#emc | Logs for 2010-03-07

[00:35:28] <andypugh> Google Challenge..
[00:35:34] <elmo40> go
[00:36:33] <andypugh> What is a Panasonic Minas MBMK062ELE1 motor
[00:37:01] <elmo40> minas hyper brushless servo
[00:37:02] <elmo40> :P
[00:37:18] <elmo40> $60, there abouts
[00:37:22] <andypugh> Yes, so you found the eBay auction I am watching...
[00:37:33] <elmo40> no, some uk site
[00:37:36] <DaViruz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-Minas-Hyper-Brushless-Servo-Motor-MBMK062ELE1_W0QQitemZ260557157829QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20100224?IMSfp=TL100224126001r22279
[00:37:52] <DaViruz> that dude claims more data is available on panasonics site, but i can't find any
[00:37:54] <andypugh> Yes, that's the one
[00:37:57] <elmo40> buysteppermotor.co.uk
[00:38:13] <DaViruz> oh, it's ended though
[00:38:13] <DaViruz> :)
[00:38:43] <andypugh> It's relisted
[00:39:16] <andypugh> Or a simialr one, eBay 260561473169
[00:40:04] <DaViruz> i'd ask the seller for the additional data he found on panasonics site
[00:40:40] <andypugh> I am only slightly curious about things like torque and voltage
[00:41:47] <andypugh> Which is another question... Servo motors seem to be specified for really very high voltages. Is that the max safe voltage, or do you really need a 300V supply for some of them?
[00:41:49] <elmo40> slightly
[00:42:01] <elmo40> absolute encoder?
[00:42:19] <micges> andypugh: even 400V
[00:43:03] <andypugh> I get a bit nervous around 400V Cd supplies
[00:43:08] <andypugh> (DC)
[00:43:44] <elmo40> what for?
[00:43:48] <elmo40> makes the motors more efficient
[00:43:50] <elmo40> less amperage
[00:43:57] <elmo40> if it is the same torque.
[00:44:04] <andypugh> More painful to touch
[00:44:06] <DaViruz> and allows you to run them of rectified 230V AC mains
[00:44:10] <elmo40> and less amperage is the safer one then less voltage!
[00:44:35] <andypugh> elmo40: That's simply wrong.
[00:44:47] <elmo40> umm, no.
[00:44:53] <elmo40> voltage is nothing withought Amperes
[00:45:12] <elmo40> the amps will kill you. less then 1amp will kill you!
[00:45:15] <elmo40> stop your heart
[00:45:24] <andypugh> I speak as a resistor, you might be built differently.
[00:45:26] <elmo40> but 10,000V could flow through you like nothing
[00:46:07] <elmo40> highvoltage will travel 'over' your body. ontop of the skin. unless you are pierced ;)
[00:46:08] <DaViruz> if you get 10kV across your body you will most likely die, regardless
[00:46:17] <elmo40> not true
[00:46:23] <andypugh> Yes, true.
[00:46:28] <frallzor> the burns will kill you if nothing else =)
[00:46:33] <micges> I have friend that was shocked 30kV
[00:46:34] <DaViruz> if it's current limited there will never be 10kV across you body
[00:46:48] <elmo40> have you ever seen people playing with Tesla coils? the voltage is high, the aps down in the mA
[00:47:06] <micges> he would have injuries for rest of life
[00:47:08] <DaViruz> yes, and the voltage is gone once your body shorts the circuit
[00:47:34] <elmo40> frallzor: if the 10kV STOPS with your body, sure. but electricity wants to travel. your body will never want to absorb it. it will travel through you to get to somewere else.
[00:47:48] <andypugh> We understand what you are saying, that 10mA is all that it takes to kill you, and 100kV @ 1mA is safe, but 400V will easily push 10mA through you.
[00:47:53] <DaViruz> if you limit the current to say 10mA the maximum you'll see is 50-100V-ish
[00:48:04] <elmo40> no, 10mA is not all it take. 1A is.
[00:48:29] <DaViruz> well that's very dependant on the current path
[00:48:47] <DaViruz> and worst case 60mA will probably do
[00:48:49] <elmo40> DaViruz: A and V are directly proportional! you raise one you drop the other. is the R is constant
[00:49:00] <DaViruz> yes
[00:49:07] <DaViruz> that is exactly what i've been saying
[00:49:23] <DaViruz> no. wait
[00:49:50] <DaViruz> you've got it wrong. if you have a constant R, and raise V, A will rise too
[00:50:00] <elmo40> wow
[00:50:05] <elmo40> what equation are you looking at?
[00:50:09] <andypugh> elmo40: No, if you are a resistor, if you raise the voltage you raise the current too. You seem to be assuming constant power for some random reason.
[00:50:27] <clytle374> Amps kill and volts penetrate. Of course you can get lucky and survive a lighting strike. But don't get brave with 1.5V and needles either.
[00:50:35] <elmo40> V = IR
[00:51:06] <andypugh> Yes, R is constant, double the voltage = double the currnt
[00:51:07] <frallzor> * frallzor prefers U 8-)
[00:51:12] <DaViruz> well, put 10V across 10 ohm, and calculate the current
[00:51:20] <DaViruz> then put 100V across 10 ohm, and calculate the current again
[00:51:29] <DaViruz> you will get 1A with 10V, and 10A with 100V
[00:51:42] <DaViruz> this is really very very basic
[00:52:33] <clytle374> But the body is also an insulator with a breakdown voltage
[00:53:09] <andypugh> Van der Graff generators etc are safe because the current is limited to tiny, tiny levels. Don't let that persuade you that flying a kite near a 50kV power line is safe too.
[00:54:10] <elmo40> andypugh: those powerlines have tremedous currents.
[00:54:31] <andypugh> Yes, and so does the 400V DC servo drive we were discussing.
[00:54:33] <DaViruz> like i said, when the current is limited you will only see low voltages once you short them with something
[00:54:37] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock
[00:55:41] <DaViruz> using elmo40s math a 1.5V battery would be orders of magnitude more dangerous than high voltage..
[00:56:06] <andypugh> clytle374: You are right about needles too, I have handled a 1.5V battery with cutting swarf embedded in my fingers, that really hurt.
[00:57:03] <clytle374> andypugh, looking for the article about a guy trying to get a muscle reflex with a 1.5V battery and died.
[00:57:52] <andypugh> I heard of someone who died with a 1.5V battery whilst performing erotic experiments in the bath..
[00:58:23] <andypugh> Could be the same one, I suppose
[00:58:40] <DaViruz> clytle374: which muscle was that, was he performing open heart surgury on himself?
[00:59:00] <DaViruz> other than that i'm doubful you could kill yourself with 1.5
[00:59:01] <DaViruz> V
[00:59:35] <frallzor> maybe he sat on it
[00:59:42] <frallzor> and it penetrated him
[00:59:45] <frallzor> and Bzzzz
[00:59:46] <frallzor> dead
[00:59:50] <clytle374> He went into both forearms. Can't seem to find it now, but IIRC very legit source
[01:00:50] <DaViruz> maybe darwin awards :-)
[01:01:14] <frallzor> * frallzor sniffs
[01:01:24] <clytle374> Found a video of a guy grabbing the over head line of an electric train.
[01:01:32] <frallzor> I can still smell it
[01:01:41] <andypugh> I don't think I want to see that
[01:01:54] <clytle374> I didn't either
[01:02:24] <andypugh> I am guessing it went badly for him?
[01:02:55] <clytle374> Unless he wanted to be a smoldering corpse, YES
[01:06:35] <andypugh> Google has just found me that fact that some Italian trains have 3-phase power from the overhead....
[01:07:05] <DaViruz> that seems impractical
[01:07:43] <frallzor> its Italian, all they do is impractical
[01:07:50] <andypugh> It makes for very complex crossings, but very simple in-train electrics
[01:08:24] <DaViruz> i'm not sure it helps with in-train electrics these days
[01:08:39] <elmo40> impractical for sure. they make crappy cars as well...
[01:08:52] <DaViruz> they likely have to rectify it to drive the motors anyway
[01:09:04] <elmo40> but, the Ducati is amazing!
[01:09:18] <elmo40> still 50Hz over there?
[01:09:36] <andypugh> TGV/Eurostar is 25kV / 50Hz
[01:10:10] <DaViruz> yes, the entire world except the US still uses 50Hz :-P
[01:10:43] <andypugh> Not all Italian cars are poor. Ferrari, Lambourghini and Maserati make some acceptable runabouts.
[01:11:44] <DaViruz> i could do with a lancia delta integrale as well
[01:11:56] <Valen> bbq lighters are 10kv they don't kill many people l->
[01:12:02] <andypugh> Yes, that would be acceptable to me too.
[01:12:45] <Valen> I would like a bugatti vaeron
[01:12:46] <andypugh> A colleague of mine has a Delta Integrale.
[01:14:45] <elmo40> higher frequency is more efficent. More waves per time means higher V_rms.
[01:14:55] <andypugh> The Lancia Stratos would suit me..
[01:15:21] <DaViruz> elmo40: no, it does not
[01:15:28] <andypugh> I am not sure that the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz is significant though.
[01:16:01] <Valen> elmo40 no rms is independent of frequency by definition
[01:16:03] <DaViruz> besides, ac voltage is already expressed in V rms
[01:16:07] <clytle374> Also if you look at the biggest transmission lines they use DC because it is more efficient.
[01:16:21] <Valen> not common clytle though true
[01:16:45] <john_f_> higher frequency means more parasitic losses
[01:16:46] <andypugh> Is anyone else worried that elmo40 is going to end up smouldering on the floor of his workshop?
[01:17:07] <Valen> i'm worried its going to be somebody elses workshop ;-P
[01:17:25] <DaViruz> or someone else in someone elses workshop
[01:17:28] <elmo40> clytle374: since when is DC more efficient then AC?
[01:17:52] <DaViruz> since the laws of physics were instated roughly 14 billion years ago
[01:17:56] <frallzor> since forever
[01:18:00] <andypugh> Since they found solid state ways to convert voltages
[01:18:04] <Valen> dc transmission of power over long distances is more efficent than AC as it is not subject to parasitic losses due to the nature of AC current
[01:18:13] <john_f_> higher frequency -> more eddy current losses, more current shunted through parasitic capacitance
[01:18:16] <clytle374> It always has been The simplified tv version is that ac is more efficent.
[01:18:20] <elmo40> this is why edison failed to sell the DC generating stations. Tesla proved that you can step up the power easily with AC and transmit over longer distances. edison said 'so, have a generating station in every city'.
[01:18:31] <Valen> like say the million volt DC line that runs verticaly through the US and a few through russia
[01:19:08] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC
[01:19:15] <clytle374> AC is easier to step the voltage up and down, that is all.
[01:19:21] <andypugh> The only reason that HV power lines are AC is that it makes it easier to transform back down again at the far end.
[01:19:22] <clytle374> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current
[01:19:23] <DaViruz> yes, voltage transforming was easier with AC 150 years ago
[01:19:34] <Valen> I'd say thats debatable these days clytle
[01:19:44] <Valen> at "sane" voltages silicon is cheaper than copper ;->
[01:20:00] <Valen> personally I'd like to convert the power grid to DC to the wall
[01:20:17] <DaViruz> you have my vote
[01:20:49] <DaViruz> that would greatly improve the efficiency of every switch mode power supply in operation as well
[01:20:54] <Valen> (in australia) if you run ~400vDC to the wall its just over the peak voltage of the AC line so it's not going to cause any weird issues due to voltage
[01:20:56] <andypugh> I will join you as long as we can have 3-Phase DC :-)
[01:20:59] <clytle374> replacing every power pole transformer in the US would take some time.
[01:21:19] <elmo40> a few hours or so...
[01:21:22] <Valen> and you can make AC power out for things that still need it with a super simple switchmode
[01:21:35] <Valen> best thing is you can phase in the introduction over time
[01:21:49] <Valen> you guys have a transformer for every house dont you?
[01:22:03] <andypugh> Which gy
[01:22:10] <frallzor> yanks
[01:22:30] <andypugh> Which Guys? (was meant to be the question, who put that enter key there?)
[01:22:47] <Valen> clytle
[01:22:59] <Valen> but generally people who run 110V
[01:23:25] <Valen> best part is 400V DC lets you use all the 600V silicon still, so its all just plain nifty
[01:23:45] <Valen> need to replace all your wall warts with nice high efficency models
[01:23:57] <clytle374> In the US most every house has a transformer for 220V
[01:24:20] <Valen> only need a handfull of high power inverters for things like vacume cleaners and fridges
[01:24:31] <john_f_> no there are about 4 houses per transformer where I live in the US
[01:24:42] <Valen> but they should be on the order of $20 with some volume production
[01:24:58] <andypugh> Valen: Make the fridges Peltier and keep the DC..
[01:25:07] <DaViruz> no
[01:25:07] <Valen> peltier is really inefficent
[01:25:10] <DaViruz> do not do that
[01:25:10] <DaViruz> :)
[01:25:36] <Valen> use the efficent brushless motors they are using in new fridges but dump the ac>dc converter stage
[01:25:45] <andypugh> But it's kewl and solid state, that matters more than efficiency and effectiveness!
[01:26:28] <DaViruz> if you're heating your house by electric means, sure. if you're cooling down your house, nah
[01:27:01] <andypugh> We will all be heating electrically eventually, I suspect.
[01:27:17] <Valen> if we can get fusion power
[01:27:31] <pfred1> Valen try Gilette
[01:27:33] <DaViruz> i would like to use the 65% waste heat from nuclear plants to heat houses
[01:27:35] <andypugh> Thorium fission is an option.
[01:27:52] <DaViruz> instead of pumping it out in the ocean
[01:28:06] <clytle374> Thorium fluoride is the key, IMO
[01:28:21] <pfred1> Valen http://members.arstechnica.com/x/crxs/Gillette_Fusion.jpg
[01:28:55] <DaViruz> actually in sweden there was a plan in place to use the waste heat from a nuclear plant to heat a major city, but it was eventually discarded
[01:28:55] <pfred1> DaViruz hey fish need to be cozy too you know!
[01:29:25] <pfred1> DaViruz something about radioactive water running through my house doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy inside
[01:29:49] <clytle374> Did the Russians heat that one city with waste reactor heat?
[01:29:49] <andypugh> If every human on earth uses the same power as the average American then known Uranium reserves could last 20 years. If they can get Thorium fission working then that will last us 10,000 years. I am confident we could get Fusion working in 10,000 years, pessimistic about 20 years.
[01:29:50] <DaViruz> it's not radioactive and it would pass thorough several stages of heat exchangers
[01:30:40] <clytle374> Water itself doesn't become radioactive.
[01:30:43] <DaViruz> thy use some of it to heat highways now instead, to keep them free of snow and ice in the winter
[01:30:44] <pfred1> clytle374 the russians heated the whole globe with the cloud from Chernybll
[01:31:07] <andypugh> pfred1: No they didn't.
[01:31:30] <pfred1> andypugh I remember tracking it as it went around the planet three times
[01:31:48] <DaViruz> actually they did, but i doubt the heat from the radioactive decay was even measurable ;)
[01:31:58] <andypugh> Yes, but I think it had a net cooling effect, with bonus deaths as a feature.
[01:32:03] <pfred1> DaViruz it was still pretty scary
[01:32:29] <pfred1> andypugh supposedly only 30 people died as a direct result of the accident
[01:32:40] <frallzor> nuclear accidents are interesting, too few nowadays
[01:33:15] <frallzor> *note to self; get job at a nuclera power plant; cause accident*
[01:33:26] <frallzor> *check spelling*
[01:33:39] <andypugh> I meant indirectly. And I want to mention the bravery of those people who went in to sort it out knowing that it would kill them.
[01:34:07] <pfred1> andypugh yeah the guy who flew the chopper to dump concrete onto the core got toasted
[01:34:12] <DaViruz> or getting tricked to do it, having no clue about the dangers..
[01:34:45] <pfred1> DaViruz if you're smart enoug hto fly a helicopter you know when you're going over a blown up nuclear power plant
[01:35:40] <andypugh> Many of them were nuclear power plant staff, they knew what they were doing, but saw it as their responsibility
[01:35:58] <DaViruz> a lot of the fatalities were the fire fighters who put out the fires
[01:36:01] <pfred1> andypugh it was more the fault of the plant designers
[01:36:17] <pfred1> the place was a death trap
[01:36:20] <DaViruz> that is a pretty controversial matter
[01:36:47] <pfred1> though the boneheads running the place at the time didn't help matters any
[01:36:57] <clytle374> I read a report making it sound like amateur hour in the control room.
[01:37:08] <DaViruz> but i agree, the plant design was a disaster, but it would never have happened without human error and negligence
[01:37:21] <pfred1> yeah i think they were conducting some kind of a drill and no one was really paying much attention
[01:37:52] <DaViruz> they were testing what would happen in the event of external power loss
[01:38:09] <DaViruz> which would force them to switch water pumps etc to the power generated by the plant itself
[01:38:13] <pfred1> the new thing is pocket reactors a company that makes reactors for shipping is getting into the game
[01:38:35] <clytle374> I think it was a shutdown or idle test, the most dangerous thing you can do.
[01:38:59] <andypugh> It was the first time I noticed the internet existed. There were email updates and rumours coming in to the computer in the hall of residence I was living in as a student.
[01:39:36] <pfred1> what was it about 1986 or so when it happened?
[01:39:43] <DaViruz> yeah
[01:39:48] <DaViruz> i was two years old :/
[01:39:52] <pfred1> yeah we had no Internet
[01:40:09] <pfred1> I was 21
[01:40:38] <pfred1> DaViruz I was older than you were when I saw the first man walk on the Moon
[01:41:04] <DaViruz> hell you might have been older than my parents :)
[01:41:32] <pfred1> DaViruz they started young then
[01:43:35] <pfred1> is there a way with frequency in the axis test to figure out my motor RPM?
[01:44:43] <andypugh> Simplest way is probably just simple maths, you know the ipm and the leadscrew pitch...
[01:45:02] <pfred1> andypugh well the axis test gives you that
[01:45:19] <pfred1> I was just wondering what RPM the motor is spinning at though
[01:45:31] <andypugh> Gives you which?
[01:45:38] <pfred1> ips
[01:46:02] <pfred1> I gave it bs numbers for my non-existant lead screws etc
[01:46:06] <andypugh> Motor RPM is IPM/leadscew Pitch
[01:46:15] <pfred1> ok
[01:46:26] <pfred1> thanks let me run it and get the number
[01:47:36] <andypugh> Hmm, the actual calculation depends in if you have pitch in turns per inch or lead per turn, of course.
[01:47:57] <pfred1> ah i told it 10 turns an inch
[01:48:27] <andypugh> So 48 ipm is 480 rpm
[01:48:35] <pfred1> I will use 1/2-10 acme leads
[01:48:47] <pfred1> hmmm I was hoping it'd run stronger faster than that
[01:48:57] <andypugh> Steppers?
[01:49:00] <pfred1> yes
[01:49:11] <andypugh> What voltage?
[01:49:14] <pfred1> 23
[01:49:26] <andypugh> Nema 23?
[01:49:41] <pfred1> yes 1 stack they're little vextas
[01:49:53] <pfred1> 124 oz/in unipolar
[01:50:26] <andypugh> It's only going to get less when moving the machine.
[01:51:21] <pfred1> yeah?
[01:51:58] <pfred1> I mean they run faster but not stronger than that
[01:52:09] <pfred1> that seems to be the strong spot
[01:52:18] <andypugh> See how it goes, but you might want to start mentally preparing yourself for bigger, bipolar motors and more volts. Then you will start looking at servos with avarice.
[01:52:46] <pfred1> andypugh I'm not looking for much out of this machine really
[01:53:28] <pfred1> but as it is now I cna't stop the shaft by holding it I mean it's not flighty and it is reversing etc
[01:53:44] <andypugh> They _should_ have peak torque at very low speeds, the classical stepper torque curve is downhill all the way from 0rpm
[01:53:52] <pfred1> as in you put this motor to a screw and you're going to have some power
[01:54:36] <andypugh> Good, get it connected up then, rather than wasting time on IRC.. :-)
[01:54:41] <pfred1> well it seemed to me my motors would pull out at around 250 RPM
[01:54:41] <DaViruz> i'm running 200oz/in, 26V bipolar with geckos, and i'm getting 50ipm reliably, but it's not very strong at that speed
[01:55:13] <pfred1> like you could reverse direction full tilt at that speed
[01:55:31] <pfred1> using a 555 timer for a step generator
[01:56:11] <pfred1> emc with its accel ramp is nice
[01:56:15] <andypugh> It all changes (in somewhat unpredictable ways) when there is a machine connected.
[01:57:09] <andypugh> The 555 seems like an odd choice. EMC can produce step pulses directly for a unipolar motor.
[01:57:40] <pfred1> axis test says my max pulse rate is 6400Hz 8000 steps/in
[01:58:16] <pfred1> andypugh i used the 555 before i hooked emc2 up to build my motor drivers
[01:58:28] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[01:58:57] <pfred1> http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6498/stepproto1.jpg
[01:59:02] <pfred1> not quite a Gecko
[01:59:04] <andypugh> You are ware of the Stepgen options that can drive unipolar motors almost directly?
[01:59:29] <pfred1> andypugh no I am not
[01:59:33] <andypugh> Not that that is necessarily a good idea...
[01:59:43] <pfred1> I just went with the classic step and direction inputs
[02:00:17] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[02:00:29] <andypugh> Types 9 and 10 for example.
[02:01:05] <pfred1> andypugh yes I don't think my PC would care to take o nthe work
[02:01:35] <pfred1> andypugh how the heck you get all the outputs?
[02:01:36] <andypugh> A dedicated chip and step/direction is probably better,and a commercial drive is better still.
[02:02:08] <pfred1> I've seen commercial drives i wouldn't trade mine for ;)
[02:02:36] <pfred1> with the cheesy 4 steps of current selection etc
[02:04:07] <pfred1> I found to get my drives to perform best i had to be careful with my current setting
[02:04:21] <pfred1> more did not help
[02:05:14] <andypugh> It depends on what you are wanting to do, and the budget. I decided a while back that the P-Port and software pulse generation was too limiting, so went for a Mesa card. I have been using commercial drivers since the start. But I think is it cool that EMC can drive a stepper using nothing more than components to buffer the P-Port currents.
[02:05:32] <clytle374> I seem to be loosing ground on 64 bit rtai. It gets worse with every try.
[02:06:18] <pfred1> when i started this project commercial drive options were much more limited than they are today if I had to do it all over again I would go a different route than I am taking now
[02:06:40] <andypugh> clytle374: Why are you trying? I assume it is an academic excercise as EMC works perfectly well in 32 bits?
[02:06:42] <pfred1> but I think there are still people traveling a rougher path than I am
[02:07:38] <clytle374> andypugh, matter of principal or vendetta at this point.
[02:08:07] <DaViruz> there are indeed, a friend of mine is experimenting with driving a bipolar stepper with a stereo audio amoplifiers :)
[02:08:16] <pfred1> clytle374 the path of least resistance can be the most pleasant at times
[02:08:31] <DaViruz> it actually seems to be working surprisingly well
[02:08:40] <pfred1> DaViruz like the linistepper project
[02:09:04] <clytle374> I'm mainly still trying it while wiring up some cables.
[02:09:36] <andypugh> Yeah, I have been there with my SMP kernel. I hated the thought of that CPU sat there idle, to spent ages making an SMP kernel and EMC build that could run both. The payoff was that latency went from 24,000 to 6,000. But as I have a Mesa card that is actually pointless.
[02:09:39] <DaViruz> but you're missing out on constant current, so i doubt he gets good performance on both low and high speeds
[02:10:34] <clytle374> and why does Ubuntu have to rename the kernels.
[02:11:17] <pfred1> clytle374 what distro doesn't?
[02:11:18] <andypugh> It's more an issue that EMC seems to use hard-coded kernel names.
[02:11:25] <clytle374> gentoo
[02:11:38] <pfred1> clytle374 like I said what distro doesn't :)
[02:12:00] <clytle374> It is a question of what rtai patch to install.
[02:12:23] <andypugh> Ah, yes, that problem.
[02:12:31] <clytle374> where did modules go?
[02:13:45] <DaViruz> is that a rethorical question? /lib/modules/<kernel version>/ if not
[02:13:53] <andypugh> Don't ask me, I am baffled by Linux. I just followed step-by-step
[02:14:02] <andypugh> http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-ubuntu
[02:14:44] <pfred1> years ago I applied the rtai patch to a kernel on a non live CD distro just to check it out
[02:15:05] <clytle374> DaViruz, yeah. Check the timestamp to find out what modules you just installed.
[02:15:13] <clytle374> I built 32 bit okay,
[02:15:34] <pfred1> 64 bit seems like as many headaches today as when it came out
[02:15:53] <pfred1> and back then if you'd have asked me I'd have said it'd all be sorted out by now
[02:16:26] <pfred1> can't those 64 bit CPUs run like they're 32 bits?
[02:16:31] <clytle374> I haven't ran into a roadblock in over a year, and that was flashplayer
[02:16:36] <andypugh> When I was a lad you had 8 bits and were happy
[02:16:52] <clytle374> andypugh, lol
[02:16:59] <pfred1> andypugh when i was a lad I played with TTL and was happy
[02:17:17] <pfred1> andypugh 8080s cost hundreds!
[02:17:43] <andypugh> Z80s didn't
[02:17:57] <pfred1> they weren't around when I was a lad
[02:18:27] <pfred1> though around 1991 or so I did by a sinclair with one in it
[02:18:30] <clytle374> If they said it didn't work, then fine. but they say it works, and I guess i'm taking it personally that I can't get it to work
[02:19:09] <andypugh> Sinclairs were rather old in 1991, do you mean 1981?
[02:19:16] <pfred1> this is a Z-80 based system http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7615/p7100104.jpg
[02:19:26] <pfred1> andypugh no I waited til they dropped in price :)
[02:21:21] <andypugh> Clearly I had a priveliged upbringing, I bought my ZX81 with pocket money and odd jobs.
[02:21:25] <pfred1> actually in 81 it was still the Apple ][
[02:21:41] <clytle374> C64
[02:21:48] <clytle374> or vic20
[02:21:49] <pfred1> that came later
[02:22:18] <pfred1> trs-80
[02:22:23] <andypugh> I think that the ZX81 was £75 (or $100) in 1981.
[02:22:24] <pfred1> that was around in 81
[02:22:51] <andypugh> MattyMatt is keeping rather quiet :-)
[02:23:18] <pfred1> andypugh it may have been around in england that early but not here in the states
[02:25:41] <andypugh> Perversely, I guess that the ZX81 was a realtime OS, or the screen graphics could never have worked (it did program execution only when the screen was resetting)
[02:27:00] <tlab> clytle374, you related to a Vern, Elliek, Peter, Dewey, or (Bill or Bob) from Indiana?
[02:27:28] <tlab> or Alvin
[02:29:15] <clytle374> No, only person there with the name is grandma and grandpa.
[02:29:41] <tlab> ?
[02:29:50] <clytle374> Only been one son each generation.
[02:30:14] <tlab> that's weird
[02:30:36] <tlab> I talked to my grandpa and he said his dad had 5 brothers, so 6 in total
[02:30:37] <pfred1> andypugh when you used yours did it get really hot?
[02:30:49] <tlab> and a few lived in Northern Indiana
[02:31:10] <andypugh> Yes, they got rather hot
[02:31:37] <clytle374> My great grandfather is the end of the genealogy.
[02:31:44] <pfred1> andypugh I bought a surplus keyboard from radio shack and fitted it to mine
[02:32:04] <pfred1> andypugh I only had to move around a couple of keys on it to make it work
[02:32:28] <pfred1> andypugh but man would it interfere with TV reception then!
[02:33:32] <andypugh> Did that help? The keyboard had one key per keyword, without the legends it would be a nightmare to work out how to get the keywords
[02:33:38] <pfred1> like the keyboard i put on mine acted like an antenna broadcasting he noise of the system
[02:33:45] <tlab> ahh I bet we're still distant relation somehow
[02:33:56] <pfred1> andypugh oh i took the old membrane and glued it to the raised part
[02:34:23] <pfred1> andypugh it was much nicer with "real" keys
[02:34:51] <pfred1> * pfred1 hacked the matrix!
[02:35:57] <pfred1> as i can recall I visually decyphered the membrane one looking at the back of it
[02:36:15] <andypugh> If anyone is puzzled, and cares, the ZX80, ZX81 and Spectrum had a system where keys typed whole words according to context, and the upper 128 character set were tokenised BASIC keywords.
[02:36:17] <andypugh> http://www.wearmouth.demon.co.uk/zx81kb.htm
[02:36:26] <robotito> pfred1,zilog based?
[02:36:36] <pfred1> robotito my breadboard?
[02:36:50] <pfred1> robotito this? http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7615/p7100104.jpg
[02:39:10] <robotito> yes
[02:39:28] <andypugh> OK, sleep beckons
[02:39:47] <pfred1> robotito on that board there are a few circuits the middle right one is a Z-80 based microcomputer
[02:40:22] <pfred1> robotito the top is an EEPROM programmer i needed to write the firmware
[02:41:08] <pfred1> it was all very un-user-friendly
[02:41:44] <clytle374> tlab, who knows?
[02:41:52] <pfred1> the funny looking thing on the end of the coil cable is a 8 bit hexidecimal encoder
[02:42:15] <tlab> I dunno lol
[02:42:24] <pfred1> you had to write each hex nibble one at a time and shift between the two
[02:42:25] <tlab> my grandpa might but he's getting old
[02:43:27] <clytle374> My grandpa knows nothing of the lytle side other than his father being 'dumped' with his mothers parents.
[02:44:02] <tlab> what was his name?
[02:44:45] <tlab> might be related to the other lytles here in town that I'm not directly related to, but could be a distance relation to
[02:45:57] <tlab> here's a weird story, we bought a car in Indy from this small car lot, one of the owners said he was in the war with a Lytle from Illinois come to find out he was related to the other lytles here in town
[02:47:59] <clytle374> Alexander
[02:49:59] <tlab> http://www.indianamls.com/agent_contact_pages/themes/trapezoid_blue/index.php?id=997 this lady is no relation to me that I know of, but maybe distant
[02:50:27] <tlab> she said she had a family member working on a genealogy tree
[02:56:52] <clytle374> We've been contacted by several people working on genealogy, but none of them found a relation. The name in common is other parts of the country.
[02:57:17] <tlab> yea seems around this area, mid-west
[02:57:43] <tlab> I met a couple from Arizona I believe that said they knew of no other Lytles...
[02:59:30] <clytle374> We had a family with the name move in across the street in the midwest, the lady had the same name as my mom.
[02:59:32] <clytle374> Poor mailman
[03:01:50] <tlab> we have some fam out in Cali and Oregon
[03:07:02] <tlab> tired, going to bed I have a 6 page paper to write tomorrow ya
[03:10:49] <clytle374> anyone tried this Xenomai? It's mentioned on the EMC page.
[04:20:35] <elmo40> P=IV, if you want 5Hp and 120V you will use xAmperes. if you want 5Hp with 240V you use .5xAmperes
[04:20:35] <pfred1> the link on page 29 of http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf is no good anymore
[04:20:48] <elmo40> that was the formula i was looking for, not v=ir
[04:21:04] <pfred1> elmo40 if you want 5 HP on 120V you'll burn your house down!
[04:21:05] <elmo40> so, when you raise the voltage you drop the current load.
[04:22:16] <elmo40> pfred1: whatever. it will run, just consume approx 50Amps :P
[04:22:47] <elmo40> too much draw on one side of the transformer, not a good way to load balance your breaker panel
[04:23:18] <elmo40> but i digress, it was an example.
[04:23:23] <pfred1> I have 2 220V lines in my garage I do need another though
[04:23:30] <SWPadnos> if you find a single phase 50A breaker (for the kind of panel in a house), I'll be surprised
[04:23:52] <SWPadnos> single phase being 120V in a residential panel in the US
[04:23:59] <elmo40> probably will never see one. the wire would have to be 2AWG!
[04:25:02] <SWPadnos> right, which means you can't actually run it on 120V, unless you decide to not use a breaker (and even then, it's unclear as to whether the panel will handle it)
[04:25:21] <elmo40> well, #10 at 20' from the panel. any furthur and you would have to go larger.
[04:25:45] <pfred1> one of my 220 lines is a 6 but it's pretty long
[04:25:50] <elmo40> your panel should handle it. most houses have at least a 100A service.
[04:27:11] <atmega> assuming you could find a 120v 5hp motor... FLR and starting current would be amusing.
[04:27:54] <pfred1> I can't remember if the motor on my compressor has wiring for 120V or not
[04:28:12] <pfred1> I sure as hell didn't actually consider it though
[04:28:54] <SWPadnos> compressors that run on standard 120V service and are labeled 5HP are lying to you
[04:28:57] <pfred1> I swear motors run on 220V start up snappier than they do on 120 too
[04:29:02] <atmega> my 240vac 5hp only pulls 21A when running
[04:29:18] <pfred1> SWPadnos my compressor has a Weg brand 5 HP motor on it
[04:29:22] <SWPadnos> since the max current you can get from a standard outlet is 15A, 20A for the special ones with one horizontal blade
[04:29:22] <elmo40> atmega: and it should only pull that.
[04:29:39] <SWPadnos> 5HP is ~750 * 5 = 3750W
[04:29:57] <SWPadnos> which would be ?30A at 120V, assuming that's the input power rather than the output power
[04:30:02] <SWPadnos> >30A
[04:30:22] <pfred1> SWPadnos it also didn't come with any plug I have it in a 30A 220 outlet
[04:30:35] <SWPadnos> which would require two cords, plugged into two circuits (since the standard outlets are only rated for 20A aggregate)
[04:31:10] <SWPadnos> sure, 5HP on 220V is fine, but not 120V, which I thinkj we were agreeing on
[04:31:12] <SWPadnos> -j
[04:31:17] <pfred1> I bought it at a flea market for $20 but looked it up it's a $500 motor
[04:31:25] <elmo40> it was an example.
[04:31:33] <elmo40> 5hp on 120 is insane.
[04:31:45] <elmo40> current load is too great for normal household setup
[04:31:48] <atmega> I've seen lots of 2hp with 120 wiring and a few 3hp (real rated motors)
[04:31:54] <elmo40> doesnt mean they do not exist ;)
[04:32:15] <pfred1> it was a while ago but i may have been able to wire that motor 120
[04:32:28] <atmega> on another note, are all the p-port GND's connected together?
[04:32:31] <pfred1> but if I did I'd have burned my house down!
[04:32:46] <elmo40> 3Hp is the rated max for 120VAC.
[04:33:53] <pfred1> atmega donno i just lashed together one axis n my desk here and used the gnd for the data
[04:34:23] <pfred1> atmega this is what I used: http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Parallel_PC_Port.html
[04:34:51] <pfred1> atmega I was running data off pin 2 so I used 19 as the ground it worked
[04:35:12] <pfred1> atmega but really ground should be ground
[04:35:35] <atmega> yeah
[04:35:56] <atmega> but, I was only going to grab one, wanted to make sure they were all hooked up
[04:36:00] <pfred1> you could try rining them out with a meter see if they tone
[04:36:06] <pfred1> ringing even
[04:37:01] <pfred1> I'm so stoked my 100% homebrewed electronics all work
[04:38:06] <atmega> for steppers?
[04:38:08] <pfred1> I do have to finish designing my buffer board
[04:38:13] <pfred1> yes for steppers
[04:38:40] <pfred1> but the breadboarded IC I have going worked on driving one motor driver
[04:38:55] <pfred1> so the whole circuit should work too
[04:39:29] <atmega> how much current?
[04:39:48] <pfred1> atmega where? off the parallel port or the motor driver?
[04:40:05] <atmega> motor driver
[04:40:20] <pfred1> atmega variable 1-3 amps
[04:41:00] <pfred1> oddly motor is rated at 2 amps but runs best at less than half of that
[04:41:12] <pfred1> its actually very finnicky about it
[04:41:21] <atmega> I'm trying to put together various assembled parts, I have two motors rated at 4.3a for parallel
[04:41:27] <pfred1> I have a 15 turn trimmer in there to adjust the current and I need it too
[04:41:55] <pfred1> atmega one thing I learned early on is more power is more trouble
[04:42:08] <atmega> they work fine with old parker drivers, but they want sinking step/direction. I also have someones cloned 3 axis board that says 2.5amps max
[04:42:21] <pfred1> atmega falling edge?
[04:42:41] <pfred1> atmega just use an inverter
[04:44:31] <atmega> or use this 8435 board and hope it doesn't fry
[04:44:35] <pfred1> for all of this stepper stuff I really am liking schmitt trigger inverters 74141
[04:44:46] <pfred1> 7414s even
[04:45:13] <pfred1> atmega homs laws are your friends
[04:45:25] <pfred1> ohms even damn I must be getting tired
[04:46:05] <pfred1> don't hope it doesn't fry measure the current draws calculate what you need and what you needto get it
[04:46:45] <atmega> I need to buy geckos
[04:47:13] <pfred1> mariss isn't rich enough?
[04:47:42] <pfred1> my motor drivers cost me about $10 to make
[04:48:27] <atmega> my parkers were free :)
[04:48:37] <pfred1> evne better
[04:49:30] <pfred1> here's one of my drivers: http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6498/stepproto1.jpg
[04:50:15] <atmega> wow, that's some $10
[04:50:29] <pfred1> atmega just the brown board in the front
[04:50:58] <pfred1> atmega the back is a prototype breadboarded to prove out the circuit
[04:51:07] <atmega> yeah, but all the misc. stuff you have laying around adds up
[04:51:17] <pfred1> atmega ICs most of them are like a quarter
[04:51:21] <atmega> terminal strips, heat sinks, etc
[04:51:33] <pfred1> atmega nah i strip heatsinks out of junk electronics
[04:51:41] <pfred1> I got a whole box of the things
[04:52:03] <pfred1> plus i used to work assembling electronics I used to get garbage bags of parts
[04:52:26] <pfred1> like that terminal strip I got a whole package of them from there
[04:52:34] <atmega> I used to get my son to pull things apart for me, too old now though.
[04:52:58] <pfred1> heh stripping electronics is an art
[04:53:18] <pfred1> I got this thing called a solder pot I put the board over it yank parts out
[04:53:35] <pfred1> top of it is about 3" in diameter molten solder
[04:53:41] <atmega> heh... has to be a lot quicker than my method... one leg at a time
[04:53:50] <pfred1> nope that doesn't work
[04:53:55] <pfred1> use a blow torch its better
[04:54:16] <atmega> heh, he would probably do that for me with the blow torch.
[04:54:21] <pfred1> you get an empty cardboard box flow the bottom of the board and swat it fast int othe box its called heating it and beating it
[04:54:35] <pfred1> do it right parts just fall out
[04:55:06] <pfred1> but you have to empty the box between shots or the solder hits the parts you just took off
[04:55:22] <pfred1> some people use heat guns
[04:55:43] <pfred1> leg at a time you'll end up burning parts out before you get them out of the board tearing legs off etc
[04:56:32] <pfred1> me i hold the board with a pair of pump pliers in the molten solder and with a pick tool flip out the parts
[04:56:49] <pfred1> takes me like a second to pop out a 64 leg IC
[04:57:36] <atmega> fortunately I don't have much of a need for those.
[04:58:21] <pfred1> some parts still don't come up clean no matter what you do
[04:58:32] <pfred1> holes in boards are too small or parts just too delicate
[04:59:17] <pfred1> me i think its worth stripping an old tube TV just for the heatsinks in it
[04:59:25] <pfred1> old TVs got some nice heatsinks in there
[05:00:11] <pfred1> there a thread on cnczone about guys stripping commercial copiers
[05:00:35] <pfred1> pulling like 285 oz/in motors timing belts all kinds of stuff
[05:01:12] <pfred1> and the copiers have the ICs in them to run the motors too!
[05:02:00] <pfred1> bearings guide rails copiers are loaded
[05:26:10] <elmo40> wow, that strong of a motor?
[05:29:38] <atmega> perhaps you hold the paper in place and the copier moves underneath it.
[06:15:31] <elmo40> how does this kit sound? http://www.xylotex.com/3AxSysKit-425.htm
[06:16:14] <elmo40> $50 for a 425 oz.in. motor? Sounds good to me
[06:17:02] <elmo40> they say they are too powerful for a Sherline or Taig conversion ;)
[06:27:08] <atmega> I've never used them, but if I were going to bjy that much stuff, I'd lean toward a G540
[06:39:38] <elmo40> for that kind of price?
[06:40:11] <atmega> $250 for the drive, whatever for the motors, plus a power supply
[06:40:25] <elmo40> even comes with the power supply
[06:41:17] <atmega> so, same price for the most part.
[06:58:17] <elmo40> anyone see this? i cant get it working, looks interesting though
[06:58:19] <elmo40> http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=35
[06:59:33] <elmo40> love their header pic ;) http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/styles/prosilver/imageset/cnc-club-header.png
[08:00:34] <MrSunshine> http://vk5dj.mountgambier.org/Beam/AS5040/AS5040-45.html <-- does that magnet just have to rotate straight above that chip for it to give outputs ?
[08:03:27] <bill2or3> looks like it, yeah.
[08:03:45] <bill2or3> rotate so the poles are trading places each 1/2 rotation.
[08:04:32] <MrSunshine> looks like a neat little device =)
[08:04:41] <MrSunshine> maybe should buy a few and encode the stepper motors :P
[08:05:32] <bill2or3> the reprap peeps sell a magnetic encoder, if you want to get pcb's
[08:06:25] <MrSunshine> but can emc do steppermotor + encoder for place adjustment if it starts to step over? :)
[08:07:00] <bill2or3> dunno.
[08:20:05] <bill2or3> I think they were used for extruder motor speed feedback.
[08:36:13] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQGP97mWWm8&NR=1 auuch ?
[08:51:14] <MrSunshine> is there any tools for milling ceramic materials ... or what i should call it .. klinkers etc :)
[08:51:35] <MrSunshine> maybe not called that in english
[08:51:41] <MrSunshine> the tiles that are in a bathroom :)
[09:26:31] <WalterN> MrSunshine: Porcelain?
[12:08:40] <jthornton> morning
[12:09:33] <robotito> m
[12:51:15] <jthornton> dang, this mobo don't like this HD...
[12:55:59] <Valen> jthornton whay you say that?
[12:57:17] <jthornton> when it gets to detecting the HD the mobo shuts down
[12:58:26] <jthornton> if I unplug the HD it will go to the bios screen
[12:59:27] <Valen> yeah thats sucky
[13:00:00] <Valen> things to check, master/slave/cable select is set right, cable is right way up (old cables let you plug in any which way)
[13:00:21] <jthornton> cable is keyed, master set
[13:00:58] <tlab> will the HD work in another computer?
[13:01:00] <jthornton> I'll try cable select
[13:01:16] <tlab> HD maybe going bad
[13:01:16] <Valen> anything else on that cable?
[13:01:21] <jthornton> it did before the old mobo died or was it the HD all along
[13:01:25] <jthornton> no
[13:01:35] <Valen> does it spin up when power is applied?
[13:01:43] <jthornton> didn't check that
[13:01:58] <Valen> double check the power is connected too btw
[13:02:02] <Valen> done that plenty of times
[13:02:14] <jthornton> feels like it spins up
[13:02:47] <jthornton> I'll try another HD
[13:03:32] <jthornton> different drive works fine
[13:03:59] <tlab> check see if that drive works in another computer, if not the HD is bad
[13:05:01] <jthornton> that drive was in my 8.04 computer that I do the docs with... I wonder if the drive was the reason it stopped booting up
[13:05:10] <Valen> could well be
[13:05:11] <jthornton> good thing I didn't blow it up yet
[13:05:14] <Valen> lol
[13:05:46] <jthornton> I'll pop some parts back in the Gateway and see if it boots up
[13:21:58] <izua_> izua_ is now known as izua
[13:38:32] <jthornton> That was close, the Gateway still works and it was going to get blown up this afternoon
[13:40:51] <robotito> pIII?
[13:42:03] <jthornton> the Gateway is an Athlon 64 3500+
[13:46:52] <jthornton> I think I can find a PIII to sacrifice in it's place out in the garage :)
[13:54:14] <jthornton> Weee I'm installing 8.04.4 on the (what I thought was dead) Gateway
[14:20:58] <numen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27NX_MMIkLY&feature=channel
[14:40:40] <jthornton> well the Gateway is back up and running now to get git
[14:52:24] <JT-Dev_> I installed 8.04.4 then tried to get git-core from the package manager but get this error http://imagebin.ca/view/QrywMfS.html
[14:53:20] <JT-Dev_> was it a mistake to install 8.04.4?
[15:02:25] <cradek> JT-Dev_: enable universe
[15:02:32] <cradek> (I think)
[15:02:47] <JT-Dev_> cradek: thanks
[15:06:05] <JT-Dev_> hmmm, those were enabled all ready
[15:07:42] <JT-Dev_> a reload fixed it
[15:08:08] <JT-Dev_> we are getting git now
[15:11:59] <JT-Dev_> git clone will keep it busy for a while I'm sure
[15:55:27] <aa-danimal-shop> morning
[15:58:50] <jthornton> morning Dan
[15:59:02] <mk0> evening!
[15:59:32] <aa-danimal-shop> hows it going John
[15:59:33] <skunkworks> Mornings take it! ;)
[16:00:25] <archivist> as gmt rules, its afternoon!
[16:00:35] <jthornton> well I figured out that the HD was the problem on my Gateway that I do the docs on so getting that one all set back up atm
[16:00:57] <jthornton> archivist: is the closest one to gmt I think
[16:01:20] <skunkworks> :)
[16:02:14] <jthornton> * jthornton wanders back out to the shop to try and figure out what wires make things move in the turret :)
[16:04:16] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[16:04:29] <aa-danimal-shop> have fun!
[16:20:35] <JT-Hardinge> well the 15 MFD cap got the line voltages within 1-2 volts on the phase converter
[16:22:35] <aa-danimal-shop> thats pretty good, huh?
[16:24:04] <JT-Hardinge> yea, it is better than the other one I have at the other shop
[16:26:35] <aa-danimal-shop> better than my rotophase too i think
[16:26:58] <aa-danimal-shop> but i hardly use that anymore, i have a vfd on almost every machine now
[16:27:10] <aa-danimal-shop> except the surface grinder
[16:28:23] <aa-danimal-shop> there, just set up my external coolant tank and pump on the mill
[16:29:19] <aa-danimal-shop> the old coolant tank was in the base of the machine, which is cast iron so it turned my coolant into rusty water
[16:30:21] <aa-danimal-shop> so i set up a 10 gallon external tank and pump, with another pump in the base of the mill to pump out any coolant that might make it in there. it cycles on for a few seconds every 20 seconds
[16:31:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i might put a float switch in there or something
[16:32:18] <aa-danimal-shop> (cycles on only when the coolant is running)
[16:42:31] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: I use sodium nitrite in my plasma water to keep it from rusting
[16:43:24] <aa-danimal-shop> hmmm where do you get that?
[16:45:15] <jthornton> ebay
[16:47:05] <aa-danimal-shop> how much do you use?
[16:47:39] <jthornton> not much about 1 tbs per 5 gallons if memory serves me today
[16:48:10] <jthornton> don't know what that would do to your cutting fluid...
[16:48:35] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm
[16:48:38] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[16:49:07] <jthornton> my plasma water is just sodium nitrite and an some stuff to prevent things from growing in the water
[16:49:56] <aa-danimal-shop> yummy
[16:51:48] <JT-Hardinge> physan 20\
[16:52:22] <fluorine> hello gentlemen
[16:52:23] <JT-Hardinge> algaecide, fungicide, bactericide, virucide it's for water fountians
[16:52:44] <JT-Hardinge> I know fluorine was not talking to me LOL
[16:53:28] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[16:53:30] <fluorine> JT-Hardinge: gentlemen and lady? :)
[16:53:56] <aa-danimal-shop> are you dipping your feet in there or something? lol
[16:54:32] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, did you make your turret ladder yet?
[16:54:50] <fluorine> entry 32: const char weirdness. gcc isn't including the 0x20s in my string? needed to declare static. strange strange.
[16:54:59] <fluorine> grrr screen
[16:55:59] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: no
[16:56:24] <JT-Hardinge> fluorine: I'm a redneck :)
[16:56:42] <aa-danimal-shop> mine's still working fine... not sure if i changed it since the one i gave you, but i can send the most recent one
[16:57:06] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[16:57:21] <JT-Hardinge> I may try Kirk's comp for the turret
[16:57:27] <JT-Hardinge> too
[16:57:28] <aa-danimal-shop> havent had a "misshift" since i adjusted the magnet
[16:58:14] <aa-danimal-shop> cool....he did it all in C+ or somethnig, right?
[16:58:24] <aa-danimal-shop> and in hal
[16:58:28] <JT-Hardinge> he did a comp
[16:58:40] <JT-Hardinge> did you read about it on the forum?
[16:58:41] <aa-danimal-shop> not too sure what a comp is :)
[16:58:52] <aa-danimal-shop> no i just joined the forum
[16:59:09] <aa-danimal-shop> my only post is in your thread
[16:59:47] <JT-Hardinge> things like wsum abs ect are comps
[17:00:13] <JT-Hardinge> you loadrt the comp and the pins are there to hook up to
[17:00:30] <JT-Hardinge> then if needed you addf it to a thread so it gets updated
[17:01:36] <aa-danimal-shop> oh that
[17:01:39] <aa-danimal-shop> ok
[17:01:54] <aa-danimal-shop> yea i dont know technical terms :)
[17:02:01] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[17:03:45] <WalterN> hi aa-danimal-shop
[17:05:39] <aa-danimal-shop> hi WalterN
[17:06:03] <WalterN> still looking at knives
[17:06:04] <WalterN> heh
[17:07:12] <aa-danimal-shop> a surface grinder will probably be cheaper than the knives lol
[17:07:41] <WalterN> $200?
[17:13:53] <isssy> hi all
[17:14:49] <isssy> has anybody tested the oxford chips for paralel port , with the netmos chips , we found that the hostmot2 is not working
[17:15:31] <skunkworks> on the list - I think peter from mesa listed the boards that he has tried.
[17:16:05] <isssy> on the list????
[17:16:09] <isssy> where?
[17:17:03] <isssy> there are many atom embeded boards , but unfortunately they have not a parport
[17:17:25] <isssy> dell is selling minipci boards with 1 paralel and 1 serial port
[17:17:34] <isssy> verry nice solution
[17:17:55] <skunkworks> the atom board I have has a printer port. It is intel made
[17:18:01] <isssy> combined with the mesa 7i43....
[17:18:03] <skunkworks> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user
[17:18:41] <pcw_home> Many common Atom cards (and even some 510 based ones) have parallel ports
[17:18:56] <isssy> i am talking for embeded boards 3,5 inch
[17:19:16] <isssy> small , fanless
[17:19:27] <isssy> only 5V power supply
[17:20:03] <pcw_home> I think many of the Mini ITX have parallel (and some are 12V only)
[17:21:10] <isssy> they are too big for me
[17:22:15] <isssy> look at www.aewin.com.tw
[17:22:21] <isssy> look for EM-5300
[17:22:28] <isssy> at the embeded boards
[17:23:14] <pcw_home> Parallel is less likely on and embedded card, Why do you need it to be so small. Its likely to really limit your choices
[17:24:12] <isssy> this card is for industrial application , and combined with the mesa 7i43 , os verry cheap and small as dimentions solution
[17:24:52] <isssy> the whole emc can be fitted in a flash card
[17:25:09] <isssy> bether than this for industrial , i can't imagine
[17:25:38] <isssy> whole cnc controler in 3,5 inch case....
[17:27:10] <aa-danimal-shop> i'd rather not be able to loose my cnc controller in my shop
[17:28:14] <pcw_home> unless the machine is small I would think a few inches larger controller would be not be a problem
[17:38:59] <WalterN> http://faceball.org/
[17:40:08] <tom3p> take a look at aec's older models, and how long they were available.
[17:40:54] <isssy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vUXwvy6BE0
[17:41:03] <JT-Hardinge> well, I know what does what on the turret now :)
[17:43:30] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[17:43:44] <aa-danimal-shop> there's only a couple of things
[17:43:49] <aa-danimal-shop> makes it easy
[17:47:25] <JT-Hardinge> yea, the lift and spin is 120vac and the lock is 24v
[17:47:37] <aa-danimal-shop> it is???
[17:47:40] <aa-danimal-shop> mine isnt
[17:54:45] <aa-danimal-shop> mine's all 12v
[17:54:52] <aa-danimal-shop> well actually 15v
[17:58:20] <JT-Hardinge> yea, all the valves are 120vac except for the turret lock
[17:59:44] <aa-danimal-shop> my valves are also 120vac, except for the turret stuff
[18:00:05] <aa-danimal-shop> the up/spin and stop are both 15v
[18:38:23] <ries> frallzor: dude
[18:39:11] <frallzor> yeeeeees? =)
[18:46:05] <frallzor> how did you drill the rails?
[18:46:40] <frallzor> im thinking off placing them as correct as possible first, then fasten them, then pilotdrill and then do the rest
[19:41:00] <Jymmm> I picked up some open spools of 8 and 10 ga wire yesterday, both for $30.
[19:41:44] <Jymmm> 9lbs of 8ga ~= 189ft, 10lbs of 10ga ~= 330ft
[19:42:30] <skunkworks> is copper back up to $3 a pound? ;)
[19:43:11] <skunkworks> oh - wait - I read it as 101lbs ;)
[19:44:10] <Jymmm> If that's true, I'm going back and buying the other spools!
[19:44:24] <skunkworks> heh
[19:46:06] <Jymmm> 8ga @ 0.007/ft and 10ga @ 0.004/ft - I think I made out pretty good.
[19:46:23] <skunkworks> nice
[19:47:16] <Jymmm> Assuming this chart I'm reading is true.... 1lb of 8ga = 21ft and 1lb of 10ga = 33ft
[19:49:01] <Jymmm> One spool was marked $20, but he gave me both spools for $15/ea... works for me =)
[20:05:05] <aa-danimal-shop> nice
[20:06:20] <aa-danimal-shop> what are you going to do with that
[20:06:42] <aa-danimal-shop> you dont have a machine that needs 10ga, nevermind 8ga
[20:07:32] <aa-danimal-shop> unless you're planning on running 20 of your mills off of one outlet
[20:07:40] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[20:18:46] <aa-danimal-shop> is it working??
[20:19:34] <JT-Hardinge> yes and no
[20:20:03] <JT-Hardinge> LOL all the valves in the stack are 120vac except the lift and spin which has a 24vdc coil
[20:20:50] <aa-danimal-shop> yea i thought 120vac seemed weird
[20:20:56] <aa-danimal-shop> mine are 15v
[20:21:08] <JT-Hardinge> I was thinking about hooking it up to the 7i37 but after reading the manual I sure I don't have any free wheeling diodes what ever that is
[20:21:27] <JT-Hardinge> is your valve in the carriage?
[20:21:46] <JT-Hardinge> my lift and spin is down below with the rest of the valves
[20:22:03] <aa-danimal-shop> yea all valves are in the carriage
[20:22:24] <JT-Hardinge> I only have the lock valve in the carriage
[20:22:36] <aa-danimal-shop> really
[20:22:40] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm
[20:22:42] <robh> john u have SSRs that drive the values no? they have dicodes access them u may have to swop em around if u want to gnd signal it etc then u can drive them direct from 7i37
[20:22:52] <aa-danimal-shop> so did you burn up the valve?
[20:22:54] <JT-Hardinge> I do now
[20:22:56] <JT-Hardinge> no
[20:23:40] <JT-Hardinge> robh: it is easier to just use an unused 120vac coil
[20:23:50] <JT-Hardinge> I have one of them that is not used
[20:24:32] <JT-Hardinge> I guess from the original wiring that the lift and spin and lock was controlled through the interface board
[20:25:00] <JT-Hardinge> and that is why they didn't use an SSR on that one...
[20:27:44] <aa-danimal-shop> ooooh new updates
[20:28:04] <aa-danimal-shop> i figured the next version would be 2.4
[20:36:47] <JT-Hardinge> I switched coils and now it is better :)
[20:36:57] <aa-danimal-shop> yay!
[20:37:43] <aa-danimal-shop> do you have to adjust the encoder magnet at all?
[20:38:17] <JT-Hardinge> my turret encoder is not working atm a blown cap, replacement on the way
[20:44:44] <JT-Hardinge> the coil on the lock valve draws 1.8 watts at 24v. can I control that directly with the 7i37?
[20:48:58] <aa-danimal-shop> the manual should say, i dont recall but i know 24v isnt an issue
[20:49:08] <aa-danimal-shop> i think it can handle 1 amp
[20:49:22] <aa-danimal-shop> but dont quote me
[20:50:10] <pcw_home> 7I37 is 1A so 24W maximum @24V
[20:51:11] <aa-danimal-shop> thats what i thought
[20:51:27] <aa-danimal-shop> you're only drawing .075a
[20:52:49] <alex_joni> JT-Hardinge: cool
[20:53:23] <alex_joni> aa-danimal-shop: you won't get 2.4.x as an automatic update probably
[20:55:57] <aa-danimal-shop> ah ok
[20:57:02] <aa-danimal-shop> when is it avalible? i'm looking forward to that feature to prevent accidental homing
[20:58:52] <JT-Hardinge> pcw_home: so I don't need one of the free wheeling diodes on that one?
[20:58:54] <alex_joni> it's in feature freeze atm, so probably around end of the month
[20:59:17] <JT-Hardinge> alex_joni: hi
[20:59:50] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i think you really only need that for relays but i could be wrong
[21:00:07] <aa-danimal-shop> alex_joni, thanks for the info
[21:00:26] <JT-Hardinge> the coil on the valve is similar to a relay coil
[21:00:49] <aa-danimal-shop> i cant believe my manual lathe can take a 1/4" DOC in 4" diameter heat treated 4340
[21:01:11] <aa-danimal-shop> with a crappy harbor freight single phase 1hp motor
[21:01:28] <aa-danimal-shop> and a overhead flat belt drive
[21:01:45] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, true. i didnt use one though
[21:01:52] <pcw_home> JT-Hardinge, often the free-wheeling diode is on the coil of the soleoid
[21:02:02] <pcw_home> solenoid
[21:02:20] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[21:02:47] <JT-Hardinge> it is a good mac valve :)
[21:05:31] <pcw_home> For small loads (like you have) you can get along without the diode but it will make more electrical noise
[21:06:07] <pcw_home> (when it switches off)
[21:07:36] <JT-Hardinge> ok, thanks
[21:37:48] <JT-Hardinge> so the turret function is: release lock, wait a short time, spin to new tool, wait a short time, lock spindle
[21:38:34] <aa-danimal-shop> well you might have issues with that
[21:39:21] <JT-Hardinge> hows that Dan?
[21:39:53] <aa-danimal-shop> i have it like this: up/spin, stop engage, wait a little, disengage up/spin, wait a little, disengage stop
[21:40:34] <aa-danimal-shop> you need to have the up/spin engaged for a few hundred miliseconds after you fire the stop piston
[21:40:57] <JT-Hardinge> ok, to stop the turret from rotating
[21:41:18] <aa-danimal-shop> and the stop isnt engaged full time...it's just for stopping it till it settles on the blocks
[21:41:28] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[21:41:54] <aa-danimal-shop> if you remove the turret, you will see 4 tapered blocks, that's what keeps it in place.
[21:42:50] <aa-danimal-shop> there's a big air piston that raises and lowers it, and it pulls it down hard on those 4 blocks so it wont budge
[21:45:54] <aa-danimal-shop> on mine, i keep the turret up/spin coil active for 100ms after the stop is engaged, and it disengages the stop 600ms after it's stopped
[21:53:50] <JT-Hardinge> I've saved all this and time to connect a few wires up :) for some inputs
[22:18:56] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: I see what you mean about the turret behavior now
[22:19:19] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[22:19:37] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek tipped me off to that
[22:20:43] <aa-danimal-shop> i was fighting with it for a while till he said something
[22:20:54] <ries> frallzor: happen to be here'
[22:21:22] <aa-danimal-shop> do you have the wsum all figured out?
[22:21:34] <JT-Hardinge> yea, that is no problem
[22:22:10] <aa-danimal-shop> i had to have an arithmatic expression because it was off one
[22:22:21] <aa-danimal-shop> i changed it from 0-7 to 1-8
[22:25:52] <Jymmm> -1-6
[22:26:56] <aa-danimal-shop> no, it's not a Jymmm machine
[22:29:49] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHhqV_QhzE
[22:33:01] <pfred1> do I need all of these inputs and outputs on page 9 of /home/pfred1/Downloads/PDFs/EMC2/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf ?
[22:33:35] <aa-danimal-shop> i cant follow the link to your HDD lol
[22:33:47] <pfred1> oh right sorry
[22:34:21] <pfred1> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf
[22:35:12] <pfred1> under Pinout Information
[22:35:59] <JT-Hardinge> depends on what your machine needs
[22:37:12] <pfred1> I guess I'm just getting excited to get things running and tired of designing this board
[22:37:27] <pfred1> it is a very boring board to design
[22:38:46] <pfred1> well I'm going to be one short on all of the outputs I am using 8 channel buffers and I'm not throwing another one on for one output
[22:40:13] <pfred1> or should I say I'd prefer not to throw another one on for one output
[22:41:08] <pfred1> oh wait i could use a channel on the input in reverse couldn't I?
[22:41:30] <pfred1> hmmm makes it a bit more interesting for me at least
[22:42:17] <pfred1> yeah I'll have 3 unused on that buffer I can use one of those!
[22:48:49] <pfred1> my brain is turning into mush working on this: http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9889/bob2partial.png
[22:54:53] <micges> pfred1: here is what I'm working at: http://imagebin.ca/view/gRUUwS.html
[22:55:41] <micges> it's scary :)
[22:56:16] <pfred1> micges under file there is an export option to make schematic pngs
[22:57:30] <micges> wow cool
[22:57:34] <pfred1> :)
[22:57:42] <micges> didn't know about that, thanks
[22:57:46] <pfred1> np
[22:58:09] <pfred1> micges the pdf option is handy too
[22:59:09] <pfred1> micges i usually like running Eagle but this schematic I'm making now is just too repetitive i guess or something
[23:00:25] <micges> for io there will be always repetitve
[23:00:59] <pfred1> micges yes I'm starting to learn that I sort of drifted away from digital a few years back
[23:01:46] <pfred1> micges really until this project I've pretty much avoided working with digital like the plague
[23:03:44] <micges> here we have the same with analog signals :)
[23:03:57] <pfred1> no analog is cool
[23:05:21] <skunkworks> heh - I agree with micges
[23:24:25] <micges> good night all
[23:54:54] <tom3p> jmkasunich: no problem, when & if you can. thanks