#emc | Logs for 2010-01-31

[00:00:08] <Eric_K> andypugh, I got it
[00:00:25] <Valen> So I'm thinking spindles, but i have NFI about them, specifically I want automagic tool change
[00:00:34] <Valen> I can provide the motor
[00:00:52] <Valen> just looking for the spinny bit that holds stuff
[00:00:56] <Valen> any suggestions?
[00:00:58] <Eric_K> there was some activity on cnczone about that
[00:01:12] <Eric_K> and JoeV used to have a toolchanger kit
[00:02:12] <Eric_K> now if I could remember what Joe's last name is, that might be more helpful
[00:02:37] <Eric_K> http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/Automatic_Tool_Changer_Plans.htm
[00:02:39] <Eric_K> vicars
[00:03:02] <Valen> I'm wanting it for decent size stuff
[00:07:13] <andypugh> Steal the Tormach idea?
[00:07:48] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxHBsPyUj4
[00:08:06] <andypugh> No, wait. that's not the one
[00:08:22] <Valen> heh its still pretty cool lol
[00:08:27] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kxw9d6kI7A&feature=related
[00:09:07] <terrylm> Humm, seems I had a brain fart, stepgen works fine, just no seeing it on the other end of the parport cable, used a real O-scope for that, nothing.
[00:09:35] <andypugh> Non-conductive wire?
[00:09:48] <terrylm> So I need to work on that. Maybe, will check.
[00:10:14] <terrylm> Thanks for all the help, bye.
[00:10:22] <archivist> terrylm, par port needs a pull up
[00:10:33] <andypugh> The clever bit on that Tormach thing is the floating cylinder and the Bellville washers
[00:10:34] <terrylm> Oh, maybe!
[00:10:42] <alex_joni> terrylm: try the parport first
[00:10:45] <alex_joni> directly on the PC
[00:10:57] <terrylm> will do.
[00:11:03] <archivist> the centronics spec is open collector
[00:11:04] <alex_joni> night all
[00:11:20] <andypugh> Ah, yes, parport is better at pulling down to earth than pushing up off earth
[00:11:25] <terrylm> good night.
[00:14:11] <andypugh> Interesting data, they reckon 2500lbs of drawbar tension on that system.
[00:16:24] <andypugh> Having said that about parport pull-ups, in general they get wired to opto-coupled driver board inputs, so are pulled-up there anyway?
[00:17:09] <andypugh> Or maybe I just got lucky?
[00:17:15] <archivist> yes, but testing open circuit confuses :)
[00:17:32] <archivist> bit me a week ago
[00:18:16] <andypugh> Hmm, that reminds me. Today I was looking at the input to the motor controller IC on my servo drive board, and the motor speed changed every time I touched the probe to the pin. Which surprised me in x10 mode.
[00:38:10] <Danimal-office> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE8xAXmYv4Q
[00:38:46] <Danimal-office> get one of those, i bet you can score one with a bad logic board for free, and just use classicladder to replace the internal logic
[00:39:34] <Danimal-office> the chain that opens the door pops off if the door hits something, sometimes breaking the circuit boards inside
[00:54:51] <Martinp23> Hi everyone. We've disabled the +S chanmode for the time being. Normally, +S blocks users from joining a channel if they aren't connecting with SSL. If you still see +S in your channel's modelist, it will have *no effect*. For the now, you will be unable to add or remove this mode. We'll have a more permanent resolution asap. We're sorry for the inconvenience caused by our earlier technical difficulties.
[00:55:14] <andypugh> I think that a motorcycle brake caliper would work nicely as the actuator in a power drawbar like that Tormach one, and that a second-hand ABS pump would be a cheap and easy way to source the hydraulic pressure.
[00:57:31] <danimal_garage> my tool holders are threaded, i need a motorized drawbar
[00:58:00] <danimal_garage> there's basically an electric impact gun on the top of mine, with an air cyl that lowers it down
[00:58:24] <andypugh> I have read of quite a few folk doing that
[00:58:25] <danimal_garage> 40 taper tool holders
[00:58:49] <danimal_garage> i didnt do it, that's how the machine came
[00:59:16] <danimal_garage> similar to the kurt power drawbars that you can buy for bridgeports, except mine is electric instead of air
[00:59:52] <andypugh> I assume you can get screw-in adaptors to turn threaded drawbar holders into pull-stud holders?
[01:03:02] <danimal_garage> probably
[01:03:19] <danimal_garage> but then i'd have to change the internals of the spindle
[01:03:58] <andypugh> And doesn't that sound like fun?
[01:04:39] <danimal_garage> yes, tons
[01:08:54] <andypugh> How big is the hole down the middle of the spindle? Only drawbar diameter, or do the drawbars have a centring collar? I have never had the need to look.
[01:09:11] <danimal_garage> dunno
[01:09:40] <andypugh> If if it 1" + then it's an easy-ish mod. If it's 1/2" then it isn't/
[01:10:33] <danimal_garage> 1 inch is still too small
[01:11:29] <andypugh> I think you could fit a pull-stud collet and collet-closer in 1", though more would be better, certianly.
[01:11:29] <danimal_garage> at least that's what she said
[01:11:30] <danimal_garage> :)
[01:12:04] <andypugh> 1" is still quite a big diamond.
[01:52:32] <Valen> I wouldn't mind a 1" diamonf
[01:52:37] <Valen> diamond
[01:54:30] <WalterN> danimal_garage: how is the machining going?
[01:58:05] <danimal_garage> dont know yet
[01:58:39] <WalterN> I thought you started the project?
[02:15:37] <toastydeath> side linux question - has anyone had left clicking not registering in flash
[02:15:48] <toastydeath> debian, firefox, flash 10
[03:15:12] <danimal_garage> that pvc mills nice
[03:20:42] <Valen> yeah
[03:20:44] <Valen> in ubuntu
[03:20:53] <Valen> theres something to do with gtk or some such?
[03:39:22] <WalterN> danimal_garage: what RPM are you using?
[03:39:47] <WalterN> for that 3/4" endmill
[03:45:23] <danimal_garage> started with 400
[03:45:29] <danimal_garage> but i'll experiment
[03:46:03] <danimal_garage> 8ipm, .5" DOC
[03:46:43] <WalterN> ok
[03:46:53] <WalterN> just wondering
[03:59:49] <danimal_garage> i doubled it, still seems to cut good
[04:06:13] <WalterN> yeah
[04:06:47] <danimal_garage> trippled it
[04:07:07] <WalterN> at 400RPM, and the material clamped down good, I suspect you could...
[04:07:09] <WalterN> ^^yeah
[04:07:11] <WalterN> heh
[04:07:31] <WalterN> 20-30IPM
[04:07:39] <danimal_garage> it's in a 3 jaw chuck with soft jaws
[04:07:57] <WalterN> in the mill?
[04:08:09] <danimal_garage> yes
[04:09:23] <danimal_garage> 1050rpm and 25ipm
[04:10:19] <danimal_garage> round within .002"
[04:10:30] <danimal_garage> good enough for the roughing op
[04:11:02] <danimal_garage> just gotta blow some air on it when it plunges
[04:11:22] <WalterN> oh, so its a CNC mill?
[04:11:28] <danimal_garage> yes
[04:11:43] <WalterN> makes things easier :)
[04:11:52] <danimal_garage> sometimes
[04:12:05] <danimal_garage> still prefer my trusty old bridgeport when i can
[04:12:47] <WalterN> agreed
[04:12:59] <danimal_garage> i'm gunna fill up a couple trash cans with these chips
[04:13:09] <WalterN> at least
[04:13:10] <WalterN> heh
[04:13:30] <danimal_garage> 3" deep pocket, 3.6" in diameter
[04:13:43] <danimal_garage> 1" boss in the center
[04:13:49] <danimal_garage> approx
[04:14:23] <WalterN> starting with 4" material
[04:14:35] <WalterN> what kind of CNC mill do you have?
[04:14:48] <danimal_garage> shizuoka an-s
[04:16:34] <danimal_garage> hmm if the finish lathe op goes ok, i actually quoted this pretty damn close
[04:16:39] <danimal_garage> finally
[04:16:45] <WalterN> heh
[04:17:12] <danimal_garage> about 12 minutes to hog all that out
[04:17:21] <WalterN> nice, that mill looks almost exactly like the one I got to use for 4 years at the other shop
[04:17:34] <WalterN> with a bandit controller
[04:17:39] <danimal_garage> there's a ton of them out there
[04:17:43] <danimal_garage> yea this had a bandit
[04:17:51] <danimal_garage> now its emc
[04:18:12] <WalterN> feels like the first transistor mill ever made... lol
[04:18:34] <danimal_garage> there's a smaller version of mine as well, i think it's an st-n or somethnig
[04:18:36] <WalterN> with the bandit controller
[04:18:44] <danimal_garage> ha
[04:18:49] <danimal_garage> my lathe beat that
[04:19:00] <danimal_garage> 1978
[04:19:33] <danimal_garage> it had tubes for the led's in the display
[04:19:35] <WalterN> there is a guy that was down the road where I used to live... he had a machine that he got to program by moving pins around :-]
[04:20:02] <danimal_garage> ha
[04:20:23] <danimal_garage> my surface grinder is the only iron i have that isnt older than i am
[04:20:24] <Eric_K> my first cnc program was made with paper tape
[04:20:38] <danimal_garage> and even that is only 3 years younger
[04:20:58] <Eric_K> if you made a mistake and were lucky, you could punch extra holes
[04:21:02] <WalterN> he used it to rough out a bunch of crimping dies that he makes for some big power company
[04:21:04] <Eric_K> otherwise you had to splice
[04:21:53] <Eric_K> how did the pin thing work?
[04:22:15] <WalterN> it was actually kinda cool
[04:22:22] <WalterN> the pins were in the back
[04:22:26] <WalterN> (this is a lathe)
[04:22:35] <WalterN> and the turret
[04:22:54] <WalterN> when it indexed, also indexed the pins in the back
[04:23:06] <WalterN> I think it had 6-7 tools or something
[04:23:09] <WalterN> maybe 5
[04:23:12] <Eric_K> was it g-code?
[04:23:24] <WalterN> ...with pins?
[04:23:28] <Eric_K> yes
[04:23:37] <Eric_K> the paper tape was g-code
[04:23:42] <Eric_K> and it was holes
[04:23:52] <WalterN> hmm
[04:24:16] <Eric_K> just trying to think how a pin would let you cut 3.374" diameter
[04:24:36] <danimal_garage> abacus
[04:24:43] <WalterN> heh
[04:24:56] <WalterN> I didnt look too closely at how the pins actually worked
[04:25:24] <WalterN> hmm
[04:25:32] <WalterN> the turning tools were seperate
[04:25:51] <WalterN> two OD turning tools
[04:26:03] <WalterN> mounted on the base of the machine inside
[04:26:55] <WalterN> I dont think the turret could be moved in the X direction
[04:27:14] <Eric_K> funny if people look back at what we are doing with the same sort of wonder
[04:27:52] <WalterN> then used a slightly newer machine with a high tech monochrome CRT
[04:27:54] <WalterN> erm
[04:28:11] <danimal_garage> 1600rpm and 37ipm
[04:28:59] <Eric_K> it's too cold in the garage to make bike frames
[04:29:04] <WalterN> he used a slightly newer machine with a high tech monochrome CRT screen and awesome power of 1980's transistors to finish the die
[04:31:35] <WalterN> meh, I start graveyard shift tomorrow :/
[04:32:00] <WalterN> its going to be a long night tonight
[04:32:28] <danimal_garage> i've slowly migrated myself to second shift
[04:32:31] <WalterN> got a 2ltr bottle of mountain dew for just that
[04:34:07] <WalterN> though it comes with $1.40/hour more, so I'm alright with that
[04:34:11] <danimal_garage> glad i bored these jaws, this thing wouldnt be cutting like this if i didnt
[04:58:55] <danimal_garage> wooo 54ipm
[04:59:27] <WalterN> sounds like a blast over there... :-)
[05:00:24] <danimal_garage> it's cutting great
[05:00:31] <Valen> plastic?
[05:00:35] <danimal_garage> pvc
[05:00:40] <danimal_garage> 2000rpm
[05:01:09] <Valen> freaked a guy looking at our mill out
[05:01:30] <Valen> just wrote a g3 into the MDI window and told it to run at 6000mm/m
[05:01:35] <Valen> 236ipm
[05:02:34] <Valen> in air of course
[05:02:35] <danimal_garage> nice
[05:02:41] <danimal_garage> thats quick
[05:02:44] <Valen> was just showing off ;->
[05:02:55] <danimal_garage> whats max?
[05:03:02] <Valen> its what I've got machine max set at atm
[05:03:12] <Valen> it'll probably do ~double that
[05:04:04] <Valen> more If i can get another power supply
[05:04:08] <Valen> need more volts ;->
[05:04:13] <Valen> anyway time to walk the dogs
[05:04:16] <Valen> back later
[05:04:41] <danimal_garage> nice
[05:04:43] <danimal_garage> adios
[05:06:16] <skunkworks> what is a good company to get timing pullys and such?
[05:07:08] <danimal_garage> ford?
[05:07:15] <danimal_garage> lol
[05:07:23] <danimal_garage> i dunno, good question
[05:07:34] <Eric_K> I've always bought mine from McMaster
[09:17:55] <Valen> small parts.com or something?
[14:48:01] <valen_mobile> hah cool
[14:48:43] <valen_mobile> now i can chat with 20 older gentlemen while i"m in bed
[14:48:59] <archivist> pervert !!!
[14:49:12] <valen_mobile> hmm now that i say it, it sounds less good
[14:49:19] <valen_mobile> fresh!
[14:49:27] <WalterN> nasty
[14:49:35] <WalterN> I need to take a shower now just thinking about it
[14:49:57] <valen_mobile> all that luke warm water huh
[14:50:07] <archivist> time we had some young wenches :)
[14:50:09] <valen_mobile> sup archivist
[14:50:35] <WalterN> no, not a bath, quick shower to get the nastyness off :P
[14:50:39] <valen_mobile> i have a nekked one of those in the bed too does tthat make it ok?
[14:50:59] <valen_mobile> she is reading her book though
[14:51:19] <valen_mobile> so probably best not to disturb her
[14:51:52] <valen_mobile> (hence me installing an irc client on my phone for something to do)
[14:51:58] <WalterN> heh
[14:52:07] <WalterN> I want to get the nokia N900 sometime
[14:52:21] <WalterN> relatively soon
[14:52:33] <valen_mobile> got a htc touch pro 2 here
[14:52:44] <WalterN> nice
[14:52:45] <valen_mobile> has a real ish keyboard
[14:52:50] <WalterN> yeah
[14:53:07] <valen_mobile> whats the n900 like?
[14:53:07] <WalterN> have you tried any bluetooth keyboards?
[14:53:29] <valen_mobile> no this one is big enough ti do this on
[14:53:33] <WalterN> donno... never used the N900, or for that matter, any other cellphone
[14:53:47] <valen_mobile> seems fast enoungh for me
[14:54:06] <valen_mobile> why not a n97 or iphone?
[14:56:29] <valen_mobile> anyway lights out time
[14:56:34] <valen_mobile> night all
[14:59:54] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Yo
[14:59:59] <SWPLinux> hoya
[15:00:01] <SWPLinux> err
[15:00:02] <SWPLinux> hiya
[15:00:16] <SWPLinux> how's the weather up north?
[15:00:47] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: eh, dark clouds, 43ish
[15:00:53] <SWPLinux> hmmm
[15:01:09] <Jymmm> that was at 8pm last night
[15:01:11] <SWPLinux> not much better here. 47 degrees
[15:01:30] <Jymmm> grammys today?
[15:01:32] <SWPLinux> the weather channel says sunny, but there's a haze when I look out the window
[15:03:22] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: So, you setup for tonight already?
[15:03:30] <SWPLinux> pretty much
[15:03:45] <SWPLinux> we left the equipment out last night, so we'll see how good an idea that was :)
[15:04:03] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: hair dryers, lots of hair dryers
[15:04:14] <SWPLinux> or 10000 watts of lighting ...
[15:04:26] <frallzor> a campfire med out of equipment
[15:04:29] <frallzor> *made
[15:04:37] <Jymmm> they have that mch security to leave $100K of gear outside?
[15:04:43] <Jymmm> much
[15:04:51] <SWPLinux> oh yeah
[15:05:05] <SWPLinux> and it's more than 100k of our stuff, then there's all the other stuff
[15:05:55] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: DUDE, you *HAVE* to get Lady Gaga
[15:07:06] <SWPLinux> she's expected to show up
[15:07:22] <Jymmm> Hope so, she's a nomine
[15:07:23] <Jymmm> e
[15:07:40] <SWPLinux> I don't think she's pre-booked for our rig, so it's up to her and her "handlers"
[15:08:21] <Jymmm> make a big ass sign "open invitation for Lady Gaga" and hold it up
[15:08:23] <SWPLinux> this time, Jay Emmanuel is set up right next to us (he's the fashion guy on the E! channel I guess)
[15:08:25] <SWPLinux> heh
[15:08:53] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Oh nice, you actually might be able to, as she was on an E! tv series
[15:09:13] <SWPLinux> oh, didn't know that
[15:09:34] <SWPLinux> this time we're handing out flash drives to the people as they leave, if they want them
[15:09:43] <SWPLinux> with the little movie of them spinning
[15:10:14] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Cool, I expect my email's 4m after
[15:10:19] <SWPLinux> heh
[15:10:27] <SWPLinux> sadly, I don't have internet access onsite
[15:10:52] <SWPLinux> though I suppose I could bring up the backup DSL line and hook up my laptop
[15:12:45] <Jymmm> I can wait, you'll have too much on your hands as it is
[15:13:01] <SWPLinux> yep
[15:14:14] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: We going to see you on tv tonight?
[15:14:21] <SWPLinux> unlikely
[15:15:05] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Oh, I got my EC34 Serial card - nice!
[15:15:13] <SWPLinux> cool
[15:16:08] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: I totally forgot that my MBP has a EC34 slot, plugged it in and there it is
[15:16:48] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: MacBook Pro
[15:17:20] <SWPLinux> yeah - got it :)
[15:18:27] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Found out that VMWare Fusion does NOT support PHYSICAL serial ports, only virtual file based.
[15:19:11] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: so you have to dual boot into XP/whatever, but I'm going to check out VirtualBox sometime.
[15:32:24] <andypugh> Jymmm: That might not be necessary, as the physical serial port might appear as a file in the Mac OS.
[15:33:03] <bevins> hi andy
[15:33:43] <andypugh> My USB-Serial convertor is a virtual file in /dev/
[15:34:24] <andypugh> And writing HP-GL to that file operates the flatbed plotter
[15:34:40] <andypugh> Hi bevins.
[15:35:32] <bevins> What is scrollkeeper-update up and why is it taking 95 of my cpu lol
[15:36:39] <bevins> Can anyone see this
[15:36:45] <bevins> did they fix itÉ
[15:37:25] <andypugh> Yes, we can see you.
[15:37:36] <bevins> hehe
[15:40:16] <bevins> Ima do a apt-get remove scrollkeeper-update
[15:40:28] <bevins> is this kosher
[15:41:29] <bevins> I cant have it starting when I am cutting something
[15:42:03] <SWPLinux> apparently, there's a lot that depends on scrollkeeper, like ubuntu-desktop
[15:42:12] <andypugh> I can see the worry, but rtai should always get enough CPU to run.
[15:42:56] <SWPLinux> this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=578472
[15:43:07] <SWPLinux> says you can replace scrollkeeper with "rarian"
[15:43:34] <SWPLinux> the thing to do is run the latency test, and leave it running while scrollkeeper is doing its update
[15:43:49] <SWPLinux> see if the latency spikes (possible, due to disk driver activity)
[15:43:54] <SWPLinux> if not, then don't worry about it
[15:43:59] <SWPLinux> if so, get rid of it
[15:49:33] <bevins> andy, I am working on auto homing the dual motor gantry
[15:55:17] <andypugh> I have been thinking about that some more.
[15:55:34] <andypugh> But you probably need to talk to people who have already done it.
[15:56:42] <bevins> I can find anybody....lol
[15:57:04] <andypugh> My idea of having the "home" hal-pin through an AND block, but switching off the individual stepgens as they hit their own switch is probably unsubtle, as it allows no decell time.
[15:57:23] <SWPLinux> that phase of homing shouldn't be very fast
[15:57:24] <andypugh> I think I heard that SWP had done it.
[15:57:48] <SWPLinux> you could run the stepgen velocity through a limit block while homing
[15:57:54] <SWPLinux> har har
[16:01:24] <andypugh> So, run the velocity of each stepgen through a limit2 on velocity (or a limit3 on position?) http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/limit2.9.html
[16:02:19] <SWPLinux> hmmm. no, that may not work
[16:02:44] <SWPLinux> it's actually a position input to the stepgen, and it does its own accel internally
[16:03:13] <andypugh> Also, the home sequence is different, isn't it?
[16:03:52] <SWPLinux> I don't think so
[16:03:59] <bevins> this what I have so far
[16:04:02] <bevins> http://pastebin.ca/1773165
[16:04:03] <andypugh> What happens if you set the stepgen maxvel to 0, does that stop the motor inside the limits?
[16:04:11] <SWPLinux> dunno
[16:04:26] <SWPLinux> isn't that a parameter, not a pin>
[16:04:27] <SWPLinux> ?
[16:04:37] <andypugh> Probably.
[16:07:58] <andypugh> bevins: That is pretty much what I was thinking, but I think you need a stepgen for each motor on the Y, sharing a command input.
[16:09:10] <bevins> I haven got that far yet. Its not seeing my inputs lol
[16:09:34] <andypugh> It might help to watch the existing stepgen position-cmd stuff during homing on the Halscope
[16:09:54] <SWPLinux> the trick may be to change the way home is detected depending on what phase homing is in
[16:10:16] <SWPLinux> the initial search phase (usually faster) should get an OR of the two switches
[16:10:28] <bevins> haha, lyou want me to drive on the interstate before I can drive on the backstreets. I just installed this and those big commands I dont know about yet...lol
[16:10:31] <SWPLinux> then back off and do a slower search for the switch
[16:10:51] <SWPLinux> but in that phase, the home input should be an AND of the two switches
[16:11:03] <SWPLinux> this would be slow enough that stopping dead shouldn't be a problem
[16:11:17] <frallzor> * frallzor cuddles with SWPLinux
[16:11:20] <bevins> it waits for the other input first
[16:11:21] <andypugh> Have you found Halscope yet? It's in the Machine menu of axis, it is like a virtual oscilloscope where you can watch all the pins.
[16:11:29] <SWPLinux> so you use the technique of disabling each stepgen as its home switch is hit
[16:11:48] <bevins> ah cool
[16:13:14] <andypugh> SWPLinux: That was what I was thinking, except that you could leave the home-switch as an AND if there was a way to stop a stepgen independent of the home sequence with an XOR.
[16:13:55] <SWPLinux> yeah, I guess you could use an AND all the time, but there's a danger if the motors are far out of rack
[16:14:00] <andypugh> ie disable each stepgen if it has hit the limit switch, but only if the other stepgen hasn't hit it's limit switch
[16:14:14] <SWPLinux> you want to stop when either motor is at its switch in that higher speed initial search phase
[16:14:28] <bevins> yes, but it would rack the shit out of my gantry if one switch was hit by a wire broke or something
[16:14:45] <SWPLinux> right, that's why you use the OR in the fast mode
[16:15:06] <bevins> my head hurts
[16:15:11] <SWPLinux> you can also use a timer or something to stop the whole thing if it goes too long between one switch getting hit and the other
[16:15:46] <andypugh> I am used to homing by running up to the limits fast, then backing off slowly.
[16:16:16] <SWPLinux> sure, there's another mode that runs to the switch fast, backs off, then runs to the switch slowly
[16:16:36] <andypugh> I suppose I could experiment by pretending that my X and Z were a tandem axis
[16:17:01] <SWPLinux> sure
[16:17:13] <tom3p> hmm, >some< of this could roll over into homing all axis at once (maybe thats already emc2 already and my cfg doesnt use it)
[16:17:28] <SWPLinux> yes, you can home any or all axes at once
[16:17:42] <tom3p> andypugh: yeah i was just thinking of faking it with x&y
[16:17:43] <andypugh> I do home all my axes at once, just give them all the same sequence number
[16:17:45] <SWPLinux> you can also set up home all to home some, then others
[16:18:03] <SWPLinux> like ABZ then XY or something
[16:19:28] <SWPLinux> see you
[16:21:00] <bevins> I am getting a joint 1 on limit switch error.
[16:21:33] <bevins> and a joint2 on limit switch errer
[16:21:54] <bevins> Is that limit switch 1 and two active
[16:22:09] <danimal_garage> probably
[16:22:13] <andypugh> There is a joint.0. too
[16:22:36] <danimal_garage> are the pins true on the hal meter? might have to invert them
[16:24:14] <andypugh> I can't help feeling that we must be reinventing the wheel here.
[16:24:32] <andypugh> Surely there are other dual-drive gantries out there?
[16:25:41] <bevins> I dont know I have the oscope up.....chineese
[16:26:11] <frallzor> there are lots of dualdrive gantries
[16:28:24] <andypugh> bevins: The Hal-meter might be clearer than the Halscope for simple stuff. It's in the same menu.
[16:28:56] <andypugh> I would be out in my garage experimenting now, except my feet are still frozen from earlier.
[16:32:31] <bevins> 1 is true but still get the error
[16:34:08] <andypugh> Is that HAL you posted earlier still relevant?
[16:36:49] <bevins> yes
[16:37:26] <andypugh> I guess you might need to look at the inputs to the or-functions etc?
[16:51:01] <andypugh> Aha! There is an axis.1.homing bit. That might be handy.
[16:54:52] <bevins> can I use emc2 without homing
[16:55:09] <bevins> set the xyz manually
[16:55:37] <andypugh> Yes. In fact I thought you were?
[16:55:52] <bevins> no I havent cut anything yet
[16:57:13] <andypugh> Homing is useful. Apart from anything else it means that G-Code files that will hit the limit switches get flagged at the start, not half way through.
[16:58:26] <bevins> yes but I need to get cutting
[16:58:35] <bevins> how do I set the xyz manually
[16:58:57] <bevins> besides dual booting into winblows and using mach3
[16:59:02] <andypugh> There is no reason that you can't just push the axis to the end stops and then home it there from the GUI. (if the limit inputs are not wired in HAL then you can just select "home axis" in the GUI and it homes where it is.
[17:00:39] <andypugh> I would suggest, for the time being, leaving the X and Z axes homing to switches, and setting the Y axis home velocity to 0 in the INI file. That should give you manual homing on Y
[17:02:22] <andypugh> I feel sure that this is a solved problem. Have you asked on the mailing list?
[17:04:04] <bevins> no I havent yet
[17:04:16] <bevins> I wanted to try and dio it first so I know what I am talking about
[17:16:54] <alidigitalis> hi all - wired up the cnc machine last night.... i may not have enough power going in? it doesn't move, but i hear the motors twitch a bit
[17:17:25] <alidigitalis> i can get them to twitch in one way or the other from EMC - and those were some very gratifying twitches... but no motion
[17:18:04] <alidigitalis> i've got 24V 1A going in, and each motor really wants 1.4A-2A
[17:18:21] <andypugh> Try inverting the step signals in stepconf
[17:18:47] <alidigitalis> ok - you don't think i need to get a new power supply?
[17:19:05] <alidigitalis> i'm looking at this guy here http://cgi.ebay.com/350W-36V-DC-10A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-K008_W0QQitemZ170431336914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ae7fd1d2
[17:19:09] <andypugh> (Assuming you used Stepconf to create the config)
[17:19:33] <andypugh> Yes, I am sure you need a new power supply, but you might not find one on a sunday evening.
[17:20:01] <andypugh> That looks just like mine.
[17:20:20] <alidigitalis> you're a good soul andy - i'm geekin' big time today (we got major snow) :)
[17:21:05] <alidigitalis> so do you think that power supply looks ok? too much? i'm wondering whether one of the computer power supplies would work?
[17:23:57] <tom3p> is the twitch right at power up? or when?
[17:24:08] <andypugh> I tried a computer power supply, and it wasn't successful, it kept getting upset and shutting down. They also need a certain minimum load on the +5V or they don't regulate.
[17:24:46] <alidigitalis> ok - no the twitch comes when i click on the manual axis control
[17:25:21] <alidigitalis> and it'll start making a whining noise until the direction is changed from positive to negative
[17:26:54] <tom3p> stepper? (if so, uncouple the load, dont if servo )
[17:27:24] <andypugh> if you go positive-negative-positive lots of times does it move a little bit? That could be step and direction wires swapped.
[17:27:50] <tom3p> after uncoupling see if the motor turns (it has no load now )
[17:38:01] <tom3p> if it jiggles & whines in 1 dir, and is dead in other, i agree with andy, wires are swapped, if it move w/o load, i bet the ps is too weak for the load ( try to free it up or get more power )
[17:40:28] <alidigitalis> ok - sorry jumping back and forth between here and machine area :)
[17:40:36] <robh_> hehe
[17:51:49] <tom3p> does the pyvcp example of grid packer work for anyone? Integrators manual " Table"
[17:59:16] <tom3p> it just the 5th line should be <label> not <label text>
[17:59:41] <tom3p> (and wrapped in <pyvcp> ... </pyvcp> ;)
[18:30:54] <danimal_garage> how dare you talk badly of the integrator's manual!
[18:34:55] <jthornton> manual?
[18:36:56] <danimal_garage> yea, real men dont use one anyways
[18:37:03] <danimal_garage> right jthornton?
[18:37:12] <danimal_garage> how's the lathe coming?
[18:38:00] <jthornton> getting some wires hooked up today
[18:38:51] <jthornton> doing a latency test on the doner computer, been running all morning at it is at 7671 for base and 5755 for servo
[18:38:56] <danimal_garage> nice
[18:39:13] <danimal_garage> thats good
[18:39:34] <danimal_garage> fairly close to my lathe's
[18:39:45] <danimal_garage> the mill is about 12000
[18:40:43] <danimal_garage> used my lathe for the first time yesterday
[18:41:22] <danimal_garage> only used mdi, but it was wayyy faster than doing it manually
[18:41:28] <jthornton> sweet!
[18:41:58] <danimal_garage> my mastercam is giving me issues so i havent written a program for it yet
[18:42:31] <danimal_garage> something about the axises not being configured right
[18:43:28] <Eric_K> ot: end it all is an option on my phone
[18:43:48] <danimal_garage> i did realize you cant do any sort of long parts on this lathe though
[18:44:03] <danimal_garage> friggin turret is in the way
[18:45:01] <danimal_garage> even though it has like 12" of travel in z, you can only turn the od of something maybe 3 inches long, max
[18:45:24] <Eric_K> that's somewhat limiting
[18:45:25] <danimal_garage> and even then, you loose all rigidity
[18:45:39] <danimal_garage> cause the tool has to hang way out
[18:46:48] <danimal_garage> Eric_K: your phone has a suicide app?
[18:47:06] <danimal_garage> or a world destruction app?
[18:47:14] <Eric_K> yeah, it's on a button on the right hand side :)
[18:47:19] <danimal_garage> hmm
[18:47:24] <Eric_K> I was afraid to push it
[18:47:32] <danimal_garage> i hope it at least has a safety lock on it
[18:47:42] <Eric_K> "are you sure?"
[18:47:50] <danimal_garage> hate for that to go off in your pocket
[18:48:03] <danimal_garage> a friggin jolly rancher ends it all.
[18:48:46] <Eric_K> I'm trying to upload the ring tone from the geico ad: ringedydingdingdong
[18:51:01] <danimal_garage> haha my little puppy is a friggin bruiser
[18:51:17] <danimal_garage> she beats the crap out of my big dog
[18:51:27] <Eric_K> my dog just had ear cancer surgery
[18:52:02] <danimal_garage> aww how's he/she doing?
[18:52:08] <Eric_K> seems fine
[18:52:16] <danimal_garage> good
[18:52:17] <Eric_K> got a notch out of his ear
[18:52:27] <danimal_garage> adds character
[18:52:54] <Eric_K> we used to call him the Colby cheese dog, now he's swiss
[18:53:01] <danimal_garage> ha
[18:53:13] <danimal_garage> mine are bugging me for a walk, i better go
[18:53:18] <danimal_garage> adios
[18:53:24] <Eric_K> cu
[18:55:16] <isssy> hi all
[18:58:19] <danimal_garage> well, the little dog ate her leash
[18:58:29] <danimal_garage> it's in a million pieces
[18:58:32] <danimal_garage> so no walk
[19:02:43] <jthornton> tom3p: in a bit this page will be current for your example http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_pyvcp.html#r1_6_7
[19:03:24] <jthornton> you might have to refresh it in a half an hour or so
[19:04:13] <numen> re
[19:41:48] <numen__> numen__ is now known as numen
[19:55:50] <danimal_garage> if somebody you dont know emails you out of the blue and asks for your hal, ini, and clp files, do you usually send them?
[19:59:35] <archivist> peoples email names often dont match irc nicks, but no one has asked me, dunno
[20:00:07] <danimal_garage> i'm guessing someone gave them my email
[20:00:35] <danimal_garage> no biggie, i dont mind helping, just curious if it was common practice
[20:01:51] <danimal_garage> copying doesnt seem like a good way to learn though
[20:04:14] <micges> danimal_garage: copying and changing is very important way to learn
[20:05:50] <micges> if you think that files you would send can be used without permission, simply don't send them
[20:07:11] <danimal_garage> guess you're right, just wasnt the way i learned
[20:07:32] <danimal_garage> but maybe thats why it took so long for me to figure it out lol
[20:08:20] <danimal_garage> i just read the manual and asked questions if i was stumped
[20:10:04] <micges> danimal_garage: it very depends of thing you want to learn
[20:11:08] <danimal_garage> it was the ladder they were most interested in
[20:11:39] <danimal_garage> they dont know classicladder
[20:12:27] <micges> I'll start learning classicladder soon
[20:12:43] <micges> same way as you
[20:15:47] <danimal_garage> classicladder is pretty easy to understand, it's just hard to figure out what you want/need it to do
[20:17:36] <danimal_garage> some of the parameters could get complicated too i guess
[20:18:24] <tom3p> jthornton: thx, still trying to figure the rules for flexible_rows="[1]" vs flexible_rows="[1,2,3,6]" etc and watching how it affects layouts
[20:18:44] <tom3p> jthornton: give me an url for how to chg them myself
[20:18:47] <tom3p> thx
[20:18:48] <micges> yes you must clearly specify what to do
[20:19:29] <danimal_garage> for me the hard part was the fact that you need to think the whole ladder through, because something at the end will effect what happens in the beginning
[20:19:46] <danimal_garage> so basically i had to have the whole thing memorized
[20:20:09] <micges> danimal_garage: pencil and paper is your friend, saves lot of time
[20:20:27] <danimal_garage> yea, i learned that on the second machine
[20:21:26] <micges> you're building for selling?
[20:23:11] <danimal_garage> no
[20:23:28] <danimal_garage> my personal machines
[20:23:38] <micges> cool
[20:24:12] <micges> I'm building for selling but I'm begining to design machine for me only
[20:25:13] <andypugh> I have almost forgotten why I am building.
[20:26:58] <danimal_garage> i wouldnt sell mine, too much liability
[21:13:22] <EbiDK> EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
[21:44:06] <andypugh> I have been thinking some more on this dual-drive gantry stuff.
[21:46:37] <andypugh> Is the solution to have two completely separate logical axes which can move (and home) independently, though simultaneously, and to use a mux block to divert the position command of one into the other when the "homing" bit is not set.
[21:49:13] <andypugh> The drawback I see is that the "internal" position of the secondary axis will tend to be wrong most of the time. What problems would that cause?
[21:56:42] <ries> emc understand tan, sin and cos... does it also understand pi?
[21:57:53] <archivist> I had to set a constant for pi in one of my gcode progs
[22:00:13] <ries> archivist: ok...
[22:07:51] <andypugh> Is there a bit-version of mux2?
[22:10:43] <andypugh> or do you have to use conv_bit_u32 then conv_u32_float in front of the mux then conv_float_u32 then conv_u32_bit on the output?
[22:11:48] <xeropp> Hi ppl, has anyone tried to run EMC with servos including PID? Is there any simple starting point ?
[22:13:06] <andypugh> There are some sample servo configs as part of the standard installation.
[22:14:07] <andypugh> There is a servo-sim for playing about with without hardware, etch-servo and a number of hm2-servo variants if you have a Mesa card.
[22:15:44] <acemi> xeropp: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Tuning_EMC2/HAL_PID_Loops
[22:18:39] <xeropp> Thanks. Just getting started and using an old plotter as a testbench. It can be controlled with voltage message to absolute position.
[22:19:08] <xeropp> looks like most of the examples are requiring real feedback and letting EMC do PID.
[22:20:10] <archivist> yes the loop is in emc
[22:22:24] <ries> andypugh: I need to calculate some angle using tan and pi....
[22:23:22] <andypugh> Sorry, my question was about using a mux-block in hal with bit signals, not related to your pi question.
[22:23:54] <andypugh> And I see that all the examples do it the long way round...
[22:25:24] <ries> andypugh: Ahhh ok :)
[22:25:37] <andypugh> It seems that it is probably possible with pure boolean logic.
[22:46:31] <ries> is it possible to 'inspect' variables like #2000 for example during program execution?
[22:52:34] <cradek> use a comment like (DEBUG,#2000)
[22:58:43] <GonMD> ive seen some of those cnc laser engraver, by hacking a couple printer jobs around the net lately. anyone built one ?
[23:03:38] <andypugh> ries: Altrnatively, and with more work, you can write them to an analogue output which is wired in hal to a pyVCP control. It rather depends on how often it changes. and whether the scrolling numbers obliterate too much of your Axis screen.
[23:04:19] <andypugh> Having said that, I can't immediately see which M-code puts values on the motion.analog-out-NN pins.
[23:04:31] <ries> cradek: Ahh ok... O solved my problem already, but that's good to know
[23:05:01] <ries> andypugh: in this case I needed a static number caluclated, and I wasn't sure if teh value was correct
[23:05:28] <andypugh> Ah, cradek: have you seen any answers to the dual-drive gantry homing question?
[23:05:45] <cradek> nope
[23:06:01] <andypugh> Do we have any reason to beleive it has been done?
[23:06:28] <andypugh> Searching the archives shows at least three queries, but I haven't seen an answer
[23:06:37] <andypugh> emc
[23:06:51] <andypugh> Sorry, focus-switch booch
[23:06:54] <cradek> I think people get stuff working and then lose the desire to communicate about it
[23:07:15] <ries> andypugh: I have seen similar questions on the mechmate forum...
[23:07:58] <ries> also about auto squaring.... it's on my todo, but currently found a easer way (non automated) way to square my gantry
[23:08:16] <andypugh> Well, if I get this working I will communicate it, because I dont even have a dual-drive-gantry!
[23:08:21] <cradek> frankly I'm kind of tired of people wanting a solution handed to them when I think you can do it any number of ways in hal
[23:08:35] <cradek> maybe everyone is tired of the question
[23:11:33] <andypugh> I suspect that the best way is to have two independent axes that home simultaneously, but then get slaved together when homing is off.
[23:12:00] <cradek> that's how gantrykins works I think (but you mean independent joints)
[23:12:31] <ries> I can pick it up at some stage... I have a gantry with dual motors, but first I have some other items to understand... I am working on my give back project pythoin code to make dovetails in wood...
[23:13:08] <andypugh> I might mean joints, yes. Though my thought was an X,Y,Z,V setup, with V slaved to Y.
[23:14:16] <cradek> you'd have to write V and Y together in all your gcode then. if using kins, you want both joints to be one axis (Y)
[23:15:22] <andypugh> I was trying to find a way to wire two stepgens to one axis. That works, but makes homing-with-squaring non-trivial.
[23:15:58] <cradek> for steppers it seems easy to me - just turn off the step pulses for the one that's ahead until they line up
[23:16:28] <andypugh> And the inelegant idea was to home Y and V, but then ignore V, directing the Y-axis position command to both stepgens.
[23:16:54] <cradek> IMO you don't want to use V for anything
[23:17:23] <andypugh> I have just finished a HAL that does exactly what you just suggested. (Or might)
[23:18:31] <andypugh> The only issue is that as I have it on the initial homing rapid one side will crash-stop, and the second will cruise to a stop.
[23:19:37] <cradek> yeah you'll have to go slow to keep position on those quick stops and starts
[23:21:05] <andypugh> I suspect that rebooting my EMC machine using the main power breaker to the garage is inelegant.
[23:32:59] <tom3p> andypugh: mux2bit http://pastebin.ca/1773735 can run in fast thread, no floats
[23:34:31] <andypugh> thanks tom3p: I will keep that, but suspect it isn't an option for this HAL file which isn't for my use. (No, I am not sure why I am writing it either)
[23:35:07] <tom3p> its not part of the distro, i wrote for my own velocity mode motion
[23:35:56] <tom3p> i rewrote a lot of comps to other data types to keep some things fast
[23:38:17] <andypugh> Yes, I remember you mentioning the bit-mux. Well, I remembered somebody mentioning it.