#emc | Logs for 2010-02-12

[00:00:05] <andypugh> Any help?
[00:03:25] <andypugh> No response from jt_plasma. Does that mean he has blown up the PC and the intertubes?
[00:03:55] <jt-plasma> the last tab has a hook on it
[00:04:40] <andypugh> The pictures I can find on the interweb all show hooks, I have no idea what they are for, I am not a PC kind of chap.
[00:05:51] <jt-plasma> :/ it won't power up now
[00:06:29] <danimal_garage> is your bios configured for an agp card?
[00:06:39] <Jymmm> jt-plasma: YOU FORGOT THE BBQ SAUCE!
[00:06:52] <danimal_garage> i know at least mine has that option in bios
[00:07:10] <andypugh> Is card-voltage jumper-configured somewhere?
[00:07:10] <jt-plasma> that is all it takes is agp
[00:07:11] <danimal_garage> and yes, the BBQ sauce as well
[00:07:37] <jt-plasma> I must have dorked the mobo putting on the heat sink and fan :/
[00:07:53] <Jymmm> jt-plasma: beeps?
[00:07:55] <jt-plasma> power supply won't even come on
[00:07:59] <andypugh> Well, pull the card out and see if it powers up then?
[00:08:15] <andypugh> Switched on at the wall?
[00:08:25] <Jymmm> plugged in? lol
[00:10:15] <jt-plasma> I put the old heat sink back on and it powered up :?
[00:10:28] <Jymmm> jt-plasma: cpu heatsink?
[00:10:57] <Jymmm> LONG PAUSE FROM jt-plasma
[00:11:09] <andypugh> Anything useful here: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/17/t1447748-boot-with-new-agp-card-card-mobo-fine/
[00:11:52] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: make sure your heatsink grease is covering the entire contact area for the processor or you'll have issues
[00:12:05] <jt-plasma> I put the new agp card in and it powers up...
[00:12:22] <jt-plasma> the heatsink came with grease on it all ready
[00:12:32] <Jymmm> I suspect it wasn't seated properly
[00:13:02] <Jymmm> it happens
[00:16:53] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma takes the angle grinder to the heat sink for revenge
[00:18:25] <jt-plasma> I don't think the heat sink is touching the cpu properly ro some reason
[00:18:38] <jt-plasma> s/ro/for
[00:20:36] <jt-plasma> damm heat sink touches the socket...
[00:21:46] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma gets his Stihl Chain Saw out
[00:27:16] <jt-plasma> Jymmm: wins the prize, where do you want the slice of jerky sent
[00:28:09] <danimal_garage> my house
[00:29:44] <andypugh> <waves>
[00:29:57] <jt-plasma> and Jymmm will be by to pick it up LOL
[00:30:38] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma thinks I'll make some more jerky this weekend...
[00:30:49] <danimal_garage> wonder if my truck still starts, i need to go gets some rocks for the front yard
[00:31:25] <danimal_garage> parents are coming out this month, guess i should clean up and tidy up the landscaping a bit
[00:34:36] <danimal_garage> maybe at least pick up the dog poop lol
[00:34:50] <jt-plasma> and the beer cans :)
[00:35:03] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: how do you make the jerky? dehydrator?
[00:35:29] <danimal_garage> cans? i'm not that white trash, i at least buy good beer lol
[00:37:20] <jt-plasma> in my smoker
[00:37:35] <danimal_garage> mmm sounds good
[00:37:56] <danimal_garage> i tihnk my dad would be upset if he thought i was drinking crappy beer
[00:38:33] <jt-plasma> ribs http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Done.jpg
[00:39:07] <jt-plasma> smoker http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/SmokingRibs.jpg
[00:39:39] <jt-plasma> measuring ingredients for jerky http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Cure.jpg
[00:40:01] <frallzor> sure it isnt a methlab?!
[00:40:22] <jt-plasma> making snack sticks
[00:40:23] <jt-plasma> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Snack%20Sticks/Grinding.jpg
[00:40:38] <jt-plasma> in a blizzard http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Snack%20Sticks/Smoking01.jpg
[00:40:56] <jt-plasma> stuffing http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Snack%20Sticks/Stuffing01-1.jpg
[00:41:09] <jt-plasma> mmmm http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Snack%20Sticks/snacksticks001.jpg
[00:41:50] <jt-plasma> Canadian Bacon http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Canadian%20Bacon/CB03.jpg
[00:43:36] <jt-plasma> I hope I didn't bbq the cpu :/
[00:43:40] <danimal_garage> damn now i'm hungry
[00:44:32] <danimal_garage> p4?
[00:45:18] <danimal_garage> whats the little box next to the smoker with the readout? a temp control unit you made?
[00:46:54] <jt-plasma> plc smoker control
[00:47:05] <jt-plasma> must have smoked it :/
[00:48:00] <danimal_garage> nice! (about the smoker) shitty about the cpu
[00:48:06] <danimal_garage> is it a P$?
[00:48:10] <danimal_garage> P4*
[00:48:32] <jt-plasma> Socket A motherboard
[00:50:04] <danimal_garage> i have spare processors that might work
[00:50:39] <jt-plasma> I might have some in all these spare computers laying about
[00:50:53] <jt-plasma> this one had an amd processor
[00:51:06] <danimal_garage> yea
[00:51:24] <danimal_garage> is it the same as a socket 462?
[00:51:32] <jt-plasma> the manual says socket 462
[00:51:38] <jt-plasma> LOL
[00:51:46] <danimal_garage> let me know, i have several kicking around
[00:51:53] <danimal_garage> processors, that is
[00:52:07] <jt-plasma> ok, time for me to cook pizza
[00:52:16] <danimal_garage> you can have one if you need
[00:52:24] <danimal_garage> ok, adios
[00:52:24] <jt-plasma> thanks
[00:52:37] <jt-plasma> talk to you later
[00:52:45] <danimal_garage> amd xp2600 processors
[00:52:48] <danimal_garage> no prob
[00:52:55] <jt-plasma> my wife speaks spanish but I do not LOL
[00:53:14] <danimal_garage> goodbye*
[00:53:17] <jt-plasma> anyway it is time to cook
[00:55:54] <Jymmm> jt-plasma: Glad you found the issue
[00:56:40] <danimal_garage> Jymmm: he said its cooked
[00:57:38] <Jymmm> How so? He said he replaced a card and it booted up
[01:00:45] <danimal_garage> down further he said he must have smoked it
[01:01:44] <Jymmm> ah
[01:18:23] <El_Matarife> Making more progress on my Joe's 4x4 Hybrid
[01:18:36] <El_Matarife> Just mounted the fans for the controller box tonight http://www.lascolinascnc.com/2010/02/11/controller-fans/
[01:26:43] <danimal_garage> looks good!
[01:29:27] <El_Matarife> I can almost taste it
[01:30:07] <danimal_garage> saw dust can have that effect
[01:33:46] <danimal_garage> rats, my cycle time counter resets for m00 and m1's
[01:59:31] <skunkworks> coworker picked up some amc drives that take pwm+dir input (will do brushed and brushless) and they run real nice off the printer port. :)
[02:03:23] <danimal_garage> nice
[02:04:31] <tlab> skunk what's the normal ipm of a parallel port ran cnc?
[02:08:51] <skunkworks> your limited by how fast you could read the encoder back in.. (if you are closing the loop) I was playing around with it as a spindle..
[02:09:50] <tlab> ahh I'm using steppers.. open loop
[02:10:20] <tlab> my setup seems rather.. slow
[02:10:45] <danimal_garage> still?
[02:11:07] <tlab> ya it all depends on the jitter and the step size I put in
[02:11:15] <tlab> if I can get my jitter down it would help
[02:11:18] <danimal_garage> change the max velocity in the ini file and see if you can get it any faster
[02:11:36] <danimal_garage> what's your jitter?
[02:11:41] <tlab> 15000
[02:11:50] <danimal_garage> a little high
[02:11:59] <tlab> I had it under 6000 at one time
[02:12:18] <tlab> when I compiled the smp kernel... but I haven't reinstall that kernel yet
[02:12:21] <danimal_garage> i dont think 15000 is horrible though
[02:12:48] <tlab> if I edit the ini file, I may go over the bandwidth of the parallel bus
[02:13:09] <danimal_garage> my mill is probably around 12000ns
[02:13:22] <tlab> ya but your using a mesa card yes?
[02:13:26] <danimal_garage> yea
[02:13:36] <danimal_garage> kinda doesnt matter i guess
[02:13:41] <tlab> I would think that would make a difference
[02:13:44] <danimal_garage> yea
[02:13:50] <Valen> SMP kernel isn't that hard to put in
[02:14:09] <Valen> I think its even in a repo somewhere?
[02:14:12] <tlab> ya I know, I had it installed at one time... but ended up reinstalling the whole ubuntu
[02:14:32] <tlab> wiped the smp kernel and haven't reinstalled it
[02:14:46] <danimal_garage> whats an smp kernel?
[02:15:55] <tlab> it's for a dual core processor
[02:16:03] <danimal_garage> ahh
[02:16:06] <skunkworks> Symmetric multiprocessing
[02:16:38] <tlab> but ya my ipm is real low.. like 18ipm
[02:17:33] <tlab> I'll try bumping up the velocity in the ini and see what it does
[02:17:49] <Valen> means you have one CPU reserved for realtime stuff
[02:18:06] <danimal_garage> 18ipm is rediculous
[02:18:15] <danimal_garage> no reason it should be that low
[02:19:31] <Valen> 180 would be a better start ;->
[02:20:47] <danimal_garage> if my big lump of iron does 110, i would think his desktop millshould do at least that.
[02:21:06] <danimal_garage> mesa card or no mesa card
[02:21:40] <tlab_> I'm workin on it lol... I'm just a noob here
[02:21:44] <Valen> thought yours would do that while cutting lol
[02:22:12] <Valen> ours runs at 240 on rapids atm
[02:22:12] <danimal_garage> ha, i have cut some stuff at 110ipm, accidentally
[02:22:21] <danimal_garage> stepper?
[02:22:26] <Valen> direct drive servo
[02:22:32] <danimal_garage> well thats why
[02:22:34] <danimal_garage> lol
[02:22:37] <Valen> thats mainly because I'm scared of running it faster
[02:22:53] <danimal_garage> i have 1350oz in steppers, slower than molases
[02:23:43] <Valen> ours are 500w scooter motors
[02:24:04] <danimal_garage> oh yea i remember yours now
[02:24:38] <Valen> you should, its awesome ;->
[02:24:49] <Valen> did I show you the rotary table?
[02:25:00] <danimal_garage> i dont think so
[02:25:03] <danimal_garage> link me
[02:25:32] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/russell/mill/rotary_table/11012010455.jpg
[02:25:47] <Valen> dad made these on it the other day http://www.vapourforge.com/russell/mill/clamps/05022010509.jpg
[02:25:52] <Valen> not the rotary table
[02:25:56] <Valen> thats not running yet
[02:27:31] <Valen> they are dead set the most sexy clamps I have ever seen lol
[02:27:34] <danimal_garage> nice~
[02:27:51] <danimal_garage> haha yea, way better than the purchased ones
[02:28:07] <danimal_garage> how big is that servo?
[02:28:12] <Valen> well they were plastic and exploded the first time he tightned it up
[02:28:27] <Valen> 500W 5000RPM into a 100:1 harmonic drive reducer
[02:28:48] <Valen> physically ~30cmx8 or so?
[02:28:53] <skunkworks> is there any backlash?
[02:28:57] <Valen> probably bigger
[02:29:07] <Valen> harmonic drives are sposed to be 0 backlash
[02:29:19] <Valen> theres none I can feel
[02:29:22] <Valen> or see
[02:30:04] <skunkworks> neat
[02:33:09] <Valen> roughly speaking its about the size of my forearm
[02:33:15] <Valen> its a propper servo ;->
[02:34:08] <danimal_garage> cool
[02:35:33] <skunkworks> http://mcmastercarr.com/
[02:36:25] <skunkworks> heh - That wasn't supposed to be pasted here.. ;)
[02:36:39] <Valen> sure, we all know what pr0n you like
[02:36:42] <Valen> hardware pr0n
[02:38:11] <skunkworks> It's a propper servo!! I like it. ;)
[02:48:04] <tlab_> * tlab_ compiles the kernel
[02:56:51] <danimal_garage> i think ill order some encoders now
[02:56:57] <danimal_garage> for the mill and lathe
[03:35:29] <john_f> exit
[04:43:50] <frysteev> Jymmm awake?
[04:45:40] <Valen> skunkworks: ey well our other "servos" are scooter motors and linear scales
[04:50:52] <danimal_garage> whatever works
[04:53:32] <danimal_garage> I gotta say i love having a toolchanger
[04:54:53] <frysteev> you are a tool changer
[04:55:52] <danimal_garage> Finally, i'm actually not
[04:56:09] <ds3> are there anyone that makes an ATC for the smaller machines?
[04:56:39] <danimal_garage> how small?
[04:56:52] <ds3> sherline/taig
[04:57:05] <danimal_garage> oh i dunno, i dont think so
[04:57:14] <ds3> for the next size up, there is the tormach stuff
[04:57:32] <danimal_garage> make your own
[04:57:51] <danimal_garage> there isnt a ton of moving parts
[04:58:17] <ds3> just donno how to get the alignment to repeat
[04:59:05] <frysteev> how do the tool changers work?
[05:00:40] <ds3> lathe or mill?
[05:00:44] <danimal_garage> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE8xAXmYv4Q
[05:00:48] <danimal_garage> there's mine
[05:00:51] <danimal_garage> on the mill
[05:01:57] <Valen> danimal i hate you ;-P
[05:02:02] <danimal_garage> lol
[05:02:06] <Jymmm> frysteev: no
[05:02:24] <frysteev> oh ok
[05:02:30] <frysteev> limit switches are done
[05:02:31] <ds3> danimal_garage: nice
[05:02:35] <danimal_garage> thanks
[05:02:47] <ds3> what kind of machine is it?
[05:02:48] <Jymmm> frysteev: WooHoo, Now make me a cheeseburger
[05:03:05] <frysteev> umm it might taste of cutting oil
[05:03:06] <danimal_garage> my lathe toolchanger is just an 8 position turret, nothing to write home about
[05:03:17] <danimal_garage> it's a Shizuoka AN-S
[05:03:30] <ds3> so those are CAT-xx holders?
[05:03:40] <danimal_garage> NMBT-40
[05:03:43] <danimal_garage> similar
[05:03:52] <ds3> big!
[05:04:15] <ds3> a NMBT-40 is about the size of my spindle
[05:04:29] <danimal_garage> haha
[05:04:46] <danimal_garage> probably a bit overkill for this machine, i think a 30 taper would be fine
[05:05:07] <danimal_garage> but NMBT-40 holders are dirt cheap and easier to find
[05:05:46] <danimal_garage> here's some pics of the mill: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shizuoka/
[05:05:53] <ds3> *nod* it just takes a machine big enough
[05:06:00] <frysteev> danimal_garage: that is awesome
[05:06:28] <ds3> is your lathe turret changer an ATC?
[05:06:30] <danimal_garage> and here's the lathe: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/
[05:06:39] <danimal_garage> frysteev: thanks!
[05:06:49] <Jymmm> frysteev: as long as it's all organic and food grade safe
[05:06:50] <danimal_garage> ds3: yes
[05:07:24] <frysteev> food milling hmmm
[05:07:40] <danimal_garage> Jymmm: i got some soy based cutting oil you can try
[05:07:53] <Jymmm> better be food grade
[05:08:00] <ds3> danimal_garage: horizontal or vertical and how many positions?
[05:08:16] <danimal_garage> horizontal, 8
[05:08:38] <danimal_garage> check the last link i posted, it shows the turret
[05:09:01] <danimal_garage> It's a Hardinge HNC
[05:09:10] <ds3> Whoa
[05:09:25] <ds3> I used a very close japanese copy of your lathe
[05:09:34] <danimal_garage> ha
[05:09:36] <frysteev> is there diy tool changers?
[05:09:37] <ds3> with the same tool changer.. what kind of control is on there?
[05:09:49] <danimal_garage> EMC on both machines
[05:10:12] <ds3> the copy I used had a fanuc control
[05:10:21] <ds3> is that 16C spindle?
[05:10:22] <danimal_garage> nice
[05:10:27] <danimal_garage> 5c
[05:10:36] <ds3> so that is different
[05:10:44] <danimal_garage> it's a 30 year old lathe
[05:11:17] <ds3> that clone is probally the same age... it had a paper tape reader on there
[05:11:21] <danimal_garage> this had an old GE control, but it was crap
[05:11:33] <danimal_garage> yea so did this
[05:12:08] <danimal_garage> i think this was pre-fanuc
[05:12:38] <ds3> wow
[05:12:52] <ds3> always wanted to see what the original it was copied from was like
[05:13:06] <danimal_garage> ha
[05:13:10] <danimal_garage> there it is!
[05:13:21] <danimal_garage> serial number 416
[05:13:49] <ds3> does your ATC jam?
[05:15:06] <danimal_garage> no, i got it dialed in pretty good
[05:15:14] <danimal_garage> it did though
[05:15:23] <danimal_garage> there's a magnet you have to adjust
[05:15:45] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: Is this your photo? http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shizuoka/?action=view&current=DSCN0779.jpg
[05:15:48] <ds3> Oh? we used a 12"length of broom stick to unwedge it
[05:16:08] <ds3> but then that was a machine at a JC
[05:16:40] <danimal_garage> Jymmm: yes
[05:16:50] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: Did you wire that panel?
[05:17:19] <danimal_garage> yes, never said i was a pro :)
[05:17:46] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: It's called PANDUIT
[05:19:15] <danimal_garage> i dont know what that is and google brings up 100 different results
[05:19:55] <Jymmm> http://media.digikey.com/photos/Panduit%20Corp%20Photos/H4X4LG6.jpg
[05:20:18] <Jymmm> It's plastic 'U' shaped track for running cabling
[05:20:25] <Jymmm> comes with a cover too
[05:20:30] <Jymmm> various sizes
[05:20:45] <danimal_garage> oh that crap, i got a bunch of it, but it wont work well for the room i had
[05:20:53] <Jymmm> No excuse
[05:21:23] <Jymmm> Yo have PLENTY of room
[05:21:34] <danimal_garage> but not plenty of wire
[05:21:53] <danimal_garage> some of the cables come off of stuff that would be a bitch to swap out
[05:22:03] <danimal_garage> like the tool changer
[05:22:33] <Jymmm> Again, no excuse. I've seen ppl get fired for having a wiring closet looking like that
[05:22:46] <danimal_garage> ok, i'll fire myself
[05:22:46] <Jymmm> for shame!
[05:22:49] <Jymmm> for shame!
[05:22:51] <Jymmm> for shame!
[05:22:52] <Jymmm> for shame!
[05:22:58] <Jymmm> </Gomer_Pyle>
[05:23:12] <danimal_garage> the ribbon cable makes it look worse than it is
[05:23:29] <Jymmm> I'm ignoring the ribbn cable (for the moment)
[05:24:24] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: I can tell you EXACTLY what the problem was... you were just anxious to get it going.
[05:24:46] <Jymmm> Also, I don't see any CB/fuses in there
[05:25:05] <danimal_garage> for 12v?
[05:25:21] <Jymmm> For any of it (but could be out-of-view)
[05:25:41] <danimal_garage> there is fuses for higher voltage stuff
[05:25:56] <danimal_garage> not for the 5v stuff
[05:26:08] <danimal_garage> from the mesa boards
[05:26:22] <danimal_garage> there's 2 other enclosures on that machine
[05:26:53] <Jymmm> As a side-note... I dont like that the SSR relays are mounted in such a way that someone could reach in and touch the contacts inadvertanly.
[05:27:04] <Jymmm> Adn the HIGH side too
[05:27:21] <danimal_garage> they'd get a death-defying 5v shock
[05:27:47] <Jymmm> depending if there are no floating grounds anywhere
[05:27:59] <danimal_garage> they arent high voltage
[05:28:17] <Jymmm> and 5VDC side of a PC PS is 10A+ potential
[05:28:33] <Jymmm> it only take 80mA (iirc)
[05:29:08] <Jymmm> and switcher PS are not isolated (typically)
[05:29:46] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: and wth is the grn/wht twisted pair so tight?
[05:29:50] <danimal_garage> i really dont see where i could put that panduit stuff
[05:30:21] <danimal_garage> it's twisted the same way it was under the sheathing
[05:30:26] <Jymmm> Ok, flip all the boards so the ribbon cable is on the right, instead of left.
[05:30:30] <danimal_garage> i didnt twist it
[05:30:40] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: No, it's AWEFULLY tight
[05:30:43] <danimal_garage> then my cables wont reach
[05:30:48] <Jymmm> no slack in it
[05:31:33] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: Well, next time take that into consideration. you need the slack
[05:32:00] <danimal_garage> optical illusion, there's some slack.. i just opened it and looked
[05:32:17] <Jymmm> I can only go by what I can see in the pic.
[05:32:41] <danimal_garage> i know
[05:33:50] <danimal_garage> i use my machines to pay the mortgage, i cant spend too much time to make it look pretty. i'm the only one who touches the machines, so noone is gunna get zapped
[05:34:20] <danimal_garage> i know you'll say no excuse, but tell that to my lender lol
[05:34:54] <Jymmm> I can appreciate that. But when you count on something to put food on the table, you also want to give it some TLC too
[05:35:26] <Jymmm> Not have it fail when you need it most
[05:35:38] <Jymmm> (potentially)
[05:36:40] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: I'm not trying to be an ass, just put a lil TLC in it s all I'm saying.
[05:36:44] <danimal_garage> being that i built it, i can troubleshoot it fairly quickly.. but i see your point
[05:37:22] <danimal_garage> i know. it's lightyears beyond what it was before though
[05:37:45] <Jymmm> heh
[05:37:57] <danimal_garage> i'm a machinist, i have no training in this stuff
[05:38:09] <Jymmm> ok Bones
[05:38:11] <Jymmm> =)
[05:38:21] <danimal_garage> there is a learning curve :)
[05:38:29] <danimal_garage> Bones?
[05:39:48] <danimal_garage> sorry, i'm cranky, i just finished working and i havent eaten more than a bowl of ceral and a pb and j all day
[05:39:52] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: From Star Trek - famous catch phrases
[05:40:05] <danimal_garage> oh
[05:40:07] <Jymmm> go eat
[05:40:10] <danimal_garage> never seen it
[05:40:15] <danimal_garage> pizza is cooking!
[05:40:18] <Jymmm> the ORIGINAL Star Trek
[05:40:27] <danimal_garage> never saw any of them
[05:40:32] <danimal_garage> or star wars
[05:40:45] <danimal_garage> i cant stand sci fi
[05:41:06] <Jymmm> "I'm a doctor, not an engineer."
[05:41:16] <Jymmm> "I'm a doctor, not a mechanic."
[05:41:22] <Jymmm> etc
[05:41:37] <danimal_garage> ha
[05:41:39] <danimal_garage> gotcha
[05:41:55] <Jymmm> His nickname (and now yours) is 'Bones'
[05:42:00] <danimal_garage> ok, i'm jack of all trades, master of none
[05:42:17] <Jymmm> Been there, still doing that
[05:43:26] <danimal_garage> i'm sure that enclosure will change 8 times this year lol
[05:44:05] <Jymmm> Well use some of that panduit, 1.5" works nicely for the most part
[05:44:40] <danimal_garage> yea, i got a bunch of it from various things
[05:45:10] <danimal_garage> i really need to string a new cable from the tool changer
[05:45:11] <Jymmm> Score with a carpet knife and snap
[05:45:22] <danimal_garage> it's barely long enough to reach
[05:45:40] <Jymmm> to remove tabs easily when you setup a 'T'
[05:45:44] <danimal_garage> (that's what she said)
[05:45:55] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[05:47:14] <danimal_garage> i should just get a huge cabinet and consolidate
[05:48:01] <danimal_garage> hmm they do have some at the surplus yard
[05:48:23] <Jymmm> I have no place for a huge cabinet, so I'm trying to work with a full height PC case - gutted, or some smaller ones (that look cool), but not enough room for everything cleanly
[05:48:50] <danimal_garage> yea, i dont have a ton of room either.
[05:49:27] <Jymmm> I have a 3rd enclosure that's awesome, but I need to cut some square holes and nfc how I can do that cleanly (no access to a mill)
[05:50:06] <danimal_garage> i have 2 enclosures about that size (12x16x20 ish) plus a smaller enclosure, and my vfd-s and resistors are mounted on the back of the mill
[05:50:19] <danimal_garage> jig saw works well
[05:50:32] <Jymmm> Not in 1/8" steel =)
[05:51:11] <danimal_garage> that's pretty thick for an enclosure
[05:51:29] <danimal_garage> most of mine are like .07" ish
[05:51:30] <Jymmm> Sure, but this one is cool =)
[05:52:23] <danimal_garage> the size of enclosure i'll need will be big enough to crawl inside
[05:52:32] <Jymmm> lol
[05:52:38] <danimal_garage> if i wanna fit everything
[05:52:51] <danimal_garage> stepper power supply is pretty large
[05:53:19] <danimal_garage> plus VFD, braking resistors, and the VFD braking unit
[05:53:36] <danimal_garage> stepper amps
[05:53:44] <Jymmm> =)
[05:53:49] <danimal_garage> motor contacts
[05:53:54] <danimal_garage> all that crap
[05:54:05] <danimal_garage> unfortunately takes up some real estate
[05:54:44] <danimal_garage> well pizza's done, gotta run. adios
[05:54:55] <frysteev> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSG2al1Sus
[05:57:06] <danimal_garage> lol wtf?
[05:58:02] <danimal_garage> needs more wood
[05:58:16] <Jymmm> ...and duct tape
[05:58:59] <danimal_garage> see, mine isnt the worst one out there
[05:59:04] <danimal_garage> lol
[05:59:08] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: eh
[05:59:51] <Jymmm> scope? He has a scope? does he mena on his bb gun?
[06:00:19] <Jymmm> nylon rope counter balance - nice!
[06:00:39] <Jymmm> dual head - awesome!
[06:03:03] <frysteev> hehe
[07:01:53] <frysteev> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I3diD1lpho
[07:28:44] <Eric_K> getting the emc listserv on a usable email account might be bad for my mood
[08:06:14] <MrSunshine> frysteev, wtf =)
[08:06:28] <MrSunshine> has to have a flex of the X axis of like an inch :P
[12:39:39] <ries> Hey Guys, I have a charge pump circuit enable to my PMDX.... Now when my computer did shut of due to thermal heat, my router went on/off for a split second. COuld that be because the charge pump is to slow to notice that my computer is off?
[12:49:03] <alex_joni> ries: the chargepump usually has a time constant
[12:49:11] <alex_joni> it's probably mentioned in the manual how long it is
[12:49:23] <alex_joni> but something around 1 second is to be expected
[12:50:45] <ries> alex_joni: it states I need to feed it with 100Hz, for me that would mean during any fault, my outputs stay active for at least 100ms (depending on the implementation of the CP)
[12:54:19] <alex_joni> ries: usually at least 5-6 cycles before it notices an error
[12:54:56] <ries> Indeed...
[12:55:51] <ries> I have had two times my computer shutting down due to thermal problems, and my router did turn on/off for a split second. I think this is because my CP circuit is to slow.
[12:58:05] <alex_joni> did anything happen when it turned on?
[13:04:34] <ries> alex_joni: it did shut of right away, it's just a split second
[13:06:53] <frallzor> hefty steppers these ones ries =)
[13:07:52] <ries> frallzor: yeaaa... that's why you need a estop circuit ;)รง
[16:44:04] <bill20r3> bill20r3 is now known as bill2or3
[16:54:36] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: How da hell are ya?
[16:55:18] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I heard you had a issue with a mobo
[17:03:19] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, hey... not too bad.... listening to the olympics mayhem in Vancouver on the radio
[17:03:34] <Jymmm> mayhem?
[17:03:58] <LawrenceG> people taking over downtown and putting it in gridlock
[17:04:46] <LawrenceG> they are doing the final parts of the torch run for the opening ceremonies tonight
[17:05:12] <Jymmm> ah
[17:06:50] <LawrenceG> 175M budget for security and they are over a billion so far and all it takes is one doorknob with a hand grenade to put a kink in the system.. they blew up a fishing rod yesterday (unattended package)
[17:07:25] <LawrenceG> I am glad I am 60miles from the action
[17:07:29] <Jymmm> Nice
[17:08:51] <skunkworks> heh - really? funny. I don't really know canada at all. I always assume all this stuff is taking place on the east side of it.
[17:09:09] <MrSunshine> what is the format of MAX_VELOCITY = in emc ?
[17:09:12] <MrSunshine> inches? mm ?
[17:09:22] <MrSunshine> if i set it to 118.11 inches i wont get 300mm/s
[17:09:27] <skunkworks> machine units - units/sec
[17:09:36] <LawrenceG> with the money spent on the olympics, they could probably have bought everyone that wanted one, a bridgeport with emc2
[17:09:55] <MrSunshine> ahh depends on how many steps it is etc?
[17:10:16] <MrSunshine> input scale 157.48
[17:11:28] <Danimal-office> units as in units of measure
[17:11:33] <Danimal-office> inches or mm
[17:11:51] <Danimal-office> if your unit is mm, you put it in millimeters
[17:11:55] <MrSunshine> Danimal-office, but if i set it to 300 it becomes like 28000mm/sec
[17:11:59] <MrSunshine> in axis
[17:12:13] <Danimal-office> then you have your units set wrong i'd assume
[17:12:13] <MrSunshine> 1.95 becomes 117mm/s
[17:12:16] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: What do you have the units set to? Inches or mm?
[17:12:28] <MrSunshine> Jymmm, its the axis_mm profile
[17:12:31] <MrSunshine> in simulation
[17:12:36] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: What do you have the units set to? Inches or mm?
[17:12:41] <MrSunshine> mm
[17:12:46] <Danimal-office> you need to set units in the ini
[17:12:48] <Jymmm> ok then, there ya go
[17:12:48] <MrSunshine> "axis_(((MM)))"
[17:12:59] <MrSunshine> vi configs/sim/axis_mm.ini
[17:13:02] <MrSunshine> im editing that
[17:13:57] <Danimal-office> i think you might have your scale off maybe?
[17:14:00] <MrSunshine> settings MAX_VELOCITY to 1.95 and when i start axis its 117mm/s
[17:14:12] <MrSunshine> "INPUT_SCALE = 157.48"
[17:14:20] <skunkworks> 117mm/s or mm/min?
[17:14:25] <MrSunshine> ahh min :P
[17:14:39] <Danimal-office> there ya go
[17:14:46] <MrSunshine> ahh got it =)
[17:14:47] <skunkworks> that makes sense - 1.95*60 = 117mm/min
[17:14:48] <MrSunshine> 1.95 * 60
[17:14:50] <MrSunshine> yeah
[17:14:50] <MrSunshine> :)
[17:14:54] <Danimal-office> simple fix
[17:15:12] <Danimal-office> that's the kinda mistake i make :)
[17:26:04] <MrSunshine> =)
[17:26:08] <MrSunshine> thanks for the help
[17:26:46] <MrSunshine> 25mins to cut a 60x99mm block of 10mm alu
[17:26:47] <MrSunshine> :/
[17:26:58] <MrSunshine> i need higher speed spindle and better endmills :P
[17:28:29] <MrSunshine> and less friction
[17:28:38] <MrSunshine> i wonder how to fix the friction problem .. or stronger steppers :P
[17:28:44] <tlab> I'm having a hard time making a .config file for smp to work on emc, anyone have any suggestions? I thought a step thru on how to compile the kernel was in the emc docs but I don't see it
[17:28:54] <Optic> moo
[17:32:05] <MrSunshine> what kind of aluminium has the best millability ? :)
[17:33:14] <frallzor> any
[17:33:32] <frallzor> I'd say it depends on what you have =)
[17:48:22] <danimal_garage> i think 7075 machines alot better than 6061 but it's more expensive
[17:48:44] <danimal_garage> 7075 doesnt stick to the cutters nearly as bad as 6061
[17:52:08] <danimal_garage> MrSunshine: are your steppers stalling?
[17:52:52] <danimal_garage> might be an acceleration issue if it's stalling at slower speeds
[17:53:49] <danimal_garage> like durring starts and direction changes
[18:00:31] <Deffie> hi all, can you please tell me the name in english of this http://www.bocchicontrol.it/prodotti_dettaglio.jsp?cid=14&sid=96&p=0&id=326 ?
[18:01:02] <Deffie> it is a base where you can do precise measures, commonly used in mechanics
[18:01:09] <JT-Work> Jymmm: yep cpu I think and a case of DA
[18:01:20] <Deffie> but dont know its name in english
[18:01:21] <danimal_garage> DA?
[18:01:23] <Eric_K> Deffie surface plate
[18:01:29] <Deffie> thank you :)
[18:01:31] <JT-Work> dumbass
[18:01:32] <cradek> "surface plate"
[18:02:17] <danimal_garage> man, they had vernier calipers on that page
[18:02:33] <danimal_garage> i havent seen anyone use those since trade school
[18:02:44] <Eric_K> some people swear by them
[18:02:48] <danimal_garage> except for extremely large sizes
[18:02:50] <Eric_K> my eyesight is too bad
[18:02:51] <cradek> I use a 12" all the time
[18:03:04] <cradek> I'm too cheap to buy a decent 12" dial
[18:03:07] <tarzan> me too
[18:03:08] <Eric_K> I used one the other day, no issues
[18:03:14] <danimal_garage> i dont even like dials
[18:03:32] <Eric_K> danimal_garage: seconded
[18:03:41] <danimal_garage> i use mitutoyo digitals
[18:03:50] <tarzan> chinese here
[18:03:58] <cradek> I like dials the best. I have a good b&s 6" that has never wronged me
[18:04:15] <danimal_garage> i'm not clean enough for dial calipers
[18:04:18] <Eric_K> I've only wronged myself
[18:04:33] <danimal_garage> i usually get some sort of crud in there and it jumps on me
[18:04:35] <Eric_K> verniers and dials require actual thinking
[18:04:38] <cradek> this one, best there is IMO: http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1350#
[18:05:03] <Eric_K> didn't know they still existed
[18:05:04] <danimal_garage> micrometers require thinking too
[18:05:30] <cradek> I use the b&s 100 times for each time I use a micrometer...
[18:05:32] <danimal_garage> i got a set of those cradek
[18:05:41] <danimal_garage> somewhere
[18:05:49] <cradek> (and yeah I am much more likely to screw up reading the micrometer)
[18:05:56] <danimal_garage> they're pretty beat though, i use them for scribing
[18:06:02] <cradek> ack
[18:06:14] <Eric_K> sharpened the depth guage?
[18:06:19] <danimal_garage> they were dropped one time too many
[18:06:31] <danimal_garage> not good enough for actual measuring
[18:07:03] <danimal_garage> they were really nice when new though
[18:07:04] <cradek> does a digital caliper survive a drop?
[18:07:08] <danimal_garage> yes
[18:07:16] <cradek> that's a nice advantage then
[18:07:28] <danimal_garage> i've had the same pair for about 12 years
[18:07:39] <danimal_garage> and they've been through the war
[18:08:12] <danimal_garage> tips are getting worn now
[18:08:24] <danimal_garage> time to replace i guess
[18:10:33] <dmess> hi all
[18:14:33] <danimal_garage> cradek: i lost mine in my garage that was prone to flooding when i lived back east. I found them under my bench frozen in the ice under my workbench. They had probably been there for 1-2 months. Still worked fine after they defrosted and dried out
[18:17:14] <danimal_garage> must be 440-c or something, they never rusted
[18:24:12] <krushia_> krushia_ is now known as krushia
[18:41:50] <skunkworks> my first caliper was varnier.. Now I only touch the 4ft'er.. :)
[18:43:08] <skunkworks> I am the same as far as calipers go. I use my digital 99% of the time and micrometers for the last .003" if it has to be that accurite.
[18:43:39] <danimal_garage> yea same here
[18:43:49] <danimal_garage> cant go wrong with decent digitals
[18:44:29] <skunkworks> even cheap ones are pretty decent. ;)
[18:45:03] <danimal_garage> i've only had to calibrate mine maybe a few times in the past 12 years, and i suspect a couple of those times was because some douche who barrowed them tried zeroing them out with dirt on the blades
[18:46:00] <danimal_garage> cheap ones have a bit of flex.. i never go cheaper than mitutoyo. I guess maybe the fowlers are ok, but still..
[18:46:38] <danimal_garage> the chineese ones change quite a bit of you squeeze a little hard
[18:46:59] <skunkworks> I zero mine all the time. It works nice for lets say turning a shaft. zero it to the size you are shooting for. Then you know How much you need to take off.
[18:48:12] <danimal_garage> yea i do that too, but mine have a zero button and an orgin button. The orgin button is what you use to calibrate them
[18:48:56] <danimal_garage> the zero button is only active till you turn them off and on
[18:49:05] <danimal_garage> then it goes back to orgin
[18:49:17] <danimal_garage> so you never loose your original calibration
[18:49:30] <skunkworks> ah - Mine are not that complicated. ;)
[18:50:11] <danimal_garage> it's a pretty handy feature
[18:50:32] <danimal_garage> incramental mode
[18:51:46] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG
[18:51:50] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:52:22] <danimal_garage> lol
[18:55:04] <danimal_garage> ok i'm off to get rocks for the front yard.. adios
[19:36:09] <tlab> anyone know why my SMP kernel wouldn't show two cpu's?
[19:36:51] <cradek> do you have two cpus?
[19:37:25] <cradek> if so, do you have the right acpi options enabled to bring up the second cpu?
[19:38:38] <tlab> hmm I think I have all the acpi disabled
[19:38:57] <cradek> I think I needed some of it on my dual P3
[19:39:32] <tlab> I had it working at one time.. with hyperthreading but I've disable hyperthreading
[19:39:57] <skunkworks> can you use some of the premade experimental smp kernels?
[19:40:07] <tlab> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_With_Custom_Kernel I use this guide... but my .config is messed up
[19:40:17] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/experimental/
[19:40:25] <tlab> I have the newest emc install... I guess I could downgrade emc
[19:41:05] <cradek> if you disabled hyperthreading maybe you only have one processor
[19:41:14] <cradek> it depends on your machine
[19:42:49] <tlab> I read some where that hyperthreading doesn't help emc
[19:42:54] <tlab> and to disable it
[19:43:02] <tlab> but ya I dunno for sure
[19:55:02] <tarzan> costly vernier not needed
[19:55:53] <tarzan> since many times grinding finish will work
[19:56:34] <tarzan> only needed for these grinding finish
[19:57:36] <tarzan> also you can translate measure from a micrometer, gauge to a chinese
[20:14:35] <tlab0> that experimental smp kernel, etc doesn't support all my memory ugh..
[20:32:10] <dave_1> way OT but does anyone know why a gnuplot should flash on the screen and then go awan?
[20:32:30] <dave_1> gnuplot 4.2 patchlevel 2
[20:33:23] <cradek> -persist lets plot windows survive after main gnuplot program exits.
[20:33:38] <dave_1> certainly worth a try
[20:40:13] <dave_1> Ah much better :-)
[20:45:04] <terrylm> Hi
[20:46:45] <terrylm> Anyone know how to round a float? Like make 0.9999999 become 1 instead of 0 when seen from classicladder.
[20:47:02] <andypugh> Add 0.5
[20:47:27] <cradek> yes, and think carefully about negative numbers before you do that
[20:47:27] <terrylm> OH, of course...
[20:47:38] <terrylm> oh
[20:49:01] <terrylm> I need stepgen.n.position-fb rounded and feed into classicladder as an IFn.
[20:49:43] <terrylm> So the adding would have to occure outside of cl.
[20:50:25] <cradek> if you don't need much resolution, you could use a lesser scale divisor, and then round/scale in integer space once inside CL
[20:50:40] <cradek> like instead of having each tool position be 1.0 position apart, make it 10.0 or 100.0
[20:51:05] <cradek> then inside CL you can (...+5)%10 or whatever
[20:59:23] <terrylm> That might work.
[21:00:24] <andypugh> I won those iBE drives on eBay, but when I collected them, they were not iBE. They were plain ordinary BE series brushless motors with gearheads, and NEMA 16 frame size. I am disappointed, but glad I went to collect rather than have them arrive through the post in a surprisingly small box.
[21:00:52] <andypugh> Very nice little motors, with the emphasis on "little"
[21:02:50] <terrylm> In emc 2.3.4, is there no math function that can be used in the hal file to do things like rounding and adding?
[21:03:41] <andypugh> Adding yes, and also float to int
[21:08:46] <terrylm> the float to int truncation...
[21:09:02] <terrylm> the float to int uses truncation...
[21:09:50] <terrylm> so how does one add, say 0.5 to the output of stepgen.n.position-fb?
[21:12:44] <skunkworks> offset?
[21:13:19] <skunkworks> sum?
[21:14:35] <andypugh> setp sum2.in0 0.5 ; net stepgen.n.position-fb => sum2.in1 ;
[21:15:26] <andypugh> (actually, depending on how many sum2 blocks you have, it will be sum2.0.in0 or sum2.1.in0 etc)
[21:18:48] <andypugh> This weekend I will be mainly making the head of my mill tilt.
[21:19:16] <andypugh> One fun job will be making the curved T-nuts.
[21:20:15] <andypugh> (The plan is approximately to add two discs and a pivot between the dovetail casting and the gear housing)
[21:25:06] <terrylm> Thanks, I was looking for something called 'ad', 'math', or something, and did not even notice 'sum' in the list of components...
[21:26:10] <terrylm> setp can be used to set the value of an input pin?
[21:32:15] <terrylm> Or did I not understand the part about 'setp sum2.in0 0.5'?
[21:33:53] <skunkworks> the add has two inputs that it sums togather. your setting one as 0.5 and the other is your position-fb. the output from it is going to be fb+0.5
[21:33:59] <skunkworks> *sum
[21:38:57] <terrylm> Ok, thanks.
[21:40:10] <terrylm> I really appreciate the help. I know sometimes my questions might be a bit 'dumb'.
[21:40:38] <terrylm> Well, I got to go now ... Thanks again.
[21:40:59] <andypugh> Yes, setp probably stands for "set pin". You can set them to a constant (and then change that in the HAL config viewer). There is also a "Constant" block but I have not found a use for it yet.
[21:43:01] <andypugh> Can you use "constant" as a variable, to store a result from one HAL cycle to the next?
[21:43:48] <andypugh> I can see that being used in conjunction with a PID block for thinks like closed-loop spindle control.
[21:51:14] <cradek> 'constant' is just a historical artifact - it has no use now
[21:59:16] <andypugh> Like linkpp?
[21:59:33] <cradek> yes
[21:59:39] <andypugh> I remain a bit confused by HAL in general.
[22:00:15] <andypugh> What are the signal names for?
[22:00:19] <cradek> in very early days of hal you couldn't setp a pin. if you wanted it to have a value, it needed a writer. so you'd use a constant component.
[22:00:27] <cradek> andypugh: to tell them apart
[22:02:23] <andypugh> I created a bunch of signals called LED0, LED1 etc net-ed to some spare pins on my 7i43. My idea was I could reference LED0 as a telltale on some other signal in the HAL to watch it. But I don't think it works like that?
[22:03:57] <andypugh> Or does linksp let you do things that "net" doesn't?
[22:05:37] <skunkworks> net does everything linksp does and more. (allowing you to hook multible things together and creating signals)
[22:14:55] <tom3p> andypugh: re: curved tnuts, maybe just make thm rectangular base shorter than the chord, and use a round post not rectangular
[22:15:06] <tom3p> and congrats on the win ( sorry not ime )
[22:15:55] <andypugh> Yeah, I paid a lot more than I wanted to, but I had spent a week plotting what I was going to do with them. I got a refund.
[22:17:11] <tom3p> really the tnuts just shouldnt turn, i have some curved, they are cute, not worth replicating
[22:17:55] <tom3p> the heads on my 2 agie abs tilt +/-45deg
[22:18:31] <tom3p> http://www.elitemachinery.co.uk/toolroom/Agie-AB_M-Spark-Eroder.htm
[22:19:31] <tom3p> nice condition, with istema tooling and fagor dro & scale
[22:21:25] <andypugh> I was going to go for curved nuts as the only material I have is Ali (cast iron would have been a lot better) so want to maximise contact area
[22:26:44] <andypugh> Hmm. http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=21315
[22:26:55] <andypugh> Looks great till you put a rider on top.
[22:27:04] <andypugh> Then it just looks unfortunate.
[22:52:49] <MrSunshine> danielfalck, aye they are
[22:53:13] <MrSunshine> no ballscrews or anything just high friction trapetzoids or whatever they are called
[22:56:16] <WalterN> hmm
[22:57:13] <WalterN> anybody know of a good company to buy stainless pots and pans that are not made by commies?
[22:59:06] <MrSunshine> danielfalck, high friction is a cause of it as i cant move the shafts by hand if the motors stall and i turn them off
[23:03:59] <jt-plasma> All Right Now the weekend is here
[23:04:07] <danielfalck> MrSunshine: wrong daniel
[23:04:20] <MrSunshine> ough
[23:04:28] <MrSunshine> danimal_garage,
[23:04:28] <MrSunshine> =)
[23:04:33] <MrSunshine> sorry danielfalck =)
[23:04:40] <WalterN> heh
[23:04:53] <WalterN> tab-fu not working too well
[23:07:56] <MrSunshine> nop =)
[23:08:01] <MrSunshine> and my memory doesnt serve me well :P
[23:11:02] <danielfalck> np
[23:37:37] <WalterN> interesting
[23:37:57] <WalterN> what is the difference between 304, 316, 18-8, and 18-10 stainless?
[23:39:09] <WalterN> I have worked a lot with 304 and 316, but looking at cooking things, it seems many of them are made of 18-8 or 18-10
[23:39:32] <MrSunshine> WalterN, more acid resistant or something +
[23:39:33] <MrSunshine> ?
[23:39:43] <WalterN> I donno
[23:39:52] <WalterN> 316 I thought was the best for that
[23:44:31] <andypugh> They are different ways of defining the spec.
[23:44:56] <WalterN> ..?
[23:44:57] <andypugh> 304 is ferritic and 316 is austenitic.
[23:45:44] <andypugh> but the 304/316 numbers are a different way of saying the same thing as 18-8 and 18-10
[23:46:01] <andypugh> Like EN24 is 807M30
[23:46:09] <WalterN> so...
[23:46:10] <WalterN> hmm
[23:47:04] <andypugh> Look them up on www.matweb.com
[23:47:25] <andypugh> That gives a lot more info than will fit in an IRC chat.
[23:47:37] <WalterN> is 18-8 and 18-10 more like a class, and 304 falls under 18-8 or 18-10?
[23:47:55] <andypugh> I did 10 years as a post-doc metallurgist and still don't know the diferences without looking it up.
[23:48:06] <WalterN> lol
[23:48:47] <WalterN> just when I get my pots and pans, and decide to distill hydrogen peroxide in it, dont want any reactions going on
[23:49:01] <WalterN> 304 is often used
[23:49:04] <WalterN> or glass
[23:49:52] <andypugh> No, the 308/304/316 is a parallel and different definition scheme to 18-10 etc. 18-10 means 18% chromium, 10% Nickel I think (or the other way round) whereas 316 is a spec that might well mean the same thing, but is on a different standard
[23:50:03] <ds3> if you are distilling hydrogen peroxide, let me know so I can be sure not to be around :D
[23:50:28] <WalterN> ds3: I might make a distiller later on for rocket stuff
[23:50:46] <WalterN> hydrogen peroxide is really good stuff
[23:50:50] <WalterN> one of the best
[23:50:59] <WalterN> only a couple other things are more reactive
[23:51:00] <WalterN> heh
[23:51:29] <ds3> WalterN: while you are at it, whynot boil up a batch of HF ;)
[23:51:38] <WalterN> liquid fluorine is one of them
[23:51:39] <andypugh> Good use for Peroxide: http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/
[23:52:23] <WalterN> andypugh: I would use it for http://tiwake.com/rocket.pdf
[23:54:59] <andypugh> Going back to metallurgy, I was once analysing an industrial process that involved quenching red-hot steel into molten sodium hydroxide. I asked them why they used that, and they said they thought it was because it was cheap. I looked at the specific heats and infra-red transparency numbers and could only find one other thing marginally better. That was a mixture of sodium fluoride, lithium fluoride and potassium fluoride. W
[23:54:59] <andypugh> decided to stick with the caustic soda.
[23:56:50] <andypugh> WalterN: Bloodhound swaps the 3000psi pressure vessel for a V10 engine.