#emc | Logs for 2010-02-09

[00:15:11] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma listens to Jethro Tull...
[00:36:27] <Valen> anybody know any links for a picture of a topographic model machined out of foam?
[00:36:55] <jackc> hm thatd be pretty cool
[00:37:13] <Valen> I thought so
[00:52:48] <ries> Valen: I was planning to do that out of bambo
[00:53:35] <Valen> some sort of laminated thing?
[00:54:23] <ries> Valen: may be in 2 or 3 phases yes
[00:54:43] <ries> you can get DEM's for free and they are high accuracy
[00:54:50] <Valen> http://www.acelasersupply.com/CNC%20topographies.html
[00:55:00] <ries> they are simple hight maps (16 bit grayscale)
[00:55:01] <Valen> something like that was what I was thinking
[00:55:20] <Valen> I have dealt directly with the SRTM data
[00:55:40] <ries> you get get them as grayscale with a resolution of 30m/pixel
[00:55:47] <ries> I was planning to make pne of Ecuador
[00:55:57] <ries> s/pne/one
[00:56:38] <ries> I was planning to use balsa (sorry I said bambo before) because I can get that cheap
[00:56:48] <Valen> ahh that makes more sense
[00:58:50] <ries> I can get balsa here cheaper then foam...
[01:24:00] <WesBaker> I am new to EMC2 and only have a little linux experience. I'm building a CNC controller for an existing router. The router originally had a propriatary PC controller. My question is about the best way to go about implementing the enable for the servo drives. The sample config I have started with for my Mesa 5i20 seems to assume the drives are always enabled or possibly enabled with a single "enable" line. My servo drives require sort of a three wire sta
[01:25:14] <SWPadnos> you were cut off after "My servo drives require sort of a three wire sta"
[01:26:29] <WesBaker> ..."my servo drives require a sort of three wire start stop. To enable, you make a momentary contact closure between A and B. To disable, you break a contact closure between B and C. How would you go about implementing this type of enable?
[01:27:06] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[01:27:34] <SWPadnos> an SPDT relay could do that
[01:27:45] <SWPadnos> A to contact 1, B to center, C to contact 2
[01:28:18] <WesBaker> I'm familiar with ladder. I suppose I could invest a little time in figuring how to get classic ladder to do it. I don't think the SPDT would work due to the timeing being simultaneous.
[01:28:27] <SWPadnos> but there may be too much of a delay between A-B breaking and B-C making contact
[01:29:04] <SWPadnos> ladder could do it, and there are also HAL components that can do edge detect and energize separate relays for a certain amount of time on rising edge and falling edge of the enable
[01:29:26] <WesBaker> Yes, i think you must have AB closed and BC closed together for a few miliseconds at least.
[01:29:35] <SWPadnos> I think two relays (per servo, or use 3 pole relays) are required, no matter how the internal logic works
[01:29:39] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[01:29:52] <WesBaker> OK, tell me about the HAL components that can trigger signals for times on the edge detections. Perfect!
[01:30:46] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/
[01:31:01] <SWPadnos> there's a section on "Realtime components and kernel modules"
[01:31:23] <SWPadnos> edge is the one that does edge detect, timedelay is the one that works like a time delay relay
[01:31:34] <SWPadnos> or oneshot
[01:31:59] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe only oneshot - timedelay is the opposite
[01:32:16] <WesBaker> I'm looking in the docs now.
[01:32:43] <SWPadnos> oh. edge has its own timed output, so you can just use that
[01:33:08] <SWPadnos> you'd use two, one set to detect rising edges, the other for falling edges
[01:33:53] <SWPadnos> both inputs get connected to axis.0.enable-out (I think - check the spelling)
[01:34:11] <SWPadnos> one output goes to a NC relay, the other to an NO relay, which go to the drive(s)
[01:34:40] <WesBaker> I'm looking for something called "edge". The section I am in only talks about the siggen, encoder, pwm, etc functions. I don't see anything about edge or timer.
[01:35:17] <SWPadnos> the page I linked to has a section on realtime components - don't follow the link that's labeled realtime components :)
[01:35:28] <SWPadnos> it's about 80% down the page
[01:35:30] <WesBaker> I follow what you are saying perfectly. Just trying to find out how I create an "edge" object and tie it's function to something to get it executed.
[01:35:51] <SWPadnos> ah, read in the integrators guide, there should be a HAL tutorial
[01:36:26] <SWPadnos> or look through the links in the HAL section of that docs page
[01:36:53] <SWPadnos> here's a good one: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/hal_hal-examples.html
[01:36:55] <WesBaker> Now I found the edge page
[01:37:13] <WesBaker> I did read the integrator guide. (but only yesterday._ smile)
[01:37:22] <WesBaker> So let me see if I get it.
[01:37:23] <SWPadnos> yeah. that link to realtime components should be renamed, or all of the components should be on that page
[01:37:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:37:27] <WesBaker> I will loadrt edge
[01:37:37] <WesBaker> then I will find a function that makes edge execute
[01:37:44] <WesBaker> I will addf that to my servo_thread
[01:37:57] <WesBaker> once that is set up, the edge code is executing all the time
[01:38:18] <WesBaker> so i have to figure out the syntax of the net thing and point a pin from the enable to the input of the edge
[01:38:20] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:38:40] <SWPadnos> there are a couple of parameters to set
[01:38:41] <WesBaker> then I map the outputs of the edge object to the new gpio pins that I want to physically trip my enables
[01:39:00] <SWPadnos> you can get a lot of help by running halcmd interactively - a lot of this stuff can be done on the fly
[01:39:09] <SWPadnos> exactly, you've got it
[01:39:38] <WesBaker> I played with the interactive command and the scope so I think I am set with your general info to go start playing (er em I mean working)
[01:39:50] <SWPadnos> same thing :)
[01:40:13] <WesBaker> Hey, I'm going to sign out. You gave me enough to work on. I think I can get it from here.
[01:40:20] <WesBaker> Thank you! Thank your~
[01:40:40] <SWPadnos> you're welcome
[03:23:15] <krushia_> krushia_ is now known as krushia
[10:29:36] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[13:31:49] <EbiDK> http://ebidk.blogspot.com/ :)
[13:48:43] <Guest752> Guest752 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:45:38] <cradek> ries: please join emc-devel; we are discussing your patch
[14:45:55] <ries> cradek: will do
[14:49:59] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99073
[14:51:20] <Optic> moo
[14:52:37] <skunkworks_> optic! - how is your laser?
[14:52:43] <Optic> good!
[14:52:45] <Optic> still working well
[14:52:57] <Optic> we still don't have any good CAM software though :(
[14:53:02] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:53:07] <Optic> it's all either $50k or total shit
[14:53:34] <Optic> I was playing with SheetCam but it doesn't work right on any of my computers
[14:53:37] <skunkworks_> can't help you there... have you looked thru all the cam packages on the wiki?
[14:53:47] <Optic> yeah, i look through it every couple of weeks
[14:53:53] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:54:13] <Optic> dxf to gcode paths shouldn't be THAT ahrd
[14:54:20] <Optic> I don't think?
[14:54:42] <Optic> one of our members did a usable svg to gcode converter
[14:55:22] <cradek> skunkworks_: http://willepadnos.net/jmkasunich/vises-1849.jpg
[14:56:12] <skunkworks_> cradek: great! :)
[14:56:22] <skunkworks_> that will help explain it.
[14:56:28] <frysteev> Optic: i thought you were going to entertain the cam route for doing that?
[14:56:54] <Optic> hmmm?
[14:57:02] <frysteev> using cam software,,
[14:57:17] <frysteev> which would also take care of toolhead size and such
[14:58:07] <skunkworks_> didn't someone have a axis filter for dxf to gcode.. I thought it was almost done. Was that micges_work?
[14:58:09] <frysteev> didnt sheetcam accept dxfs as input?
[15:00:28] <micges_work> skunkworks_: almost done ;)
[15:00:38] <skunkworks_> :) thanks micges_work
[15:04:48] <Optic> frysteev: yes but I can't get it to work right on any of my machines
[15:05:08] <Optic> it uses some sort of weird windows video api that requires absolutely perfect device drivers
[15:05:56] <Optic> i haven't tried the linux sheetcam
[15:06:41] <frysteev> hmmm i think linux cam is needed for the lab
[15:06:54] <frysteev> it will also be needed for any future pcb mill
[15:11:53] <cradek> funny - I actually do see nine fixtures there
[15:12:35] <skunkworks_> including the aluminum plate bolted to the table? :)
[15:13:01] <cradek> yep that's obviously a fixture for doing a final outline of the part - you can see the outline and a mounting screw
[15:13:02] <skunkworks_> is that a picture from wichita?
[15:13:20] <cradek> yes
[15:13:35] <skunkworks_> neat
[15:15:01] <Optic> http://kilpatrickaudio.com/?p=striptease this thing was made using our laser
[15:15:23] <Optic> we do ok with it. :)
[15:15:50] <Optic> so was this:
[15:15:51] <Optic> http://aonomus.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/diy-syringe-pump-version-1/
[15:20:14] <skunkworks_> very nice@
[15:22:11] <Optic> emc has been excellent
[15:22:13] <Optic> no trouble at all
[15:22:20] <Optic> it's just the rest of the workflow is a pain :)
[15:22:46] <Optic> 1/4" acrylic cuts nicely at about 4ips
[15:22:49] <Optic> er
[15:22:50] <Optic> 4ipm
[15:22:52] <Optic> :P
[15:23:24] <frysteev> i prefer mm/beer
[15:24:07] <skunkworks_> at the moment it is ft/coffee
[15:25:22] <Optic> that's G102 feed rate mode
[15:27:40] <skunkworks_> have you looked at modifying emc for rastering?
[15:30:34] <Optic> one of our members does rastering with hal-streamer
[15:31:02] <Optic> http://github.com/jedediah/graster
[15:31:06] <skunkworks_> oh - neat. Does it work well?
[15:31:12] <Optic> not bad!
[15:31:20] <Optic> I don't know much about what he's done overall
[15:31:40] <Optic> but he makes gcode that does the movement and then a bitmap file that controls the laser
[15:33:15] <skunkworks_> I didn't know anyone had tried it. that is what is always talked about when someone asks about rasterizing. Cool
[15:35:02] <Optic> yep, it does work
[15:36:37] <frysteev> Optic: http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Graphics/CAD/CAM.html
[15:36:47] <Optic> yes, most are unusable
[15:37:29] <Optic> these were done on our laser
[15:37:29] <Optic> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3444/3979220394_c91fa3a29d.jpg
[15:37:38] <Optic> afaik
[15:38:14] <skunkworks_> wow - neat. Emc can do everything! ;)
[15:39:59] <Optic> it's pretty cool!
[15:44:59] <frysteev> i keep running into mach3 people who dont even know what linux is
[15:45:03] <frysteev> it makes me chuckle
[16:17:26] <MrSunshine> how much power can a ordenary cd writer laser put out? :)
[16:17:27] <tom3p> the new mocca i/f looks nice. but i didnt know what was happening while it loaded the 3D penguin , i thought it had stalled. very nice work!
[16:18:02] <bill2or3> mrsunshine, not enough to do anything useful.
[16:18:21] <bill2or3> dvd writers output a bit more, if you're careful.
[16:18:29] <mozmck_work> MrSunshine: there's a laser faq I think called sams laser faq that tells you that
[16:18:41] <MrSunshine> i was thinking for burning marks etc in wood =)
[16:18:52] <tom3p> and the guy that wrote the halstreamer app also has another google code project for emc2 laser http://github.com/jedediah/hacklab-engraver
[16:18:56] <mozmck_work> http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
[16:21:12] <MrSunshine> maybe should finnish my ordenary mill before planing to make something new :P
[16:22:28] <MrSunshine> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-40W-CO2-LASER-TUBE-CUTTING-ENGRAVING-WATER-COOLED_W0QQitemZ390154831606QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad70a46f6 something like that, is there only needed a power source for it or is something more needed?
[16:23:06] <tom3p> i finally got the pic's pwm to give me 200nS rez reliably, but now the range is a bit limited. the bottom end is 200nSon & 400nSoff, but the top end is only 680uS on and 20uS off. i thought i could get longer periods than just 700uSec (~1200hz) well it may be good enough for copper electrodes, and for sure is good enough for graphite.
[16:24:06] <tarzan> the beloved repairfaq
[16:24:24] <tom3p> 'sams fotofacts'
[16:30:10] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr5U5YlE9Zc
[16:30:19] <MrSunshine> looks like it can be used for surface engraving of some materials =)
[16:30:46] <Optic> drawer glides
[16:30:49] <Optic> clever :)
[16:32:12] <MrSunshine> still, its neat to just be able to engrave stuff like that
[16:32:20] <MrSunshine> should be enough to cut sticker plastic etc? :)
[16:34:37] <bill2or3> black sticker plastic, anyway.
[16:36:43] <MrSunshine> ahh
[16:36:49] <MrSunshine> might not work on white materials? :)
[16:42:28] <MrSunshine> woohaa, 5axis waterjet :=)
[16:42:32] <MrSunshine> sounds dangerous :P
[16:43:13] <bill2or3> yeah, white would be more reflective.
[16:43:39] <bill2or3> although maybe you could "encourage" it by pre-heating the vinyl.
[17:11:11] <JT-Work> anyone know the mounting hole locations for a 7i33 and 7i37? I assumed it would be in the manual but it is not :/
[17:11:50] <cradek> weekend before last I had the same realization, and I just measured them...
[17:12:43] <cradek> seb says pcw already has a 'feature request' to add that information...
[17:14:36] <JT-Work> my cards are at home and I'm not :( and I was laying out the holes for my 6061 plate
[17:15:12] <cradek> we didn't make a program for the ones we mounted, we drilled in mdi - otherwise I could tell you
[17:15:56] <cradek> pretty sure I remember 7i37 is on a .1" grid, but 7i33 was something different and random
[17:18:28] <skunkworks_> 7i33 is 3.7 X 2.2 on center.
[17:18:42] <skunkworks_> I don't have a 7i37 here at the moment
[17:18:43] <JT-Work> skunkworks thanks
[17:19:00] <cradek> skunkworks_: is that the outer four holes?
[17:19:04] <skunkworks_> yes
[17:19:13] <cradek> I think the inner four are the same as the 7i37 but I'm not entirely sure
[17:19:31] <skunkworks_> do you need the inner one?
[17:19:52] <skunkworks_> ones (the ones next to the plugs?)
[17:20:08] <JT-Work> no, I just need the outer ones I assume
[17:20:13] <cradek> this is a cool hack: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/tool%20holders/MVC-003S.jpg
[17:20:53] <JT-Work> that is cool
[17:22:23] <JT-Work> a thought just crossed my mind to stack the 7i37's to save space on the mount plate... any issues I might be overlooking?
[17:22:51] <cradek> are they the ones with the screw terminals?
[17:23:00] <JT-Work> yes the TA versions
[17:23:42] <cradek> not sure if TA is different than T - would you be able to get to the screws?
[17:24:14] <JT-Work> the TA has removable plugs like this picture of the 33 http://www.mesanet.com/graphics/motion/7i33tacolo.png
[17:24:44] <cradek> neat - those are better than the ones I have
[17:25:03] <cradek> of course you can't work the screws if you mount them like you say, right?
[17:25:06] <JT-Work> they told me that they have phased out the T's for TA's
[17:25:32] <cradek> good, the T's connectors kind of sucked
[17:25:45] <JT-Work> no, unless I staggered the mounts...
[17:26:55] <Danimal-office> 7i33 and 7i37 are the same size and pattern
[17:27:10] <Danimal-office> at least mine are
[17:27:31] <cradek> I bet T, TA, and no-suffix are all different
[17:27:49] <Danimal-office> they dont make t anymore, but possibly
[17:27:57] <cradek> because I know the 33 and 37 we used weekend-before-last were completely different
[17:28:06] <Danimal-office> i have all ta's
[17:28:07] <cradek> one may have been T, the other no-suffix
[17:28:33] <cradek> JT-Work: sounds like you better wait and measure, or maybe pcw will appear and tell you the answer.
[17:28:44] <JT-Work> no-suffix has the 50 header for the I/O too
[17:28:50] <cradek> yep
[17:29:04] <JT-Work> yes, measure twice and drill once :)
[17:29:05] <cradek> I'm sure we had 7i37 no-suffix, and I think 7i33T
[17:29:37] <Danimal-office> i just mounted mine on both the lathe and mill, and the patterns were identical
[17:30:16] <JT-Work> I thought that they were the same footprint
[17:30:40] <Danimal-office> yea at least the ta's i have are
[17:30:49] <Danimal-office> even the 7i42ta was the same
[17:31:10] <JT-Work> I've got all TA's
[17:31:16] <Danimal-office> same heree
[17:31:28] <Danimal-office> we got ours about the same time as well
[17:32:26] <cradek> well I sit corrected
[17:32:45] <Danimal-office> i'd just get some tall standoffs and double stack them if you need the room
[17:33:01] <cradek> maybe we should make a wiki page called 'all you ever wanted to know about mesa mounting dimensions but were afraid to ask'
[17:33:14] <JT-Work> good idea
[17:33:29] <Danimal-office> cradek: well i got a 7i42ta i bought in spring of 09 and it is different
[17:33:49] <Danimal-office> but all my current stuff is the same
[17:34:24] <Danimal-office> they added a 50 pin header to the 7i42 which makes it the same size as the 7i33 and 7i37 now
[17:35:17] <Danimal-office> but all the boards had multiple patters, and they all had at least 1 pattern that matched the others
[17:35:25] <Danimal-office> patterns*
[17:36:47] <Danimal-office> jt-plasma: do you not have your boards yet? thought you did
[17:37:18] <JT-Work> they are at home and I'm at the other shop
[17:37:21] <Danimal-office> ohh
[17:38:02] <Danimal-office> hey i was working on a cycle time counter in ladder the other day, and i had issues with one assignment block always changing a compare block i was using in a different section
[17:38:08] <JT-Work> we do most of the design and assembly and machining at my other brother John's shop and fabrication and now lathe in my shop
[17:38:25] <Danimal-office> i see
[17:39:00] <Danimal-office> whatever parameters i put into the one assignment block always changed the values in the compare block in a different section
[17:39:25] <Danimal-office> and vice versa
[17:39:41] <Danimal-office> any idea what i'm doing wrong?
[17:39:43] <cradek> did you make sure they have different names?
[17:39:46] <JT-Work> that sounds strange
[17:40:08] <JT-Work> I don't have a Linux computer over here so I can't look and see atm
[17:40:11] <Danimal-office> names? i was unaware that you can name them
[17:40:31] <Danimal-office> maybe thats it.
[17:41:05] <cradek> um, I guess it's a number
[17:41:10] <cradek> the top thing in the properties window
[17:42:46] <JT-Work> so in your assignment window you have something like %QW0=5 and the 5 is changing?
[17:43:24] <danimal_garage> cradek: the top window in the asignment parameters is the expression
[17:44:08] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: it changes everything... if it was %QW3=C1.V, it'll put the same thing in the compare block
[17:44:36] <danimal_garage> different sections, different pins, different counters, and it still does it
[17:44:51] <cradek> I was thinking about counters/timers, sorry
[17:45:28] <danimal_garage> no prob
[17:47:15] <danimal_garage> i just dont get it
[17:47:45] <JT-Work> danimal_garage: if you don't get it figured out e-mail the clp file to me and I'll take a look at it when I get home
[17:47:59] <cradek> yeah
[17:48:05] <cradek> I'd look too if you're stuck
[17:48:14] <cradek> sometimes it's hard to run someone else's ladder though
[17:49:15] <danimal_garage> i worked on it for a few hours
[17:49:32] <danimal_garage> all i could do to get it to work was get rid of the hour counter
[17:50:19] <danimal_garage> i think i have enough assignment blocks.. the default is 10, and i have 6 (7 if you count the one that doesnt work
[17:50:21] <danimal_garage> )
[17:54:09] <cradek> oh good idea checking to make sure you have enough of everything
[17:55:46] <danimal_garage> arithmatic expressions are just compare and assignment blocks, right?
[17:56:01] <cradek> compare
[17:56:37] <cradek> I think assignment is the one on the right, compare is on the left
[17:56:44] <danimal_garage> yes
[17:56:45] <cradek> I think math expressions only make sense on the left
[17:57:09] <danimal_garage> i've used math on either side
[17:57:23] <cradek> what does it mean on the right?
[17:58:22] <cradek> I think they're called COMPARE and ASSIGN
[17:58:28] <danimal_garage> yes
[17:58:54] <danimal_garage> i have one that is %QW2=QW1-1
[17:58:56] <cradek> to me it makes no sense to ASSIGN anything but an expression involving =
[17:59:06] <cradek> ok I can see that
[17:59:07] <JT-Work> compare is the = and assign is > on the editor
[17:59:18] <cradek> other way around
[17:59:31] <JT-Work> yep
[17:59:49] <danimal_garage> compare is an input, assignment is an output
[17:59:51] <JT-Work> I should not have so many windows open on all these monitors :)
[18:01:18] <JT-Work> yep
[18:04:01] <danimal_garage> but as far as arithmetic expressions.... there's something in HAL in the classicladder line that says numrungs=## numsections=## numarithmexpr=## etc........ what is considered an arithmetic expression, just compare and assignment blocks, right?
[18:04:25] <danimal_garage> (trying to make sure i have enough)
[18:04:48] <cradek> man classicladder says [numArithmExpr=N]
[18:05:04] <cradek> (but I have no idea if the manpage is up to date)
[18:05:39] <danimal_garage> yea, i'm typing from memory
[18:05:52] <danimal_garage> figured you'd know what i was refering to
[18:06:34] <cradek> it has numSymbols too; I don't know what that means
[18:07:34] <danimal_garage> yea
[18:08:04] <danimal_garage> the classicladder section of the integrator's manual isnt too in-depth
[18:08:26] <JT-Work> no info in the manual on the ones that are not intuitive
[18:08:30] <JT-Work> just looking now
[18:13:28] <danimal_garage> the cycle time counter works pretty well though
[18:14:02] <danimal_garage> i just wanna spruce up the pyvcp stuff a little
[18:14:32] <danimal_garage> i also wanna add a total run time timer and a parts counter as well
[18:14:47] <danimal_garage> usefull for mass production
[19:01:54] <skunkworks_> so... would uvw be referenced to the tool? like if a tool was pointed in an odd direction because of a xyzabc location - you could say drill along w which would be along the tool? (if kins are setup correctly)
[19:06:22] <jackc> thats sick
[19:22:58] <cradek> skunkworks_: sure, you can do that
[19:23:15] <cradek> you can even switch to G17.1 and use G83 to peck drill along W
[19:29:35] <cradek> you have plenty of axes to use however you want - I think putting one in the direction the tool's pointing is a very useful thing to do - and necessary if you want to use tool length offsets.
[19:39:10] <skunkworks_> wow
[19:43:51] <JT-Work> well if you let crappy orange wine sit for 5 or 6 years it tastes good now
[20:25:55] <cradek> ha! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/R8_drill.jpg
[20:26:32] <cradek> apparently you can turn MT4 into R8
[20:26:53] <JT-Work> cradek: how do you come up with this stuff?
[20:27:09] <cradek> surf surf surf
[20:29:52] <archivist> that site is not far from here, hard getting him to convert to emc
[20:30:41] <archivist> I shall keep trying though :)
[20:31:49] <archivist> but a nice idea, we have been chucking drills that size these last few days
[20:42:28] <Eric_K> you'd think you could buy such a thing
[20:42:44] <Eric_K> bits that big are usually morse taper
[21:07:44] <skunkworks_> oops http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/X2%20coupling.jpg
[21:08:47] <andypugh> I might not be a qualified engineer, but I reckon that is broken.
[21:09:14] <archivist> so is the pozidrive on the lower left
[21:09:43] <skunkworks_> heh
[21:09:54] <skunkworks_> breaking shit left and right
[21:09:56] <Ralafe> What is it we
[21:09:59] <Ralafe> 're looking at?
[21:10:52] <andypugh> It's a beam-type flex-coupling.
[21:11:00] <cradek> was
[21:11:10] <andypugh> Or, more accurately, an Ex-coupling.
[21:12:36] <Ralafe> Ah, okay
[21:13:47] <cradek> skunkworks_: do you know of a high power version of that? like for a big servo?
[21:15:01] <cradek> 1:1 belt I suppose
[21:15:23] <archivist> this one is for jt-plasma http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/british%20steel.jpg
[21:15:51] <JT-Work> LOL
[21:16:24] <andypugh> cradek: How high a power do you want?
[21:16:27] <skunkworks_> the large servos we had where hard coupled to the leadscrews
[21:16:34] <skunkworks_> *have
[21:16:46] <skunkworks_> 1.25 shaft
[21:18:25] <andypugh> http://www.ondrives.com/couplings-gear-couplings-0-125mm-bores-10-2500nm.html
[21:18:42] <andypugh> Up to 2500Nm
[21:19:05] <andypugh> Eeek! I just saw the price.
[21:20:13] <andypugh> Perhaps one of these?
[21:20:14] <andypugh> http://tsubaki.com.au/pages/PTUC/roller_chain_coupling.htm
[21:20:26] <skunkworks_> http://www.couplingtips.com/servo-couplings/high-torque-servo-couplings/
[21:20:47] <Optic> wow
[21:20:52] <Optic> there really is a web site for everything
[21:20:54] <skunkworks_> I would guess - very expensive.
[21:23:04] <cradek> skunkworks_: I don't have numbers so I guess I don't know
[21:23:11] <andypugh> Here they are with prices:
[21:23:13] <andypugh> http://www.ondrives.com/couplings-bellows-couplings-10-90mm-bores-18-5000nm.html
[21:23:15] <skunkworks_> we have some couplers that have 2 sets of laminated shimstock between the ends. I would think that would handle higher torque
[21:23:17] <cradek> this one is hard coupled - but I think something somewhere is slightly bent
[21:23:41] <cradek> eek
[21:24:11] <andypugh> There is a reason that my machine has everything driven by toothed belts :-)
[21:25:46] <skunkworks_> is this on the jr?
[21:26:11] <cradek> yes
[21:27:06] <andypugh> Perhaps raid the scrapyard for the driveshafts from a FWD car?
[21:27:24] <archivist> they have play
[21:27:37] <cradek> yeah I wondered about that, or regular old U joints
[21:27:48] <cradek> but I'm sure they do have play in them
[21:28:36] <andypugh> Not a lot, as that causes clonking noises. Bane of my life are clonking noises. (Not this week though, this week it's combustion noise)
[21:28:56] <archivist> I have some couplings here that could be home made
[21:29:33] <andypugh> That was the way I was going.
[21:30:42] <andypugh> One simple coupling is two discs with two pins at 180 degrees, and a steel plate with 4 holes. An alternative (and equivalent) arrangement replaces the disc with a number of spring-steel beams.
[21:31:11] <skunkworks_> cradek: can you remove the coupling and indicate for eccentricity(sp)?
[21:31:30] <cradek> skunkworks_: I think it's the motor shaft, actually
[21:32:08] <andypugh> Maybe make a Layrub coupling? (As used on the drive shaft of the Jowett Javelin)
[21:32:11] <andypugh> http://www.twiflex.com/brochure/products/couplings/overview/layrub.php
[21:32:14] <cradek> andypugh: I'm having a hard time picturing that
[21:34:24] <frallzor> hmmm
[21:34:28] <archivist> they are rubber bushes ,steel inner bush in each bush, two flanges with studs engage
[21:34:35] <frallzor> anyone know if there is some odd holiday in Poland atm?
[21:36:52] <andypugh> cradek: A home-made version of this: http://www.gobizkorea.com/blog/ProductView.do?blogid=SYSGM_000000010&id=897850
[21:37:12] <celeron55> frallzor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Poland
[21:37:13] <celeron55> 8)
[21:37:36] <andypugh> (Note that the heads are a very loose clearance in the opposite flange, but do give an emergency drive if the disc fails)
[21:37:38] <frallzor> none... odd, why is UPS screwing me around then....
[21:38:51] <frallzor> usually that distance from me to poland = 1 day to get here and suddenly its delayed
[21:40:15] <archivist> cradek, http://www.huco.com/products.asp?cat=56
[21:41:24] <skunkworks_> yes - that is what I was trying to describe.
[21:41:35] <skunkworks_> (the shimstock discription ;))
[21:42:57] <andypugh> I have seen them with rubber/fibre discs. (used on the drive shafts of Dennis trucks from about 1922 onwards. Before then they used a radiused square steel block in a square hole, adding bronze slippers after about 1910)
[21:43:38] <archivist> Greens rollers used one on the drive shaft
[21:43:52] <archivist> canvas/rubber
[21:46:07] <archivist> was there a 35 size taper?
[21:48:06] <andypugh> BT35 between BT30 and BT40 you mean (or 30/40INT)
[21:48:50] <andypugh> Yes
[21:49:08] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper#NT_40_.28int40.29
[21:49:50] <andypugh> (Before reading that Wiki page, my answer was about to be "No"
[21:51:58] <archivist> was trying a 30 in the adcock and shipley , sloppy fit, and smaller than a 40
[21:53:31] <andypugh> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
[21:53:38] <andypugh> Has dimensions of BT35
[21:54:07] <andypugh> 1.5" at the big end.
[21:54:55] <andypugh> They even have tooling for sale
[21:57:07] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010201.JPG seems the same as a no 1 http://www.lathes.co.uk/adcock&shipleyhorizontal/page3.html
[22:02:23] <Jymmm> Heh, the artwork on the SAW VI dvd is suppose to be a circular saw blade, but it's actually a gear
[22:04:16] <andypugh> Want! http://www.lathes.co.uk/adcock&shipleycombination/index.html
[22:05:13] <Eric_K> anyone have any experience with enco's shipping? They said my order was packed yesterday, but no tracking number yet
[22:09:05] <cradek> it sometimes takes a day or two, but never longer
[22:09:11] <Jymmm> Eric_K: When it shows up at your door, it's been shipped.
[22:09:40] <Eric_K> that's what I'm hoping for, but I got free shipping so they may just wait for gas prices to come back down
[22:10:47] <cradek> if it's shipped, you can get the tracking on their website when you log back in
[22:13:25] <Eric_K> I guess dealing with McMaster has spoiled me
[22:16:38] <Jymmm> I dont get why ppl are like that... If you're so anxious to get something dont mail order it. Instead ppl will hit the refresh every 2.43s - it's almost as bad as a lil kid on a road trip saying ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET?
[22:16:53] <cradek> chill pill?
[22:17:04] <Eric_K> I just wanna hit refresh once and then go about my bidness
[22:17:16] <Jymmm> Eric_K: liar
[22:17:16] <Eric_K> not exactly like I can buy the stuff locally
[22:17:46] <Jymmm> Eric_K: You probably could, just cost an arm and a leg
[22:18:05] <Eric_K> no way, closest source is at least 90 minutes away
[22:18:17] <Jymmm> cradek: you have kids?
[22:18:51] <Eric_K> I bought my son a toy from Burger king that said ARE WE THERE YET? over and over
[22:18:56] <Eric_K> what was I thinking?
[22:18:58] <Jymmm> Eric_K: See, there ya go, 90m instead of 90d
[22:19:08] <Jymmm> Eric_K: lol
[22:19:40] <Jymmm> Eric_K: and you an buy battereies cheap from china, only take 21 days for delivery
[22:19:47] <Jymmm> for the toy
[22:20:01] <Eric_K> it's gone now I think
[22:20:22] <Jymmm> Eric_K: so, in the meantime he will say "ARE THEY HERE YET?" "ARE THEY HERE YET?" "ARE THEY HERE YET?"
[22:20:24] <Eric_K> my wife is good at urging the kids to throw away their old toys
[22:21:16] <Jymmm> But most of the stuff I get from China arrives in 9-11 days
[22:22:10] <Eric_K> when I order from china I'm pretty sanguine about how long it takes
[22:22:45] <Eric_K> the funny thing was when my daughter bought an ipod, watching it travel around the world was pretty entertaining
[22:23:10] <Jymmm> Um, they have those locally btw
[22:23:14] <Eric_K> it only took a couple of days to get here from Singapore
[22:23:48] <Eric_K> I wasn't involved in the purchase, I think it was drop shipped from apple
[22:24:19] <Jymmm> That's ok, iPods are just seriously overpriced
[22:24:36] <tarzan__1> archivist, multi lathe are no good
[22:24:53] <Jymmm> and I hate iTunes
[22:25:11] <Jymmm> and I hate iTunes.com
[22:25:36] <Eric_K> I hate the fact that itunes needs to run in the background, what's up with that?
[22:26:03] <Jymmm> I hate that even for FREE apps, yu MUST have a CC on file with them to even sign up
[22:27:12] <frallzor> I hate UPS
[22:27:21] <Jymmm> you mean Ooooooooops
[22:27:36] <frallzor> for some reason my package is delayde until monday
[22:27:56] <frallzor> when the distance where it is = normal time to get here is 1 day from where it is
[23:10:48] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S955wKsPkqg
[23:16:19] <seb_kuzminsky> alex_joni: looks like they did the same to jst_home's router
[23:18:04] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: probably so
[23:18:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[23:18:40] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:18:49] <seb_kuzminsky> see ya
[23:30:58] <andypugh> I wonder if there is a way to suppress the "jst_home has joined" / "jst_home has left" messages?
[23:31:54] <jt-plasma> with chatzilla you can
[23:31:56] <archivist> you can set your client to ignore quits and joins
[23:32:08] <andypugh> Well, in general I want to see them.
[23:32:14] <archivist> or an op bans the user for a time
[23:33:31] <archivist> jst_home fix your connection please
[23:34:19] <andypugh> I have turned off the noises, that should help me kep my sanity.
[23:35:41] <archivist> I have to decide what should follow me home on Thursday
[23:40:33] <jt-plasma> can someone email me some of the funny standoffs that are 6-32 male and 3mm female like found on some older mobo's
[23:43:16] <andypugh> I have dozens of them in a kit I bought, and have never found a use for them
[23:43:36] <andypugh> But they are too big for my email tube.
[23:43:46] <jt-plasma> darn
[23:44:06] <jt-plasma> hmmm how about the transporter
[23:45:03] <andypugh> I broke it trying to use a 6-32 standoff in an M3 hole.
[23:46:16] <jt-plasma> :P
[23:46:17] <andypugh> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=31262
[23:46:18] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: why do you need those kind of standoffs?
[23:46:29] <jt-plasma> the mesa cards
[23:46:34] <danimal_garage> i just use mobo standoffs
[23:46:41] <andypugh> And can't you just CNC some?
[23:46:46] <danimal_garage> from old puter cases
[23:46:57] <danimal_garage> yea, make some on your cnc lathe lol
[23:47:12] <jt-plasma> LOL they are for my CNC lathe :P
[23:47:17] <danimal_garage> what came first, the chicken or the egg, right?
[23:47:26] <danimal_garage> guess you answered that age old riddle
[23:47:31] <jt-plasma> been through all the old cases and I'm 3 short
[23:47:37] <andypugh> Actually, I think my Mesa card is held on by them, they self-tap quite nicely into MDF.
[23:48:12] <danimal_garage> i got some from the fry's place i got my ribbon cables from
[23:48:27] <danimal_garage> but i'm sure you need them sooner
[23:48:31] <jt-plasma> did they have the 3mm female
[23:48:53] <jt-plasma> I looked at Fry's but they didn't say much about the ones I found
[23:49:05] <danimal_garage> no clue, i just used screws from my computers
[23:49:17] <jt-plasma> if they had them then I'd order some cable as well
[23:49:48] <danimal_garage> i wish jst_home would make up his mind
[23:49:50] <jt-plasma> seems the newer ones use 6-32 for both threads and 6-32 is too big for the mesa holes and others
[23:49:58] <jt-plasma> about what?
[23:50:19] <danimal_garage> entering and leaving the channel 8000000 times
[23:50:33] <danimal_garage> is that you?
[23:50:35] <jt-plasma> oh, I never see that
[23:50:43] <jt-plasma> nope
[23:50:57] <danimal_garage> i just drilled out the mesa boards
[23:51:05] <jt-plasma> LOL
[23:51:05] <andypugh> Every minute, regular as clockwork.
[23:51:36] <danimal_garage> they drilled easy
[23:51:41] <jt-plasma> I'm glad I don't have to see that anymore
[23:51:59] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma tries to do it right first then gets out the camp axe
[23:52:10] <jt-plasma> when all else fails
[23:53:17] <danimal_garage> i dunno, they only had to be opened up a hair
[23:53:23] <danimal_garage> so i just did it
[23:54:02] <danimal_garage> did it on the drill press, holding them by hand up to the drill bit
[23:54:43] <danimal_garage> small enough hole, so there werent any problems with grabbing and spinning the board
[23:56:02] <jt-plasma> it's only about 0.020 small for a 6-32 screw
[23:56:33] <danimal_garage> yea
[23:57:36] <danimal_garage> i say you just go for it. punch them right in the baby maker.
[23:57:39] <jt-plasma> I think I have an old computer left over at Dad's house
[23:58:22] <jt-plasma> I did find a 5 1/4 to 3 1/2 bay adapter that is perfect to mount the hard drive on :)
[23:58:27] <danimal_garage> well if you use 6-32 standoffs, you can get some taller ones so you can stack the mesa boards
[23:58:45] <danimal_garage> cool
[23:58:57] <jt-plasma> I've just about talked my self out of that plan LOL
[23:59:29] <danimal_garage> i just welded up a bracket. i used an old bad harddrive to bolt the brackets to, then welded them to a plate, so it was a perfect fit
[23:59:42] <jt-plasma> cool