#emc | Logs for 2010-05-14

[00:07:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: You are woman
[00:08:09] <pfred1> Jymmm I fixed my messed up motor driver too
[00:08:22] <Jymmm> cool
[00:08:24] <pfred1> Jymmm man what was wrong with it I still can't get over it
[00:09:09] <pfred1> Jymmm the IC has 3 grounds 2 for the high side one for the logic and the noise from the high side was messing up the logic side I just rerouted the logic ground and it fixed it
[00:11:07] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[00:21:04] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:21:47] <ries> hey guys, where can I find the manual of the new tooledit program?
[00:21:48] <Jymmm> shielding is alwasy a good thing
[00:22:07] <pfred1> Jymmm nah it wasn't even that was just chain of order
[00:22:19] <Jymmm> ah
[00:22:46] <pfred1> Jymmm when I hooked up the 3 grounds I put the signal one last and it didn't appreciate that
[00:22:58] <pfred1> Jymmm by like a stinking 1/8th of an inch!
[00:23:25] <pfred1> Jymmm like i said I still can't get over that it made such a dramatic difference
[00:26:42] <Jymmm> noise lil bugger it seems
[00:26:45] <Jymmm> noisy
[00:27:14] <pfred1> all PWM stepper motor drivers are
[00:27:29] <pfred1> its a good thing no one listens to radio anymore
[00:53:26] <Valen> well not AM anyway
[00:54:31] <pfred1> I don't think anyone speaks english here anymore on the AM band I think its some sort of new regulation or something
[00:56:17] <Valen> we have our public radio on AM, kinda sucks I'm right on the fringe for reception in my car
[00:56:44] <Valen> found out though that plugging in a USB charger makes my radio reception much worse
[00:56:49] <Valen> its the cable that does it
[00:56:55] <Valen> not the charger itself
[00:57:17] <pfred1> I met Janis Joplin's old manager and he was making these devices called Sound Senders for car radios
[00:57:37] <pfred1> they sort of looked like car chargers
[00:58:25] <pfred1> his big line was, "I made a million, and I spent it too!"
[00:59:51] <Valen> what did they do?
[01:01:17] <pfred1> Valen they managed janis Joplin for one
[01:01:32] <Valen> i meant Sound Senders
[01:01:50] <pfred1> Valen oh you plugged them into say a walkman then into that and yo ucould pick it up on yoru car radio
[01:02:18] <pfred1> Valen so it in effect made your car's wiring into a local antenna
[01:07:09] <Valen> ahh those things
[01:07:21] <Valen> I like the ones you can just plug a usb stick full of mp3's into
[01:13:08] <pfred1> this was years ago
[01:13:18] <tom3p> i hacked the car radio so i can plug in my treo 650 cell phone to play recorded bbc programs, and my ipaq to read text files from gutenberg
[01:13:37] <Valen> I want to build a car computer into my dash
[01:13:46] <Valen> so i can listen to podcasts and the like easily
[01:13:47] <pfred1> tom3p when all you really needed was a Sound Sender!
[01:13:59] <tom3p> or a 29 cent jack
[01:14:30] <pfred1> tom3p I think his whole business model was based on the simple fact that most cars don't have that 29 cent jack
[01:15:02] <Valen> I was going to hack one of those into mine ;->
[01:15:14] <pfred1> tom3p by the looks of his beat to death jag I'm not so sure things were going all that well for him really
[01:16:07] <tom3p> its just a rcvr and and amp, use the amp (heh i'm moving my hack from the now dead 91 honda wagon to the 87 honda wagon... no jaguar fer me :P
[01:16:47] <pfred1> tom3p his had more the memory of paint than an actual paint job
[01:38:33] <ries> hey All, in this example : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G1:-Linear-Motion the subroutine states : O100 sub (subroutine to move to machine home)
[01:38:55] <ries> Shouldn't that be : O100 sub (subroutine to move to touchoff position)
[01:41:12] <ries> sorry, this is the right link : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#r3_1
[01:42:49] <pfred1> I'm not really looking forward to ever finishing my mahcine and actually having to use it I don't think
[01:43:10] <pfred1> G Code doesn't look all that fun to me really
[01:44:14] <ries> pfred1: it's not that bad really, specially if you have a proper CAM program
[01:44:54] <pfred1> ries yeah so far I'm not really seeing one of those
[01:45:13] <pfred1> ries they all seem to run on Windows to me
[01:45:32] <ries> pfred1: for most simple 2D stuff I use dxf2gcode
[01:45:39] <ries> circles and lines and such
[01:46:18] <pfred1> ries I'll have to give it a look when I get that far along
[01:46:19] <ries> Don't expect anything to run on Linux very well, however there is heekscad for 3D that is progressing quite nice
[01:47:17] <ries> pfred1: but, it all depends what sort of work you are doing...
[01:47:17] <pfred1> ries I see no applications for 3D stuff for me
[01:47:44] <pfred1> ries really all i want is just a plotter to lay down resist for PCBs I design
[01:47:51] <ries> you mean, you don't know any 3D apps, or you only work in 2D?
[01:48:05] <pfred1> ries I mean I have no use for 3D
[01:48:09] <ries> ok
[01:48:22] <ries> Eagle CAD has a working gcode generator (third party)
[01:48:51] <pfred1> ries I'd like something that could just draw like from a PDF or something
[01:49:05] <ries> I think there is also a hpgl to gcode tool (open source) if you need something that looks like a pen plotter
[01:49:19] <pfred1> ries that would be perfect!
[01:50:03] <pfred1> ries most I'd ever want to do would be 2D relief carving maybe someday
[01:50:16] <ries> if you are handy with software you could create a printer driver in cups that passes the hpgl from your CAD to gcode and sends that to emc
[01:50:40] <pfred1> I can easily see myself becomming handy
[01:51:11] <pfred1> but like i said I'm not looking forward to the software aspect of this project nearly as much as I have been with the hardware side of it all
[01:51:31] <ries> http://www.gnu.org/software/hp2xx/hp2xx.html
[01:51:54] <pfred1> I've looked at a lot of CNC projects and while i see a lot of people building machines I don't see nearly so many doing much with them once they're built
[01:52:31] <pfred1> just something I've noticed in my research
[01:52:46] <pfred1> ries thanks for the link copied here
[01:53:22] <pfred1> though i do see lots of people on like their third machine build and whatnot
[01:53:25] <ries> pfred1: you see a lot of hobbiest blogging and stuff, the professionals make then but don't blog about it ;)
[01:53:30] <ries> well.. I think it's like that
[01:53:58] <pfred1> well I'm firmly in the hobbyest camp here
[01:54:06] <ries> I build one woodworking rooter, and using it.. it's a solid build, when turned on it works... not fiddling around with wires and stuff, I hate that!
[01:54:14] <pfred1> I'm just doing this because there's nothing I like to watch on TV
[01:54:36] <ries> I am also a hobbiest, but I think/hope with a pro method ow thinking...
[01:54:43] <pfred1> see its the electronics thats my favorite part
[01:55:06] <ries> I kept that portion as simple as possible ;)
[01:55:13] <pfred1> I like to make machines too but I don't know whith theis CNC yet I'm sure I'll have some fabbing fun with it
[01:55:44] <pfred1> but mostly I'm expecting it to be a fiddling annoyance
[01:56:07] <ries> this is my machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BYY1KDiFZY (it has a new router now)
[01:56:34] <ries> if you build a good CNC router (mill type) then it's a good way up making more stuff with it
[01:57:25] <pfred1> how many IPM?
[01:58:33] <ries> I think in mm :D
[01:58:50] <pfred1> we tried metric here it didn't go over too big
[01:58:51] <ries> I never really tested it... but I think I tried 20000mm/minute once
[01:59:08] <MattyMatt> machine speeds are always IPM, like penis sizes :)
[01:59:11] <pfred1> it lasted until we all had to go to the gas pumps to fill up our cars
[01:59:33] <pfred1> no one liked billing 25 gallon tanks in liters I'm afraid ;)
[01:59:35] <ries> MattyMatt: hehehe I measure that in feet actually...
[01:59:38] <pfred1> filling even
[01:59:43] <MattyMatt> that's when you know you've gone metric, when you measure your dick in cm
[02:00:12] <pfred1> that must have been on 1975?
[02:00:26] <pfred1> the USA went metric for about a week and a half
[02:01:00] <MattyMatt> I read that we went metric officially in 1890-odd
[02:01:28] <pfred1> MattyMatt until someone else manages to get there it still is 250,000 miles to the Moon
[02:01:44] <MattyMatt> we've started buying petrol in litres, but that's only cos we can't afford a whole gallon these days
[02:02:03] <MattyMatt> is that nautical or statute?
[02:02:28] <pfred1> MattyMatt its not kilometers thats for sure!
[02:02:33] <ries> can't be nautical with that little bit of watter between the eurth and the moon
[02:03:04] <pfred1> MattyMatt when we destroy other countries we do it by clicks though
[02:03:19] <DaViruz> funnily enough nasa is 100% metric
[02:03:28] <DaViruz> and they still managed to get to the moon, imagine that
[02:03:38] <pfred1> DaViruz tell it to the guy who programmed the mars lander
[02:04:36] <DaViruz> no i think i will
[02:04:44] <DaViruz> err, no i don't think i will
[02:04:49] <MattyMatt> that mars orbiter that crashed was a conversion from NM to km, when it should have been Statute to km, or vice versa
[02:05:21] <MattyMatt> so it wasn't metrication that caused the crash, it was the choice of types of mile
[02:05:37] <pfred1> ever since i got some digital calipers I've been using metric a little more when it works
[02:05:54] <pfred1> being as all I have to do is hit a button and it spits out metric for me
[02:06:12] <MattyMatt> USNavy do all their part in NM, of course
[02:06:25] <DaViruz> MattyMatt: NM as in nautical miles?
[02:06:28] <MattyMatt> yep
[02:06:38] <MattyMatt> 1920m iirc
[02:06:49] <pfred1> MattyMatt they don't even range guns in metric?
[02:06:53] <DaViruz> NM actually make a lot of sense in navigation (on earth)
[02:07:04] <DaViruz> not so much anywhere else
[02:07:12] <MattyMatt> no more than metric
[02:07:15] <pfred1> yeah being as the entire metric system is based on a flawwed measurement of the Earth
[02:07:16] <ries> I couldn't never understand why there are 12 inches in a foot, while even in the US everybody counts till tell
[02:07:42] <MattyMatt> they are both diameters of the Earth. metric around the poles, NM around the equator
[02:07:44] <DaViruz> 1852m, btw
[02:08:01] <pfred1> MattyMatt but the metric measurement is wrong
[02:08:20] <MattyMatt> so is the NM
[02:08:29] <pfred1> MattyMatt but I don't boat
[02:08:29] <MattyMatt> but by less probably :)
[02:09:03] <DaViruz> wrong how so?
[02:09:16] <pfred1> DaViruz they just got it wrong
[02:09:18] <DaViruz> the accepted standard is 1852m
[02:09:26] <pfred1> DaViruz they said it was one thing turns out it was another
[02:09:27] <DaViruz> which is more accurate than the size of the earth
[02:09:33] <MattyMatt> ah, so NM are metricated too now? :)
[02:10:07] <DaViruz> the nautical mile is defined as one arcminute at the earth periphery
[02:10:08] <pfred1> DaViruz but by the time they found out it was wrong it was too late to change things so they just went with it
[02:10:26] <DaViruz> eh?
[02:10:36] <DaViruz> and what would this flawed value be?
[02:10:51] <MattyMatt> DaViruz, is it tho? what if the earth gets bigger? does the NM still change?
[02:10:55] <pfred1> whatever it is they call a meter today
[02:11:19] <pfred1> which i think they use some wavelength of light to determine now
[02:11:47] <MattyMatt> rubidium laser, isn't it?
[02:11:50] <Valen> its a bout eleventybillion wavelengths of a paticular red laser
[02:11:52] <Valen> yeah
[02:11:53] <DaViruz> well, the definition is arbitrary anyway
[02:12:05] <DaViruz> it doesn't really matter if it's off as long as it's consistant
[02:12:54] <Valen> thats why its done that way, its easy to replicate, all metric measurements other than the kg are based on that kind of measurement,
[02:13:01] <MattyMatt> they are attempting to redefine the kg as a finite number of atoms of platinum, instead of the arbitrary lump in Paris
[02:13:03] <Valen> the kg still has a "master kg"
[02:13:03] <pfred1> in any event standard measurements evolved over a long period of time in order to fit human needs
[02:13:14] <Valen> MattyMatt, its silicon they are using
[02:13:23] <pfred1> metric is great for science i suppose but even then maybe it'd pay if more people thought a bit more
[02:13:48] <Valen> metric is great for everybody who isn't american ;-P
[02:14:14] <pfred1> Valen well that'd make it the #2 standard then now wouldn't it?
[02:14:31] <Valen> lol, cant half tell where your from
[02:14:45] <MattyMatt> imperial is more beautiful
[02:15:01] <pfred1> MattyMatt it took hundreds of years to refine
[02:15:02] <Valen> your getting metricised anyway, all the cars etc that you import are metric
[02:15:22] <MattyMatt> a house built in feet still looks better than a metric one
[02:15:27] <pfred1> yeah and metric hardware is for the birds good thing cars are disposable today
[02:15:40] <Valen> and your aeroplanes
[02:15:47] <Valen> space
[02:15:49] <Valen> military
[02:15:58] <Valen> you know all the important stuff ;->
[02:16:06] <MattyMatt> nanotech
[02:16:26] <MattyMatt> I don't think anyone uses nanoinches
[02:16:35] <Valen> very metric well kinda
[02:16:40] <pfred1> if its not a 63 split windowvetter or maybe an AC CObera then its not all that important to me really
[02:16:41] <Valen> they are probably full of angstroms
[02:17:01] <MattyMatt> angstrom = 0.1nm
[02:17:23] <DaViruz> ångström :-(
[02:17:34] <pfred1> I wonder if gull winged Mervedes are metric?
[02:17:43] <MattyMatt> my norge keyb is broke
[02:17:44] <pfred1> about the only foreign car I like
[02:17:46] <DaViruz> (it's a little easier to write on a swedish keyboard)
[02:17:50] <DaViruz> norge?!
[02:17:55] <MattyMatt> I can't even type a pound sign atm :)
[02:17:59] <DaViruz> thats the highest insult imagineable ;)
[02:18:06] <MattyMatt> norvege
[02:18:40] <MattyMatt> ah, A-with-a-o N'Gstrom was swedish? not korean?
[02:18:43] <DaViruz> ångström was swedish and so am i, and we don't particularly like the norwegians ;)
[02:18:48] <pfred1> I know my Volvo is all standard hardware
[02:19:40] <DaViruz> is it a volvo amazon circa 1966? i believe that was the last volvo to use imperial fasteners
[02:19:43] <DaViruz> (at least here)
[02:19:56] <pfred1> yes it is a 1966 P1800S
[02:20:30] <DaViruz> oh
[02:20:33] <pfred1> though i have owned up to 1974 Volvos and they were mixes
[02:20:58] <pfred1> mostly standards with a few metric pieces of crap thrown in here and there to keep it interesting I suppose
[02:21:35] <pfred1> but thats why us ignorant Americans invented Vise Grips I suppose!
[02:22:27] <pfred1> I broke down and bought a metric set of tools
[02:23:05] <pfred1> us Americans think metric was a plot designed by tool manufacturers to make you buy more tools
[02:23:36] <pfred1> when that ran its course they released torx and some other whacky fastening systems
[02:24:10] <DaViruz> i like torx, but i don't like the arbitrary sizing system
[02:24:37] <pfred1> DaViruz I like the fact that i have sets of tools to deal with them now its easier than slotting them
[02:25:29] <MattyMatt> both sets of sizes gives you handy inbetweens. you don't need to buy specific weird drill sizes for tapped holes so often
[02:26:06] <DaViruz> when i removed the infrared filter in my camera i found a screw that had a torx head, about half the size of a T5
[02:26:22] <pfred1> a T 2.5 ?
[02:26:27] <DaViruz> possibly :)
[02:26:30] <DaViruz> never found one though
[02:26:51] <pfred1> I'd hazard a guess that about 90% of Torx is T5
[02:26:51] <MattyMatt> I have one, in a massive set of hex bits
[02:27:40] <pfred1> just like 90% of metric hardware has a 10mm head on it too
[02:27:46] <DaViruz> i don't think the size numbers correspond to physical dimensions though
[02:27:52] <DaViruz> a T40 is way more then 4 times a T10
[02:28:10] <pfred1> it took me years of flea marketing to finally lay my hands on a 10mm combination wrench
[02:28:19] <DaViruz> reminds me of AWG and similar wacky stuff
[02:28:33] <DaViruz> where someone pretty much pulled some numbers out of his ass
[02:28:53] <pfred1> if you research wire guage it does make sense how they did it
[02:29:04] <DaViruz> not to me it doesn't
[02:29:12] <pfred1> its a cross section of circles
[02:29:38] <pfred1> has to do with wire carrying ampacity
[02:30:19] <pfred1> if you're buying wire to carry electricity then it makes a lot of sense
[02:30:22] <DaViruz> i know that it (inversely) corresponds to cross sectional area
[02:30:43] <DaViruz> but it's still pretty much arbitrary
[02:31:27] <DaViruz> i mean, have a look at the formula for converting between awg and square inch
[02:31:27] <MattyMatt> "In 1957, the easy release lever was added to the pliers"
[02:31:28] <DaViruz> http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/1/f/01f2a8866588007b257186f3fb14878d.png
[02:31:31] <DaViruz> holy crap! :)
[02:31:43] <MattyMatt> aha, that's the bit that makes a Mole Wrench british
[02:31:59] <pfred1> DaViruz I guess before that you just smacked them with a hammer if you ever wanted to get them off?
[02:32:45] <MattyMatt> or welded them into the Liberty Ship, according to this :)
[02:32:58] <DaViruz> :D
[02:33:38] <DaViruz> oh dear, we clamped 4000 locking pliers into our ship and now we have no means to get them off
[02:33:52] <pfred1> MattyMatt must have been the ones that didn't split in half during a passage
[02:37:03] <MattyMatt> I got one with this arc welder. I'd never use one on a nut, of course :)
[02:37:30] <MattyMatt> except in emergencies
[02:37:47] <pfred1> like when said nut has rusted down to an indetermninate size?
[02:37:52] <MattyMatt> like, it emerges I don't have the right spanner
[02:38:15] <pfred1> trust me there's tons of times when vise grip is THE size
[02:38:21] <MattyMatt> :)
[02:38:47] <pfred1> what size is it? it's Vise Grip size!
[02:39:17] <pfred1> anymore i try to keep the grips i burn separate fro mthe ones i don't but its hard you know?
[02:40:00] <pfred1> once i tried to count all of my vise grips I lost count at 33 pairs
[02:40:02] <MattyMatt> it would need one more lever for a stepper to open and close it, I think
[02:40:21] <pfred1> more kept turning up here and there
[02:40:44] <MattyMatt> have you got all the fancy welding jaw shapes?
[02:40:53] <pfred1> most of them yeah
[02:41:00] <pfred1> including a 24 SP
[02:41:34] <pfred1> most bizarre vise grips I think i have is special hose clamping pair
[02:41:53] <pfred1> made to put crimps onto welding hoses
[02:43:03] <MattyMatt> it's probably part of a welder's apprentice's training these days, making your own custom vise grips
[02:43:26] <pfred1> yeah I brazed nuts onto the swivel pads of my 24s
[02:43:37] <pfred1> so I can put bolts in them and have more throat
[02:44:14] <pfred1> though its rare they don't have enough throat to do a job
[02:46:47] <MattyMatt> as a robot hand, I suppose hydraulic would be the only sensible way to drive it
[02:47:14] <MattyMatt> with a geared stepper for the adjuster maybe
[02:47:37] <pfred1> hydraulic is self adjusting
[02:48:07] <pfred1> MattyMatt hydraulic is very shall I say fluid in that respect ;)
[02:48:35] <MattyMatt> the geometry of the wrench changes
[02:48:54] <DaViruz> i love my self adjusting vise grips
[02:49:12] <DaViruz> there is an adjustment screw but it adjusts clamping force and not clamping width
[02:49:40] <pfred1> sometimes when i lock grips on you can play a tune on them they're so tight
[02:50:15] <MattyMatt> he shoulda called them Crab Hands
[02:50:40] <pfred1> I have knock offs but nothing beats the real thing
[02:51:39] <MattyMatt> In 2008, the original Vise-Grip manufacturing plant in Dewitt, Nebraska, closed when the parent company moved production to China.
[02:52:06] <pfred1> all my grips are pre 2000
[02:52:30] <MattyMatt> treasure them
[02:52:43] <pfred1> I donno some get mightly abused
[02:52:54] <MattyMatt> :)
[02:52:57] <pfred1> the poor little needle nosed they take it the worst
[02:53:23] <MattyMatt> I broke the ones I got from Tandy
[02:53:26] <pfred1> always doing stuff with them I know i shouldn't
[02:54:09] <pfred1> but that is sad vise grips are made in china now
[02:54:20] <pfred1> I'll know not to ever buy any new ones
[02:54:37] <MattyMatt> ah it's all made with our steel still :)
[02:54:59] <MattyMatt> our = "Western"
[02:55:02] <pfred1> I'm trying not to encourage the chinese any more than I absolutely have to
[02:55:24] <pfred1> for some stuff I don't seem to have a choice today
[02:55:39] <pfred1> like shoes i mean just try not to buy imported shoes its impossible!
[02:55:57] <pfred1> I mean you can but be real
[02:56:15] <pfred1> I can't go dig ditches in $400 footwear
[02:56:17] <MattyMatt> who wants to pay US shoemaker's rates? :)
[02:56:57] <pfred1> though my red wings are some mean boots
[02:57:28] <MattyMatt> free market is cool. it encourages us to innovate and automate, while their labour costs creep up to match ours
[02:57:56] <pfred1> people say the days of cheap chinese goods are over now
[02:57:59] <MattyMatt> universal consumerism
[02:58:18] <pfred1> though their quality is still as low as it ever has been
[02:59:02] <MattyMatt> I think the quality has got better in the last few years, it's as good as the last crappy british made stuff now
[02:59:35] <pfred1> I stopped getting their stuff a number of years ago now so I don't know what it is lately
[02:59:38] <MattyMatt> the british stuff got bad at the end. 100 year old equipment & designs
[02:59:50] <MattyMatt> way overpriced
[03:00:10] <pfred1> I try to buy used
[03:00:49] <MattyMatt> 1970s british manufacturing commited suicide
[03:00:52] <pfred1> I just got a metal cased b&D polisher here I still need to refurbish
[03:01:29] <pfred1> and this afternoon I cleaned up and clated a 5" USA C clamp I bought for 50 cents at a flea market
[03:01:35] <pfred1> coated even
[03:01:48] <pfred1> can the chinese compete with 50 cents?
[03:02:01] <MattyMatt> if you want 4 the same
[03:02:09] <MattyMatt> they come close
[03:02:38] <pfred1> maybe 4 2" ones that bend when you tighten them
[03:02:47] <MattyMatt> mm preload
[03:03:30] <MattyMatt> I want one of those japanese saws, or I want to mod a straight bladed one into one
[03:03:33] <pfred1> but i got so much crap now I don't really need anything anymore
[03:04:05] <pfred1> so I can randomly purchase nice stuff used when i find it
[03:04:37] <MattyMatt> yeah I wish I had a permanent home. I always lose stuff when moving
[03:04:54] <MattyMatt> tools in transit = ooh look, free tools
[03:04:59] <pfred1> I moved a couple of years ago and it took me like 4 years to move all of my crap
[03:06:14] <pfred1> next time i move I will sell it all I think
[03:06:46] <pfred1> or just heavily insure and flip a match int othe mess
[03:06:53] <MattyMatt> not putting down roots there then?
[03:07:13] <pfred1> I don't think I'll stay where I'm at now forever no
[03:07:47] <pfred1> I can well see when markets change selling and going somewhere else
[03:08:12] <pfred1> I could stand to make a tidy sum
[03:08:50] <MattyMatt> 4 houses on the land would fetch a better total
[03:09:03] <pfred1> can't
[03:09:24] <pfred1> only in very special circumstances do they even let you build one other
[03:09:37] <MattyMatt> damned planners
[03:09:46] <pfred1> someone has to be sick in the family and you're caring for them or some crap
[03:09:50] <MattyMatt> they are the people keeping me homeless
[03:10:21] <pfred1> well if it wasn't like that this place would be one huge trailer park
[03:10:28] <MattyMatt> next time I have money, I'm buying an acre of farming land, and I'll squat on it
[03:10:38] <MattyMatt> live in a trailer or sth
[03:10:43] <pfred1> see?
[03:11:01] <MattyMatt> better than living @ momma's :)
[03:11:11] <pfred1> so I'm sort of glad for the rule it keeps my property values high
[03:11:34] <MattyMatt> yep, the landowning classes :)
[03:11:50] <MattyMatt> they forget they are a minority, sometimes
[03:12:10] <MattyMatt> J'accuse!
[03:12:18] <pfred1> land is the only thing really worth buying
[03:12:26] <MattyMatt> yep
[03:12:28] <pfred1> everything else is so much junk
[03:12:38] <MattyMatt> everything else burns
[03:12:59] <MattyMatt> or breaks, if it's a graphite crucible
[03:13:31] <pfred1> I made my crucible out of a cut off oxidizer cylinder
[03:13:50] <pfred1> I only do aluminum though
[03:13:58] <MattyMatt> iron drainpipe works too, I read
[03:14:18] <pfred1> heck I saw one kid he used a paint can
[03:14:27] <pfred1> he said it worked for a melt too
[03:14:36] <pfred1> though it did eventually burn out for him
[03:16:11] <pfred1> I want to get back to casting but I've been so consumed by this CNC nonsense lately
[03:16:19] <pfred1> I just want ot get it done is all
[03:16:42] <MattyMatt> buying the chinese board saved tons of time
[03:17:03] <MattyMatt> buying some software would get me going now too :)
[03:17:09] <pfred1> well I started this project a long time ago and a big part of it was making the electronics
[03:17:11] <MattyMatt> that's where I waste all my time
[03:17:38] <pfred1> turns out I started like 10 years ago
[03:17:44] <ries> /action just bought a PMDX122 and gecko's ...
[03:17:46] <pfred1> though I put it aside for other things
[03:18:04] <MattyMatt> I only started last september, and the machine mills, so I haven't done too badly
[03:18:41] <pfred1> ries your machine looks like it cost you some money
[03:19:03] <ries> I wasn't in for teh cheap....true
[03:19:14] <ries> 3.8K my wife calculated one day..
[03:19:28] <pfred1> thats not bad
[03:19:41] <pfred1> the one guy here blew like 9 grand on similar
[03:19:50] <ries> considering teh state it is in and how it works I think it's a good deal
[03:20:03] <pfred1> yeah it looks to run well
[03:20:30] <pfred1> though again all I've seen you make is the SMC demo logo on it :)
[03:20:34] <pfred1> EMC even
[03:20:37] <ries> I would hate to see a machine like this (or any machine) fail because of electronics are bad
[03:21:01] <pfred1> see that woudn't bother me because i can fix electronics
[03:21:01] <ries> I did buy cheap stepper motors (50usd each) and racks/pinions came from japan...
[03:21:38] <pfred1> japanese stuff is top notch
[03:21:41] <ries> pfred1: I can fix electronics to, I just don't have teh tools here to build a good stepper motor driver
[03:22:31] <pfred1> well what I'm making now is no geckos but i can save that for an upgrade down the road
[03:22:49] <pfred1> making better motor drivers that is
[03:23:02] <ries> when I think if it.... the 4 gecko's I bough consume 25% of teh machine's price :s... I could have gone cheaper with chineese drivers...
[03:23:03] <MattyMatt> TB6560 isn't too shabby
[03:23:29] <pfred1> ah the voltage limit is really a performance hold back
[03:23:31] <MattyMatt> in my limited experience
[03:23:40] <pfred1> I hear they can't evne withstand 32 volts
[03:24:42] <pfred1> ries how much did those drivers cost you?
[03:24:43] <MattyMatt> that reminds me, gotta order a 24V supply
[03:25:06] <pfred1> MattyMatt not all stepepr stuff plays nice nice with switching power supplies
[03:25:17] <MattyMatt> I would have got 36V if they'd had one, but the next one up is 48V :)
[03:25:18] <ries> pfred1: don't remember, the 25% (might be a bit less) was including import costs into Ecuador
[03:25:31] <ries> unfortunatly I am blessed with corrupted customs
[03:26:00] <pfred1> MattyMatt I don't think TB6560s can handle 36 volts
[03:26:07] <ries> pfred1: I run the gecko's at 60VDC and the steppers are set to 4Amp
[03:26:29] <MattyMatt> they claim to be able, but 24V is about my speed. I'm going in oincrements while I lean
[03:26:43] <ries> pfred1: I think the 203v where 120usd each, I bought 4 and paid 200usd (I think) import over them
[03:26:52] <pfred1> MattyMatt no they claim a max of 40 but that includes genrated back EMF
[03:26:54] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt is bacon pig?
[03:28:02] <pfred1> ries yeah I'm just doing this for something to do so I can't really justify that sort of spending here
[03:28:03] <MattyMatt> If I get lucky with a fat 50Hz transformer, I'll get it, obviously
[03:28:41] <pfred1> MattyMatt my motors while rated at 2 amps and I've set my drivers up for that don't really consume all that much
[03:28:53] <pfred1> MattyMatt more like an amp a piece
[03:29:18] <pfred1> and the faster you driver a stepper the less power it consumes too!
[03:29:31] <pfred1> which is why steppers all conk out eventually
[03:29:43] <pfred1> they just don't draw enough to keep on running
[03:29:47] <ries> pfred1: no matter, it's always good fun... I made my first pen plotter 18 years ago and made all electronics myself..
[03:30:55] <pfred1> 18 years ago must have been after i made my breadboard computer
[03:31:27] <pfred1> it never did much cept light up 7 segment LEDs
[03:31:38] <MattyMatt> I've got a choice of 3 materials in this script. Wood, Metal and Plastic
[03:32:06] <MattyMatt> somebody else can make a database for more :)
[03:32:11] <pfred1> for me metal is ferrous and non
[03:32:40] <ries> this I don't understand : http://www.hexkeycnc.com/buynow.html a baby mill that can mill plastic for 2.2K USD :
[03:32:43] <pfred1> I've personally machined some woods that had a bit more to them than most aluminums do
[03:33:08] <ries> pfred1: did teh same with a Z80 CPU... all hand coded on a little keyboard...
[03:33:09] <pfred1> ries oh thats easy everybody loves money
[03:33:26] <pfred1> yes mine was Z-80 based as well
[03:33:48] <ries> nice time it was.. writing assembly.......
[03:33:50] <MattyMatt> thk slides. that probably counts as a precision machine
[03:33:55] <ries> \action dreams about the good old times
[03:34:20] <pfred1> only good thing about it was I was a lot younger then
[03:34:24] <ries> * ries forget's about the right action forward slashes :D
[03:34:33] <pfred1> try /me
[03:34:41] <MattyMatt> I never saw the point in the Z80 io chips though. the DMA etc
[03:35:33] <pfred1> buffers
[03:36:04] <pfred1> in the end that is basically what my "computer" was was a Z-80 weith data latcheso n it
[03:36:19] <MattyMatt> I was resistant to pre-emptive multitasking for years. I made a RTOS on Z80 and then on M68K
[03:36:24] <pfred1> thats all it really boiled down to
[03:36:51] <pfred1> I can see that now but at the time it seemed more involved
[03:37:38] <MattyMatt> hooking up dram to a bus is still poorly understood by 5V guys
[03:37:43] <pfred1> you got to control the flow
[03:38:10] <pfred1> I used static
[03:38:37] <pfred1> I made my own eeprom programmer for the bios too
[03:39:13] <MattyMatt> I had the circuit diagram for the TRS-80 model 1. that helped
[03:39:23] <pfred1> I couldn't deal with hand stepping 100 times through code to burn a regular eprom
[03:40:08] <MattyMatt> I got a chinese eprom programmer a few months back on ebay :) when I was thinking of using printer boards intact
[03:40:33] <ries> be back later guys
[03:40:35] <MattyMatt> I always wanted one, but I haven't plugged it in yet
[03:40:42] <pfred1> being as i had no computer I don't think a plug in programmer would have done me much good at the time
[03:41:20] <MattyMatt> the softy was nice. it had a keypad and its own cpu&ram
[03:42:34] <MattyMatt> the latest incarnation of that is still standard in UK industry, at several hundred gbp
[03:42:55] <pfred1> thats why I like to build electronics I can make stuff I'd never spend the money on
[03:43:14] <pfred1> well that and I just like doing it
[03:43:20] <pfred1> always have
[03:43:25] <MattyMatt> yeah, the wave of chinese makes it hard to compete in most areas tho
[03:43:50] <pfred1> well my motor drivers cost me $10 a piece but they do take me a while to make
[03:43:54] <MattyMatt> but it's getting worthwhile again now you can get fpga etc
[03:44:09] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[03:44:21] <pfred1> and from what I've heard about the chinese boards not all of them are all that swift
[03:44:33] <pfred1> they seem to vary in reliability and durability
[03:44:50] <MattyMatt> naturally, that's mass production
[03:45:04] <pfred1> well I think some are different designs
[03:45:47] <MattyMatt> my spindle had a dry joint. that was sold to me by a british company
[03:45:59] <pfred1> my drivers I set my parameters and I think i met them
[03:46:25] <MattyMatt> "think of it as a kit of parts" like that article about chinese lathes says :)
[03:46:53] <pfred1> well I bought parts cheaper
[03:47:22] <MattyMatt> yeah it gets very worthwhile when you make 25
[03:47:27] <pfred1> the TB6560s themselves are only $4.73 a piece
[03:47:53] <pfred1> then the next most expensive part i used was the opto they were like 50 cents a piece
[03:48:10] <pfred1> some of the other junk i had lying around
[03:48:41] <pfred1> like if i had to buy the isolation strips I'd have been sunk but i have a couple packs of them
[03:48:47] <MattyMatt> my optos are in sockets. that seems a bit unnecessary
[03:49:00] <pfred1> no it makes sense if you blow one easy to change
[03:49:23] <pfred1> you don't solder light bulbs into your sockets do you?
[03:49:30] <MattyMatt> only a short to the board could do that
[03:49:41] <MattyMatt> I don't put LEDs in sockets
[03:49:55] <pfred1> even then people don't solder them in
[03:50:23] <pfred1> I have to stock up on light bulbs
[03:50:30] <pfred1> I hear they're goingto try phasingthem out here
[03:50:44] <MattyMatt> I prefer CFL
[03:50:55] <pfred1> not me I don't like the light
[03:51:43] <MattyMatt> I should try 100W of CFL
[03:51:44] <pfred1> its OK for area lighthing but not work lighting
[03:51:53] <MattyMatt> that's 9 of the bulbs I use
[03:52:21] <pfred1> on the ceiling in my garage i have 4 twin 8 footers
[03:52:35] <pfred1> which translates into 600 watts of fluro
[03:53:03] <pfred1> you can literally tan in here when i flip it on
[03:53:07] <MattyMatt> you can convert those to HF, which doubles their efficiency
[03:53:21] <MattyMatt> and makes the light much nicer IMO
[03:53:27] <pfred1> they all have the electronic ballasts
[03:53:58] <pfred1> well I still need to do one
[03:54:21] <pfred1> but the ahole flipper i bought this place off of put the crappiest of the crap into the rest and I've changed them all out
[03:54:35] <pfred1> costs me like $60 a fixture when i do it
[03:54:43] <pfred1> bulbs and ballast
[03:55:20] <pfred1> nicest part is they come right on even i nthe cold
[03:55:33] <pfred1> no warmup period
[03:55:57] <MattyMatt> yep
[03:56:18] <pfred1> but really i mean come on how green is running 600 watts of lights?
[03:56:30] <MattyMatt> greenhouse green
[03:56:44] <pfred1> yeah i could grow dope in here to pay the lite bill i suppose
[03:57:08] <MattyMatt> 600W is one bulb, for that :)
[03:57:29] <pfred1> they use the metal haldite or whtever its called right?
[03:57:38] <pfred1> like street lights
[03:57:38] <MattyMatt> 2 kinds usually
[03:57:59] <MattyMatt> 2 types together gives the best spectrum
[03:58:50] <MattyMatt> yeah sodium vapour, like the not-so-yellow street lights
[03:59:16] <pfred1> last fixture i opted for cheaper bulbs because they had higher output but I don't like them they're a different spectrum than all the other bulbs i used
[03:59:36] <pfred1> next one i do I'm going back to the more expensive ones they're not that much more
[03:59:45] <pfred1> couple of bucks
[04:00:26] <pfred1> they're super harsh
[04:00:54] <MattyMatt> you only need a sliver of harsh, to see through a gap
[04:01:18] <MattyMatt> a surface plate could have a light slit built in
[04:01:20] <pfred1> well I learned my lesson being cheap
[04:01:39] <pfred1> I was at the store looking at all the bulbs going hey these are brighter and cheaper
[04:02:03] <pfred1> not thinking they were going to be so much harsher too
[04:02:25] <MattyMatt> spread them around. put one in each unit, so it makes a pattern
[04:02:40] <pfred1> nah I'm running all matched bulbs
[04:03:03] <pfred1> suposed to be better for the ballasts least thats what the ballast instructions said
[04:03:17] <MattyMatt> fair enough
[04:03:31] <pfred1> when i do them I'm up for new bulbs
[04:03:54] <pfred1> but like i said by the time i finish a fixture its about $60
[04:04:08] <MattyMatt> mill more mendels
[04:04:13] <pfred1> then I rarely even turn the things on its a bit much really
[04:04:23] <MattyMatt> that's my plan for $
[04:05:20] <pfred1> its not the money its just crazy when i turn the things on its like bright as noon time
[04:05:38] <pfred1> I should really add switches so I can turn them on and off in banks now its all or nothing
[04:05:38] <MattyMatt> that's good sometimes
[04:05:55] <MattyMatt> brighter where you're standing
[04:06:06] <MattyMatt> IR dtectors :)
[04:06:11] <pfred1> I hung some double 4s and I use those
[04:06:29] <pfred1> really only one of them
[04:06:32] <pfred1> I use
[04:06:54] <pfred1> that and i love arm lites
[04:07:11] <MattyMatt> it's the 21st century. voice operate it
[04:07:13] <pfred1> you know those lamps on the pantograph arms?
[04:07:29] <MattyMatt> anglepoise
[04:07:54] <pfred1> I must have a dozen of them scattered around I turn one on wherever I'm at
[04:08:32] <pfred1> and in those i like incandescant bulbs
[04:08:34] <MattyMatt> a voice operated anglepoise. now that'd be handy
[04:08:58] <MattyMatt> put it under the car and say "left a bit, right a bit"
[04:09:51] <MattyMatt> luxo
[04:13:53] <MattyMatt> right...blender script....coffee first
[04:14:33] <MattyMatt> I'm just fiddling with the GUI so far
[04:15:36] <MattyMatt> I've made all the panels rollup, so I can add new ones ad infinitum now
[04:16:47] <MattyMatt> no scrollbar yet so, ad bottom screenum for now
[04:31:57] <MattyMatt> I'm glad you're looking forward to the software side :) I started this to get away from writing software
[04:53:42] <pfred1> I'm just not good with software I'm a nuts and bolts sorta a guy I guess
[04:54:24] <pfred1> its just the part of the project I can see myself having the most troubles with
[05:18:02] <morficcell> morficcell is now known as morficmobile
[06:24:09] <MattyMatt> Moonshine Lubricants Inc http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-PINTS-SPINDLE-AND-WAY-OIL-LATHE-MILLING-MACHINE-/220604490776
[06:27:40] <MattyMatt> ah, it's named Mobil stuff, he didn't brew it up himself :)
[06:27:51] <MattyMatt> and it isn't chainsaw oil
[06:31:38] <pfred1> bar oil works for me
[06:31:52] <pfred1> and i always got a quart laying around too so ...
[06:32:37] <pfred1> and its a heck of al ot cheaper than that is too
[06:32:56] <pfred1> I think bar oil is like $2 a quart
[06:45:07] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[10:04:13] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:08:51] <MattyMatt> g'morning piasdom
[10:09:01] <MattyMatt> and all :)
[10:10:34] <MattyMatt> this blender script uses G41 as appropriate now \o/
[10:11:18] <MattyMatt> I haven't set up the tools properly in emc yet obviously. it had no effect
[10:11:54] <MattyMatt> D1 might help
[10:19:29] <piasdom> MattyMatt;in blender, you have to have a 3d drawing? i import a dxf and nothing has a thickness
[10:49:51] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[11:35:27] <MattyMatt> piasdom, that's the impoter probably, there are others. none read every kind of DXF
[11:36:57] <RLV> salut , hi
[11:37:02] <MattyMatt> I just milled my first chunk out of my vice \o/ also my first metal
[11:38:33] <MattyMatt> it nearly turned ugly. 3mm deep at woodcutting speeds
[11:38:36] <RLV> Just have a little question about EMC2. Is that easy to configure this software with an USB-home-made interface ?
[11:39:09] <MattyMatt> RLV mostly no
[11:39:27] <RLV> mostly ? nice step :-)
[11:39:46] <MattyMatt> they don't allow the fine-grained real time control that emc uses
[11:40:36] <RLV> I plan to use an USB controleur with a micro CPU
[11:40:54] <RLV> onboard (avr mega for example)
[11:41:18] <RLV> And I juste wonder if EMC2 will be able to send commands throught USB
[11:41:25] <MattyMatt> emc2 is not what you want then. your micro cpu would do the job
[11:41:48] <MattyMatt> emc2 is all about using the PC as the microcontroller
[11:42:37] <RLV> Okay, so I'll have to use the uCPU Onborad to read the G-Code and execute it
[11:43:43] <RLV> thx for the answer
[11:43:44] <MattyMatt> that would be best
[11:44:37] <MattyMatt> you could hack something that emulates a printer port
[11:45:00] <RLV> Yeah, but what will be the plus-value ?
[11:45:12] <MattyMatt> none
[11:45:41] <MattyMatt> except you could use it on a PC with no parport
[11:45:41] <RLV> I guess I'll have a really bad latency with this kind of bridge
[11:45:55] <MattyMatt> that's the problem
[11:46:22] <MattyMatt> what you want is emc2 ported to atmega
[11:46:46] <MattyMatt> which I guess is difficult
[11:47:17] <RLV> For basic commands like linear and circular interpolation, it's not really a problem
[11:48:08] <RLV> but I think EMC2 make a little more than controlling the motors
[11:49:01] <MattyMatt> not a great deal more than that. the GUI is a separate program
[11:49:53] <RLV> ok.
[11:50:06] <MattyMatt> so if you had the motor controller running on ATMega, using the same protocol, you could use the Axis gui prog
[11:50:09] <piasdom> MattyMatt; Thanks
[11:51:17] <RLV> if GUI is made with python and Tcl/TK, won't be a big problem to get the protocol.
[11:51:46] <RLV> Ok I'll see what I can do. Thank you very much for the answer.
[11:52:18] <RLV> Before I had a little idea of what I wanted to do... Now I'm really lost :-)
[11:52:23] <RLV> I'm on the right way so.
[11:52:45] <RLV> My baby call me. Thx again and C U.
[11:52:58] <MattyMatt> ok, good luck
[11:56:21] <frallzor> ello boys with expensive toys
[11:57:59] <JT-Dev> frallzor: who are you talking to LOL
[11:58:10] <frallzor> ya all! :P
[11:58:52] <MattyMatt> for varying definitions of expensive
[11:59:12] <frallzor> id call cnc an expensive toy no matter what the cost is =)
[11:59:20] <JT-Dev> what do you guys think of this for running 10.04 on http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101092
[11:59:58] <frallzor> a bit overkill? :P but working
[12:01:11] <alex_joni> JT-Dev: I'm not a big fan of non-standard hardware
[12:01:25] <alex_joni> e.g. PSU fails
[12:01:48] <frallzor> * frallzor is milling a nature scene in cherry wood
[12:01:56] <MattyMatt> I got my cnc pc due to psu fail \o/ I shoehorned a standard one in
[12:02:56] <JT-Dev> alex_joni: me neither
[12:04:40] <MattyMatt> isn't a cnc machine the last one that needs to be small & quiet?
[12:05:11] <JT-Dev> looks like AM3 is the most popular AMD socket atm
[12:05:18] <MattyMatt> which reminds me, I'm not using my noisy one yet
[12:05:43] <MattyMatt> yeah AM3 takes all the AM2 chips too
[12:08:23] <MattyMatt> I got amd last 2 times. bang per buck
[12:10:06] <MattyMatt> 2 core was plenty for me last time, and it paid off in quietness
[12:10:40] <JT-Dev> dang there are 20 Asus mobo's without onboard video to choose from
[12:10:56] <JT-Dev> anything I need to look out for?
[12:11:08] <frallzor> im so impressed with this nature scene! =D
[12:11:24] <MattyMatt> I wouldn't worry about that. onboard video is a godsend sometimes. you can always turn it off IME
[12:12:30] <MattyMatt> it'd be nice to consult a latency table of known onboard vid chipsets before choosing one tho
[12:12:42] <JT-Dev> yea
[12:13:15] <MattyMatt> nforce chipset of course gives you a reliable one
[12:14:13] <MattyMatt> this 780G I had trouble getting a driver working with it has ati hd3200
[12:16:41] <MattyMatt> and beware of cheap end asus boards. they are not the reliable brand they were
[12:17:08] <JT-Dev> <$100 boards?
[12:17:37] <MattyMatt> probably all of them are Asrock standard now
[12:17:50] <MattyMatt> iow, not very good
[12:17:59] <JT-Dev> lol
[12:18:32] <MattyMatt> I've got a bit of a dog myself
[12:19:12] <JT-Dev> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131647
[12:19:41] <JT-Dev> a comment Other Thoughts: My system: AMD 955BE, G. Skill 4GB Ripjaws, ASUS EN9800GTX Video, Ubuntu 10.04 OS. BTW Ubuntu users, everything works out-of-the-box.
[12:22:04] <MattyMatt> including ps2 keyb & mouse. nice to have
[12:22:30] <MattyMatt> yeah that's a well stacked board
[12:23:33] <MattyMatt> only 1 ether is a bit stingy these days
[12:24:03] <frallzor> * frallzor would like a pc-less system
[12:24:26] <MattyMatt> you need more smarts in the machine then :)
[12:24:48] <JT-Dev> what do you mean MattyMatt ?
[12:24:50] <MattyMatt> hide the PC in the machine
[12:24:59] <frallzor> pretty hard :P
[12:25:12] <MattyMatt> atom in the leg
[12:25:52] <frallzor> another hour or so and my job in the machine should be done
[12:25:54] <frallzor> cant wait!
[12:26:13] <MattyMatt> how big is the scene?
[12:26:14] <alex_joni> JT-Dev: usb3.0 on that asus is cool
[12:26:31] <JT-Dev> is that the new standard?
[12:26:35] <frallzor> turned out smaller than expected height wise, 650x80
[12:26:36] <frallzor> mm
[12:26:59] <frallzor> but the length is all I could get =)
[12:27:06] <frallzor> room for a 2nd one too now
[12:27:35] <frallzor> maybe use as a test to show carptenters what I can do to pickup customers
[12:27:56] <MattyMatt> yeah I need some test pieces
[12:28:26] <frallzor> I love vector art 3d machinist
[12:28:34] <frallzor> got the nice features of aspire
[12:29:03] <frallzor> still just for use with purshased models though
[12:29:18] <JT-Dev> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103674
[12:29:32] <alex_joni> JT-Dev: yeah, new standard, not many devices.. but good to have for the future
[12:29:39] <JT-Dev> cool
[12:31:21] <MattyMatt> the biostar mobo in the combo deal is like a new version of mine
[12:36:07] <MattyMatt> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103702 this chip gives you 4 cores for 95W
[12:36:35] <MattyMatt> 2.7Ghz v 3.2 for the 955
[12:37:05] <MattyMatt> that's a fair chunk of speed difference
[12:37:26] <JT-Dev> $55 difference in price
[12:37:47] <MattyMatt> that would clinch it for me :)
[12:38:03] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev heads off to the shower
[12:38:11] <JT-Dev> talk to you later
[12:44:38] <frallzor> hmm what to treat the wood with when done...
[12:44:52] <frallzor> would like a darker tone
[12:49:22] <frallzor> anyone speak dutch? =)
[12:50:37] <frallzor> http://www.damencnc.com/tools/man/Automatische%20gereedschapsmeting%20met%20USBCNC.pdf or nm, page 2, does it seem like that toolsetter just closes a circuit and should work with emc2 with just probe pin?
[12:56:48] <atmega> is Onnn IF/ELSE/etc EMC specific?
[13:00:57] <elmo40> frallzor: why all the holes in that 'part box' ?
[13:02:20] <cradek> atmega: a lot of controls have conditionals, loops, and subroutines, but each one has a different syntax for them.
[13:02:23] <frallzor> since a shart corner wont fint flush in a radius
[13:02:26] <frallzor> *sharp
[13:12:38] <elmo40> any idea what software this guy is using? never seen it before: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcj3d0_jante-bois-debut-finition-fraise-de_tech
[13:18:34] <frallzor> could be mach3 customized
[13:18:50] <elmo40> possible.
[13:19:53] <elmo40> when you moves to the cnc machine you can time the lag in the camera to audio (not much) but then he turns to the software and you see it lag SO MUCH! the tool path on the screen to the sound is out. silly non-real time windows ;)
[13:20:57] <DaViruz> looks like that job is going to take ages at that speed
[13:21:16] <elmo40> true
[13:21:20] <elmo40> very slow travel
[13:21:30] <DaViruz> actually i don't see it cutting at all
[13:25:27] <elmo40> I heard it cut
[13:25:34] <elmo40> the very first pass is a cut
[13:25:54] <elmo40> you can hear the tool deflection since it is spinning too slow for the depth of cut
[13:37:50] <JT-Work> MattyMatt: I ordered the cpu you linked to as the other one was not on the supported list at Asus lol
[13:42:07] <atmega> I'm trying to mock up some code using KMotionCNC which is supposed to be EMC based, but it doesn't like the conditionals
[13:44:05] <atmega> this lead in stuff for g41/g42 just stumps me at times
[13:45:59] <JT-Work> how is that?
[13:46:00] <cradek> non-gpl software that says "emc based" is surely based on the old public domain pre-emc2 code
[13:46:56] <atmega> might be gpl, it says 'with source'
[13:47:33] <cradek> oh ok
[13:47:55] <cradek> did you see jt's new docs for using cutter comp?
[13:47:59] <cpresser> hi, how do i setup the default direction for homing?
[13:48:25] <atmega> don't know, I could use some good docs... url?
[13:48:31] <cradek> cpresser: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_ini_homing.html
[13:48:42] <atmega> cpresser: change the sign of the home speed
[13:48:46] <cradek> atmega: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_tool_compensation.html
[13:49:45] <cpresser> ty, I will read this first an then try again... :)
[13:51:11] <atmega> I think what I had originally for lead-in would work in EMC, but this KCNC simulator errors on acute angles, etc
[13:52:18] <cradek> accepting concave corners was new for emc2.3
[13:53:50] <atmega> I was trying to write a generic routine for cutting inside/outside panels using rounded rectangles
[13:54:13] <atmega> but, I just did one for inside, one for outside
[14:08:44] <cpresser> i guess my configuration is okay now... next question would be: after I touch off the tool on my material how do I set this point a new zero for my coordinates?
[14:08:48] <atmega> "Cutter gouging with cutter radius comp"
[14:09:03] <atmega> hit the 'touch off' button
[14:09:33] <cpresser> mmh...where is that button located?
[14:10:25] <cradek> on the manual tab
[14:10:26] <cpresser> i am using the 'axis-gui'
[14:10:43] <cradek> um, it's right there...
[14:11:11] <cpresser> ah nice... i am just a little blind :)
[14:11:13] <cradek> atmega: I think that error used to mean the entry move is too short. but that particular error is no longer in emc.
[14:11:28] <cpresser> found it now. is there a way to touch off all axis at once?
[14:11:37] <cradek> nope
[14:12:23] <atmega> this is coming from a Z only move
[14:12:41] <elmo40> scooter motor anyone? they claim 5.5Hp ! http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-other-2002-Handcap-Scooter-3-wheel-W0QQAdIdZ202927789
[14:13:03] <cradek> atmega: Z only is an invalid entry move (first move after g41/g42)
[14:13:28] <atmega> heh, I had this working before, then I added a Z up front to be safe.
[14:13:29] <cradek> atmega: for entry, you need to move in XY, at least a cutter radius
[14:22:12] <atmega> I did... now I'm back to the concave corner
[14:23:37] <frallzor> f*ck yeah, all done
[14:24:12] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/KxJqEGgEC/ har to shoot, but better than nothing =)
[14:24:29] <JT-Work> cool
[14:25:43] <herron> * herron hand frallzor some linseed oil
[14:26:55] <herron> it has come out well
[14:26:56] <atmega> frallzor: what did you use to generate the code?
[14:28:20] <frallzor> the modell is bought, so I used the freebieversion of aspires machinist
[14:28:33] <cradek> frallzor: that's pretty neat
[14:28:44] <frallzor> its bloody awesome, Im sooo getting aspire
[14:28:50] <frallzor> when I can afford it =)
[14:29:30] <atmega> $2k seems pretty pricey
[14:29:56] <atmega> I'd like to try vcarve pro
[14:30:04] <frallzor> shitload cheaper than artcam
[14:30:10] <frallzor> and imo it sucks
[14:30:23] <atmega> which one sucks?
[14:30:26] <frallzor> artcam
[14:30:32] <frallzor> and its waaay more pricey
[14:30:42] <atmega> cut2d looks like it would make what I'm trying to do trivial
[14:31:11] <frallzor> when looking at my work I can tell leveling the table paid of
[14:31:11] <piasdom> anyone know a dxf to gcode software that works with turboCAD? (free/buy)
[14:31:16] <frallzor> perfect meet of all cuts
[14:31:54] <Rickta59> piasdom: have you looked at cam.py?
[14:32:29] <piasdom> Rickta59; i will look now thanks(never heard of 'em)
[14:32:36] <Rickta59> http://fab.cba.mit.edu/about/fab/dist/cam.py
[14:33:05] <Rickta59> * i've never tried it though : )
[14:35:29] <Rickta59> actually I popped in here to see if anyone has used skeinforge with emc?
[14:38:50] <atmega> this simulator doesn't seem to actually show tool compensation
[14:41:42] <cradek> if you're going to cut using emc, you should use emc in sim mode for simulation. it's not like getting another copy is that expensive.
[14:42:51] <atmega> no linux here
[14:45:38] <cpresser> * cpresser is working with "vcarve pro". its not that expensive and has a lots of vector editing-tools
[14:45:54] <atmega> buy me a copy?
[14:46:19] <SWPadnos> atmega, get vmware or similar and run Linux in a VM
[14:46:35] <SWPadnos> sim doesn't need a realtime kernel, and runs very nicely in a VM
[14:46:50] <atmega> heh... vmware is ungodly painful on this box
[14:47:08] <SWPadnos> well, you've been meaning to upgrade the hardware for some time ... :)
[14:47:18] <atmega> I'm at work.
[14:47:36] <SWPadnos> you've been meaning to have your company upgrade the hardware for some time ...
[14:47:38] <atmega> but, I don't seem to be doing much work at the moment.
[14:48:03] <atmega> on my 'new' celeron
[14:48:05] <SWPadnos> you obviously need a faster PC, to improve productivity
[14:50:22] <atmega> heh... I'm going to end up with a bump from the entry move, just like the doc says
[14:52:50] <atmega> it does show cutter compensation, if you actually turn it on.
[14:54:19] <atmega> in theory, this will cut a glove box type panel with a space for a flush mounted GPS/Fishfinder
[14:58:34] <tom3p> anyone do machine service from USA into CA? I just swapped plate registration from car A to car B and got call to repair in CA. but my VIN wont match for 2 weeks :( any workarounds?
[15:22:35] <SWPadnos> tom3p, rent a car
[15:23:32] <SWPadnos> and/or bring the form(s) and proof of payment to the border with you, so you can show them to the agents if they ask
[15:28:38] <tom3p> SWPadnos, i just got the ok to rent :) good thinkin
[15:28:46] <SWPadnos> heh. np
[15:30:37] <JT-Work> just make sure you don't have a stray .22 bullet rolling around the floor :)
[15:47:39] <cpresser> thanks for the help earlier,. and thanks for this great piece of software :)
[15:47:52] <cpresser> i got my first test-item milled: http://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/pictures/20100514_emc2_milling.jpg
[15:48:52] <cradek> neat! looks good.
[15:53:34] <cpresser> the machine itself has a good hardware... however so far I used the original-software which is really crap :)
[15:53:51] <JT-Work> looking good
[15:53:55] <cpresser> _dont_ ever try to use iprocam :P
[15:54:19] <JT-Work> cpresser: what did you generate the paths for the letters with?
[15:54:41] <cpresser> JT-Work: this was the example-file shipped with the emc-live-cd :)
[15:54:57] <JT-Work> I should have known that lol
[15:55:01] <cpresser> but for productive stuff I use v-carve-pro
[16:33:04] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/PlHSbkqYX/ colored and waiting to dry so I can wax it :)
[16:34:17] <bill2or3> you must have a big router.
[16:35:07] <frallzor> well that part isnt that big =)
[16:35:12] <frallzor> 650mm long
[16:36:40] <bill2or3> Nice carving.
[16:37:47] <ries> frallzor: nice work dude!
[16:38:03] <bill2or3> what'd you generate the gcode with?
[16:38:44] <frallzor> the company that made the modell I bough makes software too, used a freebieversion of their machining part
[16:38:49] <frallzor> *bought
[16:39:18] <frallzor> im pretty satisfied with it ries =)
[16:39:50] <ries> frallzor: how long did it take and what bit did you use?
[16:40:05] <frallzor> 1-2hrs
[16:40:18] <frallzor> 6mm end mill and 3mm ball end mill
[16:41:19] <ries> not bad....
[16:41:26] <ries> I still need to order my bits :s
[17:00:36] <JT-Work> frallzor: looking good
[17:01:25] <grommit> I have an odd problem with AXIS. Or perhaps it isn't odd and is "normal"... When I am in manual control in AXIS, and select clockwise and then push + to command a speed the spindle runs fine. If I then click Stop, the spindle brakes but the commanded speed stay at whatever it was before the brake (I can see this in a side PYVCP panel I have). So then when I click on clockwise again, the spindle begins to spin up to the previously commanded speed but immed
[17:04:32] <JT-Work> immed?
[17:05:02] <frallzor> dried of the paint a little, sweet result now, just need drying for waxing now =)
[17:05:30] <tlab> * tlab had an interview with Mazak today
[17:10:43] <eric_unterhausen> eric_unterhausen is now known as EricKeller
[17:27:02] <skunkworks> yahoo down for others?
[17:27:25] <skunkworks> nm - working now
[17:34:22] <morfic-> morfic- is now known as morfic
[17:44:02] <MattyMatt> frallzor, how much for the art?
[17:46:22] <MattyMatt> and how many legs does a reindeer have again?
[17:46:28] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt scribbles
[17:48:05] <JT-Work> I think it depends on how much time the reindeer spend feeding around spent nuclear fuel...
[17:48:51] <MattyMatt> good plan (me draws reactor in background, discharging into lake)
[17:49:33] <MattyMatt> I've got a couple of scrap cars and bikes sticking out, so you can tell it's a lake
[17:49:56] <JT-Work> LOL
[17:53:16] <JT-Work> don't forget a couple of shopping carts sticking out of the muck
[17:54:02] <Dave911> I think I might have found a bug in version 2.4 regarding soft limits? Anyone else seeing some odd behaviour?
[17:54:10] <Jymmm> and a floater
[17:54:41] <MattyMatt> and a crocodile feeding frenzy
[17:55:10] <Dave911> It appears that softlimits may be looking at something other than machine position.. when I change work offsets the soft limits seem to change
[17:55:37] <Dave911> I need to do more testing ... but something seems wrong ..
[17:55:39] <cradek> Dave911: are you talking about the behavior of the "run anyway?" prompt in AXIS, or something else?
[17:56:14] <JT-Work> the soft limits have me confused as well... but that don't take much
[17:56:21] <cradek> I've definitely seen that appear when the program will actually run
[17:56:22] <Dave911> That is what pops up .... but I am getting a soft limit alarm when loading a program that is clearly not outside of the limits ..
[17:56:48] <Dave911> It won't let me run ...
[17:56:59] <cradek> even when you say to run anyway?
[17:57:05] <Dave911> The workaround was to defeat the soft limits by expanding them
[17:57:06] <JT-Work> I get that when I foul up the offsets and forget to do something
[17:57:30] <Dave911> Yes .. even when I say run anyway .. Micges said there is an issue with the run anyways thing the other day ....
[17:57:54] <cradek> ok then it's something other than what I have seen, please continue troubleshooting
[17:58:03] <Dave911> But it looks like softlimits might be broken ... like it is following the work offsets and not sticking to the machine position
[17:58:34] <Dave911> I just wanted to make sure I wasn't chasing something that is already a known bug ...
[17:59:21] <cradek> if you can narrow it down some more, maybe we can figure out what is wrong.
[17:59:38] <Dave911> I can do more testing here in my office - without the machine - this should be fairly easy to verify ..
[18:00:01] <Dave911> OK... I'll keep chasing it ... hopefully it is operator error ... ;-)
[18:00:12] <MattyMatt> It sounds exactly like the trouble I get until I've homed & touched off properly
[18:00:15] <cradek> that's my guess so far :-)
[18:00:29] <cradek> but I always guess that first!
[18:00:36] <Dave911> Always a good possibility .. :-)
[18:00:56] <Dave911> I'll let you know ...
[18:01:01] <MattyMatt> I had my limits set so all positive values of Y were invalid
[18:01:17] <MattyMatt> that cramped my style somewhat
[18:01:47] <Dave911> MattyMatt: are you running a lathe or was this a mill or ?
[18:01:58] <MattyMatt> 3axis mill
[18:02:31] <Dave911> So what did you have to do with the soft limits?
[18:03:15] <Dave911> Z is usually in a negative space, X and Y are usually in a positive space .. correct ?
[18:03:17] <MattyMatt> I think I set them to -600,600 or anything that worked
[18:03:42] <Dave911> OK, so you basically opened them up so it worked .. you defeated them all together ...
[18:04:04] <bill2or3> Does Enco ever have a 'free shipping' promotion, or am I mis-remembering?
[18:04:10] <MattyMatt> yeah but I'm fairly certain it's operator error, and it's emc 2.3
[18:05:11] <Dave911> In my case it might be operator error but I worked on it for an hour last night on the machine and I couldn't make any sense of it ... I will try and verify on a motion simulator in my office
[18:05:40] <MattyMatt> I don't mind workarounds until I get home & limit switches
[18:06:09] <Dave911> Enco does once in a while ... Enco and MSC are one in the same now I think I get email adverts from MSC about every two days now..
[18:07:14] <Dave911> For some reason I don't get Enco email adds??
[18:07:39] <bill2or3> I'm sure they'd be glad to send you some, if you ask. :-)
[18:08:24] <frallzor> speaking offsets, I had the same issue a few days ago
[18:10:37] <JT-Work> what issue?
[18:10:52] <frallzor> that Dave911 described
[18:11:00] <JT-Work> ok
[18:11:12] <frallzor> emc saying outside limits when clearly not
[18:12:37] <cradek> I think tool offsets confuse the AXIS "run anyway?" prompt. BUT if you click run anyway the program WILL run. Dave is reporting something else, which I have not seen.
[18:12:51] <frallzor> mine didnt run either
[18:13:05] <cradek> ok, we really need a simple way to reproduce it then.
[18:13:27] <Dave911> frallzor.. are you on release version 2.4 also ?
[18:13:38] <frallzor> started to move and stopped at the error saying something about joints
[18:13:49] <frallzor> yes and no
[18:13:54] <frallzor> but same issue on both for me
[18:14:03] <frallzor> tried both 2.3 and 2.4
[18:14:10] <cradek> ok, we really need a simple way to reproduce it then.
[18:14:13] <Dave911> ok
[18:14:52] <frallzor> the issue only occured when my Code wanted 0,0,0 at irl 260,0,0
[18:15:08] <frallzor> so I moved the tool, offset at set position
[18:15:13] <frallzor> then it happens
[18:15:26] <frallzor> but never when 0,0,0 really is 0,0,0
[18:16:14] <JT-Work> it will do it every time for me if I touch off the G54 Z offset on the material without doing a G43 after loading my tool... and it is correct in not letting me run
[18:17:10] <Dave911> frallzor: Are you saying that if your work offsets G54,G55 etc are different than the machine coordinates you have a problem ?
[18:17:34] <frallzor> I think so
[18:17:40] <cradek> JT-Work: lucky for you, sounds like
[18:17:40] <Dave911> JT-Work .... that makes sense... but I have a g43 after each tool change .... T6 M6 G43 etc
[18:17:45] <frallzor> but only for XY
[18:17:49] <frallzor> Z works fine
[18:18:43] <Dave911> Interesting ... I didn't have any issues with Z either, it tripped on X.
[18:19:16] <JT-Work> it happens when I set up a job, I do a t1m6 in the MDI then dial it up to the Z0 of the material then do a Z touch off for G54 but forgot to do a G43 in the MDI window
[18:19:38] <JT-Work> then it thinks it has a 13" Z offset LOL
[18:21:30] <JT-Work> in the program I to a T1M6 then a G43 so tool offset and the g54 get added together and I'm outside of my limits then
[18:21:59] <JT-Work> I don't do it as often any more... after running into the spindle :/
[18:22:14] <Dave911> JT-Work .... why should the G43 matter in that situation. If you are not outside the soft limits in machine coords a G43 should not matter ....
[18:22:55] <Dave911> I thought soft limits only monitored calculated machine position (absolute... )
[18:23:02] <JT-Work> If I don't load the tool offset before doing the material offset I get the wrong offset
[18:23:38] <JT-Work> then the machine absolute position in my file is now outside of my soft limits
[18:25:20] <Dave911> .... now I don't understand why the offsets should affect the soft limits .. that is my issue ... no matter what I have on the screen for G54,G55,G56 etc... as long as the machine absolute positions are not going outside of the soft limits I should get no errors ...
[18:26:36] <JT-Work> if the offsets put your machine outside of the soft limits you should get an error
[18:26:53] <Dave911> I disagree ...
[18:27:03] <cradek> if the offsets make it so your gcode will move the machine past its limits you should get an error
[18:27:23] <Dave911> I agree with that ..
[18:27:42] <cradek> I can make any of your gcode programs error, and rightfully so, by programming (for instance) G92 X111111 Y222222
[18:27:43] <JT-Work> I thought that was what I said lol
[18:27:58] <cradek> that's why I want an example
[18:28:22] <cradek> it's very easy to get confused
[18:28:28] <Dave911> But if you machine is stationary .. within machine limits ... you should be able to do a touch off at that spot and say you are at X1000 and not violate any soft limits
[18:28:30] <cradek> it's very easy to not see quite what's going on
[18:28:46] <cradek> Dave911: yes, until you run gcode that has a G0 X0 in it
[18:28:58] <Dave911> I agree ....
[18:29:26] <Dave911> But say you like big numbers .... ;-)
[18:30:05] <Dave911> And you like to machine around X111111 and Y222222 within .5 inches ... that should not be a problem .. right ??
[18:30:18] <cradek> right
[18:30:36] <Dave911> OK ... that was just a sanity check for myself .... :-)
[18:31:08] <cradek> if you're making a ruler a mile long on your bridgeport, and you're at the end of it, you might touch off X=63350" and then make the last ten marks
[18:31:42] <Dave911> I think we are all on the same page ... so I will try and duplicate what I saw last night and if I can I will come up with a simply sequence to prove it .. or admit the dreaded operator error ... ;-)
[18:31:51] <cradek> excellent
[18:37:11] <ries> frallzor: I speak dutch
[18:37:57] <Jymmm> * Jymmm speaks typo!
[18:39:35] <frallzor> too late =P
[18:47:19] <frallzor> just wax oiled the scene
[18:47:25] <frallzor> its turning out awesome
[18:51:44] <MattyMatt> how much did you pay for the art? do you want to say?
[18:52:01] <frallzor> $50
[18:52:07] <frallzor> not that bad imo
[18:52:20] <MattyMatt> I suppose that's OK
[18:52:21] <Jymmm> art?
[18:52:45] <frallzor> but when I get aspire, if I get it, i can make stuff like that on my own =)
[18:52:57] <MattyMatt> building a catalog for customers could be expensive
[18:53:10] <Jymmm> what art?
[18:53:14] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/dWrybFTiU/ this model
[18:53:55] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[18:54:05] <grommit> Asked earlier, but got no response so I thought I'd ask again... Anyone have any idea on this issue? I have an odd problem with AXIS. Or perhaps it isn't odd and is "normal"... When I am in manual control in AXIS, and select clockwise and then push + to command a speed the spindle runs fine. If I then click Stop, the spindle brakes but the commanded speed stay at whatever it was before the brake (I can see this in a side PYVCP panel I have). So then when
[19:00:28] <micges> grommit: what emc version?
[19:08:18] <grommit> 2.3.5
[19:09:50] <grommit> I would think that clicking Stop or Brake would cause the spindle to be commanded to zero as well...
[19:10:57] <micges> me too, let me check it
[19:12:46] <skunkworks> I don't know... in g-code - you can have a spindle speed Sxxxx and turn the spindle on and off without the s word changing..
[19:13:06] <grommit> yes, and that seems to work fine
[19:13:40] <skunkworks> which is sort of what the spindle buttons are doing..
[19:14:25] <grommit> It seems like the commanded speed (using + or - buttons) is "disconnected" from the Stop (and Brake) buttons.
[19:14:43] <JT-Work> on 2.4 when I click on spindle stop then start it starts at the lowest speed no matter what speed I had bumped it up to with the + button
[19:16:17] <grommit> Hmm, I wonder if something was changed (fixed) in 2.4?
[19:16:47] <grommit> If you up the speed, and click stop and then click the CW button again, it stays at 0?
[19:17:54] <JT-Work> it starts back at the slowest speed... like 10 rpm or something I'm not near the machine atm
[19:18:38] <cradek> I think the start speed is 1 rpm
[19:18:44] <micges> grommit: at 2.3.5 there is same behaviour as in 2.4
[19:19:15] <JT-Work> it's so slow it goes backward lol
[19:19:35] <grommit> Mine goes back to the slowest speed (1 rpm), but only after ramping down from the last commanded speed. That is a no biggie if the last commanded speed was slow, but if it was fast (say 3000rpm) then it spins up and spins down immediately.
[19:19:51] <JT-Work> I need to set the offset a bit better
[19:20:20] <JT-Work> commanded with Snnn?
[19:20:34] <grommit> no, commanded with the + button
[19:20:48] <grommit> Let me try it with S (after starting by manual control)
[19:20:54] <JT-Work> ok
[19:21:11] <grommit> same thing
[19:21:35] <grommit> it spins up and then immediately down to 1rpm.
[19:23:20] <grommit> I am watching spindle-speed on my AXIS display (via the pyvcp panel) and i can see that the speed is still sitting at the last speed even after I hit Stop.
[19:25:47] <andypugh> grommit: Is spindle-enable on?
[19:26:06] <grommit> You mean after I select Stop?
[19:26:11] <andypugh> Ye
[19:26:13] <andypugh> s
[19:26:20] <grommit> let me look....
[19:28:19] <grommit> After I select Stop, spindle-enable goes to FALSE.
[19:28:50] <andypugh> I assume that spindle-forwards and spindle-backwards also probably go false.
[19:29:09] <andypugh> Does your spindle actually stop?
[19:29:18] <grommit> Yes, the spindle stops fine.
[19:29:35] <grommit> It is then when I click on CW again that it spins up before spinning down
[19:29:55] <andypugh> OK, I thought you were saying that it was stopped by the brake and the brake and motor then sat there arguing.
[19:30:09] <andypugh> Mine doesn't do that.
[19:30:23] <andypugh> (the spin up and down)
[19:30:44] <andypugh> Do you have closed-loop spindle speed?
[19:30:57] <grommit> No
[19:31:13] <grommit> There is no encoder on the spindle
[19:31:31] <andypugh> There goes that idea. You can get wierd things with the PWM running to full negative
[19:34:52] <andypugh> So, you are saying that motion.spindle-speed-out doesn't go to zero when you press the "stop" button on the left half of the screen?
[19:35:08] <grommit> I was just looking at those signals.
[19:35:23] <grommit> spindle-vel-cmd goes to zero when I hit stop
[19:35:36] <grommit> However, spindle-vel-fb does now
[19:35:41] <grommit> now==not
[19:35:56] <andypugh> I am guessing that spindle-vel-cmd is a signal name?
[19:36:14] <grommit> I wonder if because it is not zero when i then click CW EMC thinks it needs to spin down
[19:36:29] <grommit> Yes, spindle-vel-cmd is a signal
[19:36:40] <andypugh> Possibly, as you are wiring a feedback with no feedback
[19:36:56] <andypugh> Post your hal?
[19:37:12] <andypugh> (Or have you already done that and I missed it?)
[19:37:33] <andypugh> It seems odd to have a -fb signal defined with no encoder.
[19:38:14] <andypugh> (Doorbell)
[19:39:05] <grommit> hal file at http://pastebin.com/ca6wwYan
[19:40:58] <SWPadnos> spindle vel fb is driven from the stepgen vel output, which will not go directly to 0 if there is an accel limit on the stepgen
[19:41:02] <SWPadnos> which there is
[19:42:05] <grommit> you mean maxaccel=2000?
[19:42:10] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:42:13] <andypugh> Is it a stepper-spindle then?
[19:42:23] <SWPadnos> Homann DC-06
[19:42:32] <SWPadnos> frequency -> voltage converter
[19:42:46] <grommit> no stepper spindle, but a step pulse is driving a 0-10vdc varying voltage to motor controller
[19:43:19] <grommit> so should I remove the maxaccel parameter or set it to 0?
[19:43:25] <andypugh> I _think_ that the Hostmot2 steppgen might hold it's value when disabled rather than go to zero.
[19:46:18] <andypugh> I wonder if this is related?
[19:46:19] <andypugh> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=da68626985f92af1eb2be3177f28240f63e835b6
[19:47:26] <andypugh> Try commenting out the the spindle feedback lines in HAL, after all you don't actually have any feedback
[19:47:31] <grommit> hmm, sounds like what might be happening
[19:47:51] <SWPadnos> logger_2, bookmark
[19:47:51] <SWPadnos> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-05-14.txt
[19:48:36] <JT-Work> wow two loggers!
[19:49:00] <SWPadnos> yeah. logger_emc was running when they changed hosts, so now we can't get to it to stop it :)
[19:51:57] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[19:54:53] <grommit> Commenting out the lines with spindle-vel-fb in them didn't change anything...
[19:55:16] <SWPadnos> feedback is irrelevant to the commanded speed and how that is handled (in this case)
[19:56:16] <SWPadnos> your spindle has some max acceleration, which is what maxaccel should be set for
[19:56:21] <grommit> so is there any way to solve this?
[19:56:38] <SWPadnos> does the DC-06 have an acceleration ramp setting?
[19:56:40] <andypugh> Yes
[19:56:42] <SWPadnos> or the VFD
[19:57:12] <andypugh> There is definitely a way to solve it, but we need to pin down what the "it" is exactly.
[19:57:19] <grommit> the KBPB-125 has a pot for setting Accel and Decel
[19:57:23] <SWPadnos> if there are accel settings on either the DC-06 or VFD (preferred), then you can set the stepgen maxaccel to 0, which will disable stepgen accleration
[19:57:26] <SWPadnos> acceleration
[19:57:41] <grommit> oh, let me try that
[19:57:44] <SWPadnos> that should prevent the ramp you're seeing
[19:58:13] <SWPadnos> there may still be a bug(let) in the HM2 stepgens in velocity mode, but that should fix your immediate problem
[19:59:28] <andypugh> If there is such a bug, one solution would be to unwire the stepgen enable from motion.spindle.on, so that the stepgen remains active and winds down when asked.
[20:00:06] <SWPadnos> plus a mux with 0 and spindle-cmd fed into it, selected by spindle-on
[20:02:17] <grommit> setting macaccel to 0 did it!
[20:02:21] <grommit> maxaccel
[20:02:56] <andypugh> SWPadnos: I was wondering about a MUX like that, but also wondering if using a direct enable signal to the drive might be better.
[20:03:26] <andypugh> Currently spindle-on only goes to the stepgen enable, which seems a bit fragile.
[20:03:28] <SWPadnos> the mux is simply to insure that the commanded speed is 0 when the spindle is off, since it isn't always (as skunkworks pointed out)
[20:07:30] <Al_Smt> 2.4 halui: new pins such as home-all ,I see unhome but not home all
[20:13:32] <Al_Smt> I got one more about halui is the halui.program.step pin ment to act like the Gui's step when pressed while the programs is running it goes to steping in the program?
[20:20:37] <cradek> like in AXIS, home all only shows up if you have a homing sequence
[20:21:46] <Dave911> cradek: I can't duplicate what I saw last night on my machine .... forget what I said... must have been operator error again.. :-( Work offset, G43, and soft limits all seem to be working properly .... at least on the X axis where I was having problems Everything is perfectly predictable spinning motors on my bench.
[20:21:48] <Dave911> I probably have some bad Gcode file that was spit out of my cam software that tripped the soft limits... I need to tweak the cam post anyway .. so I'll have to figure out that issue. There were several hundred lines of Gcode so it is probably buried in there some place. But that is not an EMC2 issue .... :-)
[20:22:14] <cradek> Dave911: thanks for letting me know, hope you find it
[20:22:53] <Dave911> I'm sure I will.. :-) I need to setup my simulator here the same as my lathe so I can find some of this stuff before I load it into the machine ...
[20:23:52] <frallzor> If I want to try touchy and dont have the needed start stop etc etc as proper buttons, could one use hal to just bind them to my gamepad pendant? =)
[20:25:22] <Dave911> I didn't realize it, but the Axis display of the soft limits can be confusing as they don't move with the offsets .... They stay around the machine center .. I guess dynamically changing the soft limit display on the Axis preview screen might be very difficult though...
[20:26:10] <cradek> frallzor: yes
[20:27:01] <Dave911> Funny, but the more I work with CNC machines the less I value the preview displays, especially if the cam software is working properly..
[20:27:04] <frallzor> goodie, then I could actually make a proper usb pendant of it and use touchy permanent =)
[20:27:05] <cradek> Dave911: it's tough, because you don't want to think of the program moving when you change tool lengths, but the tool length does affect what part of the program you can reach.
[20:27:16] <cradek> frallzor: you need a wheel, though
[20:27:32] <frallzor> nah, this way works fine =)
[20:27:51] <frallzor> using the gamepad pendant as in the wiki
[20:27:53] <cradek> Dave911: so showing the program and machine extents in the same preview is pretty much impossible
[20:28:00] <frallzor> works like a charm
[20:28:43] <Dave911> cradek: Yep.. I can see the problem with doing that
[20:30:24] <Dave911> I wish my machine was as stable as EMC2 .... last night my spindle drive started faulting ... I think I need to do some motor maintenance.. I think the brushes are shot .. fortunately I have a spare set that came with the machine ..
[20:31:25] <Dave911> Older CNC machines are like older cars... there is always something that should be looked at or fixed or .....
[20:31:41] <Dave911> bbl
[20:33:04] <cradek> so true
[20:33:20] <cradek> "well that doesn't sound right at all, but I guess it's still working"
[20:34:40] <frallzor> cradek will the gamepad pendant enabled via hal still work with touchy?
[20:35:37] <andypugh> Does Touchy export the same halui pins as Axis?
[20:36:47] <cradek> frallzor: I have no idea how you have it set up
[20:37:07] <cradek> AXIS doesn't have halui pins; halui is a separate UI that you can run if you want.
[20:37:22] <frallzor> that works with touchy too then?
[20:37:33] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui_touchy.html#r1_1_1
[20:38:01] <cradek> touchy needs the listed controlling signals on its hal pins. you can get them from whatever you want.
[20:38:31] <cradek> I'm not sure how much sense it would make to run halui and touchy together, but you definitely could.
[20:39:04] <frallzor> if yo are using a gamepad pendant as I am I would see it makes sense =) I have no real mpg so I could use this then
[20:39:07] <frallzor> *you
[20:39:22] <cradek> you need a wheel for touchy. otherwise you can't run half of it.
[20:40:10] <frallzor> what more than jog is the wheel used for then?
[20:40:28] <cradek> overrides and speeds
[20:40:34] <cradek> anywhere a kind
[20:40:36] <cradek> er
[20:40:46] <cradek> anywhere a mouse gui would have a slider, touchy uses the wheel
[20:47:30] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[21:05:40] <Jymmm> mouse wheel!
[21:07:01] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[21:19:38] <Jymmm> Actually, that's not a bad idea at all. Since TOUCHY is so dependant upon a wheel, using a simple usb mouse with scroll wheel would be perfect.
[21:19:47] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[21:44:32] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[21:49:14] <MattyMatt> for the lead-in with G41, does it have to be in the direction of the first cut to let it compensate?
[21:49:55] <bill2or3> it has to be such that it can clear everything before hitting the first point.
[21:49:56] <JT-Work> I don't think so
[21:50:03] <bill2or3> p.s. figuring that stuff out sucks.
[21:50:16] <JT-Work> not figuring it out sucks lol
[21:51:09] <andypugh> I wonder if straight-up works?
[21:51:23] <MattyMatt> my leadin is a plunge atm, so it doesn't work
[21:51:24] <JT-Work> not for x y
[21:51:49] <MattyMatt> it needs the first direction to know where to start
[21:52:03] <JT-Work> it must be an x or y move longer than the radius of the tool or at least equal to the radius
[21:52:26] <JT-Work> in G17 anyway
[21:52:34] <cradek> MattyMatt: you can turn on compensation with any straight move, but you still have to be careful how to get in and out of the work if you don't want to leave a divot (see docs for a good picture of this)
[21:52:59] <JT-Work> see my video for a good picture of offsets lol
[21:53:13] <MattyMatt> I can imagine. so I need to move to outside the outline to begin
[21:53:37] <cradek> an arc that enters the work tangentially is always a safe way, as is entering at an outside corner concavely (is that a word?)
[21:54:10] <JT-Work> I've noticed that programmers make up their own words as they go along :)
[21:54:19] <MattyMatt> dunno, my script doesn't handle arcs properly yet
[21:54:36] <andypugh> like "Software"?
[21:54:41] <MattyMatt> wetware
[21:55:03] <cradek> JT-Work: yep, if we can't find one that exists already
[21:55:16] <andypugh> There is a great tale that begins "A long time ago, when the word "software" still sounded funny....
[21:55:21] <Jymmm> I know what vaporware is, what's wetware?
[21:55:33] <cradek> Jymmm: same thing as meatware
[21:55:45] <andypugh> Wetware is what you do your between-the-ears processing with
[21:55:56] <Jymmm> Ok, what's meatware?
[21:56:03] <andypugh> You are
[21:56:19] <Jymmm> Carnivor Software?
[21:56:25] <MattyMatt> kill_all_fleshies();
[21:56:31] <cradek> thinking/calculating machinery made of meat
[21:57:13] <Jymmm> Ah, Like vegge-matic, but operator-matic, IT SLICES, IT DICES....
[21:57:52] <andypugh> Here it is: Anyone who has worked with low-capability hardware at the bit level will get this (I am looking especially at Mat here): http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/mel.html
[21:58:51] <MattyMatt> I only got my first eprom programmer this year
[22:00:22] <andypugh> It was a long time before I understood that remark. Since Mel knew the numerical value of every operation code, and assigned his own drum addresses, every instruction he wrote could also be considered a numerical constant. He could pick up an earlier "add" instruction, say, and multiply by it, if it had the right numeric value. His code was not easy for someone else to modify.
[22:03:22] <skunkworks> what does it mean when windows xp seems to run faster in a virtual machine on lucid than a normal install?
[22:03:56] <andypugh> Norton?
[22:03:58] <cradek> skunkworks: you probably drink too much in addition to using windows too much
[22:04:45] <JT-Work> skunkworks: you pay too much attention to windoz
[22:05:31] <frallzor> speaking of windows, one should tru mach3 maybe.... hmmm
[22:05:34] <frallzor> *try
[22:05:53] <andypugh> Circuit design guides say that PCB tracks for 240V should be 5mm apart. The device pins are 2.54mm apart. Tricky.
[22:06:18] <skunkworks> heh
[22:06:34] <skunkworks> it boots in about 5 seconds
[22:07:04] <andypugh> Boots or reloads the state?
[22:07:21] <skunkworks> andypugh: had the same issue with the irf gate driver ic's
[22:07:26] <skunkworks> boots
[22:07:52] <andypugh> skunkworks: Guess what this is? It's an IRF gate driver...
[22:07:58] <skunkworks> heh
[22:08:35] <skunkworks> I thought - they must know... ;)
[22:08:57] <andypugh> One of these, in fact. http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5469721364857131746
[22:09:12] <celeron55> what if it's in an SMD package :P 1.27mm
[22:09:57] <skunkworks> that doesn't seem right...
[22:10:21] <andypugh> I complained that RS had sent me the wrong part (true) and that it had gone bang (true). I never claimed cause and effect. The technical chap sent me a replacement correct part, and so did the customer services lady.
[22:10:32] <aystarik> skunkworks: windows xp installs with the dumb IDE drivers, in virtual mode it does not hurt, this is why it's faster when virtual :)
[22:14:04] <andypugh> I still have no idea what blew that driver up. it is meant to have shoot-through protection in the internal logic.
[22:16:35] <morfic> skunkworks: ever notice how much more fun it is to format 40GB on a virtual disk compared to a real disk when installing XP?
[22:17:12] <andypugh> I give it 20GB, and expect it to be grateful/
[22:17:47] <morfic> i was just commenting on the format time itself
[22:18:23] <MattyMatt> I'm not a real programmer. I like source debuggers too much
[22:18:42] <morfic> i hear when i go back to work on Tuesday our (to be) retrofit MoriSeiki will be in its place, if we strip it quick, we can send its ball screws together with those from our mill
[22:19:06] <skunkworks> yes - (I acutallly went with 10gb... just to play around - but it formated in about 2 seconds) ;)
[22:19:11] <MattyMatt> I should run XP in VM, just for VS
[22:19:55] <morfic> my VS is way behind, don't want to find out what it would cost to get it current
[22:19:56] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Source code is for wimps!
[22:20:02] <MattyMatt> and then when I find a good VS/PSDK/DXSDK combo, put that on my lappy
[22:20:15] <skunkworks> this is using virtualbox... other than the usb not working and pulling out my hair - then giving up - the next time I booted the laptop - the usb worked.
[22:20:23] <andypugh> VS?
[22:20:25] <MattyMatt> VS express does nearly everything now
[22:20:33] <MattyMatt> no asm tho
[22:20:48] <MattyMatt> Visual Studio
[22:20:54] <andypugh> Ah.
[22:21:07] <MattyMatt> express = free
[22:21:43] <MattyMatt> all the free ones are subtly hobbled tho
[22:21:44] <andypugh> I have been coding EMC using network drives and Xcode. It worked a lot better than coding stood up on a concrete floor with a stainless steel keyboard.
[22:23:13] <MattyMatt> nothing on linux debugs like VS does, or like TC++ or RHIDE did in DOS
[22:23:14] <skunkworks> is this just not right? ;) http://imagebin.ca/img/H8Kyr3sZ.png
[22:23:41] <andypugh> I have never used VS, but I have done a _lot_ of VBA coding in Excel, and that IDE is actually quite nice (much as I hate to say it). The code-completion makes navigating a huge object library a lot nicer than it would otherwise be,
[22:24:21] <skunkworks> * skunkworks still does quite a bit in vba
[22:24:54] <MattyMatt> VB4 is the best marriage of language, gui and editor I've ever seen
[22:24:56] <andypugh> Using Xcode on the Mac to code for a remote Linux machine does pretty much preclude any breakpoint style debugging. VBA breakpoints are incredible, but then is is interpreted.
[22:25:18] <skunkworks> part of the reason I am putting xp on this machine... so I can install access97 :)
[22:25:33] <skunkworks> *msaccess97
[22:26:14] <MattyMatt> I still have VB4 on my 386
[22:27:10] <andypugh> If anyone ever tells me they want to learn OO programming I point them at Excel VBA. Because you have no choice but to be OO, everything you want to work with is an object, or a sub-object of an object. (And the level of access you have to them is surprising, you really can delete all the menus from Excel..)
[22:27:47] <MattyMatt> yeah Excel is neat
[22:28:28] <MattyMatt> OOo Darw wasn't as good as Visio, iirc
[22:28:33] <MattyMatt> ^Draw
[22:28:58] <MattyMatt> I dunno tho, it's pretty good
[22:29:44] <andypugh> I tried bit-bashing the P-port a few years ago (I would have used EMC for the job now) to synthesise a crank sensor signal for a test rig. Matlab managed 6Hz. Excel VBA managed 10kHz. I was astonished.
[22:30:06] <MattyMatt> Inkscape gets first billing as a free vector editor
[22:30:55] <MattyMatt> I bet it was Win98
[22:31:06] <andypugh> XP
[22:31:20] <MattyMatt> unless you got that special DLL with the signed driver
[22:31:50] <andypugh> It was that DLL, and I am pretty sure that was the difference. (inpout32.dll ?)
[22:32:01] <MattyMatt> sth like that
[22:32:20] <MattyMatt> in theory, emc2 could use that
[22:33:01] <MattyMatt> that'd give Mach 3 sth to worry about
[22:33:12] <skunkworks> I am using that as we speak.. using the printer port to flash a light for a pull system - through an access database.
[22:33:13] <andypugh> PCW, are ye there?
[22:34:44] <frallzor> is ndisgtk included in the dist on the live cd?
[22:34:50] <frallzor> 8.04 that is
[22:36:15] <PCW> Yep somewhat here (being Friday and all)
[22:36:38] <andypugh> This might be a bit technical for a friday.
[22:37:45] <andypugh> In your SoftDMC manual you suggest that B+C- will put the motor to a known state. I am trying to figure out what known state. Is that conventional motor 0 degrees?
[22:39:07] <PCW> 0 degrees electrical degrees phase not sure this has _any_ relationship to motor manufacturers reality however
[22:39:48] <PCW> (like index or resolver0 or hall codes)
[22:39:58] <andypugh> Initially I am trying to convert motor resolver position to hall signals to trapezoidal PWM. Once I have that working and understand it I am looking to move it off the Arduino into HAL and then into a sinusoidal function generator for the 3PPWM
[22:41:32] <andypugh> It might be telling that one document I have been reading basically says "try all 6 hall signal permutations, and find the one that works, being careful of the 2 that almost work.
[22:42:27] <andypugh> On my motors B+C- can be resolver zero (one of the 4 possible ones)
[22:43:31] <PCW> Yes even with sinusoiidal drive I think there are 8 combinations (with only one working)
[22:44:16] <PCW> other ones are lumpy or run away ISTR
[22:44:24] <andypugh> (which I think is meaningful, as it is a 6-pole motor so the 3 possible B+C- positions will only match one of the 4 resolver zeros)
[22:44:48] <PCW> right
[22:46:01] <andypugh> I hope to get a sinusoidal driver module for the 3PPWM done this weekend. Then we can start testng.
[22:46:07] <PCW> some resolvers have one electrical rotation for one motor 3 phase electrical rotation, some are 1 turn per electrical turn
[22:46:25] <andypugh> Yes, the driver needs to capture that.
[22:46:29] <PCW> (mechancal turn)
[22:46:58] <andypugh> My motor are three electrical per one mechanical and one resolver.
[22:47:22] <PCW> Resolver is one electrical/mechanical?
[22:47:28] <andypugh> I assume all that matters to a driver is the ratio between encoder/resolver and elctrical?
[22:48:08] <andypugh> No, one resolver turn is one mechanical turn, which is three electrical
[22:48:25] <PCW> right, thats all (and the motor phase vs resolver 0)
[22:49:34] <andypugh> Yes, I intend having that as a parameter. Later iterations might get to do a learn cycle, but that is getting rather technical.
[22:49:51] <PCW> 6 pole is sort of odd... We've got lots of 4 pole motors here, and i've seen some 12 for low speed (think step motor)
[22:50:50] <andypugh> I might be confusing myself. It is three electrical revs per physical rev.
[22:50:59] <PCW> Isn't there already some of the Park/Clark stuff as HAL comps?
[22:51:27] <andypugh> There is, but it looks less useful than I had hoped.
[22:51:57] <andypugh> No Park, 2 Clarks and an inverse Clarke
[22:52:29] <PCW> the 2 inverse transforms should do what you need for a voltage mode drive
[22:53:01] <andypugh> Rather than wire all of them together in HAL with some as-yet-unwritten trigonometry I think it might as well all be in one "motor controller" comp
[22:54:23] <PCW> And a full house will do complete FOC (assuming you can read 2 phase currents)
[22:54:25] <PCW> I rather like the parceled out way both a s a teaching tool and for flexibility but cant argue with someone actually writing code...
[22:54:40] <andypugh> The invclark wants x and y components, getting those from an encoder position is non-trivial in itself as HAL doesn't seem to have sine and cosine components.
[22:55:24] <PCW> invclark get its X,Y from invpark
[22:56:01] <andypugh> By the time you have wired the components together in HAL it will be confusing even to the guy who wired it, let alone anyone trying to learn
[22:56:30] <andypugh> inpark takes UVW, where does the actual motor position from the encoder get fed in?
[22:56:53] <andypugh> (sorry, by "inpark" I meant "InvClark"
[23:00:24] <andypugh> And, in fact, let me check, I am suddenly struck by self-doubt.
[23:02:04] <andypugh> Clark2 convers (a,b) to (x,y) by computing c.
[23:02:29] <PCW> I think (as well as possible on Friday afternoon) that inverse park takes D and Q and converts its to 2 phase
[23:02:30] <PCW> and inverse Clarke convert that to 3 phase
[23:02:52] <andypugh> Clark3 converts (a,b,c) to (x,y) + homopolar component
[23:03:24] <andypugh> And invclark converts (x,y) to (a,b,c).
[23:04:32] <andypugh> I am not clever enough to see how any of a,b,c,x,y is easily deduced from encoder counts.
[23:06:09] <andypugh> Though perhaps you can do the required 90 degree shift by swapping X and Y (with perhaps a negation)
[23:06:58] <PCW> No shift is needed (its done by summing the sines/cosines)
[23:07:32] <andypugh> Which sines/cosines?
[23:08:11] <PCW> sines/cosines of your rotor position (in the transforms)
[23:08:16] <andypugh> I think I am missing something very major here.
[23:11:03] <andypugh> We seem to have transforms in HAL between 2-phase and 3-phase systems. But our input data is an angle. (or a single number that can be made into an angle)
[23:11:19] <PCW> Classic FOC works like this:
[23:11:21] <PCW> Clarke for 3 phase to 2 phase
[23:11:23] <PCW> Park for derotate (resolve into D/Q D - pull towards stator, Q- pull at 90 degress = torque)
[23:11:24] <PCW> InvPark for re-rotate to 2 phase
[23:11:26] <PCW> InvCLarke for conversion of 2 phase back to 3
[23:12:16] <andypugh> We have no Park. (that I have spotted)
[23:12:53] <PCW> Dont need Park for voltage mode only
[23:13:14] <andypugh> All of the transforms seem trivial, too. So trivial that I am not sure much is gained by computing them explicitly.
[23:15:46] <PCW> Well sometimes you might want to do slight different things (like eliminate invClarke and use space vector instead of sinusoidal
[23:16:26] <andypugh> Given an encoder or resolver position, I am so far not seeing how that single number can be usefully used by the Clarke or inverse Clarke transforms.
[23:16:49] <PCW> here a nice description http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/bpra073/bpra073.pdf
[23:17:39] <PCW> the encoder justs give the theta to all transforms
[23:17:46] <PCW> (gives)
[23:18:05] <andypugh> That's the issue, none of the transforms wants a theta
[23:18:24] <PCW> Gots to have a theta
[23:19:40] <andypugh> That's my issue, I want to use theta, the transforms don't
[23:20:24] <PCW> If you don't know where you are, where are you?
[23:21:14] <andypugh> So I end up writing a sin/cos comp to comute (x,y) from theta/torque to pass to an invclark comp that does 2 lines of trivial arithmetic and hands me back an (a,b,c)
[23:22:05] <PCW> well your sin/cos comp is inv park!
[23:22:20] <andypugh> Which is yet to be written...
[23:24:36] <andypugh> I am probably being unclear. What I am saying is that I don't think that the existing invclark and clark components in HAL help all that much. They contain two lines of code that it will take 6 lines of HAL to connect.
[23:25:27] <andypugh> And we still need a Park transform to convert theta/torque to the 2-phase input that is required.
[23:25:46] <PCW> OK I just like stringing beads...
[23:26:26] <andypugh> I think we might as well have a single component that takes theta and torque as inputs and passes out A,B,C amplitudes.
[23:26:30] <PCW> You dont need Park for voltage mode. only inv Park
[23:27:33] <PCW> Clark and Park are needed if you do full FOC and measure the phase currents
[23:27:52] <andypugh> I am also considering another comp that takes Hall1,2,3 and torque and passes out A,B,C amplitudes.
[23:28:58] <andypugh> Well, that is a whole other question. The driver supports the acquisition trigger, do we have hardware to use it?
[23:28:59] <PCW> notice that its really voltage, not torque you have control of (unless you implement the full enchilada)
[23:29:40] <PCW> No but I will add a ACQ trigger in to the SPI module
[23:29:56] <andypugh> So all we need now is the SPI driver?
[23:30:15] <PCW> For Full FOC, yes
[23:31:26] <andypugh> Seb said he was going to do it but "not this spring or summer". I don't want to tread on toes, but it looks complex but straightforward.
[23:33:47] <PCW> Complexity is in supporting multiple devices, Another possibility is to use a fixed purpose hardware to present the A-D data
[23:33:49] <PCW> to the driver is a simple way (like the way the resolver interface and SSerial interface work (all gnarly details hidden)
[23:36:44] <andypugh> SPI is pin-addressed isn't it? So multiple devices is just defining the individual enable pins as GPIO and handling the per-instance data?
[23:37:37] <PCW> One possibility would be an extension of the raw read/raw write kludge to a multiple read/write driver
[23:37:39] <PCW> that could interface to arbitrary hardware (all per device complexity put in a HAL comp)
[23:38:06] <andypugh> (Each SPI channel can take it's defined enable line as a parameter, probably simpler than allocating pins at load-time)
[23:39:04] <PCW> There are 2 different SPI interfaces (SSPI and BSPI), SSPI is for one device/ SPI channel use and BSPI is for multiple device/SPI channel use
[23:41:34] <andypugh> Google is doing badly with BSPI
[23:42:39] <andypugh> Is it the case that all devices will still work with a "Oi! You over there!" line and the three comms lines?
[23:46:01] <andypugh> It occurs to me that we could support two completely different SPI driver paradigms, in much the same way as we support 3 or 4 different user interfaces.
[23:47:17] <andypugh> Now this is confusing:
[23:47:18] <andypugh> http://www.onewire.com/p_522-BSPI-Analyst.aspx
[23:47:53] <andypugh> onewire and BSPI, but _nothing_ to do with inter-device communications.
[23:56:32] <Jymmm> I2C has that