#emc | Logs for 2010-02-17

[00:00:29] <steve10778> yeah, when i start my emc i get an error.,
[00:00:40] <steve10778> brb
[00:03:25] <steve10778> ok, that worked, and that was very easy thank you. i tried logging in in term with sudo -i password, that lets me change anything that was already there, but i couldnt create a txt file in gedit and save it in etc/udev/rules.d now that i think i am logged in as root on the term window, do i need to log off so i dont screw anything up, or just close the term window?
[00:03:53] <Eric_K> it times out
[00:03:53] <steve10778> <worked meaning i was able to creat the rules file and save it, dont know if that fixed emc problem just yet.>
[00:04:06] <Eric_K> or you can just close the window
[00:04:10] <steve10778> thanks eric and andy
[00:04:26] <Eric_K> to do anything as root you have to prepend with sudo anyway
[00:06:09] <steve10778> im doing my other bridgeport , i had to bring the comp inside because i wasnt getting anywhere out in the garage. i did a bridgeport a while ago, but i ran it with axis as is, this is a cnc bport and i have a lot of config to do to get everything right, and i want to add some stuff on the side of axis. big learning curve doing all this.
[00:07:14] <steve10778> eric, so if i want to open a folder, do i have to type in :sudo filesystem:etc/udev/rules.d? whats the syntax?
[00:08:05] <jt-plasma> I usually do a cd to move to the folder then if I want to edit a file I do sudo gedit rules.d
[00:08:26] <jt-plasma> from the terminal window it would be cd ../..
[00:08:33] <jt-plasma> cd etc/udev
[00:08:50] <steve10778> what is the significance of cd?
[00:09:01] <steve10778> man i cant type today sorry
[00:09:02] <Jymmmmm> CD == change directory
[00:09:08] <steve10778> ok cool
[00:09:11] <Jymmmmm> err cd
[00:10:23] <jt-plasma> some good info here http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_Linux_FAQ.html
[00:10:31] <jt-plasma> if your a linux newbee
[00:10:56] <jt-plasma> jt-plasma is now known as Jtmmmmmmmmmmm
[00:11:00] <Jymmmmm> what's linux? Is that some snoopy cartoon thingy?
[00:11:05] <Jtmmmmmmmmmmm> yea
[00:11:16] <Jtmmmmmmmmmmm> Jtmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as jt-plasma
[00:11:33] <jt-plasma> he plays the piano
[00:11:33] <Jymmmmm> Jymmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmm
[00:14:43] <Eric_K> I need a 1/2" tap and can't get one
[00:15:00] <andypugh> Make one
[00:15:03] <Eric_K> does Home Depot and the like carry such a thing?
[00:15:07] <jt-plasma> what shape tap?
[00:15:16] <Eric_K> round
[00:15:25] <jt-plasma> yea they have them
[00:15:49] <jt-plasma> 1/2" npt, npts, nf, nc ???
[00:15:57] <Eric_K> nc
[00:16:22] <jt-plasma> I doubt they have that, they might have npt if your lucky
[00:16:28] <jt-plasma> got a Lowes near?
[00:16:37] <Eric_K> yes
[00:17:05] <andypugh> I wasn't entirely joking with the suggestion to make one. Depends what equipment you have.
[00:17:13] <andypugh> What are you threading?
[00:17:24] <Eric_K> some alloy steel
[00:17:38] <andypugh> Too big to single-point on a lathe?
[00:18:01] <Eric_K> no gearbox on the lathe at this time
[00:18:23] <andypugh> That rather precludes making one too, then.
[00:19:06] <andypugh> I guess a rigid tapping cycle in a mill with a pointy boring bar would make a thread eventually....
[00:19:45] <jt-plasma> I'd bet Lowes would have one more than Homer Depot
[00:19:50] <Eric_K> what is it about taps that makes lowes and HD not want to find them with search
[00:20:05] <jt-plasma> pick up the phone
[00:20:05] <andypugh> I just don't get why the 24 hour supermarkets don't stock such essentials.
[00:20:21] <jt-plasma> come over her you can borrow mine
[00:20:25] <jt-plasma> here
[00:20:58] <andypugh> And finding taps online is harder still in the UK, we call the things you call "faucets" "taps"
[00:21:30] <Eric_K> well, searching for tap leads to the electrical section here in the U.S.
[00:22:17] <jt-plasma> and a bonnet is a hood and a butt end is ...
[00:23:02] <Eric_K> ace hardware is better, at least on line
[00:23:15] <andypugh> www.screwfix.com (just down the road, open till 20:30) sell three different tap and die sets, but if you search you find 5 pages of shiny plumbing fittings and no threading tools.
[00:31:13] <steve10778> ok, i have a mess with my config files, so im trying to just get the keyboard to load. in terminal, i did cd emc2, then halrun then halcmd: loadusr -W hal_input -K keyboard and it says" no input devices could be opened this usually indicates a misconfigured system. please read...manpage so i did. and i tried to follow hal_input manpage and i created a rule in etc/udev/rules.d as per man page. so i def. have something wron
[00:32:10] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma listens to Jelly Roll Morton - Billy Goat Stomp
[00:33:03] <jt-plasma> I get my taps from MSC
[00:34:09] <jt-plasma> steve10778: what are you trying to load the keyboard for?
[00:34:14] <andypugh> steve10778: I am puzzled about why Linux can see your keyboard but pyvcp can't. It all sounds very odd. I have not heard of anyone having to do any configuration to use a keyboard before.
[00:35:05] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[00:35:48] <jt-plasma> that's what I was wondering...
[00:37:19] <steve10778> i want to link my m key to a button on a pyvcp panel. so i and2 the m key and the pyvcp button. john f file has the loadusr keyboard stuff. i get errors like vcpmkey not found, etc etc. and no keyboardpins show up in halshow
[00:37:22] <jt-hardinge> W: Failed to fetch http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/~buildmaster/dists/v2.4_branch/master-rt/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found
[00:37:24] <jt-hardinge> W: Failed to fetch http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/~buildmaster/dists/v2.4_branch/master-rt/source/Sources.gz 404 Not Found
[00:37:27] <jt-hardinge> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[00:37:29] <jt-hardinge> john@hardinge:/etc/apt/sources.list.d$ sudo apt-get install emc2
[00:38:08] <jt-hardinge> I get this error after doing a sudo apt-get update
[00:38:57] <oddnamezor> oddnamezor is now known as frallzor
[00:40:03] <steve10778> jt plasma, does that make sense? if you go to machineabilty.com, i am trying to do a similar thing on my bridgeport, go to projects, series ii, at the bottom are copies of his postgui, panel and hal files., you can kind of see what im doing.
[00:40:20] <steve10778> if you have time
[00:42:40] <jt-plasma> I got a 404 at machineabilty.com
[00:43:08] <andypugh> You missed out an "i"
[00:45:08] <andypugh> steve10778: Hmm. How is your keyboard named if you type less /proc/bus/input/devices
[00:45:41] <steve10778> http://www.machineability.com/Bridgeport_series_II.html
[00:46:01] <andypugh> (I am looking at how input devices are configured here"
[00:46:03] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[00:46:48] <andypugh> It might well be that "keyboard" does not appear in your keyboards "what am I called" string.
[00:46:56] <steve10778> andy, hang on ill tell you. i did " less" and tried using the name, not sure if i have to have the id and all the other stuff.
[00:47:15] <steve10778> brb, let me do "less" and i will report.
[00:49:04] <steve10778> name= AT Translated Set 2 keyboard
[00:49:45] <steve10778> phys= isa0060/serio0/input0
[00:50:13] <andypugh> Exactly the same as mine
[00:50:35] <andypugh> Hmm, and I have not edited any rules.
[00:51:04] <andypugh> Change the loadusr line to loadusr -W hal_input -KRAL keyboard ?
[00:51:18] <andypugh> Because that just worked for my without any reconfiguration.
[00:51:30] <Eric_K> yer special
[00:51:38] <andypugh> (I have no idea what KRAL does, I copied blindly)
[00:52:43] <steve10778> kral is the subset for the device features supported, k= buttons and keys, a = analog, r = relative analog, l= led outputs
[00:52:59] <andypugh> Ah. OK.
[00:53:02] <steve10778> but hell, let me try KRAL! brb.
[00:54:59] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma: are you awake?
[00:55:06] <andypugh> I am now wondering what my "zenkakuhanukaku" key is
[00:55:15] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma remembers he was cutting out parts on the band saw
[00:55:23] <jt-plasma> just barely
[00:55:39] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma: sent your processors
[00:55:46] <jt-plasma> cool
[00:56:15] <Danimal-office> woulda sent them yesterday, but no mail since it was a holiday
[00:56:38] <jt-plasma> yea, they POff workers get all the breaks
[00:56:53] <Danimal-office> yea, then they go postal
[00:57:25] <jt-plasma> LOL
[00:57:48] <Danimal-office> try the one with the sticker that says xp2600 first
[00:57:48] <andypugh> steve10778: I need to go sleep now, but what you are doing does make sense now, and looks like it also ought to work. (if I can make is work then it has to be easy)
[00:58:21] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma: i got my coolant working the way i want it last night
[00:58:38] <steve10778> andy, it wont load. can you loadusr Wn hal_input -KRAL keyboard in a term window ? what do you get?
[00:59:04] <steve10778> i can loadrt siggen, haha, thats about it.
[00:59:06] <andypugh> After typing halcmd you mean?
[00:59:09] <jt-plasma> cool
[00:59:10] <Danimal-office> i have it so the coolant button overrides the program, and the program overrides the button
[00:59:11] <steve10778> yeah
[00:59:42] <jt-plasma> I got Cocoa to play leap-frog correctly finally
[00:59:56] <andypugh> When I type "Show all" I get a huge list of pins corresponding to keys I dodn't know I had, as well as the usual ones
[01:00:09] <Danimal-office> so even if i forget to add an m8, i can still turn it on in the middle of the program, and the coolant will turn off after the program ends, even without an m9
[01:00:20] <jt-plasma> cool
[01:00:20] <Danimal-office> Cocoa?
[01:00:26] <jt-plasma> my black lab
[01:00:39] <Danimal-office> leap frog? that's impressive lol
[01:00:57] <steve10778> andy, so you are halcmd: loadusr .......
[01:01:05] <steve10778> then halcmd: show all
[01:01:08] <jt-plasma> yea, I do all the leaping she just runs back between my legs after I leap over her
[01:01:11] <steve10778> and it lists your pins?
[01:01:16] <Danimal-office> haha
[01:01:19] <andypugh> It does
[01:01:25] <Danimal-office> must look crazy to your neighbors
[01:01:40] <jt-plasma> neighbors can not see my house
[01:01:50] <andypugh> Though I am assuming you miss-typed loadusr -W hal_input back there?
[01:01:54] <steve10778> are you in emc2 halshow, or just in a term window with emc closed?
[01:02:01] <jt-plasma> I live on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road in the woods
[01:02:10] <Danimal-office> thats good, they'd be over all the time for your jerky and smoked meats
[01:02:29] <jt-plasma> they can smell at least a mile that is for sure
[01:02:37] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma: i take it washing your cars gets to be a lost cause
[01:02:40] <andypugh> terminal window
[01:03:36] <Danimal-office> i wish i had that much land, my lot is only like 7000 feet
[01:03:39] <jt-plasma> we do that after the road salt has a rain to wash it away, but other than that the only thing that gets a regular wash it the blue wing
[01:03:41] <steve10778> hang on, i had to instal show all....
[01:03:45] <steve10778> install
[01:03:46] <steve10778> *
[01:04:19] <steve10778> what the hell
[01:04:53] <steve10778> andy thanks for sticking with me, but i cant do show all
[01:05:06] <jackc> woohoo heard back from craigslist, getting a lathe to CNC-ize this saturday
[01:05:15] <andypugh> Actually. I lied. I do have a file called 50-input-permissions.rules which must date back to when I was messing with a USB pendant.
[01:05:56] <andypugh> steve10778: EMC standard install or run-in-place?
[01:06:39] <Guest8213> Is skunkworks in the house?
[01:06:39] <steve10778> ubuntu hardy heron just installed it about 3 weeks ago.
[01:07:01] <andypugh> And you built EMC from source?
[01:07:14] <steve10778> standard install i think you are asking , i used the live cd .iso
[01:07:27] <andypugh> OK, that's good.
[01:07:38] <steve10778> hahah, build anything from source would be laffable for my dumbass, haha
[01:07:46] <andypugh> What happens if you type "emc" in a terminal window, does EMC2 start?
[01:08:05] <Danimal-office> jackc: what are you getting?
[01:08:20] <steve10778> yeah, i get the emc2 config selector screen
[01:08:24] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma wanders inside with the dog looking for the feed bag
[01:08:29] <andypugh> There goes that idea.
[01:08:41] <steve10778> what where you thinking haha?
[01:09:07] <andypugh> So, if you type "halrun" you get the "halcmd:" prompt, but "show all" doesn't work?
[01:09:14] <jackc> Danimal-office: 30" bed bench lathe, unsure of company as its fairly old, cheap as its an estate sale
[01:10:06] <andypugh> On a run-in-place system you need to run an emc-environment script to set up the environment before halrun or emc work as commands
[01:10:58] <steve10778> it worked that time, let me see what it says
[01:10:59] <Guest8213> what is a "run-in-place system" ?
[01:11:43] <steve10778> well, it shows nothing. because i have a new hal loaded, not my emc hal.
[01:11:53] <andypugh> It's an alternative to a standard installation which means you can have several different versions without them overwriting each others files in shared areas.
[01:12:03] <andypugh> steve10778: That's fine.
[01:12:12] <andypugh> Now try the loadusr line?
[01:12:15] <steve10778> i have fields displayed, lilke component pins pin aliases, signals,
[01:12:21] <steve10778> ok, let me try loading the keyboard
[01:13:32] <steve10778> same message, no input devices could be loaded please read permissions and udev in hal_input man page
[01:14:52] <steve10778> loadusr -W hal_input -KRAL keyboard is what i put in.
[01:14:54] <andypugh> What was the name of the permissions file you created?
[01:15:42] <steve10778> 05-emckeyboard.rules
[01:16:18] <andypugh> I think that might be too early in the sequence.
[01:16:39] <steve10778> should i do 40- permissions
[01:16:51] <andypugh> Mine is a 50-permissions.
[01:17:16] <steve10778> or just add to that file, SUBSYSTEM== XXXXXX AS PER MAN PAGE,
[01:17:39] <andypugh> specifically 50-input-permissions.rules
[01:18:25] <andypugh> and it contains SUBSYSTEM=="input", mode="0660", group="plugdev"
[01:18:27] <steve10778> the man page says to just create a new file, which is what i did.
[01:18:52] <steve10778> what you typed, is verbatim from the man page.
[01:19:11] <steve10778> did you make the 50-perm file, or was it there already?
[01:19:12] <andypugh> Yeah, my 50-input... was a new file. I think that I read that the files get read in numerical order so 50- overwrites 40- and so on.
[01:19:42] <steve10778> makes sense, and since mine was 05 it was overwritten at 40
[01:19:51] <steve10778> let me rename and save, see what happens.
[01:20:01] <andypugh> I just repeat this stuff verbatim like magical incantations, I have no idea what all this linuxy stuff really does.
[01:20:49] <steve10778> yeah, but i appreciate you spending time with me talking it out. i work on fanuc and siemens and ab, etc at work, i get automation, im just having a hard time with this cuz its a black box to me right now.
[01:20:57] <andypugh> I am assuming that your file doesn't literally say "XXXX AS PER MAN PAGE"?
[01:21:09] <steve10778> no, im just lazy and didnt want to type all that
[01:21:18] <andypugh> Just checking :-)
[01:21:46] <steve10778> let me know if i confuse you. i know you are paying attention to syntax,
[01:22:03] <steve10778> alright, let me go change that see what happens, brb.
[01:22:11] <andypugh> I don't know if the permissions only get read at boot time. It seems likely.
[01:22:11] <clytle374> Are you rebooting or reloading hal for test? Just a thought.
[01:22:44] <andypugh> Yeah, I have a feeling that you need to reboot after changing the permissions files. Perhaps somebody here actually knows?
[01:24:14] <clytle374> you must reboot or reload hal, the files are only read at those times
[01:28:05] <steve10778> hey andy, sudo me, how do i delete my 05 file that i dont need any more, sudo -i in term window?
[01:28:30] <Guest8213> My kernel build and EMC build from source didn't help. I am still getting the hang and the "Major opcode of failed request: 53 (X_CreatPixmap) error on my Intel D945GCLF2D mobo. I am so tired of this....
[01:29:09] <andypugh> cd /etc/udev/rules.d
[01:29:30] <andypugh> then sudo rm 05-
[01:29:53] <andypugh> Then press "tab" and it should fill out the rest of the filename
[01:30:02] <steve10778> ok, i can follow that, rm is remove?
[01:30:07] <andypugh> rm means "remove"
[01:30:12] <steve10778> k.
[01:30:27] <steve10778> so i cant just superuser myself, and right click and delete it. haha
[01:30:37] <andypugh> Possibly.
[01:30:39] <steve10778> that is so annoying
[01:30:44] <steve10778> not used to linux.
[01:30:50] <steve10778> not at all
[01:30:51] <steve10778> haha
[01:30:59] <steve10778> brb.
[01:31:01] <andypugh> Nor me, I am a 20-year Mac-user
[01:31:37] <john_f_> steve10778: did you get your keyboard input to work?
[01:31:53] <andypugh> Still working on it
[01:32:51] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/pullyspullys.JPG
[01:33:26] <john_f_> I figured out what I did. Just added a file in /etc/udev/rules.d it looks like you are onto the solution right?
[01:33:59] <steve10778> hi john! no, andy is helping me out. learning some things, my kungfu is weeeeeeaaaaak. haha
[01:34:04] <andypugh> We hope so.
[01:34:13] <steve10778> yes, john, just getting the stuff in now,
[01:34:20] <andypugh> (Talk about the blind leading the blind)
[01:34:40] <andypugh> skunkworks: Are those some form of taperlock?
[01:34:49] <steve10778> ok andy, 50 permissions in , you think i should reboot the whole thing then term window hal...... show all see if get it?
[01:35:04] <andypugh> Yeah, seems like a reasonable plan.
[01:35:16] <Danimal-office> steve10778: feng shui
[01:35:32] <Danimal-office> not kung fu
[01:35:37] <steve10778> k, makes sense, i didnt think it read the files inside the folder in a scanning fashion.
[01:35:39] <Danimal-office> :)
[01:36:50] <steve10778> no , kung fu, my computer skills<<<<kung fu. there are 10 kinds of people in the word, those who understand binary, and those that dont
[01:37:28] <steve10778> world*
[01:37:38] <steve10778> please, someone laugh
[01:38:00] <andypugh> I laughed when I first heard it, but that was some time ago :-)
[01:38:26] <steve10778> i saw it on a shirt, i would like to get that shirt and test my boss, haha
[01:38:58] <andypugh> This cartoon will suddenly make sense to you now: http://xkcd.com/149/
[01:39:02] <steve10778> john, you winging chips with your series ii ?
[01:39:22] <john_f_> not at the moment but I have.
[01:39:31] <steve10778> how is it working for you?
[01:40:11] <john_f_> OK I still need to get more time on it and confidence but I like it
[01:40:48] <john_f_> I am not convinced that it is tuned optimally yet
[01:41:12] <skunkworks> andypugh: yes
[01:41:31] <steve10778> my other one took a little monkeying to tune, play around with the feedforwards to get that heavy bastard moving, your tables weigh a ton.
[01:41:44] <steve10778> nice cartoon andy,
[01:41:57] <steve10778> ok, im going to open up term window and see if i have a keyboard. brb.
[01:45:06] <steve10778> damn, its nice when a plan comes together! man page says it all, but its up to you to know linux, the man page should not read "just create a file in the rules.d folder, it should read find out where your subsystem=== stuff is in permissions then create a folder with a higher number, because this will overwrite blah blah blah, you know what i mean.
[01:45:15] <steve10778> but all the pins show up andy!
[01:45:39] <andypugh> Excellent.
[01:45:40] <steve10778> so now i can play with my postgui/.xml.hal etc etc and see what i can do.
[01:45:54] <john_f_> cool
[01:46:05] <steve10778> thank you so much, i do better talking it out with someone. thanks john,
[01:46:52] <steve10778> im going to note that, i think if time allows i would like to put a "roadblock" map of my progress together, and solutions to the roadblocks.
[01:47:10] <steve10778> post it on the forum for other noobs like me
[01:47:32] <steve10778> not bad, 22 hours to get the keyboard working.
[01:47:35] <steve10778> hahaha
[01:47:41] <john_f_> good idea. I was not always good at writing things down that I did.
[01:47:51] <andypugh> The only reason I try to help here is that I know only fractionally more about it than nothing. Which hopefully means I am closer to the mindset of people with problems than an EMC2/Linux guru would be. That's my theory anyway.
[01:48:25] <steve10778> yeah but andy, you are most likely the same as me, you learn by doing, by teaching and by talking
[01:48:43] <skunkworks> and making mistakes.
[01:48:46] <skunkworks> ;)
[01:48:47] <steve10778> haha
[01:49:16] <andypugh> Anyway, heading for 2am here.
[01:50:28] <steve10778> john, my setup is going to be a bit different than yours, i was wondering if you would be willing to send me a copy of your .ini it would help me see when/where calls are made to the other items in the config folder., i have to merge some of your ideas into mine, because our machines are similar, and add stuff/ideas that i want on top of that, while preserving the out of the box ppmc setup
[01:50:36] <steve10778> andy thank you.
[01:51:36] <john_f_> ok but if I were going to start over I would make the numbers in the ini file inches not mm
[01:51:51] <john_f_> I used mm since the machine is metric.
[01:52:02] <steve10778> yeah, i was going to use inches.
[01:52:13] <steve10778> actually, it already is.
[01:52:22] <john_f_> The thing that I don't like is then the tool table has to be mm
[01:52:53] <steve10778> why is that?
[01:53:05] <SWPadnos> I think the tool table is actually "whatever the current units are"
[01:53:11] <SWPadnos> which is probably a bug
[01:53:13] <john_f_> It would be nice if you could just add the units to the lines in the tool table
[01:53:19] <SWPadnos> it would be nive
[01:53:21] <SWPadnos> nice
[01:53:54] <Jymmmmmm> //\\\/\///\\\/\
[01:54:19] <steve10778> i remember reading a post about that, if you jump from one unit to the other, you have to change your table right? what about having two tables, ready, just rename the one you arent using. still a pain in the butt
[01:54:38] <SWPadnos> you can load different tool tables
[01:54:44] <john_f_> you don't have to change the table if you go from G20 To G21
[01:54:50] <SWPadnos> there's a menu item, I believe
[01:54:55] <john_f_> you just need to always use the same units
[01:54:59] <SWPadnos> you can also specify tool table entries with G10
[01:55:05] <Jymmmmmm> Lunch special #2
[01:56:40] <Jymmmmmm> Anyone know anything about knots? I'm looking for a specific one I forgot.
[01:56:59] <john_f_> with a rope?
[01:57:04] <Jymmmmmm> yes
[01:57:21] <john_f_> what kind of knot?
[01:57:22] <SWPadnos> sheepshank?
[01:58:35] <Jymmmmmm> Ok, single line. Think tent poles. You could pull on the end and it it would tension the line. Also if you pulled on another part of it, it would completely come undone (like a slip knot).
[01:58:47] <SWPadnos> half hitch
[01:59:09] <SWPadnos> http://www.netknots.com/html/half_hitch.html
[01:59:38] <SWPadnos> or two of them anyway
[01:59:42] <john_f_> taut line hitch
[02:00:05] <Jymmmmmm> john_f_: I *think* so, but I haent found it
[02:00:12] <john_f_> wiki
[02:00:17] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a double half-hitch with an extra loop in the first one
[02:00:20] <Jymmmmmm> illustrated enough I
[02:00:26] <SWPadnos> http://www.netknots.com/html/tautline_hitch.html
[02:00:37] <steve10778> yay! i got the keyboard to load in emc and i can see it change state in halshow, its a celebration! i think i will have a beer now. ha
[02:00:41] <SWPadnos> here's the whole list: http://www.netknots.com/html/knots.html
[02:00:42] <john_f_> learned it in boy scouts
[02:00:46] <SWPadnos> yep :)
[02:00:53] <SWPadnos> but that was many many years ago
[02:01:00] <Jymmmmmm> john_f_: That's close but it doens't slip out
[02:01:08] <Jymmmmmm> like the knot I'm looking for does
[02:01:39] <SWPadnos> the double half hitch can be moved around, but when the line is taut, the second rope pulls the knot at an angle, and it doesn't move easily
[02:01:40] <Jymmmmmm> SWPadnos: thanks
[02:02:17] <Jymmmmmm> I think this is it!!!!!!! http://www.netknots.com/html/truckers_hitch.html
[02:03:22] <steve10778> steve, had to make a permissions file in /etc/udev/rules.d SUBSYSTEM=="input",mode="0660",group="plugdev" in a file named numerically higher than 40-permissions.rules, that worked.
[02:03:25] <Jymmmmmm> Well, it has that 'loopl' as shown on #1
[02:03:28] <Jymmmmmm> loop
[02:03:35] <steve10778> from my problem last night.
[02:03:42] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:03:52] <SWPadnos> that's in the manpage for hal_input, I believe
[02:04:41] <steve10778> yeah, it just wasnt clear that it had to be placed higher than the permissions folder, because as its read they write over the previous file. i had mine numbered 05, which is first in line
[02:04:55] <steve10778> andy helped me out
[02:05:06] <SWPadnos> ah
[02:05:12] <steve10778> but thank you also
[02:05:18] <steve10778> john, do you have my home email?
[02:05:33] <john_f_> I am lookin for it now but don't see it
[02:05:44] <clytle374> What fixed the keyboard? My client checked out for a minute
[02:07:10] <steve10778> fx109@adelphia.net or fx109@roadrunner.com
[02:08:19] <Jymmmmmm> Um, NEVER give your clear email address on irc. *ALWAYS* obfuscate them.
[02:08:58] <steve10778> like dot, and at instead of .@? what do you mean?
[02:09:01] <SWPadnos> because no computer can tell the difference between name AT place DOT com and name@place.com
[02:09:04] <Jymmmmmm> * Jymmmmmm {at} whitehouse _DOT_ gov
[02:09:34] <SWPadnos> (I'll bet that <500 characters of perl could figure out most obfuscations of that type)
[02:09:34] <Jymmmmmm> SWPadnos: you're not thinking evil enough
[02:09:44] <steve10778> does that screw up the irc?
[02:09:54] <SWPadnos> no, it's s security risk for you
[02:09:59] <SWPadnos> a
[02:10:16] <SWPadnos> there are people/programs that scour the internet for email addresses to which to send spam
[02:10:34] <Jymmmmmm> SWPadnos: They arenot going to go thru EVERY bt of text found on the interwebs, they ae just looking for patterns that LOOK like an email address.
[02:10:47] <steve10778> ok, thanks for the heads up. too late now haha
[02:10:49] <john_f_> steve10778: I just sent it
[02:10:53] <steve10778> john, recd
[02:11:01] <steve10778> thank you. i know it will help.
[02:11:11] <SWPadnos> sure, and something like .*at.*dot.* (with some length and whitespace fiddling) would snag many of them
[02:11:24] <steve10778> john, what state are you in?
[02:11:29] <Jymmmmmm> Cool! I just found a PDF of 'The Ashley Book of Knots'!!!
[02:11:37] <john_f_> WI
[02:11:44] <steve10778> can you hear me?
[02:12:13] <Guest8213> skunkworks?
[02:12:18] <steve10778> im screaming joyously that i got the damn keyboard i/o to show up on hal config
[02:12:21] <steve10778> !haha
[02:12:37] <Guest8213> did you happen to get a chance to test your intel motherboard with a 2G memory chip?
[02:12:57] <SWPadnos> skunkworks checked his, and it worked fine
[02:13:00] <skunkworks> yes - ran with no issues.
[02:13:04] <Guest8213> damn
[02:13:32] <Guest8213> I built a new kernel with SMP support and rebuilt EMC on that. No help
[02:13:44] <skunkworks> by chance - do you have both the main power plug and the 4 pin extra power pin? (I would think it would not run)
[02:13:57] <Guest8213> Yes
[02:14:15] <Guest8213> I will see if the company will exchange it. I guess that is my next move.
[02:14:32] <Guest8213> thanks for doing that.
[02:15:10] <steve10778> >>>>clytle374, are you still here?
[02:15:18] <clytle374> yeah
[02:15:40] <steve10778> sorry, you asked a question, did you see the answer? about the keyboard
[02:16:12] <clytle374> I saw you changed it from 05-
[02:16:17] <clytle374> was that all
[02:16:19] <clytle374> ?
[02:18:11] <steve10778> if you look at man page for hal_input, you have to create a new rules file in rules.d folder, i named mine 05-whatever.rules, well there is a file named 40-permissions.rules, which had all the info for the keyboard., so because this was higher it overwrites my 05 folder. so i renamed it 50.whatever.rules
[02:18:46] <steve10778> with the rule written as listed in the man page.
[02:19:26] <clytle374> I was just wondering what you did. Me and hal have had isues since it was new.
[02:19:44] <steve10778> k
[02:20:57] <steve10778> john, i got the haas vf2 running and making parts. how much does it cost to setup a webpage like yours, i would like to put up some pics and stuff. dont want to do it on myspace or the like.
[02:23:02] <john_f_> dont remember the exact cost. maybe $70 year? Much less if you have ads
[02:24:13] <steve10778> something to look into.
[02:24:55] <steve10778> haas is pretty cool to have in the garage, me and my buddy are looking for some small jobs. right now its just a toy
[02:25:58] <clytle374> cool toy
[02:27:59] <steve10778> i have about 16 holders for it, so enough to get stupid when i want... its nice to just mastercam a part and machine, thats what i cant do now with my bridgeport cnc, so im emc2ing it. i took all the cnc stuff off of my manual bridgeport so it could be, um manual. its nice to have just a plain jane bport again.
[02:29:12] <steve10778> i had been reluctant to do it, because of the time involved, but with the haas sitting there, now i have all the time i need. i just cant do little second ups on the bport during this transition time, those have to be done on the haas or the manual bport
[02:31:58] <steve10778> hey john, i notice on your files you have revision notes on the bottom of the file, did you type all that or is it generated by ?
[02:32:14] <john_f_> used rcs
[02:32:54] <steve10778> what is that?
[02:33:18] <john_f_> revison control system? or something like that
[02:33:27] <john_f_> you check out a file to edit
[02:33:35] <john_f_> when done you check it back in
[02:33:52] <john_f_> lets you go back to an older revision if needed
[02:33:57] <steve10778> this is a program?
[02:34:11] <john_f_> yes type "man rcs"
[02:34:39] <john_f_> but you really will mostly use "co" and "ci"
[02:34:56] <steve10778> ok, was this in the manual i feel like im asking to be spoon fed, i apologize
[02:35:38] <john_f_> no it has nothing to do with EMC just a utility avaliable with the OS
[02:36:12] <steve10778> come on, are you a linux guru???
[02:37:01] <john_f_> no i am not. I know just enough to get by. Many years ago all of the good engineering tools were on Unix OS systems
[02:37:34] <steve10778> thank you for the info.
[02:37:47] <steve10778> are you an engineer?
[02:37:59] <john_f_> Electical Engineer
[02:38:08] <john_f_> Electrical
[02:38:32] <SWPadnos> eclectical
[02:38:37] <Danimal-office> lol
[02:38:56] <john_f_> yah something like that
[02:39:00] <Danimal-office> i accomplished a whole lot of nothing today
[02:39:21] <steve10778> cool. im an electrician, i work on machine tools now for b&w. i was an electrician/automation tech at a steel mill. wanted to go back to school for elec. eng, but havent been able to pull that off yet.
[02:39:50] <clytle374> steve, the Linux learnign curve is steep.
[02:39:53] <Danimal-office> maybe i'll organize the garage. one of my neighbors had a bunch of steel racks for free on their front yard so i grabbed them. time to put them to use!
[02:40:28] <steve10778> im learning the guts of fanuc at work now, my head hurts, linux, fanuc, emc2, aaaaaah
[02:40:36] <Danimal-office> lol
[02:40:38] <Danimal-office> yea
[02:40:49] <Danimal-office> alot to take in at first
[02:40:51] <steve10778> after 3 years of learning siemens plc and drive, now i dont use it right now.
[02:41:16] <steve10778> but it is similar to some fanuc ladder stuff, all the european stuff
[02:41:35] <Danimal-office> it almost feels like you have to learn it all before you can even do the basic stuff
[02:41:55] <Danimal-office> like BAM! here it is, sink or swim
[02:41:58] <clytle374> anyone mess with the EMC source?
[02:42:24] <steve10778> well the irc, is the place to be, second day on here, and seems like if you have a problem, there is at least one guy on here willing to hold your hand and figure out what your malfunction is, whether it be brain/or cpu, haha
[02:42:46] <Danimal-office> it's alot to take in at first
[02:43:05] <Danimal-office> it almost feels like you have to learn it all before you can even do the basic stuff
[02:43:09] <steve10778> the emc is like you say danimal, you have to know it all to do a simple thing, but i learned a lot tonight, and i dont mind because this is the hobby part of it.
[02:43:15] <Danimal-office> like BAM! here it is, sink or swim
[02:43:44] <clytle374> It's almost always OE
[02:43:53] <Danimal-office> yea... i'm just starting to get comfortable with it
[02:44:08] <steve10778> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sandwich.png
[02:44:13] <Danimal-office> OE? old english? malt liquor?
[02:44:29] <steve10778> my first linux joke,
[02:44:37] <Danimal-office> hahaha
[02:44:46] <Danimal-office> i like that
[02:44:52] <clytle374> Operator Error
[02:44:55] <Danimal-office> oh
[02:45:09] <Danimal-office> i liked Old English better
[02:45:55] <clytle374> A hysterical guy called me once to say the brake resistor on the top of his CNC lathe red hot
[02:45:55] <Danimal-office> speaking of, it's about beer thirty
[02:46:23] <Danimal-office> clytle374: did he find out the hard way?
[02:46:54] <clytle374> I was tying to figure out why he was frantic,, he called me instead of shutting it off
[02:47:07] <steve10778> can i load and2 count=1 and then in another place and2 names= xyzabc? or is the and2 load a one shot deal?
[02:47:13] <clytle374> That always makes me feel better about my short commings
[02:47:32] <SWPadnos> steve10778, no, you can't load the same component in more than one place
[02:47:32] <steve10778> i mean do i have to load all of my and2 in one place?
[02:47:49] <steve10778> i didnt think so, but i didnt know.
[02:47:59] <steve10778> makes sense.
[02:48:29] <steve10778> im cleaning up my files over here steve, merging new stuff in with old stuff and other peoples stuff to come up with good stuff, haha
[02:48:34] <SWPadnos> one day we may get there, but not yet
[02:48:44] <Danimal-office> clytle374: check out these resistors i got for braking... they dont even get warm to the touch: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/?action=view&current=DSCN0762.jpg&newest=1
[02:49:03] <steve10778> steve are you a developer?
[02:49:09] <Danimal-office> sorry, this might work betterhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0762.jpg
[02:50:41] <clytle374> I can't copy and paste out of this program:(
[02:54:32] <john_f_> steve10778: When you want to get someones attention type part of their nic and hit he tab key it will auto fill in the rest of the the name (maybe in most irc clients) and the person will see the message highlighted in a different color.
[02:54:37] <Danimal-office> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0762.jpg
[02:54:49] <Danimal-office> are you on mirc?
[02:55:13] <clytle374> on the linuxcn.org site
[02:55:17] <clytle374> gettign xchat now
[02:55:37] <Danimal-office> to copy and paste, highlight it with the mouse, then hit ctrl+c before you let go of the mouse button
[02:55:41] <steve10778> john_f_ ok
[02:55:46] <Danimal-office> little tricky but it works
[02:55:56] <Danimal-office> ah ok
[02:56:49] <clytle374> it opens another box with the text that you can't ctrl+c the text out of either.
[02:57:07] <steve10778> john_f_ thanks for the tip
[02:57:23] <john_f_> steve10778: np
[02:57:25] <steve10778> not highlighting in color but tab works
[02:58:02] <john_f_> the highlighting is on the receive end
[02:58:12] <Danimal-office> thats lame, why would it make it hard to copy?
[02:58:26] <Danimal-office> i never got that with mirc either
[02:58:58] <steve10778> im not seeing it here
[02:59:05] <steve10778> from you i mean
[02:59:25] <john_f_> are you using x-chat?
[02:59:45] <john_f_> i mean XChat
[02:59:59] <steve10778> no, embedded java from linuxcnc.org
[03:00:30] <john_f_> OK it must not have that feature or you don't have it enabled
[03:01:06] <clytle3742> got that picture again?
[03:01:31] <Danimal-office> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0762.jpg
[03:02:05] <Danimal-office> 2.2kw resistors
[03:02:29] <clytle3742> those aught to work Haas is using electric stove elements.
[03:02:45] <Danimal-office> little overkill, but i get 100% braking torque out of them and they dont even get warm
[03:02:47] <clytle3742> my test machine is too small to need the,
[03:02:48] <clytle3742> them
[03:03:00] <Danimal-office> yea, i've heard about the stove elements lol
[03:03:40] <clytle3742> I loled when I saw them the first time
[03:03:44] <Danimal-office> ha
[03:03:49] <Danimal-office> that's haas for you
[03:04:19] <steve10778> never thought of that, but thats a good idea for my lathe, honey, we have no front left burner anymore, bwahahaha
[03:04:25] <Danimal-office> easy to find replacements at least!
[03:04:29] <clytle3742> I looked up and "what the" came out involuntarily
[03:04:40] <Danimal-office> lol
[03:04:59] <clytle3742> bought any encoder cable recently?
[03:05:30] <clytle3742> "what the" came out involuntarily
[03:05:33] <clytle3742> again
[03:05:59] <Danimal-office> expensive:
[03:06:00] <Danimal-office> ?
[03:06:43] <Danimal-office> how about using sheilded twisted pair cat5,6,etc cable?
[03:06:44] <clytle3742> 100 foot roll was $400, I'm using network wire for the test.
[03:06:55] <Danimal-office> i use that for my steppers
[03:06:56] <clytle3742> I'm only going 2-3 feet
[03:07:35] <Danimal-office> i would assume if it works fine to go from my mesa card to my stepper drivers (probably 8 feet), then it should be fine
[03:08:15] <Danimal-office> just get sheilded network cable
[03:08:18] <clytle3742> The progress on EMC has been impressive since I last looked in 03. Can't wait to get started
[03:08:30] <clytle3742> I did
[03:08:38] <Danimal-office> yea, i love my emc machines
[03:08:54] <Danimal-office> best thing ever
[03:09:22] <Danimal-office> i would not kick emc out of bed for eating cookies
[03:09:29] <Danimal-office> or even crackers for that matter
[03:10:25] <clytle3742> It is real nice, I can't wait to see how well it works.
[03:10:41] <clytle3742> I'm going to need a bigger chunk of iron soon
[03:11:27] <Danimal-office> what are you running with it?
[03:12:01] <clytle3742> X3 yaskawa amps and servos
[03:12:28] <clytle3742> I know servos are overkill, but it makes for a more conclusive test
[03:12:47] <clytle3742> X3=mini mill
[03:14:02] <Danimal-office> nice
[03:14:07] <Danimal-office> yea i've seen them
[03:14:28] <Danimal-office> i have servos on my hardinge lathe, it works great
[03:15:05] <Danimal-office> the scale is 204800 counts per inch, and no issues keeping up whatsoever with emc
[03:15:07] <clytle3742> What I/O are you using? Just ordered Mesa 5i20 and a 7i48 today.
[03:15:16] <clytle3742> NICE
[03:15:24] <steve10778> good night gentlemen, thanks to all for the help.
[03:15:26] <clytle3742> What kind of IPM?
[03:15:44] <Danimal-office> i'm using a 5i20 and a few daughter boards, the one for the servos is a 7i33
[03:15:58] <Danimal-office> 200ipm (limited by the servos/amps)
[03:16:11] <clytle3742> good enough
[03:16:14] <Danimal-office> it's an old machine, from 1978
[03:16:45] <Danimal-office> cream puff though
[03:17:08] <clytle3742> I got the 7i48 since it has 6 servo channels. So I can do 4th axis and rigid tapping.
[03:17:40] <clytle3742> But, this is really a test for a larger one. Maybe do some retrofits.
[03:19:30] <clytle3742> I hope the developers get the software working on the card. I was told on the forum that they hoped to test it this week.
[03:20:36] <Danimal-office> yea, i didnt get the 7i48 since it wasnt working with emc yet
[03:21:32] <Danimal-office> wells i gotta eat dinner, adios!
[03:21:40] <Danimal-office> good luck with your build
[03:22:29] <clytle3742> thanks
[03:38:44] <clytle3742> I can't get the EMC source from get to load into the IDE Anjuta
[03:38:52] <clytle3742> from git
[04:22:49] <WesBaker> Hey guys. Is anybody on who can give me some direction on using a brake motor on my z axis. I'm new to emc but have all my io wired up to the Mesa daughter board and am ready to start testing. I'm using the sample servo file in the 5i20 directory as my starting configuration.
[04:23:02] <WesBaker> everyting is going well and I'm very pleased with EMC.
[04:23:27] <WesBaker> I would like a little direction on what signal to use to direct to the pins to release the brake for z moves though.
[04:24:34] <WesBaker> ?
[04:24:40] <WesBaker> Anybody out there tonight?
[04:24:43] <WesBaker> ?
[04:30:04] <clytle3742> Are you planning to use the brake for anything other than servo off condition?
[04:32:43] <wesleybaker> I got kicked off.
[04:32:43] <wesleybaker> To answer the question (if you are still there), I just want to set the brake when the Z axis is stopped and release it when it is moving.
[04:34:02] <wesleybaker> I don't think I should just release the brake any time I enable the motor. I suppose that might work though.
[04:34:18] <SWPadnos> that's not as easy as you'd think
[04:34:32] <wesleybaker> Educate me.
[04:34:40] <SWPadnos> the brake will take some time to engage or disengage
[04:35:05] <SWPadnos> which means that you want to release it slightly before an Z motion starts
[04:35:07] <SWPadnos> any
[04:35:40] <clytle3742> I've only seen it done that way once, and it was with an Mcode
[04:35:44] <SWPadnos> there are no HAL signals that tell you that Z motion will start in a little while
[04:36:04] <wesleybaker> Does EMC have functionality to handle the brake for me?
[04:36:26] <SWPadnos> sure, you can use synchronous I/O to do it manually, but that means that you have to have M61 or something before and after every Z move
[04:36:41] <SWPadnos> not on a coordinated motion axis
[04:36:57] <SWPadnos> unless you just want the brake released whenever the servo/stepper is enabled
[04:37:40] <Eric_K> why does enco's web site always puke when I'm logged in
[04:37:42] <wesleybaker> If the servo loop is alive then do I just release the brake any time the motor is enable and let the control loop hold it. Just use the brake to keep position with the motors disabled?
[04:37:56] <SWPadnos> yes, that would make sense
[04:38:11] <SWPadnos> if the servo can't hold Z up, it can't lift it either
[04:39:00] <wesleybaker> OK, that's cool with me. I just assumed that since the brake was there, it would make sense to have it engaged while still, but I'm not paying the PID loop by the hour so it might as well be working.
[04:39:09] <SWPadnos> you might want some ladder logic or a timer that gets triggered by the enable line going low, which would immediately engage the brake and wait a short time before disabling the servo
[04:39:39] <SWPadnos> the brake is likely a safety feature so the head/spindle/whatever doesn't fall if the machine loses power
[04:40:09] <wesleybaker> Yes, I see what you are saying.
[04:40:13] <SWPadnos> as opposed to a position maintenance device
[04:41:23] <wesleybaker> At my level of experience, I will just take the emcmot.2.enable and route that out to a gpio that is wired to the brake.
[04:42:15] <SWPadnos> so this is servos and encoders?
[04:43:00] <clytle3742> note that the brakes are holding brakes and not stopping brakes.
[04:43:52] <SWPadnos> ok, night all
[04:44:19] <WesBaker> i got booted off again, but i'm back
[04:44:27] <WesBaker> WesBaker is wesleybaker
[04:44:38] <WesBaker> Yes, the machine has servos and encoders.
[04:44:45] <WesBaker> It is my second machine.
[04:45:13] <WesBaker> The first machine is controlled with a windows box and Mach3. It's a parallel port step and direction to Gecko drives
[04:45:41] <WesBaker> the encoder feedback goes to the drives. Everything is just open loop as far as the controller is concerned.
[04:46:13] <WesBaker> There's enough friction on that one in the Z axis and the ratio is so steep that it just doesn't need a brake on the Z axis to prevent it from falling.
[04:47:40] <WesBaker> SWPadnos: are you still there? My connection got broken.
[04:50:21] <WesBaker> The only other issue I haven't resolved is how to handle my home and "overtravel" switches.
[04:50:45] <WesBaker> I have a single switch on each axis that serves as the end-of-travel switch.
[04:50:56] <WesBaker> The encoders all have index pulses
[04:51:28] <WesBaker> I assume I will have it run to the limit switch, and then back off until it sees the index pulse and call that home.
[04:51:52] <WesBaker> I think there are clear examples on how to configure that in the documentation.
[04:53:29] <WesBaker> SWPadnos: I guess it kicked you off to when I got kicked off. I'll try another evening.
[04:53:31] <WesBaker> Wes
[05:04:11] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[05:15:28] <ds3> if a pin is configured as a digital output, is it high or low by default?
[05:15:46] <ds3> getp seems to always return false
[05:25:41] <aa-danimal-shop> invert it?
[05:38:25] <tomp> hal user manual "If it is not specified, then the default is 0 or FALSE, depending on the type of the item"
[05:38:35] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[05:40:24] <aa-danimal-shop> how goes it tom3p
[05:41:07] <aa-danimal-shop> how goes it tom3p
[05:41:09] <tom3p> fuzzy, doing a lot of assembly coding in goofy pics
[05:41:23] <tom3p> and you?
[05:41:34] <aa-danimal-shop> oh you saw the first one? forgot to identify my nick
[05:41:37] <ds3> thanks, I probe it and figured it out... not sure why getp won't give me results
[05:41:49] <aa-danimal-shop> same, trying to clean the shop
[05:42:05] <ds3> indirectly related question... are there any cheap off the shelf parallel port breakouts before I build one?
[05:42:57] <aa-danimal-shop> tons, i think
[05:43:09] <ds3> "cheap"?
[05:43:34] <aa-danimal-shop> i guess that's open to interpretation
[05:43:42] <aa-danimal-shop> what do you consider cheap?
[05:44:34] <ds3> < $5
[05:44:38] <ds3> USD
[05:44:42] <aa-danimal-shop> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=247&osCsid=369889607e035cb33d64d60bd89b94b8
[05:44:52] <aa-danimal-shop> wow, you are a cheap bastard, arent you lol
[05:45:03] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[05:45:04] <ds3> I have the DB-25's sitting around already
[05:45:57] <Jymmmmmm> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=131&osCsid=369889607e035cb33d64d60bd89b94b8
[05:45:59] <Jymmmmmm> $9
[05:46:08] <tom3p> wah < 5$?? how d you get the db25? http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brk25_parallel.php
[05:46:13] <Jymmmmmm> ya cheap bastard!
[05:46:33] <aa-danimal-shop> showoff!
[05:46:52] <ds3> hmmm maybe I want something else
[05:47:14] <ds3> the picture do not match what I want - I need to tap wires off the parallel port cable whilepassing everything
[05:47:43] <tom3p> the winford will let you TEE
[05:47:52] <aa-danimal-shop> picky and cheap!
[05:48:02] <ds3> I'll build it
[05:48:34] <tom3p> so will the 8.29 one, a tee is just a 3 way connection
[05:48:52] <tom3p> so put 2 wires into the screw terminal
[05:49:12] <ds3> I don't see the second DB-25... are you saying I need 2 of them or?
[05:49:52] <tom3p> do you want a dbl ended cable , with taps in the middle? if so, its DIY time
[05:50:08] <Jymmmmmm> Is this what you want? http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Jumper-DB25-Male-Female/dp/B000A8QJ02
[05:50:55] <ds3> Jymmmm: YES!!!!!!!!!!
[05:50:59] <tom3p> haha i still have some of those, with the goofy jumper wires
[05:51:35] <Jymmmmmm> ds3: You STILL have to jump the wires
[05:51:44] <ds3> Jymmmm: better then 2 loose DB25's
[05:51:58] <Jymmmmmm> ds3: Here you cheap ass bastard... $5 http://www.trianglecables.com/db25jumper.html
[05:52:05] <ds3> bare open connections might be okay on the bench but not in a shop
[05:52:36] <aa-danimal-shop> says you
[05:53:07] <ds3> that'd do it
[05:53:22] <aa-danimal-shop> bird nests of wire keep the metal chips off my bench
[05:54:07] <ds3> it isn't the wires, it is the bare connectors on the DB25 connector
[05:54:47] <aa-danimal-shop> those catch the chips the best
[05:54:51] <tom3p> hmm, lemme try... I need a CNC Mill for cutting P7 but < $37.50 :)
[05:55:00] <aa-danimal-shop> it's like a rake
[05:55:11] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p: haha
[05:55:25] <tom3p> well it worked for ds3
[05:55:55] <aa-danimal-shop> i need a wire EDM, but <$17.35
[05:56:37] <tom3p> i know of one in a field in northern illinois ( shipping and repair might break the budget tho )
[05:56:39] <Jymmmmmm> Only one cheap bastard per month
[05:56:44] <tom3p> heh
[05:56:54] <tom3p> (marks calendar)
[05:57:04] <aa-danimal-shop> i already claim March
[05:57:22] <Jymmmmmm> By month, I mean decade
[05:57:33] <aa-danimal-shop> March 2020
[05:58:18] <Jymmmmmm> and by decade, I mean fuck of you cheap bunch of bastards!
[05:58:38] <Jymmmmmm> Unless you fix my machine
[05:58:55] <ds3> $5 is a very reasonable price for that
[05:58:56] <aa-danimal-shop> speaking of cheap bastards, i scored 3 metal racks from the neighbor's front yard. They had a free sign on them. A bit loose, but a screwdriver fixed that, now i got a place and purpose for all of them :)
[05:59:09] <Jymmmmmm> For details, read all the log files going back 6 years
[05:59:13] <ds3> involume, the COGs on that is probally <$2
[06:00:27] <aa-danimal-shop> ds3: we're just busting balls. We're all cheap, or we wouldnt be building our own CNC's
[06:00:44] <aa-danimal-shop> We'd buy working ones
[06:00:54] <ds3> aa-danimal-shop: I know... just pointing out that is not cheap in that case
[06:01:25] <ds3> it is the same reason I get irked when walmart sells the same import PoS that HF sells but at 2-3x the price
[06:01:44] <ds3> if I were cheap, I'd have insisted at cost :D
[06:01:51] <aa-danimal-shop> Same reason why i dont go to either of them lol
[06:01:56] <tom3p> those things were to only way to debug serial communications 'back in the days'
[06:02:37] <aa-danimal-shop> dammit i think my web host is down again, i cant get to my email
[06:03:10] <aa-danimal-shop> not smart on their part since my subscription is up for renewal in March
[06:03:30] <aa-danimal-shop> last time it was down for over a day
[06:04:02] <aa-danimal-shop> anyone know of good reasonibly priced web hosting?
[06:08:22] <Jymmmmmm> aa-danimal-shop: bluehost.com
[06:08:40] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmmmmm: thanks
[06:08:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm using ipower right now
[06:13:31] <ds3> tom3p: I still have a DB9 version
[06:24:17] <MrSunshine> a flycutter i should be able to make myself using a MIG some high carbon steel and a round stock right? :)
[06:25:06] <MrSunshine> i need someting to surface with .... sigh
[06:25:33] <MrSunshine> but maybe a real carbide tip would be preferable but :P
[06:54:42] <anonimas1> if you dont have a rigid machine hss is better then carbide
[06:58:20] <Jymmmmmm> anonimas1: why is that?
[06:58:43] <anonimas1> because carbide is blunt compared to hss
[06:58:53] <Jymmmmmm> Jymmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmm
[06:59:14] <Jymmmmmmm> anonimas1: Ok, ut what does that have todo with the rigitidy of the machine?
[07:00:04] <tom3p> we used to say 'carbide doesnt like any chatter', the carbide wants a solid cut, and interrupted cut will break/dull carbide fast
[07:00:19] <Jymmmmmmm> ah
[07:00:52] <anonimas1> well, think of it as cutting steak with a unsharp knife..
[07:01:17] <Jymmmmmmm> that analogy doens't work for me =)
[07:01:32] <tom3p> vegetarian ? ;)
[07:01:38] <Jymmmmmmm> HELL NO
[07:01:47] <Jymmmmmmm> CARNIVOR!
[07:02:33] <tom3p> ' if the great juju hadn't meant us to eat people, he wouldnt have made us out of meat' ( flanders & shwann)
[07:03:19] <anonimas1> Jymmmmmmm: well, if you have a blunt edge it requires a deeper cut for chips to start forming
[07:05:04] <anonimas1> and the cutting forces go way up and if your machine isnt rigid enough your insert wont live long
[07:05:55] <tom3p> http://tinyurl.com/ykebj5v
[07:06:49] <anonimas1> Jymmmmmmm: does that make sense?
[07:08:01] <MrSunshine> anonimas1, humm ok
[07:08:17] <MrSunshine> is there hss tips for holders? :)
[07:08:25] <anonimas1> yes
[07:08:38] <anonimas1> I think jula sells that
[07:09:01] <tom3p> but why isnt carbide sharp as carbide, i seem to remember cutting myself reaching to the drawer for carbide cutter
[07:09:11] <tom3p> sharp as hss
[07:10:04] <MrSunshine> yeah hss exists on jula it seems =)
[07:10:11] <MrSunshine> but jula is a 3 hour trip away :/
[07:10:23] <anonimas1> idk, tough endmills are sharper then the inserts probably because the insert have a huge radius or something
[07:10:30] <anonimas1> bbl
[07:11:36] <MrSunshine> well if im going to make a flycutter i dont want a 0.000001 thickness of the tip of it :P
[07:11:46] <MrSunshine> i want bit of a rounded one i guess
[07:13:05] <MrSunshine> GAAAH i neeeed a flycutter!
[07:13:07] <MrSunshine> dammit
[07:13:08] <MrSunshine> :)
[07:14:06] <tom3p> my fly cutters is just a holder for a lathe bit, and ground pretty sharp
[07:14:34] <MrSunshine> tom3p, aye thats what i want realy, but moneys is a problem :/
[07:16:47] <tom3p> got a lathe bit?, then you just need to weld it up offset on a shank
[07:17:02] <tom3p> or make something like http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1231
[07:17:14] <MrSunshine> tom3p, no i dont have that either :/
[07:18:00] <tom3p> http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardprojects/FreeHomeWorkshopPlans/DIYFlyCutter.pdf
[07:19:13] <tom3p> thats a reprint from model engineer
[07:20:46] <tom3p> they round the tool tip but not in the plane that i thought
[07:34:10] <MrSunshine> ye, doesnt have to be to advanced i guess =)
[07:34:24] <MrSunshine> just so i can face mill my casted aluminium faster =)
[07:43:08] <MrSunshine> maybe should make some wootz steel to have as the cutter :P
[07:43:30] <MrSunshine> last time i did it i could take out a big hunk out of a welding bench with the knife i did and it did not dull in any way =)
[10:21:00] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:28:37] <i_tarzan> m
[11:50:01] <jthornton> morning
[11:50:21] <micges_work1> hi
[12:03:23] <alex_joni> hi
[12:32:22] <jthornton> is there anything special you need for a touch screen to use with EMC?
[12:40:04] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,1935/lang,english/
[12:50:41] <alex_joni> jthornton: not really
[12:50:58] <alex_joni> but there are various touch screens
[12:51:10] <alex_joni> some register as a simple mouse (via usb or ps2)
[12:51:17] <alex_joni> others require a special driver
[12:51:41] <jthornton> the guy on the forum mentioned touch screen kits on flea bay
[12:52:33] <alex_joni> well, if he gets a model number, and googles for linux support he can surely find one that works
[12:52:34] <cradek> any touch screen that works with ubuntu will work with emc. that's the question to ask, and usually the internet knows the answer.
[12:52:59] <alex_joni> the internet has the smarts
[12:53:11] <jthornton> cradek: thanks
[12:54:01] <archivist> tell the internet to set up my touch screen to work
[12:54:29] <cradek> tell the internet to go to work for me today
[12:54:52] <archivist> milling machine walked off the garden onto the drive on its way to the garage today
[12:55:16] <cradek> jthornton: "kits on ebay" isn't enough information for someone to answer his question - I saw that too
[12:55:50] <jthornton> I asked him for a link :)
[12:56:06] <cradek> heh, good job
[12:56:23] <cradek> bbl
[13:17:15] <robin_sz> archivist, so ..
[13:17:39] <robin_sz> the basic problem was we had to move them because of the ceiling in the unit they are in
[13:17:47] <alex_joni> howdy robin_sz
[13:17:53] <robin_sz> yo alex!
[13:17:57] <alex_joni> ltns
[13:18:09] <robin_sz> still in the robotoics game?
[13:18:37] <robin_sz> archivist, on Z up, it pushed the ceiling upwards :)
[13:18:42] <archivist> hehe
[13:18:54] <robin_sz> got a bigger/smellier unit fo rthem
[13:18:57] <archivist> move the ceiling out the way
[13:21:27] <alex_joni> robin_sz: http://juve.ro/~juve/robcon/r76-zoom.PNG
[13:21:33] <alex_joni> robin_sz: http://juve.ro/~juve/robcon/r76-take1.PNG
[13:34:10] <robin_sz> archivist, the machines do move the ceiling out of the way :)
[13:34:57] <archivist> one in here made a hole in his ceiling
[13:35:06] <robin_sz> alex_joni, yeah, ok, you are still in the robotics game :)
[13:35:41] <alex_joni> emc2 is way more advanced in the robotics game though ;)
[14:34:25] <A3-JT-Work> A3-JT-Work is now known as JT-Work
[14:47:35] <JT-Work> archivist: how do you grind a single point tool to cut gear teeth on an aluminum rack gear?
[14:53:05] <i_tarzan> too much vibration
[14:53:19] <i_tarzan> it should be full cutter
[14:53:38] <JT-Work> I need to cut 3 or 4 teeth
[14:54:34] <JT-Work> hmm gear cutters on MSC are only $30 or so...
[14:54:57] <JT-Work> now to figure out what pitch I have...
[14:57:45] <JT-Work> hmmm its .250" from tooth to tooth
[14:59:25] <i_tarzan> planner needed to get it
[14:59:42] <i_tarzan> mill better
[15:03:33] <cradek> I'd gamble on these before I'd buy one of those kits http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170446522241
[15:03:53] <cradek> I doubt the kits can be easily made to work. for one thing there's a serious mounting problem to figure out.
[15:04:15] <JT-Work> for $25 not much of a gamble
[15:04:48] <cradek> that's not the final price (if it was, I'd probably buy them for the heck of it)
[15:05:17] <JT-Work> 0 bids
[15:06:27] <JT-Work> do you use 12v from the pc power supply to power them up?
[15:06:41] <cradek> you could try that
[15:06:49] <cradek> I don't have any like that - I don't know anything about them
[15:07:02] <JT-Work> I know less :)
[15:07:57] <cradek> there's a bunch of microtouch CRTs for around $20 each (guaranteed working, but no photo of them showing a picture)
[15:08:03] <cradek> I have a microtouch crt on the lathe and it's fine
[15:08:27] <cradek> if it's going to sit on a table instead of being mounted on a panel, crt is much better
[15:08:38] <cradek> for panel mount, a light lcd is better of course
[15:09:59] <JT-Work> my thought for mine is to make a arm to mount it on that swivels
[15:11:13] <cradek> jr's console on an arm is quite effective. it pivots at the top, but otherwise is solid: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[15:12:14] <JT-Work> That does look sturdy
[15:13:49] <i_tarzan> why not use a table and a monitor besides?
[15:14:16] <JT-Work> My MPG and some controls are on the panel just below the spindle to the left of this picture http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/computer05.jpg
[15:14:48] <JT-Work> i_tarzan: you have not seen my garage LOL if it is flat it has something piled on it
[15:15:14] <JT-Work> I'm down to one car and one motorcycle in a 3 car garage LOL
[15:15:46] <cradek> i_tarzan: the table moves, so a table cannot be very close
[15:16:11] <cradek> er, mill's table moves
[15:16:11] <JT-Work> I'm thinking of a mount on the left of the post of the big opening where the old crt was
[15:17:25] <JT-Work> the open panel on the bottom is loaded up with buttons and a power meter
[15:17:39] <JT-Work> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/Screen03.jpg
[15:22:05] <JT-Work> I need to find some more memory for the mobo I'm using at the moment the mouse freezes up a lot... I assume it is lack of memory
[15:22:43] <Jymmmmmmm> or lack of cpu or both
[15:23:02] <JT-Work> p3 1000
[15:24:00] <Jymmmmmmm> ram?
[15:24:54] <Jymmmmmmm> JT-Work: ram?
[15:24:54] <JT-Work> I don't know exactly but I think it is 384k it is at home in the hardinge
[15:25:01] <Jymmmmmmm> OUCH!
[15:25:13] <cradek> heh 384M
[15:25:20] <JT-Work> yea m
[15:25:48] <Jymmmmmmm> and shared video ram of 128M huh? lol
[15:25:56] <cradek> PC133 is getting more expensive...
[15:26:17] <Jymmmmmmm> I got boxes of the stuff!!!
[15:26:17] <JT-Work> I might have some more laying about I have to look this evening
[15:26:28] <Jymmmmmmm> plural
[15:26:59] <Jymmmmmmm> * Jymmmmmmm has 30p simms for sale too!
[15:27:02] <JT-Work> as soon as I get the cpu from Dan I'll swap mobos but in the mean time I was trying to make some progress
[15:29:56] <cradek> I've got piles too, but 512s are rare in my piles, and those boards usually only have about 2 sockets
[15:34:53] <JT-Work> yea, only two slots
[16:10:45] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma: i think i have some lol
[16:10:59] <Danimal-office> but you'd get the processors first
[16:13:16] <JT-Work> Danimal-office: I'll look around this evening
[16:14:29] <Danimal-office> how much wiring do you have left in that guy?
[16:16:21] <JT-Work> the mesa cards for the most part
[16:17:02] <Danimal-office> do you already have the wiring to the mesa card's area?
[16:24:15] <tom3p> the cards seem to be leaning in their slots, i know there's no rear support like in a closed box, but some hold-down/support may help for general flakiness
[16:27:34] <JT-Work> yes the wires were all ready there
[16:27:53] <JT-Work> I have a support that mimics the case but it is not in the picture
[16:44:45] <i_tarzan> are mesa the better/cheaper cards?
[16:45:41] <JT-Work> than?
[16:47:18] <i_tarzan> none to be compared?
[16:47:39] <Danimal-office> they are most certainly better than nothing
[16:48:25] <JT-Work> I did use a 1.5 volt battery on my lathe to drive it around but not very precise I'd think
[16:48:33] <Danimal-office> i have nothing to compare them to, but i have mesa cards in both my machines and so far so good
[16:48:51] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma:nice!
[16:49:22] <JT-Work> actually I used a lab power supply with variable voltage output :)
[16:50:04] <Danimal-office> are yours 10v+-?
[16:50:15] <JT-Work> yes
[16:50:39] <Danimal-office> nice
[16:50:54] <Danimal-office> i wish i had servos on my mill :(
[16:50:59] <tom3p> i_tarzan: over the years theres been many cards for emc, ( i have a few ) but interest & support have waned, so the choice of MESA is also concerned with support, and they give us great support. also their company has many more clients than emc/emc2
[16:51:00] <JT-Work> with encoders on all things the turn
[16:51:53] <Danimal-office> my mill has been pretty reliable lately though
[16:51:59] <Danimal-office> even with the steppers
[16:52:09] <Danimal-office> havent had a missed step in a while
[16:52:23] <Danimal-office> at least not enough to notice
[16:52:56] <i_tarzan> tom3p, interesting...
[16:53:06] <Danimal-office> i just want it to be faster
[16:53:11] <JT-Work> funny my manual lathe has been working better lately
[16:53:13] <tom3p> can you return to a given location and tram a hole with 0 tir?
[16:53:46] <Danimal-office> JT-Work: it realized it better stop slacking since there's a new girl on the block
[16:53:53] <Danimal-office> a little competiton for her
[16:54:16] <Danimal-office> she thinks you might ditch her for the new model
[16:54:20] <JT-Work> yep, the brake started working right after the Hardinge showed up LOL
[16:54:28] <Eric_K> I need to do that
[16:54:29] <Danimal-office> ha
[16:54:52] <Eric_K> although I think my lathe would just sit in the corner and sulk
[16:55:10] <Danimal-office> Eric_K: nobody likes a soft lathe
[16:55:43] <Eric_K> OT: the gym at the high school I graduated from collapsed
[16:55:59] <Danimal-office> was there anyone in it?
[16:56:17] <Eric_K> don't think so
[16:56:26] <Danimal-office> lucky
[16:56:34] <Danimal-office> that'd be sucky
[16:57:29] <Danimal-office> your sitting there minding your own business playing a friendly game of dodgeball, and next thing you know, you're dodging a building.
[16:57:46] <Danimal-office> i guess if you can dodge a building, you can dodge a ball!
[16:58:45] <tom3p> http://www.machiken.co.jp/English/images/taiwan-s.jpg we saw buildings on thier sides, fallen over but not broken, really scary
[16:58:51] <Eric_K> that's all I remember playing in there
[16:58:55] <Eric_K> http://www.roanoke.com/multimedia/wb/xp-gymcollapse
[17:03:24] <Danimal-office> wow
[17:03:32] <Danimal-office> guess it did collapse
[17:03:55] <Eric_K> girls basketball team was in there when it started, but it took 2 hours
[17:04:05] <Danimal-office> i wonder if the wood floor is still intact
[17:04:22] <Danimal-office> that's probably the most expensive part of the gym
[17:04:25] <Eric_K> it wasn't wood when they built it
[17:04:31] <Danimal-office> oh
[17:04:41] <Eric_K> some rubber compound
[17:04:46] <Danimal-office> weird
[17:04:51] <Danimal-office> how old is it?
[17:04:52] <tom3p> heh court floors & old bowling alleys make nice benches
[17:04:57] <Eric_K> 36 years
[17:05:04] <Danimal-office> not that old at all
[17:05:09] <tom3p> snow load ?
[17:05:17] <Danimal-office> shit, only 8 years older than me
[17:05:37] <Danimal-office> tom3p: thats what i thought, but it didnt look like much
[17:05:46] <Eric_K> they said it shouldn't have been snow load, but with redneck engineering, anything is possible
[17:06:40] <Danimal-office> i bet someone is getting sued out of that
[17:08:06] <Eric_K> they already sued the builder, engineers for the roof design
[17:08:11] <Eric_K> it leaked for years
[17:08:38] <Eric_K> glad to see they changed the mascots, used to be Indians
[17:11:02] <Eric_K> they had put in a wood floor, found some recent photos
[17:13:47] <tom3p> i stumbled on this... http://www.singularity.be/search/label/PIC the guy is taking the hektor idea ( like alex joni's 2 axis device ) and is using ghostscript to drive it (versus gcode in emc, versus actionscript in hektor) hektor At http://www.hektor.ch/
[17:14:22] <Eric_K> tom3p: needs renderings
[17:15:10] <tom3p> render? its a line plotter
[17:15:38] <tom3p> http://www.hektor.ch/Videos/Landscape.mov/
[17:15:42] <Eric_K> I mean your first link
[17:15:52] <Eric_K> that was before I looked at your second link
[17:18:13] <bill2or3> I made a hektorish thing, I start with hpgl files.
[17:18:37] <bill2or3> http://www.xmission.com/~bill/plot2.avi
[17:21:07] <Eric_K> my cousin's daughter is a finalist on American Idol
[17:21:19] <EbiDK> * EbiDK tests if /ame sticks to the network it's used on or is sent to all current network... Sorry for the spam if it's the latter.
[17:24:27] <archivist> JT-Work, rack is nice and easy as its a straight sided at the angle to suit your gears (14.5 or 20 degrees)
[17:26:27] <JT-Work> how do I tell if I have 14.5 or 20 degrees?
[17:27:58] <archivist> measure
[17:30:54] <archivist> tolerance for some work is "loose" so hand gringing with a dremel can be goos enough
[17:31:03] <archivist> good
[17:31:17] <JT-Work> this is for a sausage stuffer with a hand crank
[17:31:50] <JT-Work> what do I measure?
[17:32:11] <archivist> if repairing old, then make the form to match the old
[17:33:29] <JT-Work> ok, I need to add a couple more teeth
[17:33:30] <archivist> I cant imaging an old stuffer will have an accurate form
[17:34:16] <archivist> I would hand grind the cutter to the old rack
[17:34:38] <archivist> then no measurement required
[17:34:49] <archivist> except pitch
[17:34:50] <tom3p> looking for rack gear profiles lead to this (fun) http://kmoddl.library.cornell.edu/tour/ kinematics models
[17:35:55] <JT-Work> pitch is .250"
[17:36:43] <tom3p> bill2or3: cool, it took a while to load but i like that idea. really big for skyscraper window washing, smaller for city advertisement on building sides
[17:36:54] <tom3p> haha is it dr. bob?
[17:37:05] <bill2or3> yeah, Mr Dobbs.
[17:37:26] <bill2or3> it's a total hack, all the code is running on the pc, in perl.
[17:38:14] <tom3p> fun, post it all on the wiki, incentive to drive without gcode
[17:41:32] <tom3p> 'running lite without overbyte' was that BYTE or what magazine he wrote... duh! Dobbs he's still around , good http://www.drdobbs.com/subscribe/
[17:58:38] <Eric_K> dr Dobbs is a sad shell of what it once was
[17:58:45] <Eric_K> worse than pathetic
[17:58:54] <tom3p> sigh, sorry to hear that
[17:59:09] <Eric_K> it wasn't even worth it to me to apply for a free subscription
[17:59:36] <tom3p> i didnt mean to post the subscribe page, it was just the link that google hit, sorry
[18:00:22] <Eric_K> independent of that, I used to pay for it
[18:00:58] <Eric_K> I have back issues to the '80s, too lazy to recycle
[18:03:05] <Eric_K> that kmoddl site is neat
[18:08:51] <archivist> * archivist remembers Verity Stobb
[18:16:38] <Eric_K> they had some good columnists over the years
[18:23:32] <tom3p> if you use gedit, splitview is handy, http://eldapo.lembobrothers.com/2008/07/16/gedit-plugins-split-screen/ but, they didnt tell you the key is EDIT | Preferences| Plugins then enable the !^%!# thing
[18:24:28] <i_tarzan> no gedit plugins here
[18:36:02] <tom3p> i_tarzan: you create the dir (~/.gnome2/gedit/plugins), copy the untargz'd files into it, set then enable as above, choose it from VIEW | TOGGLE SPLIT VIEW
[18:46:33] <tom3p> oh well, dont use the 'vertical splitview" ( 2 windows tiled verticly )... blows up entering lower pane, but 'horz splitview' seems to work
[19:34:58] <clytle374> I'm trying to compile the git code. I get a bunch of errors.
[19:36:06] <clytle374> error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before ‘)’ token
[19:36:17] <clytle374> error: ‘then’ does not name a type
[19:36:25] <cradek> clytle374: maybe put the full output on http://pastebin.ca
[19:37:11] <JanVanGilsen> skunkworks: http://imagebin.org/85241
[19:37:31] <JanVanGilsen> http://imagebin.org/85242
[19:37:44] <JanVanGilsen> http://imagebin.org/85243
[19:38:27] <bill2or3> ISA slots?
[19:42:03] <skunkworks_> very clean! Nice job. (not isa slots - I think you are seeing the mesa boards.
[19:43:57] <JanVanGilsen> I also tested the kinematics
[19:45:45] <JanVanGilsen> The kinematics of the simulated puma560 is missing an offset
[19:47:26] <JanVanGilsen> the puma550 (the 5 axis model) have a difference in the elbow-wrist link
[19:47:36] <JanVanGilsen> *has
[19:47:40] <clytle374> http://pastebin.ca/1800421
[19:49:27] <clytle374> opps, it truncated here is the output of make. The above is config
[19:50:38] <JanVanGilsen> Actually the Denavit-Hartenberg parameters of http://juve.ro/blog/puma are for the 550 model, not for the 560 model
[19:55:49] <micges> clytle374: I don't see any error, please pastebin.ca again
[19:57:04] <clytle374> still trying to get the output of make posted. configure works okay. here the output from make http://pastebin.ca/1800430
[19:58:08] <JanVanGilsen> Well, I'm off. I might contact alex on the kinematics difference next week, if I know more ...
[19:59:22] <jepler> clytle374: the contents of config.h are junk. It looks like maybe that file is just a copy of configure.in, which is totally wrong.
[19:59:48] <cradek> checking for ANSI C header files... no
[20:00:15] <clytle374> I forgot I had done that. config.h.in was missing.
[20:01:00] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Building_emc2_realtime
[20:01:46] <jepler> config.h.in is a file generated by autogen.sh. If you did something else (like cp configure.in config.h.in or cp configure.in config.h) then that would lead to this problem.
[20:02:46] <clytle374> sorry, I used autoconf
[20:04:53] <clytle374> @jepler that is what it did. For some reason it seemed like I had fixed something in the past that way.
[20:05:57] <jepler> get back to a clean source tree, then start with ./autogen.sh
[20:06:30] <jepler> cradek: incidentally, my system says 'checking for ANSI C header files... no' so that's probably not connected to the problem at hand
[20:06:42] <clytle374> yep, seems to be working
[20:08:38] <clytle374> jepler: How confident are you on the patch for the 7I48? I heard it was going to be tested, I took a chance and ordered the card.
[20:08:52] <clytle374> no pressure
[20:10:41] <jepler> clytle374: That's the daughtercard with "muxed quadrature"? The work I did, if you can call it that, was to enable the code Peter Wallace of mesa already wrote; he usually does good work, and I'm sure he's tested it. But the firmware I generated might be wrong for instance because I made a mistake transcribing the pinout from the pdf to the vhdl (firmware source)
[20:12:52] <clytle374> that's the card. You do the firmware? I downloaded the xilinx ISE 2 days ago and got the wrong one. Satellite bandwidth is taped out for the week:(
[20:13:05] <jepler> for the driver part, I'm again relying on what Peter said that driver code for the non-muxed encoders will work for the muxed encoders
[20:13:41] <clytle374> Makes sense, just add multiplexing.
[20:13:42] <jepler> peter writes 99+% of the firmware but recently I set up a system to build all of the firmwares from the commandline..
[20:15:24] <clytle374> I did some FPGA a half dozen years ago. If I could only get my head around what is what in the hostmot2 firmware
[20:28:38] <clytle374> that worked. now I need lyx for --enable-build-documentation
[20:32:56] <ds3> Hello
[20:33:15] <ds3> parallel ports are picky things!
[20:35:29] <clytle374> hardware is always picky
[20:36:03] <ds3> not as bad as this
[20:37:09] <ds3> getting stumped by the odd behavior of this stepper control
[20:40:39] <andypugh> OOh! Alibre CAM has a built-in EMC postprocessor
[20:41:40] <alex_joni> andypugh: yup, although pretty old
[20:41:59] <alex_joni> based on sherline inch/mm
[20:42:06] <andypugh> Not that I can figure out how to export the G-code
[20:42:19] <ds3> andypugh: how much is alibre cam?
[20:42:45] <andypugh> Err, dunno. I am trying to get finished in the 30 day evaluation window. :-)
[20:43:03] <alex_joni> I got mine bundled with cad
[20:43:15] <andypugh> I will almost certainly be buying Alibre CAD, currently it is $97
[20:43:16] <ds3> alex_joni: how much was the cad/cam package?
[20:43:30] <ds3> AlibreCAD for $97 doesn't come with CAM
[20:44:24] <SWPadnos> there are 3 versions of Alibre CAM, which are $1000, $2000, and $3000 each
[20:44:32] <SWPadnos> according to their store
[20:44:43] <ds3> ack
[20:44:56] <ds3> SheetCAM looks very attractive at sub $200
[20:45:00] <clytle374> + the costs of windows
[20:45:19] <SWPadnos> Alibre may run OK under WINE
[20:45:31] <SWPadnos> (very recent WINE, that is)
[20:45:35] <ds3> heheh
[20:45:41] <ds3> does the latest wine do the 3D acceleration?
[20:45:44] <SWPadnos> Altium almost works
[20:45:47] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:45:54] <ds3> Ohhhh
[20:45:57] <SWPadnos> Altium almost works in 3D mode
[20:46:02] <andypugh> I am running the CAD in VMWare
[20:46:03] <ds3> SWPadnos: so you are a Altium user?
[20:46:07] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:46:11] <alex_joni> ds3: mine was abouy 2k$
[20:46:21] <ds3> SWPadnos: what made you choose that over Eagle?
[20:46:29] <SWPadnos> um, features?
[20:46:36] <ds3> alex_joni: hmm
[20:46:46] <alex_joni> ds3: does fea too
[20:46:53] <SWPadnos> FPGA integration, advanced routing and that kind of thing
[20:46:59] <ds3> SWPadnos: what does it have over Eagle's Pro version in the same ball park price
[20:47:08] <alex_joni> and photorendering
[20:47:16] <ds3> Eagle can do photorendering
[20:47:17] <SWPadnos> oh, I guess it is in the same price range now, isn't it?
[20:47:27] <ds3> yeah... both around $1500
[20:47:52] <ds3> i need to standardize on a ecad those are the two options
[20:48:02] <SWPadnos> well, I can make a project that includes schematic, PCB, FPGA, and embedded microprocessor, and when I make changes in one place, they can be magically propagated through the entire project
[20:48:20] <SWPadnos> ie, the header files for the embedded CPU will be rewritten for me if I change the processor options
[20:48:26] <ds3> the FPGA stuff still requires the vendor supplied 1 year at a time license
[20:48:37] <SWPadnos> pins will be moved in the Schematic and FPGA if I have to swap them in PCB for routing reasons
[20:48:57] <SWPadnos> yes, that's necessary for the synthesis (though it does work with the free versions as well)
[20:49:29] <ds3> SWPadnos: my complaint there is the 1 year at a time free version without any promise that I can reuse my work after 1 year
[20:49:30] <SWPadnos> much better library support (though it's still lacking in some surprising areas)
[20:49:49] <SWPadnos> the free version isn't time limited, that's the pay version
[20:50:04] <ds3> who provides a nontime limited version?
[20:50:15] <SWPadnos> and there's no difference there, since you would need the same licenses for an FPGA project you do in Eagle
[20:50:16] <ds3> everyone wants you to goto their website and apply for a 1 year license
[20:50:33] <SWPadnos> I don't think I've had a Xilinx or Altera free license expire
[20:50:36] <alex_joni> I tried altium lately. didn'y really like it
[20:50:39] <SWPadnos> I have had the paid ones expire though
[20:50:49] <ds3> agreed on that; but I don't think FPGAs are usable unless I can be sure of accessing my work later on
[20:51:14] <SWPadnos> I also happen to be very used to the way Altium works, since it's very similar to Tango PCB and Protel, which I used to use
[20:51:37] <ds3> hmmm
[20:52:04] <SWPadnos> I originally bought it so I could do a complex FPGA based design, but that client decided to scrap the project
[20:52:20] <SWPadnos> (which sucked, because I had also bought a $18000 scope for the project)
[20:52:33] <ds3> heheh... but $18000 scopes are nice things :D
[20:52:37] <SWPadnos> eyah
[20:52:47] <SWPadnos> so is $12000 software (when I bought it anyway :( )
[20:53:09] <ds3> so you are also a Solidworks user too?
[20:53:14] <SWPadnos> nope :)
[20:53:38] <ds3> xilinx won't tell me upfront if their webpack expires or not
[20:53:39] <SWPadnos> that's one area where I don't want to spend the bucks, so I have a program that will hopefully still have a company behind it in a couple of years
[20:53:46] <ds3> but the other folks hide that detail
[20:54:03] <SWPadnos> CadMax - does just about everything SW does (no sheet metal), but it's $300
[20:54:17] <ds3> Alibre comes close with their $99 deals
[20:54:32] <SWPadnos> yep. That didn't exist when I bought CadMax
[20:54:39] <ds3> *nod*
[20:54:56] <SWPadnos> Modest hardware requirements (Pentium, 64Mb RAM)
[20:55:03] <ds3> SWPadnos: want to know the latest twist in my battle to get things working?
[20:55:05] <SWPadnos> from their requirements page :)
[20:55:10] <SWPadnos> err, sure :)
[20:56:05] <ds3> found a breakout board late last night - directly injected 5Vs and nothing works. shorted the direction pin to the pin that was powering things and magically it works in reverse... driving the direction pin directly from 5V doesn't work either
[20:56:12] <ds3> weird eh?
[20:56:38] <SWPadnos> uh. yes
[20:56:45] <clytle374> Under license the xilinx shows forever.
[20:56:56] <ds3> clytle374: webpack?
[20:57:17] <ds3> SWPadnos: think I should try a PCI parallel port?
[20:57:20] <SWPadnos> right - it just won't support new chips, so you'd want to update at some point anyway
[20:57:22] <SWPadnos> no idea
[20:57:25] <clytle374> yes. v11.1 but it seems to not work on the Mesa 5i20 chip
[20:57:39] <SWPadnos> if straight 5V does weird things, I don't know what a parallel port can do
[20:58:00] <ds3> FWIW, I had a DMM on there and I can see the pin powering things dip down to 2Vs at times
[20:58:07] <SWPadnos> oh right, they drop support for "old" chips
[20:58:14] <ds3> maybe the thresholds are really screwed up?
[20:58:19] <SWPadnos> no idea
[20:59:11] <bill2or3> ds3, maybe an opto-isolated breakout board would bring the signal levels up to 5v, and make it work reliably.
[20:59:41] <ds3> bill2or3: I am driving isolators at the moment... the control has some Silabs isolator chips
[20:59:55] <bill2or3> driving them from what?
[21:00:08] <ds3> a search of EMC and PCI parallel ports suggests that is another minefield :(
[21:00:12] <SWPadnos> oh. then you need to be sure you've got the right ground connection when you drive with an external 5V source
[21:00:27] <ds3> bill2or3: parallel port -> SiLabs Isolators -> Allegro (I think) Stepper chips
[21:00:45] <ds3> SWPadnos: it is from the same PC as the parallel port... I'd hope they share grounds
[21:00:46] <SWPadnos> since you need to drive current through the optoisolator - just having a common ground somewhere shouldn't do it
[21:00:54] <ds3> Oh?
[21:01:15] <skunkworks_> if your not using the printer port to drive something like mesa, pico, or pluto hardware - almost any will work.
[21:01:24] <SWPadnos> then again, if it works with other control software and this parallel port, then it should work with EMC
[21:01:39] <SWPadnos> right - the NetMos issue is for EPP modes only
[21:01:52] <ds3> NetMos is the only troublesome one?
[21:02:05] <ds3> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0277551 <-- that looks attractive and is local
[21:02:35] <ds3> n/m
[21:02:35] <skunkworks_> for epp (pico, mesa, pluto printer port devices) For normal dumb i/o - they work just fine.
[21:02:42] <SWPadnos> no idea if others are problematic as well
[21:04:37] <anonimas1> skunkworks_: mhm what about running servos off them?
[21:05:16] <ds3> anything else besides NetMOS to avoid then?
[21:05:31] <SWPadnos> I don't know of any, but that doesn't say much
[21:05:54] <SWPadnos> and as skunkworks said, you only need to avoid NetMOS if you may want to use a pico, pluto, or mesa board
[21:05:56] <ds3> guess I'll try it and see
[21:06:31] <ds3> I really don't want to go wire up a 74LS244 or equiv to buffer things :/
[21:08:26] <anonimas1> does mesa sell cables for the 7i43?
[21:08:52] <anonimas1> or how do you connect them to the pc?
[21:08:53] <SWPadnos> I think so, though you can use old 50-pin SCSI cables too
[21:08:59] <SWPadnos> oh, that cable
[21:09:24] <anonimas1> isnt it a parport > 50 pin one?
[21:09:34] <SWPadnos> 25 pins
[21:09:45] <SWPadnos> the other side (the two I/O connectors) are 50 pin
[21:10:10] <ds3> Hmmm PCI parallel cards don't use 0x378 it seems
[21:10:23] <anonimas1> the one I had did
[21:10:25] <SWPadnos> no, they use A000 or something
[21:10:40] <SWPadnos> unless they're made to be "legacy-compatible"
[21:10:42] <ds3> so it is a gamble
[21:10:45] <SWPadnos> of C800 etc
[21:10:48] <jt-plasma> yea! I found another memory stick and the mobo has three slots so I'm up to 512m
[21:10:49] <SWPadnos> EMC can use any address
[21:11:05] <anonimas1> SWPadnos: so how do I get the mesa connected to my computer?
[21:11:06] <ds3> but I found the postings about needing ACPI and EMC RTAI kernels don't have ACPI enabled
[21:12:41] <anonimas1> making a cable out of a ribbon cable?
[21:13:17] <SWPadnos> you can get IDC connectors or both the pin header side and the DB25 side
[21:13:28] <SWPadnos> and you can get cables too, though I don't see them on the Mesa site
[21:13:59] <Jymmmmmmm> ds3: Why do you need ACPI for?
[21:14:07] <anonimas1> mhm, so I should put that in the inquiry for a order form to them..
[21:14:24] <SWPadnos> probably
[21:14:27] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[21:14:48] <andypugh> ds3: Are you driving the board correctly? My stepper drivers take a 5V supply to one side of the opto-isolated inputs, and then when the P-Port goes low, then current flows, and the driver sees a pulse.
[21:15:04] <ds3> Jymmmmm: some post mentioned that ACPI is needed to enable the parallel port
[21:15:35] <ds3> andypugh: it moves in one direction so I assume I am...
[21:15:53] <ds3> having visited the nice land of ARM... x86 is just plain irritating
[21:16:15] <andypugh> which driver is it?
[21:16:49] <ds3> andypugh: this is a special/custom board with a SiLabs isolator driving what I think are allegro chips
[21:17:13] <ds3> andypugh: the seller has it working in Mach and the config looks equiv to what I am doing
[21:18:01] <andypugh> It might be that your p-port can't source enough current, but it can probably sink enough. I would be looking at pull-up resistors.
[21:18:35] <ds3> andypugh: recommendations as to size? 4.7K?
[21:19:55] <andypugh> Sounds a conservative first step, if your p-port can't sink 1mA then you really have problems.
[21:20:47] <ds3> andypugh: what about just swapping out the parallel port with a PCI one? think most modern ports can do better?
[21:21:06] <andypugh> Sounds like trouble and expense.
[21:21:41] <ds3> andypugh: tacking on 12 resistors is about as much work... a PCI card looks to be <$20 from a local store
[21:21:53] <mozmck_work> ds3: I don't think you need ACPI for parport (could be mistaken though)
[21:21:54] <andypugh> No point buying a P-Port when a Mesa card is only $79 (though that is for a P-port interfaced one, so there might still be problems)
[21:21:59] <ds3> I just want this to work. It should not be that hard!
[21:22:14] <ds3> mozmck_work: 'k
[21:22:43] <ds3> $79+shipping which is probally 5x as much
[21:22:46] <andypugh> Are you wired to the high side or low side of the opto-isolators?
[21:22:56] <mozmck_work> I use parport on with the rtai kernel on hardy on 2 different computers with no problem.
[21:22:57] <ds3> andypugh: not sure how to answer that
[21:23:20] <andypugh> I am not sure I asked it clearly, but I get anodes and cathodes confused
[21:23:47] <ds3> oh like that... not sure if these are pure opto devices
[21:24:04] <ds3> andypugh: this is what it looks like: http://www.silabs.com/products/power/isolators/Pages/default.aspx
[21:24:54] <andypugh> Yeah, OK, that's me baffled.
[21:25:16] <ds3> that's why I been calling them isolators, not opto-isolators
[21:26:32] <andypugh> They don't look like they are the sort of device that takes current, but have you tried seeing what the current out of the p-port pins is in either motor direction?
[21:27:12] <ds3> andypugh: not directly... I do know that the 1 pin that is powering 2 of those chips manages to drop down to <2V at times
[21:27:20] <ds3> donno how long since it was just a DMM
[21:28:22] <andypugh> That sounds like it is drawing excessive current, certainly.
[21:28:45] <ds3> *nod* but apparently, it works with SOME parallel ports
[21:29:13] <ds3> I have seen it working with the seller's setup and he claims to have driven it with direct 3.3V logic (assume CMOS)
[21:30:13] <andypugh> I didn't consider it at all when I wired my machine up and it worked fine. Somewhat later I realised I had 4 drives wired to the same pin (amp-enable) and that meant somewhere round 30mA. That's well outside P-Port spec, but I got lucky.
[21:30:51] <andypugh> Some P-ports will only source 2mA (I have read) but most will sink 15.
[21:31:41] <ds3> yes, I looked it up... the datasheet claims it can draw up to 1.6mA per pin high so 2 pins high would mean 3.2mA which is more then the 2mA that it can source
[21:31:54] <andypugh> Try a pull-up on just the one direction pin and see what you get, then decide if you want a new P-Port card
[21:32:44] <ds3> can't hurt I guess... and I got a bag of 1K's sitting around
[21:33:01] <andypugh> Well... Most P-ports will source 12-15mA too, but yours might be one of those that doesn't.
[21:33:02] <bill2or3> maybe try testing it with just one axis connected...
[21:34:35] <ds3> mine is an ancient ISA card... got a bunch of them cheap for parallel port experiments
[21:42:28] <micges> some ot question: anyone have(heard) any gpl input or output filter for IGES 3D file formats? google didn't find any sane results
[21:44:39] <clytle374> micges, that is where the cam software comes in. As far as a good gpl one? I don't know
[21:49:40] <andypugh> Bah! I have just found a limitation of the Alibre CAM demo, no actual G-code output!
[21:50:52] <ds3> maybe it is T (elepathic) code :D
[21:51:37] <andypugh> (Well, assuming that it is the "Post" command that generates G-code?
[21:53:37] <clytle374> sometime you get an intermediate language.
[21:53:56] <clytle374> ate least with old master cam
[21:55:03] <alex_joni> ds3: for a while there was an alibre cad xpress bundled with cam xpress
[21:55:18] <alex_joni> both free, and pretty useable
[21:55:27] <alex_joni> only 2.5d for the cam
[21:55:50] <ds3> alex_joni: I heard about it but I thought it wanted a code and when I mailed them, they say they don't issue codes for cam xpress *shrug*
[21:56:25] <ds3> alex_joni: the cheap alibre version is quite usable but the step to get CAM is rather steep
[21:57:40] <jt-plasma> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[21:57:45] <alex_joni> ds3: I didn't care much about cam to be honest
[21:57:53] <andypugh> Yes, the actual CAD is pretty good.
[21:57:55] <alex_joni> but it came bundled with the expert version I got
[21:58:05] <alex_joni> which works on 5 stations btw
[21:58:11] <alex_joni> so I think it's a great price
[21:58:19] <ds3> alex_joni: how do you go from CAD to something realizeable?
[21:58:36] <andypugh> alex_joni: So, the solution is that I email you CAD files, and you email me back G-Code? A Plan with no flaws that I can see.
[21:58:44] <ds3> the 3D cad is pretty good but the 2D has somethings to be desired
[21:58:56] <alex_joni> ds3: I mostly do part modeling 3D based on customer drawings 2D
[21:59:03] <jt-plasma> when I move the mouse the cpu gets maxed out on the hardinge p3 1000 512m memory
[21:59:08] <alex_joni> then I use those parts to do robot welding simulations
[21:59:08] <jt-plasma> any ideas?
[21:59:19] <ds3> ohhh I see
[21:59:23] <alex_joni> and if it works, I get to sell a robot (most of the times ;)
[21:59:35] <alex_joni> ds3: right, 2D is pretty bad
[21:59:43] <alex_joni> although v12.1 is a bit better in that aspect
[21:59:50] <alex_joni> andypugh: sure thing
[21:59:53] <ds3> right now alibre ---DXF export --> turbocad seems to be the easiest way to get a flat drawing out to the shop
[21:59:54] <andypugh> What do you mean by 2D?
[22:00:00] <jt-plasma> ps2 mouse... wonder if a usb mouse would make any difference
[22:00:12] <alex_joni> andypugh: dxf, dwg - projection drawings
[22:00:21] <ds3> andypugh: a flat 2D view of a part so that it can be used in the shop
[22:00:35] <andypugh> Hmm, I find the drawing creation bit to be fine.
[22:00:40] <alex_joni> andypugh: btw, my email addy (where to send the drawings) is the same as my paypal account
[22:00:47] <alex_joni> :P
[22:01:29] <andypugh> (In fact, more logical than Inventor which works fine when you are familiar with it, bu is rather unintuitive)
[22:01:33] <ds3> andypugh: unless you are doing 3D surfacing, sheetcam should do it
[22:01:54] <andypugh> Ideally I would find a Mac-native CAM package.
[22:01:55] <alex_joni> sheetcam is sweet for plasma, laser, waterjet stuff
[22:02:18] <andypugh> But i will look at Sheetcam
[22:02:22] <alex_joni> les used to hang in here
[22:02:32] <ds3> sheetcam should be useable for mill too
[22:02:37] <jt-plasma> I use sheet cam on the plasma
[22:02:40] <alex_joni> ds3: never tried mill with it
[22:02:58] <alex_joni> but the flame stuff is very good
[22:03:01] <alex_joni> especially in TNG
[22:03:16] <andypugh> I could have hand-coded the G-code by now, but I thought I had a tool for the job for the next month.
[22:03:37] <andypugh> I wonder if Inventor Professional has CAM? I have that at work.
[22:03:46] <Jymmmmmmm> jt-plasma: ?
[22:04:19] <jt-plasma> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[22:04:55] <jt-plasma> just moving the mouse around maxed out the cpu every few seconds
[22:05:06] <alex_joni> one thing I like about alibre is that they release a new majour version every year
[22:05:14] <alex_joni> usually around august/september
[22:05:25] <alex_joni> you can get the old version for ~ half the price one month earlier
[22:05:30] <ds3> that great if you have maintence....
[22:05:39] <alex_joni> and with a subscription 2-300$ you get the new one for free
[22:05:44] <alex_joni> ds3: indeed
[22:07:04] <alex_joni> hmm.. design expert is 1k$ now.. with some sale price it's really interesting
[22:07:20] <alex_joni> http://www.alibre.com/products/ad_compare.asp
[22:08:08] <jt-hardinge> memory usage is only 34% swap is 0
[22:08:30] <L84Supper> alex_joni: let me know if you need help building the new EMC Live CD
[22:09:45] <alex_joni> L84Supper: we'll see, I think mozmck also wanted to take a stab at building one
[22:09:59] <clytle374> finally got the simulator built with documents. Now if only UPS would get me my hardware.
[22:10:37] <L84Supper> alex_joni: Neo has all the time and funding if you need him
[22:11:30] <alex_joni> who's neo?
[22:11:42] <acemi> matrix
[22:12:27] <L84Supper> Neo wrote all the 9.04, 9.10 and ArchLinux howtos for EMC
[22:12:42] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as Agent_Smith
[22:12:54] <L84Supper> yeah, kids
[22:13:05] <Agent_Smith> :P
[22:13:12] <Agent_Smith> Agent_Smith is now known as Guest51207
[22:13:14] <Guest51207> Guest51207 is now known as alex_joni
[22:14:01] <alex_joni> L84Supper: drop me an email please.. irc logs go by so easily ;)
[22:14:02] <mozmck_work> yeah, I've built a 9.10 based livecd to play with already
[22:14:51] <alex_joni> mozmck_work: seen http://blog.avirtualhome.com/2009/11/03/how-to-compile-a-kernel-for-ubuntu-karmic/ ?
[22:14:57] <mozmck_work> yup!
[22:15:04] <alex_joni> ah, good then
[22:15:19] <alex_joni> guess we'll have a new procedure for lucid
[22:15:31] <mozmck_work> Haven't had time to get back on that since we talked last, although I think I figured out more stuff.
[22:15:51] <mozmck_work> After this week I should have a little more time.
[22:16:03] <alex_joni> well.. it's still close to 2 months away
[22:16:47] <mozmck_work> yeah, that's about enough time to look down and back up again :)
[22:16:52] <alex_joni> lets see how 2.4.0 is in shape by then
[22:17:10] <alex_joni> I'd rather wait with the LiveCD before we have a 2.4.x release
[22:17:21] <alex_joni> that doesn't mean kernel+rtai packages earlier
[22:17:41] <alex_joni> err.. that we can't do kernel+rtai packages earlier
[22:18:41] <mozmck_work> yeah
[22:19:28] <mozmck_work> I figured on working on a livecd as soon as a pre-release comes out just to make sure I have everything figured out.
[22:19:43] <mozmck_work> but not releasing it until 2.4 is released.
[22:20:27] <acemi> which kernel will the livecd have? ?
[22:20:30] <alex_joni> well.. when I did 8.04 they changed the kernel at least 4-5 times between beta and final
[22:20:39] <alex_joni> acemi: some 2.6.32
[22:20:53] <acemi> with rtai 3.8.0?
[22:21:03] <alex_joni> I don't think they (ubuntu) know what version they'll use
[22:21:10] <alex_joni> yeah, lets see what rtai does by then
[22:21:43] <mozmck_work> Last I looked they seemed pretty settled on 2.6.32(.x)
[22:21:44] <alex_joni> rtai 3.8.0 was released yesterday
[22:21:55] <alex_joni> mozmck_work: it's the x that's unknown
[22:22:06] <alex_joni> plus all the patches they use
[22:22:13] <acemi> it seems that debian and ubuntu will have the same kernel
[22:22:32] <alex_joni> acemi: 2 months will be enough time for rtai to find out about issues in 3.8.0
[22:22:39] <mozmck_work> yeah, but I don't know how to figure out what the x is after ubuntu releases a kernel.
[22:22:42] <alex_joni> and maybe publish 3.8.1
[22:23:01] <alex_joni> mozmck_work: usually the procedure involves asking in #ubuntu-kernel ;)
[22:23:20] <alex_joni> or grepping the changelogs
[22:23:22] <acemi> I think it's .8
[22:23:23] <mozmck_work> ah. and asking again until you get an answer.
[22:23:50] <alex_joni> you gotta wait till the right people are chatting :)
[22:23:54] <mozmck_work> I've been using rtai 3.8-pre for a while without issues.
[22:24:15] <mozmck_work> I figured that out!
[22:24:35] <alex_joni> apw, rtg, smb..
[22:24:58] <alex_joni> maybe even BenC, although it's been ages since I saw him chat in #ubuntu-kernel
[22:25:24] <mozmck_work> I haven't been watching it closely, or for very long.
[22:25:35] <mozmck_work> (#ubuntu-kernel that is)
[22:25:48] <alex_joni> right.. I got some good tips in there
[22:26:09] <alex_joni> but mostly for the dapper livecd (which used to be more of a pain)
[22:26:21] <alex_joni> and for the breezy one... iirc
[22:26:45] <mozmck_work> the livecd was not bad. except that they now use lzma compression for the initrd image...
[22:26:47] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/01147559232
[22:26:48] <alex_joni> ha
[22:27:11] <mozmck_work> so I had to unpack the gz image and repack it with lzma
[22:27:34] <mozmck_work> but the image that gets installed I think is still gz
[22:27:46] <L84Supper> I've never come across a group of more sensitive devs than in #ubuntu-kernel and #ubuntu-arm
[22:28:00] <mozmck_work> (maybe that was because I used make-kpkg for that kernel though)
[22:28:29] <mozmck_work> :) I guess I haven't asked the right questions yet to find that out.
[22:28:52] <alex_joni> L84Supper: oh surely #emc-devel is more sensitive than #ubuntu-kernel ;)
[22:29:11] <alex_joni> I mean with more sensitive devs
[22:29:34] <alex_joni> mozmck_work: yeah, make-kpkg is not the 'right' way ;)
[22:29:44] <alex_joni> it's following the dark path..
[22:29:47] <mozmck_work> I found out!
[22:30:27] <alex_joni> for 10.04 I plan to just get a git clone of the kernel and work with that
[22:30:32] <mozmck_work> the 'right' way is not as well documented though so I didn't know about it.
[22:30:41] <clytle374> lets test the sensitivity: How do I open the emc source with Anjuta?
[22:30:51] <alex_joni> what's Anjuta?
[22:30:54] <mozmck_work> I've got a git clone of it already
[22:30:56] <clytle374> devs love noob questions
[22:31:20] <mozmck_work> clytle374: you can create a project from existing source
[22:31:29] <clytle374> Anjuta is an IDE. any free sugestions?
[22:31:34] <alex_joni> mozmck_work: I'm sure he knows ;)
[22:31:45] <clytle374> I'm trying to learn some of the code.
[22:32:08] <alex_joni> clytle374: I assume you read some of the docs
[22:32:14] <alex_joni> (only half kidding..)
[22:32:26] <alex_joni> there are lots of layers and parts in emc2
[22:32:27] <clytle374> Yes, I think I read them all.
[22:32:39] <alex_joni> so it depends what part you're more interested in
[22:32:45] <alex_joni> pick one, and start with that
[22:32:55] <alex_joni> all at once can be a bit too much
[22:33:00] <clytle374> yep
[22:33:20] <L84Supper> ManInShack in #wine is the quickest on the kick/ban button as far as IRC petty tyrants go :0
[22:33:40] <clytle374> the hostmot part. but it is over whelming
[22:33:52] <alex_joni> oh, hmm
[22:34:12] <alex_joni> you mean the emc2 part or the fpga part?
[22:34:18] <alex_joni> driver vs. vhdl
[22:34:42] <clytle374> Looked at the fpga part too, it is scarier
[22:34:50] <alex_joni> right
[22:35:00] <alex_joni> maybe start with something a bit more simple
[22:35:08] <alex_joni> like another HAL driver
[22:35:12] <alex_joni> then move up to hostmot2
[22:35:30] <clytle374> Good point.
[22:35:40] <clytle374> I would like to get an IDE to open it.
[22:35:43] <alex_joni> btw, I'm sure seb is more than willing to answer specific questions on it
[22:35:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uses mcedit as the IDE
[22:36:02] <alex_joni> editor actually
[22:36:12] <alex_joni> didn't see much need for an IDE..
[22:37:24] <clytle374> easier to jump around when you're not good honestly
[22:37:42] <mozmck_work> anjuta is nice. I use it for some projects, and eclipse for others. I'm using eclipse with emc right now.
[22:38:08] <alex_joni> I usually use 4-5 terminals
[22:38:42] <alex_joni> one editor in each, + one for compiling
[22:39:16] <andypugh> SheetCAM looks promising, but I can't make it create a path. I think it is unhappy with all the superfluous lines in the DXF (though I did move my boundary to a different layer)
[22:39:28] <clytle374> once you are familiar with the code, I could see that being best
[22:39:32] <alex_joni> hmm.. I see that the latest ipipe patch is for
[22:40:01] <alex_joni> clytle374: if you want to look at a driver then you mostly need to touch 1 (maybe 2) files
[22:40:06] <mozmck_work> I like an IDE because I can open a bunch of files in tabs, and also scroll through the list of files easily
[22:40:15] <acemi> for rtai, the latest is
[22:40:21] <alex_joni> acemi: saw that
[22:40:37] <alex_joni> in magma, do you happen to know if it's included in 3.8.0 ?
[22:41:08] <mozmck_work> not last I saw.
[22:41:17] <mozmck_work> but that been a week or so
[22:42:00] <mozmck_work> that's
[22:42:28] <alex_joni> I see xenomai already picked it up
[22:44:27] <clytle374> In Anjuta when I import an existing project is get "Loop detected in dependency graph"
[22:45:00] <clytle374> I get
[22:45:44] <mozmck_work> hmm, I remember getting that at one point, maybe that's why I'm using eclipse...
[22:46:30] <micges> clytle374: one of Anjuta weakness
[22:46:53] <mozmck_work> You can also create a project and just add the source to it.
[22:46:53] <clytle374> okay
[22:47:21] <clytle374> I'll try eclipse. I need all the help I can get
[22:47:48] <mozmck_work> One nice thing eclipse does is parse the code fairly well it seems.
[22:48:26] <mozmck_work> you can mouseover a variable, and it will show you the declaration. right click and you can go to the declaration
[22:48:59] <mozmck_work> get eclipse from eclipse.org and use the openjdk for java
[22:49:17] <clytle374> mozmck_work, That is what I need to happen. Thanks
[22:49:22] <clytle374> Don't use apt-get?
[22:49:22] <mozmck_work> you want the cdt.
[22:49:46] <mozmck_work> no, I've heard that version doesn't work as well
[22:50:11] <mozmck_work> they use gcj which doesn't work quite as well as sun java or openjdk
[22:51:05] <mozmck_work> when you download the file from eclipse.org you just unpack it and it's ready to run. Do get openjdk with apt-get btw.
[22:55:33] <clytle374> mozmck_work, I'm at the eclipse site. I can't find a cdt
[22:56:11] <mozmck_work> just a sec
[22:57:19] <mozmck_work> on the downloads page it's "Eclipse IDE for C++ Developers"
[22:58:16] <mozmck_work> http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/
[22:59:34] <clytle374> Thanks. I thought that was it, but I have used up most all my bandwidth allotment for the month
[23:01:14] <Jymmmmmmm> O_o
[23:01:24] <mozmck_work> not fun. I think anjuta does some of the parsing the eclipse does, but just not as well.
[23:02:43] <clytle374> It started with a almost complete Xilinx webkit download failing so I had to start over. Now I found out I have the wrong one.
[23:03:36] <Jymmmmmmm> clytle374: satellite?
[23:03:54] <Jymmmmmmm> clytle374: satellite internet?
[23:05:10] <mozmck_work> bbl
[23:05:32] <clytle374> yep, satelite
[23:05:51] <Jymmmmmmm> how much bandwidth? how much $$$
[23:05:55] <Jymmmmmmm> ?
[23:06:31] <clytle374> $79 for 17G down
[23:07:25] <Jymmmmmmm> how fast?
[23:08:21] <Jymmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmm
[23:08:31] <clytle374> 1.5M down 256K up. The up limit is 5G. It sucks, but I don't have neighbors
[23:09:32] <Jymmmmmmmm> That's the cost of 3G (celluar data) here... $79 for 5GB/mo @ line speed (apx 54Mbps)
[23:09:55] <Jymmmmmmmm> maybe not *THAT* fast, but still
[23:10:26] <clytle374> If a cell phone worked, I would do that.
[23:10:29] <alex_joni> it's about 20$ here, but I think it's 3GB limit, after that it drops to 2G
[23:10:52] <Jymmmmmmmm> alex_joni: That's with a voice plan I suspect
[23:11:12] <Jymmmmmmmm> $79 is pure data only
[23:11:17] <Jymmmmmmmm> no voice
[23:11:27] <Jymmmmmmmm> well maybe $59
[23:11:55] <Jymmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[23:16:05] <steve10778> hello everyone
[23:18:06] <micges> hi
[23:18:09] <aa-danimal-shop> my customer can connect his pc to his phone via usb and use the internet from the phone, so he doesnt get the bandwidth restrictions that come with is wireless card
[23:20:06] <steve10778> i have a question for those using axis, is it possible to make a tab on axis postgui(right side of main axis screen) for the tool table, that would have boxes for say 20 tools and offsets., i think it would be cool to click on a tool tab, and populate the fields all from the front end. has anyone done this and is it doable?
[23:22:08] <aa-danimal-shop> have you tried the tool touch off? it automatically updates the tool table
[23:22:53] <micges> we have external tool editor
[23:23:05] <micges> runed from axis
[23:24:22] <steve10778> no, im still building the control/computer. taking a long time. just thinking of things i "think" i would like. i like our haas, because i can edit tool offsets, put in wear comps and set work offsets g54-gxx
[23:25:12] <micges> oh I see
[23:27:18] <steve10778> unfortunately, on my last emc2 machine i didnt get to use it that much before my computer took a dump. since then i took all the cnc stuff off of it and made it manual again, i bought a bridgeport cnc that i am putting emc on.
[23:27:19] <skunkworks> I had satellite for a while. better than dialup - but ath is about it..
[23:27:23] <skunkworks> that is about it
[23:27:26] <micges> It's imposible now doing it like pyvcp panel on Axis, but you can hack Axis source to add what you want to main gui window
[23:28:13] <skunkworks> the second we got access to dsl - we switched. The main issues where download restrictions and 1sec+ ping times
[23:28:24] <steve10778> is axis written like a pyvcp panel, where would i look?
[23:29:21] <skunkworks> axis is a python program for the most part... It isn't like pyvcp at all.
[23:29:29] <clytle374> skunkworks, sadly the DSL is a long time in the future here. 9 miles of copper, and we have trouble all the time.
[23:29:30] <micges> Axis is python program with tk gui
[23:29:57] <steve10778> ok. probably not something im capable of at the moment. still going through my learning curve.
[23:30:19] <skunkworks> clytle374: been there.
[23:30:47] <skunkworks> like I say - better than dialup - but if there are any other options.. go for it.
[23:31:31] <alex_joni> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm: no, data only
[23:32:31] <micges> good night all
[23:32:40] <skunkworks> night
[23:33:09] <alex_joni> for 79$ you get 50GB of 3G here
[23:33:26] <alex_joni> 7.2Mbps max dl speed
[23:34:08] <steve10778> i know what i would like if you look in the manual, under mini gui, there is nice windows for the tools and work offsets, that would be cool to have in axis.
[23:34:34] <alex_joni> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm: http://orange.ro/abonamente-date/abo-internet-nelimitat-ro.html
[23:43:11] <andypugh> steve10778: There was a screenshot of an alternative EMC interface posted here the other day with buttons for individual tools.
[23:43:35] <alex_joni> andypugh: which one?
[23:43:54] <andypugh> Dunno, if I had to guess I would say that you posted it.
[23:44:15] <andypugh> But my memory isn't what it was. In fact I can't even remeber how good my memory used to be.
[23:44:56] <ds3> any of them curses based?
[23:45:44] <alex_joni> ah might be the german interface
[23:45:46] <alex_joni> mocca
[23:45:50] <andypugh> That's the one.
[23:46:34] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,1813/lang,english/
[23:47:44] <clytle374> That is nice.
[23:50:18] <andypugh> I wonder what makes him think that the GPL license isn't valid in Europe? My iPhone still has about 1000 pages of GPL licenses taking up valuable memory space.
[23:50:43] <alex_joni> andypugh: indeed
[23:51:06] <alex_joni> even in the US written code is copyrighted
[23:51:16] <alex_joni> copyright and license are 2 different things
[23:52:15] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4069PUk3aM0