#emc | Logs for 2010-01-19

[00:10:22] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:27:28] <Dave911> ds3: I believe that is just a standard European wall outlet plug. I've thrown a bunch of those away - equipment arrives from Europe etc.
[01:43:34] <ds3> Dave911: that is exactly why those are easy to find around here
[02:05:54] <danimal_garage> yawn
[02:06:04] <danimal_garage> it was raining so hard here today
[02:06:19] <danimal_garage> i havent seen rain that bad in a while
[02:43:51] <jepler> someone really needs to make their cnc create "holograms" using this method. http://www.amasci.com/amateur/holo1.html
[02:44:38] <cradek> jepler: I've done that
[02:45:49] <jepler> cradek: oh, you did?
[02:45:51] <jepler> did you show it to me?
[02:46:07] <cradek> not sure - it only sort of worked. I think I still have it.
[02:46:58] <ds3> a spring loaded scribe seems to be the ideal tool for it
[02:47:11] <cradek> yeah I made one just for this task
[02:47:33] <cradek> for substrate I used CD jewel case plastic
[03:01:28] <danimal_garage> cradek: do you know the ratio between hi and lo gears?
[03:01:55] <danimal_garage> my eye tach says somewhere around 3.75:1, but i dont have an encoder on the spindle yet to know for sure
[03:02:57] <jepler> http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/24224
[03:04:46] <danimal_garage> ooh fancyt
[03:04:49] <danimal_garage> -t
[03:07:03] <jepler> from the thread where I ran across that link: > True videophiles use the Wireworld Platinum Starlight HDMI Cable. It cost $1000 per meter but no doubt worth every penny. http://www.gspr.com/wireworld/ps_hdmi.html
[03:09:12] <cradek> danimal_garage:
[03:09:12] <cradek> setp mux2.0.in0 .0040
[03:09:12] <cradek> setp mux2.0.in1 .0154
[03:09:27] <cradek> so 3.85ish?
[03:11:05] <cradek> jepler: only $100 for that outlet
[03:11:17] <danimal_garage> hey i wasnt too far off
[03:11:40] <danimal_garage> thanks
[03:11:53] <cradek> don't assume mine is more right than yours...
[03:12:13] <danimal_garage> i guess i'll know for sure when i get an encoder on there
[03:14:08] <danimal_garage> i used to be into audiophile stuff
[03:14:17] <danimal_garage> but got too rich for my blood
[03:35:10] <_And1> hi
[03:35:12] <danimal_garage> cool just got my coolant working
[03:35:18] <danimal_garage> hi and1
[03:35:26] <_And1> ^_^
[03:35:33] <cradek> did you find a little vfd?
[03:36:05] <_And1> i need AC servo drive in low price, thats works with servotogo, any sugestion
[03:36:07] <_And1> ?
[03:36:08] <danimal_garage> i had a big one from my mill that kept giving me hardware faults, so i took it apart and foyund a bunch of ships in it
[03:36:22] <danimal_garage> cleaned it out and it works fine
[03:36:55] <danimal_garage> it's a 3hp one, a bit overkill, so i'll probably buy a small one and put this one on my bridgeport
[03:37:10] <danimal_garage> but for now it works fine
[03:37:15] <_And1> 1kw ac servo motor
[03:38:01] <danimal_garage> thats a good sized motor and1, not sure how cheap it'll be. did you check ebay?
[03:38:32] <_And1> could u give me a keyword clue?
[03:39:31] <danimal_garage> i'm the wrong person to ask, but i'd just google ac servo drive or amp
[03:39:54] <danimal_garage> look for one that's the appropriate size
[03:40:18] <danimal_garage> i think you need one that'll take +-10v
[03:40:39] <danimal_garage> if you want it to work with emc
[03:45:15] <_And1> true
[03:45:24] <_And1> +-10v yes
[03:48:43] <_And1> whats servo did u use?
[03:49:28] <_And1> is dc servo = bldc motor(brushless dc motor)?
[03:49:55] <danimal_garage> there are brushed and brushless dc motors
[03:50:16] <danimal_garage> i have brushed dc motors, but they came on my lathe, and are over 30 years old
[03:51:22] <danimal_garage> cradek: did you say you use soybean oil in your lathe for coolant?
[03:58:01] <_And1> bldc = like on our PC 12v fan
[03:58:59] <_And1> or on our old A:> fdd disk drive, or on our HDD disk
[03:59:17] <_And1> :)
[04:04:32] <_And1> i think brushed dc motor is strongest ?
[04:06:52] <_And1> could us control 3ph AC servo with ordinary inverter?
[04:07:38] <_And1> (we use to control 3ph ac servo with 3ph ac drives)
[04:10:42] <danimal_garage> i dont know
[04:10:55] <danimal_garage> for a spindle or an axis?
[04:11:07] <_And1> axis
[04:11:25] <danimal_garage> i doubt it would be accurate if it did work
[04:21:08] <danimal_garage> my motor still doesnt have much torque in the lathe. i wonder if it's damaged from the brake dragging before?
[04:22:00] <Dave911> jepler: Where do you find this stuff... I thought you were joking about $1000 HDMI cables! $99 AC outlets?? These people actually sell these things?? That is incredible.
[04:22:27] <danimal_garage> audiophiles are a strange breed
[04:23:10] <danimal_garage> i've known a few that had hundreds of thousands into their audio, and rented an appartment and drove a crappy car
[04:28:22] <danimal_garage> http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm
[04:28:51] <danimal_garage> a mere $2,000,000 for a set of speakers
[04:34:32] <Dave911> When I went to college back in the late 70's there was a guy living down the hall in the dorm who has stereo system that cost at least 10 times what my car cost at the time. I didn't get it.
[04:34:34] <Dave911> He'd drop a $1000 for the latest receiver in a heartbeat. $2M for a set of speakers.. For that much money they should inject the sound signals directly into my brain. Forget about using obsolete ear drums etc. :-)
[04:38:23] <danimal_garage> ha
[04:38:38] <danimal_garage> good idea
[04:38:46] <danimal_garage> can emc do that?
[04:50:12] <Dave911> Perhaps we should try .... ;-)
[04:50:58] <danimal_garage> i agree
[04:51:32] <danimal_garage> ugh, i've begun the painstaking task of cleaning the shop
[05:00:24] <Dave911> Good luck with that.... gotta go.. good night!
[05:02:33] <danimal_garage> nite!
[05:21:35] <_And1> good day
[05:21:58] <_And1> (its a world wide internet)
[05:23:06] <danimal_garage> where are you?
[05:26:29] <_And1> bali
[05:26:54] <_And1> it's still in the middle of day
[05:27:07] <danimal_garage> cool
[05:27:19] <danimal_garage> it's 9:30pm here
[05:27:19] <_And1> sun shine beautifully here
[05:27:36] <danimal_garage> in southern california, usa
[05:27:37] <_And1> its 12:30
[05:27:49] <_And1> Cool
[05:28:13] <_And1> haha
[05:28:23] <_And1> nice to meet u
[05:28:32] <danimal_garage> nice to meet you too!
[05:31:37] <_And1> i can speak here in a second. in thousands mile of distance.
[05:32:12] <_And1> speed of light
[05:32:13] <danimal_garage> much more than 1000 miles
[05:32:19] <_And1> hohoho
[05:32:49] <_And1> we shere sun and moon together
[05:33:43] <danimal_garage> probably 12,000 miles
[05:34:23] <ds3> 8
[05:36:01] <danimal_garage> 8000 miles?
[05:36:27] <_And1> 8 mS in irc hahaha
[05:36:34] <danimal_garage> i was only 50% off :)
[05:36:56] <_And1> ^_^
[06:07:14] <_And1> i gotta go, my friend waiting outside... thanks to u all
[07:25:51] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[07:32:22] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[08:36:25] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[09:27:44] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[09:31:38] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[10:15:03] <acemi> I have an addon PCI parallel port with sun1888 chipset. I can't switch its mode to EPP. Writing 0x80 to base+0x402 doesn't work. anybody has an idea about this issue?
[10:24:51] <piasdom> g'morning all
[13:04:05] <jepler> Dave911: those links came from http://www.metafilter.com/88403/Lexicon-BD30 where they were making fun of audiophile stuff
[13:09:35] <archivist_emc> I used to joke to an audiophile that he should get gold plated mains plugs assuming they would never be made, but they were later!
[13:15:42] <Jymmm> did he get them?
[13:16:10] <archivist_emc> dunno
[13:18:03] <archivist_emc> but this is a hoot http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp
[13:18:36] <toastydeath> does anyone know any popular store chains that sell cheap paintballs
[13:18:59] <archivist_emc> ebay
[13:20:16] <toastydeath> ooh.
[13:20:20] <toastydeath> i had not thought of that
[13:23:04] <toastydeath> hm, not bad
[13:30:54] <Jymmm> big 5?
[13:31:00] <Jymmm> sportsmart?
[13:31:21] <Jymmm> archivist_emc: That's just pathetic
[13:31:32] <archivist_emc> what
[13:31:34] <toastydeath> I think there's a dick's sporting goods around here
[13:31:43] <Jymmm> $500 CAT5e cable
[13:31:53] <toastydeath> this one place used to sell a huge 5 gal pail full of them for like 30 bucks, but they closed
[13:32:11] <archivist_emc> its called taking money from idiots(audiophiles)
[13:32:27] <toastydeath> haha
[13:32:29] <Jymmm> wait, my bad, cat6
[13:33:41] <archivist_emc> I saw inside a Gucci watch, its was a cheap quartz movement
[13:36:07] <Jymmm> Should ht a retail store act all giddy saying I'm looking for 4 of those cables, rattle off some bullshit and see how much of a scumbag the salesperson really is
[13:39:07] <archivist_emc> or ask said scumbag if a $5 cable will damage the equipment
[13:55:44] <automata_amit> hi
[13:56:23] <automata_amit> I am trying to compile emc2 from source and have run into a problem...
[13:57:05] <automata_amit> I have installed the required packages: libpth-dev tcl8.5-dev tk8.5-dev bwidget libxaw7-dev libreadline5-dev python-dev libglu1-mesa-dev ibxinerama-dev
[13:58:16] <automata_amit> I ran ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[13:59:37] <automata_amit> and everything went well... got a message saying: ./configure completed successfully
[13:59:46] <automata_amit> I ran make.
[14:00:28] <automata_amit> However, make stalls at a command: none -k (whole bunch of files here)... not sure what to try next...
[14:06:56] <automata_amit> oops my bad... That problem sorted itself out... just ran ./configure and make again...
[14:31:17] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:50:33] <ries> anybody happen to know if pycam has a website?
[14:51:21] <SWPadnos> this is the first google hit for me: http://pycam.wiki.sourceforge.net/
[14:58:00] <ries> SWPadnos: I did found that... but I mean a real website, there is no information on there, there website points back to : http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycam/develop
[14:58:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, it looks like there may not be one
[14:59:35] <ries> ok.. just needed ot be sure :)
[15:04:58] <ries> I think I will download the code and take a look at it..
[15:52:30] <tom3p> theres a new format tablet designed for medical use, held like a doctor holds a clipboard. nice design, here's an atom based one http://www.advantech.com/products/MICA-101/mod_1-2ZYDKY.aspx
[15:52:58] <bassogigas> where can i change file opened by default in emc2 (axis.ngc)?
[15:53:40] <tom3p> its hardly new, but its a good idea ( you could hold any tablet that way, & dock it to a kbd/mouse)
[15:53:57] <tom3p> bassogigas: ini file i think
[15:54:08] <bassogigas> тщзу
[15:54:11] <bassogigas> nope
[15:54:23] <bassogigas> i wasn't asking then )
[15:54:52] <tom3p> and its not there either
[15:56:35] <bassogigas> it has to be in axis somewhere but where
[15:56:56] <bassogigas> i do not use Z and it always shows me error window
[16:00:57] <SWPadnos> bassogigas, [DISPLAY]OPEN_FILE is the ini setting
[16:01:44] <SWPadnos> or set the environment variable AXIS_OPEN_FILE
[16:02:01] <tom3p> /usr/share/axis/images
[16:02:12] <tom3p> might be hard coded
[16:02:34] <bassogigas> i know where this file is located ) no it's not just comment all Z's )
[16:02:44] <SWPadnos> those are the button icons and such, not the file to load
[16:03:07] <SWPadnos> I just looked at the AXIS code to find the settings I mentioned
[16:03:09] <bassogigas> SWPadnos, thank you
[16:03:12] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:04:43] <tom3p> and its hard coded in ~/youremcinstall/bin/axis
[16:05:18] <tom3p> thwre's a lathe version depending on.. well look at the python code in ^^^
[16:06:08] <SWPadnos> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py;h=15b8f780079fcd310d6ab3784dac41eec49860f4;hb=HEAD
[16:06:17] <tom3p> yes axis.ngc is in that dir ( goofy but there )
[16:06:23] <SWPadnos> lines 3903-3914
[16:06:58] <SWPadnos> AXIS looks for a command-line argument, then an environment variable, then an ini setting, then a file dependent on lathe or mill mode
[16:08:03] <SWPadnos> ok, breakfast time for me. bbl
[16:08:22] <tom3p> and the file is axis not axis.py, this is just different installs lines3896 "else:
[16:08:22] <tom3p> initialfile = os.path.join(BASE, "share", "axis", "images", "axis.ngc")"
[16:09:37] <SWPadnos> yes - if nothing else is found in the other settings, then the axis.ngc file is used
[16:10:06] <tom3p> SWPadnos: can it be cahnged on command line? then bassogigas can just wrap the launcher
[16:10:19] <SWPadnos> it's probably easier to use the ini file setting
[16:11:00] <SWPadnos> but yes, if there are still arguments remaining (the if args clause), then the next one will be the file loaded
[16:11:23] <SWPadnos> presumably, the other arguments, such as the ini file location, are removed as they're used
[16:11:40] <tom3p> "AXIS_OPEN_FILE"] ok bassogigas just add one to your .ini
[16:11:57] <tom3p> thx SWPadnos
[16:11:57] <bassogigas> OPEN_FILE works ok
[16:12:02] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:12:03] <bassogigas> too
[16:12:11] <SWPadnos> *NOW* it's time for breakfast :)
[16:12:19] <bassogigas> where are you from?
[16:12:27] <bassogigas> i'm almost sleeping )
[16:12:41] <tom3p> Me, Chicago, you?
[16:12:46] <SWPadnos> Vermont, but I got in from Los Angeles late last night
[16:12:47] <bassogigas> Minsk
[16:13:20] <tom3p> wow, good to have you here in emc2
[16:14:16] <tom3p> mnhck (almost)
[16:15:18] <Bosko> Hello everyone. Any guru there, please??
[16:15:48] <archivist_emc> depends on subject
[16:16:01] <archivist_emc> just ask the real question
[16:16:17] <Bosko> Firs, anyone creating that peace of work got 10+ by me.
[16:16:30] <Bosko> Or helping create it.
[16:18:43] <Bosko> Ok. I have got played with virtual control panels in EMC. Got few samples frmom net, and yes, with version 2.2.8. it worked well. After upgrading to 2.3.4. it stops to work, and message is:
[16:19:29] <Bosko> halvcp.hal:1: execv(halvcp) failed
[16:19:50] <Bosko> halvcp.hal:1: execv exited without becoming ready
[16:19:54] <Bosko> 6949
[16:20:01] <Bosko> Where to search?
[16:20:26] <dan1mal> @cradek: what coolant did you say you use? soybean oil?
[16:22:54] <Bosko> Anyone has an idea?
[16:23:31] <tom3p> Bosko: i just searched a working system and it has no halvcp. i think halvcp is old and pyvcp is new
[16:25:38] <tom3p> wrong, i just did a 'loadusr halvcp' from a running emc2. i dont know where the file is, i suspect its not a file tho.
[16:25:44] <Bosko> tom3p:So i need to search for pyvcp. How to crete it. Im good at VB6 in Windows, but in linux im .... But i will go into as i have foud it to be really system of the future.
[16:25:56] <tom3p> Bosko: ^^^
[16:26:23] <Bosko> tom3p ??? What it mean..
[16:28:01] <tom3p> read the above as in up ^^^ but i'll try to run the examples on http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_vcp.html to check your problem
[16:28:32] <cradek> dan1mal: I think this is what I have: http://www.performancebiolubes.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.pbl_browse&category_id=9&Itemid=19&product_id=42
[16:28:48] <cradek> I bought it from the manufacturer (elmusa.com) at the time though
[16:29:14] <dan1mal> youch!
[16:29:28] <dan1mal> thats as much or more than trim sol
[16:29:34] <dan1mal> works good though?
[16:29:37] <cradek> yeah, $100 for 5 gal
[16:29:55] <cradek> yes it's great. no unpleasant smell either. that was a big consideration for me.
[16:30:01] <dan1mal> nice
[16:30:17] <dan1mal> yea, since my shop is attached to the house, same here
[16:30:19] <cradek> I tried using tractor hydraulic oil first - big mistake
[16:30:27] <cradek> yes, you want this stuff then
[16:30:32] <dan1mal> how does it wipe/wash off the parts?
[16:30:51] <Bosko> You Dear guys. I think i need to read and study for fey days more. Thanks for your help, Best
[16:30:52] <cradek> need soap
[16:31:30] <dan1mal> hmm
[16:31:31] <cradek> I usually don't wash stuff, I just wipe it off with a rag. but to really get all the oil off you'd have to was with soap
[16:31:34] <cradek> it's vegetable oil, after all
[16:31:39] <dan1mal> yea
[16:31:56] <dan1mal> btw, i think i'm still having spindle motor issues
[16:31:59] <cradek> I've even knurled with it. it's good stuff.
[16:32:20] <dan1mal> i tried taking a small cut in aluminum and it slowed down a bit
[16:32:50] <dan1mal> plus it takes forever to ramp up, and i have the accel set to 3 seconds
[16:32:59] <cradek> I think I've had it in my sump for about two years now. I haven't noticed that it has degraded yet. still smells the same too.
[16:33:08] <tom3p> Bosko: someone else will have to help you, i just got 2 segfaults trying to run that example, so dont try that information :(
[16:33:15] <tom3p> i gotta clean up
[16:33:26] <dan1mal> nice, i'll see if my tool guy can get it, thanks
[16:33:31] <cradek> dan1mal: is it the motor or the spindle?
[16:33:39] <dan1mal> spindle spinds freely
[16:33:51] <dan1mal> i am wondering how long the brake was dragging
[16:34:01] <dan1mal> and if it burned up the motor a bit
[16:34:02] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[16:34:14] <dan1mal> spins freely even in gear
[16:34:33] <cradek> you'd think the vfd would fault if there was something grossly wrong with the motor
[16:34:43] <dan1mal> yea true
[16:35:01] <dan1mal> it wont even run above 60hz without almost stalling
[16:35:16] <dan1mal> i'm gunna check the vfd first
[16:35:26] <cradek> did you take off the mystery black box reactor thingies?
[16:35:36] <dan1mal> yes
[16:37:26] <tom3p> Bosko: the vcp >is< old style, new panels are described in xml, and .vcp is depricated. so, translate your .vcp to .xml and try using pyvcp
[16:37:50] <dan1mal> i'm running the vfd on single phase. i'm gunna hook it up to 3 phase to see if it helps. but i'd think it would have an error if it was struggling though
[16:42:41] <tom3p> Bosko: better for you http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_pyvcp.html
[16:43:39] <Bosko> tom3p, thank you, R right. Im just reading it and yes, it is the state of the art.. i wish i would be in position to contribute someday..
[16:50:12] <danimal_garage> it's drawing over 9a at startup
[16:50:16] <danimal_garage> 3 phase didnt help
[16:50:20] <danimal_garage> hmm
[16:52:59] <tom3p> finally, back to bassogigas:, i edited the .ini in the [DISPLAY] section, added OPEN_FILE = /home/tomp/emc2-dev/nc_files/nc01-gcad3d-test01.ngc that works, but it seems to require a fqfn (full file spec)
[16:55:41] <tom3p> why is my real name purple? i never chose that Real name: purple and why am i coming in thru france ?? Server: barjavel.freenode.net (Paris, FR, EU)
[16:58:42] <danimal_garage> cradek: it takes about 14 seconds for full ramp up, completely bypassing the vfd
[16:58:57] <cradek> hooked directly to 3 phase?
[16:59:00] <danimal_garage> yes
[16:59:05] <cradek> that's totally wrong :-)
[16:59:53] <danimal_garage> i can spin the spindle freely by hand, there isnt any drag
[17:00:00] <danimal_garage> i think the motor is bad
[17:01:54] <danimal_garage> yea, something's gotta be wrong...my manual lathe has fdar more drag and mass to start than this thing, and the manual lathe is single phase, 1hp
[17:02:08] <danimal_garage> and that ramps up pretty damn quick
[17:03:00] <danimal_garage> i'll pick up a motor at the surplus yard later, they're only $20 or so there
[17:04:42] <danimal_garage> i have a 3hp one here, but it's 340rpm
[17:04:52] <danimal_garage> 3450*
[17:05:41] <danimal_garage> i'd just crank down the vari speed drive, but i dont think my vfd can handle that motor in single phase mode
[17:05:54] <danimal_garage> it's only a 3hp drive
[18:03:41] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[18:40:08] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[18:42:40] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[18:44:00] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[18:44:21] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[18:45:41] <L84Supper2> L84Supper2 is now known as L84Supper
[19:10:41] <livid> livid is now known as alx_m
[19:36:04] <tom3p> just built some comps. then ran make. it reported 4 new man pages. but i cant man these comps. neither man nor man 9 find them. there is no separate man dir for rip installs. ideas?
[19:36:23] <ries> are there any visual g-code editors, I like to edit my g-code, then see right away visually what I am doing, this to learn gcode a bit...
[19:36:52] <bassogigas> in gedit there's syntax highlighting
[19:37:51] <bassogigas> oh, _visual_? sorry, no
[19:38:11] <ries> bassogigas: But not visualization... right? I am only interested in the path, not how it would actually cut out in material like vericut.
[19:38:28] <tom3p> ah, there is localized man pages ~/youremc2rip/src/depends/man9
[19:43:05] <tom3p> make that ... ah, there are localized man pages ~/youremc2rip/docs/man/man9
[19:45:05] <micges> tom3p: how complete are your hal generation in gschem?
[19:45:58] <tom3p> micges, not, but did you look at it?
[19:46:30] <tom3p> i see that i need a monitor as big as a wall to view the schematics :(
[19:46:55] <tom3p> its workable, but i dont think anyone has tried using it
[19:47:08] <micges> I'm working on the same in eagle
[19:47:45] <tom3p> hmm, there was some work done in eagle, why eagle instead of gEDA?
[19:47:57] <micges> I'm trying to make whole hal from script which is hard
[19:48:09] <micges> becouse we use eagle and I know it
[19:48:13] <SWPadnos> tom3p, the manpath is set by the emc-environment script, I think
[19:48:19] <SWPadnos> altered anyway
[19:48:21] <tom3p> did you see the output on the webpage
[19:48:43] <tom3p> SWPadnos: :) i got man -l grtrS32 to work ( local )
[19:49:04] <tom3p> micges: did you see the output on the wiki page?
[19:49:08] <SWPadnos> was that a numeral one or a lower case L?
[19:49:12] <tom3p> ell
[19:49:14] <SWPadnos> (silly font here)
[19:49:17] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:49:18] <tom3p> here 2
[19:50:02] <micges> tom3p: I see it
[19:50:17] <tom3p> micges, can you highlight a net? name a net? rubberband well?
[19:50:45] <micges> yes, yes, translating...
[19:52:56] <micges> I don't unerstand last expression
[19:53:43] <tom3p> rubberband is the abil;ity to move a component and have the nets stay attached. like an elastic.
[19:53:44] <micges> tom3p: my is workable but I don't have idea how to add mesa to it
[19:54:08] <micges> oh so then third is yes
[19:54:10] <tom3p> i made a mesa component , it was just big. one for each version
[19:54:32] <tom3p> maybe we can work on one idea
[19:54:55] <tom3p> i've tried both ( and many more )
[19:55:44] <micges> I'm adapting eagle to make whole hal for our (rather complicated) configs
[19:56:26] <micges> I can make about 60% nest from 300 lines hal
[19:57:33] <micges> nets*
[20:16:00] <dan1mal> w00t scored at the surplus yard today
[20:17:06] <cradek> dan1mal: yay! what did you get us?
[20:17:33] <dan1mal> got a small vfd, and a nice hoffman enclosure full of power supplies
[20:17:42] <cradek> neat
[20:18:55] <dan1mal> i'm gunna use the enclosure on my mill, it'll fit m motherboard, ps, drives, mesa boards, and stepper drives
[20:19:26] <dan1mal> already has a fan and a filter
[20:20:06] <dan1mal> it has like half a dozen or more power supplies in it, including some 12v+-, which i'm going to replace the 15v one with in the lathe
[20:20:27] <dan1mal> that way i can use it for the servo amps as well, and i wont have to use the pc's PS
[20:21:28] <dan1mal> and now that i know my other 3hp vfd works, i'm putting that on my bridgeport and using this little one i got for the coolant pump on the lathe
[20:23:15] <dan1mal> so i can control my bridgeport's spindle speed with a pot
[20:23:55] <ds3> or you could attach a stepper to the speed control handle on a variable speed bridge port head ;)
[20:24:24] <dan1mal> thats how my shizuoka was, but i put a vfd on it
[20:24:39] <dan1mal> my bridgeport has step pulleys
[20:24:45] <SWPadnos> the vari-speed adjuster actually allows you to get more power to the cutter, especially at low speeds
[20:25:17] <cradek> yeah you can't beat the varispeed
[20:25:22] <ds3> anything to get away from step pulley
[20:25:22] <SWPadnos> if you have a motor that can go significantly faster than the 1800RPM the BP expects (I think), then you should set the belt to the lowest or second-lowest speed, and overspeed the motor
[20:25:30] <SWPadnos> that keeps it in the constant power region
[20:25:32] <cradek> yeah, step pulleys suck
[20:25:48] <dan1mal> the motor on my bridgport is a 2 speed
[20:25:55] <ds3> SWPadnos: don't you run into belt slippage issues with that?
[20:26:14] <SWPadnos> ds3, yes, on both step pulley and vari-speed heads
[20:26:38] <dan1mal> SWPadnos: on my shizuoka, i put it right in the middle of the range on my vari speed
[20:26:49] <dan1mal> seems to work fine
[20:26:57] <Jymmm> dan1mal: gazoontight
[20:27:09] <SWPadnos> ok, if you don't use low spindle speeds, it doesn't really matter
[20:27:15] <dan1mal> did i sneeze?
[20:27:32] <dan1mal> na, i mostly cut with smaller cutters on the mill
[20:27:42] <SWPadnos> but you should know that VFDs are constant-torque devices below the rated speed of the motor, which means that you get lower power (= torque*speed) at lower speeds
[20:27:45] <Jymmm> dan1mal: dan1mal: SWPadnos: on my shizuoka, <---- right there
[20:27:58] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, gesundheit
[20:28:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: thank you
[20:28:07] <ds3> so run the spindle faster and use carbide
[20:28:07] <dan1mal> SWPadnos: i have a flux vector vfd
[20:28:08] <SWPadnos> any time
[20:28:19] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't matter
[20:28:24] <ds3> keeps it in the higher speed region... this works for DC PM motors
[20:28:34] <SWPadnos> the motor is designed for a certain current, which is proportional to torque
[20:29:17] <SWPadnos> a VFD shouldn't overcurrent the motor, so it will limit the motor to the nominal full speed torque torque at lower speeds
[20:29:33] <SWPadnos> -torque
[20:29:39] <SWPadnos> torque torque baby
[20:30:03] <dan1mal> i think the BP will be fine since it's a 2hp motor
[20:30:29] <dan1mal> what would you do given the fact that it has a 2 speed motor?
[20:30:59] <SWPadnos> I'd think about it more :)
[20:31:03] <dan1mal> would it have more/less torque in hi or lo range?
[20:31:19] <SWPadnos> more torque in the low range, since it's roughly constant power
[20:31:57] <SWPadnos> which will be reduced when it goes faster (due to higher frequency power)
[20:32:23] <SWPadnos> I guess I'd use the low mode, and switch to high if it seems to work strangely
[20:33:01] <ds3> do all VFDs allow reversing? IIRC, the BP low/high modes change direction
[20:33:31] <SWPadnos> I'd bet that they all do, but I don't know for sure
[20:34:15] <dan1mal> so would it make more sense to: A, leave the switch in low, move belt accordingly, increase hz over 60 with vfd for higher speeds, or B, leave switch in hi, reduce the pulley ratio to be similar to the speed of the low setting of the motor, and increase hz over 60 with the vfd for higher speeds?
[20:34:27] <ds3> wonder if that can be done instantly
[20:34:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:34:40] <ds3> (for tapping)
[20:34:43] <dan1mal> crap, ds3 brings up a good point
[20:34:58] <dan1mal> i do ALOT of power tapping in the bp
[20:35:00] <SWPadnos> I don't know that the back gear should be run that fast
[20:35:23] <dan1mal> SWPadnos, i'm not talking about the hi or low gear, the motor itself actually has 2 speeds
[20:35:31] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:35:56] <dan1mal> 1700 and 3400, controlled with a switch
[20:36:04] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure the motor can be run in low speed mode, since the VFD will reduce current as it goes faster to maintain the HP rating
[20:36:17] <SWPadnos> right, and the bearings can clearly handle the higher speed
[20:36:22] <dan1mal> yea
[20:36:38] <ds3> aren't the dual speed setting done by changing how the coils are connected in the motor?
[20:36:52] <dan1mal> ds3: must be
[20:37:04] <SWPadnos> yes, but it also goes backwards in that mode
[20:37:11] <dan1mal> not on mine
[20:37:18] <dan1mal> unless the switch reverses it as well
[20:37:21] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. I have a manual mill that does need that
[20:37:42] <SWPadnos> yes, hi vs. lo on the motor switch reverses
[20:37:56] <SWPadnos> as does the high/low gear change lever
[20:38:32] <dan1mal> yea... i think my switch actually reverses the phases as well, since it still stays in the same direction when switching from hi to lo
[20:38:54] <SWPadnos> I wonder if, at least on mine, the high low switch electrically reverses the motor rotation *because* there's an extra gear in the low speed path
[20:40:07] <dan1mal> how about this scenario... i think the motor on my lathe might be bad. it's like 1200rpm, 2hp. i have a 3hp motor, but it's 3400 rpm
[20:40:47] <dan1mal> can i just bring the vari drive down to approx a little less than half of what it is now, and it will essentially be the same?
[20:41:20] <dan1mal> i'm hoping it'll spool up a little faster
[20:43:36] <dan1mal> i cant think of anything that i'll be sacraficing
[20:43:42] <dan1mal> but i'm no expert
[20:45:07] <Jymmm> dan1mal: virgins
[20:45:28] <dan1mal> in san diego?
[20:45:36] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Start with jt-plasma
[20:45:48] <dan1mal> hhaha
[20:46:10] <dan1mal> yea, i'll have to mail order one, no virgins around here
[20:46:43] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Run for the border!
[20:47:00] <dan1mal> DEFINITELY no virgins down there
[20:47:28] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Not TJ, more Like Rosarita Beach
[20:47:59] <dan1mal> never made it past tj
[20:48:50] <Jymmm> I guess he took me literally.
[20:49:20] <dan1mal> oh you werent serious?
[20:49:29] <dan1mal> i already started packing
[20:49:52] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Well, since you're packed, here's teh list of drugs I need you to pick up
[20:50:26] <Jymmm> dan1mal: any pharmacy will have them
[20:50:27] <dan1mal> viagra
[20:51:47] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Nah, just morphine and anti-histamine in epi pens
[20:51:59] <dan1mal> ha
[20:52:04] <Jymmm> or and lydocain
[20:52:40] <Jymmm> forget the morphine I'll take the lydocain instead
[20:53:08] <dan1mal> why not both?
[20:53:29] <Jymmm> morphine has to be refrigerated and only has a 6month shelf life
[20:55:31] <dan1mal> i'm really not sure why you know so much about narcotics
[20:56:13] <Jymmm> Research
[20:56:41] <dan1mal> i see
[20:56:56] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Actually things that should be in a disaster kit.
[20:57:38] <Jymmm> I really would like morphine in an epi pen, but shelf life bites
[20:57:50] <dan1mal> http://cgi.ebay.com/Strongarm-Operator-Interface-15-1-Display-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ150405494057QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2304ddb529
[20:57:58] <dan1mal> that would be pimp for my machine
[21:00:39] <Jymmm> dan1mal: If you ever get a chance, watch "I shouldn't be alive" sometime
[21:02:17] <dan1mal> were you on there?
[21:02:30] <Jymmm> heh, no
[21:02:53] <dan1mal> i dont have sat anymore :(
[21:02:54] <Jymmm> The only TV celebrity we have here would be SWPadnos
[21:03:02] <dan1mal> really
[21:03:05] <dan1mal> cops?
[21:03:13] <Jymmm> ROTF
[21:03:32] <dan1mal> <-------jerry springer
[21:03:50] <Jymmm> dan1mal: Nazi midget wrestler #2 ?
[21:04:35] <dan1mal> no, "i found out my cousin was a transvestite, so we're getting a divorce"
[21:05:32] <dan1mal> i wonder if i can use a ceramic heating element in my anodizing tank
[21:05:59] <Jymmm> why not quartz?
[21:06:09] <ries> hey All, anybody got a clue how to solve this one? http://pastebin.com/d55771c9d I am wondering what configure really is looking for
[21:06:45] <dan1mal> i dunno, are they common?
[21:07:21] <Jymmm> dan1mal: toaster ovens usualy have four of them, but I forgot you have to submerge them in acid's
[21:08:39] <SWPadnos> what, where
[21:09:10] <Jymmm> dan1mal: It's actually a nice toaster oven too... http://www.target.com/Black-Decker-Countertop-Toaster-Oven/dp/B00130399K/sr=1-4/qid=1263935316/ref=sr_1_4/186-0334663-4297942?ie=UTF8&search-alias=tgt-index&frombrowse=0&index=target&rh=k%3Atoaster%20oven&page=1
[21:09:15] <SWPadnos> ries, it's looking for the BWidget toolkit
[21:09:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You, grammys, emmys, sumtin like that
[21:09:41] <SWPadnos> Golden Globes two days ago
[21:09:48] <dan1mal> SWPadnos, you won a golden globe?
[21:09:49] <SWPadnos> and Grammys on the 31st
[21:09:54] <SWPadnos> no
[21:10:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you record it?
[21:10:04] <ries> SWPadnos: Yeaa I found it.. I thought it was looking for tclsh8.4... I also did a locate for BWidget and I did see file... so I thought it was installed... but apparently not...
[21:10:08] <SWPadnos> but I did run a camera that photographed a bunch of famous people
[21:10:59] <dan1mal> neato
[21:11:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Tux tshirt?
[21:11:25] <dan1mal> canadian tuxido
[21:11:31] <SWPadnos> no, there was a mixup
[21:11:37] <SWPadnos> and I didn't need one
[21:11:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ah
[21:11:55] <dan1mal> denim shirt, denim jeans, denim jacket.
[21:12:01] <SWPadnos> the rain started just before the stars all started arriving. it was fun :)
[21:12:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: did they pose for you?
[21:12:20] <dan1mal> i bet
[21:12:23] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:12:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: cool, get any good ones?
[21:12:58] <dan1mal> SWPadnos: did you see my question on my lathe motor?
[21:13:58] <SWPadnos> phone
[21:14:00] <dan1mal> <dan1mal> how about this scenario... i think the motor on my lathe might be bad. it's like 1200rpm, 2hp. i have a 3hp motor, but it's 3400 rpm
[21:14:01] <dan1mal> <dan1mal> can i just bring the vari drive down to approx a little less than half of what it is now, and it will essentially be the same?
[21:14:04] <dan1mal> ah ok
[21:14:32] <SWPadnos> http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/redcarpet/games/glamcam/index.jsp?categories=2010_golden_globes
[21:15:56] <SWPadnos> wow. the site seems really slow
[21:16:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It pre-loads ALL the photos
[21:16:17] <SWPadnos> dan1mal, is that the vari-drive on the lathe you're talking about?
[21:16:31] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'll have to mention that to the web guys
[21:16:36] <SWPadnos> bad web guys
[21:16:47] <dan1mal> SWPadnos: yes
[21:16:54] <Jymmm> The last one is cool... popcorn in the air
[21:17:04] <SWPadnos> Zachary Levi (plays Chuck)
[21:17:25] <SWPadnos> dan1mal, I don't know. The bearings on the input side of the vari-speed wouldn't be expecting that speed
[21:17:41] <dan1mal> hmm
[21:17:45] <SWPadnos> it's probably fine, but not designed for that
[21:17:57] <dan1mal> yea
[21:18:00] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, there are a lot more, the arrows navigate the thumbnails
[21:18:20] <SWPadnos> Neal Patrick Harris had the best one (again)
[21:18:24] <dan1mal> i guess neither would the hi and low gear clutches
[21:18:27] <SWPadnos> he was spitting out champaigne
[21:18:34] <SWPadnos> right
[21:19:03] <SWPadnos> I thought it was really cool to get Sigourney Weaver, Glenn Close, and Sandra Bullock in there
[21:19:25] <SWPadnos> and I'm now one degree away from Kevin Bacon, since he did it too :)
[21:19:31] <SWPadnos> (or is that zero?)
[21:19:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you had to talk them into it?
[21:20:01] <SWPadnos> oh right - Mariah Carey was another name I actually recognized :)
[21:20:12] <SWPadnos> no, I was "the man behind the curtain"
[21:20:25] <SWPadnos> but someone did - they had 5 or 6 "talent wranglers" on the red carpet
[21:20:35] <SWPadnos> Paul McCartney almost came in, same with George Clooney
[21:20:45] <dan1mal> cool
[21:21:04] <SWPadnos> Ricky Gervais did too (though a few cameras didn't fire that time, and he didn't stick around for a second shot)
[21:21:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what was the problem?
[21:21:49] <SWPadnos> well, we were outside, while it was raining
[21:22:06] <SWPadnos> so I'm hoping it was a humidity thing. but I have some software and hardware testing to do this week
[21:22:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: in the camera or pc?
[21:22:47] <SWPadnos> the trigger system
[21:22:54] <SWPadnos> that's separate from the PC
[21:22:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ah
[21:23:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: dip it in tooldip =)
[21:23:18] <SWPadnos> WD-40!
[21:23:23] <SWPadnos> that's got water displacement
[21:23:54] <Jymmm> I like the tooldip idea better
[21:23:54] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: very cool
[21:24:42] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc is still loading.......
[21:24:52] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah. it is slow as hell
[21:25:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: are the cameras fast enough?
[21:25:25] <SWPadnos> yeah, in our testing, we were shooting every second or two
[21:25:37] <SWPadnos> all the frames are on the server in 2 seconds or so
[21:26:06] <Jymmm> cool
[21:26:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: who is "Mix Tape Inc" ?
[21:26:52] <SWPadnos> hmmm. actually, that's really good. it's about 50% fill factor on the gigE line, and that's with multiple hops through the switches plus the USB transfer time
[21:26:56] <Jymmm> the Big Breeeze
[21:27:12] <ries> if I configure with --enable-simulator, would it still need the headers of rtai?
[21:27:17] <SWPadnos> mix tape is a group that includes one person that used to work at the Big Freeze
[21:31:16] <cradek> ries: no
[21:46:10] <flbmtlcnc> howdy
[21:46:42] <micges> hi
[21:49:56] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/19/chaos_robots/
[21:56:45] <ries> SWPadnos: Hmm ok, strange because it's asking for it
[22:02:56] <danimal_garage> is a 3 phase rf filter worth using on my spindle, since i have one?
[22:03:06] <danimal_garage> (pre-vfd)
[22:04:12] <archivist_emc> may stop noise being induced in the control
[22:04:33] <andypugh> Probably, should hep with noise. But test it first if you have an RCD
[22:05:16] <danimal_garage> rcd?
[22:05:43] <danimal_garage> i picked up a vfd today at the surplus yard and it had a big rf filter on it
[22:05:46] <andypugh> Earth leakage breaker
[22:06:07] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[22:07:22] <Jymmm> Even if your not into RF, this is just cool...
[22:07:24] <Jymmm> http://www.dxhound.com/KGO%20visit%202005/jj_test_KGO.html
[22:07:45] <Jymmm> http://www.flickr.com/photos/docsearls/3022109312/in/set-72157608870814351/
[22:08:06] <Jymmm> They are using the salt ponds as a ground plane
[22:09:32] <andypugh> Should use mercury ponds
[22:10:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: we DO have old mercury mines in this area
[22:10:27] <andypugh> No excuse then :-)
[22:10:39] <Jymmm> I can only think of one
[22:12:25] <danimal_garage> LOL one of the quick connect fittings i got from harbor freight bottomed out before the threads got tight
[22:12:38] <danimal_garage> cheap crap
[22:12:44] <danimal_garage> not suprised
[22:16:55] <ries> does EMC auto-load a gcode file (when the machine is off) when the file is changed by a other program?
[22:19:54] <skunkworks_> no
[22:21:25] <Jymmm> this is a story in the Ukranine... http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=vOhf3OvRXKg
[22:29:43] <ries> Jymmm: there was this guy that did already a couple of years ago.... it's still awsome...
[22:30:15] <Jymmm> Yeah, I saw his work before.
[22:31:41] <ries> Jymmm: I totally don't have artistic hands :( I have to do it from machines :D
[22:32:01] <Jymmm> same here... CTRL+Z is your friend
[22:35:29] <jt-plasma> yea my new 16mm push buttons came in
[22:37:08] <alex_joni> why not 0.629921" push buttons?
[22:37:45] <danimal_garage> because he's european
[22:38:34] <Jymmm> he is?
[22:42:02] <eric_unterhausen> the good pushbuttons have been metric for years, even here in the backwoods of the U.S.
[22:48:32] <danimal_garage> yea even my GE was alll metric, and that is 32 years old
[22:49:08] <Valen> thats because metric is the way to go
[22:50:06] <Jymmm> Valen: dont make me beat you with a YARD stick!
[22:50:18] <Valen> I had somebody try to explain how english units were easier
[22:50:26] <Valen> with fractions and all that junk
[22:50:53] <Jymmm> Valen: where are you? US? EU?
[22:51:03] <Valen> AU
[22:51:23] <Jymmm> Valen: Ok, when you build a house, what's it framed with?
[22:51:33] <archivist_emc> thou feel better :)
[22:52:18] <Valen> 50x75
[22:52:25] <jackc> hahahaha
[22:52:34] <Jymmm> Valen: Really? that's what they call them?
[22:52:37] <jackc> 2x4s are epic
[22:52:50] <Jymmm> Yeah Joe, gimme 10 50x75's?
[22:52:58] <Valen> I believe in some places they are
[22:53:07] <Jymmm> Valen: commonly?
[22:53:15] <Valen> not paticularly
[22:53:24] <Jymmm> ok, whats the common name?
[22:53:35] <Valen> major hardware stores have them labled that way but they are a 2x4 ;->
[22:53:59] <Jymmm> I wonder what they are commonly called in EU
[22:54:16] <Valen> I believe they are actually done in mm these days
[22:54:20] <danimal_garage> metric is communist
[22:54:34] <Valen> as in it is 25x100 or whatever but they are still called 2x4
[22:55:34] <andypugh> The units don't matter, it is having a rational system that makes life easy. The problem with Imperial is that it confuses mass with force, and from that point on it all falls apart.
[22:56:02] <andypugh> There was a rational imperial system using slugs for mass, but it didn't really catch on.
[22:56:30] <Jymmm> * Jymmm forces his mass upon andypugh!
[22:56:57] <andypugh> 1N will acellerate 1kg at 1 m/s/s 1lb will accellerate one slug at 1ft/s/s
[22:56:59] <alex_joni> Jymmm: at least over here 2x4's are not commonly used
[22:57:05] <alex_joni> we build brick houses
[22:57:20] <alex_joni> and for drywall there are aluminium profiles which are used for framing
[22:57:27] <Jymmm> alex_joni: That's just to keep the vampires out - DUH!
[22:57:28] <andypugh> We still like to pile rocks on top of each other.
[22:57:44] <Jymmm> alex_joni: aluminum? seriously?
[22:57:50] <alex_joni> seriously
[22:57:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni: why not steel studs?
[22:58:00] <andypugh> Not steel?
[22:58:24] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://www.timeconstruct.ro/rigips-profile-accesorii.html
[22:58:31] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[22:58:33] <alex_joni> sorry.. steel
[22:58:42] <alex_joni> but they are really light
[22:58:45] <Valen> I don't know anobody usin Al for framing
[22:58:54] <alex_joni> .5mm sheets
[22:58:55] <Jymmm> that would be expensive
[22:59:15] <alex_joni> bended into profiles
[22:59:31] <Valen> would be rust proof though ;->
[22:59:38] <Valen> and cheaper than stainless
[23:00:21] <Dallur1> yeah, but galvanized steel is even cheaper and easier to work with for framing inside drywalls, etc
[23:00:49] <Valen> new stuff here is built with that aerated concrete stuff
[23:00:50] <alex_joni> they are galvanized usually
[23:01:01] <Dallur1> most of the drywall stuff over here is done with U shaped galvanized steel frames
[23:01:36] <Dallur1> assembled with a special punch pliers, 5 sec to erect and punch
[23:02:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[23:02:24] <skunkworks_> night
[23:02:33] <Dallur1> night
[23:02:34] <alex_joni> hey samco
[23:02:41] <alex_joni> how's the puma coming along?
[23:02:48] <andypugh> Here too, aerated concrete inner skin, piles of rocks on the outside.
[23:03:03] <skunkworks_> heh
[23:03:11] <alex_joni> :P
[23:03:16] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: right now we are actually finally working on the k&t
[23:03:36] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/zaxis/
[23:03:58] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/
[23:04:32] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[23:04:51] <andypugh> We are used to the idea that a house will last 600 years. (My parent's house already has)
[23:05:42] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: sweet
[23:06:11] <andypugh> That K&T is lovely. What is it?
[23:06:40] <skunkworks_> Kearny and trecker milwaukee matic IIIb
[23:06:59] <skunkworks_> 60's vintage nc
[23:08:12] <andypugh> http://sections.asme.org/milwaukee/history/21-ncmachinelv.html ?
[23:08:14] <skunkworks_> andypugh: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[23:09:13] <andypugh> It looks quite sizable, and frighteningly expensive.
[23:09:19] <skunkworks_> andypugh: I think that was just a little bit older. Our control cabinate was just 1 section of cabinates.
[23:09:34] <skunkworks_> all descrete componants. (germanium transistors)
[23:11:01] <skunkworks_> andypugh: we ran with that controller until a few years ago. It smoked for the last time.
[23:11:20] <andypugh> You couldn't compile linux for it?
[23:11:44] <Valen> chick in that sand video is hot
[23:12:45] <Valen> probably not the point
[23:12:46] <skunkworks_> andypugh: I tried - but I couldn't get the rtai to build correctly ;)
[23:13:00] <andypugh> Yeah, I know the feeling.
[23:13:41] <skunkworks_> andypugh: The link you posted is a milwaukee matic II :)
[23:13:54] <andypugh> So, if you are just updating the controller, why strip the machine? All the internal parts look lovely.
[23:14:30] <skunkworks_> andypugh: it was run with hydraulic servos - plus z and x used the same servo.
[23:14:46] <skunkworks_> we are converting to full 3 axis.
[23:14:56] <skunkworks_> not 2.5 that it was.
[23:15:02] <Valen> how do x and z use the same servo?
[23:15:14] <skunkworks_> so we need to get in there to be able to do that.
[23:15:17] <andypugh> Hydraulic servos? I have never heard of them, but I can see that they would be effective.
[23:15:35] <skunkworks_> torquey!@
[23:15:50] <andypugh> Thinking about it, I have used a servohydraulic machine pretty much full time for a few years. I am losing my mind.
[23:16:13] <Valen> lol
[23:16:21] <skunkworks_> Valen: it was clutched so it would always do x motion first - then clutches would engage z and then it would move
[23:16:29] <Valen> what sort of accuracy would it get?
[23:16:44] <andypugh> That was a 200 ton hydraulic ram with position feedback, very fast valving and a PID controller.
[23:16:48] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[23:16:51] <skunkworks_> it was supposidly repositonable to .0005
[23:17:03] <skunkworks_> (we never had issues with it on that point)
[23:17:10] <skunkworks_> it has scales.
[23:17:33] <skunkworks_> .0005"
[23:17:55] <Valen> .127mm is pretty coarse
[23:18:22] <skunkworks_> heh - I think you did your math wrong..
[23:18:38] <Valen> i asked google
[23:18:42] <skunkworks_> .0127
[23:18:55] <Valen> .005 inches = 0.127 millimeters
[23:19:07] <archivist_emc> 0 missing :)
[23:19:13] <Valen> ahh
[23:19:14] <skunkworks_> uh huh - and I said .0005"
[23:19:35] <andypugh> The machine I used was just a ram and did 0.001mm. It was a fatigue-testing machine.
[23:19:36] <skunkworks_> it was the precision model.. you programmed it to .0001
[23:19:52] <skunkworks_> andypugh: cool
[23:20:29] <archivist_emc> andypugh, some diesel pumps were iirc
[23:20:29] <andypugh> Admittedly that precision was with a clip-gauge directl mounted on the specimen.
[23:21:09] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/rearcontrller.JPG
[23:21:27] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/frntcontroller.JPG
[23:21:28] <Valen> we are using .001mm scales
[23:21:54] <Valen> its sitting at around .005 - .01mm accuracy
[23:21:59] <Valen> when moving
[23:22:22] <skunkworks_> these are the servos http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/hyservo.JPG
[23:22:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/loopblock.JPG
[23:23:38] <andypugh> Seems a bit odd to use hydraulic motors and leadscrews when a simple hydraulic ram and Moog valve could have worked perfectly well with the same feedback devices.
[23:24:47] <skunkworks_> we measured 75ft-lbs at the leadscrew with the hydraulic servo. we will be running about 40 ft-lbs at the leadscrew continuous.
[23:25:05] <Valen> there would be interesting things to think about, with pulsation in the hydraulic pressure, expansion in the lines
[23:28:51] <andypugh> Which reminds me of another machine in the same lab as the one I used. It could create any arbitrary stress in a tubular specimen by pulling it, twisting it and applying differential internal and external pressures up to 20,000bar. All servo-controlled.
[23:29:27] <skunkworks_> we are going to have the encoders on the servos to start - then if JonE resolvers->encoder converter works with our scales - we will use them as position.
[23:29:58] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/accupins.JPG
[23:33:29] <andypugh> I wonder if an LVDT interface would work with them?
[23:34:17] <andypugh> I guess it is analogue sinusoidal quadrature?
[23:34:38] <skunkworks_> The way it looks is it is like a linear resolver.
[23:35:35] <skunkworks_> they inject a signal to the head and get out a sin/con signal.
[23:35:43] <skunkworks_> sin/cos
[23:36:10] <andypugh> So, use a comparator to make a quadrature channel for an encoder, and an LVDT demodulator to give you the extra places of resolution?
[23:36:44] <andypugh> Or use Jon's rsolver convertor, which probably does that and already works.
[23:36:50] <skunkworks_> heh - yes
[23:37:35] <andypugh> Really cludgematic, a specially shaped gear wheel on a rotary encoder meshing with the pins :-)
[23:37:42] <skunkworks_> he was kind enough to say that if we sent him a section of the scale and a read head - he would test it out.
[23:38:43] <Valen> oooh asty
[23:39:58] <Valen> nasty
[23:40:22] <andypugh> Nasty?
[23:40:42] <Valen> rotary encoders and wheels and such
[23:40:54] <Valen> compared to a glass grating slide ;->
[23:41:19] <andypugh> It was intentional. I am in an odd mood after a day trip to germany (up at 5am, home at 9pm)
[23:41:50] <andypugh> In fact, I have had quite enough of being awake for one day.
[23:42:03] <Valen> nighty night