#emc | Logs for 2010-04-15

[00:00:03] <flexxxv_> yeah good idea but expensiv...
[00:00:09] <flexxxv_> these green 30x30 are too small right?
[00:01:07] <andypugh> If it was my machine I think they would be the double-width ones. But I might go with 45x45 verticals.
[00:02:12] <flexxxv_> ok. The real problem eith this project is the money :P
[00:02:21] <andypugh> Indeed.
[00:03:25] <andypugh> Looking at it, you will need the links between the Y slide and the X uprights to be slotted brackets as shown, there is no chance that the spacing between the X-slides will be exactly right.
[00:03:31] <pfred1> I'll say this its different
[00:06:12] <flexxxv_> I think you are right. It is better to be a little bit flexible
[00:06:27] <pfred1> flexxxv_ have you looked at this machine's design yet? http://www.mechmate.com/
[00:06:38] <andypugh> I prefer "adjustable" in this context.
[00:06:43] <flexxxv_> i forgot
[00:07:58] <flexxxv_> yeah adjustable is better :D. nice machine :D
[00:08:05] <pfred1> flexxxv_ I could see a blend of how they do it with your frame making some more mechanical sense
[00:08:24] <andypugh> The mechmate is a good machine, but has a proportionally small Z travel compared to flexxxv_ machine
[00:08:38] <pfred1> andypugh yeah just raise up the X
[00:09:13] <flexxxv_> yes, ok I have to sleep. I will fix the mchine tomorrow and ask the company for a good price :D
[00:09:31] <flexxxv_> (for the alu profiles)
[00:09:57] <pfred1> andypugh his Z is going to come down off that gantry anyways so I don't see what he's gaining by having them leads mid way
[00:10:33] <andypugh> No, I was wondering where the leadscrews should go.
[00:10:50] <pfred1> pushing closer is always better I think
[00:10:52] <flexxxv_> thanks at all for helping me. I sleep no :D
[00:10:56] <flexxxv_> now
[00:11:15] <andypugh> I think they would be best at the average cutting height, actually, where the loads on the top and bottom slides will be equalised
[00:11:19] <pfred1> pushing from further away you risk racking
[00:12:08] <pfred1> do it right and I don't see why you'd even need those bottom linears
[00:13:03] <pfred1> I've an idea for a machine with a frame like this one but completely different axises
[00:13:17] <andypugh> So have I, now :-)
[00:13:42] <pfred1> well I've had my idea for a while now and I wouldn't go for this kind of height as i don't need it
[00:14:38] <pfred1> but I think this guy just about got it on his X axis http://www.joescnc.com/themachines-hybrid.php
[00:14:48] <pfred1> just raise that X axis up overhead
[00:15:00] <andypugh> Hmm, move the slides back together, but up to the top. Then stagger them in the direction of travel, and have an extended carriage....
[00:15:46] <andypugh> (I want to have the slide units a long way apart in the X-direction.)
[00:16:07] <pfred1> joes all have widely spread X's
[00:16:39] <andypugh> Actually, putting them end-to-end would work. Then a long carriage, with each slide keeping to its own track.
[00:17:34] <pfred1> I just don't like how he has the risers coming up off the X
[00:17:53] <pfred1> http://www.joescnc.com/gallery/albums/Joe%27s%20Hybrid%20Machines/KeeWay.jpg
[00:18:12] <pfred1> and I'd lay my Y down like the X too
[00:18:34] <morficmobile> Dave911: have a few questions when you got time
[00:18:40] <andypugh> Well, I think to an extent it makes sense to have the leadscrews and slides in the plane of cutting, where the forces originate
[00:18:53] <pfred1> Dave911: who is your daddy, and what does he do?
[00:19:37] <pfred1> andypugh but then you're transferring those forces up and down
[00:19:59] <andypugh> I hope flexx doesn't order yet, this thing needs more thought.
[00:20:01] <pfred1> I am not seeing what it gains you
[00:20:15] <pfred1> push the damned gantry!
[00:20:38] <andypugh> No, you push the tool, through the medium of the gantry.
[00:21:06] <pfred1> look rube the gantry moves the tool has to move with it
[00:21:30] <pfred1> I'm just not seeing how having risers helps any
[00:22:00] <andypugh> With Joe's design the tool can't exert any torque on the slideways, preventing racking.
[00:22:01] <pfred1> its just throwing more parts in there
[00:22:27] <pfred1> he has two leads so he has live fulcrums
[00:22:50] <pfred1> the lead is right on each end point
[00:22:53] <andypugh> "live fulcrums"?
[00:23:24] <pfred1> sure a thread is just a lever in the round
[00:23:59] <andypugh> Yeah, I can't deny that, i wrote it in a FAQ 20 years ago.
[00:24:12] <pfred1> sorry i missed reading it
[00:24:34] <andypugh> Just a list of ways to get damaged bolts out of cars and bikes.
[00:24:49] <pfred1> easy outs aren't?
[00:24:56] <andypugh> God no!
[00:24:58] <pfred1> easy outs aren't easy even?
[00:25:04] <toastydeath> ramp
[00:25:10] <morficmobile> pfred1: a thread reminds me more of a "Schiefe Ebene" slanted plane, wrapped around a stick
[00:25:22] <morficmobile> ramp, that's the english word i could not think of using instead
[00:25:38] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/fastners.faq
[00:25:42] <toastydeath> leadscrews are ramps or wedges
[00:25:45] <toastydeath> not levers
[00:25:45] <pfred1> morficmobile yes but there is leverage in the axis
[00:25:59] <andypugh> "A wedge wrapped round a cylinder"
[00:26:22] <pfred1> toastydeath if there wasn't some mechanical advantage going on there is no way you could jack with a screw
[00:26:31] <toastydeath> a wedge is one of the simple machines.
[00:26:37] <toastydeath> so yes, there's mechanical advantage
[00:26:59] <toastydeath> but you might as well call it a pulley if you're going to call it a lever
[00:27:13] <pfred1> pulleys are levers
[00:27:50] <toastydeath> if you define any simple machine as a lever to make your argument that a leadscrew is a lever, then you've just completely trashed any usefulness the word has
[00:28:02] <andypugh> Anyway, I don't think we are going to agree on the best possible design for a machine tool tonight, so I am going to bed.
[00:28:10] <morficmobile> in all torque math, there is a lever, be it imaginary or real
[00:28:14] <pfred1> toastydeath but i called it a fulcrum
[00:28:18] <morficmobile> 'night andypugh
[00:29:04] <pfred1> 20:22 < andypugh> "live fulcrums"?
[00:29:05] <toastydeath> torque is not part of the operation of a lever
[00:29:24] <toastydeath> it is only part of the operation of a leadscrew because the wedge is now wrapped around a shaft
[00:29:41] <toastydeath> the mechanical advantage is in linear movement
[00:29:45] <pfred1> you can take anything out of context and make a mockery of it
[00:29:50] <toastydeath> *lever = wedge
[00:29:56] <toastydeath> sorry, i didn't mean to say levers have no torque
[00:30:12] <toastydeath> it's not out of context, i just tried to make the simple correction that it's not a lever
[00:30:49] <pfred1> toastydeath point taken but in the context of the earlier discussion the lead acts like a fulcrum to the gantry
[00:31:21] <toastydeath> oh, sorry, i didn't see the rest of the conversation, just the screw part
[00:31:28] <toastydeath> my apologies
[00:33:11] <pfred1> and to think when archimedes invented the screw all he was thinking about was pumping water
[00:34:30] <pfred1> I love this one i want to make one someday just to see it work: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/physics/demo-images/2-Fluid%20Mechanics/2B60-1_1_archimedes_screw.jpg
[00:35:55] <morficmobile> * morficmobile would love to see why Vericut thinks this A24 boring bar with a Dmin won't fit into a 2.280 bore when none of the moves go below X2.180
[00:36:05] <morficmobile> Dmin of 1.76"*
[00:46:52] <morficmobile> ugh, he used an angle of 120deg. on a HTS drill (consider it 180deg.) and "no animation" was hiding the slug that left and my tools "crashed into"
[00:53:24] <morficmobile> you know, considering wants to build his own machine down the road, i should pay attention to the small machines y'all build and just multiply the sizes, still using the same considerations though
[00:53:42] <Valen> morficmobile how goes the conversion?
[00:54:13] <pfred1> morficmobile most designs don't scale
[00:55:36] <morficmobile> Valen: it's not a conversion yet, but boss chose EMC2 as control now, from here on out our profit sharing will go into this budget, once it's finalized
[00:56:37] <morficmobile> still no set prices and drives, but he liked idea of new drives/servos, since we can bench test those w/o disturbing the machine, less downtime
[00:57:03] <morficmobile> you know, flap masking tap forward and backward and all that
[00:57:26] <pfred1> morficmobile it is fun to do
[00:57:46] <pfred1> morficmobile and many a horror tale is told of tuning on machines!
[01:05:48] <morficmobile> we were talking about maybe beefing up some of the weaker machines, boss said we might need to get a remote, i told him that should not be a problem to hit start from outside the building :P
[01:06:30] <morficmobile> what is going to kill me is actually sitting there doing nothing until budget is made, funded and parts ordered
[01:07:00] <pfred1> nah what kills you is when parts are ordered and you have to wait for them
[01:07:28] <morficmobile> or when they come in but you are off shift and can't do anything with them?
[01:21:05] <Valen> I'd suggest getting a few bits and bobs togther, mainly just the PC, so you can get it all installed and running sims
[01:21:21] <Valen> you can start working out the changes in your toolchain then
[01:22:13] <Valen> you are probably pretty confident on the hardware side of things
[01:27:55] <pfred1> I wonder if there's a support group I can join for people with a tool addiction?
[01:28:28] <Valen> #emc
[01:28:52] <pfred1> I bought this crappy pair of pliers today even when I knew i didn't need a pair of pliers i just felt so compelled
[01:30:18] <pfred1> but there they were in this case flat box in a thrift store for 50 cents and i had to bring them home to clean them up
[01:30:34] <pfred1> I'm telling you I have a serious problem!
[01:30:59] <pfred1> I picked up and put the things down like 3 times but I couldn't resist!
[01:31:18] <pfred1> I kept telling myself you do NOT need another pair of pliers
[01:31:34] <pfred1> you must have 6 pair almost identical to this one
[01:34:23] <pfred1> hey at least i resisted the Dunlap level because it was 2" too long
[01:35:20] <pfred1> if it was a Stanley sweetheart it'd be here with me now!
[01:38:30] <pfred1> I bought 2 air chucks too because the last ones i bought are a PIA to plug into
[01:39:15] <morficmobile> Valen: i will install ubuntu in virtualbox, test out more program, and see what else i can find out with the sim
[01:40:33] <morficmobile> see if i can touch RTAI on my laptop, just to get a feel for that, checkout emc and look at how well the code is documented, all while checking how much ladder logic there is i can reuse, looking at the rest of the docs/wiki
[01:44:07] <pfred1> man this motor driver i built sounds like an alien plotting to destroy the world!
[01:52:42] <morficmobile> forgot about a little detail, i got like ~4GB left on this drive, installing ubuntu would be a nice squeeze
[01:52:58] <Valen> nah its pretty small
[01:53:06] <Valen> ~1gb would be enough
[01:53:11] <morficmobile> let me revise that, 1GB free
[01:53:18] <morficmobile> ohhh
[01:53:21] <Valen> see its still all good ;->
[01:53:36] <morficmobile> he installed inventor 2011 on it today
[01:54:14] <morficmobile> Valen: to run sim i could just boot the livecd inside virtualbox and work on files from USB disk
[02:16:27] <Valen> yeah, its a pain in the ass to work like that though
[02:19:09] <Valen> you could just run it off an external hdd
[02:19:15] <morficmobile> just as much as sitting on a windows machine that runs out of space
[02:19:57] <morficmobile> Valen: i will most likely do that, i think i even saw some sit around, if they have no purpose, i will have a purpose for them :)
[02:20:05] <Valen> sounds like a plan
[02:20:07] <morficmobile> silly 37GB drives in these workstations....
[02:20:17] <Valen> 37gb? weak
[02:20:28] <Valen> unless they are solid state disks of 15Krpm SCSI
[02:21:16] <Valen> of = or
[02:21:36] <morficmobile> just some WD sata drive
[02:21:45] <Valen> dude, upgrade time lol
[02:21:48] <morficmobile> and based on noise, not a 10k either
[02:21:57] <Valen> 80gb drives are like $40 or something
[02:22:14] <Valen> our EMC has a 200gb drive cos that was the smallest the supplier had in stock
[02:22:15] <morficmobile> i am the one who gets the designer's or cad guy's computer if they get a newer one :)
[02:22:32] <pfred1> Valen are you buying?
[02:22:47] <Valen> buying what?
[02:22:54] <pfred1> 22:21 < Valen> 80gb drives are like $40 or something
[02:23:32] <pfred1> I was digging through a box looking for papers and I found an HDD in it I didn't know i had
[02:23:55] <pfred1> now I wonder why I'd put it into that box?
[02:24:08] <morficmobile> i'd buy a nice disk on my own coin for this, but wife's dog went to vet today, $1k out the door
[02:24:14] <morficmobile> pfred1: hook it up and find out
[02:24:30] <pfred1> morficmobile the thought has crossed my mind
[02:24:45] <morficmobile> not curious enough yet though?
[02:24:55] <pfred1> I did look it up on the net and found out it's only 2.5GB so its not the HDD I thought it might have been
[02:25:13] <pfred1> I lost a 120 GB drive a few years ago
[02:25:31] <pfred1> put it someplace where it'd be safe and its still hiding there!
[02:26:03] <pfred1> don't you hate when you do that?
[02:27:16] <morficmobile> we always have stuff in safe places we then never find again
[02:27:39] <pfred1> I think its a universal thing to do this is special so I'll put it someplace special
[02:28:19] <pfred1> someplace i rarely go or disturb ...
[02:28:30] <Valen> pfred1: I'm an IT person, I keep track of that kind of stuff
[02:30:58] <pfred1> when I was younger i had an almost eidetic memory but its just not what it used to be now I have to say
[02:31:26] <pfred1> I used to freak my grandfather out when i could remember where everything was
[02:34:20] <pfred1> though i could remember where somethng was I'd seen 4 years ago and can still manage to misplace my keys
[02:35:11] <pfred1> and that sort of freaks me out when I think about it
[02:50:01] <morficmobile> soon it's all quiet in here
[02:57:42] <calcite> morific did you contact Yas or Siemans?
[03:00:00] <morficmobile> calcite: my wife's almost dieing dog ruined my morning free time to do that, we will do it though, i brought up what Dave911 said, in our meeting about Camsoft vs EMC, about contacting them direct for best price on the indexing spindle drive
[03:02:48] <calcite> Sounds right, regarding the dog, My daughter (away at university) left her dog with us. I like the brute. Anyway, the dog starts looking whimpy, then limpy, then looks like the end. I start wondering about that phone call. ;-)
[03:03:23] <morficmobile> your call to her?
[03:04:14] <calcite> a trip to the vet, describe the symptoms, the vet says " it's Lyme disease, here is the prescription" It worked! Two days later, the dog is off the death bed, happy as a clam at high tide!. This was a year ago
[03:04:37] <calcite> The dog is out in Montana with her now! Chasing off suiters I hope!
[03:04:46] <morficmobile> ha
[03:04:52] <Valen> lol good luck
[03:04:54] <morficmobile> our had internal bleeding
[03:04:57] <morficmobile> ours*
[03:05:00] <Valen> 's no good
[03:05:03] <calcite> that ;-) was meant to be :-(
[03:05:09] <morficmobile> probably the bigger ones roughed her up
[03:05:23] <Valen> our small one keeps getting half eaten
[03:05:30] <calcite> No fighting back when it's soft parts
[03:05:39] <Valen> speaking of which I should take them for a walk
[03:05:48] <morficmobile> calcite: oh, i just thought you are one of those "Then i got my gun and put em down" Texans when i saw the ;-)
[03:06:04] <Valen> rofl
[03:06:28] <calcite> You know there is a "theory" that the pups should stay with the bitch for AT LEAST 9 MONTHS! to learn the ways of dealing with others, dog and man.
[03:06:48] <Valen> 9 months might be a bit long
[03:07:02] <Valen> cats get really messed up if they are taken too young
[03:07:15] <calcite> Nah not if you want them to learn all the lessons mom has to offer
[03:07:18] <Valen> I think it also depends on where they are going
[03:07:35] <Valen> if they are going into another "pack" thats probably ok
[03:07:50] <Valen> if they are going to a solitary place, then well I think thats a bad idea anyway
[03:07:52] <calcite> Going to Grandma's lap to bit the face of 4 year olds is the one I worry about
[03:08:04] <calcite> bite
[03:08:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: California =)
[03:10:33] <calcite> Hey I have a couple of OLD PCs Too old like DX's or something, Is it practical to fit in a modern MO Board? Or just can these and buy something off the net? Only application is EMC machine control
[03:11:11] <calcite> I lit one up the other day....16 MB of on board ram, I almost choked!
[03:11:23] <Valen> nah they all changed when they went from AT to ATX
[03:11:32] <Valen> pentium > pentium 2 era
[03:11:43] <calcite> yep P2
[03:11:49] <calcite> or the like
[03:12:16] <Valen> the "dx" series were 486's IE 99% they will be AT and not compatible with ATX stuff
[03:12:51] <calcite> I'm thinking....The PS might work, but might not connect, Ahh the HD the CD, the serial ports..... so much compatability,
[03:13:06] <Valen> the power connector is different
[03:13:15] <Valen> AT used a single row header
[03:13:33] <calcite> See, glad I asked, at least the wall plug must still fit;-)
[03:13:48] <Valen> ATX is a dual row 20 pin header and atx 1.3 which is most newer stuff (other than really small things) are 24 pin
[03:14:03] <Valen> also theres the aux 12V connector on most new stuff as well
[03:14:14] <Valen> I'd say sell em on ebay as antiques if they are running
[03:14:22] <Valen> use the money to buy an atom board ;->
[03:14:35] <calcite> Any advice on the "best choice" off the "-bay" for less than $100?
[03:14:49] <Valen> you can buy new stuff for that price range
[03:15:19] <calcite> Really,, just th MB surely
[03:15:53] <Valen> mbo + cpu + ram I'd imagine, if you can dumpsterdive an ATX case and a HDD your set
[03:17:30] <calcite> I'll need to look at the component level. I did pick up a Lenovo "Desk-something or other" couple of years ago. Latencey sucks
[03:17:46] <calcite> might work with a Mesa card
[03:19:28] <calcite> Anyone familiar with ORMEC Servo drives? Firewire interface
[03:21:03] <Valen> if its a desktop odds are it'll have all the bits you need to run an atom mbo
[03:23:26] <calcite> Ahh thanks Valen, I had not thought to change mbo on the Lenove/IBM, the unit is so "homogenized". Very modular SFF
[03:26:11] <calcite> Well, An Atom from Tiger Direct is not in the running http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5208988&CatId=4551
[03:26:26] <Valen> dont quote me on it sight unseen but generally the PSU and hdd are ok
[03:26:47] <Valen> yeah I want one of those for my TV computer ;->
[03:26:55] <calcite> No binding contracts ;-)
[03:27:18] <Valen> D945GCLF2 is the one you want
[03:27:25] <calcite> That board has a lot of stuff on it
[03:27:35] <Valen> yeah its a high end doohickey
[03:27:44] <Valen> with no pci slots lol
[03:28:10] <calcite> Where will I put the NI 488 boards?
[03:28:23] <Valen> theres yer prablem ;->
[03:32:16] <calcite> So I can't "upgrade" all this GP-IB electro- motivational equipment ???? ;-)
[03:33:45] <calcite> pen plotters, spectophotometers, EG&G end point detecors? Ohh! bother!
[03:40:02] <calcite> Valen, i googled "Atom D945GCLF2" and the returns were linux bugs! Now how is that? (I have not read any of the links yet)
[03:54:51] <cliffb> Hello all, I'm thinking of modifying my mill to a CNC using steppers but want manual control still so I will attach a wheel to the back shaft. Do hybrid steppers when not energized pulse like the ones you find in a printer or will they run smooth?
[03:55:26] <cliffb> I figure it's just the permanent manget ones but I'm thought I would ask.
[04:00:17] <calcite> Are there steppers that do not have magnets, at least residual? I thought they all cogged when not powered
[04:16:13] <cliffb> I'm not sure. I have only ever used servo's for most things. N.m. they are permanent magnets too. damn... I could see cogged pulse getting annoying in manual..
[04:17:40] <morficmobile> put a magnetic clutch in between, if not in auto, it's your handle only?
[04:20:07] <calcite> morf Belt drive?
[04:20:57] <calcite> a hand wheel between a motor and shaft would be cumbersome
[04:22:41] <cliffb> Yeah that would do it... Or I can just not worry about controlling it by hand and always use the computer.
[04:23:28] <cliffb> Not too sure If I really want to tackle it with this mill, might look for something getting the backlash out of isn't going to be a PITA
[04:29:04] <calcite> the cogging can be a nice feel... a sort of digital effect. Though I have to admit, My experience is turning damping "wheels" rather than proper machine tool hand wheels.
[04:29:14] <calcite> Nite now!
[04:34:03] <cliffb> Is there anyone out there that would be interested in a Embedded 800Mhz CPU boad, Mesa 4i65 FPGA, Opto-22 Rack, Mesa 7i33 Analog Card and Power Supply? Figure here is a good spot someone might actually use it..
[04:40:58] <DaViruz> further specs on the cpu board?
[04:41:43] <DaViruz> or to be blunt, does it have LVDS video output?
[04:42:38] <cliffb> it does have a LCD panel connector.. but I'm not sure of the signalling.. I'll grab it just a sec
[04:44:54] <DaViruz> i have sort of already commited towards mini-itx though, but pc104 is what i orgiginally wanted
[04:45:18] <DaViruz> but i was deterred by the $2k price tag on cpu boards with decent performance
[04:48:27] <cliffb> Found it.. http://www.corvalent.com/02b_ind_boards/mb_440bx_ebx.shtml
[04:49:16] <DaViruz> oh, ebx, too large then :/
[04:49:46] <cliffb> yeah.. its smaller than mini itx but not by much.
[04:50:12] <DaViruz> only in one dimension though
[04:50:36] <DaViruz> very neat setup for emc2 either way, i hope i finds a good home
[04:50:58] <cliffb> My main plan is to sell it so I can buy a 5i22 for my mini itx system...
[04:52:39] <DaViruz> http://daviruz.meeep.net/gallery2/v/eye-fi-dump/IMG_1786.JPG.html
[04:53:33] <DaViruz> still need to get a 5i23 though. 5i22 would be nice but i suspect it won't fit in the case
[04:55:53] <cliffb> Thats a nice setup. http://www.powerautomation.net/mainpage/images/stories/CNC/PC013189.jpg
[04:58:08] <DaViruz> hmm, what's the lower left board? some kind of relay board?
[04:58:44] <cliffb> on the bottom? it's just relays on din rail
[04:59:25] <DaViruz> err. bottom right
[04:59:30] <morficmobile> DaViruz: eye-fi working well?
[04:59:40] <DaViruz> morficmobile: yeah, really well
[05:00:09] <cliffb> It's an opto relay rack for all the io.. You plug the input or output module you and into it an viola..
[05:00:28] <cliffb> Works great with the MESA cards...
[05:03:44] <DaViruz> oh, that's the opto22 board you mentioned before?
[05:04:34] <cliffb> yeah. I have two a 16io and the 24 on in the picture.. I would sell the 16 one..
[05:06:45] <morficmobile> since eye-fi works with my E30 iirc, i am always wondering if i should or not
[05:08:49] <DaViruz> i use it in a canon eos 20d, which actually uses compact flash
[05:08:55] <DaViruz> not exactly supported but works great
[05:09:40] <DaViruz> i can't imagine going back to cables, file transfer programs etc for publishing a single photo
[05:14:31] <morficmobile> :)
[06:47:33] <alex_joni> micges_work: good morning
[06:50:34] <Jymmm> Heh, you just gotta love linux... Pulled a dual bot ubuntu xp hdd from a T61, shoved it in my netbook and booted ubuntu. It even automatically connected to the wifi network.
[06:50:40] <Jymmm> s/bot/boot/
[06:51:24] <Jymmm> I LUST this netbook!!!
[06:51:32] <Jymmm> Lenovo IdeaPad S10
[06:52:20] <Jymmm> Now, as soon as they fix the BIOS, I'll be set! lol
[06:52:36] <morficmobile> CAN I LUST IT TOO?
[06:52:48] <morficmobile> oops, silly all caps for setup sheets
[06:52:59] <Jymmm> morfic: Sure, for $600 USD + shipping.
[06:53:25] <morficmobile> Jymmm: as much as i hate the monster ubuntu kernels, they sure are nice when you move them across different hardware
[06:53:56] <Jymmm> No, M$ has monster installs.
[06:54:25] <morficmobile> oh no, i'm not going there, i'm just a "i compile my own kernel zealot" :P
[06:54:42] <morficmobile> di.fm kept me going tonight, forgot mp3 player at home
[06:57:01] <Jymmm> compiling a kernel for anything other than a server farm is a waste of time.
[06:58:17] <morficmobile> works for a really small device too
[06:58:31] <Jymmm> eh
[06:58:46] <Jymmm> they have those already
[07:00:16] <morficmobile> not going to stay on a old kernel if i see a lot of usb and xfs fixes in a newer version for example, when it has usb disks attached and got some flakeyness with em, just as an example
[07:00:47] <Jymmm> Lie on the bleeding edge and you WILL get cut =)
[07:00:51] <Jymmm> Live
[07:01:06] <morficmobile> i tend not to try to bleed too long
[07:01:18] <morficmobile> oh wow, grammar fail
[07:01:29] <morficmobile> i tend to try not to bleed too long
[07:01:51] <morficmobile> * morficmobile blames it at 2am not having the usual nap before night shift
[07:02:21] <morficmobile> and i blame it "on", not "at" 2am :/
[07:02:38] <morficmobile> Jymmm: here is your chance, can win any argument now
[07:17:28] <morficmobile> Jymmm: what's bleeding edge? git? -rc? .33 before .33.x? :)
[07:18:38] <Jymmm> CP/M v2.2
[07:22:17] <morficmobile> you sure are conservative then
[07:22:44] <Jymmm> Well, what else do you run on a Kaypro computer?
[07:23:06] <Jymmm> with a 7" amber monochrome crt
[07:26:23] <morficmobile> i need to shut down here and go home
[07:26:28] <morficmobile> 'night
[07:26:40] <morficmobile> enjoy your good for the eyes amber screen
[07:52:59] <sealive> morning
[08:30:45] <morfic> 'morning sealive
[08:32:52] <sealive> i'am trying to get FreeMill to work with ubuntu karmic64
[08:33:05] <sealive> the programm runs under wine near perfect
[08:33:15] <sealive> but it does not save me the output
[08:43:26] <morfic> sealive: never tried freemill, sure you have write permissions for where you try to save?
[08:43:38] <sealive> yes
[08:44:55] <morfic> reminds me i have yet to install wine on here :)
[08:47:47] <sealive> works perfect no i logt it then i saw what wars rong Windows SPACE foult
[08:48:04] <sealive> this is the perfect Gcode-Fenerator for me
[08:48:17] <sealive> and now on my Carmic 64 system running
[08:52:42] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:43:03] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[12:14:08] <serpe> hi all
[12:15:06] <serpe> I've a question. I'm working in an electronic company as R&D. I'm trying to design a CNC glue machine and I'd like
[12:15:18] <serpe> to start with something usable
[12:15:25] <serpe> my question is:
[12:15:57] <serpe> do I need linear absolute encoder or I can use only brushless+ step controller motor?
[12:16:38] <SWPadnos> there are other choices between those
[12:17:02] <serpe> like stepper motor?
[12:17:03] <SWPadnos> such as a servo (brushed or brushless) with encoder, driven with analog velocity control
[12:17:30] <SWPadnos> you don't need to use a step based motor drive
[12:17:36] <serpe> ok
[12:18:11] <SWPadnos> in fact it's a bit harder to use step drivers when you have feedback
[12:18:27] <serpe> I'm looking for brushless motor with quadrature encoder and step/dir controller
[12:18:40] <SWPadnos> why a step/dir controller?
[12:19:17] <serpe> what kind of interface cas use with emc2 tu use different type of controller?
[12:19:32] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[12:19:48] <SWPadnos> step/dir, PWM, or analog
[12:19:55] <serpe> wow :)
[12:19:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[12:20:20] <serpe> and what kind of controller you can suggest to me?
[12:20:52] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what you mean. EMC2 is the controller
[12:20:58] <SWPadnos> are you asking about motor drives?
[12:21:23] <serpe> ok, what I mean is that I'm choosing HW interfaces
[12:21:51] <SWPadnos> well, my personal favorites are the Mesa FPGA cards, since they're reconfigurable
[12:22:15] <serpe> they need a pci or isa bus?
[12:22:18] <SWPadnos> PCI
[12:22:23] <serpe> nice
[12:22:32] <SWPadnos> there is one model that connects to a parallel port as well
[12:22:40] <SWPadnos> but PCI is better
[12:22:53] <serpe> (http://nmr.chim.unisi.it/images/fresa.jpg I made this when I was young)
[12:23:10] <SWPadnos> oh, cool
[12:23:25] <serpe> first version was in plexyglass :)
[12:23:49] <SWPadnos> I bet you learned a lot from that one :)
[12:24:04] <serpe> yes
[12:24:12] <serpe> bus was only a toy
[12:24:30] <serpe> now I need somethig more robust
[12:24:58] <serpe> I've no experience with motors other than stepper
[12:25:53] <serpe> and I've used only parallel port
[12:25:54] <SWPadnos> once you add real feedback, steppers are no longer easier to work with
[12:26:06] <serpe> yes I gess
[12:26:07] <serpe> guess
[12:26:36] <SWPadnos> and there probably isn't enough I/O on a parallel port for 3 steppers plus encoders, plus the other I/O you need
[12:27:13] <serpe> yes, I didn't use encoders, only 2bit each motor
[12:27:48] <serpe> now I've to find the right motor. The working surface should be about 2000x2000
[12:28:08] <SWPadnos> you need to find the right screws first :)
[12:28:28] <serpe> oh, yes :)
[12:28:53] <serpe> well, thank you very much for your help,
[12:29:02] <SWPadnos> you're welcome
[12:29:09] <serpe> probably I'll ask you more the next days
[12:29:17] <serpe> have a nice week
[12:29:22] <SWPadnos> thanks. you too
[12:29:24] <SWPadnos> ciao :)
[12:29:26] <serpe> bye
[12:47:00] <frallzor> * frallzor feels good today
[13:59:27] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:59:27] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-04-15.txt
[14:09:04] <sealive> milling beethoven http://www.sammellothar.de/beet_m.png
[14:12:43] <skunkworks> sealive: free mill working for you?
[14:15:00] <skunkworks> * skunkworks only played with it once.
[14:19:20] <sealive> yes on karmic 64
[14:19:40] <sealive> you neet to put the stl into the wine folder wher it is
[14:20:02] <sealive> and make shure that there is no space in the folder name during installation
[14:20:41] <sealive> you neet to put the stl into the wine folder wher Freemill Exampes are
[14:23:47] <flexxxv> hello, I finished th CAD modell for the CNC. http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/2498257/1/CNC%20CAD%20Bilder?h=602906 . What would you change? (I wont change the linear slides because I aready have them). Is there a huge difference between the light and the heavy alu profiles?
[14:25:50] <atmega> the Z axis is unsupported?
[14:26:37] <flexxxv> unsoppoted? what do you mean? I haven't finish the drill mount yet.
[14:27:23] <atmega> looks like the bottom is not attached to anything
[14:27:31] <herron> flexxxv, application of machine wood/plastic/foam?
[14:27:38] <sealive> flexxxv: heavy
[14:27:50] <atmega> that's a lot of aluminum
[14:28:14] <sealive> flexxxv: this is mine http://www.sammellothar.de/X_rahmen.mpg
[14:28:20] <flexxxv> Yes wood and plastic, but I would also love towork with alu
[14:28:39] <awallin> do you really need all that Z-movement? that will flex for sure
[14:28:49] <herron> the long Z may cause problems
[14:28:49] <awallin> and are you going to work mostly in soft materials?
[14:30:01] <flexxxv> Probatly yes, no steel or such kind of things. but alu would be nice. Do you have some good Ideas how to make the alu construction cheaper?
[14:30:23] <atmega> all those brackets get pretty pricey
[14:30:36] <sealive> flexxxv: see my construct
[14:30:39] <herron> flexxxv, your nick suits that design
[14:30:50] <sealive> its simply cutting your profile
[14:31:29] <sealive> flexxxv: what dimansion do you go for
[14:31:31] <herron> I see no shear force restriction
[14:32:03] <toastydeath> why is the shape a cube
[14:32:20] <flexxxv> :P I hate to change the design again :P dimension is about 50cm*50cm*40cm (the construction and it will be able to drive aubout 40x30x20
[14:32:22] <toastydeath> and is that center doodad the spindle?
[14:32:47] <flexxxv> this center thing is the spindle, Bad position?
[14:33:07] <atmega> it's too long anyway
[14:33:11] <herron> flexible therefore chatter and tool breakage
[14:33:11] <toastydeath> well, a spindle design like that is very low in rigidity
[14:33:26] <atmega> and seems to have no support on the bottom so it will flex along the Y axis at least
[14:33:29] <toastydeath> most machines that have spindles or rams like that will have a second Z axis that adjusts the rest of the frame
[14:33:49] <herron> or only work on foam
[14:33:55] <elmo40> sealive: how did you make the Mt. Rushmore g-code? image-to-gcode script? CAM Program?
[14:34:09] <atmega> critiquing someone elses design is a whole lot easier than actually doing the design!
[14:34:42] <elmo40> I just scrolled up... sketchup then blender then freemill
[14:35:19] <toastydeath> http://www.machinetools4sale.com/images/prodimgs/Summit/vbm_l.jpg
[14:35:31] <toastydeath> the main Z axis is attached to a secondary W axis
[14:35:44] <toastydeath> so there is as little flex as possible
[14:36:12] <toastydeath> http://www.ms-tech.com/image/Pond%20Bridge%20Mill_s.jpg
[14:36:15] <toastydeath> same with this machine
[14:37:23] <sealive> flexxxv: i got 28cmcube with 165mm axis xY and 55mm Z
[14:37:41] <sealive> costs 250Euro includ all Electronic
[14:37:53] <atmega> pics?
[14:38:00] <flexxxv> Nice, what can you cut with it?
[14:38:16] <sealive> bras but its for PCB
[14:38:28] <sealive> at 900mm/min
[14:38:52] <awallin> something like this is good http://www.gimbal.com.au/image.axd?picture=200906291141_2.jpg :)
[14:39:25] <atmega> won't fit in my garage
[14:39:26] <toastydeath> on machine designs like awallin just linked, the maximum rigidity happens at the lowest Z height
[14:39:43] <toastydeath> whereas bridge mills, etc, tend to have the highest rigidity at the top of Z travel
[14:39:49] <sealive> awallin: but not at 250Euro
[14:40:25] <flexxxv> Ok how about: I will tell you what components I have and youz tell me how you would make a good constuction with alu profiles. :D
[14:41:46] <atmega> how about a lower horizontal bearing supporting the Z along the X axis
[14:44:44] <flexxxv> I have 2 of these (not exactly but looking similar) http://www.igus.de/_wpck/images/global/1_2/drylin_sht_1.jpg one is about 550mm the other about 345. I also have 4 times this: http://www.nb-sh.cn/nbchanpin/UploadFiles_3012/200704/20070412125043570.jpg (430 mm). And I have two threaded spindles and 4 of these: http://www.igus.de/wpck/default.aspx?Pagename=xiros_stehlager&CL=DE-de. I got all the material quiet cheap
[14:45:40] <flexxxv> each of the linear slides from NB have 2 sliedes
[14:56:01] <sealive> flexxxv: i got everything from Meadler
[14:56:27] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[14:57:08] <flexxxv> sealive: Yeah I know this shop. But I got a lot of these thing very very cheap.
[14:58:49] <sealive> so use it
[14:58:54] <sealive> :D
[14:59:05] <sealive> do thex do 25cm
[15:02:48] <elmo40> flexxxv: for your frame. any way to add a diagonal beam for torsional rigidity? (cross bar)
[15:03:14] <flexxxv> i already thought about this.
[15:04:30] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[15:04:58] <flexxxv> So I changed the design a little bit: http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/2498257/1/CNC%20CAD%20Bilder?h=602906
[15:05:50] <atmega> you are speedy.
[15:06:09] <flexxxv> @atemega: Yeah critique is so much easier :D
[15:06:33] <flexxxv> @ atmega just a little change :D
[15:06:35] <atmega> almost infinitely1
[15:08:08] <flexxxv> Is the spindle position now better?
[15:08:28] <sealive> flexx bist du deutscher
[15:08:41] <flexxxv> ja :D
[15:08:47] <sealive> ah ja
[15:08:54] <sealive> RLP Ramstein hier
[15:09:10] <flexxxv> *I hate Rammstein* ;)
[15:10:00] <sealive> nicht die band die stadt
[15:10:19] <atmega> perhaps he hates both.
[15:10:37] <flexxxv> no :P
[15:11:43] <sealive> Ramstein military base is serving for us all in the world
[15:12:04] <atmega> yeah, that's it!
[15:12:15] <flexxxv> @sealive do you know a cheap supplier for alu profiles?
[15:13:06] <atmega> you can usually source the alu pretty cheap, it's all the brackets and stuff that bring the price up.
[15:13:10] <sealive> i got one here in town
[15:13:29] <sealive> the 6m of 40Square here i both for 20Euro
[15:13:59] <flexxxv> do you have a name?
[15:14:24] <flexxxv> I'm looking for 45x90 :D
[15:14:29] <atmega> I'm #6
[15:14:40] <atmega> oh wait, I'm a man, not a number.
[15:15:04] <flexxxv> atmega: what is going on?
[15:15:43] <atmega> I'm tired of writing code
[15:15:50] <flexxxv> ok
[15:17:50] <JT-Work> * JT-Work wanders off to go fishing
[15:18:05] <atmega> now that is an exceptional idea
[15:18:51] <flexxxv> I think I have to change the design of the aluu frame. I think it is getting too expensiv :-/
[15:20:33] <flexxxv> how much difference does it make if i use the light profiles instead the heavy ones?
[15:21:05] <atmega> depends on the shpae? a closed structure should be pretty rigid with either?
[15:23:10] <flexxxv> hmm closed stucutre... Is mine a closed structure?
[15:24:27] <Srpski> Srpski is now known as Dannyboy
[15:24:31] <flexxxv> @sealive which companys can cut alu profiles? what do I have to look for in the yellow pages?
[15:26:04] <sealive> Fensterbau
[15:27:11] <flexxxv> thanks
[15:28:16] <sealive> i finaly got mountRushmore at the EMC code 100x50 inch ->http://www.sammellothar.de/mount_m.png
[15:29:10] <flexxxv> nice :D, I also want a CNC :D
[15:30:03] <flexxxv> Is your webpage not working in firefox?
[15:30:44] <sealive> shoudt work there is nothing on it
[15:31:01] <flexxxv> ok i thought there is missing a lot :D
[15:31:26] <sealive> there is only a driver L297/298 animation
[15:32:48] <flexxxv> yeah I see it. I was also thin about using L297 L298, but now I use a3982 chip.
[15:33:07] <flexxxv> thinking
[15:33:38] <sealive> G540 from the states 150dollars
[15:33:54] <sealive> 4Axis only put 40V on it
[15:34:06] <sealive> thats nice
[15:34:09] <megasega> hi, I have a problem with emc2 - if it goes fast it does not go the full distance, like it's loosing step signals. But it goes back to the proper zero position. What do I do wrong?
[15:34:20] <flexxxv> yes, how about min/max sensors?
[15:34:23] <sealive> for power over 4A per Phase use G320
[15:34:47] <flexxxv> I can only power 2A
[15:34:48] <atmega> where do you get a G540 for 150dollars?
[15:34:53] <sealive> i use Switches and software ends
[15:35:34] <sealive> there is compled kit for 2A
[15:35:53] <sealive> with 40V 285Dollar
[15:35:59] <sealive> all includet
[15:36:51] <flexxxv> too expensiv :P, I already have the Pcbs but I'm still waiting for some electronic components. I soldered already one axis controller together and it is working :D
[15:37:07] <sealive> :D
[15:37:15] <sealive> as i started
[15:37:27] <sealive> then i went to mechapro
[15:37:36] <sealive> and then to geckodrive
[15:37:40] <flexxxv> I built this: http://reprap.org/wiki/Stepper_Motor_Driver_2.3
[15:38:07] <sealive> its nice small and working proper
[15:38:42] <sealive> flexxxv: that will only work for 10min milling
[15:38:54] <sealive> i need at least 5Hours
[15:39:12] <sealive> the mountain will mill for 10or more
[15:39:21] <flexxxv> I thought the smd components would be harder, but it was ok. I had no problem with the first Pcb :D (first time SMD), why only 10 min?
[15:39:39] <elmo40> sealive: I don't know how you put the sketchup file into blender.
[15:39:43] <sealive> its on the limit
[15:39:50] <flexxxv> *already have it running for more time*
[15:40:08] <sealive> import via collada elmo40
[15:40:10] <elmo40> how did you use Collada?
[15:40:27] <sealive> i use V0.3.162 colada 1.4.0
[15:40:42] <sealive> download collada
[15:40:48] <flexxxv> I cant see why it shouldn't run for more time. Also the reprap guys use it more time! :P
[15:40:49] <sealive> from sketchup
[15:40:55] <sealive> unpack it
[15:41:06] <sealive> in the modell file ther is the dae
[15:41:25] <elmo40> openCollada? or Collada?
[15:41:40] <sealive> for the mount rushmore you will get 10emptys and about 15 meshes
[15:42:05] <sealive> blender import collada
[15:42:30] <sealive> then join them togeter from large to small
[15:42:40] <sealive> if you got 1 mesh
[15:42:52] <sealive> kill all the emptys
[15:43:00] <elmo40> you imported multiple files?
[15:43:19] <elmo40> I don't see 1.4.0
[15:43:25] <sealive> no only the dae
[15:43:40] <sealive> witch blender you got
[15:43:47] <sealive> 2.49b
[15:43:52] <elmo40> latest
[15:43:56] <sealive> 2.5
[15:44:05] <elmo40> this is the page I am at: http://www.opencollada.org/download.html
[15:44:19] <frallzor> elmo40 yes, 3phase at a residential place =)
[15:44:31] <sealive> its in the scripts includet you must not download anything
[15:44:44] <elmo40> frallzor: damn. sweet!
[15:44:46] <frallzor> common wiring here, 3phase > house >1phase to the rooms
[15:45:19] <frallzor> * frallzor is eating strawberries
[15:45:21] <elmo40> now, will it increase your bill? I hear 3-phase systems cost more / month
[15:45:21] <frallzor> I earn them
[15:45:24] <sealive> frallzor: 3phase to the dish washer
[15:45:52] <frallzor> elmo40 no idea
[15:46:20] <DaViruz> pretty much all houses in sweden has 3 phase power
[15:46:25] <DaViruz> even most apartments have it
[15:48:14] <skunkworks> must be nice!
[15:48:49] <DaViruz> i have never known anything else so it's hard to tell :)
[15:49:05] <Jymmm> skunkworks: There ya go... Save yourself $75,000 USD, move to Sweden! Ya ya
[15:49:47] <sealive> Jymmm: as a doctor you can get eaven more
[15:49:50] <flexxxv> In germany it is also normal. But when I was in Bolivia... you don't want to know about the electicity there :P
[15:50:36] <sealive> elmo40: http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/150410175014_blender.png
[15:50:50] <sealive> blender screenshot how to do
[15:52:45] <sealive> so i got to go BB
[16:04:59] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[17:23:36] <sealive> elmo40: does the sketchup work
[17:28:05] <Jymmm> I need to laminate some plywood, what's a good way to clamp 2ft x 4ft sheets?
[17:28:49] <archivist_attic> Jymmm, many tons of pressure
[17:29:11] <Jymmm> archivist_attic: Ok, 5gal buckets of water it is!
[17:29:22] <atmega> get some 2ft x 4ft 1/2" steel plate, sandwich the boards, park a forklift on it.
[17:30:10] <archivist_attic> park a few more forklifts on top of the first forklift
[17:30:33] <bill2or3> then jump up&down on the top forklift.
[17:31:23] <atmega> then, pick a different material.
[17:31:43] <frallzor> anyone know the software Aspire?
[17:33:54] <sealive> Jymmm: go to the next stonestore and get some blocks for less broken ones that will do the job
[17:34:04] <archivist_attic> a quick google and I saw 9000KN pressure
[17:37:16] <atmega> that's a lot of 5gallon buckets of water
[17:38:34] <archivist_attic> I just found another and the smallest press was 500 tons
[17:39:11] <archivist_attic> one would run out of forklifts
[17:39:37] <archivist_attic> oh fork the stack of forkers fell over
[17:42:31] <Dave911> Jymmm: Vacuum bagging .... easy, cheap and effective at 14.7 lbs per square inch....
[17:43:01] <Dave911> 2100 lbs per square ft....
[17:45:13] <archivist_attic> 640 Tonnes 8' X 4'- Plywood Press
[17:45:56] <Dave911> That would work also... but the one I have is broken ... so gotta go cheap .... ;-)
[17:46:25] <Jymmm> Dave911: just need to find a really big bag =)
[17:47:06] <Dave911> Make one out of plastic sheets and tape it together ??
[17:47:10] <archivist_attic> looks like they use up to 20 tons per sq ft
[17:47:53] <Dave911> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPXn038ahD4 Vacuum bagging is often done for composite construction... air pressure is free! :-)
[17:48:28] <Dave911> There are lots of other similar vids on Youtube...
[17:48:51] <Jymmm> Yeah, I've seen vacuum bagging before.
[17:48:51] <Dave911> pcw_home: Hi Peter ..
[17:49:04] <pcw_home> HI
[17:49:40] <Dave911> gotta question... 7i43 vs 5i20... how much impact is there on cpu time between the two...
[17:50:57] <SWPadnos> 10x or so
[17:51:07] <Dave911> Is there a noticable difference between the two on lower power CPUs like Atom 330's etc..
[17:51:29] <Dave911> Hi SWPadnos...
[17:51:42] <SWPadnos> I think the total I/O servicing time on the PCI cards is around 5-10 us, and it's 50 or more on the 7i43
[17:51:44] <SWPadnos> hi
[17:51:51] <SWPadnos> incidentally, the Atom 330 is EOL
[17:52:07] <SWPadnos> the D945GCLF2 motherboard has been discontinued since February
[17:52:10] <skunkworks> eol?
[17:52:14] <SWPadnos> end of life
[17:52:16] <skunkworks> end of life
[17:52:16] <Dave911> So that is the servicing time every servo cycle?
[17:52:20] <pcw_home> I would think the 7I43 overhead (maybe 100 uSec) would be OK with 1 mS servo threads
[17:52:25] <archivist_attic> end of line
[17:52:40] <SWPadnos> end of le-chip
[17:52:45] <SWPadnos> Dave911, yes
[17:52:46] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: do you know what is replacing it?
[17:52:51] <Dave911> I thought the 330 board was going until sometime next year.. did they change the plans???
[17:52:51] <pcw_home> 5I20 better if you want 4 KHz or so threads
[17:53:10] <SWPadnos> and as PCW said, it doesn't matter much for a 1ms servo cycle, but if you want to go faster it will matter
[17:53:19] <skunkworks> I know it will not do a 10khz servo thread on an atom.. ;)
[17:53:29] <pcw_home> (510 boards already replacing the D945GCLF2)
[17:53:31] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, apparently the D410 and D510 are replacing the 270 and 330 faster than Intel had anticipated
[17:53:59] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, they don't have identical other specs, so some of us are somewhat screwed by the change
[17:54:25] <pcw_home> 10 Khz might be OK on the Atom
[17:54:25] <skunkworks> * skunkworks couldn't figure out why I kept getting a rtai timing error until I remembered I set the servo thread to 10khz for testing.
[17:54:52] <Dave911> The D510 board looks just like a 330 board, I've got both here.. But the D510 board only has a LPT header, no DB25 plug
[17:55:09] <Dave911> The 330 board is a nice setup...
[17:55:19] <skunkworks> I have had good luck with it.
[17:55:36] <skunkworks> but for the big machine I needed 2 pci slots.
[17:55:44] <SWPadnos> I thought there were some USB headers missing too
[17:55:45] <pcw_home> Looks lije the 510 uses the same Winbond SuperIO so I know its EPP support is OK
[17:55:54] <Dave911> So the 330 CPU is eol, not just the intel 330 boards?
[17:56:01] <SWPadnos> I think that's the case, yes
[17:56:13] <Dave911> Wow, that is too bad...
[17:56:59] <SWPadnos> the processors themselves may still be available (that could be the next year thing you're thinking of), but the various motherboards have been discontinued
[17:56:59] <pcw_home> probably really painful for people making embedded Atom 330 based cards
[17:57:07] <SWPadnos> probably
[17:57:29] <SWPadnos> Dave911, are there at least 2 USB2 headers on the D510 motherboard?
[17:57:44] <Dave911> I can look.. I have one right here ...
[17:57:51] <SWPadnos> thanks
[17:57:56] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: didn't you go with something else for your project?
[17:58:00] <SWPadnos> no
[17:58:05] <skunkworks> oh
[17:58:42] <SWPadnos> the only reason I found out about the EOL was because I had to go to a local place to grab a few motherboards, and they sent a bulk mail to everyone who had bought the D945GCLF2
[17:58:51] <SWPadnos> lucky me
[17:58:54] <Dave911> 1 USB header
[17:59:01] <SWPadnos> that's what I thought
[17:59:09] <SWPadnos> and is what screws my application, as I need two
[17:59:20] <Dave911> But there is a USB flash card header also??
[17:59:34] <SWPadnos> I think that one only has electrical connections for one port or something
[17:59:39] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I think the servo thread at 10khz worked fine with the default 5i22 setup - but when I added classic ladder - it might have been to much
[17:59:56] <pcw_home> Is that the one with the MiniPCIE socket as well?
[18:00:28] <pcw_home> What CPU Skunkworks?
[18:00:43] <skunkworks> 330
[18:01:01] <Dave911> PCI express full mini card slot
[18:01:53] <sealive> are some american people here
[18:02:03] <pcw_home> contemplating making a cabled PCIE card for that (1mm PCB makes it a pain though)
[18:02:48] <Dave911> SWPadnos: Yep the one USB header is single channel, that is the USB flash Card port
[18:03:06] <Dave911> I didn't realize this board also had two com ports on it?
[18:03:15] <sealive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/150410200120_bush.png does this look like G.W.Bush
[18:03:15] <SWPadnos> oh, wait. is there a normal one plus the flash one, or just the flash one?
[18:03:43] <Dave911> One normal plus one single channel
[18:03:49] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:03:55] <SWPadnos> still one short for me :(
[18:04:01] <Dave911> So three channels in total on the headers for USB
[18:04:06] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:04:59] <Dave911> The D510 is a bit faster than the 330 but for many/most apps I doubt that the difference is noticable
[18:05:23] <skunkworks> Dave911: do you have a link?
[18:05:26] <Dave911> The fanless heat sink is nice though..
[18:05:37] <SWPadnos> http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboard/index.htm
[18:05:45] <Dave911> No, I just have the board sitting right here ...
[18:05:46] <SWPadnos> http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/D510MO/D510MO-overview.htm
[18:07:28] <Dave911> Not having a com port and a LPT port plug on the back of the MB is a pain in the butt
[18:07:45] <Dave911> I guess header are cheaper though..
[18:07:50] <skunkworks> 7 usb ports are not enough?
[18:07:55] <Dave911> headers..
[18:08:52] <sealive> what is the board for
[18:12:32] <Dave911> 8 USB ports on the Asus board .... the intel 330 board is out of stock at Newegg... but you probably knew that already..http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131396&cm_re=D945GCLF2-_-13-131-396-_-Product
[18:12:53] <Dave911> Get em while their hot!
[18:15:10] <skunkworks> heh - that looks identical to the intel one
[18:17:38] <SWPadnos> that is one tall looking heatsink :)
[18:18:14] <Dave911> If you google "D945GCLF2" there are still companies selling them in bulk 10 packs for about $800 per pack.... but you know that won't last ....
[18:18:24] <SWPadnos> yeah
[18:18:35] <SWPadnos> and I don't want to continue to have a design based on obsolete components
[18:18:35] <Dave911> Both newegg and tigerdirect are out ...
[18:18:39] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:18:57] <Dave911> yep....
[18:19:12] <skunkworks> * skunkworks hugs his 2 un-opened boxes.
[18:19:17] <Dave911> I wonder how long until the Asus board is gone also?
[18:19:25] <SWPadnos> I've got 2 more here as well :)
[18:19:29] <SWPadnos> yeah
[18:19:30] <Dave911> Put them under your pillow ......
[18:19:49] <SWPadnos> and what I need is actually two motherboard headers, which support USB2 on all 4 channels
[18:20:07] <SWPadnos> so the 8-port ASUS is exactly enough, just like the D945GCLF2
[18:20:57] <Dave911> If the 330 boards are selling so well you'd think they would keep making them ...
[18:21:28] <SWPadnos> I guess a lot of people (probably folks making HTPC or home servers) are going for the D510 instead
[18:21:44] <skunkworks> 2 x USB connectors support additional 4 USB ports
[18:22:23] <Dave911> Yes.. probably...
[18:23:18] <sealive> good night
[18:28:30] <Dave911> I have a Tech Data account for PC hardware and the Intel 330 boards are shown as being phased out .. not available.
[18:28:57] <Dave911> SWPadnos.. if you want more of those you better grab them up now... while you can...
[18:29:22] <SWPadnos> I think I can still get a few from Logic Supply
[18:29:29] <SWPadnos> (strangely, they're local to me)
[18:29:54] <SWPadnos> I'll have to bite the bullet and get something else at some point anyway, so I might as well start looking
[18:31:04] <Dave911> local... huh, that never happens to me...
[18:31:20] <SWPadnos> me either, that's why it's so strange
[18:31:35] <SWPadnos> and they're apparently one of the larger embedded systems suppliers out there
[18:32:12] <Dave911> It seems like they are pretty big .... although I don't think I have bought anything from them.. they have a nice website..
[18:32:31] <SWPadnos> yep. I ran into them at a local technology trade show
[18:32:46] <SWPadnos> turns out they have a warehouse just behind one of my main customers
[18:32:50] <Jymmm> Dave911: So does playboy, but not a site I'd look for a wife =)
[18:36:50] <Jymmm> Dave911: In other words.... Don't judge a company by it's website. Anyone can pay $500 for a nice looking website.
[18:42:06] <DaViruz> is there a good way to get analog inputs from a mesa 5i2* card?
[18:42:48] <cradek> do you mean analog into the mesa, or analog out of the mesa to something else?
[18:42:58] <DaViruz> analog into the mesa
[18:43:02] <DaViruz> i want to sample an analog signal
[18:43:12] <Dave911> http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/index.htm?iid=subhdr+prod_boards
[18:43:27] <cradek> I don't think so currently
[18:43:31] <Dave911> Intel has the 330 board listed as mature... not yet discontinued
[18:48:15] <Dave911> Jymmm... true, I used their website to look at boards and then I bought them elsewhere .... although I think they probably paid a little more than $500 for that website .... ;-)
[18:50:53] <Dave911> Mesa's THC board will take an analog input into a 5I20 board.... I think they have a 0-10v version... Or you could use a voltage to freq converter and run it into an encoder input..
[18:55:28] <morfic> 'morning
[19:01:08] <micges> hi
[19:02:46] <morfic> anyone in here buy from Minarik before?
[19:27:46] <mikegg> anybody here using a Smithy 622 ?
[19:28:04] <awallin> what is that? :)
[19:28:26] <mikegg> Chinese mill
[19:28:30] <EricKeller> is it an all-in-one?
[19:28:38] <mikegg> https://www.smithy.com/product_home.php?cid=11&scid=16&pid=1006
[19:28:49] <mikegg> nah, Smithy does make those
[19:29:06] <mikegg> I think this is imported and then Smithy adds controls / waycovers etc
[19:29:35] <mikegg> I just ordered one without steppers on X and Y
[19:29:53] <mikegg> I got some NEMA 34 BLDC i'm gonna install
[19:32:47] <mikegg> the steppers it comes with have 35 in-lbs peak torque
[19:32:52] <Jymmm> mikegg: Uh.... 850 in-POUNDS for Z axis?!?!
[19:33:03] <mikegg> the servos I got have 85 in-lbs :)
[19:33:08] <mikegg> no no
[19:33:14] <mikegg> in-ounces I believe
[19:33:22] <Jymmm> Yes yes yes, read the spec sheet =)
[19:33:44] <Jymmm> Stepper Motors (X, Y, Z Axis) 566 in-oz (X, Y Axis); 850 in-lb (Z Axis)
[19:33:49] <mikegg> yeah
[19:34:00] <Jymmm> in-lb <---- pounds
[19:34:44] <Jymmm> You have 220VAC ???
[19:36:29] <mikegg> well yes and no
[19:36:43] <mikegg> I will probably just use 120
[19:36:56] <Jymmm> It says it needs 220VAC
[19:36:59] <mikegg> I am not using their controller or anything
[19:37:11] <Jymmm> you're using their spindle, right?
[19:37:17] <mikegg> maybe the spindle does, but I think I will swap that out too
[19:37:46] <Jymmm> Wait, you're going to buy something BRAND NEW, then just start swapping out parts????
[19:37:48] <mikegg> I have a 2 hp motor at home with a VFD i would like to use
[19:37:56] <mikegg> nope!
[19:38:05] <mikegg> it was a demo / prototype
[19:38:20] <mikegg> I got it for a song...:)
[19:38:28] <Jymmm> so how much was this "demo" ?
[19:38:33] <Jymmm> $200?
[19:38:39] <mikegg> hehehh
[19:38:41] <mikegg> I wish
[19:39:00] <mikegg> the servo's were $275 alone
[19:50:33] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK_Mobile
[19:50:47] <EbiDK_Mobile> EbiDK_Mobile is now known as EbiDK
[19:50:59] <alex_joni> this is totally nuts
[19:51:02] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHWDSnWk2jU
[19:51:07] <alex_joni> (link from awallin)
[19:54:14] <Jymmm> Whats even MORE nuts, is someone bought it!
[20:11:39] <jimbo> What code would you add to the post to take the Z axis to the machine home position for tool changes?
[20:12:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what was that link that you gave of that helmet being cnc'ed?
[20:12:16] <SWPadnos> you add TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION to the ini file
[20:12:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:12:32] <SWPadnos> I don't remember, it was from a slashdot article
[20:12:34] <cradek> TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP
[20:12:44] <SWPadnos> oh, that may be even better
[20:12:51] <cradek> rtfm because there are many options for tool change clearance motion
[20:13:18] <jimbo> Thanks....
[20:13:23] <cradek> if you want to move Z all the way up IN GCODE you'd want like G0 G53 Z0
[20:13:38] <skunkworks> http://singularityhub.com/2010/04/05/5-axis-robot-carves-metal-like-butter-video
[20:13:38] <cradek> but like swp said, you don't need that
[20:14:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: found it. What you think that machine costs?
[20:14:30] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/pavicpqOq/ *bragging*
[20:14:34] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY
[20:14:35] <SWPadnos> loads
[20:14:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: $19.95? 19M?
[20:15:24] <SWPadnos> the Hydrapath CAM software alone costs as much as a nice imported sedan, according to Andy Pugh (or archivist, don't remember for sure)
[20:16:04] <bill2or3> plus yearly contract, probably.
[20:16:06] <SWPadnos> if I had to estimate, I'd say the machine is in the $200k range, maybe more if the work envelope was big
[20:16:13] <SWPadnos> maybe the $400k range, thinking about it
[20:16:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: That little?
[20:16:41] <SWPadnos> I don't really know
[20:17:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'd think at least $2M
[20:17:50] <SWPadnos> could be
[20:18:25] <archivist_attic> I will see hyper expensive cam at show next week probably
[20:20:37] <mikegg> I love how they don't even use coolant
[20:23:02] <atmega> any suggestions for starting points for feed/speeds for cutting plastics with a router?
[20:23:22] <Jymmm> 30,000RPM and 120IPM
[20:23:26] <atmega> heh
[20:24:18] <Jymmm> 30K RPM is to have a clean finish, and the 120IPM is to not melt the material.
[20:24:46] <atmega> I can only do 60ish IPM
[20:24:58] <atmega> that seems way too fast
[20:25:27] <Jymmm> what RPM?
[20:25:33] <atmega> 15-30k
[20:25:51] <Jymmm> material?
[20:25:54] <Jymmm> thickness?
[20:25:58] <atmega> that's what the box says anyway, it's a RotoZip(tm)
[20:26:13] <atmega> 1" HDPE
[20:26:22] <Jymmm> not gonna happen.
[20:26:45] <mikegg> what size cutter?
[20:26:46] <atmega> due to melting? or what?
[20:26:53] <atmega> I can buy whatever cutter
[20:26:56] <Jymmm> I have a 2.5HP spindle, just toss that glorified dremel out the window
[20:27:08] <atmega> I don't have to cut it in a single pass
[20:27:35] <Jymmm> Plastics are unique in that that the chips will melt make on to the cut surface.
[20:27:35] <mikegg> I would try one of those single flute end mills
[20:27:44] <mikegg> maybe 1/8" ?
[20:27:47] <Jymmm> more like 4 flute.
[20:27:56] <mikegg> ?
[20:27:57] <atmega> I have a 1/8" 2-flute
[20:28:09] <Jymmm> You'll REALLY need to clear those chips BIG TIME.
[20:28:15] <atmega> and a .2" something
[20:28:26] <atmega> how about acrylic/lexan/plexi/wtf?
[20:31:53] <mikegg> i dunno, i would try the 2 flute as fast as your machine can scoot. If it starts to melt, back down the speed on the router
[21:23:56] <skunkworks> andypugh: how is the hobbing going?
[21:24:50] <andypugh> Now it works, I am doing other things. Currently fiddling with an Arduino.
[21:25:16] <andypugh> Though my new ball-nut for the Z-slide upgrade appeard today.
[21:25:37] <skunkworks> nice.
[21:26:03] <skunkworks> I think I have a 'theory' of operation for the accupins.
[21:26:59] <andypugh> My Arduino project is an attempt at a Resolver interface, there might be some crossover.
[21:28:18] <andypugh> The accupin drive is two complementary square waves isn't it?
[21:28:52] <andypugh> Then measure the return amplitude, and do maths? Sounds trivial for an Arduino (or similar)
[21:28:55] <skunkworks> they run a square wave into the outside legs of the 2 center tapped coils... They take the 2 center taps and sum them (through a resister bridge) - this gets turned into a square wave. That square wave is in relation to the exciter square wave depending on the postion within the .1 diam pin.
[21:29:18] <JT-Hardinge> Yea! my new way covers are in
[21:30:01] <andypugh> Sounds easy.
[21:30:39] <skunkworks> So - I think they figured out the absolute postion of 1 pin by counting (using a 250khz clock) the distance between the rising edge of the exciter and the rising edge of the returned wave. That would give 250khz/250hz = 1000 divisions or .0001 resolution.
[21:32:07] <andypugh> That sounds rather unlikely. You mean time-of-flight?
[21:33:40] <andypugh> Incidentally, my Arduino code can solve arctans in 4uS, so the speed is close.
[21:33:53] <skunkworks> well - that is just a theory.. (I am pretty sure about the 2 square waves (reference vs returned) what they did with that is just a guess. Seemed plausable concidering the main clock was exactly 1000 times the accupin supply
[21:35:04] <andypugh> I would have thought that two relative amplitudes was more likely.
[21:35:37] <andypugh> But what you describe is easy enough to test out with a bit of analog input and maths
[21:36:04] <andypugh> Though 250kHz would be a struggle I think.
[21:36:40] <skunkworks> I don't think so. They excited the 2 coils and then summed the 2 center taps that then got turned into a square wave that was postion within the one pin (the square wave postion)
[21:37:06] <skunkworks> Yes - I plan on running some signals down it and see what it looks like.
[21:37:28] <andypugh> Aye, Oscilloscope seems like a good starting point.
[21:38:54] <skunkworks> They actually say - 'the phase is proportional to postion of 1 pin'
[21:39:28] <skunkworks> actually getting something to work is another matter... ;)
[21:39:55] <skunkworks> I would want to make a accupin -> quadature converter with index. ;)
[21:40:59] <andypugh> I think that once you have the analog side sorted out, the rest is just software.
[21:42:11] <andypugh> EMC2 PWM + Power Op-Amp sounds like a plausible signal source.
[21:42:19] <andypugh> Are the exciting waves in antiphase?
[21:42:38] <skunkworks> not exactly sure... yet
[21:43:01] <skunkworks> I think the circuit did some funky phase shifting for calibrating...
[21:43:03] <skunkworks> bbl
[22:01:09] <andypugh> I want to measure one voltage relative to another. I wonder if I can just connect one voltage to the AREF pin of an A-D converter and read the ratio directly?
[22:02:56] <bill2or3> maybe, if they're both <5v.
[22:03:17] <bill2or3> I'd check the atmega datasheet to see what the acceptable deviation from vcc/gnd is.
[22:04:54] <DaViruz> andypugh: no you can not
[22:05:00] <DaViruz> well, you can, but you won't get relative voltage
[22:05:27] <DaViruz> you'll just get the ratio
[22:05:29] <andypugh> I want voltage ratio.
[22:05:33] <DaViruz> oh
[22:05:50] <andypugh> Excitation in to primary, result out of secondary :-)
[22:07:06] <DaViruz> not sure about the frequency response of the Vref though
[22:07:19] <DaViruz> it might well be totaly useless for anything other than DC
[22:07:34] <andypugh> 1V minimum in the spec sheet anyway.
[22:07:44] <andypugh> I wonder what happens if I go lower?
[22:07:57] <andypugh> (Magic smoke escapes?)
[22:08:04] <bill2or3> no, just unreliable data.
[22:08:28] <bill2or3> if you need to read lower voltages, scale it up with an opamp first.
[22:09:39] <andypugh> I am wondering if there is a standard "compute the ratio of two voltages" analogue computing circuit
[22:09:44] <SWPadnos> andypugh, it may not work as you want. AVRef needs to be stable
[22:10:42] <andypugh> I assume that it samples MSB to LSB though, so as long as the rate of change is slow relative to the sample clock....
[22:32:53] <morficmobile> how is 1000 devisions .0001 resolution?
[22:33:42] <bill2or3> %0.0001 ?
[22:44:30] <morficmobile> 1/1000 is .001, just wondering where the extra 0 comes from
[22:47:42] <toastydeath> 10 tpi screw?
[22:49:56] <LawrenceG> 1000 divisions on 0.1" pin spacing
[22:50:49] <LawrenceG> gives resolution of 0.0001"
[23:08:34] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:09:47] <LawrenceG> logger_emc, bookmark
[23:09:47] <LawrenceG> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-04-15.txt
[23:36:36] <morficmobile> toastydeath: LawrenceG: thanks, i didn't see pitch mentioned around that comment, so it seemed pretty arbitrary to have 1000 divisions and .0001 resolution, the talk was about frequency when that came up
[23:42:19] <morficmobile> accupin, that's where it all started