#emc | Logs for 2010-02-18

[00:01:43] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:07:03] <jt-plasma> with nothing going on the p3 1000 cpu is at 70% this one is at 15-20% playing music surfing chatting on the irc etc any clue what might be hogging up the cpu?
[00:10:46] <LawrenceG> jt-plasma, open a terminal and run top.... maybe its reindexing the locate database
[00:10:59] <jt-plasma> ok
[00:12:09] <jt-plasma> LawrenceG: what do I look for?
[00:12:23] <LawrenceG> with 200+ things running on a modern distro, there always seems to be something that can go into hog mode.... I have found the web browser to be ill behaved at times
[00:12:47] <LawrenceG> in the list of processes.. what ones are near the top?
[00:13:43] <LawrenceG> on my box at the moment, I have firefox, Xorg, skype and gkrellm jokeying for position
[00:13:48] <jt-plasma> Xorg, gnome-sys-mo
[00:14:49] <jt-plasma> gnome-sys-mo has the biggest numbers in the VIRT column
[00:16:08] <jt-plasma> xorg is 165m on that machine and it is only 101m on this one
[00:16:49] <jt-plasma> Xorg is using 60% of the cpu
[00:17:31] <Eric_K> that isn't good
[00:17:46] <LawrenceG> any large windows being repainted?
[00:18:09] <jt-plasma> nothing is open at all except the terminal and the system monitor
[00:18:46] <jt-plasma> closing the system monitor and Xorg drops to less than 10
[00:18:50] <jt-plasma> 10%
[00:19:08] <jt-plasma> try a different video card?
[00:19:24] <LawrenceG> or driver
[00:21:27] <jt-plasma> ok
[01:10:30] <aa-danimal-shop> poor jt-plasma. Just cant win with pc's lately.
[01:12:59] <jt-plasma> :/
[01:17:22] <aa-danimal-shop> wish i could help ya, but you're probably better at this crap than i am
[01:18:14] <jt-plasma> ahh, it is just another challenge to get past
[01:18:35] <jt-plasma> the plasma was so easy :)
[01:18:35] <aa-danimal-shop> hopefully your processors get there soon
[01:18:40] <aa-danimal-shop> ha
[01:19:03] <jt-plasma> yea, I'm working on wiring the daughter cards up now
[01:19:25] <jt-plasma> trying to finger out if CB27 is an inny or an outty
[01:19:31] <jt-plasma> I think it is an inny
[01:20:26] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:20:55] <aa-danimal-shop> i had inies and outies to together in my wiring
[01:21:18] <aa-danimal-shop> it was an adventure trying to figure out what was what
[01:21:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i had no schematics
[01:22:20] <jt-plasma> at least I have some drawings and some terminal pin outs
[01:23:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i've been busy organizing the shop. Got alot done, but still alot of work left
[01:24:07] <aa-danimal-shop> think i'm gunna paint my bandsaw.. it's a bit of an eyesore
[01:28:19] <jt-plasma> I bought a new bandsaw last year nice improvement over the old one
[01:28:30] <jt-plasma> a Wilton one
[02:03:15] <clytle374> Just got news that the 7I48 will work. Glad that worked out. I'm still waiting for the SLI function for the Voodoo5 driver to come out;)
[02:12:08] <aa-danimal-shop> i have an old carolina band saw
[02:12:29] <aa-danimal-shop> i think the gypsys used to sell them out the back of trucks or something lol
[02:13:03] <aa-danimal-shop> fairy decent saw for what it is though
[02:13:16] <aa-danimal-shop> better than the imports
[02:24:37] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm> jt-plasma:
[02:36:13] <clytle374> I'm checking out the programming manual, EMC runs real macros. oh yeah. A $2000 option on a Haas
[02:37:17] <clytle374> I guess I should say user macros, since a Haas runs them too during tool change.
[03:38:16] <aa-danimal-shop> yawn
[03:38:40] <terrylm> yawn? I have an exciting question!
[03:39:29] <terrylm> Does anyone know how to change the display in AXIS for backside tooling?
[03:39:48] <cradek> not offhand, but I know it's been on the mailing list
[03:40:19] <terrylm> OK, thanks, I'll search for it.
[03:41:52] <terrylm> Oh other matters: Is there a known bug with float output from classicladder getting stuck with a value of zero? (%IFO=0 no matter what.)
[03:42:25] <cradek> hm, I didn't even know ladder had float output
[03:42:27] <terrylm> not IF0
[03:42:53] <terrylm> Ya, the 2.3.4 version of EMC does.
[03:44:59] <terrylm> I used it to write to stepgen.2.position-cmd, and it mostly works good. But after some time it just is zero.
[03:45:13] <cradek> after some time?
[03:45:54] <terrylm> Ya, I don't know how to make it repeat, but it will eventually get stuck.
[03:46:26] <cradek> bizarre! sounds hard to reproduce unfortunately
[03:46:29] <terrylm> I have to quit emc and restart it to fix it.
[03:48:06] <cradek> do you know what happens right before it?
[03:48:35] <cradek> are you always adding to position so it gets big, or do you go plus and minus?
[03:48:36] <terrylm> I might try to use the S32 output and the external S32 to float converter.
[03:49:52] <terrylm> It is for my tool changer. It does not seem to matter what tool is current or what tool is asked for, just happens sooner or latter.
[03:50:25] <terrylm> The turret homes good, and work good untill it don't.
[03:50:38] <cradek> you're not giving me much to go on here :-)
[03:50:55] <terrylm> Ya...
[03:51:10] <terrylm> I'm not sure where to start.
[03:51:33] <cradek> use halscope and trigger when it goes to zero
[03:51:48] <cradek> have halscope monitoring all the state of your turret
[03:51:56] <terrylm> The ladder seems to be working, just the output does not get out.
[03:52:11] <terrylm> OK
[03:53:21] <terrylm> I did use hal meters to look at the value sent to stepgen and it is zero.
[03:53:46] <cradek> ok I was thinking you'd be able to see what happens when it becomes zero
[03:54:08] <terrylm> Unfortunatly there does not seem to be a way to view the float veriables inside the ladder editor.
[03:54:17] <cradek> I'm just guessing - but when in doubt collect data...
[03:54:32] <terrylm> good advice
[03:54:33] <cradek> put them out on hal pins and scope 'em?
[03:55:15] <terrylm> yes, well it does go out on a hal pin, or should...
[03:56:24] <terrylm> It might be my ladder code.
[03:56:39] <terrylm> I'm very new at ladder programing.
[03:57:22] <terrylm> Have had a hell of a time figuring out how to get the turret to work right.
[03:57:51] <cradek> the second and third machines you do will be much easier!
[03:57:51] <terrylm> But it turned out simple in the end, sort of...
[03:58:08] <terrylm> I hope so...
[04:01:18] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm waiting for terry to figure it out so i can bug him when i put a stepper/servo on my turret
[04:01:26] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[04:08:46] <terrylm> really?
[04:09:30] <terrylm> Should I get this thing really working, maybe I'll make a tutorial out of it...
[04:10:48] <terrylm> Actually, the turret does work quit good now, except when the communications between the ladder and stepgen seem to fail.
[04:11:03] <cradek> collect data collect data
[04:11:40] <terrylm> yes, I've been trying to figure out what triggers it... no idea so far.
[04:13:36] <terrylm> Tomorrow I will redo it to use the external S32 to float converter, and if that fixes it, then it would seem to be an issue with the new float output in the ladder.
[04:14:01] <cradek> I suggest collecting data instead of guessing and changing things at random
[04:14:32] <cradek> I think I suggested a good way to do that
[04:14:39] <terrylm> yes, but it will not be that hard to change, quit easy even.
[04:15:14] <cradek> if it's really 'after a while' that would be pretty surprising - I can't help but think something else is going on. but if it is as you say, it's important for us to isolate and fix
[04:15:17] <terrylm> what was that? hal scope? yes will look at it.
[04:15:47] <cradek> yeah sounds like you have an event you can trigger on. you should be able to catch all sorts of state when it goes wrong.
[04:17:45] <terrylm> I would probably trigger the scope on the iocontrol tool change pin....
[04:18:26] <aa-danimal-shop> terrylm: yes, i'd be interested in your tutorial. i'm going to get rid of the cam driven turret and put a stepper or servo in there eventually
[04:19:02] <aa-danimal-shop> right now it's just a motor with a cam on it that moves the turret one position everytime it makes a full rev
[04:19:13] <aa-danimal-shop> works great, it's just slow
[04:20:19] <aa-danimal-shop> there, bandsaw is completely painted.
[04:20:38] <aa-danimal-shop> now it isnt the biggest eyesore in the shop
[04:20:45] <aa-danimal-shop> i am :)
[04:20:52] <terrylm> Mine is an 8 pos. turret, stepper driven and will now go the shortest direction to the needed tool.
[04:21:09] <aa-danimal-shop> nice
[04:21:17] <terrylm> when it works...
[04:21:25] <aa-danimal-shop> did you use that modmath hal component i told you about?
[04:21:39] <terrylm> I could not find it...
[04:21:55] <aa-danimal-shop> just did it in ladder instead?
[04:21:56] <terrylm> Using emc 2.3.4.
[04:22:04] <terrylm> yes
[04:22:05] <aa-danimal-shop> same here. it's in there
[04:22:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm using the modmath component myself
[04:22:48] <aa-danimal-shop> there's just no documentation on it other than man modmath
[04:23:08] <terrylm> I just use the iocontrol current/prep tool numbers to know where it is/needs to go.
[04:23:16] <aa-danimal-shop> SWPadnos told me about it. that's the only way i knew
[04:23:38] <SWPadnos> sorry, the author didn't write a manpage
[04:23:39] <terrylm> I do not seem to have a man page on modmath...
[04:23:54] <aa-danimal-shop> no?
[04:23:55] <SWPadnos> yeah yeah, I'll get to it eventually
[04:24:06] <aa-danimal-shop> sorry i thought i had one
[04:24:49] <aa-danimal-shop> ohhh i think i just copied it out of the demo_mazak config files
[04:24:58] <aa-danimal-shop> and figured it out myself
[04:25:13] <aa-danimal-shop> yep thats what i did
[04:25:22] <terrylm> But ya, the tool numbers come into the ladder and it is just addition/subtraction to figure out which way to go and how far.
[04:25:37] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[04:28:08] <terrylm> Homing the turret was the hard part. The encoder on it seems to be broken, only the index pulse works, so brought that into the ladder...
[04:28:39] <terrylm> just move one tool at a time untill the index pulse is found.
[04:28:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i just have a microswitch for home position
[04:29:07] <aa-danimal-shop> it homes on the first tool change
[04:29:29] <terrylm> Does anyone know how to save the current tool number when emc exits? reload it when it starts?
[04:30:01] <terrylm> Yes, homes on the first tool change also.
[04:31:18] <aa-danimal-shop> i think you would have to write it to the var file maybe?
[04:31:43] <aa-danimal-shop> not sure how to do that from ladder. cradek: do you know how?
[04:31:47] <terrylm> OK, but I seen no way to do that from the ladder.
[04:32:22] <aa-danimal-shop> there's no way to write to a var parameter from hal?
[04:32:52] <cradek> a random-toolchange machine remembers what's in the spindle (and every other pocket) by writing it in the tool table
[04:33:24] <cradek> a nonrandom does not remember
[04:33:26] <aa-danimal-shop> i would think you could link a s32 or flaot out pin from ladder to something in hal that writes to the var file
[04:34:17] <aa-danimal-shop> but i'm a noob so i'm just guessing
[04:34:35] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont know what you mean cradek
[04:34:57] <terrylm> Yes, I seen the first two columns of the tool table are tool number and pocket number. But these just match each other down the line, no indication that one is the one in use, that I recall anyway.
[04:35:24] <aa-danimal-shop> ok i understand now
[04:35:35] <aa-danimal-shop> lotys of paint fumes in here
[04:35:39] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm slow tonight
[05:09:41] <terrylm> Has anyone used the old analog game port found of some sound cards as an A/D converter for analog feed/speed override knobs?
[05:35:30] <terrylm> Well, have a good night all.
[06:30:14] <ds3> Yipeeeeeee
[06:30:17] <ds3> it works
[07:49:13] <alex_joni> ds3: what does?
[08:19:10] <ds3> alex_joni: my parallel port interface for this stepper that I was having problems with
[08:20:05] <ds3> the weirdness I saw is because i had the wrong polarity on the enable line. It is active low and when the isolator doesn't get enough power, everything appears low. As soon as I give it full 5V, the wrong polarity from EMC prevents it from working
[08:20:14] <ds3> fix the config and now power injection works!
[08:24:36] <alex_joni> cool
[08:34:34] <i_tarzan> driving directly from parallel port?
[10:14:52] <renesis> http://www.darkertechnologies.com/image/20090217_thedripnuts_done.jpg
[10:15:02] <renesis> http://www.darkertechnologies.com/image/TheDripNuts_20100202.png
[10:15:36] <renesis> im going to try and torch them tomorrow to get those toolmarks out
[10:25:58] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:28:59] <micges_work> hi
[10:36:21] <alex_joni> hi micges_work
[10:49:31] <MrSunshine> torch them ? :)
[10:51:37] <alex_joni> MrSunshine: heat up so the surface melts
[10:52:00] <MrSunshine> cool =)
[10:52:08] <MrSunshine> looking it up and looks realy neat =)
[10:52:11] <MrSunshine> didnt know you could do that :)
[10:52:24] <alex_joni> it's plastic..
[10:52:58] <MrSunshine> yeah but didnt know the result would be like that )
[10:52:58] <MrSunshine> =)
[10:55:28] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8MEhbH6DK4
[10:55:29] <MrSunshine> ough
[10:58:48] <archivist> stress corrosion cracking
[10:59:35] <archivist> mercury does it to brass that has strain built in
[11:00:51] <MrSunshine> oh cool =)
[11:01:00] <MrSunshine> tho dont want to play with mercury =)
[11:01:30] <MrSunshine> i was thinking to post that link as renesis wanted to flamepolish, so he doesnt whipe it off with alcohol later :P
[11:02:24] <MrSunshine> http://www.polyfab.biz/annealing-acrylic.htm i guess he could do that after to get rid of that problem? :)=
[12:49:36] <MrSunshine> would a connector rated 24V 0.5A do to run a stepper motor on ? driver is fed with 34V and delivers 1.8A to the stepper motors at full current
[15:53:11] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm> * Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm watches the tumbleweeds roll by...
[15:53:28] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm
[16:06:51] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma tries another video card
[16:07:56] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> In the time spent on geting n random hw to work, seems you could have just bought a nice mobo and been running by now.
[16:08:23] <jt-plasma> seems that way
[16:08:43] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> 32 hours @ even $10/hr = $320
[16:09:07] <archivist_attic> he was drinking for 12 hors
[16:09:33] <archivist_attic> and thats $15 hr
[16:09:59] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> $480
[16:12:38] <jt-plasma> only about a zillion choices for mobo's out there
[16:19:29] <Danimal-office> mornin
[16:20:12] <Dannyboy> mornin
[16:35:31] <Danimal-office> yawn
[16:38:37] <SWPadnos> does anyone know if there's a way to get windows to open on specific desktops in gnome, similar to the geometry= option?
[16:39:17] <SWPadnos> devilspie is out, unless it can handle multiple instances of the same program (I want to open a bunch of shells, with specific placements for each)
[16:42:09] <cradek> xterm -geometry ...
[16:42:22] <mozmck_work> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=998033
[16:42:38] <SWPadnos> I haven't found the proper incantation for geometry to specify a different desktop
[16:43:20] <MrSunshine> would a connector rated 24V 0.5A do to run a stepper motor on ? driver is fed with 34V and delivers 1.8A to the stepper motors at full current
[16:43:21] <cradek> in the old days, if your screen was 1600x1200, desktops started at 0x0, 1600x0, 3200x0
[16:43:27] <MrSunshine> make that 50V 0.5A =)
[16:43:37] <SWPadnos> interesting. I don't know if that's true now
[16:43:41] <SWPadnos> but I can check
[16:43:44] <cradek> of course I probably don't know how to do it in these modern days
[16:43:58] <cradek> also, the snarky answer is to not be so anal
[16:44:07] <skunkworks_> heh
[16:44:23] <cradek> or something like "just drag your window where you want it, you big whiner"
[16:44:36] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:44:39] <SWPadnos> yeah, sure
[16:44:44] <cradek> one could also compare the time taken studying this problem compared to the time taken by draggin a window
[16:44:56] <SWPadnos> no, the workspaces/desktops in gnome aren't arranged like a very wide bitmap
[16:44:56] <cradek> or typing out all of "dragging"
[16:45:02] <skunkworks_> Boy - I have to deal with people like SWPadnos all day... Jeeze ;)
[16:45:03] <cradek> bleh
[16:45:34] <SWPadnos> this is a setup thing for the camera array, where I currently need 12 shells, each of which is ssh'ed into a different computer
[16:46:02] <mozmck_work> SWPadnos: looks like from the link I sent there's no good way to do this, unless the last post will work
[16:46:04] <SWPadnos> moving them around on the 7 desktops is easy enough, but it takes time, which is at a premium during setup
[16:46:19] <SWPadnos> I use compiz, so $6 there may be useful
[16:46:21] <archivist_attic> there used to be a save desktop
[16:46:22] <SWPadnos> err, #6
[16:46:37] <mozmck_work> $6 could buy lunch...
[16:46:40] <jthornton> * jthornton wonders if I need to use the ENABLE0 on the 7i33TA to my drive enable bit...
[16:46:56] <SWPadnos> or a cookie
[16:46:58] <SWPadnos> (with coffee)
[16:47:49] <mozmck_work> What about gnome-terminal with tabs? Can you tell it to open multiple tabs?
[16:48:42] <SWPadnos> yes, but a feature I use is the "desktop cube" with transparency, and I watch stuff scroll in all the terminals that way
[16:48:46] <SWPadnos> can't do that with tabs
[16:53:44] <mozmck_work> ah, makes sense.
[16:54:52] <mozmck_work> wait, you mean you don't use windows 7 for that??? surely it can do all of that better?!?
[16:55:23] <SWPadnos> don't call me Shirley
[16:56:14] <SWPadnos> strangely, the (gnome-)terminal refuses to keep its name. I think there's a setting I'm not seeing that causes it to change titles based on directory or running program
[16:57:07] <mozmck_work> oh, I don't know if there's a setting or not. it always changes the title for me.
[16:57:33] <SWPadnos> yep, which I normally like, but in this case I want the title to remain the same at first :)
[16:58:53] <mozmck_work> there probably was a setting and they took it out. sometimes it seems that's gnome's idea of upgrading :)
[16:59:02] <SWPadnos> I bet it's bash actually
[16:59:42] <mozmck_work> dash
[17:00:00] <cradek> it's probably your prompt that does it
[17:00:14] <SWPadnos> yep, PS1
[17:00:14] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 curses expensive LM parts
[17:16:24] <andypugh> MrSunshine: The connector current rating is independent of voltage. SO it it says 0.5A then 1.5A is too much.
[17:16:59] <andypugh> Note that 9-pin D-Sub connectors are rated at between 5A and 7.5A, so are an option.
[17:27:24] <MrSunshine> andypugh, a friend of mine is using same conectors for an amplifier that puts out a heck of alot more power then 0.5A
[17:34:29] <MrSunshine> and im unable to find real specs of them ... as in datasheet :/
[17:38:13] <archivist_attic> amplifiers specs lie
[17:39:12] <archivist_attic> and amplifiers are pulsed not continuous, the average is low
[18:40:24] <ds3> 9
[18:54:49] <aa-danimal-shop> 10
[18:54:58] <bill2or3> pi
[18:55:17] <aa-danimal-shop> that better be french for 11
[18:55:42] <aa-danimal-shop> or i'm going to shake my first from a distance in an angry mannor
[18:55:57] <bill2or3> it's pi.
[18:56:01] <bill2or3> you know, three.
[18:57:31] <skunkworks_> 3ISH
[18:57:37] <skunkworks_> 3ish
[18:57:59] <aa-danimal-shop> 11.00100100001111110110
[18:58:11] <aa-danimal-shop> giess it is some sort of 11
[18:58:18] <aa-danimal-shop> guess*
[18:58:28] <aa-danimal-shop> in binary
[18:59:50] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> No, it's 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342
[19:00:06] <aa-danimal-shop> in binary, it's 11.00100100001111110110
[19:04:49] <jackc> lol
[19:05:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont actually know binary code, it was in wikipedia
[19:05:44] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm not that nerdy
[19:05:49] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[19:06:15] <jackc> binary decimal numbers arent actually used like that anyway
[19:06:30] <aa-danimal-shop> tell wikipedia
[19:06:42] <jackc> look up binary coded decimal if you care
[19:06:51] <SWPadnos> BCD is rarely used
[19:07:03] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[19:07:05] <SWPadnos> that was the binary-point representation, not a BCD representtail
[19:07:10] <SWPadnos> err
[19:07:14] <SWPadnos> representation
[19:07:38] <jackc> SWPadnos: who actually uses that?
[19:07:45] <SWPadnos> computers
[19:07:51] <jackc> uhh no...
[19:07:59] <SWPadnos> uh, yes
[19:08:01] <SWPadnos> :)
[19:08:26] <SWPadnos> floating point is an extension of fixed point, where the fixed point is meant to be shifted by some amount
[19:09:02] <aa-danimal-shop> my pup gets spayed tomorrow
[19:09:06] <SWPadnos> in fixed-point binary, digits to the left go in increasing powers of 2 (just like decimal), and digits to the right of the point go in decreasing powers of 2 (just like decimal)
[19:09:28] <cradek> windows mobile uses bcd for dates
[19:09:41] <SWPadnos> so the number posted was 1*2^1+1*2^0+0*2^-1+0*2^-2 (etc)
[19:09:55] <SWPadnos> heh, so do others apparently, but only sometimes
[19:10:45] <SWPadnos> if you add up the first few digits past the binary point, you see that it's 1/8+1/64+1/2048, etc
[19:12:39] <aa-danimal-shop> 30% off orders over $149 at msc, and 15% off all orders at enco thru friday, if anyone is interested
[19:13:03] <aa-danimal-shop> 15% off orders at enco is probably the better deal since they're usually cheaper anyways
[19:21:48] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> SWPadnos: 42
[19:22:00] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmm
[19:29:08] <aa-danimal-shop> wowsers, my bandsaw just caught on fire
[19:29:25] <aa-danimal-shop> well, the switch did anyways
[19:29:55] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> And you DO have a fire extinguisher in your shop, right?
[19:30:05] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[19:30:38] <aa-danimal-shop> think i would waste that for this crappy bandsaw?
[19:30:50] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[19:30:57] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> that wasn't the question
[19:31:08] <aa-danimal-shop> yes, i have one
[19:31:18] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> 1?
[19:31:32] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[19:32:35] <aa-danimal-shop> i need to get more, i dont think a regular one would work for a titanium or mag fire
[19:32:49] <aa-danimal-shop> i know you need sand for mag
[19:32:58] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> graphite
[19:33:01] <ds3> are you sawing magnesium?
[19:33:15] <aa-danimal-shop> ds3: not at the moment
[19:34:02] <aa-danimal-shop> the switch decided to catch on fire
[19:34:26] <ds3> maybe it doesn't like being turned off ;)
[19:34:41] <aa-danimal-shop> it actually did stay on lol
[19:35:13] <aa-danimal-shop> i guess i gotta go to radio shack and get a new one
[19:35:32] <ds3> who needs a switch... you do continous production sawing all day, right? :D
[19:35:47] <aa-danimal-shop> hardly
[19:36:01] <aa-danimal-shop> i try to buy it already cut
[19:36:33] <aa-danimal-shop> metal supply shops are slow, you'd be amazed how much they'll do just to sell you material
[19:37:21] <aa-danimal-shop> <~~~cheap bastard
[19:37:33] <aa-danimal-shop> <~~~lazy bastard as well
[19:47:21] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> * Jymmmmmmmmmmmm sends aa-danimal-shop to fire training... http://www.fireextinguisher.com/
[20:01:37] <jt-plasma> CB31
[20:24:30] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks Jym
[20:26:55] <aa-danimal-shop> wonder if home depot checks expiration dates on coupons
[20:31:51] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> aa-danimal-shop: Well, did you pass?
[20:37:54] <aa-danimal-shop> didnt do it yet
[20:47:10] <andypugh> I guess a belt and pulley are not normally designed as an intrference fit in the housing?
[20:47:39] <andypugh> So I think a minor redesign is in order.
[20:48:52] <cradek> between parts that are moving and parts not moving, we like to have something called "space"
[20:49:48] <andypugh> Bah! you unimaginative traditionalists!
[20:50:16] <skunkworks_> cut the belt narrower...
[20:50:17] <skunkworks_> ;)
[20:50:18] <cradek> or "oil" or "rolling things"
[20:50:30] <cradek> but I think the one that sounds appropriate in this situation is "space"
[20:51:03] <andypugh> This is round the circumference. I suspect I measured the pulley and forgot about the belt.
[20:51:46] <cradek> I "finished" a steady rest for my lathe last night, and when I went to mount it, it was about an inch too tall
[20:51:52] <cradek> I don't know how I messed that up
[20:52:06] <cradek> all the hard parts are right, I just have to cut it off
[20:52:24] <skunkworks_> odd.
[20:52:40] <cradek> I could have sworn I tried it and it fit a few days ago... guess not.
[20:52:44] <skunkworks_> it is always better to measure twice and cut long...
[20:52:48] <skunkworks_> ;)
[20:53:01] <andypugh> Was it warmer today? By about 3000 degrees?
[20:53:03] <cradek> yes it's good that it's too long.
[20:59:52] <cradek> andypugh: nope
[21:00:31] <dan1mal_garage> did you water it? maybe it grew
[21:00:46] <andypugh> Thinking about it, you would need more than 3000 degrees for 1" of differential expansion (unless your steady-rest was very long indeed, of course)
[21:00:47] <skunkworks_> it will only expand to a certain point - then it turns into a puddle.
[21:01:14] <dan1mal_garage> maybe he ment celcius
[21:02:11] <dan1mal_garage> cradek: pics when it's done! still wanna see your lathe
[21:02:13] <jt-plasma> CB54
[21:02:29] <dan1mal_garage> jt-plasma: is that what wire you're on?
[21:02:54] <dan1mal_garage> how many left?
[21:03:14] <jt-plasma> cables
[21:03:22] <cradek> dan1mal_garage: there's a video of it making something moderately complex - let me find it
[21:03:44] <dan1mal_garage> cradek: cool. i'd like to see your control pannel as well.
[21:03:51] <dan1mal_garage> just for ideasa
[21:03:53] <dan1mal_garage> -a
[21:04:00] <jt-plasma> some 24v to the 7i37's I think
[21:04:13] <cradek> video: http://timeguy.com/cradek/01225159413
[21:04:36] <jt-plasma> all encoders and drives are hooked up except the drive enable... I'm trying to sort that out in my head atm
[21:04:46] <cradek> no panel on the lathe yet. I did make a nice one for the mill though: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[21:04:57] <jt-plasma> all the I/O that I know of is connected
[21:05:35] <jt-plasma> MPG and feed override left to do
[21:06:36] <dan1mal_garage> cradek: cool vid. still gotta take one of mine.
[21:07:10] <dan1mal_garage> cradek: you're toolchanger seems slower than mine. do you have a flow control on it somewhere?
[21:07:27] <dan1mal_garage> jt-plasma: you'll be up and running in no time
[21:07:30] <cradek> no, just the input air regulator
[21:07:38] <cradek> it might be even a bit slower today
[21:07:45] <dan1mal_garage> weird
[21:08:00] <cradek> what air psi are you using?
[21:08:09] <dan1mal_garage> 90
[21:08:18] <cradek> ok I think mine's 80-90 too
[21:08:24] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[21:08:34] <cradek> it's probably old and worn out - someday it'll want some service
[21:08:51] <dan1mal_garage> yours seems to make a weird sound for every position it goes by. is that just the video?
[21:09:08] <cradek> the video sounds real to me
[21:09:09] <dan1mal_garage> btw, not critiquing it, just curous
[21:09:32] <cradek> you won't hurt its feelings if you say it sounds weird...
[21:09:54] <dan1mal_garage> i'm gunna go take a video of mine just to watch the difference side by side
[21:10:04] <cradek> cool
[21:10:16] <dan1mal_garage> lol i dunno, hardinges are kinda sensative
[21:10:39] <cradek> it works reliably - it can sing daisy if it wants to, I don't care
[21:12:46] <cradek> this one sounds just like mine, but turns faster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRPLWzOpFSM
[21:13:10] <dan1mal_garage> i guess mine isnt much different, except mine doesnt make that sound
[21:13:23] <cradek> his sure rapids slow...
[21:13:55] <cradek> oh mach3 - maybe it's steppers
[21:17:18] <cradek> I'm envious of his nice 6-jaw chuck though
[21:18:39] <andypugh> Does the toolchanger clamp down onto a splined plate or similar?
[21:18:52] <dan1mal_garage> yes
[21:19:03] <dan1mal_garage> just took a vid, uploading now
[21:19:09] <andypugh> Nice. I wondered how that was done.
[21:19:22] <cradek> it's extremely repeatable
[21:20:14] <andypugh> Campagnolo use the same idea in their posh crankset.
[21:20:16] <andypugh> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2383807261389850787#
[21:23:21] <dan1mal_garage> andypugh: it has a couple blocks that it settles down on and locates it pretty damn well
[21:29:15] <dan1mal_garage> ugh, youtube is slow
[21:29:23] <dan1mal_garage> come on and process already
[21:31:25] <dan1mal_garage> cradek: seems like your stop almost triggers for every tool position it passes
[21:32:14] <cradek> pretty sure it doesn't
[21:33:09] <dan1mal_garage> just sounds like it, might be the video
[21:43:04] <dan1mal_garage> i really like your mill control pannel cradek
[21:43:12] <cradek> thanks
[21:43:20] <cradek> it's very effective, I love it
[21:43:33] <dan1mal_garage> i need to do something similar on mine
[21:43:33] <frallzor> show!
[21:43:44] <cradek> I do a lot of manual milling with the continuous jog switches
[21:43:54] <dan1mal_garage> cool
[21:44:19] <dan1mal_garage> good idea, i got a few of good switch candidates for that
[21:44:48] <cradek> I like the center-off toggles - it's easy to move the right way
[21:45:07] <cradek> but you can't rest your hand on top, like with the pushbuttons
[21:45:15] <cradek> so I'm not sure either is perfect
[21:45:45] <dan1mal_garage> i have a center-off momentary rotary switch. If you turn it to a certain point, it latches
[21:45:56] <dan1mal_garage> 3 way
[21:45:57] <cradek> bizarre, I haven't seen that
[21:46:02] <dan1mal_garage> they're cool
[21:46:06] <cradek> like a turn signal lever
[21:46:11] <dan1mal_garage> kinda
[21:46:40] <cradek> interesting idea - that might work really well
[21:46:49] <cradek> or, it might be a disaster :-)
[21:46:52] <cradek> not sure which
[21:46:53] <dan1mal_garage> lol
[21:47:01] <dan1mal_garage> they work great, i use them for other stuff
[21:50:50] <tom3p> re "I do a lot of manual milling with the continuous jog switches", would it be handy if the jogs would move the Z axis at begin & end so the cutter didnt start and stop on the work?
[21:51:27] <ds3> tom3p: hmmm isn't there a lag between the jog switches and the mill moving?
[21:51:54] <cradek> tom3p: I wouldn't care for that - it's fine just doing what I say
[21:52:29] <cradek> think of it like using a power feed - you don't try to stop at a certain position - the wheel is for that
[21:53:04] <dan1mal_garage> yea
[21:53:09] <tom3p> i get the idea, what i see in my mind is going past the work, not stopping on the work ( like facing vs pockets )
[21:53:17] <ds3> maybe my setup is broken but jog seems less responsive then hitting go in MDI with a G00 command
[21:53:18] <cradek> exactly
[21:53:47] <dan1mal_garage> good idea on the jog switches cradek. I think i'll do that soon.
[21:53:55] <cradek> like who wants to write gcode to run a face mill, and who cares exactly where it starts and stops
[21:54:16] <ds3> well, your vise and clamps might
[21:54:39] <dan1mal_garage> my vice is usually below the workpiece when i
[21:54:44] <dan1mal_garage> i'm facing
[21:54:45] <cradek> me too
[21:54:49] <cradek> definitely
[21:55:05] <cradek> I usually want to reach the whole face
[21:55:10] <ds3> you guys have big mills
[21:55:58] <dan1mal_garage> thats what she said
[21:56:04] <skunkworks_> sudo manual
[21:56:23] <dan1mal_garage> lol skunkworks_
[21:56:33] <dan1mal_garage> sudo make me a sandwich
[21:56:43] <tom3p> yeh thats a classic
[21:57:04] <dan1mal_garage> i need a shirt that says that
[21:57:14] <tom3p> i got it as desktop wallpaper
[21:57:33] <tom3p> it replaced a green fortran coding sheet
[21:57:57] <dan1mal_garage> cradek: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/?action=view&current=DSCN0793.flv
[21:58:28] <DaViruz> is there a limit to how much spindle and feed override you can have?
[21:58:52] <DaViruz> (if using an external source, not the sliders in AXIS)
[21:59:39] <tom3p> top vel of drive is always a limit, make the OVR what you like, its gonna be truncated tho
[22:00:51] <tom3p> ok, that flv borqd ffox, dang, didnt bookmark the tabs beforehand
[22:01:25] <tom3p> sudo xkill
[22:04:00] <DaViruz> tom3p: ok. i thought maybe the 120% in axis was a fixed limit sitting deeper, glad it's not so
[22:04:50] <tom3p> DaViruz: are you looking for where the '120' is in the code?
[22:05:21] <andypugh> dan1mal_garage: XKCD sells "sudo make me a sandwich" shirts. (And a linux cheat-sheet shirt or skirt too). Near the bottom of http://store.xkcd.com/
[22:05:40] <dan1mal_garage> nice
[22:05:46] <dan1mal_garage> thanks
[22:07:01] <tom3p> are the cheats on the inside of the skirt? that'd be a cool gift for the geek's g/f ( or for the geek i suppose )
[22:08:02] <andypugh> I can't see the skirt any more.
[22:08:30] <andypugh> IIRC it was actually either Perl or Regex as a border round the bottom of the skirt.
[22:08:45] <DaViruz> tom3p: no i'm at work atm so i don't have access to the source
[22:09:37] <andypugh> Regex: http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/2008/08/regex-skirt-review.html
[22:11:50] <ds3> andypugh: thanks the suggestion on the pull ups yesterday
[22:12:01] <andypugh> Did it work>
[22:12:23] <dan1mal_garage> got some magnetic latches for my mill's enclosure door
[22:12:24] <andypugh> (That was meant to be a question mark)
[22:12:34] <dan1mal_garage> should make life easier
[22:12:35] <ds3> you started the chain of thought analysis that eventually made it work
[22:12:52] <ds3> didn't need the pull ups but implementing them caused me to figure out the actual problem
[22:13:28] <andypugh> I am beginning to ponder enclosures, as I think coolant would be handy. It's a bit tricky to configure on a combination machine though.
[22:13:38] <andypugh> And the problem was?
[22:14:09] <ds3> several folds - the thing was pulling too much power so it saw almost everything as lows
[22:14:50] <ds3> so when I gave it enough power, the enable line registered as high (config err) and that prevented it from working... wouldn't have found it if I didn't probe all the pull ups
[22:14:57] <ds3> fix that and the power injection worked
[22:15:51] <ds3> I just wish machinist folks followed the convention of calling things "/Amp Enable" or "Amp Enable#" instead :D
[22:16:52] <bill2or3> congrats ds3
[22:17:26] <andypugh> Lots of stuff uses active-low, as open-collector outputs are so handy for mixing and matching voltages.
[22:17:57] <ds3> *nod* it is just the electronics folks designate the logic in the name
[22:18:47] <ds3> next step is to figure out the synchronous commands
[22:19:00] <andypugh> This denford uses quite a neat enclosure arrangement, I reckon that would work for my combi machine.
[22:19:00] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Denford-Starmill-PC_W0QQitemZ180468857140
[22:19:50] <ds3> that's a small mill
[22:20:03] <andypugh> Isn't it cute?
[22:20:22] <ds3> 4 inches of Y?!? my smallest vise is bigger then the Y travel :(
[22:20:32] <jackc> ds3: my mill has 1.8" of Y travel
[22:20:34] <ds3> I think a lathe milling attachment has more travel
[22:20:44] <andypugh> They make a similar lathe. They are purely educational machines.
[22:20:49] <ds3> jackc: oh?
[22:21:02] <jackc> ds3: i mean it sucks, not gonna lie. but its all i had the money for
[22:21:12] <ds3> jackc: ah
[22:21:13] <jackc> ds3: trying to find a machine to EMC-ize now with more like 6" y travel
[22:21:20] <ds3> thought you might be a jeweler :D
[22:21:32] <jackc> nah, though i did make a lot of boards on it
[22:21:40] <ds3> cuz those jewelers use some expensive mills
[22:21:54] <jackc> quite. this is a proxxon MF70, very accurate albeit tiny
[22:21:56] <andypugh> Using SMT and small outline stuff just because of the Y-axis limits/
[22:22:01] <jt-plasma> mine has 52" X and 36" Y and 2" Z :)
[22:22:09] <jackc> jt-plasma: thats epic!
[22:22:30] <andypugh> You have a pitiful Z :-)
[22:22:37] <jackc> andypugh: yeah, and long :-p
[22:22:39] <jt-plasma> I should have made the Z travel 3"
[22:22:43] <ds3> andypugh: but something that small could just use a large syringe as the coolant feed.. no need for an enclosure
[22:22:47] <jackc> its a plasma, what do ou need Z for
[22:22:56] <jt-plasma> THC
[22:22:59] <andypugh> Corrucated iron?
[22:23:10] <alex_joni> jt-plasma: I guess 90" was the overall screw sizes
[22:23:30] <ds3> eh?
[22:23:44] <ds3> is that what you need to take prior to running the machine? :D
[22:23:46] <jt-plasma> 90"?
[22:23:56] <andypugh> ds3: It's for schools, the enclosure is to be completely and utterly child-finger-proof/
[22:24:44] <ds3> andypugh: I prefer some of the slightly bigger denfords
[22:25:20] <tom3p> it looked like a tube-type tv with a picture of a mill on it
[22:25:24] <andypugh> They used to make proper machine tools, but seem to have found a niche making toys for schools.
[22:25:49] <ds3> I see
[22:26:16] <ds3> I do wish their stuff natively worked on 110V though
[22:26:30] <andypugh> http://www.denford.co.uk/
[22:26:49] <andypugh> They are made in the town where I grew up.
[22:27:02] <archivist> * archivist has a starturn
[22:27:26] <ds3> I am working on refitting an orac
[22:29:45] <andypugh> It seems they also make RP machines too.
[22:40:29] <alex_joni> jt-plasma: 52+36+2
[22:42:07] <jt-plasma> belts
[22:43:14] <dan1mal_garage> sweet, the magnetic latches work perfect
[23:03:30] <tom3p> hurray! my edm oscillator now has an inhibit that stop bad sparks :)))