?
[16:34:26] <cradek> git describe
[16:34:46] <tom3p> thx, will report later\
[16:38:01] <cradek> or update to the tip of v2.4_branch and see if it goes away
[16:38:22] <Dave_911> Have you guys ever used sheetcam? Not free, but very easy to use. Took me about an hour to figure out most of it and then I demoed it for a customer. They have a linux version
[16:38:23] <Dave_911> also, but I demoed the Windows version. Could be nice for making custom panel fronts along with cradeks software.
[16:40:13] <atmega> cut2d looks like it would do almost all I want and is only $150
[16:40:26] <atmega> but, I don't think I've ever paid $150 for software.
[16:40:50] <Dave_911> I think sheetcam is $175 or so ...
[16:41:49] <Dave_911> If you can make money with it.... then there is an equation you can apply ... if not, then it's a whole different situation.
[16:42:55] <Dave_911> The sheetcam demo sw you can download will generate hundreds of lines of Gcode.
[16:44:25] <atmega> Note this download is limited to approximately 180 lines of generated code
[16:45:45] <Dave_911> That is still quite a bit.. take the output of sheetcam and manually merge it with the output of true type tracer.. :-)
[16:54:08] <Dave_911> A lot of people seem to like the Vectric CAM software but I have never tried it. Perhaps I should. Is there a demo version of that software?
[16:54:21] <atmega> demos of all of them
[16:54:40] <atmega> cut2d is vectric... aspire is the most full featured
[16:55:42] <Dave_911> Thanks ... I'll need to try out the cut2d software and compare that to sheetcam.
[16:56:02] <atmega> cut2d also does layout
[16:56:29] <Dave_911> You mean multiple pieces, nesting ?
[16:57:03] <atmega> no, it lets you do the design in it.
[16:57:36] <mong> Hi all, i am looking for some help setting up emc2 for type2 quadrature signal steps?
[16:58:37] <Dave_911> OK, that is nice. Sheetcam does not ..
[17:00:01] <Dave_911> mong: Are these quadrature inputs or outputs?
[17:00:49] <Dave_911> Hi micges!
[17:01:22] <micges> hi
[17:02:35] <Dave_911> bbl .. lunch
[17:04:07] <mong> quadrature outputs
[17:04:51] <mong> think i may have found some info: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,1986/limit,6/limitstart,6/lang,english/
[17:05:13] <mong> and here:
[17:05:15] <mong> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg00856.html
[17:51:12] <SWPadnos> mong: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[17:51:19] <SWPadnos> type 2 is quadrature
[17:58:03] <LawrenceG> mong, I use step type 2 with my lathe/mill drives. I can email you config files if that will help
[18:10:26] <JT-Work> were raising a baby squirrel :)
[18:21:09] <ries> JT-Work: must be cool.... what happened to the mother/father (or however they do it) ??
[18:27:38] <JT-Work> not sure what happened a friend's daughter found it out in the middle of her yard with no tree anywhere near
[18:28:43] <JT-Work> she fed it with an eye dropper for a couple of weeks then brought it down here and left it with her dad now he is going to Mississippi and he left Sue with us to finish raising
[18:42:47] <bricofoy> will you turn it to CNC to machine nuts ?
[18:42:57] <bricofoy> ok, I go far away...........
[18:43:26] <JT-Work> I think I'll train it to pick up chips from the floor
[18:47:28] <bricofoy> nice :)
[19:31:27] <morficmobile> SWPadnos: oh, wrong channel
[19:33:02] <mozmck_work> morficmobile: did you do something special to make it run faster?
[19:33:17] <kanzure> i'm thinking about getting this (at a cheaper price)
[19:33:18] <kanzure> http://cgi.ebay.com/Unimate-PUMA500-Robot-Arm-JR3-67M25A-U560-hand-/290373583741?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439b9d437d
[19:33:21] <kanzure> any thoughts?
[19:33:42] <morficmobile> mozmck_work: nah, just compiled it, instead of running the RT package as sim
[19:34:52] <mozmck_work> kanzure, what will you do with it?
[19:35:13] <kanzure> graffiti
[19:35:15] <kanzure> scratching my ass
[19:35:16] <kanzure> stuff like that
[19:35:22] <morficmobile> mozmck_work: installing the RT version in VM was nasty slow
[19:35:33] <morficmobile> off the cd
[19:37:09] <mozmck_work> morficmobile: oh, I see. I haven't tried a VM yet. Didn't figure RT would run in it at all really.
[19:37:35] <mozmck_work> kanzure: just wondered. I have a small arm similar to that.
[19:38:04] <kanzure> what's your experience with it?
[19:38:10] <kanzure> i mean, what do you use it for, does it work well, etc.
[19:39:03] <mozmck_work> I haven't used it. It is another project (like I needed another one.)
[19:39:19] <andypugh> You can run RT on a VM. You get unexpected delays, so it's no good for actual machining, but it lets you try things out with all the right hooks
[19:39:23] <mozmck_work> Thought about getting it running with EMC2 just to play with.
[19:40:27] <kanzure> mozmck_work: yeah i'm probably going to hook it up to emc2 if i complete the purchase
[19:42:17] <morficmobile> andypugh: it's really really bad, easier to compile as sim
[19:42:31] <morficmobile> on normal ubuntu install
[19:43:27] <andypugh> I agree it is useless for moving machinery, but for checking out non-sim configs it's fine.
[19:49:48] <DaViruz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ye2Q8U-rY
[19:49:49] <DaViruz> neat
[20:07:21] <morficmobile> andypugh: i didn't mean for machinery, just to simulate :)
[20:08:47] <andypugh> A live-CD install into a VM is about as easy as it gets, much easier than compiling anything special.
[20:09:59] <morficmobile> easy, oh yes, just unsuitable
[20:10:35] <andypugh> Apart from one Realtime Delay message per run, it works OK.
[20:13:09] <wendtmk> morficmobile: What exactly are you trying to do with it?
[20:13:28] <morficmobile> andypugh: axis.ini did, lathe.ini bogged down
[20:14:02] <morficmobile> wendtmk: test lathe programs
[20:14:21] <morficmobile> which now works decently, did not work decently with the cd install
[20:14:44] <morficmobile> so SWPadnos suggested dropping the cd install and build the sim on reg ubuntu, works great
[20:15:04] <wendtmk> When you say bogged down, do you mean the computer itself of just EMC?
[20:16:37] <wendtmk> Ah, typo. That should have said "or just EMC".
[20:22:28] <morficmobile> wendtmk: the VM, the DE itself was unresponsive
[20:23:05] <wendtmk> Was it a fresh install?
[20:23:34] <andypugh> I have only tried it on VMware with my Mac, but have never noticed that problem.
[20:24:42] <wendtmk> Just wondered if there were some old legacy files laying around that were causing problems. What kind of machine were you trying to build it on?
[20:24:45] <andypugh> Though I am about to get unresponsive myself, dinner time.
[20:26:12] <wendtmk> Andy, an empty tummy will do that to you... ;-)
[20:27:41] <morficmobile> wendtmk: was fresh from cd, yes
[20:28:16] <morficmobile> just need a sim to work on gcode in
[20:29:56] <wendtmk> So, if I got this right, fresh install, and you were trying to run in in a virutal machine then?
[20:32:37] <wendtmk> Wonder how Gene made out with his lawn mowing workout this afternoon. Warm here too.
[20:44:01] <morficmobile> wendtmk: that's what i did
[20:45:27] <wendtmk> Which VM are you using?
[20:47:42] <wendtmk> I'm mostly just curious. Never tried to run EMC in a VM
[20:49:06] <wendtmk> How much memory do you have on the machine?
[20:58:18] <morficmobile> wendtmk: virtualox 3.1.8, 4gb on host, 512mb for guest
[21:01:19] <tom3p> comes with virtualbagels?
[21:05:02] <morficmobile> wendtmk: virtualbox 3.1.8, 4gb on host, 512mb for guest
[21:06:01] <sealive> how wants to watch the live event of the Year live closing of the oilspill well ->"mms.piersystem.com/deepwater1"
[21:06:10] <sealive> VLC-Player
[21:06:49] <wendtmk> morficmobile: Any way to bump up the amount of memory available for the guest? I'm tending to think maybe the VM may be getting short on memory and paging out. VM's can, depending on the amount of overhead required to run them, use up quite a bit of memory.
[21:11:35] <morficmobile> wendtmk: was never swapping
[21:11:50] <morficmobile> according to free -m :)
[21:12:02] <JT-Dev> wow giant purple screen
[21:12:18] <sealive> JT lucid?
[21:12:24] <JT-Dev> yes
[21:12:57] <sealive> JT-Dev: i changet to the Sky look like
[21:13:07] <wendtmk> Interesting.
[21:13:08] <JT-Dev> just starting the install
[21:13:14] <sealive> the Hemisfär is also nice
[21:13:57] <morficmobile> lucid cd is interesting
[21:14:41] <sealive> morficmobile: 32bit works fine 64 no way
[21:15:09] <wendtmk> morficmobile: That 512 MB is allocated to that process though, and may or may not show up as swapping, but the VM may have use all the available memory allocated to it, and was in IO wait until some of of that allocated memory was freed up.
[21:16:10] <wendtmk> If that process wasn't allowed any more memory than the original allocation, and it had used it all up, that would definitely bog it's process down.
[21:19:35] <mozmck_work> JT-Dev: try the rt packages at http://www.linux.cnc/mozmck when you get a chance.
[21:20:20] <JT-Dev> ok, I get a page load error atm
[21:23:11] <morficmobile> wendtmk: you mean the VM itself did not get the memory from the host.
[21:23:47] <wendtmk> morficmobile: if you don't have it, download the sysstat package and run sar while your virtual machine is running. sar will collect tons of stuff on running processes, and it cn help you troubleshoot what's going on with the VM.
[21:25:28] <wendtmk> morficmobile: No, it got the memory, but if only 512 MB was allocated, and the VM used up all that memory space, unless it gets allocated more memory, the process will sit and wait until some of that allocated memory is freed up before the process begins to run again. Try bumping up the allocated memory for guest to 1 GB and run it.
[21:26:41] <JT-Dev> that was a quick install
[21:26:59] <sealive> :D
[21:27:14] <sealive> JT did you make a seperate Home?
[21:27:29] <sealive> or only EX2 and swap
[21:27:35] <JT-Dev> I don't know what you mean
[21:27:37] <sealive> ex3
[21:27:49] <sealive> the partichen
[21:27:55] <JT-Dev> 14 minutes to install
[21:28:05] <JT-Dev> oh I think it made a swap
[21:29:22] <sealive> swap is recomentet
[21:30:00] <JT-Dev> I just followed the bouncing ball and only checked off I want to automagiclly log in
[21:30:01] <sealive> separate Home is better for crashing or updating in 6Month
[21:30:21] <jpm> Hello all I am working on a 7i43 and 7i37 servo 3 axis system. I have a MPG setup with axis and magnification selectors. Are there any good examples of interfacing the axis and mag selectors ushing hal
[21:31:12] <sealive> JT-Dev: Maverick Meerkat is to come in oktober
[21:31:14] <morficmobile> wendtmk: if linux, the guest does not report all mem used, where would this lack of memory come from? maybe i'm missing something you are trying to say
[21:32:19] <morficmobile> i'll try 1gb in morning
[21:32:39] <JT-Dev> jpm: here is one but not exactly what your looking for
[21:33:18] <JT-Dev> I could wander out to the shop if it is not raining too hard and pastebin my hal file for the Hardinge which is like you have
[21:33:25] <JT-Dev> if you want me too
[21:33:36] <wendtmk> Okey dokey. Gotta run. Dinner bell is calling. Good luck with it.
[21:33:59] <JT-Dev> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//examples_mpg.html
[21:34:07] <BridgeportIIa> Where does 2.4.0 put the converter program for the old-to-new tool table conversion? We need to run it again, I think it balked due to us having more than 56 tools.
[21:35:05] <jpm> JT-DEV: maybe in a week or so im going to try playing with hal for now just was looking for a similar example
[21:35:22] <cradek> emc should read in the old format, and write out the new
[21:35:34] <tom3p> JT reboot already?
[21:35:35] <cradek> there is no external convertor
[21:35:44] <JT-Dev> reboot?
[21:35:55] <cradek> but hmm, >56 might futz it up
[21:36:04] <tom3p> i thought you just installed lucid
[21:36:06] <JT-Dev> There is tool for converting to new tool tables in src/emc/usr_intf/toolconvert.tcl from the docs
[21:36:18] <JT-Dev> I did
[21:36:23] <JT-Dev> it's done
[21:36:53] <tom3p> JT-Dev, ok, i got a null grub entry and couldnt reboot, good on ya!
[21:36:58] <cradek> ok, there is, but it's not needed anymore!
[21:37:19] <JT-Dev> should I delete that from the manual?
[21:37:39] <JT-Dev> tom3p: my install went without a hitch (for a change)
[21:37:42] <cradek> yeah probably
[21:37:47] <mozmck_work> JT-Dev: uh, my link was bad, got distracted. http://www.linuxcnc.org/mozmck
[21:37:56] <cradek> it should be automatic
[21:38:12] <cradek> bbl
[21:38:13] <JT-Dev> mozmck_work: that one works :)
[21:38:28] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev wanders off to find a network cable or make one...
[21:39:46] <tom3p> mozmck_work, does that dir contain a lucid emc image?
[21:40:20] <mozmck_work> tom3p: yes, lucid rt kernel, rtai, and emc2 packages
[21:40:43] <tom3p> thx :) (crosses fingers)
[21:40:49] <mozmck_work> for testing, might burn your house down :)
[21:40:52] <JT-Dev> any order to install them?
[21:41:45] <mozmck_work> hmm, linux-headers first if you have any dkms modules that need building (nvidia etc).
[21:42:05] <mozmck_work> then linux-image, then rtai-modules, then emc2
[21:43:29] <jpm> JT-dev are you using the fourth encoder input on the 7i43 as your mpg
[21:44:16] <JT-Dev> yea, let me run out to the shop and copy the relevant part of my hal file and pastebin that for you.
[21:45:21] <JT-Dev> Yea, Lucy is on the internet
[21:45:28] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev runs out to the shop
[21:47:08] <jpm> JT Dev BRB
[21:49:52] <penguin> hi
[21:50:04] <penguin> the archive of the discussions don't have yesterday discussions!
[21:50:18] <penguin> all the blabla of yesterday
[21:50:24] <JT-Hardinge> http://pastebin.com/BA7tTNrW
[21:50:31] <andypugh> I am not sure the logger runs reliably at the moment
[21:51:12] <penguin> i need to recover a long conversation with valen
[21:51:41] <Valen> 's ok you have the real thing lol
[21:51:52] <penguin> valen !
[21:51:57] <penguin> don't worry
[21:52:40] <Valen> btw odds are your IRC client will have it logged
[21:53:05] <penguin> i use the java client of linuxcnc
[21:53:11] <Valen> oh
[21:53:16] <Valen> why?
[21:53:40] <Valen> you can run an irc client directly on the emc machine btw
[21:53:47] <JT-Dev> mozmck_work: I see two linux headers
[21:53:48] <penguin> because i don't chat very much... and i have no problems before
[21:54:02] <penguin> mmm...
[21:54:06] <celeron55> penguin: http://celer.oni.biz/~celeron55/temp/emc201005.log
[21:54:21] <JT-Dev> do I just need the i386 one?
[21:54:28] <celeron55> it's there at the middle... i'll remove it after a while so save it
[21:55:17] <penguin> thanks!!!!!!!!!
[21:55:27] <penguin> few
[21:56:16] <andypugh> Look for "pidgin" on your EMC machine. It's probably there, and is rather less troublesome than the web client
[21:56:19] <celeron55> scroll to lines starting with '22/'
[21:56:45] <penguin> pigdin+EMC=chat engraving ?
[21:57:03] <JT-Dev> jpm: JT-Hardinge>http://pastebin.com/BA7tTNrW
[21:57:22] <andypugh> It's one way to log the chat, I suppose.
[21:57:31] <penguin> yes... was a joke
[21:57:51] <Valen> I just DCCed him yesterdays log
[21:58:26] <jpm> JT-Dev: thanks that cleared up a few questions. The selectors i have are grey code i suspect i would mux thier pins togther
[21:59:15] <JT-Dev> what kind of output do they give?
[21:59:45] <andypugh> Some gray codes are identical to quadrature on some pins.
[22:01:01] <JT-Dev> I've never seen a gray code selector switch... does it have like a zillion positions?
[22:01:36] <JT-Dev> I can't believe how fast the 10.4 install went :)
[22:01:59] <jpm> JT-DEV: they are standard rotary switches you vould find machining center these ones are off of an OKK MPG pendant
[22:02:31] <JT-Dev> ah ok, I'm used to AB 800 selector switches
[22:02:53] <JT-Dev> jpm: how many positions do they have?
[22:03:31] <skunkworks> JT-Dev: I have been running the strait 10.4 on my newish laptop since it had been released... seems to work very well. seems to have found most if not all of the hardware.
[22:03:47] <jpm> JT-DEV: do you mean how many output pins?
[22:04:07] <JT-Dev> that too, but how many positions can you stop the knob at?
[22:04:36] <jpm> JT-Dev one has four the other has six
[22:06:17] <BridgeportIIa> cradek: OK, thanks. I'll work on it and let you know. BBL.
[22:06:24] <jpm> JT-dev .0001-.001-.010-.100 The other is axis selection x,y,z,a,b,c
[22:09:20] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev hates this gateway computer slightest voltage surge and it just shuts off...
[22:09:29] <JT-Dev> what did I miss while I was away
[22:11:54] <JT-Dev> looks like the only difference between gray code selectors and binary is how the out lines are switched
[22:12:16] <JT-Dev> The reflected binary code solves this problem by changing only one switch at a time, so there is never any ambiguity of position,
[22:12:23] <andypugh> jpm: a 4-position gray code is identical to quadrature, you can wire it direct.
[22:12:57] <JT-Dev> jpm you were saying something to me but when the computer shut down I missed it
[22:13:28] <jpm> yep <jpm> JT-dev .0001-.001-.010-.100 The other is axis selection x,y,z,a,b,c
[22:14:20] <JT-Dev> my example is from my lathe so only two axes... you just have to expand on it :)
[22:14:29] <jpm> Have to leave yall have a good night
[22:14:38] <jpm> JT-dev
[22:14:39] <JT-Dev> good night
[22:15:15] <jpm> Thanks for the post
[22:15:33] <JT-Dev> np
[22:16:17] <JT-Dev> mozmck_work: are you still around?
[22:17:43] <JT-Dev> installing the rtai I get Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: linux-image-2.6.32-22-rtai
[22:25:47] <mozmck_work> did you install linux-image-blahblah first?
[22:29:01] <mozmck_work> JT-Dev: you need both linux-header packages and the linux-image package from my site installed first.
[22:30:15] <mozmck_work> bbl
[23:08:20] <davidf> Hi. Anybody ever use gschem / PCB and gcam?
[23:10:05] <roberth_> mozmck just trying your packages on 10.04 ii got: Can not find -sec EMC -var NML_FILE -num 1
[23:10:06] <roberth_> RTAPI: ERROR: failed to map shmem
[23:10:06] <roberth_> RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
[23:12:15] <mozmck> hi roberth_: I don't know that the first problem is a problem (-sec EMC etc)
[23:13:08] <mozmck> for the second, you need to change the line in your /etc/security/limits.conf from "* hard memlock 20480" to "* - memlock 20480"
[23:14:29] <robh_> robh_ is now known as Guest18275
[23:16:24] <mozmck> roberth_: in a terminal window you can set the soft memlock by typing "ulimit -Sl 20480" no quotes of course. After that you should be able to run emc2. You'll still want to change limits.conf so it sets it each time you boot.
[23:16:41] <mozmck> bbl
[23:17:21] <roberth_> ill give that ago thx
[23:45:04] <roberth_> mozmck, it works now thx loads fine
[23:50:13] <Guest213> hi... i'm tryinig to do this: git checkout REALASE_X_Y_Z
[23:50:19] <Guest213> X=2
[23:50:23] <Guest213> Y=4
[23:50:25] <Guest213> Z=0
[23:50:42] <Guest213> but apparently this release doesn't work
[23:52:49] <Guest213> git checkout REALASE_2.4.0
[23:53:20] <cradek> commit 10815acca9ce38311b71414db238d9f83b206309 (tag: v2.4.0)
[23:53:30] <Guest213> it's the same?
[23:53:40] <Guest213> git blablabla and commit blablala?
[23:54:00] <cradek> old tags were RELEASE_X_Y_Z (note the correct spelling of release) but more recent tags are like v2.4.0
[23:54:21] <Guest213> let see
[23:57:40] <Guest205> commint does not work
[23:57:42] <Guest205> commit
[23:57:46] <Guest205> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_6_06_or_8_04_from_source
[23:58:17] <Guest213> i'm following the section "Getting the source with git"
[23:58:30] <Valen> penguin is that you?
[23:58:37] <Guest213> yes
[23:58:43] <Guest213> i can't use my nick
[23:59:01] <Valen> type /nick penguin to change nick or /nick penguin_emc perhaps
[23:59:14] <Guest213> asdads
[23:59:24] <Guest213> Guest213 is now known as penguin_emc
[23:59:26] <penguin_emc> asdsd
[23:59:30] <Valen> there ya go
[23:59:35] <Valen> feel better? ;->
[23:59:49] <penguin_emc> yes... i feel pirated