#emc | Logs for 2010-05-25

[00:34:12] <Guest197> gg/join #emc-devel
[01:18:34] <tom3p> stumbled upon http://bib.irb.hr/datoteka/421305.209-Staroveski-Brezak-Udiljak-Majetic-CIM_2009.pdf emc and canopen
[01:38:40] <tom3p> anyone looked at Beremiz? (plc editor +)
[02:33:15] <FronBrasil> hi
[02:33:44] <FronBrasil> alguem fala portugues
[02:36:37] <strum> nyet
[02:36:39] <strum> non
[02:36:47] <strum> negatori
[02:36:49] <FronBrasil> tanks
[02:38:33] <Valen> FronBrasil: if you have a problem ask in english even if you run it through a translator and you will probably get some help
[02:38:36] <strum> no worries
[02:40:59] <FronBrasil> I'm configuring a driver dir / step with PIC16F84A and not get hit
[02:41:21] <FronBrasil> ok translator.
[02:44:21] <FronBrasil> I copied the project site http://eufacoemcasa.blogspot.com/search/label/CNC
[02:56:07] <FronBrasil> ?
[02:58:14] <Valen> whats the problem?
[02:59:49] <FronBrasil> is a setting for undeveloped site with the Linux source code is http://www.dakeng.com/u2.html
[03:00:44] <FronBrasil> i'm configuring a driver dir/step valen
[03:01:38] <FronBrasil> has a microcontroller PIC16F84A
[03:02:09] <FronBrasil> already configured one before?
[03:03:16] <FronBrasil> I think the pulse of emc are very quick to the input pins of PIC16F84A
[03:04:31] <Valen> you want to use a PIC to run a stepper motor?
[03:05:01] <Valen> first suggestion is to not use a 16F84A, take a look at something like the 16F628A, much more features
[03:05:33] <strum> you don't need a pic
[03:05:50] <strum> all you need is an opto isolted parrell break out and stepper drivers
[03:05:57] <Valen> strum it sounds like he is using the pic as the stepper drive
[03:06:05] <strum> why?
[03:06:38] <Valen> was just the impression I got
[03:06:38] <strum> a stepper driver can be made from logic chips and darlington array
[03:06:51] <strum> no need for an intelligence on it
[03:06:53] <Valen> yeah but if you have a PIC why not use it
[03:06:56] <strum> EMC does all that
[03:06:59] <Valen> PWM outputs, current limits
[03:07:14] <strum> EMC generates the stepper pulses
[03:07:23] <FronBrasil> yes astrosyn step
[03:07:31] <Valen> yes but its not going to PWM them to limit the current
[03:10:35] <FronBrasil> the code was available on the website and I did not find any that were also available.
[03:11:39] <Valen> FronBrasil do you have a schematic of your circuit?
[03:12:21] <FronBrasil> I'm using PIC16F84A to send half a step motor astrosyn
[03:13:03] <FronBrasil> yes from code http://www.dakeng.com/u2.html
[03:13:08] <Valen> FronBrasil have you thought of using a crystal oscilator on your PIC if you want more speed?
[03:13:56] <FronBrasil> electronic http://eufacoemcasa.blogspot.com/search/label/CNC
[03:14:35] <FronBrasil> crystal oscilator yes
[03:15:02] <Valen> yeah you are running at 2.5mhz, you can run the 16F84A to 20mhz
[03:15:10] <FronBrasil> more would have to change the header of the source code
[03:15:45] <Valen> also have you used stepconf to make sure you are meeting the 40us step time?
[03:15:54] <FronBrasil> and compile it again
[03:16:02] <Valen> that shouldn't be too hard
[03:16:10] <Valen> did you program the last one?
[03:17:29] <Valen> its a very small program
[03:17:53] <Valen> you just need to change the fuses actually to run with the crystal rather than RC
[03:18:08] <Valen> if you use http://www.dakeng.com/halfstep.asm I think its already done for crystal
[03:18:10] <FronBrasil> was wondering if anyone has any idea to configure EMC2 order to diagnose and then stir in electronics
[03:18:17] <FronBrasil> yes valen
[03:19:06] <Valen> is the problem that your driver is loosing steps or is it that you aren't getting any steps at all?
[03:19:10] <FronBrasil> I am no expert in programming :-)
[03:19:45] <strum> then why make something more complicated than it needs to be
[03:20:39] <FronBrasil> the driver does not move
[03:20:59] <strum> do you have a logic probe?
[03:21:12] <strum> and/or oscilloscope?
[03:21:39] <FronBrasil> I tested the Windowns and worked well with mach3
[03:21:54] <strum> ah ok
[03:22:09] <strum> then it must be the way you have EMC configured
[03:22:18] <strum> not the hardware
[03:22:39] <FronBrasil> I used the scope of the EMC and saw the waves pins 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
[03:23:59] <strum> is that the same as when you run it from mach3?
[03:24:23] <FronBrasil> used stepconf
[03:24:54] <FronBrasil> yes
[03:26:25] <strum> that cannot be the case
[03:26:35] <FronBrasil> stepconf disabled it in the emergency stop switches, leaving only the control pins of the axes
[03:26:40] <strum> if that was so then you would get the same behaviour running either software
[03:28:29] <FronBrasil> I believe that the pulses are too short and quick to recognize opic16f84a
[03:28:58] <strum> the reduce EMC's time base setting
[03:29:03] <strum> then reduce rather
[03:30:35] <FronBrasil> I m trying three days and nothing has led to my board indicators as well see the digital answering to this
[03:31:01] <FronBrasil> yes reduce rhater ok
[03:32:28] <FronBrasil> here in Brazil there is little information in Portuguese
[03:34:49] <FronBrasil> I managed to protect the motors from over-voltage using a current limiter with LM317 and a resistor of 0.9 wired shower
[03:35:55] <FronBrasil> may increase 12v to 30v gaining strength
[03:38:53] <FronBrasil> the price of a quality driver becomes prohibitive
[03:42:44] <FronBrasil> Thank you all for your help my email is david.passos@ig.com.br
[07:18:30] <e-jones> e-jones is now known as e-jones|away
[09:10:13] <e-jones|away> e-jones|away is now known as e-jones
[11:55:04] <piasdom> hello
[11:56:18] <piasdom> can subroutines take global feeds? or does the feed[20/.2] have to be in the routine?
[12:00:50] <SWPadnos> either is fine
[12:01:54] <piasdom> how ?
[12:02:09] <piasdom> i have to put the feed IN thr sub
[12:02:15] <piasdom> *the
[12:02:20] <SWPadnos> you can do it either way
[12:02:32] <SWPadnos> F100 / O100 call will work
[12:02:46] <SWPadnos> as will F something in the subroutine
[12:02:46] <piasdom> put it doesn't work when i don't add it IN the sub
[12:03:07] <SWPadnos> it should, if you actually call the subroutine from somewhere
[12:03:26] <piasdom> i call it a number of times
[12:03:46] <SWPadnos> can you post some code that doesn't work?
[12:03:48] <piasdom> i'll paste if youlike
[12:03:49] <piasdom> k
[12:03:49] <SWPadnos> to pastebin.ca
[12:05:16] <piasdom> http://pastebin.com/yL3Je9fE
[12:06:04] <piasdom> now if i take the feeds out of the sub, it says g1 can't move without feedrate
[12:06:49] <piasdom> when it comes to tye sub,there's another sub before that..works
[12:07:33] <piasdom> tye*the
[12:09:27] <SWPadnos> so the rest of the program is left as is, but when the F words are taken out of the sub, it stops working?
[12:10:23] <piasdom> yes
[12:10:43] <SWPadnos> what line does the error occur on?
[12:11:30] <piasdom> it never runs, just shows some of the paths in the display
[12:12:17] <SWPadnos> hmm, I thought it would give a line number
[12:12:29] <piasdom> let me try again
[12:14:13] <piasdom> i took out line 141 (o200 sub) and it says line 141 cannot move
[12:15:27] <SWPadnos> huh
[12:15:40] <SWPadnos> your lines aren't the same as the pastebin
[12:15:49] <piasdom> i looked in paste
[12:15:50] <SWPadnos> o200 sub is line 140 in the pastebin
[12:16:19] <piasdom> below that was the feed
[12:16:53] <piasdom> i took out #
[12:16:53] <piasdom> #1 = [20*.2]
[12:17:16] <SWPadnos> ah, now I see the problem :)
[12:17:27] <piasdom> cool
[12:17:44] <SWPadnos> subroutines can receive parameters, like functions in a C program
[12:18:01] <SWPadnos> so you can do o200 call [3] [109] ...
[12:18:20] <SWPadnos> when you do that, the parameters are put into variables #1 through #30 (I think)
[12:18:42] <piasdom> let me try
[12:18:43] <SWPadnos> so in a subroutine, #1 is the first parameter, not the #1 you set outside the subroutine
[12:18:52] <SWPadnos> if you use no parameters, #1 is 0
[12:19:09] <SWPadnos> and F0 is not valid for G1 motion
[12:20:57] <piasdom> i did o200 call [3] [109] (correct?) and it no work
[12:21:13] <piasdom> or do i have to have the feed in the sub ?
[12:21:23] <SWPadnos> in that case, #1 in the subroutine will be 3 and #2 will be 109
[12:21:48] <piasdom> i get that now
[12:21:58] <SWPadnos> setting #1 doesn't change the feed rate though
[12:22:25] <SWPadnos> just because there was "F#1" somewhere, doesn't mean that F will change whenever you change #1
[12:22:38] <SWPadnos> you still need another F#1 after changing #1
[12:22:58] <piasdom> then i can't get global feed ?
[12:23:18] <SWPadnos> sure you can, just set F once and don't change it
[12:23:51] <piasdom> oh :) ok but that's why i wanted global, to change the feed
[12:24:21] <piasdom> and didn't want to go all over to do that
[12:24:40] <SWPadnos> make your variables #101 #102 and #103
[12:24:49] <SWPadnos> and then you can use them in the subroutines
[12:25:13] <piasdom> ok Thanks SWPadnos
[12:25:32] <SWPadnos> sure
[12:37:07] <piasdom> later, Thanks again SWPadnos
[17:49:34] <morficmobile> is there one single item on modern motherboards that is detrimental to RT performance? (aside SMI i guess)
[17:50:40] <archivist> some integrated video, the steal the memory for a period
[17:51:25] <archivist> and proprietary drivers for video cards
[17:53:21] <morficmobile> i was planning on sticking to the opensource gfx drivers, to avoid the proprietary modules not wanting to build against an RTAI kernel
[17:54:14] <morficmobile> if amd has no SMI equivalent, then maybe i should aim at a amd mobo+cpu, to avoid the whole "cpu could overheat if you disable SMI" bit
[17:59:49] <morficmobile> i want to push for something to put emc on while the machine parts are out to be reground/repainted
[18:06:04] <frallzor> http://vimeo.com/12019608 my first "job" for school work :P
[18:11:48] <archivist> methinks frallzor should use youtube like the rest of us, that cant play properly here, the sound broken and video is still
[18:12:17] <frallzor> I like good encoding, sue me ;)
[18:13:09] <frallzor> encoding for uploading so youtube can encode propery isnt my cup of tea
[18:13:32] <archivist> youtube is a lot better now
[18:13:42] <frallzor> tried with these files
[18:13:51] <frallzor> it failed horribly with quality
[18:15:13] <frallzor> maybe youtube had a bad day, who knows
[18:15:18] <frallzor> vimeo never failed me =)
[18:15:19] <elmo40> frallzor: no option to use a larger cutter for roughing?
[18:15:31] <elmo40> nice and fast, though :)
[18:15:39] <frallzor> large enough for this
[18:15:45] <frallzor> no need for bigger =)
[18:16:21] <elmo40> what is your CAM ?
[18:17:03] <frallzor> Aspire
[18:17:44] <frallzor> hmm the youtube upload was better now than last time I checked
[18:17:52] <frallzor> giving the tube a second chance now =)
[18:18:40] <elmo40> no finish pass?
[18:18:50] <frallzor> not in the vid
[18:54:48] <ries_> frallzor: looking at the video... I can't help wondering if Aspire doesn't have any optimalisation routines... sometimes the machines goes from A to B to A to B....
[18:59:00] <frallzor> I think that is for the best somehow
[19:04:00] <frallzor> yeah, it does that to prevent breakage it seems
[19:04:19] <frallzor> if it move to the right and is close to an edge larger pieces can break
[19:04:42] <frallzor> but it moves up to the model and does CCW movement and prevents that
[19:11:59] <wendtmk> Howdy everybody!
[19:12:09] <frallzor> ah the quality is way better on the tube now
[19:12:23] <wendtmk> no noob questions today, just wanted to report success!
[19:14:07] <wendtmk> I've been tweaking the machine, and I cut a half a dozen test tstrips from 1/4" x 3/8" poplar (bamboo is too expensive to waste on test strips) and every one of them came out spot on to the G Code dimensions!!!!!
[19:14:35] <frallzor> archivist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKSRC700wZ8 =)
[19:14:53] <wendtmk> I'll be ready to try it out on bamboo strips this weekend, after I get a planer to plane the bamboo strips to a consistent thickness.
[19:15:47] <wendtmk> I just wanted to say thanks to everybody that's helped me out getting the software to work and getting the hardware to move in the right direction. I'd still be scratching my head if it weren't for all the help I'
[19:15:59] <wendtmk> I've gotten here and on the mailing list.
[19:21:01] <frallzor> I was at ikea today, got some nice beech cutting boards =)
[19:21:05] <frallzor> solid ones too :P
[19:26:13] <wendtmk> Are they at least 32" long? ;-) That's the strip length I was cutting. Started into the strip at .032" and finished at .078" for a tapered triangle strip 32" long.
[20:22:18] <bricofoy> frallzor, very impressive !
[20:22:28] <bricofoy> wat are your motors ?
[20:24:26] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[20:28:13] <frallzor> motionking 34HS9801 or something
[20:28:18] <frallzor> nema34 ones
[20:28:33] <frallzor> ries uses the same on his machine =)
[20:29:07] <ries> yup!!
[20:29:25] <frallzor> they are surprisingly awesome despite no gearing
[20:30:26] <ries> frallzor: that's because it's a ridged system ;)
[20:31:19] <frallzor> I was at ikea today, got some cutting boards to play with :P
[20:42:46] <bricofoy> speed is very impressive :)
[20:43:25] <frallzor> its pretty ok at least =P
[20:44:32] <bricofoy> what do you use for transmission ? ballscrews ?
[20:44:53] <frallzor> rack and pinion
[20:45:02] <frallzor> direct drive
[20:45:21] <bricofoy> ok
[20:45:50] <bricofoy> no play with rack and pignon ? what is the gear ratio ?
[20:46:12] <frallzor> gear ratio would be 1:1 I assume =)
[20:46:58] <bricofoy> well right, I've some difficulties to find the right words in english :)
[20:47:06] <frallzor> there is some play, but its negligible
[20:47:26] <bricofoy> I mean : for one motor rev, witch distance the machine moves ?
[20:47:29] <frallzor> ah
[20:47:32] <frallzor> 76mmish
[20:47:55] <bricofoy> ok
[20:48:05] <SWPadnos> 25 * pi, I'm betting :)
[20:48:41] <frallzor> 24 actually
[20:48:42] <SWPadnos> or maybe 24
[20:48:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:50:11] <frallzor> boyah! :P
[20:51:23] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_V48-2cbiE
[20:58:12] <frallzor> I love STL btw
[20:58:18] <frallzor> very nice format
[20:59:23] <frallzor> couldnt be easier to do something nice in solidworks and export to another software for proper camming =)
[21:03:24] <JT-Dev> LOL when you can get camworks to work it is nice
[21:04:00] <frallzor> I think its pretty useless considering how hard it is to even get simple stuff going
[21:04:14] <frallzor> I preferred solidcam, but now I just export =)
[21:05:58] <JT-Dev> I design all my automation equipment in SolidWorks and it is fantastic for that... but most of the time I just need holes and pockets and it is faster to hand code right at the Anilam mill
[21:06:19] <frallzor> yeah designing in solid is nice
[21:06:33] <frallzor> but I find that exporting for cam is easier atm :)
[21:08:21] <JT-Dev> we just finished a run off on one of a pair of machines this afternoon and I'm wooped out
[21:09:05] <JT-Dev> they put a cover plate on a lawnmower engine and fasten it down with 4 bolts every 5.5 seconds
[21:10:15] <bricofoy> hu !
[21:12:11] <JT-Dev> the funny thing is the plant went and took the machines away from our competitor and gave them to us and said "you finish them your way"
[21:12:41] <JT-Dev> we threw everything away or scrapped it except the part from another company
[21:13:30] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev wanders out to the garage to setup the Hardinge for a job :)
[21:14:35] <frallzor> * frallzor is ready to to sharp work too
[21:17:21] <skunkworks_> got a win98 machine back working... (dedicated to playing sounds in a museum) I must have made a backup of the registry a long time ago - was able to restore it and the computer boots againg.
[21:17:23] <skunkworks_> again
[21:17:27] <skunkworks_> win95
[21:17:52] <skunkworks_> 32mb ram
[21:18:30] <skunkworks_> pentium 133
[21:19:34] <SWPadnos> it's pretty funny that that's about the square root of my phone
[21:20:02] <skunkworks_> heh
[21:22:40] <bricofoy> I've a question about HAL
[21:22:46] <SWPadnos> ask
[21:22:54] <skunkworks_> it was running on 16mb - It took me a bit to find a working pair to bring it up to 32mb - part of the issue is that the ram was bad causing a few problems
[21:23:31] <bricofoy> I use motion.digital-out-00 to drive un glue valve
[21:23:36] <SWPadnos> EDO, FPM SIMMs?
[21:23:41] <skunkworks_> simms
[21:24:01] <bricofoy> I need to turn off the outpu if the program is paused
[21:24:53] <bricofoy> so I plan to use a and2 between motion.digital-out-00 and <something> and to have the and2 output conncted to my phisical output
[21:25:16] <SWPadnos> motion.machine-on or similar
[21:25:23] <bricofoy> the question is : wat is <something> that is true only when program is running ?
[21:25:23] <bricofoy> ok
[21:25:38] <bricofoy> rsponse before the question
[21:25:40] <bricofoy> great :)
[21:26:11] <SWPadnos> we aim to please
[21:26:57] <micges> bricofoy: halui.program.is-paused I think
[21:27:12] <bricofoy> okay this may be better
[21:27:33] <SWPadnos> oh, that's a good point. machine-on is true while paused
[21:27:43] <bricofoy> I found motion.enabled but this is always true if machine is ON
[21:27:49] <bricofoy> right
[21:29:25] <bricofoy> but how to use this ? I can't find the signal or pin in halmeter/halscope
[21:30:23] <SWPadnos> you're probably not using halui yet
[21:30:23] <micges> add [HAL]HALUI = halui
[21:30:31] <micges> to your ini file
[21:30:37] <bricofoy> okay
[21:30:41] <Spida> is there any good (german?) book on milling?
[21:31:15] <Spida> I guess I am still miessing a few basics and not even knowing the german slang for that isn't helpful...
[21:36:03] <bricofoy> ok, will work with halui.program.is-running
[21:36:32] <bricofoy> 'cause with program.is-paused I need to reverse the signal
[21:37:08] <bricofoy> using halui added a great number of useful pins :)
[21:37:10] <SWPadnos> you don't want to reverse it, you want to force it off
[21:37:15] <bricofoy> thanks ! :)
[21:37:27] <SWPadnos> which is what and2 will do
[21:37:33] <bricofoy> right
[21:38:08] <bricofoy> but with something that is TRUE when program is paused, will enable the output only when paused
[21:38:40] <SWPadnos> ah, you want to invert is-paused, or possibly use is-running (if it exists :) )
[21:38:48] <bricofoy> with something that is true when programm running, will work the right way with and2
[21:38:56] <bricofoy> yes is-running exist
[21:39:03] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't want a pause somewhere that the glue gun is off to turn it on :)
[21:39:07] <bricofoy> I just monitored it with halscope :)
[21:39:41] <bricofoy> yeah, turn the glu on during a pause could be a great joke... but no :P
[21:40:17] <SWPadnos> is_running might actually be what you want, since that should only be true when the program is actually running (I hope :) ), but there are more ways to stop a program than pausing
[21:40:48] <bricofoy> yes, is running is true only when program runs
[21:41:01] <bricofoy> in fact
[21:41:12] <SWPadnos> oh good. it's well named then :)
[21:41:38] <bricofoy> I plan to have the "glue level is going low" switch to pause the program
[21:42:14] <bricofoy> to allow changing the glue tank before the flow stops itself
[21:42:37] <SWPadnos> ah yes, in that case halui will be most useful, since it can "press buttons" based on HAL inputs
[21:43:23] <bricofoy> and also I need the flow to stop if escape or pause is pressed to stop the program becaude there is a problem or anything
[21:43:44] <SWPadnos> that will happen with is-running
[21:43:47] <bricofoy> so, halui seems to really be what I wanted :)
[21:43:54] <bricofoy> yes right
[21:43:59] <bricofoy> I just tested this
[21:44:15] <SWPadnos> assuming that userspace isn't crashed or doing something else or anything - that's something to consider
[21:44:38] <bricofoy> right
[21:44:51] <SWPadnos> halui doesn't run in the realtime kernel - just something to keep in mind
[21:44:58] <bricofoy> wow
[21:45:01] <bricofoy> this is anoying
[21:46:54] <bricofoy> no ways to have something similar to halui.program.is-running and halui.program-pause but realtime ?
[21:47:05] <bricofoy> I only need these two pins, in fact
[21:47:41] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure offhand. they would be part of the motion controller if they're there at all
[21:48:32] <bricofoy> well, axis have some way to talk to the motion controller to pause the program, so ther may be a pin to do it, no ?
[21:49:15] <SWPadnos> no
[21:49:33] <SWPadnos> most user control is done through NML messages, which are passed between user and realtime code
[21:49:39] <SWPadnos> or over a network, etc
[21:49:46] <SWPadnos> axis is also not realtime
[21:49:57] <SWPadnos> none of the user interfaces are realtime
[21:50:34] <bricofoy> so let's hope halui will be reactice enough to do the job :/
[21:50:41] <bricofoy> reactive
[21:51:15] <bricofoy> I will try this tomorow, it midnight here
[21:51:22] <bricofoy> lunch time, so :)
[21:51:26] <SWPadnos> ah. good night :)
[21:51:29] <micges> bricofoy: I use halui to jog XY axes, it works fine
[21:51:50] <bricofoy> thanks :)
[23:05:36] <morfic> hm, interesting drives, they take up to +-12V, you can set it to +-6V too, i guess this is pretty standard in 2010, just new to me to actually have a manual/pdf for stuff
[23:10:16] <pfred1> its official I am hard pressed to draw a straight line when it comes to CAD
[23:12:13] <morfic> maybe because paint.net isn't a CAD app?
[23:12:48] <pfred1> heck I wasn't even doing too good with the gimp
[23:13:42] <morfic> i still think gimp has one of the worst project names :)
[23:15:34] <celeron55> well, it's a trivial acronym, at least
[23:17:52] <pfred1> what should they have called it?