#emc | Logs for 2010-05-12

[00:06:20] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:46:50] <jimbo> I am working on trying to control my spindle speed with dac 03 on my 7i43 using hot_mot2. The wiki covers the older m5i20 driver and the names have changed. any help would be great.
[00:48:09] <JT-Hardinge> dmesg
[00:48:16] <JT-Hardinge> will list the names
[00:48:54] <JT-Hardinge> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//drivers_hostmot2.html
[00:59:18] <jimbo> Is PWMgen the same as DAC out on the m5i20? If so there are two outputs for each DAC, How does this equate to the wiki?
[00:59:19] <jimbo> I am try to figure out how this translates:
[00:59:21] <jimbo> net SpindleOn motion.spindle-on
[00:59:22] <jimbo> net spindle-rpm-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out
[00:59:24] <jimbo> setp m5i20.0.dac-03-gain [SPINDLE]DAC_SCALE
[00:59:25] <jimbo> linksp SpindleOn => m5i20.0.dac-03-enable
[00:59:27] <jimbo> linksp spindle-rpm-cmd => m5i20.0.dac-03-value
[00:59:28] <jimbo> setp m5i20.0.dac-03-offset 80
[01:02:30] <JT-Hardinge> that must be a very old example it still uses linksp
[01:02:58] <JT-Hardinge> the [SPINDLE]DAC_SCALE would most likely come from the ini file for that config
[01:05:06] <JT-Hardinge> does your spindle drive take 10v+-
[01:32:23] <JT-Hardinge> G2 in ZX plane goes CCW as viewed in Axis... is this correct?
[01:47:41] <jimbo> My drive takes a 0 to +10. Teco FM50
[01:53:36] <MattyMatt> JT-Harding it depends how you view it in Axis
[01:54:21] <MattyMatt> do you see the front of the XZ plane in the default view? I think you do
[01:54:43] <MattyMatt> in which case G2 is CW
[01:55:21] <MattyMatt> JT-Hardinge r
[02:44:31] <WesBaker> Am I on now?
[02:44:33] <WesBaker> OK
[02:44:56] <WesBaker> I am looking for some help on tuning my CNC router which has newly been configured with EMC.
[02:45:01] <WesBaker> The machine has servo motors.
[02:45:19] <WesBaker> We've got it jogging around and figured out how to tweak the PID parameters.
[02:45:39] <WesBaker> I have some familiarity with PID control.
[02:45:40] <WesBaker> My question is this:
[02:45:52] <WesBaker> How much following error is considered "normal"?
[02:46:20] <WesBaker> At what poing should I just quit and say "this is good enough"?
[02:46:29] <WesBaker> I'd like the machine to repeate within .001
[02:48:48] <WesBaker> Does a following error of .001 mean you can't count on the machine to stay within .001 if it traverses the same tool path twice at different Z depths?
[02:50:37] <WesBaker> Anybody on?
[02:53:53] <WesBaker> Hello.
[03:43:24] <Valen> following error is the difference between the commanded position and the actual position
[04:03:25] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[04:57:21] <elmo40> may not be EMC related... but still nice home-built lathe tool changer :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcEBfJLgZXE
[05:17:32] <dcassyc1> How to setup EMC to run a mill after running step.conf
[06:17:41] <Valen> SWPadnos got a minute to chat about combining motor encoders with linear scales?
[06:34:49] <awallin> Valen: would you use nested PID loops, or how would you do that?
[06:37:40] <Valen> awallin thats the 64 cent question ;->
[06:57:36] <awallin> Valen: do you have a machine with both motor feedback and scales?
[07:12:59] <Valen> at the moment we are just using scales, but there is some backlash between the screw and the table moving
[07:13:08] <Valen> causing some nasty overshoot on Z
[07:27:01] <archivist> backlash is a bit of a killer to a control loop
[07:37:05] <Valen> yeah its not too bad on the other axies
[07:37:15] <Valen> I'm not sure where its coming from really
[09:29:03] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:02:49] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:36:48] <bogie> bogie is now known as mk0
[10:59:33] <JT-Dev> Is a G2 supposed to go CCW in the XZ G18 plane and CW in the XY G17 plane?
[11:01:23] <mk0> just try it )
[11:02:37] <mk0> erhhh i've just updated to 2.4.0 and i cannot write in MDI window
[11:03:26] <JT-Dev> I've been using 2.4 for some time now and have no problem with MDI
[11:03:35] <alex_joni> mk0: since JT-Dev is our main documentation guy, I doubt just try it will work in this case ;)
[11:03:56] <JT-Dev> mornging alex_joni
[11:03:59] <JT-Dev> morning
[11:04:42] <alex_joni> hi JT-Dev
[11:05:40] <mk0> ahaha i didn't know sorry
[11:06:02] <mk0> upgraded i mean
[11:14:43] <JT-Dev> anyhow I noticed that while porting ArcBuddy from G17 plane to G18 plane for lathes and testing the output code on the lathe sim and on the Hardinge
[11:35:01] <cradek> JT-Dev: if you have a lathe where positive X is away from you, G2 will look clockwise. If you have a lathe where positive X is toward you, G2 will look counterclockwise.
[11:35:55] <cradek> for the HNC if you think of a right handed coordinate system you will see that Y (if you had it) points toward the floor. If you lay on the floor and look at your arcs they will look CW/CCW as you expect.
[11:36:12] <JT-Dev> ok, thanks
[11:37:12] <cradek> (causes a lot of confusion, unfortunately)
[11:37:35] <JT-Dev> yes it does... I'll try and add something to the manual to clear it up a bit
[11:37:47] <piasdom> is there something i can add to my source list to have emc2 update/upgrade when i use apt-get ?
[11:39:26] <cradek> g41/g42 might look backwards on your lathe too, since you are "underneath" the XZ plane when you look at it normally
[11:39:26] <cradek> bbl
[11:39:36] <JT-Dev> ok, thanks
[11:42:13] <JT-Dev> ok I get it now the view is as viewed from the positive end of the axis about which the rotation occurs
[11:45:08] <awallin> piasdom: take a look at http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh it modifies sources.list and then does the install with apt-get
[11:45:31] <awallin> looks like that emc2-install.sh is for 2.3
[11:46:22] <piasdom> awallin; thanks
[11:46:52] <mk0> why so complicated?
[11:47:01] <mk0> synaptic
[11:51:41] <piasdom> i have 2.3 now
[11:53:08] <JT-Dev> piasdom: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.4
[11:54:17] <mk0> definetely
[11:55:30] <piasdom> JT-Dev; thanks
[11:55:45] <awallin> for sale at some local place http://img202.imageshack.us/i/004pyl.jpg/ haha :) looks scary
[12:01:10] <mk0> i'd say sex y
[12:03:35] <elmo40> has a digital readout
[12:03:56] <elmo40> and something else... wonder what the second electrical box is for.
[12:05:28] <elmo40> you see the safety cover over the controls? it slides over the chuck, passes a switch, before you can use it. Smart.
[12:51:34] <ries> hey all, in this thread : http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/geckodrive/message/18399
[12:51:56] <ries> They guy from Gecko drives says that a stepper motor can stop in each micro positions, did anybody ever measure that?
[13:00:55] <awallin> I guess it's possible to stop, but starting again from that micropos there will be torque ripple
[13:01:08] <awallin> i.e. the available torque will depend on the position
[13:01:11] <awallin> IIRC...
[13:05:36] <SWPadnos> the gecko drievs will attempt to push the motor to a particular microstep position, but any torque applied against the motor will change the actual rest position
[13:05:57] <SWPadnos> so there will be 10 places where the motor stops, but they may not be equally spaced, and they will vary with load
[13:14:04] <ries> awallin: I just found this : http://www.micromo.com/n391003/n.html it explains it very well
[13:15:04] <ries> SWPadnos: exactly what you said.. on the Mechmate forum there is some confusion that microstepping increases resolution, but that's not really the case
[13:15:41] <SWPadnos> it does increase resolution, but not necessarily accuracy and precision :)
[13:16:10] <SWPadnos> even full step positions aren't immune to deflection from applied torque
[13:16:14] <ries> Ahh yes... I was using the wrong words
[13:17:41] <elmo40> SWPadnos: you mean to say that a step of a stepper motor is not uniform? "SWPadnos: so there will be 10 places where the motor stops, but they may not be equally spaced"
[13:18:07] <herron> microsteps can be very non uniform
[13:18:08] <SWPadnos> I meant to say that a microstep of a step motor is not (necessarily) uniform
[13:18:58] <SWPadnos> microstep position is dependent on the drive and motor construction, as well as torque load
[13:22:55] <ries> elmo40: read the link I send and that will clear up a lot of confusion
[13:22:59] <ries> at least it did for me
[13:23:11] <elmo40> that is crazy. then why would anyone use a stepper for CNC? then again, not like a step that is 1.8deg or 1.78deg really translates to anything measurably different... but still.
[13:23:32] <SWPadnos> they're cheap
[13:23:45] <SWPadnos> and don't need encoders
[13:24:02] <SWPadnos> and are easy to get your head around - no PID tuning or anything
[13:25:36] <elmo40> and good enough for my tiny lathe ;)
[13:25:37] <herron> elmo40, base your accuracy around whole steps
[13:25:47] <ries> elmo40: that's why people use ballscrews and belt reductions, the main intend of micro stepping is to give it a smoother ride
[13:26:25] <elmo40> I base it on a multitude of factors. play, pitch, load, spindle accuracy, latency... many things. Then I adjust accordingly.
[13:34:23] <JT-Work> elmo40: I used steppers on my CNC plasma cutter and I'm not crazy I think
[14:27:44] <elmo40> that is insane talk ;)
[15:26:57] <alex_joni> http://www.surplex.com/de/maschinen/aehnliche-maschinen,7,butler-te-3000-bettfraesmaschine-91580.html
[15:27:25] <ries> huy guys, my PROGRAM_PREFIX is set to /home/rvt/emc2/nc_files , when I have a file in my nc_files directory I still cannot call it using a MDI command, is there a other prefix directory I should be aware of?
[15:28:09] <alex_joni> how do you call it? and how is it named?
[15:28:59] <ries> I am trying to call it like this : o<mm_rapid_to_home> call mm_rapid_to_home.ngc
[15:31:02] <ries> it worked in the emc run in place version...
[15:47:33] <mikegg> hey guys, how do you change the number of significant digits displayed in Axis?
[15:47:41] <mikegg> for the machine position that is
[15:48:41] <awallin> it probably shows a fixed number of decimals
[15:48:46] <awallin> not significant digits...
[15:48:58] <awallin> yes it should be possible to change, I don't remember how...
[15:49:35] <cradek> it shows .0001 in and .001 mm. what do you want it to show?
[15:50:00] <mikegg> .0001 mm would be great
[15:50:30] <cradek> you want it to show a tenth of a micron? what kind of machine?
[15:50:39] <mikegg> i've got 400,000 count per inch encoders
[15:51:21] <mikegg> the machine is a bit of a home brew
[15:52:02] <cradek> well you'd have to edit the source to get that, not sure how complex it is (it may screw up surrounding stuff that assumes a certain length of string)
[15:52:07] <mikegg> 400,000 counts per inch is like 0.06 microns per count
[15:52:29] <mikegg> hmm
[15:52:35] <cradek> sure, but it seems silly to show that except *maybe* during tuning. if you actually wanted to show feedback position, it would never sit still
[15:52:51] <mikegg> true
[15:52:58] <mikegg> would be hard to read
[15:53:35] <cradek> my mill dithers one count (one micron) when sitting still and I find that irritating, so I show commanded position instead
[15:54:56] <mikegg> I can just use halmeter to watch the number of counts...
[15:55:02] <mikegg> thanks guys!
[15:55:42] <cradek> yep for tuning halmeter/halscope is best
[15:56:42] <JT-Work> cradek: the Hardinge does the same thing on the Z only... I assumed it was the worn out belt as the X does not do it and has a new belt
[16:21:12] <tom3p> anyone have success building vmware server on 8.04 lts 2.6.24-16-rtai?
[16:22:08] <tom3p> make that 'success running' ( i can build it just reboots after a while )
[16:25:05] <atmega> non-emc related, but... I have a stepper hooked up to a parker drive running in constant velocity. SOmetimes, it seemingly randomly changes direction, any ideas?
[16:28:13] <tom3p> if the drive is step & direction, monitor the direction line for valid signal levels
[16:31:47] <cradek> what do you mean by running in constant velocity?
[16:36:02] <mozmck_work> Also check that the polarity of the step signals going to the drive is correct. I've seen that problem with gecko drives when feeding them the wrong polarity.
[16:37:19] <atmega> cradek: for the parker indexer, you just tell it to run in velocity mode and give it a speed, it takes care of the rest
[16:37:55] <atmega> the step/dir cable between the indexer and the drive is a molded OEM cable, db25 screwed in on both sides
[16:38:13] <atmega> I swapped indexer ports and drives... the problem stayed with the motor
[16:39:08] <atmega> seems like magic... I can't imagine anything specific to the motor/cable that would do that
[16:40:59] <mozmck_work> So when you switched drives you switched cables? It could be an intermittent cable/wiring problem.
[16:42:06] <atmega> took the motor cable off on drive and stuck it on the other
[16:42:36] <atmega> the motor wiring leaves somthign to be desired, but I can't see how a short/open could make it go backwards
[16:42:53] <atmega> unless one pair opened one way and shorted the other
[16:51:37] <tom3p> does suspect motor feel same as 'good' motor when not under power? ( slowly rotate each 360 degrees )
[17:22:18] <skunkworks_> http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=773835&postcount=8
[17:42:13] <MattyMatt> for milling an outline in passes, would that be better as a canned cycle or as a subroutine?
[17:44:36] <MattyMatt> afaics, both could be made to work, but which is usual?
[17:46:37] <PCW> skunkworks: I saw that post, some 'missing' things on the list are obviously doable but may require some thinking and HAL work...
[17:47:11] <andypugh> Which post?
[17:47:12] <cradek> the mouse complaint is certainly not true anymore (I'm not sure it ever was)
[17:47:31] <cradek> a *keyboard* used to certainly be required and has the same "not ideal" problem
[17:49:18] <PCW> I didn't think a mouse was required
[17:49:20] <PCW> anypugh: http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=773835&postcount=8
[17:50:14] <MattyMatt> aw no direct tool table editing
[17:50:34] <cradek> if he means no gui, that is also no longer true
[17:50:49] <cradek> if he means while a program is running, it is definitely true
[17:51:27] <andypugh> Monitoring spindle load would be easy enough, and I am sure some people are doing it.
[17:51:34] <cradek> sure
[17:52:00] <andypugh> In fact I know somebody it doing it. I remember the post on the mailing list.
[17:52:12] <cradek> I'm not sure what it would even mean to have that built in
[17:52:19] <JT-Work> my Hardinge does that with a meter or you could do it with pyvcp
[17:52:29] <cradek> by NOT having it built in, you can do all sorts of things, like hook a load threshold up to optional stop
[17:52:41] <PCW> I think awallin used that nice bar or round meter for spindle load
[17:52:59] <cradek> my yasnac had an analog meter for spindle load readout
[17:53:24] <andypugh> We could so with a better way to get analogue data in. SPI would be great.
[17:53:26] <cradek> (the retrofit would too, if I bothered to wire it up to the vfd)
[17:53:35] <MattyMatt> I need x/y load sensors, to keep an eye on my flexing
[17:54:08] <MattyMatt> my spindle doesn't slow down, but it waggles :)
[17:54:33] <cradek> haha sorry
[17:54:38] <andypugh> Though I guess voltage-frequency is more parsimomious with IO lines than SPI
[17:55:13] <cradek> anyway, some/most of what Wes says is true, I'm not picking on him
[17:55:28] <bill2or3> glue a laser pointer to it, aimed across the room.
[17:55:35] <bill2or3> if the dot moves, it's waggling.
[17:55:42] <andypugh> I think Wes is conflating the abilities of software with the abilities of integrated hardware/software systems.
[17:56:10] <PCW> andtpugh: Maybe depending on the number of channels, >2 is better with SPI muxed A-D chip
[17:56:19] <MattyMatt> billzors, neat idea for measuring it
[17:56:42] <bill2or3> the bigger the room, the more amplification of movement you'll see.
[17:56:43] <MattyMatt> I have a laser already
[17:56:52] <bill2or3> everything is better after you add lasers.
[17:57:08] <cradek> andypugh: on some of those, I think he meant something more specific than what he said (like the spindle load one)
[17:57:15] <cradek> I can't guess what exactly he meant
[17:57:54] <andypugh> But there is the hook to tie adaptive feed to spindle load. What else would you want?
[17:58:24] <PCW> If you could run the spindle as a torque mode servo, you get the load directly
[17:58:30] <eric_unterhausen> is a mouse really required for axis?
[17:58:47] <cradek> andypugh: stop and ask for a new tool when the load gets too high, maybe
[17:59:16] <cradek> andypugh: either way, the hooks are there - you just need to set it up how you want it.
[17:59:47] <andypugh> And I doubt you can dive into the source-code of a Yasnac and make it do stuff that you want.
[18:00:13] <cradek> well, he didn't say that
[18:00:49] <cradek> (but, yeah)
[18:01:47] <cradek> people have mentioned limiting the G1 feed to some value lower than G0. I think this is a holdover from very old systems that didn't coordinate motion for rapids, but people seem to want it. it would be easy to add if anyone cared to.
[18:01:58] <andypugh> I wonder how much work it would be to write an M100 script to give an infinite number of work offsets?
[18:02:24] <cradek> andypugh: I don't think that would be a reasonable way to try to tackle the problem
[18:02:37] <andypugh> It isn't a _reasonable_ cpmplaint :-)
[18:03:07] <cradek> andypugh: adding "more" work offsets would certainly be possible with some work. Adding an infinite number, I'm not so sure about.
[18:03:45] <andypugh> Yeah, you probably want to limit the number to a u32 :-)
[18:03:54] <MattyMatt> or 99999
[18:04:08] <archivist> or what fits in a database
[18:04:29] <KimK> Hi Chris, Hi Andy. Haas I think uses G154 and you get G154 what, P1 through P199?
[18:04:33] <MattyMatt> I am NOT putting sql in my gcode :)
[18:05:04] <elmo40> lol.
[18:05:24] <elmo40> but you can call a file with SQL to EMC, can't you ?
[18:05:32] <andypugh> It might make the touch-off drop-down a bit long
[18:05:41] <tom3p> heidenhain used loadabale table of offsets ( Datum tables) and each allowed 99999 5axis offsets.
[18:05:42] <tom3p> you could have multiple table tho. just refer to table and index.
[18:06:38] <cradek> the simplest small change would be to add g59.4 ... g59.9
[18:06:44] <cradek> frankly I don't know why they stopped at 3
[18:06:48] <MattyMatt> I'm putting 3d tool offset in this blender script
[18:07:05] <cradek> anything more, you've got to do a bunch more work to get new gcodes to manipulate stuff
[18:07:53] <elmo40> MattyMatt: why 3D? isn't there only Diameter and Length?
[18:08:14] <Guest203> hello
[18:08:20] <cradek> our tool offsets are now 9d + length
[18:08:25] <cradek> hi Guest203
[18:08:29] <JT-Work> hi
[18:08:31] <MattyMatt> nope ballmills are shorter away from the center
[18:08:57] <cradek> MattyMatt: depends where you set the controlled point. sometimes it makes sense to use the center of the radius.
[18:09:10] <cradek> (lathe tools have a similar problem)
[18:09:30] <JT-Work> how's that?
[18:09:38] <MattyMatt> I'm only worrying about milling for new
[18:09:41] <MattyMatt> now
[18:09:57] <JT-Work> but I worry about both :) now
[18:09:58] <Dave911> Valen: Check out this Wiki page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis
[18:10:55] <Guest203> I am trying to set up emc for the first time, I do not have write permission to the needed setup files and need to log in as root to give myself permision to do so, anyone know the defult roon password of the live cd versions of emc?
[18:11:13] <MattyMatt> this is a milling script. mGcodeGenerator only does 2.5d, so it treats the tool end as a patch of z offsets
[18:11:19] <Guest203> root password
[18:11:21] <JT-Work> there is no default password AFAIK
[18:11:33] <cradek> Guest203: when you run emc, you get the option to copy a sample config into your home directory. you DO NOT want to edit the files where they are.
[18:11:33] <elmo40> Guest203: use 'sudo'
[18:11:58] <cradek> Guest203: yes, ubuntu uses sudo, but stop and read what I wrote first
[18:13:06] <MattyMatt> afaics "2d/2.5d bake" is roughing, and "3d bake" is surfacing, but it's all a 2.5 operation
[18:14:02] <elmo40> so, not quite 3D?
[18:14:13] <elmo40> 2.5 means z offsetting?
[18:14:32] <MattyMatt> in my understanding yeah
[18:14:43] <Dave911> I think I found the limits of EMC2 v 2.4 last night......
[18:15:08] <Dave911> I put it on my lathe and was running it and I think I ran out of CPU power
[18:15:26] <MattyMatt> if you zigzag the whole x,y plane looking for z offsets, that's 2.5d
[18:15:34] <Dave911> What really caused problems was bringing up the tool editor while running
[18:16:11] <Dave911> It seems to eat up quite a few resources and that apparently deprived the classic ladder enough time to run modbus which caused more problems
[18:16:31] <Dave911> Also ... what does it mean when a program goes into zombie state?
[18:17:10] <Dave911> The tooleditor ended up having multiple copies loaded but they were all in zombie state by the time I looked at the resource monitor
[18:17:27] <Guest203> I am using the Wizard to setup the ports and steps as well as speeds and acceleration, it complains that the pipe is broken, I thought it did not have write permision
[18:17:48] <MattyMatt> it's when a program fails to respond to signals, short of SIGKILL I think, that'll still kill 'em
[18:17:58] <Guest203> what does the warning message mean?
[18:18:34] <Dave911> I ended up rebooting the computer afterwards and I used gedit to look at the tool table later and I didn't have any other problems other than modbus timing out once in a while.
[18:19:12] <Guest203> I am setting up the program in my office and it is not connected to the machine, is this a problem?
[18:19:33] <Dave911> So I think the tooleditor may be hogging resources?? And then at some point going into zombie state.. I have some screen shots of the resource page of the system monitor if anyone would like to see them..
[18:19:35] <JT-Work> not with stepconf wizard
[18:20:30] <JT-Work> Guest203: your using the Stepconf Wizard?
[18:20:54] <Guest203> yes
[18:20:55] <Dave911> Mattymatt.. ok that is what I thought... the program is still loaded in memory but who knows what it is doing ?? I guess...
[18:21:05] <Guest203> but was trying the test option
[18:21:15] <JT-Work> to test an axis?
[18:21:20] <Guest203> U guess that needs to be conected to machine to work
[18:21:41] <JT-Work> at least have a parallel port
[18:22:01] <Guest203> I do
[18:22:53] <JT-Work> what is the error message and when do you see it?
[18:25:28] <Dave911> On this lathe I am doing step and direction which I know burns up a lot of CPU time. I'm going to use a Mesa 7i43 and get rid of the base thread. I need to do that anyway as I want to make full use of the spindle encoder to do threading at high speed and do feed per rev at high speed.
[18:26:09] <Guest203> Stepconf encountered an error. The following information may be useful in troubleshooting:
[18:26:48] <Guest203> that is when I change a setting in the test box
[18:27:15] <Guest203> but it looks to be OK when I make changes in the main setup box
[18:28:06] <MattyMatt> test axes didn't work for me properly either. I could only do the X axis
[18:28:30] <JT-Work> did it give you any information?
[18:28:44] <MattyMatt> not iirc
[18:29:16] <Guest203> just the error message I posted
[18:29:49] <eric_unterhausen> Cradek: do you have a web page on touchy?
[18:30:02] <JT-Work> eric_unterhausen: it's in the manual
[18:30:03] <JT-Work> too
[18:31:36] <JT-Work> Guest203: I'm not sure what that might be... I'm on a windoz machine here so I can't try it out.
[18:31:44] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: there's some stuff in our docs
[18:32:22] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_touchy.html
[18:33:45] <Guest203> I am converting from Mach to EMC, I know the steps for mach, how do I get that in EMC?
[18:34:19] <Guest203> it asks for steps per motor rev and driver micro stepping
[18:34:20] <cradek> sorry, you'll have to ask a more specific question
[18:34:26] <JT-Work> I've never used mach...
[18:34:43] <cradek> oh you mean steps per inch?
[18:34:45] <JT-Work> what kind of driver do you have?
[18:35:58] <celeron55> he probably already knows the value that stepconf would calculate from that stuff
[18:36:17] <Guest203> yes, how do you work out steps per inch in EMC?
[18:36:33] <JT-Work> yea, steps/user unit is the final number
[18:36:43] <celeron55> you could just type something so them and after completing the wizard, change them to the config file by hand
[18:36:56] <Guest203> it asks for motor steps and driver micro stepping and screw pitch
[18:36:59] <celeron55> s/so them/to them/
[18:37:14] <Guest203> is there some easy way to just put in steps per inch?
[18:37:16] <JT-Work> how many revs per inch ( assuming inch)
[18:37:31] <JT-Work> I think you can
[18:37:38] <Dave911> The steps per inch can be directly entered into the ini file
[18:37:47] <cradek> Guest203: it shows the calculated steps per inch on the screen. just fiddle with the numbers until that's right. all those questions are supposed to help you calculate it.
[18:37:57] <Dave911> Look for the axis, look for scale ... and that is where the number goes
[18:38:10] <cradek> (many people could not calculate the steps per inch from that other information without help)
[18:38:23] <Dave911> true
[18:38:27] <Guest203> ok
[18:38:32] <Guest203> thanks for the help
[18:38:36] <celeron55> or just select 1 inch per rev, no microstepping and X steps per revolution, where X is your steps/inch value :P
[18:39:29] <Guest203> lol
[18:39:31] <Guest203> cool
[18:39:38] <Guest203> that was a big help
[18:39:46] <Guest203> simple
[18:39:56] <Dave911> Then gear your machine so that setting works! ;-)
[18:41:24] <Guest203> it is/was a working lathe, but mach kept crashing on lathe but works well for mill
[18:41:52] <Guest203> I am going to chang over both lathe and mill to EMC
[18:42:15] <Guest203> mach has tons of problems with it
[18:42:30] <Dave911> Guest203 ... I have first hand experience with Mach's behavior on lathes ... not pretty
[18:42:40] <Guest203> even mill is not right but tons better then lathe
[18:42:41] <eric_unterhausen> UWP_Wes seems obsessed with the mouse issue
[18:43:07] <Dave911> Yes .. at one point Art said that Mach really wasn't good for lathes .... seriously
[18:44:04] <Dave911> In Mach land .... the lathe is like the ugly stepchild ...
[18:44:54] <Guest203> they just found a hugh problem with threading, it was broken from the start of mach, it was so bad they were amased it worked at all
[18:45:14] <Dave911> Of course if you just wait for version 4..... ;-)
[18:45:14] <Guest203> they are tring to fix it and they are messing things up big time
[18:46:03] <Dave911> There is a thread on the the Mach forum that is well over a year long .... with really no good end results ...
[18:46:28] <Guest203> hugh logic errors in there threading, and no proper timeing between mach the machs driver
[18:46:54] <Guest203> yes
[18:47:03] <Dave911> right ... there are some built in problems .. that really can't be overcome the way the software is designed
[18:47:23] <skunkworks_> Guest203: glad you came to the 'dark side' as art calls it. ;)
[18:47:48] <cradek> haha
[18:47:52] <Dave911> That USB board, the smooth stepper I have heard can do ok threading .. I have been told
[18:49:31] <skunkworks_> Guest203: put an encoder on your spindle and you can rigid tap also.. (emc is much better at realtime control of things)
[18:49:54] <Dave911> They really didn't give me much choice .. there were no real plans to really fix lathe threading (the right way) and a host of other issues ....
[18:50:00] <Guest203> I am amased at what EMC can do for threading, saw a vid of threding demo, 3 dia steps 3 different pitches all one cut
[18:51:22] <Dave911> Watch out for skunkworks as I think he is a convert also ... actually you will find that a lot of people here know a lot about Mach3 .... and have the scars to prove it ....
[18:51:23] <Guest203> no real world use but one hell of a impressive demo
[18:51:41] <Guest203> lol
[18:51:44] <Guest203> me to
[18:51:47] <archivist> that was for a real use
[18:52:18] <cradek> if it's the video I'm thinking of, it was to make a device like a fusee
[18:52:37] <Guest203> resisted the dark side, but got tired of the scars, broken tools and pure frustrations
[18:52:43] <skunkworks_> Dave911: never touched mach. done a bunch of reading though.
[18:52:53] <archivist> I get stories from a mach implementer :)
[18:53:45] <Dave911> Oh ok, sorry ... I thought you had ... you do seem to know a lot about Mach3 though .....
[18:54:29] <Dave911> My psychotherapist is well aware of Mach3's issues also .. ;-)
[18:55:04] <dgarr> Dave911: please post the screenshots you mentioned somewhere. were you using axis or tkemc or something else?
[18:55:31] <Guest203> lol
[18:55:35] <Dave911> dgarr: will do .. one moment .. using axis
[18:56:10] <Dave911> http://img202.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=screenshotxke.png
[18:56:11] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/M-x-doctor.png
[18:57:05] <cradek> Dave911: you could install emacs and save yourself some money
[18:57:29] <Guest203> for me it is my wife, she hears me swearing at mach all the time, she knows full well of my hatred for mach when it misbehaves, one of it more not so rare things it likes to do
[18:57:44] <Dave911> cradek: Watch out !!! That is the Mach3 psychotherapist!!! Bad dude ..
[18:59:04] <Guest203> so the vid I thought was a demo vid is not? that part is for a real world device?
[18:59:50] <Dave911> Mach3 in the right application works ok (just ok..). But don't do VB, use the Parallel port, keep it super simple and you might be ok. Threading is a definite no-no.
[19:00:11] <Guest203> wow, what in the world would need a multi pitch multi thread dia 3 step part like that all cut in one pass?
[19:00:42] <skunkworks_> clocks use them (fusee)
[19:01:11] <Guest203> will have to look that up
[19:01:14] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusee_%28horology%29
[19:01:16] <skunkworks_> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/fusee-1.html
[19:02:27] <Dave911> cradek: Is that *doctor* and actual add in for Emacs??
[19:02:41] <cradek> Dave911: it's installed by default
[19:02:43] <dgarr> Dave911: the screenshot shows 13 tooledit zombies -- did you start and exit it that many times?
[19:03:03] <Dave911> OK.. didn't know that .... :-)
[19:03:11] <Dave911> dgarr Yes
[19:03:29] <Dave911> I was setting up the tools in my tool turret
[19:03:54] <Dave911> Obviously it never really unloaded from memory
[19:04:13] <Dave911> However I could always pull up another copy ..
[19:05:05] <Dave911> Then EMC2 started getting really unstable .... ie the jog arrow keys on the keyboard would function in MDI mode !! Really wierd
[19:06:07] <dgarr> ok -- i may have inadvertently fixed that when i made a different change that is pending, you can try this copy if you want, i think it doesn't leave zombies
[19:06:10] <dgarr> http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/tooledit
[19:06:41] <Dave911> Once I figured out that tooledit was doing that .. I started peeking at it with gedit only ... no further problems ..
[19:06:59] <Dave911> OK... thanks! I'll try that out and see if that fixes the problem
[19:08:36] <dgarr> also, at least on my machines,system monitor is kind of a hog, top in a shell is nicer
[19:09:39] <micges> dgarr: htop is better
[19:10:15] <Dave911> system monitor is a total hog.... I've used htop before but I couldn't remember the name last night..
[19:10:24] <dgarr> micges: i agree (top comes with the distro, sudo apt-get install htop)
[19:11:19] <Dave911> I'll try this version of tooledit tomorrow when I am at the machine again before changing anything else and I will let you know what happens . Thanks!
[19:13:39] <Dave911> Classic ladder logic runs in a realtime thread I believe. But I believe that the Modbus implementation runs in a userspace thread (tell me if I am wrong! ). Is there anyway to make Modbus run in a real time thread also??
[19:14:08] <Dave911> It seems like Modbus can get bumped way back in priority depending on what other programs are running
[19:16:18] <Guest203> does EMC need to be connected to a machine to start up?
[19:16:52] <Guest203> I have finished the setup, but ENC errors when started
[19:17:30] <Guest203> I know one can setup sims, but I have setup a real lathe
[19:18:15] <JT-Work> Guest203: if you have a stepper machine usually you don't need the hardware
[19:18:19] <Dave911> Actually what may be happening is what you can see on the system monitor pages I posted "poll schedule timeout" etc
[19:18:37] <Dave911> Guest203 -- what is the error
[19:18:37] <Guest203> BTW, what is the defult root user password for the live cd installs?
[19:18:37] <JT-Work> what is the error?
[19:18:46] <JT-Work> there is none
[19:19:00] <JT-Work> you have to give one when you install
[19:19:39] <JT-Work> my favorite password is *********
[19:19:53] <Dave911> Now the entire world knows ;-)
[19:20:01] <JT-Work> OH No!
[19:20:33] <JT-Work> Guest203: if it is a lot of text use pastebin
[19:20:45] <skunkworks_> pastebin.ca works great
[19:21:01] <JT-Work> it's been down a lot lately for some reason for me
[19:22:13] <JT-Work> I get 500 - Internal Server Error for pastebin.ca
[19:22:30] <Guest203> it is very big
[19:22:55] <JT-Work> pastebin.com is working
[19:23:06] <Guest203> was thinking on posting the last section, the debug section
[19:23:13] <JT-Work> copy and paste the text here and post the link
[19:23:33] <JT-Work> I paste to pastebin.com
[19:24:00] <skunkworks_> huh - ca is down.
[19:24:00] <JT-Work> I meant to paste to pastebin.com gee can't even type today
[19:24:21] <JT-Work> skunkworks_: been down the last few times I've tried to use it
[19:24:23] <Dave911> ca is down ... that is what I am seeing also ....
[19:24:32] <skunkworks_> well - not the whole of canada - but pastebin.ca.
[19:24:49] <Dave911> are you sure ??? ;-)
[19:26:53] <Guest203> http://pastebin.com/Bhg1BnyE
[19:30:12] <Guest203> that is a cool website
[19:30:21] <Guest203> did not know about it
[19:32:32] <JT-Work> Guest203: you can't have spaces in the config name
[19:32:58] <cradek> looks to me like you already had emc or the latency test running
[19:33:03] <cradek> you can only run one at a time
[19:33:37] <Guest203> thanks
[19:34:19] <JT-Work> Guest203: Machine Name
[19:34:21] <JT-Work> Choose a name for your machine. Use only uppercase letters, lowercase letters, digits, "-" and "_".
[19:34:39] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_stepconf.html#sub:Basic-Information
[19:48:00] <Guest203> ok fixed it and it now works
[19:48:06] <Guest203> still have errors
[19:48:17] <skunkworks_> errors?
[19:48:19] <JT-Work> fixed what?
[19:49:13] <Guest203> rtapi:error unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[19:49:33] <JT-Work> did you do the latency test?
[19:49:46] <Guest203> fixed the name
[19:49:52] <Guest203> yes
[19:51:33] <Guest203> I used the Wizard to set things up
[19:51:49] <Guest203> did not see where to put the test info
[19:52:19] <Guest203> the Wizard had some test for delays inside of it and I ran that
[19:53:18] <Guest203> so how do I use the latency test info?
[19:54:38] <JT-Work> you enter the number into the wizard
[19:55:12] <Guest203> base period max jitter?
[19:55:26] <JT-Work> yes
[19:55:45] <JT-Work> then that will calculate the max step rate based on that
[19:55:47] <Guest203> it had a test button and I pressed it
[19:56:20] <JT-Work> you need to let it run for a while to see if you have any sneaky things going on
[19:56:24] <skunkworks_> rigth above the test button is a field to enter the max jitter.
[19:56:28] <JT-Work> and play with a few things
[19:57:27] <skunkworks_> Guest203: what do you get when testing your latency? (what max jitter numbers do you get)
[19:58:38] <andypugh> Guest203: Intel motherboard?
[19:58:45] <Guest203> base thread 229789
[19:59:01] <skunkworks_> ouch.
[19:59:06] <andypugh> That's scary-bad
[19:59:07] <Guest203> the Wizard will only go to 50000
[19:59:39] <JT-Work> Guest203: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[20:00:34] <JT-Work> and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[20:01:12] <andypugh> Guest203: Note that you can skip nearly all the stuff on that SMI page, go straight to section 7 if you are fairly sure that is the issue.
[20:01:16] <JT-Work> and here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[20:17:07] <Guest203> I have the file in edit, have made changes, but now it will not let me save
[20:17:22] <Guest203> I do not have permision to make changes
[20:17:26] <JT-Work> which file?
[20:17:38] <Guest203> sure would like the root password for this machine
[20:17:46] <JT-Work> what did you save it as?
[20:17:56] <Guest203> same name
[20:18:00] <Guest203> just doing a save
[20:18:04] <JT-Work> you don't need any passwords to edit a config
[20:18:11] <JT-Work> what file are you editing?
[20:18:41] <JT-Work> when you installed Ubuntu what password did you use?
[20:18:43] <celeron55> on ubuntu you are supposed to use 'sudo', when you'd run a command using root on some other distro, on ubuntu you run that command by prepending it with 'sudo', like 'sudo vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[20:18:47] <celeron55> '
[20:19:06] <celeron55> and it will ask your own password
[20:19:15] <JT-Work> you still need to remember the root password you gave it during the install
[20:19:15] <celeron55> not root's
[20:19:45] <JT-Work> any way you don't need any password to edit a config file
[20:19:51] <Guest203> /etc/emc2/rtapi.conf
[20:20:03] <JT-Work> that one you do use
[20:20:21] <JT-Work> sudo gedit /etc/emc2/rtapi.conf
[20:20:23] <JT-Work> I think
[20:20:41] <JT-Work> might be a switch for gedit too
[20:20:48] <JT-Work> can't remember
[20:22:45] <Guest203> can not see a switch in the config of gedit
[20:22:57] <JT-Work> open a terminal window
[20:23:27] <JT-Work> read this first http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_Linux_FAQ.html
[20:23:51] <JT-Work> all you need to know to be dangerous :)
[20:32:07] <andypugh> Might be simpler to save the edit to somewhere you can save to, then sudo cp it to where it needs to go.
[20:37:45] <andypugh> I wonder what happened to Guests 204-213?
[20:40:59] <celeron55> the nicks seem to be random
[20:41:07] <celeron55> hit f5 on this page http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_mospjirc/Itemid,8/lang,english/
[20:42:22] <alex_joni> cradek: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/12/watch_auction/
[20:44:50] <MrSunshine_> MrSunshine_ is now known as MrSunshine
[20:54:03] <MattyMatt> meh, I ordered some "conical engraving bits for aluminium" because I couldn't find any 3mm chamfer mill
[20:55:25] <MattyMatt> 50, 60 and 90 deg, all for 10gbp, so I'll get some woodwork out of them
[21:01:40] <andypugh> Is 10pm too late to mill a keyway slot?
[21:02:07] <kanzure> it's never too late
[21:09:14] <skunkworks_> Guest203: how is it going?
[21:09:39] <Al_Smt> dgarr, I get an error when using http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/tooledit file
[21:10:30] <Al_Smt> Error in startup script: couldn't load file "/usr/tcl/emc.so": /usr/tcl/emc.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[21:10:31] <Al_Smt> while executing
[21:21:32] <Al_Smt> bbl
[21:44:52] <andypugh> Slot milled. The ballnut is now on the screw, it fits this time :-)
[21:46:15] <andypugh> And the bearing seat is possibly the best turned finish I have ever seen, certainly the best I have ever produced. 400m/min and CBN tooling is definitely the way to go.
[22:01:32] <dgarr> Al_Smt: fixed a problem with environemenal var for EMC2_HOME, try again
[23:15:27] <MattyMatt> "try to make holders for cuting elemnet. Only if script detect outlines of element and only on outlines."
[23:16:12] <cradek> what
[23:16:40] <MattyMatt> I think "cuting elemnet " is tool, but I can't figure out what holders are :)
[23:18:31] <Guest203> skunkworks: got it working in the office now to get it working on the lathe, thanks for asking
[23:18:57] <MattyMatt> the tooltip for the size is "with tool compensation if +tc and if size is biger then tool size it will generate drill to make weaker holder."
[23:19:29] <telmnstr> okay my lead screws came in
[23:19:32] <telmnstr> they got slightly bent
[23:19:40] <telmnstr> should I gripe or is it an easy fix?
[23:19:51] <telmnstr> if I were to roll them across a flat surface they wouldn't roll
[23:20:46] <MattyMatt> I would gripe
[23:21:31] <telmnstr> they taped the lead screws to wood
[23:21:34] <telmnstr> but the wood was broken
[23:21:37] <telmnstr> some thin scrap
[23:22:13] <MattyMatt> get fresh. let the suppliers sue the shippers
[23:22:54] <MattyMatt> there's no point buying bent leadscrews. you can make bent ones yourself :)
[23:22:57] <telmnstr> the shippers will tell them to get bent
[23:26:15] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[23:26:45] <MattyMatt> it's 3 times as much trade for the shippers this way. they do it deliberately
[23:26:54] <MattyMatt> "ooh, this looks breakable"
[23:27:28] <MattyMatt> Photographs - Do Not Bend - "Oh yes they do"
[23:28:22] <telmnstr> I just checked, I paid $90 total shipped
[23:28:31] <telmnstr> for a 60" and a 40" or something
[23:28:35] <telmnstr> plus two nuts
[23:28:50] <telmnstr> Not horrible
[23:28:54] <MattyMatt> all acme?
[23:28:57] <telmnstr> yup
[23:29:02] <telmnstr> they suck?
[23:29:22] <telmnstr> Its my first CNC setup, so I presume it will just be used to build the 2nd
[23:29:23] <MattyMatt> not compared to my M8
[23:29:44] <telmnstr> got two thompson slides for Y axis, and two generic things for X
[23:29:53] <telmnstr> 60" x 36" x something
[23:30:07] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[23:30:07] <MattyMatt> acme has served the industry well for 100+ years, but ballscrews are better now
[23:30:20] <telmnstr> interesting
[23:30:27] <telmnstr> yea ballscrews are beautiful
[23:30:35] <telmnstr> but they are quite a bit more expensive, no?
[23:30:42] <telmnstr> this company supposedley did something to them
[23:30:45] <telmnstr> to make them better
[23:30:47] <MattyMatt> 2-3x the cost of acme
[23:30:50] <telmnstr> (the acme things)
[23:30:59] <telmnstr> some company all over feebay
[23:32:41] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:32:49] <MattyMatt> ah if it's a big firm, just send them back
[23:33:38] <MattyMatt> keeping them straight through all the grinding ops, is the whole art of making them
[23:34:47] <MattyMatt> you could make your own on any lathe apart from that
[23:35:12] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt would try anyway
[23:37:00] <MattyMatt> I'm looking for somewhere local that sells acme by the yard
[23:37:54] <Valen> you can get them off ebay pretty cheap
[23:37:59] <Valen> ballscrews that is
[23:38:31] <MattyMatt> I got one, but that was lucky
[23:39:00] <Valen> check http://myworld.ebay.com.au/linearmotionbearings2008/ this guy out
[23:39:11] <Valen> we have baught from him a few times and it was all good
[23:39:28] <Valen> get him to machine the ends of the screws though, they are stupid hard lol
[23:40:33] <MattyMatt> not very local for me
[23:43:18] <Valen> thats why they invented post
[23:43:20] <Valen> ;-P
[23:47:06] <MattyMatt> and postal workers :)
[23:51:06] <MattyMatt> I like the look of their water cooled spindles
[23:53:21] <Guest203> I have a USB chip I use to move and edit Gcode, like to move to office to edit Gcode, how do you get EMC to see the USB chip to open file that are in the chip?
[23:54:01] <MattyMatt> just plug it in
[23:54:24] <MattyMatt> don't ever forget to unmount before removing from a linux box :p
[23:55:14] <MattyMatt> mine is now dead to this computer, even after I reformatted it on another machine
[23:55:48] <Guest203> you have to mount and unmount it each time you take it in and out?
[23:56:05] <Guest203> I can get linux to see it NP
[23:56:39] <Guest203> the problem is in EMC, I use open file and it will not see the USB
[23:56:44] <MattyMatt> it will auto mount, but not dismount cleanly (unless you set the sync option when you mount it)
[23:57:01] <MattyMatt> ah copy the file to the desktop then :)
[23:58:22] <Guest203> I have plug it in and used it to copy and move files
[23:58:31] <Guest203> I did not do any unmount
[23:58:36] <Guest203> just unpluged it