#emc | Logs for 2010-04-05

[00:01:17] <pfred1> gene__ as junky as full upgrades may be they're a bit more graceful in Linux than some other OSes
[00:01:56] <Guest843> ec
[00:02:00] <pfred1> I can honestly say that today I don't miss my old setup at all and if I do I can just cd to it
[00:02:22] <Guest843> I dropped out for a sec
[00:02:31] <Guest843> did I miss much?
[00:02:38] <pfred1> Guest843 no
[00:02:53] <Guest843> any way to get what was said before logging on?
[00:03:06] <pfred1> there is a logger in the channel
[00:03:19] <pfred1> !logger_emc help
[00:03:29] <pfred1> !help logger_emc
[00:03:34] <pfred1> nope
[00:04:04] <cradek> gene__: jepler ran off to europe and asked me to build 2.3.5/6.06 and it's my own laziness that's caused it to not be done yet.
[00:04:15] <cradek> haha "the hardinge twins"
[00:04:37] <pfred1> cradek maybe the hardinge boys would be more apt?
[00:04:38] <cradek> I'll go work on it now, thanks for the kick
[00:04:45] <SWPadnos> logger_emc, bookmark
[00:04:45] <SWPadnos> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-04-05.txt
[00:04:48] <cradek> pfred1: that's a great name
[00:05:00] <pfred1> sort of like the hardy boys
[00:05:23] <pfred1> their machines kick ass!
[00:06:28] <pfred1> SWPadnos can yo uget older logs?
[00:06:41] <SWPadnos> yes, they're all in that directory
[00:06:57] <SWPadnos> and they're part of the site search on linuxcnc.org
[00:09:39] <Guest843> just change the date
[00:11:09] <Guest843> does anyone know of things that can be done with mach that EMC can not do?
[00:11:32] <cradek> I don't think anyone here is an expert with both softwares
[00:11:36] <Guest843> I found a threading sample that EMC did that mach could never do
[00:11:53] <pfred1> Guest843 you can spend money
[00:11:59] <cradek> frankly I think a better question is which one does everything you need
[00:12:53] <Guest843> one thing I would love to do is CNC with robo arm feed system
[00:13:02] <pfred1> a puma?
[00:13:54] <Guest843> I love that EMC does 9 axis
[00:14:09] <Guest843> one I build and design
[00:14:30] <pfred1> Guest843 hexapods make me dizzy
[00:14:50] <Guest843> also EMC does robot arm controles I read
[00:15:03] <Guest843> what is hexapods?
[00:15:36] <pfred1> Guest843 http://www.bg-cnc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/img_4416.jpg
[00:15:40] <tlab> 8 legged spider?
[00:15:48] <skunkworks> emc can rigid tap.
[00:16:25] <Guest843> would one be able to tie multi EMC units together so one would machine the part and anouther would run the feed arm and have them work together?
[00:16:41] <tom3p> google stewart platform ( some one sat on 'hexapod' for goofy crawler toys )
[00:16:43] <tlab> err 6 legged pod
[00:17:07] <cradek> Guest843: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HLKXeWqTF0
[00:17:29] <robotito> pfred1, machine function?
[00:19:38] <Guest843> cool
[00:19:51] <Guest843> what spindle did he use for that?
[00:19:57] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLKR6RrhGJs&NR=1
[00:20:32] <cradek> Guest843: you mean my video? the spindle is a regular AC motor controlled by a regular VFD
[00:20:42] <pfred1> cool you can use a hexapod to mix punch!
[00:21:14] <Guest843> some guy did rigid tapping with mach but cheated, he put a stepper motor with belt drive direct to spindle and used that
[00:21:41] <cradek> yeah that's not going to work on my machine, it is 5hp :-)
[00:22:09] <pfred1> cradek but can your machine mix punch?
[00:22:15] <cradek> oh surely so
[00:22:36] <cradek> just put it in the sump and turn the coolant on
[00:22:43] <Guest843> lol
[00:23:20] <mozmck> yum
[00:23:32] <pfred1> cradek shaken, not stirred!
[00:23:40] <cradek> gene__: I should have the release ready shortly... it's building now
[00:23:42] <Guest843> do not mind the coolent fluid
[00:24:47] <pfred1> Ok now I've seen it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quN37YskoaM&feature=fvw
[00:24:59] <Guest843> is there a quick and easy way to referance someone
[00:25:21] <Guest843> like cradek:
[00:25:31] <Guest843> and not have to type it?
[00:25:40] <pfred1> Guest843 type cra then hit tab
[00:25:40] <skunkworks> cr<tab>
[00:26:03] <pfred1> Guest843 but i use copy paste in an xterm :)
[00:26:24] <mozmck> does the tab completion work for most irc clients?
[00:26:37] <skunkworks> usually
[00:26:45] <pfred1> mozmck it should or get a real IRC client
[00:27:03] <mozmck> :) I use pidgin.
[00:27:14] <pfred1> irsii here
[00:27:20] <skunkworks> even this java irc client on linuxcnc.org has tab compleat
[00:27:26] <skunkworks> complete
[00:27:44] <Guest843> I am using the web based one on the EMC site
[00:27:48] <skunkworks> heh - tab complete. that isn't right
[00:28:03] <Guest843> tried the tab abd cr tab and nothing
[00:28:04] <skunkworks> Guest843: we can tell.
[00:28:13] <skunkworks> try page down
[00:28:24] <pfred1> Guest843 try /nick <somename>
[00:29:35] <pfred1> man that last video was awesome I thought those things were just toys in still pics of them
[00:29:49] <pfred1> that gives a whole new meaning to IPM
[00:33:42] <pfred1> I want to know what software this guy is running
[00:35:47] <Guest843> what is complete?
[00:35:59] <Guest843> tried page down
[00:35:59] <skunkworks> pg dn
[00:36:02] <skunkworks> hmm
[00:36:15] <skunkworks> then I don't know - both tab and page down work here.
[00:36:41] <Guest843> I am using fire fox
[00:36:49] <Guest843> that may be why
[00:36:53] <skunkworks> ie here
[00:39:29] <mozmck> ie? choke gag ;)
[00:40:07] <skunkworks> I get that responce a lot
[00:40:17] <Guest843> lol
[00:40:39] <Guest843> I use both
[00:40:53] <Guest843> FF is my first goto
[00:41:03] <Guest843> but IE if needed
[00:41:07] <pfred1> * pfred1 is a seamonkey fan
[00:41:27] <Guest843> I have SM on one of mine as well
[00:41:43] <Guest843> use it for mail and stuff
[00:41:47] <mozmck> :) I never have used IE. I used it to test a few websites back in 1998-9, but I used Netscape back then full time.
[00:42:22] <mozmck> I was using mozilla until firefox came out. what is better about seamonkey?
[00:42:39] <mozmck> Guest843: what's SM?
[00:42:42] <pfred1> its more like netscape was
[00:42:47] <skunkworks> sea monkey
[00:42:56] <mozmck> oh, duh!
[00:43:04] <pfred1> i don't really like firefox
[00:43:22] <Guest843> what one do you like better?
[00:43:28] <Guest843> I love FF
[00:43:32] <mozmck> Isn't seamonkey basically firefox and thunderbird packaged together?
[00:43:41] <pfred1> somehow its my default browser so it pops up every now and again but I don't care for it really
[00:44:03] <pfred1> it may be but it just seems different to me
[00:44:37] <pfred1> this guy is a total nut it looks like he wrote his own OS to run this machine
[00:44:50] <Guest843> there are some differances between FF/TB and SM
[00:46:03] <Guest843> your talking the hexapod?
[00:46:22] <pfred1> Guest843 yeah its pretty cheap
[00:46:37] <Guest843> I was wondering what he used to get it to dance like that
[00:46:48] <Guest843> I think it is very cool
[00:47:02] <pfred1> Guest843 did yo usee the one that walked and carved?
[00:47:09] <Guest843> that could be one cool tool in the right place
[00:47:22] <Guest843> one could almost base a movie on it
[00:47:23] <Guest843> lol
[00:47:35] <Guest843> yes
[00:47:44] <Guest843> that was the one I was talking about
[00:47:55] <pfred1> yeah that is seriously messed up
[00:48:12] <pfred1> http://www.hexapodrobot.com/index.html
[00:49:50] <Guest843> did he hand code all that?
[00:50:11] <pfred1> well he's not giving any credit anywhere to anyone else that I can find
[00:50:22] <Guest843> and to carve out the face, he must have used some program
[00:50:25] <pfred1> but i find it rather difficult to believe its not based on something
[00:50:43] <Guest843> me to
[00:50:46] <pfred1> I mean when does this guy sleep if he's capable of doing all of this?
[00:50:50] <Guest843> all I can say is
[00:50:59] <Guest843> I want I want I want
[00:51:00] <Guest843> lol
[00:51:15] <pfred1> yeah i had no idea people were doing stuff quite like that
[00:51:20] <Guest843> freak out some friend
[00:51:26] <pfred1> I thought those things were just toys
[00:51:31] <Guest843> me to
[00:51:50] <Guest843> but to walk to x place and start carving away
[00:51:56] <pfred1> then i figured it must be tethered but now it looks like it completely stands alone!
[00:51:57] <Guest843> that is just to cool
[00:52:16] <Guest843> I looked to a wire
[00:52:20] <pfred1> yeah i have to say I am impressed
[00:52:21] <Guest843> did not see one
[00:54:13] <Guest843> build a big one and have it walk over and mix the punch
[00:54:43] <pfred1> sort of gives the term amaze your friends a whole new meaning don't it?
[00:54:54] <Guest843> lol
[00:55:06] <Guest843> they would not soon forget
[00:55:32] <Guest843> have it carve something after the mixing is done
[00:55:36] <pfred1> yeah its making me feel like my project is nothing in comparison
[00:55:55] <Guest843> and it is so small
[00:56:14] <pfred1> it seems a really nice size
[00:56:21] <pfred1> about the size of a small cat
[00:57:06] <pfred1> all I can say is they didn't have stuff quite like it when I was a kid!
[00:57:23] <Guest843> lol
[00:57:27] <Guest843> for sure
[00:57:38] <Guest843> there is so much more now days
[00:57:55] <Guest843> I loved the sears catalog
[00:58:17] <Guest843> I would dream of some of the toy there
[00:58:35] <pfred1> the human race can put up a going out of business sign any day now
[00:58:42] <Guest843> now they are nothing when compared to now days
[00:59:46] <Guest843> pfred1: what is your project?
[00:59:46] <pfred1> I htink there was some youtube trickery going on though because he stopped it to clear the chips and how could he have done that without a tethered control?
[01:00:02] <pfred1> Guest843 I'm just building a 3 axis CNC machine
[01:00:07] <Guest843> remote
[01:00:10] <pfred1> right now I'm just doing the electronics
[01:00:18] <pfred1> oh like wireless?
[01:00:25] <Guest843> blue tooth or some other wireless controle
[01:00:28] <pfred1> that is still a tether of sorts
[01:00:49] <pfred1> so really it isn't all brains on board there is another machine running it
[01:01:12] <pfred1> its still damned impressive though
[01:01:20] <Guest843> yep
[01:01:22] <Guest843> me to
[01:02:00] <Guest843> my mill is 4 axis and want to add number 5
[01:02:17] <Guest843> also have one more mill and one more lathe todo
[01:02:55] <Guest843> want tp add a second spindle to the one lathe and have both mills able to run 5 axis
[01:03:00] <pfred1> like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EYaM4FkASA&feature=PlayList&p=AD8F07E8E1383710&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=57
[01:03:47] <Guest843> sort of but differant
[01:04:26] <pfred1> I've been consumed with making motor drivers
[01:05:02] <pfred1> so far I've made one OK unipolar one now i want to take a shot at making bipolar ones
[01:05:28] <Guest843> cool, I design and build electronic things
[01:05:33] <pfred1> I found a sweet chip to base my driver on
[01:05:44] <pfred1> things are dirt cheap and do everything
[01:05:51] <Guest843> so why build when you can buy so cheap
[01:06:10] <pfred1> ah because the cheap ones look pretty limited in their functionality
[01:06:23] <pfred1> I can build a better one for cheaper still
[01:06:35] <pfred1> well better for me
[01:06:41] <Guest843> what chip do you want to use?
[01:07:13] <pfred1> a TB6560AHQ
[01:07:33] <cradek> gene__: 2.3.5 release for 6.06 is done.
[01:07:45] <Guest843> in the real low amp low voltage version you can build cheaply, but when you get into the higher amp and volts it is way easier to just buy
[01:07:55] <Guest843> you make chips way faster that way
[01:08:03] <pfred1> it'll do 3.5A a phase at 40V
[01:08:27] <tlab> ppl have made boards for those chips
[01:08:34] <pfred1> tlab I know :0
[01:08:44] <tlab> pfred1, you wanting speed or torque?
[01:08:57] <pfred1> tlab a happy medium
[01:09:16] <tlab> I have a 32V 2.5A system and it's slow for my taste
[01:09:21] <pfred1> good torque at a fair speed would be fine by me I don't see needing to go over 600 RPM
[01:09:25] <tlab> but I'm milling pcb's so that's part of it
[01:09:36] <tlab> and I think the step motors are crap
[01:09:51] <pfred1> how many wires?
[01:10:04] <tlab> 6wire, running with 4
[01:10:04] <pfred1> 4? 6? 8?
[01:10:19] <pfred1> ah yes 6 wires are the toughest to get best performance out of
[01:10:33] <tlab> they have more torque than I really need
[01:10:44] <pfred1> my last driver uses 6 sire motors all 6 wires
[01:10:58] <pfred1> 6 wire even
[01:11:07] <tlab> I guess chopper driver circuits would be better, but I'm not sure
[01:11:13] <pfred1> I built it based on an SLA7026M
[01:11:20] <pfred1> yeah its a chopper
[01:11:31] <tlab> sla7026 is chopper?
[01:11:40] <pfred1> the 7062 or 72 even would be better choices today
[01:11:40] <tlab> that a freescale chip?
[01:11:45] <pfred1> allegro
[01:11:51] <tlab> ah
[01:11:53] <pfred1> allegro is nice for unipolars
[01:12:00] <tlab> I'm using 3979
[01:12:13] <pfred1> their bipolar offerings leave a bit to be desired for me though
[01:12:34] <tlab> A3979 is what I use but the voltage rating max of 35V sucks
[01:12:51] <pfred1> I'm running my motor on 23V and its performing well
[01:13:12] <pfred1> it'll run good torque up to almost 1000 RPM
[01:13:39] <pfred1> I've freewheeled it to 2500
[01:13:59] <tlab> this place looks like it makes good steppers and you can get them custom ordered
[01:14:00] <pfred1> but of course you breathe on it and it stalls at that speed
[01:14:02] <tlab> http://www.linengineering.com/LinE/
[01:15:04] <pfred1> yeah where to get motors reasonable is a challenge
[01:15:23] <pfred1> who did i just see that had tons of lin motors?
[01:18:33] <pfred1> tlab http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/category/154
[01:19:52] <tlab> dang those are cheap
[01:20:02] <pfred1> hey would i steer you wrong?
[01:20:59] <pfred1> yeah for steppers they're about the best i seen lately
[01:21:22] <pfred1> I may even have to belly up a little cash to them some time in the near future
[01:23:41] <pfred1> these looks pretty nice: http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/item/28M066/154/Lin-Engineering-5718X-01E-01-bipolar-stepper-motor
[01:23:56] <pfred1> 8 wire gives the most options for connections
[01:24:27] <tlab> yea
[01:24:52] <pfred1> a fleabay chisler would probably want to soak you $30 for a similar item
[01:26:36] <pfred1> my plan is to use more smaller motors on each axis for power
[01:27:21] <pfred1> if things work out with these chips I'm getting i should be able to build motor drivers for around $10 a shot
[01:27:25] <tom3p> look for those hayden's with the moving shaft , but get long ones for a tiny hexapod (motor just turns nut, leadscrew doesnt rotate, but moves in & out of motor)
[01:29:10] <pfred1> tom3p I saw a demo video I wish I could remember where of this linear motion thing this one guy built it was awesome!
[01:34:27] <tom3p> they became a buzz item in machine tools a few years back, not bad not a panacea, can have wicked acceleration, but thermals need to watched
[01:35:36] <pfred1> yeah it was deadly fast
[01:36:22] <pfred1> thing looked like a linear rail that movedo n its own you must know what I'm talking about
[01:36:51] <tom3p> like the slide IS the motor yah
[01:37:35] <pfred1> yes
[01:37:49] <tlab> I think baldor has one of those
[01:38:20] <pfred1> video I can remember watching looked like an inventor sort did it but was doing a start up of it
[01:38:21] <tlab> linear motor it's called
[01:39:42] <tlab> http://www.baldormotion.com/products/linearproducts/lsg.asp
[01:41:12] <tom3p> a guy at the fablab had a vid of him riding it, like chill wills in dr. strangelove. fablab has changed alot but still good info http://fab.cba.mit.edu/content/tools/
[01:50:23] <tom3p> slim pickens, sorry http://www.hkhinc.com/newmexico/albuquerque/doomsday/pickens.jpg
[01:54:37] <tlab> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOCmoYU6h1Q this guy?
[01:56:02] <pfred1> tom3p great movie
[01:57:37] <pfred1> tlab that was a great moment in human de-evolution
[01:57:46] <tom3p> tlab no, but thats classic stupidity
[01:57:49] <tlab> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCKiRcp-97k&NR=1
[01:58:07] <pfred1> tom3p I was waiting for brain soup on the concrete floor
[01:59:18] <tlab> ya that is scary sh*t
[02:08:38] <tlab> pfred1, that one stepper is rated at 2.8V ?
[02:28:32] <pfred1> I don't even see what voltage ratings with stepper motors mean anymore or what purpose they serve other than to simply confuse
[02:57:37] <skunkworks> KimK: how is it going?
[03:01:41] <KimK> Hi Sam, not too bad, hope you and yours had a happy Easter. I've been following your occasional picture postings, nice. I liked the big Gettys servomotor that was full of goo. John and I would like to visit you but we don't know when would be good for us, and I imagine you guys don't know when would be good for you. So it will remain on the round tuit list for now, I guess.
[03:02:50] <cradek> I can't wait to see all you guys again in june
[03:05:34] <KimK> Hi Chris, yeah, me too, hope I can make it. I didn't send in my early "save $25" (was it?) appl, I guess if I can make it at all, $25 more won't be a problem. Or I'll be staying home (or here) broke.
[03:05:40] <skunkworks> :)
[03:06:08] <skunkworks> well - that smile wasn't timed right
[03:06:25] <KimK> Haha, sure it was
[03:06:45] <cradek> yeah I called up and paid on the last day. I wasn't too happy about paying it either, but I bet they have done a lot of work to set it up.
[03:07:30] <cradek> (but frankly I enjoy the emc-only gatherings more)
[03:09:11] <skunkworks> KimK: yes - that sounds good (round to it) we would like to get the big k&t moving first.
[03:09:48] <skunkworks> going well so far - trying to dive into ladder - starting with something easy (tool chain)
[03:10:48] <KimK> Yes, after Roland's 2008 and Stuart's 2009 (both great, IMO), I'm a little unsure of the whole community college venue where the biggest machine is likely to be a Bridgeport (manual? gaah!) and special arrangements have to be made for anything over 120VAC 15A. But we'll see.
[03:11:54] <cradek> KimK: yeah I don't think there will be interesting projects there.
[03:13:23] <cradek> I guess I could bring my 5 axis toy if someone wants to work on joint constraints/joints-axes
[03:13:52] <KimK> skunkworks: Did I ever mention I used to service a pair of K&T 200's for a customer? Yours is similar, what, one model change older? I might be able to help if you run into problems.
[03:14:41] <skunkworks> this is a IIIb - never had a really good understanding of the k&t models
[03:15:27] <skunkworks> do remember what the 200 used for scales?
[03:17:54] <KimK> they had been retrofitted with a Dynapath control and somebody's AC brushless servos (brand escapes me right now), and a 10HP(?) induction motor and vector drive. Yeah, they got rid of the ring switches, I think they just put the tools in the chain in order, and it just went to the "next" tool. Encoder follower outputs from the AC servos, I think.
[03:18:59] <skunkworks> heh - that is way too new ;)
[03:19:00] <KimK> ... from the AC servos --> ... from the AC servo drives
[03:19:33] <jimbo> When selecting MDI using the axis interface halui.MDI.is-on does not change does somthing need to be set to make this happen?
[03:20:56] <KimK> But of course all the original hydraulic baloney had to stay there, arm to 0 deg/70 deg, arm to 0 deg/180 deg, arm in/out, etc., etc.
[03:23:00] <cradek> haha 'hydraulic baloney'
[03:23:14] <KimK> I don't really know what the K&T 200 originally used for scales, never saw one in original condition, LOL.
[03:23:16] <cradek> so glad mine doesn't have a hydraulic pump I'd have to listen to
[03:24:55] <KimK> cradek: yeah, they used to keep plenty of bags of "oil-dry" handy. The thing seeped at a very low rate, but pretty much from every seal, hose, and shaft it had, so those drops add up.
[03:25:15] <cradek> blech
[03:28:10] <cradek> KimK: do you ever get to lincoln anymore or are you still in MN?
[03:28:21] <cradek> or was it IA :-)
[03:28:34] <cradek> I know you're relatively near, but that's all I remember...
[03:31:36] <KimK> Sam, "my" K&T's never got a spindle encoder as part of the retrofit, supposedly too inconvenient, difficult, expensive (pick one) to add a spindle encoder. But I always thought it might be lack of creativity, expertise, money (pick one) and maybe it's possible to add one. Have you come up with any good ideas along these lines?
[03:35:41] <KimK> cradek: Still in MN, but will have to return to NE for a short stay before too long. Not enough electronic work in IA lately (barely enough machine work) so not there much recently.
[03:40:27] <KimK> cradek: I saw your sale of a Bridgeport to Seb, congrats to you both. I actually considered (still am, really) offering to visit you and Seb when he loads and unloads in exchange for some "intro to developer" tutoring from you guys. But I haven't mentioned it to either of you until now, so I don't know if either of you would be interested.
[03:42:01] <cradek> He's like an expectant father - and I'm really glad he's getting it.
[03:42:13] <cradek> we've got the move all planned out - I think it'll go fine.
[03:42:30] <cradek> I'd like to visit with you anytime you get back down here - just let me know.
[03:43:31] <Jymmm> cradek: Yo should get a powder blue ribbon that says "It's a Boy" and hang around it
[03:44:10] <cradek> I'd like sometime to buy an hour of your expertise (and maybe a lunch!) if you'd have a listen to my X axis - it's not right, and I don't feel like I know what to do about it - could use your thoughts.
[03:45:03] <cradek> Jymmm: or those nasty candy cigars?
[03:47:56] <KimK> I still have John's US digital four-input quadrature encoder input board, I plan to get the encoder cables for it soon so I can have it for show-and-tell (or "developer tutoring 102?") at the fest. Don't worry, I don't plan to push it off on anybody, LOL. I think I can modify the existing driver for EMC2, if I had more orientation and basic background info on things.
[03:48:44] <cradek> you're wanting to make a driver for it?
[03:49:21] <KimK> cradek: sure, I'd be happy to listen. I'll keep you posted on my return plans as soon as I figure out what they are.
[03:52:26] <KimK> there is a "linux" driver for it, but I think (ASSume?) it's a general-purpose data-acquisition type driver, and not ready for RTAI real time kernel, etc.? But there is that starting place at least.
[03:52:51] <cradek> yeah that may be a very useful starting point, especially if you don't have good documentation
[03:53:10] <cradek> assuming you have the source?
[03:54:36] <KimK> If it was just for handwheels and knobs, I'd say fine, whatever, but John (and I) want to use it to add a spindle encoder input, so "therein lies the problem", as they say. (Do they say that?)
[03:55:52] <KimK> * KimK suddenly wonders if you could do synchronized threading on a mill, hmmm.....
[03:56:07] <cradek> of course you can...
[03:56:17] <KimK> Cool!
[03:56:48] <cradek> the first "lathe" to cut a thread with emc was my desktop mill
[03:58:27] <cradek> at first it seems like a driver that just reads encoders would be pretty simple - but sign extension and index handling are the two sticky parts to deal with
[03:59:20] <KimK> re being first, excellent, congratulations! (Although granted, you probably wouldn't be able to chuck a huge part in a mill, but nevermind. )
[04:00:01] <cradek> I wrote lathe threading when I didn't have a cnc lathe - I had to do something - it makes a terrible lathe :-)
[04:00:55] <cradek> hey look, here it is, even: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?SpindleSynchronizedMotion
[04:01:14] <cradek> the spindle ran out of power, so I couldn't finish the thread
[04:03:36] <KimK> Why did the spindle run out of power? (Hmm, this sounds vaguely like some kind of joke line, "Why did the spindle cross the road?") Oh, you mean it didn't have enough horsepower, OK.
[04:03:54] <cradek> yeah, tiny motor
[04:04:33] <KimK> What did you have for a "threading bar" fastened to the table?
[04:04:58] <cradek> just a lathe tool on its side, sticking out the side of the vise
[04:05:42] <cradek> can you already program in C?
[04:07:24] <KimK> OK, sounds good. Hey as long as we're reviewing old times, what ever happened with Stuart's long Magnascale, I heard he was able to get another head assembly, but not sure after that.
[04:08:01] <cradek> he still doesn't have it working, last I heard. But the rest of the machine is coming along. I think they made some new bladders for it when they couldn't fix the originals.
[04:12:23] <KimK> Well, I haven't learned C yet, always wanted to. But I used to do a lot of embedded systems programming so I'm hoping it will be an easy transition. I'd also like to learn C++ but if that's not used in the RT/RTAI/driver part of EMC2, then fine, it can wait. Maybe just as well, I'll have a full plate, LOL.
[04:13:56] <cradek> if you want to write a driver in june, now would be a good time to start learning to do basic stuff in C. You can edit your source with any editor, and compile it at the command line with "gcc -o myprogram myfile.c" and then run it: ./myprogram
[04:14:08] <KimK> Of course I would appreciate any advice you have for me on this, as you are one of the GLA's on this!
[04:15:16] <cradek> I bet you can find introductory C all over the internet - but hard to say if you can find good - there's always "The C Programming Language" which is the definitive intro/reference, but for a little book it's surprisingly expensive. library maybe?
[04:16:14] <cradek> if you're already a low-level programmer in another language you'll have no trouble. there are pointers, there's some various syntax, ... you know, programming stuff
[04:17:01] <KimK> Well, I don't *have to* write the driver in June (at the fest), but that would be kind of cool to be working on a software project for a change and have all you experts handy to help when (not if) I get stuck.
[04:17:32] <cradek> yeah there won't be hardware - software is what we'll want to work on... a project like that could be fun.
[04:17:53] <KimK> I think I have that "C" book, may be an older edition, is that OK?
[04:18:10] <KimK> or is there something I should watch out for?
[04:18:19] <cradek> you definitely want the 2nd edition with the "ANSI C" thing on it
[04:19:39] <cradek> even that one's out of date since we have C99 now, but it's OK since the differences are minor.
[04:20:34] <cradek> the 2nd (ansi) edition documents C89, 1st ed. is pre-89 and that is quite incompatible with the modern language
[04:25:46] <KimK> OK, I'll check and get the right book if I don't already have it. (Or are there any good free PDF books?) But I can't go to the fest with the idea of doing this unless I get educated on a lot of real basic stuff first. I need to learn how to use git (read-only is OK), but I need to know how to do all the multi-version-simultaneously tricks and so forth. I need to master the Gnu tool set, make, run-in-place, whatever, all that stuff. I have a general idea wha
[04:25:47] <KimK> t's supposed to be going on but I'm still too much of a noob.
[04:25:50] <KimK> OK, I'll check and get the right book if I don't already have it. (Or are there any good free PDF books?) But I can't go to the fest with the idea of doing this unless I get educated on a lot of real basic stuff first. I need to learn how to use git (read-only is OK), but I need to know how to do all the multi-version-simultaneously tricks and so forth. I need to master the Gnu tool set, make, run-in-place, whatever, all that stuff. I have a general idea wha
[04:25:50] <KimK> t's supposed to be going on but I'm still too much of a noob.
[04:25:56] <KimK> So you see, that's why I am so interested in getting some introductory tutoring from you and/or Seb before (long before?) the fest.
[04:26:10] <KimK> Bah, that didn't work at all, LOL
[04:27:07] <cradek> you don't have to master all that stuff. you can get the source and build it run-in-place following step-by-step instructions on the wiki. After that you can jump right to the programming part...
[04:27:50] <KimK> really?
[04:28:04] <cradek> sometimes a new programmer will think they need to understand the entire project before making any change or adding any little thing - that is a sure way to fail to get started on anything - don't fall into that trap
[04:29:00] <cradek> this is a great page - here's how to get the souce: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_6_06_or_8_04_from_source
[04:29:28] <KimK> OK, well, I'd rather be lucky than good, I always say.
[04:29:40] <cradek> then to build it run-in-place: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Building_emc2_realtime
[04:30:47] <cradek> (I bet there are some files in emc I haven't ever even looked in...)
[04:30:58] <cradek> I need to get to bed - end of weekend is definitely here.
[04:32:21] <KimK> OK, thanks, I'll definitely bookmark these and study them later. Thanks for your advice, as always. If you think of anything please write it and I'll scroll back later. I leave the screen open for that reason. We'll talk of this again. Thanks!
[04:33:45] <cradek> you're welcome - goodnight
[05:02:24] <Jymmm> cradek: heh
[07:12:36] <archivist> Jymmm, that printer I mentioned was the CX 80 http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wD0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=integrex+cx80+colour+printer&source=bl&ots=3JWaCa12Xs&sig=14nJjsN10pP2qtmdApxRDqG45Rw&hl=en&ei=H9m4S-D5JJH1Od_p1aEL&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=integrex%20cx80%20colour%20printer&f=false
[07:12:52] <archivist> 1981 a while ago!
[07:55:38] <L84Supper> anyone ever work with the windows TwinCAT automation software by Beckhoff?
[08:57:23] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:23:49] <alex_joni> howdy
[09:37:28] <Valen> zup
[10:17:56] <sealive> Hi 5min to shuttle lanch in lflorida
[10:20:49] <sealive> 1min to go
[10:20:57] <MrSunshine__> url
[10:20:58] <MrSunshine__> ?
[10:21:09] <sealive> http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1368163
[10:21:20] <MrSunshine__> "makeplaylist.dll"
[10:21:21] <MrSunshine__> how nice
[10:21:23] <sealive> or spaceflight now
[10:21:25] <MrSunshine__> windows shit
[10:21:43] <MrSunshine__> it just wants to download the dll file
[10:21:51] <sealive> liftoff
[10:36:47] <frallzor> If I have the files from another persons emc2 config and want to edit settings and such via stepconf and keep the custon changes in the file, how to do that?
[10:37:41] <sealive> if you go over stepconf you will lose everything its overritten!
[10:38:05] <frallzor> even the custom edits?
[10:38:35] <sealive> i thing its regeretad to the normal
[10:38:37] <acemi> there are custom.hal and custom_postgui.hal files. I think these are not edited by stepconf
[10:38:56] <sealive> i lose my default editor when ever i use stepconf
[10:39:13] <frallzor> well I found these files from a guy that did a custom touch off for axis
[10:39:25] <frallzor> and the files are configured for his mill
[10:39:44] <frallzor> inch, other pins for stuffs etc etc
[10:40:05] <sealive> make a copy of them and try out
[10:40:43] <acemi> and with diff command, you can see the difference between two files
[10:41:10] <frallzor> I have copies of them but I wanted to edit them by hand, but its shitluck it seems
[10:41:23] <frallzor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62423 this stuff I want working with my setup
[10:41:31] <frallzor> for anyone interested =)
[10:43:04] <El_Matarife> The new hotness for Mach3 is the webcam guided setup IIRC
[10:43:54] <El_Matarife> Other option is, stick some rare earth magnets on your Z-axis and use hall effect sensors for homing switches
[10:45:16] <sealive> El_Matarife: i user this
[10:45:33] <sealive> but its not as korrect as a switch
[10:47:07] <El_Matarife> How do you use the sensors then?
[10:48:07] <JT-Dev> dang that is an old post
[10:48:21] <sealive> i got back to switches i home for every part ,sometimes twice for cutting and drilling
[10:48:35] <frallzor> JT-Dev yeah but best info I could find =)
[10:48:46] <frallzor> is it implemented since then?
[10:48:55] <sealive> and i got diffrences as i used magnetic_sensors
[10:52:06] <JT-Dev> frallzor: is what implemented?
[10:52:15] <frallzor> or you didnt mean my link? =P
[10:52:55] <JT-Dev> the link is 2008 yea
[10:53:19] <frallzor> yeah but a touch off that sets the Z automagically, not implemented in emc afaik?
[10:53:38] <frallzor> with a probe of somekind that is, in my case, touch off plate
[10:53:59] <JT-Dev> I touch off Z on my plasma automagiclly for every cut
[10:54:23] <frallzor> care to tell how? =)
[10:54:36] <frallzor> or point me in the right direction
[10:54:40] <JT-Dev> looking
[10:59:14] <JT-Dev> I use a probe move and have a floating head with a micro switch. The probe move stops when the switch trips. Then I move up to a known distance and set I think a G43
[10:59:28] <JT-Dev> but that is out in the shop and I can't see that computer from here
[11:00:15] <frallzor> hmm might have to do it manually then, cant be that hard, or well its easy :P
[11:00:29] <frallzor> it will stop when in contact right?
[11:00:36] <JT-Dev> yea
[11:00:37] <sealive> yes
[11:00:50] <JT-Dev> for a touch off plate make it spring supported
[11:00:51] <El_Matarife> Tell me about your plasma torch
[11:00:52] <frallzor> I know the height if my touch off plate so just move down Z, it stops, touch off the height?
[11:01:05] <El_Matarife> How much was it and could I use it on a fairly standard table or do I need a water bed
[11:01:30] <JT-Dev> unless your outside you will want a water table
[11:02:39] <El_Matarife> How deep of a water table is generally recommended?
[11:02:54] <sealive> 5mm
[11:03:10] <JT-Dev> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/
[11:03:26] <sealive> if your head is at least 1cm
[11:03:29] <JT-Dev> mine is about 3" deep
[11:04:54] <sealive> are these geckodrives?
[11:05:12] <JT-Dev> 203v's
[11:08:07] <El_Matarife> Yeah I was going to say they look just like mine so I bet they're 203Vs
[11:09:47] <El_Matarife> http://www.lascolinascnc.com/2010/03/14/yep-were-running/ that's my machine. I wonder if I could just make some sort of "bolt on" acrylic sides for the spoilboard, and a baseplate
[11:10:09] <El_Matarife> But I'm not sure if I want superhot plasma running around my buddies garage
[11:12:14] <sealive> you shoud work for OCC cutting Logo's
[11:15:10] <El_Matarife> OCC?
[11:15:32] <sealive> orange county choppers
[11:15:45] <sealive> Teutels best bike builder
[11:18:27] <sealive> http://orangecountychoppers.com/
[11:18:40] <sealive> you may now thes guys
[11:19:51] <JT-Dev> this is my chopper http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/HPIM1988.jpg
[11:22:40] <sealive> oh honda in the us Harly patriotisem see the Flag in the backround
[11:25:25] <sealive> i go outside it's a nice day in Ramstein Germany
[11:33:10] <frallzor> JT-Dev it works fine with just prope and manual jog =)
[11:33:13] <frallzor> *probe
[11:33:29] <JT-Dev> cool
[11:34:24] <frallzor> repeatability of 0.013mm
[11:34:28] <frallzor> its not bad
[11:38:25] <frallzor> 0,00052 inches
[11:38:59] <JT-Dev> that's damm good in my book
[11:39:16] <frallzor> good enough for this =)
[11:39:24] <frallzor> could have been worse too and be accepted
[13:27:07] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:27:07] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-04-05.txt
[13:27:53] <Jymmm> skunkworks: need any apx 4" x 1.5" energy chain?
[13:30:02] <skunkworks> heh - Not at the moment. (and I am trying not to be a horder)
[13:30:40] <Jymmm> skunkworks: It's brand new (surplus), I *think* it was $1/yard
[13:31:51] <skunkworks> KimK: passed out last night (tired not drunk) - There is a lot of space in the spindle - I could see them saying it was hard. (we are going to mount it on the collet release end - it doesn't move very far and that is what belts are for) ;)
[13:49:44] <skunkworks> Jymmm: $1 a yard? energy chain? are we talking about the same thing. (hinged joints for running cables from one axis to the next)?
[13:50:09] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Might be $1/foot, but still dirt cheap.
[13:51:49] <Jymmm> skunkworks: interested or not?
[13:52:20] <skunkworks> pictures?
[13:52:25] <Jymmm> no
[13:53:22] <Jymmm> I'm not selling it, just found it.
[13:53:33] <skunkworks> KimK: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/belvel.JPG Thinking of mounting a sprocket on the smaller nut (second one up)
[13:55:01] <skunkworks> boy - I probably am.. damn it jymmm
[13:57:05] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I didn't see any mounting end caps, but I didn't look too close at it either. They had like a 3ft cubed box of the stuff. It does not open, so you would have to feed cabling/tubing thru it.
[13:58:40] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Yours is the only behemoth I could think of that could use such a thing.
[14:01:33] <Jymmm> QUESTION... Since most power outages occur during a rain storm, does that mean that most generators (<5000W) are waterproof? (I seriously doubt it, but thought I'd ask anyway)
[14:02:29] <SWPadnos> I'd bet that most have NEMA3(?) enclosures, which I believe are rain resistant - they're not waterproof, but in general, drips fall on the outside
[14:02:43] <SWPadnos> you can't dunk it in the pool though
[14:03:18] <Jymmm> Well, you can't run a generator indoors, so it have to sit outside in the rain.
[14:03:29] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:03:35] <SWPadnos> even if you're not using it ...
[14:04:06] <SWPadnos> of course, you can get open frame generators - the ones that look like compressors, and I'd bet those aren't very waterproof
[14:04:18] <Jymmm> Well, the Honda EU1000-2000 you can store inside if you must.
[14:04:39] <SWPadnos> the motor probably runs fine (they have to be sealed anyway, for exhaust/explosion reasons)
[14:05:03] <SWPadnos> you'd have to look at the specs for a specific one
[14:05:13] <SWPadnos> hey, how was the earthquake?
[14:05:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Didn't feel them up here, only SoCal did.
[14:05:40] <SWPadnos> and Arizona ...
[14:05:55] <Jymmm> Yeah, anyone near Baja MX
[14:06:21] <SWPadnos> someone I know in Phoenix said his pool started sloshing water out onto the deck
[14:06:38] <SWPadnos> "Hmmm, I don't feel anything, but lookit all the water"
[14:06:59] <Jymmm> http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html
[14:07:10] <Jymmm> LOTS of aftershocks
[14:07:18] <SWPadnos> yeah
[14:07:28] <Jymmm> BIG ONES 3.0 4.0
[14:07:40] <SWPadnos> 5.3 5.4
[14:07:54] <Jymmm> http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/ci14607652.html
[14:07:57] <Jymmm> 7.2
[14:08:14] <SWPadnos> yeah, I know the main quake was 7.2, dentered near Mexicali
[14:08:18] <SWPadnos> or centered
[14:09:08] <Jymmm> Yeah, have that sucker bookmarked on the toolbar
[14:12:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did I show your the tri-fuel generator?
[14:13:21] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[14:16:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNaGW5SOPas
[14:18:31] <SWPadnos> they needa funnel :)
[14:19:27] <Dave911> The little genny's I have seen sure don't look drip proof. Around here (midwest) most power outages are due to ice storms which tear down wires and trees into wires....
[14:19:29] <Dave911> Guess you guys are rocking and rolliin out there?? Seems like there is a lot of fault line activity.. Chile, Haiti, now western Mexico... is CA next?? I think I might be sleeping outside in a tent.. ;-)
[14:19:59] <SWPadnos> but then a METEOR will hit you!
[14:21:38] <Jymmm> Those honda 1000/2000 generators are quiet and you can run 2 of the 2000 in tandem
[14:21:44] <Dave911> That's when you know you are screwed!
[14:21:57] <Dave911> Those little hondas are nice but pricy.....
[14:22:16] <Jymmm> Yeah they are, but electronics safe too.
[14:22:39] <Dave911> The little 6 1/2 hp Chinese gennies have a really good reputation... I can point you to an RV website with an extensive review of them if you want ...
[14:23:06] <Jymmm> Dave911: sure. are they the 3000W variety?
[14:23:48] <Jymmm> the thing I found is that you get oen of those $300 HD specials, you can't move it by yourself, or load it in a car.
[14:24:16] <Dave911> I have two little Kipor generators - 1 KW and 2 KW I like them a lot. Yes, 3000/3500 surge. They are really popular with the RV crowd because they are big enough to run an rooftop ac on a trailer...
[14:24:17] <Dave911> HD?
[14:24:19] <Jymmm> At least you can carry two of those EU2000i and run them in tandem
[14:24:23] <Jymmm> HD == Home Depot
[14:24:54] <Dave911> The little Kipor 1800 watt unit I have I use the most.. Computer safe and runs most stuff. It is an inverter unit.
[14:25:05] <Jymmm> link?
[14:25:12] <Jymmm> and how loud is it?
[14:25:57] <Jymmm> The dealer started one of the EU2000i indoors on the showroom floor and we could still hold on a normal conversation without yelling.
[14:27:32] <Dave911> http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15131645/print/true/pging/true/page/2.cfm
[14:27:34] <Dave911> 832 pages of exchanges on those Chinese generators... the result is that most people have very good luck with them and they last a long time.... some have over 1000 hours on them...
[14:28:00] <Dave911> The Kipor 1800 is a knockoff of the Honda 2000. Pretty much the same specs and it is very quiet..
[14:29:02] <Jymmm> Dave911: $$$$$ ?????
[14:29:10] <Dave911> Oh yea, you can talk right next to it.. no problem.. The 3000 watt chinese genny's have huge mufflers so they are pretty quiet but not as quiet as a Honda or the Kipor as they don't have the outside jacket.
[14:31:03] <Dave911> I don't know what the Kipor are going for now, I heard they had some upset in their distribution channel in the US - probably due to the flood of other Chinese gennies.. But I think the Kipor 1800 was listing about $550 and you could buy them for about $450. I got mine on sale for $300 and it was a no brainer to buy it as I already had experience with the 1 kw Kipor. Basically the Kipor...
[14:31:05] <Dave911> ...is about 1/2 the cost of the Hondas.
[14:31:37] <Jymmm> Dave911: Can you run them in tandem?
[14:32:20] <Dave911> Kipor has a really nice 3000/3500 wat genny like the bigger honda also - also very quiet. I don't know if you can run the one I have in tandem but I think the newer Kipor 2kw units can be run in tandem..
[14:32:29] <Jymmm> http://www.kipornorthamerica.com/Sinemaster2.aspx
[14:33:28] <Jymmm> Yep you can... http://www.kipornorthamerica.com/Sinemaster2_ParallelKit.aspx
[14:34:50] <Jymmm> I figure it's a lot easier to have two of them running in tandem than to try and man handle one big monster by yourself.
[14:35:30] <Jymmm> Dave911: Thanks for the info, I'll have to check them out.
[14:35:55] <Dave911> You found it... My kipor 2kw is even red like the hondas! Honestly I don't know the best way to buy a Kipor right now. I believe they are a lot bigger in the UK than the US.
[14:35:57] <Dave911> Yes, they are about 45 lbs each I think. And they have robust handles... good luck!
[14:36:24] <Jymmm> Yeah, that's the North America site too =)
[14:37:07] <tom3p> huh, i thought Kipor sounded Indian, but its Chinese http://www.kipor.com/cont.asp
[14:37:35] <Jymmm> I'm still reading the honda manual to see what they say about using around water.
[14:50:33] <Jymmm> The CLOSEST thing they mention about water is this:
[14:50:37] <Jymmm> eepallcoolingholesopenandclearofdebris,mud,water,etc.
[14:50:38] <Jymmm> Coolingholesarelocatedonthesidepanel,thecontrolpanel,andthe
[14:50:39] <Jymmm> bottomofthegenerator.Ifthecoolingholesareblocked,the
[14:50:41] <Jymmm> generatormayoverheatanddamagetheengine,inverter,orwindings.
[14:51:00] <Jymmm> No mention of water even in the warranty exclusion.
[14:55:52] <MattyMatt> jymmm, most big generators I see are mounted on trailers, painted yellow, just like the compressors used for jackhammers. They look plenty waterproof if you put a tarp over them when not in use
[14:56:14] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: That's why I said < 5000 Watts
[14:57:09] <Jymmm> Heh, the heaviest spot light ever... http://www.kipornorthamerica.com/App_Themes/Red/Images/Large/MobLight_Collage.gif
[14:57:15] <Dave911> I think the Kipor would run ok outside in rain but if possible I'd run it under a card table or peice of plywood just to avoid problems. They just aren't that big.
[14:57:16] <Dave911> FWIW, a lot of sailboat guys use them on their boats as a power backup to charge batteries etc. same with the 2kw hondas. You might want to look at the Yamaha 2 kw also. Those are nice also.
[14:57:18] <Dave911> There is another line of 2kw inverter gennies being imported also - might be Mcculloch brand. A lot of these look very similiar. I wouldn't be surprised if Kipor doesn't make all of them. Kipor has been around for a while now.
[14:57:28] <MattyMatt> OK get a smaller trailer, turn it into a service module, and paint it yellow :)
[14:57:57] <Dave911> MattyMatt likes trailers ..... I am afflicted as well.. ;-)
[14:58:13] <Jymmm> There are a few Kipor dealers in my area.
[14:58:39] <MattyMatt> I have considered road wheels on my mill :)
[14:58:54] <MattyMatt> for outdoor demos
[14:59:10] <Dave911> A portable mill... hmmmmmm.... never know when you might need one!
[14:59:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos made me put wheels on mine.
[15:00:51] <MattyMatt> This Tricept would be the machine for outdoor work -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jkk-koLIA&NR=1
[15:01:14] <MattyMatt> on the end of a cherry picker
[15:03:57] <Jymmm> That thing is creepy scarry!
[15:04:10] <MattyMatt> or a JCB with the jackhammer attachment, running on emc :)
[15:04:52] <MattyMatt> although the John Deere 6 legged with the tree-eating attachment is scarier
[15:08:51] <MattyMatt> that hexapod pfred linked to had a nice mini spindle. probably from a real Dremel™ by the looks of it
[15:17:33] <MattyMatt> cradek_: you should have shown KimK andypugh's hobbing vid. that's like lathing-on-a-mill in reverse
[15:37:00] <MattyMatt> oh yeah, the reason I'm excited right now -> http://imagebin.org/91757
[15:40:02] <cradek_> that looks promising
[15:40:06] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[15:40:54] <MattyMatt> it opens the door
[15:41:36] <MattyMatt> there'll be dimensioning scripts and all sorts now
[15:42:47] <robotito> why not use cad?
[15:42:59] <SWPadnos> price
[15:43:05] <MattyMatt> I'm used to blender, and it's free
[15:43:15] <robotito> qcad it's free
[15:43:17] <SWPadnos> and availability on ones preferred OS
[15:43:49] <SWPadnos> well;, there is that
[15:44:00] <MattyMatt> and the button that make an animated raytraced video :)
[15:45:34] <MattyMatt> is nice
[15:46:37] <SWPadnos> oh. I guess it might be a more fair competition if qcad were 3D
[15:47:41] <MattyMatt> blender is more like solidworks & topsolid, or it has the potential to be
[15:47:53] <SWPadnos> well, no. not really
[15:48:01] <SWPadnos> but it can make nice 3D models :)
[15:48:06] <MattyMatt> it can do all the simulation etc
[15:48:33] <SWPadnos> it's a little bit funny to compare something that just had units added to a real CAD package ...
[15:48:54] <MattyMatt> that was the key ingredient the chefs were resisting :)
[15:49:08] <MattyMatt> no turning back now
[15:49:48] <MattyMatt> yeah it's low on CAD, but great CAM potential with the python
[15:50:03] <aa-danimal-shop> mornin
[15:50:05] <MattyMatt> and the physics etc
[15:54:27] <MattyMatt> good morning
[15:55:38] <aa-danimal-shop> my computer would just freeze out of the blue.... i mean completely freeze, the mouse wouldnt move, no sound, etc. However, the screen would still display whatever what was on it when it froze, until i shut it down. I pulled the heat sink off the processor and saw a couple spots where it was metal on chip (the grease wore off). could this be the culprit?
[15:56:03] <MattyMatt> no
[15:56:53] <aa-danimal-shop> what do you think it is?
[15:57:58] <MattyMatt> in order, bad mains, poorly seated card or ram, bad psu, bad mobo, bad cpu
[15:58:05] <pjm> aa-danimal-shop try running memtest86 for a hour or two
[15:58:47] <MattyMatt> yeah the memtest on LiveCD caught a RAM fault I'd never noticed
[15:59:10] <aa-danimal-shop> MattyMatt, it isnt the ram, cards, or psu... i've swapped all them out
[15:59:22] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll try memtest though
[15:59:47] <aa-danimal-shop> what's the mains?
[15:59:59] <SWPadnos> AC powr
[16:00:01] <MattyMatt> 240V 50Hz here :)
[16:00:01] <SWPadnos> power
[16:00:17] <aa-danimal-shop> ohh
[16:00:29] <aa-danimal-shop> power is fine
[16:00:54] <MattyMatt> it's a polite way of asking "is it plugged in?" :)
[16:00:57] <aa-danimal-shop> if the processor is overheating, it wouldnt do that?
[16:01:01] <aa-danimal-shop> ha
[16:01:31] <SWPadnos> depends on the CPU
[16:01:40] <MattyMatt> a well fitted heatsink should touch on the high points anyway. the grease is just there to fill in the voids
[16:01:41] <aa-danimal-shop> amd athlon xp2600
[16:01:45] <SWPadnos> some Intels will throttle back until they cool down
[16:02:07] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I don't think there's any throttling like that in the Athlons
[16:02:38] <aa-danimal-shop> it would only happen when i was running somethnig like a video or a cnc program
[16:02:46] <MattyMatt> refitting my heatsink on my 2200+ dropped the temp from 76C to 49C
[16:02:49] <SWPadnos> an overheating CPU could do that, as could RAM
[16:02:50] <aa-danimal-shop> happened both with windows and ubuntu
[16:03:08] <SWPadnos> bad video card could do it too - it's hard to tell if the PC is crashed when you can't update the screen
[16:03:26] <MattyMatt> I though 76C was normal for Athlons :) I didn't care until it started tripping the 80C limit
[16:03:39] <aa-danimal-shop> amd has a tiny contact patch where it touches the cpu
[16:03:54] <MattyMatt> I didn't add grease, just reseated it
[16:04:16] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, definitely not the video card.. i've tried a few, and this one is known to be good
[16:04:38] <aa-danimal-shop> how do i do memtest86?
[16:05:10] <SWPadnos> if you have a CPU temp monitoring program, start it running, run a video or whatever makes it crash (make sure you can still see the temp monitor), and wait for the crash to occur - the last known temperature will be frozen there for all to see
[16:05:23] <SWPadnos> the card doesn't have to be bad, it might just need re-seating
[16:05:28] <aa-danimal-shop> lol true
[16:05:35] <SWPadnos> same with RAM, etc
[16:06:05] <MattyMatt> or while it's warmed up, reboot and look in the bios at cpu temp
[16:06:10] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, all that stuff has been swaped out or reseated many times
[16:06:27] <SWPadnos> that doesn't mean it's correct *now*
[16:06:55] <aa-danimal-shop> different cases, etc
[16:07:36] <MattyMatt> and if it's an asus mobo, watch out for overtemp tripping. at 80C it's supposed to sound an alert and shut down. what it actually does is blow the psu & hard drives, then refuse to boot for a few weeks
[16:08:10] <aa-danimal-shop> it's an asus a7n8x deluxe
[16:08:10] <tom3p> can you reboot right away?
[16:08:12] <MattyMatt> I lost 3 drives in one night
[16:08:15] <aa-danimal-shop> tom, yes
[16:08:22] <tom3p> i doubt heat
[16:08:46] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, the longer it stays on, the more frequently it has this issue
[16:09:00] <MattyMatt> oh dear, yours is the posh version of mine. if it's a bios bug then avoid tripping the overtemp
[16:09:12] <aa-danimal-shop> if i let it sit for a while, it takes a little longer for it to show
[16:09:37] <tom3p> ok, wont hurt to clean , regrease, reseat the sink ( cpu too)
[16:09:47] <aa-danimal-shop> i just did
[16:09:57] <tom3p> same?
[16:10:06] <MattyMatt> just reseat, as long as there's no crunchy grit
[16:10:10] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm going to try it, i was just curious if there was an obvious sign of what the problem might be
[16:10:23] <MattyMatt> cpu temp is your best clue
[16:10:33] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, it could be an hour or so before i see the problem
[16:10:34] <MattyMatt> as reported by the bios
[16:10:45] <aa-danimal-shop> ok
[16:10:49] <aa-danimal-shop> what's a normal temp?
[16:11:14] <MattyMatt> I went from 76C to 49C with apparently good seating before & after
[16:11:23] <tom3p> if temp, just use bios to monitor, should freeze on the bios screen showing inf0 ( i think the bios will say whats normal )
[16:11:51] <MattyMatt> just random happenstance, because you have to concentrate on not chipping chips off the chip :)
[16:11:52] <aa-danimal-shop> how do you run emc while still in bios?
[16:12:15] <aa-danimal-shop> or can you access bios from the os?
[16:12:19] <tom3p> cant, but you can catch an overheating cpu in bios
[16:12:41] <MattyMatt> you can, those athlons get up to heat in seconds
[16:13:30] <MattyMatt> you said can :) sorry
[16:14:12] <tom3p> (cant' run emc while still in bios' )
[16:14:37] <MattyMatt> yep my reading synapse transposed that to the can
[16:14:58] <aa-danimal-shop> it wont shut down in bios..i need to be doing something resouce heavy. i guess i'd have to rebootand go into bios as soon as it freezes
[16:15:35] <MattyMatt> it's too late to get your old bios cpu temp, so just see what it is now and cross your fingers
[16:17:27] <aa-danimal-shop> 27c
[16:17:37] <MattyMatt> that's bloody good :)
[16:17:43] <aa-danimal-shop> but like i said, i already reseated and regreased it
[16:18:13] <aa-danimal-shop> i guess i should have checked it earlier
[16:18:25] <tom3p> wont shut down in bios... mem sticks and vid card are good, then i'd look into sockets, do card feel well seated? wiggle a lot? look level? are socket pins discolored/bent?
[16:19:07] <MattyMatt> 90% of my hardware fails are wonky cards in slots
[16:19:08] <tom3p> rubber eraser on edge connector to remove any tarnish
[16:19:38] <MattyMatt> the other 10% are my athlon hitting 80C
[16:20:27] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, everythnig seems fine
[16:20:34] <MattyMatt> in the old days it was always the IDC ribbons, but they seem to be made stronger these days
[16:21:27] <JT-Work> aa-danimal-shop: does it freeze up when EMC is not running?
[16:21:41] <tom3p> (he said it does it in windows )
[16:21:52] <JT-Work> ok, I missed that
[16:22:10] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, it just does it when i am putting it under some load
[16:22:26] <tom3p> describe load
[16:22:58] <aa-danimal-shop> well in windows, it happened while playing a video
[16:23:04] <aa-danimal-shop> everytime
[16:23:23] <SWPadnos> -> video
[16:23:23] <aa-danimal-shop> in linux, it does it while running a program in emc
[16:24:20] <tom3p> have another vid card? ( that it works in another system doesnt mean its ok in this combination )
[16:24:35] <JT-Work> did you touch the cpu's I sent you back? Might have been some bad juju on them as my computer problems seemed to leave with them :)
[16:24:56] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, it would have to be something video related in the motherboard, because it is most definitely not the video cards... they work fine in other machines, and i've reseated them many times
[16:25:16] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, yes, and i tried them, no difference
[16:25:44] <tom3p> that says mobo, sorry
[16:25:46] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Work, it is the same processor you used... the xp2600
[16:26:29] <JT-Work> I could not get EMC to run on that one with 8.04 it would lock up on me
[16:26:32] <SWPadnos> -> CPU :)
[16:27:01] <JT-Work> none if the three cpu's I tried on that mobo would run EMC2
[16:27:14] <tom3p> ???
[16:27:14] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Work, define run... could you get it to load?
[16:27:15] <MattyMatt> my money's on, it was overheating it won't anymore
[16:27:32] <aa-danimal-shop> MattyMatt, same here
[16:27:52] <JT-Work> yea, but it would not have enough processor left to do anything it stayed pegged at 100%
[16:28:49] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Work, i think you had your multiplier set wrong
[16:28:56] <JT-Work> I think I had 6.06 running with EMC on that mobo before I started the Hardinge conversion
[16:29:25] <aa-danimal-shop> you had the wrong processor speed written on all of them
[16:29:38] <sealive> does anyone now if a broken L298 can be sessurd
[16:29:49] <JT-Work> yea, brain fart or ...
[16:30:25] <sealive> measuring
[16:31:18] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, how much money has this cost you?, how much will new cost? ( with some possibility of return )
[16:31:51] <SWPadnos> aa-danimal-shop, take a look at the capacitors on the motherboard
[16:32:35] <SWPadnos> if different CPUs, different memory, different power supplies, different video cards, and different OSes have all exhibited problems, then the motherboard sounds more and more likely
[16:32:56] <SWPadnos> and different operators apparently, so I can't even blame it on you :)
[16:33:09] <JT-Work> lol
[16:33:11] <sealive> that sounds if you best take a new used one
[16:33:18] <tom3p> ? electrolytics with bulges?
[16:33:35] <SWPadnos> tom3p, yeah, that's what I was thinking of
[16:33:46] <MattyMatt> these asus nf2 boards did get lots of those dodgy caps
[16:34:30] <sealive> today there is no holiday in the USA or?
[16:34:32] <tom3p> how many layer is that mobo? ( maybe difficult to remove & replace )
[16:34:52] <JT-Work> nope
[16:34:57] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, i cant affford to throw money away on a mobo if this isnt bad. plus i'd have to buy a new mobo, new ram, and a new cpu
[16:35:33] <sealive> aa-danimal-shop: used ones woudt do the job as well
[16:35:54] <aa-danimal-shop> sealive, if i can find one.
[16:36:04] <JT-Work> if you could even find one...
[16:36:05] <MattyMatt> dive more dumpsters
[16:36:05] <SWPadnos> yeah. hard to find socket-A motherboards these days
[16:36:40] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm going to just run it and see. i'll know within a couple hours if it's fixed
[16:36:40] <tom3p> http://www.shopgoodwill.com/listings/listbycat.asp?catid=7
[16:36:48] <MattyMatt> the last one I salvaged had 512MB, a DVD burner
[16:37:11] <sealive> on ebay there are more then enove ,also with a hole PC around it
[16:37:20] <mrzip> can someone help with iscsi question
[16:37:29] <aa-danimal-shop> my money is still on it overheating
[16:37:33] <SWPadnos> mrzip, I suspect you have the wrong EMC
[16:37:42] <SWPadnos> this is about a machine controller, not a storage system
[16:37:47] <mrzip> o
[16:37:52] <MattyMatt> nice clean case, just needed a mod on a full size psu and that's now my emc machine
[16:37:58] <SWPadnos> common problem :)
[16:38:02] <sealive> i shot all my notebooks for the CNC under 50Euro
[16:38:10] <mrzip> so no luck here either
[16:38:37] <SWPadnos> nope, inless you're talking about an ISCSI motor controller or something :)
[16:38:41] <SWPadnos> unless
[16:39:01] <mrzip> nah
[16:41:04] <sealive> http://computers.shop.ebay.com/PC-Laptops-Netbooks-/177/i.html?Type=Laptop%252FNotebook&LH_Auction=1&LH_Price=..75%40c&Memory%2520%2528RAM%2529=512%2520MB%2520or%2520more&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A2694&_nkw=notebook&_catref=1&_dmpt=Laptops_Nov05&_mPrRngCbx=1&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=1&_sc=1
[16:41:20] <sealive> 101 Labtops for your job
[16:41:34] <MattyMatt> laptops aren't ideal for RTAI
[16:41:46] <MattyMatt> too much latency and sucky vid speed
[16:41:55] <sealive> but it works with xbuntu hardy perfect
[16:42:26] <MattyMatt> what latency do you get with the emc hardy?
[16:42:36] <sealive> 20000
[16:42:45] <MattyMatt> not so bad :)
[16:43:13] <sealive> i lost on saturday the controller by speed testing out the mini CNC
[16:43:19] <sealive> 200x200x100mm
[16:43:45] <sealive> speed with L297/298 > 1800mm/min
[16:44:05] <MattyMatt> I have 3.5A drivers pushing 1.75A into 1A motors
[16:44:14] <sealive> at 38V by 2A per phase
[16:44:24] <MattyMatt> and I stall at around 200rpm
[16:44:43] <MattyMatt> so, my drivers are safe :)
[16:44:47] <sealive> Threasß
[16:45:19] <sealive> Tread
[16:45:44] <sealive> pitch?
[16:46:08] <MattyMatt> similar 200rpm stall on 10mm ballscrews and 1.25mm M8
[16:46:38] <MattyMatt> TB6560 drivers
[16:46:44] <sealive> wow
[16:46:50] <MattyMatt> only 12V psu
[16:47:09] <sealive> 12V got a lot of head
[16:47:26] <sealive> you shoud work larger then 20V
[16:47:59] <sealive> 24V 5A unit at 18Eur
[16:48:11] <MattyMatt> laptop psu?
[16:48:29] <sealive> no real stuff
[16:49:22] <MattyMatt> where? and how much shipping to UK? :)
[16:50:09] <sealive> http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=2;LA=2;GROUP=D481;GROUPID=4164;START=0;OFFSET=16;SHOW=1;SID=263CNtU6wQARoAAFYVMcM1b5da9a590fcc373c81000f893b89541
[16:50:16] <MattyMatt> I'm happy with 12V until I get everything working, wired, fused etc. with a 4 axis board I want to avoid dead channels
[16:50:56] <MattyMatt> I have a bare motor plugged into the 4th axis just as a load :)
[16:51:02] <sealive> therfor i work with the real stuff L298/297 1,9Eur to fix the driver
[16:51:14] <sealive> bord is 11Eur
[16:51:41] <sealive> with the savty Optocoupler at 18Eur
[16:57:29] <MattyMatt> nice stuff. the cheapest single drivers I could find were about 40E each
[16:58:00] <MattyMatt> this 4 axis chinese board was the best value I could find at the time
[16:58:21] <skunkworks> if you guys are only needing one pci slot - for $90 or so - the atom board works quite well.
[16:58:25] <MattyMatt> and it works well
[16:59:00] <sealive> as i but now i work with these http://www.mechapro.de/catalog/stepper-motor-power-stages-c22/?osCsid=3cfnt64aieghn4mo3ls7kpsaa0
[16:59:28] <sealive> its around the corner so i can get it by car from there
[17:03:14] <MattyMatt> nice local shop :)
[17:06:15] <sealive> ther is also a big store in the UK for electronic compnents or
[17:06:33] <sealive> you must not buy from the continent
[17:08:22] <aa-danimal-shop> so far so good... she's still running
[17:09:03] <sealive> running or milling?
[17:10:42] <aa-danimal-shop> milling
[17:11:05] <sealive> yea :D
[17:11:35] <sealive> aa-danimal-shop: what did you as a shop owner think about the gekodriv
[17:11:38] <aa-danimal-shop> still eartly though
[17:12:30] <aa-danimal-shop> oh i dunno, i'm not too knowledgable on that stuff... however i dont think i'd use their servo drives because of the whole step/direction thing
[17:12:50] <MattyMatt> we have Maplins and Radio Spares. no nice cheap real industrial stuff
[17:13:19] <MattyMatt> it's either cheap crap for hobbyists, or overpriced good stuff for industry
[17:13:34] <MattyMatt> and then we have ebay :)
[17:13:36] <sealive> MattyMatt: i saw it no parts like reichelt or conrad in the German
[17:15:36] <sealive> MattyMatt: take al look at the BAUELEMENTE in the online Catalog ->http://www.reichelt.de//bilder/blaetterkatalog/hk2010_06//index.html?SID=263CNtU6wQARoAAFYVMcM1b5da9a590fcc373c81000f893b89541;SID=263CNtU6wQARoAAFYVMcM1b5da9a590fcc373c81000f893b89541;startpage=
[17:15:39] <MattyMatt> MarchantDice and ArcEuroTrade are the best CNC shops on ebay.co.uk
[17:18:39] <MattyMatt> £1 barely buys 1€ atm. I gotta remember that
[17:19:58] <sealive> i lookt at both shops expensiv and not that stuff i'am interestet in
[17:20:52] <aa-danimal-shop> one thing i forgot to mention was that the computer would freeze if it was running a program in emc, even when the screen saver was on
[17:20:54] <sealive> but if it works fpr you its ok
[17:21:33] <sealive> Stepper with 1,3Nm at 38Eur here
[17:21:57] <sealive> KH56KM2-951
[17:22:23] <sealive> 2A 2,4V 1,32Ohm 3,19mH
[17:23:27] <MattyMatt> I got lucky with my motors on ebay, but I certainly add those german suppliers to my list for my next machine
[17:24:06] <sealive> i will start building mashine Nr 14 on tusday after i visited the dentist
[17:24:23] <sealive> then i am agressiv enov
[17:24:42] <sealive> blue sky here
[17:25:14] <MattyMatt> my machine is sitting idle, waiting for me to make toolpaths
[17:25:36] <MattyMatt> back to blender
[17:25:41] <sealive> generatet by ?
[17:25:58] <sealive> did you ever work with qcad
[17:26:10] <MattyMatt> nope
[17:26:25] <MattyMatt> heekscad & blender
[17:26:36] <sealive> do you realy need 3D parts or only 2D
[17:26:56] <sealive> i think qcad is faster for you in 2D
[17:27:17] <MattyMatt> it's a 3d machine. 200mm Z
[17:27:26] <sealive> your on hary or
[17:27:53] <sealive> no i mean the sketch the depth is on heekscad
[17:29:47] <MattyMatt> I do 3d for video games, so I'm happy in blender. I've been learning how to do 3d->2.5d anyway for making textures with bumpmaps
[17:31:10] <sealive> ok i work also with blender for generating 3D video but qcad for milling is the best and easy way belive me
[17:31:29] <sealive> woudt you like to get 5min training into it?
[17:32:13] <MattyMatt> I'll push the limits of exporting between blender & heeks first. but thanks for the offer
[17:32:45] <sealive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/250310160515_weel.jpg this part within seconds
[17:34:34] <MattyMatt> http://imagebin.org/91601 this part in a day and a half
[17:36:01] <sealive> nice i do things like that http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/280310192538_traktor.jpg
[17:36:15] <sealive> milling at 800mm with 1mm VHM
[17:36:31] <sealive> 6 depth
[17:36:53] <sealive> thats 2 parts at one time
[17:36:58] <MattyMatt> that's why I'm modelling all the fine detail, for plywood surfaces :)
[17:37:21] <MattyMatt> and also to make bump & normal maps, for video uses
[17:37:27] <sealive> but its mutch easyer on qcad
[17:37:38] <sealive> ok
[17:39:07] <MattyMatt> blender isn't easy to do anything, but it's so powerful it's worth the effort for me
[17:39:56] <MattyMatt> in another file, I can plot out the bus route and have that bus drive around my 3d city
[17:39:57] <aa-danimal-shop> ok so i just made it through 3 parts with no issues, and before it wouldnt even make it through 1. I think it was a heat sink issue
[17:40:15] <MattyMatt> happy days \o/
[17:40:27] <tom3p> great
[17:40:35] <frallzor> f*ck, have to wait a week to get 3phase wired to the garage =(
[17:40:42] <frallzor> so I cant test my bloody mill
[17:41:29] <aa-danimal-shop> you can get 3 phase to your home?
[17:41:46] <frallzor> we all have it here
[17:41:59] <frallzor> pretty much standard afaik
[17:42:10] <frallzor> 3phase in > 1-2phase out
[17:42:14] <aa-danimal-shop> i hate your country lol
[17:42:19] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, you had already reseated the cpu & heatsink and it still failed, whats different?
[17:42:31] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, never said that
[17:42:51] <MattyMatt> what length of cable do you need to shift 120deg of phase? get 2x enormous drums of wire
[17:43:14] <aa-danimal-shop> i reseated the cards before. not the cpu
[17:43:47] <aa-danimal-shop> first time i reseated the heat sink on the cpu was this morning
[17:44:04] <MattyMatt> the BBC do that all the time. they have a box with 100 miles of coax they use to phase sync London & Birmingham
[17:44:12] <tom3p> tom3p> ok, wont hurt to clean , regrease, reseat the sink ( cpu too)
[17:44:12] <tom3p> <aa-danimal-shop> i just did ok i misunderstood that
[17:45:02] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[17:45:06] <aa-danimal-shop> i hope it's good
[17:45:16] <aa-danimal-shop> it'll save me a couple hundred $
[17:45:21] <tom3p> yes, your income depends on it
[17:45:59] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, yea, well i can always go buy one if it doesnt work, but i'm not just going to buy one without being certain
[17:46:09] <aa-danimal-shop> the store is only 10 minutes away
[17:47:09] <MattyMatt> dual core cpu has gotta make sense for RTAI+X
[17:47:48] <MattyMatt> latencies on dual atoms don't seem that impressive tho
[17:48:22] <aa-danimal-shop> this mobo was around 9k for the latency
[17:49:12] <MattyMatt> mine is over 15k, but that a hp mobo with onboard vid and a 1.2 Athlon
[17:49:30] <aa-danimal-shop> ah
[17:49:50] <tom3p> rather than people posting what older hdwr worked, it'd be nice to have urls to purchase ones known to work. as the older stuff can be very hard to find.
[17:50:41] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, this is an asus a7n8x-deluxe with all the integrated stuff turned off, 1 gb of ram, a geforce fx5500, and an amd xp2600 processor
[17:51:05] <MattyMatt> also info on whether dual core chip is tangibly better than single, on the same mobo, would be handy
[17:51:06] <aystarik> intel atom 330 mini-itx boards work for me
[17:52:01] <MattyMatt> we should persuade THG to do an emc2 special
[17:52:43] <MattyMatt> 10 Best Motherboards For Your CNC Mill
[17:53:07] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[17:53:41] <issy> hi all
[17:54:00] <aa-danimal-shop> well i'm gunna write this off as a working pc again
[17:54:01] <MattyMatt> they'd love it, all them pictures of shiny robots
[17:54:02] <tom3p> hello
[18:02:31] <frallzor> anyone got some nice g-code for a nice carving?
[18:02:54] <Jymmm> like the g-code that loads when axis starts?
[18:03:18] <frallzor> well. better =)
[18:03:24] <frallzor> and a real nice carving :P
[18:03:25] <frallzor> 3d
[18:03:36] <Jymmm> Like Tux that comes with emc?
[18:03:37] <frallzor> not just some text
[18:03:51] <frallzor> too simple
[18:04:14] <frallzor> want something for the mill can struggle with
[18:04:20] <frallzor> *that the
[18:05:30] <frallzor> sweet, I have artcam in this session, ill just try to make something with it
[18:10:50] <dmess> hi all
[18:12:04] <frallzor> hmm buy a nice model maybe...
[18:24:15] <Guest843> cradek are you avalable to talk?
[18:39:02] <kbarry> Is my IRC broken, or is it just quiet in here?
[18:40:27] <bill2or3> shhh...
[18:41:23] <kbarry> Thanks. :)
[18:47:33] <kbarry> Anyone experienced with making those skeletal slot/construction models?
[18:47:49] <kbarry> (Thinking about the think wooden dinosaus and insects from my childhood)
[18:51:03] <archivist> there is a recent user doing something related http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/280310192538_traktor.jpg
[18:55:51] <frallzor> * frallzor is dying
[18:56:26] <frallzor> its scary to use the MDI :P
[18:56:54] <frallzor> home all axis, move about, use mdi to home all
[18:57:00] <frallzor> you think it wont stop
[19:04:56] <Guest843> took awhile for me to get used to it in the lathe
[19:05:16] <Guest843> put in a new tool and it would take off the start the new cut
[19:05:29] <Guest843> used to scare the hell out of me
[19:05:53] <Guest843> thought it would not stop in time and make one hell of a mess
[19:06:59] <Guest843> I should proof read before hitting the send, lol
[19:07:04] <skunkworks> kbarry: http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5276&highlight=dinosaur
[19:11:57] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[19:20:25] <mozmck_work> wow, I'm not having much success on pentium 4 computers as far as latency goes...
[19:20:50] <skunkworks> really? I usually have good luck.. Onboard video?
[19:20:53] <mozmck_work> numbers like 55000 even with the smi module loaded...
[19:21:06] <mozmck_work> I think so - maybe that's the problem
[19:21:30] <skunkworks> that is a big issue
[19:21:39] <skunkworks> shared memory
[19:22:21] <mozmck_work> Seems to me like AMD do better overall. I think my computer on my router table is using onboard graphics, and it runs like a scared rabbit!
[19:22:39] <mozmck_work> does better even...
[19:23:24] <mozmck_work> guess I need to find a few good graphics cards cheap
[19:36:03] <frallzor> Guest843 well I have no limits yet :P
[19:36:10] <frallzor> excpet softlimit :P
[19:49:44] <skunkworks> This is from the 'extra' k&t we have (for parts) http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/tablerotation.JPG
[19:50:08] <skunkworks> this is what gives it the 5deg index
[20:01:42] <tom3p> kbarry not animals, but is slot & tongue http://yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/?subPage=na_tapecie&tag=mGcodeGenerator
[20:04:26] <mozmck_work> thanks for reminding me about the graphics skunkworks
[20:04:52] <mozmck_work> put an nvidia card we had in here and looks like the latency is down around 12000 now.
[20:06:06] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, still ok? just setup P3 650, dual cpu (with #2 pulled) running lat-test with 13k /19K resp (gimp, 2xglxgears, youtube vid, oofice & text editor) gonna let that cook for a few hours
[20:06:30] <mozmck_work> skunkworks: did you ever get a chance to look and see what extra stuff you have for the asymtek?
[20:09:30] <skunkworks> mozmck: shoot - no. I actually could just package up everything that I am not going to use and send it to you.
[20:09:46] <skunkworks> main board/conrol and valves
[20:11:21] <skunkworks> mozmck: great! that more times than not is the culprit
[20:13:52] <tom3p> is the 5 degrees due to 72 teeth? ( i tried to count a quadrant and thought it was 80 total)
[20:14:16] <skunkworks> tom3p: the coupling.
[20:14:36] <tom3p> yeh it has 72 teeth? like a hurth coupling
[20:15:02] <skunkworks> 72 ye[
[20:15:04] <skunkworks> yep
[20:15:15] <tom3p> so it has to move up and down to index, those are very accurate
[20:15:51] <skunkworks> yes
[20:16:12] <tom3p> make a secondary with 50 teeth to get additional 0.1 :)
[20:16:15] <skunkworks> and for most things - it will work great - maching on multible sides of somethng
[20:19:06] <skunkworks> we now have an idea if it would be possible to make it a full axis. (I don't think we will - just as easy to mount a small rotory table or 4 to the pallet)
[20:19:18] <skunkworks> ;)
[20:23:29] <kbarry> Thanks tom3p, Been doing some design lately with this in mind
[20:28:03] <frallzor> hmm is there some app that can generate g-code for testing with the limits of the xyz?
[20:28:59] <mozmck_work> g00 x1000000 y1000000 z1000000
[20:29:14] <frallzor> nah not just like that
[20:29:32] <mozmck_work> :) what do you mean?
[20:29:37] <frallzor> that actually does some "cool" things, "sinuswaves" etc etc
[20:29:41] <frallzor> not just simple basic movement
[20:30:27] <mozmck_work> sinuswaves? like when my sinuses are running and I'm sneezing...
[20:31:12] <mozmck_work> :) just kidding you.
[20:31:16] <frallzor> hmm ill try to make a huge 8 :P
[20:31:22] <frallzor> and see how fast it can be done
[20:32:09] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, not sure, i just went to the store
[20:32:16] <mozmck_work> yeah, that would test the acceleration and all - I guess that's what you're wanting.
[20:33:28] <skunkworks> run tux.
[21:08:12] <morfic> am i incorrect in calling the "motors" that drive an axis "servo"?
[21:11:24] <kbarry> depends
[21:11:30] <kbarry> Are they SEervos?
[21:11:33] <kbarry> OR Steppers?
[21:11:49] <kbarry> Servos or steppers?
[21:12:33] <morfic> seems i only got info on the drives for the AC Serial spindle
[21:13:19] <frallzor> bah adjusting Z is tricky
[21:13:44] <morfic> kbarry: i wanted info on both drives and servos, all i got was the drive info it seems, guess i go look at everything at work tomorrow
[21:14:44] <morfic> i want to start looking at the pieces between emc2 and the drives/servos we have in the machine, ideally boss would like to keep what we have, until they die out
[21:17:45] <kbarry> Well,
[21:17:48] <kbarry> I can walk you thru it
[21:18:08] <kbarry> Simply, a CNC machine, the Computer treats it like a Printer
[21:18:32] <kbarry> (Printers have 3 axis, top to bottom, left to right, and ink to no ink)
[21:18:57] <kbarry> So the Computer connects to a Breakout Board
[21:18:59] <kbarry> (BOB)
[21:20:04] <kbarry> This circuitry is in charge of taking commands from the computer (Go to position x5 Y-2 Z+0.1) and sending the correct insutrction to the correct motor,
[21:20:40] <kbarry> ("X motor, go RIGHT (or left) till you get to +5, Y motor...."
[21:20:50] <kbarry> The BOB is talking to "ControllerS"
[21:21:22] <kbarry> Controllers take instructions "Go to position 5.", and turn it into what the motor understands
[21:21:49] <kbarry> "this much voltage, to mke the motor spin this direction"
[21:22:06] <kbarry> is this making sense?
[21:24:05] <grommit> If my Mesa 7i43 card loads correctly, should the Init and Done lites be on or off?
[21:24:18] <frallzor> hmmm my spindle can do 16mm shafts.... maybe mount a pen and do some drawing? :P
[21:24:49] <kbarry> @ frallzor, youll wanna spring load the pen
[21:25:21] <PCW> off
[21:25:35] <grommit> thx
[21:27:07] <grommit> pcw: re new FW, do I just nned to put XXXX.BIT in place and use it, or do I need to load all the files that are in the .zip file? If the latter are there instructions for that somwhere?
[21:28:54] <morfic> kbarry: it does make sense
[21:29:18] <Dave911> How good where the original stepper motors on the Bridgeport 1 CNC mill? Are they worth keeping or not really?
[21:29:40] <kbarry> Morfic, what are you wanting to do?
[21:29:50] <kbarry> Are you rebuilding an old CNC, or
[21:29:54] <kbarry> retrofitting a manual?
[21:30:14] <Dave911> Retrofitting an old Bridgy CNC 1 perhaps....
[21:30:16] <morfic> kbarry: remove a fanuc CNC control, and drive the existing servos with a pc based control
[21:31:12] <kbarry> Commercial CNC machines typically have Servos,
[21:31:31] <kbarry> Do you understand the difference between Servo and Stepper?
[21:32:11] <morfic> only thing i have come across seems servos are in a loop that does not exist on a stepper?
[21:33:07] <PCW> Jut get the one bitfile. I'm not sure exactly where it goes maybe /usr/lib/firmware or something like that
[21:33:24] <aa-danimal-shop> Dave911, i have a shizuoka knee mill with steppers, which is about 6000lbs, close to a bridgeport series 2 i believe. It'll do about 130ipm reliably. they are nema 43 1350oz in steppers
[21:33:37] <morfic> the stepper has steps, caused by the magnetic field/the way they are wound, a servo has an encoder for better resolution? (freaky rough explanation i suppose)
[21:33:55] <aa-danimal-shop> PCW, i just got my replacement 5i20, thank you very much for your awesome customer service.
[21:34:48] <PCW> Well sorry for the problem, we do have lemons every once-and-awhile
[21:35:12] <aa-danimal-shop> the other one is on it's way back. It appears it was bad as i swapped it out for the one in my lathe and that one worked fine
[21:35:19] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, understandable
[21:35:25] <morfic> kbarry: a stepper only gets a signal and that's it, while a servo can give feedback of how far it actually went due to built in encoder/resolver?
[21:36:10] <kbarry> Encoders can be put on any motor (Stepper or Server), but a Servo cannot function without one, where a stepper can. Let me explain.
[21:36:10] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll probably order a spare just in case.
[21:37:39] <kbarry> Steppers have steps and so, are accurate, so long as you never lose a step (from trying to push harder than the motor can in a step, it will "slip", and without encoders the computer won't know, so, with a stepper, you have to go by faith that it "Made it to destination"
[21:39:43] <Dave911> PCW: I got that 5I20 working fine with the 7i47. I need to correct the position on one axis via a feedback encoder (I could have some slip in the drive system). Any recommendations on how best to do that? I need a PID loop in there, to close the final position loop. I've got a simulator setup working and I will add an encoder to it that i can "slip" to test the loops effectiveness.
[21:40:19] <Dave911> The 5i20 and the 7i47 came up without a hitch.. really easy... :-)
[21:40:53] <PCW> I think you just setup a normal PID loop but run the stepgen in velocity mode
[21:41:44] <Dave911> OK, just drive the step gen with the output of the PID loop and send the position setpoint to the PID loop etc...
[21:43:41] <PCW> There's someone on the forum (gtom?) thats done this with a linear encoder/stepmotor system
[21:43:42] <PCW> maybe he could make his HAL file available, but yes, basically you have a velocity mode servo
[21:44:12] <Dave911> tom3p Perhaps?
[21:44:27] <PCW> I dont think so
[21:45:07] <PCW> I think he's from Germany, same guy that wrote the mocca GUI
[21:45:35] <SWPadnos> I believe terrylm uses stepgen and encoders - he had a homing issue (I don't recall if it's Hostmot2 or not)
[21:46:22] <PCW> Yes thers no support for index on step motors yet in the driver (the firmware has support = latch count on index&set flag)
[21:48:28] <PCW> (latch stepgen count that is)
[21:48:29] <morfic> kbarry: ok, steppers w/o any form of encoder helping the machine knowing where it is at == faith needed ;)
[21:48:31] <Dave911> OK, I missed the mocca GUI... I'll do some searching...and look for terrylm. That's ok as I don't think I even need to home for this application.
[21:49:09] <frallzor> besides a broken wobbly pen my inktest was awesome
[21:50:09] <kbarry> So you will want to go with Servos,
[21:50:15] <kbarry> (Which you probably have)
[21:50:33] <kbarry> Aswell as Encoders (I dont know if its technically a Servo if it doesnt have encoders)
[21:50:46] <kbarry> Then you just need to decide on controllers
[21:50:51] <kbarry> and Breakout Board
[21:50:55] <Dave911> aa-danimal-shop: So you have no problems with steppers on that big mill? That is a monster compared with a Bridgeport 1 CNC.
[21:51:10] <aa-danimal-shop> other than being slow, no
[21:51:13] <morfic> kbarry: pretty sure they are AC Servos, i just wanted actual data on them from our design guy, to use that and see what hardware is needed to go from the BOB to the drives
[21:51:16] <aa-danimal-shop> accelleration is slow
[21:51:41] <kbarry> Youll need to know the Voltage, of the motors,
[21:51:46] <Dave911> So your rapids are slow but how much time do you really spend doing rapids??
[21:51:49] <aa-danimal-shop> i had some issues with missing steps in the beginning, but i have increased the microstepping and it helped
[21:51:57] <kbarry> Someone else please jump in, I use steppers, not servos,
[21:52:04] <aa-danimal-shop> Dave911, a bit, i run production on my machine
[21:52:19] <kbarry> What specs does one ened from Existing Servos, to help pick out P/S, BOB, and Controllers?
[21:52:24] <Dave911> OK, good enough for me... :-)
[21:52:41] <aa-danimal-shop> Dave911, you can get stepper drivers for dirt cheap, so just try and see
[21:52:49] <kbarry> (As in, W/ Steppers, you need to know Voltage, and if it will be wired polar, serious parallel, and the like)
[21:53:08] <SWPadnos> the only thing you should need, assuming that the motors and drives still work, is an interface that can output +/-10V control sugnals
[21:53:10] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/DGkUIeBFt/ first test of "milling" :P
[21:53:25] <Dave911> I've got some 7.5 amp ones already so I think they should work with the bridgeport motors.. if the motors are not junk.
[21:53:30] <SWPadnos> that's the most commonly used control scheme, especially on old CNC controls
[21:53:54] <aa-danimal-shop> Dave911, i use cheap chineese leadshine 7.5A? ones
[21:54:05] <SWPadnos> it's possible (especially with a Fanuc) that you will also need some extra hardware to synthesize a tach output to the drive
[21:54:09] <aa-danimal-shop> and my motors are 9.2A superior electric
[21:54:15] <SWPadnos> or you may need to add tachs
[21:54:32] <Dave911> Where did you buy the leadshine drives from? Keling?
[21:54:57] <SWPadnos> kbarry, using a breakout board is very uncommon with servos, and only necessary for steppers when you use the parallel port
[21:54:59] <aa-danimal-shop> from the leadshine us distributor....
[21:55:07] <SWPadnos> there are other interfaces that make BOBs irrelevant
[21:55:14] <kbarry> Hahaha
[21:55:16] <kbarry> My bad,
[21:55:20] <aa-danimal-shop> not sure what company it was, i just contacted a guy from the leadshine site
[21:55:21] <kbarry> No BOB then w/ Servos,
[21:55:38] <aa-danimal-shop> Chineese guy named Chris
[21:55:39] <SWPadnos> to choose a servo drive, you need to know the voltage and current ratings of the servo
[21:55:40] <kbarry> Everyone here, I am handing over my charge,
[21:55:46] <kbarry> If you want Steppers, i have info,
[21:55:54] <morfic> SWPadnos: the way a servo moves is by the number of +-10V phase changes?
[21:55:55] <kbarry> But i'm realizing i know Nothing about Servos.
[21:55:59] <SWPadnos> kbarry, not usually, unless you're using a step-to-servo drive, like a Gexko
[21:56:02] <aa-danimal-shop> They were very helpful, and i think i paid $89 each for the drives
[21:56:05] <kbarry> I think they uyse electricity
[21:56:30] <SWPadnos> morfic, no, the drive is usually a torque or velocity controller, and the +/- 10V is a command to go some speed or apply some amount of torque
[21:56:33] <Dave911> I'll send a note to Leadshine. I have heard good things about their drives.. $89 each is dirt cheap for a 7.5 amp stepper.
[21:57:02] <SWPadnos> err, Gecko, not Gexco
[21:57:09] <kbarry> Yea, i use Geckos
[21:57:11] <SWPadnos> or Gexko
[21:57:13] <SWPadnos> :)
[21:57:21] <Dave911> I contacted Leadshine a couple of years ago about selling to me directly and they would be if I had a bad drive shipping it back would kill me..
[21:57:51] <Dave911> Is that the mexican version of Gecko drives?? ;-)
[21:58:17] <morfic> SWPadnos: so the positioning is done by counting the encoder counts? and the drive is only turned on/off at a chosen speed/torque?
[21:58:22] <kbarry> no, your thinking of
[21:58:31] <kbarry> "Lizardo" drives.
[21:58:32] <kbarry> Baja
[21:58:33] <aa-danimal-shop> I've run mine for about a year
[21:58:37] <SWPadnos> morfic, yes, more or less
[21:58:39] <aa-danimal-shop> in production
[21:59:08] <aa-danimal-shop> it runs probably 4-6 hours a day, sometimes more
[21:59:16] <aa-danimal-shop> spindle time
[21:59:25] <SWPadnos> the control software in the PC (the PID loop in EMC2) gets a position command from the motion planner, and based on that it tells the motor to move at some speed to get to the commanded position
[21:59:39] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm usually anti chineese junk, but these work well
[21:59:56] <SWPadnos> it takes into account the feedback position as well - kind of like "I'm here and want to get there in 0.001 seconds, so I need to go this fast"
[22:00:45] <morfic> SWPadnos: so that is why all i see is boards that have input/output, it's in essence just turned on and off, with a lot of feedback/checking of actual vs commanded speeds/position
[22:01:08] <SWPadnos> no, it's not just on/off. it's an analog speed (or torque) command
[22:01:27] <SWPadnos> 1V means "go 1/10 speed forward"
[22:01:45] <SWPadnos> -6.32V means "go 63.2% backwards"
[22:01:48] <morfic> SWPadnos: emc2 does the to get from X0. Y0. to X2. Y-2. i turn on X for this long and Y for this long at 1/2 speed or 5V
[22:02:10] <SWPadnos> well, no, it's not timed or anything
[22:02:11] <morfic> 5V for X and -5V for Y
[22:02:14] <kbarry> thats where it Starts,
[22:02:19] <kbarry> But if it runs into resistance
[22:02:23] <kbarry> (like cutting stuff)
[22:02:31] <kbarry> then it may ramp up the voltage
[22:02:37] <kbarry> ro maintain a certain speed
[22:02:50] <kbarry> or because its not getting there, and needs more juice to follow the command
[22:03:00] <SWPadnos> 1000 times a second (or not, you can change it), it evaluates where each motor is and where each motor should be. it applies the PID coefficients you provided while tuning the axes, and generated a new command speed for each motor
[22:03:17] <SWPadnos> changing the voltage is usually the responsibility of the drive
[22:03:23] <SWPadnos> emc says "go this fast"
[22:03:30] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, i got my camera today... the olympus slr
[22:03:42] <SWPadnos> the drive, when there's resistance, will increase current to overcome that
[22:03:57] <SWPadnos> the drive also has PID loops to control torque or speed
[22:04:06] <SWPadnos> usually analog
[22:04:19] <SWPadnos> aa-danimal-shop, cool. have fun (once you charge the battery :) )
[22:04:28] <morfic> SWPadnos: so if i have a drive+servo combo, it's just a matter of "does it understand the +-10V i want to control it with?"
[22:04:42] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: which oly slr?
[22:05:02] <SWPadnos> a better question is "what do my drives need for me to control them?"
[22:05:18] <SWPadnos> +/-10V is pretty common, but not the only possibility
[22:05:36] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, charging it now! it looks brand new, came in all the original packaging
[22:05:44] <SWPadnos> it's also possible, but not common, that the motors have resolvers on them, or no encoders and the system uses linear scales
[22:05:47] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:05:54] <aa-danimal-shop> morfic, an e-510
[22:05:58] <morfic> SWPadnos: understood, i did think for second it's all it speaks
[22:06:23] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: should be fun, got a refurb E30+14-54 II, now oly and its sale makes the deal less hot than when i got it :P
[22:06:36] <SWPadnos> morfic, you need to take a good inventory of what's on each machine you might want to convert, and see what needs to be added or replaced, and also what hardware you need to interface to it
[22:07:31] <aa-danimal-shop> morfic, cool. i got the dual lens kit, so it has 14-42, and 40-150
[22:07:47] <morfic> SWPadnos: right, and since designer sent out emails to 3 companies already i thought i say "give me all the info about drives and servos" and get that, well i do have the drive/amplifier info and can work from there
[22:07:59] <kbarry> what is
[22:08:01] <kbarry> oly?
[22:08:09] <SWPadnos> Olympus
[22:08:12] <kbarry> ahhh
[22:08:14] <morfic> SWPadnos: it just looks like i will find a lot more info myself instead of thinking i can peruse previously collected data
[22:08:37] <SWPadnos> morfic, if you can see where the wires go, you may be able to tell if you need to augment the feedback system
[22:08:46] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: for what it's worth, i had a Pentax K20D and my friend's E520 images made me sell it all and get a E30
[22:08:50] <SWPadnos> look at the drives themselves, the terminals may be labeled
[22:09:22] <SWPadnos> if the tach inputs (assuming there are any) go to the control and not to the motor/machine, you'll need some special hardware
[22:09:28] <kbarry> thats the nice thing about industricl equipment
[22:09:32] <kbarry> (Labels)
[22:10:33] <morfic> SWPadnos: that's what i am hoping for, going in for overtime tomorrow, going to open control cabinet up and hope to see labels
[22:10:39] <kbarry> Are Step to drive controllers (Like Geckos) a problem?
[22:10:58] <aa-danimal-shop> morfic, cool, the e-520 is very similar to mine, just a hair newer
[22:11:00] <SWPadnos> kbarry, they're not a problem, but they're not ideal either
[22:11:10] <kbarry> why not?
[22:11:13] <aa-danimal-shop> i got a good deal on it on ebay (at least i think)
[22:11:23] <SWPadnos> for one thing, you can't adjust the P gain on them, so they always use the same amount of effort to get to the next step position
[22:12:07] <SWPadnos> if they're "big enough" for your motors, they're fine, but they aren't all that high voltage or current for Bridgeport or larger machines
[22:12:08] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: have you checked the olympus sales prices you can get from B&H/adorama/* right now, Oly lowered msrp and thus stuff is more dirt cheap than it already was
[22:12:33] <aa-danimal-shop> no i havent. i just got a used one on ebay
[22:12:56] <morfic> SWPadnos: but worst case i need to just add hardware and in the end setup emc2 for that and all is good (yes still trying to keep the sentences "light")
[22:13:06] <SWPadnos> pretty much
[22:13:17] <kbarry> Now,
[22:13:31] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: a 12-60 sold on ebay the other day used for $50 less than new, not a great deal if you ask me ($700 vs $750)
[22:13:35] <kbarry> the question i have is (geta s good grip on his chair) Why EMC as opposed to Mach3?
[22:13:50] <SWPadnos> kbarry, my understanding is that you get better finish with "real" servos vs. Geckos
[22:13:58] <SWPadnos> but I haven't set up a fair testbed to test that theory
[22:14:03] <SWPadnos> haha
[22:14:11] <SWPadnos> because it works, and it's free
[22:14:13] <SWPadnos> and Free
[22:14:20] <kbarry> what about Free?
[22:14:22] <kbarry> Does it cost?
[22:14:30] <kbarry> ;)
[22:14:43] <aa-danimal-shop> morfic, i got the camera and 2 lenses for $295
[22:14:48] <SWPadnos> ie, you're free to change it, distribute it, etc. It doesn't just have a zero dollar cost
[22:15:21] <SWPadnos> there are two reasons to use Mach: 1) you're afraid of Linux and/or you think you know how to work with Windows
[22:15:34] <kbarry> HAHAHAHAHA
[22:15:41] <kbarry> Good one.
[22:15:45] <SWPadnos> 2) there's something you do with Mach that works well for you, and you refuse to do it the "EMC2 way"
[22:15:53] <kbarry> I am Both,
[22:16:02] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: don't think that's easy to beat :) $480 for a new E520 dual lens kit on amazon
[22:16:20] <SWPadnos> I suppose there's a 3), which is that if you must have a screen designer like theirs (as opposed to writing something), then you have to use Mach
[22:16:35] <SWPadnos> (though that may change soon, as someone is working on a reconfigurable user interface)
[22:16:42] <kbarry> i hear about "Screens" but i dont know how to change them
[22:16:51] <aa-danimal-shop> morfic, it was used, but it looks new
[22:17:15] <SWPadnos> yeah - the lack of a screen designer is something that people mention, and there's really no equivalent for EMC2 at the moment
[22:17:18] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[22:18:08] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: most important bit is to use it now :)
[22:18:20] <aa-danimal-shop> gotta figure out how first!
[22:18:25] <Dave911> kbarry: The nice thing is that you can go use Mach3, spend the time and money and still come back and use EMC2 at the low low cost of free.. ;-) Microsoft would like you to believe that Linux is very hard to use .... look into my eyes ... believe believe ... ;-)
[22:18:30] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: first slr?
[22:18:46] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[22:19:11] <kbarry> why does one need a screen designer?
[22:19:17] <kbarry> to change the colors?
[22:19:26] <kbarry> Or is it for things like, adding/removing buttons?
[22:19:43] <morfic> aa-danimal-shop: step #1: Don;t think an slr does magic, know why it does what, when you hit limits of those mechanisms and what to do yourself to get around it
[22:20:43] <morfic> kbarry: i would think for screen layout
[22:21:17] <morfic> camsoft keeps on touting how all you need for them is use their bitmaps and zero programming to adjust the screen layout on their control
[22:21:28] <aa-danimal-shop> morfic, thanks, i know i have alot to learn!
[22:21:42] <Dave911> Linux installs much easier than Windows does. I hate installing windows. Major PITA... Activation.. etc.. yes, if you hiccup they can declare your system "non genuine" geez.... user friendly?? Maybe for Microsoft! MS sure doesn't make me feel secure.
[22:22:20] <mikegg> has anyone looked at implementing the CANopen interface for servo drives?
[22:25:40] <aa-danimal-shop> well my machine is still running. apparently it was indeed the heatsink
[22:28:13] <JT-Hardinge> I guess I plugged all the wires back ok... I seem to be here
[22:31:42] <kbarry> I've wanted to get more into linux,
[22:31:49] <kbarry> Using it in the shop sounds like a fund idea
[22:31:56] <kbarry> I guess i can setup a dual boot
[22:32:09] <kbarry> (To get my feet wet)
[22:32:19] <kbarry> You recommend ubuntu?
[22:32:26] <kbarry> actually
[22:32:46] <kbarry> I have a better question, What, if any, are the system requirements for it?
[22:33:05] <morfic> kbarry: once you get used to it, linux is linux, but for a first time user, ubuntu is certainly a good thing
[22:33:16] <morfic> kbarry: look into, what's it called, wibu?
[22:34:03] <morfic> wubi
[22:34:05] <morfic> http://wubi-installer.org/
[22:34:11] <kbarry> wait
[22:34:19] <morfic> kbarry: easy to nuke if you want to keep windows in the end
[22:34:21] <kbarry> its this is bootcamp/parallels, but for linux?
[22:34:53] <morfic> it just boots linux from a windows partition
[22:35:31] <kbarry> nice,
[22:35:37] <JT-Hardinge> kbarry: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_System_Requirements.html
[22:36:32] <JT-Hardinge> anyone know why I can't see any computers between my Ethernet Hub and my Broadband Router?
[22:38:33] <skunkworks> wrong glasses?
[22:39:03] <JT-Hardinge> I think I have the correct ones on
[22:39:40] <kbarry> You have multiple computer connected to the hub?
[22:39:44] <JT-Hardinge> all 4 computers can get to the internet which is connected to the Hub
[22:40:08] <JT-Hardinge> two computers to the hub and the router to the hub and internet to the hub
[22:40:14] <JT-Hardinge> is that wrong?
[22:41:07] <kbarry> the hub,
[22:41:12] <kbarry> its not cting as a DHCP?
[22:41:45] <JT-Hardinge> do I need two routers?
[22:42:11] <kbarry> you have 4 computers
[22:42:16] <kbarry> 2 are connected tot he hub,
[22:42:21] <kbarry> and 2 to the router its self?
[22:42:29] <kbarry> Is the Hub acting as a DHCP?
[22:42:45] <kbarry> Is the firewall turned off (Windows Firewall)
[22:43:15] <JT-Hardinge> I don't know what DHCP is
[22:43:29] <morfic> your router has no ports itself? only WAN and LAN?
[22:43:51] <JT-Hardinge> router has 4 ports and internet port
[22:44:13] <morfic> then plug computers in those 4 ports, and internet in the internet/wan port
[22:44:37] <morfic> plugging inet and router in hub defeats purpose of router?
[22:45:05] <JT-Hardinge> I only have one cable from here to there
[22:45:12] <kbarry> DHCP = Every computer needs an "Address", so the router knows WHO asked for WHAT (someone wants google, someone else wants abcnews, and the like)
[22:45:44] <JT-Hardinge> the internet works fine from all 4 computers
[22:45:56] <morfic> inet -> router <- all computers, router translates between inet and computers
[22:46:41] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: in the way you described it, they would all 4 have unique internet adresses, rather being on a LAN with the router doing network address translation
[22:47:21] <kbarry> #1, turn off Firewalls in Windows
[22:47:28] <kbarry> (Your using windows?)
[22:47:29] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, it appears the heatsink regreasing fixed my issue
[22:47:37] <JT-Hardinge> Dan cool
[22:47:51] <JT-Hardinge> kbarry: one computer is windoz the rest are Ubuntu
[22:48:27] <kbarry> What happens if all computers are connected to the Router?
[22:48:30] <kbarry> Secondly,
[22:48:36] <kbarry> I don't know anything about pinux,
[22:48:40] <kbarry> I can't even spell linux,
[22:48:48] <JT-Hardinge> I can't physically do that
[22:48:58] <morfic> thanks aa-danimal-shop, reminds me to take heatsink paste to work
[22:49:02] <kbarry> how many computers are connected to the router?
[22:49:11] <kbarry> and what model is this "Hub?"
[22:49:52] <Valen> I'll wager its a switch and "internet in" is a modem
[22:49:59] <Valen> modem doing the work
[22:50:03] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: hub should be on port side of router and inet go into inet side of router if it is a physical limitation, that the computers go to hub, the router should be by inet to get the computers online
[22:50:07] <Valen> that or its a router and there is a modem as well
[22:50:31] <morfic> Valen: <JT-Hardinge> all 4 computers can get to the internet which is connected to the Hub
[22:50:32] <morfic> <JT-Hardinge> two computers to the hub and the router to the hub and internet to the hub
[22:51:00] <JT-Hardinge> 2 computers connected to the router and the hub is a Netgear Ethernet hub EN 104
[22:51:06] <Valen> I dunno I came in on the end of it all
[22:51:19] <Valen> whats the problem?
[22:51:39] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: what are the IP addresses of the 4 computers?
[22:51:54] <JT-Hardinge> I have 2 computers here and 2 downstairs with one line between locations
[22:52:26] <morfic> 2 to router (they are close to router), 2 to hub (they are from from router) and internet into router's internet port (is close to router)
[22:52:43] <morfic> connect hub to router port as "3rd port"
[22:53:06] <JT-Hardinge> not as internet connection?
[22:53:12] <JT-Hardinge> as it is now
[22:53:19] <Valen> no
[22:53:25] <Valen> you will be doing double NAT
[22:53:30] <JT-Hardinge> that might be the problem
[22:53:33] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: you have it this way since you also falsely connected internet to hub
[22:54:00] <Valen> JT-Hardinge you have a modem with some ports on it and some kind of router?
[22:54:06] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: the 2 upstairs go straight to inet, the bottom two get NAT to internat, but the bottom 2 computers will not see the upstairs to
[22:54:07] <JT-Hardinge> let me go switch that out and see what I get
[22:54:12] <Valen> wait a sec
[22:54:26] <Valen> if its a router then you could have another problem with that
[22:54:28] <JT-Hardinge> the internet is a wireless on a tower with a cat5 down to my shop
[22:55:01] <Valen> morfic, thinking dhcp if he has 2 "router" type devices
[22:55:09] <Valen> it could take his whole net down lol
[22:55:19] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: where is inet coming in (upstairs/downastairs) and where is router (upstairs/downstairs)
[22:55:28] <Valen> JT-Hardinge: whats the make and model of the boxes you have
[22:55:30] <kbarry> the hub isnt a DHCP
[22:55:35] <JT-Hardinge> inet comes in upstairs to hub
[22:55:36] <kbarry> I just checked
[22:55:38] <Valen> modems switches etc
[22:55:44] <kbarry> so the Router is running the DHCP
[22:55:48] <morfic> Valen: yes, if he gets inet into router and nowhere else, than the 4 computers get dhcp from router and he will be fine
[22:56:03] <kbarry> even if he connects the hubs to the router,
[22:56:11] <kbarry> the hub will provide additional ports to the router
[22:56:13] <morfic> i think right now he uses 3 inet addresses from tower/wifi and 2 LAN addresses from router
[22:56:25] <kbarry> and the router will just assign additional DHCPs to the connected device
[22:56:34] <Valen> yeah, I'm just wanting to make sure all these hubs and routers etc are actually hubs and routers
[22:56:40] <morfic> kbarry: he connected hub to inet port, not to the LAN ports where it should be plugged
[22:56:46] <JT-Hardinge> I wish I knew what you guys were talking about LOL
[22:56:55] <kbarry> hahahahahaha
[22:56:57] <kbarry> OPK
[22:56:59] <kbarry> OK
[22:57:01] <kbarry> On the ROUTER
[22:57:02] <Valen> JT-Hardinge: can you tell us what the actual boxes you have are
[22:57:08] <kbarry> It has 1 input, and 4 outputs
[22:57:09] <morfic> Valen: cat5 from tower into router inet port
[22:57:13] <kbarry> 5 ports in all,
[22:57:24] <kbarry> The "Internet" or WAN Port,on the router
[22:57:34] <JT-Hardinge> cat5 from tower to hub RX Link
[22:57:37] <kbarry> that should be connected to the phone luine, or a wire from a modem,
[22:57:47] <JT-Hardinge> no modem
[22:57:47] <morfic> all else into LAN ports on router, if two go into hub upstairs, run one line downstairs and plug that into lan side on router
[22:57:49] <kbarry> ok
[22:57:53] <kbarry> so the Router is a modem,
[22:57:56] <kbarry> Find,
[22:58:04] <Valen> thats what I'm saying we are operating blind
[22:58:05] <kbarry> The phone cabl,e (or Cable) goes to the WAN port
[22:58:16] <kbarry> (might be called Internet)
[22:58:18] <Valen> we need a network diagram, and to know what these boxes are
[22:58:27] <kbarry> Whats the MODEL of the Router?
[22:58:31] <morfic> ok, he has 3 people talk AT HIM right now, i am going to tune out and hope kbarry is better at lans than servos ;)
[22:58:44] <JT-Hardinge> linksys Wireless-G Braoadband router
[22:58:52] <Valen> I do small network setups for a living ;->
[22:58:54] <JT-Hardinge> lol
[22:59:11] <kbarry> Ouch.
[22:59:20] <JT-Hardinge> let me draw something up and post it on pastebin
[22:59:30] <kbarry> Valen gets this one,
[22:59:32] <Valen> its ok, just tell us the boxes
[22:59:32] <JT-Hardinge> give me a few minutes
[22:59:45] <Valen> that should be enough
[22:59:45] <kbarry> EN 104 is the Hub
[22:59:49] <JT-Hardinge> by boxes the hub and router
[22:59:50] <morfic> Valen: he should call his ISP and ask them if they will charge him for using 3 IPs from them right now
[22:59:57] <kbarry> the HUB is: EN 104
[23:00:07] <Valen> kbarry are you there or something?
[23:00:21] <kbarry> I asked him earlier,
[23:00:27] <JT-Hardinge> I told him earlier
[23:00:27] <Jymmm> Hey, what are some uses for quicklime?
[23:00:29] <kbarry> And he gave me the model of the hub,
[23:00:31] <kbarry> thats why i know.
[23:00:34] <Valen> lol I was just wondering
[23:00:42] <kbarry> quicklime?
[23:00:45] <kbarry> you mean quicktime?
[23:00:47] <Valen> Jymmm: preserving bodies?
[23:01:02] <Jymmm> Valen: Nah, burning bodies maybe =)
[23:01:04] <Valen> ok JT-Hardinge whats your internet in?
[23:01:33] <JT-Hardinge> Valen: the internet is a wireless tower that has a cat5 cable to my hub here in the shop
[23:01:37] <Jymmm> Valen: quicklime will eat bone, but I want to know OTHER uses for it.
[23:01:47] <Valen> whats a wireless tower?
[23:02:06] <Jymmm> An access point
[23:02:08] <JT-Hardinge> the only problem I have is seeing the upstairs computers from downstairs and the other way round
[23:02:24] <kbarry> (I think he is saying its a Router thats stands on its side (as in a Computer Toyer)
[23:02:32] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: because of the way you have the hub plugged into the router;s inet port
[23:02:32] <JT-Hardinge> I have a tower at the top of the hill and it is a line of sight to another tower up the way
[23:02:58] <morfic> run the inet from tower to router's inet, then plug the hub to the LAN port side of the router
[23:03:09] <Valen> ok so what is this wireless tower then?
[23:03:12] <Valen> model
[23:03:37] <Valen> also on the computers downstairs what ip addresses do they have
[23:03:43] <JT-Hardinge> I don't know the antenna is 30' up the tower and is powered by the cat5 cable
[23:03:44] <Valen> output of ifconfig
[23:03:54] <Valen> ok right getting there now
[23:04:13] <Valen> so you only have that netgear router thing and a switch?
[23:04:27] <Valen> linksys router sorry
[23:04:40] <JT-Hardinge> here on the Hardinge computer http://pastebin.com/am9m9nN8
[23:05:06] <JT-Hardinge> the netgear is an Ethernet Hub model EN 104
[23:05:09] <Valen> right that has a public ip address, thats not a good thing as a rule
[23:05:33] <Valen> my suggestion is to do it this way
[23:05:48] <Valen> your internet in goes into the wan port of your linksys
[23:06:16] <Valen> connect the computers to that and the switch as well
[23:06:24] <JT-Hardinge> no it goes into the netgear hub
[23:06:35] <Valen> I'm saying you need to change that
[23:07:05] <JT-Hardinge> I only have one cat5 between here and downstairs
[23:07:13] <Valen> thats ok
[23:07:38] <Valen> you need the router to route your internet connection
[23:07:43] <morfic> problem is the cat5 from tower needs to go to router, not hub
[23:08:08] <JT-Hardinge> so I need a router out here and chuck the hub?
[23:08:14] <Valen> keep the hub
[23:08:18] <Valen> swap them over
[23:08:31] <JT-Hardinge> I need the wireless inside the house for my wifes laptop
[23:08:47] <Valen> phone one sec
[23:08:50] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[23:09:10] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: keep where router is at, just run from tower to router, not to hub
[23:12:29] <JT-Hardinge> morfic: that's too far for the cat5e
[23:12:36] <Valen> the problem your having is the computers on the hub are getting public ip addresses, thats a bad thing
[23:12:43] <Valen> cat5 can run 100m
[23:12:57] <Valen> though with your power over ethernet that may be reduced
[23:13:03] <JT-Hardinge> exactly
[23:13:31] <JT-Hardinge> I had to be within 300' to the antenna or install a booster thingy
[23:13:37] <JT-Hardinge> with 120vac
[23:13:38] <morfic> JT-Hardinge: right now, you ask your ISP for 3 unique internet addresses, they will cut you off or charge you, depends on who they are and how they do it, no isp these days gives IP addresses out for free past the one you pay for
[23:13:56] <JT-Hardinge> no complaints yet from them
[23:13:57] <Valen> how far from the switch is the area you need your wireless?
[23:14:08] <JT-Hardinge> about 200'
[23:14:25] <JT-Hardinge> through two walls
[23:14:29] <Valen> yeah thats too far for the wireless
[23:14:56] <Valen> In a situation like that I've been dodgy and run 2 ethernet connections through the one cable
[23:15:00] <Valen> hmm
[23:15:16] <Valen> ok I think I have it
[23:15:20] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[23:15:21] <Valen> possibly
[23:15:30] <Valen> its more work but still
[23:15:41] <Valen> If you take out dhcp
[23:15:43] <JT-Hardinge> if I need another router I can get one
[23:16:02] <Valen> and manually set up all the clients you can do it with what you have
[23:16:09] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[23:16:15] <Valen> does your wife take her laptop to other places?
[23:16:29] <JT-Hardinge> no, never leaves the couch LOL
[23:16:39] <Valen> i meant other houses/offices etc
[23:16:44] <JT-Hardinge> no
[23:16:48] <Valen> ok
[23:17:30] <Valen> what we do is turn dhcp off in the router, leaving all the other stuff on, then plug the hub into the LAN port
[23:17:52] <Valen> so it goes internet > hub | 2 computers > router | 2 computers
[23:18:02] <Valen> leave the wan port empty on the router
[23:18:13] <Valen> I hope lol
[23:18:21] <JT-Hardinge> by wan you mean the one marked internet
[23:18:25] <Valen> yes
[23:18:31] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[23:18:33] <JT-Hardinge> brb
[23:18:41] <Valen> dont do it yet
[23:18:44] <Valen> this is complex lol
[23:19:46] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I didn't read all the way through this network thing - what's the current setup?
[23:19:57] <Valen> internet > hub | 2 computers > router | 2 computers
[23:20:15] <Valen> problem is internet in is giving public ip addresses to the first 2 computers
[23:20:16] <SWPadnos> ah
[23:20:19] <SWPadnos> right
[23:20:27] <Valen> and he needs the 2nd 2 to talk to the first
[23:20:44] <Valen> the router needs to stay where it is for wireless lovin
[23:21:01] <Valen> I'm thinking if he manually assigns everything then he can run the public internet to the router
[23:21:03] <SWPadnos> yes, plugging the computers and hub into non-WAN ports on the router will do it, as long as the ISP doesn't care about how many IP addresses it hands out
[23:21:18] <SWPadnos> that's not all that firewall-y
[23:21:33] <SWPadnos> it's a little better to have a NAT in there somewhere
[23:21:36] <Valen> not paticularly but as long as he isnt processing credit cards
[23:21:46] <Valen> he will have nat from the router
[23:22:06] <SWPadnos> not if there's nothing plugged into the WAN port and DHCP is turned off (as it needs to be)
[23:22:09] <Valen> its just the public and private packets will be sharing the intertubes on the way out
[23:22:31] <Valen> yeah I was hoping the router would be smart enough to see that
[23:22:56] <SWPadnos> that's a weird setup - the router will expect that it's the gateway and try to rebroadcast everything on the WAN port
[23:23:08] <Valen> not if its not plugged in
[23:23:18] <SWPadnos> and the computers would all need two addresses as well, so they could talk to each other and to the net
[23:23:27] <Valen> no, they all talk to the router
[23:23:32] <SWPadnos> no
[23:23:56] <Valen> yes, manually set them up with the routers private IP as default gateway
[23:24:06] <SWPadnos> the router will most likely only route packets between the LAN and WAN, not between LAN ports
[23:24:14] <skunkworks> I wonder what the protoal is - does the nic look for a public ip first... Then if there isn't one - then looks for a private one?
[23:24:15] <Valen> might need to set the routers firewall to off if thats possible and plug into wan
[23:24:24] <SWPadnos> the router won't do that, unless it's hacked
[23:24:42] <Valen> it sends a broadcast to and whoever replies with an ip address first wins
[23:25:22] <SWPadnos> but the router only does that on its WAN port
[23:25:25] <Valen> I have seen some where there is a checkbox to turn the firewall on/off
[23:25:28] <SWPadnos> it's not a DHCP client on its LAN ports
[23:25:53] <SWPadnos> it's a client on the WAN and a server on the LAN (both optional, most likely)
[23:26:20] <jthornton> I'm downstairs and when I tried to connect the hub to a port I lost the internet
[23:27:20] <SWPadnos> all the hub does is allow you to connect several things together. if there's a spot where you can plug in a PC and internet works, you can plug in a hub and internet will work for all the computers you plug into the hub
[23:27:23] <Valen> yeah, there is a lot more setup needed to get it to work
[23:27:39] <SWPadnos> (assuming that the DHCP server likes handing out all those IP addresses)
[23:27:40] <Valen> it would be easiest if you got that other router
[23:27:51] <SWPadnos> is the router the only thing that has wifi?
[23:27:52] <Valen> it'd all be plug and pray then
[23:27:54] <Valen> yeah
[23:28:02] <Valen> and its 200 feet away
[23:28:04] <jthornton> yes
[23:28:11] <SWPadnos> ok, and the internet "input" is not near the place(s) where wifi is needed?
[23:28:16] <jthornton> double yes on plug and pray
[23:28:20] <Valen> yeah
[23:28:21] <jthornton> SWPadnos: no
[23:28:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[23:28:39] <Valen> internet comes in to where the hub is
[23:29:01] <Valen> If it were me I'd run 2 ethernets over the one cat 5
[23:29:27] <jthornton> I can pull out the one and pull back two with no problem I think
[23:29:29] <SWPadnos> yeah, you could do that - inet -> router and back to hub
[23:30:03] <Valen> that would work fine
[23:30:18] <jthornton> so the inet should go to the router and the hub plugged into a port
[23:30:22] <SWPadnos> so the physical layout of clients is internet feed near a couple of clients, and also somewhere near where wifi clients attach, and then far away are more clients?
[23:30:24] <Valen> yeah
[23:30:38] <SWPadnos> or is it more like inet near a few clients, then more clients and wifi clients far away?
[23:30:44] <jthornton> far from the wifi client
[23:30:45] <Valen> option 2
[23:30:53] <jthornton> yep
[23:30:58] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:31:03] <SWPadnos> best thing is to get another router :)
[23:31:13] <Valen> thats the easiest
[23:31:17] <SWPadnos> or run two wires, but that's probably not far off in cost actually
[23:31:26] <Valen> can you even get non wifi routers these days?
[23:31:38] <SWPadnos> once you do that, set the wifi router into bridge mode and turn off dhcp
[23:31:41] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:31:43] <jthornton> ok, I have plenty of wire and can get a router
[23:31:57] <Valen> you only need one or the other
[23:32:41] <jthornton> I'll pull out the cat5e and phone and pull back two cat5e with the phone then
[23:33:15] <SWPadnos> this will use an extra port on the wifi/router
[23:33:20] <SWPadnos> just so you know
[23:33:37] <jthornton> I have two empty ports on the wife router
[23:33:44] <SWPadnos> you'll be connecting the internet feed to the WAN port of the wifi router, and the other cable will run from one of the LAN ports to the hub
[23:33:49] <SWPadnos> oooh, empty wife ports :)
[23:34:01] <SWPadnos> better fill those
[23:34:06] <jthornton> wife on couch
[23:34:19] <SWPadnos> that works
[23:34:33] <jthornton> ok, that sounds like a good plan thanks guys
[23:34:50] <jthornton> seems like we did the same thing at our other shop
[23:35:18] <Valen> you can run phone through the cat 5 if your wiring it yourself
[23:35:30] <SWPadnos> unless it's gigE - that uses all 4 pairs
[23:35:34] <Valen> are you making your own cables?
[23:35:35] <Valen> yeah
[23:35:37] <jthornton> yes
[23:35:39] <SWPadnos> and it's a PITA to terminate
[23:35:51] <Valen> its not a pita, it just looks like crap ;->
[23:36:06] <Valen> or you could do this http://www.cabling-design.com/references/pinouts/split.shtml
[23:36:17] <jthornton> my buddy is a retired phone guy so he does the phone when I can't make it work :)
[23:36:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:36:53] <jthornton> but he won't bring any tools he want's to use mine as they are new with little usage
[23:37:15] <Valen> jthornton could you wire up a cable like that link I just posted?
[23:37:17] <jthornton> I have a 3/4 pvc conduit between shop and house
[23:37:34] <jthornton> yes
[23:37:35] <Valen> cos you could do that now if you have the gear and be done
[23:37:36] <skunkworks> * skunkworks hugs his fluke network tools.
[23:38:06] <SWPadnos> only if it's not GigE, and never will be
[23:38:20] <jthornton> I have plenty of blue hose as we call it
[23:38:30] <Valen> he has a 100mbit hub in there so I doubt it ;->
[23:38:58] <SWPadnos> ah
[23:39:04] <jthornton> and I'm very anal retentive so ... do it right when I can
[23:39:15] <Valen> yeah, then do the 2 cables then
[23:39:26] <jthornton> I only have a 512 inet connection
[23:39:58] <jthornton> but much better than my 56k modem before that tied up the phone line
[23:40:41] <SWPadnos> PC to PC copying is definitely faster with gigE - internet doesn't matter
[23:40:58] <Valen> PC - PC isn't that much faster, unless your moving movies ;->
[23:41:07] <Valen> even then its normally only 2-3x
[23:41:08] <SWPadnos> or CD ISOs
[23:41:17] <Valen> it usually seems to top out at 30mbyte/sec
[23:41:18] <jthornton> so to get gigE I need a newer router to replace the hub
[23:41:23] <SWPadnos> not under Linux, but that is true if you have very slow hard drives
[23:41:28] <Valen> you probably need new everything
[23:41:37] <Valen> this is with linux, netcat for the transfer
[23:41:38] <SWPadnos> not for me. I get 70-90MB/s or more
[23:41:39] <jthornton> the wifi is new
[23:41:41] <Jymmm> Hub? WTH???
[23:41:53] <Valen> I think its actually a switch
[23:41:54] <Jymmm> throw that shit out the window!
[23:42:04] <jthornton> Jymmm: I live out in the woods on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road
[23:42:16] <SWPadnos> it's actually a hub
[23:42:25] <Jymmm> jthornton: Fine, then throw it on the dirt road!
[23:42:28] <jthornton> what's the difference
[23:42:36] <SWPadnos> complete with BNC and uplink button :)
[23:42:41] <jthornton> road too far from house
[23:42:44] <jthornton> yep
[23:42:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Stop it, you know it's AUI
[23:42:52] <Valen> a hub is like an old fashioned plug board
[23:42:53] <SWPadnos> a hub physically connects the ports together in the same collision domain
[23:43:11] <Valen> with an operator to plug the people who want to talk togther
[23:43:14] <SWPadnos> a switch separates the collision domains, allowing you to have larger networks
[23:43:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You HAd to go there, didn't you
[23:43:32] <Valen> a switch takes a message then passes it on to the person your trying to talk to when they are free
[23:43:53] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks SWPadnos with a box of AUI transceivers!
[23:44:12] <SWPadnos> also as Valen said, a switch can basically connect several pairs of computers together, as though they were separate little twop-node networks, which allows them to use full duplex sognaling (which you can't do with a hub)
[23:44:23] <SWPadnos> I need no AUI, TYVM
[23:44:25] <Valen> problem with the hub is the operator is really dumb, and if somebody tries to talk while your having a conversation with somebody else it just screws everything up
[23:45:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Keep it up and I'll rewire your setup for localtalk! and I have 3000ft of CAT3 to do it too!
[23:45:02] <SWPadnos> eek. that's a 10baseT hub, not even 10/100
[23:45:09] <jthornton> so something like this to replace the hub http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122111
[23:45:13] <Valen> dear lord
[23:45:26] <Valen> its overkill
[23:45:29] <SWPadnos> jthornton, I'd strongly suggest getting a gigE or at least 10/100 router to replace the hub
[23:45:31] <Valen> but yes it would do the job
[23:45:39] <skunkworks> When I hooked up a long distance network for internet - I used 10baseT because I could get around 1000ft before I had to hook another hub in.
[23:45:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: And 802.11a too
[23:46:05] <jthornton> like this guy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124005
[23:46:08] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, if you had used switches, you could have gone as far as you want (you just need another one every 100 meters)
[23:46:17] <frallzor> hmm anyone know where to get thos T-slot profiles you just mill a pocket for and glue/screw it in
[23:46:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Mmmmmm GBIC's
[23:46:41] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: but I didn't want to put on ever 300ft... ;)
[23:46:44] <jthornton> frallzor: for wood tables?
[23:46:44] <skunkworks> every
[23:46:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 10GigE FTW!!!
[23:46:52] <frallzor> jthornton yes
[23:47:03] <SWPadnos> jthornton, the GS108 is a great hub, if it's anything like the 4-port and 12-port versions
[23:47:03] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, yeah yeah
[23:47:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Oh, did I tell you my latest toy?
[23:47:19] <SWPadnos> no
[23:47:23] <SWPadnos> no no no no
[23:47:28] <SWPadnos> err, no, go ahead
[23:47:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Cisco 3550 =)
[23:47:45] <jthornton> frallzor: http://www.rockler.com/index.cfm?keyword=rockler&ne_ppc_id=776&ne_key_id=3427785&gclid=CKDRoJ_f8KACFRXyDAodPiinSg
[23:47:47] <SWPadnos> ooohhh aaaahhhh
[23:47:49] <SWPadnos> is that good?
[23:48:08] <frallzor> jthornton what to look for there?
[23:48:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Gig switch with dual fiber modules, can turn it into a router if I load IOS on it
[23:48:26] <jthornton> the t slots
[23:48:35] <SWPadnos> oh. cool
[23:48:36] <frallzor> link just goes to main page =)
[23:49:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I need one more so I can run fiber to the back =) My friend has a couple coming up too
[23:50:19] <SWPadnos> I don't want to know about the fiber in the back
[23:50:23] <SWPadnos> just don't need to know
[23:50:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 10GigE Baby!!!
[23:51:43] <Valen> I don't like cisco
[23:51:58] <Valen> I wish there was somebody who made decent hardware that ran linux
[23:52:05] <Valen> with the right accessories
[23:52:16] <Jymmm> Valen: What does linux have todo with Cisco?
[23:52:29] <Valen> I'd rather run linux than IOS
[23:54:04] <Valen> I think I offended him ;-P
[23:59:32] <mozmck2> yuck - looks like you can't uninstall plymouth from lucid