#emc | Logs for 2010-05-11

[00:48:01] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[01:03:17] <jimbo> Would you not treat the control of a VFD for the spindle the same as an axis? Do you create this as an axis?
[01:08:59] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:19:56] <Valen> jimbo spindle is treated differently
[02:23:45] <spasticteapot> Can anyone here identify a good Linux CAD program?
[02:39:27] <L84Supper> heeksCAD
[02:40:01] <L84Supper> QCAD
[02:40:14] <jimbo> I have looked at the wiki but the information is for m5i20 not hot_mot2. I want to start out with spindle speed control and then work up to closed loop control.
[02:47:52] <atmega> good is relative
[03:07:21] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[03:07:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: WB
[03:13:11] <Azurra> hello, i`m developing a delta robot (three arms parallel robot) and i found in emc the solution to control the mechanism. can someone help me to introduce how to setup the kinematics of that robot in emc and the other things that i need to know? or better, the steps that i need to study/know to implement that? thank-you.
[04:42:15] <jimbo> Night all. I will play with this tomorrow......
[09:37:55] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:41:02] <piasdom> is it possible to install Qcad or heeksCad with apt-get or synaptic?
[09:41:27] <celeron55> qcad is available in most distributions i think
[09:43:16] <piasdom> i sk because i never complied anything in linux
[09:43:37] <celeron55> there are packages available for heekscad, too http://yamato.hyte.de/packages/heeks/
[09:43:42] <celeron55> but they're a bit old maybe
[09:45:29] <piasdom> i tried to run qcad in a terminal and it showed me how to use apt-get
[09:45:45] <piasdom> celeron55; Thanks
[09:47:28] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:08:26] <piasdom> ok, one more-what that program/script that converts a dxf to gcode ?
[10:09:03] <celeron55> you can do that in various ways with heekscad+heekscnc
[10:12:14] <piasdom> cool
[10:12:24] <piasdom> now i need to get heek :)
[10:14:24] <celeron55> there are smaller scripts also for some g-code generation
[10:14:45] <celeron55> there's a list of them in the wiki i think
[10:15:09] <celeron55> here's something http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[10:18:15] <MattyMatt> getting your DXF to STL is the only tricky bit in blender
[10:18:50] <MattyMatt> actually heeks still has issues with STL, so maybe that's not the perfect intermediate form
[10:21:17] <MattyMatt> this mGcodeGenerator.py does quite a lot. I'm just picking out exactly what it does now :) It isn't clear from the GUI at all
[10:22:21] <celeron55> somebody should make a tutorial on how to use blender for CAM
[10:22:57] <MattyMatt> it's highly dependent on what the script does for you, so the docs for this script will be that tute
[10:24:48] <MattyMatt> If I wrote up what I'd done already, it would be more like a blog than a permanent wiki entry
[10:25:38] <MattyMatt> a week ago it would say "Don't use 2.4x, use 2.5" this week it's the opposite
[10:26:21] <celeron55> well, just be sure to write it some day
[10:26:49] <MattyMatt> could be today :)
[10:27:40] <MattyMatt> I spent most of yesterday retabbing by hand in blender's internal editor :p
[10:27:52] <MattyMatt> python does have it's annoyances
[10:27:58] <celeron55> I'd like to try blender some day but I think it's too complicated without a strictly aimed tutorial
[10:28:34] <MattyMatt> ah yeah, a general "drawing stuff square" tute would be handy
[10:28:52] <celeron55> in addition, yes
[10:29:09] <celeron55> "blender for cnc guys"
[10:35:02] <MattyMatt> I could do a page now, explaining my rationale for representing toolpaths as bezier curves
[10:36:18] <MattyMatt> that would only make sense to a blender expert, but it would be a hub to link to the individual functions
[10:38:00] <MattyMatt> anyway. daylight. mill now. worry about code & docs later
[11:26:52] <Spida> what kind of milling precision is achievable for a DIY desktop mill with 30*60*15cm working-area?
[11:27:18] <JT-Dev> depends on the design of the machine
[11:28:10] <Spida> of course. but what is possible for a reasonable price?
[11:28:26] <JT-Dev> is that a trick question?
[11:28:43] <Spida> no
[11:28:55] <Spida> I just want to know what I can expect
[11:29:03] <mozmck> MattyMatt, celeron55: here's a blender tutorial I found for solid modeling that looks pretty good: http://www.rab3d.com/tutorial.html
[11:29:05] <herron> Spida I made mine from scrap and second hand and some new and make clock parts
[11:29:36] <herron> Spida, depends on your skills and what you use to start from
[11:29:37] <Spida> I have just about no experience in machines (I come frome the software-side and do a bit of eletronics)
[11:30:31] <Spida> I am willing to learn, but I want to know what is possible before I invest time/money...
[11:31:01] <herron> anything is possible see the examples on the linuxcnc wiki
[11:31:10] <JT-Dev> Spida: anything is possible given enough time and money ... the more precise the more time and money needed
[11:31:33] <JT-Dev> what do you think you want to build?
[11:31:47] <herron> what do you want to make
[11:31:58] <Spida> 3axis mill
[11:32:26] <JT-Dev> I built a plasma cutter from scratch but did enough research before starting to make sure I got what I expected
[11:32:26] <Spida> some milling in plastics and gfk, probably aluminium
[11:33:27] <JT-Dev> do you have a manual mill now to make the parts for the cnc mill?
[11:37:17] <herron> or retrofit a second hand mill
[11:39:09] <JT-Dev> Spida: you looking at table top size?
[11:39:27] <Spida> I have access to a manual mill, yes.
[11:39:44] <Spida> and I am looking for something tabletop-sized
[11:40:21] <JT-Dev> one option is to use linear rails and bearings for the ways
[11:40:28] <Spida> I am living in a flat with no garage/cellar to speak of, so I will have to use it in my kitchen :-/
[11:41:11] <Spida> so I will probably have to build a case around it to keep dust and sound contained...
[11:41:44] <JT-Dev> sounds like the size that schools use to teach cnc with
[11:41:55] <JT-Dev> sometimes they are sold on ebay
[11:43:30] <Spida> I am working at university on a http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/CircuitboardPlotters/s62.htm
[11:44:11] <Spida> but that on is much precision but not that sturdy... I would try milling metals with it
[11:44:17] <JT-Dev> for any precision at all you need ball screws for all axis
[11:44:45] <Spida> yes, I am aware of that.
[11:45:30] <Spida> I have seen constructions with two nuts on a screw to remove backlash... do I need anything like that with ballscrews, too?
[11:45:40] <JT-Dev> a design like that could be built with linear rails and bearings
[11:46:45] <JT-Dev> many ballscrew applications do the same... my Hardinge lathe has two ball nuts per screw
[11:47:14] <JT-Dev> that way you can use regular ball nuts and set the preload to reduce backlash
[11:50:45] <JT-Dev> http://www.andyshelley.co.uk/axisfarris/index.php
[12:16:06] <elmo40> that rocks!
[12:16:29] <elmo40> JT-Dev: have you seen my tiny lathe that was donated to me? :)
[12:17:04] <elmo40> 1945'ish Sears 109.0703 http://bayimg.com/BAMdGAaCI
[12:17:31] <elmo40> don't know if it is worth making it EMC powered, but it would be great practice
[12:21:43] <MattyMatt> mozmck, I've seen that one. it's all about rendering shiny bearings
[12:24:13] <JT-Dev> elmo40: screen locked up had to boot
[12:24:17] <elmo40> how do you get both motors to be in sync? looks like a stepper, wouldn't it be possible to miss? http://www.rab3d.com/engineering/cnc/cnc_engraver2.jpg
[12:24:21] <JT-Dev> no I didn't see your lathe
[12:24:30] <elmo40> 1945'ish Sears 109.0703 http://bayimg.com/BAMdGAaCI
[12:24:39] <elmo40> it is cute. not much too it
[12:24:48] <elmo40> but I have both a 3 and 4-jaw chuck for it :)
[12:25:01] <MattyMatt> it'll be cute with a cleanup and fresh paint
[12:25:19] <MattyMatt> get the straw dust out the leadscrew :)
[12:25:25] <elmo40> almost torn apart. a few stubborn rivets and screws
[12:26:17] <elmo40> will get it sand blasted then painted greyish in colour. aviation enamel
[12:26:25] <JT-Dev> wow that is an oldie but goodie
[12:26:48] <elmo40> ya, google 109.0703 I believe it is '45 or so
[12:26:56] <elmo40> http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page4.html
[12:27:04] <elmo40> search for 0703.
[12:27:40] <MattyMatt> it's stylish. very deco
[12:28:04] <MattyMatt> high polish alu would look cool
[12:28:09] <elmo40> it is capable of threading!
[12:28:21] <elmo40> MattyMatt: Aluminum paint?
[12:28:29] <elmo40> I think light grey works
[12:28:47] <elmo40> the blue is original, though...
[12:29:26] <MattyMatt> anodising would be neat, if you know somewhere local
[12:29:33] <JT-Dev> elmo40: are you going to cnc it?
[12:30:02] <elmo40> as an experiment.
[12:30:08] <elmo40> will try not to drill too many holes in it.
[12:30:17] <elmo40> but it has already been mucked with.
[12:30:38] <elmo40> MattyMatt: it isn't cast Alu, I don't think.
[12:31:06] <elmo40> someone even makes a manual for it http://www.homeshopsupply.com/manuals.html
[12:32:11] <MattyMatt> but metallic blue finish always means diecast alu :)
[12:32:35] <MattyMatt> it's The Law!
[12:33:09] <MattyMatt> hammered finish, crackle blue paint specifically
[12:33:48] <elmo40> ya, the crackle paint.
[12:33:58] <elmo40> or 'crackle' grey!
[12:34:18] <elmo40> I have an old compressor that is that grey crackle
[12:36:00] <MattyMatt> candy pearl. basecoat of mica then coloured laquer
[12:36:49] <MattyMatt> yellow, with red handles. disneylathe
[12:37:52] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt puts on a black roll neck jumper and buys a mac
[12:39:42] <Spida> what is the difference between steppers and servos (on the effect side, I think I know the technical difference on their inside)?
[12:40:05] <Spida> meaning: what do I gain from choosing one over the other?
[12:40:08] <MattyMatt> steppers good a low speed. servos good at high speed
[12:41:12] <Spida> and for precision?
[12:41:15] <Spida> price?
[12:41:19] <Spida> building-size?
[12:41:36] <MattyMatt> steppers usually win in all those factors
[12:42:05] <MattyMatt> servos on the axes are for when you want to spend money on speed
[12:43:15] <Spida> no. speed doesn't satisfy my price/weigth/size/sound limits...
[12:43:19] <Spida> (I guess)
[12:43:48] <MattyMatt> servos are less noise for the same motion
[12:44:04] <herron> steppers can lose steps
[12:44:22] <herron> and you wont know how many
[12:44:53] <MattyMatt> you can put encoders on, as part of an upgrade path to servos
[12:45:09] <herron> go straight to servo
[12:45:12] <MattyMatt> but that's half the expense of servos afaics, the encoders
[12:45:13] <Spida> herron: losing steps isn't so bad I guess (except if you have no other way of kowning your position than countign steps from the limit-switches)
[12:45:42] <MattyMatt> you can hear it usually if you lose steps
[12:46:42] <MattyMatt> but yeah, you have to worry about it so you keep your speeds below optimal
[12:47:25] <Spida> I guess spindle-power/cooling/precision will bite me before I can worry about speed...
[12:49:02] <JT-Dev> Spida: if you stall a stepper it usually just quits... when you loose steps your timing is not configured correctly for your driver
[12:49:26] <MattyMatt> http://www.atsite.co.uk/p-6828-draper-140w-230v-multi-tool-kit-with-flexible-drive-shaft-with-carrying-case.aspx
[12:49:28] <JT-Dev> properly set up and used a stepper system is fine
[12:49:54] <MattyMatt> for a cheapo spindle. this hasn't failed me yet
[12:50:39] <MattyMatt> well, I had to fix a dry joint inside it :)
[12:50:49] <MattyMatt> but...otherwise
[12:50:51] <JT-Dev> MattyMatt: do you use the flex part or just the dremel tool
[12:51:04] <MattyMatt> I didn't get the flex shaft with mine
[12:51:39] <MattyMatt> it's 5gbp cheaper without it, but I don't see that offer online anywhere
[12:52:53] <JT-Dev> hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go
[12:52:58] <Dave911> OT... but does anyone know why an AB series 9 CNC would go to an all amber screen? I was going to replace this unit with EMC2 and it appears that the unit is dying before the scheduled swap out! :-O
[12:53:30] <MattyMatt> brightness turned up all the way?
[12:54:02] <Dave911> Good idea .... I'll check that later today ....when I get back there
[12:55:49] <Dave911> I was looking at the machine yesterday planning for the swap out, we moved a bunch of cables around, later after we left they tried to start it up and it would not start - on limit - so we might have found a broken wire... the tech monkeyed with it and now all they get is an amber screen! 2 1/2 hours away .. :-(
[12:55:51] <MattyMatt> hiding brightness controls in the bezel was a popular 80s trick :)
[12:56:25] <Dave911> That would be really nice if you were right about that! :-)
[12:56:57] <Dave911> I wasn't going to swap out that unit for another month!
[13:03:44] <MattyMatt> wow, I'm recommending Draper tools again. they've either turned the corner, or they got lucky with this particular imported tat
[13:05:16] <MattyMatt> I'm still sore about the side cutters they sold me, and I still haven't binned
[13:06:22] <MattyMatt> you kinda get the knack of making the jaws meet, with enough practise
[13:08:25] <skunkworks_> my best pair of side cutters that I use are from a import set I got from my grandfather when I was 12
[13:08:54] <MattyMatt> it's mostly luck with cheap tools I find
[13:09:09] <MattyMatt> expensive brands are consistent
[13:09:14] <skunkworks_> yes
[13:09:45] <SWPadnos> Lindstrom
[13:09:51] <skunkworks_> I lose them every once in a while - but they seem to show back up ;)
[13:11:25] <elmo40> my tools also have legs... rather annoying
[13:14:19] <MattyMatt> I need a proper cabinet with lots of drawers. I put my micrometer and caliper on the same tray then lost the tray
[13:14:36] <MattyMatt> organised chaos
[13:16:51] <MattyMatt> elmo40 I noticed your lathe stand doesn't have drawers to keep the spare chucks safely
[13:17:28] <MattyMatt> I'd consider that a priority :)
[13:18:31] <MattyMatt> along with the "smart chuck key clip" which won't let the spindle start unless the chuck key is safely in its rack
[13:19:40] <MattyMatt> that'd probably save my life a few times while I'm learning :)
[13:20:02] <JT-Work> you would only do it once then you would remember
[13:20:28] <MattyMatt> depends which part of my skull it penetrates
[13:20:49] <MattyMatt> if it hit the memory area, then I'd be in trouble
[13:21:27] <JT-Work> I taught my partner how to run a lathe... I made him memorize two rules
[13:21:47] <JT-Work> rule #1 never leave the chuck key in not even for a moment
[13:22:00] <JT-Work> rule #2 always follow rule #1
[13:23:02] <MattyMatt> with the smart clip, it would know when you'd tried so it could make you watch a 5 minute information film
[13:23:31] <JT-Work> old manual lathe not to smart
[13:23:35] <MattyMatt> called "This Is What Happens"
[13:27:18] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt has urge to make that film in blender
[13:28:50] <elmo40> then get on it!
[13:29:04] <elmo40> put plenty of blood gushing all over the place
[13:29:24] <MattyMatt> ah the spirit is willing. but not now John, I've gotta get on with this
[13:29:56] <MattyMatt> black blood of course. Safety information films have to be in B/W
[13:31:50] <MattyMatt> dammit :) but I can't start until I've got a model of a lathe & a workman, so that sets a start date
[13:32:47] <MattyMatt> and a worklady. for the scene about long hair
[13:32:49] <elmo40> need a gantt chart to keep you on track.
[13:33:02] <elmo40> or a silly hippie :/
[13:33:48] <MattyMatt> nope I can do high heels, jewellery and loose dresses all in the same lesson, with a lady
[13:34:13] <elmo40> or a hippie
[13:34:15] <elmo40> :P
[13:34:40] <elmo40> don't forget the headphones playing Greatful Dead...
[13:34:53] <MattyMatt> they didn't have hippies in the golden age of public information
[13:37:05] <MattyMatt> "Flashing Steel - 100 things you shouldn't put in a lathe #37 - puppies"
[13:37:30] <elmo40> puppies? :/
[13:38:31] <MattyMatt> if you watched the first #36 already, you're clearly a gorehound :)
[13:39:11] <MattyMatt> once you've used up the women and the children, you're scraping a bit
[13:40:05] <MattyMatt> #10, your tenth and last finger
[13:43:49] <MattyMatt> I tried Gantt chart, but for one person it doesn't tell you anything you don't know
[13:44:31] <MattyMatt> you're still stuck with "I can't do this because I haven't got that"
[13:45:17] <MattyMatt> for a team it's be much more useful, so everyone can see what everyone else is stuck on
[13:48:44] <elmo40> or isn't doing quickly enough ;)
[13:48:45] <JT-Work> MattyMatt: don't forget about the loose shirttail for your vid
[13:49:01] <JT-Work> * JT-Work delivers a machine to the customer
[13:49:33] <JT-Work> and gloves
[13:50:46] <elmo40> gloves and drillpress... I see it all the time!
[13:50:53] <MattyMatt> I'll even do drooling on the electrics if it gets a laugh
[13:51:01] <tlab_> tlab_ is now known as tlab
[13:52:17] <elmo40> lol
[13:52:20] <elmo40> there, now make it
[13:52:21] <elmo40> :P
[13:53:09] <MattyMatt> one day. finding the right music would be a job
[14:27:27] <elmo40> is it too early for Beer?
[14:27:59] <gweepprefect> as they say, it's 5:00 somewhere.
[14:32:36] <elmo40> good point :)
[14:32:40] <elmo40> beer time it is.
[14:33:12] <elmo40> and left over pizza reheated in the toaster oven :P
[14:35:03] <MattyMatt> emc2 doesn't take cm does it? only mm?
[14:36:30] <elmo40> I thought G21 is in cm
[14:36:43] <MattyMatt> because this script, by a polish guy who's probably metric, uses cm and doesn't seem to scale
[14:36:58] <elmo40> hrmm.
[14:37:11] <MattyMatt> I use mm in my gcode
[14:37:16] <elmo40> I have been brought up in a mixed environment. Canada :P
[14:37:20] <elmo40> we have both, and use both.
[14:37:43] <MattyMatt> Axis is in mm, I thought
[14:37:44] <elmo40> we build houses, machining in Imperial but drive, weigh food buy beer in metric
[14:38:00] <elmo40> you can G20 it to imperial
[14:38:06] <MattyMatt> same here except for the beer
[14:38:23] <MattyMatt> that's still in 20floz pints
[14:39:31] <elmo40> lol
[14:39:34] <elmo40> silly
[14:39:59] <MattyMatt> try and mess with a pint :)
[14:40:05] <MattyMatt> political suicide
[14:40:14] <elmo40> 500ml
[14:40:23] <elmo40> I believe...
[14:40:27] <elmo40> or 510
[14:40:31] <elmo40> something like that
[14:40:51] <elmo40> oh wow, not even!
[14:40:56] <elmo40> 473mL
[14:41:08] <elmo40> pint it less then half a litre
[14:41:14] <MattyMatt> a British pint is more
[14:41:16] <elmo40> crazy americans...
[14:41:24] <elmo40> yes, 568mL
[14:41:35] <MattyMatt> 20floz. 473 sounds like 16 floz
[14:41:35] <elmo40> but americans skimper on everything
[14:42:34] <MattyMatt> 16 floz makes sense, but I think the british wanted bigger beers than the french
[14:44:21] <MattyMatt> anyway, if you try and sell half litres here be sure to serve it in a soft plastic glass
[14:44:41] <elmo40> what about the failed plastic beer bottle?
[14:44:43] <elmo40> I want that back
[14:44:46] <elmo40> it was good
[14:45:27] <MattyMatt> 3L ones? :)
[14:45:52] <MattyMatt> all the supermarket beer is mL, but that doesn't count
[14:46:20] <MattyMatt> hat's just beer, but a pint is a pint
[14:46:28] <elmo40> meh
[14:46:40] <elmo40> just give me a glass of beer, at a fair prie
[14:46:43] <elmo40> *price
[14:48:06] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt reads the manual for definitive cm/mm controversy
[15:00:03] <MattyMatt> emc2 manual says mm
[15:00:25] <elmo40> silly metric...
[15:00:40] <MattyMatt> and I can't be sure I didn't put in a x10 fudge factor while config
[15:01:58] <MattyMatt> aha a silly metric person
[15:02:21] <frallzor> metric isnt silly =(
[15:02:28] <frallzor> imperial is! =(
[15:02:55] <MattyMatt> frallzor, is emc2 M21 mode mm or cm?
[15:03:21] <MattyMatt> the manual says mm, but this script says cm
[15:03:32] <frallzor> should be mm
[15:03:42] <frallzor> cm seems stupid =)
[15:04:12] <MattyMatt> have you tried it? actually it's hard to tell if you calibrate it how I did
[15:04:13] <frallzor> maybe ok if you are milling a bulkhead for a destroyer :P
[15:04:51] <MattyMatt> I give mine mm, it mills mm, but it might be moving 10x slower than it thinks it is
[15:05:01] <frallzor> odd
[15:05:14] <elmo40> imerial is just like metric, when you talk decimal places...
[15:05:37] <MattyMatt> yeah, in thous it's all decimal
[15:05:38] <elmo40> I measure in 0.015" not 1/64" :P
[15:06:31] <MattyMatt> my grandads gauge had 1/256" to thousanths table on it
[15:07:44] <elmo40> silly fractions
[15:07:52] <MattyMatt> imperial is better in the real world. base 12 ftw
[15:08:28] <MattyMatt> money was better that way
[15:09:46] <MattyMatt> I wish it had lasted long enough to make it into Visicalc :)
[15:11:17] <MattyMatt> anyway, manual say mm, mm is what it shall get
[15:17:13] <Azurra> hello, i`m developing a delta robot (three arms parallel robot) and i found in emc the solution to control the mechanism. can someone help me to introduce how to setup the kinematics of that robot in emc and the other things that i need to know? or better, the steps that i need to study/know to implement that? thank-you.
[15:21:10] <frallzor> pics of the build? =)
[15:45:02] <elmo40> anyone in the UK? http://qurl.org/Sz0
[15:50:14] <elmo40> damn. good price here! http://qurl.org/Tz0
[16:48:19] <r0b0> hi all, i have a few newbie questions about stepconf. i just got my limit switches set up and when i try running samples from emc2 i get limmit errors and/or joint N errors. also it seems i may have my orientation wrong. if I home and jog - the cnc router moves away from the home/limit while emc2 shows the pointer going opposite way from the drawing. when i jog + it moves towards home/limit. is this a function of the table diminsions or is this from LATC
[16:49:28] <andypugh> You can switch the directions by altering the sign of the SCALE values in the ini file
[16:49:32] <SWPadnos> you can reverse the physical motor movement by setting (or unsetting) the "invert" checkbox for the DIR output for that motor
[16:49:36] <r0b0> this is a 2'x3' 8020 kit with gecko 540
[16:49:56] <SWPadnos> you might want to try the G540 stepconf file as a starting point
[16:50:09] <Jymmm> checkbox?
[16:50:16] <SWPadnos> stepconf
[16:50:18] <Jymmm> no negating?
[16:50:20] <andypugh> In stepconf
[16:50:46] <SWPadnos> you don't need to negate the scale, but that will work too
[16:50:53] <andypugh> If the motor is runnning the wrong way, then inverting direction in stepconf is the easy way.
[16:50:55] <r0b0> thanks for clarification
[16:51:02] <r0b0> yeah i think i was changing too much at once
[16:51:29] <r0b0> offhand, what does the LATCH same/opposite actually do?
[16:51:39] <SWPadnos> ?
[16:51:41] <SWPadnos> where
[16:51:51] <andypugh> Negating the scale is more for servo systems, but I think it might also be useful in reversed-geometry machines too? I get a bit confused as you can switch the direction in at least 3 places..
[16:51:53] <r0b0> in stepconf on each axis, very bottom
[16:52:11] <SWPadnos> huh. no idea
[16:52:44] <SWPadnos> try this for starters: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/G540.stepconf
[16:52:52] <r0b0> thank you again
[16:53:12] <SWPadnos> just copy it to your ~/emc2 directory, and open it with stepconf
[16:53:13] <andypugh> Probably best to read the homing docs, that controls whether the machine hits the limit, stops, then drives off slowly, or hits the limit, stops, drives off fast, and then back on slowly.
[16:53:15] <Jymmm> imho... I think it be far better to have a self-documented .ini file for people to work from (much like apache.conf) than a point-n-click. It allows people to learn innards far better
[16:53:15] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:53:27] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, we have both :)
[16:53:44] <r0b0> i KNOW apache..
[16:53:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No, I men a VERY WELL self-documented ini
[16:53:54] <Jymmm> mean
[16:53:56] <andypugh> r0b0: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_homing.html
[16:53:58] <SWPadnos> though our ini isn't as documented as it could be (it doesn't list all the possible options)
[16:54:23] <SWPadnos> ah, now I know what latch same/opposite does, and it's not important if you don't have home switches
[16:55:58] <r0b0> my limit switches are my homes
[16:56:17] <SWPadnos> ok, in that case read the homing section :)
[16:56:29] <r0b0> perfefct, thank you all.
[16:56:42] <SWPadnos> sure. good luck
[17:08:26] <r0b0> interesting, the html docs are entirely different (while both useful) than the pdfs. i wish i looked there first!
[17:10:32] <SWPadnos> make sure you're looking at the right HTML docs
[17:10:48] <SWPadnos> the PDF files on your system are for the version you have installed
[17:10:56] <SWPadnos> the HTML docs may be for a different version
[17:11:49] <r0b0> sorry, i initially went to docs and went for the pdfs and wiki first - assuming the html topics were the same as pdfs...
[17:12:27] <r0b0> it clearly says "All documentation in HTML", which i ignored as well
[18:01:55] <sealive> hi offtoppic Gator is this the 6x4 from JohnDeer in the USA what is this callt in the states
[18:02:20] <SWPadnos> they're called "gators" here too
[18:04:20] <sealive> thanks
[18:04:40] <sealive> the over head name is amphicar or
[19:09:04] <alex_joni> http://www.andyshelley.co.uk/axisfarris/index.php
[19:11:31] <micges> cool
[19:13:10] <frallzor> spyrograph gone cnc :P
[19:55:33] <Dallur> Anyone here have some experience routing plywood and willing to answer a question of two from someone not used to routing wood?
[19:56:00] <micges> Dallur: ask
[19:57:32] <Dallur> I need to route some plywood, it's all melamine laminated hard wood, 3-12mm
[19:58:03] <Dallur> from what I read the best teeth for this are spiral compression (good edge on top and bottom)
[19:58:34] <Dallur> what I'm wondering about is if they are really worth the $130 pricetag and how long one can expect them to last
[19:59:06] <micges> quite expensive
[19:59:26] <micges> here we have abot 30$ each
[19:59:45] <Dallur> spiral compression teeth ?
[20:00:22] <micges> spiral teeth yes, dont know what compression means
[20:00:55] <Dallur> means that they don't just twist one way, the direction of the twist changes in the middle
[20:01:12] <Dallur> so that on the bottom part the tooth is pressing upwards and on the top part it presses downwards
[20:01:23] <Dallur> so both top and bottom are supposed to not chip
[20:02:00] <micges> hmm, what are you need to route?
[20:02:37] <micges> and how much?
[20:03:08] <Dallur> basically I need to route the interior for my boat
[20:03:47] <Dallur> it's all marine grade plywood
[20:04:14] <Dallur> mostly it's 12/10mm
[20:05:41] <micges> if it's simple glued laminated plywood, you can use simple spiral teeth tool
[20:05:52] <Dallur> won't it chip on the backside ?
[20:06:42] <micges> here after cutting are only dust, no chips
[20:06:43] <Dallur> here is a picture of a compression bit: http://www.vortextool.com/images/products/3500.jpg
[20:07:04] <Dallur> but is the back edge of the ply not rough ?
[20:07:27] <micges> but better wait for someone knows better
[20:07:52] <bill2or3> Can I run Axis on a non-rtl machine, just as a gcode viewer, without doing a full emc2 install/setup?
[20:08:12] <Dallur> micges: I'm just doublechecking, the ply cost me 10.000 euros so ... don't want to make a mistake :P
[20:08:24] <cradek> you don't need rtai or a special realtime kernel. just build emc2 in simulator mode.
[20:08:33] <frallzor> or just run the live-cd =)
[20:08:53] <micges> Dallur: omg, so you'd better ask someone who done more in wood that me
[20:09:20] <bill2or3> simulator mode sounds good.
[20:09:34] <frallzor> whatcha doing in wood Dallur?
[20:09:44] <Dallur> frallzor: interor for my boat
[20:09:45] <bill2or3> I made a RepStrap printer, & haven't found a comparable gcode viewer for it.
[20:10:00] <frallzor> I see, in plywood?
[20:10:04] <Dallur> floors are the worst, it's teak plywood
[20:10:15] <frallzor> veneered plywood?
[20:10:21] <Dallur> yes
[20:10:33] <mozmck_work> Dallur: I use a simple spiral in hardwood for building banjo parts, and there can be a little fuzz on the back side but not much.
[20:11:09] <Dallur> mozmck_work: just a few strokes of sandpaper and it's gone or will it still be visible ?
[20:11:10] <frallzor> Ive used simple spiral tools too that are made for wood
[20:11:14] <frallzor> same for me
[20:11:34] <mozmck_work> For this I bought spiral router bits and had problems with accuracy, so I got endmills and they work considerably better and are much cheaper.
[20:11:36] <frallzor> sometimes some fuzz you remove with one or two strokes with the paper
[20:12:18] <Dallur> ok, if it's not more than a little fuzz I'll probably try regular spiral
[20:12:29] <mozmck_work> When the bit starts to get dull the fuzz is more, but even then it's not bad.
[20:12:48] <Dallur> but you guys would recommend spiral rather than straight for cut quality ?
[20:13:04] <mozmck_work> I would try it on some small, less important pieces first.
[20:13:23] <frallzor> the ones I've ordered thats especially for wood are spirals, so there must be some ups with them?
[20:13:25] <Dallur> I have a couple of parts which won't be visible, I can probably start with them
[20:13:45] <mozmck_work> Generally the spirals are supposed to give a better finish
[20:14:21] <Dallur> thanks, at least now I have some idea of what I'm getting into
[20:14:39] <Dallur> you guys have a rough idea how many meters can be cut before the bit's go dull?
[20:15:12] <falkor> ciao
[20:15:40] <micges> hi
[20:15:49] <falkor> a chi posso chiedere di aiutarmi a capire cos'รจ un componente che ho trovato insieme ad alcuni transistor?
[20:16:40] <micges> this is english channel
[20:18:31] <frallzor> pasta
[20:18:45] <frallzor> my fair share of italian
[20:19:06] <mozmck_work> Dallur: I don't know. I use solid micrograin carbide endmills from MSC Supply and I have cut a lot of endgrain without noticing much dulling yet. All hardwoods like maple and bubinga.
[20:19:54] <Dallur> mozmck_work: so essentially a single bit will probably outlast the project assuming proper care and speeds are used :)
[20:20:42] <cradek> for expensive stuff like this, I bet the tool manufacturer would be happy to talk to you
[20:20:42] <mozmck_work> It could very well!
[20:22:42] <mozmck_work> probably not a bad idea. Onsrud are probably the best quality wood bits.
[20:23:21] <falkor> Hi!
[20:23:36] <Dallur> Yeah, the ones I was considering are Onsrud, not many other manufacturers that seem to make these compression bits for 12mm collets
[20:23:41] <falkor> I've found it on an italian site and so I thinked that it was an italian channel!
[20:24:04] <Dallur> might be worth it to send them an email with the wood spec, see what they say, thanks cradek
[20:28:00] <telmnstr> ooo laser engraving with EMC too?
[20:28:09] <cradek> worst that could happen is nothing - best is they'd send you some samples to try
[20:28:33] <laserGuy> hello guys
[20:29:28] <laserGuy> who is online?
[20:29:44] <laserGuy> it's my first time ;)
[20:29:56] <telmnstr> lots of people in here
[20:30:08] <archivist> some dead like me
[20:30:14] <laserGuy> hehehe
[20:30:18] <laserGuy> i'm from chile
[20:30:27] <laserGuy> we say jajaja
[20:30:30] <laserGuy> and you say lol
[20:31:16] <telmnstr> heh
[20:32:32] <laserGuy> hey, i have a laser question
[20:32:48] <laserGuy> i want to control the laser intensity with the pwm output, but when i change the pwm value, the motion pause a little
[20:33:59] <laserGuy> perhaps I need to set up a velocity mode instead of position mode
[20:36:18] <laserGuy> any ideas?
[20:37:14] <frallzor> what kind of laser ya using?
[20:37:17] <frallzor> just for fun =)
[20:38:04] <laserGuy> laser diode
[20:38:12] <laserGuy> not co2
[20:38:13] <frallzor> where ya got it? ebay?
[20:38:16] <laserGuy> yes
[20:38:19] <laserGuy> chinese people
[20:38:24] <frallzor> link?
[20:38:34] <bill2or3> Mmmlasers
[20:38:44] <telmnstr> I hava 25 watt co2 laser engraver that I'm working on getting running under emc
[20:39:09] <laserGuy> here is the link
[20:39:10] <laserGuy> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-808nm-300mW-Taiwan-Laser-Diode-DIY-Laser-Lab-/260554238595?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caa3e2a83
[20:39:19] <frallzor> how much output would one need for say like 10mm acrylic and such and maybe some 5-6mm wood?
[20:39:26] <laserGuy> you enter "laser diode" in ebay
[20:39:32] <micges> laserGuy: what command you're using to change pwm?
[20:39:47] <laserGuy> "S" command
[20:40:08] <laserGuy> but "S" command have a little delay
[20:40:21] <laserGuy> and the laser motion pause
[20:40:42] <bill2or3> is that really 300mw? they have gotten much cheaper since the last time I looked..
[20:40:59] <telmnstr> Because that wavelength isn't super popular
[20:41:05] <telmnstr> non-visible
[20:41:21] <telmnstr> many of the green dpss systems on there, the power outputs are lies
[20:41:40] <telmnstr> they don't filter the IR so there is lots of leakage of IR light mixed in with the 532nm green
[20:41:52] <laserGuy> it's possible control the laser intensity without these pauses?
[20:43:57] <bill2or3> The non-visible frequency is fine for cutting/marking, right?
[20:44:22] <laserGuy> right
[20:45:32] <telmnstr> yep
[20:45:33] <bill2or3> cheap! is 300mw enough for anything useful?
[20:45:37] <telmnstr> visible is for the disco
[20:45:44] <telmnstr> jesus toast!
[20:45:50] <bill2or3> or is it more like a "marking black plastic" power?
[20:46:15] <laserGuy> suggestions for the "S" command pauses?
[20:47:17] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 has none.
[20:47:18] <frallzor> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-150W-co2-laser-tube-water-cool-/140401079284?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b08e73f4 I want this
[20:47:34] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 is scared of tube lasers.
[20:47:42] <bill2or3> or of destroying one, anyway.
[20:47:48] <laserGuy> come on dead people
[20:48:52] <skunkworks_> are you trying to do - rastering?
[20:49:06] <laserGuy> YES
[20:49:37] <laserGuy> when i raster, the laser pauses every time i change the pwm
[20:49:53] <skunkworks_> I really don't think emc2 is setup to do rastering right out of the box... I know of a few people that have done it. But they used hal streamer or such.
[20:50:12] <skunkworks_> let me see if I can find a link
[20:50:12] <laserGuy> hal streamer?
[20:50:18] <laserGuy> many many thanks
[20:50:43] <frallzor> * frallzor is trying to find the wattage neede for different materials
[20:50:48] <frallzor> *d
[20:53:39] <laserGuy> damn
[20:54:24] <alex_joni> do you want to change laser power or just on/off?
[20:54:31] <laserGuy> change the power
[20:54:32] <alex_joni> if laser power, how many different settings?
[20:54:49] <laserGuy> mmm...not much
[20:54:55] <laserGuy> 4, 8 level of gray
[20:55:07] <alex_joni> because if it's 4 or so, you can use digital outputs
[20:55:15] <alex_joni> M62/63 iirc
[20:55:23] <alex_joni> connect the outputs to some mux'es
[20:55:34] <alex_joni> and the output from the mux to the pwmgen
[20:55:44] <alex_joni> input to muxes would be the different powers
[20:55:46] <laserGuy> i try m62/63, but they have a delay too
[20:56:00] <alex_joni> they don't
[20:56:06] <alex_joni> at least not in 2.3.x +
[20:56:33] <laserGuy> for example, i want gray level = 2 in a pixel and gray level=3 in the next pixel
[20:56:58] <laserGuy> then i move the laser, set intensity =2
[20:57:07] <laserGuy> move the laser again and set intensity=3
[20:57:15] <alex_joni> right
[20:57:18] <laserGuy> and there are pauses between
[20:57:32] <alex_joni> hmm.. then maybe the moves are too short
[20:57:38] <alex_joni> and that's why emc2 slows down
[20:57:56] <alex_joni> in that case my proposed solution won't work
[20:58:08] <laserGuy> perhaps in velocity mode?
[20:58:17] <laserGuy> rastering
[20:58:19] <alex_joni> the only sane solution is this: (I already told this one to someone else, not sure if they ever implemented it)
[20:58:35] <alex_joni> write a new component (which takes a complete line)
[20:58:53] <alex_joni> this component connects to x position (the axis which does the raster)
[20:58:57] <alex_joni> and it has some enable
[20:59:05] <alex_joni> output is pwm value
[20:59:17] <alex_joni> you feed this component with values for the whole line
[20:59:22] <alex_joni> start/stop values, etc
[20:59:29] <alex_joni> then you set enable on, and you start moving
[20:59:46] <laserGuy> you mean hal programming?
[20:59:47] <alex_joni> the component will look at x position, and change pwm setting based on the lookup table
[20:59:54] <alex_joni> yup
[21:00:45] <laserGuy> i can't find anyone with emc2 and laser rastering
[21:00:53] <laserGuy> i think all have the same problem
[21:01:19] <skunkworks_> laserGuy: you need to ask optic
[21:01:37] <laserGuy> is a delay problem... not optic
[21:01:51] <skunkworks_> I cannot find the link but one of the guys in his club has done raster graphics using a utility
[21:01:58] <alex_joni> laserGuy: Optic is a guy in here
[21:02:01] <skunkworks_> no - optic is a user on here. ;)
[21:02:16] <laserGuy> ahhahahaah
[21:02:23] <laserGuy> :p
[21:02:43] <laserGuy> optic, are you there?
[21:02:49] <skunkworks_> it would be in the irc history - but I am not having luck finding it.
[21:03:37] <laserGuy> optic?
[21:03:52] <Optic> hi
[21:03:56] <laserGuy> hii optic!
[21:04:02] <Optic> simmer :)
[21:04:06] <Optic> http://github.com/jedediah/graster
[21:04:08] <Optic> read this
[21:05:44] <laserGuy> the part "hal module for raster mask" ?
[21:06:06] <alex_joni> Optic: cool, that should go on the wiki.linuxcnc.org too
[21:06:43] <Optic> yeah
[21:06:54] <Optic> it's not my code, but you could either ask jed or just copy it :)
[21:07:08] <alex_joni> nah, I meant a link to his code
[21:07:11] <laserGuy> Optic: the link have many code files
[21:07:30] <Optic> correct, our raster solution is nowhere near a turn-key solution
[21:07:57] <Optic> if you don't know about adding hal modules to emc and running ruby scripts, it's not right for you yet
[21:08:12] <laserGuy> i learn fast
[21:08:13] <laserGuy> ;)
[21:08:15] <Optic> I've never used it personally :)
[21:08:18] <Optic> so I can't even help
[21:08:30] <Optic> but feel free to contact jed through github and he can answer your questions
[21:08:33] <Optic> he's a nice guy
[21:08:49] <laserGuy> he uses glasses?
[21:09:25] <Optic> ok I gotta go, i'm late i'm late :)
[21:09:36] <laserGuy> thanks optic
[21:09:46] <laserGuy> i will try with jed
[21:14:35] <andypugh> When was Easter? It was just before Easter that I machined a ballscrew then found I had been sent the wrong ball nut (ie it wouldn't fit, not at all). I just finished machining the replacement ballscrew this evening. I am not impressed with how long that took to sort out.
[21:15:26] <andypugh> On the plus side, the new ballscrew machining went really well, and I ended up with a more satisfactory result.
[21:17:36] <skunkworks> Nice!
[21:17:40] <skunkworks> Nice!
[21:17:45] <skunkworks> heh
[21:17:46] <skunkworks> bbl
[21:19:23] <frallzor> hmmmmm!
[21:20:19] <frallzor> is there nice way to calculate vacuum needed for different size parts and such to be held down?
[21:21:43] <andypugh> Bear in mind that the difference in force between a low-grade vacuum and a really high vacuum is actually tiny.
[21:21:53] <frallzor> really?
[21:21:59] <andypugh> Yeah.
[21:22:37] <frallzor> got my last piece of board on the mill and still thinking about if I should use the method I planned or just mill for vacuum
[21:22:47] <andypugh> A vacuum cleaner probably gets you to 0.5atm. A perfect vacuum would be twice as good.
[21:23:28] <bill2or3> so use two vacuum cleaners, and you're set!
[21:23:58] <andypugh> A low-vacuum might be 0.02 atm, and high vacuum 0.00000001. The latter costs you thousands for 1% more force.
[21:24:29] <frallzor> http://www.polarpumpen.se/?artnr=Vacuumpump2 dont know if you can read the good stuff
[21:24:34] <andypugh> (Sorry, 2%, I changed my mind on the guessed-numbers halway through)
[21:24:35] <frallzor> but would this work ok?
[21:26:19] <laserGuy> who else can help me with rastering in emc?
[21:26:23] <andypugh> The important number is the 1.8cfm. You have to ensure that your vacuum holes don't flow any more than that. You can afford some leakage through unused holes as long as they have orifices that make it not matter too much (but they will suck dust too)
[21:26:50] <frallzor> ill just make a nice raster to seal with some rubber sealings
[21:27:04] <frallzor> so there will be maybe 1 sliiiiight little leak where the ends meet
[21:27:25] <andypugh> You can switch zones in and out with valves too.
[21:27:37] <laserGuy> you raster with a laser?
[21:27:54] <frallzor> i have an idea to just just make the raster of channels, and have maybe 3-4 inputs
[21:28:04] <andypugh> But I think something turbine based would work better than a real "vacuum pump"
[21:28:05] <frallzor> and just use as many as the size demands
[21:28:34] <andypugh> laserGuy: No we were talking about wood.
[21:28:45] <laserGuy> laser on wood?
[21:28:54] <andypugh> I take it your problem is that you don't "get" Optic's link?
[21:29:41] <laserGuy> ;) yes andypugh, i take the suggestion of optic
[21:30:04] <laserGuy> i only want to know if anyone else have experience rastering
[21:30:53] <frallzor> andypugh think a 6mm ballendmill will do good enough channels?
[21:31:02] <frallzor> and use some sealing of 6mm diameter
[21:31:39] <andypugh> frallzor: I guess so, but I am no expert. The only vacuum chucks I have had anything to do with were for holding silicon wafers.
[21:32:05] <andypugh> laserGuy: I haven't, but looking through that code there is:
[21:32:43] <andypugh> .hal files that EMC uses to "connect" functions together and to EMC
[21:33:17] <andypugh> .comp files which are compiled into realtime functions that can be used by hal files.
[21:33:40] <andypugh> Then there are some Ruby scripts, and at that point I get lost.
[21:42:52] <andypugh> Random question: Do the Huron millers move the ram back and forth instead of having a Y axis on the table?
[21:55:30] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[22:11:21] <pfred1> * pfred1 built a motor driver that moves too much!
[23:41:01] <Jymmm> I hear crickets
[23:41:14] <pfred1> its too cold here for crickets
[23:41:27] <Jymmm> I mean IRC Crickets
[23:41:46] <pfred1> I'm pissed off
[23:41:56] <Jymmm> better than pissed on
[23:42:11] <pfred1> I made this beautiful motor driver the best yet and the thing is psychotic
[23:42:19] <pfred1> well I feel pissed on too
[23:42:34] <pfred1> I'm going to have to trash the thing and start all over
[23:43:22] <Jymmm> Or buy something that you know will work
[23:43:23] <pfred1> eventually when I completly dissassemble it maybe I'll know exactly what went wrong with it but by then it won't really matter
[23:44:03] <pfred1> you've never heard of this famous quote of mine i take it? Any asshole can spend money.
[23:44:28] <Jymmm> and any idiot can build a motor driver
[23:44:55] <pfred1> Jymmm most can't even solder two wires together so I doubt that
[23:45:16] <Jymmm> 2, Nah, ANYONE can do that. Even a 3yo
[23:45:54] <pfred1> I'd say less than 1% of people I've met can even come close to that I'd consider competency in soldering ability
[23:46:18] <Jymmm> I never said it was GREAT soldering, just that it can be done.
[23:47:03] <pfred1> I'm not talking about great soldering either I'm just talking acceptable here
[23:47:15] <pfred1> I don't solder great but its acceptable
[23:47:31] <Jymmm> twist two wires together, add flux, solder, and heat.
[23:47:51] <pfred1> yeah its that last part that I think people fail at
[23:48:06] <pfred1> either too little heat for too long or too much
[23:48:23] <Jymmm> but electrically it would work
[23:48:32] <Jymmm> never said for how long =)
[23:48:46] <pfred1> nah too little for too long typically leads to device destruction
[23:50:24] <Jymmm> like I said, I never stated for how long it had to last, just that a 3yo could do it.
[23:50:39] <Jymmm> s/last/be functional/
[23:50:49] <pfred1> I started soldering when I was 7 and I was considered a fairly early starter
[23:51:21] <pfred1> and it still took me a good 7 years to get a bit better at it
[23:51:49] <pfred1> 10 more years before i went pro
[23:51:53] <Jymmm> Heh, try soldering a PL-259 connector =)
[23:52:01] <Jymmm> without fscking it up =)
[23:52:08] <pfred1> I did surface mount when i did it professionally
[23:52:21] <pfred1> which is why I avoud it now
[23:52:25] <pfred1> avoid even
[23:52:45] <pfred1> I got annoyed enough by it then
[23:52:57] <Jymmm> Eh, screw that, lay gobs of solder, then solderwick the excess
[23:53:19] <Jymmm> on those 20 pin per side jobbies
[23:53:49] <pfred1> I had to do SMT transistors
[23:53:57] <Valen> soldermask + frying pan = instant soldering
[23:54:19] <Jymmm> Valen: come up with the soldermask bitch!
[23:54:21] <Jymmm> =)
[23:54:38] <pfred1> Valen I don't think our customers would have appreciated that technique with their boards
[23:54:52] <Jymmm> they aint cheap to have made
[23:55:20] <pfred1> the SMT boards we did had absolutely no mask either they were 100% tinned
[23:55:39] <pfred1> and they weren't cheap boards either
[23:56:15] <pfred1> I honestly don't know what they did but i heard rumors