#emc | Logs for 2010-05-05

[00:00:14] <MattyMatt> nice bit of oak, a few swarovskis , bling bling
[00:00:17] <pfred1> who's psyched to see my latest motor driver?
[00:00:32] <pfred1> c'mon someone gotta be
[00:00:56] <MattyMatt> bring on the heatsink porn then
[00:01:05] <pfred1> MattyMatt http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8343/tb6560board.jpg
[00:01:51] <pfred1> MattyMatt that heatsink is out of a PDP 11/34
[00:03:38] <MattyMatt> I know :) I've got the classic June 73 Playsinks mag
[00:04:17] <andypugh> They retired the last of the PDP 11s at work in November last year. A sad day.
[00:04:38] <MattyMatt> I had a Sage 4 that thought it was a PDP9
[00:05:19] <andypugh> pfred1: Is that point-to-point on a hand-drilled board?
[00:05:31] <pfred1> andypugh http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9816/tb6560boardb.jpg
[00:05:54] <andypugh> That's so Fender!
[00:06:21] <MattyMatt> so Skylab
[00:06:38] <pfred1> andypugh only if it had solder lugs in teh board it'd be Fender
[00:06:59] <andypugh> True, I was stretching a point I admit.
[00:07:10] <pfred1> * pfred1 has a Fender amp
[00:07:21] <MattyMatt> tagstrips were cool
[00:07:28] <pfred1> andypugh its about 100 times easier to work on
[00:07:53] <pfred1> no making boards this way is for the birds
[00:08:08] <pfred1> I got two more to go then hopefully I'll be back to making PCBs
[00:08:39] <MattyMatt> one more. you can work Z manually :)
[00:08:49] <pfred1> andypugh I knew this guy who did hospital imaging equipment and he was always impressed with my hand made boards
[00:09:17] <pfred1> andypugh he'd say anyone can solder together a PCB but this ....
[00:10:07] <pfred1> MattyMatt 2 more boards and I'll have made 5 driver boards
[00:10:22] <pfred1> MattyMatt ther other two man they're nuts!
[00:10:29] <andypugh> 10 more boards and you will have made 13?
[00:10:35] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna mill some big circles tomorrow, for the hell of it
[00:10:55] <MattyMatt> naah, waste of wood. Iknow for a fact my Z is sloppy
[00:11:07] <pfred1> MattyMatt http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6572/stepproto1b.jpg
[00:11:54] <MattyMatt> that looks remarkably similar to Apollo age kit
[00:12:03] <pfred1> MattyMatt http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8530/pict0787a.jpg
[00:12:21] <pfred1> MattyMatt my soldering isn't quite 100% up to aerospace spec
[00:12:24] <MattyMatt> the components were spaced wider apart in that tho, so you could fix it with space gloves on
[00:13:02] <pfred1> MattyMatt when you do aerospace they want to be able to see the form of the wire
[00:13:28] <pfred1> so what you do is solder it then wick the joint
[00:13:52] <MattyMatt> makes sense
[00:13:55] <pfred1> but you're using mil spec parts then and they can take the beating
[00:14:55] <pfred1> MattyMatt BTW no one ever fixed no boards with space gloves on if it broke they just rode it in however
[00:15:14] <MattyMatt> I know, but for a false sense of reassurance :)
[00:15:21] <pfred1> MattyMatt the first time they landed on the Moon the computer had crashed
[00:15:34] <pfred1> Niel was like we're putting this baby down!
[00:15:59] <pfred1> he was like yeah yeah i can count to 30
[00:16:21] <MattyMatt> no that was an error that had already been discounted as harmless
[00:16:37] <MattyMatt> I read that story not so long ago
[00:16:37] <pfred1> no it was information overloaded he did it by feel
[00:16:58] <pfred1> the comp had completely crapped out by the time they were like 100 feet from the surface
[00:17:41] <pfred1> comp they'd have been better off with a stepper motor glued to a slide rule
[00:17:54] <andypugh> It was dumping non-core functions, but working fine.
[00:18:15] <andypugh> Rope memory! Kewl
[00:18:44] <andypugh> pfred1: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CDy0uZt-R2w2ety9OM0iSQ?feat=directlink
[00:18:53] <pfred1> andypugh when they worked on the LEM they had to keep pans on the floor because if you dropped a tool it'd have gone through the floor
[00:19:15] <andypugh> pfred1: But only in gravity....
[00:19:40] <pfred1> andypugh whats that board underneith?
[00:19:43] <andypugh> (I have a lot of wires on that board now)
[00:20:04] <andypugh> Underneath is the Arduino that does the actual work
[00:20:13] <pfred1> andypugh you make that too?
[00:20:23] <andypugh> No, I bought that.
[00:20:32] <andypugh> They cost $25
[00:20:35] <pfred1> andypugh yeah what'd that set you back?
[00:20:39] <pfred1> oh thats not bad
[00:20:49] <andypugh> Seeduino is cheaper
[00:20:50] <MattyMatt> I don't like that style of prototyping. wire wrap kynar ftw
[00:21:05] <pfred1> wirewrap corrodes
[00:21:23] <andypugh> Verowire is nice and compact.
[00:21:46] <MattyMatt> too compact for bugfinding
[00:22:24] <MattyMatt> I solder the wirewrap too, once it's all working :)
[00:22:27] <pfred1> andypugh for doing the .1 spaced logic I'd be better off but I'm a masochist so I stick with my bell wire
[00:22:48] <andypugh> yeah, any errors I rip it out and try again. It's pretty quick with the wiring pen.
[00:23:24] <pfred1> andypugh pretty soon I'll be making PCBs again
[00:24:04] <pfred1> this next one I'm going to edit my libeary element and give myself a little more room between the ZIP leg rows
[00:24:14] <pfred1> they're just too close together
[00:25:04] <andypugh> I am really very impressed with the Arduino. I know it isn't anything you can't do more cheaply and/or better in other ways, but as a way to go from zero to coding to working in no time flat it is brilliant.
[00:25:06] <MattyMatt> are you gonna make a case?
[00:25:08] <pfred1> last weekend yard saling I picked up a Speedex wire stripper it works on my teflon wire its nice
[00:25:45] <MattyMatt> I had a special tooth gap for stripping kynar
[00:25:51] <pfred1> MattyMatt I'm pretty good fabricating so I'll make some sort of a box though i may mount the motor drivers right next to the motors
[00:26:20] <pfred1> MattyMatt I figure it'd be better to have just the power and step and dir signals flying around as opposed to the motor phases
[00:26:24] <MattyMatt> that was the first of my teeth to break. I don't do that anymore
[00:27:04] <andypugh> I thought that Kynar didn't need stripping?
[00:27:15] <MattyMatt> pfred1 yeah that was my intention, but apparently that makes your digi signals vulnerable
[00:27:19] <pfred1> andypugh teflon sure does
[00:27:51] <MattyMatt> I forget who told me that here
[00:28:23] <MattyMatt> it makes sense to me tho. the motor wires should be as short as poss
[00:28:32] <pfred1> MattyMatt I run my digital signals right now intentionally right between the motor phase wires doesn't seem to affect it any I paid special attention to signal strength shaping with my project
[00:29:38] <MattyMatt> I expect motors with built in drivers will become more common in future
[00:29:56] <pfred1> I got a nanotec motor like that
[00:29:59] <pfred1> its a POS
[00:30:47] <pfred1> though motor drivers are a lot cheaper today
[00:31:12] <MattyMatt> if it's pre-mosfet, then of course it's shit :)
[00:31:13] <pfred1> I think even geckos are coming down in price or up in features
[00:31:32] <pfred1> nah its TA8450 based
[00:31:46] <pfred1> though a german licensed version
[00:31:51] <andypugh> Night chaps.
[00:31:55] <pfred1> nite
[00:31:56] <MattyMatt> gngt
[00:32:26] <pfred1> really its how I found out about the BT6560 so I can't knock it too bad i guess
[00:32:32] <pfred1> TB6560 even
[00:32:46] <MattyMatt> I found out about them on ebay :)
[00:33:12] <MattyMatt> I had 1A motors, and a choice of 2A or 3.5A driver
[00:33:19] <pfred1> well after I got clued int othem i saw all the chinese boards
[00:33:42] <pfred1> I still don't know how well engineered they are I think there are a few different kinds
[00:34:09] <pfred1> some I've seen look pretty rough to me
[00:34:19] <MattyMatt> I think they're all from the same big factory
[00:34:33] <pfred1> nah there's at least 3 different variants I've seen
[00:35:00] <MattyMatt> the same factory does variants too. with buttons & without
[00:35:32] <pfred1> none of them seem to allow you to change all parameters
[00:35:51] <MattyMatt> yeah just 6 dip switches per chip on mine
[00:36:13] <pfred1> yeah thats not quite enough to vary everything I don't think
[00:36:21] <MattyMatt> no 1/4 step
[00:36:30] <MattyMatt> not that I miss it
[00:36:52] <pfred1> there's TQ1 &2 DCY1 &2 and M1 &2 so I guess 6 should do it
[00:37:20] <pfred1> yeah my machine can't output enough steps at 1/16th step
[00:37:46] <pfred1> though bizarrely it'll give me a much higher rate than it will on 8th
[00:38:12] <pfred1> its till not enough for any real speed
[00:39:00] <pfred1> I think I am going to tun in 1-2 W
[00:39:17] <pfred1> which best as i can figure it is 8th stepping
[00:40:04] <MattyMatt> I'm not too concerned with speed atm, until I've got proper leadscrews
[00:40:39] <pfred1> I'm going to run 1/2-10 acmes
[00:40:48] <pfred1> good enough
[00:41:16] <pfred1> with HPDE nuts
[00:41:26] <MattyMatt> my Y screw is 1m long. I need either very skinny or very thick
[00:41:32] <pfred1> I'll buy a tap and make them i have stock here
[00:41:55] <MattyMatt> I'm still using tapped 2mm steel plate for nuts :)
[00:42:09] <pfred1> yeah go with plastic its nice
[00:42:23] <pfred1> I've used plastic with polished all thread and even thats pretty nice
[00:42:41] <pfred1> plastic is elastic
[00:42:47] <pfred1> it takes up slack
[00:43:21] <pfred1> and yeah the nuts wear but it beats wearing out your leads
[00:43:53] <MattyMatt> I was going to use a split nut, but that was when the table was going to stick out the front
[00:44:01] <pfred1> next to ballscrews plastic nuts are where its at
[00:44:46] <MattyMatt> the split nut would have been opened by a sprung handle under the table, so you could push the table away when power was off
[00:44:47] <pfred1> even bronze sorta sucks compared to plastic
[00:45:43] <pfred1> MattyMatt do you have a lot of backlash with your steel?
[00:45:52] <MattyMatt> I'm looking out for delron chopping boards :) they make good gears too I believe
[00:46:10] <pfred1> delrin really its HPDE
[00:46:21] <pfred1> HDPE even
[00:46:26] <MattyMatt> all the backlash is from the loose screws that let the plate slide sideways
[00:46:30] <pfred1> or UHMW
[00:46:51] <MattyMatt> I tried tightening those, jammed axis
[00:46:55] <pfred1> I bought some chunks of the stuff on ebay
[00:47:11] <pfred1> what sort of linear setup do you have?
[00:47:14] <pfred1> your slides
[00:47:27] <pfred1> really i have this concept for something totally new I'm going to try
[00:47:27] <MattyMatt> drawer slides :)
[00:47:45] <pfred1> yeah go with at least the skate bearing deal and the angle iron
[00:47:57] <pfred1> its affordable and seems to make mechanical sense to me
[00:48:18] <pfred1> if your slides are really sloppy you're going to run into jambing issues
[00:48:28] <MattyMatt> they're not sloppy
[00:48:41] <pfred1> I have this idea to eliminate slides all together well bearings and all
[00:49:03] <MattyMatt> linear steppers on a cushion of air?
[00:49:14] <pfred1> no thats been done
[00:49:36] <MattyMatt> I know. they look nice
[00:49:43] <pfred1> I saw one guy on the net with something similar
[00:49:43] <Valen> apeedy
[00:49:46] <Valen> speedy
[00:49:47] <MattyMatt> that's what I'd like
[00:49:56] <pfred1> but even they didn't have it completely
[00:50:23] <pfred1> go with belt drive for speed
[00:50:40] <pfred1> lead screws are well they have their problems
[00:50:42] <MattyMatt> yeah in a woodworking machine. I'd need much bigger motors tho
[00:51:17] <MattyMatt> I think. my ballscrew axis is 8x faster with 8x bigger pitch
[00:51:29] <pfred1> I scored 220 oz/in motors for $14.95 a piece
[00:51:50] <MattyMatt> 60ozin, 4 for 10gbp
[00:52:09] <pfred1> they're not slo-syns are they?
[00:52:15] <MattyMatt> lucky bid, the same seller was getting 35 usually
[00:52:22] <MattyMatt> yep slosyn
[00:52:30] <pfred1> oh gawd what voltage are they?
[00:52:41] <pfred1> not the 11.4s i hope!
[00:52:43] <MattyMatt> I'm running on 12 atm
[00:52:54] <MattyMatt> no these are 5V 8 wire
[00:52:55] <pfred1> no the motors rated voltage
[00:53:00] <pfred1> OK the 5 is better
[00:53:05] <pfred1> but not much
[00:53:14] <pfred1> I have one here
[00:53:30] <pfred1> yeah those motors are slow
[00:53:45] <pfred1> I don't even think they're hybrids
[00:53:56] <MattyMatt> no magnets in them at all?
[00:54:04] <MattyMatt> I suspected as much
[00:54:08] <pfred1> let me check
[00:54:15] <pfred1> if they do they'll stick together
[00:55:37] <pfred1> no stick here
[00:55:40] <MattyMatt> I'm happy with them. I bought them when my plans were smaller, and they've got my machine up
[00:56:11] <pfred1> well all I'm saying is they're about 1 step above floppy drive motors is all
[00:56:40] <MattyMatt> they will get retired. I didn't get 3.5A driver for the looks :)
[00:56:44] <pfred1> for about 10 pounds a piece you could get far better motors
[00:57:03] <pfred1> MattyMatt are you in a more urban area?
[00:57:19] <MattyMatt> urban enough yeah
[00:57:26] <pfred1> like is there a place that leases copiers by you?
[00:57:43] <MattyMatt> there is/was I'll hafta go look
[00:57:46] <pfred1> chum up to the guy and get them to let you strip a few machines
[00:57:59] <pfred1> they got radical stuff in them!
[00:58:17] <pfred1> slides ballscrews motors belts cogs
[00:58:34] <pfred1> you want the big commercial copiers
[00:58:45] <pfred1> things about the size os a washing machine
[00:59:10] <pfred1> when they lease up they usually just scrap the things
[00:59:56] <MattyMatt> the scrappage is usually done through proper channels now. I'd be better off going to the recycling place
[01:00:07] <pfred1> Ok sure if you can do that
[01:00:28] <pfred1> but big commercial copiers are gold mines for DIY CNC
[01:00:44] <MattyMatt> yeah, I believe so
[01:01:18] <pfred1> I saw a thread on CNCzone I was like wholly!
[01:01:31] <pfred1> one guy had like 14 nice stepper motors out of 4 machines
[01:01:33] <MattyMatt> I'll survive with these untill I've sold enough millage to get my car fixed :)
[01:01:57] <pfred1> double stack NEMA 23s
[01:03:10] <pfred1> I have to do brake lines on one of my vehicles here
[01:03:44] <MattyMatt> mine just needs a tax disc and a battery
[01:03:46] <pfred1> I can't even find them online i have to cal laround to parts places see if they can find me anyhting
[01:03:55] <MattyMatt> at least, it did last time I started it
[01:04:17] <pfred1> batteries can be funny I've seen them come back
[01:04:28] <pfred1> I've seen them not come back too
[01:04:38] <MattyMatt> this one didn't :)
[01:04:55] <MattyMatt> I tried the sulphate removing tabs an everything
[01:04:59] <pfred1> we knew a guy who'd cut the top off hose it out refill it and always make them come back
[01:05:14] <Valen> if you have a battery charger, cycling it a few times can help
[01:05:15] <MattyMatt> with fresh acid?
[01:05:32] <pfred1> Valen yup and smart chargers can do strange things to revive batteries too
[01:05:52] <pfred1> MattyMatt well yeah he'd make up new electrolyte
[01:06:03] <MattyMatt> my smart charger just lights a yellow "battery too fucked" light. I have to use the dumb one
[01:06:12] <pfred1> MattyMatt what usually happens to kil la lead acid battery is flakes fall between the plates and short the cells out
[01:06:55] <pfred1> so sometimes dropping them can help etc
[01:07:03] <MattyMatt> tried it :)
[01:07:09] <pfred1> within reason of course
[01:07:29] <pfred1> then there's always lurking in parking lots at nite ...
[01:07:32] <MattyMatt> shaken it along the plane of the plates, all I can
[01:08:09] <MattyMatt> within reason, as I'm working indoors
[01:08:19] <pfred1> I just get my batteries at Walmart here now they're like $30 and they're OK
[01:08:24] <MattyMatt> no garage, no workshop
[01:08:43] <pfred1> well I have a workshop garage but its too full now to get a vehicle in to work on
[01:08:54] <pfred1> but it was nice before i filled it all up
[01:09:40] <MattyMatt> the law here is you can build a garage 1/2 the size of your garden :)
[01:10:21] <MattyMatt> that's be a whole heap of corrugated roofing in your case
[01:10:50] <pfred1> yeah I don't think anything stops me from putting up an acre building
[01:11:10] <pfred1> you should have seen the building on this one property i looked at
[01:11:19] <pfred1> it took me like 10 minutes just to walk around the thing
[01:13:55] <MattyMatt> I wish I had space for my table saw. it's a bit pointless if it can't handle 8x4 sheets
[01:14:12] <pfred1> I built an outfeed table for mine
[01:14:56] <MattyMatt> I can use it for straightening stuff, but it's scary pushing pieces past a 16" TC tipped blade, even with a stick
[01:15:47] <pfred1> MattyMatt http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8237/pict0256l.jpg
[01:16:50] <Valen> MattyMatt, make a gantry mill and route yer stuff out instead ;->
[01:16:53] <MattyMatt> neat. mines in a steel table already, so I'd need extensions to match
[01:17:08] <pfred1> MattyMatt how come?
[01:17:11] <MattyMatt> Valen, same space required :)
[01:17:22] <Valen> make it vertical
[01:17:23] <MattyMatt> matching leg length :)
[01:17:50] <pfred1> really I've redone this since this pic was taken made it all free standing
[01:17:57] <MattyMatt> Valen not a bad plan, that's how they've got the sheet cutting station at the DIY store
[01:17:58] <pfred1> put a nice power switch on it too
[01:18:10] <pfred1> panel cutters they're called
[01:18:13] <Valen> waste less timber this way
[01:18:17] <pfred1> panel saws
[01:18:59] <MattyMatt> and what height up the wall does the 16" TC whirling blade of death go? neck height?
[01:19:49] <pfred1> I made this with my new outfeed table http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2033/shelfy.jpg
[01:19:53] <pfred1> well two of them actually
[01:20:07] <MattyMatt> maybe I should pass this one on to somebody with less fondness for fingers
[01:20:59] <pfred1> http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/508/shelves.jpg
[01:20:59] <MattyMatt> the TC tips are obviously for melamine
[01:21:31] <Valen1> Valen1 is now known as Valen
[01:21:57] <pfred1> I got them both out of a full sheet
[01:22:16] <MattyMatt> neat
[01:22:40] <pfred1> but yeah outfeed table and breaking down sheets goes well
[01:23:07] <MattyMatt> I'd need 8ft wide too, for slicing it for my mill
[01:23:37] <pfred1> I can cut 3 feet into a sheet with my fence
[01:23:49] <pfred1> or something like that
[01:23:50] <MattyMatt> I'll get the first one cut into 1x4s at that DIY store. they have nice plywood
[01:24:16] <pfred1> I been planning on making an extension to my fence guide but so far it hasn't come up
[01:24:47] <MattyMatt> I need to square, true & stiffen my whole fence
[01:24:57] <pfred1> I made my fence
[01:25:02] <pfred1> from scrap
[01:25:06] <pfred1> I mean scratch
[01:25:08] <MattyMatt> nice
[01:25:18] <MattyMatt> mine is well used
[01:26:01] <pfred1> http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2234/fenceside.jpg
[01:26:24] <MattyMatt> I won't be doing any upgrades while I'm living @ momma's tho
[01:26:39] <pfred1> http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/453/camq.jpg
[01:26:54] <MattyMatt> it's a big house, but it's all house & garden
[01:26:59] <pfred1> thats my spring loaded cam lock
[01:27:42] <MattyMatt> neat. nice is plastic and getting a bit floppy
[01:28:35] <MattyMatt> I was thinking of making plywood ones for clamping sheet on the mill, but the levers would break
[01:29:32] <MattyMatt> the performace of the machine is impressing me tho. I'm gonna try brass & alu real soon
[01:29:33] <pfred1> http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8803/auxfence.jpg
[01:30:07] <MattyMatt> especially with a real milling tool. it moves nicely through wood
[01:30:26] <pfred1> what kind of a spindle do you have?
[01:30:31] <Jymmm> that fence doens't sit flush with the table - is it adjustable?
[01:30:43] <pfred1> Jymmm you're high
[01:30:58] <Jymmm> look at the last pic
[01:31:06] <Jymmm> there's an 1/8" gap
[01:31:08] <pfred1> Jymmm the t slot is under it
[01:31:28] <pfred1> I cut 1/16th sheet with it its OK OK?
[01:31:38] <MattyMatt> my spindle http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5715/p1010046m.jpg
[01:32:05] <MattyMatt> $30 with 50 useful accessories
[01:32:06] <pfred1> MattyMatt speed is adjustable
[01:32:20] <pfred1> MattyMatt what RPms does it do?
[01:32:51] <MattyMatt> it claims 35k, but I never go above 4 on the dial, so around 20k
[01:33:14] <pfred1> we can just call it high speed
[01:33:16] <MattyMatt> I don't like the noise it makes above 4 :)
[01:33:47] <pfred1> polish the commutator with like 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper
[01:34:04] <pfred1> that should smooth it out some its usually brush noise with that sort of a motor
[01:34:23] <pfred1> you make a thin strip and sort of do the old shoe shine trick to it
[01:34:25] <MattyMatt> I think it's the bearings that start to rattle. or that top one in its rubber band
[01:34:45] <pfred1> bad bearings can do it too
[01:35:38] <MattyMatt> I'd buy another one of these. I think they're worth it
[01:35:58] <MattyMatt> biggest drawback is collet size. 1/8" max
[01:36:04] <pfred1> I got dome B&D RTX little die grinders for $10 a piece
[01:36:20] <pfred1> they're sort of like Dremels
[01:36:36] <pfred1> they take dremel collets
[01:37:15] <MattyMatt> mine too I think
[01:37:30] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt goes to mearure OD of collet
[01:38:56] <pfred1> maybe i should slap this onto my CNC machine? http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/263/hitachim12v.jpg
[01:39:23] <MattyMatt> 0.193" that's probably 5mm
[01:39:56] <MattyMatt> hmm, so a 4mm collet would probably work
[01:40:16] <MattyMatt> made of something that won't tear
[01:40:51] <MattyMatt> 4mm cutters are much easier to buy than 3mm, and cheaper and longer
[01:41:08] <pfred1> if my mill didn't have such insane backlash I'd think about CNCing it
[01:41:37] <pfred1> it has like a turn of backlash though
[01:41:46] <MattyMatt> encoders on the table. work on that aspect first, just for DRO
[01:42:26] <MattyMatt> when you're ready to close the loop, bung on servos
[01:42:31] <pfred1> well that and spindle speed is far too slow for what I'd like to do
[01:42:49] <pfred1> I've tried doing wood on it it comes out crappy top speed is 2,500 RPM
[01:43:20] <pfred1> which is way too slow for doing wood
[01:43:54] <MattyMatt> those handheld routers have nice wood cutters, but bloody expensive for shapes
[01:43:55] <pfred1> really its a drill press with an X Y table
[01:44:11] <pfred1> I bought a 50 piece set
[01:44:32] <pfred1> 1/2" collet size
[01:44:35] <MattyMatt> nice
[01:44:45] <pfred1> yeah i may have used like 5 of them
[01:45:02] <pfred1> just how stuff like that goes you know?
[01:45:14] <pfred1> you never know which 5 you'll use
[01:45:34] <MattyMatt> I do. I have diamond dust burrs with mine, but with no water on the table, I ain't cutting glass
[01:45:58] <pfred1> actually depending on the glass you could heat fracture it
[01:46:20] <pfred1> don't ask me how i know these things ....
[01:47:11] <MattyMatt> I'm hoping to transform mine gradually into a metal machine
[01:47:37] <MattyMatt> or I may just start again with the mk2
[01:47:45] <pfred1> I have a metal machine and honestly i just need simple shapes
[01:47:46] <MattyMatt> wider this time
[01:47:58] <pfred1> square
[01:48:07] <pfred1> so thick
[01:48:10] <MattyMatt> 4" square would be nice
[01:48:12] <pfred1> flat
[01:48:23] <MattyMatt> 4' I mean
[01:48:26] <pfred1> thats what machining usually boils down to
[01:49:33] <pfred1> I bought a really messed up vise at a fleat market if I'd known how messed up it really was I don't think I'd have bought it
[01:49:45] <pfred1> but anyways i did and when I got stuck with it I completely remachined it
[01:50:21] <MattyMatt> I'll want a lathe before I want to upgrade this mill
[01:50:23] <pfred1> but its nothing you could have CNCed
[01:51:05] <MattyMatt> beyond my next planned round of improvements
[01:51:20] <pfred1> I have a few lathes but nothing too great yet
[01:51:46] <pfred1> really I'm sort of out of space at the moment
[01:52:12] <MattyMatt> one more slide on the X, and glue & screw all the laminations in the Z, and I'll be done for a while
[01:52:14] <pfred1> I htink i have a plan for what I'm going to do with this CNC machine I'm building
[01:52:39] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt makes an asimo, and then teaches it to hold a dremel
[01:52:40] <pfred1> I have a cart and I'm thinking of putting it onto the cart
[01:53:19] <MattyMatt> bugger dremel, teach it to hand scrape a lathe bed :)
[01:53:42] <MattyMatt> oil breaks every tuesday
[01:53:51] <pfred1> that is really what all projects come down to is do you have the patience to persevere
[01:54:23] <pfred1> I started my CNC project almost 10 years ago now but some things happened and I had to put it aside this time I'm trying to finish it
[01:54:35] <MattyMatt> yeah even space isn't a showstopper if you tidy everything away
[01:55:21] <MattyMatt> I liked that solsylva foldaway design
[01:55:25] <pfred1> for me it pretty much is s showstopper: http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9807/garagep.jpg
[01:55:33] <MattyMatt> but a bit lightweight for what I wanted
[01:56:15] <MattyMatt> hmm, vertical machine tho
[01:56:15] <pfred1> thats an old pic before i had more tools ;)
[01:56:45] <MattyMatt> vertical = free dust extraction
[01:57:02] <MattyMatt> from the immediate vicinity of the tool, anyway :)
[01:57:09] <pfred1> I have at least 3 shop vacs that I can think of
[01:58:39] <MattyMatt> I'd like to do a machine that you set up in front of a wall, and it carves the wall
[01:59:06] <pfred1> why not let it carve flat then prop it up?
[01:59:19] <MattyMatt> brick walls etc
[01:59:37] <pfred1> and?
[01:59:44] <MattyMatt> existing ones
[01:59:56] <pfred1> thatsh ow they build down south they pour on the ground then raise the panels
[02:00:01] <MattyMatt> for brightening up boring walls
[02:00:50] <pfred1> there's a lot of pretty decorative brick bonds
[02:01:04] <MattyMatt> britain was mostly fully built by 1930
[02:01:26] <pfred1> didn't the nazis bomb some of it though?
[02:01:29] <MattyMatt> this victorian stuff will last another couple of centuries
[02:02:05] <MattyMatt> yeah that all got replaced by crap
[02:02:10] <pfred1> here we don't expect commercial buildings ot last much more than 50 years
[02:02:12] <MattyMatt> we were skint after the war
[02:02:29] <pfred1> thats standard building lifespan
[02:03:24] <MattyMatt> our 19th C industrial buildings are all being turned into posh apartments
[02:03:44] <MattyMatt> while industry uses corrugated sheds now
[02:03:49] <pfred1> skip that
[02:03:59] <pfred1> new is nice
[02:04:18] <MattyMatt> bricks thick is nice
[02:04:23] <pfred1> thats what i do is construction I see the insides of old buildings and they're crap
[02:04:24] <MattyMatt> 4 bricks thick
[02:04:40] <pfred1> yeah with the mortar all rotted out from acid rain
[02:04:57] <pfred1> they made crap mortar years ago too
[02:05:14] <MattyMatt> 19th C britain was the superpower. we used the best portland cement :)
[02:05:31] <MattyMatt> and you do have to keep pointing the bricks :)
[02:05:36] <pfred1> we did this one building and we couldn't get a wall core sample to send out to the lab for testing so the whole building had to come down
[02:05:50] <pfred1> whole building was rattled apart
[02:06:09] <MattyMatt> it happens
[02:06:15] <pfred1> it sure did
[02:06:33] <MattyMatt> but everything rots if you leave it in the rain
[02:06:33] <pfred1> what a fiasco that job was
[02:06:51] <pfred1> nah new mortars are way better tha nthe old junk
[02:07:19] <pfred1> now a days brick is just used for facing its not structural
[02:07:41] <MattyMatt> the roman stuff was good. the roman wall in London is still loadbearing
[02:07:53] <pfred1> there'll be a block wall behind it and a steel frame inside that and the bricks will be held to the blocks by wall ties
[02:08:13] <pfred1> thats how modern construction is done
[02:08:16] <MattyMatt> yeah
[02:08:42] <MattyMatt> we do the same here, but without the steel frame :)
[02:08:57] <pfred1> if you get up on top of an old brick building and look down the wall yo ucan see the whole wall
[02:09:07] <pfred1> because they made them tapered
[02:09:17] <MattyMatt> the big housebuilding firm says wooden frame Saves You Money
[02:09:43] <pfred1> but you can't tell unless you're looking down the wall
[02:10:20] <pfred1> thats how crappy brick construction is
[02:10:33] <pfred1> the old timers knew not to run the walls straight up!
[02:10:42] <MattyMatt> wattle & daub
[02:11:11] <MattyMatt> aka twigs & mud
[02:11:20] <MattyMatt> that's what we had before bricks
[02:11:58] <pfred1> you guys built in wood
[02:12:07] <pfred1> England used to be one huge forest
[02:12:54] <MattyMatt> in the 11th C, you were allowed to cut 12 trees to build a house when you married
[02:12:58] <pfred1> though i suppose most of the wood was used either for shipbuilding or charcoal
[02:13:42] <MattyMatt> or for entertaining the king's hunting party
[02:14:14] <pfred1> yeah I guess the king chopped down 11 really big trees?
[02:14:22] <pfred1> or 12 rather
[02:14:38] <MattyMatt> different laws for commoners :)
[02:15:18] <MattyMatt> and his castle was stone, anyway
[02:15:30] <pfred1> actually back then they weren't
[02:15:38] <pfred1> though they'd facade them to look like it
[02:16:06] <pfred1> stone castles didn't hit til after the 15th century
[02:16:53] <pfred1> stone can be real crap to build with too no insulative value what so ever
[02:17:16] <pfred1> it takes something like 12 feet of stone to equal a 6" bat of fiberglass
[02:17:17] <MattyMatt> so that's where all his trees went
[02:17:23] <MattyMatt> drive in fireplaces
[02:17:51] <pfred1> most of those thick walls were two walls with fill in between them
[02:18:03] <MattyMatt> yeah
[02:18:17] <MattyMatt> and secret tunnels
[02:18:24] <pfred1> lets face facts they dodn't know what they were doing back then
[02:19:07] <MattyMatt> roger bacon was the only real scientist of the age
[02:19:09] <pfred1> one of my hobbies is reading about technologies
[02:19:30] <pfred1> and it never ceases to amaze me how recent ancient really is
[02:19:57] <pfred1> like i love reading about the english industrial revolution
[02:20:04] <MattyMatt> I was amazed reading the 1910 popmech. apart from plastics&computers, nothing has changed
[02:20:34] <pfred1> oh don't sell the ancients short they could measure to a millionth of a meter back in like 1850
[02:21:32] <pfred1> they could measure it they just couldn't machine it
[02:22:54] <pfred1> was it Watts with the steam engine?
[02:23:17] <pfred1> he couldn't get anyone to bore a cylinder within a quarter of an inch of round
[02:23:28] <MattyMatt> it was in the traditional histories, but a couple of others share the billing now
[02:24:03] <pfred1> it was simply beyond their abilities to do at the time
[02:24:08] <MattyMatt> it's the cultur that gets the credit now, they were all going around looking at each others
[02:24:40] <MattyMatt> Watts was like the 3rd working one
[02:25:12] <mozmck2> how do you tell emc to look for a home switch in the opposite direction it's trying to look in?
[02:25:13] <pfred1> didn't watts figure out the valving?
[02:25:31] <pfred1> they had kids with ropes running the first steam engines
[02:25:32] <MattyMatt> he made incremental improvements, as did the next guy
[02:25:43] <MattyMatt> it wasn't a lone genius scenario
[02:25:53] <atmega> change the sign on the home velocity
[02:26:00] <pfred1> well he was the first one that had an engine you could fire up and run
[02:26:27] <MattyMatt> but boys are cheap
[02:26:41] <pfred1> and unreliable
[02:27:05] <MattyMatt> whips are cheap too
[02:27:31] <pfred1> the story goes one was working the ropes and his friends were all playing in a field nearby so the boy tied his ropes to levers so he could go play with his friends and a foreman saw what the boy had done and came up with the valve train
[02:27:35] <MattyMatt> and you can always threaten to throw their mothers out of their homes
[02:28:14] <mozmck2> thanks atmega, didn't see that in the docs until you mentioned it.
[02:28:44] <pfred1> MattyMatt this is one of my favorite reads: http://www.history.rochester.edu/ehp-book/shb/start.htm
[02:28:56] <pfred1> MattyMatt basolutely amazing stuff
[02:30:09] <MattyMatt> ace hairdo at 35
[02:31:55] <pfred1> the guy had clarity of vision
[02:35:15] <MattyMatt> his dad wasn't a slouch either, by the sound of it
[02:35:49] <pfred1> I find that whole thing one of the best stories I've ever read
[02:37:46] <MattyMatt> wow, queue is italicised as a foreign word
[02:43:00] <morfic> cool, bessemer visited my hometown too
[02:43:14] <pfred1> morfic bessemer was a god
[02:44:14] <pfred1> we'd still be groveling in the dirt if not for bessemer
[02:48:45] <MattyMatt> " if the exhaustion of our coal does not land us again into a state of barbarism. " c'est plus ca change
[02:49:17] <morfic> MattyMatt: s/coal/oil/ ?
[02:49:27] <MattyMatt> s/oil/uranium/
[02:49:31] <pfred1> morfic fossil fuels
[02:50:02] <morfic> pfred1: a'ight
[02:52:40] <MattyMatt> even geothermal probably has to be counted as a fossil fuel
[02:56:36] <MattyMatt> plenty of that though :) and if it does run out, we'll have a giant ball bearing
[03:00:18] <MattyMatt> as soon as robots are small & tough enough to go down a borehole and cut across to the other borehole to make a heat exchanger, we'll get all our energy that way
[03:02:02] <apostrophe> apostrophe is now known as `
[03:02:24] <`> ` is now known as apostrophe
[03:02:33] <EricKeller> there are some pretty tough little robots for things like that
[03:32:59] <Dave911> logger_emc:bookmark
[03:32:59] <Dave911> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-05-05.txt
[04:16:15] <garage_seb> oops, 3/8 is .375, not .1875...
[04:50:11] <elmo40> garage_seb: but it is the radius... and that is what you use for compensation
[05:25:28] <elmo40> interesting... http://www.ponoko.com/
[06:02:01] <isssy> hi all
[08:52:51] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[09:32:29] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[13:00:06] <grommit> Yesterday, SWPadno suggested I run "halcmd show sig" and remove any connections that only had one thing connected to them (aka unconnected ones). One that I removed was: net spindle-ccw <= motion.spindle-reverse the problem is that with that one gone I do not have the CCW button in AXIS any longer.
[13:00:29] <grommit> Why does this signal, with nothing connected to it, remove my ability to select CCW?
[13:01:07] <SWPadnos> because AXIS looks to see if certain things are connected in HAL, and hides controls it thinks you can't use (due to your setup not supporting those functions)
[13:01:13] <SWPadnos> so maybe leave those things connected :)
[13:01:51] <grommit> I also had net spindle-cw <= motion.spindle-forward in my hal file, but removing this seemd to have no effect.
[13:03:12] <SWPadnos> (without looking at the code) I'll bet that either SPINDLE-CW or SPINDLE-ON makes the CW button appear, but you need SPINDLE-CCW connected to get the CCW button
[13:03:23] <grommit> I see. So in wants to see motion.spindle.reverse in there even if not connected to give the CCW button?
[13:03:25] <grommit> Gotcha
[13:03:32] <SWPadnos> apparently
[13:04:05] <grommit> by the way, if I didn't say it yesterday, thanks a million!
[13:04:12] <SWPadnos> sure
[13:04:14] <cradek> is the metric wrong? is there a way the spindle reverse button is useful without motion.spindle-reverse hooked to something?
[13:04:27] <SWPadnos> yes, since the spindle speed can be negative
[13:04:51] <SWPadnos> so spindle-on and spindle-speed-out together can be used for CW or CCW rotation
[13:05:28] <SWPadnos> also, spindle-CW (only) could be used to toggle between forward and reverse
[13:05:53] <grommit> hmm, let me try that, I don't think that worked for me....
[13:06:17] <SWPadnos> no, we're talking about how to automatically tell from the HAL connections what capabilities the machine has
[13:06:29] <SWPadnos> you don't need to change anything
[13:07:28] <grommit> In axis, spindle-cw button is either on, or stop is on. I can't have spindle-cw de-selected with stop off (in order to run spindle)...
[13:08:12] <SWPadnos> yeah. I was talking about how HAL connections could be used to control the motor
[13:08:22] <grommit> oh, sorry.
[13:08:46] <SWPadnos> S2000M4 would turn on spindle-on and spindle-ccw, leaving spindle-cw off
[13:09:28] <SWPadnos> so spindle-cw could be used as a DIR line in some cases (better to combine with spindle-on for safety, but not absolutely necessary)
[13:14:10] <alex_joni> http://uploads.robcon.ro/IMG_8625.JPG
[13:14:32] <alex_joni> anyone can top that?
[13:15:28] <grommit> I am trying to set my spindle speed scale (I think that is the right term). I have a step output that drive a Homann DC-06 which converts to a 0-10VDC signal to a KBPB-125 motor controller. In the ini file, I have a SCALE setting. How does the scale setting relate to my 0-10v signal? It seems that I have very slow or very fast spindle, but not much in between...
[13:15:42] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, how big is that one?
[13:15:51] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: not that big
[13:15:57] <alex_joni> but here's a nicer one: http://uploads.robcon.ro/IMG_8622.JPG
[13:16:20] <grommit> Also, does one usually think that S1 is 1rpm and S2500 is 2500 rpm or is there a different convention?
[13:16:23] <alex_joni> both around 1MB if you asked about size
[13:16:30] <alex_joni> grommit: S1 is 1 rpm
[13:16:40] <alex_joni> s300 is 300rpm, etc
[13:17:15] <grommit> For me, S1 does nothing, and S80 goes to 2500rpm, is this a SCALE problem?
[13:17:25] <alex_joni> grommit: this is a HAL scale problem
[13:17:27] <SWPadnos> note that the output may be in RPM or in RPS, depending on which pin you have connected to the stepgen
[13:17:37] <SWPadnos> stepgen scale problem
[13:18:10] <SWPadnos> I think you said that 25 kHz should be 10V (= full speed)
[13:18:18] <SWPadnos> what's the max speed of your spindle
[13:18:20] <SWPadnos> ?
[13:18:30] <grommit> 2500rpm at 95v
[13:18:54] <grommit> It will go to 3600 rmp at 144 volts, but the mmotor nameplate says 95v. Yikes!
[13:19:14] <SWPadnos> do you have a voltmeter?
[13:19:16] <grommit> I found out by accident that I was driving it at 144v for a while
[13:19:17] <grommit> yes
[13:19:41] <grommit> I have trimmed the pot down so that it's max output is 95v
[13:19:43] <SWPadnos> ok, you can unplug the spindle for this, you just need to measure the DC-06 output
[13:19:50] <grommit> and spindle is at 2500 (according to tach I have)
[13:19:56] <grommit> ok
[13:20:10] <SWPadnos> what was the scale setting again?
[13:20:17] <SWPadnos> (or the pastebin with the ini file)
[13:20:21] <grommit> in .ini file SCALE=80.0
[13:21:03] <grommit> hang on, pastebin of ini is....
[13:21:35] <grommit> http://pastebin.com/MRmK1Yda
[13:24:00] <alex_joni> also output from halcmd show
[13:25:51] <SWPadnos> I think you want scale = 10 (25 kHz input to DC-06 / 2500 speed command at full speed)
[13:26:25] <SWPadnos> and max_velocity = 2500 if that's your spindle limit
[13:26:39] <grommit> http://pastebin.com/Q875TGHU is output of halcmd show
[13:27:46] <grommit> So, the S50 should be 50 rpm, etc?
[13:27:50] <SWPadnos> yes
[13:27:52] <grommit> the==then
[13:27:54] <grommit> ok
[13:27:58] <grommit> i'l try it
[13:28:05] <SWPadnos> who knows how linear the KB controller or the DC-06 are though
[13:28:29] <grommit> does MAX_Velocity effect it at all?
[13:28:58] <SWPadnos> sort of, it will prevent the stepgen from going over 25 kHz, even if there's an S10000 word in the G-code
[13:29:19] <SWPadnos> the DC-06 may get screwed up if the step rate is too high
[13:29:22] <SWPadnos> (maybe)
[13:37:08] <awallin_> anyone done some DIY casting/forging?
[13:37:23] <awallin_> I'm going to cnc-mill some molds for a part which will be cast in lead
[13:37:33] <mozmck2> forging, no casting yet
[13:37:38] <awallin_> I want to pre-heat the mold, maybe with resistors...
[13:37:58] <awallin_> here are pictures from 2003: http://www.anderswallin.net/2003/05/making-a-bulb/
[13:38:09] <awallin_> I wonder what resistors would be good for that
[13:38:26] <awallin_> lead melts at 320-something so it wants to be close to that
[13:38:46] <awallin_> but if the mold is aluminium we don't want it melting at 660C !
[13:38:53] <SWPadnos> solder melts a bit lower, so you may have a connection issue
[13:39:08] <awallin_> good point...
[13:39:24] <awallin_> acutally we heated the mold on a gas flame last time
[13:39:48] <awallin_> but now the idea was to use an electric kiln
[13:40:06] <mozmck2> often molds are set on top of the furnace used to melt the metal to pre-heat them
[13:40:07] <awallin_> and so maybe heat the mold also with electricity...
[13:40:52] <mozmck2> I have a stick-on heating pad or two that would probably work great...
[13:42:55] <awallin_> how many watts? and where did you get them?
[13:43:27] <mozmck2> 1500 watts at 230 volts, just stick it on the bottom of the mold. it's a round disk about 5 or 6 inches in diameter
[13:44:24] <mozmck2> I think from bgmicro.com, but I don't know if they are on his website. We go in there and rummage around.
[13:44:51] <mozmck2> you can put less voltage and get less heat of course...
[13:46:43] <awallin_> would be easiest just to plug into 230vac
[13:48:50] <awallin_> and this probably needs to be done outside, don't want to inhale too much of the lead fumes...
[13:52:21] <mozmck2> If you want one of these let me know. I have several and should be able to get more, and they only cost something like 99 cents or something.
[13:52:57] <mozmck2> ignore the redundant "or something"...
[13:54:07] <cradek> mozmck2: http://timeguy.com/cradek/01272076770
[13:54:10] <awallin_> what temp do you think the round disk itself can take?
[13:55:20] <mozmck> I don't know. from a quick search on the web it looks like similar ones can take about 232C (450F)
[13:56:15] <mozmck> cradek: heh, pretty neat!
[13:56:49] <cradek> mozmck: thanks (not very traditional)
[13:57:27] <mozmck> looks like precision tuning!
[14:05:29] <awallin_> something like this for casting: http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7446.html
[14:13:54] <herron> cradek, I too started with Yggdrasil /me just re reading blog
[14:14:36] <herron> I did a cdrom howto on compuserve for it
[14:21:11] <cradek> herron: just the other day I saw someone using a 12345,123 compuserve email address. I am surprised any are still around.
[14:21:46] <herron> I cant remember my old address
[14:22:39] <herron> I wonder if the howtos were archived anywhere
[14:42:28] <MattyMatt> awallin_ that heater you want sounds just like an electric hotplate for cooking. they are made of nichrome wire
[14:43:00] <MattyMatt> that's the resistor to use
[14:43:49] <MattyMatt> that's stuff's cheap as bare wire
[14:45:54] <MattyMatt> and you can get it bright red hot. I've seen a design for a lost wax burnout oven that does 900F
[14:47:31] <MattyMatt> the reprap people use it via PWM for accurate nozzle temps up to 250C
[14:48:32] <MattyMatt> it's ~ 1 ohm per inch usually, I think
[14:50:07] <MattyMatt> I was told that it gets brittle after its been red hot, so this flat wire in this broken toaster will be hard to recycle
[14:50:36] <MattyMatt> it's, sorry apostrophe :)
[14:53:38] <mozmck_work> MattyMatt: that's what I was just thinking of. I've used old electric dryer heater coils as well.
[14:56:32] <tom3p> SWPadnos, score! ESS in Manchester NH, 4pcs 1.50@ woohoo!
[14:56:48] <SWPadnos> yay!
[14:56:53] <SWPadnos> that's less than DK shipping :)
[14:59:47] <tom3p> bought digikey with next day anyway ( suspenders and a belt ) of into the wilds of NH
[14:59:51] <MattyMatt> I suppose if you've got a furnace, you could anneal used nichrome, but new nichrome is so cheap I doubt it's worth it
[15:01:56] <gweepprefect> tom3p: whereabouts in NH?
[15:02:12] <MattyMatt> follow him and see:)
[15:02:20] <MattyMatt> I think he's gone
[15:02:26] <gweepprefect> ah yeah, he left.. whoops
[15:02:42] <gweepprefect> my brain filters out enter/leave messages
[15:03:02] <MattyMatt> yeah, some days I want my client to
[15:03:16] <gweepprefect> i can configure my client to do that, but that's even more confusing
[15:03:17] <MattyMatt> logs full of netsplits
[15:03:39] <MattyMatt> a condensed report would do fine :)
[15:03:57] <gweepprefect> yeah, it should work like syslog and collate that stuff
[15:38:38] <grommit> After spending time with an oscilloscope, voltmeter, and EMC2, I think I have my spindle set up, but have a question. How important is it from a machining perspective to have the spindle speed accurately registering? At 2500rpm setting, I am really at 2650rpm. At 100rpm I am at 40rpm. The crossover point is about 700rpm - at that speed it is turning at 700rpm
[15:39:29] <cradek> the difference between 2500 and 2650 is unimportant. the difference between 100 and 40 is huge and might be a problem if you intend to use those kinds of speeds
[15:39:49] <grommit> when would one use those kinds of speeds?
[15:41:42] <cradek> very large tools, or very obstinate materials
[15:42:07] <grommit> well the machine is pretty small so large tools will probably be out.
[15:42:31] <grommit> what about tapping? if I get a spindle encoder, I would like to do tapping. What speeds is that typically done at?
[15:43:17] <cradek> I usually tap around 500 rpm. you can probably go up to several thousand if you have a very fast machine.
[15:43:34] <grommit> I suppose, I can just be aware of the issue and adjust any speeds I would get to fit the machine, but it is just one more thing to think about...
[15:44:37] <grommit> if I command 500rpm I gt 440
[15:45:21] <SWPadnos> grommit, check the voltage output of the DC-06
[15:45:29] <grommit> I have
[15:45:56] <SWPadnos> look at whether the commanded spindle speed is linearly related and whether the output voltage is linear with respect to the motor speed
[15:46:13] <SWPadnos> one of those may not be linear
[15:46:16] <SWPadnos> or both
[15:46:29] <skunkworks_> there is a hal componant that would allow you to make a curve..
[15:46:51] <cradek> you might find that scale/offset are enough
[15:46:54] <SWPadnos> if you have a frequency counter or your scope can measure frequency, you should also look at the stepgen output to make sure that's linear with commanded spindle speed
[15:51:29] <SWPadnos> gotta run. bbl
[16:06:11] <Dave911> skunkworks: >hal component that would allow you to make a curve.... Which one is that?
[16:06:24] <skunkworks_> heh - I was just looking for that.
[16:06:52] <skunkworks_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/man/man9/blend.9.html
[16:07:03] <skunkworks_> I thought there was one with more points though...
[16:09:24] <Dave911> I don't recall seeing the blend component in the docs.. Are there more that are not in the docs?
[16:09:39] <skunkworks_> give me a second...
[16:10:51] <Dave911> Oh... it is in the integrators manual ... I guess I missed that one..
[16:16:30] <Dave911> I guess I was hoping for a secret treasure trove of undocumented hal components ... ;-) Hey!... there are a few more hal components in there than I realized .. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/man/man9/ THC for example .. I forgot that was added ..
[16:21:14] <Jymmm> WOOHOO FOR THC!!!
[16:21:15] <Jymmm> WOOHOO FOR THC!!!
[16:21:16] <Jymmm> WOOHOO FOR THC!!!
[16:22:25] <Dave911> Yes ... I need to look at that closer
[16:22:42] <Jymmm> look at what?
[16:22:52] <Dave911> THC!
[16:23:02] <Dave911> :-)
[16:23:14] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol
[16:23:42] <Dave911> Jymmm: Not that THC! Been there, done that ... :-)
[16:24:15] <Jymmm> Dave911: <--- Nark
[16:24:27] <Dave911> Of course .... I didn't inhale though .....
[16:24:46] <Dave911> Nark ... wow I haven't heard that word in a long time :-)
[16:25:13] <Jymmm> Dave911: hey YOURE the one with '911' in your nick =)
[16:25:28] <Jymmm> Nark
[16:25:45] <Jymmm> lol
[16:25:59] <Dave911> ok... Jymmm.... please put your hands on the car and spread em .... ;-)
[16:26:14] <Jymmm> Perv Nark!
[16:26:37] <Dave911> Hey .. I thought you lived in CA where THC is legal if you have a cold, feel run down etc ...
[16:26:53] <Jymmm> wikipedia doens't have THC as Torch height control
[16:27:16] <Dave911> What the ???
[16:27:32] <Jymmm> they dont have "Torch Height Control" either
[16:27:43] <JT-Work> maybe I should have called it TTVHC
[16:28:34] <Dave911> OK .... I must be slow today ... what does TTVHC stand for?
[16:28:50] <Jymmm> Closest entry is this for THC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_cutting
[16:28:56] <JT-Work> Torch Tip Voltage Height Control
[16:29:23] <Dave911> Well you can always rename it ... ;-)
[16:29:37] <JT-Work> but then Jymmm would not get as excited every time someone brings it up here
[16:30:04] <Dave911> True ...
[16:30:09] <Dave911> JT ... you did the hal component for the GS2 drive right?
[16:30:32] <Jymmm> Hey, we have Prop 215 here now. Doens't matter though, have you seen the prices these days?! $215/oz OUCH
[16:31:03] <JT-Work> no, I just added a few things to it
[16:31:18] <JT-Work> and tested it out on a GS2 drive I had
[16:31:39] <Dave911> Oh .. ok.. I need to hack something so I can bring in RS232 stuff from a different source .... and get it into EMC2 ... is that the best place to start?
[16:32:34] <Dave911> I'm not doing modbus .. just some simple serial parsing from a repetitive stream - data comes in and doesn't go out
[16:32:35] <JT-Work> I didn't work on the RS232 part so I don't know... I think SWPadnos wrote that
[16:32:51] <Dave911> ok ...
[16:33:17] <Dave911> I can't think of anything else that gets RS232 type data into EMC2 that I can work with to get started ....
[16:35:41] <Dave911> I guess I could use Python and get it in that way though also .. we'll see.. I guess I just need to try some stuff out.. as usual, many different ways to do it ...
[16:36:10] <Dave911> JT: is the THC component working well for you?
[16:36:25] <JT-Work> so far
[16:36:52] <Dave911> Are you using a pilot arc plasma cutter or are you using a high frequency start unit?
[16:36:53] <JT-Work> I've been sidetracked lately with the Hardinge integration
[16:37:01] <JT-Work> Hypertherm 1250
[16:37:17] <JT-Work> I think it is pilot arc
[16:37:35] <Dave911> OK... I think you said that before... That has a pilot arc I think.. nice unit
[16:37:45] <Dave911> How much can you cut with that?
[16:37:50] <JT-Work> I have some stuff to cut on the plasma when I get a chance lol
[16:38:30] <JT-Work> I usually don't cut anything thicker than 1/2 or 5/8"
[16:38:46] <JT-Work> it is rated for more but the cut gets ugly...
[16:38:55] <Dave911> Have you seen any of those high def units?
[16:39:10] <JT-Work> the air dryer should help now with the cut quality
[16:39:32] <Dave911> Someone is selling a high def addon for Hypertherms I believe .. I have no idea how much they $
[16:40:04] <JT-Work> if it ain't a Hypertherm product I'd be wondering about it a lot...
[16:40:18] <Dave911> Know what you mean ....
[16:40:51] <Dave911> I have to get my plasma cutter going .. I have almost all of the parts .. frame done, rails etc.. just need more time!
[16:41:44] <Dave911> oh well thanks ... bbl
[16:42:49] <JT-Work> bbl here too
[16:50:18] <EbiDK_> EbiDK_ is now known as EbiDK
[16:59:29] <Bonny> Hello... How far away from programed path can machine move if only G64 is programed without P or Q?
[17:00:23] <Bonny> ...and what is difference betwen G61 and G61.1 ? - In machine behaviour
[17:01:01] <Bonny> As I understand in g61.1 and g61 the machine stop in every endpoint..
[17:01:34] <Bonny> The term Exact path/Stop make me confused
[17:05:22] <skunkworks_> Bonny: about all I can tell you about g64 with no p - is that it will go as fast as it can while touching every line segment. It will be related to your accelleration settings.
[17:09:31] <Bonny> I fell that G64 works faster and is more accurate than G64P0.1 (metric) At least G64 "sounds" smotther and backplot is on line. G64P0.1 Sound's more robust on corner's and backplot deviate from programmed path.
[17:10:09] <Bonny> I didn't realy cut part to measure difference.
[17:12:37] <MattyMatt> grommit, if you fit a spindle encoder, you'd regulate the speed with it anyway, wouldn't you?
[17:16:03] <sealive> hi all
[17:20:03] <EricKeller> I think just one time all 79 of us should say hi
[17:28:54] <micges> hi
[17:30:36] <micges> Bonny: G64 will always "sounds" smoother
[17:30:53] <slowfuse> hi
[17:31:15] <Poincare> hi
[17:31:34] <micges> G64 P0.1 sound worse becouse emc is trying to obey your part path
[17:32:01] <micges> G64 will run as fast as it can
[17:32:16] <sealive> 0,05will do the job
[17:32:35] <sealive> if you are on metric
[17:32:43] <micges> sealive: depends on machine
[17:33:19] <sealive> pcb milling to rouphing
[17:33:37] <sealive> wirer cut its to mutch :D
[17:33:50] <micges> here on lasers we have 0.01 or 0.02
[17:33:57] <EricKeller> is there any problem with electric motors that have been flooded?
[17:34:17] <sealive> where?
[17:34:34] <sealive> EricKeller: Cote da zur
[17:35:05] <micges> shortcuts
[17:35:06] <EricKeller> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rIMQlgcHDs
[17:35:18] <EricKeller> my mom's house is the pink one
[17:35:28] <EricKeller> full of sewing machines
[17:35:34] <EricKeller> that was after the water went down
[17:37:18] <sealive> EricKeller: nice quad
[17:37:27] <EricKeller> that's not my mom ;)
[17:38:11] <EricKeller> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIMl19nXcs shows her house better
[17:38:22] <Bonny> 0.1 is good for wood. For other I go one zerro to the right
[17:38:32] <EricKeller> one of my friends asked how much she wanted for the vw, it's not her car
[17:39:19] <sealive> german cars do lie after the flood
[17:39:30] <sealive> live
[17:39:58] <EricKeller> there was a used car dealership across the road, there were cars/trucks everywhere
[17:40:09] <EricKeller> flood stage was at roof height
[17:40:38] <sealive> no batterie no problem
[17:41:13] <EricKeller> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY75oRG5GQo This shows the remnants of the car dealership
[17:41:37] <sealive> wher is this in the USA
[17:41:57] <EricKeller> Antioch Tennessee, near Nashville
[17:42:26] <sealive> iv been in Nashvill in 1994
[17:42:43] <sealive> trevaling from NY to SF
[17:42:54] <sealive> on Route 66
[17:42:59] <sealive> interstate 40
[17:44:33] <EricKeller> it's ok, I tried to talk her out of moving there though
[17:44:50] <sealive> How
[17:45:09] <EricKeller> I said "mom, don't move there" :)
[17:45:25] <sealive> its a nice place
[17:45:37] <sealive> my aunt lives in kissamee florida
[17:45:52] <sealive> many snakes aligators and Huticanes
[17:46:02] <sealive> no way to get here back to NY
[17:46:29] <EricKeller> florida has its advantages though
[17:47:06] <sealive> its the most expensive state in the usa
[17:51:49] <sealive> ok by i got to go tomorrow i go to hospital for a little Operation see you on monday
[17:52:00] <EricKeller> good luck
[18:12:34] <frallzor> heyhey
[18:14:40] <frallzor> main .hal = what/which?
[18:18:28] <micges> frallzor: ?
[18:18:49] <SWPadnos> the ini file lists all hal files that should be loaded
[18:19:04] <SWPadnos> they are loaded in the order specified in the ini file, in the [HAL] section
[18:19:37] <frallzor> if Im told to edit the mail .hal
[18:19:44] <frallzor> which is that then?
[18:19:53] <frallzor> *main
[18:19:54] <SWPadnos> you look at the ini file and see what hal file(s) it loads
[18:20:34] <frallzor> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[18:20:48] <frallzor> this doesnt mention that any previous files should be loaded
[18:21:26] <SWPadnos> I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know what the names of your HAL files are, but your ini file does
[18:21:42] <frallzor> Im all vanilla
[18:21:49] <frallzor> havent changed anything since I installed
[18:21:53] <SWPadnos> that doesn't help
[18:22:00] <SWPadnos> every config has a different set of hal files
[18:22:22] <SWPadnos> so you are using one of about 30 that are provided by the EMC2 package, or one you made with stepconf, or whatever
[18:22:32] <frallzor> but how does one know which is the main? if there are more than 1
[18:22:42] <SWPadnos> it depends :)
[18:23:06] <micges> open in gedit ini file you're selecting in pickconfig
[18:23:24] <micges> first file in [HAL] section will be main
[18:23:36] <SWPadnos> I think stepconf creates three files, the main one (I don't recall how that will be named), a custom.hal, and a custom_postgui.hal
[18:23:37] <frallzor> ah ok
[18:23:58] <frallzor> off I go to play with this stuff then =)
[18:24:14] <frallzor> just make backups and one is all set to fail =P
[18:25:06] <micges> SWPadnos: main hal file in stepconf is named the same as machine is called
[18:25:17] <SWPadnos> ok, I thought so but wasn't sure
[18:31:25] <grommit> Well, not sure who is still around that was helping me earlier...I mapped my commanded speed to freqency, spindle rpm and ouput voltage of both my Homann DC-06 and KBPB-125 motor controller. For anyone interested the table is: http://pastebin.com/JHCrr2a6
[18:31:50] <grommit> It is not completely linear, on the other hand it is darn close until you get to the extremes.
[18:32:06] <grommit> May not be worth bothering to develop a curve for...?
[18:33:51] <SWPadnos> well, at least the stepgen is working exactly as expected :)
[18:34:07] <grommit> Yeah, tracks perfectly!
[18:34:25] <grommit> got my scale right now :-)
[18:36:29] <grommit> Thanks, once again. How many of you will be at CNC Workshop (end of June)? I need to know how many beers to bring! :-)
[18:40:39] <frallzor> editing was real simple
[18:40:46] <SWPadnos> grommit, I think the problem is in the KBPB-125. the DC-06 is very linear, the stepgen is perfectly linear
[18:40:50] <frallzor> shame it gives me a nice error though =(
[18:41:25] <grommit> Agreed. The person I was working with on this has a KBIC-125 (related) and he said his also had similar behavior.
[18:42:20] <SWPadnos> it is good from 500RPM up, and very good from 700RPM up, but it looks like low speed will be a problem no matter what you do
[18:42:27] <frallzor> doing this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant but it fails when doing step for giving me this: http://pastebin.com/afVZ0JWV
[18:42:34] <frallzor> *step 4
[18:42:35] <SWPadnos> you should also test under load
[18:43:08] <grommit> I have one trim pot on the KBPB-125, which is the MIN pot. I can get the lower end to look better, but then the high end runs too fast. I think this is as good as I am going to get...
[18:43:35] <SWPadnos> if you can make it more linear, you can change the scale to whatever you need
[18:43:43] <SWPadnos> like 9.603 or 11.223134
[18:43:53] <SWPadnos> it doesn't have to be an integer
[18:43:54] <grommit> Hmm, might be worth a try.
[18:44:49] <SWPadnos> frallzor, jump to the last paragraph on the wiki page
[18:45:11] <frallzor> ah mhm
[18:45:12] <SWPadnos> which refers you to the hal_input manpage, which will tell you how to set up the permissions on input devices
[18:45:31] <frallzor> but it does see the device, = identifies it?
[18:45:44] <frallzor> when doing step 1 that is
[18:45:52] <SWPadnos> but doesn't have permission to open the file, perhaps
[18:46:11] <frallzor> could be...
[18:46:38] <frallzor> how do to that last thing then?
[18:46:44] <SWPadnos> No input devices could be opened. This usually indicates a misconfigured
[18:46:44] <frallzor> im no linux man
[18:46:45] <SWPadnos> system. Please read the section 'PERMISSIONS AND UDEV' in the hal_input
[18:46:47] <SWPadnos> manpage
[18:47:52] <frallzor> thats all greek to me =)
[18:48:09] <SWPadnos> best to learn greek then, I think that's about as simple as it gets :)
[18:48:32] <frallzor> where is that hal whatwhat to the whatwhat page then?
[18:48:49] <SWPadnos> step 1: learn to run a terminal session, and learn the "man" command
[18:49:04] <SWPadnos> step 2: read the "man page" that the wiki directs you to
[18:49:21] <SWPadnos> step 3: attempt to understand this information, and to do what it tells you to do
[18:49:41] <SWPadnos> step 4: if you still have difficulty, ask for help on IRC or another support channel
[18:51:39] <frallzor> there isnt a direct to a man page in that description? =)
[18:52:51] <SWPadnos> man hal_input
[18:55:33] <frallzor> ill just try the last part of the description then
[19:48:23] <jimbo> SWPadnos: How did your project with the solid state drives turn out?
[19:48:50] <SWPadnos> just fine
[19:51:14] <jimbo> Mine turned out to be the bare bones computer as far as I can tell. I have had 16 of the 16 drives fail so I started to replace them with spinning drives and have had the same problem. my worst nightmare.
[19:51:30] <SWPadnos> wow. bummer
[19:51:56] <SWPadnos> I've had motherboards get toasted from voltage spikes on the USB lines, but have had no trouble with the drives so fay
[19:51:58] <SWPadnos> far
[19:53:37] <jimbo> The computer wipes the boot sector and then I have to reclone the drive and all is good for a random 3-6 month period. Sucks bad.
[19:53:51] <SWPadnos> oh. well that is a problem
[19:53:52] <frallzor> ahh Ive done this stuff before
[19:54:06] <frallzor> its like riding a bike once you figure out what is what again =)
[19:54:08] <SWPadnos> is there a "boot block protection" BIOS option?
[19:54:21] <frallzor> got the controller visible in emc now =)
[19:54:28] <jimbo> I will check there may be one.
[19:54:37] <frallzor> but for some reason it wont do what it supposed to
[19:55:08] <jimbo> So is your business doing well?
[19:55:54] <SWPadnos> well, that's a different question :)
[19:56:01] <SWPadnos> but yes, it seems to be
[19:56:15] <frallzor> alex_joni ya here? =)
[19:56:27] <alex_joni> always am
[19:56:50] <alex_joni> sometimes less than now
[19:56:58] <jimbo> Mine is real up and down. It acts like it is going to take off and then it's in the toilet.
[19:56:59] <frallzor> I saw that you made the controller-control happen =)
[19:57:09] <frallzor> as in gamepad jog
[19:57:44] <frallzor> hints on why It wont work for me? =/ got the controlled hooked up and buttons work when checking the hal-stuff in emc
[19:57:48] <frallzor> *r
[19:57:53] <frallzor> but no go
[19:57:54] <SWPadnos> well yes, there is a lot of up and down, especially when you're a one-man show (or close to that)
[19:59:12] <jimbo> For mine it is just myself and a helper (need someone to do the attic crawlspace crawls).
[20:01:47] <grommit> I did play with my trim pots and my scale and I have a very linear speed from 25rpm up to 3000rpm. I am overdriving my brushed DC motor a bit, 109v vs 95v (faceplate) but according to our local motor expert that is no big deal....
[20:01:47] <frallzor> any hints on why It just wont work for me alex_joni? all hal-files setup as the wiki says, permission added abut no go at all besides hal showing life when watching pins
[20:04:30] <SWPadnos> frallzor, estop reset and machine on?
[20:04:37] <skunkworks_> jimbo: did you find your stopping issue?
[20:04:39] <frallzor> yes
[20:04:44] <frallzor> old way of jogging works
[20:04:48] <frallzor> by keyboard
[20:05:13] <SWPadnos> ok, can you post the output from "halcmd show all" on pastebin?
[20:05:41] <alex_joni> what SWPadnos said
[20:05:53] <frallzor> when looking at pins via hal config they respond at least
[20:06:10] <frallzor> evey single button and "joystick"
[20:06:15] <SWPadnos> so it's most likely a typo or something in the configuration
[20:06:21] <SWPadnos> hal connections, etc
[20:06:21] <jimbo> Yea. A ferrite core with the usb cable run thru it 3 times. Life is good.
[20:06:27] <frallzor> doublechecked
[20:06:31] <frallzor> no errors
[20:06:36] <frallzor> thats why im baffled =)
[20:06:39] <SWPadnos> halcmd show
[20:07:01] <frallzor> more than that I can do? emc comp not here
[20:07:16] <frallzor> might aswell give me some more things to try when im out there
[20:07:22] <frallzor> if there are more
[20:07:31] <SWPadnos> well, the ini file, all the hal files, and the output from halcmd show all should do it
[20:07:38] <SWPadnos> there isn't much more you could do :)
[20:07:40] <frallzor> rgr =)
[20:08:00] <jimbo> Skunkworks: I was getting random Char from my keyboard emulator.
[20:08:46] <grommit> frallzor: do you have a file called: /etc/udev/rules.d/51-plugdev.rules wich has in it: # SUBSYSTEM=="input", mode="0660", group="plugdev"
[20:08:47] <jimbo> Thanks for asking.
[20:08:47] <skunkworks_> yeck :)
[20:09:04] <frallzor> grommit I do now, the lack of that caused my first error
[20:09:45] <frallzor> off I go to collect some data
[20:10:21] <grommit> what is the current error? just not moving the right things for the right keys?
[20:11:08] <jimbo> It appears that the keyboard emulator cheaped out on the RFI elimination.
[20:16:15] <grommit> frallzor: not sure what your problem is but in case it helps I was having a problems following the various online info for getting a joypad to work and got this postgui.hal file from a friend and it just worked. http://pastebin.com/2uVmzPAX
[20:19:52] <frallzor> tried doing halcmd but got a nice little error
[20:20:14] <frallzor> halccnc@cnc:~$ halcmd show all
[20:20:14] <frallzor> RTAPI: ERROR: version mismatch 0 vs 533
[20:20:14] <frallzor> HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed
[20:20:14] <frallzor> halcmd: hal_init() failed: -9
[20:20:14] <frallzor> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[20:20:21] <grommit> axis has to be running
[20:20:21] <alex_joni> wrong halcmd
[20:20:40] <frallzor> which is the correct then?
[20:20:48] <alex_joni> halcmd without a path or a source line uses the installed one
[20:21:01] <alex_joni> but you seem to be running emc2 from a run-in-place setup
[20:21:06] <frallzor> yes
[20:21:12] <frallzor> live-cd install
[20:21:15] <alex_joni> go to the dir where you start emc
[20:21:28] <alex_joni> . scripts/emc-environment
[20:21:34] <alex_joni> then halcmd show
[20:21:53] <frallzor> type that scripts stuff in terminal?
[20:24:30] <jimbo> OK next dumb question. I am using a pokeys55 for both keyboard input a game pad emulation. All is good on that front. I am using hal_input for the reading of the game pad. All is good. What i am having trouble with is the LED output that hal_input supports. I do not see any LED's when I set the pins of the pokeys55 to output.
[20:25:54] <grommit> by the way, the error output you posted is also what you get when you run a halcmd without emc running...
[20:27:24] <alex_joni> grommit: I doubt you get the version mismatch line
[20:45:32] <frallzor> couldnt get it going
[20:46:59] <frallzor> grommit no =)
[20:47:09] <frallzor> I got that when doing it wrong with emc running =P
[20:47:27] <frallzor> but no better when trying it the right way
[20:47:49] <frallzor> but anyhow, it should work... =/
[20:53:55] <frallzor> this is really frustrating :P
[20:54:13] <frallzor> but no more trial and error today, happytime now =)
[20:56:10] <frallzor> alex_joni does it matter im using the dev-version btw?
[20:59:59] <jimbo> I had some trouble with 2.4.0 dev version using button commands from my joypad and with commands from PYVCP. Everything was OK on 2.3.0.
[21:01:48] <frallzor> what kind of trouble?
[21:02:21] <frallzor> I see the buttons working in hal config but no go
[21:02:47] <jimbo> Same problem that I was having.
[21:03:14] <jimbo> Try the release version and see if things are working.
[21:04:21] <frallzor> good thing I got a new usbstick then so I can reinstall it all then
[21:04:51] <jimbo> are you on 2.4.0 or 2.5.0?
[21:05:17] <frallzor> hmm
[21:05:24] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[21:05:29] <frallzor> 2.4.0 i reckon
[21:06:15] <jimbo> help about. Then update to the latest 2.4.0 as I think it was fixed in it.
[21:07:00] <frallzor> just get the updated ubuntu shoves in my face?
[21:07:03] <frallzor> *updates
[21:08:21] <jimbo> I have both 2.3.0 and 2.5.0 installed. I can run either with a simple change in a shell script.
[21:08:57] <frallzor> hmm
[21:09:05] <frallzor> I think I have 2.3.0 left
[21:09:32] <frallzor> I have slight memory of having issues getting 2.4.0 running and got help making it run 100% of the time
[21:11:58] <alex_joni> 2.4.0 hasn't been released yet
[21:12:14] <alex_joni> 2.5 is the next devel version, so not something you would use in production
[21:12:19] <alex_joni> and the latest 2.3 is 2.3.5
[21:12:31] <jimbo> I am having problems with 2.5.0 as well If I turn emc off with the power button I start receiving an error on one of my axis. The only way to stop it is to restart axis.
[21:12:52] <alex_joni> what error, what axis, how is it driven, etc
[21:12:59] <frallzor> guess Ill try and get 2.3.0 back then
[21:13:02] <alex_joni> jimbo: only a complete report is usefull..
[21:13:13] <alex_joni> frallzor: what are you trying to do?
[21:13:30] <frallzor> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant this
[21:13:45] <alex_joni> did you pastebin the output from halcmd show?
[21:14:00] <frallzor> couldnt get it running
[21:14:05] <frallzor> for some reason
[21:14:08] <frallzor> same error as before
[21:14:21] <frallzor> rtapi blabla
[21:14:23] <alex_joni> how do you run em?
[21:14:25] <alex_joni> emc?
[21:14:32] <jimbo> I have have not had the time to report.
[21:14:40] <frallzor> just a shortcut on the desktop
[21:14:51] <alex_joni> how did the shortcut end there?
[21:15:20] <alex_joni> frallzor: start emc (or if it's started fine), check what the title of the AXIS window says..
[21:15:23] <alex_joni> emc2 version..
[21:15:31] <andypugh> The shortcut might well point at the wrong script
[21:15:32] <frallzor> well its a dev-version
[21:15:42] <frallzor> pretty sure its 2.4.0
[21:15:50] <andypugh> run-in-place?
[21:15:58] <alex_joni> pretty sure is useless
[21:16:05] <frallzor> run in place updated for touchy
[21:16:11] <andypugh> Have you done . ./emc2-dev/scipts/emc-environment ?
[21:16:21] <frallzor> yup
[21:16:32] <frallzor> same error as I had before complaining about rtapi
[21:16:36] <andypugh> What happens if you type "emc" at the command line?
[21:16:50] <frallzor> no idea
[21:17:09] <alex_joni> andypugh: sounds like frallzor doesn't really want help/follow some simple instructions
[21:17:19] <alex_joni> sorry, but it just feels like that to me
[21:17:33] <frallzor> well its hard to follow when the computer is in different building =)
[21:17:36] <frallzor> *a
[21:17:51] <andypugh> VNC?
[21:17:59] <frallzor> no network to it
[21:18:03] <andypugh> Ah.
[21:18:08] <alex_joni> step 1: get it online
[21:18:12] <frallzor> thats why im running back and forth
[21:18:37] <andypugh> I have been developing/compiling in a machine in the garage, from the living room. I don't think it is the ideal way to do it, to be honest.
[21:18:39] <alex_joni> frallzor: what folder is emc2 in?
[21:18:42] <alex_joni> the dev version
[21:19:13] <alex_joni> you can check by looking at the shortcut
[21:19:27] <alex_joni> right click, then follow properties etc to check where it points to
[21:19:39] <frallzor> more to check when im out there?
[21:19:39] <alex_joni> it should be /path/to/whatever/scripts/emc
[21:19:52] <alex_joni> you care about the /path/to/whatever/
[21:20:11] <alex_joni> once emc2 is started (config picked), you then go to /path/to/whatever
[21:20:20] <alex_joni> and run the ". scripts/emc-environment"
[21:20:30] <alex_joni> that is a DOT there, then space, etc.
[21:20:43] <alex_joni> that should complete without problems
[21:20:51] <alex_joni> or messages or whatever
[21:21:07] <alex_joni> then you can run "halcmd" and you get the same version as the one already running
[21:21:19] <alex_joni> halcmd show > file.foo
[21:21:26] <alex_joni> put that on an usb stick, and pastebin it
[21:21:34] <frallzor> but still, if its useless using a dev-version maybe I should just get a proper one going first?
[21:22:16] <andypugh> I have been using a dev for some time. Though now you mention it I am not sure mine is working any more.
[21:22:21] <alex_joni> if it's pre~2.4
[21:22:32] <alex_joni> then it's ok, that's quite close to 2.4.0
[21:22:49] <alex_joni> once it's released (probably this or next week) you can switch
[21:23:32] <frallzor> <alex_joni> once emc2 is started (config picked), you then go to /path/to/whatever via terminal right?
[21:25:08] <alex_joni> right
[21:25:19] <alex_joni> start terminal, cd ....
[21:25:40] <frallzor> pretty sure I did like that and got path doesnt excist blabla
[21:25:51] <frallzor> but it was all there like it should
[21:25:53] <alex_joni> repeat from step 1 until you get it right
[21:25:59] <frallzor> ok, brb then
[21:26:03] <alex_joni> check the name of the folder you used
[21:26:11] <alex_joni> I think andypugh suggested emc2-dev
[21:26:19] <alex_joni> but you might have used a different name
[21:26:29] <alex_joni> check the shortcut for the exact name
[21:28:46] <andypugh> Woohoo! my home made Resolver - AC servo controller is working.
[21:29:06] <alex_joni> cool
[21:30:10] <andypugh> It isn't working all that well, but then there is an awful lot to get right by guesswork, like the correct resolver positions to switch the high-side and low-side driver configs.
[21:32:02] <andypugh> I have just changed it to give more "lead angle" to see what that does.
[21:33:31] <andypugh> OK, that was the wrong way....
[21:33:35] <jimbo> Alex_joni: the error is exceeds positive limit on joint -1072160074. The first time
[21:33:37] <jimbo> The second time: exceeds positive soft limit on joint 2097158
[21:33:38] <jimbo> How I get there: home all three axis. Run small program. stop or let finish. use the pgup command to home the Z axis. Power off machine. error will keep scrolling until I stop axis.
[21:33:40] <jimbo> 2.5.0, mesa 5i20 with 7i33. Closed loop velocity servo system on bridgeport.
[21:33:41] <jimbo> Jim
[21:39:23] <frallzor> now It worked fine
[21:39:29] <frallzor> without a typo =)
[21:40:10] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/baa6qJG7 the output
[21:46:55] <frallzor> I see the buttons for the pad there atleast
[21:57:58] <pfred1> oh I got 3 views on the video I uploaded last nite!
[22:01:16] <alex_joni> frallzor: looks ok
[22:01:24] <frallzor> my thought too
[22:01:24] <alex_joni> are you in manual mode when you try to jog?
[22:01:28] <frallzor> yup
[22:01:37] <frallzor> old way with keyboard works
[22:02:12] <frallzor> and its the exact same gamepad as used in the wiki
[22:03:27] <alex_joni> try running emc from the terminal, and check if any error appears
[22:03:39] <alex_joni> also try another halcmd show with the stick tilted
[22:03:46] <frallzor> will save that for tomorrow, too late to be running about now
[22:05:18] <alex_joni> ok
[22:05:30] <andypugh> frallzor: You need to put it in Analog mode. Is the LED on?
[22:05:37] <frallzor> the values for the joystick are 1 and -1 btw in the ends
[22:05:50] <pfred1> hey does anyone want to see a video I uploaded of my motor driver being run with stepconf?
[22:05:59] <andypugh> I have been baffled by mine not working when I forget to put it in Analog
[22:06:38] <frallzor> tried it all both analog and not
[22:07:00] <andypugh> Next thing with my motor controller is Serious Volts. Currently it is running on 30V, it is meant to be 300
[22:07:23] <andypugh> I am hoping it might go faster at a higher voltage.
[22:07:33] <pfred1> andypugh hey you're running?
[22:07:58] <andypugh> Yes, it is whirring away upstairs now
[22:08:04] <frallzor> but this is "to be continued" tomorrow =)
[22:08:33] <pfred1> andypugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbeyNNBZ68
[22:09:53] <frallzor> andypugh does it matter when you set it to analog btw?
[22:10:16] <frallzor> as in, needed before starting emc etc etc?
[22:10:20] <pfred1> frallzor does what matter?
[22:10:39] <pfred1> frallzor define "it"
[22:10:55] <frallzor> look up
[22:11:28] <pfred1> 17:56 -!- Irssi: Join to #emc was synced in 0 secs
[22:12:27] <frallzor> gamepad as pendant
[22:13:59] <pfred1> now i need a better video camera than my crappy camera
[22:15:11] <pfred1> frallzor so hows that working for you?
[22:15:22] <frallzor> not at all atm
[22:15:52] <pfred1> frallzor does the controller work for other things?
[22:16:00] <pfred1> frallzor like say a game?
[22:16:14] <frallzor> dont know
[22:16:27] <pfred1> frallzor if it was me I'd want to know
[22:16:45] <frallzor> it responds in windows aswell as in linux
[22:17:02] <pfred1> frallzor typically I will go from simple to more complex making leaps doesn't always work out
[22:18:50] <pfred1> frallzor I think i hooked up a joystick in Linux once and i had to run some kind of a driver in order for it to work
[22:19:11] <frallzor> its not needed
[22:19:31] <pfred1> frallzor well that was many years ago now I suppose things have changed some
[22:20:01] <frallzor> it responds to use, ergo it should work =)
[22:20:05] <pfred1> frallzor but I still don't see how operating a peripheral device does not require a driver
[22:20:37] <andypugh> No, you can press the button at any time.
[22:20:54] <frallzor> ill play with it more tomorrow then
[22:21:01] <andypugh> You do need a driver of sorts, hal_input....
[22:21:14] <frallzor> try adding the buttons for setting speed and such too
[22:21:20] <frallzor> using the simple method atm
[22:21:33] <frallzor> might have more luck with the more advanced
[22:22:07] <pfred1> frallzor hey it took me like 6 tries to get my drawing pad to work the way I wanted it to
[22:22:39] <frallzor> this is in the wiki so it should work in its current state
[22:22:46] <frallzor> but for some reason, nope =)
[22:23:03] <pfred1> frallzor that was following 6 different sets of directions off the net all of which were wrong in one way or another
[22:23:49] <pfred1> well 5 different sets by the time the 6th rolled around I did it my way
[22:25:14] <frallzor> oh well. 1.24 am here so time for ze bed! NN
[22:26:14] <pfred1> is it a USB joystick they're using?
[22:26:53] <MattyMatt> what othe rkind is there these days?
[22:27:08] <alex_joni> bluetooth
[22:27:12] <pfred1> MattyMatt the only joysticks I have all plug into midi ports
[22:27:43] <pfred1> I even got one of them wingman warrior extremes after that I sorts gave up on the genre here
[22:28:01] <pfred1> but its one bad assed joystick lemme tell ya!
[22:28:29] <pfred1> if the game don't work out you could kill someone with the thing I swear
[22:28:57] <MattyMatt> I've got a Wingman Force 3D here. I can't tell if the motors are working
[22:29:16] <pfred1> MattyMatt thats a bit after my time
[22:29:51] <MattyMatt> and a Saitek X-52 that bro left here :) so many buttons
[22:30:04] <Valen> sidewinder 3d pro, best joystick ever
[22:30:05] <pfred1> * pfred1 faded from the gaming world around when Quake 2 came out ...
[22:30:18] <pfred1> Valen I have one of those too
[22:30:22] <MattyMatt> Valen, Force Feedback?
[22:30:27] <Valen> nah
[22:30:42] <Valen> but its all optically based so its damn close to perfect
[22:30:50] <pfred1> Valen it only completely worked for me running Microsoft games
[22:30:56] <MattyMatt> I can't undersatand why FF isn't more popular
[22:31:19] <Valen> my biggest problem is it was incompatible with a diamond monster audio card
[22:31:28] <MattyMatt> M$ & logitech did a couple each, and a wheel each
[22:32:20] <pfred1> Valen the Sidewinder was wild in Flight Simulator and oh what was that other game it worked really good in was it Fury?
[22:32:57] <MattyMatt> I was desperate for one of these sticks a few years ago, for a game lib, so the games would naturally support it
[22:33:33] <pfred1> the joystick i have that always seemed to just work in every game was a Gravis
[22:33:47] <pfred1> it was real basic but it always just worked
[22:33:49] <MattyMatt> when I say desperate, I didn't hold up a games store :)
[22:35:07] <pfred1> MattyMatt heres my idea of a joystick today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU2GaSMPxNI
[22:35:16] <MattyMatt> gameport joysticks were all terrible IMO. I'm very happy about the HID spec
[22:36:10] <MattyMatt> :)
[22:36:35] <MattyMatt> I'm sure a jogwheel with indents would be more useful
[22:36:59] <pfred1> MattyMatt not for what I was doing
[22:37:23] <pfred1> which was about 2,500 RPM
[22:38:01] <MattyMatt> what volts?
[22:38:04] <pfred1> 24
[22:38:33] <MattyMatt> that's what I should try before new motors
[22:38:48] <Valen> heh fury, its been a while
[22:39:03] <pfred1> Valen good 16 years or so now
[22:39:42] <pfred1> a little while ago when I wanted to test out my port buffer I dusted off an old computer here and played some Doom on it
[22:41:55] <pfred1> MattyMatt higher volts should net you some more torque at higher speeds
[22:42:53] <MattyMatt> just higher speed with any torque would do :) I get a consistent 200rpm limit with various loads
[22:43:05] <pfred1> MattyMatt full step?
[22:43:17] <MattyMatt> 1/2 step atm
[22:43:25] <pfred1> hmm half should be OK
[22:43:39] <MattyMatt> I'm not worried atm
[22:43:47] <pfred1> full i seem to hit a brick wall myself somewheres around 240 RPMs
[22:44:05] <pfred1> motors just seem to want to resonate out there on me
[22:44:36] <pfred1> but at half I can run reasonable speeds
[22:45:00] <pfred1> MattyMatt you have TB6560 driver too right?
[22:45:36] <MattyMatt> when I'm spending half my life waiting for it to finish, speed will become more important :)
[22:45:55] <MattyMatt> yeah TB6560 here
[22:46:23] <pfred1> MattyMatt I run 100% torque 100% decay in 2W1-2
[22:47:00] <MattyMatt> I've got Fast decay, which is obviously dead wrong now I know what it means
[22:47:11] <pfred1> the comp I'm using just can't output the pulses for 4W1-2
[22:47:54] <pfred1> I think i top out at like .9 IPM trying to run in 4w
[22:48:36] <pfred1> but in 2W I can hit 2.8 IPM
[22:48:47] <pfred1> well IP/S
[22:49:14] <MattyMatt> I don't have 1/4 steps
[22:49:18] <pfred1> which I figure is about 833 RPM
[22:49:34] <pfred1> its 8th stepping best as I can figure it
[22:49:50] <MattyMatt> 1 have 1,2,8 & 16
[22:49:59] <pfred1> yeah run in 8th
[22:50:28] <pfred1> I don't think the decay really works cept in the W modes
[22:51:30] <pfred1> maybe it does but it seems to work a lot better to me in the W modes
[22:51:52] <MattyMatt> like I say, it's not a priority :p I spoke to the original writer of blender today, and he says he's 6 months behind in what the py api is doing :)
[22:52:21] <MattyMatt> and suggested I do what I'm doing in C
[22:53:32] <pfred1> always a safe suggestions
[22:54:05] <MattyMatt> blender builds quite easily these days allegedly
[22:54:23] <MattyMatt> python scons.py
[22:54:24] <pfred1> it boult good like 10 years ago when I tried it too
[22:55:55] <MattyMatt> I suppose it must have for me, because its the only way it could have got on that linux box
[22:56:23] <pfred1> I think back when I ran it that was the only platform it supported
[22:56:51] <MattyMatt> I had 2.28 on windows too, that was 10 years ago
[22:57:21] <pfred1> this was when it first got released so maybe it was longer ago I can't remember i didn't mark it on a calander or anything here
[22:57:40] <pfred1> seems like about 10 years now
[22:57:48] <MattyMatt> I think my bad memories are of trying to get it in an IDE :)
[22:58:29] <pfred1> back then i was big for running whatever new I heard about
[22:58:43] <pfred1> I ran KDE version .4 too
[22:58:52] <MattyMatt> most likely RHIDE which was great in DOS, sadly not so great in Linux
[22:58:57] <pfred1> I got sucked in by all the hype
[22:59:42] <pfred1> IDEs aren't so big on UNIXish platforms being as UNIXish platforms are IDEs in and of themselves
[22:59:42] <MattyMatt> DOS rhide is still the only gdb frontend that works as nice as VS
[22:59:58] <MattyMatt> that I've seen
[23:00:12] <pfred1> ever tried ddd ?
[23:00:30] <MattyMatt> on windows, a long time ago
[23:00:45] <pfred1> it was pretty cool even a long time ago
[23:01:21] <pfred1> I never knew it was even ported
[23:01:38] <MattyMatt> not successfully obviously :)
[23:01:58] <pfred1> well then i guess you haven't really tried it yet
[23:02:03] <MattyMatt> I've tried Insight at various times on various systems
[23:02:33] <pfred1> ddd is da bomb on Linux
[23:02:39] <MattyMatt> none of it has ever Just Worked. rhide 1.4 did
[23:03:22] <MattyMatt> rhide was turbo gcc :)
[23:04:22] <pfred1> if you know your switches gcc is turbo enough
[23:04:43] <pfred1> or I should say as turbo as you're going to get
[23:05:04] <MrSunshine_> what is ddd?
[23:05:13] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ debugging IDE
[23:05:15] <MattyMatt> I like the whole "press one button to compile, run, crash, move cursor to line that crashed" IDE thing
[23:05:23] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ dada display debugger
[23:05:23] <SWPadnos> Data Display Debugger, a front end for GDB
[23:05:33] <pfred1> SWPadnos you know what it is
[23:05:45] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:05:50] <MrSunshine_> real men use just gdb
[23:05:51] <MrSunshine_> :P
[23:05:59] <pfred1> SWPadnos first time i ran it I had to double check I was in Linux
[23:06:02] <SWPadnos> real men don't need gdb :)
[23:06:17] <MrSunshine_> real men write everything in pure binary code
[23:06:30] <MattyMatt> and it works every time
[23:06:35] <MrSunshine_> aye
[23:06:56] <pfred1> its too bad real men don't use computers
[23:07:04] <MrSunshine_> aye :/
[23:07:11] <SWPadnos> http://xkcd.com/378/
[23:07:13] <EricKeller> punch tape
[23:07:27] <MrSunshine_> EricKeller, even that is to geeky for real men :P
[23:07:42] <MattyMatt> punch tape on edible paper
[23:08:14] <MattyMatt> by 5pm you'll be feeling to ill to make any more errors that day
[23:08:21] <EricKeller> punch tape through mind control /xkcd
[23:08:26] <pfred1> lets see whats going on at the circus today: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/
[23:08:45] <pfred1> see what all of the clowns are up to
[23:09:09] <EricKeller> pfred1: you posted :)
[23:09:19] <pfred1> EricKeller no I troll
[23:11:37] <EricKeller> first post in emc, tempted to answer htfdik
[23:12:07] <EricKeller> how come htfwik isn't a common internet abbreviation?
[23:12:32] <pfred1> what can you say to a post like this? "I want to make sure I am doing things correctly. ... I'm planning on using MeshCAM and then Mach3."
[23:12:39] <pfred1> booo!
[23:23:19] <MattyMatt> 3 days I've been struggling w this blender script
[23:23:52] <MattyMatt> I'm wondering if I'm "doing things properly"
[23:25:18] <MattyMatt> I'll give it a rest tomorrow and build HeeksCNC again instead
[23:26:56] <cradek> haha "has been stored indoors on a trailer"
[23:32:16] <skunkworks> cradek: ?
[23:38:48] <Valen> </random>?