#emc | Logs for 2010-03-11

[00:00:30] <aa-danimal-shop> thats expensive
[00:00:53] <aa-danimal-shop> you can get a vfd for that price, and i'll work WAY better
[00:01:02] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop if this works good i should hippyware this the other free one I seen out there isn't as generic as this is
[00:06:45] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: you do anything for cooling/bearings when you up'ed your rpms?
[00:08:01] <pfred1> my crappy assed mill sounds like its about to explode at its top speed of 2500 RPM
[00:08:16] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, no...the motor is a 1750rpm motor, and usually the bearings are the same as the ones in 3400rpm motors, so i figured it was ok
[00:08:24] <BlackMoon> lol
[00:08:28] <BlackMoon> I meant spindle bearings :)
[00:08:37] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm not making out the spindle
[00:08:43] <BlackMoon> pfred1: Yea mine gets pertty noisy at 1600rpm
[00:08:45] <aa-danimal-shop> maxing*
[00:08:55] <BlackMoon> oil gets full of foam too
[00:09:05] <BlackMoon> well not foam but little bubles
[00:09:07] <pfred1> mine is belt drive
[00:09:17] <BlackMoon> ih mill, so gearhead
[00:09:29] <pfred1> yeah mines not geared
[00:09:39] <aa-danimal-shop> i have the pulley ratio set at 2000rpm's at 60hz, so it hits 4000rpm at 120hz
[00:10:03] <aa-danimal-shop> the mill would normally do 3800rpm's
[00:10:23] <aa-danimal-shop> but i didnt want to loose that much low end torque so i set the pulles in the middle
[00:10:25] <BlackMoon> gears are nice for quick change, though you still sometimes need to shift the spindle to change gears.. little noisy though
[00:11:03] <BlackMoon> I don't think the gears where spaced very well :)
[00:11:21] <pfred1> I'm so slow to figure out whar sleed I need ot be at that the act of changing isn't a big factor for me
[00:11:41] <BlackMoon> setup is allways 9/10ths of the work anyway
[00:12:18] <pfred1> though in some of my cutter boxes i just wrote the speeds for bits down in felt tip in them
[00:12:28] <pfred1> least for 100 sfpm
[00:13:24] <pfred1> I keep a notebook of jobs but flipping through that can take a lot of time
[00:14:07] <BlackMoon> thats kinda cool
[00:14:14] <BlackMoon> with 100sfm its easy to scale that as needed too
[00:14:27] <pfred1> yup just double for 200 sfpm etc
[00:14:40] <pfred1> but usually i need 100
[00:14:43] <BlackMoon> iv considered printing a chart somewhere
[00:14:49] <pfred1> oh i got those too
[00:14:53] <BlackMoon> I don't make very good use of my shop walls
[00:15:08] <BlackMoon> need to buy some pegboard or something
[00:15:12] <pfred1> but felt tip penning in the speeds has been the handiest
[00:15:51] <Valen> we have a ~30cm board running around under the top shelf of our shop (all the walls) and we use it as a whiteboard
[00:16:00] <BlackMoon> cool
[00:16:01] <Valen> write feeds and speeds on there
[00:16:25] <Valen> but we have gotten pretty handy at looking the tool up and doing the calculation these days
[00:16:38] <pfred1> Valen I printed out a decimal fraction metric chart and taped a magnet to it its one of the handiest shop aids I've made
[00:16:43] <Valen> check out gwizard
[00:17:03] <pfred1> Valen because when i ned it I can grab it then stick it lots of places
[00:17:03] <Valen> heh that would be handy
[00:17:07] <BlackMoon> yea iv got a chart like that
[00:17:17] <pfred1> Valen yeah its like magic
[00:17:36] <BlackMoon> and a tap chart for 50/75% threads, that gives decimal inch and number drill letter for each
[00:17:39] <Valen> 1.118654687 inches isn't that handy
[00:17:40] <pfred1> usually I leave it stuck to the side of this one roller box
[00:17:46] <BlackMoon> Sometimes its easyer to grab a drill with my caliper :)
[00:18:00] <BlackMoon> especialy if I don't feel like opening my 115bit set
[00:18:27] <BlackMoon> 'lets see J or M drill wtf oh its 0.342 i'll just grab.. this one, 3.345, close enough'
[00:18:31] <BlackMoon> err
[00:18:33] <pfred1> Valen I printed out a tap chart and just leave it in one tap tool box I don't care if it gets greasy etc figure when it gets bad I'll just print another its held up good so far
[00:18:40] <BlackMoon> (numbers random but you get the idea)
[00:19:22] <pfred1> yeah my conversion chart has all the letter number fractions etc on it
[00:19:32] <pfred1> I should post it up
[00:22:27] <pfred1> I wonder where i can upload an html file to?
[00:22:39] <Valen> post it in the wiki?
[00:22:48] <Valen> or I'll host it
[00:23:09] <pfred1> Valen yeah but I have to get it to you
[00:23:45] <Valen> dcc should work
[00:23:56] <pfred1> tell my irc client that ;)
[00:24:29] <pfred1> my router is screwy it doesn't allow DCC I haven't figured it out yet
[00:25:02] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: you around?
[00:25:13] <Valen> https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?continue=http://knol.google.com/k/%23createknol&passive=true&service=knol&hl=en perhaps?
[00:26:52] <BlackMoon> pfred1: you gotta setup some port forwards on i
[00:26:53] <BlackMoon> it
[00:27:08] <pfred1> BlackMoon I bet
[00:27:20] <pfred1> damn google didn't like my choice of passwords
[00:27:24] <BlackMoon> http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=irc+router+dcc&meta=&aq=f&oq=irc+router+dcc&fp=4e56a98e25e5ab48
[00:27:27] <pfred1> * pfred1 used "password"
[00:28:01] <Valen> uou shouldn't need port forwards for outbound dcc
[00:28:15] <pfred1> Valen believe me I've tried
[00:28:40] <Valen> pastebin?
[00:29:16] <pfred1> Valen http://filebin.ca/dfcpz/drillguide.html
[00:29:20] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, yes
[00:29:27] <aa-danimal-shop> whats up
[00:30:20] <aa-danimal-shop> my ladder pretty hacked? lol
[00:30:38] <JT-Hardinge> I didn't get your email
[00:30:48] <aa-danimal-shop> you didnt??? hmm
[00:30:54] <pfred1> Valen I seen some others online i like mine better
[00:31:16] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/tools/Drill%20Guide%20Chart.html
[00:31:17] <JT-Hardinge> you send it to jt.plasma?
[00:31:22] <aa-danimal-shop> bjtdev@gmail?
[00:31:33] <pfred1> Valen thanks its nice right?
[00:31:39] <JT-Hardinge> ok that is in the beer cave... I'll go down there
[00:31:45] <JT-Hardinge> np
[00:31:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i can send it to the other one
[00:31:59] <aa-danimal-shop> pretty easily
[00:32:00] <JT-Hardinge> just got my turret lock to work
[00:32:03] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[00:32:23] <JT-Hardinge> jt.plasma at the g mail dot com place
[00:32:28] <Danimal-office> ok
[00:32:33] <Danimal-office> that computer just crashed
[00:32:40] <Danimal-office> i think the vid card is bad
[00:32:43] <pfred1> Valen I've found if you want it all on one page you can screenshot it in a browser window and scale it
[00:33:07] <JT-Hardinge> I can get it from downstairs np
[00:33:12] <Danimal-office> ok cool
[00:33:34] <Valen> thought it'd have more fractional sizes in it
[00:33:41] <Valen> like 1/8th etc
[00:33:51] <Valen> oh wait there it is
[00:33:54] <Valen> looks good
[00:34:07] <pfred1> Valen you had me going for a minute
[00:34:26] <Danimal-office> "oh wait there it is" ....thats what she said!
[00:34:48] <pfred1> Valen it does look like i missed a bold tag on the first number
[00:37:04] <pfred1> there I fixed it
[00:41:08] <pfred1> it was one pain in the ass html file to make
[00:42:59] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop wb
[00:43:03] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks
[00:43:07] <aa-danimal-shop> damn crappy pc
[00:43:12] <aa-danimal-shop> video card went bad
[00:43:18] <pfred1> doh!
[00:43:32] <Valen> mill a new one
[00:43:33] <pfred1> I was looking at DVD burners last nite i htink I need to get one here
[00:43:55] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[00:43:56] <pfred1> the DVD drive in this system is shot I think maybe its the controller
[00:44:37] <pfred1> system gets drive info but drive she a no a go
[00:46:10] <pfred1> what this system really needs is RAM but for what it'd cost me to buy some more I could just about get a whole new system
[00:46:43] <skunkworks> rambus? ;)
[00:46:51] <pfred1> skunkworks you get a gold star
[00:46:56] <skunkworks> heh
[00:47:08] <pfred1> yeah rimmjob bus
[00:47:13] <skunkworks> *seemed like a good idea at the time......
[00:47:34] <pfred1> skunkworks hey I got this system at the dumps it works ....
[00:47:51] <pfred1> skunkworks but when i priced out the memory I found out why it was at the dumps!
[00:48:24] <skunkworks> we have some older workstations at work that just have 256mb ram for that very reason'
[00:48:45] <pfred1> oh its insane for 512 MB it'd cost like $150
[00:48:46] <aa-danimal-shop> there
[00:48:56] <pfred1> used
[00:49:51] <pfred1> I figure maybe I'll just fall into another stick someday ripping it out of a nother jumker PC
[00:55:23] <BlackMoon> yea if it doesnt use DDR your kinda screwed
[00:55:34] <BlackMoon> if it does use DDR its like, pennys a gig
[00:55:52] <pfred1> BlackMoon thats why I'm living with what I have
[00:56:22] <pfred1> system wouldn't be too bad with another 512 MB in it
[00:57:55] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon rocks 6gigs of DDR3
[00:58:38] <BlackMoon> So much memory my OS prefetchs large sections of my HD into memory.
[00:59:44] <pfred1> hey i have 22 MB free RAm
[01:00:18] <DaViruz> empty ram is wasted ram
[01:00:31] <pfred1> DaViruz yeah i only running like 2 apps now :)
[01:03:52] <BlackMoon> I have 126megs free ram
[01:04:24] <BlackMoon> and 3700megs 'available' (ie, used as cache but able to be instantly released)
[01:10:31] <humbert> it is posible to use the emc2 to a homemade edm sinker?
[01:10:51] <pfred1> humbert I htink I have heard of it being done
[01:11:25] <tom3p> theres been some work using edm with emc2, google emc2 adaptive feedrate
[01:11:42] <tom3p> a wedm used it
[01:12:19] <humbert> whre can i get information about
[01:12:25] <pfred1> and I thought i had emf noise issues to contend with using stepper motors!
[01:15:34] <tom3p> gotta dig for it, the user was 'mdynac'
[01:16:56] <aa-danimal-shop> oooh the lathe stops fast with the resistor
[01:19:43] <aa-danimal-shop> anyone know anything about setting up vfd's?
[01:20:01] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm trying to set the dc injection braking
[01:20:09] <aa-danimal-shop> manual is vague
[01:20:52] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop googled it?
[01:22:58] <cradek> I think with a resistor you don't need DC injection?
[01:26:16] <aa-danimal-shop> no?
[01:26:18] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm
[01:26:51] <BlackMoon> I thought DC injection did help slow it a little faster at like really low rpms, but I could be wrong.
[01:27:58] <cradek> you could be right...
[01:29:41] <aa-danimal-shop> it does seem to help
[01:30:05] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, i got the resistor mounted in the lathe
[01:30:17] <aa-danimal-shop> fits perfect in the base of the machine
[01:31:30] <skunkworks> last time I played with a vfd - dc injection helped.. but resistor was a lot better.
[01:32:06] <BlackMoon> yea but I think you can use both
[01:32:21] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm using both
[01:32:24] <pfred1> I saw a webpage where someone made a brake for a grinder and they used a transformer winding somehow
[01:32:37] <aa-danimal-shop> seems like it slows down fast till a certain point then it kinda coasts
[01:32:39] <BlackMoon> I vaugely recall reading about a resistor/DC injection switchover point on the VFD manual I read
[01:33:48] <aa-danimal-shop> hmmm setting the decel time higher actually helped
[01:35:40] <aa-danimal-shop> what about regenative braking
[01:36:00] <aa-danimal-shop> there's a parameter for regenerative brake duty ratio
[01:41:13] <aa-danimal-shop> woops, the chuck came loose
[01:41:20] <aa-danimal-shop> stopping a little too fast i guess
[01:41:25] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:41:47] <BlackMoon> hahaha
[01:41:49] <BlackMoon> fail.
[01:41:52] <skunkworks> heh - that is working...
[01:42:02] <BlackMoon> D4-1 chuck FTW!
[01:42:25] <aa-danimal-shop> buy me a new spindle!
[01:43:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm gunna go steal JT-Hardinge's spindle
[01:50:58] <aa-danimal-shop> well i think i got it set pretty good
[01:51:04] <aa-danimal-shop> decel is 2 seconds
[01:51:25] <aa-danimal-shop> not bad considering it's got a 6" chuck and a 8" faceplate on it
[01:51:52] <aa-danimal-shop> thats from 3000rpm's
[01:54:19] <Valen> hardcore
[01:55:18] <Valen> something would be getting pretty glowy
[01:55:27] <Valen> seen those friction welding things?
[01:58:12] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:58:18] <aa-danimal-shop> doesnt get too hot
[01:58:29] <aa-danimal-shop> the resistor doesnt at least
[01:58:50] <toastydeath> does anyone know how much kinkos charges for a 1000-page print
[01:58:53] <toastydeath> single item
[01:59:56] <aa-danimal-shop> damn, publishing a novel?
[02:01:35] <Valen> list of my sexual partners?
[02:02:11] <aa-danimal-shop> Valen, who's bruce?
[02:02:33] <atmega> do individual pins on p-ports die often?
[02:02:40] <Valen> well bruce was there but we never crossed swords so its ok
[02:02:54] <Valen> atmega depends how badly you abuse them
[02:03:16] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[02:03:21] <atmega> afaik, there has been no abuse.
[02:03:35] <atmega> but, I really meant a single one dying vs. all
[02:04:58] <aa-danimal-shop> i wonder how bad it would be for my washing machine to clean my shop rags in it
[02:07:00] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop what?
[02:07:15] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop go to a salvation army and get a bag of rags off them
[02:08:19] <pfred1> atmega sounds like you could have used my unpatented port protector!
[02:08:40] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont like being wasteful
[02:09:00] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop using up a rag and tossing it out isn't being wasteful
[02:09:16] <aa-danimal-shop> it is if it can be cleaned!
[02:09:52] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I rotate my rags as they get dirtier i use them for progressively nastier tasks until they're just layers of grease
[02:10:12] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i'm at that point lol
[02:10:23] <Valen> take em to a laundry? ;->
[02:10:37] <aa-danimal-shop> na, dont wanna mess up someone else's machine
[02:10:42] <pfred1> hell if i want more rags i can always go look in my closet
[02:11:01] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i went through the closet already. thats why i had to buy real rags
[02:11:22] <pfred1> I was going out ot eat the other day and had to reject a lot that it was offering me as being too ratty to go out in
[02:11:30] <tom3p> get an old washing machine, you seem to have good luck getting used equip. the grease & chips would mess up your regular machine,. and line dry them, the most expensive home aid is elec dryer
[02:12:28] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I'm sure the salvation army gets clothes even they can't sell
[02:12:56] <tom3p> but get LOTS of rags, a quarter or half load is wasteful
[02:13:41] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, i'm out of room. i couldnt fit another machine in here if i tried
[02:13:44] <pfred1> the thought of washing rags is just anathema to me is all
[02:15:50] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop when i get my CNC machine up and running I am thinking about suspending it by a pulley system from the ceiling and landing it on my tablesaw outfeed table when I want to use it
[02:16:35] <tom3p> beam me down scotty
[02:16:46] <aa-danimal-shop> my computer desk is like that kinda
[02:16:47] <Valen> probably cost more in detergent than rags
[02:17:12] <aa-danimal-shop> you must have a small cnc machine
[02:17:13] <pfred1> my whole wardrobe is rags
[02:17:29] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop none yet but it won't be big when I make it
[02:17:36] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop 12x24
[02:17:40] <aa-danimal-shop> if i tried suspending any of my machines from the rafters, it'd take my roof down
[02:17:49] <jackc> haha
[02:18:44] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, youre in california, put the machine outside
[02:19:18] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop yeah and make sure you get a nice avacado colored machine too the neighbors will enjoy that so much more!
[02:19:40] <aa-danimal-shop> lol my wood working equipment is outside
[02:19:47] <Valen> paint it black with blood red trim
[02:19:51] <jackc> good choice
[02:19:58] <aa-danimal-shop> tablesaw, radial arm saw, etc
[02:20:06] <aa-danimal-shop> even my 20 ton press is outside
[02:20:20] <pfred1> Valen nothing says class quite like avacado colored home appliances on the front lawn to me
[02:20:28] <Valen> I always thought that a 20 ton press weighed 20 tonnes
[02:20:28] <jackc> quite
[02:20:59] <Valen> was a while ago really
[02:21:11] <pfred1> I can't talk because i have a meth lab in my backyard :)
[02:21:20] <tom3p> i doubt anyone will notice thge wash machine amongst the other stuff
[02:21:56] <pfred1> let me find a pic of my meth lab and post it
[02:22:48] <pfred1> http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9830/p1010018yr.jpg
[02:22:57] <pfred1> bear in mind i can't even see that from my house
[02:23:05] <jackc> that looks hot
[02:23:28] <Valen> lol
[02:23:28] <pfred1> jackc yes that is my own oersonal eyesore
[02:23:56] <tom3p> instructables ... "Another way to do laundry is to put the pail (tightly covered!) into the back of your car and then drive around. The bumps and jiggles clean .."
[02:24:03] <pfred1> Valen and I bet you thought I was joking when I said i had a meth lab in my back yard?
[02:24:12] <Valen> lol
[02:24:30] <pfred1> Valen I even added onto it
[02:25:58] <pfred1> Valen when I moved in I found some rather odd labrotory glassware around the property so I think the former owners were doing a little bit of home cooking here
[02:26:18] <pfred1> Valen and there are some chemical barrel stands in my woods too
[02:26:20] <Valen> could be interesting if the cops ever visit
[02:26:35] <aa-danimal-shop> haha tweaker!
[02:26:54] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll tip them off!
[02:26:59] <pfred1> and for years the strangest people would stop by
[02:27:15] <Valen> lol
[02:27:22] <Valen> sell them vitamin powder?
[02:27:30] <pfred1> so all of this leads me to believe the former owners are now in government supplied housing with bars on the windows
[02:28:04] <pfred1> that and I used to get all kinds of mail for all sorts of people at this address
[02:28:38] <Valen> valued customer from phamacutical and labware suppliers huh
[02:29:21] <pfred1> I honestly believe my trailer is an ex-meth lab I mean i seen a documentary on TV once and the stuff they showed looked identical to me
[02:30:16] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[02:30:42] <pfred1> let me find an interior shot
[02:32:18] <pfred1> place is seriously spooky: http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2276/p2200012e.jpg
[02:33:26] <skunkworks> creepy
[02:33:34] <pfred1> skunkworks no doubt
[02:33:43] <pfred1> skunkworks pictures just don't do it justice
[02:34:59] <clytle374> looks clandestine lab to me
[02:35:36] <pfred1> this is my back yard: http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8292/p2200017.jpg
[02:36:01] <pfred1> you could probably walk in that direction for 5 miles and not come across much
[02:36:32] <pfred1> I guess after about 2 there's a road
[02:37:07] <pfred1> but there ain't nothing on that road where you'd come out
[02:37:39] <clytle374> Sounds like my neck of the woods, except for 5+ miles to the road.
[02:38:13] <pfred1> clytle374 you'd hit the road sooner than 5 miles but there is nothing on the other side of the road
[02:39:35] <clytle374> Sounds like home sweet home.
[02:40:06] <pfred1> clytle374 yeah i love it I came from suburbs by NYC and that life got to me
[02:41:18] <clytle374> I've been there too. I've been to the NYC area for work, get claustrophobic.
[02:41:35] <pfred1> its so noisey
[02:41:37] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, just for the biker in you http://www.homelessdave.com/hdwashingman.htm
[02:42:20] <pfred1> tom3p don't let ed begley see that!
[02:42:23] <clytle374> Moonshine is still the lab of choice in these parts.
[02:43:26] <pfred1> I was going to Alabama and i took this back way someone told me to take and along the way I swear I saw a billboard advertising moonshine and on it the sign said packaged the old fashioned way and there was a picture of a mason jar
[02:43:45] <pfred1> all i could think was isn't moonshile illegal?
[02:44:21] <pfred1> clytle374 I hear up in the hills they're taking to growing pot a lot now a days
[02:44:23] <tom3p> i got 'livin like ed' i liked readin it but dont do everything he does
[02:45:05] <pfred1> tom3p the junk he does seems almost wasteful to me in a way
[02:45:13] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, , nice!
[02:45:16] <pfred1> laughable at least
[02:45:39] <clytle374> pfred1, Moonshine: Federally yes, locally here no. And many here don't believe in federal anyway, on of the census works was run off at gun point before getting to our house. He was scared bad.
[02:46:14] <pfred1> clytle374 well thats just plain ignorant census means federal dollars
[02:46:31] <clytle374> dad had a pistol holstered, didn't help the guys nerves any.
[02:46:39] <pfred1> clytle374 either you get it ir some city slickers that don't deserve it gets it
[02:47:09] <clytle374> I'm aware.
[02:47:19] <pfred1> and they'll take it!
[02:48:22] <clytle374> Many here just want left alone, and don't take well to being told they must answer these questions
[02:48:50] <pfred1> census is actually in the constitution
[02:49:08] <clytle374> enumeration.
[02:49:30] <pfred1> it is a cornerstone of what makes america america
[02:49:43] <pfred1> we got to know where all of our people are!
[02:49:57] <clytle374> hahaha, they need the numbers. But the long form is BS
[02:50:15] <pfred1> I heard its like 10 questions
[02:50:41] <clytle374> that' the short form.
[02:52:23] <clytle374> We wrote the number of people living in the house and mailed it.
[02:59:11] <clytle374> So for a enumeration why do you need to know if I own my home? Also if the records are confidential, you sure don't need a name.
[03:00:04] <pfred1> land ownership information is important to buildingdemographics of a region
[03:01:53] <aa-danimal-shop> the census guy got a little too personal for my liking. i scared him off with the dogs when he wouldnt leave me alone
[03:03:09] <aa-danimal-shop> i told him i'm busy, and i'm opening the door to go to my car. the dogs are likely to follow so i suggest leaving before i open the door
[03:03:37] <pfred1> I lke dogs
[03:03:54] <aa-danimal-shop> i told him how many people live in the house, and that i owned it. He didnt need to know the color of my curtains
[03:04:21] <clytle374> We were nice to ours, but he wanted us to tell him about who own that cabin ect ect, we told him that was his problem.
[03:04:32] <aa-danimal-shop> so do i, but my big dog walks around with a pretty serious look on his face all the time, plus he looks like a pit. most people are scared shitless of him
[03:04:53] <aa-danimal-shop> he's harmless though, unless you try climbing my fence
[03:05:27] <pfred1> I was doing some work in a body shop once in a rough neighborhood and they had a few dobermans man them dogs were legendary
[03:05:33] <clytle374> Our guy thought only bulls have horns, we left his misconceptions alone;)
[03:05:46] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:06:22] <clytle374> More fun when they think it's a killer, when its a teddy bear
[03:06:25] <pfred1> one of them dogs jumped off a second story roof into the street got run over by a car and kept on chasing a guy!
[03:06:40] <pfred1> but they liked me
[03:06:44] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:06:47] <clytle374> serious dogs
[03:06:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i love dobbies
[03:07:00] <aa-danimal-shop> such cool dogs
[03:07:11] <pfred1> I prefer rotties but dobermans are OK
[03:07:18] <aa-danimal-shop> i'd get one if i didnt have 2 already
[03:07:43] <pfred1> I did meet a dog once that did give me some pause though
[03:07:49] <aa-danimal-shop> rotties are cool too, but i prefer a leaner dog for hiking and whatnot
[03:07:52] <pfred1> it was a doberman great dane cross
[03:07:57] <aa-danimal-shop> damn
[03:08:03] <pfred1> imagine a doberman the size of a great dane
[03:08:14] <pfred1> yeah it was a hound from hell
[03:08:18] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:08:37] <pfred1> I donno what that breeder was thinking
[03:08:59] <pfred1> but that was the most impressive dog I ever saw
[03:09:22] <pfred1> it came charging up at me and i just stood there and its owner called it off
[03:13:37] <aa-danimal-shop> my garage is super smoked out right now
[03:13:50] <aa-danimal-shop> and not in the fun way
[03:14:16] <aa-danimal-shop> running some decent sized parts on the lathe and the cutting oil is smoking up
[03:14:47] <aa-danimal-shop> but it's still better than doing them manually
[03:15:08] <clytle374> Maybe you should try some Indonesian cutting oil.
[03:15:28] <clytle374> Maybe that's not cutting type oil
[03:18:25] <BlackMoon> maybe you should invest in an exhaust fan :)]
[03:18:49] <clytle374> Now I'm writing a nasty letter to an ebay seller that doesn't seem to want to honor the auction for my last servo amp.
[03:21:22] <aa-danimal-shop> it is cutting oil
[03:24:43] <pfred1> clytle374 why bother just get ebay to refund you
[03:24:48] <MattyMatt> 5 discs, all say 'error in 1 files' on the integrity check
[03:25:09] <pfred1> MattyMatt emc2 instal CDs?
[03:25:13] <MattyMatt> yep
[03:25:17] <MattyMatt> 8.04
[03:25:27] <pfred1> MattyMatt did you MD5sum the iso?
[03:25:35] <MattyMatt> yep, md5 is good
[03:25:40] <clytle374> pfred1, I watched for a month, and finally won. I'm going to get these items.
[03:25:51] <pfred1> MattyMatt yeah i had that happen can't remember the distro i just installed it anyways no problems
[03:26:26] <pfred1> MattyMatt it may have well been emc2
[03:27:21] <pfred1> just apt-get update when you get it running
[03:27:38] <MattyMatt> if I install it, I'll bet it'll work around broken files until it updates, especially if it's a non-system package broken. the trouble is, I want to boot liveCD to check there's nothing essential on the hdd before I format it :)
[03:28:00] <pfred1> boot it up what do you have to lose?
[03:28:22] <MattyMatt> possibly several years of code that I'd forgotten about
[03:28:27] <aa-danimal-shop> cnc's are great. 5 minutes of programing and it saved me a few hours
[03:28:34] <pfred1> worse thing that could happen is you have to turn the computer off
[03:28:44] <aa-danimal-shop> plus i can sit on the computer like a lazy ass till it's done
[03:29:20] <MattyMatt> ah they all either hang on booting or go to a login screen, which I'm told is not supposed to happen
[03:30:08] <pfred1> what speed you burning at?
[03:30:27] <MattyMatt> all different speeds
[03:30:41] <pfred1> for a boot CD I'd go with 2X
[03:30:47] <clytle374> pfred1, besides I'm on a tiny budget.
[03:31:12] <MattyMatt> lowest I can do is 4x, it's a dvd burner
[03:31:29] <MattyMatt> 1x dvd = 5.5x cd
[03:32:01] <pfred1> clytle374 tiny budget for what?
[03:32:09] <clytle374> parts.
[03:32:22] <pfred1> clytle374 what are the parts for?
[03:32:46] <MattyMatt> maybe I should try the combo drive on my thinkpad, but I don't really want to install nero on that
[03:32:50] <clytle374> my mini mill. a demo modle.
[03:33:06] <clytle374> To prove I can do it for the boss man
[03:33:19] <pfred1> clytle374 I'm trying to keep costs down myself but am finding it takes an awful lot of time to do so
[03:33:34] <clytle374> I've got a lot more time than money
[03:33:37] <pfred1> clytle374 like it took me a long time to make my motor driver
[03:33:42] <MattyMatt> I'll pull the hdd, and check it from this machine. yeah plan
[03:33:56] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:34:07] <pfred1> clytle374 now it is taking me a long time to make a parallel port buffer
[03:34:52] <clytle374> pfred1, I've got under $200 in my servos and amps. I bought the Mesa cards and computer because it had to be easy to replicate.
[03:35:02] <pfred1> clytle374 something tells me it'll take me a long tome to make the actual machine too
[03:35:43] <clytle374> I've got a mini mill. that will at least prove that I can retro something larger.
[03:35:43] <pfred1> clytle374 but I'm doing it all as something to do because i enjoy it
[03:36:18] <pfred1> clytle374 I have a mini mill too but I didn't feel I could build hardware powerful enough to drive it
[03:36:19] <clytle374> I do too, just getting annoyed with people trying to screw me
[03:37:12] <pfred1> clytle374 tht and retrofitting it with ballscrews would cost a fair amount
[03:37:22] <clytle374> I've got a small Mazak slant lathe retro lined up, but I have to prove it first.
[03:37:43] <clytle374> $23 of nuts $10 per foot for screws.
[03:37:48] <clytle374> for nuts
[03:39:28] <clytle374> Lets just say I'm going for broke, work is way slow.
[03:39:30] <pfred1> well there were a lot of reasons i didn't try to do my mill mainly because it can't do what I want to for what I plan on CNCing
[03:40:36] <clytle374> The mini mill won't do much, that is for sure
[03:40:38] <MattyMatt> wouldn't bigger motors be better value than ballscrews? if the only drawback is friction
[03:40:56] <pfred1> MattyMatt not really no
[03:41:14] <toastydeath> most homebuilt machines suffer rigidity problems way, way before they stall an axis
[03:41:30] <pfred1> ball screw you can get faster rapids and the leads in the machne have a lot of backlash
[03:41:31] <MattyMatt> hmm yeah, I've seen the prices of big precision motors. scary
[03:42:33] <pfred1> clytle374 I do a lot now wiht my mini mill manually but not the sorts of thngs I'd like to CNC
[03:42:49] <MattyMatt> I don't understand why a $50 nema23 is $200 in nema 34. there aren't any precious minerals in it
[03:43:12] <clytle374> I'm not a manual machinist, I would at least need a dro.
[03:43:20] <pfred1> MattyMatt scarcitity
[03:43:29] <toastydeath> manual milling is really assisted by dro's
[03:43:36] <toastydeath> counting cranks is a pain in the balls
[03:43:42] <toastydeath> *dros
[03:43:54] <pfred1> toastydeath I mark work and set stops
[03:44:07] <pfred1> and measure
[03:44:20] <toastydeath> I don't do that for runs of parts
[03:44:30] <clytle374> you mean .0625 per turn? Yeah that's just great
[03:44:34] <pfred1> I don't run parts in my garage
[03:44:43] <toastydeath> i know
[03:45:05] <pfred1> but i have in tool and die shop I worked in and we dind't use CNC there either just setup jobs
[03:45:27] <clytle374> My plan is to hopefully get a little extra work, and then hopefully build a bigger machine.
[03:45:39] <clytle374> Or jsut still be broke
[03:45:51] <clytle374> either way, i did something
[03:46:07] <MattyMatt> my hope was to make a machine that could make a better machine :)
[03:46:23] <pfred1> clytle374 I enjoy electronics and Linux so to me this CNC stuff is a good fit
[03:46:28] <MattyMatt> I'll be lucky if I can mill wood as accurately as I can cut by hand
[03:46:53] <clytle374> Been a Liunx user for years, when to school for electronics. Like both
[03:47:33] <pfred1> well building stepper drivers was unlike anything else I'd ever done before in electronics
[03:48:17] <pfred1> I ran into a few real snafus along the way
[03:48:27] <BlackMoon> I love H bridges
[03:48:37] <BlackMoon> one of the few circuits that invalid input = explosion
[03:48:39] <pfred1> BlackMoon can't say as i used any of them
[03:48:58] <BlackMoon> how did you drive a stepper without H bridges??\
[03:49:07] <pfred1> BlackMoon unipolar
[03:49:16] <BlackMoon> oh yea
[03:49:42] <MattyMatt> monolithic chopper chips
[03:49:45] <clytle374> I just found out that I can sue the seller in my state. I have 2 of the 3 ways to establish jurisdiction.
[03:49:58] <pfred1> MattyMatt not exactly
[03:50:29] <aa-danimal-shop> am i the only one in this channel that didnt know crap about linux or electronics before emc'ing a machine?
[03:50:32] <BlackMoon> unipolar was the correct awnser :)
[03:50:40] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop maybe
[03:50:45] <clytle374> I was looking at IGBT recently, neat stuff.
[03:50:57] <aa-danimal-shop> (not that i know anything about it now)
[03:51:04] <clytle374> I thought everyone used Linux now.
[03:51:06] <BlackMoon> monolithic chips will be using H bridges internaly (usally, unless driving unipolars)
[03:51:08] <pfred1> clytle374 I think thats what i have in my stepper driver
[03:51:38] <aa-danimal-shop> i never even thought about linux till i built my machine last summer
[03:51:48] <pfred1> BlackMoon nah there's just two fets
[03:51:52] <clytle374> A major jump in technology, bigger than when mosfets came out.
[03:52:06] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop linux is fscking amazing ain't it?
[03:52:34] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop it never ceases to impress me
[03:52:59] <MattyMatt> This is the first linux workstation I've kept. windows was better for that until the last couple of years
[03:53:20] <pfred1> I've run Linux 24/7 since 1996
[03:54:06] <pfred1> windows just annoys me
[03:54:12] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, bicycles, linux and electronics and motors and brakes = cycling dynamo , or cycling trainer dynamic load
[03:54:14] <aa-danimal-shop> i like linux, but i cant use it on anything but the machines
[03:54:34] <aa-danimal-shop> lol tom3p, good idea
[03:54:38] <tom3p> you've aleady messed with most of it
[03:55:06] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[03:55:16] <tom3p> add linux multimedia and you got vr road trip
[03:55:18] <MattyMatt> I've been looking at a nice wooden dynamo & windmill
[03:55:21] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop ther eare some application areas linux is still weak in compared to commercial platforms but it'll get there someday everywhere but games
[03:55:24] <aa-danimal-shop> oh man i get all kinds of ideas now that i know ladder
[03:55:59] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i use solidworks and mastercam.... cant really use linux for that
[03:56:07] <BlackMoon> snakes and ladder logic?
[03:56:10] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop like i tried the open source alternatives to the schematic capture stuff i use and it was a waste of time
[03:56:15] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:56:37] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I didn't find either particularly usable
[03:56:37] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i dont even know what that is
[03:56:49] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop the stuff i design my circuits in
[03:56:51] <aa-danimal-shop> solidworks and mastercam?
[03:56:59] <MattyMatt> aa-danimal-shop: it's worth trying those with Wine. that's pretty effective these days
[03:57:11] <aa-danimal-shop> wine?
[03:57:19] <pfred1> MattyMatt do you need a windows partition for wine to work?
[03:57:26] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop windows emulator
[03:57:34] <MattyMatt> wine = linux's wrapper for win exe
[03:57:49] <Danimal-office> hmm
[03:57:59] <Danimal-office> would it work with netflix?
[03:58:13] <MattyMatt> there's a list of tested apps at wine.org
[03:58:16] <Danimal-office> the watch instantly doesnt work without silverlight
[03:58:17] <pfred1> Danimal-office what does netflix give you?
[03:58:33] <Danimal-office> herpes
[03:59:04] <pfred1> for watching multimedia i use mplayer if mplayer can't play it it can't be played
[03:59:05] <Danimal-office> but besides that, it only works with internet explorer
[03:59:24] <Danimal-office> it needs some silverlight plugin
[03:59:29] <MattyMatt> blender is the only CAM I can afford
[03:59:52] <Danimal-office> i used mastercam and solidworks at work, hard to go backwards
[03:59:54] <MattyMatt> gotta write some scripts
[03:59:55] <pfred1> MattyMatt heh i ran blender once years ago I was able to make a sphere in the dark with it
[04:00:06] <pfred1> MattyMatt and that was hard to do!
[04:00:46] <MattyMatt> I'm OK with blender now. I can model, animate, and do the game engine
[04:01:28] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop so you need CAM or CAD?
[04:02:04] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop 57 search results for: CAD http://freshmeat.net/search?q=CAD&submit=Search
[04:02:23] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop 23 search results for: CAM http://freshmeat.net/search?q=CAM&submit=Search
[04:03:22] <MattyMatt> CAD is the easy bit, it's all the extra stuff like designing constraints in mecanisms, and producing toolpaths that make CAM
[04:03:22] <Danimal-office> i need both
[04:03:42] <MattyMatt> is solidworks the french one?
[04:03:59] <Danimal-office> yep
[04:04:04] <pfred1> I been hearing a lot about this stuff lately http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/
[04:04:19] <Danimal-office> i already have mastercam and solidworks
[04:04:42] <pfred1> Danimal-office what'd they cost you?
[04:06:35] <MattyMatt> e7000 is what I read on the SW site
[04:07:00] <MattyMatt> but it does look good
[04:07:07] <pfred1> MattyMatt yes a tad more than I'm willing to shell out for a casual hobby of mine
[04:07:28] <MattyMatt> I think you can run it on 3 machines for 7kE
[04:07:36] <Danimal-office> you can get it for about 4k
[04:07:45] <Danimal-office> i have a friend that works for them
[04:07:51] <Danimal-office> so i can get it cheaper
[04:07:53] <Danimal-office> :)
[04:08:02] <pfred1> yes I'm sure much cheaper
[04:08:14] <MattyMatt> subcontracted QA operative :)
[04:08:21] <Danimal-office> the version i had at work was about 12k
[04:08:40] <pfred1> thats insane to shell out for software
[04:08:49] <Danimal-office> true, but try doing it otherwise
[04:09:00] <MattyMatt> it's very impressive
[04:09:00] <Danimal-office> complex parts i mean
[04:09:16] <Danimal-office> you'll spend MUCH more in time
[04:09:41] <MattyMatt> it could save far more than one man-year per year in any company that designs mechanisms
[04:09:51] <Danimal-office> yea
[04:10:07] <Danimal-office> i had it for designing tooling
[04:10:39] <pfred1> MattyMatt must be one of the reasons I do not find myself in the situation of being in a company designing mechanisms
[04:11:11] <MattyMatt> I do. I made my machine without a plan :)
[04:11:40] <pfred1> MattyMatt whenever i make something and don't plan it out it shows
[04:12:02] <MattyMatt> actually I did plan it in blender, but I didn't stick to it
[04:13:01] <MattyMatt> specifications cost cash money
[04:13:54] <pfred1> MattyMatt I don't think that is how i plan
[04:14:10] <pfred1> like i drew this all out before i made it: http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2234/fenceside.jpg
[04:14:26] <pfred1> it looks simple enough but things had to be specific sizes
[04:14:49] <Danimal-office> holy crappers i just got a huge order
[04:15:03] <cradek> yay!
[04:15:21] <Danimal-office> yea, a month's worth of $ :)
[04:15:31] <MattyMatt> w00t!
[04:16:18] <MattyMatt> now you can afford fresh cutting oil
[04:16:34] <Danimal-office> the cutting oil is brand new, i just put it in today!
[04:16:39] <Danimal-office> sheesh
[04:16:41] <tom3p> try mGcodeGenerator for Blender, yoyo's got emc gcode outpout http://yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/?&tag=mGcodeGenerator&id=1168&subPage=detale
[04:17:31] <tom3p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl3om2mG5gA
[04:17:40] <Danimal-office> the good part about that order is i already did about 20 pieces for them, and i got the process down pretty good
[04:17:58] <tom3p> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=GcodeGenerator
[04:18:53] <pfred1> Danimal-office parts is parts pieces is pieces
[04:18:55] <MattyMatt> yeah I've looked at that, but not tried it yet. I'll get familiar with gcode first
[04:18:57] <Danimal-office> the bad news is it's made out of pvc, and i'll litterally have several garbage pails full of chips
[04:19:29] <pfred1> Danimal-office why don't they just have it molded?
[04:19:48] <MattyMatt> blender is just about to undergo a major revision. 2.5 is very different GUI and scripts
[04:20:39] <aa-danimal-shop> dont know, dont care! it's good work for me
[04:20:44] <tom3p> oh no, dont chg the gui, or chg it it earth style, not new venusian vs old venusian
[04:21:15] <MattyMatt> it's new venusian. you can still tell it's blender
[04:21:18] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, i got a video for you, i'm going to upload it now
[04:21:23] <pfred1> tom3p I hope blender changed because last tiem I tried it I couldn't make anything
[04:21:30] <tom3p> ugh sounds like re-learn
[04:21:35] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: just make a mold melt the chips and be done with it =)
[04:22:55] <tom3p> 'you just need 3 hands, one on the mouse, one on the keyboard, and the other holding the damn manual '
[04:23:01] <MattyMatt> every minor revision broke all my scripts every time. the python API has been the most fluid part
[04:23:46] <MattyMatt> 2.5 has significant GUI changes. scripts integrate properly. you can make new control panels etc
[04:24:03] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: nifty
[04:24:17] <MattyMatt> so CAD & CAM functions can be integrated nicely
[04:24:38] <pfred1> I liked povray
[04:25:08] <MattyMatt> blender can still export to povray, although they like yafray better these days
[04:25:31] <MattyMatt> yafray is integrated as a standard renderer
[04:25:41] <pfred1> I'm just saying for making 3D stuff I could do beter with povray than I ever could with blender
[04:26:14] <pfred1> I always said its my head in a blender when I ran that software
[04:26:44] <pfred1> so I'm all for new gui being as i could never do anything with the old gui
[04:27:23] <MattyMatt> it's better suited to organics than mechanics, or at least it's flexible that way. too flexible compared to a CAD
[04:28:00] <Danimal-office> cradek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb7WvJJkJh0
[04:28:44] <cradek> eek, look at those jaws!
[04:28:47] <MattyMatt> I wouldn't have been able to model an elephant in solidworks :)
[04:28:58] <cradek> what surface speed is that? it looks fast
[04:29:02] <Danimal-office> soft jaws
[04:29:06] <Danimal-office> 250sfm
[04:29:10] <cradek> ah
[04:29:22] <Danimal-office> .05" a pass
[04:29:28] <cradek> nice!
[04:29:35] <Danimal-office> heat treated 4340, 4" diameter
[04:29:48] <Danimal-office> i could take more but the spindle belt slips alot
[04:30:04] <Danimal-office> i need to do something about that
[04:30:32] <pfred1> Danimal-office pulley or belt glazed?
[04:30:43] <Danimal-office> cradek, got the resistor working on the lathe.... works pretty well.
[04:30:52] <cradek> neat
[04:31:02] <cradek> yours has a tapered chuck mount, right?
[04:31:03] <Danimal-office> pfred1, not sure
[04:31:05] <Danimal-office> yes
[04:31:14] <cradek> that's good for braking :-)
[04:31:19] <Danimal-office> it came loose once
[04:31:39] <cradek> I unscrewed my chuck once while cutting in M4
[04:31:50] <Danimal-office> i had to slow down the decel
[04:31:54] <Danimal-office> ouch!
[04:31:56] <cradek> (why does it keep cutting deeper and deeper?)
[04:32:00] <Danimal-office> lol
[04:32:08] <cradek> that was really dumb
[04:32:15] <pfred1> cradek I've had mills slip in collets like that
[04:32:19] <cradek> I should have figured it out sooner...
[04:32:30] <Danimal-office> hidsight is 20/20
[04:32:38] <Danimal-office> hindsight*
[04:32:42] <pfred1> cradek happens when I use routers sometimes too damned annoying
[04:32:43] <cradek> sure is
[04:33:08] <cradek> luckily I've never had anything move in my ER40s
[04:33:17] <Danimal-office> i'm still getting a ferror at higher imp's in x. i'm going to change the belts and the brushes and go from there
[04:33:20] <cradek> seems like R8 machines have that problem more
[04:33:46] <pfred1> R8 isn't a true taper
[04:33:47] <cradek> what's the trace look like if you trigger on ferror?
[04:33:51] <Danimal-office> yea, r8's are horrible for slippage. i use an endmill holder on the bridgeport for heavy cuts
[04:34:29] <Danimal-office> cradek, not sure, good question. it only ferrors in one direction (x positive)
[04:34:40] <cradek> plot! plot!
[04:34:55] <Danimal-office> i did, it looks better in x- than x+
[04:35:22] <pfred1> * pfred1 is lost I must have walked in on this too late to understand the plot ....
[04:35:30] <Danimal-office> not sure what would cause it to do that in one direction only
[04:35:50] <Danimal-office> pfred1, my lathe gets a following error occasionally
[04:36:02] <cradek> motor brushes, tach brushes, broken gib, ...?
[04:36:03] <tom3p> did you null the amp?
[04:36:27] <cradek> or sure, amp tuning
[04:36:32] <Danimal-office> i doubt broken gib, it moves nice by hand
[04:36:39] <Danimal-office> null the amp?
[04:36:40] <cradek> what do you mean looks better/worse
[04:36:57] <Danimal-office> the error is higher for x+
[04:37:00] <cradek> set the analog offset so it doesn't tend to go one way
[04:37:08] <Danimal-office> it jumps kinda high at the beginning of the move
[04:37:30] <Danimal-office> ahh, the little pot on the amp?
[04:37:32] <cradek> then does it even out? it's just the start?
[04:37:40] <cradek> yeah one of the pots will be offset
[04:37:45] <Danimal-office> evens out a little but it's still not great
[04:38:03] <cradek> if you make another one I'd like to see it
[04:38:14] <Danimal-office> ok i'll try
[04:38:19] <cradek> eek, meanwhile, I'm going to bed
[04:38:21] <cradek> goodnight
[04:38:23] <tom3p> before you connect the amp to cnc, you short the velocity command to its refrence. this is telling the amp "sit still", if it doesnt, you need to adjust the amp's offset. NOW the amp is ready to take commands
[04:38:25] <Danimal-office> goodnight!
[04:39:01] <Danimal-office> tom3p, it may creep a little
[04:39:22] <tom3p> if its not nulled, it will be biased +x or -X
[04:39:41] <Danimal-office> but still doesnt explain why it didnt do it at all before and does it out of the blue now
[04:40:08] <pfred1> Danimal-office sunspots
[04:40:16] <Danimal-office> sometimes it does it really bad, like you cant even move it slowly, and other times it does it only at like 100+ipm, or sometimes it doesnt do it at all
[04:40:41] <tom3p> things on the edge fall off ;)
[04:40:44] <Danimal-office> but even when it does it REALLY bad, it still moves fine in x-.
[04:40:46] <pfred1> Danimal-office clean your pot
[04:41:18] <Danimal-office> like it wont do 20ipm in x+, but it can do 200ipm in x-
[04:41:52] <Danimal-office> tom3p, the ferror used to be great on that machine. like .0002" max
[04:41:54] <pfred1> Danimal-office go to radio shack and ask them for a can of TV tuner cleaner
[04:42:38] <Danimal-office> yea
[04:42:40] <tom3p> spray it on your hand, you want the stuff that vanishes, not the crap that leaves oil
[04:42:50] <Danimal-office> ok
[04:43:07] <Danimal-office> i know i did move one of the pots once. not sure if it's the same amp
[04:43:18] <pfred1> aerosol pot cleaner in a can what will they think of next?
[04:43:31] <Danimal-office> lol
[04:43:42] <tom3p> but i'd look into the weirdo feedback... you got resolver to digital thingies?
[04:43:50] <Danimal-office> well i gotta go get some dinner, thanks for the advice
[04:43:55] <pfred1> tom3p supposeldy the goop it leaves behind lubricates the pot
[04:43:55] <tom3p> k
[04:43:56] <Danimal-office> tom3p, yes
[04:44:01] <Danimal-office> the pico ones
[04:44:09] <tom3p> ask Jon
[04:44:20] <Danimal-office> i guess i can swap the x and z and see if it makes a difference
[04:44:23] <pfred1> tom3p but i have had the stuff work wonders for me
[04:44:23] <tom3p> hes good
[04:44:41] <Danimal-office> ok adios, thanks!
[04:45:18] <pfred1> tom3p i was gong to tell him to go to radio shack and ask for some pot cleaner ;)
[04:45:50] <tom3p> pfred1, what works is a good test, i just used the kind i described and had good results ymmv
[04:46:31] <pfred1> well I've had pots that have just worn out due to frictuin too and no amount of cleaning would bring them back
[04:46:45] <pfred1> and bourns are the best
[04:46:53] <tom3p> broken wire on wire wound?
[04:47:13] <pfred1> nah the black whatever it is resistive element
[04:47:21] <tom3p> carbon
[04:47:33] <pfred1> seen the stuff just get all shot up
[04:48:00] <tom3p> yeh the pointer bends/wears and its open, or arcs
[04:48:41] <pfred1> all I'm saying is some pots are too gone to clean and it loks like mechanical wear leads to it which is why pube might not be such a bad thing
[04:48:53] <pfred1> lube not pube!
[04:49:08] <pfred1> spreay some of that there pube lube in there it'll be good as new!
[04:49:57] <tom3p> a little dab'll do ya
[04:50:44] <pfred1> there is nothing quite like a really good pot though in some circuits
[04:51:07] <pfred1> http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
[04:51:14] <tom3p> thats why audio pots are expensive
[04:51:38] <pfred1> oh i have some AB and bourns pots that are superior
[04:52:03] <pfred1> ole allen can crank out some good pots when they want to too
[04:52:29] <tom3p> bookmarked thx
[04:52:39] <pfred1> tom3p classic page
[04:53:49] <pfred1> does look like he's added to it since the lasttime I checked it out
[05:05:00] <pfred1> will it work? http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8203/ppbbsch2.png
[05:06:27] <pfred1> actually i see one thing I screwed up on it now
[05:11:01] <pfred1> this ones better: http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8203/ppbbsch2.png
[05:19:08] <MattyMatt> bleh, I've got bad ram in the emc machine, or the 64MB hole is set wrong because the errors are all around 63.1MB
[05:28:35] <tom3p> pfred1, isolate the gnds, it reads like both 5v gnds are commoned
[05:29:00] <pfred1> tom3p they are I thought about it but figure ground is ground
[05:30:02] <pfred1> tom3p its only for the switches the second power circuit
[05:30:21] <pfred1> though i guess noise could come in on those wires like antennas
[05:31:42] <tom3p> consider... the only thing common to the 2 circuits is light, there is no electrical connection
[05:32:35] <pfred1> tom3p I was very up in the air about powering the second part wiht a different supply at all but figured if i blow out that side I have a lot of 78L05s to replace it with
[05:32:53] <pfred1> must have 30 of the little buggers here
[05:33:19] <pfred1> I have a lot less 7805TVs
[05:34:29] <pfred1> and i have optos on my motor drivers had to put them there they ran like crap without them
[05:34:48] <pfred1> on the step and dir inputs
[05:35:10] <pfred1> I foundthat out when I ran two off the same 555 timer
[05:38:08] <atmega> what's the TV
[05:38:15] <atmega> low dropout?
[05:38:32] <pfred1> I think its clipped tabs
[05:38:42] <pfred1> its a package style
[05:38:57] <pfred1> its a TO-220 variant
[05:39:39] <pfred1> the plastic package has dimples on the side too
[05:40:06] <pfred1> its like a TO-220 that went on a diet sort of
[05:40:53] <atmega> I saw some switching regs made up in 78xx to220 format, looked nifty, if not expensive.
[05:40:55] <pfred1> atmega they were cheap so I bought 10
[05:41:42] <pfred1> but i got a load of 78L05s I guess from where I worked
[05:41:43] <tom3p> some style heat sink snaps on there
[05:42:16] <pfred1> yeah I have a bag of screw on TO-220 heatsinks also work stuff
[05:42:40] <pfred1> you know the black bent things with the 4 fins on each side?
[05:43:29] <atmega> seems like if you need a bigass heat sink for an LM78xx, you might be using the wrong thing.
[05:43:36] <pfred1> on the left http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6498/stepproto1.jpg
[05:44:31] <pfred1> atmega if you want maximum power out of the device you need a lot of heatsink
[05:44:46] <MattyMatt> you can drop 38V to 5V with a 7805. that's all heat that needs to be dissipated
[05:45:13] <MattyMatt> at 1A that's 33W
[05:45:17] <pfred1> MattyMatt yeah I'm only running my stuff off 23V partially for the drop reason
[05:45:33] <pfred1> MattyMatt partially because that's the voltage i have at that kind of amps too
[05:46:11] <atmega> I seem to have fried pin2 on my mobo p-port.
[05:46:29] <pfred1> atmega you needed my port protector!
[05:46:35] <atmega> yep
[05:46:58] <pfred1> atmega http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5089/ppbbbrd2.png
[05:47:05] <atmega> I had an opto board in front originally, but it either didn't work, or my 7805 didn't work so well
[05:47:12] <MattyMatt> disposable ports. got an AT slot? :)
[05:47:30] <atmega> nope, I have lots of isa p-port cards, and no isa slots.
[05:47:39] <pfred1> ISA?
[05:47:49] <MattyMatt> ISA==AT
[05:48:05] <MattyMatt> AT is a trademark of IBM
[05:48:16] <pfred1> they had PCI in ATs too
[05:48:44] <MattyMatt> naah. they tried MDA with the PS/2
[05:48:47] <atmega> I have two microchannel boxes still running at work
[05:48:50] <pfred1> MCA
[05:48:56] <MattyMatt> MDMA
[05:49:04] <pfred1> and vesa logic who cna forget that?
[05:49:33] <MattyMatt> not me. I still have a few cards but no working mobo
[05:49:45] <pfred1> vesa logic sucked
[05:50:02] <atmega> do the diodes on the 7805s really do anything useful?
[05:50:20] <pfred1> atmega protect the IC from when capacitors discharge
[05:50:45] <pfred1> atmega that and i have thousands of them gotta use them up somehow!
[05:51:26] <pfred1> but seriously nat semi recommends them for cap values over 25 uF
[05:51:39] <atmega> so use 10uF :)
[05:51:52] <pfred1> size matters
[05:52:39] <pfred1> you don't need them but they're added protection
[05:52:46] <atmega> do you mill/trace the boards?
[05:53:01] <pfred1> no I'll hand solder this on perfboard
[05:53:17] <pfred1> but it helps to have osmething to look at while I'm doing it
[05:54:33] <pfred1> I've used that PNP bue stuff and ruined 2 toner cartriges in the process
[05:55:06] <atmega> I have a mini perfboard 7805/led/etc stuck on the side of my 24v PS, when it slips, it grounds to the case.
[05:55:19] <pfred1> atmega nice!
[05:56:08] <atmega> need another screw or some tape
[05:56:31] <pfred1> atmega here's the power supply i use with my CNC stuff http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2244/pict0579s.jpg
[05:56:55] <pfred1> and here is it while I'm load testing it http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6414/pict0576h.jpg
[05:57:32] <atmega> what's the input?
[05:57:54] <pfred1> atmega in that tan box is a transformer I liberated from a PDP 11/34
[05:58:13] <pfred1> atmega I serialed the two 13.5 lines it used for its 5 volt rails
[05:58:50] <atmega> never seen/heard of a 34
[05:58:59] <pfred1> atmega wires coming out of it look to be about 12 gauge a PDP 11/34 stood about 7 feet tall
[05:59:22] <pfred1> atmega lets just say it had quite an appetite for 5 volts
[06:00:09] <pfred1> probably like 50 amps of appetite
[06:00:16] <atmega> sadly, I still have 3 pdp 11/73's running also... they use pretty normal PS's though
[06:00:50] <pfred1> turned the one i scrapped into a rolling storage cabinet
[06:00:54] <pfred1> and a lot of parts
[06:00:59] <MattyMatt> ATX psu give 30+A of 5V these days
[06:01:26] <pfred1> MattyMatt yeah that thats all it'll do
[06:01:34] <atmega> I can still get plenty of replacement parts for hte 11/73's, the microchannel boxes are a pain in the ass though
[06:02:14] <pfred1> MattyMatt plus i hear using switching supplies with this CNC addsa more noise to the system
[06:02:31] <MattyMatt> yeah I've heard that too
[06:03:02] <MattyMatt> and it makes sense, when the step freq beats with the switching freq of the psu
[06:03:10] <pfred1> and noise has been a big factor with stepper motors for me
[06:03:32] <atmega> most 'real' positioning stuff I use at work have linear power supplies
[06:04:13] <MattyMatt> you'll still get mains hum, but machinists are probably all deaf at mains freq :)
[06:04:55] <MattyMatt> I could hear VGA freq, which was annoying
[06:05:10] <MattyMatt> modern psu are usually ~100khz
[06:05:11] <pfred1> MattyMatt what are you a dog?
[06:06:21] <pfred1> well I've never made a switching supply I've made a lot of linear ones though
[06:06:37] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking switch mode, with a big tank capacitor, will do me
[06:07:04] <MattyMatt> the one on my LCD screen is 18V 3.16A, but I need that
[06:07:34] <MattyMatt> so I'm using an ATX supply for first tests
[06:07:41] <pfred1> my motors are rated at 2 amps a piece but they don't draw that running
[06:08:09] <pfred1> but that was the number I initially worked with in sizing my power supply
[06:08:25] <MattyMatt> mine are 1A motors, and my driver only has 4 steps so they'll get 3.5/4 A
[06:08:39] <pfred1> full step?
[06:08:51] <MattyMatt> 4 current levels, I mean
[06:09:00] <pfred1> oh yeah I've seen those
[06:09:22] <pfred1> I found to really get my motors to run their best i had to mess with the current setting a lot on my drivers
[06:09:33] <pfred1> like it was pretty touchy
[06:09:51] <pfred1> sure they'd run set higher or lower just not as well
[06:10:01] <MattyMatt> and if the machine stuggles to move, I'll put 3.5/2 through, until the motors melt :)
[06:10:07] <pfred1> I have 15 turn trim pot to set my current
[06:10:27] <pfred1> really like i said my motors are rated at 2 amps but they run best at about 1
[06:10:51] <MattyMatt> did you try various voltages too?
[06:10:51] <pfred1> something I didn't see coming until I messed with it all
[06:11:07] <pfred1> I'm sure with more they may run a bit faster
[06:11:25] <pfred1> but I'm at 23 now and its max this power uspply will put out
[06:12:03] <pfred1> no load I've spun the motors to 2500 RPM and I've had emc2 run them well wiht good power up to 460 RPM
[06:12:24] <pfred1> like they reliably reverse don't stall have torque etc at 460
[06:13:23] <pfred1> sure some people run faster I guess but I think for my porposes I can work with what I'm getting
[06:14:01] <pfred1> 10 tpi acme leads I can get 48 ipm out of my setup
[06:16:33] <MattyMatt> I'm not massively confident that any of my 3 axes will move with my weeny motors
[06:16:47] <MattyMatt> 0.4Nm
[06:17:06] <pfred1> my motors are 124 oz/in I didn't want to get really big motors they're just harder to drive
[06:17:21] <MattyMatt> 60oz-in
[06:17:46] <pfred1> yeah i went low end
[06:17:57] <pfred1> single stack nema 23s
[06:17:58] <MattyMatt> so yours are just about 2x the size of mine
[06:18:18] <MattyMatt> probably the same size as mine, but modern magnets
[06:18:34] <MattyMatt> mine are space age
[06:18:46] <MattyMatt> superior electric
[06:19:29] <pfred1> you can see the motors I'm using in this picture: http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1937/pict0713.jpg
[06:19:37] <MattyMatt> ah well, mine were 10gbp for 4, plus shipping
[06:19:41] <pfred1> MattyMatt I think i have motors like you have too
[06:20:06] <pfred1> MattyMatt wire them up color to color then turn the shaft on one its neat
[06:20:27] <pfred1> the one motor will mirror the other ones motions
[06:21:16] <pfred1> super cheap stepper motor drive!
[06:23:08] <MattyMatt> I'll upgrade to double stack 4A if these do nothing
[06:23:46] <pfred1> 60s work but you have to be careful about the mechanics
[06:23:47] <MattyMatt> they'll outlast the machine probably, but I'm hooked now. if mk1 fails, I'll go straight onto mk2
[06:24:22] <MattyMatt> my mechanics are primitive. M8 thread on 2 axes
[06:25:02] <MattyMatt> and the 3rd is ballscrew but 10mm pitch which doesn't give much gearing help
[06:25:34] <MattyMatt> and all the slides are shelf slides
[06:25:49] <pfred1> I'm going to go skate bearing
[06:26:30] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1638638183.html
[06:26:34] <MattyMatt> I've done that, but it's wrong to use radial bearings for axial thrust
[06:26:58] <MattyMatt> but they are cheap and rel=placable if they do wear out
[06:27:03] <pfred1> MattyMatt you did the skate bearings on angles at an angle?
[06:27:45] <MattyMatt> ah no, I just used them for the leadscrew bearing
[06:27:59] <MattyMatt> the slides are all ballrace shelf slides
[06:28:47] <MattyMatt> which need to be used in sets of at least 3 at angles to stop flex
[06:28:48] <pfred1> MattyMatt http://buildyourcnc.com/step1.aspx
[06:30:13] <pfred1> MattyMatt his setup looks pretty plausible to me
[06:33:09] <MattyMatt> alu angle cost more than the slides I used
[06:34:45] <Jymmm> He's cutting/drilling on his carpeted floor?! *sigh*
[06:35:05] <pfred1> Jymmm heh with the kid screaming in the background its classic
[06:35:13] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[06:35:15] <MattyMatt> until I realised I needed more than one pair per axis, then the cost advantage shrinks
[06:35:22] <numen> re
[06:35:51] <Jymmm> I can't tell, is he tapping with 1/4-20??? It looks larger than that
[06:35:57] <pfred1> MattyMatt roller skate bearings are pretty cheap
[06:36:12] <pfred1> you can buy them in like 30 packs
[06:36:28] <pfred1> say $10 for 30
[06:36:38] <MattyMatt> there were 16 in my pack, presumable that's a full set
[06:37:03] <MattyMatt> for a 2 legged skater
[06:37:23] <pfred1> well I won't be buying competition grade bearings I doubt
[06:37:54] <MattyMatt> you need 36 for a reprap mendel
[06:38:21] <MattyMatt> that's all 608-against-shafts
[06:38:26] <pfred1> I can't say as the reprap project impresses me very much
[06:39:07] <pfred1> their motor drivers look problematic at best
[06:39:23] <MattyMatt> I think it's pretty neat. I'll put an extruder on mine sometime
[06:40:28] <MattyMatt> and extrude-only machine can get away with similar drivers to a printer. no actual work is done
[06:41:11] <MattyMatt> nema 17 or nema 14
[06:41:43] <MattyMatt> 14s are normal, some parts need hacking to mount a 17
[06:43:19] <MattyMatt> belt drive, for speed
[06:43:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: The kid sounds like 2-4yo... I bet he loves to inhale all that MDF dust into his lil lungs
[06:43:42] <pfred1> Jymmm whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
[06:44:11] <MattyMatt> no mdf in MY machine
[06:44:11] <Jymmm> Kill the dumbass, the kid is just a victim.
[06:44:23] <pfred1> MattyMatt why not?
[06:44:36] <MattyMatt> plywood is my only concession. they key parts are oak
[06:44:55] <pfred1> mdf is actually more stable
[06:44:56] <Jymmm> Nothing wrong with MDF... as a sacrificial top
[06:45:57] <MattyMatt> I can use soft fibreboard for that. then I can use thumbtacks for mounting :)
[06:46:16] <MattyMatt> lets mill some cardboard
[06:46:21] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: You dont want to do that
[06:46:38] <MattyMatt> yeah :) I know
[06:50:29] <MattyMatt> my whole top is sacrificial anyway, being plywood
[06:51:03] <MattyMatt> as long as I don't hit the nuts that hold it to the slides
[06:55:18] <MattyMatt> I'll use mdf for a smooth bed for milling pcb, so I can mill it perfectly flat to the XY plane
[06:55:54] <pfred1> I'd think that if milling PCBs made any sense at all it'd be a process done in the industry
[06:57:27] <MattyMatt> darkrooms are scarcer now. I can't walk 100 yds and buy developing trays and safelights anymore
[06:57:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: no plated holes is probably why, but there are specific machines for doing just that.
[06:58:00] <MattyMatt> pcbs started in photography's golden age
[06:58:11] <pfred1> that is why I'm going to make my CNC machine put the resist directly onto the board
[06:58:29] <pfred1> Jymmm seems the industry favors chemical etching to me
[06:58:41] <pfred1> Jymmm though they'll drill them out with CNC
[06:59:11] <MattyMatt> chemical etching is fast and cheap
[06:59:18] <pfred1> so its not like they've never heard of the stuff
[06:59:36] <MattyMatt> once you've got the equipment
[06:59:46] <pfred1> and i think gives better results too
[07:00:39] <pfred1> I know a lot of people mill PCBs but then again a lot of people do all sorts of stuff I tend to avoid
[07:00:47] <MattyMatt> I always had problems with cracks in the resist, so I had to tin everything
[07:01:34] <pfred1> I'd think with PCB milling one has to contend wiht a lot of shorts from copper frays
[07:02:28] <MattyMatt> either way you need to inspect it carefully, unless you have a nicely tuned commercial system
[07:03:09] <MattyMatt> and even then I bet you need to put 1 in 100 under a microscope to keep it tuned
[07:03:59] <MattyMatt> too long in the etchant, and it eats tracks away underneath from the edges
[07:04:31] <pfred1> heh there's tricks to getting a good etch
[07:05:01] <MattyMatt> so age, strength & temp of etchant are all critical, just like developing a photo
[07:05:03] <pfred1> run hot and run air through the tank
[07:05:32] <pfred1> yeah i took temp out of the equation by running a heated tank
[07:05:52] <pfred1> I liked it around 110F
[07:06:10] <pfred1> and air makes a huge difference
[07:06:30] <pfred1> get a board in like 2 minutes or less
[07:07:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: http://www.lpkfusa.com/protomat/h100.htm
[07:07:15] <MattyMatt> I heard ferric chloride is old-fashioned now
[07:07:28] <Jymmm> http://www.lpkfusa.com/protomat/h100-view.htm
[07:07:30] <MattyMatt> illegally dangerous even
[07:08:12] <pfred1> all ferric chloride is is rust
[07:08:20] <pfred1> http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7184/etch1.jpg
[07:08:22] <Jymmm> pfred1: 100K RPM spindle - sounds like a jet engine
[07:08:41] <MattyMatt> it's getting hard to buy any chemicals that aren't 5% nonionic surfactants + coloring
[07:08:48] <pfred1> Jymmm that would help
[07:10:42] <pfred1> next time I etch I'm going to try muratic acid and peroxide
[07:11:27] <MattyMatt> can't even buy peroxide easily now
[07:11:39] <pfred1> MattyMatt yeah?
[07:11:56] <pfred1> MattyMatt they have it at drug stores
[07:12:19] <MattyMatt> not here, the London bombs were concentrated hair bleach. they bought 20 gallons on 3% and boiled it down
[07:13:05] <pfred1> a people that gives up liberty for security deserves neither
[07:13:23] <pfred1> but he guy who said that wasn't british
[07:13:55] <MattyMatt> Europe called me a citizen when UK still called me a subject :)
[07:14:28] <MattyMatt> my new passport says British Citizen, but that's just window dressing
[07:15:19] <pfred1> MattyMatt the police can't do their job so everyone else has to suffer sounds fair to me!
[07:15:42] <MattyMatt> I'll stand for parliment on a platform of A Small Boy's Right To Do Chemistry In Momma's Kitchen
[07:16:25] <pfred1> well when i got the muratic acid they did have ot go into the back room to get it for me
[07:16:37] <pfred1> they said they couldn't keep it out on theshelves anymore
[07:16:49] <pfred1> but i "looked OK"
[07:16:54] <MattyMatt> they moan that chemicals are available, but then moan that there's no chemistry teachers for schools anymore
[07:17:16] <pfred1> I think I'm beginning to see a pattern
[07:17:22] <pfred1> some people just moan a lot
[07:17:23] <MattyMatt> bloody governments, there should be a No Thank You box on the ballot
[07:18:56] <pfred1> well I'm all about chemicals: http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5069/cleanresist1.jpg
[07:20:40] <MattyMatt> you can get that, in small tins labelled as cellulose thinner
[07:21:04] <pfred1> heck we can buy it in 55 gallon drums here
[07:21:31] <pfred1> I buy it by the gallon and fill up my little can pours easier
[07:21:35] <MattyMatt> it's like the CFC scare. freeze spray was still available but in smaller cans at 4x the price
[07:22:09] <pfred1> I don't know what life would be like without acetone
[07:22:16] <MattyMatt> poverty is then the means of controlling behaviour
[07:23:12] <MattyMatt> and now the banks have gone, they'll start moaning that there's no small manufacturing
[07:23:24] <pfred1> well pretty soon we'll all have atomic assemblers on our desktops what will the government do then?
[07:23:44] <MattyMatt> ensure they are too expensive to run
[07:24:36] <L84Supper> the central banks are going to introduce a new reserve currency to replace the USD, that is the plan
[07:24:42] <pfred1> nah we'll open source it so you cna dump in poo
[07:26:04] <pfred1> the future is here it is just not evenly distributed yet.
[07:26:33] <MattyMatt> it's all on one planet, that's the big problem
[07:27:00] <MattyMatt> 7 billion people all saying This Is MY Planet
[07:28:18] <L84Supper> well the central bankers are claiming it's theirs and getting it so far
[07:28:20] <BlackMoon> lol at replacing the USD
[07:28:25] <MattyMatt> Heinlein was right, we need a new wild frontier
[07:28:29] <L84Supper> control anyway
[07:28:37] <BlackMoon> do they really think they can just drop there multi trillion dollar debt through creative accounting?
[07:29:08] <MattyMatt> China will accept Hawaii & Korea
[07:29:35] <MattyMatt> as interest
[07:29:37] <pfred1> they can have korea
[07:29:39] <Jymmm> Pay the politicians $1/yr + a percentage of the revenue they generate
[07:29:46] <L84Supper> Blackmoon : not at all, that is why the central banks have been setting it up to fail
[07:30:01] <Jymmm> bet ya the Us can be in the black in no time
[07:30:51] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: sure if you want 0 services :)
[07:31:22] <Jymmm> Hey, the USPS does NOT use tax dollars, they generate their own revenue
[07:31:27] <BlackMoon> 'Ok first cuts are in.. we cut.. 99.99% to.. everything. Schools will now be replaced by educational comic books sold with $0.05 gum because thats all we can afford'
[07:31:29] <pfred1> BlackMoon I'm getting no services i don't pay for already
[07:31:48] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: I didnt say CUTS, I said revenue
[07:31:59] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: And thats how they will generate the revenue :P
[07:32:21] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: then they wont get paid
[07:32:37] <dmz_> whatsup moon
[07:32:38] <MattyMatt> US can be self sufficient in everything except pokemon
[07:32:48] <BlackMoon> to bad you arnt the one making the pay rules
[07:32:49] <BlackMoon> they are!
[07:33:02] <BlackMoon> And they just keep voting themselfs bigger and bigger raises
[07:33:14] <BlackMoon> dmz_: nothing
[07:35:10] <dmz_> wonder if there are any people that know about fanuc stuff here
[08:08:02] <MattyMatt> out of my league, this season
[08:11:01] <MattyMatt> I suppose you'll need a master co-ordinator system for a setup with multiple robots. running a whole assembly line on one emc2 probably isn't clever
[08:30:14] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[08:45:55] <dmz_> i dont have robots. i have 2 mills with old fanuc controls. 5m and 3000c
[08:47:36] <dmz_> large mills..
[09:23:00] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[09:40:17] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[09:47:09] <anonimasu> MattyMatt: what about making classicladder wait for input from something
[09:47:28] <anonimasu> MattyMatt: and pause at sync point
[09:55:31] <MattyMatt> is that in reply to "can't run a whole factory of one emc2"?
[09:56:38] <MattyMatt> I hate OOP in code. Event driven machine processes will screw up in just as interesting ways :)
[09:57:45] <MattyMatt> that's as crazy as letting humans drive cars on a road
[09:59:11] <MattyMatt> just like in java, every now and then you need to garbage collect the accidents
[10:26:43] <MattyMatt> dammit. fixed my ram but still not booting, even tho cd integrity check says OK now
[10:27:09] <MattyMatt> different mobo time
[10:28:22] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:29:47] <BlackMoon> meh I should probley do some milling
[10:30:00] <BlackMoon> allready roughed it in... love my corncob endmill
[10:31:05] <BlackMoon> was doing 0.3" DOC 0.1" WOC at 300rpm's (slow!) at 3/4" diamiter rougher endmill in mild steel at like 8FPM and it just chewed through it like nothing
[10:31:07] <MattyMatt> good morning piasdom
[10:32:31] <BlackMoon> little bit of hammering could be seen in the table movement heh, should try more WOC someday.
[10:32:56] <BlackMoon> everything stayed pertty cool too, minimal coolant smoking and the chips where not too hot.
[10:33:01] <MrSunshine> gah why is machine screws so god damn expensive :(
[10:33:15] <BlackMoon> though I noticed some where magnetic and started getting recut beween the top of my vise jaws and the bottom of the endmill -_-
[10:33:17] <MrSunshine> ok its like a couple of sek each but :P
[10:33:23] <MrSunshine> it adds up when you need a couple =)
[10:33:30] <BlackMoon> MrSunshine: buy 100packs
[10:33:36] <BlackMoon> they are much cheaper then buying indivual ones
[10:33:47] <BlackMoon> like 1/5th as much sometimes
[10:33:58] <BlackMoon> (find a real industral supplyer localy)
[10:34:32] <MattyMatt> I got 1000 M5 nuts, because it was 2x the price of 100
[10:34:33] <BlackMoon> for like big bolts they will sell you indivual ones, but for small bolts and nuts and washers they will sell by the 100 or pound at a very cheap rate
[10:35:58] <BlackMoon> MattyMatt: exactly, the smaller the item the more it makes sense to buy more of
[10:36:38] <BlackMoon> and if you ever use 200 M5 nuts in the rest of your life, well your ahead
[10:37:17] <BlackMoon> Or if you really where thrifty, ebay half em and get your money back.
[10:38:10] <MattyMatt> I've been considering some kits
[10:38:42] <MattyMatt> reprap mendel needs 104 M8 nuts :)
[10:38:47] <BlackMoon> they allways seem overpriced unless you buy some lame ass grade negative 5 chinese kid
[10:38:48] <BlackMoon> err kit
[10:39:31] <BlackMoon> On the plus side, some of those kits come with exoticly thin washers :P
[10:39:54] <BlackMoon> Great when you need a shim of a few dozen mills
[10:40:23] <MattyMatt> all my shims smell of beans
[10:40:30] <BlackMoon> lol
[10:40:45] <BlackMoon> I have some genuine brass shim material in a kit in sheets
[10:40:49] <BlackMoon> all nice and shiny and perfict
[10:40:57] <BlackMoon> ....
[10:41:01] <BlackMoon> Someday i'll use it, honest
[10:41:30] <MattyMatt> make a micromill
[10:41:42] <BlackMoon> I allready have a mill
[10:42:02] <BlackMoon> https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16133&cat=252&bestseller=Y
[10:42:14] <BlackMoon> It could eat a micromill for breakfast
[10:42:48] <MattyMatt> can it make watch parts?
[10:42:55] <BlackMoon> sure
[10:43:55] <BlackMoon> Might wanna slap a high speed spindle on there but whatever.
[10:44:36] <MattyMatt> ah 'micromill' is bigger than I was thinking
[10:45:10] <BlackMoon> micromills are like, 12" by 4" by 6" xyz travel or something
[10:45:41] <BlackMoon> not bad but you'll really wish you had more :)
[10:45:52] <BlackMoon> IH mill is 30" x 12" x 19" xyz :)
[10:45:54] <MattyMatt> something no bigger than 6" in any dimension, with a 1" cube working space, and a 1mm collet
[10:46:20] <MattyMatt> mine is 16x14x8, even though it's plywood
[10:46:57] <MattyMatt> smaller than I was aiming for, now it'll struggle to do guitar bodies
[10:47:04] <BlackMoon> you do know that most small tools come in larger shanks like 1/8" 3/16" or even 1/4" or 3/8"
[10:47:28] <BlackMoon> its the high RPM's you really need for small tools thats the pain
[10:49:41] <MattyMatt> those piezo motors look neat
[10:50:31] <MattyMatt> http://www.newscaletech.com/squiggle_overview.html these ones
[10:51:42] <BlackMoon> yea saw those before, very cool
[10:52:52] <BlackMoon> consider 3000rpm at 1/8"
[10:52:56] <BlackMoon> is only 100sfm
[10:53:11] <BlackMoon> so about the right speed for mild steel but slow for everything softer
[10:53:50] <BlackMoon> praticaly talking requiring a 10,000~30,000rpm router for a spindle if you play with small endmills < 1/4"
[10:55:25] <MattyMatt> the smaller the spindle, the less problem of high rpm. you are stuck with low inertia tho
[10:55:48] <BlackMoon> yea, hence why the strap on router is a popular option :)
[10:56:57] <MattyMatt> my cheapo dremel claims 35krpm
[10:57:57] <BlackMoon> yea but the bearings won't handle serious sideload
[10:58:14] <MattyMatt> skate bearings
[10:58:42] <MattyMatt> easily changed when they start to slop
[10:59:24] <MattyMatt> I think the noise it makes over ~20k is unbalance or wonky spindle
[11:00:00] <BlackMoon> lol
[11:00:13] <MattyMatt> I did say it was cheap
[11:00:24] <BlackMoon> well iv heard of people doing it.. moreso for toolpost grinders then milling though
[11:00:32] <BlackMoon> the router seems perfered however
[11:00:51] <BlackMoon> some even have softstart and real feedback to keep constant RPM and such
[11:01:15] <MattyMatt> and readily available if it explodes again. I've already soldered a dry joint and I haven't started milling yet
[11:01:27] <BlackMoon> lol
[11:04:17] <MattyMatt> with a really small machine, you could have a fixed cutting point and move the work fast enough to get your cutting speed
[11:04:38] <BlackMoon> I think we call those shapers
[11:04:53] <BlackMoon> And oddly enough, its usally the big mills that go the fastest
[11:04:57] <MattyMatt> ah yes
[11:05:14] <BlackMoon> slow rapids on a big mill is lame
[11:05:37] <MattyMatt> there's the cube/square thing with the motors
[11:10:30] <MattyMatt> I wish I could afford a couple of dozen squiggle motors to make some mini robots
[11:12:31] <MattyMatt> ah it'd make the brain size problem worse. I already need to make a bigger head for my robosapien
[11:12:44] <BlackMoon> lol
[11:12:51] <BlackMoon> just learn SMD :)
[11:13:19] <MattyMatt> I'll need that anyway
[11:13:39] <MattyMatt> and thin PCBs, to save weight
[11:14:08] <MattyMatt> I think RS might walk better with a slightly heavier head tho
[11:15:13] <MattyMatt> it walks by swinging it's upper body left and right as the feet shuffle forwards and backwards
[11:15:59] <MattyMatt> I'll give little pinnochio some knees one day
[11:17:32] <MattyMatt> proper bipedal walking doesn't seem like such a hard challenge these days with MEMS gyro and accel
[11:21:29] <MattyMatt> asimo needs some fast twitch muscles. solenoids to supplement the motors when running
[11:22:09] <MattyMatt> it runs like an old man
[11:22:43] <MattyMatt> no calves or buttocks
[11:23:16] <MattyMatt> it'll never play professional soccer with those legs
[11:47:54] <BlackMoon> I think the 'fast twitch muscels' are the problem
[11:58:19] <alex_joni> just wait till he gets fast twitch cramps
[11:59:05] <alex_joni> MattyMatt: flexible PCB's .. even more weight saved
[12:00:45] <BlackMoon> lol
[12:01:11] <BlackMoon> flexipcbs twist my little mind
[12:18:52] <alex_joni> morning PCW_
[12:19:12] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[12:27:42] <JT-Dev> afternoon alex_joni
[12:35:03] <Valen> check out the gearbox http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=60655#60655
[12:35:12] <Valen> it'd probably even make archivist cry
[12:36:29] <JT-Dev> very tiny
[12:38:43] <Valen> ok who's using windows 7 ;-P
[12:40:32] <JT-Dev> nada
[12:40:59] <Valen> probably the forum guys then lol
[12:41:04] <Valen> just watching the logs
[12:41:15] <Valen> I want to reboot the machine but everybody is looking at it now
[12:42:54] <anonimasu> Valen: I am
[12:43:28] <Valen> its weird, it reports itself as windows 6.1
[12:43:38] <Valen> well windows NT 6.1
[12:43:53] <anonimasu> hm.. windows 2000 was nt 5 so it's not too weird
[12:44:10] <Valen> yeah but why call it windows 7 if its version is 6.1
[12:44:17] <Valen> why not call it windows 6
[12:45:20] <anonimasu> and xp was 5.10....
[12:46:10] <anonimasu> release name vs build number.. I guess
[13:14:34] <piasdom> in axis...can i round the number from 2 places to 3 ?
[13:33:09] <alex_joni> round from 2 to 3?
[13:36:17] <alex_joni> usually it's the other way around..
[14:13:21] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:13:21] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-03-11.txt
[14:33:37] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge reads the man pages to see if this can be solved by reading the documentation :)
[14:34:20] <JT-Hardinge> yep pretty straight foward
[14:35:48] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge thinks that if you have a turret type tool changer you leave the tool-prep-loop in as you can't prep a tool on a turret
[14:38:42] <cradek> I agree
[14:42:20] <JT-Hardinge> cradek: morning
[14:42:29] <cradek> hi
[14:50:54] <seb__> seb__ is now known as sebjames
[14:55:09] <piasdom> i mean to round the digits after the decimal place
[14:57:35] <piasdom> right now it reads 3.47", i would like 3.475" ..... Thanks
[15:05:08] <cradek> while you could make that change (but only by editing axis.py) it might be deceptive because the preview doesn't really have that much precision in all cases
[15:05:24] <cradek> I mean you could make it show more numbers, sure -- but I don't know if you should trust them.
[15:05:37] <cradek> I'm curious what is your use-case where this is needed?
[15:05:43] <piasdom> cradek; thanks that's what i needed
[15:07:25] <piasdom> cradek; sometime i adjust the setting a few thousands to get closer to my finish part and i wanted to see if it actually did move :)
[15:08:04] <piasdom> some time recutting at the measurement doesn't take any more off
[15:08:44] <piasdom> cradek; Thanks again
[16:00:41] <Danimal-office> morning
[16:01:48] <Danimal-office> JT-Hardinge, do you have a link to the belt you got for the hardinge? i wanna see if ours are the same.
[16:03:47] <JT-Hardinge> one sec
[16:04:02] <Danimal-office> how's the lathe coming
[16:05:02] <JT-Hardinge> CN 0003346
[16:05:03] <Danimal-office> did you try to decipher my mess of a ladder?
[16:05:28] <JT-Hardinge> I could not open it up the file was corrupted
[16:05:40] <JT-Hardinge> both my X and Z use the same belt
[16:06:32] <JT-Hardinge> they all had a number prefix on each line too
[16:06:55] <Danimal-office> hmmm
[16:08:06] <Danimal-office> http://pastebin.com/CykATZZv
[16:09:00] <Danimal-office> for some reason it wasnt letting me copy the file
[16:09:05] <Danimal-office> not sure why
[16:09:25] <JT-Hardinge> that worked for the hal file
[16:19:29] <aa-danimal-shop> anyone have a clue why it wont let me copy my config files onto a flash drive?
[16:21:02] <aa-danimal-shop> hey there it goes! the folder i was trying to save it in was effed up
[16:22:44] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, sent it to the jt.plasma addy
[16:27:20] <sealive> good evening from germany
[16:37:55] <sealive> is ther a page that lists the options for the parallelportsettings ? those that are behind the arrow to the right
[16:41:24] <JT-Hardinge> thanks dan
[16:42:34] <aa-danimal-shop> no prob
[16:44:25] <sealive> danimal do jou have a real cnc shop?
[16:45:50] <aa-danimal-shop> define real lol
[16:46:03] <aa-danimal-shop> i have a couple real cnc machines
[16:47:44] <sealive> online shop ? i got 12CNC and 4 at home HOMEMADE
[16:48:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=9023764&subid=28719420&type=
[16:48:56] <SWPadnos> huh. that's cheap
[16:49:54] <aa-danimal-shop> http://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/
[16:50:00] <aa-danimal-shop> pictures of my shop
[16:50:06] <aa-danimal-shop> 12 machines? nice
[16:50:46] <SWPadnos> but compared to the Asus, it has no optical drive, a slower single-core CPU, half the disk space, and half the memory
[16:50:53] <SWPadnos> so it makes sense that it would be half the price ;)
[16:51:23] <aa-danimal-shop> and no pci slot?
[16:51:51] <sealive> http://www.sammellothar.de/X_rahmen.mpg -> here is the new mini-CNC
[16:51:52] <SWPadnos> it's not that kind of PC :)
[16:52:48] <sealive> aa-danimal-shop: how old is the lathe
[16:53:53] <aa-danimal-shop> the red one? about 100 years old
[16:54:11] <aa-danimal-shop> the grey cnc one is 32 years old
[16:54:25] <sealive> and all on EMC
[16:55:26] <aa-danimal-shop> only 2
[16:55:39] <aa-danimal-shop> the big mill and the grey lathe
[16:56:04] <sealive> so what do you do with thease
[16:56:18] <sealive> i bild scale modells for FUN
[16:56:36] <aa-danimal-shop> i make bicycle parts
[16:57:09] <sealive> crosscountry is here where i life popular
[16:57:37] <Danimal-office> yea, mine are for cross country single speed mountain bikes
[16:58:09] <sealive> near RAMSTEIN AFB Germany 50000 American Solders in the Region 250 in town
[17:00:54] <sealive> we have 1250 KM of markt bicicle Way's from 5 to 250KM here From Black Profession to Green with Cild-trailer
[17:01:39] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[17:02:54] <sealive> and every (at least) 25KM a Support station or even a Railroadstation to move in or out of the track
[17:03:11] <sealive> you may now UDO BĂ–LTS
[17:05:35] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i might have heard of them
[17:05:50] <frallzor> I haven't
[17:07:03] <sealive> 7 times Tour De france Finisher
[17:08:19] <sealive> ok lets talk about EMC !
[17:08:31] <atmega> ok!
[17:08:38] <sealive> i got a Driver that suports SLEEP and Boost
[17:09:05] <sealive> the Parallelport settings does not give me anithing like that
[17:10:21] <atmega> assuming you have pins, is there any real benefit to separate +/- limit and home switches? If you had to share some due to pins, is it preferable to share all homes, combine home/limit, etc?
[17:10:46] <SWPadnos> separating the limit switches lets EMC know which end it's hit
[17:11:02] <frallzor> shouldnt it know anyway depensing on the dir?
[17:11:07] <frallzor> *depending
[17:11:09] <atmega> yeah, but if it is moving -, shouldn't it only hit the neg limit?
[17:11:20] <SWPadnos> I'd say it's best to combine -limit with home, and have a separate input for _limit
[17:11:27] <SWPadnos> well, if everything is working properly, sure
[17:11:37] <SWPadnos> but if everything is working properly, you won't hit a limit switch
[17:12:21] <atmega> if you combine home and -limit, the switch needs to trip some amount before it hits a hard stop? Is that calculable?
[17:12:37] <sealive> the softwar does regenice it if the Programm is loadet if you can reatch this pont ,I'am right?
[17:12:52] <SWPadnos> it's probably more or less calculable, but it's also "experimentable"
[17:13:17] <atmega> yeah, I just wanted an idea of how close the experiment had to be.
[17:13:21] <sealive> http://www.sammellothar.de/X_rahmen.mpg did someone see my animation
[17:13:34] <SWPadnos> sealive, I think you asked if EMC2 will detect when a program will exceed limits - the answer is yes
[17:13:49] <SWPadnos> atmega, it depends on how hard the stop is, I guess :)
[17:14:00] <sealive> Thank You SWPadnos
[17:14:11] <atmega> or how big the motor is, or what breaks first.
[17:14:26] <SWPadnos> you can calculate the software stopping distance by using D=1/2at^2 or whatever the distance/accel formula is
[17:15:17] <atmega> I got a cheap 3 axis driver board, it has two jumper settings for low and high current. High doesn't seem to do anything, any suggestions (with such limited information)?
[17:15:17] <SWPadnos> if you have servos, you'd want to leave more room - having an encoder fail and the drive pump full power into the motor will have a different stopping distance than a controlled stop
[17:15:51] <SWPadnos> limit switches are generally used to physically cut off motor power actually (in hardware) - they're considered an E-Stop condition
[17:16:16] <sealive> is ther a page that lists the options for the parallelportsettings ? those that are behind the arrow to the right
[17:16:17] <SWPadnos> the soft limits should be slightly inside the hard limits, so that EMC can stop the motor from full speed before hitting the hard limit
[17:16:26] <atmega> no servos here... lots of compumotor stuff at work, it pretty much always stops immediately on a failed encoder/resolver
[17:16:47] <SWPadnos> the hard limit should be far enough from the end stop so that the machine will stop using whatever hardware stopping method you have
[17:17:09] <SWPadnos> high end servo drives can apply 8-10 times normal torque for e-stop conditions
[17:17:20] <SWPadnos> (that's a setting in my Yaskawa drives, defaults to 800%)
[17:18:08] <atmega> what is 'behind the arrow on the right'?
[17:20:00] <sealive> the setting for eatch pin
[17:20:37] <sealive> i'am gewrman and need to find out if ther is somthing in english that shows me what this means
[17:24:51] <SWPadnos> what arrow are you referring to?
[17:26:25] <sealive> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_stepconf.html#sub:Parallel-Port-Setup
[17:26:47] <sealive> behind eatch pin is a list this list i mean
[17:26:53] <SWPadnos> sealive, you can use other functions for SLEEP and BOOST - it depends on what they do and when you want those things to happen
[17:27:11] <sealive> they are diferent from input to output as they shoudt be
[17:28:16] <SWPadnos> yes. there are no SLEEP or BOOST functions, you have to decide when (or if) you want those features enabled on your driver, and then either select an existing function (like "Amplifier Enable"), or add some HAL commands to your custom.hal file
[17:28:30] <sealive> the sleep shoudt happen if the driver is on but the Axis are not moving to reduse the Amp's from the Driver
[17:28:45] <SWPadnos> there is no function for that in EMC2
[17:29:26] <SWPadnos> you can get something like that to work, but it won't be able to bring the driver out of sleep until a step actually occurs, which could be too late
[17:29:29] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[17:29:52] <SWPadnos> (you would need to do some custom HAL stuff, with timers and one-shots, to get that to work)
[17:30:03] <sealive> ok then forget ist more cooling to the driver
[17:30:09] <SWPadnos> good plan :)
[17:30:48] <SWPadnos> there are two "on" states in emc2 - one is "estop reset" or "machine off", the other is "machine on"
[17:31:14] <SWPadnos> it might make sense to have "machine off" put the driver into sleep mode. you would manually do that with F2
[17:31:30] <SWPadnos> just get used to hitting F2 when the machine will be sitting for a while, but not moving motors around
[17:33:54] <sealive> testing it
[17:36:09] <sealive> i got a anexpected real time dalay
[17:36:47] <SWPadnos> interesting. not related to signal connections, but it might tell you that the PC you're using isn't good for software step generation
[17:38:16] <sealive> does this mean i lost some steps
[17:39:49] <SWPadnos> the error doesn't say that. what it means is that there was a time when the periodic interrupt was a bit late (or early)
[17:40:12] <SWPadnos> I think the test checks for >10% variation, which might be more strict than necessary
[17:40:31] <sealive> ok
[17:40:55] <sealive> is the "machine off" connectet to M02 M30 M00 M5 ?
[17:41:53] <SWPadnos> no, I think it's only F2 or some other user interface command
[17:42:54] <sealive> ok it works
[17:44:39] <sealive> the picture of the Start Home page from linuxcnc shows a bunny in milling is this prog at the sample folder ?
[17:46:07] <SWPadnos> that's no bunny!
[17:46:15] <SWPadnos> it should be Tux, the Linux penguin :)
[17:46:21] <archivist_attic> 3dchips
[17:48:26] <sealive> i git it
[17:48:35] <sealive> i got it
[17:48:55] <sealive> got to get a light source its dark now cant see the keys
[17:49:30] <sealive> -5Deg Celsius no Cloud light snow on the ground
[17:52:33] <sealive> so thats ok what is the Blue screen of the Homepage
[17:55:42] <SWPadnos> tkemc, another GUI
[17:55:42] <sealive> one more Quest !then i got to go. what if the programm is in Inch G71 and the mashine is in Metric G70 does EMC calculate this ?
[17:56:13] <SWPadnos> yes, machine units and program units can be different
[17:56:33] <sealive> SWPadnos: Thank you
[17:56:40] <cradek> you mean g20/g21
[17:56:54] <SWPadnos> in fact, it should be possible to have inch screws on some axes, and mm ones on others - that setting is per axis
[17:58:05] <sealive> no i mean the program ,it seams fore me that the pinguine is in Inch
[17:58:45] <SWPadnos> it's not a problem to use G20 or G21 on any EMC2 machine, regardless of the machine default units
[17:58:55] <SWPadnos> you can mix and match in a single program if you want
[17:59:03] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[18:00:13] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, you're so smart! hard to believe you're from VT!
[18:00:14] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[18:00:21] <SWPadnos> :P
[18:01:03] <aa-danimal-shop> you must not be a native, otherwise you'd be on the #cheese or #syrup channels instead
[18:01:17] <aa-danimal-shop> or #phish
[18:01:47] <aa-danimal-shop> :D
[18:01:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:02:03] <SWPadnos> does it count as native if we moved here before I turned 2?
[18:02:14] <SWPadnos> if not, I'm a North Carolinian
[18:02:16] <archivist_attic> hmm syrup sandwich
[18:02:37] <aa-danimal-shop> depends...it depends on if your mother drank VT water while she was pregnant.
[18:02:42] <SWPadnos> we ought to tap the maple trees in the back yard
[18:02:59] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop must be from one if the 'superior states'
[18:02:59] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos, amazingly, we've never done that
[18:03:24] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374, i'm only teasing. my state gets it the worst, so i gotta dish it out when i can
[18:04:27] <aa-danimal-shop> we had tons of maples in the backyard when i lived in CT
[18:04:41] <clytle374> I thought my state got it the worst, WV
[18:04:54] <aa-danimal-shop> no, i believe CA takes the cake
[18:05:20] <aa-danimal-shop> with the Governator and all
[18:05:31] <clytle374> well, CA does ask for a lot of it.
[18:05:41] <aa-danimal-shop> see?
[18:05:47] <clytle374> north or south?
[18:05:55] <aa-danimal-shop> south. San Diego
[18:06:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i think as soon as property values come back up, i'm going to colorado
[18:06:49] <aa-danimal-shop> buy be a bit of land
[18:07:52] <aa-danimal-shop> me*
[18:07:58] <clytle374> I spend a few weeks there.
[18:08:19] <sealive> By till the next time :D
[18:08:46] <aa-danimal-shop> in SD?
[18:08:51] <aa-danimal-shop> or colorado
[18:10:02] <clytle374> yep, machine shop for the school, sits on a cliff next to a hang gliding park
[18:10:12] <clytle374> SD
[18:11:04] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[18:11:11] <aa-danimal-shop> lots of cliffs here
[18:11:16] <aa-danimal-shop> and hills
[18:11:23] <aa-danimal-shop> best part about the place
[18:11:29] <jackc> clytle374: a hang gliding park? what state?
[18:12:22] <clytle374> I think it was UCLA marine biology dept
[18:12:24] <jackc> oh sorry, ready up. i know all the ones in new england and NY but alas not that far south
[18:12:30] <jackc> oh wow
[18:13:19] <aa-danimal-shop> ucla isnt san diego
[18:13:25] <aa-danimal-shop> it's los angeles
[18:13:32] <aa-danimal-shop> BIG difference!
[18:13:32] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, just little mounds compared to here.
[18:13:58] <aa-danimal-shop> how tall are your average mountains?
[18:14:05] <clytle374> there is a remote division, it was SD
[18:14:10] <aa-danimal-shop> oh
[18:14:44] <clytle374> higest peak is 3400'
[18:15:30] <aa-danimal-shop> hahaha thats not even a speed bump
[18:15:35] <clytle374> The cliff was ocean front, very cool place for a shop.
[18:15:51] <aa-danimal-shop> average out here is about 4,000-6,000
[18:16:17] <aa-danimal-shop> but i believe we have over 14,000
[18:16:34] <clytle374> That's all further inland?
[18:16:45] <aa-danimal-shop> not at all
[18:16:47] <clytle374> I don't remember any massive hills.
[18:17:45] <aa-danimal-shop> they dont look massive because they're's so many of them
[18:18:53] <aa-danimal-shop> california's highest point is 14,494'
[18:19:13] <mk0> oh, feet wuuuh
[18:19:27] <mk0> didn't notice '
[18:20:47] <aa-danimal-shop> which is the highest point in the continental US
[18:20:49] <clytle374> I spend the whole time near the shore due to the traffic, I remember rolling hills and some mountains near buy, but no steep terrain.
[18:21:19] <aa-danimal-shop> san diego is pretty big
[18:21:45] <aa-danimal-shop> palomar mountain is pretty high, i think 7k feet and thats in SD
[18:22:34] <aa-danimal-shop> mt laguna
[18:24:24] <clytle374> lets put it this way, you could built SD here. our mountains are like this?/\/\/\/\/\/
[18:30:52] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[18:31:14] <aa-danimal-shop> we still win
[18:32:21] <aa-danimal-shop> our state: http://geology.com/state-map/california.shtml
[18:33:10] <aa-danimal-shop> yours: http://geology.com/state-map/west-virginia.shtml
[18:33:37] <aa-danimal-shop> no way you can say you have more mountains
[18:35:49] <dupal> hello
[18:36:48] <jackc> yhelothar
[18:37:06] <dupal> i've got a problem with emc, everything except G2/G3 moves works OK. If I use G3, nothing happens, CNC stops moving
[18:37:56] <dupal> could it be mathfuns related?
[18:38:17] <Jymmm> WTF?! http://www.click2houston.com/news/22806207/detail.html?hpt=T2
[18:39:49] <jackc> dupal: when you open an nc file in axis, does it show the arc displayed properlly?
[18:39:56] <jackc> im betting your mathz are wrong
[18:40:35] <jackc> g0 x0 y0 z0 / g2 x2 r1
[18:44:12] <dupal> jackc: axis interface freezes after runing g2
[18:47:19] <dupal> jackc: math is in rtai modules? i've tried 3 emc versions and nothing helped
[18:47:27] <Jymmm> Man, I'd beat that bastard with a bottle of laundry detergent if that's all I could get my hands on at the time!
[18:47:55] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[18:48:16] <aa-danimal-shop> i think she can probably sue walmart since it happened on their property
[18:48:50] <Jymmm> probably. Worth trying at least.
[18:49:03] <SWPadnos> dupal, do you get any sort of message?
[18:49:32] <Jymmm> Ram him with a shopping cart
[18:50:40] <SWPadnos> "store security" is actually "loss prevention", not security
[18:50:48] <dupal> SWPadnos: no messages, just freezes, dmesg doesn't show anything suspicious
[18:51:13] <SWPadnos> dupal, ok, and does the AXIS preview show arcs correctly?
[18:51:55] <Jymmm> It's Texas! What, nobody had a gun to shoot the SOB?!
[18:52:06] <dupal> SWPadnos, no arcs there
[18:52:20] <SWPadnos> dupal, are you using MDI or loading a G-code program?
[18:53:27] <dupal> SWPadnos, i've done jpeg->g-code conversion, but neither mdi work
[18:54:02] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, bigger isn't always better.
[18:54:05] <SWPadnos> when you start EMC2, it should show a "logo" that says "EMC2 Axis", does that display correctly?
[18:55:10] <dupal> SWPadnos, axis works perfect on other g-codes, linear moves are ok
[18:55:20] <SWPadnos> that doesn't answer my question :)
[18:56:32] <dupal> SWPadnos, sry :) EMC2 Axis is shown perfect and runs with no problem
[18:56:48] <jackc> interesting
[18:57:13] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm pretty sure that code uses some arcs
[18:57:27] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374, keep telling yourself that lol
[18:57:52] <aa-danimal-shop> "it's not the size of the mountain, but the motion of the ocean"
[18:58:20] <aa-danimal-shop> oh wait you dont have oceans either lol
[18:58:25] <aa-danimal-shop> sorry
[18:58:33] <aa-danimal-shop> just teasing
[18:58:36] <dupal> SWPadnos, EMC2 AXIS uses just linear moves - G1
[18:58:53] <aa-danimal-shop> i miss the east coast landscape
[18:59:02] <atmega> what landscape?
[18:59:14] <aa-danimal-shop> trees and greeness
[18:59:16] <SWPadnos> dupal, huh, so it does. nevermind answering that question :)
[18:59:32] <atmega> I live as far east as you can get (here anyway), it's flat, pine trees and live oaks
[18:59:53] <aa-danimal-shop> where?
[18:59:56] <aa-danimal-shop> maine?
[19:00:12] <clytle374> I'll take the rugged Appalachian mountains any day, traveled for a few years and picked this spot. To each their own.
[19:00:16] <clytle374> Link: <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=glider+park&sll=32.884038,-117.247574&sspn=0.004793,0.013797&gl=us&ie=UTF8&cd=1&split=1&filter=0&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.4&hq=glider+park&hnear=&ll=32.884038,-117.247574&
[19:00:22] <clytle374> this is where I was at.
[19:00:29] <SWPadnos> dupal, load tort.ngc and see if the preview shows any arcs :)
[19:00:38] <atmega> coastal north carolina (wilmington)
[19:00:59] <dupal> SWPadnos, :) ok, i'll try to to solve it later, but i have also one problem :) 2.3.5 sources from sourceforge.net seems to be corrupted, am I right?
[19:01:00] <clytle374> So it wasn't SD proper
[19:01:21] <dupal> SWPadnos, ok, will try tort.ngc
[19:01:23] <SWPadnos> the project is no longer hosted at sourceforge, so I wouldn't be surprised if the sources there are crap
[19:01:32] <SWPadnos> source is at git.linuxcnc.org
[19:01:52] <aa-danimal-shop> atmega, what about the smokeys?
[19:02:11] <SWPadnos> you shouldn't need to compile for yourself - if you're doing that, try using the liveCD instead. that will tell you if (somehow) your PC can't do arcs
[19:02:20] <SWPadnos> (which would be very surprising, but who knows)
[19:02:37] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374, yea, thats a relatively flat area of SD. i live in northern inland SD
[19:03:19] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm in a valley surrounded by approx 3,000 foot hils
[19:03:32] <aa-danimal-shop> hills*
[19:03:58] <dupal> SWPadnos, tort.ngc same problem, freezes
[19:04:51] <SWPadnos> ok. are you running an OS that prevents you from using the pre-built EMC2 packages?
[19:04:52] <dupal> SWPadnos, yep, liveCD worked, so I think problem is in realtime modules
[19:05:11] <SWPadnos> ok, if you compiled it yourself, I'd fix whatever you did wrong and try again ;)
[19:05:29] <dupal> SWPadnos, ok, will try again, thanks for helping, bye
[19:05:39] <mk0> how can arcs not work??
[19:05:40] <SWPadnos> there could be a floating point setting in RTAI that needs to change
[19:05:57] <SWPadnos> but I don't see how, since lines use floating point in the RT kernel modules as well
[19:06:09] <mk0> it's definetely not PC
[19:06:20] <dupal> SWPadnos, may i use RTAI or different patch?
[19:06:23] <SWPadnos> the only difference is that the arc functions can use trig functions, and there's no RT kernel trig library
[19:06:41] <SWPadnos> but every x86 has trig functions, so ...
[19:06:55] <SWPadnos> there was RTLinux support, but it hasn't been maintained
[19:07:13] <dupal> SWPadnos, ok, thanks a lot, have 2 go
[19:07:17] <SWPadnos> if you'd like to contribute an ADEOS or POSIX-style RTAPI layer, please do :)
[19:07:19] <SWPadnos> ok, good luck
[19:07:25] <dupal> SWPadnos, :)
[19:14:20] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I'm regularely uploading the sources to SF at each release
[19:14:46] <SWPadnos> ok, good to know
[19:15:27] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/files/
[19:16:05] <alex_joni> hmm.. judging by size, the 2.3.5 source is definately foobar
[19:20:08] <alex_joni> 58a5c942413f1f0431207dee0de9f14c -> new file
[19:22:29] <alex_joni> matches the file at http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/emc2.3/source/emc2_2.3.5.tar.gz
[20:05:34] <robh_> robh_ is now known as Guest13218
[20:07:12] <aa-danimal-shop> lol why would you change your name to guest?
[20:07:33] <Guest13218> Guest13218 is now known as robh__
[20:08:01] <Vq> for laughs probably
[20:16:20] <aa-danimal-shop> for poops and grins?
[20:16:59] <archivist_attic> not logging in and using a registered nick causes it
[20:18:01] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[20:28:04] <atmega> smokies are 8 hours away
[20:28:15] <atmega> ta
[21:06:25] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[21:07:19] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[21:32:54] <MattyMatt> is 64MB enough to boot LiveCD? that's the only common factor between these 2 machines
[21:33:16] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:33:24] <SWPadnos> or at least, very likely nope
[21:33:57] <SWPadnos> you may be able to edit the grub boot line to contain "single", which will give you a nice shell (and no networking)
[21:34:10] <SWPadnos> or maybe there will be networking, I don't recall
[21:34:33] <MattyMatt> I may be forced to put the 64MB in momma's machine :)
[21:34:48] <MattyMatt> or at least take a 128, leaving a 256
[21:35:45] <MattyMatt> and while I'm there, grap my mga400 back and give her this POS 8MB S3 thing
[21:35:56] <jackc> you can get the whole system into runlevel 3 with 64meg (ie networking and such)
[21:36:00] <jackc> but not RL5, which is X
[21:36:01] <SWPadnos> definitely swap the video cards
[21:36:13] <SWPadnos> is that a real G400?
[21:36:19] <SWPadnos> or a G450
[21:36:27] <MattyMatt> real 400. dual head max
[21:36:30] <SWPadnos> cool
[21:36:48] <SWPadnos> those have an actual hardware scaler, so they were great for outputting video to analog monitors :)
[21:36:53] <MattyMatt> the most expensive card I ever bought
[21:37:18] <SWPadnos> yep. I had one in a work PC, I had a G450 in this machine (since upgraded to a Parhelia)
[21:37:26] <MattyMatt> this 9500GT with 1GB was 1/3 the price
[21:37:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:37:50] <SWPadnos> I just got a GT240 with 1GB, passively cooled, for $95
[21:38:09] <SWPadnos> that's one of the ones with full VDPAU acceleration
[21:38:27] <MattyMatt> if it's ddr2, then that's my card rebranded
[21:38:36] <SWPadnos> GDDR5 or something
[21:39:08] <SWPadnos> it even uses so little power that it doesn't need a separate power connection!
[21:39:12] <MattyMatt> yeah I think mine in GT2x5 now, I forget exactly
[21:39:43] <MattyMatt> mine has a fan, but the whole machine is silent compared to all my others
[21:40:30] <SWPadnos> heh. I've been looking for a quiet PC, which also has as little means of ingress as possible
[21:40:51] <SWPadnos> for my mother, who has several cats, and for whom I do not want to be doing service calls all the time
[21:41:21] <MattyMatt> I've got a toploading dvd drive here
[21:41:30] <MattyMatt> easy cleaning :)
[21:41:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:41:48] <SWPadnos> not when it's clogged with cat hair
[21:42:06] <SWPadnos> I'll probably wait until summer to open up her old computer (so I can do it outside)
[21:42:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=9023764&subid=28719420&type=
[21:42:40] <SWPadnos> she should get a good performance boost - going from a Pentium 66 or so to something that'll be fast by todays standards
[21:42:55] <MattyMatt> P66 will run fanless
[21:42:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: mounts to the back of LCD
[21:43:05] <SWPadnos> yeah, I saw that earlier
[21:43:18] <SWPadnos> the EEEBox 1501 does too
[21:43:25] <SWPadnos> but it has a DVD drive (soon to be Blu-Ray)
[21:43:41] <Jymmm> For $180?
[21:43:45] <SWPadnos> no
[21:44:16] <SWPadnos> it's twice the computer (dual core, twice the RAM and storage), has ION graphics, and has a DVD drive, for about twice the price
[21:44:21] <SWPadnos> so it's about what I expect :)
[21:44:45] <MattyMatt> BD still adds $300 to the price, iirc
[21:45:04] <SWPadnos> $100-$150 these days
[21:45:24] <SWPadnos> or $220 if you have to buy the Sony slimline to put into a laptop ...
[21:45:50] <i_tarzan> i_tarzan is now known as the_Lamb
[21:46:22] <MattyMatt> get her a PS3 and install a browser
[21:46:47] <MattyMatt> PS2-linux
[21:46:51] <SWPadnos> I've thought about it - Linux on a PS3 would be almost as good as a real PC with a stompin video card for GPGPU
[21:46:58] <SWPadnos> but she isn't a normal user
[21:47:18] <SWPadnos> she will be doing massive mathematics stuff, not posting photos on facebook
[21:48:38] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1639606822.html
[21:48:56] <MattyMatt> the posh maths programs will become gpu aware in time
[21:49:13] <SWPadnos> she'll be writing them, so it'll be "whenever she gets around to it"
[21:49:37] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[21:49:44] <numen> re
[21:49:51] <MattyMatt> if she uses e.g. a matrix multiply lib, the gpu upgrade will be done for her
[21:50:13] <SWPadnos> she may use the Boost libraries, but I've steered her in the direction of CUDA and CL
[21:50:53] <SWPadnos> I don't know of any "automatic" GPU-using math libraries other than CUDA or CL
[21:51:39] <MattyMatt> the higher level ones like matlab & mathematica are surely being worked on by now
[21:52:05] <SWPadnos> there's an add-on for Matlab that's quite expensive
[21:52:11] <SWPadnos> I don't think it works with Octave
[21:52:25] <SWPadnos> AccelerEyes Jacket
[21:54:01] <SWPadnos> I'm sure the jump to a 6 or 12 core 3GHz or so CPU, 16 GB RAM, Fermi video card, and 1TB or more of hard disk space will seem kind of snappy for her :)
[22:06:22] <MattyMatt> AMD are running a compo with 4x12 mobo+cpu as prize
[22:07:20] <SWPadnos> I saw that
[22:07:27] <MattyMatt> they want an essay or vid on "how you'll do good things for the world" with it :)
[22:07:42] <SWPadnos> yep. "I'll give it to my mother and see what she does with it
[22:07:44] <SWPadnos> " :)
[22:08:26] <archivist> Valen, those were big gears :)
[22:09:16] <Valen> uh huh
[22:09:24] <Valen> to drive a robot around with?
[22:09:48] <archivist> no
[22:11:48] <Valen> how would you make them? shaper I guess
[22:14:59] <archivist> the pinions can be hobbed and the wheels pressed on
[22:16:42] <archivist> can then hob the wheel after mounting on the pinion
[22:17:43] <archivist> heh "Step resolution: 46,875 hz"
[22:50:44] <robh_> robh_ is now known as Guest59299
[22:51:04] <Guest59299> Guest59299 is now known as robh__
[23:50:31] <PCW> Yipee! 7I49 resolver resolution ~13 bits with no filtering
[23:51:10] <JT-Hardinge> This is interesting classic ladder uses =! for not equal :/
[23:51:30] <JT-Hardinge> PCW cool
[23:51:31] <PCW> equal not?
[23:51:54] <JT-Hardinge> yea, it took me 30 minutes to figure that out
[23:52:25] <PCW> sure doesn't scan right
[23:53:17] <clytle374> Are resolvers common now days? Sorry, I don't see new equipment around here.
[23:53:40] <cradek> common in old machines, but not new
[23:53:58] <clytle374> Good point.
[23:54:22] <JT-Hardinge> you can still get drives and servos with resolvers
[23:54:36] <cradek> JT-Hardinge: are you sure it isn't like = (! expression)
[23:54:37] <JT-Hardinge> we replaced one on a machine last year
[23:54:51] <JT-Hardinge> cradek: could be :)
[23:55:13] <cradek> I'd sure expect !=
[23:55:18] <MattyMatt> or <>
[23:55:29] <alex_joni> we use resolvers on all servos
[23:55:31] <cradek> or you could always use -[...=...]------(/)-
[23:55:41] <JT-Hardinge> cradek: that works too
[23:55:53] <JT-Hardinge> that is what I expected too
[23:55:59] <alex_joni> only very old ones (DC's) were motor+tach and encoder for feedback
[23:56:02] <MattyMatt> BF I presume
[23:56:08] <JT-Hardinge> alex_joni: for electrical noise
[23:56:28] <alex_joni> JT-Hardinge: you use it both for motor control, and position control
[23:56:34] <alex_joni> they are also absolute inside one rotation
[23:56:39] <alex_joni> so lots of advantages
[23:57:03] <PCW> Reslovers are also used where tough environments or wide temperature range preclude use of optical encoders
[23:57:14] <MattyMatt> and they provide a vector to drive the radar screen
[23:57:16] <alex_joni> the absolute inside one rotation makes homing unnecessary
[23:57:32] <JT-Hardinge> funny thing it will accept != but it does not compare correctly
[23:57:44] <cradek> hmmm
[23:57:58] <JT-Hardinge> that's what I said
[23:58:17] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, , how's it going?
[23:58:18] <clytle374> alex_joni, how to you acquire the number of revolutions on startup
[23:58:20] <PCW> Useful on brushless for commutation
[23:58:32] <JT-Hardinge> good been lumberjacking this afternoon
[23:58:35] <alex_joni> clytle374: the number of revolutions gets stored in a flash in the servo
[23:58:38] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[23:58:39] <clytle374> PCW, I can see the advantage there.
[23:58:41] <alex_joni> also the shaft position
[23:58:48] <aa-danimal-shop> give up on my ladder? lol
[23:58:51] <clytle374> alex_joni, oh, okay
[23:59:03] <alex_joni> on startup the shaft position is compared, if it doesn't match the position is compromised, and you need to home
[23:59:07] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: did you figure out if the belts are the same?
[23:59:19] <alex_joni> if it matches, then you have the shaft position and number of rotations, so you're set
[23:59:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i couldnt find any info on your belt, like the pitch and # of teeth
[23:59:38] <JT-Hardinge> it's a Hardinge number
[23:59:38] <clytle374> alex_joni, what breed of servos are you using?
[23:59:44] <JT-Hardinge> with their name on it
[23:59:54] <JT-Hardinge> $29
[23:59:56] <aa-danimal-shop> yea