#emc | Logs for 2010-03-22

[00:03:20] <jmkasunich> LawrenceG: I didn't keep the spring return - I removed the pinion of the "rack and pinion" quill drive, and everything asociated with it. Left a gaping hole that I covered with a metal plate
[00:03:49] <jmkasunich> I also made my own "banjo" to connect screw to quill, the original one was too flexible
[00:05:16] <jmkasunich> look at the PDF on my site. The original quill had an enlarged section about a half-inch long at the bottom
[00:05:34] <jmkasunich> I cut tapers on both ends of that, and made mating tapers in my adapter
[00:05:50] <jmkasunich> so when the screws are tightened, it locks down tight on the quill and can't possibly tilt
[00:06:04] <jmkasunich> the old banjo just clamped on the OD, and could tilt under pressure
[00:14:37] <JT-Hardinge> OK, 5k rpm 40ipm slinging 6061 chips everywhere
[00:16:19] <Optic> wow
[00:16:32] <Optic> what's 6061?
[00:16:42] <JT-Hardinge> aluminum
[00:16:45] <Optic> ahhh
[00:16:46] <clytle374> butter
[00:16:56] <Optic> that must look quite cool :)
[00:17:21] <Optic> our laser cuts 1/4" acrylic at 4ipm :)
[00:18:38] <JT-Hardinge> very cool after 4 months of conversion and sorting out
[00:19:55] <Optic> what mill is that?
[00:20:12] <Optic> something you made? :)
[00:22:41] <JT-Hardinge> a Hardinge CHNC I lathe
[00:43:32] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:47:39] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: can you spot your modules? ;) http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecin.JPG
[00:48:15] <jmkasunich> I think so
[00:48:23] <jmkasunich> I don't see the white ones tho
[00:48:35] <skunkworks> no - not yet..
[00:48:59] <jmkasunich> that upper board takes the fat ones doesn't it?
[00:49:03] <skunkworks> yes
[00:49:08] <skunkworks> the older style.
[00:49:18] <skunkworks> we have a ton of those modules also.
[00:49:50] <skunkworks> we are probably going to use the g4 style for outputs and the original style as inputs.
[00:51:02] <skunkworks> the edge connector works great with the old style floppy connector. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/16io.JPG
[00:51:16] <jmkasunich> slick
[00:56:44] <JT-Hardinge> is the drive line the root of the thread in a g76?
[00:58:51] <JT-Hardinge> I think I understand now the drive line is the rapid X location and the thread peaks are below that...
[01:00:02] <Optic> oops
[01:39:42] <cradek> yeah drive line is totally outside the thread
[01:41:16] <cradek> jmkasunich: I paid you for those modules didn't I?
[01:41:22] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:41:51] <jmkasunich> you got them didn't you?
[01:42:02] <cradek> yes thanks
[01:43:32] <cradek> well I got a box - I haven't even opened it yet
[01:43:38] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:46:42] <cradek> I was working on a truck with about 150k miles today. the teeth on the distributor's gear are almost completely worn through. about 2/3 of each tooth is gone. does anyone know if this is normal or does it mean there's an oil supply problem or something?
[01:49:12] <cradek> http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/217089/
[01:49:22] <cradek> it doesn't quite look this bad, but close
[01:49:37] <cradek> maybe they are sacrificial
[01:51:42] <Eric_K> that doesn't look good
[01:51:44] <cradek> sorry, way OT
[01:51:46] <Eric_K> probably just cheap
[01:51:56] <Eric_K> because the load is near zero
[01:52:23] <cradek> yeah but it's a perpendicular drive - lots of slidey action
[01:54:21] <Eric_K> also OT, I need a connector for my chevy minivan
[01:54:43] <cradek> no you don't - use wire nuts
[01:54:57] <Eric_K> it plugs into the taillight
[01:55:15] <cradek> ha, we were working on a tail light today too - bad connector
[01:55:41] <cradek> three connectors in a row for no reason that I could see - I don't know why cars have so many.
[01:55:43] <tom4p> cradek, the surface doesnt look burnished,is there some voltage drop across the gear to flywheel? ( like electrical contact 'wear')
[01:56:15] <cradek> tom4p: those aren't my photos - just a similar wear pattern
[01:56:28] <tom4p> is yours shiny?
[01:56:35] <cradek> yes
[01:56:40] <tom4p> k, nm
[01:57:27] <cradek> apparently it's either normal or common, so I'll just fix it and move on
[01:58:49] <elmo40> cradek: only 150k? problem for sure
[01:58:59] <cradek> I bet they are made softer than the cam gear on purpose
[01:59:06] <elmo40> for sure!
[01:59:13] <elmo40> which is more difficult to change :P
[01:59:17] <cradek> yes a bit.
[01:59:38] <elmo40> the distributor gear used to be made of a brass-type alloy.
[01:59:42] <Eric_K> interesting to see evidence they don't expect the motor to make it to 200k though
[01:59:44] <cradek> it's ok, this truck won't last another 150k, so this'll be the last replacement.
[02:00:11] <elmo40> what year? didnt they stop using distributors?
[02:00:15] <cradek> 81
[02:00:45] <cradek> yeah they are a thing of the past now
[02:00:48] <cradek> and yay for that
[02:01:01] <cradek> a coil on each plug is sure an elegant solution
[02:01:26] <elmo40> cradek: as for the connectors... they make one wiring harnes for all possible options/styles. maybe another option was rear wiper, trailer wiring, defrost... who knows.
[02:01:37] <cradek> people who say they wish cars were made like in the old days are full of shit :-)
[02:01:45] <elmo40> to some extent
[02:01:54] <elmo40> i have a 32-buick, runs like a top.
[02:02:13] <elmo40> door closes MUCH better then my '05 gmc truck :P
[02:03:48] <elmo40> inline-8 is a wee bit less efficient, mind you
[02:03:54] <cradek> our cars are 52, 81, 96, 03
[02:04:06] <cradek> 03 goes on road trips, 81/96 do all the work
[02:05:55] <cradek> do you have a picture of your 32?
[02:06:48] <elmo40> the 32 uses babbit bearing on the rods!
[02:07:02] <elmo40> hold on. let me locate it.
[02:08:58] <elmo40> sorry, not on this comp, i guess.
[02:09:09] <elmo40> has some online but looks like the site is empty
[02:10:12] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[02:27:43] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[04:12:24] <Guest820> Anyone online?
[04:12:33] <pfred1> I am
[04:17:34] <Guest820> I was hoping to get some advice on making the connection between EMC and some stepper drivers. I'm interested in hobby-level experimenting with motors and various setups, but am not quite sure how to get started.
[04:18:47] <pfred1> Guest820 Guest820 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf
[04:20:00] <pfred1> Guest820 I made my own motor drivers
[04:20:44] <pfred1> Guest820 and I've run one off of EMC so far so if there is anything specific i may be able to help you out
[04:22:23] <Guest820> At this point I'm just interested in putting together some random motors from scanners, printers, etc. and see what I can make. Did you have a schematic to follow for your drivers?
[04:23:13] <pfred1> Guest820 yes i did a few of them in fact the driver ICs I choose did not have their own built in sequencers here are better available today
[04:23:52] <pfred1> Guest820 seems to me if yo uwant to go the salvage route you should try to aquire a commercial copier if you can they have the best motors in them
[04:24:21] <pfred1> Guest820 consumer grade goods are weak
[04:24:56] <pfred1> Guest820 but there is something to be said for building a driver for a weaker stepper motor first too it makes the learning curve a litle gentler
[04:25:35] <pfred1> first one i built was for a pancake floppy drive motor
[04:25:35] <Guest820> I think that might be a good idea, getting the basics down before I start spending real money.
[04:26:00] <pfred1> its not so much the money as the power needs increase the level for potential destruction goes up too
[04:26:40] <pfred1> little motors in failed drivers don't really do much in the way of catastrophic failure
[04:27:00] <Guest820> One thing I'm not clear on, is how the power gets distributed to each motor. Does every motor in a setup usually have it's own power supply tuned just to its specs?
[04:27:32] <pfred1> each stepper motor typically is connected to a unit called a driver or motor amplifier
[04:27:59] <pfred1> but you can and most usually do power all motor drivers off the same power supply but you don't have to of course
[04:28:28] <pfred1> emc issues step and direction control signals to the motor drivers
[04:29:01] <pfred1> though there is a mode where emc can issue motor sequencing directly to motors as well but performance is limited in that mode
[04:29:33] <pfred1> which is to say i think you're better off with a traditional driver and step and direction signal method
[04:30:33] <pfred1> I guess you could look at a motor driver as a very specific power supply for a stepper motor
[04:31:06] <pfred1> in some modes of operation stepper motor drivers resemble sine wave amplifiers too
[04:31:29] <pfred1> which makes them rather like very boring audio amplifiers
[04:31:41] <Guest820> Ok, that makes sense. So under EMC's hardware info, the Gecko Drives and other drivers are basically amplifying the dir/step signals to the power required by the motor.
[04:32:07] <pfred1> well they take the step and direction inputs and translate them into step sequences
[04:32:29] <pfred1> there are different modes of stepepr motor operation the simplest being full step
[04:32:32] <Guest820> I had the idea that emc was communicating through the parallel port with more complex info, but it's really sending the actual motor commands right?
[04:33:04] <pfred1> it tells the motor to move how fast and in what direction
[04:34:05] <Guest820> So when you say you've built your own drivers, can you manage multi axis systems like that? Using parallel output from an EMC pc.
[04:34:06] <pfred1> there are also external switches you can hook up to your system too limit switches home switches
[04:34:37] <pfred1> one parallel port configured in output gives you 12 output signals and 5 inputs
[04:35:26] <pfred1> so a 3 axis system needs 9 outputs for control of the motors leaves you a few extra to dedicate to other tasks such as say spindle control or estop
[04:35:28] <Guest820> Oh cool. I just found that section in the getting started pdf. So it can handle it easy.
[04:36:37] <pfred1> well make that 6 but you get the idea
[04:37:37] <pfred1> I made my own port buffer too
[04:38:09] <elmo40> what does a servo need? feedback from the encoder, direction...?
[04:38:10] <pfred1> which is often referred to as a BOB or Break Out Board
[04:38:22] <elmo40> steppers are simple. just confused on the servo part
[04:38:24] <pfred1> elmo40 yeah servos are closed loop systems
[04:39:25] <pfred1> I'm not sure I don't mess with them but I think servo encoders can be a few different configurations quadrandure (sp) seems a popular one
[04:39:54] <pfred1> but I believe there are other methods of servo encoding
[04:40:13] <Guest820> Without being concerned with precision, high-power or any fidelity, (mainly just for my own education) I'd like to try putting together a 3 axis system with scavenged steppers from equipment. What kind of circuit-building would I need to do that? I can follow a wiring schematic pretty well, but don't know much about electronics.
[04:40:34] <pfred1> I also believe ther are servo amplifiers that figure it all out for yo uand let you treat servos just like they're steppers
[04:41:05] <Guest820> I've seen a bunch of random plans on instructables.com, but don't really know what the minimum I need is.
[04:41:32] <elmo40> well, work backwards.
[04:41:48] <elmo40> stepper. driver board. power supply. cabling. emc
[04:41:57] <pfred1> Guest820 I'll tell you right now don't go with full step sequencing ths performance is poor I finally settled on half stepping as a happy medium but others go with microstepping
[04:42:17] <elmo40> if you wanted to actually move stuff... belt and pullies? threaded rod? your choice
[04:42:31] <pfred1> Guest820 I haven't seen a plan yet on Insrtuctables thats is worth the solder its put together with
[04:42:34] <elmo40> pfred1: such as 1/4 step?
[04:42:38] <Guest820> Haha.. nice.
[04:43:00] <pfred1> I mean yeah the motor will move but it'll move if I kick it across the floor too
[04:43:30] <pfred1> Guest820 you want to do this thing called current control driving a stepper motor
[04:43:36] <pfred1> or it will barely run
[04:44:10] <pfred1> people drive steppers 10 times over their rated voltage because of indictive issues with steppers
[04:44:19] <pfred1> higher voltages allow the field to change faster
[04:44:31] <pfred1> inductive even
[04:45:05] <Guest820> These "LiniSteppers" sound cheap and pretty good for low to mid-power stuff. Could that be an option?
[04:45:34] <pfred1> they seem to have moved onto the next IC in the family I used
[04:45:47] <pfred1> the SLA7062 their SLAm board
[04:45:53] <elmo40> hobbycnc.com is what i have. cheap little board.
[04:46:11] <pfred1> elmo40 allegro based?
[04:46:18] <elmo40> i have no idea
[04:46:33] <pfred1> elmo40 the big long IC whats it say on it?
[04:46:42] <pfred1> like SK
[04:47:02] <pfred1> does it have a big IC that looks like a transistor with too many legs?
[04:47:23] <elmo40> there is no big long IC
[04:47:24] <elmo40> http://www.hobbycnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/hobbycnc-ez-1.jpg
[04:47:44] <elmo40> ok, i see them, sorry
[04:47:44] <Guest820> Hey, that looks nice and simple.
[04:47:53] <pfred1> elmo40 yeah those htings that are facing the other way they're the driver ICS
[04:47:57] <elmo40> i can go open the box right now, if you want
[04:48:12] <pfred1> elmo40 they're allegros I can see just seeing the backs of them
[04:48:35] <elmo40> :P
[04:48:42] <pfred1> elmo40 I'll tell you right now the current adjustment pots on thos boards suck
[04:48:50] <elmo40> they do indeed
[04:49:02] <pfred1> elmo40 http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6498/stepproto1.jpg
[04:49:09] <pfred1> I used a 15 turn Bourns there
[04:49:14] <elmo40> ya, seen that one before
[04:49:31] <elmo40> that is all for one motor?
[04:49:32] <Guest820> Heh.. someone used the smudge tool to hide the writing on the photos
[04:49:40] <pfred1> the little long blue thing between the two tall white things its behind a green wire
[04:50:07] <elmo40> Guest820: never noticed that :P
[04:50:24] <pfred1> they're probably 7062s
[04:50:29] <elmo40> they could have done a better job of blending :P
[04:51:02] <pfred1> which are the next generation from what i built my motor drivers with
[04:51:07] <pfred1> they have built in sequencers
[04:51:32] <elmo40> i have an older board, though
[04:51:39] <pfred1> I think the PWM frequency may be internally locked too I can't remember
[04:51:58] <pfred1> or they did that on the next generation
[04:52:53] <pfred1> elmo40 so how do yo uget all of your signals out of your parallel port?
[04:53:17] <pfred1> elmo40 you have another BOB hooked to the PC and plug a wire from it to your driver board?
[04:53:54] <pfred1> oh wait there's the inputs on that blue connector
[04:54:25] <pfred1> but there's still 6 more outputs
[04:54:41] <elmo40> 7062M
[04:54:42] <pfred1> do they use 3 for the hold feature on the driver ICs?
[04:55:24] <elmo40> not 100% sure.
[04:55:29] <pfred1> elmo40 does your board use the chips hold feature?
[04:55:38] <elmo40> prob not
[04:55:44] <pfred1> it might
[04:55:51] <pfred1> though I'm not so sure if emc2 does
[04:56:07] <pfred1> I skipped that on my drivers so far
[04:56:09] <elmo40> it came with a Mach3 system
[04:56:29] <pfred1> mach3 might have used the holds
[04:56:31] <elmo40> ran the liveCD in it, not bad.
[04:56:42] <elmo40> waiting for 10.04 ;)
[04:57:23] <pfred1> hey if you want to run higher voltage swap out your 7805 for a HV version
[04:57:37] <pfred1> because your driver ICs are rated to 42V
[04:57:58] <pfred1> or is it 46 I forget one of the two
[04:58:30] <pfred1> only hting holding your board to 36 V is the 7805 regulator on it for the current voltage
[04:58:36] <elmo40> not sure what my PS gives, nor what the motors are rated for.
[04:58:41] <pfred1> the cheap bitches didn't throw you the HVs
[04:58:41] <GonMD> this is a longshot, but has anyone worked with direct metal laser sintering before?
[04:58:44] <elmo40> i know the Z is good for 45V
[04:59:22] <elmo40> only cutting with laser. no welding
[04:59:52] <pfred1> scintering sounds like 3D printing to me
[05:00:22] <elmo40> means to burn
[05:00:29] <GonMD> it puts down a layer of metal, pushes a very thin layer of binding power over the whole surface, drops another layer of metal, the fuses it with a fiber layer, then repeates
[05:00:43] <elmo40> fiber layer?
[05:00:54] <GonMD> laser even
[05:01:10] <pfred1> scintered metal is like a powder that had been consolidated
[05:02:14] <pfred1> GonMD I've seen it done with lasers and a plastic goop didn't realise they'd moved to metals
[05:02:41] <GonMD> yeah, its pretty new stuff. though im looking for diy stuff about it, or just research in general
[05:03:05] <elmo40> diy metal scintering. very interesting
[05:03:18] <pfred1> though I did hear the army had a 3D printer years ago for battlefield repairs of machinery
[05:03:26] <elmo40> try a blue-ray burner laser with Al powder
[05:03:47] <pfred1> heh you probably need a few more watts than that elmo
[05:03:56] <elmo40> pfred1: repairing machinery? in the battlefield? crazy, but awsome!!
[05:03:58] <GonMD> yeah, 200w is about standard
[05:04:17] <pfred1> 200? I'd have guessed 40 things are advancing
[05:04:34] <pfred1> elmo40 yeah i heard the thing could spit out tank treads
[05:04:38] <GonMD> because with this printing metal stuff, you can make parts that are physicall impossible to machine. like, cooling ducts that are weird odd angles that cannot be done any other way
[05:05:01] <elmo40> pfred1: tank treads would require intense energy to produce!
[05:05:08] <pfred1> GonMD yeah thats always been the big selling point with 3D printing
[05:05:23] <elmo40> or a hell of a long time!
[05:05:31] <Guest820> pfred1: I've been looking at some different drivers (cheap ones). What do you think of getting the "3-axis kit2
[05:05:41] <Guest820> pfred1: that this page mentions: http://www.piclist.com/tecHREF/io/stepper/linistep/index.htm
[05:05:56] <pfred1> Guest820 today its a great way to go but try to be aware of what you are buying
[05:06:44] <pfred1> the linistep is sort of an oddball it has its own unique features that not everyone would consider features really
[05:07:03] <pfred1> unless burnt fingers are a desirable feature that is
[05:07:40] <pfred1> and i find it interesting that they're pushing their new PWM based boards now too
[05:07:43] <Guest820> Ah. Some drivers that would power my dinky scanner experiment motors for now, but that could also be used later for nicer motors would be ideal.
[05:08:04] <pfred1> yeah linisteps are pretty limited with the sorts of motors they can drive
[05:08:09] <pfred1> 2A is max isn't it?
[05:08:45] <pfred1> Guest820 trick is get the motors first then figure out the driver you need
[05:08:57] <pfred1> Guest820 lots prefer bipolar over unipolar
[05:09:14] <pfred1> and you can't drive every motor with every driver
[05:09:52] <pfred1> an linisteps are unipolar
[05:10:33] <Guest820> I have one bipolar 4-wire, unmarked, but probably very low power, and another 5-wire unipolar, with 8003a9 resistance.
[05:11:03] <pfred1> bipolar drives for me at least are much more complicated to build
[05:11:35] <pfred1> though I do plan on tackling them sometime in the future
[05:12:04] <pfred1> I wouldn't consider bipolar drives the easiest to build
[05:12:19] <pfred1> by nature they're twice as hard being bipolar
[05:12:22] <Guest820> It sounds like I need to learn a few things about how this all works before I buy anything. Can you point me to any resources I might use to build a simple driver circuit on my own? Say, for the unipolar motor?
[05:12:30] <Guest820> Something I could mess with using EMC and parallel.
[05:12:41] <elmo40> try wiki, then go from there
[05:12:46] <elmo40> get to know what a stepper is
[05:12:50] <elmo40> how it makes a step
[05:12:57] <pfred1> Guest820 if you can get them the 7062s like elmo has on his biard are pretty simple to implement
[05:13:45] <pfred1> when i looked a while ago availibility was an issue
[05:14:04] <pfred1> some fly by night hobbiests were selling them at inflated prices no big parts dealers had them
[05:14:06] <elmo40> of the 7062?
[05:15:05] <pfred1> also I hear there's a lot of chinese knocl offs of them too
[05:15:25] <elmo40> what else is new...
[05:15:39] <pfred1> well they're not as good as the jap parts
[05:15:46] <pfred1> not nearly
[05:16:06] <pfred1> and dirtbags will chargs as much if not more for them
[05:16:11] <elmo40> i know
[05:16:33] <pfred1> so like i said when I looked which was a while ago now no big names had them
[05:17:02] <pfred1> but if you can get them they're not such a bad way to go
[05:17:22] <pfred1> elmo40 you should change out those lousy current trimmers
[05:17:47] <pfred1> elmo40 if you knew how sensitive that setting was you'd be in there with the cutters right now!
[05:18:09] <pfred1> there's no way yo ucna hit it with a 1 turn pot
[05:18:35] <pfred1> elmo40 for me its an eigth of a turn with a 15 turn trim pot!
[05:18:45] <pfred1> to get it set where it is best
[05:19:22] <elmo40> pfred1: how about 7043? it is also a motor driver.
[05:19:42] <pfred1> elmo40 don't know anything about it
[05:19:58] <elmo40> 7061 is a 5.3W amplifier
[05:20:05] <pfred1> the 62s are nice though from all I've seen of them
[05:20:52] <pfred1> elmo40 your 7062s look to be 126 watts max
[05:21:10] <pfred1> I think they're rated at 3 amps if memory serves
[05:21:48] <pfred1> elmo40 though for that you would need some heat sinking
[05:21:59] <Guest820> Is this the one? http://www.hobbycnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/sla7062m.jpg I'm actually living/working in Japan right now, and might be able to get a lot of these parts from a distributor I know here.
[05:22:22] <pfred1> Guest820 oh yeah if you're in japan you can get the good stuff!
[05:22:49] <pfred1> Guest820 you want them that say SK on them
[05:23:19] <pfred1> Guest820 but yeah implementing that driver IS is dead simple the next generation even simpler
[05:23:28] <Guest820> That's the manuf. name right? Looks like a funky S_K logo.
[05:23:36] <pfred1> Guest820 SanKen
[05:23:52] <pfred1> SanKen owns Allegro
[05:24:30] <pfred1> their stepper drivers seem the most bang for the buck to me today
[05:25:22] <pfred1> Guest820 http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Categories/ICs/motor.asp
[05:26:09] <pfred1> damn check this pig out! http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/970800/index.asp
[05:27:10] <pfred1> Guest820 this page may be better: http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Categories/Sanken/Motor_Drivers/Stepper_Motor_Unipolar_Drivers.asp
[05:27:47] <pfred1> this is what I'd use if I was building a driver today: http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/970701/index.asp
[05:27:57] <pfred1> its sexy!
[05:30:28] <pfred1> the SLA7078MPR
[05:30:51] <Guest820> Ok, I see the 7062 and some of these on the Sanken site: http://www.sanken-ele.co.jp/en/prod/semicon/pdf/data_sla7060me.pdf
[05:31:09] <Guest820> Looks complicated to solder (-_-)
[05:31:30] <pfred1> Guest820 you prefer flatpak surface mount?
[05:32:06] <pfred1> really the zip pads allow you to route through the device a little easier
[05:32:19] <pfred1> believe it or not
[05:32:23] <Guest820> I prefer plug and play where possible, like usb.
[05:32:46] <Guest820> Is there a simpler chip that will get the job done?
[05:33:09] <pfred1> Guest820 an saa 1027 if you can get one don't get much simpler than that
[05:33:51] <pfred1> they're so old and obselete though today that they've become rather collectable
[05:34:50] <pfred1> the astronomy crowd is into them
[05:35:34] <pfred1> Guest820 the 7062 is about as simple as it gets if you want any level of performance
[05:36:06] <Guest820> Ok, so with the 7062, if I've only got minimal current running through them, would they be cool enough to use in a breadboard?
[05:36:10] <pfred1> I mean that board elmo linked to is a 3 axis driver
[05:36:19] <pfred1> means you can control 3 motors with it
[05:36:40] <Guest820> Wow.
[05:36:53] <pfred1> well to plug a zip into a breadboard yo udo have to solder leads to the legs to get htem in there
[05:37:21] <pfred1> least i had to
[05:37:43] <Guest820> Zip.. is there a wikipedia page for that?
[05:37:58] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich, thanks... my existing banjo clamps to a ring/bearing seal that is held to the spindle by 2 tiny setscrews... I can see that has to go.. on your dwg, it looks like you added a seal below the new banjo
[05:38:47] <Guest820> Ah found it.
[05:38:49] <pfred1> Guest820 its just what they call the zig-zag leg pattern of the IC
[05:39:08] <pfred1> I guess from the bottom it sort of resembles a zipper?
[05:39:09] <Guest820> Got it, thanks. Ok, that's not bad at all.
[05:39:29] <pfred1> but it is a through hole device
[05:39:33] <pfred1> with actual legs
[05:39:52] <GonMD> okay...this takes the cake. a machine that can 3d print a building out of a marble like substance :|
[05:40:00] <pfred1> here's a shot of a couple I breadboarded: http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1937/pict0713.jpg
[05:40:32] <KimK> KimK is now known as KimK_
[05:40:37] <pfred1> GonMD they CNC boats today too
[05:41:02] <GonMD> wow. id just build stuff all day. if i had a machine like that
[05:41:13] <GonMD> looks like i need to marry rich :p
[05:41:20] <pfred1> GonMD I was checking out a CNC chainsaw the other day that made custom timber framing
[05:41:28] <KimK_> KimK_ is now known as KimK
[05:41:58] <pfred1> GonMD it was accurate to like .1mm or somethng silly like that
[05:42:11] <GonMD> wow
[05:42:20] <GonMD> i want to print myself a house :/
[05:42:20] <pfred1> yeah a chainsaw
[05:42:25] <Guest820> pfred1: Do those heatsinks need to be actively cooled? Would they not get that hot if I've only got miniscule motors hooked up?
[05:42:49] <pfred1> Guest820 you only need to heatsink if you are near the device's rating
[05:43:24] <pfred1> Guest820 i have mine set at an amp and i have next to no heatsink on it now and it doesn't evne get warm
[05:43:54] <pfred1> Guest820 I just put a heatsink on it because I'm just used to heatsinking power packages i guess
[05:44:20] <pfred1> but yeah they run cool
[05:45:00] <pfred1> but remember the 7062 is just unipolar it can't run a bipolar motor
[05:46:08] <pfred1> Guest820 go dumpster diving at a place that does commercial copier leasing drag some of them monsters home and strip them you'll have a goldmine of stuff for a homemade CNC machine
[05:46:46] <pfred1> they'll even have stepper driver ICs in them!
[05:46:53] <Guest820> Ok, so looking at the whole setup, I'd have a linux pc running EMC, with parallel cable leading to a break out box, so I can see what's going on. From there, the Step and Direction signals will have to go to each 7062 and it's board. If I only want the very basic features, can I omit some of those connections. That's a lot of pins.
[05:47:12] <Guest820> That sounds like a fun way to spend a weekend!
[05:47:25] <pfred1> Guest820 you cna put emc onto a linux PC but its easier just to get the install CD and use it
[05:48:27] <Guest820> Oh sure. I'm a lot more confident about the software side than I am about the electronics.
[05:48:52] <pfred1> Guest820 yeah well get a motor driver kit then
[05:48:53] <Guest820> Is there a simple schematic for what needs to go along with the driver IC ?
[05:49:00] <Guest820> the bare minimum.
[05:49:14] <pfred1> the datasheets should contain reference schematics
[05:49:28] <pfred1> theres where i got mine from
[05:49:49] <Guest820> They certainly do.
[05:50:57] <pfred1> Guest820 you checked out this site yet? http://www.pminmo.com/
[05:52:29] <Guest820> What a goldmine! I think I have some studying to do.
[05:52:39] <pfred1> Guest820 yeah he's OK
[05:52:54] <pfred1> Guest820 here's his 7062 board: http://www.pminmo.com/SLA7062/SLA7062.htm
[05:53:37] <pfred1> its just too bad he doesn't have the Eagle files available
[05:57:12] <pfred1> Guest820 if you really got the bug join this site endless entertainment: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/
[06:06:03] <GonMD> yeah...i want my house to be printed now
[06:06:39] <pfred1> GonMD ever seen the machine that prints out circuits I mean really prints them out?
[06:06:52] <pfred1> like it can print out resistors transistors everything
[06:06:56] <GonMD> no, but i am now extremely interested, and irritated that ill now be up another few hours
[06:07:03] <GonMD> links?
[06:07:28] <pfred1> I met a guy on here once that had one at work he said the ink to print out transistors was more expensive than gold
[06:08:23] <pfred1> http://www.printedelectronicsworld.com/articles/switzerland_printing_transistors_with_nano_ink_00000733.asp?sessionid=1
[06:09:40] <GonMD> wow
[06:09:49] <GonMD> that is incredible
[06:10:06] <pfred1> heh yeah the future is here now it just isn't evenly distributed yet
[06:10:14] <GonMD> well
[06:10:21] <GonMD> most of the cool stuff isnt DIY yet
[06:10:25] <GonMD> or open sourced
[06:10:44] <pfred1> we'll live to see nanoprinters as common desktop peripherals
[06:10:55] <GonMD> oh yeah. im 22 still :p
[06:11:05] <pfred1> lets see them enforce any kinds of laws when those days come to pass
[06:11:30] <pfred1> you'll be able to print out anything from a knife to a bioweapon
[06:11:45] <GonMD> "Warning! By opening this box and using this personal fabricator, you agree not to make another fabricating machine"
[06:11:58] <GonMD> that will be on boxes soon enough :p
[06:12:20] <pfred1> but when I grab an old machine out of the dumps I'm not agreeing to anything now am I?
[06:12:30] <GonMD> i suppose not
[06:12:54] <GonMD> im in works with a friend of mine to build an open source framework called CubeSpawn
[06:12:58] <pfred1> its funny when i grab old PCs and fix them and read people's crap they left on them
[06:13:06] <GonMD> and then people can develop modules for it
[06:13:10] <pfred1> heh i was at that site yesterday
[06:13:25] <GonMD> i got to see the machine in person yesterday :p
[06:13:29] <GonMD> 1 up'd
[06:13:53] <pfred1> GonMD well tomorrow see if you find someone else who's even been to the site i dare ya
[06:14:13] <GonMD> yeah. user base it quite small. how did you hear about it
[06:14:47] <pfred1> ah i linked into it from another site about a homebrewed CNC machine I can't remember the exact tie in maybe they used a driver design?
[06:15:08] <GonMD> ah. anyway, i am really excited about this design
[06:15:14] <pfred1> but there was a link on their page and it sounded interesting so I clicked through to it
[06:15:36] <pfred1> it is an interesting concept the whole flow model etc
[06:16:05] <GonMD> i like it that hes wanting to just make the framework
[06:16:18] <GonMD> and then let people design the modules for it for infinate adaptation
[06:17:37] <GonMD> he needs a few parts machined, so im gonna do that
[06:18:42] <pfred1> heh there is it already dark blued link
[06:19:12] <pfred1> the little picture reminded me of kitchen racks
[06:19:32] <pfred1> people sure do like that 8020
[06:19:39] <GonMD> its brilliant
[06:19:45] <GonMD> its like, CNC erector set
[06:19:58] <GonMD> its what my cnc router is made of. i love it
[06:20:01] <Jymmm> $$$$$$
[06:20:15] <pfred1> yeah give me kindorf channel any day
[06:20:27] <pfred1> I hate aluminum!
[06:20:43] <GonMD> never heard of kindorf time to google
[06:20:50] <pfred1> unistrut
[06:21:22] <pfred1> http://www.unistrut.com/
[06:22:05] <GonMD> why the hate of aluminum?
[06:22:11] <pfred1> though its always referred to as kindorf channel on jobsites
[06:22:33] <pfred1> I don't like to weld it and its weak I just prefer real steel is all
[06:23:03] <GonMD> aluminum welding is a bitch
[06:23:18] <pfred1> I'm more comfortable working in steel than aluminum
[06:23:29] <pfred1> yeah and i got a TIG welder too
[06:23:41] <pfred1> and i still can't stand welding aluminum!
[06:24:08] <pfred1> crap sucks to grind
[06:24:44] <GonMD> so unistrut looks p cool
[06:24:52] <pfred1> its what the pros use
[06:25:05] <GonMD> what have you built out of it
[06:25:12] <GonMD> you got a website
[06:25:21] <pfred1> you use it for pipe hangers or hanging electrical boxes
[06:26:12] <pfred1> one place i built used to have its own website but last time I went looking for it I couldn't find it anymore
[06:26:45] <GonMD> still, i like tinkering with 8020
[06:27:13] <pfred1> my favorite structural stock of all time has to be 3" lightweight C channel
[06:27:23] <pfred1> I look at it like metal 2x4s
[06:27:30] <GonMD> LOL
[06:27:32] <GonMD> yeah
[06:27:57] <pfred1> I've made all sorts of junk with it
[06:28:16] <pfred1> horses tables dollies
[06:28:42] <GonMD> im thinking about trying to start a hackerspace in my town
[06:30:13] <pfred1> I think the mechmate uses solid unistrut in it someplace thought i saw some
[06:30:25] <pfred1> you know channel without all of the holes?
[06:30:26] <Jymmm> pfred1: CL free is much easier =)
[06:30:48] <pfred1> Jymmm whats that/
[06:31:38] <Jymmm> pfred1: http://craigslist.org/ free shit section =)
[06:32:29] <pfred1> Jymmm i belong to freecycle by me but people around here are so dirt poor if they don't want it odds are you don't either!
[06:32:46] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah
[06:32:58] <pfred1> Jymmm its funny to listen them beg for such basic items though ;)
[06:33:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: I gave away a mattress pad today that I dont use anymore
[06:34:22] <Jymmm> But I've gotten (for free) a healthrider, computer, and a bunch of other stuff
[06:34:48] <pfred1> town i used to live in the dumps there was awesome
[06:35:20] <Jymmm> They dont allows dump diving around here.
[06:35:27] <Jymmm> that I know of anyway
[06:35:45] <GonMD> thats what the middle of the night and flashlights are around for ;)
[06:35:45] <pfred1> if me and a friend went who was going to tell us we couldn't?
[06:36:03] <pfred1> heck most of the time I have no troubles
[06:36:16] <GonMD> give the gate guard a few bucks :p
[06:36:31] <pfred1> but yeah the pricks that worked there would give us dirty looks because they wanted to ebay the crap themselves
[06:36:42] <Jymmm> Eh, CL is good enough for me
[06:36:50] <pfred1> like my tax dollars weren't already paying their salaries
[06:36:53] <GonMD> love craiglist
[06:37:17] <Jymmm> Hell, I got a commercial paper cutter the other day, cuts up to 1" thick
[06:37:28] <Jymmm> HEAVY MOFO too!
[06:37:35] <pfred1> they're handy i have a little one i use a lot
[06:37:47] <Jymmm> No this is a gilutine
[06:37:52] <Jymmm> (sp)
[06:38:23] <pfred1> it has an arm with a blade on it and a table right?
[06:38:24] <Jymmm> I thought I might be able to use it to cut plastics and PCB - no dice =(
[06:38:54] <pfred1> best way to cut PCB is score it a few times each time vary the angle of the knife perpendicular to the straight edge
[06:38:57] <Jymmm> pfred1: It has one arm for clamp, then a larger arm to lower the blade.
[06:39:10] <pfred1> so you sort of cut a V channel in the board then snap it on the edge of a table
[06:39:36] <Jymmm> The blade alone is 3/8" thick, 17" long
[06:39:42] <pfred1> I get clean straight cuts when I do that
[06:40:20] <pfred1> you know you're doing it right when on about the third pass a little curl of board comes up
[06:40:34] <Jymmm> Eh, *maybe* I'll keep it, but the base plate has gotta go. the top has gotta weigh 60-80 lbs
[06:40:37] <pfred1> once that happens snap it
[06:40:51] <Jymmm> and it's like 30" square
[06:41:32] <pfred1> I use my paper cutter more than I'd think i would it beats scissors if you need a straight cut
[06:42:10] <pfred1> and sometimes i make patterns and stuff and need straight cuts
[06:42:36] <Jymmm> http://i42.tinypic.com/1zpifir.jpg
[06:42:56] <GonMD> impressive
[06:45:10] <pfred1> Jymmm its a nice gadget
[06:48:25] <pfred1> i used to get tons of stereos out of my old town dumps
[06:48:38] <pfred1> guess what was wrong with 90% of them?
[06:48:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: Yeah, just wish I could cut more with it.
[06:49:41] <pfred1> Jymmm like i said if you score PCB the right way it should break straight and clean for you
[06:50:00] <pfred1> beats bandsawing it or what have you
[06:50:36] <Jymmm> pfred1: I dont need a guilotine for that, just a box knife
[06:51:08] <pfred1> yup thats what i use to score PCB utility knife
[06:52:10] <pfred1> still I find my paper cutter handy for well cutting paper
[06:52:30] <pfred1> but its like a quarter the size of the one you got
[06:52:40] <pfred1> so its easier for me to justify hanging onto it I suppose
[06:54:59] <Jymmm> Well, I have a normal papercutter, this if for thick stuff, up to 1"
[06:56:59] <pfred1> I got this stereo at the dumps it rox! http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8276/samsung2.jpg
[06:57:24] <Jymmm> doubles as a room heater too
[06:57:43] <pfred1> well sometimes I like to play it loud
[06:57:56] <pfred1> and it does get hot then
[06:58:17] <pfred1> I had like 4 speakers connected to it back then too
[06:58:30] <pfred1> now i just use it for rear fill with another amp
[06:58:43] <Jymmm> heh
[06:59:55] <pfred1> you can see it in this pic: http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5448/pict0346z.jpg
[07:00:10] <pfred1> no fan anymore
[07:00:33] <Jymmm> Dude, get rid of the encyclopedias!
[07:00:36] <pfred1> I got that red toolbox at the dumps too but i painted it
[07:01:04] <pfred1> Jymmm those aren't regular enclysopedias thery're ond popular mechanics enclyslopedias!
[07:01:29] <pfred1> all of those books are about woodworking or metalworking
[07:01:34] <Jymmm> Scan em and get rid of em
[07:01:53] <pfred1> nah I collect them
[07:02:01] <Jymmm> fair enough
[07:02:05] <pfred1> they're hard to get
[07:02:20] <pfred1> I got all of the easy ones now
[07:02:43] <pfred1> I got that marshall amp at the dumps too
[07:03:07] <pfred1> though the one sitting next to it that i made i do like better
[07:03:34] <Jymmm> :)
[07:04:22] <pfred1> heh and my sawed off PDP 11/34 rolling tool cabinet under the tool box
[07:04:40] <pfred1> those are the HDDs the drawers
[07:05:09] <pfred1> nice drawer slides let me tell you full extensions
[07:05:09] <Jymmm> Oh that was the other thing I got for free last week... a heavy Duty 5 drawer file cabinet - great for tool storage.
[07:05:56] <pfred1> Digital did not skimp when it came to hardware for their machines
[07:06:13] <Jymmm> I was able to empty two boxes and 7 plastic drawers and still have the bottom drawer empty
[07:06:33] <pfred1> see the silver vise in that picture/ got that at the dumps too
[07:06:39] <Jymmm> =)
[07:06:55] <pfred1> though i made the tripod for it
[07:07:35] <pfred1> I cut 2 90s in half on a chop saw then welded them to the bottom of that diamond plate
[07:07:44] <elmo40> pfred1: they are heat sinked. the Z is rather large, other axis are smaller heat sinks.
[07:08:11] <pfred1> elmo40 what is heatsinked?
[07:08:32] <elmo40> sorry, i guess i scrolled up a wee bit ;)
[07:08:48] <elmo40> my 7062's
[07:09:03] <pfred1> elmo40 yo udrawing a lot of current off them?
[07:09:26] <pfred1> elmo40 I draw an amp off my 7026 and it doesn't even get warm
[07:09:51] <pfred1> I put a piece of aluminum angle on it just to feel good about it but honestly I don't think it even needs it
[07:09:53] <elmo40> not much. those pots are single-turns... no idea what i am drawing
[07:10:01] <elmo40> maybe .7Amps
[07:10:15] <pfred1> elmo40 put a ammeter in line with it
[07:10:50] <elmo40> ya, maybe... the next setup will be much more sophishtamakated ;)
[07:10:59] <pfred1> strangely my motor drivers run best when i have them hooked up to a Simpson meter
[07:11:16] <pfred1> but i can hardly justify a Simpson 260 for every motor driver
[07:12:05] <elmo40> high voltage is fine for steppers but the amperage needs to be controlled. correct?
[07:12:07] <pfred1> I swear there is nothing more annoying and frustrating than getting performance out of stepper motors
[07:12:14] <elmo40> they are constant V, variable A ?
[07:12:24] <elmo40> is that how they make the speed?
[07:13:06] <pfred1> steppers have big coils of wire that make magnetic fields coils are inductive inductors are prone to not change state
[07:13:20] <elmo40> pict0346z.jpg doesnt show any mills/lathes. where is your machine?
[07:13:21] <pfred1> they have inertia
[07:13:33] <elmo40> ok
[07:13:36] <pfred1> elmo40 scroll to the right
[07:14:05] <pfred1> that green thing with the handle hanging off it is a DJ-32 bench mill
[07:14:14] <elmo40> i see
[07:14:34] <pfred1> and there's a lathe or three next to it out of camera shot
[07:14:44] <elmo40> that was my point :P
[07:15:15] <elmo40> i need a spindle and RPM controlled motor. I want to be able to tap.
[07:15:50] <pfred1> tapping can require more than that sometimes you need spoecial taps for power tapping too
[07:16:51] <pfred1> not the kinds of taps you can buy at the corner hardware store
[07:16:58] <elmo40> not too worried about the tooling. that is covered. trying to make the equipment, thats all :)
[07:17:17] <elmo40> i dont buy tooling at any corner hardware store... it is ALL chinese.
[07:17:22] <elmo40> at n.a. prices!
[07:17:26] <elmo40> bastards
[07:17:38] <elmo40> they replaced everything with stuff that should cost 1/10th !
[07:17:45] <elmo40> but keep the prices the same
[07:17:59] <pfred1> years ago I bought chinese when I didn't know any better but i've had a lot of failures
[07:18:39] <elmo40> i am planning on a 4-axis horizontal mill.
[07:18:53] <elmo40> with a table of 15" square (or so)
[07:18:59] <pfred1> hey deal with the chinamen direct go to Horrible Fright
[07:19:18] <elmo40> and Z travel of 12"
[07:19:36] <elmo40> i have dealt with them. used to install automotive hoists and tire changers.
[07:19:42] <elmo40> such garbage
[07:19:44] <elmo40> i hated it
[07:19:52] <elmo40> they broke in the same day!
[07:20:16] <elmo40> especially the tire changers. very weak metal (same dimensions as the german machines just shit metal)
[07:20:17] <pfred1> yeah i try to buy quality tools on the used market today
[07:20:34] <elmo40> new or used it must be quality.
[07:20:37] <pfred1> I get deals the chinese can't even compete with
[07:20:39] <elmo40> if i can i try before i buy
[07:20:41] <pfred1> and swiss quality
[07:20:53] <elmo40> not much swiss anymore
[07:21:03] <pfred1> nope but I find it
[07:21:19] <pfred1> I got a swiss high speed die grinder thing is amazing
[07:21:21] <elmo40> czeck stuff is rock solid! the germans stole all their equipment during WW2 and copied it.
[07:21:29] <pfred1> paid $10 for it
[07:21:35] <elmo40> nice
[07:22:00] <pfred1> and when I say high speed i mean high 100,000 RPM speed!
[07:22:43] <elmo40> i too have a few older pop mech magazines lying around :P maybe 40 or so editions. Been looking for more at garage sales and such.
[07:22:49] <elmo40> 100k? what kind of bearings?
[07:22:59] <pfred1> hell if I know
[07:23:17] <pfred1> thing sounds like a little jet engine as it winds up
[07:23:33] <pfred1> it takes a while to get up to speed
[07:24:35] <pfred1> but i hit garage sales
[07:24:51] <pfred1> got a mikutoyo depth gauge once for $3
[07:25:24] <pfred1> plus a bunch of parallel setup blocks v block other junk for next to nothing
[07:25:58] <pfred1> got a weller soldering station in a box of stuff for $10
[07:26:37] <archivist> but dont like spending on chairs :) /me notes the cushion
[07:27:03] <archivist> I like freebees from skips too
[07:27:52] <pfred1> archivist that chair is folded up now but I'm still using the pad in another chair keep the chair from getting too dirty you know?
[07:32:36] <elmo40> http://qurl.org/ix0
[07:32:41] <elmo40> all the backissues you ever wanted!
[09:20:44] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:32:05] <JT-Dev> anyone know the formula for calculating the thread depth for a normal 60 degree inch thread?
[11:35:05] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard
[11:36:43] <JT-Dev> wow that's some calculation :)
[11:36:53] <alex_joni> you wanted a formula ;)
[11:36:57] <alex_joni> I'd have used a lookup table
[11:36:58] <JT-Dev> lol
[11:39:54] <JT-Dev> here's a nice chart http://www.shender4.com/thread_chart.htm
[11:41:06] <JT-Dev> now I have to be more precise than keep cutting till the nut screws on :)
[11:41:34] <anonimasu> machinist's handbook
[11:41:56] <anonimasu> the sandvik catalog contains info about pass depths for cnc:ing
[11:42:53] <JT-Dev> my machinist's handbook is at the other shop and I'll look at the sandvik catalog thanks
[11:45:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni learns a new word: metonymically
[11:53:09] <JT-Dev> sandvik has an online calculator that is kinda neat
[12:10:56] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:28:43] <JT-Work> when you have a drill chuck on your turret is there an easy way to find the center of the spindle to get your X offset?
[13:34:46] <WalterN> JT-Work: not really... sometimes I like to put some solid stock in both the turret and the spindle and use shimstock to touch off
[13:35:38] <JT-Work> ok, use the solid bars to measure with
[13:36:17] <WalterN> sometimes I'll just face it off and eyeball the drill to the center
[13:36:27] <WalterN> (not a good way)
[13:37:54] <WalterN> use pin gauges if you can <3
[13:38:08] <JT-Work> ok thanks
[13:49:00] <cradek> I also just eyeball it
[14:28:29] <JT-Work> cradek: has a calibrated eye I think :)
[15:00:38] <alex_joni> In a metalepsis, a word is substituted metonymically for a word in a previous trope, so that a metalepsis can be called, maddeningly but accurately, a metonymy of a metonymy.
[16:02:17] <KimK> alex_joni: Yikes!
[16:20:31] <Jymmm> Popular Science 1870-2000 http://books.google.com/books?id=wzsEAAAAMBAJ
[16:20:41] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1655443183.html
[16:20:59] <Jymmm> Every issue of Popular Mechanics from 1912-2005 http://books.google.com/books?id=_90DAAAAMBAJ&dq=popular+mechanics+gas+engine+date:1890-1910&lr=&num=30&as_brr=3&source=gbs_all_issues_r&cad=3&atm_aiy=1900#all_issues_anchor
[16:26:58] <i_tarzan_> great
[16:30:11] <MattyMatt> indexing them would be fun
[16:30:45] <MattyMatt> once you've leeched and OCRed them all
[16:31:34] <elmo40> Jymmm: expensive surface grinder. looks OLD
[16:39:45] <elmo40> is the parallel port the prefered way to communicate with the board?
[16:41:42] <cradek> what is "the board"?
[16:43:59] <elmo40> the motor control board... driver board... power board? whatever you call it.
[16:44:09] <elmo40> the thing in between EMC and Stepper/Servo ;)
[16:44:16] <elmo40> i think i found my home!
[16:44:18] <elmo40> http://qurl.org/jx0
[16:45:41] <GonMD> a house fit for a god
[16:46:32] <elmo40> well, 3000 sq ft is rather small... and 400amp service, i dont know
[16:46:33] <elmo40> :P
[16:46:58] <GonMD> i live in 2k just fine. my friends 5k house is too big for me. they dont even use all the room
[16:47:06] <cradek> in general the smart hardware that works with emc will be PCI, EPP (parport), or ISA. Dumber hardware used for software-generated step/dir is always parport.
[16:47:19] <GonMD> now, 2k house and a 5k shop, that would be sweet
[16:47:42] <elmo40> for sure
[16:47:51] <elmo40> this add has a smaller house then shop. just what i like!
[16:49:11] <GonMD> buddy of mine has a general steel building. half inside is contractor housing, and opening directly off the kitchen from a set of french doors is a insulated centeral heat and air cooled 4 bay car garage
[17:36:29] <Jymmm> Yes, It's Spring. But remember when you wanted to work in your shop and were freezing your ass off??? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1655889531.html
[17:37:46] <MattyMatt> go geothermal. build your shop in a deep mine
[17:39:54] <MattyMatt> that wouldn't be a totally stupid idea in UK since the coal mines got shut down. you can buy them for peanuts
[17:40:08] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Fine, bring your backho and dig the mine!
[17:41:20] <GonMD> nah man, just dig a pit and build a monolithic cement dome house and then bury it
[17:41:20] <MattyMatt> the first job would be permanent walls to hold the ceiling up
[17:41:24] <GonMD> thats what i plan on doing
[17:42:30] <MattyMatt> the trick is doing it quickly enough so there's no aerial photo evidence :)
[17:43:02] <GonMD> since skyne....i mean google owns the skys
[17:43:37] <MattyMatt> the advantage of depth is free heat
[17:44:06] <Jymmm> We have lots of wineries here.... they build wine caves all the time. They blow the cement on the walls after installing anchors.
[17:44:43] <MattyMatt> a deep coal mine needs more than that, I think
[17:44:53] <Jymmm> Not just heat, but cool too. iirc it's 62 or 58 degrees
[17:45:16] <MattyMatt> that's near the surface. down deep it's constant heat
[17:45:36] <MattyMatt> it's over 100 in diamond mines
[17:46:12] <Jymmm> Well, diamond is the #1 thermal conductor
[17:46:20] <MattyMatt> dunno what depth gives ideal constant 68
[17:47:55] <MattyMatt> "Away from tectonic plate boundaries, it is 25-30°C per km of depth in most of the world."
[17:48:42] <Jymmm> 75 to 500 fee
[17:48:46] <Jymmm> t
[17:48:53] <MattyMatt> so ~50F per km which is ~4000ft
[17:48:55] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo-exchange
[17:52:22] <MattyMatt> it's the obvious thing to do with all heavy industry, bury it deep
[17:52:43] <Jymmm> The ironic thing is that they had the technology 200 years ago to do this
[17:52:50] <MattyMatt> cold water in, products & warm water out
[17:54:26] <MattyMatt> we're doing it by stealth & cut&cover. there's a car plant in UK with 4ft of soil on the roof, and a 4 acre wild meadow
[17:56:20] <GonMD> 4ft of soil is quite heavy
[17:58:02] <MattyMatt> aye. I dunno if the vaulted the inside. I've only seen pics of the outside
[18:01:55] <frallzor> * frallzor has reached a milestone in the build
[18:02:42] <MattyMatt> 7.9 acres. Rolls Royce factory at Goodwood
[18:03:35] <MattyMatt> it doesn't look like 4ft of soil to me tho
[18:03:44] <MattyMatt> http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/#/goodwood/
[18:04:29] <MattyMatt> frallzor, which one?
[18:05:21] <MattyMatt> I would be ready for first cut today but I'm stiffening my Z first
[18:07:13] <MattyMatt> and I ought to box in my electrics
[18:08:11] <MattyMatt> I'll mill some air tonight
[18:11:26] <MattyMatt> are modern relays really as good as this one claims? it's 1/2" cube approx and is rated 20A @ 250V
[18:12:50] <archivist_attic> depends, see life as well, and dc switching specs
[18:13:11] <MattyMatt> I intended to drive a bigger relay for spindle power, but this one may do the job
[18:15:36] <MattyMatt> ah if it blows, I'll replace it, it's probably cheaper to get than a big old electromech one
[18:17:27] <MattyMatt> my spindle is only 140W anyway
[18:20:14] <MattyMatt> I'll put in a 5A fuse, or a circuit breaker, and label the 13A socket the "spindle" plugs into
[18:21:09] <MattyMatt> so if momma plugs in her hoover, my circuit board doesn't melt
[18:22:08] <GonMD> lol
[18:23:27] <MattyMatt> hmm, I haven't thought about the vacuum cleaner for this machine recently, for dust extraction/blowing
[18:23:37] <JT-Work> what is the difference between F-Cut and T-Cut inserts for a cut off tool?
[18:23:43] <MattyMatt> I'll manage without for now
[18:30:57] <archivist_attic> JT-Work, bias for the pip left ?
[18:31:25] <archivist_attic> sandvik do L R and N for theirs
[18:34:10] <Jymmm> Hey, did luggables have hdd's?
[18:34:24] <andypugh> which luggables?
[18:34:28] <Jymmm> any
[18:34:31] <andypugh> The Mac Portable did.
[18:34:48] <Jymmm> which was that? Mac Classic?
[18:35:09] <Jymmm> oh
[18:35:27] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Portable
[18:35:45] <archivist_attic> andypugh, look at that mill again, he has changed the starting price!
[18:36:02] <andypugh> I noticed! I didn't know you could do that.
[18:36:11] <archivist_attic> nor did I
[18:36:13] <andypugh> You must have looked too interested.
[18:36:19] <archivist_attic> hehe
[18:36:23] <Jymmm> if there are no bids or not the last 73 hours
[18:36:29] <jackc> link?
[18:37:25] <andypugh> I had a Mac Portable for a while. It was fairly cool, for example you could click out the trackball, slide the keyboard across, and refit the ball on the left. (Or use a numeric pad instead)
[18:38:01] <Jymmm> That's not really a luggable though.
[18:38:32] <andypugh> Too heavy you mean? It had a lead-acid battery.
[18:38:35] <Jymmm> THIS is a luggable http://www.kliers.net/computers/Kaypro_II.jpg
[18:38:55] <Jymmm> 9" CRT =)
[18:39:09] <andypugh> Milling machine: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320504359008
[18:39:12] <cradek> haha I remember those terrible screen glare filters made from nylons
[18:39:51] <andypugh> 9" screen? Luxury! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1
[18:40:55] <Jymmm> Mine was an Osborne. 2 5.25" fdd, 9" amber CRT
[18:41:35] <Jymmm> I think I still have the CP/M floppies around here somewhere along with calcstar, wordstar, etc
[18:43:25] <Jymmm> ok, 7"
[18:43:40] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Executive
[18:45:13] <andypugh> There was a HD for the Vixen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Vixen
[18:45:18] <Jymmm> QUAD Z80's LOL
[18:49:30] <andypugh> Ooh! This is rather wild, I never knew they existed.
[18:49:31] <andypugh> http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5140.html
[18:50:12] <frallzor> MattyMatt the milestone is reached and passed now!
[18:50:49] <frallzor> turned out to be a simple task and im off to the mechanical finish line quite rapid now
[18:52:19] <archivist_attic> andypugh, I have one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulmont_Magnum
[18:54:06] <andypugh> There were a couple of Tandy Portables in the skip at work a few weeks ago. I left them there. (AKA the TRS80 Portable) http://oldcomputers.net/trs100.html
[18:54:48] <cradek> the model 100 was the best laptop for years
[18:55:53] <Jymmm> Cool, a built in printer
[18:56:05] <cradek> I guess they're < $100 on ebay... you didn't leave too much behind
[18:56:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:56:47] <cradek> you **wish** you could put 4 AAs in your laptop today and have it run for months...
[18:56:49] <SWPadnos> I was just discussing the Tandy 100 last night
[18:57:09] <andypugh> I think I would like a Canon Cat
[18:57:49] <cradek> er ok, "only" 20 hours on a set of batteries...
[19:05:49] <andypugh> archivist_attic: I think £500 is too much for that mill, you could buy a conventional machine for that money which would be more useful, and £500 is a lot for a 2-ton novelty magazine rack.
[19:06:13] <archivist_attic> its lighter than that
[19:06:33] <andypugh> Oh, in that case, buy it :-)
[19:06:47] <cradek> I can't quite figure out what it is
[19:06:51] <archivist_attic> still out of work cannot afford
[19:07:10] <archivist_attic> seller thinks its a die sinker
[19:07:13] <andypugh> archivist_attic: Do you have the link to your better pictures?
[19:08:04] <archivist_attic> links to pics http://www.archivist.info/blog/
[19:08:13] <andypugh> And a few more http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/beichle-universal-mill-sale-109740/
[19:08:23] <archivist_attic> and that links to the earlier version
[19:09:26] <andypugh> Two C-axes with variable offset, 2 Z-axes with variable alignment, semi-conventional X and Y, all turned on its side.
[19:09:46] <andypugh> I think it would need a special kinematics module :-)
[19:09:48] <archivist_attic> I think universal mill is probably right, its designed to be used seated
[19:11:50] <MattyMatt> the rom in the model 100 was the last code bgates wrote for M$
[19:14:33] <archivist_attic> my next project is to update my mill with a new column and base (from an F Pollard drilling machine) and ball screws
[19:15:16] <andypugh> [TRAJ] Coordinates = X Y Z C C V W :-)
[19:16:06] <andypugh> Sorry, I mean X Y Z B C C W don't I?
[19:16:47] <MattyMatt> can you have 2 named C? I doubt it
[19:16:47] <andypugh> So do I
[19:17:08] <andypugh> Which just goes to show that even EMC can't cope with german wierdness
[19:17:27] <aystarik> name second as A...
[19:17:27] <MattyMatt> C1 & C2
[19:17:51] <MattyMatt> if that's acceptable to gcode, 2 char names
[19:17:51] <aystarik> AXIS will not show it correctly, but EMC should not care?
[19:17:51] <andypugh> "It is permitted to write an axis name twice (e.g., X Y Y Z for a gantry machine) but this has no effect."
[19:18:03] <archivist_attic> I think for certain machine standard notation does not apply :)
[19:18:42] <andypugh> No, there are only X Y Z A B C U V W but aystarik is correct. I call my rotary "A" regardless of how it is bolted on.
[19:19:31] <MattyMatt> that's my next project, a plywood rotary
[19:19:54] <andypugh> Lazy-Susan bearing?
[19:19:58] <MattyMatt> yep
[19:20:41] <andypugh> Certainly inepensive: http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Triangle-Lazy-Susan-Bearing-20991.htm
[19:20:44] <MattyMatt> or maybe skate bearings, and a plywood 4 jay chuck on the shaft
[19:22:43] <andypugh> 4 highly-trained corvids holding the work in their beaks?
[19:23:09] <hydraglyph> lol
[19:23:17] <MattyMatt> ah, 4 bolts will hold a lump of wood while I deremel it :)
[19:24:21] <MattyMatt> lazy susan is probably the way to go tho, as it needs a big gear
[19:24:43] <MattyMatt> aka delrin chopping board
[19:25:34] <aa-danimal-shop> afternoon
[19:26:29] <MattyMatt> milling a big gear will be fun without a rotary
[19:26:43] <MattyMatt> giant teeth on mk1
[19:27:37] <jackc> hobbing or straight up milling?
[19:29:22] <MattyMatt> straight milling
[19:30:10] <andypugh> I might be hobbing properly quite soon, I am working on the head-tilt for my mini-mill.
[19:32:01] <jackc> oh boy
[19:33:27] <andypugh> (I am worried that it will be too flimsy, plan 'B" is a new vertical slide casting.
[19:33:57] <andypugh> (Which might be replaced by plan "C": "Buy a proper mill and stop messing about")
[19:34:11] <jackc> (i need to do that :-/ )
[19:34:31] <andypugh> We know where there is a nice Beichle :-)
[19:52:50] <frallzor> sooon my Y-axis is finally done, to tired to do more today!
[19:53:23] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[19:56:01] <frallzor> got the first rail attached for it, second to be done tomorrow
[19:56:15] <frallzor> = all kind of complete mechanically
[20:08:54] <andypugh> That's the easy bit over with then :)
[20:09:33] <frallzor> the fun bit
[20:16:00] <andypugh> Am I the only one who wishes that G3 took absolute rather than relative values for the centre-point?
[20:17:18] <frallzor> yes.. yes you are
[20:18:33] <andypugh> I just think it would save a lot of hard sums when doing partial arcs.
[20:18:59] <frallzor> what is G3 btw?
[20:19:20] <andypugh> G2 the other way?
[20:19:29] <andypugh> Isn't it?
[20:20:19] <frallzor> what is G2? :P
[20:20:42] <andypugh> It's a G-code dude! You will be asking what G83 is next!
[20:20:45] <cradek> andypugh: g90.1
[20:21:08] <frallzor> I have no idea how G-code works =P
[20:21:16] <frallzor> I just cam and let the software do its thang!
[20:21:31] <andypugh> Ooh! Thanks Cradek!
[20:21:50] <andypugh> (And I guess that feature means that I am not the only one?)
[20:22:15] <cradek> andypugh: if that validates your feelings somehow, I suppose so :-)
[20:22:54] <cradek> like always, a link to the best page of gcode docs ever: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode.html
[20:23:18] <andypugh> I have just made the most peculiarly-dimensioned drawing to use the relative version, but next time G90.1 it is.
[20:23:32] <andypugh> That's my home-page Cradek..
[20:25:00] <andypugh> I was looking in G2/G3 rather than G90
[20:25:51] <cradek> to be honest I don't recall why jmk added that, but I remember him doing it
[20:26:00] <cradek> just for the hell of it I guess?
[20:26:49] <cradek> maybe to make compatibility with super old gcode programs easier
[20:26:54] <andypugh> I think it makes the maths easier sometimes.
[20:27:05] <cradek> my old mill had absolute arc centers in g90 mode, and relative in g91
[20:27:13] <cradek> so I just programmed all arcs in g91 so emc could also load its gcode
[20:29:06] <aa-danimal-shop> that sucks.... machine lost power in the middle of a cut
[20:29:57] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, i changed my x belt yesterday on the hnc
[20:30:12] <aa-danimal-shop> it's fairly easy to do
[20:30:38] <cradek> neat
[20:31:54] <aa-danimal-shop> just pull off the grey cover that houses the resolver and tach, then remove the tach/resolver/home switch cluster, then remove the steel plate it mounts to, and the belt is behind that. the servo loosens with 4 bolts, and you can slip the old belt off and put the new one on. then reverse.
[20:32:22] <aa-danimal-shop> however, that belt had already been changed, it was in good shape. i guess it wasnt the problem with the ferrors
[20:33:53] <aa-danimal-shop> but in scope, it looks like it has more error when it accelerates in x+ then levels out a little, and it has error when it decellerates in X-
[20:34:20] <aa-danimal-shop> so maybe i gotta trim it out a little with that pot on the amp
[20:35:07] <aa-danimal-shop> it was weird, i swapped the pc out on the lathe for a different one, and the ferror for that axis was cut in half
[21:43:08] <frallzor> and now something completely different
[21:43:09] <frallzor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WzvmgXIksw
[21:50:25] <GonMD> a dollar says there was catnip somewhere on that babys pjs :p
[21:54:14] <mikegg> anyone out there used a Syil X4?
[21:56:45] <mikegg> or one of it's many flavors
[21:59:43] <frallzor> looks like a sier
[21:59:47] <frallzor> *Sieg
[22:00:20] <mikegg> yeah, I haven't figured that out...
[22:00:42] <mikegg> looks a lot like a sieg, I think Syil just puts their controls on them mayebe ..?
[22:05:00] <mikegg> but it looks like Sieg doesn't make one with as much travel..
[22:17:30] <andypugh> Z travel?
[22:17:56] <andypugh> My Mini-Mill gained travel, the ballscrew is longer than the rack was
[22:18:36] <andypugh> Also Littlemachineshop.com sells larger-travel tables for some of the machines, so it could be that
[22:19:00] <andypugh> Does G0 obey G42?
[22:21:34] <SWPadnos> good question. I would think so
[22:21:46] <SWPadnos> G41/G42 change the location of the controlled point
[22:22:22] <SWPadnos> and it would be reasonable to expect someone to use G0 in addition to G1/G2/G3 while comp is on
[22:22:59] <andypugh> Indeed, and I guess I will see curved grey lines in the preview if it does?
[22:23:27] <SWPadnos> uh. I don't know
[22:23:36] <andypugh> Though currently the preview is churning away strangely, i definitely have decremented the loop counters too.
[22:23:57] <SWPadnos> you can test it easily. make a subroutine that does G1X1, then G0X2
[22:24:14] <SWPadnos> move to 0,0, call the sub, move to 0,0, turn on comp, call the sub
[22:27:43] <andypugh> Ah, I see the problem, too loops called O100 sequentially is bad?
[22:28:22] <SWPadnos> it should be an error I think
[22:28:28] <SWPadnos> if you have two O100 sub lines
[22:28:44] <andypugh> Two O100 While lines
[22:28:59] <SWPadnos> ok, that should also be an error I believe
[22:29:11] <SWPadnos> it may not matter in practice, but then again it might :)
[22:29:25] <andypugh> Seemed to stall the preview indefinitely. (But this is a VM and doesn't have a break key..)
[22:29:32] <frallzor> time foe bed! NN ya all
[22:29:41] <aa-danimal-shop> it's amazing how fast sodium hydroxide disolves aluminum. It took about .025" off the thickness of a .125"x6"x12" piece in about 15 minutes, fairly diluted.
[22:30:03] <aa-danimal-shop> it got HOT too
[22:30:24] <mikegg> really?
[22:30:39] <mikegg> I've been trying to think of a good way to take out traffic cameras
[22:30:45] <mikegg> I wonder if that would do it
[22:30:59] <mikegg> most of them are on aluminum posts I think
[22:31:05] <aa-danimal-shop> haha
[22:31:21] <aa-danimal-shop> well you'd have to sit there and apply it for like a week i bet
[22:31:31] <aa-danimal-shop> they might ask what you're doing
[22:31:37] <mikegg> what about some kind of paste
[22:31:43] <mikegg> or make like a clay damn
[22:31:50] <mikegg> er dam
[22:32:05] <andypugh> Wear a Ho-Viz jacket and carry a clip-board while you do it and nobody will question you.
[22:32:25] <mikegg> yep
[22:32:31] <mikegg> maybe a hard-hat too
[22:32:36] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[22:32:48] <aa-danimal-shop> how bout sandblasting the lens?
[22:33:09] <mikegg> yeah, but some of them are pretty high up
[22:33:11] <aa-danimal-shop> use a handheld maybe c02 powered sandblaster
[22:33:19] <mikegg> I like the way they do it in the UK
[22:33:19] <aa-danimal-shop> put it on a wand
[22:33:34] <aa-danimal-shop> a broom stick with a nozzle on the end
[22:33:34] <mikegg> throw a tire over the thing, fill it with gasoline and enjoy the show
[22:33:41] <aa-danimal-shop> haha nice
[22:34:36] <aa-danimal-shop> i've always wanted to take one out myself
[22:35:13] <aa-danimal-shop> or go by one of the ones they use to bust speeders in Vegas doing about 150mph
[22:35:23] <aa-danimal-shop> with my plate covered
[22:35:47] <aa-danimal-shop> but too crowded there
[22:35:58] <andypugh> I was photographed on the German Autobahn by a speeding camera doing 80mph
[22:36:31] <andypugh> Which was a problem as that bit was a (very random) 80kph limit.
[22:37:27] <mikegg> all about revenue...
[22:37:54] <andypugh> €373 in revenue, in fact !
[22:43:13] <andypugh> Does anyone know if the patched pyvcp spinbutton that lets you directly enter numbers and press enter is intended for, or already in, any of the updates?
[22:44:30] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[22:46:18] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[23:23:36] <pfred1> Anyone want to see just about the simplest stepper motor driver?
[23:26:42] <aa-danimal-shop> sure!
[23:26:50] <pfred1> http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2406/saa1027sstfw.png
[23:27:06] <aa-danimal-shop> mine were pretty simple, i just had to click "add to cart"
[23:27:30] <pfred1> these are specially detuned for the lowest possible performance imaginagle though!
[23:27:50] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[23:27:58] <aa-danimal-shop> no microstepping here!
[23:28:30] <pfred1> full stepping and 500 ma is only if you toss it off a cliff while it is operating it needs the air movement to reach that
[23:29:36] <pfred1> but I may initially run my machine's X axis off of two of these just so I can make decent PCBs for the other drivers
[23:30:11] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[23:30:16] <pfred1> its a royal PIA to point to point wire those up I'm not looking forward to doing two more like that
[23:30:44] <pfred1> but this I could wire up with one arm tied behind my back and i happen to have two of this ICs laying around
[23:31:38] <pfred1> I've been leaning towards a moving gantry with dual leadscrews for a machine design lately
[23:32:21] <pfred1> so even though these drivers and the motors I'll attach to them will be crap with two I'm hoping it'll at least move
[23:33:10] <pfred1> I still need to lash one up on my breadboard hook it to EMC and see what kind of speed I can get out of it though
[23:33:34] <pfred1> I think anything over 6 IPM is a keeper
[23:39:19] <pfred1> the CNC Gods have seen fit to bestow upon me 4 optocouplers out of the holy junkbox too!
[23:40:23] <pfred1> note to self next parts order get some more optos ...
[23:46:02] <andypugh> pfred1: You can get a unipolar half-stepping drive from EMC2 and a buffer. Although it does use 4 P-Port lines.
[23:46:09] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[23:47:00] <pfred1> andypugh yeah I'm not that desperate yet thanks though
[23:47:29] <andypugh> I am not sure how it is any less good than your full-step drive.
[23:47:35] <pfred1> andypugh I do have a dual port parallel card on the way
[23:47:49] <pfred1> andypugh I don't have the parallel ports
[23:48:23] <andypugh> Ah, OK. I just think it is worth pointing out that EMC can, at a pinch, do the pattern generation in software.
[23:49:28] <pfred1> yeah these will just be temporary until I cna make some boards the other drivers are too much of a pain to point to point for me
[23:50:23] <pfred1> then i cam move two of my other drivers to the X axis and work on a better drive for the Y
[23:51:33] <andypugh> I am thinking of making a servo drive to see if it works my little servos any better than the Bodine drive (which I basically don't understand).
[23:52:00] <pfred1> I have one servo motor here from an old printer or something its a beefy little thing
[23:52:19] <andypugh> I suspect that the commutation angle is wrong for my motors, but I am not sure how you work out what the commutation angle is..
[23:52:40] <pfred1> it has an encoder on it and everything
[23:53:13] <pfred1> Litton Clifton precision Model # DHT-2250-V-1
[23:53:51] <pfred1> must have come out of the PDP I scrapped says Digital on it
[23:54:16] <pfred1> it looks about a NEMA 23 triple stack
[23:54:48] <andypugh> Mine are Nema23 too, but fairly short.
[23:55:01] <andypugh> I think that this chip looks interesting though:
[23:55:03] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0415219
[23:55:27] <pfred1> this one's 4 1/2" between the end plates
[23:55:52] <andypugh> All the hall encoder logic, PWM _and_ the power electronics on one chip for $10
[23:56:41] <pfred1> there's something that looks like a small plastic spray can cap on the back of this motor with some wires hanging out that i guess is the encoder
[23:57:55] <pfred1> I doubt I'll ever use the thing closed loop is just too complicated for me to deal with