#emc | Logs for 2010-02-23

[00:07:05] <Valen> i'm off to our mill, going to try and get the rotary table running
[00:07:35] <jackc> nice
[00:07:36] <jackc> take pics
[00:07:59] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2N910jNOnE
[00:11:04] <jackc> whoa that baby goes really quickly
[00:13:55] <Valen> thats half speed too lol
[00:13:56] <Valen> bbl
[00:14:13] <jackc> damn
[00:30:10] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[01:17:17] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[01:17:43] <aa-danimal-shop> shop photos!: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shop/
[01:28:27] <aa-danimal-shop> yawn
[01:29:40] <ds3> is the flatbelt lathe operational?
[01:31:15] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[01:31:21] <aa-danimal-shop> use it all the time
[01:31:39] <ds3> couldn't see the belt on the pulley
[01:31:58] <aa-danimal-shop> it's there somewhere
[01:32:13] <aa-danimal-shop> might be blocked in the pic
[01:35:54] <i_tarzan> emc powered?
[01:37:05] <aa-danimal-shop> the cnc shizuoka mill and the cnc hardinge lathe are
[01:37:58] <aa-danimal-shop> i was just thinking it might be pretty cool to emc my surface grinder
[01:38:47] <ds3> a Z axis crash could be uh... interesting
[01:38:56] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:39:08] <aa-danimal-shop> as with any automatic grider
[01:39:13] <aa-danimal-shop> grinder*
[02:05:46] <JT-Hardinge> it's amazing how much better a band saw will cut when the teeth face the correct direction :/
[02:06:41] <jackc> haha
[02:06:57] <skunkworks> yikes :)
[02:07:01] <jackc> anyone have an example conf using the parport to drive an H-bridge servo nad read a quad encoder?
[02:07:12] <jackc> i want to test my servo out without buying a mesa/etc
[02:07:16] <jackc> *servos
[02:07:31] <skunkworks> look at the etch-o-sketch setup
[02:07:45] <jackc> skunkworks: ahh i recall reading that a long time ago, let me try to find it
[02:08:04] <skunkworks> you will have to tweek it - but it is close
[02:08:19] <jackc> found it - reading
[02:09:35] <jackc> http://axis.unpy.net/etchcnc
[02:09:43] <jackc> seems to use steppers - wasnt there a servo one?
[02:10:13] <skunkworks> that was the first try..
[02:10:23] <skunkworks> look at the etch config within emc
[02:11:00] <jackc> ok ill pull it up when i get home
[02:11:30] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge: it does help
[02:11:59] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge: shop pics: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shop/
[02:16:39] <JT-Hardinge> Dan you can come by here next week if your still in the cleaning mood :)
[02:16:59] <aa-danimal-shop> ha
[02:17:16] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i'm done
[02:17:24] <aa-danimal-shop> no more cleaning till next year
[02:17:32] <JT-Hardinge> LOL
[02:17:49] <aa-danimal-shop> It was pretty bad
[02:17:59] <aa-danimal-shop> i did ALOT of work to get it where it is
[02:18:29] <skunkworks> jackc: http://emergent.unpythonic.net/projects/01142347802
[02:22:17] <aa-danimal-shop> all my machines put together weigh about 1/4 of skunkworks's mill
[02:28:41] <skunkworks> heh
[02:29:04] <skunkworks> each part weighs 6ton
[02:29:17] <aa-danimal-shop> how many parts?
[02:30:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i got about 9 tons of iron in here
[02:30:26] <skunkworks> the table assembly and the y axis assembly. then add the tool and pallet changers.
[02:31:33] <aa-danimal-shop> my mill is about 3.5 tons i think
[02:32:09] <ds3> did you move them in yourself?
[02:32:18] <aa-danimal-shop> me? yes
[02:34:47] <ds3> how did you move 9tons?
[02:34:48] <jackc> skunkworks: thanks a ton
[02:35:59] <aa-danimal-shop> oh i ment all my machines together weigh about 9 tons
[02:36:12] <aa-danimal-shop> heaviest machine is about 3.5 tons
[02:36:41] <aa-danimal-shop> and i used pipes, floor jacks, straps, come-alongs, and beer
[02:37:23] <ds3> any videos or pictures of the moving adventure?
[02:37:43] <aa-danimal-shop> na, never had time
[02:41:22] <jackc> my lathe weighs 70lb
[02:41:24] <jackc> * jackc lame :-/
[02:41:49] <aa-danimal-shop> better than no lathe, right?
[02:41:53] <jackc> oh for sure
[02:42:01] <aa-danimal-shop> there ya go
[02:42:20] <jackc> the sooner i get it EMC-ized the better
[02:42:43] <frysteev> jackc: mini lathe too?
[02:42:51] <jackc> frysteev: yep, 30" benchtop
[02:42:57] <jackc> still bigger than my mill ;-)
[02:43:09] <frysteev> cool
[02:43:13] <jackc> http://www.crepinc.com/2010/02/22/new-lathe/
[02:43:17] <frysteev> i have a 7x12 minilathe
[02:43:59] <aa-danimal-shop> my hardinge is only like 8x12
[02:44:08] <aa-danimal-shop> and it's 2500lbs
[02:44:25] <frysteev> mine is like 70 i think
[02:46:08] <jackc> aa-danimal-shop: i bet it holds great tolerances though eh?
[02:46:36] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm sure
[02:47:07] <aa-danimal-shop> havent tested it much yet, but if you tell it to move .0001", it moves .0001"
[02:47:35] <frysteev> im not buying any tools i cant lift myself until i am not renting
[02:47:41] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[02:48:03] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i waited till i bought my house before i got any heavy equipment
[02:48:19] <jackc> frysteev: i feel that
[02:48:33] <jackc> still cant find a mill that fits my needs :-/;
[02:48:55] <frysteev> ahh
[02:48:59] <frysteev> what are your needs?
[02:49:39] <jackc> that i can carry it, hold 1/2EM, and Y axis at least 6"
[02:49:48] <jackc> or at least move it with friends
[02:50:05] <ds3> doesn't the Mini mill's do that?
[02:50:06] <jackc> current mill is 1.8"Y and only holds 1/8"EM
[02:50:20] <jackc> ds3: by which company
[02:50:36] <ds3> jackc: the usually importers that do the minilathe... HF, Grizzly, etc
[02:50:53] <frysteev> im still getting mine setup, but its work area is like 13x20"
[02:51:19] <jackc> frysteev: thats epic
[02:51:31] <jackc> ds3: the HF minis do 4" Y, IIRC
[02:51:37] <jackc> but ive been wrong before, ill look again
[02:52:04] <ds3> I think that's the micro mill
[02:52:18] <jackc> ah ok
[02:52:27] <frysteev> jackc: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34832969@N03/4330865247/
[02:52:32] <frysteev> bad pic,
[02:53:24] <jackc> frysteev: lookin good. how much does your spindle weigh? enough that the Z axis falls with no servo power?
[02:53:54] <ds3> jackc: hmmm you are right
[02:54:37] <jackc> ah drat
[02:54:39] <frysteev> im using a rotozip atm
[02:54:47] <ds3> I thought it had more travel
[02:55:03] <frysteev> it stays put on its own
[02:55:11] <jackc> frysteev: what sort of stuff will you be doing with it, boards and such?
[02:55:44] <frysteev> some, and hopefully some aluminum stuff
[02:56:37] <jackc> cool
[02:57:07] <frysteev> im still figuring out my emc setup.
[02:57:45] <jackc> servos or steppers?
[02:58:08] <frysteev> steppers
[02:58:52] <jackc> oh then itll be easy
[02:59:12] <frysteev> i just need to setup the homing location and table info
[02:59:17] <jackc> yeah
[02:59:29] <frysteev> and push it to find out its max speed
[03:00:30] <jackc> yeah thats always fun :-/
[03:01:30] <ds3> jackc: find an importer for this: http://www.siegind.com/product.php?id=7
[03:02:50] <jackc> Page not found - connection failure
[03:02:52] <jackc> just me?
[03:03:07] <ds3> I was just there 1min ago
[03:03:27] <jackc> ah there it goes i think
[03:12:31] <jackc> arg cant get it to fully load
[03:13:25] <skunkworks> where in the world is jackc?
[03:13:52] <jackc> skunkworks: boston
[03:13:55] <jackc> ds3: 100 millimeters = 3.93700787 in
[03:14:06] <ds3> yes
[03:14:07] <ds3> and
[03:14:12] <ds3> it claims 170mm
[03:14:18] <ds3> which is about 6.69"
[03:14:38] <skunkworks> isn't that just a normal x2?
[03:15:06] <jackc> ds3: hm the one you linked claims 100mm Y and 220 X
[03:15:11] <jackc> skunkworks: hm?
[03:15:39] <ds3> arrrgg
[03:15:56] <jackc> skunkworks: where are you?
[03:16:04] <ds3> sorry, off by 1 line
[03:19:15] <jackc> hm their other mills are nice, though i bet not cheap
[03:19:36] <ds3> these guys are the suppliers for HF
[03:19:54] <jackc> HF doesnt seem to have SEIG on their mill list
[03:19:58] <jackc> at least according to the site
[03:20:06] <ds3> HF rebrands them
[03:20:26] <ds3> look at their minilathe line
[03:24:32] <jackc> ahh word
[03:25:43] <jackc> aight leaving the office peace
[03:47:51] <MarkPictor> hi guys
[03:48:43] <MarkPictor> I have a problem with hal_parport. when I try to load it, dmesg gives me a bunch of unknown symbols.
[03:48:53] <MarkPictor> the first one is hal_parport: Unknown symbol parport_register_device
[03:48:53] <cradek> pastebin?
[03:48:59] <MarkPictor> ok
[03:50:13] <MarkPictor> http://pastebin.com/mdc4f874
[03:50:47] <cradek> what emc version are you trying to run?
[03:51:44] <cradek> I bet this is because you don't have the parport modules loaded
[03:51:58] <cradek> for 2.3 you could not have them loaded. for 2.4 you must.
[03:52:43] <MarkPictor> the kernel's parallel port module has to be loaded? probably the problem then.
[03:52:59] <cradek> are you running a 2.4?
[03:53:27] <MarkPictor> I got it from git, I'm not sure what version
[03:54:06] <cradek> do you have a 2.3 package installed? those disable the loading of the parport_pc module.
[03:54:27] <MarkPictor> no but I might have done it by hand :-/
[03:55:34] <MarkPictor> looks like the source files are dated oct 11
[03:57:33] <MarkPictor> thanks cradek, I'll figure out what I did to prevent them from loading...
[03:57:41] <cradek> welcome
[04:00:37] <clytle374> Anyone know if the halscope and halmeter are broken in the git version?
[04:00:52] <cradek> do you mean git master?
[04:01:14] <cradek> they are not broken to my knowledge
[04:01:53] <clytle374> cradek, yeah
[04:02:08] <cradek> need more details
[04:02:32] <clytle374> Just a second.
[04:03:19] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek: shop pics: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shop/
[04:03:29] <cradek> I saw! neat!
[04:03:35] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks!
[04:03:39] <cradek> I should take some of mine...
[04:03:50] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i'd like to see
[04:04:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll probably insulate/drywall within the next month or so
[04:04:30] <aa-danimal-shop> for noise control
[04:05:06] <clytle374> halcmd: <stdin>:1: execv(halscope) failed
[04:05:12] <aa-danimal-shop> i got lucky and scored another monitor to replace the one i dropped
[04:05:28] <aa-danimal-shop> got the same model so my bracket will work
[04:05:30] <clytle374> Hold on, the problem goes deeper
[04:07:09] <clytle374> all of the /usr/realtime/testsuite/user/* tests fail.
[04:07:27] <clytle374> /usr/realtime/testsuite/kern/* tests work fine
[04:07:49] <cradek> those problems may be unrelated
[04:08:02] <cradek> what rtai and kernel are you using?
[04:08:35] <MarkPictor> danimal: mind if I borrow your shop for a year or two?
[04:09:56] <cradek> I just built git master and halscope and halmeter work fine for me
[04:10:05] <clytle374> rtai is magma and the kernel is (Ubuntu generic) or Ubuntu #2.6.31-19.
[04:10:10] <clytle374> roll you own
[04:10:22] <clytle374> emc seems to run
[04:10:45] <cradek> did you carefully check configure's output? halscope and halmeter use libraries that most of emc doesn't.
[04:11:22] <clytle374> um ,well. I'll do that.
[04:11:53] <aa-danimal-shop> yay i can use the lathe again
[04:12:20] <clytle374> cradek, you means like GTK?
[04:12:28] <cradek> yes
[04:12:57] <cradek> "WARNING: GTK2 not found, some utilities (halscope, classicladder) will not be built"
[04:12:58] <clytle374> when does the noob feeling go away;)
[04:13:21] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374: i'll be sure to let you know when it happens for me
[04:13:50] <clytle374> I started Linux on Redhat 5.2?
[04:14:02] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[04:14:27] <cradek> oh yes, the redhat with the screwed up sendmail configuration
[04:14:35] <cradek> good riddance
[04:14:37] <clytle374> I'm going back to gentoo, at least I knew where thing were at. And how to use the tools.
[04:14:38] <aa-danimal-shop> i started on ubuntu 8.04
[04:15:12] <aa-danimal-shop> but i think it was out some time before i touched it
[04:15:23] <clytle374> Grub2 was a surprise for me last night. Looked for ever for /boot/grub/grub.conf
[04:15:39] <MarkPictor> my first linux experience was with some redhat cd's I got cheap. what I didn't know was that it was a prerelease version - an early beta - and was buggy as HELL
[04:15:41] <clytle374> Couldn't figure out how to add my new kernel.
[04:15:54] <MarkPictor> that slowed me down quite a bit
[04:16:16] <clytle374> It was soo cool when I got the sound card and modem to work at the same time.
[04:16:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i still dont know how to get my 2 linux machines on my windows network
[04:16:47] <cradek> I still have the first linux cd I bought, and a few months ago I put together enough antique parts to install it again: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/01188356148/yggdrasil-beta.jpg
[04:17:00] <aa-danimal-shop> so i gotta use a flash drive to transfer files
[04:17:08] <cradek> no screen grabbing program, so I photographed the monitor
[04:17:15] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[04:17:22] <clytle374> nice
[04:17:35] <cradek> I had to assemble a 486 with all scsi to install it
[04:17:45] <cradek> it was pre-IDE
[04:17:56] <aa-danimal-shop> lol wow
[04:18:24] <aa-danimal-shop> i dodnt even get my first computer till like 2001
[04:18:26] <aa-danimal-shop> didnt*&
[04:19:02] <cradek> so I've been using linux since about '94 I guess
[04:19:25] <aa-danimal-shop> wowsers
[04:19:59] <clytle374> that's about its beginning, isn't it?
[04:20:24] <cradek> pretty close - this was before kernel version 1.0
[04:20:47] <cradek> but it worked fine - I used it for college work etc
[04:21:26] <clytle374> Could you do much with it back then?
[04:21:58] <cradek> sure, everything you can do now, but less colorful and flashy, and some of it slower
[04:22:16] <cradek> (well, no manipulating video - computers didn't do that yet)
[04:22:30] <cradek> but how we are talking now? sure
[04:22:54] <cradek> email? sure
[04:22:56] <cradek> trading porn online? sure
[04:22:57] <cradek> haha
[04:23:05] <cradek> what else are computers for
[04:23:08] <clytle374> I got out the old Vic20 about a year ago.
[04:23:25] <clytle374> I think I like the games better
[04:23:28] <cradek> ah -- now that's pre-porn
[04:24:00] <cradek> you could still run a modem with it though, and connect to other computers
[04:24:03] <clytle374> I had an ASCII_CAD drawing of a naked girl, does that count?
[04:24:12] <cradek> barely :-)
[04:29:48] <clytle374> are the /usr/realtime/testsuite/user/* tests failing a problem?
[04:30:04] <cradek> I don't know
[04:30:16] <cradek> emc does not use userland realtime
[04:30:44] <clytle374> good.
[04:32:30] <MarkPictor> skunkworks: getting closer... http://imagebin.org/86154
[04:34:34] <aa-danimal-shop> ahh the good old days of interweb porn
[04:34:47] <MarkPictor> cradek: now I get "PARPORT: ERROR: linux parport parport0 does not support mode 2" in dmesg
[04:35:27] <MarkPictor> pretty sure I have ecp and epp enabled in bios...
[04:35:39] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[04:36:22] <clytle374> cradek, I take it your not a fan of Gentoo?
[04:37:01] <cradek> clytle374: I've never used it
[04:38:18] <voxadam> Has anyone looked into porting EMC to run on PREEMPT_RT patched kernels without the aid of RTAI or RTLinux?
[04:39:04] <cradek> voxadam: I think it's been done but you can't get much more than 1ms response - seems like it MIGHT be ok for servo machines
[04:40:15] <voxadam> From a LinuxForDevices.com today: "The "latest stable" version released in June, which is similar to the later release, was said to have achieved latency as low as 39 microseconds."
[04:40:40] <cradek> clytle374: that means hal is asking for a parport that "can tristate"
[04:40:46] <cradek> clytle374: so yeah, check your bios settings
[04:41:15] <MarkPictor> cradek: errrm, I think you were talking to me? :-)
[04:41:18] <voxadam> What kind of latency is required for EMC to perform reasonably on a 3/4 axis mill with DC servos?
[04:41:19] <cradek> oops, yeah
[04:41:41] <cradek> voxadam: with servos, 1ms or .5ms is all you need
[04:42:15] <cradek> for step pulse generation you want as fast as possible - rtai gives 15us on many machines.
[04:42:21] <voxadam> Interesting... That means that soon it should be doable without a multi-kernel setup which should simplify things.
[04:42:40] <cradek> voxadam: yes - or complicate things, depending on your point of view
[04:43:13] <voxadam> I never thought about it but I guess it makes sense that pulse based machines would need a lower latency/higher granularity.
[04:43:15] <cradek> to us, with many/most users doing step pulse generation, not only is there no payoff for switching away from rtai, it complicates things because our binary distributions would need to support multiple kernels.
[04:43:45] <cradek> we already handle the problem of a custom kernel, and we must continue to do so, for those users
[04:43:57] <voxadam> Binary distribution sure makes things complicated.
[04:44:08] <cradek> not for users
[04:44:13] <cradek> it makes things very very simple
[04:44:29] <voxadam> Yeah...
[04:44:53] <tom3p> someone had used satellite antenna parts, motorized tilt swivel mounts, as AB axis ( Rab?) anyone know the right buzzword to google for such?
[04:45:20] <voxadam> Satellite actuator?
[04:45:38] <tom3p> thx, i'' try that
[04:45:56] <cradek> 'polar mount'?
[04:47:11] <cradek> voxadam: without an easy to install binary distribution, we would have a very small fraction of the users we have today
[04:47:52] <voxadam> I remember what it was like prior to the old BDI distro. I poke around EMC from time to time.
[04:48:06] <voxadam> Installation was a nightmare.
[04:48:12] <clytle374> tom3p, I've heard them called "azimuth and elevation actuators"
[04:48:16] <cradek> yeah it took a very dedicated person to get it working at all
[04:49:16] <cradek> it was very good to jump to ubuntu in '05. to some extent we got lucky and picked the distro that was going to take off.
[04:50:30] <MarkPictor> tom3p: satellite dish turntables
[04:50:32] <MarkPictor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=424214
[04:51:01] <clytle374> Ubuntu sure did take off
[04:51:13] <voxadam> I'm glad you went with a Debian based distro. I've always preferred apt to rpm, though I hear rpm has caught up in recent years.
[04:53:05] <cradek> MarkPictor: is that really suitable for any cutting?
[04:53:59] <voxadam> I can't imagine it takes lateral forces all that well.
[04:54:36] <MarkPictor> don't know, I assumed that was what tom3p was talking about. it does look flimsy...
[04:55:14] <cradek> maybe it's for engraving or some other very light work
[04:55:19] <MarkPictor> I just googled "satellite dish rotary axis cnc"
[04:55:48] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek: what do you think about an EMC'd surface grinder?
[04:55:51] <MarkPictor> sigh... checked my bios settings. they appear to be correct
[04:56:06] <cradek> MarkPictor: what's it set to?
[04:56:21] <aa-danimal-shop> i was thinking about throwing some servos or steppers on my Harig for grinding bigger parts
[04:56:21] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: both X and Y controlled with motors?
[04:56:25] <MarkPictor> ecp+epp
[04:56:27] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[04:56:49] <aa-danimal-shop> basically just a cheap auto feed
[04:56:56] <cradek> MarkPictor: is there a bidirectional setting? or maybe just try them all? :-/
[04:57:26] <MarkPictor> did not see anything like that, it looked like all the standard settings
[04:57:28] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: seems like writing gcode is overkill. you just want back-and-forth and a stepover, right?
[04:57:34] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[04:57:45] <aa-danimal-shop> i thought the same
[04:57:52] <clytle374> Thanks, I got halscope running. Now waiting on hardware. Time to check on the pregnant cow and get some sleep.
[04:57:53] <aa-danimal-shop> but dont know of a better way
[04:57:54] <cradek> you sure could use full emc, or just hal
[04:57:57] <tom3p> the interweb connects to everything, so 'satellite dish turntable' showed up a NASA site with free 3D models, i think we have some 10yr olds at NASA designing stuff: a grease gun http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/assets/grease_gun.html
[04:58:36] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe just a plc would be best
[04:58:39] <MarkPictor> hrm. it is an old mobo, has a 82c686a, maybe just too old
[04:59:11] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: there are all sorts of ways to do it
[04:59:25] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[04:59:26] <cradek> heck you could do it with some limit switches wired to relays
[04:59:46] <cradek> make them movable, like on a track, to set the extents
[04:59:56] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i thought emc would be cool because you can adjust the feedrate and acceleration easy
[05:00:05] <cradek> true
[05:00:26] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe even adjust the rpm for wheel breakdown
[05:00:43] <aa-danimal-shop> with a vfd
[05:00:53] <MarkPictor> is there a mode where hal_parport does not require the port to be bidirectional? I can't find a man page for it
[05:01:31] <aa-danimal-shop> it was just a thought i had when i was cleaning my grider today
[05:01:42] <aa-danimal-shop> probably wouldnt do it anything soon
[05:02:30] <aa-danimal-shop> anytime*
[05:02:51] <voxadam> The wiki mentions that the next Ubuntu LTS is 10.04 but there is no mention of when EMC will support it.
[05:03:00] <cradek> we will
[05:03:08] <voxadam> Great.
[05:03:12] <cradek> (unless something's horribly wrong with it)
[05:03:26] <ds3> btw, is there anything against folks putting out alternatives to the LiveCD?
[05:04:35] <cradek> of course not, but if people expect us to support it we reserve the right to act all snippy
[05:04:50] <ds3> that's fair enough :D
[05:04:53] <cradek> :-)
[05:05:04] <ds3> I am convinced a lighter live CD is in order
[05:05:29] <cradek> an install that needs less ram might be nice
[05:05:34] <ds3> might take on that after I conquer axis
[05:05:43] <MarkPictor> there used to be a puppy linux cd, but I don't remember how out of date that is
[05:05:48] <cradek> I'm not sure what other benefits there would be
[05:06:01] <cradek> MarkPictor: it's pre-emc2.0.0 I think
[05:06:05] <ds3> the amount of crap that ubuntu installs is utterly rediculous
[05:06:20] <cradek> puppy didn't have a way to update a package, so it rotted very fast
[05:06:26] <MarkPictor> oic
[05:06:45] <cradek> (and that fact made it a bad idea, IMO)
[05:06:51] <ds3> installing Gnome, and new fonts and all that crap just to run a CNC control is just not right
[05:07:51] <MarkPictor> ...but to debug you need stuff like halscope, which requires gtk. gtk is large IIRC
[05:08:14] <cradek> nowadays, without gnome, a lot of stuff (like networking) doesn't work. they're moving more and more stuff into gnome.
[05:08:27] <ds3> not really
[05:08:41] <ds3> anyways... the amount oftime it is taking to strip out the trash is annoying
[05:08:55] <ds3> in any case, I'll try the axis experiments to see wtf is going on
[05:09:07] <cradek> well maybe you can get by without the gnome network manager, but it's nice and easy to use.
[05:09:07] <MarkPictor> for a production environment you might not need all the extras but if you have it in your shop you will want an editor, music player, etc
[05:09:24] <ds3> I don't even have networking in the shop!
[05:09:29] <MarkPictor> shop => garage
[05:09:38] <cradek> then you're crippled
[05:09:40] <ds3> so NM is a complete and total waste
[05:10:00] <cradek> networking is how I get gcode in the machines
[05:10:15] <cradek> might as well punch some paper tape if you don't have ethernet, IMO
[05:10:26] <MarkPictor> lol
[05:10:54] <cradek> or format some floppies...
[05:11:29] <cradek> sorry, it's getting late and I'm getting too loud
[05:12:14] <voxadam> Has anyone gone completely off the deep end and tried running EMC on a Beagle Board?
[05:12:27] <MarkPictor> jon elson is trying to get it to work
[05:12:30] <cradek> no rtai for arm, but I hear someone is working on it
[05:12:41] <cradek> simulator (userland) mode runs fine on a beagle
[05:13:10] <cradek> whether the beagle hardware itself has adequate realtime performance is not yet known
[05:13:16] <voxadam> What kind of motor interface would a person use?
[05:13:29] <cradek> yeah, that's the other problem
[05:13:47] <MarkPictor> well crap. if the parport won't work, I guess I'll have to dust off my old hal/comedi driver
[05:14:12] <cradek> beagle has a little bit of logic level IO, and elson has a plan to interface to that
[05:14:31] <cradek> EPP emulation over some other connector
[05:14:35] <MarkPictor> all I remember is that null pointer in RT = instant reboot :-/
[05:14:35] <voxadam> I wonder what the specs of I2S are.
[05:15:09] <cradek> MarkPictor: wish I could help - not sure what the problem is with your parport.
[05:15:34] <ds3> okay
[05:15:37] <MarkPictor> yeah. is hal_parport reconfigurable? I don't see a man page
[05:15:54] <cradek> it only has a section in the docs
[05:15:55] <ds3> 2 minutes and counting, no errors on axis and loading the 5-6 line program is just spinning
[05:16:02] <cradek> I don't know why it doesn't have a manpage
[05:16:12] <cradek> ds3: nothing on stderr/stdout?
[05:16:16] <ds3> cradek: nope
[05:16:18] <ds3> I'll check again
[05:16:22] <cradek> huh
[05:16:48] <ds3> zilch
[05:17:07] <cradek> but the splash screen program looks ok?
[05:17:18] <ds3> I didn't try reloading it but yeah
[05:17:31] <cradek> that's a stumper
[05:17:43] <cradek> I've got to get to bed - goodnight all
[05:17:45] <ds3> then I guess it is time to try tkemc
[05:17:49] <ds3> night
[05:17:53] <MarkPictor> night
[05:18:13] <voxadam> One has to wonder why RTAI insists on a secure connection to their website and yet doesn't have a proper crypto cert.
[05:18:28] <cradek> yeah it's been that way for years.
[05:23:08] <MarkPictor> hal_parport.c:536 - wonder if 'cfg="0x378"' is forcing bidirectional mode?
[05:30:24] <MarkPictor> if mode 2 is bidirectional, it's definitely a problem in hal_parport
[05:30:42] <MarkPictor> I've tried to turn bidirectional off, and it is not working...
[05:30:44] <tom3p> wah! heres an AB with guts http://www.torontosurplus.com/redirect.php?middleframe=http://www.torontosurplus.com/com/com10.htm
[05:31:41] <ds3> okay, I can safely say AXIS is foobar
[05:31:44] <ds3> tkemc just works
[05:32:10] <ds3> and on that note, laser works!!
[05:43:13] <MarkPictor> MarkPictor is now known as MarkPictor-away
[06:01:20] <elmo40> frysteev: nice mini mill chassis!
[06:01:38] <elmo40> you in Canada? looks like a 'dufferin' construction truck in that next pic.
[06:01:46] <elmo40> where did you get the ballscrews from?
[06:02:18] <frysteev> i bought the mill like that from someone in toronto
[06:02:20] <frysteev> he makes them
[06:02:52] <frysteev> im downtown. that is the dufferin jog elimination project in the pix
[06:38:51] <elmo40> is there work going on for EMC3 for the next LTS Ubuntu 10.04? Or will it still be EMC2.x?
[06:39:19] <elmo40> frysteev: i am in Oshawa
[06:40:21] <elmo40> as for using Ubuntu, why not the minimal install from Debian, then add what you need, compile EMC and related apps, gtk..., then it would be nice and lightweight
[06:41:05] <elmo40> maybe, as far-out as it may sound, use E17 for the GUI, or even Fluxbox.
[06:41:27] <elmo40> i believe E17 uses some GTK libs.
[06:42:25] <elmo40> the only issue i have is the ubuntu specific .deb files. I have been through them all and settled on pure Debian (running Sidux atm, mind you) And Ubuntu .debs do not play well with Debian.
[06:42:30] <elmo40> rather annoying, to say the least.
[06:43:03] <elmo40> i like this simple setup! http://qurl.org/pw0
[06:54:36] <frysteev> elmo40: what do you have?
[06:55:09] <elmo40> building, collecting parts.
[06:55:20] <elmo40> right now i work here: http://noranco.com
[06:55:34] <elmo40> been thinking of a 4-axis mill for quite some time.
[06:55:58] <elmo40> Horizontal, to be exact.
[06:56:04] <elmo40> they are so versatile.
[06:56:21] <elmo40> we have 5 of them in our shop, along with 2 5-axis.
[06:56:24] <elmo40> lovely machines
[06:56:29] <frysteev> cool
[06:56:33] <elmo40> so, having one at home would be nice :)
[06:57:49] <frysteev> can you make parts for it at work?
[06:58:36] <elmo40> the shop is 24.7
[06:58:41] <elmo40> difficult to get machine time
[06:58:53] <elmo40> i can make a few things here and there
[06:59:05] <elmo40> but mainly only on the manual machines.
[06:59:09] <elmo40> the CNC are always running!
[07:05:26] <elmo40> frysteev: you work in a shop?
[07:06:35] <frysteev> no.
[07:06:41] <frysteev> building a small one for my own
[07:06:48] <frysteev> unemployed atm
[07:08:31] <frysteev> working freelance here and there
[07:08:59] <elmo40> it can be rough
[07:09:08] <elmo40> my miss's is in the same boat.
[07:09:21] <elmo40> money gets tight, want to make cnc parts :)
[07:09:41] <ds3> frysteev: what kind of shop do you want to build?
[07:10:38] <frysteev> small shop for doing one off projects..
[07:10:48] <frysteev> im used to working in the tv industry
[07:10:54] <ds3> any kind of material ?
[07:10:58] <frysteev> theres a ton of camers mounts and stuff i want to make
[07:11:06] <frysteev> mostly aluminum to start
[07:11:28] <frysteev> i have my mill, a mini lathe i want to cnc, metal and wood chop saw, couple drill presses, table saw and a mig welder
[07:11:53] <ds3> couple of drill presses? why?
[07:12:54] <frysteev> one came with my mig,
[07:12:58] <frysteev> and its really handy
[07:13:15] <frysteev> i have a compund slide ice on one, and leave the other for stuff
[07:13:41] <frysteev> makes life nice and easy when you need to drill pilot holes then actual ones etc
[07:22:05] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[07:22:40] <frysteev> woo
[07:26:01] <elmo40> ds3: couple drill presses are better then one drill press.
[07:26:42] <elmo40> i used to work in a shop with 3 others. there were 7 drill presses.
[07:27:01] <elmo40> plus the 4 mills and 2 lathes.
[07:27:16] <elmo40> more machines then people. makes multiple setups easier.
[07:30:02] <ds3> elmo40: how do you decide to use a DP over a mill for drilling a hole?
[07:32:26] <elmo40> depth. accuracy. size of material.
[07:32:43] <elmo40> drill press usually has a small 12"x12" table. Mill is much larger.
[07:32:59] <ds3> so isn't the DP redundant?
[07:33:04] <elmo40> nope
[07:33:14] <ds3> why not?
[07:33:31] <elmo40> so many things you dont need the mill for. even tapping can be done on the press
[07:34:03] <elmo40> plus, it is faster to setup a press then the mill. height and tooling changes.
[07:34:31] <ds3> but for a small home shop, is that an issue?
[07:34:32] <elmo40> i havent used a key'd chuck in the mill in ages.
[07:34:49] <elmo40> that is different. space may be an issue, then one machine is all you need.
[07:35:10] <ds3> the only reason I use a DP is it has way more Z clearance then the mill
[07:35:14] <elmo40> if you have the space then have both.
[07:35:20] <elmo40> for sure
[07:35:38] <elmo40> easier to clean, too ;)
[07:36:13] <ds3> I donno about that
[07:36:53] <El_Matarife> You probably don't need a full size standing drill press either, a table top machine is fine for most things
[07:37:25] <El_Matarife> Check Craigslist, there's always a good variety of old but perfectly servicable machines available
[07:37:35] <ds3> I find the opposite.. I want a self standing DP just for the Z clearance
[07:37:48] <ds3> but then I use a puny mill
[07:41:45] <El_Matarife> the Delta desktop drill press has at least an 8 inch Z clearance I think
[07:41:48] <El_Matarife> How much more do you need?
[07:42:11] <ds3> 20-30? :D
[07:42:34] <ds3> add a clamp, long drill chuck
[07:42:42] <elmo40> i do not like the table tops.
[07:42:50] <ds3> a spring center for tapping, a tap handle
[07:42:51] <elmo40> need to bolt them down to be useful.
[07:43:07] <ds3> you can chew through Z pretty quickly....I manage to run out on a bridge port
[07:43:11] <elmo40> but i want the mobility of the freestanding units
[07:43:35] <elmo40> i currently live in a town house. drives me nuts :P
[07:43:52] <elmo40> hope to move to a place with a 2 1/2 car garage.
[07:43:59] <elmo40> minus the cars ;)
[07:44:13] <El_Matarife> That's exactly why I am pushing the tabletop, it gets 90% of what most people need done but doesn't take up two square feet of garage space
[07:44:31] <elmo40> takes up much more useful counter space!
[07:44:35] <El_Matarife> I've actually been considering finding some cheap warehouse or commercial space
[07:44:36] <ds3> I much rather just have a BP
[07:44:48] <El_Matarife> No, you stick it in a cabinet or under a table or something
[07:45:16] <El_Matarife> I built like 30 cubic feet of storage under my 4x4 mill
[07:45:20] <elmo40> El_Matarife: ya, not for me. i like all my machines to be 'free standing' units. always pluged in, ready to go.
[07:45:25] <elmo40> setup is annoying.
[07:45:42] <El_Matarife> sure is but some of us like to actually park our car in the garage occasionally :P
[07:46:04] <El_Matarife> and I bet at least one or two of us have wives or girlfriends that object to having a full on woodshop in the garage
[07:46:09] <elmo40> you must do what you must do.
[07:46:17] <El_Matarife> (Not me, but at least some nerds must get married right)
[07:46:20] <elmo40> my garage is my domain :)
[07:48:07] <elmo40> i have one of those 8" tiny table top drill presses (my ex bought it for me). plenty of counter space, though. working on getting an 8" swing lathe and a 7 x 20 (or larger) kneemill
[07:48:49] <El_Matarife> What kind of man breaks up with a girl that buys him tools? haha
[07:51:33] <El_Matarife> I don't know if I really need a dedicated lathe if I add one to my machine
[07:54:11] <elmo40> we still talk, if that makes a difference. ;)
[08:05:47] <elmo40> i would like a rotating 4th axis for my future mill.
[08:07:12] <frysteev> and what about your future gf?
[08:09:46] <El_Matarife> Someone soon is going to make a mint selling an articulating arm spindle for existing machines to convert them to 5 axis
[08:13:16] <elmo40> frysteev: current gf.
[08:13:32] <elmo40> she loves the fact that i build things.
[08:13:45] <elmo40> El_Matarife: there is one.
[08:13:56] <elmo40> well, a 4-axis add-on
[08:14:08] <elmo40> 5th is complicated, but doable.
[08:14:27] <El_Matarife> 4th axis lathe style is pretty easy convesion / add on
[08:14:42] <El_Matarife> Articulated spindle arm is a lot more difficult
[08:16:33] <Valen> stacking rotary axies is never fun
[08:18:49] <elmo40> i have seen a few full size CNC machines that are technically 4-axis horizontal but the spindle will angle 90-deg.
[08:19:16] <Valen> ours is probably going to be stacked rotaries
[08:19:27] <Valen> though we are thinking about articulating the head
[10:19:59] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:27:41] <micges_work> hi
[12:57:10] <bosko> Hello there!
[13:00:00] <micges_work1> hello here
[14:38:27] <i_tarzan> h
[14:42:45] <micges_work> k
[14:52:14] <bosko> hello
[15:20:52] <bosko> anyone good in source code of emc?
[15:21:19] <bosko> There is a touchy interface, can someone tell how to install it?
[15:21:42] <cradek> it will be in the 2.4.0 release
[15:21:55] <cradek> if you don't want to wait for that, you can build 2.4 prerelease from source
[15:22:20] <bosko> hello cradek. nice to hear you again. So, from git, compile it and so
[15:22:30] <cradek> yes, step by step instructions here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[15:22:52] <bosko> will try. please dont laugh on other side...
[15:23:49] <cradek> instructions about how to set up touchy here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui_touchy.html
[15:24:11] <bosko> thanks for your time!
[15:24:18] <cradek> welcome
[15:31:15] <ries> In de MDI window you can see current active G-Codes, but for example for G64 how can you find out what setting it has?
[15:31:38] <cradek> I don't think you can find that, you can only set it
[15:32:16] <ries> ic ic... would it be possible to create some python plugin for it that shows the value?
[15:34:14] <ries> Python virtual panel I did mean...
[15:41:49] <bosko> cradek, can a little help?
[15:42:12] <bosko> how do i choose touchy?
[15:42:38] <bosko> i have compiled, seems ok and all make etc went ok..
[15:43:06] <cradek> there is a sample configuration sim/touchy
[15:45:51] <bosko> i see, i have to run emc from shell...
[15:55:53] <bosko> cradek, can you tell me how to run emc now from program list?
[16:20:21] <aa-danimal-shop> morning
[16:20:46] <bosko> morning too
[16:24:48] <tom3p> does (the free) eagle schematic capture allow hierarchical sheets?
[16:25:52] <tom3p> i'd like to place an off-board connector (to a big power resistor) and cant seem to find one
[16:29:41] <tom3p> i know they only allow 1 sheet but an offboard connector is logically tied to ... something outside of the schema at hand
[16:35:00] <mozmck_work1> tom3p: don't know - but kicad does!
[16:36:14] <cradek> tom3p: pretty sure the free version only lets you have one sheet of schematic
[16:43:23] <bosko> i have compiled 2.5 version of emc, but from start menu only runs 2.3.4. can i change that?
[16:45:10] <bosko> i can run 2.5 from shell
[17:09:15] <elmo40> very detailed page. http://www.jeffree.co.uk/pages/divheadmk2.html
[17:13:13] <aa-danimal-shop> there's a 2.5 already?
[17:16:06] <mozmck_work1> probably referring to master I guess
[17:22:09] <elmo40> it is in the git
[17:22:20] <elmo40> well, 2.4 anyways
[17:23:01] <elmo40> http://bayimg.com/PAkjLAACm <-- interesting mill. The table moves in X but the spindle moves in Y & Z
[17:24:50] <i_tarzan> why buid a divider when you can buy one
[17:25:09] <i_tarzan> and adapt motor
[17:28:02] <elmo40> would you pay $250 for that mill?
[17:28:25] <elmo40> what prevents the spindle assembly from spinning on the cylindrical column?
[17:29:37] <i_tarzan> welded table looks great
[17:30:08] <i_tarzan> why use a toothed belt?
[17:31:53] <elmo40> prevent slipping?
[17:32:03] <elmo40> but $250 for that? i dont know... seems pricey
[17:32:31] <anonimasu> I've seen people pay more for more pos machines :)
[17:32:39] <anonimasu> but I wouldnt pay 250 for it
[17:33:22] <elmo40> i was going to offer $175
[17:33:28] <elmo40> try not to low-ball it too much
[17:39:47] <anonimasu> but well, as for making it cnc idk...
[17:49:25] <elmo40> the Y and Z look simple enough to make CNC
[17:49:28] <elmo40> dont know about the X
[17:54:56] <archivist> I dont think I would spend anything much to buy that little mill
[18:00:33] <elmo40> this is why i enjoy talking it over.
[18:00:42] <elmo40> my mind would have been 'sure, offer $175'
[18:00:54] <elmo40> but the masses say 'bah, leave it' ;)
[18:01:14] <elmo40> i have a few others in mind. when i get one i will share the pics
[18:02:44] <jackc> elmo40: *i* would buy it, but thats cuz im having trouble finding anything good around here
[18:04:17] <archivist> I have a hate for round columns and slides
[18:13:41] <sealive> good evening from germany
[18:14:39] <aa-danimal-shop> archivist: have you seen the old bridgeports with the round rams?
[18:14:57] <sealive> i just downloadet the .sh for hardy i run xubuntu hardy 8.04
[18:15:04] <archivist> aa-danimal-shop, no
[18:15:18] <sealive> do i need internet connection to run this?
[18:15:32] <archivist> I had won of the taiwan mills with a round column
[18:16:53] <archivist> I also had a round bed lathe with a slot, you cant easily adjust so you get play
[18:17:37] <aa-danimal-shop> archivist: http://www.warwickequipment.com/admin/used/02022004Metal1.jpg
[18:18:10] <archivist> how much rotational play do you get
[18:18:20] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm with ya though, i dont like round columns
[18:18:45] <anonimasu> I agree with archivist
[18:19:27] <archivist> only of they are in pairs and are stiff enough :)
[18:19:44] <elmo40> jackc: where is 'around here' to not be able to find a mill?
[18:20:23] <archivist> when you cant find...make!
[18:20:37] <elmo40> aa-danimal-shop: old mill!
[18:20:45] <elmo40> huge power travel :P
[18:21:15] <elmo40> but they are all round! very few of them are not.
[18:21:17] <archivist> thought for the day http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/129110944122663119.jpg
[18:45:06] <dmess> hi all
[18:46:15] <micges> hi
[18:47:55] <jackc> elmo40: boston
[18:48:10] <elmo40> and there is nothing around?
[18:48:13] <elmo40> seriously?
[18:49:00] <jackc> i could be looking in all the wrong places
[18:49:03] <jackc> ebay and craigslist
[18:49:07] <jackc> where are you finding things?
[18:49:26] <elmo40> random clusty.com searches
[18:49:30] <elmo40> kijiji.com
[18:49:33] <elmo40> stuff like that
[18:50:32] <elmo40> jackc: if you have the cash... http://qurl.org/qw0
[18:50:33] <elmo40> ;)
[18:50:49] <elmo40> expensive mill!
[18:50:53] <elmo40> not worth 22k
[18:52:03] <elmo40> i dont even think that machine was 22k brand new!
[18:52:19] <elmo40> i could get a 5 year old horizontal Mazak for around that price.
[18:52:32] <jackc> yeah im going for <$1k :-p
[18:52:54] <elmo40> same here.
[19:01:25] <anonimasu> the new haas are around that price
[19:01:50] <anonimasu> maybe about $25k
[19:02:45] <aa-danimal-shop> thats a lil haas
[19:08:35] <jackc> the shop i learned at was all haas
[19:08:44] <jackc> mini mills up through VF4 that i could live in
[19:10:58] <aa-danimal-shop> i wonder if JT-Work has his hardinge moving yet
[19:13:57] <aa-danimal-shop> almost every shop i ever worked in had mostly mori siekis
[19:16:47] <clytle374> An old mori is better than a new haas IMO.
[19:18:04] <anonimasu> agreed
[19:18:11] <anonimasu> but they cost more used then a brand new haas..
[19:18:12] <anonimasu> too
[19:18:12] <anonimasu> :)
[19:19:05] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, moris are nice
[19:19:09] <frysteev> i was watching an idustrial plant auction with some sexy shop gear
[19:19:19] <clytle374> I wonder which costs more by them time each one is scraped.
[19:20:01] <aa-danimal-shop> you can score an old sl-3 for about 6-7k
[19:20:10] <aa-danimal-shop> not bad for a mori lathe
[19:20:24] <clytle374> My first was an SL-2
[19:20:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm sure an old mori mill would be under 15k
[19:21:00] <anonimasu> well, if you consider the haas will be sold as scrap when the mori is still alive and pushing parts out
[19:21:10] <anonimasu> err unusable..
[19:21:49] <aa-danimal-shop> haas is a little costly when it comes to repairs
[19:21:50] <clytle374> I'd like to find an Mori M-300 Partner
[19:22:09] <aa-danimal-shop> they seem to break alot
[19:22:18] <clytle374> Yes, they do.
[19:22:33] <aa-danimal-shop> we had lots of toolchanger issues
[19:22:41] <aa-danimal-shop> and they were less than 3 years old
[19:22:56] <anonimasu> they seem to have tolerance issues also
[19:23:00] <anonimasu> from forum posts
[19:23:07] <aa-danimal-shop> you get what you pay for though
[19:23:29] <anonimasu> brans new machines not managing to hold tolerances
[19:23:33] <clytle374> I fixed one last month where the tool wasn't releasing easily and bent the changer wheel.
[19:23:34] <anonimasu> (lathes I read the most about)
[19:23:38] <aa-danimal-shop> i trust my old hardinge way more than any haas
[19:23:54] <clytle374> Hardinge is good stuff.
[19:24:23] <aa-danimal-shop> 32 years old and can still hold a super tight tollerance
[19:24:34] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:24:48] <aa-danimal-shop> it's older than me!
[19:24:58] <clytle374> yep, in all fairness is was most likely taken care of.
[19:25:00] <aa-danimal-shop> by 4 years
[19:25:23] <aa-danimal-shop> i think it was litely used
[19:25:30] <aa-danimal-shop> lightly*
[19:25:47] <clytle374> Lots of junk being made today.
[19:26:10] <clytle374> Most of my work comes from new Chinese lathes.
[19:26:19] <aa-danimal-shop> LOL
[19:26:34] <aa-danimal-shop> yea the Chineese are creating jobs, indirectly
[19:26:41] <aa-danimal-shop> for machinery repair men
[19:26:55] <aa-danimal-shop> and scrap yards
[19:27:35] <clytle374> Funny thing is, now the Tia‌wan stuff is quality
[19:28:29] <clytle374> Of course no one can afford German and Japanese stuff.
[19:29:22] <clytle374> I just looked at dealer pricing for a RF-45. $2500
[19:29:36] <anonimasu> wow
[19:29:51] <clytle374> Chineese clone is ~$1000
[19:30:17] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, well in all fairness tiawan has made alot of progress in the quality department
[19:30:43] <clytle374> yes they have.
[19:31:04] <clytle374> Anyone know where Haas iron is from?
[19:31:17] <aa-danimal-shop> but i'd still rather buy used domestic than new chineese/tiawan
[19:31:33] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374: i tihnk it's usa
[19:32:01] <aa-danimal-shop> they advertise made in usa so i think the majority needs to be made here
[19:32:11] <aa-danimal-shop> of course there are loopholes
[19:32:14] <clytle374> Lots of made in USA stuff is really now more than a few things done to it in the USA.
[19:33:08] <clytle374> I worked for a manufacture. A Tiawain machine came in with screws and all. Add the CNC and the made in USA sticker, and ship it.
[19:33:16] <clytle374> That;s all I can say about that.
[19:33:56] <anonimasu> I think the difference is the amount of care the machine gets
[19:34:15] <anonimasu> scraping/finishing and making 1000% sure the alignment is ok
[19:35:50] <clytle374> Most new machines has ground ways, so you trust the manufacture. Don't bet that is done in the USA
[19:36:30] <terrylm> Hi all
[19:36:55] <aa-danimal-shop> hi terrylm
[19:37:06] <anonimasu> im very very curious how much it'd cost to design a machine and have it cast
[19:38:07] <clytle374> Me too. Looked at mineral casting a while back. Not cheap
[19:38:14] <anonimasu> well, cast iron...
[19:38:15] <anonimasu> :)
[19:38:50] <clytle374> Much cheaper by the container load.
[19:39:18] <terrylm> It occurred to me that I programed my part thinking from the perspective of backside tooling... but AXIS has a front side perspective...
[19:39:45] <terrylm> Thus the sense of G41/G42 flip...
[19:40:49] <terrylm> But the G2/G3 only work right as programed, if I flip them they are totally wrong.
[19:40:54] <cradek> it is easy to get 41/42 wrong on a lathe
[19:41:03] <clytle374> Just found on the Haas site that the iron is cast in the USA. Surprised.
[19:41:33] <anonimasu> I wonder how rigid and cheap you could build a machine..
[19:41:38] <anonimasu> (properly)
[19:42:13] <archivist> start with an old machine :)
[19:42:29] <terrylm> So I got my strait in finish tool to work by flipping G41 for G42, but left the G2/G3s the same.
[19:42:36] <archivist> good old castings that wont move
[19:42:37] <cradek> if the tool is on the back, you have to look from above. if the tool is in front, you have to look from below
[19:42:45] <anonimasu> archivist: not the point at all
[19:43:03] <cradek> use the right-hand rule to determine where your (imaginary) Y axis points, and then look from there
[19:43:05] <anonimasu> archivist: it just seems the stuff you can buy sucks...
[19:43:07] <clytle374> yep, I'm still looking for one without a quill
[19:43:19] <terrylm> OH, so that is why G2/G3 did not flip?
[19:43:44] <cradek> nothing is "flipped" so I don't understand the question
[19:44:21] <cradek> how AXIS displays a lathe's X has nothing to do with g41/42/2/3
[19:44:44] <cradek> when we talk about "on the left" "on the right" "clockwise" "counterclockwise" in the XZ plane, you have to be looking from along the positive Y axis
[19:44:56] <cradek> same for XY plane, from along the positive Z axis, etc etc
[19:45:32] <cradek> emc is consistent in all these ways, but it can be easy to get confused on lathes because we don't think about where Y is (where Y would be)
[19:45:38] <terrylm> OK, so I'm confused which way is +
[19:46:05] <terrylm> in the Y
[19:46:12] <cradek> if positive X points away from you, positive Z to your right, the right-hand rule says Y points up
[19:46:38] <cradek> so on your lathe you look at clockwise/counterclockwise/on the left/on the right from above
[19:47:00] <terrylm> OK, that is how I was thinking.
[19:47:02] <cradek> on my HNC I have to look from below (imagine looking)
[19:48:12] <cradek> so if you have a turning tool moving across the back side of the part, from +z to -z, that's "on the right" = G42
[19:48:32] <cradek> if you're moving the other way, from -z to +z, that's "on the left" = G41
[19:49:49] <terrylm> This is starting to make sense... if AXIS shows X+ toward me, Z+ to the right, then Y+ is down, so nothing should change.
[19:50:00] <bosko> cradek: is it possible for me to run 2.5 emc (compiled and run from shell) to be started from programs menu (to get option to configure my configuration), and to test touchy?
[19:50:53] <cradek> terrylm: yes imagine you give me your gcode. it is still correct, even though I have to stand on my head to see left/right/cw/ccw in the correct sense
[19:51:31] <cradek> bosko: I don't know what you mean by configure your configuration
[19:51:54] <cradek> bosko: and what about a menu? I don't understand what you're asking
[19:52:41] <terrylm> But the left/right thing, +z to -z, backside, the part is on the left as seen from behind the tool... but this is G42???
[19:52:51] <bosko> now as runing from shell i dont know how to do my setup. or should do edit of config files in emc2-dev\config directory itself?
[19:52:55] <cradek> terrylm: a g18 g2 arc on the AXIS screen will look ccw -- on your lathe itself when viewed from above, it will look cw
[19:53:19] <cradek> bosko: do you mean you want to run stepconf?
[19:53:37] <bosko> yes
[19:53:47] <cradek> type stepconf at the shell
[19:53:50] <bosko> or manualy edit files (hal)
[19:53:58] <bosko> tnx.
[19:57:52] <terrylm> OK, thank cradek, I'm out of time today and have to go to work now. I think I understand, that is in fact how the finish tool ended up working out. The roughing tool, which had worked with G41, but cut the diameter too small, now gives an error about gouging when G42 is used. Will figure this out tomorrow. Thanks again.
[19:58:35] <bosko> cradek: next time i ask stupid question, just dont kick me out...
[20:28:21] <bosko> Cradek: i will stop bother all of you for today. I wish best to everyone. P.S. TOUCHY WORKS!!!
[20:28:28] <cradek> yay!
[20:29:44] <bosko> And looks really fancy. Tomorrow i wil study gcode for manual move...
[20:30:30] <jackc> can PyCam import solids from $cad_software and draw surfacting cuts, anyone know?
[20:46:40] <JT-Work> aa-danimal-shop: did you have to invert all the inputs on the 7i37?
[20:52:18] <celeron55> jackc: i guess most cad software can export in the format which it is able to read... was it stl or something?
[21:00:15] <jackc> hm prolly
[21:22:19] <ds3> YiPPeeee
[21:22:28] <ds3> * ds3 flings slitting saws around
[21:24:11] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 catches one.
[21:24:12] <bill2or3> yay!
[21:24:50] <ds3> you also catch ninja stars too? :D
[21:26:20] <ds3> I can safely say axis is one broken UI :(
[21:26:53] <cradek> but it's funny how it's only broken for you...
[21:27:07] <ds3> cradek: I agree but I find it much less amusing
[21:27:12] <ds3> tkemc just works
[21:27:31] <ds3> I am just happy to have the functionality of a DOS program at the moment :D
[21:27:35] <cradek> funny how "funny" can mean more than one thing
[21:28:07] <bill2or3> yes, that's peculiar.
[21:28:09] <ds3> anyways... I am open to troubleshooting it if anyone got pointers
[21:28:29] <ds3> now that I know I can drive the machine
[21:29:29] <skunkworks> of all the machines I have tested emc on - axis has always worked.
[21:29:46] <ds3> does axis make any assumptions on the 3D hardware?
[21:30:43] <cradek> it assumes you have properly working opengl in your x server
[21:31:18] <ds3> I wonder if that is broken in my setup; is there a diag program?
[21:31:33] <skunkworks> can you run glxgears from the command line?
[21:31:44] <ds3> other then 3D, I don't think there are significant differences between tkemc and axis
[21:32:00] <ds3> shunkworks: yes... I had that running during the latency test thing in stepconf
[21:35:00] <ds3> the other wierd thing is axis used to work for me in my ancient setup
[22:20:05] <micges> ds3: what errors shows up when you run emc from console?
[22:20:53] <ds3> micges: none
[22:21:21] <micges> no errors and axis don't shows up?
[22:44:32] <ds3> no no
[22:44:44] <ds3> axis shows up but when I try to load a file, it get stuck with the clock cursor
[22:48:36] <Valen> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.metallmodellbau.de/MINI_BONELLE_II.php&sl=de&tl=en
[22:49:17] <Valen> open a terminal tail /var/log/syslog -f when you run axis, also try running it from the command line as well
[22:49:19] <micges> ds3: pastebin.ca that file
[22:50:07] <ds3> one sec... but it seems to work for everyone else
[22:50:23] <Valen> there loops or anything in it?
[22:50:27] <ds3> http://pastebin.ca/1805999
[22:50:41] <ds3> nope. it is hard to get simplier then this unless you don't have any motion!
[22:50:51] <ds3> in any case, tkemc seems to like it
[22:51:30] <ds3> I might try a blind upgrade and see if it does any better
[23:20:55] <skunkworks> Valen: very nice workmanship
[23:27:04] <Valen> not mine unfortunatly
[23:27:10] <Valen> that is just awesome lol
[23:44:23] <alex_joni> night all