#emc | Logs for 2010-03-26

[00:00:02] <pfred1> I run the wheel backwards
[00:00:03] <andypugh> I don't own a mask..
[00:00:30] <andypugh> But then I grind a point no more than once a month.
[00:00:35] <pfred1> and i have a dedicated grinder for doing tungstens on
[00:00:53] <pfred1> I do nothing on that wheel but tungstens
[00:01:35] <pfred1> yeah only time i weld anymore is when something is broken i don't fabricate much with welding
[00:02:01] <pfred1> sometimes some things there is no getting around it but I prefer drilling and bolting
[00:02:08] <alex_joni> ever tried Zr ones?
[00:02:22] <alex_joni> I think they are brown (the color code at the end)
[00:02:39] <pfred1> I only have a box of 2%ers
[00:02:42] <andypugh> I don't even know what the different types are for.
[00:02:58] <andypugh> I have read it, but fogotten it again.
[00:03:11] <pfred1> I think my machine came with one plain electrode
[00:03:11] <alex_joni> Thorium ones are for DC welding
[00:03:20] <alex_joni> the plain ones suck big time
[00:03:36] <alex_joni> but remember that Thorium is a "bit" radioactive
[00:03:40] <andypugh> So, thoriated is not great for ali?
[00:03:45] <alex_joni> so I'd still use a mask for grinding them
[00:03:52] <pfred1> alex_joni so's Grand Central Station
[00:03:58] <alex_joni> andypugh: the theory says it's not best for AC
[00:04:19] <alex_joni> but otoh the most our customers use are Red (iso)
[00:04:27] <alex_joni> that means 2% ThO2
[00:04:40] <pfred1> thats what mine have is a red band
[00:04:57] <alex_joni> I just checked.. red for AWS too
[00:05:12] <andypugh> Interesting fact. If we switched all the world's power stations to uranium fusion tomorrow, we would run out of uranium in a few tens of years. If they can make thorium fusion work, then known reserves will last 10,000 years.
[00:05:15] <pfred1> whats AWS?
[00:05:16] <alex_joni> (obviously americans need to have their own standard for everything)
[00:05:34] <alex_joni> American Welding Society
[00:05:55] <alex_joni> andypugh: lets switch it to solar
[00:06:03] <alex_joni> then it runs out in a couple more years
[00:06:13] <pfred1> alex_joni trouble with solar is its there when you need it least
[00:06:23] <Valen> phat batteries
[00:06:34] <andypugh> I think we need rain-powered cells on the roofs here in the UK
[00:06:43] <Valen> I reckon we should be spending gigabucks on all forms of fusion power
[00:07:08] <pfred1> best plan i heard for solar pumped water into a lake then ran it into this huge underground cavern at night then the next day pumped it back up again
[00:07:48] <Valen> need a large number of convineantly located caverns
[00:07:59] <pfred1> oh this cavern was man made
[00:08:09] <andypugh> Or use a lake up a mountain.
[00:08:24] <andypugh> There are schemes which store pressurised air in caverns.
[00:08:29] <pfred1> it was an awesome project
[00:08:37] <Valen> blowout in one of those would be exciting
[00:08:50] <andypugh> And there has been a pumped-storage hydro scheme in Wales for 50 years.
[00:08:52] <alex_joni> heh
[00:08:58] <alex_joni> geothermal works fine too
[00:09:06] <Valen> we have one here as part of the snowy scheme I believe
[00:09:15] <pfred1> alex_joni but does geo thermal cause earthquakes?
[00:09:23] <alex_joni> it's not that deep
[00:09:29] <alex_joni> 50-100m tops
[00:09:39] <Valen> probably used mostly in areas where there are lots of earthquakes
[00:09:45] <pfred1> alex_joni heh i read a headline like that recently I didn't evne bother to read the article
[00:09:51] <alex_joni> I saw a working design with lots of solar panels which used to store the heat into the ground
[00:09:57] <alex_joni> then extracted it in the winter
[00:10:13] <andypugh> There is a geothermal scheme that is on hold while they figure out if it was the cause of a mud volcano
[00:10:23] <alex_joni> it was heating an entire village, also getting the heat from solarpanels mounted on all the houses
[00:10:25] <pfred1> what does keep the Earth's core hot I mean you'd think it'd have cooled off by now
[00:11:12] <andypugh> Partly nuclear reactions, partly tidal stirring by the moon.
[00:11:27] <pfred1> oh come on the Moon?
[00:11:57] <pfred1> but i have heard the nuclear reaction thing
[00:12:48] <pfred1> what i do know iswe do need a lot more cheap safe energy than we have now
[00:12:58] <andypugh> Energy = force x distance. The rock-tide isn't as high as the sea-tide but that is still a collossal force over a finite distance.
[00:13:28] <pfred1> eventually the Moon will break free of Earth orbit
[00:13:36] <pfred1> it is spinning away from us
[00:14:03] <Valen> moves the crust of the earth up and down by about 50cm
[00:14:12] <pfred1> but i don't think anyone here has to worry about the day that happens
[00:14:32] <Valen> but yeah current theory is most of the heat energy in the earths core is nuclear
[00:14:51] <pfred1> Valen thats just crazy!
[00:15:14] <pfred1> lets hope it all doesn't settle in the middle of the planet
[00:15:17] <Valen> its over a pretty large area ;->
[00:16:10] <pfred1> I think because of the Moon is why life evolved on this planet
[00:16:17] <pfred1> tides and what not
[00:16:22] <toastydeath> http://img.alibaba.com/photo/108944598/Rotary_Forging_Machine_as_GFM_.jpg
[00:16:27] <Valen> http://www.physorg.com/news62952904.html
[00:16:52] <pfred1> toastydeath thats just great throw one in my back yard will ya?
[00:17:00] <andypugh> I saw a machine like that at Forgemasters in Sheffield, It made a hell of a noise.
[00:17:31] <Valen> yah 90% of the heat is nuclear
[00:17:32] <pfred1> andypugh so does my neighbor when he gets all drunked up and shoots his guns
[00:17:39] <Valen> hah suck on that enviroweenies ;->
[00:18:50] <andypugh> Actually, it's probably not quite the same, I think in the Forgemasters one the hammers rotated and the billet stayed still.
[00:19:22] <pfred1> OK there's three guys hanging out in the little booth but what are they all up to?
[00:19:34] <Valen> watching the show
[00:19:45] <toastydeath> controlling the radial forge and the manipulator
[00:19:58] <pfred1> thing looks empty to me
[00:20:11] <toastydeath> look in front of the manipulator.
[00:20:30] <pfred1> the yellow Zamboni looking contraption?
[00:20:33] <toastydeath> yes
[00:20:54] <toastydeath> directly in front of it, in line with the forge.
[00:20:59] <pfred1> at least two of those guys have their backs to the job
[00:21:19] <pfred1> no, all three of them are looking away!
[00:21:22] <toastydeath> uh.
[00:21:32] <andypugh> what surprised me was that they would take a huge billet of metal out of the furnace, and leave it there while they went for lunch. A bit different from doing stuff at home where if it is still hot when it gets to the anvil you are doing well.
[00:21:32] <pfred1> must be a cute girl walking by fro mthe office or something
[00:21:55] <toastydeath> yeah, I always wondered how long they have between heats
[00:22:02] <toastydeath> i guess many hours
[00:22:28] <pfred1> I worked with a guy what worked in a steel mill he said just putting plate through the rollers heated it up
[00:22:42] <pfred1> they'd cook their lunches on the plates
[00:24:23] <pfred1> hey there's even another guy on the right of this pic but he's all blurry
[00:24:40] <pfred1> and he's looking away from the work too!
[00:49:39] <pfred1> andypugh did you see my new board art?
[00:49:50] <andypugh> No, sorry.
[00:50:02] <pfred1> http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3529/saa1027brd.png
[00:50:20] <andypugh> Pretty.
[00:50:26] <pfred1> thanks
[00:50:32] <pfred1> it looks like i can handle making that
[00:50:33] <andypugh> SMT saves drilling though :-)
[00:50:47] <pfred1> I'm too old and shakey for that stuff anymore
[00:51:11] <pfred1> I'd be doing lots of dep knee bends picking up parts off the floor I can't even see!
[00:51:25] <pfred1> that and i don't stock any SMT
[00:51:45] <pfred1> I did it years ago at a board fab house and just grew not ot like the stuff
[00:51:53] <andypugh> Hmm. Is £50 a good price for 3 x 500W servo motors? (1.3Nm / 7.5Nm)
[00:52:13] <pfred1> whats that in USD?
[00:52:21] <andypugh> $65
[00:52:28] <pfred1> they new?
[00:52:38] <andypugh> No, rather second hand.
[00:52:45] <pfred1> how second hand?
[00:52:56] <pfred1> like they all work right?
[00:53:00] <andypugh> I would have bought them by now if I was sure how to drive them.
[00:53:09] <andypugh> The big problem is resolver feedback.
[00:53:19] <pfred1> isn't it?
[00:53:25] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-X-Quality-Lenze-Servo-Motors-CNC-3-AXIS-MACHINE-USED_W0QQitemZ250601674134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET?hash=item3a59061596#ht_500wt_1137
[00:53:34] <pfred1> BTW driving servos is a piece of cake they run just like DC motors
[00:53:46] <pfred1> driving them with any kind of positional accuracy is another matter entirely
[00:54:45] <andypugh> These are AC servos with resolvers, I am not clear how you drive them. (Brushless DC I understand)
[00:54:51] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:54:52] <pfred1> andypugh pfft time left 25 days who knows what they'll be by then?
[00:55:09] <andypugh> £50 Buy-it-now
[00:55:17] <pfred1> oh well then
[00:55:44] <pfred1> These are quality units. Would cost a fortune new.
[00:56:23] <pfred1> the controllersl ook like they'd cost a fortune
[00:56:51] <andypugh> Yes, but we don't need smart controllers, EMC2 does all that.
[00:57:21] <pfred1> andypugh OK find out just what kind of controllers you'd need then
[00:57:43] <pfred1> because like you said these are AC not DC that might matter a lot
[00:58:00] <andypugh> Indeed, and resover feedback does not play well with EMC2
[00:58:24] <pfred1> yeah who needs a matched set of 3 paper weights?
[00:59:05] <pfred1> lets just say this if they were that great a deal someone would snatch them up in short order
[00:59:27] <andypugh> Especially when I have a perfectly good CNC machine already, that doesn't need any more "Upgrades"
[00:59:29] <pfred1> so maybe there is a gotcha in there somewhere?
[01:00:23] <pfred1> yeah with stuff like that i like to see a clear path before i start out
[01:00:44] <pfred1> and AC might be quite the roadblock I donno
[01:02:14] <pfred1> all I know is I design sexy boards anymore!
[01:02:16] <andypugh> Yeah, looking into it the drives are a bit more complicated than BLDC
[01:02:31] <andypugh> Time to sleep instead.
[01:02:42] <pfred1> I thought i was good a dozen boards ago I just keep on getting better at it though
[01:20:01] <Jymmm> I can actually SEE 12 sq ft of my workbench! I haven't seen that since I moved in
[01:20:21] <pfred1> Jymmm are you feeling OK?
[01:20:55] <atmega> I cleaned off about 4ft^2 the other day so I would have a place to put stuff
[01:21:13] <Jymmm> Yep, been cleaning out and getting rid of shit
[01:21:24] <Jymmm> I'm just waiting for rush hour traffic to get over with, I want to drop off cans of coffee at the shelter.
[01:21:30] <pfred1> I have spots that are intentionally for clutter and other spots that i try to keep clear to work on
[01:22:02] <Jymmm> pfred1: That' why I got that 5 drawer filing cabinet last week
[01:22:31] <pfred1> I'm big into shelving though i have a fair number of drawers here and there too
[01:22:46] <ds3> Jymmm: a new one or did you find a source for the old, really nicely built ones?
[01:22:54] <Jymmm> I have chrome rolling racks for shelving
[01:23:09] <Jymmm> ds3: HEAVY DUTY 5 drawer for free
[01:23:19] <pfred1> I have every available bit of wall shelved here i believe
[01:23:44] <Jymmm> pfred1: I have one shelf, and I use it for parts jars.
[01:23:47] <ds3> Jymmm: nice... :)~~~~~ I got one for the hauling and now all the new ones they sell are just crap :/
[01:24:02] <Jymmm> I want everything to me as mobile as possible.
[01:24:06] <Jymmm> s/me/be/
[01:24:28] <pfred1> heh I have one bench here i made over 16 feet long and its on casters
[01:24:35] <Jymmm> I'm getting rid of everything big or bilky
[01:24:42] <Jymmm> bulky
[01:24:54] <pfred1> let me find a pic of my rolling bench
[01:25:28] <Jymmm> I had those plastic drawers that you can roll around, empty now. As soon as I can get to one spot I'll sell em
[01:26:04] <Jymmm> ds3: interested? they're nice for what they are.
[01:27:43] <pfred1> its not immediately obvious but the bench with the yellow thing on it in this picture rolls: http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9483/pict0344.jpg
[01:28:26] <Jymmm> the paner?
[01:28:36] <pfred1> yeah wit hthe thickness planer on it
[01:28:36] <Jymmm> planer
[01:28:43] <ds3> Jymmm: the drawers? or more filing cabinets?
[01:28:51] <Jymmm> and wth you need two saws for?
[01:28:55] <pfred1> that whole bench is on 6" casters
[01:29:01] <Jymmm> ds3: plastic draweers on wheels
[01:29:13] <pfred1> Jymmm what my radial arm and table saws?
[01:29:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: yep
[01:29:23] <PCW> Damn, 2 weeks wasted searching for assy lang bugs and it was a 1 letter typo in the CPU
[01:29:25] <PCW> I excel at generating hard to find bugs I guess
[01:29:27] <Jymmm> and bandsaw
[01:29:32] <pfred1> table saws blow at cross cutting
[01:29:50] <Jymmm> pfred1: put in a nice blade then
[01:30:04] <pfred1> you can hurt yourself trying to nip the end off a four foot long piece!
[01:30:14] <pfred1> nah just the way they are its too much leverage
[01:30:28] <pfred1> trust me RASes are nice to have
[01:30:34] <ds3> Jymmm: got a catalog picture of which ones? I have seen 3 or 4 kinds at the usual suspects
[01:30:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: and get rid of that 1980's PC above the garage door!
[01:30:50] <pfred1> all I do on the tablesaw anymore is rip
[01:31:06] <pfred1> Jymmm oh thats a new PC
[01:31:17] <pfred1> Jymmm I've really got them fro mthe 80s
[01:31:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: trash it
[01:31:51] <pfred1> nah
[01:32:04] <pfred1> hey i just fired up an old PC the other day and loaded Doom on it
[01:32:19] <PCW> hang on a little longer, almost antiques
[01:32:23] <Jymmm> ds3: This, but one is 3 and the other is 4 drawer http://www.target.com/dp/B002SYGB3Q/ref=sc_qi_img_viewdetails?ie=UTF8&title=view%20full%20details
[01:32:34] <pfred1> I was going to use it to test my port buffer board on but never did get it to boot a floppy
[01:33:06] <ds3> Oh those... I'll pass...they won't survive in the shop
[01:33:11] <Jymmm> ds3: I need to find/locae the the top for one of them. I think I know where it's at, just can't get to that corner yet =)
[01:33:34] <pfred1> ds3 I have some of those i keep electronic parts in them
[01:34:01] <ds3> pfred1: I also use the wider version of those as a cloths drawer
[01:34:07] <Jymmm> ds3: No, they work nicely. It's just that I don't have the floor space for them.
[01:34:23] <pfred1> ds3 I have this sort of wire drawer thing in my closet
[01:34:27] <ds3> Jymmm: depends on how heavy of a thing that goes in there
[01:34:47] <Jymmm> ds3: It's not for storing pipe fitting in
[01:34:48] <ds3> Jymmm: I have the wheelless versions of that along with the containers
[01:34:51] <pfred1> ds3 i have one of those bins filled up with a number of stepper motors it holds up
[01:35:41] <ds3> I have had too many stellite things crack on me
[01:36:06] <pfred1> wow this pic is old I hadn't redone the table on the RAS yet in it
[01:37:38] <pfred1> Jymmm there's 6" I beams under that rolling bench though holding it all together well that and 5" lightweight hot rolled angle
[01:38:03] <Jymmm> ds3: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/1661601358.html
[01:38:41] <pfred1> Jymmm slap a piece of wood over those cabinets and instant desk!
[01:38:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: I use lab benches for desks
[01:40:01] <Jymmm> pfred1: they are jsut abuse proof
[01:40:58] <pfred1> I started working on a new top for one of my workbenches never got around to finishing it though
[01:41:08] <ds3> Jymmm: the color scheme and the shallow depth suggest they are the modern thin ones
[01:41:28] <pfred1> ds3 the handles look cheesy
[01:43:48] <pfred1> here's a pic from my old garage when I made my workbench: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/408/p9100001.jpg
[01:44:23] <pfred1> but i want ot make one of those european style tops with the fancy vises on it
[05:15:26] <WalterN_work> hey, quick question... for a haas lathe, the tailstock encoder is.. not really working, it will jog forwards but not back, how do I force jog it?
[05:16:39] <WalterN_work> I think there is a key combo, but I'm not sure what it is
[05:25:17] <mk0> how can i make a pause? in g-code ref it's M0 but it doen't suite: it stops running, P200 e.g. doesn't work at all
[05:49:40] <mk0> pause for 2 seconds for example
[05:54:52] <WalterN_work> mk0: on the hass controller its g04 P2 (for two second delay)
[05:56:15] <WalterN_work> mk0: if you have a list of G and M codes, search for dwell or delay
[06:07:16] <mk0> yep! ffuu i was looking for "pause" then in google ocassionally saw dwell is pause
[06:09:16] <mk0> thank you)
[06:39:44] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[08:05:30] <sealive> good morning from germany
[08:06:13] <sealive> the tool.tab is this in inch or what size is this i use mm for my NC-code
[08:28:15] <micges_work> sealive: tool.tbl is in unit what your machine use
[08:34:24] <sealive> thank You
[10:10:41] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:10:51] <awallin> gday
[10:39:14] <justin__> justin__ is now known as JustinXJS
[11:50:25] <Mortez-cs> Mortez-cs is now known as Mortez
[12:22:05] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:28:30] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servoamps.JPG
[13:29:45] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/Toolreader.JPG
[13:31:41] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/Shellmill.JPG
[13:32:18] <pcw_home> How does he tool reader work? mechanical switches?
[13:32:55] <JT-Work> way too clean in that cabinet :)
[13:33:15] <elmo40> pcw_home: looks like a series of slots.
[13:33:21] <elmo40> like a player piano ;)
[13:33:29] <elmo40> combination of slots makes tool#
[13:33:57] <elmo40> then again, I could be wrong :P
[13:34:33] <pcw_home> I was wondering how the pickup head read the slots/rings
[13:34:57] <elmo40> current?
[13:35:08] <elmo40> everything is metal, no?
[13:36:14] <pcw_home> Yes so maybe inductive, only skunkworks really knows
[13:36:23] <elmo40> does he? ;)
[13:37:23] <skunkworks> switches.
[13:37:29] <skunkworks> knive switches
[13:37:35] <skunkworks> knife
[13:39:21] <pcw_home> Interesting, wonder how reliable they are
[13:40:36] <elmo40> skunkworks eewww, diet mountain dew? :-/
[13:41:32] <WalterN> diet soda is disgusting...
[13:54:01] <skunkworks> ;) - I don't drink it - it is only for scale.
[13:55:33] <cradek> skunkworks: neat pictures
[13:55:52] <cradek> oh it uses mechanical switches? I wouldn't have guessed that.
[14:01:08] <pcw_home> Looks like maybe 7 switches and 8 fixed alignment blades
[14:05:59] <elmo40> skunkworks nice shellmill
[14:06:18] <elmo40> many inserts = large dollars to refill
[14:32:23] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[14:35:00] <elmo40> so.... 10.04 in the works?
[14:35:35] <mozmck> yep
[14:36:27] <WalterN> elmo40: shell mills are teh awesome for removing large amounts of material and fingers
[14:40:20] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[14:47:51] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[15:36:50] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[15:36:50] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-03-26.txt
[15:37:47] <skunkworks> pcw_home: it is 15 blades.
[15:38:20] <skunkworks> I was just thinking - I probably have to use one as a trigger - wait so many ms - then read them all.
[15:39:09] <pcw_home> 15 switches? so 32767 tool #s
[15:39:15] <skunkworks> yep :)
[15:40:12] <skunkworks> * skunkworks doesn't have 'that' much tooling.
[15:41:56] <elmo40> when I clicked on the linuxcnc page in June '09 and saw nothing was updated since Dec '08, I was worried. I was hoping it didn't die (like so many other great linux apps)
[15:42:21] <MattyMatt> no updates simply means it's finished :)
[15:42:32] <elmo40> but nothing is in the News section describing a 10.04 in the works.
[15:42:42] <pcw_home> Have you looked at how they are coded? the code may have parity or "tool there" bits
[15:42:49] <MattyMatt> News for March, it still works fine
[15:42:50] <elmo40> MattyMatt: nothing is finished. ever.
[15:42:53] <MattyMatt> :)
[15:43:49] <MattyMatt> the unix philosophy encourages stuff to be completed. you add features in a new program, instead of bloating the central app
[15:44:16] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I don't see anything like that.. (wondering the same thing) The prox sensor doesn't line up with the reading of the head either.. They my have done it all by timing.
[15:45:26] <MattyMatt> is the chain driven by a servo with encoder?
[15:45:52] <skunkworks> prox sensor fires - wait 1 second - read tool. (the chain is driven by hydraulics and gearbox)
[15:46:26] <skunkworks> no feedback other than it knows when each pocket passes a prox sensor.
[15:47:03] <MattyMatt> tool taper gives a bit of leeway I suppose
[15:47:52] <MattyMatt> I suspect that counts as taper abuse though
[15:48:35] <pcw_home> For mechanical switches you may want a latch per bit so if a switch is ever on in the sample interval it is
[15:48:37] <pcw_home> latched, then the latches are cleared when ready to sense a new tool
[15:49:27] <MattyMatt> an optical or hall effect sensor is simple to retrofit, if that's what you care about
[15:49:47] <MattyMatt> glue a magnet to the top of each pocket
[15:51:11] <MattyMatt> is one of the blades larger or smaller or offset from the rest?
[15:51:24] <MattyMatt> if so, that's your trigger
[15:52:46] <skunkworks> MattyMatt: they already mounted a hunk of metal on each pocket just for the prox sensor.
[15:53:23] <pcw_home> Contacts close when pushed in?
[15:53:29] <skunkworks> yes
[15:54:34] <MattyMatt> I'd imagine the word on the contacts is valid when the prox sensor is active, that'll be your narrow blade so no delay would be needed
[15:55:19] <pcw_home> Thats good, so even if the contacts are noisy. latching the closed state would make it quite reliable
[15:55:45] <MattyMatt> so use OR for debouncing?
[15:56:02] <MattyMatt> assuming closed = 1
[15:58:10] <skunkworks> I am pretty sure though that the prox sensor doesn't line up with the readhead.
[15:58:31] <skunkworks> so I am not really sure how the original control did it
[15:58:47] <MattyMatt> get a 16 trace osciliscope and see
[15:59:37] <cradek> then maybe think of the prox as "test this value now, and clear the latches to wait for the next one"
[15:59:39] <MattyMatt> was it here or #dsdev that people make $100 32 channel logic analysers from fbga boards?
[15:59:59] <pcw_home> the prox sensor may happen between tools so "save and clear sense latches"
[16:00:00] <cradek> I think pcw's plan is good: each bit should latch on any rising edge
[16:00:07] <cradek> yes exactly
[16:02:33] <MattyMatt> does the chain only move one way?
[16:02:50] <cradek> one -|^|---(S)- for each bit, and later |^| on the prox should latch the value, and |v| on the prox should (R) all the bits
[16:03:32] <cradek> MattyMatt: originally yes - it didn't know where the tools were, it just looked for the right one and, if found, loaded it
[16:03:48] <cradek> so it only went the direction where the reader was "before" the spindle
[16:05:20] <pcw_home> really neat steel barcodes, I wonder if that was patented
[16:10:21] <MattyMatt> I hope not, that's how I hope to do the encoder on my lathe
[16:10:51] <MattyMatt> laser a gray code on the bed
[16:11:15] <MattyMatt> maybe so small that a laser is needed to read it :)
[16:11:38] <skunkworks> cool - that seems easy.
[16:11:51] <MattyMatt> I hope so
[16:12:00] <pcw_home> Since this is a 60s? machine the patent would have expired
[16:12:07] <MattyMatt> yep :)
[16:12:43] <MattyMatt> I was shocked reading 1910 pop mech how little has changed. we've got computers, that's it
[16:13:18] <skunkworks> designed in the 60's delivered in 69'
[16:13:44] <elmo40> the woman wants me to marry her... any thoughts?
[16:14:09] <MattyMatt> do you have enough land to support a family?
[16:14:17] <pcw_home> run?
[16:14:38] <MattyMatt> wives are harmless if you have a few acres
[16:15:46] <elmo40> does a townhouse constitute as few acres? :/
[16:16:03] <elmo40> pcw_home: I should...
[16:16:06] <cradek> elmo40: I truly doubt this is the best place to ask for marriage advice
[16:16:07] <MattyMatt> not really, unless it has a soundproof basement
[16:16:14] <MattyMatt> and 3 phase :)
[16:16:22] <elmo40> true :P
[16:17:47] <pcw_home> MattyMatt: have you seen the Resolute encoders? I think they use a metal scale
[16:17:54] <elmo40> here are some factors. 1) I can tinker in the garage till the wee hours in the morning (but she won't cook me dinner) 2) I have a few Linux boxes here, including her laptop 3) sex is great 4) she already has a brat, don't need to make any more 5) educated, though currently unemployed.
[16:19:07] <pcw_home> I think what cradek said still applies...
[16:21:14] <MattyMatt> get the brat to run your forge bellows either way
[16:22:14] <MattyMatt> those linear encoders from copiers/laser printers look good, if a bit flimsy
[16:26:33] <MattyMatt> laser diodes aren't coherent enough to measure phase change unfortunately, or else you could have a travelling mirror and count interference waves
[16:29:56] <MattyMatt> or am I wrong? can you get quadrature laser encoders like that?
[16:30:29] <pcw_home> Ive got some kind of linear encoder here (renishaw?) that just has what looks like a gold mylar tape stuck to the track
[16:30:31] <pcw_home> very high res
[16:31:03] <pcw_home> tape has color fringes like a grating
[16:31:32] <MattyMatt> probably like an old style optical mouse, they cam with a special mat
[16:32:03] <MattyMatt> does it give absolute position on power on?
[16:32:19] <MattyMatt> that's what I'd like, a fully self-aware machine
[16:33:00] <MattyMatt> I want to fit a camera so it can ispect its own tool :)
[16:33:04] <pcw_home> The one I have with the tape is relative, the Resolute encoder is absolute
[16:38:20] <MattyMatt> I was thinking of a mechanical rev counter for the leadscrews, but that's asking for trouble
[16:39:28] <MattyMatt> how does a digital vernier caliper work?
[16:39:33] <pcw_home> Just trying to avoid homing?
[16:39:46] <MattyMatt> yeah
[16:39:55] <pcw_home> They are capacitive resolvers
[16:40:05] <TD-Linux> I played with an absolute magnetic encoder
[16:40:13] <TD-Linux> poor resolution, only 256 counts / turn :(
[16:41:00] <pcw_home> there a 12 bit one available
[16:41:51] <pcw_home> even 8 bits might be good for a tool turret sensor
[16:48:01] <MattyMatt> I'd use a stepper, or hydraulic steps. alignment would be done by the locking bolt anyway
[16:49:19] <MattyMatt> iow, like that K&T
[16:49:36] <MattyMatt> a bit like
[16:50:08] <pcw_home> So the turret would have to home at startup
[16:50:50] <MattyMatt> a turret wouldn't need many bits for a simple absolute encoder
[16:51:30] <MattyMatt> less than 16, that's for sure :)
[16:51:40] <pcw_home> I was just thinking of things like the Hardinge HNC sensor, one of those absolute magnetic encoders could replace it
[16:52:11] <MattyMatt> I know nothing about real kit, tbh
[16:52:50] <MattyMatt> sherline lathes looked hi tech to me a year ago
[16:53:18] <i_tarzan_> hydraulic steps?
[16:53:23] <pcw_home> Sure seems like if you have the space, retrofitting a real machine is the way to go
[16:54:01] <MattyMatt> i_tarzan, pistons, pneumatic probably better, that rotate the turret one tool step
[16:54:40] <MattyMatt> and then a bolt with a roller end, to align and lock
[16:55:46] <MattyMatt> that was done with a solenoid to unlock for rotation, and a stepper to do the rotating, on momma's typesetting machine
[17:01:55] <MattyMatt> 240V solenoid iirc, to overcome the locking spring
[17:03:04] <MattyMatt> the linkage was always breaking, but a carefully bent paperclip lasted 6 months at a time :)
[17:03:26] <MattyMatt> bodger is me
[17:04:35] <JT-Work> MattyMatt: this is my turret encoder on the Hardinge minus the arm and magnet http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/TurretEncoder01.jpg
[17:06:02] <MattyMatt> haha yeah, never thought of 8 sensors
[17:07:02] <JT-Work> those are switches and the chip puts out binary so only 4 inputs are needed
[17:07:48] <MattyMatt> I wonder how much torque you can get from a 3.5" floppy motor
[17:08:02] <MattyMatt> the hub motor, the bldc one
[17:08:05] <cradek> enough to spin a floppy
[17:08:18] <MattyMatt> as long as the floppy isn't damp
[17:08:30] <pcw_home> depends on how much you gear it down :-)
[17:09:40] <pcw_home> JT we sent your replacement 5I20 out yesterday
[17:09:52] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[17:10:25] <cradek> MattyMatt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q-BH-tvxEg
[17:10:37] <JT-Work> thanks Peter
[17:11:05] <JT-Work> pcw_home: did you figure out what was wrong with the other one?
[17:12:53] <pcw_home> Your card was well and truly dead, no idea why, it was not the EEPROM, the FPGA would not config
[17:14:21] <JT-Work> wow
[17:16:52] <MattyMatt> cradek, he didn't let it run :) the concrete might have given up first in the end
[17:17:44] <sealive> hi from germany is there anyone how uses heekscad/cnc
[17:17:46] <MattyMatt> unlikely the way those gears were on stalks
[17:19:43] <alex_joni> sealive: best to join #cam
[17:19:48] <alex_joni> most heeks-guys are in there
[17:19:59] <alex_joni> including Dan Heeks once in a while
[17:20:33] <MattyMatt> that's for me too. emc works great, now I need to generate some gcode :)
[17:20:35] <pcw_home> Dan Heeks and the hot Leeks?
[17:21:10] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt /join #cam
[17:22:13] <sealive> i'am already in cam
[17:22:47] <sealive> tho code generation is exelent
[17:23:10] <sealive> tryd a lot of parts from ProE/NC
[17:23:29] <sealive> import via Iges Wirerframe
[17:24:24] <sealive> perfekt just with the LMB over the curves klick on sketch and then on pocket and G0 thats ist
[17:24:40] <sealive> as fast as it shoud be
[17:24:46] <alex_joni> glad to hear it's working for you
[17:24:55] <sealive> but to generate parts with the system is tricky
[17:25:06] <alex_joni> pcw_home: ;)
[17:25:49] <sealive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/260310135024_heeks_rad.JPG
[17:28:19] <sealive> MattyMatt: there are no people there on cam as for houres
[17:28:55] <archivist> sealive, you should lurk in a channel
[17:29:20] <archivist> you were not in during a conversation today
[17:32:06] <sealive> i wars in and managed as Matt the first steps
[17:32:23] <alex_joni> sealive: IRC is like that.. you ask a question, wait a couple hours for someone to come online
[17:32:25] <sealive> put the docu is veryyyyy small
[17:32:55] <sealive> alex_joni: :D
[17:33:47] <pcw_home> Well I've learned I have a talent to create bugs so subtle that they take weeks to find
[17:34:03] <alex_joni> pcw_home: it takes talent to do that ;)
[17:34:14] <MattyMatt> what to learn that?
[17:34:43] <MattyMatt> i.e. it takes talent to learn you've got a talent?
[17:34:58] <pcw_home> A simple typo in just the right place
[17:39:02] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO
[17:39:20] <alex_joni> why the hell does gimp has toilet paper as a Template for a new drawing...
[17:41:01] <alex_joni> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladewood/4347882489/
[17:43:16] <sealive> for creating shit stuff
[17:43:45] <alex_joni> hmm.. I never knew there are different standard sizes based on country
[17:44:21] <pcw_home> Thats pretty funny, guess the developer had a slow day
[17:44:45] <sealive> here in the PX in RAMSTEIN USAFB there are all the paper sheets available US-EU-China norm
[17:45:31] <archivist> people do print on bog paper
[17:46:38] <sealive> your own paper rolls 25 rolls for 5 dollars you ideea on shit
[17:47:38] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://jeremyinc.com/
[17:48:36] <sealive> sudoku is the best !
[18:20:01] <MattyMatt> SWPadnos: an undo buffer stores diffs between machine states
[18:21:00] <MattyMatt> if the whole machine state is stored before executing each line of gcode, you don't need to reverse the actual gcode
[18:22:00] <SWPadnos> think about that for a few minutes
[18:23:22] <SWPadnos> the amount of state that would have to be saved is considerable (all variables, all interpreter modes, machine state, etc)
[18:23:29] <MattyMatt> yep
[18:23:37] <MattyMatt> no worse than a GL debugger
[18:23:49] <SWPadnos> you also have to know how to reverse something
[18:24:01] <SWPadnos> G2 gets reversed with G3, not another G2
[18:24:30] <SWPadnos> a GL debugger doesn't need to operate a machine in realtime
[18:24:58] <SWPadnos> and isn't limited by kernel memory allocation issues (limited pool that can't be swapped out)
[18:25:30] <MattyMatt> I was thinking at the higher level. I expect most situations where you'd want to reverse would be while debugging a simulation
[18:25:41] <SWPadnos> I would expect the opposite
[18:26:09] <SWPadnos> that people would want to step through a program (or reverse it) on an actual machine, while watching motion
[18:26:26] <MattyMatt> yeah I suppose
[18:26:42] <SWPadnos> this also gets to the reversal issue for EDM, and also following complex paths in reverse to extract e.g. a broken dovetail cutter
[18:30:32] <sealive> MattyMatt: someone is in cam
[18:30:52] <Jymmm> oompa loompas!
[18:32:17] <sealive> daniel one of the masters!
[18:33:33] <cradek> if it can put the material back on, I'm all for someone writing it
[18:34:04] <Jymmm> lol
[18:34:52] <Jymmm> cradek: Come on... you know it's "Measure once, cut twice!"
[18:35:08] <skunkworks> oh - whatever - you're just making it more complicated. You just reverse it!
[18:35:16] <skunkworks> :0
[18:36:48] <skunkworks> cradek, pcw_home, Cool Ideas. Seem like it should be easy to impliment.
[18:36:57] <Jymmm> skunkworks: ¿ʇı ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ noʎ ʇɥbnoɥʇ ı
[18:37:00] <skunkworks> (latching)
[18:37:44] <skunkworks> for some reason - the 'e'(s) in reverse showed up as blocks.
[18:38:02] <cradek> skunkworks: are you going to do it the dumb (original) way? seems like you could also have a program that reads all the tools and fills out the tool table.
[18:38:02] <Jymmm> skunkworks: your client sucks =)
[18:38:35] <Jymmm> skunkworks: (it's basically unicode)
[18:39:53] <skunkworks> cradek: I think I am going to start out simple for now. (have it read the tool and place it in the tool change location)
[18:40:51] <cradek> if it can prep ahead of time (and it can) that'll be fine as long as it doesn't take a super long time to travel all the way around
[18:42:00] <skunkworks> right. You would usually send the tool prep right after the last tool change - so it would be ready for the next.
[18:42:47] <cradek> emc actually sends the prep at read-ahead time, so you don't even have to do anything that special
[18:43:20] <cradek> (I'm not sure it's a feature, but it doesn't hurt anything to do it that way)
[18:43:22] <skunkworks> really? wow
[18:43:49] <cradek> yeah it won't read past a tool change, but it will send the prepare as soon as it sees it
[18:44:00] <skunkworks> so if there is a Twhatever way down in the program - it does it right after the last tool change?
[18:44:21] <cradek> yes unless there's something else that stops readahead, like a spindle or coolant on/off
[18:44:35] <cradek> but yeah if it's just a bunch of motion it'll do it right away
[18:44:53] <skunkworks> ok - interestin. It is good to know - I would be e-stoping wondering why the toolchager was taking off. ;)
[18:45:05] <skunkworks> interesting
[18:45:12] <cradek> yeah it confused me at first until I figured out the pattern -- and it's never loaded a wrong tool
[18:46:28] <terrylm> Hi all
[18:47:30] <skunkworks> hello
[18:47:37] <terrylm> Strange problem, after homing the axis takes off until the follow error is exceeded.
[18:48:01] <terrylm> It only does this if HOME_USE_INDEX = YES
[18:48:15] <terrylm> Any ideas?
[18:48:40] <cradek> do you mean until it hits the limit switch?
[18:49:00] <cradek> if so, it's just because it's looking for an index pulse and (apparently) never finding it
[18:49:05] <terrylm> No limit switches on the machine.
[18:49:36] <cradek> ok then can you say specifically what do you mean "the follow error is exceeded"
[18:49:48] <terrylm> It does seem to find the index pulse, and it puts the homed icon in the display.
[18:50:15] <terrylm> axis.0.f-error
[18:50:50] <terrylm> exceeds the allowed follow error in the INI file.
[18:51:19] <cradek> you get the error popup saying this?
[18:51:35] <terrylm> I'm a bit confused about FERROR vs. MIN_FERROR, that might be a problem?
[18:51:52] <terrylm> yes
[18:52:28] <cradek> so you poke home, it finds the switch, then finds the index, then immediately gives a following error, but still finishes homing and displays the homed icon?
[18:53:07] <terrylm> Also I put in the side panel displays for commanded pos., feedback pos., and axis.0.f-error.
[18:54:18] <terrylm> And I can see that for an instant the f-error is zeroed, then starts running up as the axis moves.
[18:55:24] <cradek> what kind of a machine is it?
[18:55:37] <terrylm> To make matter stranger, this morning the upon starting it all up, the problem was gone! ... while homing the X axis only.
[18:55:53] <JT-Work> terrylm: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_config.html#sub:[AXIS]-section
[18:56:33] <terrylm> It is a South Bend Magnaturn 612, largely gutted of the lightning struck electronics and redone by me.
[18:57:02] <cradek> do you hear a thump when it finds the index?
[18:57:36] <terrylm> no
[18:57:45] <terrylm> what would that be?
[18:58:37] <cradek> I think you might be having the problem that's fixed in 2.4 but not 2.3. It's cause is complicated but the result is that the first servo period after index reset has a large unwanted velocity output. After that period is over, everything goes back to normal.
[18:59:02] <cradek> if you are running git 2.4 branch or master, you can fix it by hooking up pid.N.index-enable to your existing index-enable connection
[18:59:03] <terrylm> Running 2.3.5
[18:59:21] <cradek> ok
[18:59:38] <terrylm> Recently updated via the update manager.
[18:59:50] <cradek> maybe the easiest thing is to wait for 2.4.0 then. If I am right, homing an axis the second time will always work and not ferror. Is this what you are seeing?
[19:00:28] <terrylm> The problem is persistant.
[19:00:35] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Since your done bldg garage, time to build the inlaw house... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z7WI2v1Mh8&NR=1
[19:01:15] <cradek> more precisely, I mean the first time you home X in an EMC run, you might get the ferror. The second and subsequent times you home X in that same emc run, it homes fine.
[19:01:25] <cradek> same for Z of course
[19:02:50] <cradek> if you would capture a plot of axis.0.f-error and axis.0.home-state when this happens, it would help confirm my guess at the problem
[19:03:15] <cradek> but if you're seeing the behavior I described with first vs subsequent times, I'm 99% sure
[19:11:26] <terrylm> sorry, phone interruption.
[19:11:34] <terrylm> Anyway...
[19:12:40] <terrylm> once it happens, if I click the power button icon to re-enable things, the axis starts moving again until it errors again.
[19:14:06] <terrylm> There seems no escape from this pattern.
[19:14:22] <cradek> huh, that part is extremely weird
[19:14:26] <terrylm> EMC must be exited to get out of the mess.
[19:14:37] <SWPadnos> terrylm, what kind of motors and encoders do you have?
[19:15:24] <cradek> does the axis.N.amp-enable correctly enable/disable the amps? the encoders don't get powered down or something according to that signal do they?
[19:15:30] <terrylm> 5 phase steppers (orig. equipment)
[19:15:47] <cradek> steppers??
[19:15:52] <cradek> ok tell us all about your setup :-)
[19:16:05] <terrylm> 4000 count quadrature encoders with index, also original.
[19:16:06] <SWPadnos> ok, I think you have to do more work to use stepgen with index homing
[19:17:00] <SWPadnos> stepgen feedback doesn't change when the index pulse comes in, so there's a guaranteed mismatch between the position stepgen thinks it's in and the position emc thinks it's in (since the motion controller is getting its feedback from the encoders)
[19:17:38] <terrylm> The drive amps are sort-of-original, but the op-amps where burnt and I replaced them with different ones.
[19:18:28] <terrylm> oh, ok
[19:18:49] <terrylm> so it is trying to catch it's own tail?
[19:18:58] <SWPadnos> I don't know if there's a solution to this, except to modify stepgen so its internal position counter can be reset on index
[19:19:00] <terrylm> to zero that difference?
[19:19:01] <SWPadnos> yeah, I think so
[19:19:03] <alex_joni> it's just confused
[19:19:24] <skunkworks> still - what is your setup? your using stepgen and printer port? reading the encoders back in?
[19:19:49] <aa-danimal-shop> afternoon fellas
[19:20:35] <SWPadnos> I don't think the hardware makes much difference here - I don't believe any stepgens have the ability to reset their position counters from an external input
[19:21:04] <skunkworks> ah
[19:21:18] <SWPadnos> it may be possible to do some sort of latch with a mux2, and add/subtract that amount to/from the stepgen command position
[19:21:20] <cradek> I think your only hope is to use stepgen in velocity mode, with pid
[19:22:05] <SWPadnos> ok, back to accounting (again)
[19:23:09] <cradek> or don't use index homing, or use hal to feed index+switch into axis.N.home-sw-in at the right stage of homing (which you configure for the double home switch search, with the second search being very slow to catch the index level)
[19:23:27] <cradek> (hack hack hack)
[19:24:14] <PCW> The latest stepgen has index and probe inputs but there no driver support
[19:24:30] <PCW> (there's)
[19:24:39] <alex_joni> PCW: the hostmot2 stepgen?
[19:24:45] <PCW> Yep
[19:24:50] <terrylm> nuder phone call...
[19:24:53] <cradek> no emc support either
[19:25:43] <terrylm> yes, stepgen to parport with ecoders.
[19:26:09] <PCW> I just copied the encoder logic, so that index or probe inputs capture the current (16 bit) step count and set a flag
[19:27:13] <skunkworks> This is a good read http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,286/catid,10/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/
[19:27:43] <cradek> PCW: interesting - maybe emc doesn't need to do anything special then
[19:28:27] <terrylm> I have a 5i23 card on order, so the parports are temporary.
[19:28:40] <cradek> PCW: maybe we could find an encoder for one of seb's steppers at cnc workshop, and try to get it working. I think more than a few people want this.
[19:29:03] <PCW> I tried to make it similar
[19:29:04] <PCW> (didn't realize terrylm was using pport, that's brave with 4000 count encoders)
[19:30:28] <terrylm> ya, the spindle encoder is useless :)
[19:30:54] <terrylm> The Mesa board will fix that though.
[19:30:55] <PCW> I can cobble together a config to try
[19:30:56] <PCW> So glad I found this bug thats been driving me crazy so I can work on more interesting things
[19:31:34] <cradek> what's that?
[19:33:01] <PCW> I made a typo in the CPU used by HostMot2 for the Resolver input and the twiddler module
[19:33:03] <PCW> and spent 2 weeks trying to find an assy language bug that wasn't there
[19:33:27] <cradek> arg
[19:33:39] <terrylm> A side issue, that may play into this, is that my home-brew 5-phase driver board that generates the signals for the drive amps, seems to some times requier up to .109 inch of drive signal befor the motor will move for the first time after power up.
[19:34:17] <cradek> that sounds ... wrong?
[19:34:33] <terrylm> This incurres a fixed following error that never changes once it starts.
[19:34:41] <alex_joni> .1" sounds like much even for me
[19:35:19] <terrylm> ya
[19:35:40] <terrylm> I'm going to work on the firmware for it and fix that.
[19:36:43] <terrylm> OH, it's 3:30! I got to go!
[19:38:05] <terrylm> aa-danimal-shop: Was it you that was interested in my tool turret ladder? If so, I made it into an example in the classicladder section of the emc wiki.
[19:38:57] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[19:40:25] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, it was me.... thanks! i'll check it out
[19:43:14] <terrylm> Your welcome. Bye all, and thanks for all the help.
[19:51:07] <aa-danimal-shop> i just scored some titanium for relatively cheap on ebay
[19:51:19] <aa-danimal-shop> along with some hardinge tool holders for the lathe
[19:51:33] <aa-danimal-shop> sometimes ebay is good
[19:51:41] <aa-danimal-shop> not often, but sometimes
[19:52:37] <aa-danimal-shop> now i just need a cheap source for 17-4ph
[19:52:42] <aa-danimal-shop> in sheet
[19:53:15] <skunkworks> aa-danimal-shop: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/Shellmill.JPG
[19:53:28] <skunkworks> tried to get dad to mount the 12" shell mill ;)
[19:53:41] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Since your done bldg garage, time to build the inlaw house... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z7WI2v1Mh8&NR=1
[19:54:11] <aa-danimal-shop> where'd you get that lil cutter lol
[19:54:22] <skunkworks> Jymmm: saw that. I have seen some local buildings done that way.
[19:54:34] <aa-danimal-shop> 12"? that'd be great for decking engine blocks and heads
[19:54:43] <aa-danimal-shop> 1 pass, no steps
[19:55:20] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I thought it was creative. Actually doesn't really look that bad either for what it is.
[19:55:28] <skunkworks> yep
[20:06:15] <skunkworks> it is almost as good as the inlaws house.. It has been remodled so many times by someone who had no clue about loadbearing walls. I don't think any of the floors in the house are level.
[20:25:04] <Jymmm> lol
[21:00:25] <JT-Work> I finally got them dam two parts done! 3 days for each one...
[21:00:35] <JT-Work> * JT-Work is heading home to talk to the dog
[21:19:24] <MrSunshine_> PUL/DIR is the same as STEP/DIR ?
[21:19:27] <MrSunshine_> on drives?
[21:19:44] <alex_joni> sounds french
[21:19:50] <alex_joni> pulse/direction
[21:20:06] <alex_joni> which is the same as step/dir
[21:20:52] <MrSunshine_> ok :)
[21:24:33] <MrSunshine_> hmm, when setting current i found a drive but it has jumpers, either 3.5A or 4.2A .. my steppers want 4A, what do i do then ? :)
[21:30:07] <frallzor> 3.5
[21:33:48] <MrSunshine_> but that wouldnt give me as much as 4A current would it? :/
[21:33:51] <MrSunshine_> just like it is now
[21:33:56] <MrSunshine_> 1.8A insted of 2A with my current driver
[21:34:12] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ hey whats new?
[21:34:37] <MrSunshine_> pfred1, found myself drivers in the uk and gonna order but current specifications is a bit fuzzy :P
[21:34:47] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ I'm in the process of building a new motor driver myself
[21:35:29] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ check it ouy it's psychedelic! http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3529/saa1027brd.png
[21:35:31] <MrSunshine_> its Peak current i should look at in the datasheets when setting current isnt it? :)
[21:35:52] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ for me it is what runs best
[21:37:07] <pfred1> all I care about is what the motor turns fastest at with the best torque characteristics I can get out of it
[21:40:53] <MrSunshine_> need to build myself a bob i think ...
[21:41:26] <pfred1> I did that and statically tested it haven't quite hooked it to a PC yet to dynamically test out yet though
[21:41:50] <JT-Hardinge> what kind of tool goes in the center holder with the blue tool bit in it? http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/Turret/Turret01.jpg
[21:42:11] <pfred1> not so sure how I can enable the parallel port in EMC2 for regular operation I've done some research on it just haven't actually done the deed yet here though
[21:42:20] <JT-Hardinge> there is no way to adjust the height of the cutting edge...
[21:42:43] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge its cutting edge so it'll adjust the work height :)
[21:42:56] <JT-Hardinge> lol
[21:43:51] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, use 3/8" shank tooling
[21:44:04] <pfred1> man I think this new board I drew up is so sexy I'm using it here for desktop wallpaper
[21:44:14] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: then it will be way low
[21:44:19] <aa-danimal-shop> all 3/8" tooling will be on center with the work piece
[21:44:54] <aa-danimal-shop> it shouldnt be
[21:45:10] <aa-danimal-shop> unless yours uses 1/2" tooling
[21:45:20] <JT-Hardinge> yea, mine is 1/2"
[21:45:34] <aa-danimal-shop> ah
[21:45:41] <aa-danimal-shop> the HNC is 3/8"
[21:45:52] <aa-danimal-shop> use 1/2" cutters then lol
[21:46:11] <JT-Hardinge> it says it is an extension holder what ever that is
[21:46:32] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, for facing and whatnot
[21:46:37] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge well if thats anything like an extension ladder I want nothing to do with it!
[21:46:37] <aa-danimal-shop> i use similar ones
[21:46:55] <aa-danimal-shop> or for face grooving
[21:47:19] <aa-danimal-shop> anything where you need the tool to be parellel to the z
[21:47:19] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop thats what my old roofing foreman told me once ...
[22:03:52] <gene> Hey guys, where in the book is the syntax for an m101 exampled?
[22:04:51] <MrSunshine_> sight, when contacting companies if i forgot to finalize an order to ask them to finalize it or resolve the problem do i use my transaction ID from paypal then for them to identify that they got the money ?
[22:05:47] <gene> using a line: M101 P#40 Q#41 where there are values assigned to #40 & #41, seems to get zero output
[22:07:58] <JT-Hardinge> gene: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:M100-to-M199:
[22:13:51] <gene> Am I to assume that m101 is deprecated and I should use (print, variablename=#variablenumber)?
[22:15:23] <pfred1> there's nothing worser than feeling deprecated
[22:15:38] <JT-Hardinge> gene what are you trying to do
[22:15:52] <gene> Hey, at 75 I resemble that remark ;-)
[22:16:33] <gene> Trying to check all the numbers calculated for drilling me a 22-250 headspace gauge
[22:17:36] <frallzor> hmm I im going to connect my drivers to some connectors for my mill, could I use my shielded wire stripped down the the shield?
[22:17:41] <frallzor> so they are a bit smaller
[22:17:41] <pfred1> * pfred1 is trying to stuff 10 pounds of you know what into a 5 pound bag
[22:18:25] <gene> And some of them are damned ssmall because I'll be exploring the error band in the math for g2 to cut a tapered hole 1.51" deep on a spiral cut
[22:19:23] <pfred1> frallzor run that by me one more time please
[22:19:50] <frallzor> wire with shield and stuff, and an outer pvc layer
[22:20:04] <pfred1> frallzor you have multi-conductor shielded cable and you want to rip it apart and use the individual wires?
[22:20:07] <frallzor> strip down so its a bit smaller diameter wise for use to connect drivers to connectors
[22:20:21] <frallzor> no one shield for all wires
[22:20:51] <pfred1> frallzor so you don't care if these wires are shielded form one and another then?
[22:20:53] <frallzor> the outer pvc layer is bulky for internal use to hook drivers to connectors so I want to remove it
[22:21:04] <gene> And.... only connected at one end, the computer/driver end.
[22:21:10] <pfred1> frallzor yeah wire is wire within limits
[22:21:17] <JT-Hardinge> gene: M100-199 execute a program are you trying to print out a variable from your g-code file?
[22:21:32] <gene> yes Jt-Hradinge
[22:21:37] <pfred1> frallzor but it sounds to me like you're ripping apart more expensive wire to get at cheaper lengths
[22:21:39] <JT-Hardinge> I'm only 56 but if it has to do with guns I'm with you
[22:21:51] <JT-Hardinge> my favorite is my M1
[22:21:57] <JT-Hardinge> on sec
[22:22:05] <frallzor> its more expensive getting some cheaper wire for this =)
[22:22:10] <frallzor> than using what Ive got
[22:22:28] <Jymmm> frallzor: Then get some proper sized connectors
[22:22:30] <pfred1> frallzor so this is inside the controller box then?
[22:22:38] <frallzor> yup
[22:22:53] <Valen> we used speaker wire on our mill
[22:22:58] <gene> Yeah, I just replaced a shotout shilen barrel with the whole Howa 1500 action & super heavy SS barrel, and the headspace won'y let my old ammo chamber
[22:23:09] <frallzor> Jymmm the wire would still be a bit too bulky to drag in the box =)
[22:23:16] <pfred1> frallzor what you're tyying to do is valid then because the signals are all in there unshielded from one and another anyways
[22:24:09] <pfred1> frallzor its how it is generally done upon entrance to an enclosure is to break aprat wires so you can connect them to what you need to connect them to
[22:24:53] <frallzor> the outer pvc layer is only to protect the rest from dirt and chemicals etc etc
[22:25:02] <frallzor> inside = clean
[22:25:12] <pfred1> frallzor yup just to tie it all neatly into a package
[22:25:30] <pfred1> frallzor once you're in an enclosure you really don't need it anymore
[22:25:31] <MrSunshine_> any info somewhere on prefered connections in the parport to breakout board for emc? :)
[22:25:32] <gene> I guess I'll go switch the code to use the (print,..) function instead. Back is killing me, so I'll ssh in for that part
[22:25:39] <MrSunshine_> like what ones should be step/dir and what ones are input etc?
[22:25:40] <Valen> I was thinking of getting shielded motor wire, but it was really expensive
[22:25:51] <JT-Hardinge> gene: this might be what your looking for http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:Messages
[22:26:24] <JT-Hardinge> and you might have to use print I don't know
[22:26:28] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ I think getting started has the default pinouts
[22:26:42] <MrSunshine_> hmm ok :)
[22:26:47] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge goes back to screwing on cover plates :)
[22:26:52] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ but with hal you can change any of this
[22:27:03] <MrSunshine_> yeah but better go with default =)
[22:27:19] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ well cept whats input and output generally but that is just general port direction
[22:27:35] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ yeah its is what i am shooting for myself
[22:27:49] <pfred1> MrSunshine_ I figure easier for them to document it than me to
[22:28:20] <pfred1> 6 of ones a half a dozen of the other to me
[22:28:36] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/cyTbdrKjD/ tadaaa
[22:29:42] <pfred1> frallzor once I optically isolated my motor drivers noise wasn't really an issue anymore
[22:30:00] <pfred1> that pretty much stopped the noise at its source
[22:30:03] <frallzor> im using geckos, they should be opto-isolated?
[22:30:09] <pfred1> I think they are
[22:30:15] <frallzor> my bob is too
[22:30:26] <frallzor> but Im doing this as properly as possible =)
[22:30:39] <pfred1> yeah i think it is a bit fool hardy to have optos at both ends but I guess it can't hurt but optos are slow
[22:30:42] <gene> Yes, I have that printout. But while I've converted a couple statements to that format, I am not seeing any output
[22:31:13] <gene> I may be back later, dinner time
[22:31:17] <gene> Thanks
[22:31:22] <pfred1> we may be here :)
[22:32:22] <pfred1> typical optos are like 1,000 times slower than other standard logic
[22:32:35] <gene> I found the output, twas in a shell behind axis. Duh, dumb old fart anyway. ;-) Thanks again
[22:34:07] <pfred1> something to do with the miller capacitive effect on the base junction of the phototransistor I believe
[22:35:28] <pfred1> though I bet a few of them chained together could make a bad assed digital bucket brigade delay unit!
[22:36:10] <pfred1> when I get back to building guitar effects I'll have to try it out
[22:41:15] <pfred1> alright i just moved the monitor of my CNC machine to where I don't get neck strain to see it now for the moment of truth, will that machine turn on?
[22:41:54] <pfred1> it looks good!
[23:51:23] <VernonM> congrats pfredl :)
[23:51:56] <pfred1> VernonM yeah after I put a parallel port card in that machine it gave me a few fits then
[23:52:20] <pfred1> I think it knows whats coming!
[23:52:39] <pfred1> its like whats this funky OS I'm running? Now this strange antique hardware?