#emc | Logs for 2010-05-10

[00:00:13] <andypugh> Mine aren't inverting the signal.
[00:00:26] <pfred1> andypugh cool you must wire them differentlythan I do
[00:00:42] <pfred1> andypugh I've done TTL for so long I'm just a current sinker at heart i guess
[00:00:43] <andypugh> Maybe I am wiring them wrong :-)
[00:01:06] <pfred1> this way its nice and square signal strong
[00:01:35] <pfred1> though it is counter intuitive ot how one might think to do it
[00:01:54] <andypugh> I have 5V on one pin of the opto, and the resistor to ground on the other. Signal from where the pin and the resistor meet. That's non-inverting.
[00:01:57] <pfred1> its all negative logic
[00:02:37] <pfred1> yeah you're sourcing not sinking
[00:03:03] <pfred1> electronics just seem to sink a lot better to me
[00:03:28] <pfred1> though with a lot of modern stuff it really doesn't matter
[00:04:09] <andypugh> On the output the whole source-sink thing means nothing, surely?
[00:04:24] <pfred1> mine you can see i have the resistor hot right to the LED then when there is a low it'll make it come on
[00:05:20] <pfred1> so there's my inversion
[00:05:25] <andypugh> I will try rewiring with 100R resistors tomorrow, and if that doesn't work I will get some faster optos.
[00:05:36] <pfred1> 100 R where on the LED side?
[00:06:12] <pfred1> itso n the detector side that optos have troubles
[00:07:12] <pfred1> but you still need to have enough strength to make the LED light
[00:07:43] <pfred1> and 1K is not good but I didn't find any advantages past 330 ohms or 12 ma
[00:08:12] <pfred1> but on the detector side there are advangages to be had by driving it harder
[00:08:34] <pcw_home> 6N137s are pretty cheap for 10 MBist/sec
[00:10:03] <pfred1> like i said I stopped at 220 ohms because i was getting what I wanted there
[00:10:15] <pcw_home> A normal photo transistor type OPTO is pretty much useless fro 20 KHz PWM
[00:12:51] <pcw_home> (dual 6n137s = HCPL2630,2631) are cheap as well for 10 Mbit/sec
[00:15:09] <skunkworks> pcw_home: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/computermesa.JPG
[00:15:12] <andypugh> Aye, I found the 6N127s but they were out of stock
[00:15:18] <skunkworks> got emc to see both cards. :)
[00:17:33] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/mostio.JPG
[00:18:07] <JT-Hardinge> Weee making parts on the Hardine
[00:19:37] <andypugh> pcw_home: Ah, yes. They look much the same as my existing ones, except the graph is in MHz not kHz.
[00:21:49] <pfred1> andypugh what are you using these optos for?
[00:22:15] <andypugh> I am using them for optically isolating
[00:22:25] <pfred1> andypugh isolating what?
[00:22:43] <andypugh> A servo motor controller from other stuff.
[00:22:51] <pfred1> andypugh my motor drivers will never ss anything faster than 25 KHz
[00:23:13] <pfred1> yeah i don't know how fast yo uneed to do that
[00:23:19] <andypugh> Mine are running 15kHz.
[00:23:55] <andypugh> But it is a PWM signal, so you need a lot more frequency response than for step-direction.
[00:24:02] <JT-Hardinge> skunkworks: getting close?
[00:24:56] <pfred1> andypugh do you mean a squared up signal by "frequency response" ?
[00:25:01] <andypugh> skunkworks: What you need is a driver for the LEDs on those 5i20s :-)
[00:26:44] <andypugh> No, I mean a square wave where the duty-cycle varies. The PWM might be at 15kHz, but the "information" in that pulse train has 512x that frequency.
[00:27:26] <pfred1> andypugh then you do need pretty expensive optos i guess
[00:29:18] <andypugh> I might have a 30uS "on" time, but I want to then be able to change that to a 30.1uS on-time. So that means 0.1uS time-accuracy, or 10Mhz.
[00:29:46] <pfred1> best case for what i use is like 3 us
[00:30:28] <andypugh> And as long as it passes the switch-on and switch-off thresholds the actual waveform isn't too important.
[00:30:54] <pfred1> something i have worried about is signal time lag but I figure if its all even then my machine will just be a few us behind reality is all
[00:31:53] <andypugh> I don't even know why I am messing about with these servo motors, resolver interfaces, 3-phase PWM drivers for Hostmot etc. I don't actually have any use for the motors. They were the result of reading eBay while drunk.
[00:32:24] <DaViruz> i've had that problem a few times
[00:33:06] <pfred1> beats watching the tellie I guess
[00:34:42] <pfred1> wow I'm up to 55 views for my one motor driver and EMC2 video I posted!
[00:35:41] <pfred1> * pfred1 is the next Dino Delaurentes over here or sumptin?
[00:40:35] <andypugh> 850 views for my hobbing video.
[00:41:34] <andypugh> Right, work in a few hours, time to bid you goodnight.
[00:55:39] <JT-Hardinge> turns out if you leave a space between the number and the s it tries to add them and gives up
[00:56:07] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:02:27] <JT-Hardinge> funny how sleep is...
[01:03:41] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge http://8tracks.com/robotlove/unzip-strip-touch-finger-mount-fsck-more-yes-unmount-sleep
[01:04:08] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge is it that funny?
[01:06:16] <JT-Hardinge> dunno I don't have any sound on the Hardinge
[01:06:45] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge its mostly just an instrumental but I thought the title said it all really
[01:08:00] <JT-Hardinge> kinda hard to visualize when I'm listening to "One Bourbon One Scotch and One Beer"
[01:08:23] <JT-Hardinge> Stevie Ray you know
[01:08:44] <pfred1> hmm i always thought that was George Throughgood?
[01:10:16] <JT-Hardinge> dang how could I be so off track
[01:10:37] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge wel lI live in Delaware so ...
[01:10:54] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISmgOrhELXs
[01:11:14] <JT-Hardinge> it's good to be running some parts on the Hardinge
[01:11:14] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge I've even heard him play here ;)
[01:11:27] <JT-Hardinge> nice
[01:11:44] <pfred1> at the cork and bottle in Dewey beach
[01:12:20] <JT-Hardinge> I blame it on the drugs
[01:12:49] <JT-Hardinge> Nyquil is really nice when you feel like crap
[01:12:53] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge so did all of these people: http://www.trutv.com/shows/surf_and_rescue/index.html
[01:14:12] <pfred1> our own little Rednecked Riveria
[01:15:20] <JT-Hardinge> wow! a whole little bag of parts from the Hardinge
[01:15:42] <JT-Hardinge> your going to make me watch it aren't you
[01:16:09] <pfred1> oh the dumb cops Dewey beach episode?
[01:16:25] <pfred1> really its not half as engaging when you go there
[01:16:52] <pfred1> though i do wish I'd gone down for when the gang bang bus showed up
[01:17:08] <pfred1> that turned out to sound like it was pretty interesting
[01:17:16] <JT-Hardinge> that would be interesting to watch
[01:17:28] <pfred1> well one cop got kicked off the force as a result
[01:17:48] <pfred1> he apparently did a bit more than just watch ...
[01:18:21] <pfred1> too bad she was only 17 huh?
[01:19:52] <JT-Hardinge> that does lead to problems
[01:20:26] <pfred1> he was probably just summer auxilliary anyways
[01:20:49] <pfred1> out of season I think the place has like 2 cops in season like 2 dozen
[01:22:27] <JT-Hardinge> reminds me of the Greater New Orleans Bridge Police... If you can't get a job as a cop anywhere else you can there
[01:28:02] <JT-Hardinge> dang breaker for the PC tripped
[01:28:28] <JT-Hardinge> must be time to hang up my hat and call it quits for the night
[01:39:59] <tlab> if I wanted a flat piece of metal that is 26.5x16 inches, what would be the most reasonable priced yet sturdy enough to use for mill table?
[01:40:44] <tlab> steel cold or hot rolled? would those have the a good tolerance?
[01:43:24] <pfred1> I hear cold rolled has stresses
[01:43:31] <pfred1> compared to hot rolled
[01:43:39] <tlab> stresses?
[01:43:42] <pfred1> sure
[01:44:01] <pfred1> just like reactionary wood
[01:44:07] <tlab> like it gets stressed out?
[01:44:14] <tlab> so it bends easier?
[01:44:15] <pfred1> metal has fibers and can be internally stressed as well
[01:44:37] <pfred1> well lets say you machine a piece and it springs because you relieved stress on one side
[01:44:58] <tlab> ah
[01:45:09] <pfred1> that sort of stress
[01:45:13] <tlab> ok
[01:45:15] <pfred1> like it is in internal tension
[01:45:29] <tlab> but it's going to be the table, so most likely I won't be milling it
[01:45:40] <tlab> but ya sounds like hot would still be better
[01:45:41] <pfred1> just something to think about sure cold rolled is a lot tigher tolerance but it has the stress factor too
[01:46:38] <pfred1> I mean if I think about it it dows make sense if you work metal cold it will build up more stress than worked hot
[01:46:57] <tlab> yea
[01:47:23] <tlab> this mill table sucks
[01:47:31] <pfred1> which?
[01:47:49] <tlab> fireball, has mdf table top
[01:47:58] <pfred1> though machines are typically made out of cast iron because of its absorbtive structure
[01:48:26] <pfred1> cast iron is less prone to vibration than steel
[01:48:48] <pfred1> go steal a manhole cover or something ;)
[01:50:58] <pfred1> some people use granite too
[01:51:19] <pfred1> you know like countertop stuff?
[01:51:44] <tlab> yea
[01:51:46] <pfred1> some people even make up special concrete mixes to some degree of success
[01:52:07] <pfred1> concrete can be very vibration deadening
[01:53:21] <pfred1> depending on what you're looking for any of those could be better than MDF
[01:54:12] <tlab> that problem is the mounting, it's held down in four corners 24 x 10 inches apart
[01:54:32] <pfred1> now there's a resin I've used its for dry rotted wood I don't know if it'd penetrate MDF but if it could man stuff turns like steel
[01:55:24] <pfred1> its sort of like a really thin finberglass resin but it doesn't need a hardener
[01:55:55] <pfred1> but like I said I don't even think it'd penetrate good MDF
[01:56:12] <pfred1> but if it did it'd be something else!
[01:56:25] <pcw_home> vacuum impregnate
[01:56:50] <pfred1> pcw_home something like that might work
[01:56:57] <tlab> I think I should just replace the whole cnc lol
[01:57:22] <pfred1> this is the stuff: http://www.rotheblog.com/images/arcade/tutorials/mspacstencils/minwax_woodhardener.jpg
[01:57:23] <pcw_home> I used to do that with transformers many many years ago
[01:57:57] <pfred1> tlab are you like trying to machine metals on a wood router type of machine?
[01:58:09] <tlab> just pcb's
[01:58:21] <tlab> so little bit of copper, that's about it
[01:58:24] <pfred1> tlab what kind of spindle?
[01:58:37] <tlab> paul jones spindle
[01:58:53] <pfred1> tlab that doesn't mean anything to me RPM?
[01:59:03] <tlab> suppose to be about 10k rpm
[01:59:14] <pfred1> tlab I would think for that you need to go much faster
[01:59:26] <pfred1> I mean what diameter bits are you using?
[01:59:30] <tlab> http://www.cnconabudget.com/dan_d.JPG
[01:59:43] <pfred1> no bigger than 3/32 I'd imagine
[02:00:13] <pfred1> that could be faster than 10K
[02:00:18] <tlab> 0.0050"
[02:00:30] <pfred1> carbide too no doubt
[02:00:49] <tlab> OAL
[02:01:13] <pfred1> a carbide bit that small there's is no practical upper limit to what you could run your limit would only be the flammibility of the material yo uwere working
[02:01:15] <tlab> brb need to make bed
[02:01:53] <pfred1> I'd try running faster maybe change the pulley?
[02:02:31] <pfred1> be a cheap and easy enough thing to do
[02:05:50] <tlab> I have no issue cutting the copper, it's the flatness of the table top
[02:06:10] <tlab> I had to put another mdf board on it and shim it flat
[02:06:21] <pfred1> ah
[02:06:39] <pfred1> so you're warping then?
[02:06:59] <pfred1> have you tried sealing the MDF?
[02:07:16] <tlab> the board warps in the middle
[02:07:29] <tlab> and I only have 4 bolts, in the corners
[02:07:30] <pfred1> poor support you're thinking?
[02:07:31] <tlab> sealing?
[02:07:54] <pfred1> sure if you have two pieces of MDF together that mans they each have a side not exposed to air
[02:07:57] <tlab> just a bad setup I think... maybe I'll flip the board over
[02:08:13] <pfred1> so the exposed side will swell and cause a bow
[02:08:48] <pfred1> hydroscopic stuff like wood can be very sensitive that way
[02:08:54] <tlab> the main board is 26x16, the small mdf is 10x10
[02:09:08] <tlab> the main board droops down in the middle
[02:09:16] <tlab> or sags
[02:09:20] <pfred1> yeah well MDF is known to sag
[02:09:38] <pfred1> can't just rig a support somehow huh?
[02:10:12] <tlab> has a gantry that runs underneth it
[02:10:31] <pfred1> if it were me and it really bugged me I'd support it then surface the work area
[02:10:51] <tlab> can't really support it
[02:10:51] <pfred1> and hope that did the trick
[02:11:24] <tlab> http://www.precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/scoreengrave.asp v-bits I used for isolation
[02:11:47] <tlab> the cnc works great, it's just the flatness issue that's driving me nuts
[02:12:11] <pfred1> yeah I think I see now what your issue is you got MDF sag
[02:12:14] <tlab> I should sell it and get a sherline or taig
[02:12:51] <tlab> yea I cut the pcb and half the board will be fine where the bit cuts the copper, but the other side doesn't because of the sag
[02:12:58] <pfred1> thats why people make those ribbed boxes and whatnot
[02:13:04] <tlab> then I have to get out the dial check it and shim it
[02:13:19] <tlab> ribbed boxes?
[02:13:23] <cradek> tlab: can you just make a table out of half inch aluminum? that's what we did with jepler's.
[02:13:26] <pfred1> you've never seen that?
[02:13:33] <cradek> replacing his wooden table made his machine good enough to cut pcbs.
[02:14:06] <tlab> yea I thought about doing that cradek, using cold or hot steel or aluminum
[02:14:24] <tlab> cradek, what kind of machine is it? how big a piece of alum did he use?
[02:14:40] <pfred1> tlab http://nlancaster.shackspace.com/cnc
[02:14:49] <cradek> the table is around 16" square or so I think
[02:14:54] <pfred1> tlab they're called torsion boxes
[02:15:41] <cradek> tlab: you can see the table in these photos: http://emergent.unpy.net/01245634880
[02:15:48] <tom3p> http://nlancaster.shackspace.com/cnc%20router ?
[02:17:20] <pfred1> tom3p yes my URL was no good I see I copy pasted and browser likes it spaces
[02:17:47] <tom3p> np
[02:17:54] <pfred1> all by itself MDF can't really support its own weight over a span
[02:18:33] <pfred1> but you can engineer a structure out of it that can!
[02:20:33] <tlab> http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/ is the cnc I have
[02:20:43] <tlab> there is no way to support underneth the table
[02:21:11] <pfred1> tlab it does look like it'd work in a picture though don't it?
[02:21:28] <tlab> that torsion box?
[02:21:37] <pfred1> tlab no the whole machine looks really good
[02:21:38] <cradek> yeah it might be fine if you replace that table.
[02:21:45] <tlab> yea I guess it if was small height boxes
[02:22:06] <pfred1> tlab the table looks flat as a pancake in the picture
[02:22:12] <tlab> yea it works great, cept for the table sag
[02:22:46] <tlab> I have 70 thou shims on one side of the 10x10 mdf board I have sitting on the table
[02:22:59] <tlab> and that makes it close to flat
[02:23:18] <pfred1> but like i said yo ucan stack up MDF to the moon eventually it'll sag under its own weight
[02:23:22] <tlab> the alum would be great, I just wonder if it would sag
[02:23:27] <cradek> tlab: talking about new table: http://emergent.unpy.net/01215190154
[02:23:43] <pfred1> alum will sag a lot less than MDF
[02:24:05] <pfred1> to the point where you can say its not sagging at all in your application
[02:24:40] <pfred1> I think you're better off with aluminum than steel
[02:25:15] <cradek> you can't get steel that's flat and smooth, and you certainly can't face it flat
[02:28:36] <tlab> how thick of alum? 0.25" ?
[02:28:41] <cradek> .5 +
[02:28:52] <tlab> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3706935/DSC00713.JPG
[02:28:53] <pfred1> go wild get stuff to just replace your MDF
[02:29:29] <tlab> lol all the mdf?
[02:29:40] <pfred1> yeah the whole table
[02:30:01] <pfred1> if that MDF is in there like you say it is it's just going to cause you problems
[02:30:45] <tlab> so what kind of alum, 7075? 6061?
[02:31:35] <tlab> 26.5x16 alum .5 thick is 233 bucks
[02:31:48] <cradek> ouch
[02:31:49] <pfred1> whats it weigh?
[02:31:58] <pfred1> I mean what kind of theives!
[02:31:59] <tlab> 6061
[02:32:12] <tlab> 7 lbs sq ft
[02:32:29] <pfred1> and thats what 2 maybe 3 sq feet?
[02:32:46] <tlab> yea
[02:32:52] <pfred1> so no more than 21 pounds
[02:33:10] <pfred1> aluminum can't be more than a buck a pound today
[02:33:10] <cradek> $128 for 26.5x18x.5 tooling/jig plate, first site I tried
[02:33:22] <cradek> pfred1: it certainly can
[02:33:25] <tlab> what site?
[02:33:33] <pfred1> cradek is it that high?
[02:33:43] <cradek> http://www.onlinemetalstore.com/items/C250_Aluminum_Cast_Tooling_Plate.cfm?item_id=152&size_no=3
[02:34:02] <pfred1> nah its 93 cents a pound
[02:34:20] <pfred1> well the high is $1.14
[02:35:09] <pfred1> tlab now i have to ask do you like to barbeque?
[02:35:22] <pfred1> because casting aluminum isn't much harder really
[02:35:49] <tlab> lol
[02:36:04] <pfred1> I'm serious I've melted aluminum on a wood fire
[02:36:17] <pfred1> its not rocket science
[02:36:22] <tlab> funny thing is I used to work next to a casting plant
[02:36:45] <tlab> they bring molten alum in by semi-truck
[02:36:51] <pfred1> if all you want is a flat piece it's an open mold too
[02:37:28] <pfred1> $233 for a plate sounds like highway robbery to me I'm sure if you look you can find a better deal
[02:37:45] <pfred1> go to a recycling place see what they have they'll sell it to you by weight
[02:37:48] <tlab> yea that website cradek gave me is almost half
[02:38:05] <tlab> 130 bucks
[02:38:07] <pfred1> just bring a straight wede with you to check it
[02:38:12] <pfred1> edge even
[02:38:55] <pfred1> I'm trying to think of a commodity item that is a flat aluminum plate now
[02:39:01] <pfred1> grating
[02:39:14] <pfred1> I bet you could adapt some kind of grating to your application
[02:39:32] <pfred1> I mean does it have to be solid?
[02:39:50] <tlab> there is a tool recycling place here I can buy used industrial equipment, I've see granite blocks there used for measurement with instrumentation
[02:39:59] <tlab> it would be flat, but heavy as a mofo
[02:40:02] <pfred1> heck I'd be buying grating and filling it with epoxy before i shelled out no $233
[02:41:46] <pfred1> I wonder if you could glue a piece of hardboard to some grating?
[02:41:54] <cradek> it's tempting to use a cheap surface plate, but how do you mount anything to it?
[02:42:12] <pfred1> cradek hammer drill :)
[02:42:49] <pfred1> just bang anchors into it
[02:44:56] <pfred1> a plastic anchor in a piece of rock holds pretty good
[02:45:22] <pfred1> easy 500 pounds
[02:46:46] <pfred1> them anchors are rated for like 250 poundsi n sheet rock
[03:11:40] <elmo40> good price? http://qurl.org/Mz0
[03:12:34] <cradek> nope
[03:12:47] <cradek> 35MHz isn't much of a scope
[03:13:00] <elmo40> how about 100MHz?
[03:13:21] <elmo40> what would I use for CNC machines?
[03:13:26] <cradek> that's a good quality scope if you're in the 1990 vintage
[03:13:32] <elmo40> or car stereo.
[03:13:34] <pfred1> cradek depends on your use I never go beyond that
[03:13:36] <cradek> for doing what with cnc machines?
[03:13:43] <elmo40> audio range is only to 20kHz
[03:13:56] <pfred1> cradek though a scope is only good to about 10% of its total bandwidth
[03:13:59] <cradek> I'm not saying you need more than 35MHz. That wasn't your question.
[03:14:19] <cradek> your question was whether it is a good price, and I think the answer is no
[03:14:20] <elmo40> or this oen? http://qurl.org/Nz0
[03:14:43] <pfred1> yeah i don't think I'd want that POS at any price
[03:14:51] <pfred1> elmo40 get a tek
[03:15:00] <pfred1> hitachi makes nice scopes too
[03:15:30] <pfred1> sencore ah they've kinda faded out B&K are good
[03:16:12] <pfred1> elmo40 but really its pretty much tek or nothing in the land of scopes
[03:17:06] <pfred1> elmo40 yes hitachi nice scope
[03:19:00] <elmo40> the second link is a hitachi
[03:19:21] <elmo40> 100MHz, too
[03:19:35] <pfred1> elmo40 like i said 23:17 < pfred1> elmo40 yes hitachi nice scope
[03:19:54] <pfred1> you'd be way better off wit hti than the first one
[03:20:09] <elmo40> any questions I should ask the guy?
[03:20:25] <elmo40> other then age.
[03:20:40] <cradek> does it work
[03:20:42] <pfred1> how come you're getting rid of it is about al lI ever ask
[03:21:05] <pfred1> elmo40 if he lets you use it see the hole between the probes?
[03:21:18] <cradek> age? look it up by model number
[03:21:23] <pfred1> elmo40 thats the test point insert just stuff a probe in there and see if you can get a square wave
[03:21:38] <pfred1> elmo40 if you can its all good
[03:22:24] <elmo40> http://www.mjs-electronics.se/images/Hitachi/v-1065a.jpg
[03:22:28] <pfred1> its probbaly fine though they probably just upgraded
[03:22:51] <pfred1> check the probe tips for burns
[03:22:55] <elmo40> k
[03:23:03] <elmo40> ay 'self tests' to perform?
[03:23:09] <pfred1> you can generally tell if a scope has been abused
[03:23:22] <pfred1> elmo40 I told you just use the calibration port on the thing
[03:23:36] <pfred1> if yo ucan get it to cal then its most likely fine
[03:23:47] <elmo40> like, how do you calibrate them? is there a square or sine wave that they generate so you can adjust the screen... or something?
[03:23:56] <elmo40> oh, there is a port thingy ;)
[03:23:59] <pfred1> you pull off the probe end and insert it int othe port
[03:24:05] <elmo40> kk
[03:24:10] <pfred1> ask the guy to show you how
[03:24:26] <pfred1> and if they can make a nice square wave on the screen then its OK
[03:24:30] <elmo40> I see it in the pic. lower center
[03:24:42] <pfred1> yeah right between the probes
[03:24:47] <elmo40> Probe Adjust: 0.5V 1KHz
[03:24:48] <pfred1> that hole is the calibration port
[03:25:24] <elmo40> $300 sounds OK. Saw one for 250 Euro.
[03:25:27] <cradek> http://www.mjs-electronics.se/images/Hitachi/v-1065a.jpg
[03:25:35] <cradek> cal output is on the left
[03:25:52] <pfred1> cradek I'm looking at the thumbnail
[03:26:06] <cradek> I don't really understand how cursors would be useful without storage
[03:26:12] <cradek> it's dual time base I guess
[03:26:25] <pfred1> so you can measure waveforms?
[03:26:34] <cradek> just very steady ones?
[03:26:43] <pfred1> I don't really see what use cursors would be with storage
[03:26:47] <cradek> no storage at all, as far as I can tell
[03:27:08] <pfred1> being as you actively interact with cursors
[03:27:26] <pfred1> and they're superimposed on the waveform
[03:30:33] <pfred1> elmo40 this hitachi would do the scope thing for you
[03:31:27] <pfred1> elmo40 check the probes for cracks too because probles are sick expensive
[03:31:53] <pfred1> elmo40 pretty much a scope like this if it doesn't have probes is junk
[03:32:21] <pfred1> it'd cost you close to $300 to replace them
[03:47:14] <elmo40> crazy
[03:48:38] <pfred1> hey check out what scope probes cost its like they throw in the scop for free
[04:07:54] <elmo40> like buying an inkjet printer
[04:08:37] <pfred1> elmo40 kinda yeah now that you mention it but make sure the probe leads are in good shape don't think of I'll just buy some
[04:08:55] <pfred1> because you won't
[04:09:13] <pfred1> like if they're cracked and dryrotted pass on it
[04:09:53] <pfred1> but if they're in good shape and you can run the cal OK on it I'd say its a buy
[04:10:55] <ries> pfred1: doesn't that depend on what you are interested in? some probe could be very costly, but for a old scope I would by cheaper porbes and 'know' that the wave I see on the screen might not be exactly what I would expect it to be... but it could give a lot of info depending on what the work area is
[04:11:37] <pfred1> ries i guess but still you're like getting half of what you paid for then
[04:11:50] <ries> true....
[04:12:17] <ries> if it's up to 100Khz then cheaper probes might work, at 200Mhz it might be a different story
[04:12:28] <pfred1> i just figured I'd let them know about the probe issue with scopes its not something people who don't deal with scops usually know about i mean they look like pieces of wire
[04:12:48] <pfred1> how much could they possibly cost?
[04:12:52] <ries> * ries has worked with that stuff... but looooooong time ago
[04:13:05] <pfred1> but then to go find out it can be shocking
[04:13:14] <ries> pfred1: a quick search in google gives me values of 25-50USD
[04:13:37] <pfred1> for 100 MHz Hitachi scope probes?
[04:14:31] <pfred1> not some no name crap probes
[04:14:35] <ries> closed the link... I don't think so, just cheap once
[04:14:44] <pfred1> but the probes for that scope
[04:15:06] <ries> Ahh nooooo... but, it depends what you (or the user (I just jump in)) is planning to measure
[04:15:11] <pfred1> yeah that sounds about right for whatever probes its still a chunk of change and for crap too
[04:15:37] <ries> tektronics at 200Mhz are indeed 200usd.... I am amazed about that to be honest
[04:15:55] <pfred1> tek is the stuff
[04:16:05] <pfred1> there s tek scops and everything else
[04:16:40] <ries> http://www.thefind.com/electronics/info-passive-oscilloscope-probes
[04:16:53] <pfred1> so I guess when you're the kleenex of the brand you can get away wit hthat sort of thing?
[04:17:09] <pfred1> 10X ?
[04:17:30] <ries> here is a cheap one : http://store.ldbmart.com/newosprte.html
[04:17:35] <pfred1> thats another thing have to be 10X
[04:17:57] <pfred1> because ther other probes are just pieces of wire
[04:19:17] <pfred1> I wouldn't buy a scope without probes except for parts
[04:19:27] <pfred1> as scrap
[04:19:36] <pfred1> but thats just me
[04:20:16] <ries> I would if I am just interested in waveforms, frequencies and general close ideas on what's going on in teh circuit, for audio it would work, if you need to check your stepper signals, it would work...
[04:20:30] <ries> that's what a scope is used 90% of the time anyways..
[04:20:39] <ries> well, at least what I did with it... no heavy duty!
[04:20:45] <pfred1> to me a scope is an instrument and i like my instruments tuned is all
[04:21:03] <ries> you can buy refurbished...
[04:21:08] <pfred1> not to say that there is somethingto be had otherwise but its not generally what I'm after
[04:21:47] <ries> look, a scope without probes, and often with are not calibrated anyways...
[04:22:03] <ries> so even with good probes you are not sure unless it's calibrated
[04:23:49] <pfred1> all I'm saying is scopes aren't like multimeters when it comes to the leads
[04:24:16] <ries> agreed...
[04:24:28] <ries> I am off to bed..
[04:24:36] <pfred1> and not having leads in good condition is a big deal with scopes
[04:24:40] <ries> nice talking, be back tomrrow...
[04:24:56] <pfred1> bigger than someone who doesn't know about it might assume it is
[08:58:10] <WalterN_work> why do people have to be stupid about cleaning the chips out of the machines?
[09:01:04] <WalterN_work> I go to do some centerless grinding and the filter is full, well ok, whatever... so I go to change that and the whole frigging tank is full as well
[09:02:05] <WalterN_work> I'd estimate 20-25 gallons of... powder from grinding
[09:04:25] <WalterN_work> ugh
[09:04:37] <WalterN_work> and now coworker is snoozing
[09:04:52] <WalterN_work> again
[09:25:36] <piasdom> g'mornin
[10:17:21] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:20:10] <piasdom> on axis/File/Properties . . what's the feed rate for the "run time" calulation and is it the same each time ?
[10:20:31] <piasdom> no matter what the feed override is
[10:47:01] <micges_work> piasdom: it's current feedrate of gcode
[10:48:06] <piasdom> micges;thanks... but it stays the same no matter what the feed override is
[10:48:14] <JT-Dev> I don't think it takes any accel/decel into the calc either
[10:48:54] <piasdom> ok...just what feed i have IN the file...cool
[10:49:00] <micges_work> feed override aren't used in cals
[10:49:02] <micges_work> calcs
[10:49:45] <piasdom> so if i multiply the runtime by the override, i should get a better timing ?
[10:50:08] <micges_work> more less
[10:50:08] <piasdom> that don't sound right :)
[10:50:15] <piasdom> cool
[10:50:43] <micges_work> but it's only true if you don't change FO during run
[10:50:54] <JT-Dev> the longer the moves the closer it will be the shorter the moves the farther off it will be
[10:51:59] <piasdom> thanks micges and JT, it gives me a better idea
[10:53:55] <JT-Dev> oh then there is the naive cam detector if it is use that changes the time back closer if lots of short moves are involved
[11:21:16] <piasdom> never heard of naive
[11:23:21] <JT-Dev> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_User_Concepts.html
[11:29:25] <piasdom> i see now,said the blind man to his deaf friend
[11:30:44] <piasdom> if i put g64 at the top of the file, the whole file will be ran under that tolerance ?
[11:30:56] <JT-Dev> yes
[11:31:15] <piasdom> thanks JT-Dev
[11:31:19] <JT-Dev> g64 has no tolerance without the P
[11:31:38] <piasdom> so i write g64 p.05 ?
[11:31:44] <JT-Dev> G64 without the P is default
[11:31:52] <JT-Dev> yea
[11:31:57] <piasdom> cool
[11:32:38] <JT-Dev> it really speeds up artsy fartsy things with lots of little short moves
[11:33:33] <JT-Dev> I can't cut most plasma artsy things without G64Pnn
[11:37:44] <piasdom> artsy fartsy :) you do all this at home or at a job(or both)
[11:38:19] <JT-Dev> both, I work for myself
[11:38:37] <JT-Dev> the plasma is in my shop with the Hardinge
[11:38:54] <JT-Dev> the rest of my equipment is at my partners shop
[11:39:20] <piasdom> cool, i want to see a plasma cutter in person one day
[11:40:41] <piasdom> they move so fast, in seconds you have something incredible
[11:41:27] <JT-Dev> or something useless depends on the programmer and operator lol
[11:41:55] <JT-Dev> I capped mine at 450IPM
[11:43:01] <piasdom> yea,but the customer never sees the useless part :)
[11:43:31] <JT-Dev> if he is standing next to you when you cut it he does LOL
[11:43:48] <piasdom> hahahahha
[11:43:53] <herron> telling the customer the crap is just what he wanted is an art form
[11:44:23] <piasdom> he just didn't know what he wanted
[11:44:28] <JT-Dev> I cut some SS inserts for stop lights for the railroad from the customers material and screwed one up... I still have it
[11:45:16] <JT-Dev> my lead in was too short and I burned the corner out of the letters
[13:28:42] <elmo40> picked up a tiny lathe, something similar (though I think smaller) http://www.jerry-howell.com/Maximat-7.jpg
[13:29:01] <elmo40> looks as though I can put a stepper on the handle at the far right :)
[14:21:52] <Spida> hi
[14:25:32] <Al_Smt> 2.4.0 what happened to "home all" on axis?
[14:35:23] <Spida> has http://www.mesanet.com/ disappeared?
[14:53:55] <cradek> Al_Smt: you get a home-all button if you have a homing sequence defined
[14:54:28] <Al_Smt> ah
[14:54:34] <Al_Smt> thanks
[15:01:44] <pcw_home> Spida: yes the website is down ATM, support request sent to hosting Company.
[15:01:45] <pcw_home> Theres a (slow) local copy of the website at freeby.mesanet.com
[15:08:55] <Spida> If I wanted to build an emc based system now, what hardware would you suggest? I guess PCI and parallel will be unavailable soon on new hardware, and USB is afaik not supported...
[15:10:10] <mozmck_work> I haven't heard of PCI going away, and parallel is far from dead. You can by PCI and PCIe parallel cards for $10 or so.
[15:10:37] <cradek> Spida: there's a wiki page with a huge list of modern hardware people are using successfully
[15:12:36] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[15:12:57] <Spida> mozmck_work: hm, many modern mainboards (in the consumer section) only have one pci-slot left, that reminds me of ISA which ended similarly...
[15:13:17] <Spida> yes, there are ISA boards still available, but not that affordable...
[15:13:41] <cradek> Spida: there are already pci-express mesa cards available
[15:14:25] <Spida> are they supported/working/tested?
[15:14:26] <cradek> Spida: are you asking about what hardware to buy now, or are you worried about the distant future? your question was about "now"...?
[15:15:11] <cradek> what are you wanting to run with this machine? stepper or servo?
[15:16:03] <Spida> probably servo, but undecided.
[15:23:40] <pcw_home> Yes the PCIE cards are working
[15:23:42] <pcw_home> (you can also get low cost PCIE/PCI bridges for non PCI MBs)
[15:23:43] <pcw_home> I dont see PCI going away anytime soon (because its easily bridgeable to PCIE, unlike PCI/ISA)
[15:30:02] <cradek> hi seb
[15:30:15] <Spida> so for a complete set (PCIE <-> FPGA) I would need a 6I71, a 7I68, and a 3X20-2 ?
[15:30:26] <elmo40> I don't see why parallel or serial would ever die. only get faster. what other methods of transporting a signal are there? (other then network protocal, wireless...)
[15:30:47] <Spida> thats like 540$ only to get the FPGA operating...?
[15:31:27] <cradek> Spida: you should figure out what you want to do first, then we can help you determine a good way to do it
[15:32:14] <Spida> cradek: thats one of the problems. I am not sure what I want yet *g*
[15:32:25] <elmo40> ya... and how large of a machine you want to work with. capabilities. features.
[15:32:36] <pcw_home> Well you could use a 7I43-200 and a Intel 510 MB with its on board parallel port
[15:32:39] <bricofoy> because I think you don' need absolutly an fpga card
[15:32:44] <Spida> probably I will notice that its to expensive for a student for hobby use, too *g*
[15:33:12] <bricofoy> with servo controllers that accept step/dir signals you can use juste normal // port
[15:33:31] <bricofoy> look at UHU DIY servo controller
[15:33:37] <bricofoy> or better, this one :
[15:34:02] <cradek> you can certainly pick hardware to exceed any budget if you try - but letting that fact stop you is foolish
[15:34:35] <bricofoy> http://www.max-mod-shop.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:yapscv1&catid=17:-yapsc&Itemid=4
[15:34:45] <cradek> if you have any old hardware sitting around, it's probably fine. One of my machines is a P3-1000, simple parallel port interface
[15:34:46] <Spida> I would have to build a mill, too
[15:35:12] <cradek> a machine like that costs approximately $0
[15:35:30] <Spida> for the PC, yes.
[15:36:01] <Spida> the mill would be... probably... more expensive...
[15:36:05] <cradek> a homemade hobby class machine has no need for expensive mesa cards
[15:36:44] <Spida> so where is the border where a mesa-style card would be interesting?
[15:37:13] <Spida> how far am I on the "uninteresting" side with a hobby class machine?
[15:37:32] <cradek> high speed or high resolution stepper machines, or industrial class hardware that needs analog/encoders
[15:37:52] <bricofoy> yes, some home-made hardware based on "victor sendas ballscrews" have a very low cost
[15:38:44] <pcw_home> For step and direction drives, the D510 mini ITX mother boards with their ~6 usec latency would make for really good preformance
[15:38:45] <pcw_home> with just parallel port hardware
[15:40:03] <pcw_home> (performance)
[15:40:12] <Spida> I am interested in something that could work on an area of something like 30*60*15cm with fairly high resolution (at least, what I believe is fairly high for hobby-class: something like 0,1mm to 0,05mm)
[15:40:33] <Spida> and can at least mill aluminium.
[15:41:08] <cradek> 60cm of aluminum cutting ability is a large knee mill
[15:42:32] <cradek> a bridegport series 1 cnc (3500 lb machine) has 12x18" of XY travel
[15:42:35] <elmo40> this worth the price? http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/mss/tls/1712335678.html
[15:47:10] <Spida> I am thinking more in the direction of a desktop mill...
[15:50:10] <piasdom> which video card was emc2 designed to work best with ?
[15:51:25] <bill2or3> just avoid crappy built in shared-memory cards and you should be fine.
[15:51:51] <cradek> also avoid messing with the proprietary nvidia and ati drivers
[15:52:21] <elmo40> so, intel? :P
[15:52:28] <piasdom> what other then ati and nvidia are they ?
[15:53:02] <elmo40> matrox?
[15:53:24] <piasdom> and should it have a power connection ?
[15:53:40] <elmo40> they are big in the HD world http://www.matrox.com/en/
[15:54:18] <bill2or3> the only thing you really need video for is the Axis gui, and it's not super demanding, so don't go overboard.
[15:54:33] <bill2or3> personally, I'd just use whatever you have lying around.
[15:55:51] <Optic> the cheap Intel Atom motherboards (less than $100, include cpu and video) are great
[15:55:58] <Optic> my emc2 box is a mini-itx
[15:56:52] <Optic> http://www.intel.com/Products/Desktop/Motherboards/D945GCLF/D945GCLF-overview.htm
[15:56:54] <Optic> these guys
[15:56:56] <Optic> great for emc2
[15:57:03] <Optic> and super cheap
[15:58:04] <Spida> Optic: what kind of interface to your device?
[15:58:10] <Optic> parallel port
[15:58:42] <Optic> http://www.capybara.org/~dfraser/photos/?m=image&a=hacklab%20reorg&p=1&ii=11383
[16:02:07] <piasdom> they're letting me upgrade my computer and i want to get a good card. doesn't have to be expensive
[16:41:42] <piasdom> i was looking at this; http://sewelldirect.com/Matrox-Millennium-AGP4X-32MB-DDR-Dual-Head-Video-Card-2-VGA.asp
[16:42:14] <MattyMatt> 9500GT was the best bang-per-buck NV for me. it has just enough gpu to show what acceleration can do
[16:42:20] <piasdom> but i don't need two monitors and i don't understand all their lingo :0
[16:42:41] <MattyMatt> who matrox?
[16:42:54] <piasdom> is that nivdia ?
[16:43:06] <MattyMatt> they'll try and sell you 16 monitors if you go to their front page :)
[16:43:24] <piasdom> hahahha yea
[16:43:28] <MattyMatt> that's another matrox niche. video walls
[16:43:52] <piasdom> cool..thanks
[16:45:34] <piasdom> but it has nvidia driver
[16:45:55] <MattyMatt> yeah NV is fine with emc2
[16:46:25] <MattyMatt> get another NV if you're too lazy to reinstall the driver ;)
[16:47:29] <piasdom> it's not about being lazy.....i was told NV wan't that good with emc
[16:51:15] <MattyMatt> http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=matrox+parhelia&_rdc=1
[16:51:39] <MattyMatt> you can nab one of them for $100
[16:52:36] <SWPadnos> last I knew, there weren't any easy-to-find Parhelia drivers for Linux
[16:53:10] <MattyMatt> although I dunno if the drivers are as stable as a Millenium's but they'll certainly be better at GL
[16:54:30] <MattyMatt> matrox have great developers docs. they sent me all the pdfs for the G400 when I asked nicely. unfortuantely I lost them
[16:54:32] <SWPadnos> the card is nice and quick (relative to a G450), the color rendition is much better, and it supports 3 screens (but only in analog mode, up to 1280x1024)
[16:54:52] <MattyMatt> yeah I want that 30 bit mode
[16:54:53] <SWPadnos> but that's not too relevant since drivers are a PITA
[16:55:11] <SWPadnos> 30-bit only works with analog monitors, ie CRTs
[16:55:16] <MattyMatt> I thought NV were supposed to do 30 bit these days, but I've never seen the option
[16:55:17] <SWPadnos> (from the Parhelia anyway)
[16:55:51] <MattyMatt> good point. this LCD will have an 8 bit A/D on the analog, at best
[16:56:18] <SWPadnos> it has 8-bit output to the LCD itself in any case
[16:56:19] <cradek> dvi interface can only do 24 bit color can't it?
[16:56:34] <SWPadnos> there's a "high color" mode that never seemed to catch on
[16:56:39] <cradek> or do you have a good analog crt?
[16:56:51] <SWPadnos> I think it uses 6 bits of the control channel to transfer the extra 2 bits per color
[16:56:58] <MattyMatt> I am using dvi atm, but I usually don't because my kvm is vga
[16:57:06] <SWPadnos> I do have a good analog CRT, but I'm not using the high color mode
[16:57:28] <SWPadnos> (I'm using a Parhelia on this machine, upgraded from a G450 ;) )
[16:57:47] <MattyMatt> all 3 CRT blew in six months. all lasted ~10 years
[16:58:06] <SWPadnos> I had that problem, but only on two of the three
[16:58:13] <MattyMatt> 450 is a bit of a lame one. it lacks something the G400 has, I forget what
[16:58:30] <SWPadnos> the center is a NEC FP955, the sides were from the cheapo NEC line, and died in a few years
[16:58:42] <SWPadnos> discrete scaler chip
[16:59:08] <SWPadnos> the G400 had the best quality video output, because of the add-on scaler
[16:59:20] <MattyMatt> that's the one
[17:00:39] <MattyMatt> piasdom, if you need AGP, then I'd say matrox, if PCIe then a new low end NV
[17:15:49] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/05/08/stfu/
[17:16:52] <sealive> hi
[18:49:59] <andypugh> The opto-isolators suddenly looked like a good idea when the IGBT went "Bang"
[18:51:10] <micges> andypugh: I like smell of burned igbt :)
[18:52:09] <micges> long time ago we had own servo with many igbts and invalid control program, fireworks everyday :)
[18:53:07] <andypugh> I am not entirely sure why it went bang, as that IGBT is meant to have built-in shoot-through protection.
[18:55:45] <andypugh> "A built-in temperature monitor and over-current protection, along with the short-circuit rated IGBTs and
[18:55:46] <andypugh> integrated under-voltage lockout function, deliver high level of protection and fail-safe operation."
[18:56:26] <andypugh> Hah! It just proves that as soon as you make something foolproof the world invents a better fool.
[19:27:33] <Al_Smt> how come tkemc will not load tooledit.tcl?
[19:30:04] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/10/siphon_dictionary_error/
[19:30:48] <micges> Al_Smt: did Axis load tooledit ?
[19:31:02] <Al_Smt> yes
[19:32:01] <Al_Smt> i get no such file or dir
[19:33:49] <andypugh> alex_joni: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/siphon
[19:34:11] <andypugh> Repeats the error several times, until the last entry that gets it right.
[19:35:53] <cradek> tkemc has its own tool editor built in
[19:35:59] <cradek> are you talking about that not working?
[19:36:19] <Al_Smt> no the one under file
[19:37:51] <cradek> oh there are two different ones on different menus? that's pretty awful
[19:38:01] <frallzor> lets say my model is 600x800mm and I want the tool to be offset at 0,800, why does emc move the entire limited area too then?
[19:38:24] <alex_joni> move how?
[19:38:37] <frallzor> so at 800, where I want the tool offset at 800 it suddenly thinks its at 0
[19:38:49] <frallzor> it move the entire workarea
[19:38:50] <frallzor> *s
[19:38:51] <alex_joni> did you use touch off?
[19:38:54] <frallzor> yes
[19:39:00] <alex_joni> did you enter 0 in the touch off, or 800 ?
[19:39:02] <frallzor> it says x = 800
[19:39:10] <micges> cradek: there are even 3 menu entries about tool edit
[19:39:21] <frallzor> touched of at 800 but still moves workarea too
[19:39:35] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems#So_if_you_re_lost_what_should_you_do
[19:39:43] <alex_joni> micges: :/
[19:39:54] <cradek> micges: wow
[19:40:08] <micges> only build tooleditor in works, rest two are about tooledit.tcl that are not installed into bin dir
[19:40:32] <Al_Smt> also if you ctl+alt +T you get yet another one in Tkemc toolediter that is
[19:41:33] <micges> Al_Smt: this one is for current tool parameters set
[19:41:53] <cradek> Al_Smt: the answer to your question is because it's broken, and the answer to why it's broken is tkemc is not well maintained or tested
[19:42:10] <cradek> (apparently nobody bothered to try it during the long testing cycle of 2.4)
[19:43:21] <andypugh> We should halve those developers wages, I say!
[19:45:39] <cradek> we (seb) did a lot of work to make it easy for users to help test the 2.4 betas. very few people bothered...
[19:45:52] <cradek> but yeah, cut my salary in half, I don't care
[19:46:31] <Al_Smt> sorry I just got this test machine up
[19:46:39] <cradek> and we really need a maintainer for tkemc - it should be someone who uses it regularly.
[19:46:45] <JT-Work> you can double your salary if you like cradek
[19:47:02] <cradek> JT-Work: I double it every day - it makes me feel rich
[19:47:12] <cradek> (that feeling is pretty much all I have to go on)
[19:47:27] <JT-Work> I'm just happy to wake up breathing every morning :)
[19:47:35] <Al_Smt> I'm not to handy @ tk/tcl
[19:47:48] <cradek> that just means I have to get up and go to work...
[19:49:25] <JT-Work> I think I'll have a beer... then go home
[19:50:00] <andypugh> I wonder to what extent this is due to the sort of users who were running 2.4-pre were the "new! shiny! must have!" types, and the typical tkemc user is a little (how to put this) conservative?
[19:52:04] <Al_Smt> it looks as though someone tried to implement it in Tkemc.tcl
[20:03:14] <micges> Al_Smt: you should use for now view->tools as your tool table editor
[20:03:56] <Al_Smt> yep
[20:10:45] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/pRfGnbscF/?size=medium mah baby near completion!
[20:25:30] <andypugh> frallzor: Looks rather purposeful.
[20:37:16] <frallzor> oh yeah
[21:03:18] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev wanders out to the garden to get some spring onions for the Kai Bi
[21:19:17] <frallzor> in Soviet russia spring onions gets you
[21:24:29] <JT-Hardinge> Weee! I'm upgrading the Hardinge to the official 2.4 release
[21:24:42] <pfred1> good luck
[21:25:21] <JT-Hardinge> I've been running 2.4 from the git go on here
[21:25:35] <JT-Hardinge> crap I sprang a leak in my arm
[21:28:34] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: That is a risk not mentioned in the documentation.
[21:28:51] <JT-Hardinge> leaking?
[21:28:54] <andypugh> Yes
[21:29:30] <JT-Hardinge> somethings your on your own I think :)
[21:31:02] <pfred1> andypugh you must know about this forum I see you post here
[21:31:29] <andypugh> What forum>
[21:31:30] <andypugh> ?
[21:31:39] <pfred1> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user
[21:32:33] <andypugh> Ah, that forum. I pop in very occasionally
[21:33:47] <pfred1> andypugh what do you have to do in order to post to it?
[21:34:10] <andypugh> Just sign in, I think.
[21:34:28] <pfred1> on linuxcnc?
[21:34:29] <andypugh> Presumably you need to register first.
[21:34:43] <pfred1> or is it another thing?
[21:34:59] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/
[21:35:09] <andypugh> (comunity->support forum)
[21:36:01] <pfred1> hmmm I hit the followup option seems like all I have ot do is give an email name and type in a code
[21:36:21] <Al_Smt> cradek, I added this to the ini file TOOL_EDITOR = /usr/share/emc/tcl/bin/tooledit.tcl and Tkemc loads it I also put a copy of tooledit.tcl in the /usr/share/emc/tcl/bin dir
[21:36:37] <andypugh> On that first page link, near the top, is a login/register link
[21:41:10] <Al_Smt> cradek, were is the tooledit.tcl ment to be? I got the copy from emc2-dev/src/emc/usr_intf
[21:41:16] <Al_Smt> brb
[21:43:51] <micges> it should be in emc2-dev/bin
[21:44:09] <JT-Hardinge> anyone looked at the funny conversion it does?
[21:45:27] <JT-Hardinge> I looked but don't know tcl at all...
[21:45:43] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge tickle?
[21:45:52] <JT-Hardinge> quit that
[21:47:57] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[21:49:03] <JT-Hardinge> pfred1: 2.4 loaded no problems
[21:49:59] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wanders back to the kitchen to finish the Kai Bi
[21:50:04] <Al_Smt> I meant on a installed system?
[21:51:13] <micges> /usr/bin
[21:56:27] <pfred1> oh well they're going to deny my reply because I'm a top poster their loss I suppose.
[21:56:36] <pfred1> I hate bottom posters!
[21:57:38] <Al_Smt> ok this works too "TOOL_EDITOR = /usr/bin/tooledit"
[21:59:24] <Al_Smt> and this too TOOL_EDITOR = tooledit
[22:00:00] <pfred1> Al_Smt whats which tooledit say?
[22:00:47] <Al_Smt> pfred1, Tkemc would not load it
[22:01:03] <pfred1> Al_Smt thats a funny thing for which tooledit to say!
[22:01:30] <pfred1> * pfred1 would have expected smething more along the lines of /usr/bin/tooledit
[22:01:52] <Al_Smt> that too
[22:02:22] <pfred1> then there's echo $PATH env too :)
[22:02:37] <Al_Smt> try sim tkemc
[22:02:40] <pfred1> Al_Smt wanna make it permanent?
[22:03:06] <Al_Smt> someone should
[22:03:17] <pfred1> edit ~/.bashrc and add export TOOL_EDITOR = tooledit
[22:03:30] <pfred1> well put the last part in quotes i screwed up the paste here
[22:03:49] <pfred1> edit ~/.bashrc and add export "TOOL_EDITOR = tooledit"
[22:03:51] <Al_Smt> just add that line to ini file
[22:03:55] <pfred1> that should work
[22:04:12] <Al_Smt> it does
[22:04:19] <pfred1> Al_Smt you confuse personal with global settings
[22:04:52] <Al_Smt> i mean for bug release
[22:06:01] <pfred1> well thing is what if there's more than one program that does what this tooledit does and some other people prefer those?
[22:06:40] <JT-Hardinge> tooledit is hosed for lathe configs
[22:06:59] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge so you for one wouldn't be too happy if that was in the ini file then
[22:07:33] <JT-Hardinge> in Axis you can specify what you want for tooleditor in the ini file
[22:08:14] <JT-Hardinge> it is the default in Axis but has some number conversion problems with front angle and back angle
[22:08:36] <pfred1> I'm stoked i got my second Tb6560 motor driver all soldered up here I need to make a heatsink for it then smoke test it
[22:08:46] <JT-Hardinge> I can't finger out how to fix it cause tcl is like greek to me
[22:09:00] <Al_Smt> me too
[22:09:03] <JT-Hardinge> pfred1: turn on the video first
[22:09:06] <pfred1> come on tcl is a scripting language how hard can it be?
[22:09:21] <micges> JT-Hardinge: ah I remember that issue, I was thinking that it was fixed
[22:09:43] <JT-Hardinge> I'm sure anyone with a brain can "learn" it but I'm not inspired
[22:10:09] <pfred1> I think the legend goes the guy who originally coded the tcl emc interface it was his first program
[22:10:10] <JT-Hardinge> micges: not yet, I just checked after getting the 2.4 release
[22:10:27] <pfred1> he just dove in and went for it!
[22:10:55] <JT-Hardinge> that's the same thing I did with the g code generators I put on the wiki
[22:11:10] <JT-Hardinge> I jumped in and learned python
[22:11:10] <pfred1> thats really how all of linux was made
[22:11:54] <pfred1> bbl have to get something to eat here ...
[22:12:10] <JT-Hardinge> we are having Kai Bi here come on over
[22:12:24] <micges> JT-Hardinge: iirc that issue was on iotask not tooledit..
[22:12:51] <micges> angles were saved in some messy way
[22:13:00] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[22:13:07] <JT-Hardinge> the angles are hosed
[22:13:24] <JT-Hardinge> how would iotask have any effect on tooledit?
[22:13:46] <Al_Smt> -command "exec $tooleditor $toolfilename&" \ line 781 of tkemc.tcl the & sign may need removed
[22:13:58] <micges> messy entries in tool table cause tooledit issues
[22:14:47] <JT-Hardinge> seems to be limited to frontangle and backangle for me
[22:14:59] <micges> it seems so
[22:15:18] <micges> no idea why, same format as for tool offsets
[22:16:54] <Al_Smt> unless something.tbl& is correct
[22:17:37] <micges> Al_Smt: & means run in background
[22:18:06] <micges> so you can back to gui while tooledit is running
[22:18:28] <Al_Smt> it saves the ,tbl file with this & sign
[22:18:59] <micges> ?
[22:19:04] <Al_Smt> might be me though
[22:20:18] <Al_Smt> no with that there it names the tool file with a & at the end
[22:20:55] <micges> try insering space before &
[22:21:11] <Al_Smt> ok
[22:21:41] <JT-Hardinge> micges: it has something to do with the number digits on the left side of the decimal point. 1 is ok more than 1 gives the scientific notation
[22:21:55] <Al_Smt> yep that works
[22:22:15] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[22:22:59] <micges> iirc those angles are always positive?
[22:23:15] <JT-Hardinge> I think so yes
[22:23:20] <andypugh> Night all
[22:23:33] <JT-Hardinge> say goodnight Gracie
[22:24:46] <JT-Hardinge> micges: the angles should be 0-360 or 359
[22:25:53] <jimbo> can you run an robot arm with emc?
[22:26:01] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[22:26:19] <JT-Hardinge> jimbo: up to 9 axis
[22:28:02] <jimbo> cool! Thinking of purchasing one to see what I can do with it. Would you program the movements using G code?
[22:29:41] <JT-Hardinge> yep
[22:34:15] <micges> weird, iotask write angles properly now, tooledit is broken
[22:38:36] <alex_joni> jimbo: unless you rewrite the interpreter to read something else
[22:38:46] <alex_joni> g-code is not the best thing for robot arms, but it works
[22:38:56] <alex_joni> JT-Hardinge: good night gracie
[22:40:50] <micges> I've found tooledit issue, tomorrow I'll fix it
[22:41:41] <Al_Smt> thanks
[22:42:32] <JT-Hardinge> alex_joni: good night
[22:42:41] <JT-Hardinge> micges: thanks for looking
[22:42:50] <Al_Smt> I heard the dinner bell see ya
[22:42:57] <micges> good night all
[22:43:04] <JT-Hardinge> goodnight
[22:43:43] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge thinks I'll make some more parts on the Hardinge just for fun
[22:53:27] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:15:54] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[23:19:26] <JT-Hardinge> r
[23:21:48] <JT-Hardinge> dang this Hardinge runs SWEET!
[23:23:52] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away