#emc | Logs for 2010-01-20

[00:05:42] <jthornton> say goodnight Gracie
[00:14:13] <danimal_garage> sweet that little vfd i got at the surplus yard works great for the vfd
[00:15:36] <danimal_garage> how goes it jthornton?
[00:26:01] <jthornton> good, I'm working on nothing atm LOL but should be working on the phase conveter
[00:26:03] <danimal_garage> there's no way to change a 3 phase motor from 3500 to 1700 rpm, is there?
[00:26:04] <jthornton> converter
[00:26:43] <danimal_garage> i hear ya, i should be doing alot of things
[00:27:43] <jthornton> no the 3500 has more poles
[00:28:10] <danimal_garage> darn
[00:46:26] <Valen> VFD?
[00:46:30] <Valen> that'll do it
[00:49:38] <danimal_garage> i am the world's biggest idiot sometimes
[00:49:49] <danimal_garage> the motor was wired for 400v, not 200v
[00:49:58] <danimal_garage> no wonder it didnt have any power
[00:50:06] <Valen> yah that'll slow it down some
[00:50:23] <danimal_garage> it was weird, everything else was wired for 200v
[00:50:49] <danimal_garage> so i never thought to check it
[00:57:53] <danimal_garage> jst_home: wanna hear something funny?
[01:06:47] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[01:10:21] <danimal_garage> sweet!! spindle works great now
[01:10:31] <danimal_garage> my machine is now usable
[01:13:05] <ds3> 9
[01:14:36] <Guest390> maybe someone started to convert it to 480 but got sidetracked....
[02:58:00] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6p1-h5Rlv4
[02:58:18] <cradek> nice tapping video. this machine sure has some acceleration.
[02:59:11] <dan1mal> nice!
[02:59:29] <dan1mal> i wish my mill could do that
[02:59:40] <cradek> you mean tap or accelerate?
[02:59:48] <dan1mal> need power supplies? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/DSCN0754.jpg
[02:59:56] <eric_unterhausen> I wish mine would do either :(
[03:00:11] <dan1mal> accelerate. i'll be able to tap soon once i get an encoder mounted
[03:00:12] <cradek> wow, that's definitely a haul
[03:00:20] <dan1mal> yea, no kidding
[03:00:30] <cradek> what voltages?
[03:00:42] <dan1mal> 24, 15, 12, and 5
[03:00:45] <eric_unterhausen> I got a big pile of power supplies like that once, the people apparently didn't know you had to hook up the sense lines
[03:00:52] <cradek> haha
[03:00:55] <eric_unterhausen> they all said "bad" on them
[03:00:58] <dan1mal> haha
[03:00:59] <cradek> dan1mal: darn, no 40
[03:01:12] <dan1mal> hook up a 24 and a 15 lol
[03:01:21] <eric_unterhausen> it works
[03:01:39] <eric_unterhausen> the outputs are isolated for just that reason
[03:01:44] <dan1mal> i got some 6a 15v, and some 4.8a 24v
[03:02:02] <dan1mal> cool
[03:02:27] <dan1mal> i just wanted the enclosure
[03:02:31] <dan1mal> that they were in
[03:02:43] <dan1mal> it was real nice
[03:03:23] <dan1mal> i got all those power supplies, the enclosure, and the vfd for $100.
[03:03:33] <cradek> jeez
[03:03:34] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[03:03:44] <dan1mal> cradek: i figured out what was wrong with my spindle motor
[03:03:47] <cradek> it's easy to justify using a vfd for the coolant, at that price
[03:03:51] <cradek> what was it?
[03:03:57] <dan1mal> i'm an idiot
[03:04:01] <cradek> haha
[03:04:06] <eric_unterhausen> but still not as "you suck" worthy as your compressor
[03:04:07] <dan1mal> the motor was wired for 480v
[03:04:07] <cradek> wired for 440?
[03:04:11] <cradek> hahahaha
[03:04:13] <dan1mal> yep
[03:04:26] <dan1mal> the rest of the machine was wired for 230v
[03:04:41] <dan1mal> i checked the transformers and everything
[03:04:45] <cradek> why didn't we think of that? I thought of it as soon as you said "I'm an idiot", ha
[03:04:45] <ries> Hey all, I know that M3 S3000 F5 means turn spindle on CW at 3000rpm, but what does F5 mean F5
[03:04:47] <dan1mal> even the coolant pump
[03:05:01] <dan1mal> f5 is the feed rate
[03:05:07] <cradek> ries: subsequent feed moves (G1,G2,G3) are at 5
[03:05:17] <cradek> it doesn't do anything for that line, only for later
[03:05:43] <dan1mal> yea, kinda odd that it would be in that line, usually it goes in the first g1 line
[03:06:16] <ries> trying to learn Gcode :) so I am decoding some messages g-codes right now :)
[03:07:04] <dan1mal> check out my cute little vfd: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/DSCN0755.jpg
[03:07:49] <cradek> I'm jealous
[03:08:11] <dan1mal> i can get you one for $50
[03:08:18] <dan1mal> maybe less
[03:08:20] <cradek> what hp is it?
[03:08:22] <dan1mal> 1
[03:08:36] <dan1mal> .75kw
[03:08:45] <dan1mal> they had a bunch
[03:09:07] <DaViruz> i like my cute vfd as well: http://daviruz.meeep.net/DSC00780.JPG
[03:09:27] <cradek> hmm, do you take paypal?
[03:09:43] <dan1mal> cradek: yea
[03:09:59] <dan1mal> DaViruz: nice setup
[03:10:22] <dan1mal> cradek: it works well with the coolant pump running off of single phase
[03:10:26] <cradek> cool, do pick one up for me next time you go - let me know a price and shipping.
[03:10:49] <dan1mal> i'll see if i can get it for $30 or $40 for ya
[03:11:31] <dan1mal> he was asking $50, but i got mine for $25 because i got the enclosure
[03:12:57] <dan1mal> i love that place :)
[03:13:13] <cradek> cool, thanks
[03:13:32] <dan1mal> hey i have one bug with the toolchanger
[03:14:33] <dan1mal> i have the stop trigger before the turret stops spinning and i have it release after a few miliseconds so it drops down into place, which it does
[03:14:59] <dan1mal> then i have the stop engage again after the toolchanged signal is active
[03:15:40] <dan1mal> however, i hear the stop engaging and disengaging every once in a while, however i dont see the tool changed pin deactivated
[03:15:51] <dan1mal> so i'm thinking it needs some sort of debounce
[03:16:21] <cradek> I don't understand what you're hearing and when
[03:16:58] <dan1mal> just when the machine is idle, sometimes i hear the stop piston for the turret engaging and disengaging
[03:17:04] <dan1mal> intermittently
[03:17:18] <dan1mal> it'll click a few times
[03:17:39] <cradek> weird
[03:17:42] <dan1mal> yea
[03:17:46] <cradek> bogus opto?
[03:17:53] <dan1mal> i tihnk so
[03:18:07] <dan1mal> it had a bunch of oil pooled up in there
[03:18:11] <dan1mal> cant be good for it
[03:18:36] <cradek> software debounce isn't going to help is it? I mean the signal is already on all the time
[03:18:44] <cradek> unless I misunderstand what you mean
[03:20:24] <dan1mal> well if the turret down sensor flickers for some reason, so does the tool changed signal, and then so does the turret stop
[03:21:00] <dan1mal> the flicker seems to be less than a ms, since the wires in the ladder stay pink
[03:21:36] <SWPadnos> once "tool changed" is asserted, the entire toolchange ladder should be disabled until "tool-change" is re-asserted
[03:21:57] <SWPadnos> so any bounce when there's nothing supposed to be happening will have no effect
[03:22:23] <SWPadnos> you can have several milliseconds of debounce, or even just one or two, but that debounce has to run in a fast thread (faster than 1ms)
[03:22:39] <dan1mal> hmm
[03:23:03] <SWPadnos> you can be pretty sure that there's no tool change going on once you finish one and before the next one is requested
[03:23:40] <SWPadnos> you could have 1 second of debounce, and it probably wouldn't matter too much (since you're at the end of the change anyway, and just waiting to tell the motion controller it can start moving again)
[03:23:56] <dan1mal> yea, i know there's no toolchange going on, but the toolchanged signal, when active, also holds my turret stop signal active
[03:24:15] <SWPadnos> I think you may need to add some more ladder logic in there :)
[03:25:30] <dan1mal> well, i could invert the pin for my turret stop piston on the 7i37 so it's closed when true
[03:25:50] <dan1mal> then i wouldnt need to hold it closed in ladder
[03:27:10] <dan1mal> might be an easier way, but i'm new to ladder
[03:27:28] <dan1mal> and all of this stuff for that matter
[03:28:01] <dan1mal> cradek: lathe spindle spins up nicely now. i'm pretty happy with it.
[03:28:24] <dan1mal> i'll see if i can grab you a vfd later this week or next
[03:28:41] <dan1mal> anyone else need a 1hp/.75kw vfd?
[03:29:53] <dan1mal> or a power supply lol
[03:30:15] <dan1mal> i got a few spare PS's :)
[03:30:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:30:38] <SWPadnos> does the stop piston need to be held on while turning, or is it just for stopping the rotation?
[03:30:49] <SWPadnos> (turning workpieces, not the turret)
[03:31:41] <dan1mal> no, other way around
[03:31:52] <dan1mal> needs to be held closed when stopped
[03:32:02] <dan1mal> but i might reverse that
[03:32:19] <SWPadnos> I'm asking about the mechanics, not the logic or the interface to EMC
[03:32:29] <DaViruz> what kind of power supplies?
[03:32:44] <DaViruz> i'd like to replace my 24V 15A with a 48V dito
[03:32:54] <dan1mal> SWPadnos: default is open
[03:33:12] <SWPadnos> so when the machine is idle, the stop piston should not be activated?
[03:33:44] <dan1mal> possibly not, but i do activate it because i feel some play in the turret
[03:33:55] <dan1mal> DaViruz: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/?action=view&current=DSCN0754.jpg&newest=1
[03:34:15] <dan1mal> i dont have any 48v, but i have 2 24v you can wire together
[03:35:00] <dan1mal> SWPadnos: activated=stop is stopping
[03:35:13] <SWPadnos> chinese sounds me like to you?
[03:35:20] <SWPadnos> :)
[03:35:26] <dan1mal> ha
[03:35:32] <SWPadnos> so when you power the thing, it locks the turret in place?
[03:35:44] <dan1mal> yes
[03:35:57] <SWPadnos> ok, then it should probably be on by default
[03:36:06] <SWPadnos> which means that the ladder logic should have to
[03:36:14] <SWPadnos> "hold it" off
[03:36:28] <dan1mal> yea, i gotta reverse it basically
[03:36:30] <SWPadnos> the polarity should be such that an unprogrammed FPGA will leave it on
[03:37:02] <SWPadnos> well, not really. it only really matters if it's something that you need to know the state of before EMC runs
[03:37:26] <SWPadnos> you should check into the expected duty cycle of the part though, it may not be intended to be on all the time, and could overheat
[03:37:40] <dan1mal> good point
[03:38:07] <dan1mal> maybe i'll leave it off and try to take the play out of it
[03:38:20] <dan1mal> it's not much
[03:38:22] <SWPadnos> that sounds like a good plan
[03:39:06] <dan1mal> cant wait to use this thing after all this time building it
[03:39:33] <dan1mal> how many hnc's out there are retrofited with emc?
[03:39:47] <dan1mal> at least a few, huh?
[03:39:52] <cradek> yeah
[03:40:05] <dan1mal> me, you, and K.W.
[03:40:16] <cradek> matt shaver has one I think
[03:40:31] <dan1mal> soon to be jt-plasma
[03:40:40] <cradek> SWPadnos if he ever gets in gear
[03:40:42] <dan1mal> even though it's a chnc
[03:40:45] <cradek> they're everywhere
[03:40:57] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah
[03:41:01] <SWPadnos> maybe this summer ...
[03:41:04] <cradek> oh hey, I can get a coffee mug with your power supplies on it
[03:41:29] <dan1mal> me? not sure if they'll fit :)
[03:41:41] <dan1mal> j/k, i know you mean SWPadnos
[03:42:32] <dan1mal> i keep eyeballing that sony circuit board mill at the surplus yard
[03:42:50] <cradek> you know you want it...
[03:42:52] <dan1mal> i guess i'll wait till it sits there forever and lowball them
[03:42:57] <dan1mal> i do!
[03:43:20] <dan1mal> it'd be perfect for engraving
[03:44:07] <cradek> whee, I love how polar coords work now - it's what I should have done originally
[03:44:29] <dan1mal> polar coords?
[03:44:37] <cradek> yeah
[03:44:42] <ries> On this page : http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/gcode/g-code.html it states that G41 codes are discussed on a separate page, however the page doesn't tell me where I can find that page, anybody happen to know?
[03:44:46] <dan1mal> what are those?
[03:44:49] <cradek> @radius, ^theta
[03:45:02] <cradek> do you know what polar is? circular coordinates?
[03:45:42] <cradek> ries: I think the handbook is super old - start here instead: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[03:45:45] <dan1mal> not a clue what you're refering to
[03:46:01] <ries> cradek: Ahh ok, thanks....
[03:46:09] <cradek> ries: cutter radius compensation: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_tool_compensation.html#sec:Cutter-Radius-Compensation
[03:46:40] <dan1mal> ries will probably know more about g codes than me, and i've been using them for at least 6 years now
[03:46:41] <cradek> dan1mal: polar coordinates are where instead of X,Y you specify a circle's radius and the angle ccw to specify a point
[03:46:55] <dan1mal> mastercam made me ignorant!
[03:47:09] <dan1mal> oh neat
[03:47:14] <cradek> polar is much more natural when working on circular things than X,Y
[03:47:48] <dan1mal> yea, i use polar lines and whatnot in mastercam alot
[03:47:51] <cradek> to drill 8 points around a circle of radius 10, they are @10^0, @10^45, @10^90, ...
[03:48:10] <cradek> you can use these kinds of coordinates in gcode now (on master)
[03:48:20] <dan1mal> cool!
[03:48:28] <dan1mal> that is easier
[03:48:39] <ries> dan1mal: I am making a python program for creating various dovetails.... a nice simple project, the python program is ready, now I only need to generate proper G-code
[03:48:39] <cradek> in fact you can use repeating drill cycles to drill all 8 holes with one line of gcode
[03:48:58] <dan1mal> wow
[03:49:29] <dan1mal> ries: cool, you'll get it soon
[03:50:18] <dan1mal> ugh, i gotta rip my mill apart to put together my new controller cabinet
[03:50:25] <ries> Yeaaa.. I am almost there....
[03:50:37] <ries> it's one of these things woodworkers like to make I think :)
[03:51:34] <dan1mal> it's funny, i was excited to have my cnc equipment to do some wood working, but i havent tried it once
[03:52:41] <dan1mal> cradek: your ratio for the hi/lo gearing seems to be closer than mine
[03:52:56] <dan1mal> now that i got the spindle working correctly, it's easier to tell
[03:53:12] <ries> dan1mal: When it all works fine and tested on my machine, I will post the code as my gift back to the community
[03:53:24] <dan1mal> cool!
[03:53:37] <dan1mal> i'm trying to figure out what my gift will be
[03:53:57] <dan1mal> i think once i get my ladder done for my mill's atc, i'll post that up
[03:54:12] <ries> dan1mal: and being here helping people also helps ;)
[03:54:42] <dan1mal> ries: yea, but at this stage, i'm more of the helped instead of the helper
[04:18:19] <ries> dan1mal: I totally feel the same... asking stupid questions to people here, but the fact is it keeps the channel alive and friendly ;)
[04:36:39] <maddash> maddash is now known as Guest15343
[04:38:19] <maddash_> quick question: given the current and a 3-phase voltage, how does one calculate the power factor? against which voltage phase is the current measured against?
[04:38:40] <maddash_> maddash_ is now known as maddash
[07:05:37] <Jymmm> This is a cool case... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233060
[07:11:54] <Valen> what are you guys using for saftey switches?
[07:12:03] <Valen> something in a waterproof model would be nice
[07:56:47] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[10:17:58] <piasdom> g'morning all
[11:35:58] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[11:36:21] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[11:57:50] <Valen> 2 questions, any idea where to start getting emc to control the coolant pump and spindle power? Its all wired up with the mesa boards and drivers etc, just need to muck with the software
[11:58:09] <Valen> also what are people using for limit switches, preferablly water proof
[12:14:53] <jthornton> proxes
[12:15:09] <Valen> ?
[12:15:10] <jthornton> halui
[12:15:29] <jthornton> proxes for limit switches as they are waterproof
[12:15:48] <bassogigas> is it real to assign shortcut for homing axes? in 2.3.4 it is impossible to move without homing, and clicking every time on the UI buttons is annoying.
[12:16:03] <Valen> which bit of halui, it seems such a big pool and its all looking like deep end
[12:16:17] <jthornton> bassogigas: you can turn off the homing requirement
[12:16:33] <micges_work> bassogigas: Ctrl home to home all axes
[12:16:44] <bassogigas> thanks
[12:16:46] <bassogigas> !
[12:16:47] <micges_work> and home to home selected
[12:17:13] <micges_work> select by pressing x or y or z
[12:17:36] <bassogigas> micges_work, i know it
[12:17:47] <jthornton> Valen: not that big of a list http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man1/halui.1.html
[12:21:07] <Valen> halui looks more like a way to interact with the UI
[12:21:27] <Valen> I was looking more for the how to tell EMC that pin x on board Y is going to turn the coolant pump on
[12:21:31] <bassogigas> ctrl-home is nice
[12:21:51] <jthornton> ok
[12:23:33] <jthornton> net turn-my-flood-on halui.flood.on <= hm2_5i20.0.gpio.01
[12:23:52] <Valen> and where would I put that?
[12:23:54] <jthornton> =>
[12:24:39] <jthornton> you might want to read this short chapter http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
[12:25:13] <jthornton> oh I'm not awake yet not halui.flood.on
[12:26:22] <micges_work> iocontrol.0.coolant-flood-on
[12:26:34] <jthornton> micges_work: is awake
[12:26:38] <jthornton> thanks
[12:27:19] <Valen> so net iocontrol.0.coolant-flood-on <= hm2_5i20.0.gpio.01
[12:28:43] <jthornton> got to have a signal name
[12:29:35] <Valen> so net somenamehere iocontrol.0.coolant-flood-on <= hm2_5i20.0.gpio.01
[12:29:42] <jthornton> the <=> is just for humans to make it easier to read
[12:29:45] <jthornton> yes
[12:30:08] <Valen> I wasnt sure if the name was needed for something
[12:30:09] <jthornton> and it would go the otherway in that case
[12:30:28] <jthornton> net somenamehere iocontrol.0.coolant-flood-on => hm2_5i20.0.gpio.01
[12:30:30] <Valen> I'm sure it'll make sense in a few months ;->
[12:31:55] <Valen> so I'm guessing if I want spindle control it'll be
[12:36:46] <Valen> net someothernamehere motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i20.0.gpio.01
[12:36:46] <Valen> or 02 as the case may be
[12:36:46] <Valen> into which file would these typically go?
[12:38:01] <Valen> you broke it
[13:01:02] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[13:07:11] <JustinXJS2> JustinXJS2 is now known as JustinXJS
[13:38:45] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks
[14:04:41] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[15:14:27] <tom3p> NB: on 'scale' widget, it can be float OR s32, BUT you have to append -i or -f to name
[15:14:28] <tom3p> eg: pyvcp.unitsUsed-i for the int and pyvcp.preciseValue-f for the float
[16:27:54] <Jymmm> The roof is leaking like crazy *heavy sigh*
[16:29:27] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: Do you know if the blue tarps are any good for roof leaks?
[16:31:40] <skunkworks_> I would think they would work temporaraly...
[16:31:51] <cradek> Jymmm: the wind wrecks them pretty fast if they are allowed to flop around
[16:32:05] <cradek> tie it down good and make sure nothing is poking it
[16:32:27] <Jymmm> The problem is II'd have to cut holes for the vent pipes.
[16:32:38] <tom3p> ice dams?
[16:32:48] <Jymmm> I guess I could duct tape the cut edges
[16:33:04] <cradek> do you know what's leaking? a real fix might be just as easy.
[16:33:07] <Jymmm> tom3p: Calif - thunderstorms, no ice
[16:33:27] <tom3p> thats the good news
[16:34:05] <Jymmm> cradek: We had a gu come out and patch the roof 2wks ago, and then come back last week to patch more. Now there's 7 more leaks.
[16:34:34] <Jymmm> and only 8 more days and nights of heavy rain to go
[16:35:03] <Jymmm> I just dont know wth todo, tarps are not that cheap.
[16:35:34] <Jymmm> Got woken up to leak right in the middle of the bed.
[16:35:39] <Jymmm> leaks
[16:35:49] <Jymmm> first time ever in that room
[16:36:25] <archivist> incorrect sealing sometimes just moves the stuff around
[16:36:38] <tom3p> poly film? maybe 3 mil (emergency fix ), lap over the ridge line
[16:36:46] <cradek> sometimes one leak will run into many places
[16:36:57] <tom3p> poly cheaper than tarps
[16:37:27] <Jymmm> I think he did his best at patching, just old fscking roof and a slumlord
[16:37:51] <Jymmm> err make that an absent slumlord.
[16:39:11] <cradek> do you have an attic?
[16:39:15] <Jymmm> tom3p: If *ANY* breeze catches poly - it's gone.
[16:39:45] <tom3p> gotta weight it down, old socks sand, you're loosing your roof, its emergency
[16:40:05] <Jymmm> cradek: No, it's an open ceiling, 13feet at the peak, 8ft at the minimum
[16:40:25] <archivist> time to move
[16:41:21] <Jymmm> archivist: tell me about it, just not an easy thing to do, which is the reason we're here in the first place - we have 18 birds and 90% of the place around here are "no pets"
[16:42:18] <Jymmm> We've been working on cleaning out everything for a while in anticipation of moving.
[16:43:10] <Jymmm> The gf just said that the handyman will be out in a few hours. Not sure what he can do, but we'll see.
[16:45:42] <Jymmm> you know, I have nfc why they don't make roofs to last a lifetime. I mean there are metal roofs that withstand feet of snow and dont leak
[16:47:48] <Jymmm> And coldn't they put on a metal roof, then that spray on rhino lining 1/8" thick as a solid membrane
[16:48:04] <Jymmm> no seams to leak thru
[16:55:20] <danimal_garage> I need to find a rod wiper
[16:55:24] <danimal_garage> preferably locally
[16:55:32] <danimal_garage> gr
[16:56:15] <danimal_garage> jymm: suprised the landlord would let the roof leak, that cant be good for the rest of the house
[16:58:49] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: Ha! When we moved in here it was vacant for 4+ years (per the utility company's records). This is a 50yo duplex, the unit next door's garage is full with chunks of concrete and other crap - he really is a cheap bastard, wouldn't even leave a $2 padlock on the garage, said to provide our own.
[16:59:45] <jmkasunich> and there is the reason they don't make metal roofs
[17:00:14] <Jymmm> ?
[17:00:20] <jmkasunich> cheapness
[17:00:32] <jmkasunich> the cheapest metal roof is probably 2x the price of an expensive shingle roof
[17:00:49] <tom3p> where is documentation for ini file's [AXIS_<NUM>] SCALE ?
[17:00:55] <jmkasunich> sure it lasts longer, but few people will pony up the cash for something where the difference doesn't show up for 20+ years
[17:01:55] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: That' just dumb imo if you are having your home built. But I guess most do it to flip them anyway
[17:02:27] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Are they worth it though?
[17:02:39] <jmkasunich> not qualified to answer that question
[17:02:44] <Jymmm> heh
[17:03:00] <jmkasunich> I have shingles just like 99.5% of the population
[17:03:11] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: it is finally happening.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/start.JPG http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/stripped.JPG
[17:03:14] <Jymmm> Shit, even laying plywood down then hitting it with that rhino sprays sounds better
[17:03:50] <jmkasunich> I doubt it - you are relying totally on the rhino spray for waterproofing
[17:04:04] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_config.html#sub:[AXIS]-section
[17:04:12] <jmkasunich> it's amazing what sunlight and outdoor exposure can do to all kinds of polymers (rubber, etc)
[17:04:14] <tom3p> thx JT
[17:04:53] <tom3p> not there
[17:04:54] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Well, maybe not EXACTLY rhino lining, but they do have some wonderful polymers anymore
[17:05:23] <dan1mal> clay
[17:05:27] <dan1mal> and straw
[17:05:30] <jmkasunich> polymer and 30+ years of outdoor exposure just don't go together
[17:05:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: RTV
[17:05:52] <jmkasunich> at least, not any polymer where mere mortals can afford hundreds of square feet of sheet
[17:06:04] <dan1mal> ha, rtv the cracks
[17:06:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I'm still thinking spray on
[17:06:37] <dan1mal> how bout chia roof? just spread the seeds and let nature do the rest
[17:06:38] <JT-Work> tom3p: are you looking for INPUT_SCALE
[17:06:39] <Jymmm> I mean shit, telco cables on the poles have been up 30+ years
[17:06:40] <jmkasunich> spray on will fail at joints due to movement (humidity and temp changes), unless it is very thick
[17:07:19] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: That sounds reasonable, spray heavily at seams.
[17:07:25] <dan1mal> dont they have polymer stucco now?
[17:07:38] <Jymmm> maybe tape is sorta-kinda like you would drywall
[17:07:52] <Jymmm> at seams
[17:08:08] <tom3p> JT-Work: found it 4 pages down from you url at Stepper-related items
[17:08:09] <tom3p> thx
[17:08:23] <tom3p> no plain old SCALE
[17:08:34] <JT-Work> tom3p:yea it is a long section
[17:08:43] <dan1mal> they do have polymer stucco, so you'd think they can do a roof too
[17:09:26] <Jymmm> Heck, I've even seen them use Foam-in-can (Expanding PU) to fill-in mine shafts (seriously)
[17:09:50] <Jymmm> saw that on Dirty Jobs
[17:10:27] <Jymmm> It was pretty cool too. Mike even jumped on it - didn't move.
[17:10:51] <Jymmm> Mind you it was probably 15 feet deep of it, but still.
[17:10:58] <tom3p> JT-Work: i'm trying to make an axis stop at a numeric limit while in velocity mode. i find that the axis can move so much in one servo period, and am reducing the velocity until it cannot move more than 1 least possible measure in 1 servo period ( 1um here) .
[17:12:40] <tom3p> Jymmm look at roofs in tropical areas, they dont use shingles, they use ribbed metal and terra cotta and palm leaves, never shingles
[17:13:00] <tom3p> people who get lots of rain adapt
[17:14:33] <Jymmm> tom3p: Yeah you make a good point there. I think it's just the roof industry doesn't want to actually produce something that is self-defeating. It's like making a tire that would last 1,000,000 miles. (Which does exist, Goodyear bought the patent for it years ago)
[17:15:06] <Jymmm> Hey, there we go... a rubber roof! lol
[17:15:59] <dan1mal> trailer parks had it right all along! tires on the roof!
[17:16:30] <Jymmm> mean shit if we can have rubber tires that do 100MPH in high heat holding up 2000+ lb cars, surely it can handle sticks and losts of water on a stationary roof
[17:17:04] <tom3p> my fav reference http://www.orientalarchitecture.com/
[17:17:31] <SWPadnos> tires are rubber and steel
[17:17:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: works for me!
[17:17:50] <SWPadnos> don't forget the belts, which are necessary if you want to go faster than 40MPH or so for long periods
[17:18:03] <toastydeath> wheee signed up for classes
[17:18:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: If my roof want todo 40MPH, I'm gonna let it!
[17:18:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:18:43] <SWPadnos> you can buy roofing material that will last several hundred years, but it's more expensive
[17:19:12] <Jymmm> GREAT! a severe storm is mving in from the east bay, oh joy.
[17:19:15] <SWPadnos> corrugated metal roofs (zinc, tin), standing seam roofs (copper or other metals), and slate will all last a long long time
[17:19:20] <Jymmm> Adn the lights keep flickering
[17:19:24] <SWPadnos> but they do need a little maintenance
[17:26:21] <tom3p> no luck googling asphalt shingles in europe, never mentioned
[17:26:37] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6p1-h5Rlv4
[17:29:14] <tom3p> real nice, & 1500 rpm too
[17:29:54] <flexxxv> Hello
[17:30:11] <flexxxv> I'm planning the electronics for m
[17:30:19] <flexxxv> my cnc right now
[17:30:32] <flexxxv> can I use for each axis one parrallel port?
[17:30:55] <cradek> why do you want that? what are you trying to do?
[17:31:21] <flexxxv> I need to transper: step, min, max, on for each axis
[17:31:28] <flexxxv> (3 at all)
[17:32:56] <flexxxv> I want to use 3 of these boards:
[17:32:57] <flexxxv> http://dev.www.reprap.org/bin/view/Main/Stepper_Motor_Driver_2_3#IDC_Connector
[17:33:39] <SWPadnos> there are several reprap people using/experimenting with EMC
[17:33:43] <flexxxv> (I'm not building a reprap)
[17:33:48] <SWPadnos> ah
[17:34:12] <SWPadnos> I don't know if any of them has written a driver for that board. it's not really the way EMC works
[17:34:23] <tom3p> in that schema min max are limits
[17:34:32] <SWPadnos> ("smart" drivers aren't necessary, since EMC is smart enough)
[17:35:14] <flexxxv> ok, so I only need 2 pins. but how can I do the calibration without min/max?
[17:35:28] <flexxxv> (2 pins eachaxeis)
[17:35:33] <cradek> that's not smart - looks like step/dir.
[17:35:44] <cradek> it's just a tiny stepper driver
[17:35:57] <cradek> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoeken/3289138606/sizes/l/in/set-72157612800098275/
[17:36:05] <SWPadnos> I haven't looked at it, but the "min max" thing made me thing it was a little more sophisticated
[17:36:25] <flexxxv> min max just goes to a sensor (for calibration)
[17:36:27] <cradek> yeah I don't understand what that is
[17:36:40] <cradek> what kind of calibration?
[17:37:12] <flexxxv> I think it is used to find the "Point 0"
[17:37:41] <flexxxv> and to make sure that you wont damage the machine
[17:37:48] <SWPadnos> limit switches?
[17:38:00] <tom3p> min max are limit swxs
[17:38:17] <flexxxv> take a look here:http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/OptoEndstop_2_1
[17:38:20] <JT-Work> home it
[17:38:20] <tom3p> bit inputs on schema
[17:39:51] <flexxxv> so is emc able to handle these switches?
[17:39:57] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:41:05] <flexxxv> so I can use 1 Port for one axis with pins for: Step, Dir, Min, Max and Enable?
[17:41:13] <cradek> sure you can do that
[17:42:00] <flexxxv> (parallel port has not enough oins to handle 3 axis inclusive min max right?)
[17:42:20] <SWPadnos> not quite the right mix
[17:42:33] <SWPadnos> but you can use one enable for all the drivers
[17:42:48] <SWPadnos> step+dir x3 plus enable = 7 outptus
[17:42:52] <SWPadnos> outputs
[17:43:01] <SWPadnos> min/max*3 = 6 inputs
[17:43:14] <SWPadnos> I think there may be only 5 inputs, but it could be 7
[17:43:26] <flexxxv> ok good idea
[17:43:46] <flexxxv> iso i only need two parallel ports :D
[17:44:34] <flexxxv> anyone know a cheap inear slides for a homebuild cnc?
[17:45:25] <SWPadnos> not me
[17:46:35] <flexxxv> Is it a problem to use a pci to parallel card?
[17:47:31] <flexxxv> (I don't own a mainboard with 2 parallel ports)
[17:47:54] <SWPadnos> you can use most any PCI parallel port that Linux recognizes (which is most of them)
[17:48:15] <SWPadnos> you can also use some inexpensive I/O cards, usually based on the 8255 or similar
[17:48:50] <SWPadnos> there are also relatively low cost cards with FPGAs in them, from $90 or so to $300 or so, which give you between 48 and 96 IOs
[17:49:00] <SWPadnos> (the $90 one connects to a parallel port and has 48 IOs)
[17:49:28] <flexxxv> I think I'll use parallel (5€)
[17:52:53] <tom3p> seems to have the parport (.hal) for repstrap http://code.google.com/p/casainho-projects/source/browse/#svn/trunk/emcrepstrap/emc2/configs/zenbot-emcrepstrap
[17:53:34] <tom3p> yes, in zenbot-emcrepstrap.hal
[17:53:55] <flexxxv> yeah but I wont have the main reprap board
[17:54:11] <flexxxv> (I'm not building a reprap) :D
[17:54:48] <flexxxv> Just one more question :D For Min/Max Inputs: Do I have to wire to the pins 2-9? (Wikipedia say it is only output)
[17:55:20] <flexxxv> (of the parallel port)
[17:55:38] <SWPadnos> the EMC2 manual has the parallel port pinouts (for input and output modes)
[17:55:58] <flexxxv> thanks i'll take a look
[17:56:27] <flexxxv> (I realy need it in the printed version :D)
[17:58:07] <flexxxv> getting started, user or integrators manual?
[18:00:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'm not sure :)
[18:00:44] <tom3p> the step & dir config is same , and he didnt use the limits. pins 2-9 can be configured in or out. u\you can wire switches in series to reduce pin count, you can m\use another parport for limits, there are many variations
[18:00:44] <JT-Work> integrators manual
[18:00:52] <SWPadnos> should be in the integrators manual, and maybe the user manual as well
[18:01:13] <SWPadnos> listen to JT-Work, he does most of the manuals these days :)
[18:02:03] <flexxxv> so it is not in the user manual, but also in getting started thx
[18:02:32] <tom3p> page 99 integrators manual
[18:03:07] <tom3p> page 101 diagram of the 2 basic variants
[18:03:21] <flexxxv> thanks a lot, just understood this parallel port (I think) so Ican wire Min/Max together and use just one parallel :)
[18:03:35] <tom3p> then home one at a time
[18:05:24] <danimal_garage> cradek: i ordered 5 gallons of that oil
[18:05:41] <danimal_garage> $145 shipped (ouch!)
[18:06:28] <tom3p> flexxxv: this could be handy http://media.unpythonic.net/axis-files/01185733075/stepconf.pdf
[18:13:20] <tom3p> could someone check this math? my max velocity = 13.4 (mm/sec), scale = 532.5 (counts/mm), thats 7135.5 counts/sec or 7.1355 counts/mSec, so with a servoThread of 1,000,000 i can get max 7.1355 steps/mSec?
[18:14:14] <SWPadnos> yes, +/- 1
[18:14:24] <tom3p> seems dang slow, thx
[18:19:37] <motioncontrol> good evening.ho is possible execute a infinite loop the a sequenze in parprogram on emc ?
[18:20:25] <cradek> danimal_garage: good, hope you like it
[18:20:37] <cradek> motioncontrol: yes, but don't load it in AXIS without (AXIS,stop) or whatever it is
[18:21:06] <SWPadnos> O100 while 1
[18:21:09] <SWPadnos> ...
[18:21:30] <motioncontrol> cradek, when i want stop the execution set a abort
[18:21:51] <cradek> motioncontrol: yes, it would run until you abort
[18:22:22] <motioncontrol> o100 while 1, ......., endwhile ?
[18:22:47] <SWPadnos> #<flag>=1 / O100 while #<flag> / /(the conditional execution character)#<flag>=0
[18:22:50] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:23:12] <motioncontrol> ok more thannks for help
[18:23:15] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:00:18] <andypugh> Does anyone know where the messages that scroll past too rapidly to read on system shutdown go to? (not /var/log/messages that's for sure, that is only a very partial record)
[19:00:34] <alex_joni> there is also /var/log/syslog
[19:00:46] <alex_joni> and the output from dmesg (although that's from startup until now)
[19:01:01] <andypugh> It isn't in syslog either
[19:01:55] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[19:01:55] <andypugh> I am trying to see why it generally fails to shut down cleanly and needs a forced shutdown (press and hold power button)
[19:02:40] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[19:58:59] <flexxxv> Anyone knows which of the parallel pins are in and out? different sources mention different pins...
[20:00:53] <pjm> flexxxv i have a URL with these details in the emc integrators manual I think it is
[20:01:20] <flexxxv> ok i'll search there...
[20:02:30] <pjm> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_drivers.html#cap:Parport-In-Diagram
[20:02:54] <pjm> it shows the pins when its configured as I or O
[20:06:14] <flexxxv> thanks that is what i'm looking for
[20:07:15] <flexxxv> Are there only two options? (only input all or output all?)
[20:08:17] <pjm> yeah i think so, although on all out for example, you get a small number of input pins
[20:08:55] <pjm> so 5 input pins and 12 outs
[20:09:08] <pjm> whcih is enough for a 3axis stepper mill for example
[20:09:27] <flexxxv> that is the configuration i'll use :D
[20:09:32] <flexxxv> thanks
[20:10:30] <pjm> great! so its probably worth getting or making a simple parport breakout board
[20:12:05] <flexxxv> yes this will look nicer :D (with some LEDs it will be looking fancy)
[20:12:37] <pjm> heh yes handy for diags
[20:12:52] <flexxxv> I hope all electronics will be delivered soon, so I can start building the boards :D
[20:13:09] <pjm> good. so what type of machine will you make/ connect etc?
[20:14:14] <flexxxv> will be some small homebuild cnc
[20:14:47] <pjm> mill / lathe / robot?
[20:15:22] <flexxxv> A portal milling machine. I'm still looking for some cheap linear slides...
[20:16:14] <pjm> i got most of the c**p for my mill from the local scrap yard
[20:16:28] <pjm> although it took about a year of collecting bits and pieces
[20:16:54] <flexxxv> I asked but they told me they never have :-/
[20:17:28] <flexxxv> but they have aluminum :D
[20:18:39] <flexxxv> But I got some step motors for free from printers (quite big, because the printers were VERY old)
[20:19:02] <pjm> yes there might be some handy linear rails in them too of they are built properly
[20:20:00] <flexxxv> I couldnt find anything strong enough
[20:20:42] <pjm> the problem with linear slides is they are not cheap, maybe you can find something on ebay
[20:20:46] <jackc> thats what my first mill was
[20:20:50] <jackc> motors from pritners
[20:22:11] <flexxxv> ebay is nice (if I would live in US I wouldn't have any problems because right know there some realy nice linear slides)
[20:22:46] <pjm> where are u located?
[20:23:11] <flexxxv> germany
[20:23:30] <pjm> ah cool, i'm over the sea in england
[20:24:00] <flexxxv> I just ordered some Parts from UK a few days ago :D
[20:24:36] <pjm> i found a place about 5 mins up the road that does CNC stuff, motors, steppers etc, but i dont know any employees there yet
[20:25:16] <pjm> www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk i've never used them but handy to have on the doorstep
[21:07:24] <andypugh> Bournemouth is a hotbed of motion products. There is also http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/
[21:07:46] <pjm> ah really, let me see
[21:08:18] <pjm> ah yes zapp automation, its the same company as motioncontrol products
[21:08:29] <andypugh> No it isn't
[21:08:36] <andypugh> I made the same mistake :-)
[21:08:57] <pjm> ah really! LOL
[21:09:12] <pjm> there cant be two useful companies in the same town surely!
[21:09:13] <andypugh> The Zapp chap used to work at MCP, and sells much the same products.
[21:09:25] <pjm> ahh
[21:09:33] <pjm> so its 'nearly' the same company ;-)
[21:09:38] <andypugh> http://www.marchantdice.com/ isn't that far away either.
[21:10:08] <andypugh> Yes, but I got a bit embarassed when I phoned up for support from MCP for stuff I bought from Zapp.
[21:10:40] <pjm> i did take a look at their leadscrews / zero backlash ball nuts
[21:13:16] <pjm> but yeah the zapp automation is probably 10mins drive from me
[21:19:58] <pjm> flexxxv look at http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/used-surplus-stock-c-62.html there is some 'used / old stock' linear rails
[21:21:10] <tarzan_> why not buid backlash nuts?
[21:21:44] <pjm> it is something i need to see if its practical to do
[21:22:02] <pjm> it would be cheaper / quicker than replacing the existing leadscrews etc
[21:22:19] <flexxxv> @pjm: already found some cheaper ones...
[21:22:26] <pjm> okey dokey
[21:23:22] <flexxxv> @tarzan: what do you mean?
[21:39:24] <tarzan_> ball nuts are expensive why not built a spring based one?
[21:41:13] <andypugh> Blimey! http://www.spectacularplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Giant-crystal-cave-8.jpg
[21:42:32] <Vq> andypugh: not very good quality :/
[21:43:09] <andypugh> ?
[21:43:41] <Vq> of the picture
[21:44:01] <andypugh> Hmm, I was more interested in how big they are.
[21:44:27] <andypugh> (And cave photography has challenges)
[21:44:37] <Vq> i was more interested in if it was a forgery
[21:44:55] <andypugh> No, apparently not.
[21:45:14] <andypugh> There was a better picture in New Scientist, which was what set me looking.
[21:45:32] <Vq> low quality photographs always makes me a bit sceptic
[21:45:43] <andypugh> Google naica cave
[21:45:59] <Vq> like all those "proofs" of UFOs
[21:46:33] <andypugh> Do you trust Snopes?
[21:46:33] <andypugh> http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=4142
[21:46:36] <Vq> woa, thats an interesting cave
[21:52:35] <andypugh> Video.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8466493.stm
[22:37:59] <alex_joni> is it wrong to set the alarm clock with crontab -e?
[22:38:35] <Jymmm> what alarm clock?
[22:38:48] <Jymmm> 220VAC relay attached to the bed?
[22:40:06] <alex_joni> nah.. a radio I'm building
[22:41:31] <alex_joni> Jymmm: like this http://mightyohm.com/blog/2008/10/building-a-wifi-radio-part-1-introduction/
[22:42:02] <Jymmm> sure, why not
[22:43:38] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Absolutely amazing http://www.spectacularplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Giant-crystal-cave-8.jpg and the video... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8466493.stm
[22:45:14] <Jymmm> http://www.crystalinks.com/mexicocrystals.html
[22:48:22] <alex_joni> cool
[23:02:44] <andypugh> Not cool at all, 50 degrees (Centigrade!) and 100% humidity
[23:10:07] <alex_joni> andypugh: it's all relative ;)
[23:14:47] <andypugh> pyVCP Widgets, is there a possibility of a dropdown box widget? (I assume they are borrowed standard Python elements, but I don't know what Python has)