#emc | Logs for 2010-03-08

[00:17:44] <JT-Hardinge> what looks like a normal micro switch but has a + - and a signal?
[00:18:15] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge sounds like a single pole double throw to me NO NC contacts
[00:19:32] <JT-Hardinge> looks like one but it ain
[00:19:35] <JT-Hardinge> 't
[00:19:56] <pfred1> you're ringing it out with a test meter?
[00:20:00] <JT-Hardinge> there are three wires a 24v 0v and a signal
[00:20:09] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[00:21:07] <Valen> hall effect sensor?
[00:21:24] <pfred1> I've taken switches apart that were riveted together just to make sure on some real oddballs
[00:21:26] <Valen> though 24v is rather high for them
[00:21:44] <JT-Hardinge> Valen: something like that yes,
[00:21:59] <JT-Hardinge> I think I was testing it wrong for that
[00:22:34] <aa-danimal-shop> home switch?
[00:22:42] <pfred1> I got a whole bunch of IR emitter detector pairs I got out of cash registers I'm thinking of using for my limit switches someday
[00:24:02] <JT-Hardinge> spindle lock limit switch
[00:25:23] <JT-Hardinge> ahh it is npm
[00:25:26] <JT-Hardinge> npn
[00:26:05] <JT-Hardinge> so my trouble is elsewhere, perhaps the large taped up spot in the cable
[00:26:24] <JT-Hardinge> Valen: hey thanks for talking me out of blowing up the Gateway
[00:26:24] <aa-danimal-shop> ARRRGH i cant wait till that home button fix is out
[00:26:37] <Valen> JT-Hardinge lol no worries
[00:26:39] <JT-Hardinge> in 2.4 Dan?
[00:26:51] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[00:27:08] <aa-danimal-shop> i just hit the home button when i went for the touch off button AGAIN
[00:27:11] <JT-Hardinge> you can get it now, that is what I'm running on both the hardinge and the plasma
[00:27:36] <aa-danimal-shop> is it a pain in the ass to install for noobs like me?
[00:27:49] <JT-Hardinge> I installed it with no problems
[00:28:01] <aa-danimal-shop> yea but you know what you're doing :)
[00:28:02] <JT-Hardinge> and your lathe works without prints
[00:28:11] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge shrink wrap is your friend :0
[00:28:13] <JT-Hardinge> and I have a huge box of prints
[00:28:31] <JT-Hardinge> yea, I have some of every size in my kit
[00:28:51] <pfred1> nothing pisses me off more than electrical tape unraveling
[00:28:58] <aa-danimal-shop> no prints, but i had cradek lol
[00:29:22] <JT-Hardinge> http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/~buildmaster/
[00:29:28] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge thoug hwhen i have to tape something I cut the tape at an angle with scissors
[00:29:47] <aa-danimal-shop> ah cool thanks
[00:29:48] <pfred1> it helps
[00:31:11] <JT-Hardinge> nothing like 88 + rubber tape + scotchkote
[00:31:33] <aa-danimal-shop> i swear my mill sounds smoother with the new pc... is that even possible?
[00:31:44] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop of course
[00:31:55] <aa-danimal-shop> when jogging i mean
[00:32:11] <pfred1> my motors sound different running them off EMC compared to when I ran them off 55 timers
[00:32:23] <aa-danimal-shop> i wonder if i can get more ipm or faster acceleration out if it
[00:32:36] <pfred1> so it makes me think that different PCs would make them different too
[00:32:45] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm
[00:32:57] <aa-danimal-shop> weird
[00:33:13] <pfred1> I've seen some (lots) of PCs that couldn't even keep decent internal time
[00:34:02] <pfred1> honestly consumer PCs are junk
[00:34:32] <pfred1> it never ceases to amaze me that they work at all
[00:35:45] <JT-Hardinge> Dan, crap
[00:36:11] <JT-Hardinge> now I have to figure out actual feeds and speeds for a lathe instead of just watching and feeling
[00:36:42] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge yeah when i mill I always pay attention to how it feel
[00:36:43] <aa-danimal-shop> yea i had an old compaq 1.4ghz p3 server and i switched to a 2.?ghz amd athlon xp2800 with an asus mobo and a little more ram, and it seems like night and day
[00:36:53] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i had the same exact issue!
[00:37:21] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop it does seem to me that AMD works better with this EMC from what I've read
[00:37:27] <aa-danimal-shop> i still pick an approx ipm and adjust till i like the chip
[00:37:57] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wished he had a feed override knob that worked
[00:38:04] <pfred1> I've run endmills til they snap and in the life of a tool things do change
[00:38:07] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i have a dell desktop on my lathe which is a p4, and it works awesome
[00:38:35] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I'm not saying Intel stuff cna't work just it seems generally the SMD stuff works better
[00:38:37] <aa-danimal-shop> but that's a servo machine
[00:38:39] <JT-Hardinge> I kind of prefer AMD and usually buy that when I can
[00:38:40] <pfred1> AMD even
[00:38:59] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge last i heard things aren't looking too good for AMD
[00:39:02] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, not arguing, i was actually suprised how well the dell worked
[00:39:13] <aa-danimal-shop> i was expecting crap
[00:39:29] <pfred1> I heard don't even try EMC on a P4
[00:39:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i've always had better luck with amd myself
[00:39:47] <JT-Hardinge> I ran my plasma on a P4 for about a year
[00:39:48] <skunkworks> p4's work just fine
[00:40:04] <pfred1> skunkworks someone in here once told me they didn't
[00:40:13] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, yea, i heard it wasnt the best, but i'm getting about 8k for latency
[00:40:23] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop that is great
[00:40:39] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i wouldnt kick it out of bed for eating cookies
[00:41:01] <pfred1> my P3 1Ghz is like 14000 and in stepperconf i set it to 20000 and it seems fine to me
[00:41:35] <aa-danimal-shop> granted it isnt a cheap dell, it was one from a local college. probably a bit different from a base model
[00:41:52] <pfred1> dell does treat their corporate customers better
[00:42:09] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, my p3 was about the same, but i tihnk i had other issues with that pc
[00:42:36] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop some PCs do not age gracefully ;)
[00:43:13] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, this one came from a lap at UCSD
[00:43:16] <pfred1> I think its the chinese electrolytic capacitors that are in them
[00:43:26] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[00:43:35] <JT-Hardinge> wow the Z will run 300ipm
[00:43:50] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge stand well back!
[00:43:51] <JT-Hardinge> it don't take long to go 11.7 inches
[00:44:03] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge with the hand on the e-stop
[00:44:16] <JT-Hardinge> but wait I have not hooked up the e-stop yet :/
[00:44:31] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge hold the power cord
[00:44:49] <JT-Hardinge> 240vac hardwired into the panel
[00:45:03] <pfred1> what no disconnect?
[00:45:26] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[00:45:32] <JT-Hardinge> I have a magic button that drops out the phase converter and nothing runs without 3-phase
[00:45:39] <JT-Hardinge> on a breaker
[00:45:46] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, my lathe only does 200ipm, and it's still scary over that distance
[00:46:04] <JT-Hardinge> this one is suppose to do 400ipm
[00:46:07] <DaViruz> hmm, is there a way to force touch to start with a given size and position?
[00:46:09] <JT-Hardinge> on Z
[00:46:14] <pfred1> I've been wondering if where I'm at i can't get a 3 phase drop fro mthe power ocmpany it is rural by me
[00:46:31] <JT-Hardinge> sure for a large barrel of money
[00:47:00] <pfred1> power companies don't charge you to run lines
[00:47:07] <pfred1> I don't even think they can
[00:47:19] <JT-Hardinge> I made a phase converter for about $50 with a free 10hp motor
[00:47:34] <JT-Hardinge> oh yes they can and do
[00:48:09] <pfred1> well my company is pretty decent its a cooperative
[00:48:28] <JT-Hardinge> to get 3-phase at our shop cost us $1500 and the 3-phase is only 50' away and we would have to sign a 10 year contract for min usage
[00:49:09] <JT-Hardinge> we are on a co-op too but they have to see a payback or you have to pay for the whole install
[00:49:24] <pfred1> yeah if its not out on the pole then theres no way
[00:49:24] <aa-danimal-shop> youch
[00:50:00] <JT-Hardinge> even if it is on the pole they want to make sure they get a payback for the expense of the transformers
[00:50:25] <aa-danimal-shop> do it yourself. you know what they say, it's always easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission
[00:50:38] <pfred1> yes true while I'm in a rural area I don't think anyone right by me would be doing anything 3 phase i didn't think about the transformer
[00:50:55] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, they're more than meets the eye
[00:51:15] <JT-Hardinge> here is my phase converter in the hardinge http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/~buildmaster/
[00:52:00] <pfred1> I haven't done anything with git yet I have cvsed though
[00:52:29] <tom3p> JT-Hardinge: maybe some other link? thats debs to emc & sim
[00:53:49] <pfred1> what is new and exciting in 2.4?
[00:54:59] <pfred1> this page should have a link to a changelog
[00:55:45] <pfred1> http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/~buildmaster/dists/hardy/v2.4_branch-rt/source/emc2_2.4.0~pre1-52-gff4f973_source.changes
[00:56:09] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm
[00:56:28] <JT-Hardinge> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/
[00:57:08] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge parts is parts pieces is pieces!
[00:57:30] <aa-danimal-shop> dammit my mill's coolant drains cant keep up with the new coolant pump lol
[00:57:43] <aa-danimal-shop> overflow city!
[00:58:52] <aa-danimal-shop> i need more lockline
[01:02:50] <pfred1> that is one toasty capacitor
[01:03:33] <pfred1> nice board though vintage 80s commercial industrial by the look of it
[01:04:12] <aa-danimal-shop> LOL thats the same board that's in mine, circa 1978'
[01:04:24] <tom3p> thx JT
[01:04:30] <aa-danimal-shop> glad they havent changed things much in the past 2 decades
[01:04:31] <pfred1> yeah late 70s would fit too
[01:04:51] <pfred1> I love boards like that my hey day
[01:05:13] <aa-danimal-shop> must be older than me lol
[01:05:37] <pfred1> I don't like all this surface mount stuff today
[01:09:47] <pfred1> are thouse all hall effect sensors on that board?
[01:09:55] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[01:10:08] <pfred1> pretty cool
[01:10:37] <pfred1> you ever fix it?
[01:11:17] <pfred1> * pfred1 knows how to do board rework
[01:11:32] <pfred1> and that is like a dream board to work on!
[01:11:37] <aa-danimal-shop> mine always worked. JT-Hardinge's is the one needing repair, but i tihnk he's working on it
[01:11:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i know he ordered the parts
[01:11:58] <pfred1> rookies always try to save the burnt out part god knows why
[01:12:20] <pfred1> when the only part worth anything is the board itself!
[01:14:45] <aa-danimal-shop> why not! i dont want to waste .005 cents on a resistor, dammit! :)
[01:15:32] <pfred1> its just funny I mean the part is shot but people try to pull it out without damaging it any more
[01:15:48] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:15:59] <pfred1> and pulling them out whole you are almost guaranteed to waste the board in the process
[01:16:19] <aa-danimal-shop> well i can understand it if they need to see the values of it so they can get a replacement
[01:16:31] <pfred1> like if you have to do an IC cut every leg on it and pull them one at a time
[01:16:49] <pfred1> its so much easier
[01:17:03] <aa-danimal-shop> i just use my desoldering iron
[01:17:09] <aa-danimal-shop> makes quick work of it
[01:17:11] <pfred1> that cap fitst thing I'd do would be to snip its legs
[01:18:14] <pfred1> you have a bench vacuum?
[01:18:19] <aa-danimal-shop> no
[01:18:44] <pfred1> yeah they're about a grand or so
[01:19:09] <aa-danimal-shop> i use the $10 one from radio shack with the bulb lol
[01:19:17] <aa-danimal-shop> works ok
[01:19:20] <pfred1> the syrenge one is better
[01:19:45] <pfred1> its al lI have at home and wick
[01:20:10] <pfred1> place I built boards at all we used was wick
[01:20:39] <pfred1> if you know what you're doing its all you really need
[01:22:34] <pfred1> part of building a board is making sure all the values face up to the right and top down orientation for reading part values
[01:22:51] <pfred1> unless the part is polarized and has to go in another way of course
[01:31:32] <pcw_home> danimal: Does your toolchanger encoder run on 24V?
[01:34:24] <tom3p> the slam technique: if the board is really old style ( no multi layer ), heat the joint on the bad part till shiny wet, then SLAM the pcb on the bench... solder falls outta the hole :)
[01:35:33] <Valen> I find you can blow it out with breath power on heavy copper boards
[01:36:02] <pcw_home> related to the snap technique where you hold the board in a vice an snap the edge...
[01:36:36] <pfred1> tom3p when I strip boards for parts i do that
[01:36:37] <renesis> tom3p: they do that during rework in china
[01:36:40] <pcw_home> Also multi layer work if you preheat the board to about 120 C
[01:36:42] <renesis> on PCB with SMT
[01:36:46] <renesis> because theyre retarded
[01:37:50] <renesis> amd yeah, wick is win if the solder flux isnt dried out and fallen off.
[01:37:56] <pfred1> tom3p but I heat a section of a board up over a solder pot first and the board doesn't fare very well during all of that
[01:38:12] <renesis> no way to tell when you buy it either, its not a brand by brand thing, its a how long has it been on a shelf thing
[01:38:17] <pfred1> renesis ah, first thing you do is flux the joint
[01:38:38] <renesis> never really need to if the wick is good
[01:38:38] <pfred1> my old boss would just touch it with some more solder
[01:38:46] <renesis> as soon as the wick heats up it wicks
[01:39:03] <renesis> well yeah thats helps a ton with heating up the work that needs to be wicked
[01:39:13] <Valen> this is on 3oz copper boards
[01:39:16] <renesis> but if the wick isnt sucky you dont even need a particularly well tinned tip
[01:39:22] <renesis> as long as you can get the wick to temp
[01:39:23] <tom3p> tin it, or flux it, or... dip the wick in flux for those hard water based solders
[01:40:04] <Valen> sorry 6oz
[01:40:12] <pcw_home> I knew someone who used an air gun, works wonderfully, except for the lead dust everwhere
[01:40:21] <Valen> dont inhale?
[01:40:46] <Valen> pcw like I said, I just blow it out with lung pressure, comes out in a nice slug
[01:41:27] <tom3p> and there's lo-temp solder, which lowers the melting point of the rest
[01:41:29] <JT-Hardinge> say goodnight Gracie
[01:41:43] <pcw_home> I do that some time on through hole part removal
[01:41:45] <pfred1> tom3p thats one way to rework SMT the weakeners
[01:41:49] <tom3p> oh george
[01:41:58] <Valen> hmmm those could be real handy
[01:42:16] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge heads in to veg out for a while
[01:42:23] <aa-danimal-shop> nite JT-Hardinge
[01:42:23] <JT-Hardinge> goodnight
[01:42:25] <pcw_home> 'nite jt
[01:42:31] <tom3p> gnite
[01:42:50] <pfred1> I really should optically isolate my input lines
[01:43:35] <pfred1> I have to see what I have laying around here
[01:43:49] <pcw_home> I really hate rework with RoHS solder
[01:44:09] <pfred1> I don't do RoHS
[01:44:11] <tom3p> i call that water cleaned solder, damn hard
[01:44:41] <pfred1> I steel wool it off new parts and retin them
[01:45:23] <pcw_home> We never do protos with RoHS but some times they need rework
[01:45:29] <pfred1> lead free is BS the military and aerospace are exempt from it
[01:45:37] <tom3p> haha
[01:45:51] <pfred1> well they are so yo uknow the crap is no good
[01:46:19] <tom3p> i just found it funny, the rulemakers fsck everyone else
[01:46:34] <pfred1> exactly what is going on
[01:47:12] <pcw_home> We've been doing it for four years now, no real problems except production people getting used to the process
[01:47:14] <pcw_home> its a real pain to use for hand soldering though
[01:47:25] <pfred1> I don't know what I'm going to do when I run out of the few pounds of 60/40 I have now
[01:47:37] <tom3p> ersin multi-core leaded :)
[01:48:20] <Jymmm> 60/40 is crap.... 63/37 is da good shit!
[01:48:29] <tom3p> hike
[01:49:12] <pfred1> i had to look at my roll I'm using kester 44 which is 60/40
[01:49:48] <Jymmm> roll? I thought you said you have pounds - as in plural?
[01:50:08] <pfred1> Jymmm I only use a roll at a time
[01:50:15] <Jymmm> wuss
[01:50:17] <Jymmm> lol
[01:50:55] <pfred1> when place i worked at went water based he gave me all the old stuff he had said if he didn't he knew himself he'd just start using it again
[01:51:42] <Jymmm> lol
[01:52:01] <pfred1> so I must have gotten about a dozen or so rolls then
[01:54:22] <pcw_home> lead solder around a RoHS facility is a real liability
[01:54:23] <pcw_home> one bar in the wave machine and there goes x thousands$ of solder
[01:55:09] <pfred1> our wave machine was only an 800 pound pot
[01:55:26] <pfred1> 13" wave
[01:55:59] <pfred1> I gotta say a molten lead wave is very fung shui!
[01:56:16] <pcw_home> pretty good sized
[01:56:36] <pfred1> we waxed that bitch every week the boss was quite proud of it
[01:56:56] <pfred1> we'd wash it and wax it
[01:57:32] <pfred1> which I thought was rather excessive but hey he was the boss right?
[01:58:09] <pfred1> and without it i guess we were just a bunch of flunkies sitting at benches with soldering irons
[02:54:48] <aa-danimal-shop> poop my manual lathe is locked up
[02:55:02] <aa-danimal-shop> looks to be the feed gear box
[02:55:06] <aa-danimal-shop> :(
[03:24:44] <BlackMoon> the math of smoking cigs, Machinist style: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=528653&postcount=53
[03:25:14] <BlackMoon> (Sorry, Thought the last few mathamatical compairsons where lol)
[03:26:05] <cradek> haha 7000 HF drill bits
[03:26:12] <BlackMoon> exactly lol.
[03:26:23] <cradek> man those suck
[03:26:25] <BlackMoon> Enough to maybe even last a year!
[03:26:49] <BlackMoon> I got a 115 set of.. cobalt coated bits from princess auto
[03:26:58] <BlackMoon> they.. arnt bad, At least, the ones that came sharpened properly
[03:27:17] <BlackMoon> iv found like 3 or 4 so far that where not ground properly on the tip and won't cut worth a damn, no relief
[03:27:44] <cradek> yeah some are just visibly wrong
[03:27:44] <BlackMoon> the rest, well, iv chewed through 3" of mild steel going through a few diffrent sizes of the same PA bits to make the hole bigger and bigger, ending in 3/4" :)
[03:28:17] <cradek> in that case I use one as big as the web on the 3/4 and then go for the 3/4
[03:28:31] <cradek> I've never had any luck step drilling like they say you should
[03:28:44] <cradek> you can end up with a hole nowhere close to where you started :-)
[03:29:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i hardly ever step drill unless i'm using a hand drill
[03:29:28] <cradek> if I don't smoke now, can I have $2555?
[03:29:33] <aa-danimal-shop> ha
[03:29:41] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i'm with cradek
[03:29:53] <BlackMoon> cradek: no but your credit card will give you at least $2000 now if you pay them $7/day insted of dumaruia
[03:29:54] <aa-danimal-shop> where's my non smoker's stimulus package dammit
[03:29:55] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: for huge holes, making a pilot the size of the web can be really helpful
[03:30:21] <BlackMoon> getting drills stuck while step drilling is a danger but otherwise it works fine for me
[03:30:25] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, yea, if you own drills that big, which i dont :) i think the biggest i have is 3/4"
[03:30:27] <BlackMoon> though I will admit that hole ended up nowhere near center
[03:30:28] <cradek> hell my credit card will give me $20000 but I'd have to be expecting to die tomorrow to use it
[03:30:46] <BlackMoon> Oh well, I plan to bore it out to 1 1/2" anyway :P
[03:30:55] <aa-danimal-shop> i need to buy some good silver and demming drills
[03:31:08] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: PA's set isent that bad
[03:31:21] <BlackMoon> Not that great but iv been peeling mild steel with em with ease
[03:31:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont have a princess auto around here
[03:31:35] <BlackMoon> end up with long ass continious swaff
[03:31:40] <BlackMoon> snaking up the flutes, its awsome
[03:31:46] <cradek> I've never heard of princess
[03:31:51] <aa-danimal-shop> me neither
[03:31:54] <BlackMoon> No peck drilling needed for deep holes if it all comes out as one long ribbon :)
[03:31:59] <aa-danimal-shop> sounds.... fruity
[03:32:01] <BlackMoon> its a canadian thing
[03:32:07] <BlackMoon> surplus that turned into cheap tools
[03:32:12] <BlackMoon> they have a weird policy
[03:32:20] <BlackMoon> 'No sale is final untill your satisifyed'
[03:32:27] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:32:28] <BlackMoon> Even if you come to think the tool is a peice of shit 2 years later
[03:32:33] <BlackMoon> return it, money back
[03:32:38] <aa-danimal-shop> nice
[03:32:39] <BlackMoon> seriously
[03:32:48] <aa-danimal-shop> home depot used to do that
[03:32:50] <BlackMoon> all you got left is the tool? no problem
[03:32:56] <BlackMoon> no recite? what was the phone number you gave us?
[03:33:02] <BlackMoon> no problem
[03:33:21] <BlackMoon> now some of it is still like $5 shit thats like wtf broken from day one
[03:33:36] <BlackMoon> but you kinda know a $5 plastic C clamp is gonna be a bit of a peice of shit.
[03:33:41] <aa-danimal-shop> hell even sears gave me a hard time last timei tried to exchange a few broken sockets
[03:33:47] <BlackMoon> and if you can be assed to return it, you can.
[03:34:04] <BlackMoon> they also get surplus shit from time to time
[03:34:11] <BlackMoon> and have an AWSOME hydrolics section
[03:34:15] <BlackMoon> and some pnumatics
[03:34:22] <aa-danimal-shop> nice
[03:34:24] <BlackMoon> and they sell 6hp gas motors for $90~115
[03:34:28] <BlackMoon> horzontal shaft
[03:34:32] <aa-danimal-shop> sweet
[03:34:36] <BlackMoon> with low oil shutdown.. one day i'll get around to using mine!
[03:34:54] <BlackMoon> they got like torqueverters and centrifugal clutchs and pullys
[03:35:00] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop last time Sears gave me a hard time I looked at the guy and said you know i could go break all of my Craftsman tools and return them?
[03:35:02] <BlackMoon> and chain sprockets with weldon hubs
[03:35:39] <BlackMoon> its like, farmer haven
[03:35:58] <BlackMoon> they got some bigger tools too, but the selection sucks and they arnt really all that good or cheap.
[03:36:06] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i wont buy crapsman anymore. they're just imported crap made out of powdered metal. i get better quality tools from autozone for cheaper
[03:36:25] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I buy almost exclusively used anymore
[03:36:36] <aa-danimal-shop> not that i make a practice of getting my tools there either, but in a jam, they work
[03:37:02] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i try to as well. i certainly didnt pay full price for my snap-on stuff
[03:37:04] <BlackMoon> pfred1: weird, I buy almost exclusively new :)
[03:37:08] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I'm at the point I don't *need* any more tools but I like to get some more every now and again
[03:37:38] <BlackMoon> My basic idea is buy cheap ass chinese shit untill it fails or im skilled enough using it to realise how and why its a peice of shit
[03:37:45] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop oh yeah I see snap-on cheap used i buy it
[03:37:51] <BlackMoon> then buy the high end stuff that really proforms
[03:37:55] <aa-danimal-shop> lots of mechanics getting laid off, so lots of cheap nice tools out there (not to capitalize on a bad thing)
[03:38:05] <BlackMoon> if I havent used it enough to make it fail or realise why it sucks, im not using it enough to warrent a better one.
[03:38:35] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, i usually just make a point to not support communists whenever possible
[03:38:42] <pfred1> BlackMoon yeah well when i can pick up a Porter Cable jigsaw for $5 who can argue?
[03:39:03] <BlackMoon> pfred1: I gave away my black and decker 2nd hand jigsaw for a chinese $20 one
[03:39:23] <pfred1> BlackMoon I have a Bosch so the porter cable is my beater
[03:39:26] <BlackMoon> thing used screwed up jigsaw blades that I could'nt find anywhere but home hardware with limited selection
[03:39:41] <BlackMoon> only had 2 speeds and the switch would sometimes slip or go intermittant
[03:39:49] <pfred1> BlackMoon the Bosch jigsaws are unreal
[03:39:50] <BlackMoon> it had no 'blade guide' and no orbital settings
[03:40:06] <BlackMoon> new one even has some stupid laser thingy, lols.
[03:40:20] <BlackMoon> lame, but at the blade guide roller seems to be an improvement at least
[03:40:27] <BlackMoon> and its fully variable speed
[03:40:28] <pfred1> BlackMoon i had a chinese jigsaw it was a bosch knock off it blew up in my hand
[03:40:51] <BlackMoon> pfred1: Yea epic motor failure is allways a potential problem, oh well
[03:40:57] <pfred1> BlackMoon yes the variable speed in the chinese knock off was just a slow timer fuse
[03:41:09] <BlackMoon> lol.
[03:41:24] <pfred1> BlackMoon no it was the variable speed slider it just laid down a layer of copper on the ceramic substrate
[03:41:37] <BlackMoon> pfred1: hahaha wtf, 1990 tech
[03:41:42] <pfred1> BlackMoon when the layer it laid down built enough to conduct boom!
[03:42:35] <pfred1> BlackMoon so I fixed that then the blade holder broke so I fixed that then the scintered gear in it broke then I tossed it
[03:42:47] <BlackMoon> lol at fixing it
[03:43:12] <BlackMoon> Yea, never spend an hour fixing a $20 chinese tool.. :P
[03:43:19] <BlackMoon> really is a losing battle
[03:43:37] <pfred1> BlackMoon keeps the chinese from getting another $20 of my money
[03:43:52] <BlackMoon> just $60 worth of your time
[03:44:06] <pfred1> I like fixing tools
[03:44:19] <BlackMoon> thats cool.
[03:44:35] <BlackMoon> I like fixing tools that are worth it and arnt gonna fail again really soon in worse and worse ways
[03:44:35] <pfred1> but not tools I paid full price for
[03:44:48] <BlackMoon> so like a good tool $100+ sure
[03:44:57] <BlackMoon> a $20 tool I say meh, and go and buy the $100 tool
[03:45:38] <BlackMoon> the non chinese tool thats not gonna fail and gonna be epicly better, now that I know exactly what to expect to fail in a shitty one, and whats an important feature and places to not have play in the mechinism
[03:45:52] <pfred1> BlackMoon I bought my radial arm saw for $20
[03:46:13] <BlackMoon> Those things scare me a little, but only because my grandpa nearly lost his hand to his recently.
[03:46:43] <pfred1> you need to have the right bladeo n them need a low rake
[03:47:08] <pfred1> you can't just run any circular saw blade on them
[03:47:14] <BlackMoon> you also need to keep your hands clear and use sticks :)
[03:47:34] <BlackMoon> Somewhere, something went wrong.. grandpa doesnt really like talking about it.
[03:47:47] <BlackMoon> still works in his shop though
[03:47:58] <BlackMoon> mangled hand and all (never fully recovered)
[03:48:50] <pfred1> I bought a foredom flex shaft tool with a case full of bits for $20 once too
[03:50:32] <pfred1> a swiss high speed air die grinder kit for $10
[03:51:16] <pfred1> it sounds like a jet taking off when I fire it up
[03:56:55] <pfred1> BlackMoon if you ever see one of these for 50 cents don't pass it up: http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5707/p9230022.jpg
[03:57:06] <pfred1> BlackMoon they're worth over $100
[03:57:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i made my dad a wood working chissel
[03:58:21] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop but is your name james Sawn ?
[03:58:30] <aa-danimal-shop> made it out of 440c and heat treated it, then sharpened it on my surface grinder
[03:58:57] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop put a nice hollow grind on it?
[03:59:03] <aa-danimal-shop> no, is yours?
[03:59:23] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop no but the guy who made that chisel was
[04:00:19] <aa-danimal-shop> the chissel i made my dad was worth about $1200 if you add up all the time i put into it lol
[04:01:00] <pfred1> unless they're very collectible I have to pass on buying any more chisels now myself
[04:02:02] <pfred1> I bought a nice small slick about 2 years ago paid $5 for it
[04:02:57] <pfred1> guy i bought it off of said after i paid him you know thats an antique right and I smiled
[04:03:16] <pfred1> its marked Cast Steel
[04:03:46] <pfred1> * pfred1 is into his caveman tool collection!
[04:07:53] <pfred1> here's a chinese tool I fixed the plunge lock screw stripped on it http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4999/p1010003t.jpg
[04:08:39] <pfred1> that router doesn't owe me a dime!
[04:51:45] <clytle374> soldering wires one little connectors sucks. bought magnifying lens today.
[04:57:44] <pfred1> clytle374 how old are you?
[04:58:21] <clytle374> 36 yesterday, should'd done it last week;)
[04:58:55] <pfred1> mmm I suppose connectors have been getitng smaller i need a magnifying glass for detail work since i got over 40
[04:59:21] <pfred1> thing is i think it just happens you know?
[04:59:46] <pfred1> clytle374 way I look at it is with optics i see better than I ever did
[05:00:24] <pfred1> clytle374 you tried reading glasses for detail work?
[05:00:50] <pfred1> clytle374 everyone needs a different power so try on a few different ones see what you like
[05:02:07] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 wins stepper-loot on ebay.
[05:02:20] <clytle374> I'm almost 20/20, MDR connectors
[05:02:31] <clytle374> Love ebay wins
[05:02:45] <pfred1> clytle374 yes but you don't solder 20 feet away do you?
[05:03:47] <clytle374> 2 foot is better than 10.
[05:04:10] <clytle374> the things are just small
[05:04:39] <pfred1> last time i had my eyes checked which was a long time ago the doc said I was 20/15 i asked him if that was bad he said no better than average and explained what 20/20 meant to me
[05:05:23] <pfred1> clytle374 reading glasses magnify things close up and yo ustill have stereo vision
[05:05:49] <clytle374> Yeah, it isn't the best description. Might have been the easier option.
[05:05:54] <pfred1> working in a magnifying glass can ruin depth perception but suit yourself
[05:06:43] <atmega> I use a magnifier/light for small stuff, works better than reading glasses for me.
[05:07:44] <pfred1> atmega for me it depends how small really small I've no choice and have to use a magnifier but other stuff reading glasses are enough
[05:08:31] <BlackMoon> pfred1: actualy most people get used to the depth preception scale quick
[05:08:34] <atmega> or I could just take out my contacts, but then I couldn't see crap except close up
[05:08:40] <BlackMoon> if you use stereo magnification
[05:09:05] <pfred1> BlackMoon I've worked with some people that get nausious trying to work in a magnifier
[05:09:20] <renesis> i had zero issues soldering under a stereo scope
[05:09:45] <renesis> thats a bit harder but you just have to get it so you can focus through it with both eyes
[05:09:51] <BlackMoon> heh
[05:09:58] <pfred1> renesis is a stereo scope one of those old time picture viewers?
[05:09:58] <BlackMoon> some people really don't like there eyes/ears fucked with
[05:09:59] <renesis> else yeh it gets weird
[05:10:09] <renesis> no like, dual microscope
[05:10:45] <BlackMoon> I thought stereo microscopes still used one lens at the end
[05:11:00] <renesis> but yeah magnifier could get weird if you tried to focus with two eyes but one is at a bad angle for viewing through the lens
[05:11:00] <BlackMoon> no wait I guess that doesnt make sense
[05:11:07] <renesis> yeah
[05:11:14] <pfred1> BlackMoon they could do it like binoculars with prisms
[05:11:29] <renesis> blackmoon: its like, one lens assembly as a dual eyepiece
[05:11:42] <renesis> but the pens piece is like, one big lens
[05:11:47] <BlackMoon> nah I wasent thinking, if you used one lense you don't have any left/right seperation
[05:11:53] <renesis> wider than normal on the ones ive used
[05:12:22] <renesis> you do but both eyes have to be able to see through it in focus from diff angles
[05:12:26] <pfred1> renesis I can just run down to Walmart and pick one of those up in housewares right?
[05:12:31] <renesis> these were like, rectangular
[05:12:37] <renesis> no i dont think so
[05:12:45] <pfred1> renesis yeah somehow me either
[05:13:10] <renesis> anyway you shouldnt buy anything at walmart
[05:13:41] <pfred1> renesis hey if you can't buy it at walmart you don't need it!
[05:13:44] <bill2or3> or go there, at all.
[05:13:52] <renesis> american manufacturing is dead because people demanded cheap shit from walmart
[05:14:20] <BlackMoon> And because american companys wanted ever more profit
[05:14:25] <pfred1> renesis american manufacturing is dead because america is in a post industrial phase now
[05:14:26] <renesis> they would rather have more shit than good shit
[05:14:37] <BlackMoon> so its like, $200 american drill or $20 walmart drill, take your pick
[05:14:46] <renesis> um yeah because we would rather have unemployed and imprisoned people and more stuff
[05:14:50] <renesis> than good stuff
[05:15:07] <BlackMoon> renesis: did'nt you know, prisions make jobs! And are very profitable!
[05:15:17] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon shakes head
[05:15:22] <renesis> were in a post industrialed phase because big interrnational corps know that money is way more important than american sustainability
[05:15:29] <pfred1> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=wackenhut&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=
[05:15:50] <BlackMoon> And by profitable I mean for the companys the US goverment gives your tax money to, to mistreat your population.
[05:16:11] <BlackMoon> Resulting in judges paid off to send more people to jail..
[05:16:17] <pfred1> renesis you can't argue with the bottom line
[05:16:25] <renesis> which is
[05:16:37] <pfred1> renesis low price gets it
[05:16:49] <renesis> oh that bottom line
[05:17:03] <renesis> well yes you shop at walmart so thats all that would make sense to you
[05:17:07] <pfred1> renesis I'm not going to pay you $2 for something I can get off BlackMoon for $1
[05:17:22] <renesis> i know you wouldnt
[05:17:26] <renesis> because you shop at walmart
[05:17:40] <renesis> see the dumb shit is you either have to pay another guy $3 to do QA on all the shit
[05:17:56] <renesis> or you accept that you company credibility will eventually go down the toilet
[05:18:00] <renesis> along with your job
[05:18:04] <renesis> ex: FADAL
[05:18:37] <renesis> salesguy: bean counters decided getting 40 from china and sending back 20 is cheaper than getting 25 from americans and sending back a few
[05:18:45] <renesis> but were gonna be okay!
[05:19:02] <renesis> couple years later, factory is closed
[05:19:13] <renesis> from an ME girl who used to work there:
[05:19:15] <pfred1> renesis they don't send anything back
[05:19:41] <renesis> yeah those china casting are shit they dont hold tolerance at all when you run the machine for extended cycles
[05:19:41] <BlackMoon> pfred1: ok they destory it, melt it down, and send it back as scrap metal for 1/10th the price
[05:19:44] <renesis> yeah
[05:19:49] <renesis> they have to pay to move it
[05:20:07] <renesis> and then not pay china for those
[05:20:33] <renesis> then possibly look for a new supplier because eventually china is like fuck you man these guys give a shit even less than you and theyre still paying us to keep our line moving
[05:20:50] <pfred1> fact is all manufacturing is on its way out anyone in this channel should see that coming
[05:21:16] <renesis> yes but were talking about why at the moment =)
[05:21:34] <pfred1> adapt or die that is the way of the Universe
[05:21:45] <renesis> hey whatever it works out for my, commercial lease prices are fucking bottoming!
[05:21:58] <renesis> like 25% vacancy on our local stuff, and getting worse
[05:22:06] <renesis> ill be able to get into my own shop in no time!
[05:22:17] <bill2or3> think of all the free time you'll have!
[05:22:39] <pfred1> bill2or3 how long does it take to starve?
[05:22:46] <renesis> i dont know what this free time word is you are making shit up these words dont go together free and time
[05:22:51] <bill2or3> heh
[05:23:05] <clytle374> renesis, the prices are dropping, don't be too sure of the bottom part
[05:23:27] <BlackMoon> renesis: but what will your shop do? :P
[05:23:57] <renesis> provide me and future CNC with a place to live
[05:24:11] <renesis> fuck residential leasing these prices are all jacked up
[05:24:15] <renesis> i dont even get any concrete
[05:24:22] <clytle374> Personally I'm thinking ag equipment after no one accepts the US dollar
[05:24:39] <renesis> fucking get like 2x the space for the same money
[05:24:46] <renesis> and id get concrete floors and 3 phase power
[05:26:33] <pfred1> renesis concrete floors are hard on the knees
[05:26:50] <renesis> hi thats what the mem foam in the loft place is for
[05:27:02] <BlackMoon> Wtf are you doing working on your knees pfred1 thats for hookers
[05:27:11] <renesis> or if you just mean walking in general, wat
[05:27:20] <renesis> get some fuckin shoes man
[05:27:45] <clytle374> I hear many are resorting to alternative part time work;)
[05:27:46] <BlackMoon> Any time you need kneepads, you may be involved in a shitty job
[05:27:52] <pfred1> renesis who's my pimp you or BlackMoon?
[05:28:11] <renesis> i got no time for bitches and hoes
[05:28:23] <renesis> shit almost every girls got sex skills
[05:28:30] <pfred1> renesis pimping is a growth industry!
[05:28:32] <renesis> i need like, other skills
[05:28:39] <renesis> im sure it is
[05:28:52] <bill2or3> I hear that pimping is easy.
[05:28:55] <pfred1> renesis I know it is I watched a documentary about it on TV once
[05:29:03] <renesis> the one with ice t?
[05:29:18] <pfred1> I htink it was mostly russians
[05:29:21] <Tecan> i cant seem to compile in rtai :(
[05:29:23] <atmega> but, can you apply Lean SixSigma principles to pimping?
[05:29:34] <pfred1> Tecan do you have a compiler?
[05:29:43] <Tecan> yeah im just missing some asm headers
[05:29:50] <clytle374> jewels
[05:29:57] <pfred1> Tecan oh OK
[05:29:59] <renesis> oh wtf
[05:30:01] <clytle374> wrong box
[05:30:06] <renesis> wtf is unit41 doing here
[05:30:19] <pfred1> Tecan you may need the dev package of something
[05:30:34] <Tecan> renesis i was here way before you. your a linux newb
[05:30:38] <renesis> i fucking hate getting emc working on non livecd stuff
[05:30:39] <pfred1> Tecan when i plan on compiling I get the dev packages of everything
[05:30:55] <renesis> pfft i was on freenode before it was called freenode
[05:31:05] <pfred1> renesis OPN forever!
[05:31:30] <renesis> and yeah i found a page on the wiki says all the depends im hoping that leads to some drama free light installations
[05:31:34] <renesis> pfred1: heheh
[05:31:56] <pfred1> renesis this place really has gone downhill since rob died
[05:31:59] <renesis> shit i was on freenode before i was called renesis
[05:32:08] <renesis> hahaha he was a dork
[05:32:15] <renesis> i used to troll slackware when i was bored
[05:32:26] <renesis> one time they banned all of socal.rr.com to get rid of me
[05:32:34] <pfred1> I donno I like sci-fi so we always had a lot to chat about
[05:32:41] <renesis> and someone pasted me the log like 10% of the channel dropped
[05:32:48] <renesis> but lilo would never ban me =)
[05:33:05] <renesis> he would just ask me nice to stay in my little channels and not bother the big ones
[05:33:18] <pfred1> only time rob would kick someone would be if they were spamming or something
[05:33:21] <renesis> im like, ok (WTF OLD MAN HAVE SOME SPINE), thanks
[05:34:01] <Tecan> im on ubuntu and rtai cant find asm/asm-offsets.h, duno what dev package that would be
[05:34:06] <pfred1> the whole point of IRC is to get users
[05:34:08] <renesis> yeah he was okay i guess, a lot of people had more real issues with him so i kinda didnt take sides
[05:34:31] <pfred1> Tecan you have the kernel headers installed?
[05:34:37] <renesis> i just thought it was funny he asked me nice like 3 or 4 times to stop bothering the big chans
[05:34:57] <pfred1> Tecan a while ago they separated the kernel headers from the kernel proper
[05:35:22] <clytle374> aren't headers just a substitute for the kernel source?
[05:35:25] <pfred1> renesis rob was cool strange but cool
[05:35:36] <pfred1> clytle374 nah they're two packages now
[05:35:56] <clytle374> I didn't see them on the kernel site
[05:37:01] <BlackMoon> you got ubunto. :(
[05:37:16] <pfred1> looks like they come with libc-dev now
[05:37:48] <Tecan> BlackMoon linux mint actually
[05:38:02] <pfred1> Tecan you have the dev package for libc?
[05:38:10] <renesis> haha i hate setting up basic build environments, every distro got diff set of random packages
[05:38:11] <Tecan> yes , it probably just cant find em
[05:38:21] <pfred1> Tecan I= then
[05:38:42] <clytle374> so you can get the kernel source at ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/ but not headers?
[05:39:12] <pfred1> clytle374 a long time ago it got to be too much of a pain for everything to be changing all the time there has to be some stability
[05:39:57] <pfred1> clytle374 so some of the kernel headers got moved out of the source tree
[05:40:22] <pfred1> that happened like back in the 2.0 days I think
[05:40:38] <clytle374> pfred1, okay, but good is the sources without the headers?
[05:40:44] <clytle374> I'm thinking of going back to Gentoo, at least there is no way to be missing the toolchain or sources
[05:41:02] <atmega> I have a set of SLS floppies you can install
[05:41:06] <pfred1> clytle374 what good are the sources without a compiler?
[05:41:38] <Tecan> aha found em included with the kernel
[05:41:47] <bill2or3> sls baybee.
[05:41:49] <pfred1> lots more than just hte kernel depends on those header files
[05:41:52] <clytle374> pfred1, which post are you refering to? So the headers arne't part of the kernel?
[05:42:15] <pfred1> clytle374 huh?
[05:43:19] <clytle374> pfred1, this question "what good are the sources without a compiler?"
[05:43:50] <pfred1> clytle374 oh
[05:44:11] <pfred1> clytle374 yes the kernel uses external headers to compile
[05:44:28] <pfred1> clytle374 I don't find it earth shattering
[05:45:55] <clytle374> well there as problem. Wonder why I'm getting running kernels at all. source against ubuntu 2.6.31-14 (what ever that is)
[05:46:00] <Tecan> how do i patch the kernel for hal mode ?
[05:46:26] <pfred1> clytle374 thats the beauty of it those headers are static
[05:47:11] <pfred1> Tecan patches are plain text and often contain instructions or at least clues at to how to use them if you read them
[05:47:35] <clytle374> for what versions?
[05:47:56] <pfred1> patch -p0 > somepatch is common
[05:48:20] <Tecan> yep found em in rtai-3.8/base/arch/x86_64
[05:48:22] <pfred1> or is it < I forget
[05:48:38] <clytle374> not x86_64
[05:48:47] <Tecan> my kernel numbers dont match though
[05:48:50] <clytle374> pathc -p1 < patch.name
[05:48:52] <Tecan> clytle why not ?
[05:49:04] <pfred1> clock skew detected!
[05:49:23] <Tecan> really ?
[05:49:23] <pfred1> thats always a fun one
[05:49:37] <Tecan> so 64 bit is buggy then ?
[05:50:11] <Tecan> i wonder if running it in virtualbox would work then
[05:50:18] <clytle374> maybe, the patches aren't arch specific anymore
[05:50:20] <clytle374> x86
[05:50:27] <pfred1> clytle374 I haven't actually applied a patch in about 10 years now
[05:51:06] <pfred1> clytle374 but i roughly remember them
[05:51:30] <pfred1> clytle374 did you know you can patch right out of usenet or emails? patch can handle nonsense like that?
[05:52:09] <clytle374> I always cut and paste them into text files
[05:52:51] <pfred1> I remembero nce whne X was borked i had to go in and edit some code file someone forgot to do the 0x for a hex number
[05:53:08] <pfred1> and man it was messed up! running X that is
[05:53:20] <pfred1> talk about clock skew
[05:54:14] <clytle374> I remember the first time I got 3d video and the modem to work at the same time.
[05:54:51] <pfred1> editing chat scripts to get online?
[05:55:05] <clytle374> dual processor celeron 366 over clocked to 550
[05:55:39] <clytle374> building the 3dfx drivers that didn't break the modem
[05:55:59] <pfred1> I hate mucking about with computers now must be why I like Ubuntu
[05:56:07] <numen> moin
[05:56:47] <pfred1> I got KDE version .4 to run on slackware 3.5
[05:57:01] <pfred1> that was no small task!
[05:57:49] <pfred1> because back then damned if i was going to run Redhat!
[05:58:32] <bill2or3> totally.
[05:58:41] <bill2or3> it's for jerks.
[05:58:49] <pfred1> bill2or3 by the time RH 7.0 came out I was a total redhat luser
[05:59:09] <clytle374> 7.0 was my last RH
[05:59:17] <pfred1> and i still say RH 7.2 was the best linux distro of all time
[05:59:34] <bill2or3> lollers
[05:59:43] <bill2or3> I'd quit caring what disto I used by then.
[05:59:50] <pfred1> right before they made up2date pay
[06:00:01] <clytle374> So where does one download the header files? and I don't mean some Ubuntu package.
[06:00:10] <pfred1> those were heady times to be running Linux
[06:00:20] <bill2or3> kernel.org I guess.
[06:00:29] <pfred1> clytle374 they should come with libc
[06:00:45] <pfred1> clytle374 well the dev package of libc
[06:01:00] <pfred1> they're in libc-dev
[06:01:22] <pfred1> linux-libc-dev
[06:02:26] <pfred1> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-kernel-headers
[06:03:01] <pfred1> bill2or3 today I'll run whatever is easiest
[06:03:14] <bill2or3> heh, I use ubuntu too.
[06:03:29] <pfred1> bill2or3 I ran suse for a long time but htey have no permanent upgrade path
[06:03:41] <bill2or3> when people give me shit I just say "Hey, I ran SLS, go screw youself!"
[06:03:44] <bill2or3> :-)
[06:04:06] <pfred1> oldest linux I ran was slackware 95
[06:04:28] <clytle374> NOT a distro package. Looks like most everything is in the kernel package.
[06:04:30] <bill2or3> a 386/40 is not fast.
[06:05:00] <atmega> it was at the time
[06:05:03] <clytle374> Not kernel.org
[06:05:10] <pfred1> clytle374 yeah it is just a couple of files that aren't
[06:05:37] <clytle374> Like the standard C libs
[06:06:24] <pfred1> there hey are the /usr/include/asm files http://packages.debian.org/etch-backports/i386/linux-libc-dev/filelist
[06:07:23] <pfred1> the stuff you ain't getitng from kernel.org
[06:12:58] <Tecan> ok im going to try emc through virtual box with a rt kernel lol
[06:16:35] <Tecan> awe cool its arch linux friendly
[06:44:00] <clytle374> pfred1, so you weren't speaking of the kernel-headers in /usr/src ?
[06:44:13] <clytle374> I thought that is what you were talking about
[06:45:25] <pfred1> clytle374 no
[06:45:46] <pfred1> clytle374 those are the headers that aren't separated out
[06:46:12] <pfred1> clytle374 but the kernel standing by itself won't compile
[06:46:19] <clytle374> well, this confused me to no end "Tecan you have the kernel headers installed?"
[06:46:49] <pfred1> clytle374 in the context of linux that means the external package
[06:47:26] <clytle374> of C, not the kernel
[06:47:37] <pfred1> clytle374 I spent too much time in #linux and often forget others haven't
[06:47:57] <pfred1> clytle374 no there are kernel header files that aren't in the /usr/src tree
[06:48:19] <clytle374> look like the standard C libs to me.
[06:48:22] <pfred1> clytle374 they have been removed so they aren't affected by kernel changes like the kernel source so often is
[06:48:54] <pfred1> clytle374 well they're specific to Linux
[06:49:21] <pfred1> but removed from it
[06:49:48] <pfred1> clytle374 there was a time when those files were in the /usr/src
[06:51:07] <clytle374> anyway, it was confusing. the kernel headers are just a substute for the entire source code when building drivers and are not needed if you have the kernel source
[06:51:27] <clytle374> Or the kernel would not build without them
[06:51:31] <pfred1> clytle374 no you cannot build a kernel without these files
[06:53:07] <pfred1> a file like /usr/include/asm/boot.h
[06:53:35] <pfred1> I just don't think you're going to get very far without it
[06:56:22] <clytle374> so which are they libc or kernel headers?
[06:56:59] <pfred1> they are kernel headers that have been moved out ofthe kernel source tree for reasons of stability
[06:57:24] <pfred1> well compatibility because too much else depends on them not changing
[06:58:24] <pfred1> it became a hassle to constantly port everything everytime the kernel changed so these were taken out
[06:59:25] <pfred1> developers can have some assurance that there don't get mucked with on a regular basis
[06:59:31] <clytle374> I understand the compatibility issue, just once you said they are libc and another kernel-headers. Most distros I've ran they are 2 different packages.
[07:00:06] <pfred1> they are part of the libc package now
[07:00:17] <pfred1> well a part
[07:00:33] <pfred1> you can have the linux kernel source and libc and still not have these
[07:01:02] <pfred1> because thats three different packages
[07:04:04] <pfred1> clytle374 do this: dpkg --search /usr/include/asm/boot.h
[07:05:55] <pfred1> clytle374 then this: dpkg --search /usr/include/libio.h
[07:08:20] <Tecan> aha rtai vulcano cvs has the latest packages, but its 32 bit only atm
[07:08:41] <Tecan> im just going to dual boot 2 linux's it makes sense atm
[07:08:58] <Tecan> bbl
[07:08:59] <pfred1> Tecan 64 bit is a thing of the past 32 is the wave of the future!
[07:10:07] <pfred1> clytle374 now apparently debian takes breaking up linux headers one step further than even I knew about
[07:10:17] <pfred1> dpkg --search /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.31-14/include/linux/bug.h
[07:10:56] <pfred1> clytle374 but really after 2.2 I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to the kernel anymore so maybe this is more common than i realize
[07:12:30] <clytle374> makes more sense. Ubuntu has been easy, but much more frustrating when I've need to work with source.
[07:13:06] <clytle374> Of course the 2 day install with Gentoo was a drawback
[07:13:19] <pfred1> I swore off compiling for a long time because it gets impossible to keep up wiht it all after a while
[07:13:45] <pfred1> gentoo manages builds for you though right?
[07:14:11] <clytle374> Not pulling many different packages for the 32bit and 64bit machines was great when having satellite ISP
[07:14:18] <clytle374> yeah, mostly automatice
[07:14:23] <clytle374> automatic
[07:14:44] <pfred1> clytle374 this is IRC I'm not going to print any of it
[07:15:08] <clytle374> lol
[07:15:32] <pfred1> when I was newer in linux compiling the latest and the greatest had its appeal now managed binaries are what I like
[07:15:52] <pfred1> to me synaptic is like a dream
[07:15:58] <pfred1> point click and shoot!
[07:16:30] <pfred1> one thing I've learned over the years is respect your distros package manager
[07:16:43] <clytle374> very truw
[07:16:46] <bill2or3> I think that's called getting old.
[07:16:46] <bill2or3> heh
[07:17:07] <clytle374> true as well
[07:17:13] <pfred1> bill2or3 this hamster got tired running on the treadmill
[07:17:17] <bill2or3> patching & recompiling obscure device driver modules isn't a fun time anymore.
[07:17:27] <bill2or3> kids will do that to you huh.
[07:18:22] <pfred1> I ran my last system literally until it blew up and i didn't mess around with it too much in between time either
[07:19:00] <bill2or3> I generally run ubuntu one version behind whatever's newest.
[07:19:04] <pfred1> over 6 years
[07:19:12] <bill2or3> and get a new machine like every 5 years or so.
[07:19:14] <pfred1> it was suse 8.2
[07:19:38] <pfred1> well when i went to it one morning and it was deader than a doornail it was time for a new machine
[07:21:08] <clytle374> This one for emc is the only new machine i've built in years
[07:21:14] <pfred1> I htink by the time it dropped dead the hardware was pushing 9 years old
[07:21:23] <clytle374> bought this netbook in july
[07:22:17] <pfred1> yeah I'm like a hermit crab once i have a system I am loathe to change my shell
[07:22:30] <pfred1> it takes smoke and flames to get me out!
[07:22:44] <bill2or3> totally.
[07:22:48] <bill2or3> right there with you
[07:23:00] <bill2or3> <-- he says, as he's at work upgrading webservers.
[07:23:08] <pfred1> I just don't like all the ocnfiguration I end up having to do because i like things just so
[07:23:16] <bill2or3> ...from debian sarge.
[07:23:29] <bill2or3> oof.
[07:23:37] <pfred1> ubuntu i drop in the disc and I'm pretty close though
[07:24:01] <pfred1> really I ran the live off the CD and was impressed
[07:24:13] <pfred1> if the boot was faster maybe I'd have kept it
[07:24:57] <pfred1> heck I don't even like to reboot Linux has broken me of that habit
[07:25:28] <clytle374> the cd is impressive, compared to knoppix a few years back
[07:25:37] <clytle374> rebooting is for windows
[07:25:53] <pfred1> clytle374 I was online surfing and everything just drop the disc in
[07:26:50] <pfred1> next thing i had to do after dropping the disc in was click the menu button and pick the app
[07:27:14] <bill2or3> 00:30:29 up 23 days, 12:39, 11 users, load average: 0.04, 0.06, 0.08
[07:27:26] <bill2or3> ^^ work desktop
[07:27:53] <pfred1> I was screwing around with networking the day before and rebooted to clear my routing table on this machne or somethng I'd screwed up
[07:28:20] <pfred1> ubuntu does have some strange network configuration stuff going on
[07:28:39] <bill2or3> yeah, sometimes it's "particular" about how it does things.
[07:28:46] <pfred1> the auto ethX stuff is weird I cna't say as i understand it all
[07:29:01] <pfred1> so rebooting was the simplest fix
[07:29:46] <clytle374> if I close the lid on this netbook to suspend it and wake it up unpluged, it wakes up then hibernates
[07:29:48] <pfred1> when I used ifconfig it'd like drop my connection and route to the wrong network and stuff it was bad
[07:31:26] <clytle374> automagic stuff isn't always so great
[07:31:34] <pfred1> I think the best uptime i ever had was 150 days
[07:32:14] <clytle374> I got up around there once, power outage ended it.
[07:32:24] <pfred1> yeah or CPU fans like to burn out
[07:32:32] <pfred1> something always happens
[07:32:45] <pfred1> or you have to move the machine
[07:33:35] <pfred1> I'll say this its not crashes that end epic uptimes for me
[07:33:52] <bill2or3> I had 500+ days once..
[07:34:05] <bill2or3> that I remember anyway, it was a webcam server in my garage.
[07:34:26] <bill2or3> but that kind of uptime just means you have lots of security holes. :-)
[07:34:39] <pfred1> yeah well still its nice it works
[07:34:53] <bill2or3> yeah.
[07:35:08] <pfred1> when my machine recently gave up the ghost i took the HDD out of it popped it into another machine and it booted up!
[07:35:26] <pfred1> it didn't run too nice but it ran
[07:35:41] <pfred1> ran well enough I could compile a kernel for the new machine
[07:36:08] <pfred1> and that blew me away
[07:36:28] <pfred1> because the old one was a kernel for AMD and the new system was intel
[07:36:30] <clytle374> okay, got the rtai kernel bult and working. emc patched and built, I can read from the encoder on the Mesa 7I48.
[07:36:32] <bill2or3> I think we're all just scarred from horrible win9x.
[07:37:07] <clytle374> I've had enought for the day, pfred1 thanks, I learned something.
[07:37:09] <pfred1> bill2or3 I donno I still help peole with like XP boxes and windows still sucks
[07:37:24] <clytle374> good night
[07:37:27] <pfred1> nite
[07:37:37] <bill2or3> XP sucks, but that's not where the scarring started. :-)
[07:37:48] <bill2or3> win9x was way worse.
[07:37:55] <pfred1> oh yeah it was win95 for me i thought there was something wrong with me
[07:38:01] <BlackMoon> pfred1: and do you think those people who screwed up thier XP boxes would honestly be able to get unix right? :P
[07:38:05] <pfred1> I was like wtf all these problems?
[07:38:28] <pfred1> BlackMoon evne if windows worked perfectly I find it inferior
[07:38:44] <pfred1> the UI the tool set the whole thing is mickey mouse to me
[07:39:11] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon shrugs
[07:39:11] <pfred1> its like computing for toddlers or something
[07:39:18] <BlackMoon> does what I ask of it.
[07:39:47] <pfred1> me too it stays the hell off my systems
[07:39:57] <BlackMoon> haha
[07:40:15] <BlackMoon> im too bored for windows trolling today.
[07:40:28] <BlackMoon> Tomarrow good for you?
[07:40:35] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 pencils you in.
[07:40:46] <bill2or3> or not, run whatever works.
[07:40:57] <pfred1> hey run windows the more the merrier then the crackers will ignore Linux
[07:41:23] <pfred1> becausei sure as hell don't wantto be running all kinds of virus programs!
[07:41:36] <BlackMoon> Security by obscurity, yadayada.
[07:41:39] <pfred1> i mean its not all microsofts fault windows sucks today
[07:41:59] <pfred1> they got a big target on their backs with that OS
[07:42:26] <pfred1> if it was 50 50 linux windows I think Linux would suffer heavily
[07:44:45] <pfred1> BlackMoon Windows may rule the desktop but Linux is #1 everywhere else where it really matters http://www.top500.org/stats/list/34/os
[07:45:14] <bill2or3> you mean on my desk, I assume.
[07:45:15] <bill2or3> heh
[07:45:56] <BlackMoon> that page did'nt load. hahah
[07:46:01] <Jymmm> With virtualization, it really doens't matter.... install nix, and toss on an XP VM.
[07:46:19] <BlackMoon> I hate failternets
[07:47:15] <BlackMoon> And by did'nt load I mean all I see is the pages logo and some dumb ad banner and thats it
[07:47:17] <BlackMoon> rest does not display
[07:47:22] <pfred1> BlackMoon must be a cookie thing
[07:47:37] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon shrugs
[07:47:55] <pfred1> BlackMoon or microsoft doesn't want you to know the uglytruth!
[07:48:16] <pfred1> BlackMoon on that page they're 1% and Linux is like 90%
[07:50:00] <pfred1> If it's really a supercomputer, how come the bullets don't bounce off when I shoot it ?
[07:50:52] <BlackMoon> pfred1: of course, nobody can afford 200 windows lisences after buying all that hardware. :P
[07:51:10] <pfred1> BlackMoon that must be the reason
[10:32:49] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:40:18] <alex_joni> hi
[11:41:31] <jthornton> morning
[11:57:28] <i_tarzan> m
[12:00:06] <i_tarzan> i_tarzan is now known as robotito
[12:54:55] <JT-Dev> if I remove all the PID and FF from the ini then run the axis I should be able to tune the PID in the drive itself correct?
[12:58:52] <MrSunshine_> about an hour at the milling machine jogging and facing the damn thing its straight as an arrow =)
[12:59:01] <MrSunshine_> and some crude methods of hitting the damn piece to get it straight :P
[12:59:28] <MrSunshine_> now only three holes need to be drilled and im good to go with putting on the first motor mount =)
[12:59:51] <MrSunshine_> tho, its totaly off spec so will have to shim it up etc everywhere but hell, temprorary solution until i get to casting a new one :P
[13:08:21] <MrSunshine_> seems my mill is a thousands of a mm high on one side :/
[13:08:36] <MrSunshine_> i wish there wasnt a "tilt" thingie on it :(
[13:08:42] <frallzor> no issues
[13:08:51] <frallzor> do as ppl do, mill the table flat
[13:08:56] <MrSunshine_> frallzor, yes issues as it leaves groves in the milling :P
[13:08:58] <frallzor> = no issues
[13:09:00] <MrSunshine_> frallzor, haha =)
[13:09:12] <MrSunshine_> then i have to be sure the damn thing cant move! =)
[13:09:37] <MrSunshine_> tac weld it or something :P
[13:34:06] <anonimasu> does anyone have the country code for mesa?
[13:34:28] <anonimasu> they only have the area code.. and there seems to be the same address in canada... too
[13:49:20] <Jymmm> 1+
[13:50:12] <Jymmm> its all N. America
[13:51:23] <Jymmm> and I doubt that Canada has 510 area code
[13:52:05] <Jymmm> http://www.mesanet.com/index.html
[14:01:44] <alex_joni> http://www.yoopersteez.com/images/blog/906/area-codes.gif
[14:06:28] <Jymmm> wheres anonimasu from?
[14:07:24] <Jymmm> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/dialingcodes.html?p1=136&p2=283&number=510-223-9272
[14:17:45] <tom3p> firefox is now minefield? (youtube been bitchin for a month about upgrading, and i ended up with what i thought was ffox3.7)
[14:23:13] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, Sweden or something
[14:24:23] <Jymmm> Ok, same as UK... http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/dialingcodes.html?p1=239&p2=283&number=510-223-9272
[14:24:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Can a FET act as a dimmer for LED's?
[14:25:12] <SWPadnos> um. no, not really
[14:25:28] <Jymmm> just a switch huh?
[14:25:46] <SWPadnos> pretty much - they get hot if you don't turn them on fully
[14:26:05] <Jymmm> ah. Any alternative to do both?
[14:26:42] <SWPadnos> I mean it's possible, but if you're looking for something simple, a resistor is simpler (especially considering that you need several resistors to use a transistor as an amplifier)
[14:26:49] <SWPadnos> yeah, a FET and a resistor
[14:27:11] <Jymmm> Heh, I meant a digital switch/dimmer
[14:27:45] <SWPadnos> well, like all questions, you get a better answer the better you ask the question
[14:28:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: That's the question, really.
[14:28:42] <SWPadnos> what I mean is that you have to define the problem better
[14:28:59] <SWPadnos> are you looking for two brightness settings or a continuous range?
[14:29:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Digital on/off/dim of this http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Cluster-PCB-3mm-5mm-5x12-WHITE-FAST-USA-SHIPPER_W0QQitemZ260359756949QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3c9ea69c95#shId
[14:29:24] <SWPadnos> something that works for any LED or just a certain range of forward drops (and currents)
[14:31:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: did you get the link?
[14:31:24] <SWPadnos> yep. it doesn't say how they're wired
[14:31:33] <Guest13534> Guest13534 is now known as nmen
[14:31:41] <SWPadnos> it's obvious that each column is a series setup of 1 resistor and several LEDs
[14:31:53] <SWPadnos> but it doesn't tell how the columns are connected (if at all)
[14:32:10] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[14:32:23] <tom3p> pwm the gate. the pic books talk about led light dimmers using pwm as the 'hello world' program for the built in pwm gen
[14:32:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: parallel to Vin
[14:32:40] <atmega> anyone know what kernel is in the 8.0.4 live cd?
[14:32:44] <SWPadnos> ok, so you'd be dimming the entire array as one light
[14:32:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: yep
[14:32:53] <SWPadnos> yes, as tom3p said, use PWM
[14:33:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: But can I use PWM on a FET?
[14:33:14] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:33:17] <Jymmm> ok
[14:34:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: That's what I asked in the first place =)
[14:34:10] <SWPadnos> well, it's not really dimming :)
[14:34:14] <SWPadnos> it just looks that way
[14:34:42] <anonimasu> Jymmm: from sweden
[14:34:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok Mr Smarty Pants... You're typical $3 run of the mill dimmer on your wall uses what?
[14:35:01] <frallzor> sweden ftw!
[14:35:07] <SWPadnos> a Triac
[14:35:20] <Jymmm> anonimasu: Ok, that link should work for you to call Mesa... 00 1 510 xxx xxxx
[14:35:21] <tom3p> triac requires ac
[14:35:33] <SWPadnos> yes, we were getting there :)
[14:35:53] <Jymmm> Bah hum bug
[14:36:48] <anonimasu> Jymmm: thanks!
[14:37:41] <Jymmm> anonimasu: Specifically 00-1-510-223-9272
[14:38:42] <Jymmm> Heh, I should setup an asterisks server with a web interface
[14:40:29] <Jymmm> But I want the IVR voice to sound like the operators from the 50's with the nasal
[14:40:52] <robotito> asterisks needs more that just server
[14:41:03] <Jymmm> ?
[14:41:49] <Jymmm> robotito: ?
[14:42:48] <Jymmm> > 0
[14:43:00] <Jymmm> > Operator, may I help you?
[14:43:09] <Jymmm> > Call Alex
[14:43:22] <Jymmm> >Opeator: One moment please...
[14:44:13] <Jymmm> >( figures out my location, calls me. looks up Alex, calls him. connects both lines)
[14:46:12] <Jymmm> would be great across xmmp
[14:49:39] <Jymmm> When doing PWM, is it common place for the on/off times to be the same, or is there any benefit to having shorter on times and longer off times?
[14:50:49] <Jymmm> tom3p: btw, thanks.
[14:53:14] <tom3p> in pwm the on/off is not the same, the on goes from small to large thru a fixed period, thats how the dimming works, 1 out of 255 (say) is dim, and 255 out of 255 is bright
[14:54:01] <tom3p> the ratio on/(on+off) is called duty cycle
[14:54:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Check these out.... 55,000mcd http://cgi.ebay.com/50p-5mm-WHITE-LED-LAMP-LIGHT-55-000mcd-FREE-RESISTORS_W0QQitemZ350325631297QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item519108e941
[14:56:16] <Jymmm> tom3p: So it's nothing like a simple 500ms square wave?
[14:56:55] <Jymmm> 500ms =2, 250ms=4, 125ms=8, etc
[14:58:20] <mozmck> pwm has the same base frequency, but the Pulse Width is Modulated :)
[15:00:07] <robotito> Jymmm, asterisks force you to have a phone number provider
[15:00:30] <Jymmm> robotito: Well, specifically SIP credentials, which I have.
[15:00:38] <robotito> for free?
[15:00:43] <Jymmm> Yes
[15:01:03] <robotito> good ones are paid
[15:01:15] <Jymmm> I can call anywhere on the planet for free. If I go of the planet it's like $5/minute
[15:01:22] <Jymmm> s/of/off/
[15:01:33] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, a square wave is by definition 50% duty cycle. What you get by changing the frequency is a different blink rate
[15:01:54] <tom3p> the pulse width is the on time in the period, the frequency is how many periods per second. to dim, the frequency isnt too important ( faster than 30fps is good enuf for film ) but the D% (duty cycle or ration of on/period ) is very important.
[15:01:57] <SWPadnos> very fast blinking will look like half brightness, slow blinking will look like slow blinking
[15:02:16] <robotito> Jymmm, cell, some incoming calls costs like skype
[15:02:37] <robotito> skype costs too
[15:02:43] <tom3p> if the 'blink ratio' ratio is 50 % at 60hz or 6mhz, you dont >see< any diff
[15:02:45] <Jymmm> robotito: No, just satellite phones cost $5/minutes
[15:03:14] <robotito> yes skype store does
[15:03:16] <SWPadnos> tom3p, right - it either looks like half brightness or a blinking light :)
[15:03:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: right, just like 60Hz floresent lights
[15:03:37] <SWPadnos> sort of
[15:03:41] <tom3p> is it half full or half empty moe?
[15:03:49] <SWPadnos> or like the "message waiting" indicator on a phone, if it's really slow ;)
[15:04:21] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, http://cgi.ebay.com/24-LED-Module-PCB-pack-of-10-unique-and-new-design_W0QQitemZ380212706263QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5886717bd7
[15:04:28] <pcw_home> Ive heard that low frequency blinking looks brighter than high (Eye peaks detects somewhat)
[15:04:52] <SWPadnos> yes, but I think the max current is somewhat reduced due to heating
[15:05:09] <SWPadnos> (peak heat is higher with a long period)
[15:05:43] <tom3p> never played with F, but the major effect of dim is due to D%, not F
[15:05:56] <Jymmm> ok, good to know
[15:06:19] <pcw_home> I hate blinky tail lights. they make my eyes buzz...
[15:06:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I kinda like the the 1st one, 2"x4" and 72 led's
[15:06:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:07:41] <Jymmm> Eh, I'll pull out the arduino and play with the on/off times. sota drove me batty when I did the first time - annoying as hell.
[15:07:44] <SWPadnos> the second one looks more like a single light bulb from a distance, since it's round
[15:08:16] <SWPadnos> for experimentation purposes, just set the PWM to 8 bit mode, which should be something in the couple kHz range
[15:08:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I want to use multiple boards on a grid pattern
[15:08:21] <SWPadnos> and vary the duty cycle
[15:08:39] <SWPadnos> ok, then the rectangle is better, but note that there will be voids where the resistors are
[15:09:08] <SWPadnos> you can only do 2xsomething, if you arrange them with the LEDs next to each other (resistors on the outside)
[15:09:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: As opposed to the four "corners" of the ROUND pcb ? =)
[15:10:12] <SWPadnos> no, I'm not comparing them. just pointing out an issue with that particular rectangular board
[15:10:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, but for $10 for two PCBs, I can play with it a bit.
[15:10:46] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:11:22] <SWPadnos> that round one is available in 30-packs (plus 10 free!!!) for about $25, so it looked good for standalone applications
[15:11:26] <Jymmm> The pic shows 4x12, but it's capable of 5x12, I suspect with the resistors standing on end - can't tell from the photo
[15:12:32] <Jymmm> 5x12 * 50,000mcd LEDs == 3,600,000mcd
[15:12:51] <Jymmm> Muhahahaha
[15:13:17] <tom3p> mega-milli candles
[15:13:23] <SWPadnos> probably not
[15:13:51] <SWPadnos> the holes for the resistor are likely shorted together, so you can use resistors bent to different lengths
[15:14:28] <SWPadnos> 3 holes shorted on top, 3 on the bottom, or something like that (otherwise you'd need extra jumper wires if you used a standing resistor)
[15:15:40] <Jymmm> Like I said, I really can't tell from the photos
[15:16:59] <SWPadnos> that board isn't really great for array use anyway, since the borders are so wide
[15:17:06] <SWPadnos> you'd have to do some trimming
[15:18:41] <Jymmm> It looks like: (+)---o o---o o---o o---o o-o o-o o-o o----(-)
[15:19:31] <tom3p> arduino pwm tutor (they use the misnamed 'analog out' which is really digital & pwm ) http://www.tigoe.net/pcomp/code/input-output/analog-output
[15:22:30] <Jymmm> Many of these LEDs say you can use 100ma for like 10ms, I'd REALLY like to try that, but I'm not sure how to drive 100ma to an led?!
[15:22:55] <Jymmm> jsut changing the current limiting resistor?
[15:22:57] <SWPadnos> put the right resistor and a FET in series with it
[15:23:02] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:23:02] <Jymmm> ok
[15:24:13] <Jymmm> I wonder how much total power draw there is between them
[15:24:35] <Jymmm> 100ma @ 10ms vs 20ma@ 100%
[15:24:53] <tom3p> boy, ffox 3.7 blows, its hung at least 6x, comes with NO search engine ( i thought my install of google hung, it, but 2 more search engines & still hangs )
[15:25:20] <Jymmm> tom3p: install google??? huh?
[15:25:44] <Jymmm> tom3p: Mozilla has google by default and google pays mozilla for that
[15:27:25] <tlab> search engine is probably the same as the url bar
[15:27:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Besides, I'm not sure what you could do to a PCB layout to get 100% effective coverage
[15:27:33] <tlab> like google chrome
[15:27:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Still have to mount/conect to the PCB
[15:28:20] <tom3p> theres a search field and it said 'no engines installed' and offered to install one, and i installed google
[15:28:22] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, you have to be careful about spacing of the LEDs, and you can use semi-interlocking shapes to make an extendable array
[15:28:36] <tom3p> i'll try sdearch from url bar but i usually kill that option
[15:28:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ah
[15:28:50] <Jymmm> tom3p: that's strange.
[15:29:00] <Jymmm> tom3p: that's strange that you would even need to
[15:29:22] <Jymmm> tom3p: did you compile from source?
[15:29:22] <tom3p> maybe thats why they call it minefield
[15:30:42] <SWPadnos> are you sure you're talking about 3.7? (rather than 3.6)
[15:31:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Maybe I can etch my own design, they didn't even bother putting mounting holes in all four corners, just bottom two.
[15:33:04] <tom3p> sorry it hangs so much i cant reply in a reasonable time
[15:33:15] <SWPadnos> huh
[15:33:32] <SWPadnos> if it's actually called 3.7, it's either a development build or a trojan
[15:33:44] <SWPadnos> 3.6 is the latest available on the FF site
[15:34:20] <tom3p> cant get version number, cant get site where i got the repositoty to add to sources.list cant find the pgp key... best goto opera
[15:34:55] <SWPadnos> um. you have other issues with that computer if you can't look at sources
[15:35:13] <SWPadnos> /etc/sources.list or a directory of similar name
[15:35:17] <tom3p> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.3a3pre) Gecko/20100308 Ubuntu/8.04 (hardy) Minefield/3.7a3pre
[15:35:30] <SWPadnos> 3.7a3pre - it's pre-alpha
[15:35:42] <SWPadnos> I'd uninstall and use a stable released version
[15:35:55] <tom3p> i can look at /etc/sources, i cant find the website where i found the info becuz the browser is borqd
[15:35:56] <SWPadnos> well, pre-alpha-3
[15:36:08] <Jymmm> Those that live on the cutting edge WILL get cut!
[15:36:16] <SWPadnos> what OS and version?
[15:36:50] <tom3p> ubuntu hardy 8.04 from live cd
[15:37:03] <SWPadnos> oh - did you install by some means other than apt (or synaptic or the other UIs)?
[15:37:11] <tom3p> and i didnt know it was edge, ( i do see 3.8 is out)
[15:37:23] <SWPadnos> no, 3.6 is out from what I saw
[15:37:26] <Jymmm> No, it's not. 3.6 is released
[15:37:37] <Jymmm> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/
[15:37:46] <Jymmm> Those are the latest-trunk
[15:37:47] <tom3p> i installed by adding 2 lines to the sources.list, then apt update, then got pgp key, then used synaptic to install
[15:37:56] <SWPadnos> ok, great
[15:38:09] <SWPadnos> run synaptic, search for firefox, uninstall what you have
[15:38:10] <Jymmm> tom3p: Why did you add anything to the sources list at all?
[15:38:19] <tom3p> well its going into the trash
[15:38:31] <SWPadnos> then go to sources and remove the extra ones (there aren't many, you should be able to tell which are firefox related)
[15:38:43] <SWPadnos> then reload package information, and reinstall firecox
[15:38:45] <SWPadnos> err
[15:38:46] <SWPadnos> fox
[15:38:56] <tom3p> Jymmm: yes, i added the debs urls to the sources.list
[15:39:05] <Jymmm> tom3p: you shouldn't need to
[15:39:15] <tom3p> yes i can remove the lines, i always add them with a comment on wtf dod i do this for?
[15:39:18] <SWPadnos> or, you may be able to do that in one fell swoop, by somehow forcing a particular version (may be in the right-click menu)
[15:39:21] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[15:39:56] <tom3p> ok, will kill lines in src.list and remove ffox3.7 using synaptic
[15:40:10] <Jymmm> tom3p: btw, where did you see 3.8 ?
[15:40:58] <SWPadnos> there's some way to list all available versions, you may be able to tell synaptic to just install a prior version (which should automagically remove the later one)
[15:41:10] <Jymmm> There is only 3.7a2-candidates http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/
[15:41:49] <SWPadnos> the nightly list showed a3pre
[15:42:02] <SWPadnos> the build date should be a clue though, it's today
[15:42:08] <Jymmm> still no 3.8
[15:42:36] <SWPadnos> no. they're using the even/odd version scheme, so 3.7 will become 3.8 when released
[15:43:36] <tom3p> Synaptic lists it as firefox-3.7 3.7~a3~hg20100308r39057+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~hardy
[15:43:36] <tom3p> the sources.list shows i added
[15:43:36] <tom3p> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu hardy main
[15:43:36] <tom3p> and another similar for source
[15:44:12] <SWPadnos> right. that's definitely for people who want to be on the edge with daily builds
[15:44:22] <SWPadnos> you'd get update notifications every day
[15:45:04] <tom3p> whats ppa?
[15:45:12] <SWPadnos> personal package archive
[15:45:29] <tom3p> very informative :)
[15:45:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:46:32] <Jymmm> tom3p: did you bother to search synaptic BEFORE adding anything to sources list?
[15:47:06] <tom3p> yes
[15:47:12] <Jymmm> tom3p: and?
[15:47:29] <SWPadnos> 3.6 won't be available for 8.04 from the standard repos,AFAIK
[15:47:53] <tom3p> i hated 3.5 ( dont rememebr why), so looked at web for news, saw 3.7 and even refs to 3.8, so figured 3.7 ( one step back) seemed reasonable to try
[15:47:54] <SWPadnos> there's probably some other repo that has later versions though
[15:48:34] <tom3p> 3.5 wouldnt really clean itself up, history and other things were still easily visible, and would not erase
[15:49:14] <SWPadnos> oh. I wonder if you installed "firefox" instead of "firefox-3.6"
[15:49:15] <Jymmm> tom3p: So, trying to hide the pr0n downloads, huh?
[15:49:16] <tom3p> is 3.6 a reasonable version to try?
[15:49:34] <SWPadnos> it looks like that repo is what you want, according to this page: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-firefox-3-6-in-ubuntu-karmicjauntyintrepidhardy.html
[15:49:42] <tom3p> Jymmm: trying to hide crap from myself, i'm too dang clever
[15:50:11] <SWPadnos> you just need to install firefox-3.6 instead of "whatever the latest version of firefox is)
[15:50:15] <SWPadnos> s/)/"/
[15:50:17] <Jymmm> tom3p: then enable private browing
[15:50:25] <Jymmm> browsing
[15:51:17] <tom3p> hah! thats the site where i started! (ubuntugeek)
[15:51:35] <tom3p> thx
[15:51:47] <SWPadnos> right - they say to install a package called "firefox-3.6", rather than "firefox"
[15:52:28] <tom3p> (thank god i kept opera and didnt kill the lines in sources.list... well letsee if moz3.6 borqs same way )
[15:52:55] <SWPadnos> you don't need a browser to install/uninstall software ...
[15:53:13] <Jymmm> * Jymmm thinks tom3p just likes to play
[15:53:43] <tom3p> i need the browser for advice
[15:53:58] <Jymmm> O_o
[15:54:20] <tom3p> i come limping in here when i get really busted ;)
[15:54:26] <Jymmm> tom3p: I'll get you advice: dont fsck with the the sources lists =)
[15:54:31] <tom3p> haha
[15:54:33] <tom3p> ok
[15:55:05] <Jymmm> tom3p: and install a real irc client to three
[15:55:10] <Jymmm> s/to/or/
[15:55:31] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[15:56:58] <tom3p> Namoroka? ffox3.6 is Namoroka? hmmmph
[15:59:44] <Jymmm> If you hate java... http://mobile.weather.gov/ you get the radar loop as an animated gif instead
[16:21:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: What do you think of these? http://cgi.ebay.com/50p-5mm-WHITE-LED-LAMP-LIGHT-55-000mcd-FREE-RESISTORS_W0QQitemZ350325631297QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item519108e941
[16:23:10] <tom3p> Jymmm: ffox 3.6 ok, tbird ok, got a suggestion for irc client ( apparently everyone sees weird chars from my pidgin client )
[16:23:55] <Jymmm> tom3p: Are you in the US ?
[16:24:00] <Jymmm> tom3p: and use US-English as the default?
[16:24:29] <tom3p> yep chicago anyway
[16:24:43] <Jymmm> LOL, well I GUESS that's close enough ;)
[16:25:42] <Jymmm> There's xchat http://xchat.org/ :: sudo apt-get install xchat
[16:26:56] <tom3p> ok, thats what i read too thx
[16:28:46] <Jymmm> tom3p: There are shell based irc clients too, but I suspect that's not what you're looking for.
[16:32:13] <tom3p> ok, trying xchat now
[16:34:10] <tom3p_> ello ello ello, whats all this then? any weird chars in this msg?)
[16:34:29] <Jymmm> other than you can't spell 'H'ello
[16:34:40] <tom3p_> ah ah ah :)
[16:34:51] <tom3p_> thx again
[16:35:00] <Jymmm> np
[16:47:14] <piasdom> i'm tyring to cut two pockets on the yaxis 1.4 apart... do i copy and paste the file(http://pastebin.ca/1828690) and add the g54 1.4 offset ?
[17:18:29] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[18:03:26] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[18:23:09] <tom3p> piasdom, maybe like this ( runs on mine but i chgd from inch to mm despite backwards note in file ) http://pastebin.ca/1828839
[18:39:21] <piasdom> tom3p; cool....Thanks! i need to cut the two pockets and while i was at it learn this offset thingie :) i got something to study .. thanks again
[18:43:09] <tom3p> this is cleaner, but still not parametric http://pastebin.ca/1828861
[18:44:05] <tom3p> did you use some tool to make the code?
[18:54:44] <tom3p> maybe G10 L3 can be for the pallet table ;) do pallet changers have tables like too changers?
[18:54:57] <tom3p> i've used one ATC with a 'wrist' that could change pallets and tools so there was just one table
[18:55:09] <tom3p> never used any other
[18:58:13] <sealive> hi ftom germany
[18:59:09] <sealive> hi from germany! i managt to install the emc on a low level PC is this uptade from 2.3.4 to the new version highly recomendet?
[18:59:33] <JT-Work> 2.3.5?
[18:59:50] <sealive> this is the latest version
[19:00:06] <sealive> i only have xbuntu hardy runniing
[19:00:12] <JT-Work> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[19:00:13] <SWPadnos> updates are usually recommended only when there's a bugfix that fixes something you have a problem with, or when there's a feature you need in the new version
[19:01:03] <sealive> i tryd running for the firdt tiime on the mashine itself L297 controlling with 2A stepper
[19:02:38] <sealive> it seams that the configuration is a litle complicated
[19:03:20] <sealive> the axes move by stepwolf testing 1 step every 2sec
[19:04:11] <sealive> i tryd also standard it moved only one step the numbers of the axes are running
[19:04:24] <sealive> but the mashine does nothing
[19:05:30] <sealive> can i delead the config on the deaktop easy by click ent delete ?
[19:05:43] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:06:06] <SWPadnos> you can also create as many configs as you like - they're just files in a directory
[19:06:37] <sealive> teyd also F!-> F2 -> f3 move axis presst + but only one step
[19:07:12] <sealive> thanks
[19:07:18] <SWPadnos> you may have some of the pins connected wrong, or it's also possible that there's a problem with your driver hardware ...
[19:08:09] <sealive> putet back the win XP with NC-FRS on it moving fine
[19:08:34] <SWPadnos> ok. I'd check the pin configuration again then
[19:08:52] <SWPadnos> note that the pin numbers in EMC2 are the actual port pin numbers
[19:09:09] <SWPadnos> so the data port is pins 2-9 (not 1-8 as you might expect)
[19:09:20] <sealive> in the config if ther is somthing wrong you mean the hardware is the same
[19:09:29] <sealive> the pins also
[19:09:49] <SWPadnos> yes, the pin configuration in stepconf (or however you created the EMC2 configuration)
[19:09:50] <sealive> maybe there must be a calibration drive first
[19:10:34] <sealive> i do not have a switch that says zero x
[19:10:52] <SWPadnos> oh. that's possible
[19:11:03] <sealive> the programm i ust says all axis zero from the starting point
[19:11:05] <SWPadnos> there's an ini file option that allows you to move before homing
[19:11:25] <SWPadnos> you can also set up homing to just call "wherever the machine is" the home position
[19:11:46] <SWPadnos> (when you home, there would be no motion, it will just zero the coordinates wherever the machine is)
[19:11:59] <sealive> ok
[19:12:17] <sealive> i will give it a try tomorrow its late here
[19:12:32] <SWPadnos> good luck with it
[19:12:37] <tom3p> before you run the machine, you must home it, before you home it you should be able to move. did you read this ?http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_stepconf.html
[19:12:47] <sealive> the scrollbars are the speed limiters or
[19:14:05] <sealive> jes i followd the instruction manual
[19:14:38] <sealive> tom3p: i moved alot times back and forth
[19:14:56] <sealive> trying to get a move
[19:15:16] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/QwGYIvOEG/ good idea to have a sheet ut hard rubber in between these? To absorb some vibration?
[19:15:20] <frallzor> *sheet of
[19:15:40] <tom3p> ok, i didnt know you had motion yet, good. tomorrow try to home, then try to run a program
[19:15:41] <sealive> maybe i wars wrong at the first to selesct stepper in the start window
[19:16:21] <sealive> no ther is no motion at this time at all
[19:16:42] <sealive> i run the cnc under windows with 160kHz
[19:17:05] <tom3p> uh... under windows?
[19:17:41] <tom3p> and did you configure it under linux?
[19:18:06] <sealive> under windows the system is ok
[19:18:30] <sealive> the lagacy test brings 18000
[19:18:46] <tom3p> ok, and did it move ok during the linux configuration? (before cnc, but with linux)
[19:19:14] <sealive> but ther is nothing running i do not now what i can run the instruction says let run glxgears but itas not on the xbuntu
[19:19:34] <sealive> yes the linux is on
[19:20:00] <sealive> ther are to kernals now thill emc is on a real time is there to
[19:20:04] <tom3p> and under linux did it ever move ?
[19:20:37] <sealive> yes once but to fast and lost a lot of steps but only once
[19:21:11] <tom3p> then you need to work with ?http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_stepconf.html so you get nice moving before you try cnc
[19:21:12] <sealive> then i startet stepconf again and since no move at all
[19:21:27] <piasdom> tom3p; sorry had to walk away....thanks for the new version....i didn't use any tool to write the code...i wrote it
[19:21:58] <sealive> thanks tom
[19:22:27] <tom3p> ok, stepconf moved once, but not again.... hmm, and it still moves under windows... i think stepconf has bad information, so bad it cannot move
[19:22:45] <tom3p> piasdom, np, looked nice
[19:23:17] <sealive> what is the mm/s square
[19:23:28] <tom3p> sealivemis this l297 and l298
[19:23:40] <sealive> is this a ramp from start to full speed
[19:23:49] <Jymmm> tom3p: how do you KNOW it moves under windows?!?!?! huh? huh? huh?
[19:24:03] <tom3p> sealive, mm/s^2 is acceleration ( quick versus fast)
[19:24:04] <sealive> tom yes this is my driver
[19:24:14] <tom3p> Jymmm, he said it did.
[19:24:43] <tom3p> Jymmm, he told SWP that he went back and tried it to confirm (afik)
[19:25:05] <Jymmm> * Jymmm fires p the tar wagon and pulls out the bag of feathers.... come here!
[19:25:37] <sealive> ther wars power out for 5Days in NY croton on hudson
[19:26:08] <sealive> :D yust in from Ramstein Airforce base
[19:26:09] <tom3p> wow, a long time in usa, esp NYstate
[19:26:43] <sealive> i wondert how my ant will stay in the 20inch snow
[19:26:59] <sealive> no i now could
[19:27:45] <tom3p> sealive, lets make sure we have the right information, this system is xubuntu, is realtime, it wont move with stepconf, but still moves with windows? is every bit of that true?
[19:28:51] <archivist_attic> * archivist_attic wonders who is smoking what
[19:28:55] <sealive> yes the system of the cnc-PC is xubuntu hardy rti
[19:29:23] <sealive> the xp is the old pc but has a bad LPT
[19:29:39] <sealive> ther is no X axis only y/z
[19:29:58] <sealive> but it moves on the driver
[19:30:09] <sealive> so the driver and the hardware is ok
[19:30:38] <sealive> i delete the config tommorow and will start from the ground
[19:31:05] <tom3p> ok, you have 2 computers, "system of the cnc-PC is xubuntu hardy rti" and "xp is the old pc but has a bad LPT"
[19:31:24] <tom3p> ok sealive, keep the information clear, and take small steps :)
[19:32:04] <atmega> I had a bad LPT for a while, it got better when I noticed B- wasn't really hooked up to the terminal block
[19:32:52] <sealive> no i burstet it in an 14hr cnc marathon
[19:33:27] <tom3p> ok, read the pages i mentioned, you will need to have some information ready BEFORE you use stepconf
[19:33:42] <sealive> atmega: theas are good chips with BASCOM
[19:34:54] <sealive> tom3p: these latency test if i got 18000 shoud i write 20000 to stepconf
[19:35:33] <tom3p> not a bad idea, but its not your problem
[19:35:59] <tom3p> thats just 2uS of safety
[19:36:30] <tom3p> it is not the difference between no motion and good motion
[19:37:40] <sealive> ok i made a lot of things wrong
[19:37:45] <tom3p> i gotta go, good luck
[19:38:11] <sealive> i did also the testarea so smale it coudt somply not move
[19:38:19] <sealive> BB
[19:38:23] <sealive> Thanks
[19:48:52] <skunkworks> 15 rings for tool identification
[19:50:02] <cradek> that's so cool. the control didn't need to know *anything* except the desired tool code
[19:50:10] <skunkworks> exaclty
[19:50:14] <cradek> turn the turret until the tool is there, swap it in, and then forget everything
[19:50:25] <skunkworks> seems simple enough ;)
[19:50:47] <cradek> yeah, except for not knowing which way to look
[19:50:51] <skunkworks> heh
[19:53:24] <cradek> if I was building a control from discrete transistors, that would sound really appealing
[19:53:50] <atmega> anyone know if you can 'straighten' 1/2" acme lead screws?
[19:54:18] <cradek> I know that with care and patience, you can sometimes bend things and end up with the straighter than when you started
[19:54:20] <archivist_attic> atmega, carefully probably yes
[19:54:33] <cradek> with theM
[19:54:34] <clytle374> yes it can be done, but there is also a learning curve
[19:54:59] <atmega> oh well... either UPS or Purolator really sucks.
[19:55:00] <clytle374> start small
[19:55:09] <cradek> you must have a way to measure the straightness and also find the maxima
[19:55:34] <cradek> if you do not have a surface plate and V blocks, don't even start
[19:56:03] <cradek> (unless they're really super obviously bent and you only want them a little less bent)
[19:56:15] <SWPadnos> spin it really fast so it bends to a right angle, then you'll be justified in replacing it
[19:56:33] <atmega> heh, I'd really rather the person who shipped it badly just replaced it.
[19:56:42] <SWPadnos> oh. well that's an option too
[19:56:44] <SWPadnos> :)
[19:57:42] <atmega> $2 worth of packing peanuts would have been a good investment.
[20:00:36] <clytle374> How bent are we talking?
[20:00:57] <atmega> maybe 2cm runout in the middle
[20:01:22] <clytle374> um, how long is it?
[20:01:43] <skunkworks> cradek - they got the number from adding up the 5 sets of 3 rings. is that octal? I don't remember.
[20:01:51] <atmega> 45cm or so
[20:02:22] <cradek> yeah, 3 rings would give you an octal number, pretty much
[20:02:39] <skunkworks> it had a little cheater card you setup aganst the rings so you could figure out the number
[20:03:42] <clytle374> atmega, that's real bent. I'd return it.
[20:04:14] <atmega> that's what I'm hoping to do... it has to go back from .us->.ca though
[20:04:49] <archivist_attic> pack well so it cannot get more bent on the way back
[20:04:56] <clytle374> Not worth the cost, tell them you want new one....Yesterday.
[20:05:12] <cradek> mcmaster sells them, and they will come packaged properly
[20:05:35] <clytle374> cradek, exactly
[20:05:54] <atmega> but do they sell them the right length with ends turned
[20:06:25] <cradek> doubt they will customize the ends
[20:20:34] <JT-Work> mcmaster just sells stock lengths with no special ends
[20:24:10] <Jymmm> I'm sure you can find someone to do the ends for ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!
[20:27:10] <piasdom> ok...i can see the definition of o200, baut i CAN'T see 400 in this o200 call [200] [400] never seen these [] used before with osub
[20:30:55] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[20:32:57] <piasdom> *but
[20:35:07] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_overview.html#sub:Numbered-Parameters
[20:39:06] <aa-danimal-shop> hi
[20:40:03] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: Not really
[20:40:57] <aa-danimal-shop> really? figured you would be by now. it's lunchtime already
[20:41:57] <Jymmm> wel, since I stopped smoking pot eons ago, time of day not gonna matter too much
[20:44:11] <aa-danimal-shop> i was refering to the crack cocaine
[20:44:44] <Jymmm> Is that your poison of choice?
[20:45:10] <aa-danimal-shop> no, that would be beer
[20:48:11] <piasdom> JT-Work; THANKS
[20:48:40] <Jymmm> I wonder if it be cheaper to make something like this http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1634439970.html but out of aluminum
[20:50:49] <Jymmm> It has disc brakes and electrical outlets, can we cnc retrofit it??? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1634385389.html
[20:51:35] <icaro__> icaro__ is now known as icaro
[20:53:34] <piasdom> looks like i need TWO TRILLION DOLLARS.................
[20:53:50] <Jymmm> three now - inflation.
[20:55:07] <andypugh> I have just finished an encoder wheel for my mill spindle. But I must have suffered a mental abberation when I wrote the G-Code.
[20:55:24] <andypugh> There aren't 365 degrees in a circle, are there?
[20:55:33] <MrSunshine_> MrSunshine_ is now known as MrSunshine
[20:55:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: only in a n annual circle
[20:56:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: and make sure it's not a leap circle
[20:56:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: then it's 366
[20:56:31] <andypugh> Ah well, I can make another one tomorrow.
[20:56:48] <archivist_attic> fiddle the leap seconds to get it right
[20:57:38] <andypugh> I am half-tempted to use it anyway, but suspect the thin antislot would cause problems.
[20:58:47] <archivist_attic> filter and it becomes the index pulse
[20:59:25] <archivist_attic> the lp filter to get the phase corrected will be interesting
[20:59:53] <andypugh> I think that making a new one is the better plan.
[20:59:55] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[21:02:47] <ej_> hi guys
[21:03:13] <ej_> I have this one problem with emc2 & pluto-servo & servo drive
[21:04:03] <ej_> I got the computer to talk to the driver through opto-isolators. however, every time I toggle the machine power in axis (which effectively stops the PWM output) the servo drive goes to falt state
[21:04:28] <ej_> my problem is that I don't know how I can use one output on the pluto-p board to send a reset signal to the servo drives
[21:04:30] <cradek> what does the fault mean?
[21:04:47] <cradek> it's normal to have an amp-enable output that goes to the servo drives' enable lines
[21:05:38] <JT-Work> cradek: you get your bike out yet?
[21:05:40] <ej_> if I remember correctly the error state was follow error
[21:05:51] <cradek> JT-Work: no way - it's barely above freezing
[21:06:01] <JT-Work> 65F here today
[21:06:04] <cradek> ej_: do the amps have an enable line?
[21:06:09] <skunkworks> ej_: your using step/dir servo drives?
[21:07:11] <ej_> I'm using PWM without direction (50% offset), and the amps have a "disable faults" input
[21:07:29] <cradek> 50% offset sounds scary
[21:07:31] <skunkworks> oh wow. neat.
[21:07:37] <cradek> no wonder they fault when you go to zero
[21:07:43] <ej_> exactly
[21:07:57] <cradek> I bet you just need to find their enable input and use it
[21:08:02] <ej_> the amp takes PWM instead of 0..10V analog signal, so 50% PWM is zero movement
[21:08:09] <skunkworks> what is that called antiphase something something..
[21:08:37] <ej_> no. the issue is that every time I hit the machine power off from the axis, the amp goes to error state which I need to reset
[21:08:58] <ej_> I could use one output from the pluto-p, but I'm not HAL-literate enough to do that
[21:09:08] <cradek> my idea is that it won't go to error state if you don't tell it to instantly go 100% reverse
[21:09:35] <cradek> you really don't want to command it to do that ---- you want to disable it properly
[21:09:55] <cradek> I'm suggesting you fix the problem, not the sympton
[21:09:59] <cradek> or symptom
[21:10:39] <ej_> it shouldn't, but the issue is that how do I keep the amp in normal state when it waits for the 50% pwm for zero movement, and the pluto puts the output signal to a static 1/0 when the machine is turned off
[21:11:03] <ej_> thus there is not much help in any way I take the PWM down/up to either end
[21:11:52] <ej_> I'm likely to use the amps in step/dir mode (thanks to their versatility), but I'd like to use the feedback from the encoders if it's anyway possible
[21:11:55] <cradek> you could use a mux in hal to command 50% when amp-enable is false
[21:12:12] <cradek> but your axes will surely drift unless you actually disable the amps
[21:13:08] <cradek> step/dir is not superior if you have a fast pwm generator like the pluto
[21:13:16] <cradek> but why not try both ways, I guess
[21:14:12] <ej_> I'm now leaning towards the step/dir mode and forgetting the feedback
[21:14:24] <ej_> the amp is taking care that the steps are taken properly
[21:14:31] <ej_> might be easier to configure
[21:15:31] <ej_> where can I find examples of hal files for e.g. the pluto where I could see how I can use the output pins to different signals?
[21:43:32] <piasdom> o200 call [200] [400] ....so if i need to make 4 pockets i would write o200 call [200] [400] [300] [400] , the hundreds could be 1,2,3 or 4 like [100] could be [1]
[21:49:15] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[21:54:29] <tom3p> piasdom, the 2 values i passed to your subroutine were the 2 feedrates you used
[21:55:20] <tom3p> the positions were hard coded in the subroutine, well they were relative to the current work coordinate system
[21:56:06] <piasdom> so the 200 and 400 are the feed rate ?
[21:56:27] <tom3p> yes, thats just something i factored out of your code
[21:56:49] <piasdom> ok didn't know what they were
[21:57:28] <tom3p> you could do more offsets G10 P2 L?? X?? Y?? Z?? then o200 call would curt related to that new position
[21:57:41] <piasdom> thanks....thanks helps a little more
[21:58:00] <piasdom> what's p2 l?
[21:58:06] <tom3p> its great you make me learn how it works
[21:58:24] <piasdom> you're bein nice...
[21:58:43] <piasdom> l? L?
[21:59:07] <tom3p> well the P2 is for work corrd offset ( P1 is tool table), the L is for which coord set L1 is for G54 L3 is G56
[21:59:46] <piasdom> ok thanks couldn't find that anywhere
[22:00:02] <tom3p> so G10 P2 L1 says were talking about work offsets, and were talking about the 1st one
[22:01:27] <tom3p> does this work for you? file:///usr/share/doc/emc2/gcode.html
[22:01:27] <piasdom> i see said the blind man to his deaf friend THANKS
[22:01:47] <tom3p> what what ? ;)
[22:02:05] <piasdom> :)
[22:22:25] <Kirk_Wallace> Hello, I set up an encoder and halui to set spindle override. So far it is working except I can only go up to 100%, where normally it can go to 120% from the AXIS screen slider. What sets this limit? Thanks.
[22:43:29] <tom3p> dang! nkirk it looks like irs in the ini, and you have tp put it there else it defaults as you saw NULL != (inistring = inifile.Find("MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE", "DISPLAY"))) {
[22:45:15] <tom3p> dang! kirk it looks like its in the ini, and you have to put it there else it defaults as you saw NULL != (inistring = inifile.Find("MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE", "DISPLAY"))) {
[22:47:21] <SWPadnos> or MAX even
[22:48:23] <tom3p> in halui.cc
[22:48:27] <tom3p> static double minSpindleOverride=0.0;
[22:48:27] <tom3p> static double maxSpindleOverride=1.0;
[22:48:43] <tom3p> mad max
[22:48:54] <SWPadnos> MAD MAX!
[22:50:04] <tom3p> aussie friends say there are really bizarre rides to be seen in the outback... no cops, doasyouwill
[22:52:12] <aa-danimal-shop> yawn
[22:52:37] <Kirk_Wallace> Thanks Tom. I'll give it a try.
[22:54:20] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, heres a cool atc
[22:54:23] <andypugh> OK, second encoder ring half way through, this time using the more conventional 360 degree circle.
[22:54:24] <tom3p> http://www.zimmer-kreim.com/film_chameleon.html
[22:54:35] <Kirk_Wallace> I wanted to IRC from the affected computer, but the linuxcnc link prompts me to install a plug-in. Which plug in should I install?
[22:55:05] <SWPadnos> it's java based, I think
[22:55:15] <SWPadnos> but I'd just install chatzilla into firefox instead
[22:55:48] <SWPadnos> (or use whatever it is that's already there, or one of the non-browser-based irc clients, like xchat)
[22:55:51] <alex_joni> or use pidgin which probably is already installed
[22:56:11] <alex_joni> hey SWPadnos
[22:56:18] <SWPadnos> hi
[22:56:26] <alex_joni> how are things?
[22:56:34] <SWPadnos> busy, for the most part
[22:56:36] <alex_joni> no 3d shoot at the oscars?
[22:56:36] <SWPadnos> you?
[22:56:37] <andypugh> Pidgin is there on a LiveCD install.
[22:56:44] <alex_joni> same here
[22:56:50] <SWPadnos> nope. they couldn't get space on the red carpet
[22:56:58] <alex_joni> tired for the other part
[22:57:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:57:15] <Kirk_Wallace> Thanks guys.
[22:57:18] <alex_joni> on that note...
[22:57:21] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:57:25] <SWPadnos> night alex :)
[22:57:31] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, i'll stick with my quickdraw ATC lol
[22:57:37] <tom3p> that tool changer has rfid buttons with toolcomps, tool number, remaining tool life, technology on it,
[22:57:37] <aa-danimal-shop> it's paid for
[22:58:20] <tom3p> and it feeds 2 rows of machines, running back and forth thru the 'alley'
[22:59:05] <aa-danimal-shop> nice
[22:59:10] <aa-danimal-shop> thats nuts
[22:59:27] <tom3p> hahaha
[22:59:58] <tom3p> that what mfctrs want tho, super automation
[23:00:03] <aa-danimal-shop> we'll all be unemployed soon
[23:00:13] <aa-danimal-shop> except for machine manufacturers
[23:01:06] <aa-danimal-shop> almost looks like a 3r system on that edm
[23:01:18] <aa-danimal-shop> but isnt
[23:01:40] <tom3p> no, you'll be managing a dozen machines, human mangers, machine workers
[23:01:47] <tom3p> its erowa
[23:04:23] <aa-danimal-shop> ah ok thought it looked familiar
[23:04:39] <tom3p> i prposed one for prat, but it was overhead. still used the 'automat cafeteria' doors where you could asynch load tools. when the robot wasnt busy, it put on a sniffing wrist and looked at all the new tools and wkpcs that had been inserted.
[23:06:03] <aa-danimal-shop> and they said no? those bastards will usually spend a fortune on crap like that, especially if it cuts down on labor
[23:09:00] <tom3p> yes they said no ;) after a year of dev. and the bought the cheapest picknplace to try to use the idea. it was all scrapped in a year, and erowa was pissed, i was broke (again) and there was some pretty spiffy stuff at an auction in greensboro
[23:10:25] <Kirk_Wallace> ?
[23:10:48] <aa-danimal-shop> sounds like them
[23:10:55] <tom3p> kirk new client seems to work
[23:10:57] <andypugh> That system looks _too_ complicated. I am almost sure that it is cheaper and quicker to tell humans what to do than to set up (and keep set up) a system like that.
[23:11:17] <aa-danimal-shop> we used to do alot of work for them when i lived in Connecticut
[23:11:22] <tom3p> not 3 shifts 365/24/7
[23:11:49] <aa-danimal-shop> and not if you run your own products so you make the same parts day in and day out
[23:12:04] <tom3p> i think i emptied the pratt in watertown, took the remaining machines out
[23:12:07] <Kirk_Wallace> I just used http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=emc in Firefox
[23:12:11] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, , i made a new quick change pallet system for my mill
[23:12:21] <tom3p> looks good kirk
[23:12:35] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, cool, got pix?
[23:12:39] <aa-danimal-shop> ever see the jergens ball locks?
[23:12:48] <tom3p> yah fer dies
[23:12:57] <aa-danimal-shop> not yet, it's not 100% done yet
[23:13:26] <tom3p> very cool, they locate good enuf for leadframes ;)
[23:13:30] <Kirk_Wallace> I tried to find information on Pidgin and stumbled onto the link method.
[23:14:07] <aa-danimal-shop> i have a 4 pad system , with a center stud that goes into a reciever that has 3 balls in it, like a female version of ball locks
[23:15:21] <aa-danimal-shop> so there's 4 pads, with 2 bullet nose pins to locate it in x and y, with that pull stud in the center. there's a screw on the front of the subplate that moves a ramped piece that pushes the balls in and locks down the center pull stud
[23:15:35] <tom3p> i keep forgetting, i have 3 or 4 of those 3r air clamps... a zillion lbs holding force. they were in 10x10x10 blocks, so woul need to be embedded in somthing
[23:15:50] <tom3p> else all the air pressure falls out ;)
[23:16:43] <LawrenceG> JT-Hardinge, you around?
[23:16:51] <tom3p> used sliding sleeve forcing balls into groove
[23:17:08] <pfred1> LawrenceG speak gibberish like everyone elsei n this channel does!
[23:18:07] <LawrenceG> hey... I have been playing with a nice little 3ph motor out of a front load washing machine.... says 16000rpm on the nameplate
[23:18:11] <Jymmm> ug ug grog ughhhh rawlll
[23:18:26] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop should I buff my chrome reverse muffler bearings or my piston return springs?
[23:18:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: Sounds like something a hooker might do
[23:19:14] <pfred1> Jymmm gotcha I'll hire it out next
[23:19:30] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i dont know what you're refering to, but i'm not the guy you're looking for if you need help with that lol
[23:19:45] <Jymmm> pfred1: Get one for me too, make her a redhead
[23:20:03] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I come in and one guy is feeding pidigns and you have females with 3 balls I'm just trying ot fit in
[23:21:46] <aa-danimal-shop> no comment
[23:22:51] <pfred1> I seen some strange IRC convos but this made me feel like I was having a flashback or something
[23:25:25] <pfred1> its not done yet but I think it has a menacing look to it already: http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6239/bob3p.png
[23:26:31] <Kirk_Wallace> Well I put "MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 120" in [DISPLAY] and the slider stays to the left, the number goes from 0 to 203% which is the output from the encoder.
[23:27:28] <pfred1> * pfred1 breaks out his secret decoder ring and parses what Kirk_Wallace just said ....
[23:27:35] <tom3p> tom3p> in halui.cc
[23:27:35] <tom3p> <tom3p> static double minSpindleOverride=0.0;
[23:27:35] <tom3p> <tom3p> static double maxSpindleOverride=1.0;
[23:28:51] <tom3p> Kirk_Wallace, err is it ok now?
[23:29:18] <Kirk_Wallace> Tom: you mean I need to to edit and compile EMC?
[23:29:32] <tom3p> pfred1, http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/ you can read the last 7 or 8 years of this
[23:29:44] <tom3p> Kirk_Wallace, did it work?
[23:29:55] <JT-Hardinge> LawrenceG: I am now
[23:30:11] <pfred1> tom3p nah I've had my fill of pigeon droppings in this life thanks
[23:30:32] <pfred1> tom3p but I'll save it for the next one you never know
[23:30:44] <LawrenceG> JT-Hardinge, were you playing with washing machine motors?
[23:31:06] <JT-Hardinge> WEEEE! the new cap's are here
[23:31:09] <JT-Hardinge> LawrenceG: no
[23:31:35] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge are you good at soldering?
[23:31:44] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[23:31:51] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge good!
[23:32:03] <JT-Hardinge> WEEEE! the new X axis belt is here
[23:32:04] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge where'd you order them from?
[23:32:06] <LawrenceG> ah ok... thought it was you... I got one here... nice little 3ph motor and drive, but the drive takes "codes from the timer module), not speed commands
[23:32:54] <JT-Hardinge> Digikey
[23:33:17] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge ever tried Newark?
[23:33:41] <JT-Hardinge> yep, sometimes they have it sometimes Digikey has what I want
[23:33:50] <JT-Hardinge> just depends on the part
[23:34:13] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wanders around to the back of the machine to start the belt change
[23:34:13] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge Newark always gets me stuff fastest
[23:35:45] <JT-Hardinge> Z-5
[23:35:51] <JT-Hardinge> oh wrong windoe
[23:35:54] <JT-Hardinge> window
[23:36:19] <pfred1> * pfred1 takes a bead on a winbuck ...
[23:36:20] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, , i wonder if ours take the same belts
[23:36:59] <JT-Hardinge> this one is marked cn0003346
[23:37:15] <JT-Hardinge> Hardinge brand
[23:37:29] <aa-danimal-shop> my part numbers are long since expired
[23:38:18] <JT-Hardinge> I ordered a parts book for mine for about $40
[23:39:05] <aa-danimal-shop> i hasve a parts book, but they dont even supply that stuff anymore
[23:39:18] <aa-danimal-shop> i heard they cant even cross reference the part numbers
[23:39:35] <JT-Hardinge> this one is 17.75" circumference 1" wide
[23:40:22] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge tries to get the belt changed before the wife gets home and blocks that side
[23:40:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i bet it's the same thing
[23:41:03] <andypugh> Danimal: You make bicycle parts, yes?
[23:41:09] <aa-danimal-shop> yep
[23:41:30] <andypugh> What's the state-of-the-art in super-strong rear hubs>
[23:41:53] <aa-danimal-shop> for what purpose?
[23:41:58] <andypugh> I am wondering about making a 20mm through-Axle rear hub for my proposed 4-man tandem.
[23:42:29] <aa-danimal-shop> if dt swiss makes that option, i'd go with them. I've always liked their hubs
[23:42:38] <andypugh> Ball bearing on the non-drive side, needle roller on the drive side (to fit inside standard sprockets)
[23:43:23] <andypugh> That's the arrangement my motorbike has, and that works well.
[23:44:01] <aa-danimal-shop> sounds doable
[23:45:51] <andypugh> Is it worth looking for 48 spoke rims do you reckon?
[23:46:00] <pfred1> I keep on trashing my front hubs on my bicycles
[23:46:35] <aa-danimal-shop> andypugh, i dunno, i couldnt even guess for your use
[23:47:20] <andypugh> The three-man bike ran for years on standard, cheap, second-hand hubs, but it was a lot of work to pedal 3-up. (It was pretty fast 2-up and very slow one-up, regardless of which seat you used)
[23:47:55] <pfred1> andypugh sounds like a burning man funny to me
[23:52:56] <Kirk_Wallace> tom3p : "MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.0" and "MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.20" seems to work. The screen starts with 100%, then I have to sweep the full encoder rotation to get the slider and X% to sync with the ecoder value.
[23:54:28] <andypugh> 3-man bike in a college video from about 1986.
[23:54:29] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtK0Cfa3-qQ
[23:54:38] <andypugh> (At 5:10)
[23:57:28] <aa-danimal-shop> Kirk_Wallace, did you see my machines? (i'm the one who emailed you)
[23:58:05] <andypugh> On reflection, it probably isn't worth sitting through 5 minutes of that video to see the Trandem
[23:59:44] <aa-danimal-shop> haha